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Marriage (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"marriage" |"marriageable" |"marriages" |"married" |"marries" |"marrige" |"marry" |"marrying" |"matrimonial" |"remarriage" |"remarried" |"remarry" |"wedlock"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like student. Then he becomes a family man when he's grown up. Then he becomes again a sannyāsī. So it is a process. It is not jumping. One after another.

Guest (4): Yes, but would you allow one of the devotees to, if he wants to, observe celibacy and then...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is brahmacārī.

Guest (4): And after that...

Prabhupāda: After that, he should continue the life of celibacy. But if he is unable, then he's allowed to marry.

Guest (4): Because (Sanskrit). You cannot suppress your karma.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of supressing. Regulating.

Guest (5): Do the same rules apply to women as to men?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the society women, working class, and the mercantile class, they are, according to Vedic scripture, they are less intelligent, women, working class and mercantile men. Just like mercant..., they are after money, that's all. And śūdra, they want, after job. And women means they are after fulfilling their material desires. They have no other idea, that there is Brahmān, one should know Brahmān... They do not care to know. Therefore they are called śūdras, stri, śūdra, vaiśya. Yes. Vaiśya.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: So the business of human life is to revive our lost relationship with God. So if we miss, then I may get another body, not even human body. Then I miss the opportunity. There are 8,400,000 types of forms. Just like the trees, they are all... (break) ...human form of life. And that may take millions of years. So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. (break) ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacārī, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacārī. Brāhme carati iti brahmacārī. He is simply interested in Brahmān. That is called brahmacārī. He has no material interest. That is the foundation of spiritual life. Brahmacārī. And if he can, he remains brahmacārī throughout the whole life. But if he is unable, then he is allowed to marry, gṛhastha. So according to Vedic civilization, any education should begin at childhood. Therefore even one is king's son, he was sent to Gurukula to remain as brahmacārī to learn the basic principle of life. That is Vedic civilization.
Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Everyone has relationship, all living entities.

Brahmānanda: He is Viśvambhara, means the maintainer of all living entities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prince of Wales. Prince of Wales, I think this, I think he is dead now. King Edward, I mean to say, George's elder brother? No, not George's. George VI. Is there an elder brother? Edward? When he was Prince of Wales he was actually to be the emperor, or King of England. But he married one common girl, and therefore he was refused. So he, as Prince of Wales, he went to India. And when he saw the bright sunshine, he was surprised. (laughter) Yes.

Brahmānanda: He had never seen.

Prabhupāda: He, or before him, another prince. Because that Prince of... We were at that time children. So I think King George V, when he was Prince of Wales.

Brahmānanda: Oh, when he came to Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen. We were school children at that time. So on the two sides of the road, our first place was, the king, queen passed, we saw. We were given a flag. (laughter) "Jaya Rāja, Rājeśvara." We were... And very good tiffin was supplied. Two samosa, two kachori, two sandeśa, and one big tangerine. Twice I saw. Once when he entered Calcutta, and again, one day, when there was a parade of military... military parade. So both days we were invited, and we saw the king.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: You are not as old as I am. What is your age?

Ambassador: I am fifty-six.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are just like my child. My first child was born 1921. What is your birth date?

Ambassador: That was three years earlier. So there you are.

Prabhupāda: 1918? In that year I was married. I was student at that time. I was student, 1900 up to '20. Then I joined Gandhi's noncooperation movement and gave up my education. His points were to give up English education, English court, English-manufactured goods, in this way.

Ambassador: How did you feel about Gandhiji spiritually?

Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.

Ambassador: That's what I wondered. I never met him. I don't know. But he said himself, "I may be a saint among politicians, but I'm a politician among saints." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, this (indistinct) In the world I have come to know mostly, I have never seen any, except the word is a true couple. They are married means sex life...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (2): Except devotees, which after contacting, I haven't seen any (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, the whole world is going on. Married life means legalized prostitution. That is their philosophy. So therefore they are, in the Western world, they do not like to marry. And this is also prostitution; that is also prostitution. So let us go on with our illegal prostitution. Why legal prostitution? This is the philosophy. And that is the Freud philosophy. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Guest (2): Even Indians, the same. I...

Prabhupāda: The Indians, European, doesn't matter. The whole human society is like that.

Haṁsadūta: His idea is why should we make this sex life so cumbersome by marriage?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Avoid it.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So he was doing all, everything.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. So she said, "Oh, he is not Hindu," according to them.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot be God. (laughter)

Paramahaṁsa: So she said instead my other son is God. He is very... Also she was a little angry because Guru Maharaj-ji's wife, that American wife that he got, who used to be his secretary—after they were married, in all the temples, their ashrams all over the world, they used to have that Bal Yogeshwara's picture and then his mother's picture. But now they took the mother's picture down and put the wife's picture up. So the mother was very angry. Therefore she kicked them both out, and now her picture and another son is on the altar.

Prabhupāda: Another son. So they're accepting.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes. He was actually popular anyway, the other son. He was almost as popular as Bal Yogeshwara. He's the older son. He's a jazz musician, so they like it.

Prabhupāda: Jazz? What is that jazz?

Paramahaṁsa: American music. Something like rock and roll. It is modern music.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, how he learned? He is Indian.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The śāstra has... It is lusty desire, that's all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). It is all discussed in the śāstra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say "legalized prostitution." They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life. So the gṛhastha life is a concession-same lusty desire under rules and regulation. That's all. That is our higher... (?) Without married life he will commit rapes in so many ways, so better let him be satisfied with one, both the man and woman, and make progress in spiritual life. That is concession. Everyone in this material world has come with these lusty desires and greediness. Even demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... The Lord Brahmā became lusty after his daughter. And Lord Śiva became so mad after Mohinī-murti. So what to speak of us insignificant creatures. So lusty desire is there. That is material world. Unless one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, this lusty desire cannot be checked. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nescience, yes. That is pravṛtti and nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means sense enjoyment. And nivṛtti means self-negation. So when we say that "You shall not have illicit sex," and their inclination is illicit sex, so therefore it is revolutionary. They are materialistic persons. They want sex enjoyment to the best capacity-homosex, this sex, that sex, naked dance, all sexually inclined, pravṛtti. And we say, "Stop this," nivṛtti. They do not like it because āsura. Pravṛtti jagat. They do not know this is essential. They do not know it. This is essential. Tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means brahmacarya. The so-called swamis, they are coming for this so-called yoga practice and..., but they are themself victim of sex. This is going on. Actually, it is a bluff—they have become swami and teaching some yoga system—because they do not know that one has to stop this first of all. Brahmacaryena. So this bluffing is going on all over the world, and we are speaking just against them. Murkhayopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you give instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry. He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravṛtti-mārga. Therefore they are bringing somebody, "Our interpretation is like this." Pravṛtti-mārga. Because if they can find out some support from the śāstra, then they think, "We are secure." This is going on. Pravṛttim ca nivṛttim janā na vidur āsurāḥ. The whole world is full of asuras, descendant of Hiraṇyakaśipu, and it is very difficult. But if we give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, gradually they will understand. (pause) Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravṛtti-mārga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravṛtti-mārga. So they are passing, "Yes, you can have homosex with man." They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking... They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see. Simply by dressing long, what is called, overcoat?

Śrutakīrti: Cloak.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is being misinterpreted still now. That means it was violated from the very beginning. And they are violating. "Thou shall not kill"; he is killing. That's all. That is the position.

Paramahaṁsa: They also have that "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what is the value now of this priestly class?

Paramahaṁsa: They have another thing now where they, a man goes to the doctor and has an operation to change his sex from man to woman.

Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Or from woman to man. That's called transvestites.

Prabhupāda: That is going on?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Successful?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, sometimes. Sometimes they have some difficulties, but they have had many successful operations. (break) She can't have... It can't have a baby. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They are doing?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they're changing, but they can't become pregnant. That's the only thing. They take these special hormones, and then they can grow breasts and everything just like a woman. But they can't become pregnant.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: That man last night admitted. He said, "Now I must leave and do my fourth-class activities."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful. It is sinful. According to Vedic conception, these four things are sinful activities, four pillars. Just like four pillars, the legs of this table, similarly, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling are the four legs of sinful life.

Guest (1): What do you consider illicit sex?

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex means animal life. The marriage is in the human society, not in the dog society. So if one has illicit sex, that means he is no better than dog.

Guest (2): I don't quite understand that. Did you say that illicit means sex between people who are not married?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is allowed only married couple. And that is also only for begetting child.

Guest (1): Married under what law? Under what religion? Under what religious law?

Prabhupāda: There is in Bhagavad-gītā, that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out. You can come here and read.

Paramahaṁsa: Which was that? Dharma...

Prabhupāda: Dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi.

Paramahaṁsa: Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu?

Prabhupāda: No, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Dharma-aviruddha. You know that verse.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Guest (2): The question was which religion, which religious principle?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, he means our marriage under... We accept that marriage, sex life in marriage, is licit, not illicit. So he asked, "Under what religious principles or under which religion?"

Prabhupāda: Any religion. Christian religion does not allow illicit sex. No adultery.

Guest (2): Any religious principles?

Prabhupāda: This is religious principle. In the animal kingdom there is no marriage, but in the human society—may be Christian, may be Hindu, may be Muslim—there is marriage system. That is religious system.

Guest (2): Is polygamy illicit?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (2): Not illicit. But it is...

Prabhupāda: Polygamy means if it is married. Just like in the Vedic society they used to marry many wives. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. And He maintained them sixteen thousand palaces. And He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand Kṛṣṇas. So that is a different thing; He is God. But if you can maintain each and every wife, you can marry more than one wife. But if you are unable to maintain, that is illicit. All the kṣatriya kings, they used to marry more than one wife. Still in India, the kṣatriyas, kings, they have more than one wife. But they maintain very nicely.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Powder ḍāl, then I can show you how to do it.

Madhudviṣa: Powder ḍāl. We can put the ḍāl in a grinder...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Madhudviṣa: ...and grind it up.

Prabhupāda: Now it is not (indistinct). The widows, because widows, there is no widow marriage. So widows, they earn their livelihood by making pāpad and guri. They prepare at home guri, pāpad, and sell and make their livelihood.

Madhudviṣa: You have said that you have nullified the law of gravity, but how can we explain that everything is falling down?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the green leaves not falling down—the dry leaves falling down, under certain condition. So it is not the law of gravitation. Why the green leaves does not fall down? Only the rejected things are falling. The rejected, you also throw away, so nature is throwing away. Where is the question of gravity?

Madhudviṣa: When they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have...

Prabhupāda: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: Take sex, how can that be considered...?

Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.

Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.

Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?

Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.

Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.

Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...

Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Not everything is good. The pigs considers stool is very good, nice food.

Jesuit: Every man is made with sex appetites. Every man is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.

Jesuit: No, I can't accept that.

Prabhupāda: Now why you do not accept? In the Christian religion there is unmarried life.

Jesuit: Married life is a good life. The use of sex is good.

Prabhupāda: Good?

Jesuit: Eating is good. If it's abused it's bad.

Prabhupāda: No. Married life is good, that if you follow the rules and regulations. Otherwise...

Jesuit: Therefore sex, in itself, is good.

Prabhupāda: Sex is good, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Find out, balaṁ balavatām asmi dharma..., like that.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Their "thinking" means they are not fixed up. That very word suggest that they are not fixed up. Oh, initiation can take place anywhere.

Śrutakīrti: He's saying those that are initiated, must they live in the temple? He's making the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, must follow the regulative principle, not that must live in temple.

Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can one use marriage to reach back home, go back to Godhead? How can one use the sacrifice of marriage...

Prabhupāda: Marriage done, that... (?) Yes, marriage must be done in the temple. What is this sound? (break) This lake is being filled up or...?

Devotee (1): ...construction.

Devotee (2): They're remodeling the garden, expanding the lake

Prabhupāda: Oh. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Advancing.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see, foolishness. But at least somewhere there is no equal right in the lavatory. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greeting someone) I have received your letter, you can see me. (break) (Conversation continues in the car) This too much intermingling of woman means the path of hell. Therefore the restriction is that only the married couple can freely mix, not others. Mahat-sevāṁ dvār... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They are not interested associating with devotees. They are interested associating with man or woman, that's all. Woman is interested to associate with man, and man is interested to associate with woman. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore the civilization is becoming hellish. It is already said in the śāstra. One should associate with spiritually advanced men, but that is not being done. Now the woman is hankering after man, man is hankering after woman. Yoṣit saṅg... Yoṣit means for sense gratification. Tamo-dvāram. This is the path of darkness.

Just like the priest was saying, "Oh, sex is very nice. Why you stop?" Just see. And he is a priest. Why the Roman Catholics they are ordered not to marry? Why? Roman Catholic are supposed... the fathers and priests, they should remain unmarried, is it not?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. They remain celibate. He was saying that it is a personal preference.

Devotee: They have no general rule. It's just that if you want to be celibate, then that's very nice, but if you want to have sex life...

Prabhupāda: Then why they have recommended this, unless there is some benefit?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that knowledge has been lost through the years. A few hundred years ago, many of the celibates were also vegetarian, but all that has changed.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: That's cases we deal with. Adoption, and...

Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.

Director: And now divorce is getting easier too, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court." This is going on. So the first defect is there is divorce law. Another defect is that there is no method how to train a man to become first class. That is there in the Vedic civilization. Now of course in India that is also now abolished by degradation.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But it would be very difficult for the people who start out with us. Would be possible with the kids that start out with us.

Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.

A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don't mind, I don't find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?

Director: But homosexual is a sickness.

Devotee: He said it's an illness.

Director: It's an illness. It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can't punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.

Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Director: What you people say what ideal to you is not ideal to somebody else?

Prabhupāda: I am giving the example ideal character.

Director: Yeah, but that's one opinion.

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: If I advise somebody that "Do not have illicit sex." Have you got any objection?

Director:. Yes, I have...

Prabhupāda: You have illicit... If I say...

Director: I like sex, and my wife likes sex. We just enjoy, we couldn't live without it. Our marriage is happier because we have sex.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (chuckling) This is the position.

Director: That is the position. We are both...

Prabhupāda: So how they have accepted? (Referring to disciples)

Director: I don't know. I don't know, but I couldn't. Our life is enjoying sex, and our marriage is happier with sex.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't prohibit sex. But we prohibit...

Director: ...don't have two children...

Prabhupāda: ...illicit sex.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Devotee: In Hong Kong?

Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Because they are animal. They are educated like animal.

Australian devotee 2: So it is the fault of the education.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the responsibility of the government, guardians, father. They do not give them proper education. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "If you cannot give proper education to your children, then don't marry. Don't become father." That is contraceptive. If you are unable to give... What is that? Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Samupeta-mṛtyum: this body means you have accepted death. This body means, material body. So one should not become a father if he cannot stop the death of his son. That is the Vedic injunction. "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot train your children so that he may be saved from this impending death." That is the instruction. And who is doing that? Their philosophy is: "After death everything is finished. I will be finished. My child will be finished. That's all."

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Gurukṛpa: "That's all right, though. We have been saved. We have been saved by Christ. We have accepted the baptism, so we are saved."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the use of their church and preaching?

Devotee: Well, we want to tell the others so they can also be saved.

Prabhupāda: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They're supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.

Bali-mardana: Now they are making women the priests.

Prabhupāda: Women priest. Women priest, there was none before?

Bali-mardana: No.

Gurukṛpa: Still not very much.

Bali-mardana: The Protestants.

Gurukṛpa: That is a nice pandal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall go farther or return? (break)

Gurukṛpa: He was from a small city. He knew us, and he'd seen us before. People, they can't help but notice us. (break)

Devotee (2): ...follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness very strictly and very seriously like, say, for the rest of our lives, is there a chance that we'll be able to see Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa in this life?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. You read Bhagavad-gītā?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...in Bhāgavata also that after passing one hundred life of first-class karmī one can become Brahmā. And after becoming Brahmā, he goes directly back to home, back to Godhead. (break) ...this dissolution, Brahmā hasn't got to die. By the same body he goes. (break) All the inhabitants of Brahmaloka they also go with Brahmā. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...have sex outside of marriage, any of these activities. And they're not supposed to eat meat unless it's in time of famine or absolute necessity. They have a whole city. It's called Salt Lake City in Utaḥ that's all practically their followers. (break)

Ambarīṣa: In Salt Lake City they don't have bars.

Siddha-svarūpa: There's no bars in the city of Salt Lake. There's no drinking establishments or pornographic movies and these things.

Prabhupāda: So when they started?

Siddha-svarūpa: About 150 years ago or 125 years ago I believe. Isn't it? A hundred years ago.

Ambarīṣa: I don't know when they found those documents. A lot of them are still secret. They won't... A lot of them are like books about what's going to happen in the future, and they keep them somewhere. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...system of having more than one wife, that a holy person or religious man had the duty to take on and give protection to more than one woman because there weren't enough righteous men and there were more women that needed protection than there were righteous men. So if there was a righteous man, it was his duty to protect more than one wife. But nowadays I think they are having some trouble keeping that in the United States. That is one thing the Christians became very... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...preach.

Devotee: Yes, that's... (break)

Ambarīṣa: Bali and I were discussing that the other day. Bali-mardana and I. Maybe when I come back here to live, maybe after Christmas, he and I, we'll see if we can work out... He knows some people that are in the movie business.

Siddha-svarūpa: Which actors?

Prabhupāda: Actors, we shall play. They haven't got to pay for us.

Ambarīṣa: He was thinking also maybe to make it an epic picture of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: The boys and girls live in the same residence on the same floors and use the same bathrooms. Practically there is no restriction on the association. They're not married.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Congress just passed a law that the health education, means the gym, gymnastic classes... Every day there's physical education class?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must be co-educational. They must be. They passed a law like that.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Soon they'll get so disgusted with this association, they'll all want to become brahmacārīs.

Revatīnandana: When we noticed that this amusement pier was torn down, I didn't think that it meant that they were less interested in amusement, but they have become more degraded in their approach. The amusement pier... They come here instead to be naked on the beach for their amusement. Or they stay home and use intoxicants mostly. That is increasing. (break) ...like a prostitute house. And almost every place they are, not even one part of the city anymore, but you see them everywhere.

Prabhupāda: The woman gives massage?

Revatīnandana: Yes. Always advertising, "Beautiful young girls to massage you."

Dharmādhyakṣa: This is open prostitution now. They advertise very, very, very badly.

Bahulāśva: We had a hearing in Berkeley for our temple, whether or not we could live there, and some neighbors were saying that "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people are no good because they don't have any sex life and don't take any intoxication."

Jayatīrtha: "They hate sex, they hate women, they hate drugs..."

Bahulāśva: They said, "They are too pure. They will make this whole place... They'll take over this whole place."

Devotee: "They'll convert the whole neighborhood."

Dharmādhyakṣa: "They're trying to subvert and infiltrate our philosophy into their neighborhood."

Prabhupāda: So they are coming to know what we are. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think if you don't think of a woman, then that is not good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're abnormal.

Indian guest: That's right. They think you are abnormal. That's right. Over there something like divorce and the crisis, one woman marrying ten husband or going around..., those kind of... I don't anybody in India who has been divorced. I don't know personally. So it's different level.

Prabhupāda: No, amongst the mass of people in India, still there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not vanished. Because by culture, by taking birth in India that is inherent. India is so great.

Indian guest: The one problem over there: it's very hard to find a pure devotee or real...

Prabhupāda: Because their leaders have gone dead. The leaders are Jawaharlal Nehru and company.

Indian guest: They have destroyed. The Nehru family has destroyed India. He was atheist.

Prabhupāda: Even Gandhi, even Gandhi.

Indian guest: Gandhi believed in God, but Nehru didn't believe in God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. Everyone believes in God. That is another thing, but one must know who is God. That is advancement. Here also, the people say, "God, God is great." But as soon God comes, "Here I have come," they don't believe it.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is my question. (break) Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. He says, viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Viṣa, viṣa means poison. "In the pot of poison, if there is little nectar in, take it." Viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Poison is not to be touched, but if there is little nectar in, take it. And amedhyād api kāñcanam: "And in a filthy place there is gold. Take it." Not that gold has been polluted because it is in the filthy place. If there is gold in the filthy place, don't hesitate. Take it. And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Generally, people used to take education from brāhmaṇa. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita advises that "If there is education, actual education, even he is a lower class man, śūdra or caṇḍāla, take it. Accept him as master." And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. And in India, according to Vedic civilization, the marriage is done after seeing the family tradition very scrutinizingly. So here it is advised that duṣkulād api, "In a abominable family, if there is nice girl, educated, beautiful, accept her. Accept her." Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnam. Ratnam means jewel. Wife, she is like jewel although born of a low family, accept. So anything very good, even it is available from a place which is not desirable, one should accept it. So if you are actually seeking after God, so here is God available from Vedic literature. Why don't you take it? Why you should refuse it? That is not very good sign.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you have given up the Vaiṣṇava-sadācāra for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.

Devotee (1): But we have also maintained the Vaiṣṇava-sadācāra. They didn't tell us...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do that. But they do not see whether you are maintaining.

Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on saṅkīrtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacārīs in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.

Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...

Prabhupāda: So how they can follow you?

Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupāda, that these are some problems.

Prabhupāda: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaiṣṇava ācāra. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?

Bhāvānanda: That when you marry, then you are married eternally. And after you die, you go to heaven and you live with your family, your wife and your children, for ever and ever. That's their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Marry?

Bhāvānanda: Eternal marriage. And when you die, you go to heaven in the same body that you're in.

Brahmānanda: If you don't get married, then you don't go to heaven?

Bhāvānanda: Everyone gets married. They have a nice policy from the year nineteen to twenty-one every man must serve missionary work all over the world, and then he comes back and is married eternally. (break) And movie theaters, eight movie theaters.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...this way or that way? (break) What is that?

Sudāmā: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.

Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.

Sudāmā: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it evidently, so the water is backing up with stools.

Devotee: (break) In Dvārakā, did Kṛṣṇa's queens play tennis?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvārakā they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. (break) ...playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: What happens when women support men?

Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand that you depend. The... After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.

Woman reporter: Do you think the social unrest...

Prabhupāda: I am thinking like this. You give me the answer. Simply you go on questioning. I question you, do you think this burden to the government or the public is good?

Woman reporter: I don't understand what you're saying.

Nitāi: Do you think that the burden caused when the husband goes away from the wife, that burden to the government is good?

Woman reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: So that has happened. Because the woman does not agree to be subordinate—she wants equal freedom—so the husband goes away and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden to the government.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. I have got my temple there. I stay there, and I teach people according to my philosophy.

Woman reporter: Is Philadelphia your last stop in...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I travel all over United States. Then I will go to Europe. Then I will go to Africa. I have got my touring program for 4 months. (break)

Woman reporter: There's one more question I'm going to ask. Is that tea? Is that tea that you're drinking?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't drink tea. We don't drink tea, don't drink liquor. We don't smoke. This is our process, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Unless one is married, there is no sex. And unless one is going to beget child, there is no sex. Not for pleasure. This is our regulative principle.

Woman reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.

Woman reporter: There is one more question.

Prabhupāda: Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.

Woman reporter: Everyone should marry?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.

Woman reporter: Is allowed?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because every woman must be married. But every man may not be married. Therefore man has to accept more than one wife.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Now, woman is supposed to be assistant of man. If woman is faithful wife of the first-class man, then she also becomes first-class. If she is assistant of the second-class man then he is also second-class. If she is assistant of the third-class man, then she is also third-class. Because she is assistant, so, according to her husband, or protector, she becomes first, second, third, fourth.

Reporter (3): But she doesn't have any structure at all until marriage?

Prabhupāda: No, she has got structure—she has got brain. I have already told. But not as good as man's brain.

Reporter (3): You means she's not qualified as first, second, or third-class until she marries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Woman requires to be protected—in childhood by the father, in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by the elderly sons.

Reporter (2): What is your feeling in regard to Mrs. Gandhi's actions in India at the present time, particularly in relation to what you're saying about women? Is what's happening there because she has a thirty-six ounce brain and is incapable of ruling?

Prabhupāda: Well, what is scientific proof, that is equally applicable to Mrs. Gandhi or to any ordinary woman.

Reporter: Is she having problems because she is a woman, though? If a man were in her position...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why you are trying to put me in the emergency law? (laughter)

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Her chastity was her great virtue.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the thing.

Brahmānanda: Nowadays that is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays may be different, but I am speaking of the Vedic ideas, that woman in all circumstances, unless the husband is crazy or something like that, mad, or..., in every case the instance is that wife is faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Even the husband goes out of home, vānaprastha, the wife also goes with him. When he takes sannyāsa, at that time there is no accompaniment of wife. Otherwise in gṛhastha life and even vānaprastha life, the wife is constant companion and subservient. That is the history of Vedic culture. History, Gāndhārī, because her husband was blind, so when the marriage settlement was done, she was not blind, but she voluntarily became blind by wrapping cloth.

Devotee (2): She remained with the cloth wrapped for her whole life?

Prabhupāda: Whole life.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that "I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste." What do you think?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven't, that's all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right?

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction.

Sandy Nixon: No distinction...

Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śvapāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

We do not refuse anyone. That is equality.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this is my (indistinct). That's all.

Woman: At what point was it that he told you to do this? It was very late in your life that you...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When I was twenty-five years old I met him first. On the first meeting he ordered me to this. So at that time I was married man. I had two children. So I thought, "I shall do it later on." But I was trying to get out of family life. It took some time. But I was trying my best to carry out his order. In 1944 I started magazine, Back to Godhead, when I was gṛhastha. Then I started writing books in 1958 or '59. In this way in 1965 I came to your country.

Woman: You have said that you are very small and that you are not God, and yet it appears to me as an outsider that the devotees treat you as if you were God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotee's duty. Just like a government officer. Personally he is not very important, but so long he executes government order, he should be respected as government. That is the way. Even a ordinary policeman comes, you have to respect him because he is government man. But that does not mean he is government. He is respected. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. If that man thinks that "I have become government. People are respecting me," then he is foolish. So... But it is the etiquette. If the government man comes, you should respect him as government.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana there is no work. Outside Vṛndāvana there is killing of the demons. When He came out of Vṛndāvana, he began His business by killing His uncle, that Kaṁsa. Then so many other demons came, one after another. He had to fight. Even He had to marry by fighting.

Bahulāśva: Kṣatriya marriage?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Even rākṣasa marriage.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya marriage, without fighting, there is no kṣatriya marriage. For one prince, there are so many candidates. So they must fight between themselves and decide who is the hero. Then he will be allowed to marry. There was no such freedom: the princess are loitering in the street and you can take as many as you like.

Devotee: The price was blood, huh?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Plenty blood.

Prabhupāda: That is prince. They are not cheap, loitering street. Every father of the prince made some bet. Just like Arjuna got Draupadī. How difficult it was! There was a fish on the ceiling, and you cannot see in this way. You have to see. There is a water pot, and you have to pierce the eyes of the fish. Then you will get this prince. So many failure. It is not so easy job, see the eyes from the shadow, and in this way you have to pierce. It is not so easy job.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Citsukhānanda: I think this was the case with the Swedish book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife he gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms, not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days, no. Ready (indistinct). And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha... No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa, a Guruji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.

Morning Walk -- July 30, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: ...reason it is advised that the father must get the daughter married. Otherwise these things will happen, loose society. (break) ...location of the Hyatt (?) (Hunt?) House is very nice. (break) ...the horse is the most beautiful.

Satsvarūpa: More beautiful than the cow?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: More than the cow.

Prabhupāda: Cow is not very beautiful. (laughter) (break) ...in the human society the Jews are most beautiful. Is it a fact? Jews? Yehudi.(?)

Satsvarūpa: Each group says that they're the most beautiful. (laughter) The blacks say they are beautiful, and the whites say...

Prabhupāda: No, impartially. That everyone will say, "I am beautiful." Hippies also beautiful. Lavanyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. (break) ...dirty water.

Devotee: What is that?

Prabhupāda: The water is dirty. Why? Not very clean.

Kāśīrama: It is misused.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kāśīrama: The water is not... They don't allow people to swim in it because it is so dirty. Swimming is prohibited. (end)

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: That is time for punishment. They should build up their character, śamaḥ, damaḥ, fully controlled. When they like, they become gṛhasthas. Otherwise they are controlled. That is brāhmaṇa. For brāhmaṇa it is not compulsory to marry. Kṣatriyas may marry more than one wife. They can take. So all girls must be married. That is... They must...They must have one husband, even the husband has got fifty wives. Then the problem of girls' marriage will be solved. And as soon as one girl is pregnant, she should be separated.

Hṛdayānanda: From the husband.

Prabhupāda: At least for one and half years.

Upendra: At the moment of pregnancy? From the moment of pregnancy one and a half years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pregnancy is understood at three months. From that month till further, sixteen months at least, she should not come to be near husband. That is eka-kadi (?). The child does not live. And they are not inclined to come unless a man induces. So the man, if he has got more than one wife, so man will not disturb her. And she will take rest for the next eighteen months. So after ten months she will give birth to the child, and for six months continually she will take care of the child. Feeding the child with breast milk, the child will be healthy. If the child can take mother's milk for six months at least continually, he'll become healthy for life.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Satsvarūpa: It's not allowed in this country. It's illegal. It's against the law.

Devotee: It's against the law.

Nityānanda: No, it's a matter of... No one knows who is married or unmarried, but if you have...

Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult.

Satsvarūpa: Well, the other difficulty, you brought this up several years ago, was that the men who take many wives have to be very select. Otherwise men will be attracted to join our movement for sex life, having different wives.

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: If you don't call wife, you can have. The law allows you to keep boyfriend, girlfriend. Then the... Instead of calling "husband," call "friend." That's all. But, er, it is risky and the man must be responsible to keep... To keep more than one wife by trained-up man is not disallowed.

Brahmānanda : But I think they thought that he could get it legally established, at least in the state of California.

Prabhupāda: Well then go and marry there. If the state of California allows that, then they all can go to California.

Nityānanda: The general public objects to that... It's very...

Prabhupāda: Public we don't care. We... What is the public? We have got our own public here. So pub... What is the public? All rascals. They are killing cows and drinking and topless dance, bottomless dance. What is the value of this public? All rascals. I don't give any importance to this class of public, only after sense gratification, that's all. They have no ideals of life. They do not know what is God. What is the value of this public? Mūḍhas, they have been described, mūḍhas. You know the meaning of mūḍha?

Devotee (1): Ass.

Prabhupāda: Ass. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Devotee (1): Just like Nanda Mahārāja, he also had land. Nanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then Mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident. They'll enter into the mouth of Aghasura. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is there. He will kill." This is Vṛndāvana. There is no need and I don't find in Bhāgavata big factory and slaughterhouse, no. Nothing. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with sinful life. How people will be happy? Now they are coming to crimes and hippies and so many things, problems, diplomacy, CIA and what other? So many unnecessary waste of energy, time, and money. Vicious condition. Better give up city. Make Vṛndāvana, like this. City life is abominable. If you don't live in the city, you don't require petrol, motor car. It is no use. They may criticize that "You are going to the farm in a car." So for the time being, there is no vehicle. Otherwise bullock cart—where is the difficulty? Suppose you are coming, one hour, and it takes one day. And if you are satisfied, such life, there is no question of moving. Maybe local moving, from this village to that village. That is sufficient, bullock carts. Why motor car? Drive here and park problem. Not only park problem, there are so many things. There are three thousand parts, motor car. You have to produce them, big factory.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The whole civilization is based on how to enjoy sex very nicely. This is their basic principle of civilization.

Brahmānanda: Always on the best-seller charts of the books there is always some book about how to enjoy sex.

Prabhupāda: Just see. There are books here also, Kāma-śāstra. So sex enjoyment also you cannot enjoy unlimitedly. Then you will become impotent. Then you will have to call your wife as "mother," as some saintly person did. He was indulging in sex in his young age, and when he was married he saw himself impotent, and therefore he invented some way that "I have realized Brahman. I can call my wife also 'mother.' " And he became famous—"Oh, he is so advanced. He has learned how to..." But in the history we will not find this. Even Vyāsadeva had his wife, but he never said his wife, "mother."

Brahmānanda: Actually you're supposed to see other women as mother.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But not one's own wife.

Prabhupāda: No. Para-dāreṣu. Mātravat para-dareṣu. That is the injunction of the śās... Other's wife. Not that "Oh, my wife is also my mother." Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...the President's life is not safe, and there is no problem. What to speak of others.

Dhanañjaya: An intelligent man will go completely insane because he can't solve the problems...

Prabhupāda: The solution is there.

Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.

Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)

Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is going on. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Upendra: In America they say you have to pay for freedom.

Prabhupāda: No, freedom, if I have got already, why shall I pay? I have already paid. Why you're inducing? I am already enjoying. Why you are inducing me to work hard? I have paid for it. By my karma in my previous life I have already paid for that; therefore I am enjoying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't believe in the law of karma.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.

Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? (aside) Jaya. Relaxation. If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Harikeśa: Sometimes they argue that only a small...

Prabhupāda: This is argument. This is argument, that it is not fact. Let them... Women has agreed not to have sex with man. Then close all these maternity hospitals. That is the only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. The husband and wife, they, I mean to say, mix together only for this, especially in this age. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. They get married only for sex pleasure, not for any other purpose. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. Otherwise the purpose is husband and wife together, they will worship Laksmi-Narayana and become perfect. That is the description given in Puṁsavana. You will get the statement there how the husband and wife is advised to worship Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa. Therefore you will find in Hindu culture, every family, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa worship, the husband and wife. Still there are, there is some glimpse of human civilization in India. So we can revive it. In Bhogilal's house there is no dog.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: Yes. Śiva temple.

Prabhupāda: Newly constructed?

Kartikeya: No, it is quite old, but they go on adding small buildings for the public hall and all those. Suppose you have to have some program. They can give us a hall for marriage and for...

Harikeśa: This is where we had the paṇḍāl in 1972?

Kartikeya: No, it was a little bit on the other side. It was very near to this place.

Harikeśa: Stayed in Nasi? (?)

Kartikeya: Ah, you stayed here.

Prabhupāda: We shall go this way?

Kartikeya: You can go in the garden.

Prabhupāda: (break) He is going out of station? (break) ...such parks as in America.

Kartikeya: No. They are going out

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...erly kept. (break) This is the condition of every city. In America also this. This is artificial living. It cannot go on very nicely. (break) ...description of nice city in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but we don't get any information of municipality. And big, big lakes in the city.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (4): Swamiji, one thing I want to know. This śloka, from where you have got it, this śloka, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam? This śloka, lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is in the third chapter of Twelfth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Have you got our Bhāgavata, Twelfth Canto?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't have it with me.

Prabhupāda: So you can note down. There are many things, that, that dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "A family life means sex life." And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. All these symptoms which are now going on, that is foretold five thousand years ago in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Svīkāra eva hi udvāhe: "Marriage will be by agreement." These things are there. That I have...

Indian man: (indistinct-loud static)

Prabhupāda: No, but just like you know in the rainy season there will be heavy rainfall, but you can protect yourself. You can get raincoat, you can get umbrella. Then you will... (break) So you cannot stop the rainy season, but you can protect yourself. (break) ...so many Africans. We have many Africans, devotees.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Patram means vegetable, leaves; puṣpam, flower. In this way, whatever He says, you collect and offer to Him and take prasādam. Then you are not responsible. And if you collect for yourself even patram without offering to Kṛṣṇa, if you take, you are responsible for killing. It doesn't matter whether you kill a big animal or a small plant. You are responsible. Just like a soldier. He kills hundreds and thousands of men and he is given gold medal. And as soon as he kills one man for his sense gratification he is hanged. Eh? Is it not? He can say, "I have killed so many men. At that time I was not hanged. I was given gold medal. How is that? (laughter) I have killed only one man. I am going to be hanged?" That is law. You cannot do anything on your own account, sense gratification. Then you are responsible. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'ya karma-bandhanaḥ. Everything is stated. Read Bhagavad-gītā very thoroughly and try to understand. Then everything will be clear, how to live, how to organize society. We have to live. The same thing: we are also working, we are also eating, we are sleeping, we are also marrying—but according to Kṛṣṇa's direction. Then it is Kṛṣṇa conscious life and perfect life. And as soon as you do anything whimsically, at your will, then you are responsible. Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, and His representative is explaining. In both ways Kṛṣṇa is helping. So even so much facility being offered to you, if you don't take advantage, then you are committing suicide. Ātmahā. Ātmahā. Just like the sea is now calm and quiet. If you want to go somewhere, take advantage of it. And if you start your boat while it is cyclone, then you'll be drowned. So Kṛṣṇa has left the book of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is favorable condition. And the spiritual master is the captain, and you take advantage. Your, this human body is a good boat. So good boat, favorable condition, good captain—take advantage of crossing this ocean. Otherwise you are committing suicide. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to cross over this ocean of nescience, but these are the favorable conditions. One should take advantage of these favorable conditions and cross over this ocean of nescience.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?

Guest (1): No, Swamijī.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: You are Gujarati? So you have been in India? (break)

Indian man: ...my dad stopped... (break) ...Nairobi... (break) Indian parents are, they try to grab hold of you before you can go away. He thought that I won't come back or something.

Prabhupāda: So he was right, your father.

Indian man: He was right. Yes. Well, you see, I didn't want to come back and get married and all that, you see? And then he forced me to get married.

Prabhupāda: Where you married? Here?

Indian man: Here, Durban.

Prabhupāda: You have got children?

Indian man: Yes. Two boys.

Prabhupāda: I was talking just now that the Indians here are better situated than in India.

Indian man: Than in India. Correct.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi started his movement here. He was failure. But in India it is supposed to be successful. But at the present moment, after independence, Indians are very horribly situated.

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Live separately. But usually every Indian or European has one or two Africans living behind the house as servants, so there are many living in the cities. We have one African girl in Johannesburg. She works at the temple. We've called her Pārijāta. We have one African girl because when we first came there were only a few of us and we didn't want to take up time to clean up the temple for our preaching work. So she has to get up very early in the morning.

Prabhupāda: She was paid for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it facilitated our preaching work. At first, I was against the idea, but I found it was good.

Prabhupāda: No, it was not good to give, keep young unmarried girl.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She is married with children. She is older. Her husband was murdered.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in Johannesburg. We didn't pick any young African girl, older lady and very respectful, honest. She's about fifty years old.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Her husband was walking home one day, and African killed him.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just for money. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). Eh? Then?

Harikeśa: Rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caivam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caiva prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. Because they have taken the shelter of prakṛti, material nature, bewildered and captivated, they do not know what is the aim of life—moghāśā, "all baffled." Mogha karmāṇam: "Whatever they are doing, that will be useless." Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā: (BG 9.12) there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: His disciples gave him, Maharishi, four big pills of LSD.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maharishi?

Harikeśa: Yes. And he just stood there and said nothing happened. So everybody said, "This is proof that he's already there."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Because he just stood there and said, "Nothing is happening to me," everybody has figured that he is already there.

Prabhupāda: "There" means where?

Harikeśa: At the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Hell. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (break) Anyone who is thinking that they're happy is simply a rascal. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...saying the black man is not allowed to marry a white woman?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. Neither vice versa also. There is no intermarriage permitted here. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Any woman should be looked upon as mother. This is culture. Except his married wife, all women should be treated as mother. The brahmacārīs were taught like that, "Mother." This is culture. Simply they are trying to elope other's wife, other's woman, exploit them. And they're cultured. There is no culture at the present moment. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: "And others' money should be treated just like pebbles in the street." Nobody cares for it. So they are simply making plans how to grab others' money. And Ātmavat sarva bhūteṣu: "And if you feel pains and pleasure, you should consider for others also." If your throat is cut, then do you feel very happy? Why you are cutting the throats of the poor animals? Where is culture? There is no culture. Simply rogues and thieves and rascals and fools. Where is culture? They do not know what is the meaning of culture. Here is culture, three words:

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
He is cultured.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise just animal.

Prabhupāda: Simply animal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is very logical.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we call all the women "mother"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And treat it like mother. Not only call, but treat it like mother.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: Just like love between two persons, it cannot be forced. "You must love him. You must love her." Oh, that is no love. That is not love. When automatically you love one another, that is quality. Dora vede(?) prema. And therefore formerly, at least in the Indian society, at an early age they were married. There is no quality in that quality. But gradually, remaining together, the quality of love increases. Then the wife takes care of the husband, and the husband takes care. They become bound up, united in love. That is quality. In the beginning, what the child knows about love? No. But they are allowed to remain as husband and wife. They are thinking that "I have got my husband," "I have got my wife," and as the age increases, the dealings become intimate. Then they become affectionate. That is quality. Not in the beginning there is any quality. It is by the parents' arrangement. That's all. In our day, the marriage was performed when the girl is ten years, twelve years, nine years. Twelve years is very late marriage. My second sister, she became twelve years old. So my mother became so disturbed that "This girl is not being married. Shall I commit suicide?" Yes. You see? My eldest sister, she was nine years old, older than me, and she was married before my birth. And my mother-in-law was married at the age of seven years, and my father-in-law was eleven years. I was married... My wife was eleven years. So in this age there is no question of love. It is not that the husband and wife lives together, no. Unless the girl is grown up, she is not going to the husband. She remains with the father and mother. Sometimes they meet, and the wife is taught, giving some sweetmeat to the husband-official. Official. The parents of the girl: "Just go up to your husband and offer this." So she comes as obedient servant. But gradually they get the connection. In this way the love develops, and when they are fifteen, sixteen years old, they are allowed to live together. Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it. They may fight. The husband and wife fighting, that is not unusual. Therefore Canakya Paṇḍita says, "Fight between the husband, wife, never take it seriously." Daṁpatye kalahe caiva baṁbhāraṁbhe laghu-kriya: "They'll make all arambha, but it is not very important. Don't take." Next moment they will again live peacefully. So according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong. Even Gandhi's life, he fought with his wife and pushed her out of the house: "Get out, I don't want you." And Kasturabhai, she began to cry on the street, "Where shall I go? You have driven me away." Then Gandhi said, "Come on." Finished. (laughter) He has written in his life.
Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: Is it possible for a woman to become a brāhmaṇa?

Prabhupāda: He is... Woman is a brāhmaṇa's wife. Then she is automatically a brāhmaṇa.

Indian man (6): Suppose she doesn't want to get married for the rest of her life, just wants to serve the Lord?

Prabhupāda: So in his spiritual position everyone is a brāhmaṇa.

Brahmānanda: But you give brahminical initiation to unmarried women.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But on spiritual point she is brāhmaṇa. On the spiritual platform there is no such distinction.

Devotee (7): Oh, it's not possible for a woman to become a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (2): What is the position of the woman in a..., late in life, the wife of a devotee?

Prabhupāda: What is that position?

Brahmānanda: After the husband takes sannyāsa?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Brahmānanda: What is the duties of the woman after the husband takes sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: So remain a devotee, widow. She is not allowed to marry.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody landed. This is all bogus.

Dr. Patel: No, no, whatever he did... Let us... It is all bogus, but that man is divorced by his wife because he has lost his sex. Somebody told me.

Prabhupāda: There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.

Dr. Patel: You must tell any other good messages, how actually a marriage is, can be for production of good progeny...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Putrārthe kriyate bharyā putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This, the first, piṇḍa-dāna for maintaining family. But nowadays nobody wants offspring. They want to kill to avoid botheration.

Dr. Patel: First they prevent, and if by accident it happens, then they kill it. And the medical profession help them.

Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I am against it, no doubt. Once upon a time I used to be the doctor of all these so-called cinema actors and actresses, and you know their profession. And they are always falling prey of these sort of things, and they would come to me for relief, and I would refuse. So today I have none of them as my patient.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot relieve them.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why he committed suicide?

Dr. Patel: He burned himself by pouring kerosene on his clothes. You Nara, you are here, no?

Nara: Yes.

Dr. Patel: All his sisters are not married excepting one. They are forty, forty-five years.

Nara: (unclear) either man or woman (break)

Prabhupāda: ...worldwide known...

Dr. Patel: In the Christian religion.

Nara: He was a loafer. He was not having two meals a day. (break)

Brahmānanda: Yaśomatīnandana has a book, and he would like to read a few sentences from that book.

Prabhupāda: Which is that book?

Brahmānanda: Hm?

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Brahmānanda: Well, we thought that we could play a game that Dr. Patel, he could identify who has written this book.

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Dr. Patel: Please don't allow him to read. (laughter) Let us talk about Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Brahmānanda: This is Bhagavad-gītā.

Dr. Patel: You see, anything which is read out of context is no reading. You must read it reference to context. If you read some nonsense somebody must have spoken or written he's not all what he has written or spoken. So if Yaśomatīnandana reads that and Prabhupādajī talks something about the spirituality, no this moment... Because time is short and heart is long, and our heart is beating like muffled drums, so let us fulfill ourself before we die.

Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: Well, that he didn't say.

Prabhupāda: These are scientists, big men.

Girirāja: So the reporter asked him what were his personal plans for the future. So he said he likes one girl, so he wants to get married, and that's all.

Brahmānanda: Increase the population. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Our plan is the best because before meeting such catastrophes, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the best. They are seeing the catastrophe, but they have no way to escape. That is the difference between them and ourselves. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...said that "There is no need of God, but there is need of girl, of a girl." He said that. Then what is the difference between a scientist and a dog? The dog also does not know what is God, but another female dog he wants. Huh? What is the difference? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Then it is proved that he is no better than animal. The animal requires another opposite sex, but he does not know God. Then where is the difference? (break)

Brahmānanda: You know that the Detroit house, the house in Detroit? The president, he wrote in his letter. I neglected to ask you. He wanted to have a name for that temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: So Ambarisa prabhu says that he was thinking of New Keśighāṭa, because it's situated near the water.

Prabhupāda: Keśighāṭa we have already given in New Vṛn...

Ambarisa: It's right on a river. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...name that... Kṛṣṇa... They brought the assembly house from heaven and located in Dvāraka. There is a name like that. I shall give you the name.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When I was married, gold was at nineteen rupees and fifty paisa.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no.

Dr. Patel: In 1930.

Prabhupāda: Nineteen rupees?

Dr. Patel: Nineteen rupees and a half.

Prabhupāda: Per tola?

Dr. Patel: Per tola.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: In 1930. 1930, yes.

Indian man (1): Sovereign cost eighteen rupees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because...

Dr. Patel: Sovereign was fourteen rupees.

Prabhupāda: In our marriage in 1918...

Dr. Patel: It was more because the First World War. Then it slumped down.

Prabhupāda: It dropped.

Dr. Patel: And the lowest was in 1930. Then it rose. Then in 1935 it was thirty rupees and in 1940 it was thirty-eight, and 1950 it was fifty rupees. And 1956 we bought at the rate of fifty-six rupees. I still remember that because we have been buying gold every year.

Indian man (2): 1959 or '60 the price was ninety-six rupees.

Dr. Patel: Then suddenly it rose. Now, because Americans are buying gold, the gold standard has been left out. They have taken, cornered the gold of the whole world. But I have heard that the Russians have got some gold mountains on the surface. They can take out gold very easily from there. Here you have to dig up deep down.

Prabhupāda: No, in South Africa there is gold. In the city there are so many gold mines in South Africa.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is dead. What is this body? It is already dead. Just like motorcar. It is dead lump of matter. So long the driver is, it is moving. Similarly, the body is dead. So without understanding of spiritual identification, simply decorating this body means aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-rañjanam. This is going on, loka-rañjanam, just to captivate some foolish person that they are advanced in civilization. What is that civilization? But we can understand, this civilization and the dog, there is no difference. There is no difference.

Dr. Patel: Now there will be no difference because there is just like dogs, the society, no marriages and all those... We talked yesterday. There are facts. That is going on everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Na te vidu svārtha-gati hi viṣṇu durāśay ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha, bodily concept, this is bahiḥ. And antar is the soul. So they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, simply studying this body externally, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Very nice words, selected words, are used in Bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, this body and the soul are complimentary. If there is no body, soul cannot reside anywhere. And if there is no soul, body will die.

Prabhupāda: No. That is another side of bodily conception. Soul is without... Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. "The soul has nothing to do with this material world."

Room Conversation -- November 25, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...this society. Only the important men, they can live as gṛhastha. Not that "Now I am in love with this girl and get me married and yajña and then sleep." These things should be stopped. That, that what is his name, the rascal's name, that, whom you have driven away?

Devotee (1): Srnghadi(?).

Prabhupāda: Srnghadi?

Devotee (1): Śrīnati.

Prabhupāda: Śrīnati.(?) From his face it appears that he's woman hunter. Did he talk with you?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So in every center they must rise early in the morning. They must follow the regulative principles. They must attend class. Otherwise let them go out. We don't want. And if anyone wants to marry, first of all he must show that he has some earning capacity. Not that "Because there are so many girls, and I marry one to satisfy my senses..." I thought that boy was nice, and I heard all these stories. That is also another defect, that we have got young boys and young girls open for lovemaking. And brahmacārī means strictly prohibited to see the face of woman. But we cannot stop it. That is also another defect. Fire is good and butter is good, but when they come together everything become bad. Is it not? Fire is good, just like heat. And butter is good, healthy. But when they come together the butter melts and the fire extinguished. This is māyā's arrangement. Puṁsa striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. This whole world is going on by the sex attraction, and when they come together both of them become spoiled. Therefore it has to be dealt with very, very carefully, so many rules, regulation. (break) ...used, Nitāi?

Nitāi: Whenever there is necessity.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dr. Patel: Very early. And he never married again, and I was the only son and no other daughter or son. Many people requested him to marry, but he said no, he would not marry, because one son is sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Yes. putradi (?) bhāgya. Putra, when there is putra, what is the use of marriage?

Dr. Patel: I was five years old when my mother died. In that big, pandemic of influenza in 1918, that..., that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, war influenza, after war.

Dr. Patel: After war. The whole world was (indistinct). (break) What you do for the...

Prabhupāda: He did not remember God, he remembered his son. But God is so kind, because he uttered God's name, He took it seriously.

Dr. Patel: That Mr. Shah had gone to the States and came back from there, some three months back, and he praised the Americans, that no man on Sunday is in the street. All of them are in the churches, and you hear on the radio only those hymns. Is it a fact?

Prabhupāda: He is American. (indicates Harikeśa)

Harikeśa: Yes, but nobody listens to the radio.

Dr. Patel: He says that at least government does it. Here government is giving all the cinema. And there the churches are overflowing.

Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.

Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?

Prabhupāda: Hm? That advancement is not very solid. But there is advancement; but that is not very solid.

Śrīdhara: Without sex pleasure a man and a woman would not be attracted to one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Attraction means that sex. There is no other. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedī sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the psychology. There is no other happiness. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhī sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their happiness is based on the center of sex pleasure.

Page Title:Marriage (Conversations 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:30 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=70, Let=0
No. of Quotes:70