Prabhupāda: The first scene is that people passing on with saṅkīrtana movement as we have, as we usually do, very nice procession with mṛdaṅga, karatālas and that bugle, all people, just in the ordinary way. We have to make a nice procession. The second scene is that Kali, the personified Kali, a person should be decorated blackish. A blackish man with royal dress and very ugly features. And his queen, another ugly featured girl or lady. So they are disturbed. They'll talk between themselves that "There is saṅkīrtana movement now and how we shall prosecute our business of this Kali-yuga?" There will be, in that scene, in some corner somebody is drinking. Two or three persons drinking. The scene will be like that. They are sitting in the center. In one corner somebody taking part in drinking, and another part somebody is illicitly talking of lust and love with woman. In another section there is slaughtering of a cow, and another section gambling. In this way that scene should be adjusted. And in the middle, the ugly man, black man, and the ugly woman will talk that "We are now in danger. The saṅkīrtana movement has been started. What to do?" In this way you have to finish that scene.
Lust (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"lust"
|"lustful"
|"lustfully"
|"lustily"
|"lustiness"
|"lusting"
|"lusts"
|"lusty"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Nice if she does not marry, that's nice. Anyone who has got children, he should not marry, I think so. Because marriage means not for sense gratification. Putrāyate kriyate bhāryā, putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. To get nice son, that is the idea of marriage. Not for sense gratification. Those who are after sense gratification, according to Vedic scripture, they are, I mean to say, recommended to go to the prostitute. Therefore in Hindu society, still, there is a prostitute class. They are allowed... They do not allow it within the society. I mean to say, extravagant sex life. Especially spiritual life. Spiritual life means gradually forget sex life. Material life means sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex life because there is no birth, there is no death. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Although the women are very, very beautiful, many thousand times more beautiful than here... Their stature of body, their everything, youthfulness, everything. But still they are so much engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in chanting the glories, that they are not, I mean to say, influenced by the lust.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is a disease. Disease. Lust and greediness. There are three qualities in the world, material world. One is called sattva-guṇa, one is called rajo-guṇa, another is called tamo-guṇa. Goodness. Rajo-guṇa is passion, and tamo-guṇa is darkness. So at the present moment these two guṇas, qualities, darkness and passion are prevalent. Goodness gone. Goodness gone. And the darkness and passion, the symptoms are greediness and lust. People are being educated to become greedy and lusty. That's all. Nobody is being educated to become good. So what is the use of these rascal universities? If they are producing greedy and lusty people, then what is the use of education? Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means everyone should be gentleman. That is education. And if you produce lusty and greedy people there is no... This is animal education. The animals are lusty and greedy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.
Śyāmasundara: Then you become automatically mad after Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you practice, the more you become mad.
Devotee (2): As in that verse, "Thus by the higher self conquer the lower... Thus with the higher self conquer the lower self and curb the insatiable enemy known as lust."
Prabhupāda: Higher self? I don't follow.
Devotee (2): That verse in the Gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, this is Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. You will find in Nectar of Devotion. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). You have read this Nectar of Devotion?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: You will find there. Where is Nectar of Devotion? Bring it.
Prabhupāda: Unnecessary pride is very bad. "Oh, I have become very advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That we should never think.
Devotee (1): "We are simply Your maidservants and slaves. Please, therefore, accept us by showing us Your lotuslike beautiful face. Dear Kṛṣṇa, actually we have become very lusty, having been touched by Your lotus feet. Your lotus feet certainly kill all kinds of sinful activities of devotees who have taken shelter there. You are so kind that even the ordinary animals take shelter under Your lotus feet. Your lotus feet are also the residence of the goddess of fortune, yet You dance on the head of the Kāliya serpent with them. Now we are requesting You to kindly place Your lotus feet on our breasts and pacify our lusty desires to touch You. O Lord, Your attractive eyes, like the lotus, are so nice and pleasing. Your sweet words are so fascinating that they please even the greatest scholars, who also become attracted to You. We are also attracted by Your speaking and by the beauty of Your face and eyes. Please, therefore, satisfy us by Your nectarean kisses. Dear Lord, words spoken by You or words describing Your activities are full of nectar, and simply by speaking or hearing Your words one can be saved from the blazing fire of material existence. Great demigods like Lord Brahma and Lord Siva are always engaged in chanting the glories of Your words. (devotees continue reading for several pages) Great yogis like Lord Siva, Lord Brahma or even Lord Śeṣa and others always try to fix their attention upon Kṛṣṇa in their heart, but here the gopīs actually saw Kṛṣṇa seated before them on their cloths."
Prabhupāda: This is yoga. This is yoga system, to see Kṛṣṇa within your heart. That is real.
Prabhupāda: Fifty pounds. But if you keep the cows, you get thirty pounds daily. This is intelligence. Instead of getting once fifty pounds and finished, why don't you get it daily thirty pounds?
Devotee (1): Because they're lusty.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have to set the example, Prabhupāda, through your mercy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is foolishness. Just like one has got some money, he utilizes his money and gets daily some income. And if he wants to spend all at once, that is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.
Prabhupāda: Guṇa, develop. They are... They are developing these brahminical qualifications, coming to sattva-guṇa. From rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, they are coming to sattva-guṇa. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ, these qualities are manifested by lust and greediness. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. When one's heart will not be disturbed by these two qualities, tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, then he will be situated in sattva-guṇa. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he becomes satisfied. At that time he becomes jolly. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, bhagavat-tattva-vijñānaṁ mukta-saṅgasya jāyate (SB 1.2.20). When he becomes jolly, being situated in sattva-guṇa, at that time he can understand what is bhagavat-tattva, what is the Absolute Truth, not in the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is not possible.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?
Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...
Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Pradyumna:
- asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
- jagad āhur anīśvaram
- aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ
- kim anyat kāma-haitukam
- (BG 16.8)
"They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust."
Prabhupāda: This is the opinion of the demoniac people, that the, there is no God, there is no controller, it has come into existence by chemical reaction, just like a child is born by sex intercourse, reaction of some chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. In this way, as the heart becomes cleansed, he revives his quality of goodness. And when he's situated in the quality of goodness, the other two qualities, passion and ignorance, cannot infect him. By this process. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. The example is kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. When one is too much affected with the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, passion and ignorance... What is this kāma? Lusty and greediness. These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-guṇa. So then therefore we see that all people are lusty and greedy. So as soon as he becomes cleansed, come to the standard of goodness, these two qualities cannot affect him anymore.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata begins, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), what is the original source of creation. Not abruptly Kṛṣṇa. Then after developing all such knowledge one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. But in the spiritual world there are activities like that. The material world is only perverted reflection of these activities of the spiritual world. Perverted reflections. It is reflection, but perverted. Therefore, it is difficult. Everything is there. Basic principle that Kṛṣṇa loved the gopīs... Gopīs were young girls, Kṛṣṇa was young boy, But the same love between young boy and girl here is lust. Therefore, it is perverted. The reflection is there, but it is not love, it is lust.
Prabhupāda: In the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa, there is no lust. That is the difference.
David Lawrence: Reverence isn't it, reverence for Him.
Prabhupāda: Here, the so-called love is lust only. It is going on in the name of love. Actually it is not love. And because it is not love, therefore such kind of love does not continue very long. It breaks.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But we don't find in the history of spiritual world the love between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa broke at any time. That is the difference.
Prabhupāda: The same thing is there, but they are dragging this lusty affairs to Kṛṣṇa. Generally, the rascals, they paint Kṛṣṇa's picture with gopīs so that their lusty activities may be supported—Kṛṣṇa also had like that. This is misunderstanding. They do not take into calculation: Here, so-called love is lust and it breaks. But in the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa there is no breaking but increasing of love. So how they can compare Kṛṣṇa's love with gopīs with these lusty affairs?
David Lawrence: I must admit, yes, I've read far enough on to see that and I think this is...
Prabhupāda: When we make analogy, the points of similarity must be there. But these rascals are so dull-headed that they have not even logical arguments. Where are the points of similarity? That we are comparing these lusty affairs of this material world with the affairs of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs? Where is the similarity?
David Lawrence: There's never mention of lust or of any animal desire at all is there?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa used to dance with so many gopīs, everything is described there, that they embraced, they kissed, but there is no such thing abortion or contraceptive. (laughter) So these things have to be studied. How we can compare gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa with these lusty affairs of this material world?
David Lawrence: Can't be done. Another question that raised itself, you'll see in the paper in fact, was the little mention in one of the books that I was reading, not from Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, just to get a bit of background, on Lord Caitanya, and it seems to have been...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is already there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, described.
Prabhupāda: ...for others it is said. For Kṛṣṇa, it is mercy. The gopīs came with lust. They became purified with Kṛṣṇa's association. Gopīs actually, superficially, externally, they are, means, nitya-siddha, ever-liberated expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, internal energy. But apparently, they left their father, husband and came to Kṛṣṇa. So that is, from Vedic principle, it is wrong. One young girl cannot go to other young man, giving up the protection of father, brother, and... So they did it. So they, according to Vedic principle, it is sinful. But because it was related with Kṛṣṇa, they became purified. That means any way, if one comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. Even though he's sinful. That is Kṛṣṇa's... That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sun is never infected. Rather, the infected area becomes sterilized by the sunshine. This is the process. That is explained. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful, he has no fault.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Transformed to what?
Guest: Well, for instance lust is supposed to be transformed into compassion, and the other uh, the other passion desires are transformed to something else.
Prabhupāda: Then it is not nirvāṇa. It is real condition. Then that is our principle. That is not nirvāṇa. Just like...
Guest: Well, this is what I mean by nirvāṇa.
Prabhupāda: You mean, but you the word nirvāṇa. Suppose I take out your eyes. This is one thing. And I...
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?
Devotee: Gopāla wants to see you. (break)
Prabhupāda: Suppose I take out your eyes. That is nirvāṇa. But if there is some disease, I cure it, that is (indistinct). Suppose cataract, cataract operation.
Prabhupāda: ...understand the inconceivable power of God. (break) First of all he has to come to the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati.
- tato rājas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
- kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
- ceta etair anāvidhaṁ
- sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati
- (SB 1.2.19)
When one becomes free from the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, the symptom is... Rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa means lust and greediness. So when this rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is absent, then the sattva-guṇa becomes prominent. Every guṇa is there. Tato rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ kama-lobhadayas ca ye, ceta etaiḥ... The consciousness does not become infected by the resultant action of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Then the only sattva-guṇa remains. So when one is situated in sattva-guṇa, sthita-sattve prasidati, then he becomes jubilant, prasidati. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). So one has to overcome the jurisdiction of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. At the present moment the whole world is covered mostly by tamo-guṇa and little by rajo-guṇa.
Dr. Patel: They become lusty.
Bhāgavata: Bhāgavata-saptāhas. Bhāgavata-saptāhas.
Prabhupāda: Ah, bhāgavata-saptāha. It is all nonsense. Simply they are hearing from the material platform some karma-kāṇḍīya vicāra, that "If you hear..."
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa Śaṅkara Śāstri is speaking very...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa Śaṅkara Śāstri from Nariya(?) (indistinct) place.
Prabhupāda: He's a learned scholar, I know.
Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease, to become lusty. So if one actually hears from the authority rāsa-līlā, then he is no more lusty. That is the test. That is the test.
Dr. Patel: He becomes (indistinct) This kāma is always first everywhere. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Kāma is the basic principle of material life. That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad: "Both men and women, they are attracted in this material world for this sex life." Mithunī-bhāvam etad. Tayor mithaḥ. They are... Now, just see in this beach. They are coming all dressed, and the man is attracting woman; woman is attracting man. This is business, going on here.
Prabhupāda: ...first of all, being observed by father of Kṛṣṇa. It is very important. (break) ...necessity of tapasya, if one worships Kṛṣṇa? Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And after austerities, if he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the value of his tapasya? (break) ...imitating here, that is lust.
Dr. Patel: Anything with a view on the sex is lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is lust. Here everything is lust. Center is lust. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The central point is sex.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just like a lawyer. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Mother is also very nice. Unless father and mother is nice... I told your mother also. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...she become beautiful, now there is lusty desire.
Girirāja: (reading) "She frankly proposed to Kṛṣṇa, 'My dear hero, I cannot leave you...' "
Prabhupāda: She was a prostitute. She was a prostitute but engaged in Kaṁsa's service. In India the prostitutes are engaged as maidservants in respectable houses still. During daytime they serve in some house, and at night they become prostitute. There are many prostitutes. One prostitute, when we were boys, she was coming to serve my mother as a lady barber. There is lady barber, for serving the ladies. And at night she was standing as prostitute. (break) ...a good relation with the neighborhood. There was no enviousness. "She is doing her own business. That's all."
Cāru:
- kāmam āśritya duṣpūraṁ
- dambha-māna-madānvitāḥ
- mohād gṛhītvāsad-grāhān
- pravartante 'śuci-vratāḥ
- (BG 16.10)
"The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent."
Prabhupāda: The big two wars of the world happened only on account of this industry. Do you know that? The cause is the big, big industry. Germany industrial, they produce goods. They must have market. But when they go to sell, there is no market. Britishers will not allow to sell them. The Britisher will take, purchase from them, and stamp it "Made in England" and sell it. And this is the cause of two big war. Therefore German declare twice war. Disaster. Therefore it is said, jagata ahitāya.
- vikrīḍitaṁ idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ vraja-vadhūbhir
- śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
- bhaktiṁ parāṁ (bhagavati) pratilabhya kāmaṁ
- hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ
That is the result. If one actually hears from the right source (indistinct), then this lusty desire of sex life will be finished. No more. Hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. Sober. But these people, they are hearing life after life by the sex concentration, making offense that Kṛṣṇa is also doing the same thing. They publish book. One rascal, Bhaṭṭācārya(?), has published. In Paris we saw.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Nitāi: "They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust."
Prabhupāda: They think, the asura, that is the distinction between asura and sura. The asura will say, "There is no control." Anīśvaram. Īśvaram means controller, anīśvaram means without any controller. Then how it has come into existence, how it is working so nicely? So they answer it: kāma-haitukam. Kāma-haitukam means just like a man and woman mix together, then there is sex desire and there is a production of child. There is no question of controlling. It is timely interaction of different elements. This is called kāma-haitukam. So what is that other? Asatyam...
Nitāi: Asatyam apratiṣṭham.
Prabhupāda: And others, other atheist in the dress of very good sannyāsī, they say jagad mithyā, mithyā. But they say also, brahma satya, they accept Brahmān. They are not so atheist, at least they accept.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition. So we have to cut down this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, come to the sattva-guṇa. Then he'll not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he'll be happy. Sthita-sattve prasīdati. When he comes to the sattva-guṇa, now he has to make further progress, sattva-guṇa. And the progress means, being situated in sattva-guṇa if he advances in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Devotee (2): Is it still that there's greed and lust there, but he becomes transcendental to it? Or are the greed and lust...?
Prabhupāda: Degradation can take place at any moment. We are in the material world. It is the degraded place. So infection can take place at any moment.
Devotee (2): It's always trying to creep in.
Prabhupāda: But if you remain steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it will not touch; you'll not be infected. If you take proper vaccine, so even though you are in the diseased condition, you will not be infected. Otherwise there is chance of being infected of anyone.
Prabhupāda: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The śāstra has... It is lusty desire, that's all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). It is all discussed in the śāstra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say "legalized prostitution." They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life. So the gṛhastha life is a concession-same lusty desire under rules and regulation. That's all. That is our higher... (?) Without married life he will commit rapes in so many ways, so better let him be satisfied with one, both the man and woman, and make progress in spiritual life. That is concession. Everyone in this material world has come with these lusty desires and greediness. Even demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... The Lord Brahmā became lusty after his daughter. And Lord Śiva became so mad after Mohinī-murti. So what to speak of us insignificant creatures. So lusty desire is there. That is material world. Unless one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, this lusty desire cannot be checked. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we should take that it was his līlā to show that "Even I am subjected. How much you should take risk here." We should take like that because he's our guru. We should not take him that he was subjected to lusty desires, but he made a show that "Even I am also subjected." And he gave up this, changed the body for that. Therefore we should not observe if there is a show of fault of the guru. We should take a different way. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like the sun is soaking water from urine, but we should not imitate that, that "We also, let us take urine." Then you'll die. He can do so. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. The sun can do that. Still he is not affected. Everyone knows the sun soaks water from the urine. But should you imitate that: "Oh, let me take urine"? No. It is not for you. That is advised. Īśvaranam, those who are īśvaras, the controllers, there is no fault. You should not imitate them; simply you should imitate their instruction. Not that their activities which we may not understand, why he is doing that.
Devotee (1): (break) ...till they give up their lusty desires.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required because unless you give up your lusty desires, you will have to remain in this material world, and to remain in the material means suffering. If you actually do not want suffering, then you have to practice all these things so that you can go to the spiritual world. That is the aim of life. And for going to the spiritual world, you have to be completely, cent percent free from all material desires. And so long you will have material desires, you have to accept one material body. Nature is so kind, or the law of nature is so perfect. As long as you will have a little pinch of material desire, then you will have to accept. That's all. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad... And that material life means you may become a grass or you may become a demigod like Brahmā. That will depend on your desire. But you will have to accept.
Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that sometimes the living entities are compelled to act because of lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): Even unwillingly.
Prabhupāda: That is... Unwillingly, when it is done, that is excused. And willingly, when it is done, it is cheating. That in your America there was a Moral Rearmament Movement. So it flourished for some days. Their process was admit, admission of sinful activities, that Christian method. "So I will admit. That's all. Again I do. 'Yes, I have done this.' Then my all reaction is gone. Then again I do it." That is described in the Bhāgavata, kuñjara-śaucavat, the elephant, elephant's cleanliness. Elephants cleanse very nicely in the water, and as soon as come on the land, they will take dust and throw, immediately. So what is the use of cleansing? Kuñjara-śaucavat. You cleanse; again you become unclean.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, one boy in Sydney, he has been a devotee for a few years, three or four years, but now he has fallen away because of lusty association, I suppose, or bad association. So is this unwilling or willing, because he has become attracted to women again?
Prabhupāda: That is one of the defects, our society, that women are there, and one falls victim of these women. And it is not possible to keep the society strictly for men. That is also not possible. But actually no woman should live in the temple. That is the...
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Christians have one place for the women and another place for the men. But we find the women can't organize themselves very well, so it is difficult to organize something like that also.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, if we do not give up lusty desires, either we keep separately or together they fall down in the... All these nuns, they are all complicated, although they live separately. There was a convent school in Calcutta, and it was detected that the head minister was supplying women outside for business. Now one brahmacārīṇi āśrama is started. This means that the authority of this āśrama, they supply young women to rich, richer class, and they pay money. Business is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because nowadays almost every girl is unmarried. So they have devised this āśrama that "Come here." And women can be sold at any cost. People are lusty. So one woman supplied, he pays hundred rupees, two hundred rupees. Business is going on.
Amogha: They come for pilgrimage?
Prabhupāda: No, no. They will be sent to your house. Pay for it. Hotel. In the Kali-yuga the sex impulse is so strong, but it is utilized in so many ways. The yogis, swamis, school, college, philosophy—at the end sex, that's all. That example, dog's tail. Whatever you do, greasing, the tail will be like this. (break) I think it is sooner. It takes time less than for going there.
Paramahaṁsa:
- dhyāyato viṣayān puṁsaḥ
- saṅgas teṣūpajāyate
- saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ
- kāmāt krodho 'bhijāyate
Translation: "While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises."
Prabhupāda: If one becomes lusty and if it is not fulfilled, he becomes angry. This is all psychological.
Guest (2): Yeah, well, when a person is attached to that group in the temple, isn't this, become a lust too? You see, being influenced by the group and also attached to the people...
Prabhupāda: We are teaching to be influenced by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we have written fifty books like that, four hundred pages. You can show some of our books.
Prabhupāda: The force means there is Supreme, He is forcing. Without His sanction, you will be forced to commit mistake.
Hari-śauri: That force is kāma, lust?
Prabhupāda: No, force is there—God's desire or supreme will. You are trying to do something, you are trying your best. You are employing your full energy and all the means. Still, it is not done. Therefore the force is coming from God. Otherwise how you will explain? What is the explanation, that you endeavor, you did all that is possible by you, still, the result did not come? So how you will explain?
Hari-śauri: You must accept God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles) Kāmāt bhayāt krodhāt. Either for lust desires or out of fear, out of anger, some way or other, if one is attached to Kṛṣṇa, his life will be nice. So enemy means krodhāt, being angry upon us. "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people does like that." So he is angry. But that will also be effective. Krodhāt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is so merciful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is this? Everyone is seeing the beautiful, the most perfect creation of God, is a woman.
Indian guest: That's lust or maybe passion...
Prabhupāda: That's all. So what is the difference between man and dog? The dog is also seeing another she-dog—the most beautiful creation of God. The ass is also seeing the she-ass-most beautiful creation.
Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter.
Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Mize? So what does he say?
Bahulāśva: He said that he could give up the greed, but the lust was a very hard one for him to give up.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Dharmadhyaksa: He wanted to become more unselfish, but he didn't know how he could give up lust.
Prabhupāda: No, that can be done. If you increase your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love for Kṛṣṇa, then you will forget this lust.
Dharmadyaksa: That's what we told him, that he must chant.
Prabhupāda: That is the only. That is the only. There is no other second way. (break) ...conquer over lust, one has to take shelter of Madana-mohana. Madana means lust, Cupid, and Kṛṣṇa is Madana-mohana. He can enchant the Cupid also. (break) ...Ṭhākura, young man. At dead of night the prostitute came. How he restrained? That is... One who has realized Madana-mohana, for him these things are nothing, no enchantment.
Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, modern philosophy is teaching that the forces of greed and lust and these things are greater than man, that actually... This concept that we are eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, they cannot accept that or understand that. They're thinking that the powers of evil are much greater, and we're just controlled by these things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. When a man's lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Why one is forced to do that? The cause is lusty desires, anger, greediness. So we are thinking we are master of this material world, but actually you are servant of these desires, kāma, krodha, lobha, mohaḥ. And that is māyā. He is acting as servant, but he's thinking, "I am master." That is māyā, which is not the fact. Just like yesterday we were discussing that the women, they are acting as instrument of men, and they are thinking, "We have equal rights." A man is utilizing her for his own purpose, and she is thinking "I am equal."
Prabhupāda: No, that is lust. That is not love. And as soon as my lusty desire is not fulfilled, then you are my enemy. (break) If we take shelter of any materialistic person, that is like to take the..., capture the tail of a dog and try to swim over the Pacific Ocean. It is like that. (break)
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: ...ing that we should not give people anything other than Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: And what you have to give? First of all you consider what you have to give. What you have got to give?
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: I was thinking that sometimes the devotees engage in business, selling so many things to help the temples, and you were saying that we should not do that?
Prabhupāda: If you are business-minded, you can do that. Do business and give the result to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So, your instructions in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam can stop their lust? It can stop... By hearing from Vedic authorities, their lust can be dissolved? Or do they have to just simply be frustrated in their attempts to enjoy sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: They are being frustrated. Who is successful in the material world? Have you got any instance that he is successful? (pause) Then?
Vāsughoṣa: In every field someone is miserable. Just in America there was one lady, very famous etiquette expert, Amy Vanderbilt. So she jumped out of her window. She was sixty-nine years old.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I saw in Detroit, I think. The bridge is covered?
Brahmānanda: San Francisco. The Golden Gate Bridge they have put...
Prabhupāda: Not Golden Gate. That San Diego, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You get material profit. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, (sic:) alpavat tu phalaṁ teṣām: "The result of material profit is for a short duration of time," tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, "and these things are desired by less intelligent class of men." His real need is how to gain his spiritual life. That is his real need. But he does not want that. He wants some material profit for the time being. This is less intelligent. Suppose if somebody gives you some money and he says, "Tomorrow I shall take it away," will you... (laughs) So tad bhavaty alpa-medhasā. (break) ...kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "They worship demigods, bewildered by lusty desires." And so long we have got lusty desires, we have to change our body, and that we do not know, what kind of body we are going to get next birth. Therefore, without knowing this, if we become mad after material profit, then less intelligent.
Prabhupāda: That is prema. "When one wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, that is prema."
Dr. Patel: That is called lust and love.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference between lust and love. Just like gopīs. It looks like kāma but it is prema.
Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that gopīs really, they are kāma-toṣa, and when they touched the sacred feet of Kṛṣṇa their whole thing was turned into the sacred prema.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Apratiṣṭham. There is no cause of this creation. Kāma-haitukam: it has taken place just like a man becomes lusty by seeing a woman and he begets a child. This is the cause, this rascal desire. That's all.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Tirupati is establishing Gaṇeśa temple. That is against Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavān says that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānā yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). The rascals who are very much lusty, lost their intelligence, they worship other demigods.
Acyutānanda: The Rāmānuja sannyāsīs have had all their authority taken away from them by these...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Acyutānanda: All their authority in the temples has been taken away by the government committee.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown.
Acyutānanda: In Kṛṣṇa book it says that there were some color fighting in Dvārakā. They were throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is... Will that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuṇṭha and think of personal lust with Kṛṣṇa's associates?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Whatever He likes, He'll do. That is God. God is not meant for satisfying you.
Acyutānanda: That man was dragged down by the people in the audience anyway.
Guru-kṛpā: They took him out of...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Acyutānanda: He was dragged down by the people in the audience. He was an agitator. (break)
Prabhupāda: This preaching work is a great fight, struggle.
Trivikrama: Saving means saving from lust and all these things. There's so much... They're servants of their senses.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone requires leader, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is a fact.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they are changing leaders one after another because they think that the present leader will satisfy their present desires more.
Prabhupāda: The leader, perfect leader, is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānāṁ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That nitya and cetana, all living entities, we are eternal, and we are conscious. And He is the supreme conscious. Therefore God means Supreme Being. You take His leadership. Then He'll properly guide you. That is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not okay. It is not at all okay. Then you go and sit down. Don't.... That is very risky. Then let us go to the road. (break) Maybe.
Jayādvaita: (break) ...that just as a capitalist sees money everywhere and a lusty person sees sex life everywhere, devotee sees Kṛṣṇa everywhere, even in a pillar.
Nalinī-kānta: I've been reading a lot in the different books about envy. You say that people kill cows only out of envy. I was wondering if you could give a definition of what envy is. I don't understand why they would kill animals out of envy.
Prabhupāda: Envy means the cow has got right to live. He does not allow the cow to live. That is envy. You cannot understand this? Suppose you are walking. You have got right to walk, I have got, and if I kill you, you cannot walk. That is envious. Everyone has got right to live. Just like the camel. God has given their food. They are accustomed to eat these thorny twigs. So Kṛṣṇa has given that. Let them eat and live. Why should you interfere with his living condition? (break) Do not interfere with others' right.
Devotee (4): Perhaps it's a speculation—I'm not certain. But in the Bhagavad-gītā it describes that lust is also sometimes like a fire. Practically one experiences that the heat in the body, the lusty desires increases heat within the body. So is there any correlation between fire within the body and the mode of passion?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Passion is there. Just like fire, if you fan it, it blazes more. Similarly, with passion, the fire is more powerful.
Devotee (4): Then the passion is like the fuel.
Prabhupāda: Lust is sometimes described as fire, kāmāgni. Heart burns, the lusty desire burns.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no need of.... Different stages of body.... Just like you are going up one step, another step, another step. There is no need of going, "What is this?" But you are going up, step by step.
Mahendra: In the Bhagavad-gītā, you explain that one takes a specific birth due to a specific degree of lust.
Prabhupāda: Yes, mental situation.
Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you once said that if someone is not attracted to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that he is being punished by Yamarāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Āpana karama bhuñjāye śamana kahaye locana dāsa.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.
- tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
- kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
- ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
- sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
- (SB 1.2.19)
If you want peace and happiness, then you have to transcend the platform of rajas-tamaḥ and come to the platform of goodness. Then you have to transcend the goodness platform and come to the vasudeva platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. This is progress. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobha. Rajas tamas means kāma and lobha, endless greediness and endless lusty desires.
Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?
Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.
Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?
Devotee: He's a sick doctor.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.
Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.
Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.
Devotee: Then how does he explain how so many devotees can live together peacefully and happily if there's no reciprocation of love? Materialists can't even live together with their wife for very long.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're simply interested in human flesh. They're not concerned about all the animal slaughter that's going on. They don't take objection to the animal slaughter, the animal flesh. But when it comes to the human flesh, because they think they can enjoy, then they take some concern.
Prabhupāda: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivore also. (break) ...Mahāprabhu said, asat eka strī-saṅgī, strī-saṅgī, those who are attached to woman, he's asat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.
Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna:
- cintām aparimeyāṁ ca
- pralayāntām upāśritāḥ
- kāmopabhoga-paramā
- etāvad iti niścitāḥ
- āśā-pāśa-śatair baddhāḥ
- kāma-krodha-parāyaṇāḥ
- īhante kāma-bhogārtham
- anyāyenārtha-sañcayān
"They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification."
Prabhupāda: Illegal.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on."
- ahaṅkāraṁ balaṁ darpaṁ
- kāmaṁ krodhaṁ ca saṁśritāḥ
- mām ātma-para-deheṣu
- pradviṣanto 'bhyasūyakāḥ
Translation: "Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because without father the daughter cannot be properly married. Daughter or son, everyone, if the father, mother, by their supervision, the boys and girls get married, that is very good. They see how they will be happy. And without father, mother, simply by lusty desires, that selection may be wrong and that becomes actually happened. Therefore there is divorce.
Prabhupāda: Women also. What is the use of this material husband? Make Kṛṣṇa husband. Kṛṣṇa's prepared to become everything—love Him as husband, love Him as son, love Him, friend. Kṛṣṇa is prepared.
Rūpānuga: I have see in our society that if the preaching is strong amongst the leaders and there's serious chanting, leaders see that everyone is chanting and happily engaged, that there is no disturbance. If the preaching is weak, there is sexual disturbance.
Prabhupāda: Then the material desire becomes prominent.
Rūpānuga: Then everyone becomes lusty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They also have a performance to show you of Satish Chandra Ghosh's play. Satish Chandra Ghosh, remember that play that we received in Māyāpur, that Nitāi had translated? "Lust and Envy," you gave it to Madhudviṣa, myself and Sudāmā, and you were saying "Just think how to perform this."
Prabhupāda: Satish Chandra?
Sudāmā: Ghosh. He's a playwriter. In Māyāpur we received two scenes from the entire translated in Vṛndāvana—in January when we were there together.
Prabhupāda: Satish Chandra or Girish Chandra?
Devotees: Girish Chandra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how'll you show the incomplete?
Sudāmā: In Māyāpur you were interested to see the first..., or see the scene of the enemies-anger, lust, greed, envy—so we have worked on it.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Kali, Kali-yuga.
Sudāmā: Yes, Kali. So as the scenes come we are planning to work on them in that succession.
Prabhupāda: You have already worked?
Sudāmā: Yes, on the first two scenes.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Bring some fruit. What are the three enemies? Kama, krodha...
Pradyumna: Lobha.
Gurudāsa: Lust, anger, greed.
Prabhupāda: Three enemies-lusty desire, anger and greediness.
George Harrison: Yes. But there's a lot of nice threes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Brahma, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Three worlds, śaṅkha, martya, padma. Trinity. These are nice things.
Harikeśa: They are always maddened by lusty desires.
Prabhupāda: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Very, very risky civilization. Keeping the whole human society in darkness. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). By material adjustment they are thinking that "Everything we will enjoy."(?) There are two different things, matter and spirit. The spirit requires spiritual food.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."
Harikeśa:
- asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
- jagad āhur anīśvaram
- aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ
- kim anyat kāma-haitukam
- (BG 16.8)
"They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust."
Prabhupāda: This is their accident. Accidentally there is sex desire and something is produced. Still, they cannot say causeless. Because here it is said kāma-haitukam, the lusty desire was there. So therefore the lusty desire is the cause. You cannot say causeless. That is not possible. Aparaspara-sambhūtam, two, man and woman meets, aparaspara-sambhūtam. Para, apara. But kāma-haitukam. So you cannot say causeless. Then you have to search out wherefrom this lusty desire came. That is kāraṇa. Find out one cause after another, another, another. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). If you go on searching out, you have to find out this cause. Because you are saying kāma-haitukam, the lusty desire is the cause, nothing else. But if you are a philosopher, then you must find out wherefrom the lusty desire comes.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Kṛṣṇa says... The kāma also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Whatever you have got, that is from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). You cannot say the kāma is independent. That's not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. (break) Ahaṁ sarvasya, sarvasya, you'll have take kāma also, everything, everything is coming. As Kṛṣṇa says everything, kāma is also coming from Him. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). It cannot be independent. The kāma-haitukam, the man and woman, lusty desire, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam.
Prabhupāda: If they are trying to prepare that chemical and asking us, "Wait millions of years." But who has prepared now?
Harikeśa: Lust.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is already discussed. Don't talk foolishly.
Harikeśa: No, but the original cause...
Prabhupāda: Lusty desire, that is their theory, that's all. But the lusty desire is not the cause. The cause is the semina.
Harikeśa: But the lusty desire is the cause of the semina.
Prabhupāda: That is one of the cause, there are many causes. Remote causes, immediate causes, there are many causes.
Harikeśa: But that's the original cause.
Prabhupāda: What is that original cause?
Harikeśa: That lust.
Prabhupāda: Original for you because you are rascal. But there is another cause before that.
Harikeśa: But we see that lust is the whole basis of this world, there's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupāda: That you see because you are rascal. That is our charges against you. You see because you are rascal. You do not know, you have no sufficient knowledge. But our charge is that the lust is the..., Yes, all right, the lust is the cause and the discharge is there, so why you are waiting the discharge of a human being? Why not prepare that chemical? Where is that advancement? Why you take from a man the discharge and put into the woman, either man or animal? You prepare.
Harikeśa: No, we can find, the essence is lust, because as soon as there is lust, automatically there's all these other things. So you don't have to make all these other things because automatically lust creates everything. There is no need...
Jñānagamya: But there's also lust, the scientists are lusty to create and experiment.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot create such lust.
Harikeśa: Oh, yes, I create it all the time.
Prabhupāda: Then why there is no life?
Jñānagamya: If I am a lusty scientist then I can be lusty with a woman or I can be lusty with the test tubes and the chemicals. The lust is there, so why is there no artificial semina? The same lust is there. Desire for profit, adoration, distinction is there. So they are a failure.
Harikeśa: Our proposition is nothing like this, our proposition is that lust is the creation of everything.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I charge.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we put you in a room with a lot of lust and you create a baby.
Harikeśa: No, that will happen automatically, you just, the ingredients come together automatically.
Prabhupāda: Obstinate rascals. Not only rascal, but obstinate rascal. Their only remedy is shoe. That's all. Obstinacy. There is a story about obstinacy. Two friends were talking. One friend said, "This is cut by a scissor." So another friend says, "No, it is cut by the knife." So then there was fight. So the friend who was talking of the knife, he was strong enough. So he captured him: "You accept it is scissor, otherwise I'll throw you in the water." So other, "No, it is scissor," so he threw him in the water. So when he was dying, he was doing like this. (Prabhupāda makes a hand motion like scissor) (laughter) So he is obstinate rascal. It is as good as that garden here. Rather, here there is no disturbance of outsiders, and there there are so many disturbances. It is better. Our theory is... Not theory, fact-daiva-netreṇa. These things are arranged by superior management.
Jñānagamya: Actually, Prabhupāda, that lust is a perverted expression of love. Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love, and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.
Harikeśa: Then you agree with me?
Jñānagamya: Yes, you are right, but you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Obstinate. It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is... They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say "Why you are connected with illicit sex?" "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say it is love.
Prabhupāda: Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a swami, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That's all. I'm feeling nice here. There is open air and grass.
Nava-yauvana: These rascals don't understand that lust also has its laws and they are under these strict laws of lust. They are thinking they are independent.
Prabhupāda: No, lust... Suppose lust is... Then lust between man and woman. Then this lust will cause.
Harikeśa: That's a law in physics also, "opposites attract."
Prabhupāda: Yes, and who made the opposites?
Harikeśa: No, that's just the natural arrangement of things.
Prabhupāda: What is natural?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Who arranged?
Harikeśa: That's the complete. No, you see that's complete. Two opposite things, they're like two halves of a circle.
Prabhupāda: No, why, who has made this?
Harikeśa: But it's just eternally there. It's just, that's just the complete arrangement, it's everything.
Prabhupāda: But eternally there, but why the body of woman is attracted to man and the man's body is attracted? Who has made it? Between man and man there is no such attraction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long it is taken very much care, and then, when it is fatty, cut throat. In this material world the love is like that, for one's own interest, not for the lover's interest.
Hari-śauri: Not love, lust.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes, it is lust.
Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are many of these great trees but the government takes it over. They take dead grass and make liquor out of that. No one is allowed to cut them.
Mahāṁśa: We can get permission.
Prabhupāda: No, we can use for our own purpose.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He had His personal associate. His name was Choṭa Haridāsa. He looked upon one woman with lusty desires.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Oh, I see. He looked upon a woman with a lusty desire, and he allowed it...
Prabhupāda: He immediately rejected him from His association.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Really?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And He was so strict... This man, being hopeless that he'll not be able to associate with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he committed suicide.
Prabhupāda: The child has father's..., the life from father's property, and the mother is only giving you shelter. She is not the proprietor. Even in other's, womb of other's wife, a child is born... I give birth to a child in other's wife, that is my child. Mother is considered the field, kṣetra. But when I till the kṣetra, field, the production is mine. This idea. The land may be yours, but if I plow on it and produce food grains, that is mine. That is not yours. This is the... Even in other's wife, if somebody begets child, the child belongs to the father. There are many instances. (break) Mat-prāṇa-nāthas: "Still, you are My Lord." That is love. "My love is conditional. If you do to my liking, then I love you"—that is not love. That is not love; that is business. That business is going on under the name of love. A man and woman—"If you have got pocket filled up with money, I love you. If you have got beauty, then I love you." That is not love. That is lust! They do not know what is love.
Hari-śauri: "They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification."
Prabhupāda: Is there any purport?
Hari-śauri: "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality..."
Prabhupāda: I am talking of that man. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But God cannot make mistake. Then He becomes imper... He cannot be good. And not all fathers... According to Vedic civilization, the father creates the son purposefully with some ceremony, garbhādāna ceremony. It is not secret job. Putrethi kriyate bharyā: "One is married to create a good son." That is the purpose. And Bhagavad-gītā says, dharmāviruddha. "Aviruddha, which is not against religion, that kind of lust I am." So how it can be accident? If there is garbhādāna ceremony and son is essential, then how it can be accident?
Gargamuni: Even in the big, rich families, when they want son they perform some pūjā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating.
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Prabhupāda: But God cannot make mistake. Then He becomes imper... He cannot be good. And not all fathers... According to Vedic civilization, the father creates the son purposefully with some ceremony, garbhādāna ceremony. It is not secret job. Putrethi kriyate bharyā: "One is married to create a good son." That is the purpose. And Bhagavad-gītā says, dharmāviruddha. "Aviruddha, which is not against religion, that kind of lust I am." So how it can be accident? If there is garbhādāna ceremony and son is essential, then how it can be accident?
Gargamuni: Even in the big, rich families, when they want son they perform some pūjā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating.
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Prabhupāda: But what do you know about Rāma and Kṛṣṇa? You do not know anything. You are not a devotee. You have to learn the science. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati (BG 7.3). You are ordinary man. You cannot understand. Then one can criticize his father and mother also, that "My fa..." They do. Some rascal do that. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "My father has done harm to me. By lusty desire he gave me birth, and I am suffering." They say like that. So you can in that way, you criticize your father and mother. But that is not law. Law is father and mother should be respected. But you rascal, you can criticize your father. You are such a rascal.
Prabhupāda: So poor fund of knowledge. Accident? Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "A man and woman becomes lusty, they have sex, and it, the body, the form, comes out. So you can cut it and then eat it." Very horrible condition of the human civilization. It is the only institution throughout the whole world who are trying to deliver people from this ignorance. We are the only. All bogus. They do not know anything, what is religion, what is happiness, what is spiritual life. Nobody knows. No... But that was covered. Now we are opening religion. The thing was there. It is not our invention, neither we can invent. But it is still unknown, and therefore they are unhappy. Their primary problem, where to live, how to eat, how to cover—that we shall take charge. Then what is the problem? You have got free boarding, free lodging, free cloth, and so much enlightenment.
When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Kāma, lusty desires, and greediness. Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama... When one is situated in devotional service, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. These are rajas-tamo... These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham (SB 1.2.19). The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, "Give us some student."
Hari-śauri:
- asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
- jagad āhur anīśvaram
- aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ
- kim anyat kāma-haitukam
- (BG 16.8)
"They say that this world is unreal and that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust."
Prabhupāda: Accident. "Some man woman meets. Accidentally they become sexually inclined, and there is a child." Bas. So much. Why God? It is accidental, that's all. How vividly described.
Prabhupāda: His wife is also nice, but when they are combined together, they become little spoiled. He becomes little lusty. That is his wife's complaint. I got them married in San Francisco. (pause) So you can give another letter to the manager, Bank, "You take eighty thousand from current account and twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta. Both together, you make one M.M.D., M.M.D.A."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For seven years.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They'll be happy. They're suffering. (Hindi) Is that civilization? "You could not supply me petrol. I shot you." What is this? How much animalistic a human being can be. (aside:) Wake up. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣaḥ. The people are being educated to become too much lusty, and as soon as their lust is not fulfilled, they'll be angry. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. And the krodha was, anger was so intense that he killed another person. No consideration that "What he can do? The petrol is finished." He simply says, "Now my stock is finished." So therefore he should be killed?
Mr. Rajda: Now this information will.... I shall be interested to read from it.
Page Title: | Lust (Conversations) |
Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
Created: | 25 of May, 2011 |
Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=101, Let=0 |
No. of Quotes: | 101 |