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New York (Conversations 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And where is that boy gone that was in Hong Kong?

Trivikrama: He went to New York.

Prabhupāda: He is a Chinese man.

Trivikrama: He went also. Well, the president was Sevānanda, an American boy, his wife... It's a difficult part of the world, Prabhupāda. No one likes it.

Prabhupāda: Hong Kong.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, selling books is our propaganda. That is very good program.

Trivikrama: One thing... As far as being... We're shorthanded because I'm going to be coming back to India. I was thinking that because you instructed Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami to help me by sending two men... But actually he never really sent two men.

Prabhupāda: If there is no men, how can he do?

Trivikrama: But there's so many men now in New York. Now it's January. There's no more big book distribution, plus they're recruiting so many men.

Prabhupāda: So why they are not? It is simply lack of management. If there is no sufficient work, some men can go. Write. He is also GBC. Men should be equally distributed.

Devotees: Jaya. (offer obeisances) (end)

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You might have seen.

D. D. Desai: I think San Francisco or somewhere?

Girirāja: This is very recent, in New York.

Prabhupāda: People become mad, and the papers admitted, "Here is the place for East and West to meet." And the police were so satisfied, they said, "Next year we shall make very, very nice arrangement."

Guest (1): Unfortunately what has happened, that several movements have merged.

Prabhupāda: This is not one of the several movements.

Guest (1): No. These people have confusion in their mind. One of course is CIA, then then FBI, then this hippie, then this narcotic people and...

Prabhupāda: Hundreds there are. But what we have got to do with them?

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Maybe by March

Dr. Patel: More. Fifteen days, no?

Prabhupāda: No. More than that.

Dr. Patel: It will be very, very cold. It will be very, very... You have to live in a tent... After all, tent is not really... Especially in March, January, cold is extreme. It is as cold as New York but more than that.

Prabhupāda: I have got many invitations from friends. I can live in the home, house. That depends on my... Either in the tent or a mile, two miles away.

Dr. Patel: When you go out after leaving some friend's house, it will be very difficult to come out because of the cold. It will be as big as Bombay practically, this Kumbhamela, at least twenty-five lakhs or thirty lakhs. It will be as big as cold. (?)

Prabhupāda: No, space is also.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Chambur, I stayed there for a week. So almost on head, aeroplanes.

Dr. Patel: They come this way and they, on the head on Santa Cruz. Few of them are like that... (break) ...New York.

Prabhupāda: Kennedy airport? There are two, three airports. (break) ...forget spiritual body. Next time he is going to be dog. That he does not know.

Dr. Patel: (laughs) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, sir. Even dog has in his day. There is the dominance of God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't hate dog. We say that this life is meant for getting release from this repetition of birth and death. Otherwise punaḥ punaś carvita... Either you become a dog or a hog or a man or a god. The business is āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna... (break) (bell rings)

Prabhupāda: That one thing is that this sort of publicity and this, this dress, is very nice. Girls who have no husband, they should dress like this, not attractive dress. A dress sometimes attracts the opposite sex. And women are... By nature they dress very nicely. (laughs) That is everywhere—to attract. The nature is that they are dependent, woman by nature. Do you admit or not?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our headquarters.

Trivikrama: One week.

Guest (2): New York. This is from New York.

Guest (1): It's coming from New York, but it's the same for all over America.

Prabhupāda: All over the world.

Guest (2): "We offer our sincere congratulations. It is, of course, the hand of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Seventeen lakhs copies of our literature sold in one week.

Guest (1): What is the daily income here? They would be interested to know the daily income for their own selves, daily income for the book sales.

Prabhupāda: Oh, book sale? Five to six lakhs. Now, you can just imagine from the sales.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not very difficult. I don't find it very...

Prabhupāda: Not at all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I used to work in New York outside all the time, but I didn't find it so difficult.

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have started, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupāda: (sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbhamela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.

Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This we can bring a charge against them: "Prove that we wanted money."

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we are counter... We are fighting them. "...by writing to the District Attorney's"—those are the Justice Department Offices—"or contacting your local media." Then they give the addresses of people in New York and two addresses in Los Angeles who you should write to telling them about all the knowledge you have about all the abuses of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it says, "You should commence action for a legal deprogramming. If other families of Hare Kṛṣṇa victims would go to court to get a legal conservatorship or guardianship with an intended writ of habeas corpus..." Now, what this means is you go to the court, and you say "My dear judge, my son is in Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has been brainwashed." And you have a paper from a psychiatrist that says, "Yes, he is definitely acting in a robotlike way." Then the court will say, "All right, you're the parent. So we give you legal guardianship over the son."

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why not engage Brahmānanda in that business?

Rāmeśvara: I think he could do well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: In New York or L.A. Wherever you think...

Prabhupāda: Let him go to the colleges accompanied by some other.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking that especially right now, this time, is the prime time for preaching in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let as many sannyāsīs as possible. Sannyāsī, brahmacārī or gṛhastha, it doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: Cannot possibly cover all the territory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There's so much engagement in America right now.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, I think Brahmānanda should be engaged with some assistant or some superior. Two. He should not be alone. That is the best solution.

Rāmeśvara: No one's giving engagements in New York. Now I have two people in L.A. beginning, Jagannath Sūta.

Prabhupāda: Then this kīrtana... This is kīrtana, speaking. Whatever little fault is there, that will be rectified.

Rāmeśvara: He'll like it too. Coming into America to help fight the demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately do that. This is conclusion. Engage him in preaching, and this is the opportunity. You said that "We require so many." Similarly, Madhudviṣa can be engaged also in that way.

Rāmeśvara: Wow. I was thinking... I wrote him a letter. He was very happy to receive it. He posted it in the restaurant. I invited him to come to Los Angeles. I was encouraging him.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking him from the very beginning, that he come.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's right.

Rāmeśvara: Between now and Māyāpur it's very tight.

Prabhupāda: Very prestigious papers like Time, Reader's Digest. Reader's Digest is the highest circulation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in the world. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Sunday New York Times has a big section just on books, and that's the most respected in the world, their books section and their book reviews. That is very prestigious. All the leading people read it.

Prabhupāda: But wherever you advertise, it must be prominent. It must immediately come to the notice. You can spend little more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, this advertising will also increase our college orders, because even college professors and librarians read papers. So when our salesmen go there, they'll say, "Oh, I saw your advertisement in the papers."

Prabhupāda: On nice pages(?) you just give your... Another proposal was that, some New York or somewhere somebody is proposing to sell individually. Who was that?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also it's becoming hard to enter these houses in America. In fact, door to door salesmen are having a difficult time now. Because of security reasons, they don't let any outside peddlars into the building.

Prabhupāda: That is always, trespass. Their trespass law is very strict in USA. There are dogs, and there are revolver, and trespasser, if he is killed, there is no offense. Is it not? It is very dangerous. I know one incident in New York. Some yogi came. So he was... You know that? So I became very irritated. So I asked him, "Get him out immediately." So my men got him out. He went to the police and he said that he was assaulted and so on, complained. The police came and inquired. So there were so many inquiries. But I did not know... Then I said that "He came to me without invitation." "Oh!" Immediately he dismissed. "I did not ask him to come. He came to me and disturbed me." So immediately, "Oh..." He decided. He said, "Oh..." So that law is very strict. And that is very good. Nobody can come without invitation or engagement. Otherwise they trespass. Is it?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I may go there some time. From London to Los Angeles there is direct plane. Takes about ten hours, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Ten hours at least. Los Angeles to New York is five and a half, and New York to London another five hours, six hours.

Prabhupāda: Or in this way, about twelve hours, via...

Rāmeśvara: Too long a flight, I think. It would be better... It's too long a flight.

Prabhupāda: That directly from London to... That is the same?

Rāmeśvara: Too long.

Prabhupāda: Too long.

Rāmeśvara: Usually stopover in New York.

Prabhupāda: No, another northern flight from Paris and from London it goes directly to Los Angeles.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read that even the New York Daily News took a poll to find out. They were asking every person what they think about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Usually they only take polls for very important issues.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but it was terrible. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The poll?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And Dialectic Spiritualism is published?

Rāmeśvara: This year, after the Māyāpur Festival. Hayagrīva hasn't finished working on it completely.

Prabhupāda: How many pages it will be?

Rāmeśvara: Two volumes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.

Prabhupāda: Where is leisure time? You rise early in the morning and start for your office. Where is your leisure time? All imagination. I have seen in New York. They are coming from the other parts, starting early in the morning, two hours in the ferry and two hours in the cars, and standing two hours. What is this? Leaders, rich men, can think like that, that "I have leisure," but a worker, lower class, they have no freedom. That is illusion, and we are trying to give freedom to everyone. That is freedom. You are forced to go to the factory and work there in a hellish condition of life. Is that freedom?

Rāmeśvara: There must be still education so the people will... Say we are one day...

Prabhupāda: No education, no. Education will be required only for the guiding class: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, not for anyone, śūdras. They are two only. Others will... What education required? Suppose if you produce... If you..., you are accustomed to agriculture, cow protection, there is no need going to college and schools. If you remain illiterate, still you can do.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: (break) Because there are many fanatics. Hm?

Hari-śauri: Through America it's full of persecutors.(?) These people are very, very hateful towards our men. Europe is all right. Europe...

Prabhupāda: Europe? Germany...

Hari-śauri: Germany is bad.(?)

Jagadīśa: North America would be... South America?

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, if you did come to America, the best idea is if you went to a farm like the New York farm and just made that your headquarters. And the devotees could visit. They could come and see you. Otherwise, the country in Pennsylvania is very beautiful in the spring and the summer, very peaceful.

Hari-śauri: New Vrindaban you could go when the palace is done.

(long conversation at end of tape about deprogramming and psychology—Rāmeśvara talks most of the time—can be transcribed if the tape is slowed down and the train noise is reduced.) (end)

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa... Svakarmana: "All right, be engaged in your occupational duty."

Rāmeśvara: Just give something. Actually, if some gṛhasthas would do some business, it would take a little pressure off the brahmacārīs, and they can pass out more books. Now because the overhead is high in certain temples like New York, very high overhead, LA, very high, so we are collecting so much money. We could be giving out more books if we had extra money from the gṛhastha's business.

Prabhupāda: They are willing to work?

Rāmeśvara: I think if we encourage them...

Prabhupāda: Then why not?

Rāmeśvara: ...we can start some businesses. Just like Spiritual Sky was started. It is giving every month to Los Angeles five thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: So you can do business. Why don't you start this toothpaste? It is very effective. I am using personally. Toothpaste is a very common thing. If you introduce, it is used by cent percent persons. Simply they should like it.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...French, German, Dutch, Swedish, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Chinese. (Bengali) We want. (Bengali) Person to person... (Bengali) Huge organization. (Bengali) ...Bhaktivedanta Book Trust... (Bengali)... stock, distribution, salesmen control. (Bengali) ...Delhi paper... (Bengali) We have got substance. (Bengali) So it is very encouraging, this report. What else?

Rāmeśvara: Now the next two reports. First of all, for the month of December there's the ratings for the whole Society. So in the top ten, number one was New York, Rādhā-Dāmodara, with $170,000. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Give him some book to read.

Gargamuni: Where's the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (Indian man): I should have some basic knowledge about.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Bhagavad-gītā gives basic knowledge.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So the next thing is the entire year, the ratings for the whole year. So number one for zones is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa-$1,000,000 for the whole year. Number two was the area that I have: Los Angeles, Denver and San Diego-$762,000. Number three is Balavanta-$476,000. And number four was the other half of the West Coast-$464,000. You can see that if you put the West Coast as one it would have been $1,200,000 to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's $1,000,000. But anyway, it's been divided, so he has won. So he's also... New York temple is number one among temples, and his zone is number one among zones. So he has set the whole standard for the whole movement in book distribution.

Prabhupāda: All brahmacārī and sannyāsī.

Rāmeśvara: My zone is all gṛhasthas (laughs) with a few brahmacārīs. Anyway, next year we can beat Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. (Prabhupāda chuckles) He has only beaten us by a few hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: But don't tell him now.

Rāmeśvara: Or it may be ruined.

Prabhupāda: He may be very careful.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There are many gentlemen who take insulin twice, at least once.

Rāmeśvara: The diabetics. They have diabetes. Very common. We have a devotee who does that. This boy in New York whose parents have kidnapped him many times. He is actually... That's their charge against us, that "Oh, my son is diabetic, and you are not spending $25,000 on doctors. You are not taking care of him." That is their charge against us. Then Ādi-keśava Mahārāja said, "All right, if you want him to have such excellent medical treatment, you give us the money and we'll spend it on it." So then the parents say, "Just see! Blackmail." That is a big charge in the paper. It's called extortion. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja was indicted for kidnapping and for extortion.

Hari-śauri: He's that Ed Shapiro.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. The parents cheated again. They said, "Just see, blackmail."

Hari-śauri: That's how that charge came up.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They lie and say, "This president, he said, 'If you do not give us this money, we will let your son die.' "

Prabhupāda: In a different way.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they say Transcendental Meditation is going...

Hari-śauri: Six million.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's big because you don't have to give up anything. I met some of my old friends in New York, and I debated with them. And their philosophy is that this Transcendental Meditation is based on natural process of God consciousness, and our effort is all artificial. We are giving up meat, giving up sex—this is artificial. Their philosophy is that "If you continue meditating, one day automatically you'll give up these things. So why do it prematurely?"

Prabhupāda: No, but if one day you have to give it up, why not prematurely?

Rāmeśvara: Give it up when you are... By the Transcendental Meditation, twenty minutes a day, automatically you are purifying yourself naturally. Therefore that is more perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, if I can purify immediately, what is the wrong?

Rāmeśvara: He said it creates stress. By doing it artificially you create too much stress.

Prabhupāda: "No, we don't feel any... We do not feel any stress. You feel because you are unable to do it. But we don't feel it. We have given up... Since our spiritual master has said, we have given up, immediately. But you cannot do it," say.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes, in Canada.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Seeing my books. That Consulate General in Montreal, he, when he read my The Teachings of Lord Caitanya, he immediately became attracted.

Gargamuni: You spent only twenty-five dollars, and we spent so much on lawyers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Twenty-five or thirty-five dollars.

Gargamuni: We were hiring lawyers in New York.

Prabhupāda: The lawyer was taking monthly at least three hundred dollars and postponing. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Naturally. So he can continue getting money.

Prabhupāda: He would phone Rayarāma, "Will you kindly send me $150 today." And he has to send. And he was simply postponing date. That's all.

Gargamuni: He would call on the phone.

Rāmeśvara: I heard that you once said, "Lawyer means liar."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...

Prabhupāda: They come to us.

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That you arrange with the secretary. So Brahmānanda's going to America. For the time being he should go.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes, he said he will go for some time. He just told me. (break) You are famous for starting from nothing. (Prabhupāda laughs) In New York there was nothing, and you started.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nothing.

Gargamuni: In Māyāpur there was nothing. Here there is nothing and it is started.

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana there was nothing.

Gargamuni: All over the world you are famous for that.

Hari-śauri: In Bombay there was nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay. (laughs)

Gurukṛpa: Bombay was worse than nothing. (laughter) It'd been better if there was nothing in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, you are rich man's sons, Americans. We are poor Indians. My father was not a rich man, but your father, all are rich man's father, rich man.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpa: In Calcutta. They are now in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Hari-śauri: They're in Calcutta now?

Gurukṛpa: They've been in Calcutta.

Hari-śauri: Somebody told me that They were the small Deities in New York.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: The brass ones.

Prabhupāda: That is different. That was...

Gurukṛpa: They're in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: In my Los Angeles room there is Deity room?

Hari-śauri: Gaura-Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: No. There is siṁhāsana, now there is a picture, London Deity. Formerly the small Deity was there.

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: You had three attacks on the ship.

Prabhupāda: Two.

Hari-śauri: Oh. And then one when you go to...

Prabhupāda: New York. Third one, paralyzed.

Hari-śauri: Very bad one.

Prabhupāda: Left side paralyzed. I do not how it is saved.

Hari-śauri: By Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: And one has... One girl, that captain's wife, she studied astrology. She said, "Swamiji, if you can survive your seventieth year, then you'll live for one hundred years." So some way or other I survived my seventieth year. And I do not know whether I shall live for hundred years. But the seventieth year was severe, three heart attacks and paralysis.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It was heart attack. Otherwise I could not understand. So I passed through third heart attacks. One, two, three. They say that anyone who gets heart attack, the third attack, he must expire. Heart attack.

Hari-śauri: You had three attacks on the ship.

Prabhupāda: Two.

Hari-śauri: Oh. And then one when you got to...

Prabhupāda: New York. Third one paralyzed.

Hari-śauri: Very bad one.

Prabhupāda: Left side paralyzed. I do not know how we were saved.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: And one girl, that captain's wife, she studied astrology. She said, "Swami, if you can survive your seventieth year, then you'll live for one hundred years." (Hari-śauri laughs) So, somehow or other, I survived my seventieth year. I do not whether I shall live for hundred years, but seventieth year was severe-three heart attacks and paralysis.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: On the ship twice? Oh.

Prabhupāda: Consecutively two days, attack. Actually I would have died on the ship before reaching your country. I could not understand that was heart attack. The pain was so severe, I thought, "I am now dying." And it was done two nights. And I was very much afraid whether on the third night, that "If this night also again some pain like that comes, then I'll die." But third night did not pain. It was suspended. It came in New York. And you know it, left side was paralyzed.

Gargamuni: Yes. Left side. We had to massage constantly.

Prabhupāda: No, they were arranging for some operation.

Gargamuni: Yes. Those doctors.

Prabhupāda: I told Kīrtanānanda, "Give me massage."

Gargamuni: I can remember. I wheeled you down for test.

Prabhupāda: The heart was also very painful still.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: We did that Śrīla Prabhupāda, just recently.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Gurukṛpā: They must take a lawyer, but they don't let you in court.

Prabhupāda: No, lawyer can say. Lawyer will say. We pay them: "Say this."

Hari-śauri: I think the New York part of the testimony is going to be... They're going to read the Bhagavad-gītā from cover to cover, everything. That's included in our defense.

Prabhupāda: One book, and we have got eighty-four books. Come on. At least our books will be advertised.

Hari-śauri: Just like that demon on that radio show, after all his spouting out nonsense, at the end he said, "Well, I suppose we'll just have to read the books and find out." Their trick is to try to distract the attention from the books. Because they know the books are very perfect, so they try to say that that's not the issue, what's in the books. The issue is that we're not following what's in the books.

Prabhupāda: But say we are not following. So prove it.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: We should introduce the books as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them to emphasize it even more.

Prabhupāda: Bring all these books in the court. Sometimes in Calcutta, high-court judge was a big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than one thousand rupees per day, say sixty, seventy years ago. That one thousand means thirty times nowadays. Thirty thousand a day. He was very big lawyer. He was offered a judgeship in the... "No, no, no. I don't call for it." He was earning. The judges were getting at that time four thousand per month, and he was earning one thousand daily. So why should he give...? (coughs) So all the judges were friends. So in one case he brought so many books for argument. So the judges were friends, so he very mildly criticized, "Oh, Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) This was the... He addressed, "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law. No, no, you do not know what is law. I'll teach you today good lesson." He criticized him, "Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." This is a famous argument. So they cannot deny that "Why you have brought so many books to bother me?" No. "You have to hear. It may take twelve years to hear, but you have to hear. This is law."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Take this. Immediately write. Then it will be our preaching. In the court the books will be read, and we shall put our argument to support it. Let all the scientists, philosopher, come there. Make like that. So we have to go there now? No. Not yet.

Hari-śauri: In a few minutes.

Satsvarūpa: I'll write to New York and tell them the strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Why not? You just consider, yourself. You are three GBCs. And give your opinion. This is my suggestion. The same suggestion as Dr. Rajaveri(?) Ghosh said, "Yes, my lord, I have brought the whole library to teach you law."

Gargamuni: And they can't take any decision against the books, because the scholars have already...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scholars have supported. This is a fact.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't think it's very big.

Pradyumna: Not very big. Because they have baby crocodiles at home. In the United States it used to be the fashion to get a baby crocodile and keep him in a tub. Then he would get too big so they would flush it down the toilet, and then in the sewers in New York many crocodiles.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're all living in the sewers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Pradyumna: If one goes in the sewers it's very dangerous, because crocodiles have grown up and they are in the sewers. So they get them small size and they keep them at home.

Prabhupāda: And when it is bigger it is thrown into commode?

Pradyumna: Thrown in the commode. And it goes to the sewer. And in the sewer in New York are big underground, big, big tunnels, and in there big, big crocodiles. The men who work in the sewers..., very dangerous for them because there're all big things there, crocodiles, snake, big cats.

Prabhupāda: Big cats?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Big cats?

Pradyumna: And big rats.

Prabhupāda: So the crocodile, they do not eat the rats?

Pradyumna: There are all kinds of many living entities there in the sewers of New York. In all sewers in big Western cities. There's once... There's a very famous French novel, and it describes how a prisoner was escaping from troops, so he went in the sewer. And in the sewer there was all kinds of so many things. Once an article about New York sewers...

Prabhupāda: They can live in that nasty water?

Hari-śauri: It's warm. The reason why they're down there is because the sewers are always very warm. So it's very conducive for the alligators. So they grow very big.

Prabhupāda: And what they eat?

Hari-śauri: Rodents. Rats and different things.

Pradyumna: London sewers also.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atlanta also, they have difficulty. Balavanta told me just before I left that...

Prabhupāda: June.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We lost an airport in court, book distribution. That was just before I left. So people are trying to be very critical, especially in these different circles, with the New York problem and all these symptoms, becoming very critical.

Prabhupāda: Critical means they are taking this movement now seriously.

Gargamuni: Yes. It is coming up because their sons and daughters are joining.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Critical means our triumph.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They know we have some substance now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) My mercy or your mercy. You are all working. So anyway, this counter propaganda is doing good to us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's making... Everyone in America now knows the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Very prominent in America.

Prabhupāda: And New York temple is going nice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think very nicely, yes.

Prabhupāda: People are coming regular?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes. We get on Sundays not less than six or seven hundred people come every Sunday. And...

Prabhupāda: Indians and Americans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. About, say, half and half.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good turn out.

Prabhupāda: That's good. Similarly Los Angeles, and other...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I was reading. It is done nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they'll study carefully. These people here will study it very carefully.

Brahmānanda: In New York I met one man who knew you from many years ago. He also saw you, I think, Mr. Chakravarti. He was associated with Gauḍīya Maṭha as a young boy, and he said you would come to... There's one Puruṣottama Mahārāja, or Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja? Where he was?

Brahmānanda: He was in New York. He was coming to our temple regularly.

Prabhupāda: Now what he is?

Brahmānanda: He's studying some...

Prabhupāda: Inference...?

Brahmānanda: ...conservation. He studied in London. He met you... You had invited him to come and stay in the temple. Sometimes he comes and stays overnight.

Prabhupāda: I don't remember. He stays in New York? Oh, yes, yes. I remember. Hm.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: She gave shelter, he gave?

Brahmānanda: He gave shelter, Yes. Mother Śīlavatī and this girl, they stayed with him. He very much admired mother Śīlavatī's austerity, how she was just taking a little milk, little vegetable and nothing else but always engaged. He was impressed.

Prabhupāda: Śīlavatī is in New York?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Where are her sons?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are in māyā. (Prabhupāda chuckles) She now engages in book distribution also.

Prabhupāda: No, she is very nice woman. From the beginning she is devotee. She is about fifty years old? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, at least fifty years old. Yes, her hair is gray.

Brahmānanda: She wears all white sari. Other women that age, they would be looking for another husband, another husband, another husband.

Prabhupāda: This widow life is also brahmacārī life. This printing is all right? At least for India it is very good.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They must hear kīrtana.

Bhavānanda: Always.

Prabhupāda: That must be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In New York, because we have the restaurant there, we always have prasāda ready and available for guests throughout the day and evening, full prasādam, because the restaurant facility is there.

Prabhupāda: That is a good facility.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And very respectable gentlemen are coming. You saw, Brahmānanda.

Prabhupāda: Who will not accept such nice prasāda? They cannot get in ordinary restaurant such nice prasāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we give them as much as they can eat. There is no limitation on quantity.

Prabhupāda: They are very glad.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Yes. They say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Many people are understanding now how we are defeating the enemy with prasāda. People become addicted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some devotees, I've noticed... Sometimes some weak devotees, they leave our movement but still, in New York, even after leaving, they have to come every evening for their regular meals in the restaurant, because they are addicted to prasādam. They cannot do without it.

Prabhupāda: What do we supply in the restaurant?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Restaurant supplies two or three sabjis...

Prabhupāda: Two, three.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least. Then puris, cāpāṭi, then samosā or pakorā, kacuri...

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Sweet rice also?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sweet rice every day. Sweet rice, halavā.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It is all royal dishes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All first class. You have got so many items here? (laughs)

Bhavānanda: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But here it's prepared better. Here the cooking is more expert. They are not as... We are thinking that one of the cooks from New York... I'm going to suggest to Karttikeya Mahadeviya... Or now actually I think I'll just have her come here. But I wanted one of the cooks from New York to come to India for one or two months to learn how to cook properly, so that...

Prabhupāda: They can come here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Here will be best.

Prabhupāda: Here there are so many nice...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because one thing we don't get many people is the Indian people to eat in the restaurant, because they are accustomed to more spices.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So from restaurant you have got good income there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Approximately, I would say, between $7,500 and $10,000 a month. That is not all profit, but that is the gross income. Profit? At least more than half profit. And much milk products are used. We supply the temple and the restaurant from the farm four hundred gallons of milk per week.

Prabhupāda: You get from the farm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Every week we give to New York temple four hundred gallons milk.

Prabhupāda: And you turn into chānā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā and also milk, straight as milk. The devotees get sufficient milk, and also cheese for cooking.

Prabhupāda: Sandeśa, rasagullā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. All of the sweets are made very... New York... In America New York is known for its good milk sweets. Brahmānanda was...

Prabhupāda: New Vrindaban also.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON farm report: Port Royal, Pennsylvania, report for year 1976. ISKCON Incorporated of New York owns a prime farm in Juanita County of Pennsylvania. The land is nearly four hundred acres in size, valued at around five hundred dollars per acre, or two hundred thousand dollars. In addition the buildings on the property consist of the following: barn worth $40,000; outbuildings worth $10,000; calf barn $25,000; equipment $50,000; residential building $45,000; guesthouse and public kitchen and prasāda pavilion $75,000; and silos $20,000. Total, including land, $465,000. The purpose of this land is to produce foodstuffs to meet all the needs of the farm community as well as the needs of our temples in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Baltimore. Another purpose is to demonstrate the principle of cow protection, as we are strict vegetarians and do not believe in slaughtering cows. Our herd of cows is Brown Swiss, and they are rated amongst the top one percent of dairy cow herds in the United States. All of the cows are pedigreed. Our farm holds fifty milk cows and fifty young cows, heifers. The milk cows milk an average of 40 kilos of milk per day in their first month of lactation and average 25 kilos per day over the whole year. We have 140 acres of crop land and 30 acres of pasture, the balance being woods, primarily hardwood, which is excellent for fuel. On our land we grow not only all the food for the residents but also for the cows. The following is the yield for 1976: corn-200 tons, soybeans-10 tons, barley-10 tons, oats-10 tons..."

Prabhupāda: What do you do with the soybeans?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The soybeans are ground and given to the cows.

Brahmānanda: In the winter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the wintertime. This way...

Prabhupāda: They're very nutritious.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Those fruits are nice fruits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Lastly we are fortunate to have two natural pure water mountain springs running continuously all year. The water is being bottled and then distributed." And we take that water to New York.

Prabhupāda: Very digestive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. And water sells now for a dollar a gallon now in New York. A good market.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "So we at ISKCON farm look forward to an even more bountiful harvest in the year 1977. This is subscribed and sworn before me by a notary public." So it is official report.

Prabhupāda: Very good report. It is worth seeing, worth considering our... If we develop our farms in India on this basis, it will be very nice. We have got greater land. You have got 450 acres; we have got 600. No? Now it requires development.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know. In England they like Indian doctors. And last time, when I was in London, the Civil Surgeon, he was a Bengali. This Aurobindo's father, he was a medical practitioner. Aurobindo was born in London. He was English-born, yes. His father, Dr. Monmohan Ghosh, he was medical man there. So although he was British-born, he became enemy of the British. (drinks medicine?) Very bad medicine. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means good. I know when I was going to get that operation I didn't want to go to America. I would rather have gotten it here, even though the machines may not have been so modern, the fact that the Indian doctors were here was more reassurance than the Americans. They are very...

Prabhupāda: Careless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, one girl now... There's a devotee named Madhusūdana. You may remember one of your disciples. His name is Madhusūdana. Anyway, his cousin has joined us in New York. So this boy, he's married to a girl who was the chief nurse for the biggest neurosurgeon in America, who operated on Kennedy, a very big man. So she told us something about the medical profession, some examples. She said the American doctors are extremely cruel.

Prabhupāda: Cruel they must be. They're eating meat, rākṣasas.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then again operated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, another operation. Then another thing they were describing that there was a patient who was dying. There was no chance of his recovery, but still, in order to get... The man was a big man. So the television was covering because he was an important political figure. So the doctor performed a big brain operation, even though there was no purpose whatsoever, so that he could get advertised on the television as a very important doctor. And at one point he said, "Now bring in the television," and he cut the man's head and did a whole operation for no purpose at all. The person died anyway. But he was given advertisement that he was the most important surgeon. And they talk amongst themselves. She knew all this.

Prabhupāda: They were arranging my brain operation.

Brahmānanda: In New York. They threatened us that it must be done, that you must stay in the hospital. The refused that you should leave the hospital, and they wanted to take all these tests, spine..., put needles in the spine.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whole night also. Only evening, when you require it... (laughter) India's material advancement is artificial. They are not fit for it. In America, so long, no electricity every day? People would become mad. There would have been a revolution. Huh? Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes. They had a blackout in New York once for an hour or so.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that. I was that time.

Hari-śauri: Oh, you were there.

Prabhupāda: Not hour. It was four hours. And fortunately I was not out on the street. I was in my place. That accident took place just after few days of my arrival, 1965. One gentleman, he, I know, he brought me some candle. I had no candle even. Simply I was sitting in darkness. What can be done? But Kṛṣṇa sent him with some candle. Yes. (chuckling)

Hari-śauri: Nine months after that incident they had a record number of births...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...in New York.

Prabhupāda: What can they do in darkness? (laughter) That is the only engagement in darkness.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: When we were in New York this last summer you said that the spiritual master also has associates who appear along with him to help him in his mission.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa wants His assistants; the spiritual master also requires assistant. Everything is going on under Kṛṣṇa's direct supervision. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
(BG 18.61)

So Bombay work is going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Full-scale work.

Prabhupāda: People come to see even what is going on now.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is not a good business.

Prabhupāda: They are... They have come because they have no books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One very good business that we are developing in New York is prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a respectable business for the Americans.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Restaurant and prasādam carts, and we're getting good profit from it.

Prabhupāda: We can do everywhere the same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here we're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, here also, in India. That is very good, honest.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is from divorced family. Jayapatākā's mother, my parents, Brahmānanda's parents. Brahmānanda's mother called him. We think that they were trying to deprogram Brahmānanda, because the second day that Brahmānanda arrived in New York, suddenly his mother called. How could she have gotten news that he was coming to New York? We never told her. But as soon as he arrived in New York she called him. So we ascertained they are listening to all of our telephone conversations. And they know. They are writing. The deprogrammers are writing to all of the devotees' parents in the movement, and they are going and talking to the parents, saying, "Do you know what your son..." or "Do you know what your daughter is doing? Are you aware that your daughter has lost all of her free choice? That they're being brainwashed now by this cult? That they are giving her... They have spoiled her whole life?" In this way they try to pollute the minds of the parents who are innocent.

Hari-śauri: They're doing that everywhere, too. In Australia they're doing the same thing there, too.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they know all of the devotees' parents' names. Because the few devotees who do become deprogrammed, they give them all the names they know. And they have some informers within our temple also. All of our parents have told us that the deprogrammers contacted them.

Prabhupāda: They're organized.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All churches are closed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just see. They call a meeting of five hundred rabbis, all of the leading rabbis, and the Jewish leaders in the whole USA, just to deal with this question of "The cults taking our children."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Us? Au...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're the main cult.

Prabhupāda: Then? This is a verse. They do not know what is the aim of life.

Hari-śauri: "Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them." All liars and cheats.

Prabhupāda: This is demon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're filthy. That's for sure. They are filthy. They have no idea of... In New York you can see that. They smell nasty. They keep on their shoes. You have to tell them to take... They never wash after eating. Even animals wash. At least they try to keep clean.

Prabhupāda: Read.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, he is also coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not coming. We have to leave at least one of the sannyāsīs there to watch everything. Especially now if Sudāmā Mahārāja comes with the theater, then... I just told... I spoke to Sudāmā on the phone just now. So I told him that "The condition on which you can come is that Dhṛṣṭadyumna has to agree to stay in New York for the two weeks, because it's too much responsibility to be left alone without anybody in charge."

Prabhupāda: Our temple is always crowded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In New York? Oh, all the time. Especially on weekends, it's very crowded. Because of the restaurant and all the different programs that are going on there, there's always people coming in. We have many different activities.

Prabhupāda: The neighborhood men, they don't like it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of them mind it. There's no objection from the neighbors. It's such a big building, the biggest building on the whole block.

Hari-śauri: There's so many things happening in New York.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In New York you don't get any kind of... It's called a "melting pot." No one minds. Hare Kṛṣṇa is accepted there. First place that you...

Prabhupāda: I remember. We have started from New York.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're starting, because the building that we're putting up is a guesthouse. It is very nice facility for Indians to stay there. And during the summer, especially, what they're thinking to do is for two weeks they'll have a program for the Indians to send their children there for school and activities. And the two weeks will end on Janmāṣṭamī. So all the parents of the Indian children can come and spend the weekend at the farm at this guesthouse. Gradually it can develop. Very big population of Indians in New Jersey and Pennsylvania and New York, and they're all within easy reach of this farm, three hours, two hours by car.

Prabhupāda: They have no temple, the Indians?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they are looking to our society to provide them some spiritual place of worship. They're actually looking to us as priests.

Prabhupāda: American brāhmaṇas. Go-brāhmaṇa. American milk, American brāhmaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has organized the life membership program to send the Indian members milk sweets in the mail every week from the farm. Burfi, sandeśa.

Prabhupāda: They also like. And in America, the Indians are there, they are all educated. They're not low-class men.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: ...about the handling of this case in New York. We've been talking a lot about the general issues, but there's some specific points. Some are very practical, have come up. For instance......

Prabhupāda: If you feel alone, you take some other with you whom you like.

Ādi-keśava: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: If you are feeling alone, you must take somebody else, one or two, with you.

Ādi-keśava: I always have Tripurāri Swami with me.

Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī is... That's all right.

Ādi-keśava: We're together a lot. But one thing is, when we are fighting this case, there's a lot of legal expense, because although we are fighting the atheists in the courtroom, the lawyers who are working for us, they are also atheists, but they are the best materially. Our one lawyer, for instance, in New York, he is considered one of the best lawyers in the country. But he is charging us so much money, and although we do as much work as we can ourselves...

Prabhupāda: Why we appoint lawyer?

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Why we appoint lawyer?

Ādi-keśava: Well, in the court there are certain things that only the lawyer may argue. We're not allowed to argue ourselves. Now, one thing is that Hari-śauri has just told me that Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja has one man on his party who was a lawyer, a member of the bar in Australia. So I'm thinking to ask Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja if he can come with us to New York and get admitted to the bar in New York and become our attorney.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It will be very nice.

Ādi-keśava: Because otherwise it is costing so much money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately.

Ādi-keśava: One other thing that is sometimes arising is that when we are arguing the case in the court...

Prabhupāda: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: I'm hoping that if we can organize some legal office for the society, then we will be able to do this more effectively.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Ādi-keśava: This is that book we made for the conference, the ACLU conference in New York.

Prabhupāda: Who he is?

Ādi-keśava: He is one of the guṇḍās.

Hari-śauri: In England, this one.

Ādi-keśava: No, he's in...

Hari-śauri: No, in Ipswich.

Ādi-keśava: Ipswich, Massachusetts.

Hari-śauri: Oh, sorry. I thought...

Ādi-keśava: He is in... This is one of the men who was used to hold a devotee during a deprogramming, a big... I know this man personally. You see, already we have sometimes come to blows with them. We had one incident where a devotee was being held captive, and I went with some devotees in the middle of the night, and we had some fighting. The police stopped us. They took me away and beat me and threw me in the bushes, and then they kept the boy there, the devotee. He got away later. But men like this we have fought with several times. When it comes to these questions, I wanted to know, when there is sometimes some violence...

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Violence. Beat him.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Give me.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration. Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: No one's ever talked to them like that.

Prabhupāda: But this is a fact. The old man, seventy-five years old, he's going to lick up another vagina in the club. This is your Western civilization.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes in New York... You know we live right next to Broadway. The temple is right next to Broadway. Sometimes in New York we see old, old men...

Prabhupāda: And in France it is very... In France you have got.

Pṛthu-putra: In France, yes. All the prostitution going on around the temple.

Ādi-keśava: You see even old, old men going to these clubs.

Hari-śauri: If you can still have sex when you're seventy-five, then you're a great man. Glorified.

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their civilization. In Paris there are so many clubs. The old men, they first of all pay fifty dollars to enter into the club. Then he selects which vagina he will lick up. Then another payment. I know that. (aside:) No, he can be asked to sit down there.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Ādi-keśava: I don't know.

Satsvarūpa: Shall I call him?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Ādi-keśava: I was wondering, I've been... While in New York I've been worshiping the Deities, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but now, because of this case, I'm forced to travel more between some of the temples and because of the legal work. So I was thinking to take some Deities with me to worship wherever I go.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sannyāsī is not required.

Ādi-keśava: All right.

Bhakti-caru(?): Are there any mūrti, having?

Prabhupāda: No. A sannyāsī's not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was traveling, He was not carrying any Deity. Deity worship is specially recommended for the gṛhasthas. That is compulsory.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In 1965 I went there, and this is now recognized after ten years ago. Ten or twelve years, eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Loitering in the street. Nobody cared for me. Alone carrying the books. Now organize Bombay as our headquarter, New York as sub-office. Or headquarter in America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about Los Angeles?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. I told you that it must have been published.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You can see that the Bombay newspaper is better than these Calcutta papers.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the Calcutta paper has not yet carried it. It may be that Times of India has a relationship with some New York Times.

Prabhupāda: It is as good as The Statesman.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important. This man is senior man too in the courts, very old, conservative.

Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he's God-believing. This statement that he makes at the end, this statement that "Any attempt, be it circuitous, direct, well-intentioned or not, presents a clear and present danger to this most fundamental basis and eternally needed right of our citizens." "Eternally needed right." Freedom of religion.

Prabhupāda: So we should send him a letter of congratulations. "May God bless you for such right judgment. Be... Live long life to serve God." Like that, make a nice... That is our mission.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very honest and sincere people normally appreciate our movement. Only those who are envious...

Prabhupāda: Envious we don't care for. We don't mind. Never care for them. I didn't care anyone, any times, even my Godbrothers. Neither I care just now. I'll go on with my... Why? We are doing our duty. That's all. Under higher authoritative order. Have no fear. It is not personal gratification. So arrange for Manipur. We shall go. Let us go.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. So this will finish. This will not stay. It is already being finished by this Communist country. Only hope is this, if they want to be saved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people are beginning to realize the important part that this movement is going to play. A number of our enemies in New York said that this movement is the greatest threat to modern civilization.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of our enemies in that brainwash case, they are starting to say, "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the greatest threat to our modern civilization."

Prabhupāda: They?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, they said it. In the newspaper it was reported.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say, "It is spreading like epidemic." What is that?

Devotee: Little more? (sound of eating)

Prabhupāda: What is that civilization? Do they think that civilization is correct?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that they are the most advanced civilization ever. This is the topmost yet. Man is becoming more and more evolved, from the ape until now. This is the pinnacle so far.

Prabhupāda: And what you have gained? Criminals, fire brigade, always "dungdungdungdungdungdung," in every big city. And criminality increasing. Do you think it is civilization? Always anxious, and covering yourself by drinking, intoxicated. In New York street you would go out ordinary-hell! Two sides hell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it has become worse in the last ten years. It is much worse.

Prabhupāda: It must become worse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not safe now for anyone to walk on the street at night.

Prabhupāda: Night or daylight, it is not.

Devotee: So many robbers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, worse than robbers. I was in Central Park when I was a young boy, only five years old... (door opens)

Prabhupāda: Who is come? Let him out.(?)

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can get. There are many old houses. I do not remember what is that neighborhood. That is forlorn practically.

Jayatīrtha: Hm. There are many places like that. So we have to find a place like that, about three quarters of an acre, half an acre to three quarters of an acre, and build a building, taller building, with the temple and auditorium and museum and hotel rooms.

Prabhupāda: Like New York. Like New York?

Jayatīrtha: Not quite as big as New York. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That house is very good, our New York temple.

Jayatīrtha: We need about half that size, but bigger, nicer temple and meeting hall. We can rent out for weddings. People are paying five hundred pounds a day for renting just one room, a big room, and they can't get sufficient rooms in London. So they told us that they could book for two years in advance at five hundred pounds a day every weekend, Saturday, Sunday, for a wedding hall. If we can arrange to do the wedding for them, then they'll pay us an additional couple hundred pounds. There's a lot of..., so many Indians there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are Indians there.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are Indians there.

Jayatīrtha: Lot of scope. They're coming to like our movement very much there now also, respecting. There's no more complaint. Before, there were some complaints.

Pañcadraviḍa: This last Sunday in New York for Śiva-rātri there were so many Indians there. There were thousands of Indians in that temple. It was very exciting just to see so many people come in.

Prabhupāda: This is a good chance of United Nation-Indian, Americans, Englishmen, German, all mixed together.

Jayatīrtha: Our Amsterdam temple has about sixty devotees, and they're from seventeen different countries, seventeen different nationalities are represented in the temple. There's nowhere else where so many different nationalities are living together.

Prabhupāda: No. This is the nucleus of United Nations, real. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), to understand everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the basic principle of United Nation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In that stage there can be equality. Otherwise not.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the combination of American money and Indian culture. This is the result. In every field of our activities, this will prove wonderful, American money and Indian culture. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sent me to America. "Go America." Generally people come to Western country means London. But I never thought of that. I thought, "I shall go to New York," from the very beginning.

Rādhā-vallabha: Īśopaniṣad also. "Over one million copies in print" at the top.

Rāmeśvara: It has new color pictures on the inside, the different selections.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are no such handsome books anywhere else in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: This is called a "teaser." All paperback books in America have this kind of teaser to attract the reader to find out more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The back cover is very good also, the heading.

Rāmeśvara: It says, "Eighteen age-old secrets of inner peace and fulfillment." These are the popular themes in America. Everyone is wanting this. Now we're telling people that "This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa...," we are describing it using the language of the modern psychologists, that "This will give you inner fulfillment. It will enable you to handle more stress and the pressures of daily life. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you get a stronger sense of your real identity. You feel more in control of your life." By using scientific descriptions, everyone appreciates it.

Prabhupāda: Recent printing, how many?

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gradually we shall increase so that... It should be attractive. He'll like to keep it. People should be encouraged. Utsāha. Utsāha. Utsāha is an item in bhakti, first the utsāha. Just like this boy. He did not come here, so he's so utsāha, enthusiasm. So he should be encouraged. And the whole basis of the devotional service is utsāha. Just like unless there was utsāha, how a man of seventy years old, without any hope, could go to such distant place from Vṛndāvana to New York? The only platform was utsāha. So utsāha is so important thing. Means they should be encouraged, spiritual life. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). All right. Thank you.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offer obeisances) Thank you. (break)

Harikeśa: ...million copies in print.

Prabhupāda: Looks little thicker than the other.

Harikeśa: Yes, it's two books in one.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Any letter?

Harikeśa: Yes. This is from Dvārakeśa, the boy who does this work.

Prabhupāda: Āsun. Bosen. Hungarian language (Bengali) ... (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. So why not? I may go or not go, but let the leaders take up this process to make Manipur an ideal state of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's already a lot of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And they are coming from Babhruvāhana. Babhruvāhana is the son of Arjuna.

Brahmānanda: They have much farming there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is wanted. Farming is wanted. What is this nonsense industry? When I passed through Berkeley and New York, really hellish, these buildings. Some of them are finished, all broken. Similarly London also. This civilization has no value. It is a demonic civilization. Jagataḥ ahitāya. Find out this, Sixteenth. Ugra-karma, jagataḥ ahitāya.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, that "You are not killing? You are cruel." (laughs) Just see. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." That is cruel. How can you pull on this civilization? But this is their religion. So what kind of persons they are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's some misunderstanding. When I came from New York, there was one Christian minister. He was going to Bangalore, India, but I was all the way from New York to Delhi with him. We sat together side by side, and since he was minister, he was interested in what I was doing, so we started talking about philosophy and the science of the self. So I asked that "Mostly we are told that in Christianity, many people don't believe that there is soul in animals." He said same thing, and he was a minister. In animals, plants...

Prabhupāda: Big animal. He's a big animal. Animals... He is also animal but big animal. That is what he... That I have already said, small animals. Śva-viḍ... What is that? viḍ-varā... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's a puruṣa. He's a very exalted person, but he's a paśu, animal, because he does not know anything about spiritual life.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So what you have decided? Yogeśvara was doing nice in translation, his wife was doing nice. So why should we lose these important hands?

Rāmeśvara: He hasn't been working at the French BBT for many months. He gave that up some time ago and was working with his wife at the gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He told me that he was frustrated. That's why he gave it up. When he was in New York he told me that had become discouraged.

Prabhupāda: So if Bhagavān and he does not agree, then he should be given better place that both husband and wife, they can go on with the translation work. It is not that he has to remain under the control of Bhagavān. That is not necessary. Let him translate independently, and wherever he likes, he can remain. What do you think?

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekala eka.(?) One man's conclusion is not good. Better consult with him. Then?

Satsvarūpa: Then for the division of the United States, for myself, for being editor of Back to Godhead, I would go to Los Angeles for that, Back to Godhead, but would also supervise the Northwest US zone, which includes Berkeley, California; Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and the Dallas temple. Rāmeśvara Mahārāja would continue being the GBC for Los Angeles, San Diego, Laguna Beach, and Denver. Balavanta Prabhu would keep his same zone—Atlanta; the Tennessee farm; Gainesville and Miami, Florida; New Orleans and the Mississippi farm; and Houston, Texas. Rūpānuga would also keep his same zone—Washington, D.C.; Baltimore; Philadelphia; St. Louis; the St. Louis farm; Ottawa; and Montreal, Canada. Kīrtanānanda would keep his same zone—New Vrindaban, Buffalo, Toronto, Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was accepted as your permanent secretary, and therefore, for the vacancy created in his absence in New York, Pennsylvania farm, Boston, Puerto Rico...

Rāmeśvara: And Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Satsvarūpa: ...and the Rādhā-Dāmodara party, it was decided that he should keep the responsibility of being the GBC for that area. However, Ādi-keśava Mahārāja will act as special assistant to the GBC and take the on-the-spot responsibility.

Prabhupāda: That means he'll be trained up in his place. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is only disadvantage here. Otherwise he's ready to print. That they can do fast.

Prabhupāda: So there is no harm. We can do there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where? In Los Angeles? But I don't know. Things are too slow in the West to communicate.

Prabhupāda: No, you can go. In your presence you can get it done.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I requested our Bharadvāja Prabhu a long time ago to... Our Bhaktivedanta Institute, that he design the logo. It's almost two years. He said he would do it, but I think he's also very busy. Things too slow on that...

Hari-śauri: To design the logo?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The design he told me. That was in New York when Śrīla Prabhupāda was in New York, and he talked very seriously of this request to do it. He's the expert... (end)

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: All temples will be encouraged by the GBC to undertake vigorous life membership programs with the Indians. In America this program should be standardized in all respects, using the present forms developed in New York and New Vrindaban. The program in USA will be overlooked by Ādi-keśava Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: A committee be formed of Saurabha, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, Rāmeśvara, Ātreya Ṛṣi, Jayapatākā, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and Gurukṛpā to research and give a report on all aspects of the Māyāpur projected construction, including its material feasibility, cash flow requirements. They will report their research to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: One very big paṇḍita is coming. He'll help us about the Sanskrit language, how to form this...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Planetarium.

Prabhupāda: ...planetarium.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: Every town and village.

Satsvarūpa: The following centers are opened out of New York Temple: New Haven, Connecticut; Long Island, New York; New Brunswick, New Jersey...

Prabhupāda: It is open?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, these are opened already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We opened these centers in the previous year, Śrīla Prabhupāda, putting... It's Guru-Gaurāṅga worship, not Deity Pañca-tattva worship.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Satsvarūpa: And in the Virgin Islands, two cities—St. Thomas and Aruba. And then for the coming year, permission given for opening centers in Phoenix and Albany. I was given permission for opening preaching center in San Francisco and in Colleen, Texas. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja already has opened an approved center in Bloomington, Indiana; and Columbus, Ohio; and in the coming year can open in Morgantown, West Virginia; Dayton and Toledo, Ohio. Rāmeśvara Mahārāja has already established preaching centers in Las Vegas and Salt Lake City, Utaḥ. Permission given for opening preaching center in San Antonio, Texas; Omaha, Nebraska; Albuquerque, New Mexico...

Prabhupāda: Las Vegas is a dangerous place? Eh? Do...?

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.

Hṛdayānanda: Your Bombay project is very impressive. We've just taken a tour.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In the history of India there is no woman leader. Throughout Mahābhārata you'll find... Mahābhārata is the greater history, history of greater India. Mahā means greater, and bhārata. So "Greater Bhārata." That means this whole planet. So you won't find woman leader

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are... Some letters have come from some prominent personalities. Here is one from Mr. S. P. Mondalia. Surya Prakash Mondalia. "Your Holiness..." It's from Industry House, Real(?) House. "Your Holiness, I was indeed happy to know from yesterday's newspapers that the suit filed against ISKCON has been decided in favor of ISKCON by the New York High-Court. Admittedly this is a clear vindication of the dharmic way of life chosen by ISKCON. I have great pleasure in extending my heartiest congratulations, and I hope that the ISKCON will progress from strength to strength in the service of the Lord. With respectful regards. Yours sincerely, Surya Prakash Mondalia."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not government make people God conscious? It is very simple thing. God personally is explaining how to become God conscious. Very simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Even a child can do it. So why not leaders? Then their example should be followed.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
tat tad evetaro janaḥ
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
(BG 3.21)

Why don't they do this, this God consciousness? Do it seriously. Then everything will be all right. They are defying the existence of God and reading Bhagavad-gītā. This is their position. And if I go to the details, it may not be very palatable. But big, big leaders say like that. We have got everything in India, and to become God conscious, to establish the Lord's kingdom, not at all difficult. But we manufacture our own ideas. But we want that rāma-rājya, but without Rāma, how rāma-rājya will be? So those who are leaders of the society, if they take it seriously, will there not be an ideal state? And you can make an..., set an example to the whole world. The whole world will be happy. But we must be very serious about it. That is our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying, but we have no support from the government, from the leaders. We are alone. Now, after twelve years, they have recognized in the United States and London, Germany. Otherwise I was, twelve years before, I was not (Rajda coughing). Loitering in the streets of New York, who was caring for me? Now these boys, they have joined, they are doing something, they are fighting.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think I haven't got such place to live anywhere in the world.

Gargamuni: It's actually your own building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This apartment is the best actually.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles and in New York, big, big cities they are—London, Paris. But nobody can present such luxurious royal palace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The drama was very appreciated last night. Samayadi was watching it with us, and he said he would like to arrange a big program in his house.

Prabhupāda: Old Samayadi or his son?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: His son. He liked the drama very much.

Lokanātha: It has become one of the main attractions of the public, this Vaikuṇṭha Player performance(?). After..., two nights after the program, I inquired from the public on the microphone, "Do you like this drama?" Immediately everybody raised their hands: "Yes!"

Prabhupāda: They were asking me whether they are professional men. "No, no, these all my disciples."

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Especially in New York, Los Angeles. In all cities. You can give report. You know very well. They are doing all right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I came about more than a month now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. When you were there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. In Washington and in Atlanta and Florida...

Prabhupāda: That standard should be maintained. Everywhere.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nicer now after the court case. All the devotees must be very enthused now because court was very favorable, New York case.

Prabhupāda: How is Vṛndāvana going on?

Dhanañjaya: By your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda is there. Our community is growing very nicely. The festival is very successful. Everyone enjoyed very much—kīrtanas and all the different programs.

Lokanātha: At Janmasthāna we had program last year, for four days having programs. Same as we have here. Kīrtanas, discourses, dramas, cinemas, prasādam distribution, book distribution. Many, many people came. Whole ground was...

Prabhupāda: This year or last year?

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Dhanañjaya: They come to see everything—the painting, the way the Deities are dressed. Now we are offering many sets of clothing for the Deities. We have offered already four sets of new clothing to the Deities. And everyone comes to see the beauty of the arrangement in the temple. The clothing and the painting. Everything is improving so nicely. They are becoming....

Prabhupāda: If you become nice devotee, everything will be improved. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). The more you increase your devotional service, everything will be increased. Who expected such temple here? You wanted from me fourteen lakhs. I had no fourteen hundred even. With so much difficulty we collected the money. Bali-mardana sent from New York, ten lakhs. Girirāja, you were from the very beginning, no? At that time you were in Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Send him this remark from the chief minister. He'll so much appreciate.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is appreciating this movement. Gradually, they will appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we saved twenty-five copies of that Times of India article about the court case in New York. Is there something you want done with those twenty-five articles?

Prabhupāda: Some of them should be sent to the municipal chairman, Vṛndāvana.

Gargamuni: They should be used by our preachers, 'cause many times we have met persons who have said, "I heard you have been thrown out of America." A lot of people say that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give you a few.

Gargamuni: So they should be used to show, "No, we are bona fide religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also they can be sent to the people who you got help from, Prabhupāda. I think you got help from some people in Vṛndāvana like that municipal...

Prabhupāda: That I say.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Ādi-keśava Mahārāja has at least a couple hundred letters from people in groups in India, from Vṛndāvana, all over the country. I think I could send him a copy of this article and he could send a thank—you letter along with this article to each of them, thanking them for their help. They appreciate it, coming from America, that the president of the New York center himself wrote them.

Gargamuni: I just returned from Calcutta, and they are expecting you to arrive tomorrow morning by plane.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: In Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: Because they said that when you left Calcutta that you would come back within two weeks, on April 4th, to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Well, because I was going to Manipur.

Gargamuni: So I told them that as far as I know there was no plan of Your Divine Grace...

Prabhupāda: No, because Manipur has not supplied. Otherwise, it was program that I shall come back, and after I shall go to Manipur.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the judgment of high-court, that should be also printed.

Gargamuni: The chief justice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the judgment from New York.

Prabhupāda: And respectable gentlemen will understand what is this temple. It is not this ordinary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hyderabad they can do the same. So you are going to get copies made and make a block?

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, I am going to send a man down today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a block.

Gargamuni: Yeah, for printing. You mean... What kind of a block?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A printing block.

Gargamuni: A printing block, because I am going to send these to all our colleges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you give me a few copies? Send it to the temple to me.

Prabhupāda: So how many copies you have printed?

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why you are concerned? If you become perfect by one, why you're after so many? Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). So we have taken that one. That's all. Kṛṣṇa. We are not after zeros. Ask these boys to come after zeros and bribe them millions of dollars. They will refuse: "No, we're after one, Kṛṣṇa." They have been trained up. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. We have written these big, big books, eighty-four books, only on Kṛṣṇa. Now it is recognized that Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine, in New York high-court.

Mr. Koshi: Yes, I saw the review in the Times of India also. But there was a lot of controversy there. It was called brainwashing and all that.

Prabhupāda: There are so many accusations. Now in the court has acknowledged, "It is genuine."

Mr. Koshi: But you don't require recognition of any court, do you?

Prabhupāda: You require. (laughter) I don't require. You require.

Mr. Koshi: Until then, there is a doubt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are after the court, after the judges. We are not after anyone. We are after one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. For you, it is confirmed. We know what our duty is. For the last twelve years there were so many impediments. It did not stop us. There was so much harassment.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And this is also mercy of Ānandamaya(?). Some young yogis she was keeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was one who was coming to America who seemed that to have been very intimate with her. He was able to call her on the telephone. She would come to the telephone. He helped us, though, in our court case. Ādi-keśava warned him. Because he was sometimes meeting all these women. Many women were coming to see him in New York. Many fashionable wealthy people. So Ādi-keśava Mahārāja warned him that "If you associate with these women, you will fall down." He liked Ādi-keśava very much and helped him, because he could see that he was strict sannyāsī. (break)

Prabhupāda: At this time, in other parts of India it is very hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: April, very hot. Actually, I'm pretty...

Prabhupāda: Except in Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Calcutta was quite hot when we were there. Remember coming from Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's cool.

Prabhupāda: Calcutta and Bengal has got a facility. Every evening there is a small shower of rain. That keeps the temperature mild. During this April-May, you will find every evening there is a thunderstorm and little shower. That is in Bengal's special... A good wind will come. Sometimes it is cyclonic. And immediately the whole atmosphere will be reduced temperature. Sometimes in U.P. also.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were complaining that they weren't getting things timely. So Yogeśvara will handle all the international business of the L.A. BBT.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He's very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "2) Rādhā-vallabha will train up Vipra dāsa in New York to oversee the color printing done at Tandem Press." The reason for this is that every month, at least once a month if not more, Rādhā-vallabha has to fly to New York.

Prabhupāda: No, this should be stopped. Extravagance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Up until now, Rādhā-vallabha has claimed that no one else is qualified to do this, but...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...the BBT felt that he could be trained. Vipra dāsa is about forty years old, and he's a trained photographer for many years.

Prabhupāda: And every time Rādhā-vallabha changes something, that should be stopped. He is very much inclined to change something. This practice should be stopped.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Girirāja: At Mr. Rajda's office the ex-mayor was there. One of the ex-mayors of Bombay was there. He was the chief guest here on Vyāsa-pūjā day two years ago. So he had recently visited our New York center, and he liked it very much, New York and Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: He's impressed. He told Mr. Rajda? He informed Mr. Rajda?

Girirāja: Um, not... No, he didn't, not when I was there. But I am sure they had talked. I mean, people are very aware of our movement, at least superficially, that we are building something, we're doing some... One weekly newspaper editor...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I'm going to write... If you leave me a tiny bit of room, I'll write "For International Society for Krishna Consciousness Building Fund" just above.

Prabhupāda: Write there.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Cheated with ninety rupees, and he's no more...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the foreigners bought the island of Manhattan for twenty-four dollars from the Indians, the native Indians in New York, twenty-four dollars' worth of trinkets. And they purchased.

Prabhupāda: No, the land was there. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura purchased Māyāpur at eight annas a bighā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now...

Prabhupāda: Two thousand rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they want five thousand. Same land.

Prabhupāda: Land value has increased.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say that land, buying land, is better investment than putting your money in the bank, so much increasing.

Prabhupāda: And they'll not allow. Rather, I cannot purchase land instead of keeping in the bank. They will not allow.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced. So this is a childish civilization. This is not sober civilization. There is no full-brain man. All restless dogs and hogs. And they have taken it is first class, dogs and hogs. Actually, they are living dogs and hogs, and they are claiming civilized. There is no difference dogs and hogs life and the modern man. The dogs and hogs whole day work. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate. In London, in New York, early in the morning they will to the work, put-put-put-put. They could not take rest even at night peacefully. The anxiety is "If I do not reach early in the factory, I will (indistinct). The whole day's salary will be..." He is anxious. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Always full of anxieties. Asad grahāt. On account of this body. The same principle is being followed by the hogs.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are taking from this point of view, that India's culture has been so nicely spread that people are taking serious con... That is their appreciation. We have got differences of opinion, philosophy. That is our... But India's culture is being accepted through the world. That they are appreciating.

Girirāja: During the New York case, one of the leading men in the Arya Samaj wrote a very personal letter in support of us, not a standard letter, but in his own words he was glorifying your work like anything, and especially from this point of view.

Patita-pāvana: Even this Arkasomayaji, his iṣṭa-devatā is Kanaka Durgā from the Kabur district of the Godāvarī in Andhra, and he's a Māyāvādī. I told him, "We have some difference, but please shelve your differences and simply follow our point of view." He said, "That's all right, but I think your guru is the Divine walking the earth, and I must serve him." (laughs) So I said, "Very good. Please come and help."

Prabhupāda: So arrange to receive them. Give them very kindly... If Acarya agrees, that will be great success.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So both you and Mahadevia together supply... This friend of Mahadevia...

Girirāja: Yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That girl in Los Angeles?

Prabhupāda: No, in New York.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Mūrti-vandya. Mūrti-vandya.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now, how they have become Kṛṣṇa conscious? And our men? They are dragged, somebody, to this conscious, that conscious, that conscious. Take this steady instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Try to implement. Everyone will be happy, everyone, undoubtedly. Take this seriously. It is not that, because we are pushing Kṛṣṇa ... We are not pushing something new, manufactured. It is already there. It is already there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So what do you think? Is it possible to push Kṛṣṇa consciousness on this line, strictly on Bhagavad-gītā? What do you think? It is not difficult, but we have made it difficult. Recently I had been to Vinoba Bhave's aśrama. And there is no Kṛṣṇa, and he is writing Bhagavad-gītā pravacana or something like that. Even in Gandhi's āśrama, Wardha(?), the Gandhi's lantern is being worshiped. And where is Kṛṣṇa? So the Bhagavad-gītā's instruction is mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and they are worshiping Gandhi's lantern. You had been with me?

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whales.

Prabhupāda: Whale or some fish skeleton. As big as this room, it was hanging. I think it is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the Museum of Natural History in New York they have a whale that is at least twice the length of this room.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the height is at least three times the height of this room.

Prabhupāda: So they can swallow, big, big fish. There is immense space in the sea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually the one in the Museum of Natural History in New York, they didn't even leave the skeleton. They recreated the body so it looks just real. We went with Bharadvāja and Rāmeśvara and myself for studying for the doll project. We were looking at how they made everything very authentic. It's amazing. They even have underwater scenes. Of course, there's no water, but it appears to be underwater by the way they make the diorama. So this evening in the... They'll be coming in to see you, the managers.

Prabhupāda: So let them begin the foundation.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that place is also nice?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Jayatīrtha: Many people will come there.

Prabhupāda: That is further improvement. I want to do in New York, everywhere. That Kṛṣṇa's desire...

Jayatīrtha: You've entered into almost every home in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as your books.

Prabhupāda: That is a...

Jayatīrtha: In every home you're staying.

Prabhupāda: The Deity worship and Indian real culture you develop. That is our contribution. Nobody could do before me, in the Western countries, introduction of this Deity worship, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **, and large-scale distribution of Indian cultural traditions. This is a new contribution. Not bug-bhak(?). The Indians are realizing. All these rascal swamis, "bug-bhak,"(?) professional... Here there is Śyāmabhāi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here there is...?

Prabhupāda: Śyāmabhāi.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are seeing it is done? Who says that? Where is the rascal?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To designate all these...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be done for all the property all over ISKCON.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but especially here in India.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in big temples, like in L.A., New York, like that.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the trustees should be designated.

Prabhupāda: You do not know. Trustee without designation—where is the trustee? I have already made one block of trustees, that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In that style you make.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So we'll make up a draft of that style and then, after the draft is approved, you can tell us which trustees you want.

Prabhupāda: That you select amongst yourselves. Why you are taxing me?

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is that magistrate's...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one from London?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How the magistrate has... We are getting good judgment in so many big, big cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The London one we won.

Prabhupāda: We have owned one case, very important case, in the Supreme Court of New York. I have translated into Hindi.

Guest (1): The case has been decided in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Yes, that he told me and he...

Prabhupāda: No, I, by... A very learned judge has translated it. Because there are so many technical... And the Indian...

Guest (3): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) For this.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran, in the courts, the prince and princes are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in the court, in the palace.

Guest (3): Śrī Gaurāṅga's incarnation on his tongue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have both, that one from London and New York.

Prabhupāda: That London is shorter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: London is a lot shorter. This happened in London, England. It says, "Next morning in the court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us." This is... "Our men were doing nagara-saṅkīrtana, so some constable, police officer, said that 'You are blocking the footpath with your nagara-saṅkīrtana, and I must arrest you.' " So they were taken to court. "The next morning in court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us. The judge, therefore, deferred our case to a later time, the 2nd of February at two p.m. It was not until the day before the hearing that we realized the actual significance of the appointment. The second day of February was the appearance day of Lord Nityānanda Prabhu. After ending a morning of fasting and chanting with a blissful ārati and splendid prasāda, we set off for the great Marlborough Street magistrate's court in a confident mood, sure that Lord Nityānanda would protect us. We were accompanied by a new and enthusiastic visitor to the temple, the Reverend Norman Morehouse, second only to the Bishop of Norwich, who came to observe the proceedings."

Prabhupāda: He's our great friend.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Somebody else.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Bhakti-caru: Yet that style of writing is quite alike. (break)

Prabhupāda: When I go to Los Angeles I am in Vaikuṇṭha. When I am got to New York I am in Vaikuṇṭha. Wherever we have got temple, that is Vaikuṇṭha. So why shall I have objection? So do your duty nicely and see what Kṛṣṇa desires. Let it be fulfilled. But you do your duty. It is your duty to pray to Kṛṣṇa as affectionate children, and let Kṛṣṇa decide. And I have no objection, either. So what is the next?

Girirāja: Well, in continuation of arranging for the properties and other things to be managed...

Prabhupāda: Which... Bhagatjī is proposed for the trustee?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Which?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Trust.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Trust.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think there is already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one. In the room there's a marble plaque with Your Divine Grace's name.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, with your permission I would like to try to get that first building in New York in which you were, you started Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Ācchā?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On Second Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-six?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Prabhupāda said that we could do that.

Prabhupāda: How you can get it?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I'm going to New York in a week, and I can try to either purchase it...

Ādi-keśava: It's open.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's still available. We checked.

Ādi-keśava: The building's available now.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Should we not acquire it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: If you can maintain it, then it is all right. That, you mean to say, that storefront or the whole building?

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other than that, you won't get outsiders to come in, though.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But it's a great... It's an important spot.

Prabhupāda: That is dangerous portion of New York City. Just after my house they were regularly drinking and... Negroes. I didn't care. Never they did any harm to me. Bowery Street. And still, I was there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We thought about this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had thought about this previously. The difficulty, we felt, was just that no one will... Unless it was used as a temple now, simply to keep it as some room for a few people to see once every month or two when they pass through New York, that's not living. It should be alive.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If there's no life in it, then what's the use? That place is not especially a good place for a temple anymore.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But fifty years...

Prabhupāda: No, so many houses, they are lying vacant. Nobody goes there.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a word, devāyatana,(?) Indian. Devāyatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America... Just like in New York there's a twelve-thirteen-story building. The temple only occupies the ground floor. They can't mortgage... Sometimes if they want to get other properties, they may want to use the asset of that building. If they have this clause, they won't be able to.

Rāmeśvara: Also sometimes we have got one property in America, and you have allowed us to sell it. Just like in Miami we had to sell the property in Coconut Grove and we bought that big farm.

Prabhupāda: No, with the consent of the GBC...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Consent of the GBC.

Prabhupāda: Like that.

Jayapatākā: Properties in America can't be sold unless...

Rāmeśvara: We had a GBC meeting, and we made a system so that there are three GBC men assigned to every American property, and they can't even be mortgaged without the signature of these three men.

Prabhupāda: And that declaration should be taken. That you are already taking.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "By the consent..."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Sold or mortgaged, never.

Girirāja: Prabhupāda doesn't want us to put in "can be sold or mortgaged..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about mortgaged? Just like, as an example, that New York building. They'll... When they pay it off, that building...

Rāmeśvara: They can get a million-dollar loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can get a loan for a million dollars.

Rāmeśvara: And buy another building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or so many buildings.

Girirāja: But then there's risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you consider.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And actually it so happened. Who would have joined unless I would have gone from United States? Useless. Their money, their men, they are helping. That's a fact. And that was my aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You tried here first.

Prabhupāda: And they are useless here, waste of time. Neither I wanted to go to London. "New York I shall go."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone else would have gone to London.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to go to the Western countries means to go to England. I didn't like that. I thought, "I shall go to New York."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very modern thinking, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa has arranged.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Grease.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's a grease. It's for burning, though. Eight thousand dollars a month, nine thousand dollars... And that elevator, three thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Eleven?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The elevator charge, for the electricity, twenty-five hundred dollars a month. It's not a joke to run a building of that size. That's why in New York to have, own a building in that location they get a very good rent. Every apartment, say, a two and half room apartment, 250, 300 dollars per month.

Prabhupāda: USA.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have three hundred rooms. It would fetch... If it was divided up as an all-apartment building, it would make very..., lot of money. To run a building like that... It's very prestigious. Even though it's not a new building, still, it is prestigious. People are impressed. Many Indian people come there from India at night. A number of officials came, and they were all very... They said, "Oh, we didn't know you had such a building like this." They said like that. They were very impressed. And they liked the... They were very much impressed with the temple room and the restaurant and the general size of the building. Those three features are impressive. The restaurant they're very impressed by, pure vegetarian prasādam served with a restaurant atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: And so palatable.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very palatable. They're quite impressed. Puris, samosās, kacuris... They couldn't dream to come to New York and get these things. Therefore they eat meat. They think it's not available. There's only one other pure vegetarian restaurant in New York.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Besides ours, there's only one other Indian pure vegetarian restaurant. And it's always packed. Indian people want vegetarian. But we... On the other hand, we only get... About one third of our customers are Indian. Mostly we get Americans. The businessmen come and the secretaries, theater people, families.

Prabhupāda: They like prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, very much. Because vegetarian is becoming now a very popular thing. People are thinking that it is more healthy to eat vegetarian. They call it health food. It's called health food. In fact, they have places called "health food bar." Instead of getting a whiskey, they get carrot juice, like that. People come... They comes sometimes just for one glass of juice. They'll pay dollar and a half, any price. They'll pay anything in America. If you know how to sell it, you can ask any price. Now, this month of June, now the prasādam carts will be doing more and more, all day long, because New York...

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I have seen. They are always busy. Always.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our New York building we have two elevators. And that impresses people when they come there to see. If you own a building with two elevators in it, it's a big thing.

Prabhupāda: It goes up to the roof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And the roof is quite nice. When the viewers see...

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were sitting on it. Prabhupāda would sit up there in the evening, and he even took massage sometimes. The most... Excuse me, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Very nice roof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The special feature of that roof is that for some reason there are no tall buildings around our building. Sometimes people say, "Your movement has come a long way from Second Avenue."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Who are these men? I was loitering. Yes. "Let me take this train. Let me see where it goes." Like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the Bronx?

Prabhupāda: Hm. I was sitting alone on the New York house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Park.

Prabhupāda: Then I heard that one crazy man was killed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you stopped going. Oh, those parks are dangerous. In New York you can't go alone.

Prabhupāda: That was my morning walk. (laughs) I did not know what is morning walk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the zoo in Central Park? Central Park you would go to also?

Prabhupāda: Alone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Were you doing any translation work at that time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, in New York, that is one of their complaints, the Indian people, that we don't cook spicy enough. Too bland for their palate. And we're not accustomed to that so much, hot spices. They like.

Prabhupāda: Without spices, Indians should not cook.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they won't digest it either.

Prabhupāda: You'll be surprised how what quantity of spices toward(?) Indians. There is a Calcutta wholesale market of spices. They... Everywhere, not Calcutta... Chili, they are sold in big, big bag. We have seen in Hyderabad a spice shop, chili, large shop. And amongst the spices, the chili is most favorable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they like it very much. You also use it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. And there are so many spices.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The spice merchants are usually pious men who become members, I have found. In any city...

Prabhupāda: They have got money.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is his wife. So they were friends. She was this woman's friend before this woman knew about Kṛṣṇa. So she's trying to encourage her.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (break) ...yatra is going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's supposed to appear in New York Ratha-yātrā, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All three, with all of..., many of her followers.

Prabhupāda: Public will see how we can unite white and black by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be very good result.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lot of black people follow her. All of her followers are black people.

Prabhupāda: Introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city. Great festival will attract people. When we first..., first or second year, Upendra was dancing like anything. (laughs) You remember?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the second year. Around the tree he would dance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember that?

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I started this movement with forty rupees. You know that Scindia Steam Navigation Company?

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they gave me a free ticket, and the government allowed me to take with me, forty rupees. In this state, condition, I started for New York. You see? No friend, no secre..., no hotel, nothing, arrangement. This was the beginning. Then I went there. So I do not know how it happened. Now we have got forty crores. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I never expected that my books will be sold and appreciated all over the world. So that is being done. People are appreciating the whole movement. Even in our country our government, it has come to their notice, cabinet ministers. So my point of view was that in Delhi there is a confectioner's shop. You had been in Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you go to Delhi sometimes?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I will...

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you show by example. Bring these brahmacārīs. Teach them, and gradually... Just like our organization not all of a sudden has become so big. I was... For more than one year I was simply loitering on the street of New York like a vagabond. Who was hearing me? Still, I am going once in a month to the ship company that "When your next ship is coming to go to India?" So the manager: "Swamiji, you are coming. When you are going away?" I said, "Yes, I have no business practically here. But still, I want to stay and see if things can be pushed." Therefore I am writing. Otherwise I am useless. I am simply loitering and seeing the Fifth Avenue and the... And within the subway station, after taking my lunch I used to go by bus here and there, in the subway, anywhere go, it stops. No shelter. I was cooking, myself, in a friend's house. So he took it as a free cook he has got. And two men, of course, we... Sometimes some guest would... And I would be very glad. And ten, twenty, I'll feed them. And they would like very much ḍāl, cāpāṭi, and one vegetable. First-class... Everyone would like. That was going on, ḍāl, cāpāṭi, and one vegetable. I'll take pleasure. Sometimes somebody would come to assist me. He wanted to eat immediately. And "No, that you cannot. After I have finished, when it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, then I'll give you sumptuous prasādam, not before." So there was no... And little rice. Ḍāl, cāpāṭi, rice, vegetable, bas. Oh, it was so nice. Everyone would praise. The same thing, when I took my own apartment I did the same thing, distributed prasādam. Then, gradually, they came forward to assist me. First came Kīrtanānanda. He is the first cook. Then Acyutānanda. Brahmānanda was washing dish. He could not help the cooking.

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here is America. Here is India. If you go immediately, then one way, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only one way. But they go two ways.

Prabhupāda: Two way?

Śatadhanya: From New York or from San Francisco.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can go from New York, that direction, or they go from Los Angeles, the other way. Either way, they come to India, and they say, "That proves the world is round 'cause we can go like this or we can go this way." But we say, "No, you can only go this way." But the compass shows I am going due east...

Prabhupāda: So we don't say differently. You can go this way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we don't say that. Because there's no round, we say... Simply it's a lotus. It's not...

Prabhupāda: No, I... It is the same example. Just a animal is bound up, so he's going this round or this round, the same thing. But you cannot go beyond that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That they'll... "We accept." I take the view of the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. We don't say. Suppose you are going round, you'll go this round or this round, but within the round.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have nothing to preach. What they have got to preach?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a picture. It shows only two pictures. Here is the difference between the Moonies and us. Here is a picture of some Moon woman. She has a picture of Moon on her button and her daughter waving the American flag. And then here's us, the devotees. "Hare Kṛṣṇa followers parade on the street." This is in New York. These are some of the New York devotees. "The drop-out rate is high, but there is a slow though steady growth rate among the small membership." This is from the New York Times. I know all these devotees.

Prabhupāda: Slow but sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. "Slow but steady growth rate." There's quite a difference. What does this have to do with anything, having an American flag? This is our trademark, this shaved head.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shaved head and tilaka. They all have tilaka, and beadbags. And everyone is happy here.

Prabhupāda: So there is some agitation about our movement, that "How it is going on, whether it will stay." So anything more?

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That New York building cost over one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?

Vrindavan De: Even I cannot think of.

Prabhupāda: Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price six million dollars?

Vrindavan De: Sixty lakhs.

Indian: Five lakhs forty thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no. Six million means five crores.

Indian: Five crores for...

Vrindavan De: No. One million is ten lakhs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six crores.

Prabhupāda: So that house we are possessing.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "Well, no, you can wear your Santa Claus suit, but you'll have to wear a Hare Kṛṣṇa button."

Prabhupāda: That we can do. Never mind. But that is not under your dictation. If I like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They actually made us in New York, the court.

Prabhupāda: No, then there is no objection. But you cannot dictate...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What dress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I may dress myself to your liking; I may not. Rather, you like the Santa Claus dress. You are Christian. I am pleasing you by dressing myself like this. Why you are not pleased? I am trying to please you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "Well, actually you're concealing your identity."

Prabhupāda: That is my liking. You cannot dictate. I'm not pickpocketing you. What is the objection?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "Well, why don't you tell people who you actually are? Why don't you say you're a Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: No, that is my desire. You cannot dictate.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Original ingredient is bhūmi, earth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's no reason... It's pure. It's not a question that it's not pure.

Prabhupāda: No. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another thing he says... The last point is that he saw... You know in New York they made those busts to be put in libraries, of Your Divine Grace? Some sculptures. Remember I showed you some photographs of...

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he understood that busts of divine images of guru and Kṛṣṇa are not to be made. He says in New York you explained this point with reference to photographs that were used in Back to Godhead of your divine self that it was impersonal to cut off some portion of the complete worshipable form.

Prabhupāda: No, if it is not worshipable, if it is to be kept in library, that can be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "I beg to be excused for troubling Your Divine Grace on all these questions, which I always hesitate to do, but I took this liberty."

Prabhupāda: You are always allowed. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. This is one of the duties of devotees. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Pamphlet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's a pamphlet. Should I read it to you? It says, "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Encyclopedia Department, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu Road, Juhu, Bombay. In 1970 His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda founded the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust for worldwide printing and publishing of Vedic knowledge. Today the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publishes in twenty-five languages with total of 55,000,000 publications printed in six years." Phew! Fifty-five million! That means an average of nearly ten million a year, pieces of literature. No other publishing house can boast that, I don't think, such a big amount. "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust offices are located in Los Angeles, New York, London, Paris, Frankfurt, and Bombay. Śrīla Prabhupāda has..."

Prabhupāda: You can send one copy to Dr. Kapoor by post.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll tell Gargamuni. It will be more impressive coming from Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one to Bon Mahārāja at Vaṁśī-vaṭa(?).

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The newspapers are being told what to print. They're afraid to print anything else. But foreign press can print anything. And other press, Delhi press, Bombay press, they can print anything. This was dated the eleventh.

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Get this fan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fans? Encouraging report from Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja about all of the things that he's in charge of. It's very nice.

Prabhupāda: In New York. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda's the president of the farm, and he's the sannyāsī there. And he's also in charge of the Rādhā-Dāmodara office. While Tripurāri Mahārāja travels in the field, he heads up the office. And the office is in a city right near the farm. So he goes half the week to the farm, half the week to the office to manage. Remember I mentioned, Dhṛṣṭadyumna's brother is an architect. So they're planning the farm for building it. It's called a model community. They're going to make it New Varṣāṇā Model Community. Everything will be planned out ahead of time—where the cows will be living—from the point of Vedic conception. It won't be hodgepodge. And they feel that it will gain tremendous interest amongst the prominent persons of America who want to visit a model community. Many universities and schools will send groups of students to visit and see. That's their idea.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That you cannot check. Gṛhastha means they must have sex. But they're living independent, separately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land.

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere. If they are doing independent business, let them do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in the New York...

Prabhupāda: Karmīs' concession, sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the New York they can live families together? In that building, families can live together and have sex life?

Prabhupāda: What is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that building. It's all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? In a building there are so many different types of men. In a big building, apartment building, you cannot expect all of them of the same class.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can go directly from London to Los Angel...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, I think there is a direct flight.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In terms of time? You mean flight time instead of stopping in New York, what is the benefit of flying direct? Just the landing time in New York you save. The flight is pretty much the same. You save at least an hour to an hour and a half, two hours. Because when the flight goes from London to New York, when it first hits America, it hits America north of Canada practically, and then they go down the eastern seaboard. It hits Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and then it goes south down Massachusetts, like that, Connecticut, and then to New York.

Prabhupāda: But it does not stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So I'm saying if it was going direct to Los Angeles it wouldn't have to go down. It could keep going. It would be like this, straight. So you'd save time.

Prabhupāda: Generally from London to New York, six hours. And from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York to LA is about four and a half hours. That's ten and a half hours.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And we reached Los Angeles, local time, about four o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You gain time. You gain a lot of time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means Paris to London took about five minutes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New York to Paris?

Prabhupāda: No. Paris to... Because we started at twelve local time. And we reached Los Angeles...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At four or five.

Prabhupāda: Four. The same thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like you go from India to New York, you leave India at, say, one or two in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, Delhi, and you reach New York three o'clock in the afternoon same day. Twelve hours. Actually you've been traveling twenty hours or more, but it's twelve hours only on the clock. It's a very nice experience. You feel like you've put something over on the material energy. It feels like you've gained something, gained time.

Prabhupāda: The more you go, western side, you save time. The more you go eastern side, you add time.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles is hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Los Angeles will be hot. That's why when I made that itinerary that's the last place practically. You'd reach Los Angeles by, say, the middle of September. By then it's cooler. New York is quite good towards the end of August, one of the nicest times of the year, the beginning of fall.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very pleasant, New York and other places. And the fact is that any time, if you really felt the need, we could rush back to India. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're not... By nature you've never been inactive. We can begin the activity by airplane travel and then a little car journey to the temple, and then we can carry you around in certain places. Like at the New York farm. Oh, we can give you wonderful ride in the palanquin. That's very appealing. If you go on the palanquin in the fresh air. No? That'll be, I think...

Prabhupāda: No, activity will give appetite.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it has to. Change of atmosphere gives appetite also.

Prabhupāda: So let us artificial activity. I think this is a nice arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra and I could see it for the last... (break)

Prabhupāda: And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become ṛttvik and act on my charge. People are becoming sympathetic there. The place is very nice.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then another letter came from... This is becoming more and more prevalent. It's called the "Parents' Newsletter."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness Parents' Newsletter-ISKCON New York." Put out by Śravaṇānanda's mother. "Ratha-yātrā '77 is Coming." It tells all the parents that they should come to Ratha-yātrā. Then there's an article, "The Roots of the American Krishna Movement."

Prabhupāda: Who has written?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By a brahmacārī named Tattvavit dāsa brahmacārī. Because you said just like they have an American Christian movement, now we should be known as the American Krishnas. So he wrote, "The American Krishna Movement." Then the public likes it: "Oh, it's American."

Prabhupāda: American (indistinct) is nice.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One man is kneading flour, five sers, and he's getting two hundred rupees' salary, and paratha and halavā. This is management, going on. Now today it has been checked. They are eating paratha and our men are starving. He is getting two hundred rupees, three hundred rupees. This is management. What can be done? And he has... Three dozen manager, four dozen cook. This is... That's all. I am giving you report which he has given to me. Money is squandered like anything, and live blindly, and "Still, I want everything for myself." Everything is in my notice. I can feel now actually (indistinct) is coming. Anyway, we want... In India, the affairs are most mismanaged. That we see. In foreign countries they are doing very nice. In New York, in Los Angeles, in Chicago. Now there is Toronto report. This Toronto report... I do not know how things are managed there very nicely, and here..., three dozen cook. "Too many cooks spoil the broth."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not cooking for any more people here than they do in New York. They don't have one hired person.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How many you have?

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yaśomatīnandana will order that set. You can sell.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, each temple I've given them a quota of one lakh cards. I wrote a newsletter to all the temples, and they must do minimum one lakh cards. Plus we're going to export these to New York, London, Los Angeles. They're all interested in these.

Prabhupāda: The printing is first class.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's like American standard.

Prabhupāda: I think the Diwali greeting card dealers also will accept.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but we are keeping it... Śrīla Prabhupāda, I studied the whole market. It is to our advantage to restrict the sale, because when we deal with dealers or distributors we have to sell them at half the price and allow them to keep their profit. But we want to make this exclusive for life members. Otherwise, if anyone can buy it in a market, it's not such a great prestige.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You keep...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So this we are showing, as if we are doing the life members a favor. These are just some advanced samples that are printed just to get orders. And plus, anyone who orders more than hundred cards, we will print their name and message inside. And plus, there's a mahā-mantra on the back of every... Hundred cards is the minimum order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A hundred's nothing. They'll all do that.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhaviṣṇu: Actually many of the upper-class Muslims who are more intellectually advanced, they were quite appreciative of our philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We said, "Why you say Hindu? We are not Hindu, Muhammadan. We are for humanity." (break) ...continue this kavirāja or we shall change? If we have to change, whether that astrologer has got any information? (break) New York Ratha-yātrā, there was no coverage in the press?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was. I just finished reading Ādi-keśava's letter, and he says by separate post he's sending us news clippings and photographs.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. And so far the Indians are concerned...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's strange that he did not write. I will question him what was the response from the Indian community.

Prabhupāda: Indian community, they are regularly coming in our temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I would imagine that there was a good many thousand Indians at the festival. There must have been. We have quite a good relationship with the Indian community in New York. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and others have developed it through the years now, in the last two years.

Room Conversation -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Try to bring him back. He is very competent. So jointly organize South Africa, both Europeans, Americans, Africans. Tulasī dāsa is very competent also. United Nations under Caitanya Mahāprabhu's flag, do everywhere. It is possible. Always that is simply a false attempt. This is the real.

Brahmānanda: You said that when you first came to New York. You went to the United Nations. The very first day I came to the kīrtana there in New York. The next day you went for that peace vigil outside the United Nations, and you were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saying that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only method for making United Nations.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Āśraya lañā pāile, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra sama māre aphala.(?) If we try under the protection of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, things will be successful. Others, they'll simply waste time and be disappointed and change his body and suffer. Today is Ekādaśī?

Haṁsadūta: Today is Ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Two songs especially, Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, and Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, should be continued as well as any song, especially, I mean to say, here in this room.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is preaching.

Brahmānanda: You also tricked us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you came to New York. You were just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and speaking on Bhagavad-gītā, and we came and we listened, and then you took everything. You took our lives, took all of our money... (devotees chuckle) We left our families.

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali word, "Enter like a needle and come out like a plow." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: "Enter like a needle and come out like a plow."

Prabhupāda: If you say in the beginning, "I am a plow," he'll not allow you to enter. Say "I am needle." Let us try to serve Kṛṣṇa. He'll give all intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Now go on. Take rest.

Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya-ho.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Paramānanda: Also I would like to offer you the obeisances of Gaura Hari Prabhu and Bhurijana, who may not be able to come and see you. They're also working very dedicatedly to developing this project, and they wanted very much to come and see you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja is here also, and his brother is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His brother's name is Bill. I think you remember meeting Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja's parents in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Dhṛṣṭadyumna is, I think, the elder. His brother is here.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My brother is an architect, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he's helping us to design the community plan for the small village and the temple. He's working very hard to help set up an ideal Vedic community.

Prabhupāda: Keep always engaged yourself in Kṛṣṇa activity. That is wanted. Jaya. (break) ...yad yad ācarati... (BG 3.21). You can give me two teaspoon glucose.

Brahmānanda: Two teaspoons?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Glucose.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Any respectable Indian who goes to our temple, and they give us as they want. There is no such temple in India.

Rāmeśvara: These were the new clothes for Balarāma's Appearance Day.

Guest (2): (Bengali)

Rāmeśvara: These are new clothes at New York. Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Govinda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of some of your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It shows what all the Bhāgavatams, First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth Cantos look like on the shelf. Not all of them are there, but it shows the colors.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to make a bookshelf big enough.

Rāmeśvara: There is not one bookshelf big enough. And here these are different Bhagavad-gītās: English, Japanese, Portuguese, German, Spanish, French, Swedish, and Italian.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chinese. Where's Chinese?

Hari-śauri: There's more than that.

Rāmeśvara: There are more.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are expert at preaching to the guṇḍās. Therefore everyone becomes converted by your preaching. We were all guṇḍās. I think that your coming to America was no less fearless than Lord Caitanya when He went into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest to preach, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In fact, we were worse than the animals that Lord Caitanya had to deal with. At least an animal keeps to his nature. Just like you described that boy that who was taking... You were staying in his loft, and he was taking intoxicants. He was acting like you could not calculate what he would do. Animals you can expect something. And you were there alone. Single-handedly, you were walking around in the streets. Sometimes New York is called a jungle.

Bhavānanda: "Asphalt jungle."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asphalt jungle.

Prabhupāda: Who is come in?

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, you are taking care of that conveyance?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: Because you are a paramahaṁsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are seeing everyone else as surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. But only by your mercy, you are forcing us to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Mr. Sukamal Roy Chowdury.

Prabhupāda: So I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually... Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So I think Jayapatākā can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, deputies, Jayapatākā's name was there?

Bhagavān: It is already on there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His name was on that list.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now he's successful.

Bharadvāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where is his wife?

Bharadvāja: She is in New York with the child. She is working with Yogeśvara there on children's books.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bharadvāja: Īśāna has taken to vānaprastha. He is living in New Dvārakā, but he's living in a shack, in a very simple room, and living just like in Vṛndāvana. He has given up comforts.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Go on chanting. (break) ...of Rāmānuja-sampradāya, with that big, big...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tilaka?

Prabhupāda: Hm. He is preparing makara-dhvaja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of jala?

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these are the points, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we have... We expanded this. Your original simple point was to form a Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity for developing Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. So we have expanded it into these points if they please Your Divine Grace. We took the ideas mostly from your original points in the..., when you formed the New York corporation, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We used those points and just changed them around a little bit. Today that Jagadish, I forget his name, that lawyer from Mathurā, he is coming, so I'm going to be meeting with him, and I'll give him these points and see if he can draft a document, proper document. I'd like to get a document done in time so that when we go to Māyāpur, and especially at Gaura-Pūrṇimā, we can have the first meeting. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...mantras nonstop, while he's preparing. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is Vrindavan? I spoke with him for about two hours this afternoon, going over all of the points again, and, er, I explained everything to him. He said that he personally has very bad luck, very unlucky person. He said, "My only possible hope is my father."

Prabhupāda: To guide him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I told him, "You're right. Actually Prabhupāda is... All of us were in the same position. We're all unlucky. Our only hope is Śrīla Prabhupāda." I said, "As long as you keep remembering that, then you'll be all right." (break)

Prabhupāda: Hm. Submissive, we can guide him.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fainting means of death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I know myself, I have a history where I have fainted more than twenty-five times in my life, and I did not die. I fainted in so many different places. In the subways in New York...

Prabhupāda: You are young man, and I am already dead.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we see what the kavirāja thinks, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Should we call him?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (whispering) Why "phish-phish"? Why not talk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Why whispering?" Upendra was saying that not going is all right, but the fact that you are rejecting medicine, that is not good. So I was saying that I don't really think that you're rejecting the medicine, but you're taking that position so that we settle in between. (laughing) I can understand that you appreciate that the medicine is doing some good, but in order to get us to agree...

Brahmānanda: It is you who were saying that by Prabhupāda's not going, then we're at a loss for medicine. So then Prabhupāda said, "All right, then no medicine."

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayādvaita: The president is Guṇa-grāhī Prabhu. He's been a devotee for a long time. The management is also very nicely going on. (break) You sent Bhavānanda there many years ago when they were in Brooklyn and ordered him to make the devotees happy. And ever since then, they've been peaceful... (indistinct) Even before that. I remember when I first came to New York, when the storefront was there. I came on Sunday, and there were so many different preparations. Haṁsadūta Mahārāja was cooking. And so many different preparations. And after taking that feast I decided that I would not leave—"This is too nice." So they're going on, still very opulent, sumptuous prasādam. And people are deciding that "Oh, this is very nice. Let us not leave. Let us go on taking prasādam." And in the restaurant very respectable people come. (pause)

Prabhupāda: You read some more.

Jayādvaita: Yes, with great pleasure. Teachings of Lord Kapiladeva.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.

Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa book. Any particular part that you'd like to hear, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. From Second Part.

Jayādvaita: Second Volume. "Akrūra's Arrival in Vṛndāvana." Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So we'll be back in a little while, Śrīla Prabhupāda, after you get bathed. And we will not ask you to do anything exerting. Sometimes only Bhavānanda and I will personally sit you up for a minute only to drink something. And then kavirāja will be here very shortly. Then he can give the advice what to do. We simply want to give one try with this kavirāja. If it doesn't succeed, then we simply... I'll lock my office and we'll simply chant hari-nāma. But as we are a little hopeful... That is our... We can't stop being hopeful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I was seeing a picture of Your Divine Grace sitting in a vyāsāsana in New York, handing the initiation beads to some devotee. You had a very big smile as if you were joking with him. So I was just thinking how nice it was, that you could again be able to sit and talk nicely with all the devotees. So like that, hope is there in our hearts.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, we'll make sure that you're not made uncomfortable, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and not disturbed in any way. And we won't be the cause of any disturbance. So we'll come after a short time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (harmonium playing) (break)

Bhagatji: Sometimes when I used to come you were sleeping. I'll sit for one hour and then went out.

Prabhupāda: Things are going on.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm in the next room in case you want me. Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Śatadhanya Mahārāja are here. We'll keep everything quiet for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: ...everything was together. But when you add up our sales, whole zones put together, then they're as big as New York and the other areas now. They are doing nicely. They've also brought you some gifts, one sweater and some warm socks and a scarf for the winter here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: So keep it. I shall use it.

Pañca-draviḍa: He also brought one wooden bowl for eating. They brought one wooden plate for eating also.

Bhakti-caru: Where did they put them at?

Pañca-draviḍa: In the office.

Bhakti-caru: That's all right. Someone has got to go and get it.

Room Conversation -- November 13-14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bon Mahārāja: Last time they told me in New York... Your press was in New York, and they were shifting it to Los Angeles. About two hundred brahmacārīs were working there and they told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's in Los Angeles.

Bon Mahārāja: Los Angeles. Well, it is all Mahāprabhu's will, and Prabhupāda is our...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Los Angeles is godown... (Bengali) Howrah Station. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a picture of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I have a picture of that BBT godown.

Prabhupāda: Show him.

Page Title:New York (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:18 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=142, Let=0
No. of Quotes:142