Śyāmasundara: He says there are two types of truth. One is just like the principle of a triangle, there are three angles equal to 180 degrees, and the other type of truth is gathered by experience. For instance, we see that snow is white, but it is also possible that snow may be red.
Prabhupāda: But this is also experienced, that the three angles of a triangle make 180 degrees.
Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists independently, without any...
Prabhupāda: How independently? Not everyone knows what is a triangle, what is an angle, and what is a degree. When one comes to study geometry, then he understands. You cannot ask any child or any man who has no knowledge of geometry that these three angles of a triangle makes 180 degrees...
Śyāmasundara: But this truth exists, whether the man knows it or not. This truth exists, that three sides of a triangle equals 180 degrees.
Prabhupāda: But truth means it exists. Not this truth or that truth. Truth means that. That you may know or not know, but it exists. That is truth. So why is he making this example?
Śyāmasundara: Because there is also a truth that snow is white, they say snow is white, but that truth is not absolute because snow could be red also. But a triangle must always equal 180 degrees. That is an absolute truth, a necessary truth.
Prabhupāda: So any mathematical calculation is like that. Why this example? Mathematical means this: Two plus two equals four. That is always the truth.
Śyāmasundara: He is trying to prove that there are certain truths that we cannot deny they exist independent of our knowledge. Fundamental. And there are other truths that people say, like snow is white, which may not be true because our senses deceive us.
Prabhupāda: That is your defective senses. But snow is white, that's a fact. Why should it be red? At least we have no experience with red snow.
Śyāmasundara: I've seen red snow.
Prabhupāda: How it is?
Śyāmasundara: Particles of lava dust gathered in the snow and in the air...
Prabhupāda: That is not pure snow. That is another thing. Pure snow is white. Just like water. Water, by nature, it is crystal. But when it comes in touch with the earth, it becomes muddy. So that muddiness is due to contact with something external. Snow is white by nature, but in contact with something else it looks red. But the truth that snow is white, that is truth. Not that snow becoming red... You are making, or by some other contact it is looking like that. But snow is white, that's a truth.
Śyāmasundara: But he says that there are two types of truth. There's innate truth...
Prabhupāda: This is innate truth: as three angles of a triangle are equal to 180 degrees, similarly snow is white. Snow is white, water is liquid, stone is hard, chili is hot, sugar is sweet. These are eternal truths, fundamental truths. Similarly, a living entity is eternal servant of God. This is eternal truth. It cannot be changed. Water is liquid. That is the natural position, but when water becomes hard, it is due to temperature, under certain conditions, but as soon as the temperature reduces, the water becomes liquid. So liquidity of water is truth. Similarly, whiteness of snow is truth. Similarly, servitude of the living entity is truth. But he is serving māyā. That is untruth. If we take that there are two types of truth, there cannot be two kinds of truth. Truth is one. What we take as truth, that is māyā.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, there's only one truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There can't be two truths.
Śyāmasundara: But due to our imperfect senses...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is what is called māyā. Māyā has no existence, but it appears like truth. The same example: the shadow has no existence, but it also looks like my finger, and everything exactly. In the mirror you see your face exactly the same, but it is untruth. The truth is one. Truth cannot be two types of truth. What is taken as truth for the present moment, and by experience he comes to the right truth, that is called māyā.
Śyāmasundara: He says that these two types of truth are governed by two different principles: the truth of reason or the logically necessary proof, like the triangle...
Prabhupāda: This is reason, that truth is one. When we find another competitor truth, that is māyā. Truth cannot be two.
Śyāmasundara: This is what he says, that these innate truths are governed by the principle of contradiction. That is, the opposite of the truth is impossible to conceive. If something is true, the opposite of that truth is impossible to conceive.
Prabhupāda: The opposite is māyā. Opposite to truth is māyā.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the sum of the angles of a triangle must equal 180 degrees. It is impossible to conceive of the opposite.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the other example that snow is white. To think of snow not white, that cannot be conceived.
Śyāmasundara: He says that "snow is white" is not one of these eternal truths; that it is possible to conceive that snow could be red.
Prabhupāda: Why? You say that redness of snow is possible under certain circumstances?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that is possible in every case. Therefore the real feature of snow is not red. It appears to be red under certain conditions, but that is not truth; that is untruth.
Śyāmasundara: What about two plus two equals four?
Prabhupāda: That is true.
Śyāmasundara: It's impossible to conceive of the opposite of that truth. So that is what he would call logically necessary proof, proved by the law of contradiction.
Prabhupāda: My point is that he says that there are two types of truth. No. There cannot be two types of truth. That is my protest. I say there is only one truth. When you think two types of truth, then you are mistaken. Then same thing: when you think that two plus two equals five, then you are mistaken. Two plus two is always four. That is truth. Similarly, snow is white always. That is truth. When you think it is red, it is untruth. But you cannot say it is another type of truth. Mistake cannot be accepted as another type of truth. Mistake is mistake.