Expressions researched:
"naturally"
Guest (1): A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some cases, but even then you have to figure out some (indistinct) and remain in the, I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego (indistinct). What you're saying is hundred percent true. Yes. It's like that.
Prabhupāda: And nowadays bribe also.
Pradyumna: "I do not see how any good can come from killing my own kinsmen in this battle, nor can I, my dear Kṛṣṇa, desire any subsequent victory, kingdom or happiness."
Prabhupāda: Naturally this will be. Then?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At that time. Then there was repeated letters, come back, come back. So I returned in 1968. So, in spite of heart weakness, I worked. I suffered that weakness continually for one year.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally, naturally.
Prabhupāda: Then I was taking Kavirāja's medicine. I took it from here, that Yogendranātha. That gave me good strength, and massage the body. Not taking bath in cold water. In this way, somehow or other, still going on.
Prabhupāda: In India, yes. No, by publisher, especially publisher like MacMillan you save so much time and investment also. We are not for profit. We want to see the publication in the market, so in that sense we save so much trouble, but they always look after their business profit.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning also I requested them to publish the whole, but they said, "No, it will be very big, it will be costly. You reduce it to 400 pages." So that 1100 pages were reduced to 400 pages. Now when people are demanding this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, people are coming. When our saṅkīrtana party goes in the street many gentlemen comes and demands "Have you got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?"
Prabhupāda: Sarve sukhina... Everyone be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to see everyone to be happy. That's all.
Dr. Patel: I, but, this is naturally me, if I see, of course... Then naturally... The great Jesus Christ, great bhakta of God. (some other men talk in background) But Christians, they have, they are...
Prabhupāda: No, no. These, they may be low grade. They may be inferior, but if we are superior, we must act as superior.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is our movement.
Hṛdayānanda: So they should be trained to rise early and so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep healthy, then you will naturally rise healthy, er rise early in the morning. But if you... Because you have lost all, what is called? Stamina?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma.
Prabhupāda: "Come here. Sit down. Take prasādam. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And help me by doing this." In this way you have to... Just like a child. Child does not want to go to school, but some, by... Find out some means so that he'll be induced. That is intelligence. He'll be angry, naturally. He's a rascal. He'll be angry. That is not unnatural. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). Just like a snake. You feed the snake with milk. It will increase the poison. That's all. Practically attract. Practically attract. That is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Kṛṣṇa conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Because by opening hospital, you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. Then what you are doing for the others? That is for your satisfaction. Try to understand. Because you cannot do anything, but still, you are wasting your time. That is for your satisfaction.
Guest (1): Naturally for myself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?
Guest (1): We can do our own satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: The woman's voice is very attractive. Because people engage woman for singing. Their voice is naturally attractive. "So that attractive voice, I am. I am."
Dr. Patel: Kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṇām, smṛtir medhā and dhṛtiḥ and kṣamā. These are the feminine qualities. "There I am. I am kṣamā, I am dhṛtiḥ, I am medhā, I am smṛtir and I am the melodious sound of women. I am kīrtiḥ and I am śrīr."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Siddha, there is a Siddha-loka. So they can fly from one planet to another without any machine, siddha-saṅgāḥ. Means the aṣṭa-siddhi yogas, they have got naturally.
Dr. Patel: All aṣṭa-siddhis, they have got.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are called siddha, Siddha-loka. Just like here if anyone wants to walk over the water, he requires to acquire so much mystic power. You see? Some of the yogis. But you will find one bird, skylark, one swan, he is very easily doing.
Dr. Patel: They have siddhas from the birth.
Prabhupāda: No, that is now dwindling. The hippies are coming out. So one day it will be finished. One day it will be finished. That... It has already begun. The future hope is now becoming hippies. So who will manage this? It is already there is a problem how to maintain the industry, how to... This has become a problem. So naturally, when the, there will be all hippies, not to work, then everything collapses. The so-called prosperity will be finished. (break) Nobody is working sincerely. Here also in India, all government servants, they do not work. The manager of the government coal company said that "The workers in the mine, they are not working.
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Just like people come to see me. Similarly, everyone comes.
Akṣayānanda: Everyone is attracted to you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should be such qualified that people will come to consult you, to take your advice, and... That is the way. (break) ...one after another. Just like if you are a qualified lawyer, when one has difficulty, he comes, consults you, what to do. If you are a qualified physician, then people will come to consult you. So you become qualified, ideal; people will come.
Prabhupāda: The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances.
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. If this man is fed up with this industry, he can go back to village and produce his own food. But he is attached to this industrial activity because he is thinking that "We are getting more money for wine and woman and meat. Let me enjoy." That is the perfect, imp... But if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, his consciousness will be purified and he will be made not interested this kind of work. He will go back to village and produce food. This is French?
Prabhupāda: Naturally he will do. If you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he attends the Kṛṣṇa conscious program, naturally he will do. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. That is the progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He will be satisfied in any condition of life. That is progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He doesn't require anything artificially. His main necessity is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if his attention is diverted in that way, these things will be not important.
Yogeśvara: So then we should begin our rural communities like New Vrindaban, and then by training up people in the cities, we can send them gradually...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it will go on, but when they will see that your ideal community is better than city life, people will take to it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When one gets a better standard of life, naturally he will give up the lower standard of life.
Dhanañjaya: But won't the countryside be spoiled if there is an atomic war?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The what is called...?
Dhanañjaya: Radioactivity.
Prabhupāda: By atomic bomb... What is that? The... It says in your country, that you divide the city. I just forget.
Prabhupāda: I would say "If he has no brain, what is the use of going to a meeting?" (laughter) Our only... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The men are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. What they will do? Meeting of the dogs, hogs, camels and asses will be any beneficial to the society? We are very pessimistic, and our conclusion, that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is dogs, hogs, camels, asses, that's all. No brain, animal. Animal has got brain: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life. So these people, they have got brain for that purposes only. That is animal life. Actually, they do not know what is the aim of life, why people should be educated, why human society should be organized. They do not know. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Enamored by these big, big buildings. That's all. "Oh, they are so advanced." And naturally, the common man comes to the European or American city, he says, "Oh, Americans are very rich."
Prabhupāda: So naturally, Kṛṣṇa samādhi. If one continues in this attitude, always to be absorbed in Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa recommends, "Such person is the topmost yogi."
So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature.
Yogeśvara: He does not think that they will follow naturally just by stopping these four things.
Prabhupāda: Naturally it follows, but if somebody wants to cheat, that is another thing. Naturally it follows.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: This gentleman suggests that he prefers someone who may be committing all four of these sinful activities but who helps his fellow man.
Prabhupāda: The fellow man helping, what does he gain?
Yogeśvara: (translates) And in that situation, always thinking of God like that, our philosophy is that naturally these others things, charity, humanitarian works, they will all come naturally?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). As soon as you become a unalloyed devotee of God, all the good qualities will manifest in you. If the good qualities does not manifest in you, that means you are not yet perfect in God consciousness. Just like you European boys, American boys, why you have given... (break) ...one of the item is that good quality that "Why shall I give trouble, pain, to other animals?" This is within the God consciousness. Just like poor-feeding. This program we also follow. In our temple, especially in India, any man can come and take his food. Yes. We have got arrangement. In the U.S.A also, Los Angeles, New York, we invite anyone, "Come and take food." We don't want to see that anyone is hungry.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They will naturally perform some tapasya?
Prabhupāda: Yes, then other things will follow. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. They do not inquire. That means animal life. As soon as there is inquiry, jijñāsu, jñānī jijñāsu... They're not jijñāsu even. Neither jñānī. (pause) The path must be very old. The trees are very aged. (pause) (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...yesterday said, when you said that one must be pure before he approaches God, they said, "That's spiritual pride." They said, "That is not good to say first we have to be pure. Like egoism," they said.
Priest: Half of my time, yes, I was in India, half my life.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years in a place means you domicile. Yes, naturally.
Priest: Did you come to Poona?
Prabhupāda: Once I went. One friend took me there. I stayed in that Gujarati hotel, near the station I think.
Priest: Yes, not far.
Prabhupāda: Poona is nice place. Climate is nice.
Priest: For studies it's a beautiful place, and particularly for Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as you become strong, naturally there will be more enemies. That is natural. Therefore last night I said, "If there is no understanding of God, where is religion?" This is not religion, the cheating. There cannot be any conception of religion without conception of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the law given by God. So if you have no idea about God, where is your religion? Religion does not mean some formalities. No, that is not religion. Formalities we have also, but we have clear conception of God. Here is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: Do people naturally act sinfully, or is that something that they develop?
Prabhupāda: Hm? By association. If you mix with the drunkards, you'll learn how to drink. And if you mix with the devotees, similarly, you can become cleansed. By the association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. One's desires develop according to the association.
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully. So I do not know what is going in within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything, nook and corner of the whole universe. But if we compare ourself with God, that is impossible, because naturally we get knowledge from others, we may question, "Wherefrom God got knowledge?" Therefore it is stated there, svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else. He's independently full of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: From their fathers. Yes. Because in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill," and their fathers indulge in killing business. So naturally their generation has degraded. (French)
Bhagavān: What did he say?
Yogeśvara: He said whether there was much discussion after the meeting last night.
Bhagavān: Oh, yes. There was...
Yogeśvara: Yes, they stayed until midnight.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and they gave us that park and at the last moment they rejected. First of all they gave then at the last moment the municipality thought that this land cannot be given to any religion. And offered that (indistinct). So we had no other alternative. (indistinct) And the government indirectly giving us so much hindrance. They do not like it. One of the important members (indistinct), he frankly said that we do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India. Because they know it, (indistinct), that India is naturally inclined to Kṛṣṇa. And if the selected people of the world combine together and push this movement in India, the whole program of the modern leaders (indistinct) That's a fact. And that was my (indistinct) I wanted to start this movement from India but nobody cooperated, so then I decided to come to America and my plan was successful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga."
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot..., you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that "You are using your influence, nepotism." Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Without guru how can you...
Professor: Yes, naturally.
Prabhupāda: He is my guru. Show the photo.
Devotee: It's just above you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He is my guru.
Professor: But you are of the same line of Puruṣottama Sarasvatī, the great philosopher, no?
Prabhupāda: Puruṣottama Sarasvatī? No, my Guru Mahārāja was Sarasvatī, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): As a doctor, he says he is naturally interested in this life in the problems of the body, but he also feels that a human being should follow whatever philosophy he chooses in order to achieve what one may call the spiritual world or eternal happiness.
Prabhupāda: Then it is something like that, that the motor mechanic is interested with the motor car, but he is not interested with the welfare of the driver. But the fact is, if the driver is not in order, the car will not go. It may be well-equipped, well-engined, well-oiled, but if the driver is defective, it will create another disaster.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.
Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural.
Female Reporter: That goes against the thinking of a lot of people in America now. Do you know that?
Prabhupāda: No... America, maybe, but this is the natural position. Women require protection.
Prabhupāda: It is my request that you are so many respectable Indian gentlemen here, and we are preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. You come forward. You learn more and join this mission. It is not meant for Mr. Attar; it is meant for everyone, especially for the Indians. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that also, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Bhārata-bhūmite means in the land of Bhāratavarṣa. Bhārata-bhūmi is considered puṇya-bhūmi. So you are fortunate that you have taken birth as human being in India. It is the result of much pious activities. Indians are naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now this gentleman, Mr. George, what is his name, full name?
Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Western countries they are now fed up with this materialistic way of life. And I think it will very soon collapse, the Western way of life. And naturally the next enquiry is spiritual.
Ambassador: Yes, it's already beginning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The material life means animal life.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So when the animal comes to higher consciousness, that is spiritual consciousness. We are combined at the present moment. We are actually spiritual, but some way or other, we have come in contact with matter, and we are covered by the material body, and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they gave us place. At the last moment they rejected. First of all they gave. Then, at the last moment, the municipality said, "No, this land cannot be given to any religious function." Rejected. And offered, "If you like, you can take this place." So we had no other alternative to accept it. We advertised that "We are going to hold this ceremony," and the authority rejected at the eleventh hour and offered the Tal Kotara place. We had to accept it. And the government indirectly giving us so many hindrances in India. Yes. They do not like. One of the important member of the cabinet, he frankly said that "We do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India." Because they know it, Indira Gandhi and company, that India is naturally inclined to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: According to... No, why according? This is fact. Religion which is not on the samyavāda, that is not religion. That is some mental concoction. This samyavāda platform is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as I have quoted already, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When one is spiritually realized, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ, and the symptom is prasannātmā. So when one is prasannātmā, naturally he is on the samyavāda platform. On the material platform, nobody is prasannātmā. Nobody.
Guest: But on the spiritual platform, everybody?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual platform means prasannātmā. That is the distinction. And the material platform means nobody is satisfied. A man, millionaires, he is also committing suicide.
Prabhupāda: Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ. Why does He not say one varṇa, brāhmaṇa? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work.
Prabhupāda: He is simply getting more attached to this material world, where he will not be allowed to stay. This is his foolishness. Naturally, we are sitting in this room, and if we say that "I can spare only two minutes," then will you be very much eager to decorate the room? So that warning is already there. Everyone knows that "I will not be able to stay here," and they are making skyscraper building. How foolish they are. He knows that "I will not be allowed to stay here," and he is busy whole life how to make fogscraper, skyscraper. The same example. If I say, "You cannot sit here more than few minutes," then will you be engaged how to decorate this room? You'll know naturally that "I am here for two minutes. Why shall I take, waste my time to decorate?" They are doing that actually. So are they not foolish?
Pañcadraviḍa: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.
Prabhupāda: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?
Prabhupāda: Naturally. They are in greater number.
Rāmeṣvara: But these modern wars are fought with missiles and bombs more than armies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, also, there were brahmāstra, fire, firearms, brahmāstra. (break) ...problems that we are facing, they were also in the past under different name, different form.
Nalinī-kānta: (break) ...Communists win, that will not stop our preaching?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're insulting. They're... Not insulting. They're naturally enemy of... not to let them... The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia... Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.
Prabhupāda: Sil. Sil means cultured. A cultured man is called sil. Sushil. Sushil means very culture, very... Sushil. So kalo brahm... This is unnatural. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, kanki chele... (indistinct) Now generally people, we saw, in our childhood, Europeans were very tall and now they are not coming (indistinct). Naturally when they'll not get sufficient nourishment, they'll be stunted. And Kali-yuga means decrease of nourishment, necessities of life decreasing. We see in such a rich man's house, there is no milk. Milk is one of the important nourishment foods. And there is no milk. So gradually there'll be no milk, no rice, no wheat, no sugar. These are stated. Where you'll get nourishment? And the mango, there'll be no pulp, only the seed. These are predicted. After all, you have to live by nature's gift, but these things will be finished. And Russia there is, already there is no rice. There is no fruit. There is no vegetable. Simply we eat meat.
Prabhupāda: No, that I asked him. Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist.
Prabhupāda: Love means that I want to eat something, and if I love somebody, then I will see that my beloved also eats. If you take something from your beloved, naturally the lovers present things. Just a boy loves a girl. He presents something to the girl. So, if you accept presentation by others, we should give him also something. And, if I have got some confidential thing, I must disclose it to the lover, and the lover is also expected, he should not keep anything confidential. He should disclose it. These are the six reciprocal exchanges between the lover and the beloved. If I love you, because you are beautiful, for my sense gratification, but I keep everything secret, that is not love. That is sense gratification. Lust. These are the signs of love.
Amogha: The divisions of work are naturally there. You can't avoid them.
Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs.
Amogha: But at present the caste system in India isn't actually representative of the original varṇāśrama dharma system. The original system was a cooperation, organized cooperation between four kinds of men which are naturally there in society. Just like now we can see that some people are working as laborers, some people are working as merchants, and some people politicians and lawyers, some are teachers. Originally they were organized so that the priests, or priestly order, were benefiting everyone by their teaching. And so that they could fully concentrate on that, they were not engaged in working for food and money. But what happened in this age, was that the higher caste became fallen, and they misused their high position, and instead of helping everyone by their teaching, they misused the position, or exploited the position, simply for selfish ends, so there became a conflict between the...
Prabhupāda: Vested interest.
Prabhupāda: The human being should not complain that there is no sufficient food grains, therefore they're eating flesh. No. Flesh is not for human being. They should live on food grains. Just like dahl. Dahl is as good as meat. It is from food grain. And there is sufficient varieties of dahl they can eat. They can make so many preparations, palatable preparations. Why are the prices of food grains increasing? Because there is shortage. If there is enough food, the price will automatically decrease, because everyone want to sell. So, the price will decrease, naturally. It will be so lavishly available that you can give food grains even to the animals, like cows and goats and other so many animals. Let them eat. That is the business of the vaiśya man. And go-rakṣya.
Amogha: And so if Kṛṣṇa was such a great philosopher, then naturally He would have also used those literary talents to write in between the lines.
Prabhupāda: All right, you become very good bluffer. That's all. We don't accept you. All the ācāryas, they did not accept, those who are authorities. Vyāsadeva, he did not accept these foolish theories. Nārada never accepted. Recent ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Caitanya. Why shall I accept these third-class professors? Kick on their face. We have got authority to support this.
Justin Murphy: We, the organization that I work for, the government that I work for, is, of course, very, very different, no doubt, in ideas and in philosophies to all of you, and you for example. We work within, however, a situation where we are concerned that within the framework of Australia's society, which involves people, private enterprise, industry, increasing population, all of these placing demands on what naturally is Australia, what you were talking about to begin with. The evolution of Australia, the continent, the land mass, and the birds, the animals. Of course, we have a magnificent and unique and diverse fauna and flora.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: If we cannot understand ourself... It is very simple, that "I have changed my body so many times, so naturally, when this body will be useless in this life, then I will have to accept another body." This is the version of... (Aside:) You find out.
Paramahaṁsa: English?
Prabhupāda: English and..., yes.
Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, or the Supreme Soul, and we are all individual souls. So naturally we have an awareness of our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God. When we say God or Kṛṣṇa, we don't mean my God or your God, but we mean God, no matter which religion we're speaking of. So all of us naturally have a capacity to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we can awaken this relationship with Him. And when that is awakened, then all unwanted things disappear, because everybody is actually frustrated, looking for permanent happiness in this temporary world. But when we awaken our Kṛṣṇa consciousness then all of those frustrations disappear, and so all such problems like drug addiction become unnecessary.
Guest (2): How long does this process of withdrawal take?
Paramahaṁsa: He says how long does it take to stop taking drugs by the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: If one lives with us at least for six months, he will give up.
Prabhupāda: No, no, from the very childhood we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, our family, the Vaiṣṇava family. My father and my forefathers, they are all belonged to this cult, Kṛṣṇa cult. So naturally from our childhood we were trained up in this cult.
Journalist: Yes. Do you have children?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I have got my wife, children, everything. But now I have no connection with them; I am a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī means to give up all material connection.
Prabhupāda: So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing. Will you be very happy?
Australian devotee 5: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling this government man the other day not to kill the cows but to wait till they die. But they have a law that if the cow dies naturally, then it cannot be eaten.
Prabhupāda: That means we must commit sin. The government...
Amogha: I think their idea is that if...
Prabhupāda: But their argument is fallacious. Kill means it dies. So how we can eat? Just see the... See their intelligence. Kill means it dies.
Śrutakīrti: They say that if it dies naturally it is due to some disease, so there may be some harm in eating such meat.
Prabhupāda: So that means nobody will die. Is there... The law is it to die. Why disease? Disease or no disease, everyone should die.
Śrutakīrti: But if we kill the cow without it, while it is healthy, then it is very good to eat the meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but the argument is die. As soon as you kill, it is died. As soon as you take the fish out of the water it dies. So how you can say that dead animal is not good? It is dead. For argument's sake, "A dead animal is not good," but you make him dead. Then you eat. Where is the argument that dead animal is bad? You are eating dead. That means they are not even common sense. That is the rascaldom. Rascal means one who has no common sense even.
Australian devotee 5: They would say then, "Why don't you let the vegetables die naturally before you eat the vegetables?"
Prabhupāda: Vegetable? We are not talking of vegetable; we are talking of animals. Why don't you kill your father? Old father, useless, kill him and eat.
Hari-śauri: Actually they are not very much concerned about their parents anymore either. They put them in institutions also when they get too old.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, time will come; they will kill their father. Now they are killing their children. Now they will kill their father. As soon as the whole world will become Communist they will kill the old man, as the Africans, they do it. Africans kill their grandfather, and it is a festival. Yes. They throw the grandfather on the roof of the cottage, and it, rolling down, it falls down. Twice, thrice it dies.
Prabhupāda: "Why I am dying? I do not want to die. Why there are so many miserable condition?" We are covering because there is miserable condition of this winter. I don't want to suffer from cold. Therefore I am covered. So this is struggle for existence. The human being can understand that why there is struggle? Why not I am happy naturally? This question must be there. Otherwise he is cat and dog. The dogs do not inquire all these things. Then if you have no such power to inquire and understand, then you are no better than dog. And if you are happy to remain cats and dogs, that is your business. But a real human being, he will never be happy. That is human being. Everyone is trying to improve his material condition. Therefore the motor car is going here and there, here and there. Why they are trying? Let them remain satisfied in any condition. The modern economic law is that create new necessities of life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Misconception... Just like you have got a body; I have got a body. If I say, "No, I don't like you "... If I say, "I don't like you"... Naturally, when we see superficially, then this tendency will go on. When you see inside, introspectively, then there will be equality. That requires education. So...
Yogi Bhajan: All right, come and educate.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) But that education is there, the beginning, in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogi Bhajan: No, you are shy.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in these psychological tests the thing is not that... There's some defects... Naturally there's some defects...
Prabhupāda: There must be. Material science means defective.
Dharmādhyakṣa: But in the karmī world there are even more defects. You see?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the...
Dharmādhyakṣa: And the tests would show that in the karmī world there's more...
Revatīnandana: The Mexican people are always a little appreciative. They naturally believe in God.
Prabhupāda: Give them invitations. Today is Sunday.
Bahulāśva: Yes, Cit-sukhānanda is speaking with them.
Prabhupāda: No, you have no card? Love feast card? Give them, that "come."
Jagannātha-suta: Jayatīrtha has one. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...is our enemy, it means Hare Kṛṣṇa is acting upon him. Yes.
Bahulāśva: Like Kaṁsa.
Prabhupāda: If, therefore, the soul is directly engaged with the Supreme, naturally all other subordinates, namely, the intelligence, mind and the senses, will be automatically engaged. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad there is a passage in which it is said that the objects of sense gratification are superior to the senses, and mind is superior to the sense objects. If, therefore, the mind is directly engaged in the service of the Lord constantly, then there is no chance of the senses becoming engaged in other ways. This mental attitude has already been explained. If the mind is engaged in the transcendental service of the Lord, there is no chance of its being engaged in the lower propensities. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad the soul has been described as mahān, the great. Therefore the soul is above all-namely, the sense objects, the senses, the mind and the intelligence. Therefore, directly understanding the constitutional position of the soul is the solution of the whole problem.
Prabhupāda: There must be something to repose my love. So they have no family, no Kṛṣṇa. So naturally keep dog. (break) ...must be there, to love. That is my tendency, but if I have nothing, then I will have to catch the dog. What can be done? (break) ...furnish this television. Dog and television and whiskey and cigarette. That's all. (laughter) Is it not? (break) ...in India these things are entering: dog, television. And cigarette, wine, has already entered.
Bahulāśva: This is the degradation. (break)
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing. And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits. We generally take bad character on the basis of illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they will get the advantage of the son. Somehow or other, they have produced a son, Vaiṣṇava, so the son's activities will react upon the life of the parents. Because naturally the sons think of the father and mother, that is beneficial for them. However one may be renounced, he cannot get rid of family affection. That is natural. So the Vaiṣṇava son sometimes thinks of the father and mother. So they are getting the benefit.
Devotee: So sometimes the attachment is beneficial, then?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? We are trying to be attached with Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. Instead of having attachment with this whole material world, we are turning to transfer the attachment to Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse,
Prabhupāda: (laughing) But your mother is very good. Yes, son inherits the quality of mother. And the daughter inherits the quality of father. Yes. So if the mother is good, naturally the son is good. That is Vedic calculation.
Woman: I'm sorry you said that.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is all physiological. And we have seen, studied, that any big man of the world, behind that big man is either a strong mother or a strong wife. That is the general statistics. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātā yasya gṛhe nāsti bharyā cāpriya-vādinī. If there is no mother at home and the wife is not very suitable, does not speak very nicely with husband, disrespectful, then he is recommended to leave home and go to the forest.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy?
Prabhupāda: America, or any other part of the world, we are all spiritual being. We cannot be satisfied only with the bodily necessities of life. Naturally there is question, "What I am? I am simply this body or something else?" That question naturally comes in human mind. That is very good. A dog cannot think like that. Therefore in the human life it is necessary to question: "What I am? Why I am put into miserable conditions of life? I do not want it, but it is forced upon me. If there is any remedy, what is that remedy?" These questions are very big questions. So unless you, a human being, is awakened to these questions, he is no better than animal.
Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom the corn came?
Paramahaṁsa: From itself. You see, they theorize that naturally...
Prabhupāda: Theorize, theorize. But we say corn is produced... When the seeds are thrown on the ground, then corns are produced. Wherefrom... The corn is not dropping from the sky.
Paramahaṁsa: Originally, right.
Prabhupāda: We have not seen the original.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, originally, they say, it was just some chance combination of atoms and molecules...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, bulls, should have helped in spite of that... instead of that machine. Then it is properly utilized. And others, they cannot utilize these animals. Therefore, what they will do? Naturally they will send to slaughterhouse. But we are not going to send to the slaughterhouse. Then what we will do? They must be utilized. Otherwise simply for growing food that the cows and bulls we engage ourself? You are already feeling burden because there are so many bull calves. You were asking me, "What we shall do with so many bulls?"
Prabhupāda: Milk you are collecting. So put in the pan. I have already explained. From milk stage to yogurt, yogurt to old yogurt, from old yogurt to butter, and then water, that whey. Then butter convert into ghee and whey, you can use, instead of drinking water, drink whey. Not a single drop of milk will be wasted, if you know how to do it. And you can take as much milk as possible, because ultimately it is going to be ghee. So if you start in the cities, nice restaurant, so ghee can be sold there. They'll pay for that. And they can prepare nice preparations, kachoris, samosa, sweetballs. Or milk, if you don't convert into yogurt, then naturally it will become... What is called?
Dr. Patel: Those thirty qualifications do come naturally, as you say, but they come slowly. But (Hindi) we must teach them this in the kṛṣṇa-bhakti, the qualities of a real sādhu.
Prabhupāda: If you make a condition that "First of all you become qualified; then you preach," that will never come. Rūpa Gosvāmī therefore recommends, yena tena prakāreṇa mana kṛṣṇe niveśayet: "Somehow or other bring him to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Then other... Sarve vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Automatically they'll come as servant. First of all let their mind be fixed up on Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure.
Prabhupāda: So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is artificial. So our normal life means to love Kṛṣṇa, to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our normal life. Without serving Kṛṣṇa our life is abnormal, madman's life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... When you forget Kṛṣṇa, He comes to preach the normal life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is normal life. So Kṛṣṇa does not require your help. He can create many helpers. But for your good Kṛṣṇa comes, that "If you want normal, happy life, then surrender unto Me."
Prabhupāda: Naturally people are not very much interested in our movement.
Brahmānanda: Because these four things that they are supporting, we are against.
Indian: I asked that pilot who was staying in our Bombay, Juhu land.
Prahupada: Ha ha. Mr. Sharma?
Indian: Not Sharma. That pilot. He's a pilot.
Brahmānanda: Oh, Ācārya.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. So we are dealing with very, very difficult task. It is not very easy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Naturally we have got attraction for God. That is spiritual kingdom. Just like Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means center is Kṛṣṇa. The elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśoda, their friends, their..., they are also attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The gopīs are attracted to Kṛṣṇa, the cowherds boys, they are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The cows, calves, animals and peacock—everyone is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. The water is attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. And here in the material world nobody is attracted by Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Śāstra says. You conjecture, but we don't conjecture. We simply repeat what is said in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. "Your eyes should be the śāstra, not conjecture." Śāstra says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He has become a dog on account of his infection with certain type of material qualities. That is our eyes. We don't conjecture anything. It is naturally may be inquired that "Why one living entity has got this body of a dog and why one living entity has got the body of King Indra?" The śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Śāstra says, Kṛṣṇa says. So it is, reason is, that he has infected the certain type of material modes of nature; therefore he has got. It is very easy. As you, medical man, you know how the disease has come, you have infected the disease. It is that.
Harikeśa: But at least they're equal.
Prabhupāda: Well, when you become poor, then naturally it is equal. There is no rich man. Naturally you become equal. If everyone is fool, then everyone is equal. That's all.
Harikeśa: But everybody in Russia is so strong.
Prabhupāda: What is that strong?
Ambarīṣa: They can lift all kinds of weight and fight very strongly. Very strong people. So they're not starving.
Prabhupāda: No, no, then when there will be no capital, naturally they will be communistic. That's all. Nothing to eat...
Haṁsadūta: So it's just some... It's not a philosophy but it's a position that one has to accept out of desperation.
Prabhupāda: So that is described in the Bhāgavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Āchinna. That is already told.
Prabhupāda: Therefore naturally they are condemned.
Harikeśa: So when you put the communistic system somewhere where you can grow these things, it will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things. Then it will be nice.
Prabhupāda: But if you bring communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. Which way?
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Abhilāṣ means desire. Anya means "except service of Kṛṣṇa." That is beginning of bhakti. As soon as he desires something material for enjoyment he has to come to Me. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The mind and the senses; with these things he is struggling for existence. Otherwise he is part and parcel of Krs..., mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhutaḥ jīva-loka sanātana (BG 15.7). He is eternal but because he is influenced by the mind, desires, and the senses, sense enjoyment, he is struggling. This is it, a struggle. So when he is too much fatigued, Kṛṣṇa comes and gives you good counsel. "You rascal give up these all desires. Surrender to Me, I give you protection." But he'll not do that. And if he agrees then anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), all material desires, zero. Then bhakti begins. And if you have got a little pinch of material desires, then you have to accept different types of body. It will create, naturally. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). He is desiring under the influence of particular modes of nature, and he's getting body.
Prabhupāda: Why not clear? That means your intelligence is not clear.
Indian man: (spluttering) ...naturally, but listen what I say.
Prabhupāda: So, the ātmā, that is stated in the Bhāgavata, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Nityasyoktāḥ, nityasyoktāḥ, śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the soul who possesses this body, he is nitya. So, you have to enjoy or suffer the reaction of your activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). You have got a type of body on account of your activities.
Indian man: But how ātmā... Suppose I am doing some sins? So how ātmā can be controlling. Suffering...
| Page Title: | Naturally (Conversations 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 10 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=85, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 85 |