Lower than (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"lower than"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: And that's why I wondered if there were prohibitions within, you know, the outside contact with society that you make.

Prabhupāda: But our formula is that one should live... It is called sato vṛtteḥ. The vṛtti, the profession or the means of livelihood, must be very fair. Must be very fair. Sato vṛtteḥ. Because association will contaminate my mind and my intelligence, therefore, as far as possible, sato vṛtti. And this sato vṛtti is a Sanskrit word. According to the purification of profession, livelihood, one is called a brāhmaṇa, one is called a kṣatriya, one is called a vaiśya, one is called a śūdra, one is called lower than the śūdras. You see? So that is also... But in this age one cannot stick to a particular profession. Just like for the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas... For brāhmaṇas it is enjoined that they should learn scripture and they should preach scripture. That's all. They have six kinds of occupation. One of the main is this, to learn and to teach. But at the present moment everything has changed. So there is change. But as far as possible, we don't accept a profession or any job which is abominable.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human being, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness and thus they become lower than animals. The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life they use it for sense gratification and thus they become lower than the animals. So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any sadācāra, then he doesn't care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn't mind.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Without knowing that the soul is eternal, everybody would be acting like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... Bodily concept of life means animal life. The animal does not know. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Go-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and kharaḥ means ass. One who is in the, under bodily concept of life, he is no better than animals. So when the animal talks of knowledge, an intelligent man laughs. That is our position. The animals, they are talking of knowledge.

Paramahaṁsa: At least, the animals live by certain codes. They do not kill unless necessary. They only eat when necessary, whereas man, he kills unnecessarily, eats unnecessarily. So forgetting God, we are even lower than animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we suffer also, more than the animals. (pause) So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a bogus religious sentimental movement. It is a scientific movement. So now it is up to you to prove this. Then you will be actually Kṛṣṇa conscious. (pause) (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they were saying that everything in the universe is just happening by chance.

Prabhupāda: So you are writing book by chance. Then what is the value of your book?

Karandhara: The book is also by chance.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

Buddhist Monk (1): Is the only way.

Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: Well, for example, even in animal society, there is more animals, there's more insects, there's more birds than human society. But there's no question... They have no starvation. They have no nuclear warfare. Because they live as they're, as Kṛṣṇa has meant them to be, as their karma dictates. But in our situation we are meant to understand Kṛṣṇa. This, the goal of human life, is to use our developed consciousness to serve God. But unfortunately, since we misuse this for selfish motives, therefore we have descended lower than animals. Therefore we have not even the simple harmony that animal life has. Therefore we have mass warfare. Therefore we have greed, economic distress and pollution. All these things are caused simply because we have not used our human life for understanding Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: I think what you are saying, in a sense, is that generally the people are innocent. They grow up... And the goals of life are forced upon them, sort of, and actually that is not, the real goal is still missing.

Malcolm: They would say, yes, that there is... The number is too many.

Śyāmasundara: The number of goals?

Malcolm: No, the number of people to support a system of return.

Śyāmasundara: Return to the real goal.

Malcolm: To the real goal. They feel oppressed into supporting the number system because it's...

Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Especially in America, people are very much afraid of... They won't even mention or think about death which is a great weakness. One should be able to think about death.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is... That is natural. That is natural. Suppose if, after my death, I am going to become something lower than my present position, certainly I must be afraid of it.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if somebody gives me... This is a fact. Recently one astrologer has said that one of the biggest politicians in India, he has now become a dog in Sweden. May be correct or not, but there is possibility. There is possibility.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Because from the śāstra we understand, karmāṇa, by work, one has to... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). By prakṛti, by nature, as we make... Just like if we eat little more, so by the laws of nature, immediately there is indigestion.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot deny this adjustment. So why not...? I am sufferer of my karma. So according to my karma, I get a body,...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No big man thinks like that. He thinks always small.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is natu... That is good. Big, big man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was lear... "I am fool number one." And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that "I am lower than the, a worm in the stool." So this is good attitude. Nobody... Sir Isaac Newton also used to say that "What knowledge I have got. I have simply collected..." They're... Every, every big man thinks like that. That is good attitude. But there is comparative study, that "Here is a big man, here is a common man." So our proposition is that it is a great science, great philosophy. So western countries, they are intelligent, especially the Britain, British people. They had very good opportunity. Still they have got opportunity. So my request is that let us study this philosophy and science and if possible introduce it in the human society. That is our proposal.

Śyāmasundara: I think Lord Brockway was saying that his ideal is that, at present moment, that men of the world try to make an understanding, intellectual understanding of the problems and try to make an intellectual solution...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But there is no disappointment. Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

(BG 9.32)

So even one is śūdra, we can give him deliverance by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is our perfection. It doesn't matter he has become a śūdra. But Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ, even if you are lower than the śūdra, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, then he also attains the perfection, goes back to home, back to Godhead. So there is no cause of disappointment because everyone has become śūdra. There is remedy also.

Reporter: Even the śūdras can...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lower than śūdra. Why śūdra? Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They become purified if they accept the real representative of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ. Everything is there in the śāstras. If you take advantage of the benefit of the śāstras, everything can be remodeled, everything can be good. There is no cause for disappointment. But unfortunately they'll not agree. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti. One who is acting whimsically, without any reference of the authoritative śāstra, he'll never get success, na siddhim avāpnoti. Na sukham: neither happiness. And what to speak of going to the spiritual world? It is impossible. So we have to take the advantage of the instruction in the śāstra. Now Kṛṣṇa is accepted the supreme authority by all the ācāryas. The molder of destiny of India's culture, all the ācāryas.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And that foolishness has killed the whole Vedic civilization.

Yaśomatīnandana: I thought the same way before I became a disciple of Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Here is a... He comes from a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, but he knows...

Yaśomatīnandana: Well I realized afterwards that I was lower than a śūdra, because actually it was my duty and I rejected it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why we are accepting in Europe and America all them brāhmaṇa? They are not born in brāhmaṇa family. But why we are giving them sacred thread? Only for quality and work. That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī, they are rejected from brāhmaṇa family because they're servants of Nawab Hussain Shah and they adopted Muslim way of life. Their name was also changed-Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika, this Mallika (laughs), Sākara Mallika. But although they're born in brāhmaṇa family, but they're rejected from the brāhmaṇa family because they accepted service. Formerly the brāhmaṇas were so strict. Brāhmaṇa cannot accept any service. Then he becomes śūdra. To accept service is the business of the śūdra. And it is warned in the śāstra. If a brāhmaṇa becomes economically poor, he may act as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, not as a śūdra. Then it will be quite degradation. So now this, what is this brāhmaṇa, he's in service?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think he's a physicist now. I think he came here about one year before I came here.

Prabhupāda: So if he's in service, then he's śūdra.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: No one equal to or greater than.

Prabhupāda: No, that you cannot find here in this material world. Anyone has relative position. Everyone will find somebody is greater than him, somebody is lower than him. He's not absolute, nobody. A rough estimate of supremacy: if one man has got, is very rich, he's considered great. If he has got influence, if he has got bodily strength, bodily beauty, wisdom, or renunciation... These are the six items for calculating a man's greatness. Therefore when you speak, "God, the Supreme," He must possess all these things. That is the definition given by Parāśara Muni. The other day we were discussing. Somebody said, "This is all imagination." Why imagination? Who was telling?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientist.

Prabhupāda: Scientist! (laughs) So how, why it is imagination? Your idea of supremacy, you must define. How do you accept here in this material world a person as supreme? Why? Why you accept Nixon as supreme person within your state? What is the cause?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because he has some power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh?

Karandhara: He's elected.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Then his argument would be that he is trying to teach a lesson that the higher...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darśinaḥ, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darśinaḥ. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Nārāyaṇa? Just like this morning we read nārāyaṇa-pade. Never said daridra-nārāyaṇa-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower. Does it mean surrender? Surrender, this relationship means that to whom I surrender, he is greater than me. And to the lower, mercy. These two words. One who is lower than me, I may show my mercy, but one who is greater than me, there is the question of surr... (break) (end)

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...of the Hindu culture as we have suffered from Muslims.

Prabhupāda: No, it is all gone.

Dr. Patel: That is why, that is why you don't speak much of Muslims. But they are rogues and rascals, lower than...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't hate Muslims. I have got many students, Muslims.

Dr. Patel: No, we don't hate. I mean, what they have done in past, their forefathers. They have demolished so many temples. Because they did not... They were all (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: And this is all going on. Even in the Kurus' family, the other party, how much wrong they did to the Pāṇḍavas. They insulted their wife, they took their kingdom, and so many... They sent them to the forest, banishment. What did they not do? It is not the question of Hindu-Muslim. It is the question of the man, who is concerned.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: That was Prabhupāda's point that it's ironic that in modern societies men are called professors, or being proficient in knowledge, but yet they're ignorant of the soul, which is the most basic knowledge, the most fundamental knowledge. According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spiritual. (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national, not outside that, sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul? (French)

Yogeśvara: He understands English.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...not within the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means this varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas, four āśrama. And those who are lower than the śūdras, they are not in the Vedic culture. They are called caṇḍālas. Among these caṇḍālas, the mleccha, yavana, are also there. There are. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So they are also caṇḍālas, fifth status. Fourth status, up to śūdra, and then all fifth status. So amongst the fifth status, there are all meat-eaters, without any restriction. And there are dog-eaters. So amongst them, the fifth status, one who eats dog, he is considered most abominable.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would a Vedic king try to prohibit such persons from eating...

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...animals of any kind? Would a Vedic king try to prohibit the fifth-class men from eating the animals?

Prabhupāda: No. Animals, you can eat if you like. But there was no slaughterhouse. If you like, you can kill your own animal and eat. That was open. But the state did not maintain any slaughterhouse. And the third-class, fourth-class men, they would eat. So simply by saying that "You don't eat," they will not accept that. They're free, but the state would not maintain the slaughterhouse. At the present moment also, if the slaughterhouse are closed, then immediately seventy-five-percent meat-eating will be stopped. They maintain slaughterhouse. That is the most sinful activity.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So if we do not properly use this human form of body, if we become subjected to sinful life, then we get a different type of body, very—animal life, tree's life, plant's life, aquatic's life, insect life. Or even we are promoted to the higher standard of life, as in higher planets the demigods, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age and disease, we cannot avoid, either in the higher planetary or in the lower planetary system. But if we want eternal life of bliss and knowledge, then we must endeavor in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And such persons who are endeavoring for this purpose, they are called first-class men. And they are called brāhmaṇas or the first-class men. So society must be divided into four classes: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. That is general. Those who are endeavoring for realizing God, they are first-class men. Those who are less intelligent—they are trying to rule over the material world—they are second-class men. And those who are engaged in producing food and cow protection, they are third-class. And those who are useless for any of these three occupational duties, they are called fourth-class. And those who are still lower than that, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class, like that. So our educational system should be so arranged that there may be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men, not less than fourth-class men. Then the social structure will be in order and everyone will be peaceful, aiming at the point, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) We shall go this way? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have time.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha: "I am lower than the Jagāi Mādhāi."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And to utter my name..." I think the next verse he says, "To utter my name will bring all..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mora nāma śune yei tāra puṇya kṣaya: "If one takes my name, then whatever little pious activities you have, it is spoiled." Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205), jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha. Mora nāma śune yei tāra puṇya kṣaya. How humble he is.

Hari-śauri: Mahārāja Pratāparudra was also thinking like that.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: Mahārāja Pratāparudra, when he was refused interview by Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: He was thinking, "He saved Jagāi and Mādhāi, but I am so low that I am not able to see Him."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Jagāi-Mādhāi was delivered, but I am so lower that I have no chance of being delivered." Pratāparudra Mahārāja.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there were aborigines. In India there are still aborigines, ādivāsī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were saying, Prabhupāda, the Huns.

Prabhupāda: Huns.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Huns. They were considered like that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Huns are also lower than the śūdras, caṇḍālas, dog-eaters, animal-eaters. And these Europeans historians, they take the aborigines, their original father.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their what, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Original father.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said, "Yes, they are your original father."

Prabhupāda: No, no. "The aborigines, the naked jaṅgalīs, they were original person." Do they not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Before that, there was the caveman.

Prabhupāda: Ah, caveman. That's... Caveman. That is aborigine.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is not service. That is mercy. One who is potential devotee, to show him mercy, develop him to become a devotee, that is mercy. That is not service. Service can be rendered to the higher person. And to the lower person you can show your mercy.

Guru dāsa: Oh, that's a good distinction.

Hari-śauri: That's said in Upadeśāmṛta...

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who is lower than you, he requires your mercy. You give him mercy. And who is higher than you, you give him service. Not that Vivekananda did, that everyone service. No, service to the higher person. And to the lower person? Mercy.

Guru dāsa: Someone asked me the other day if I knew Swami...

Prabhupāda: And equal person? Friendship.

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if one serves the higher devotees and shows compassion to less advanced devotees, then where is the question, say, for a position of an advanced devotee who is feeling himself to be the lowest? So is that distinction still there of higher and lower? If he is feeling himself to be the lowest?

Prabhupāda: He does not feel lowest. He takes sympathy that "Here is a person. He can be a devotee. So let me raise him to the standard." He does not think that he is lowest. Devotee always thinks that he is lower than the worm. But it is the duty. It is the duty. It does not mean that he is thinking, "I am higher." No.

Guru dāsa: That's again mercy.

Prabhupāda: Mercy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, he doesn't consider that he's advanced and that therefore he is showing mercy to lower.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He is always thinking, "I am lower than the worm, but Lord Kṛṣṇa wants, so let me do some service. That's all."

Guru dāsa: That is our occupation, to show mercy to others.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even Vaiṣṇava...

Dr. Patel: All Vaiṣṇava.... I mean Vaiṣṇava ācāryas suffered extremely than that.

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja Gosvāmī, who has written this immortal Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he is presenting himself, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: (CC Adi 5.205) "I am lower than the worms in the stool." Just see. He is not hypocrite. He is feeling like that. "Oh, what is my value?" Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha, jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha. Jagāi-Mādhāi was a...

Dr. Patel: Those two boys Caitanya...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he says, "I am more sinful than Jagāi-Mādhāi." Mora nāma yei laya tāra puṇya kṣaya: "If anyone remembers me, then whatever pious activities he has done, it is all finished."

Dr. Patel: These Vaiṣṇava ācāryas don't allow their feet to be touched because they feel that he should...

Prabhupāda: So why they do not utilize it proper?

Dr. Patel: This is a private thing. They want to be (indistinct) My daughter (indistinct) boy who is studying.... He has his M.D. of London (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It is settled up. Very nice. And son? Your son?

Dr. Patel: My son is in the Caine(?) Hospital, a professor of medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he is also married? No.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Or translation. No, Sanskrit also. The mantra, hearing, that is very valuable. These are all Vedic mantras. If you simply hear, it helps you spiritually.

Hṛdayānanda:

manye dhanābhijana-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

tejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya

"Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him."

viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

"If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications (as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta) but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself."

naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇo

mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

tac cātmane prati-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ

"The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always fully satisfied in Himself. Therefore when something is offered to Him, the offering, by the Lord's mercy, is for the benefit of the devotee, for the Lord does not need service from anyone. To give an example, if one's face is decorated, the reflection of one's face in a mirror is also seen to be decorated."

tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam

nīco 'jayā guṇa-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

"Therefore, although I was born in a demoniac family, I may without a doubt offer prayers to the Lord with full endeavor, as far as my intelligence allows. Anyone who has been forced by ignorance to enter the material world may be purified of material life if he offers prayers to the Lord and hears the Lord's glories."

sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

kṣemāya bhūtaya utātma-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

"O my Lord, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, are sincere servants of Your Lordship, who are situated in a transcendental position. Therefore they are not like us (Prahlāda and his father, the demon Hiraṇyakaśipu). Your appearance in this fearsome form is Your pastime for Your own pleasure. Such an incarnation is always meant for the protection and improvement of the universe."

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or a snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: You are reading the transcription or original verse?

Hṛdayānanda: Transcription.

Prabhupāda: So this transcription is quite helpful in pronunciation, everything. Exact it is coming. The diacritic marks follow, you can pronounce exactly.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Mind's business is restlessness. Where is surprising? Therefore we have to fix up our mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there is no way. It is very restless. That is the nature. The yogis, they try to control the mind by mechanical process-dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma. (break) Cigarette is, I think, advertised, "Nobody is lower than me." That means no other cigarette is lower in poisonous effect. In a different way it is advertised. "Nobody is lower than me." Humble.

Ādi-keśava: Who is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Cigarette is full of poison. It is being advertised, "Nobody is lower than me."

Ādi-keśava: Oh, yes, the tar content.

Prabhupāda: That means "I am first, I am first class." Less poison. "Nobody contains lower poison than me." (break) ...city, when it was constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of the buildings are from the early 1800s, 1850. Like the Museum of Natural History that we visited, that was 1869. It was settled even earlier than that.

Hṛdayānanda: It was always a very important city. For almost two or three hundred years it's been a very important city for trade, business, commerce.

Prabhupāda: When you first settled?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the 1600s.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: A devotee should always feel lower than the straw in the street. (Mrs. Marchand speaks)

Translator: She wants to know if it is recommended that a woman become a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: Woman should stay under the father, under the husband, and under the elderly sons. Nothing more. Therefore it is the duty of the father to give her in charge of a young man when she is young. This is Vedic culture.

Translator: She's asking what should a woman do if she is alone?

Prabhupāda: She cannot be alone. Na sataritatam ananti(?). Woman should not be allowed... Just like children. Children cannot be alone. They must taken care of. Similarly a woman, in childhood, should be taken care of by the father; when she's young, she should be taken care of by the husband; and when she's old, she should be taken care of by elderly sons. You'll find in the Vedic literature, the father's responsibility is until she's handed over to a suitable young man. And the husband's responsibility is so long she hasn't got elderly children. At that time, when she has got elderly children, he can leave home and take sannyāsa. So the process is a woman is kept under protection always. There is no independence for woman. That is... Still, in India it is going on. The father is obliged to find out a suitable husband for the daughter and give her in his charge. Then his responsibility finished. Until that, she is, he's responsible to take care of the daughter. Unmarried girl to remain always under the protection of the father.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...

Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.

Krishna Modi: And in the comparison of India?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in some respects I found them even lower than India. You'll be amazed... I visited all the leading libraries of Russia and Leningrad. Moscow University Library, all the big libraries. These libraries don't have any foreign exchange for ordering these books. They all want to order... They were begging me for free books. They said, "Why don't you give us a donation or exchange." They have a book exchange that if they give their books then we give our books. Each library gets such little foreign exchange allowance to buy books from abroad.

Prabhupāda: A taxi driver, he was asking some bhakshish.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...the society. Eh? Father, mother, killing children, is that human society?

Rāmeśvara: No, lower than animal.

Prabhupāda: You see? And we have to tolerate this?

Rāmeśvara: Well, what about all these artificial divisions, "this nation," "that nation," "this land"?

Prabhupāda: That is also another fanaticism.

Rāmeśvara: Nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another fanaticism, gundaism. Not nationalism. Gundaism. "Everything belongs to God. We are sons of God. We must enjoy everywhere. You cannot check."

Rāmeśvara: It seems that eventually, then, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement will establish one world government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Actually that is the meaning.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: How you can prove? You can hear only. There are many things which is beyond your sense perception. The example which I often give, that "Who is your father?" What is proof? The proof is the hearing from mother. That's all. You cannot have any other proof.

Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.

(text 4)

nijagrāhaujasā vīraḥ

kaliṁ digvijaye kvacit

nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ

ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā

(translation) "Once when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on his way to conquer the world, he saw the master of Kali-yuga, who was lower than a śūdra, disguised as a king and hurting the legs of a cow and bull. The King at once caught hold of him to deal sufficient punishment." (purport) "The purpose of a king's going out to conquer the world is not for self-aggrandizement. Mahārāja Parīkṣit went out to conquer the world after his ascendance on the throne, but this was not for the purpose of aggression on other states. He was the emperor of the world, and all small states were under his regime. His purpose in going out was to see how things were going on in terms of the godly state. The king, being the representative of the Lord, has to execute the will of the Lord duly. There is no question of self-aggrandizement. Thus as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw that a lower-class man in the dress of a king was hurting the legs of a cow and bull..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...there the injunction of the śāstra, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. Cow should be protected. Kṛṣṇa said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say chāgala-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. So it is the duty of the king or the state or the government to give protection to the cows. This is śāstric injunction. But nowadays neither the state or government is giving protection to the cow. They are becoming implicated with so many problems. I heard that India again is now slaughtering cows.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. And what is the purpose of doing so many sinful activities? Yad indriya-prītaya, only for sense gratification. There is no other aim. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, don't do this." So who is giving protection to these rascals who are educated to act sinfully? That is in Bhāgavata. "No, no." Na sādhu manye. "This is not good." "But why not good? Let me enjoy." "No, you will not enjoy.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: (laughing) You don't blame me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.

Ram Jethmalani: Well, some of these slum-dwellers are not harijanas and some of them are Muslims, some of them are...

Prabhupāda: Anyone, anyone. You see. My all disciples, they are coming. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, every kind. Mostly they are my disciples.