New York (Conversations 1976 Jul - Dec)

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Rāmeśvara: Some ambulance. Somebody is sick. Right now in New York City there is a big strike. The people who work in the hospitals, they refuse to work. They want more salary.

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Price raising, they want all comforts.

Rāmeśvara: So if someone is sick they will not take him to the hospital because there is no one to take care of him there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This school is called Amsterdam School, Prabhupāda, because this is Amsterdam Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: Yesterday there was a big parade in New York City, all people who are against abortion, they were marching. The U.S. is having a presidential election, so the Democratic party, they are having their convention in New York City to decide who will be their candidate for President. So all these people were marching to try to convince him to be against abortion. But he has already said he will not take any issue, he will not take a stand, because it is too controversial.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: The Presidential candidate. He will not give his opinion.

Devotee: Who is that, Reagan?

Rāmeśvara: No, Carter. They are unwilling to give their opinion because then someone may not vote for them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's too controversial. Most people are for abortion.

Prabhupāda: Why they are for abortion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it gives them unlimited room for sense gratification. The whole business is...

Prabhupāda: So why not become brahmacārī?

Devotee (1): They want to dance without paying the piper. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I tell them "Birth control by self control." That is our program.

Prabhupāda: Besides that, why birth control?

Prabhupāda: Don't waste time. You stop this. If you imitate a madman, then you become mad. (laughter) Don't try to talk on behalf of these madmen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The principle is there, though, that there must be a father and a mother.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, in New York City, many of these big buildings have courtyards, and in the courtyards they have purchased sculpture. So all the sculpture is abstract. They are against form; they are all impersonalists. And they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have these gigantic structures. All over New York City you see them. They have no form.

Prabhupāda: That is a form. The structure itself has a form.

Rāmeśvara: But it's abstract.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not ab..., it is form.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not personal, that's what he means.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a form of their imagination, that's all. Not standard form, but it is a form. They want to make everything formless with form. That means they cannot avoid form.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...reason they cannot keep this park neat and clean? In other cities they keep.

Ādi-keśava: They cannot pay the workers.

Prabhupāda: How is that? In America, city, New York, they cannot pay?

Hari-śauri: New York almost went bankrupt.

Devotee (1): They have mismanaged the whole thing.

Hari-śauri: They had big strikes last year or early this year. They wouldn't clear the garbage away, and the whole city was piled up with garbage everywhere.

Devotee (2): Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says in this Kali-yuga they are all lazy, misguided.

Prabhupāda: So much drinking, they must be lazy.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So much drinking excessively. Drinking means laziness.

Prabhupāda: The best thing is they should be educated to become gentlemen. Keep guns, but they may not improperly use them.

Rāmeśvara: When New York City had to start borrowing money from the banks, the banks became very powerful. They were able to control the city government and get many favors.

Prabhupāda: What is that favor?

Rāmeśvara: They get special contracts, concession rates, and they are able to get their men appointed to important government positions. Also, in the national government, the government of the United States has to always borrow money from banks. There is something called National Debt. Hundreds of billions of dollars they owe the banks, the United States government, to support all their different programs.

Prabhupāda: National Debt.

Prabhupāda: So there was no difficulty. I got from other friends.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So when you moved down to the loft...

Prabhupāda: That boy, I gave him, Haridāsa, who was in San Francisco?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this Paul Murray... Haridāsa left New York, he went to San Francisco. His name was something else. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a steel factory. This is near the Ratha-yātrā carts.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Steel factory, but very good house?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Paul Murray, he was the boy that went crazy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was LSD man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: LSD man. He tried to attack you.

Prabhupāda: Not attack, but he showed some ferocious mood. I thought...

Devotee (1): Very dangerous.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: This is building construction?

Devotee (1): Appears so. Telephone company.

Prabhupāda: The Bell?

Devotee (1): New York Telephone Company.

Prabhupāda: In Pittsburgh... I was living in Butler, and a girl took me to Pittsburgh. So I saw at that time that she had to pay two dollars for parking.

Hari-śauri: This is why we get so much noise. Every time there's a call, when they come from here, and we're only just on the next block.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's good for us also. If there's any trouble in the temple, they come right away, and they are friendly.

Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Jayānanda brings them.

Prabhupāda: Prasādam will conquer everyone.

Rāmeśvara: That is how we get all our men to join.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The brain must be little clear to understand what is the value of life, why I am suffering, if is there any remedial measure, how can I take it. That is brain. And if the brain is used only to find out where is sense gratification, where is sex, where is food, where is shelter, where is money? Then, that is, that business is being done by the hogs and dogs. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save people from this dogs' and hogs' life and to come to the real platform of understanding the value of life. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the aim of life. Simply by false hopes they are trying to adjust things with material effects. That will never do that. Durāśayā. Durāśayā means it is useless hope. It cannot be. Just like we practically see that the, here in New York City, American people are very rich and intelligent, but they cannot stop this fire which is unwanted. They cannot stop it. That is not possible. Because they are living very high, 300 feet high or more than that, you are not safe still. You are still in the same danger. Because you are living in big, big skyscraper building, it does not mean that you will not die. Death is there also, birth, death, old age, disease, the real problems of life. It does not mean that because we have advanced in so-called material civilization, you have avoided birth, death. Even big, big scientists who gave us so many big, big inventions, but still they died. They could not invent something which will protect them from death, that at the time of death, give me this pill so that I will not die and I'll go on giving you more scientific advance. That is not possible. What is your question?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You are already accustomed

Mr. Kallman: I'm always accustomed.

Prabhupāda: So, how are you?

Mr. Kallman: Very good, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are now in New York?

Mr. Kallman: I live here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. No, you live I know. Sometimes you go out.

Mr. Kallman: Much traveling, but we've come for the parade.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Mr. Kallman: Down Fifth Avenue.

Prabhupāda: So often you come to the temple?

Mr. Kallman: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And for manufacturing the paper they are cutting so many trees and committing sinful life.

Rāmeśvara: The scientists report that by throwing all this garbage in the ocean they kill many fish. Here in New York there is one beach called Coney Island, and no fish can live near the shore, they are all dying.

Prabhupāda: Why they are so sympathetic to the fish? Because they will eat it. No? They are thinking that "We shall eat the fish, and they are dying." Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Do you want your hat, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? No. This is ventilation. (laughter) You are feeling cold? Mister? You are feeling cold?

Child: No.

Devotee (1): It's that same lady again.

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we went to one other part of the park down there, and we found they have a big statue of a dog there, and it says "In honor of the dogs." Some sled-dogs that came and saved some people in Alaska in 1926, a big statue of a dog.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...cold.

Prabhupāda: He has got some? Children are not affected. Old men are affected. For children, if there is diarrhea, it is good, but old man, if there is diarrhea he is going to die. (break) ...evolution of man, what about the trees?

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars and they cannot use it.

Ādi-keśava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalk because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Devotee (1): Left.

Prabhupāda: They have no estimation, that "So far we can come, then we'll fall"?

Bali-mardana: It all depends upon the foundation.

Rādhāvallabha: In New York they can build them so high because the entire island of Manhattan is made out of rock, and there's never any earthquakes.

Bali-mardana: Not yet, anyway.

Jayādvaita: As far as I know, they think that they can make them bigger and bigger without any limit.

Devotee: Four hundred stories (break)

Prabhupāda: And fell down later on.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. (dog barking) The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṅge calo, ei mātra bhikhā cāi. "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come here. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Yes, I have. You translated all of those. (pause) (break) ...I wonder if you could tell me how you came to founding the movement here in the United States.

Prabhupāda: I was ordered by my spiritual master to do this work, so on his order I came in 1965. That is the beginning of this. I came alone with no help, no money. Somehow or other (laughs) I started.

Interviewer: How did you attract people? You landed in New York...

Prabhupāda: My attraction is this chanting. That's all.

Interviewer: Did you stand on street corners and chant?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I had no magic. Just like others. They say some..., show some magic. I never showed any magic.

Interviewer: No, I understand that.

Bali-mardana: Thompkins Park.

Prabhupāda: By Thompkins Park I was chanting, and these boys gradually came. First picture was published by the New York Times. Then we started branches in San Francisco, in Montreal, Boston. And then Los Angeles. In this way...

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: This is the parade that it's based on.

Rāmeśvara: This is a photograph of what takes place in India every year. It's a traditional festival in India, we are bringing it to New York. We've got our permits and everything.

Prabhupāda: We have already got in San Francisco, in Chicago...

Rāmeśvara: Philadelphia.

Prabhupāda: In Philadelphia.

Rāmeśvara: In London.

Prabhupāda: London.

Sudāmā: Melbourne.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne.

Hari-śauri: Paris we're beginning also.

Prabhupāda: This year?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: First year Paris.

Hari-śauri: This is our festivals that we've begun in the West based on the one on the front there.

Prabhupāda: You can take that book.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You can take that book.

Interviewer: You are participating in it, are you not?

Prabhupāda: Somewhere when I have opportunity I participate, otherwise they do it.

Rāmeśvara: In other words, Prabhupāda doesn't attend every festival all over the world.

Interviewer: Will you attend the one here in New York?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I go.

Interviewer: How do you choose, you are responsible for the organization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Are you the one who chooses who runs each center, who is responsible in each temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our program is to open centers in every village, every town, to propagate Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Interviewer: And you choose the leaders, or Kṛṣṇa does and tells you, how does that work?

Prabhupāda: No, I have been chosen by my spiritual master.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They can wait or one of them may come. So what is the news?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The karmīs decided they want to have a meeting.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that GBC meeting.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, no. My karmī friends, on the 19th in New York.

Prabhupāda: Oh, your business.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They always decide on perfect timing.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. I shall prefer to see the Trans-India first, because they will give some publicity to our movement.

Rādhāvallabha: So we'll tell the doctor to please wait?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All right, he has gone to where?

Rādhāvallabha: He may bring the doctor up first.

Prabhupāda: All right, let him come. So who is the chief man dealing with this, who is the chief secretary, all these visitors?

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Poughkeepsie. Where it is?

Indian man: It is hundred miles north of New York. I work there. I am an engineer, and I have been trying to spread Kṛṣṇa conscious movement of yours, trying to teach from your Gītā to the Indian community, and I have been slowly trying to get American people also involved. And, as I see, more and more American people are now coming in. And in fact, those people who are very steadfast, who come to attend my class, are the American people. I am very glad to see that they are taking very great interest. And...

Prabhupāda: Indians are not taking so much.

Indian man: No, sir, I'm...

Prabhupāda: Indians are baḍa sāheb(?) (laughs)

Indian man: Ah. You see they have been going to...

Prabhupāda: Ready?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So you suggest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it depends on a number of things. One thing is your rest. After taking massage you take prasādam, and then your resting period. Another thing is how long you want to ride along on the cart. It depends on... I think it should depend on... I can't... No one can make that decision. We're agreeable to anything that you suggest. Devotees are enlivened simply that you're here in New York with us.

Prabhupāda: So at two o'clock you start?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: You want me at the starting point?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We want you to do simply what you feel would be best.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the best? Starting point, my presence required?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's not a question of required. I mean that's a very exciting time, you know, but I wouldn't say it's required. We're going to start. One way or the other, we have to start the parade. It's exciting at that time, but you could also join midway. Suppose you could also join at Thirty-fourth Street instead of Fifty-ninth Street. Halfway is about Thirty-fourth Street. So you could join there.

Prabhupāda: That will be better.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is already there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I asked, I took a poll, census poll of about six or seven GBC men, including Kīrtanānanda, Rāmeśvara, Bali-mardana, so many men who know New York, and they all thought that if you join the parade at Twenty-third Street...

Prabhupāda: Twenty-third. At what time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, it'll be... It should be at about 3:15, like that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then it will be nice. Because the whole parade is about fifty-four blocks, and you'll be riding for about nineteen blocks. It means your ride will take about forty-five minutes.

Prabhupāda: So what time I'll going to start?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From here?

Prabhupāda: Somebody will come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think I will probably come. Kīrtanānanda will also...

Prabhupāda: At what time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they've been staying here.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no difficulty to accommodate them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Nārāyaṇa told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, Prabhupāda, I really feel like I should concentrate lot of my preaching here in New York.

Prabhupāda: Do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you think?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Preaching is required, here or there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You once said, "A good businessman, if he knows how to do it, he can make more money sitting in one place..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Money is not our aim. Our aim is how people will understand Kṛṣṇa.

Bali-mardana: He is just using that as an analogy for preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That if you have a good place, many people can be attracted, as many as moving around to many places.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja was in favor of preaching in the city because you can get many men.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we will double the amount of people, promise.

Bali-mardana: And double the prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will double everything if you are here, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. I can stay here also. I like especially New York, because I started the movement here. And because there are so many branches, if I go they become enlivened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, right, just like we are enlivened.

Prabhupāda: Everyone wants.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone wants you to come.

Prabhupāda: That is natural.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Question of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: New York was your second home after India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I say fatherland. India, motherland; this is fatherland.

Bali-mardana: It is so nice that now in New York they are receiving you so nicely, this parade. Everyone is turning out to greet you. You are like the local boy who made good. So now they are receiving you very grandly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, continue this program. People will be attracted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that we could make a point to have many big festivals here each year, not just this one, but many.

Prabhupāda: Yes, at least three, four you can do. On Janmāṣṭamī, one; Gaura Pūrṇimā; for Śrī Rāma-navamī; and one, Ratha-yātrā.

Bali-mardana: We can do New York for the spring, summer and fall.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Be careful that termite may not attack.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I'll make a note.

Bali-mardana: There are not many termites in New York. We are fortunate. In Hawaii there are many termites. But here you don't usually have to protect wood against termites. Here the wintertime kills them. It gets so cold.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very cold.

Hari-śauri: That kills them.

Bali-mardana: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There were devotees from Miami, Gainesville, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Boston, Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, Los Angeles, Vancouver, South America—all over South America, I think. A gigantic turnout of devotees. Very international group.

Bali-mardana: This could be like Lord Caitanya used to invite all His devotees to come and see Him at Ratha-yātrā...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: We have to perfect it now. We have learned that many..., certain things did not go as perfectly as they could have, so now we are going to repair and make it perfect.

Prabhupāda: Now, by this, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is advertised. Apart from all over the world, at least in New York it is, that "There is some movement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prominent movement. Fifth Avenue. We were in charge of Fifth Avenue for one day. Practically we were controlling the Fifth Avenue today.

Hari-śauri: Lord Jagannātha was.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If that side we get some small house, so that after going, eight days Jagannātha can remain there and festival going on, and then in the next week return...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How small a house?

Prabhupāda: Just to keep Jagannātha.

Bali-mardana: September is very pleasant in New York. I think you remember.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These months are very nice. Somehow, if there was some way... I mean, we would preach so hard. At least sixteen hours a day we could work to serve you. I know I would not want to rest even. There must be some way that we can convince you to stay here.

Bali-mardana: Because actually when you come here, you are preaching to millions. These reporters that have come, through them you have been preaching to millions.

Prabhupāda: What about the reporters? They have published something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it'll come.

Bali-mardana: The transcripts have been sent to them, so within the next week they should be coming.

Hari-śauri: I think one or two were waiting until after Ratha-yātrā to give a report on the festival as well.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There were a lot of reporters, and they said that next year... They told us next year they're going to have full television cameras. We're going to have to erect a news, er... What is that called? Press, not a table, but a platform where they're going to put their cameras, and their reporters will sit above the whole crowd. They want to cover it, full. They were very amazed to see such a gigantic festival in New York itself. They never imagined such a thing in New York.

Prabhupāda: The Christians cannot organize. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: Especially New York, the people are ready for it. Like today, they have taken part very nicely. Even the policemen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.

Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.

Hari-śauri: Well, it's Sunday evening. It's a bit difficult. He has to drive around in a car till he finds somewhere.

Bali-mardana: 7-UP? You want 7-UP? I can get it.

Hari-śauri: I sent Śravaṇānanda out to get it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the Bloopie's they can get it. Rādhāvallabha got it.

Bali-mardana: Not a can, though, just in a cup.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do they get it into the cup? Buy the whole bottle.

Prabhupāda: Bottle or... Bottle or can.

Bali-mardana: This store has it... They have the machine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about Ninth Avenue? There's all those shops. (whispering in background about 7-UP)

Bali-mardana: He already went to get it?

Prabhupāda: If the government is going against our movement, then I'll have to stay. There is no alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that your preaching here in New York... The thing is the preaching...

Prabhupāda: More important.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's more important.

Prabhupāda: I know that.

Bali-mardana: In India they pay more attention to the building than to the person.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Bali-mardana: Our building can go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, Prabhupāda, we have never... I mean, you started this movement here in New York, but this is the first time that we have a proper facility.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the last ten years there was no facility.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda. That's why if you concentrated here, just by your presence, even if you only spoke to a few important gentlemen... We have so many senior men here. We could do wonderful things. Within two or three months we could expand our movement so broadly here in New York, I think the whole country would take note. I really feel that there is a great potential.

Prabhupāda: That is right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why I'm not very eager to...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is fact. Let me see what Kṛṣṇa desires. The roof is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: For open air.

Hari-śauri: It's very good for massage.

Prabhupāda: And the view of the river is very healthy. If you can see the river from your house, it is to be understood that quarter is very nice. If you can see sky from your room, then it is understood the room is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in the millions. It's the largest in New York. So they gave us the center section.

Bali-mardana: That's the big, the most popular section. This side.

Prabhupāda: "Fifth Avenue, Where East Meets West." Very good idea. Very good idea. Very nice.

Bali-mardana: The other pictures, I think some are from the Olympics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very prominent. The center section is, next to the front page, the center section is very..., the most popular page in the paper, because it has interesting pictures.

Prabhupāda: You can send one, this cutting, to Mr. Bhajaj, "Fifth Avenue, Where East Meets West." Very good.

Hari-śauri: Send one to Māyāpur as well?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You can send to many place, but this title is very nice. This is the point, this is the point. East, as I say always, the lame man meets the blind man. Together they do wonderful. And different they cannot do anything. He is blind, he is lame. But they join together, Indian culture and American money, they will save the whole world. Here is the... Money required. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And they have created a civilization, wine, woman, gambling and meat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's what it said. "The multicolored floats contrast with Fifth Avenue's concrete canyon as parade passes Thirty-fourth Street yesterday." Here it says, "An idyllic mood in saffron robes."

Prabhupāda: Everything is approved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, highly approved. Then there's another, New York Times.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not very(?) important.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Beautiful photograph.

Bali-mardana: "East Meets West in Hare Kṛṣṇa..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Feat."

Bali-mardana: "...Feat."

Hari-śauri: Fete.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fete.

Prabhupāda: You must purchase some copies. We shall send to India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is not, it's not bad, but it's not so accurate. "In size it was dwarfed by 'Operation Sale.' In popular concern it was outweighed by the Democratic National Convention. But for hundreds of Hare Kṛṣṇa followers, including many Indian immigrants to New York, yesterday's Ratha-yātrā festival was by far the most important event in an eventful month. Pulling three brightly-colored chariots down Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, the religious group's adherents were celebrating one of the oldest holy days of the Indian calendar, the feast of Jagannātha, the Lord of the Universe, according to Kṛṣṇa doctrine. Most of the participants in the parade were young Westerners, followers from as far away as Caracas and Montreal. But the crowd included hundreds of Indians who brought the basic Kṛṣṇa faith with them from Bombay and Calcutta."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that nice. "Like many other immigrant groups who preserved their forms of worship once they came to America, the Indians who watched or participated in the parade were pleased to see that they could keep the faith even in New York City." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These rascals, let them come, they become baḍa sāheb.

Bali-mardana: Become what?

Prabhupāda: Baḍa sāheb.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Gurudāsa: That's good. It means that we're not a light cult. It means we have a great tradition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's actually good.

Gurudāsa: They're recognizing that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'It's surprising that you find this right in New York City. It's our way of life,' said Nagan Patel, a civil engineer from Jersey City, who immigrated from Bombay. 'We love New York City and America. It's the most beautiful place in the world. No other country will give such freedom for our own ceremony.' "

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.

Prabhupāda: When another came?

Rāmeśvara: Not in the same way. This city has so many, they have so many different groups, religious groups and minority groups from other parts of the world, they call it a melting pot. So they accept us because they've accepted so many others, the Puerto Ricans, the blacks, so similarly they are accepting us.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: This city, the people of this city.

Prabhupāda: America.

Rāmeśvara: New York.

Prabhupāda: New York.

Rāmeśvara: In other places they consider us to be very foreign, alien. But here there are so many foreigners, so it fits right in.

Prabhupāda: This is the Tenth Street? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Amsterdam Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Do that(?).

Rāmeśvara: So they can do that? (break) ...Pañcamī, where they carry the goddess of fortune on an opulent palanquin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, New York doesn't have a name. We have to give it some name. We call Los Angeles as New Dvārakā. Here it's just New York. (break)

Rāmeśvara: (whispering) Rādhāvallabha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...monkey.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha is your faithful servant.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Hṛdayānanda: The Dutch were defeated by the British, and the British took New York.

Prabhupāda: Yo bala maluk taya (?): "Might is right."(break) ...right is going on now also, but under some plea, United Nations. Where is unity? (break) Sometimes I stayed in this house. Eighty-seventh Street? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not Eighty-seventh, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tripurāri: Seventy-second and Amsterdam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...station like this.

Passerby: Bless your heart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, he said, "Bless your heart."

Passerby: What's the scoop?

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa? How about Christ Jesus?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How about Hare Kṛṣṇa as father?

Passerby: Father? His father? 'Fraid not, fella. You'll meet your father.

Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.

Prabhupāda: This is Amsterdam? Cross street? No.

Car Conversation -- July 21, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You think that's faster?

Ādi-keśava: Yes, it goes right under... (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...people of New York are appreciating, Prabhupāda, how you came here alone and now you have a big building with many followers. Actually the people are aware, very much aware of how you started this movement in New York.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And were struggling personally. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...life there is struggle. Without struggling there is no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not be, try to avoid struggle.

Prabhupāda: No. Because we have got preaching point of view. Preaching means struggling. If it was simply bhajana, you can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) "There's one credit that I have. I was never a lazy fellow."

Prabhupāda: Yes, throughout my life. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: From Vṛndāvana?

Pṛthu-putra: From Bombay. I was last in Bombay.

Bhagavān: You have been like this for some time?

Prabhupāda: It has begun from New York, eh?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, you had kidney trouble in New York, and then immediately after that, coughing and.... When we came on the plane it grew worse.

Prabhupāda: One doctor came, he gave me three bags of tablets.

Hari-śauri: He wanted to give you five. He gave us five different prescriptions.

Prabhupāda: I did not take anything, tablet. Rather, what one I was taking, I have stopped that also.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: I see you've done new books. You've been so busy, there's so many books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are already fifty-four, and another at least thirty books I have to finish before my death. (laughs) That I am.... Give him a puri. Where is Ravi Shankar?

George Harrison: He's in.... I think he's in New York. He'll be here the first of August, and then I think he's...

Prabhupāda: He has got his house there? In New York?

George Harrison: No, just a house in Benares. Benares. He doesn't have anything. He just stays in hotels.

Prabhupāda: I thought in Washington somebody told me that George Washing..., George Harrison has got his house here.

George Harrison: Yes, he had a little house here, but he...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got your house in Washington?

George Harrison: No.

Prabhupāda: No. Now we can begin.

George Harrison: Okay, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: Well, I don't know. I think the whole world's changing. Somebody said it's the pollution, leaves so much..., there's so much of the oceans now with polluted and with oil on the top, there's not so much evaporation anymore.

Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudāsa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupāda: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupāda: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Gurudāsa: They bring grains or something like that.

Prabhupāda: We had a very gorgeous Ratha-yātrā ceremony in New York last Sunday.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Sunday, eighteenth.

Pusta Kṛṣṇa: A week ago yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Give...

Gurudāsa: We fed about ten thousand that day.

Prabhupāda: Cauliflower. Take little.

George Harrison: I can't finish. (laughter) I'm trying to finish one so I can start on the next. I was sick also lately. I had something, I went yellow. I had jaundice. Don't know why, just had food poisoning or something, and it affected my liver.

Prabhupāda: Who cooks for you?

George Harrison: Sometimes me, sometimes, ah.... I don't know, I think we'd had some Chinese food.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you should not take.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: Seventh Canto, Part Three.

Hari-śauri: They bring the first two copies to Śrīla Prabhupāda wherever he is. This we got in New York just before we left.

Gurudāsa: It's right off the press.

Prabhupāda: These pictures are made by our boys.

George Harrison: Yes, beautiful.

Prabhupāda: They are learning more and more.

Hari-śauri: This one is very good because it explains the breakdown of the social positions.

George Harrison: Hm?

Hari-śauri: The varṇāśrama system. It's very good.

Prabhupāda: This instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was never given before in the Western countries. This is the first time.

George Harrison: Yes.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Hari-śauri: And then when we tell them that this is not your business, they ask us, "Why aren't you breaking bricks?"

Prabhupāda: You are punished. You are being punished in this way. Actually, I saw in New York, big, big building, they are breaking, again, another skyscraper. "No, I have business. Breaking the bricks," that's all. They think this is very good business. Once constructed, again break it. As child, children, they make a sand house and break it again. This is the occupation.

Harikeśa: But there's nothing else to do for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difficulty. Now see, there is no soul. Why no soul? How foolish it is. "We believe." You believe something nonsense, it has to be accepted? Where is the difference of analogy?

Harikeśa: (laughs) They have to give up.

Prabhupāda: Analogy, the more the points of similarities are there, it is perfect. That is the logical conclusion. Everything is there similar, why you should deny the other? How rascaldom it is. Common sense.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: It's Seven, Three. There was only your copies available at the moment, and we gave it to George Harrison.

Prabhupāda: And you could not secure any more.

Hari-śauri: The only other copy is in New York.

Prabhupāda: Any other Bhāgavata? Just see. Reference book must be always there. This is the principle of Gurukula. Now from this platform, on this understanding you have to organize.

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying that there are mainly three principles to learn: how to be obedient, how to know, read your books and be self-controlled. So that's what I explained to the teachers, that they should do that.

Prabhupāda: Guru says there are four principles to be followed, they should be taught in that way. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. Guru says that you chant at least sixteen, that should be taught. Risen early, rise early in the morning, that should be taught. So whatever guru says, you have to teach them perfectly, from childhood; then there will be no deviation when they are grown-up.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I also thought of a way to help the children remember the Kṛṣṇa book stories easier. It was... You started that long time ago with Madhupuri, you asked her to make the Kṛṣṇa book into a poem. That was a long time ago in New York, then she didn't do it...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa book is not difficult to be understood by...

Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking if we make into poem and put music and they sing it, then they can remember...

Prabhupāda: That you can do, to make it understandable easily. It is already easy. If you want to make more easy, then do that.

Jyotirmāyī: Okay. You also allowed... You said that some parents can keep their children with them and teach themselves.

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That may be, you may be a teacher, but you'll remain only a worker. That is another thing. Just like Dronācārya, he taught, he remained a teacher. So we can become a teacher of a particular subject matter, but that does not mean you should be worker. Still, there are many professors, they are teacher, they are not worker. But if the teachers are available, why you should become a teacher? Let them teach. We have to save our time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, this, in the modern world they have invented so many varieties of occupations unnecessarily, to develop economic condition. Is it not? But our philosophy is that you cannot develop your economic condition than you are destined to suffer or enjoy. So one should not waste his time for so-called development of economic condition. He should utilize his time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was not possible in any other form of life. When we had cat's and dog's life, tree's life, we could not do that, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we have got human form of life, we should fully utilize it for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should we waste our time for economic development? Economic development is not possible. Then every work, every city, they are trying to develop this economic condition, but they're struggling. Why they word it of "struggle for existence" is there? It is not possible. Why there are varieties of social position? Everyone could come on the same standard. That is not possible. Anywhere you go, the three classes of men, upper class, middle class and lower class, is there. Is there any country where there is not these three classes, only the upper class? Is there any country? Then what is the use? Anywhere you'll go, you'll find this upper class, middle class and lower class. In the beginning, I thought that America, everyone is richer class. So when I came I saw the three classes are already there. The lower class, although the country has good facilities not to become lower class, still, voluntarily they are hippies, lower class. They are lying on the street. Although he has got very good opportunity to become first class, but he is lying on the street. Why? What is answer? British Empire, London, one is lying on the bench. New York, lying on the bench. There is no sufficient clothing? Why? Actually, he can live very comfortably, but why he's living in that condition? What is answer?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: It's his nature.

Prabhupāda: No, he has to live in that way. That is his destiny. You cannot change it by artificial ways. Even if he has got all the facilities, he will have to live like that. That is nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is... So therefore there is no use of so-called improvement. And you cannot do it. This is a fact. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Find out this verse. Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary. Your standard of happiness and distress must be there because you are destined by the laws of nature. You have to suffer although you are born in America. In New York you can get very comfortable life there; still, you have lie down on the bench, lie down. Although you are born of a rich man's family, you have to become hippies, lie down here. Who can check this? What is that law. Do they know it? But there is a law. There will be a first class, second class, third class, fourth class. You cannot check it. Huh? New York City? So cared for? Nasty road, streets. And always, every moment-dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung, gu gu gu gu gu gu gu-fire. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Fire is blazing. Despite all arrangement, fire is blazing. How can you stop it? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibaniśi hiya jvale. The blazing fire of poison is always going on. Taribāre nā kāinu upāya. And one has to make ways how to get out of this fire. That is intelligence. Read that.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: And if you do it very carefully, then you'll never get disease. Take simple food, neat and clean, you'll not get disease. So everything depends on eating to keep the health proper. But these things can be simplified when the life is simple. If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied. But if you depend on yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, you haven't got to depend on others, then you can do timely. Now we have to go fifty miles at least to attend office. In your country at least, this is the system. They are coming from Long Island, Liberty Island. In New York I have seen. Three, four hours to go to work. And again three, four hours to come to home. And work there eight hours. Then what is value? He's shattered. He has no other solace than wine, and he has no other culture. No family, dog friend (laughter) and television idea, that's all. What his life? Every man has got a dog friend because he has no family. Men, women, and television, engagement, I have seen it, all this, in New York.

Hari-śauri: If they do go out, it's just to go and get drunk.

Prabhupāda: And still, our landlord in 26 Second Avenue, if there is anything wrong in the apartment, he would personally do it. He could spare money to call a worker. He was alone. I don't think he had any dog, but he was always seeing the television, and when there was some complaint, he would come and work on it. He's landlord. And so many tenant, there is complaint always. Old house. That house was not very good, very old house.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They are finding something new

Hari-śauri: The Times of India gave a very good report of New York Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: You have got it?

Hari-śauri: It's in the room, I thought you'd seen it.

Bhagavān: They cannot publish anything bad about us. They try to find, sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Seems they're always carrying little snippets of information about what we're doing. Before there was a report about the restaurants, and here there's two reports about..., one about the Jagannātha festival in New York and one about the proposed Vedic university in Kurukṣetra. These were on consecutive days. The one about New York, it says, "Washington, July the 19th." That's where it's reported from. It says, "New York saw on Sunday an unusual spectacle of three brightly colored chariots being pulled along the city's prestigious Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, a distance of about five kilometers, by members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa group. The rathas, built in Orissan style with giant wooden wheels, attracted large crowds of spectators all along the route. It was a novel experience for the New Yorkers. Many resident Indians who are not members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement enthusiastically gave a hand in the pulling. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were celebrating the feast of Jagannātha in the traditional Indian way. The police and the city administration readily cooperated. In a city that is coming to be known for its tolerance of diverse cultures, chariot processions promise to be an annual event. While a few citizens booed and some altercations were reported, the spectacle was well received by the New Yorkers. 'I think it is great,' the New York Times quoted a man as saying. The person, who identified himself as a visitor to New York and was not a Hare Kṛṣṇa fan, referring to the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, added, 'They are all happy and dancing, and that's what life's all about.' Later a vegetarian feast was served to the admirers."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is the rent?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The rent now it is twelve hundred dollars. But of course everything is now much more expensive. So I was negotiating in New York for better arrangements, because in Iran price is going up and up and up. And I told my company that they should buy one house. And they have agreed. So there is going to be that house, we will buy something like this for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is very nice.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And also we have saved some money, we'll buy a temple also in addition to that.

Prabhupāda: No, this is very nice. Dayānanda, do you like it?

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice place, private, everything is so nice. In winter, what is the temperature?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very cold.

Prabhupāda: Very cold.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: It is living in the material world without become attached to it.

Prabhupāda: No, we have no attachment. We can sit down, in this nice building, we can sit down anywhere. We are not attached to this building; we are attached to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our business. And unconditionally we can push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not that if we don't get a nice building as Atreya Ṛṣi has supplied, then we cannot push on. No. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like I began this movement underneath a tree in New York, Tompkinson Square, what is that?

Devotees: Tompkins Square Park.

Prabhupāda: I used to sit down there. There was no mṛdaṅga. A small dundubi. And I was chanting three hours—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And people used to come.

Nava-yauvana: In a very bad neighborhood. Very low-class neighborhood.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Low-class, high-class, we don't mind. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That 26 Second Avenue also not very good neighborhood.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: There is a method. There is a method...

Prabhupāda: Suppose there is little success, but in comparison to the money expended, that success is little. Just like I, in the beginning I advertised my books in the Times, New York Times. They charged me sixty-three dollars, a small space. So there was inquiry, not order, three inquiries. Not even order. I have got this experience. For me, at that time, sixty-three dollars were too much. So I did not get any response. That is my practical experience. I got three inquiries, not even order. But the Times, New York Times, they have got millions of customers and millions of readers, but I got three inquiries.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To find those few potential devotees that are in, let us assume, in New York, big city, there were a few potential devotees, and materially speaking, it may be very difficult to find them. But when the devotee is sincere, Kṛṣṇa will give opportunity that those people will be found, even if they are one in that big city. Kṛṣṇa will arrange that they will find a pure devotee if they are sincere. So no material advertising will accomplish the task.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that it is only for the fortunate persons. But we must present. Only the fortunate will come forward. We cannot expect that everyone will come. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. (Bengali) (long pause)

Devotee (1): The idea is that if you work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then you'll get a temple.

Guest: Yes.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only... Eight dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?

Prabhupāda: Seven dollars. (laughter)

Devotee (1): Seven dollars.

Dayānanda: But I think you got that from selling the Bhāgavatams.

Prabhupāda: That extra. We brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. And you were not allowed to take more than forty rupees. That is same now. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandia. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange, three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there, (indistinct) seven dollars. (Hindi)... (break) ...strongly by chance?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why piece? Take big land. Make something gorgeous. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Although He likes to live in the village, but He is Dvārakādhīśa also.

Mr. Patel: It should be big land for the...

Mr. Sahani: Here the land prices are five times what they are in America.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Eh? There?

Mr. Sahani: The price of land here in Tehran is five times what it is in New York.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter)

Mrs. Sahani: Highest, most highest in the world, next to probably Tokyo.

Mr. Sahani: The house which you have seen today is worth two lakhs of dollars. In two lakhs of dollars you can have palace in America.

Prabhupāda: No, not that...

Mr. Sahani: But two lakhs here, you have to have all two lakhs completely in your hand before you can step into this house. Over there with two lakhs you step into the house, a palace of one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayānanda, you know?

Dayānanda: It was two twenty-five, I think. 225,000 dollars.

Prabhupāda: 225,000.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsāhān dhairyāt...

Nava-yauvana: So we are here, if we work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then there we will get a temple. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?

Prabhupāda: Seven dollars.

Nava-yauvana: Seven dollars.

Dayānanda: I think you got that from selling Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is sufficient. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there seven dollars. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Let them be engaged in different ways and earn some money. This incense I taught Gargamuni first.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is better than incense. You teach us the incense also, everything. We will do it.

Prabhupāda: Incense, I first of all taught Gargamuni, the starting was there in New York. Do you know that? And now it has developed very nice.

Pradyumna: The largest in the world.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like us to... We have, this temple has some dakṣiṇā for you. How would you like me to do it? Today is Thursday. Would you like it in what form? Would you like us to invest it for you here, or give you the cash?

Prabhupāda: If you give me the interest, eighteen percent, I'll utilize it for Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I shall... Yes, that's fine.

Prabhupāda: No, purchase one small book, like passbook. So you become my banker, I deposit with you. You receive it and send the interest, that's all. I make you banker. That's all. There is no botheration. You become banker, you send the interest. Now how you are utilizing, you know, I don't bother. But if I get the interest, then I think it is all right. What is it? Is it all right? Simple? So just purchase one small passbook. And... You have got that passbook? Or you...?

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We are distributing millions in English.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We got a new import permit to import books for five lakhs. I think I wrote that to you. And also the government is going to let us...

Prabhupāda: I saw your wife in New York.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. She's in Dallas now. Also the government is going to give us permission to import paper now, and I have already arranged to get samples of Japanese paper. So this will make our quality very good. The government likes our printing in India. So that's why they gave me this new license. Because I said, "As we import and sell, we print more in India," so they like that.

Prabhupāda: What is the temperature here?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Temperature? What's the temperature about? Twenty-nine degrees centigrade.

Driver: It is about ninety-five. Ninety, ninety-five.

Hari-śauri: Ninety-five!

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How was it in Iran?

Hari-śauri: Nice.

Prabhupāda: Iran night, very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was there a year ago. I've gone to Tehran.

Prabhupāda: In the morning also it is very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You go on the morning walk now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I heard?

Prabhupāda: No, not...

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda can't climb up stairs. Once he goes upstairs then he'll stay.

Prabhupāda: What about the lift here?

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Fifteen hundred on?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ratha-yātrā in Ahmedabad. Now we are distributing these books for one rupee each or 1.50 in Vṛndāvana because now we've got the cost of printing down to sixty paisa...

Prabhupāda: Our Ratha-yātrā in New York was very successful.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I saw in the New York Times. I went to the American Embassy in Delhi and I saw "East Meets West" that was the heading, and there were picture, and Daily News had it on the first page.

Hari-śauri: Middle page.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: First page.

Hari-śauri: Center pages.

Prabhupāda: Three chariots, very gorgeous.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Still, six lakhs or six hundred. No, I say this is unique in the history. Now we have got... we are going to print, next our printing program... Bring it from Harikeśa. I am being surprised. Fifty thousand, one lakh, five hundred thousand each item.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Each item. In Ahmedabad there is a very religious person who was not becoming life member at all. Without seeing the balance sheet and this and that. And I told him, "What do you mean by balance sheet? Only money matters? If ten thousand foreigners are being converted and they are following this religion and this culture, everything, is it not part of the balance sheet? Only rupees and paisas you want to see, then that's a different matter. Here the people are chanting every day sixteen rounds, they have left so many bad vices, they are propagating all over the world." Then he immediately signed up. He has gone to... He might have met you in New York. Chandrakanti Ravaiwala. He was to come on 8th July in New York. He has gone to America to see his son there.

Prabhupāda: In America, in New York, they have got a very...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very good temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami wrote to me, my friend was also there. Mr. Patetas has met you I think.

Prabhupāda: It is twelve...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Twelve stories.

Prabhupāda: In the middle of downtown.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break)... The devotees who can spare time. First of all, all the devotees, they are also in the training, and if they have to learn another training, it may be very difficult.

Indian man (3): Sir, you would perhaps agree that... (break)

Prabhupāda: That we are doing. Just like in New York we have got stage. So we are playing something from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhāgavata occasionally.

Indian man (1): I saw in New York one month back Rāmāyaṇa-gītā. In the temple I saw the Rāmāyaṇa-gītā. It was really very exciting. My two sons are there in New York, so I took them to the temple. So Your Divine Grace was at that time perhaps busy or something, that I couldn't have the darśana.

Prabhupāda: When I was there you were also there?

Indian man (1): Yes, same day I was leaving for India. So I couldn't have your darśana I just got there. Girirāja told me... (break)

Prabhupāda: What about the car(?) there? But a film project, it can be done, provided it is done in foreign countries. Here everything is expensive and lacking manpower. (break) To make a film it requires huge amount of money.

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In Ananda Bazar.

Hari-śauri: It's that magazine called Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha.

Hari-śauri: We saw it in New York.

Prabhupāda: Somewhere I saw.

Hari-śauri: New York.

Prabhupāda: Very nice article.

Hari-śauri: Yes, about thirteen pages in the magazine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, really.

Hari-śauri: Yes, very long, three quarters of the magazine.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Acyutānanda: That's an income tax form. I pasted these on the back.

Prabhupāda: That C.P.I. member, what does he say?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: It's a place which he's not using. He met you in Bombay. He also visited our centers in Paris and New York. He's a Marwari man, very rich, very nice. He's also donated good sums to the society. So now he wants to meet you, and he wants someone to go there. So I told him we will go and look at it.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: It's in Rajastan.

Prabhupāda: Rajastan? Where? Which side.

Gargamuni: It's near Beekanair. It's with agricultural land and a big house. They said they spent about fifteen lacks on it, marble house. The family is not using it. They have no use. We're getting a lot of offers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: But because of Māyāpur, I have not taken them very seriously, because we already have huge affair in Māyāpur. But if you like, we can see.

Prabhupāda: No, kāca dhun kāca kaphe (?): "If some property is offered, we should take it." That is the... And washed cloth. Kācā dhun kācā kapha (?). If somebody offers you very nicely washed cloth, you should use it. And some property, you must use it. They are... You can utilize this property by inhabiting the persons, if they are inclined to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are rotting outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They may come to live. We are for everyone. So he... Where does he reside, this gentleman?

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this Paramānanda, he is expert. He's very expert.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in New Vrindaban before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he could not keep in line with Kīrtanānanda. (laughs)

Gargamuni: I thought he was in New York farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the New York farm.

Prabhupāda: That is.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in Philadelphia.

Gargamuni: Yes, I heard it is very good there.

Prabhupāda: His wife is... They are making...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Satyabhāmā.

Prabhupāda: Cāpāṭis. When she brought, it was so thick. And "How shall I eat this?" But when I ate it was so nice. Soft and sweet. I ate everything.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is already...

Hari-śauri: Yes. They've taken the best area.

Prabhupāda: I think this leg swelling is gone.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It only came when we were in Iran because of the altitude. Then, as soon as we left, it went away again. That doctor in New York, he said it was because when your blood pressure goes up, then it's difficult for the heart to pump. So then fluid forms in the leg because of the bad blood circulation.

Prabhupāda: That was his diagnosis.

Hari-śauri: Yes. So as soon as we came... Like in New Vrindaban, a little bit high, then again it changes over. But then, as soon as we left, then it stopped again.

Prabhupāda: Then this Mahabaleswar will not be...

Hari-śauri: No. If it's very high, the altitude will not be so good. As soon as we arrived in Iran, immediately the next day the swelling was there. I don't know how high this will be, but New Vrindaban is not so high.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes? (?)

Hari-śauri: I think someone said about 1200 feet, not very much. But that may be because the atmosphere in the hills is a little rarified as well.

Prabhupāda: I had vision of (indistinct)... More than going to the hill (indistinct). It is higher than sea level anyway... Therefore the northern portion of India is called upper. It is very higher than the sea level. It is called upper because it is much higher, very high from the ocean. But I was... Vṛndāvana is also that part of (indistinct). Only Bengal is not upper.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Sunday? What is the

Mahāṁśa: Sunday Chronicle. Deccan Chronicle. The biggest distributed English paper in this area.

Prabhupāda: What is this, Ratha-yātrā?

Hari-śauri: In New York.

Gargamuni: The Ratha-yātrā conquering.

Prabhupāda: I told you Ratha-yātrā, it is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Conquer the world.

Prabhupāda: ...the eyesore of the Communist party.

Hari-śauri: It says underneath, "Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands." That's the caption underneath the picture.

Prabhupāda: Where is it?

Gargamuni: Ratha-yātrā in foreign lands.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa swamis. Read it. Read it.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: Yes, we can walk from here.

Prabhupāda: Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Unless one diverts attention to Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not possible. One must have some business, engagement. Just like in New York as soon as there was electric failure for four hours, so many women became pregnant. Because he has no business in the darkness. But if he was trained up to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, one could utilize the time for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they have not such training. Nobody has such training. So how they will utilize the time? Come on, let us have... Although he knows...

Indian devotee: Especially Prabhupāda, when there is a famine, where there is no more food... They had big famine...

Prabhupāda: Food, that is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the rākṣasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We have got branches in almost all important cities.

Krishna Modi: Ten or fifteen. Let them see so that they may be attracted and they may know each and every thing. Because here we know only by this thing. And then let us advertise about.

Prabhupāda: You take this paper. Make a list of important cities. Now suppose if you go from Delhi. So you can go first to Paris, Geneva, Rome, then London, Amsterdam, Stockholm. Then from London I think New York, Boston, Montreal, Canada. Then you go to the western side, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Vancouver. Go further, Honolulu.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you could go to the Pacific, Australia.

Prabhupāda: Ah yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New Zealand, Sydney.

Prabhupāda: Australia, Melbourne.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You can stop in Japan on the way.

Krishna Modi: Let us have a program, make a program so that some...

Prabhupāda: In every big city...

Krishna Modi: Five or ten, they should go with all their expenses.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is our books are being printed.

Krishna Modi: A very big thing it is. It is marvelous that you have done such a thing. It is proud of India that...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New York devotees just got a twelve story building right in the center and I know the local Hindus they are trying to build a small temple since twenty years and they're not succeeding. And right in the center of New York we have a twelve story building. Now all the Hindus are coming to us.

Prabhupāda: You have got that picture New York temple?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Ratha-yātrā picture? Ratha-yātrā, the New York paper. New York Times, Newsweek, all the Indians came. They said, "East Meets West."

Prabhupāda: Now who has converted so many of... This is one party. (refers to kīrtana going on nearby) Hundreds of parties like this, they are engaged in kīrtana. India government is sending so many professional dancers by paying them from the cultural department and what I am getting? Not a single farthing. And still I am bringing.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Now who has converted so many of... This is one party. (refers to kīrtana going on nearby) Hundreds of parties like this, they are engaged in kīrtana. India government is sending so many professional dancers by paying them from the cultural department and what I am getting? Not a single farthing. And still I am bringing.

Krishna Modi: Ah, Indian culture is... You... Nobody has done these things.

Prabhupāda: The Ratha-yātrā festival, where is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the news of Ratha-yātrā. "New York Celebrates Festival of Chariots." Even at the U.N. conference we were there. They welcomed Vedic... We presented a Vedic reply to the U.N. conference.

Prabhupāda: Wherever possible we are presenting Vedic culture, Indian culture. And I have no support from the government.

Krishna Modi: Let us have.

Prabhupāda: And a professional dancer is going and the government is paying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'd like you to take this because this also has an article at length about our Gurukula system in America.

Prabhupāda: Unless they are appreciating this culture, how they are accepting?

Krishna Modi: It is perfectly right. But they must do it like that.

Prabhupāda: Who will do. Do it... We can give you all information.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: In America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.

Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs that I have trained them and they are dancing. So there are so many things to be done in India but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.

Krishna Modi: Quite. Now let us, we must be active. We must be active.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for the country, for the whole nation.

Krishna Modi: And we will come Vṛndāvana also.

Prabhupāda: Please come. I am there for three weeks.

Krishna Modi: How many rupees per day for three days?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have about a thirty-room guest house in Vṛndāvana.

Paramahaṁsa: You bring eighty persons with you, make nice arrangements.

Prabhupāda: If you want sir, that is charge. We charge.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. I, actually, now it is little troublesome for me to travel all the year.

Indian man (3): You are just gone from (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Rest, if I rest then there may be... Because I am dealing with all neophytes. If I don't keep them alive by personal presence... Still they are doing nice. I have appointed twenty secretaries all over the world. I am training them. They are managing. Managing nicely. I have been in New York and Los Angeles and Hawaii, all big, big centers. London, Paris.

Indian man (3): Oh, it's a very great. Your program for Kurukṣetra and etc. and the...

Prabhupāda: Program was that they promised to give me land.

Indian man (3): Who?

Prabhupāda: That chief minister.

Indian man (3): Have they done so?

Prabhupāda: Not yet.

Indian man (3): I had about 2 acres was available, except that. (talks about land he owns-indistinct)

Prabhupāda: We are trying for another big scheme in Bengal. We have applied to the government to acquire land, 350 acres, a big planetarium. Planetarium. We have described the planetarium in our Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In that planetarium it is said that the moon is above the sun planet. By one million six hundred thousand miles.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda's sitting there?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He sat next to you. He's shaved up.

Harikeśa: They're so skinny.

Prabhupāda: This was published in New York Times.

Harikeśa: New York Times?

Prabhupāda: With picture. The other picture was published in Voice, Village Voice, yes. Yes. Big picture. One page. They felt something; otherwise, why they should publish? Appealed to them, that here is God.

Harikeśa: This is really a historic picture.

Prabhupāda: Underneath a tree I was sitting and speaking. That's all. And when I would come back from the park to my apartment, at least two dozen people will come with me.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: I haven't been there for a long time, but I just heard about.

Prabhupāda: No, he has got money. How he is spending?

Harikeśa: He has hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Harikeśa: Probably in New York.

Prabhupāda: So he does not bring that?

Harikeśa: Yes, he has money all the time.

Akṣayānanda: Dhanañjaya prabhu, he went to see him and he said he was dying. He's supposed to pass off. And he said that he had written a will and on the will he had left most of his money to ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Caraṇāravindam: He loves you very much. Actually, he's very attracted to you Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why does he not come to us? He likes Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Caraṇāravindam: He loves Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: Determination. No, if he's in difficulty he may come. We can take care of him.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: MRA also?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. ISKCON: "Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activity that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Sastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 25 volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 17 volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books."

Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where they get this monkeys?

Caraṇāravindam: The monkey's alive and as you drink its brain it dies. They think this is also sport to them. Big horrible demons.

Devotee: In New York, I heard...

Hari-śauri: Andy Warhol. Now... Before I joined the movement I was working on a mining camp and they used to serve out sheep's brains every day. It was a big favorite with the Yugoslavs. Sheep's brains and...

Caraṇāravindam: Hearts.

Prabhupāda: Living sheep and cut?

Hari-śauri: No, no. They kill them first. It's like the Arabs. They eat sheep's eyeballs.

Prabhupāda: They eat?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The eyeball. They think it's a great delicacy.

Prabhupāda: Now their delicacy their own children. (break) ...big stack of bricks, iron. Left over.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they don't even finish the buildings they're building. That building across the road from our temple in New York, that's been there five years like that, half-completed.

Prabhupāda: Now things are deteriorating. And fire is always... (Siren bell sound:) dungdung dungdungdungdungdung-gawaawaawaa. Saṁsāra-dāvānala. Still they think that they are advanced. In one hour three times fire, still he is advanced. Therefore he is mūḍha. At least, in small city such disturbances are not... It is always gawaagawaagawaa.

Hari-śauri: Police, ambulance, fires.

Prabhupāda: How the city life is attractive we cannot understand.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Ask him. He's always telling us how New York is the best place in the world.

Prabhupāda: You were born in New York?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: That is mother and... (laughter) Jananī jana. (Sanskrit) Any rotten place, but birthplace has got some attraction.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.

Indian man: The Ratha-yātrā is held on 7th Avenue... (several talking at once)

Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."

Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."

Indian man: "Where East Meets West." Ah.

Hari-śauri: And this one is in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Washington Square Park... How many miles? At least four or five miles.

Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete. From one end to the other.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The government had sealed it off.

Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement. They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ... because as soon as the ship stopped, Commonwealth Pier, Boston, the immigration department came and took their papers. So I entered America in Boston. There was no checking in New York. The ship stopped in Boston. The official entrance was done there. Then when I came to New York, it is just like one day's travel.

Harikeśa: And then you went directly to Pennsylvania? By bus?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Then one agent, appointed by my host, Gopal Agarwal. He was in Butler. So he arranged with some professional what is called, host.

Harikeśa: Travel agent?

Prabhupāda: Maybe travel agent. He came to see me, that "I am sent by Gopal Agarwal, so I'll arrange for your dispatch. You come with me."

Hari-śauri: Dr. Agarwal was your sponsor?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His father came to see me some time in Agra. Agra. His father, mother came.

Hari-śauri: And then they suggested that he be your sponsor.

Prabhupāda: It was all by chance. I was for a few days guest at his father's place in Agra. I did not know that his son is in America. So he was talking about his family. He was little sorry that his eldest son went to America to study electric engineering, and he was entrapped by an English girl, and he married and settled there and did not come back. In this way... So I took the opportunity, that "Why don't you ask your son to sponsor me?" I wanted to go to America. So I did not know how seriously he took it. But I simply told him that "Why don't you ask your son to sponsor me at least for one month. So I am thinking of going to America." Then that was talking, beginning and end, that's all. I did not know that he took it very seriously. Then after two, three months, some documents came. I was receiving my letters in a post box. So when I left Delhi I used to keep my key of post box with some nice bookseller, Atmaram, he was manager. So he opened that, he got that documents.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Gopal was very much pleased that he could get some Indian cāpāṭis, like this.

Hari-śauri: So he had you cook for him. You took your cooker with you? Is that the same one?

Prabhupāda: No. So I lived with him for twenty-one days. Then I came to New York.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that picture in the Butler Eagle. It's in the Vyāsa-Pūjā book this year.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Butler County, it is good (indistinct), there were many churches (indistinct) people have got so many churches (indistinct) (break) ...some time, that one piece of wire lying in one place, one piece of bamboo was lying in another place, and one dry shell of a squash was lying. So one intelligent man collected. So this dry shell became the tamburā's what is called...

Hari-śauri: I don't know. Like sound chamber. What do you call it?

Prabhupāda: Sound chamber may be called. So with that dry squash he made the sound chamber. The bamboo he fixed up and the wire upon it and then it became a "Tin, tin, tin, tin..." (laughs) Our organization is like that. I was loitering in the street. Somebody was over there, somebody was there. Not combined together, International Society String Band. Yes. Separately we are all useless.

Room Conversation -- September 26, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: And I'm convinced Prabhupāda, that in this temple, right here, you can make every week at least two, three life members, and you can sell thousands of rupees worth of books. Yesterday I started one man, this boy Ikṣvāku from Germany. I said, "Just go around and greet people and show them around and sell them books." And the first few hours he sold seventy rupees worth of books. And if I have a few people who just walk around and they walk right up to the guests and say, "How do you do? My name is so and so. I come from New York. What is your name? Where do you come from?"

Prabhupāda: Last night all visitors came, all respectable gentlemen.

Haṁsadūta: Last night four people came, they were all big businessmen. One man had been working in a big business in Germany. He spoke German perfectly well. He was an Indian man. He lives in Agra. And so many people. Because Vṛndāvana is the heart of India, every Indian comes once in his lifetime to Vṛndāvana...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Haṁsadūta: ...if not more times. And everyone will come to our temple.

Prabhupāda: Due to Vṛndāvana, our temple is advertised all over India. Everyone says.

Haṁsadūta: We haven't even got to go out. We have simply to receive people nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...from Vṛndāvana. I was residing here after retirement. That Rādhā-Dāmodara, they are being paid monthly?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Holland. That is the international court?

Doctor: Yes, the court case located, the headquarters.

Prabhupāda: I went somewhere. That is also international. In Geneva, I think. Is there any...?

Doctor: Geneva is another headquarters of the, of the United Nations. New York, Geneva. But the court is in the Hague.

Prabhupāda: So I went to that place in Geneva.

Doctor: Geneva has got so many specialized agencies of the United Nations, like the I.L.O. and so on.

Prabhupāda: Do you think United Nations is making any tangible progress?

Doctor: Sir, it at least brings people together under one umbrella to discuss. If you did not have that...

Prabhupāda: But discussion, that I have already explained.

Doctor: Sir, maybe, but if you don't discuss, you'll fight. Because if aim we don't meet at all then they will have the struggle.

Prabhupāda: No. If you have no idea how to come to the conclusion, ciraṁ vicinvan. You can forever go on discussing, you'll never come... You do not know what is the aim. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Founder of the Gauḍīya Math.

Prabhupāda: He is the founder of Gauḍīya Math. He advised me to take up this movement when I was twenty-five years old, young man. But at that time I thought that "I am a married man; let me wait." So waiting, waiting. When I retired at the... I was born in 1896. So I retired in 1954. That means I retired at the age of fifty-eight years. At fifty-eight years. Then I remained as a vānaprastha in Vṛndāvana up to seventieth year of my age. Then I thought that "Guru Mahārāja asked me to do this at the age of, when I was twenty-five years old. I could not do it. So let me try." So by his grace and Kṛṣṇa's grace, it became little successful. That's all. In 1965 I went to New York without any help. But gradually, in 1966 I registered this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in New York. And then gradually, it spread whole America, Europe, Australia, Canada. Like that.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: I have established 102 temples. Small and big. Out of them, very big temples are in Los Angeles, in London, in Hawaii, Honolulu, in Detroit... And...

Haṁsadūta: New York, Chicago.

Prabhupāda: New York, Chicago.

Hari-śauri: Toronto.

Prabhupāda: Toronto, Montreal, Paris, so many. So many temples. Very, very big temples. The cost is sometimes fifty lakhs, fifty-five lakhs each temple.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New York is more than a million dollars, New York temple.

Interviewer: Do you have any proposal to spread this movement in Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have already gone. I have been in Moscow. This, my secretary, he has brought some order from them. They are also appreciating.

Prabhupāda: But they collect money by selling book.

Haṁsadūta: I know but people don't understand this. They simply see that, "Oh, these are astronomical sums of money being collected. So what is being done with this money by people who are just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What do they do with it?" Then, "Oh, they have bought this big building in New York, they are doing spending money like this, like that." Ultimately this is what it always come to, money. They want to see what is happening with the money.

Prabhupāda: And similarly here also, "Where they are getting money?"

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, because wherever there is money transaction, the government wants to take some. They feel, "Well, we should have some of this money for ourselves, also."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: So this may be a problem in this case. The thing about brain washing is not at all important. The important thing is if they look into our financial...

Prabhupāda: That is our BBT trust...

Haṁsadūta: Activities.

Prabhupāda: That by the sales of, sales proceeds, we 50% printing expansion, temples.

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: That is religion. That is clearly written there.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: Education: he graduated from the University of Cambridge and a B.A. in classical languages 1962. Graduated from Cornell University, Ithaca, New York in Tibetan linguists and he has a Ph.D. in linguistics.

Prabhupāda: Cambridge?

Hari-śauri: He has several, he has several books out. He was born in India in a traditional brāhmaṇa family, he learned Sanskrit at the age of 10, and his knowledge of the Hindu scriptures written in Sanskrit is very profound. He has committed to memory the entire Bhagavad-Gītā scripture and one fourth of the Ṛg Veda. He himself is a worshiper of Kṛṣṇa. His teachings is a way of life and he is extremely competent to judge whether the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is authentic and bona fide.

Devotee (2): He came to see you in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Prabhupāda: He has used very nice strong words.

Hari-śauri: Hm. "They effected through devious means to have 2 members of the New York Hare Kṛṣṇa centers to be arrested. Therein lies the infection(?) of the injustice. To compound it, a judge and a grand jury agreed with their charges of unlawful imprisonment and brainwashing, a charge which is unheard of to my knowledge in civil legal proceedings, and ordered the devotees to be jailed. As a citizen I am appalled by the over-reaction, the lack of understanding, and the hate that finds wrongdoing, not only by the people that make the charges but by the court as well."

Haṁsadūta: He says the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: That this charge is unheard of in the legal history, brainwashing, and what was it? Brainwashing what?

Hari-śauri: Brainwashing.

Haṁsadūta: That there was never such a charge in the history of law, someone who's been brainwashed.

Hari-śauri: (continues reading) "As a person who's own people have been persecuted for their own beliefs I can sympathize with any..."

Prabhupāda: You can charge anyone, brainwashing.

Hari-śauri: So it goes on, (continues reading) "In Judaism we find the blowing of the shofar, or ram's horn, and in the orthodox synagogue there is separation of men and women. Differences of dress are expressed amongst orthodox Jews and amongst various Christian orders. Our own Pilgrim ancestors differed in dress form the popish gentry of their time. I have studied and tested the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and have not found them to be weird or insane, only different form the mainstream. Like any other evangelical or proselytizing religion, their converts could only become converts if they choose to believe. For example, no one can drag a person to a Baptist Church and brainwash him into taking God into his heart, he has to want to accept willingly. No one is ever held against their will by the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. I have never seen it, nor have my colleagues ever seen it. In examining the various members of this religion, I have not found one who appears to be brainwashed or dopey like. In fact their mental health and normality astounds me. If you cannot accept Kṛṣṇa, God, they will sympathize with you and hope that you will eventually find Him and will wish you well as you go on your way. There have been devotees who have left the movement and have said negative things about it, but the sour grapes syndrome is not unusual for dropouts anyway. I wonder how many West Point dropouts vilify the Army, or how many Seminary drop outs leave and disdain their religion? After a rational person spends time with the Hare Kṛṣṇa people and learns to understand them, he could never believe them to be guilty of the charges which have been made here in New York recently."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, positive.

Prabhupāda: He says, "Important Hindu sect." How they can say whether it is a genuine? Important, not only genuine but important, Vaisnavism.

Hari-śauri: Hm. (continues reading) "...whose worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, in one of His many forms is one of the most important religions of India. The American devotees of ISKCON worship Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Being, the highest Personality of Godhead, whose worship according to the archaeological and epigraphic evidence, is pre-Christian in origin, as found in India's early sacred texts, the Ṛg Veda, Atharva Veda, etc. The detailed history of Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is found in the religious text of the Bhāgavata Purāṇa, and the philosophical basis of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is found in India's most sacred book the Bhagavad-gītā. These sacred texts and others have been translated and commented upon by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and are being studied today in many major universities across the United States. The particular form of Vaisnavism of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement dates from Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one of India's saints born in 1486 A.D. in Nadia, India. His immediate followers organized this philosophy in a number of Sanskrit texts, and His religious practices such as chanting and dancing are most authentically represented in America by the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees according to this tradition. Lord Caitanya, worshiped as the last incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, initiated a disciplic succession. In the mid-19th century, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appeared in this spiritual lineage. Soon afterwards, his son Bhaktisiddhānta, Sarasvatī became the spiritual master of India's Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, and his most prominent student was Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was at Bhaktisiddhānta's command that Śrīla Prabhupāda later came to America to bring the teachings and practices of Caitanya to the West. My study of these American devotees, which I have pursued since 1968, was published in my book, Hare Krishna and the Counter-culture, published by John Wiley and Sons in 1974, New York. The sociological data revealed through a detailed questionnaire and many hours of taped interviews, indicates that many of the devotees had been influenced by the hippie culture of the 1960's. However, after they joined the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, their lives became completely changed from a life of drugs, illicit sex, and violence to one of dedication to a spiritual discipline and morality and to helping others in their search for happiness. In this period of rapid social and cultural change..."

Prabhupāda: This is the fact, in many cases. So many drunkards, so many violence... This is... (name witheld)?

Haṁsadūta: (name witheld).

Prabhupāda: Big drunkard.