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Laws of the government (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So we must know our relationship with God. That is the first subject matter of this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then if we understand our relationship, we can act accordingly. At the present moment we are, some of us declining God. "There is no God." Some of them have little conception of God, "God is great," but they do not try to understand what is actual relationship with God. They are not very serious. In this way, practically we are avoiding our eternal relationship with God, and therefore we cannot act properly, and that is the cause of all miseries. That is the cause of all problems. Just like if you do not know the state laws, then you do not act properly. You are always criminal. For example, if you do not know how to drive, "keep to the right," if you drive to the left, you may think, "Oh, it is after all driving. What does it matter, right or left?" But no. As soon as you drive left, you become criminal. Similarly, because we do not know our relationship with God, therefore we are acting wrongly, and therefore, under the laws of God, we are becoming more and more criminal and our problems are increasing. Therefore, in spite of advancement of education, science, civilization, a nice dress, car, and everything, nobody trusts nobody. You see? Everywhere you go, a gentleman's house, oh, "Beware of the dog," "No trespasser allowed." Always suspicious.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state." So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: So his activities are never independent, either in Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by māyā always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: God is Great. This is also one stage, appreciating the greatness of God. Then further development, dāsya-rasa, willing to serve. Oh! God is so great, and I must serve service because everyone of us are serving somebody. So why not serve the Supreme? Nobody is free from service because we are constitutionally the servant. Either we become the servant of the Great or māyā. Just like in any condition of our lives, we have to abide by the laws of the state. If he says that we don't abide then come to prisonhouse. You will be forced. Similarly, māyā and Kṛṣṇa. If we don't abide by Kṛṣṇa, then come to māyā. He cannot be free. That is not our position. Freedom is frustration.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is trying to lord it over. That is material existence. And when he comes to his senses, jñānavān, that "I am falsely trying to lord it over. Rather, I am becoming implicated with material energy," when he comes to that, then he surrenders. Then again his liberated life begins. That is the whole process of spiritual life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture ways and means, falsely trying to lord it over. That will... You'll not be happy because you cannot lord it over the material nature. It is impossible. If we try to violate the government laws, is it possible for me? No. If I am to live as a citizen, it is not possible for me. Then I'll implicate more and more. This is crude example. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme. J

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Through ignorance one commits sin. Just like a man kills somebody in ignorance that he will be killed also. He does not know. Just like so many people are killing animals. They do not know that the animal also kill him. That is ignorance. Just like here the law is life for life. If you take one life, then you have to give your life. State law. Is it not? If you kill somebody, then you'll be killed also. So why not God's law like that? But they are ignorant; they are killing animals. That is ignorance. Killing means sin. Why they are committing this sin? Ignorance.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like children, they do not know what is government. They are satisfied with their eating, sleeping, playing, that's all. They have no other concern. But when one is grown up, he knows what is government. He has to abide by the state laws. Now you are grown up, if you violate the law "Keep to the right," you'll be criminal. But a child, if he violates the law, animal violates the law, he has no... But if a adult person violates the law, he'll be criminal. You cannot say, "I'm free." No. Law will not excuse. But if a children commits something... Suppose you, if you take something from my table, it is for you criminal. But if a child takes something from my table, it is not criminal.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: They say in future they will be able. But how we can believe it? Because in the past they could not; in the present also they are unable. How they can overcome the laws of nature in the future? History repeats. Same failure there is (indistinct). Therefore the divine means, as we define, the divine means the controller of the laws of nature. Laws of nature there is, and everyone is under the laws of nature. Nobody can overcome the laws of nature. Just like state laws. Every citizen is bound to abide by the state law. He cannot overcome it. If..., if he overcomes it then, or violates it, the violation of law, and he becomes punishable. Similarly the laws of nature means laws of God. Just like your president is the giver of your state law. Similarly, as soon as we say laws of nature, there must be giver of them.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible. Just like the citizens, if they create their own way of śānti, there cannot be peace. If they abide by the orders of the government, by the laws of the government, there will be peace. This is crude example. Similarly, if you do not accept God in the center as the Supreme Proprietor and the Supreme Enjoyer and the Supreme Friend, then there is no peace.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God. Where there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side." "Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side, sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why do they not make their own law, that I have got my own law. I don't care for state law." Will they be accepted?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll be caught.

Brahmānanda: Anyone who does that is either criminal or insane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, insane. All criminality is done when one is insane. That is the definition of the Vedas. Everyone is criminal when he's insane. Sane man never commits any criminality. Just like when a, when a man commits murder, unless he becomes insane, he cannot commit murder.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to, I want to follow my own aim and desire, my own morality. They say like that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why don't you do that in case of your relationship to the state. Suppose the state says: "You must drive to the right." Why don't you drive on the left? Why do you obey the state laws? What does he say? You do whatever you like.

Brahmānanda: That means there's someone more powerful than they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The spiritual master is the most beneficent friend, he is giving you direction from the śāstra. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "He is the real welfare worker for the human society." Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. You see śāstra is giving direction. So many lawyers are going to the school colleges to learn the government laws. Why they are taking so much trouble? Just to give people the direction that "You work under this direction, you will not be in difficulty." Similarly the spiritual master is the lawyer. He knows things as they are. He gives direction to the disciple so that he'll be happy. He will not be in trouble.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Śyāmasundara: He means the word law? What does it mean?

Prabhupāda: Just like, just like we are within the state law.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is somebody above the state laws; otherwise how the state laws is made?

Krishna Tiwari: Well, I don't know which, somebody, in which sense we try to imagine it.

Prabhupāda: Why not imagine it? As soon as you say law, there must be law-giver.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: For you, law-giver may be something, for me, law-giver may be something else.

Prabhupāda: No, law-giver is the same thing for you and me. Just like state laws comes from the government.

Krishna Tiwari: Government is nothing. This comes from people.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is an institution which is called government. It may be people.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, which is made by people.

Prabhupāda: But still, you, you are not controller of the state laws.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yes, in a way I am. In a way I am.

Prabhupāda: No. Anyway, that is a different thing. But you cannot violate the state laws.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, well, we can avoid them. If there is a bad law, you can change.

Prabhupāda: Then you'll be punished. The state laws give you law that you cannot drive your car on the left.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yeah, quite right.

Prabhupāda: So if you violate, you become a criminal.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: How can I agree? Government is us. We govern ourselves.

Prabhupāda: You are. You are. You are ordered not to drive your car on the left: you must.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I shouldn't, I shouldn't. I don't want to.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are under the laws of the government. Therefore you are under the laws of the government.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spirit in themselves, they are not opposition.

Father Tanner: Can they be in opposition?

Prabhupāda: No. When they are in opposition, they have to accept this material body. Just like the citizens in the prison house, it means they are all in opposition to the laws of the state, similarly, anyone who is in this material world, they are in opposition to the supreme will of the Lord. Therefore they are put into this material world in varieties of life. So they can stop that opposition and again go back to home, back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: One cannot violate the nature's law. You can violate the state law. Suppose you kill somebody, you can escape by trick. But you cannot escape nature's law. As many times you have killed, so many times you have to be killed within the womb. This is nature's law.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: In every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God. So how there can be two religions? There cannot be two religions. "I believe like that, we believe like that." These are man-made. But actual religion is that God is one and religion means the orders, the law given by God. That's all. Simple definition. Just like state is one, government is one, and to become good citizen means to abide by the laws of the government. That's all. Those, one who is abiding by the laws of God, he is perfect religionist. It doesn't matter whether he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim or a Christian. Whether he has got proper sense what is meant by God and what is the order of God.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: That... Then they say "Well, it's a stand-off, that I say I'm right and that you say you are right. So it cannot be..."

Prabhupāda: But that, therefore there is confusion. The world position is like that. Now it is confusion. Everything is...

Bali Mardana: Conflict.

Prabhupāda: ...in confusion. That is chaotic condition. Every citizen says, "I don't accept government law. I have got my own law." It is confusion.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes. But still, they said, "No, we are..." This is an example.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: This suffering comes from our sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). I shall give you protection from sinful reaction of your life because you are suffering for sinful reaction. Suffering means if you disobey the laws of the state, you suffer. That is sinful. Because you have disobeyed the laws of the state, you are suffering.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sinful means, generally, what is against the law of God. That is sinful. Just like what is criminal? Any action which is against the law of the state, that is criminal. Similarly, sinful means what is against the law of God. That is sinful. But you do not know what is God. You do not know what is the law of God. Therefore you do not know what is sin. That you have to learn from us.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā says, "Surrender." If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then Bhagavad-gītā says... You cannot understand... If you want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, you must understand from Bhagavad-gītā. And apart from Bhagavad-gītā, you are already surrendered to God; you are not independent. Are you independent? Now, if, when there is rain, we could not come here to walk. So we are already surrendered. You cannot stop the rain and walk. You are already surrendered. So if Bhagavad-gītā says that "You completely surrender," what is the wrong there? You are already surrendered. Just like you are already surrendered to the government laws. If you say, "I don't care for government laws," is that very nice proposal? You're already surrendered.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Outlaw means who does not care for the government laws. Similarly, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). The law means dharma, law. Dharma means to accept the laws of God. And what is the law? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the law. If one cannot accept this, then he's outlaw. Immediately.

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: Religion means the codes and the laws given by the Lord. That is religion. So if one does not surrender to the Lord, then what kind of religion it is? It is not religion. Just like good citizen means who abides by the law of the state. If he does not care for the laws, then what kind of good citizen he is? Similarly, if one does not surrender to the Supreme, then his religion has no meaning. It is simply cheating, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Yeah, that's what they say. They say it's freedom when there is a lack of bad conditioning.

Prabhupāda: That is... Bad condition is good conditioning. Where is freedom? From bad conditioning you are suggesting good conditioning. That is not freedom. Just like you are in the prison house, you are badly conditioned, but the so-called freedom—you are still conditioned under the laws of the state. You are not free. But from bad conditioning to good conditioning. And if you obey the state laws, then you are good citizen. But you are conditioned. How you think of freedom? That is your foolishness.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So there cannot be... but for particular reason or circumstances we call it, but religion is one. That means to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. If you do not know what is God, what is His law, that is another thing. But the religion means to abide by the laws of God, that's all. It cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the state law. So there are many persons, citizens of the state. The law is not that it is for the Christians, it is for the Jews, it is for the Negroes, it is for the white man. It is not like that. Law is the same for everyone.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said there are many examples where the laws of the government are superior to the president. For example, in America where Nixon was pulled down by the laws.

Prabhupāda: But one law... When he was president, he was powerful than the government. When he resigned from the presidency, then he became less important.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: The religious principles cannot be manufactured by anyone within this universe. It is the codes or laws given by God. That is religion. That means we have to know who is God, what is His desire, and we have to abide by that. That is religion. Just like a good citizen means he knows the government and the government laws and he abides by it. Then he is good citizen. Otherwise he is criminal. If he does not abide by the laws of the state, he is criminal. Similarly, if one does not abide by the orders or the codes or the laws of God, he is Satan or demon.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: I am in the prison house, and the prison superintendent is controlling me fully, and if I say, "I don't care for anyone," what is this nonsense? Even in ordinary life, if somebody says, "I don't care for government laws. I shall do whatever I like," is it very good sense? Similarly, you are fully under the control of material nature, and you are declaring independence. You should, rather, consider that "Why I have been put under the control of material nature? I don't want it. I don't want to be diseased. But why disease is forced upon me? I don't want to become old man. Why it is forced upon me? I don't want to die. Why death is forced upon me?" These should be the proper questions. But instead of questioning this, he's thinking, "I am independent." How much foolish he is.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You are keeping slaughterhouse. Why should you keep? The government shouldn't allow you to keep slaughterhouses. If anyone wants to eat meat, let them eat like tigers and others. Individually, kill one animal—a lower animal, not cows. This should be the government law.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws; I cannot violate it," (sic:) then he is sober.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You must accept God's law, not the people's law.

Guest 1: Well, the problem is that we're confined by the state law here just as the boys with the flowers. Now, maybe in Kṛṣṇa's law they did nothing wrong, but they were still subjected to being taken away like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he saved them. He saved them.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Śrutakīrti: Are the lower human species responsible for sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As soon as one is human being, he is responsible. Just like your state laws. Suppose a aborigine comes and does something criminal, will he be excused? Animal may be excused, but the man will not be excused.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment the human society does not know what is the meaning of religion. The meaning of religion is to abide by the laws of God, just like a good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state, of the government. Because we have no understanding of God, therefore we do not know what is the laws of God, and therefore we do not know what is religion. That is the present status of the human society.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Guest: Swami, what about those who practice one of the other religions in...?

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. I have repeatedly said. Religion is to abide by the orders of God. Nobody knows what is God, and nobody knows what is the order of God. Or even if one knows, he does not carry it. So how there can be religion? If you abide by the state laws, then you are lawful, but if you do not abide by the state laws, how you can become lawful? If you violate the laws, how you can become lawful? If you follow religion, then you must follow strictly the religious principles. And if you have no business to follow the religious principles, how you can become religious? Is it possible?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: There is superior arrangement. So to accept that superior arrangement, that is real business, not to declare freedom falsely. That is not possible. If I say, "I am free from the law-abiding process, law given by government; I am free from the law of the government," that is not possible. If you become outlaw, then you will be arrested and put into jail. So what is the use of declaring that "I am free from the government laws"? There is no freedom. Whatever little freedom is given to us, if you utilize it properly, that is very nice. If we unnecessarily declare that "I am free from any obligation," that is madman's proposal.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...indirect worship, abiding. Just like you don't worship the government, revolt. But when you are put into jail you have to worship the government.

Akṣayānanda: We don't worship, yet we don't break the law.

Prabhupāda: You cannot break the law. Outside you break law. That you can do. But when you are put into jail, then you cannot. And jail means unless the government finds that you are now obedient to the government laws.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Kṛṣṇa. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. Mūḍha. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he (thinks), "I shall... I don't care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don't care for government, I don't care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face-laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don't care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness. Similarly, these laws of nature means the force of the Supreme. So if you want to defy, you may waste your time. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: All speculation. Claims only. Repeatedly religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God.... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?

Devotee (2): The world religions are not presented very scientifically.

Prabhupāda: Many religions. God is one. Religion is one. If you do not know God, then you do not know religion.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, their whole plan is to avoid responsibility.

Prabhupāda: That is sinful. As soon as you irresponsible, you are sinful. (break) ...soon as you forget the simple truth that you are servant of God, you are irresponsible. Now your suffering begins. (break) ...kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). Just like as citizen of your state, you have to abide by the laws of the state. As soon as you disobey, you are irresponsible. That's all. You suffer. Good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state. And as soon as you break it, immediately you are irresponsible and you must be punished.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: If we declare that we are independent of the laws of nature, is it possible? Is it possible? Then where is your independence? Why you are declaring falsely independence? If you declare yourself independent of God, then you become dependent on māyā. Just like the criminals. They don't care for the laws of the government. They become under the laws of the prison house, that's all. There is no question of independence. Either you remain free or in the prison house, you are under the laws of government. So why falsely declaring independent and don't care for the government?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The atheist will suffer. Just like anyone who is outlaw, does not believe in the government's law, he'll suffer. If somebody says, "I don't care for government laws," then he'll suffer. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's a rascal. He may say so, like madman, that "I don't care for government and government laws," but naturally he'll be punished. He'll be put into jail and suffer. That he cannot check. He may, with empty words, he can say "I don't care for government," but does it mean that he can escape the government laws? That is not possible. Government will see that "Here is a lunatic rascal. Put him into the jail," that's all. Is it not? Is it not practical?

Devotee (1): He can say also that "What is the difference? You are also..., you have to farm..."

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, you and me, but we are talking of government laws.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have no idea of God, and how they will know what is the order of God? And religion means order of God. Just like law means order of the state. Law means order of the state. So if there is no state, where is the order? You can manufacture your own order. That is going on. There is no conception of God. We have got clear conception of God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. And He's giving orders. We accept it. And it is clear religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: So many other people, they concoct their own system and they say "This is the way to go to God."

Prabhupāda: Then let them suffer. What can be done? What can be done? If you don't take the laws of the state, you manufacture your own laws, then you'll suffer. If the state says, "Keep to the right," and if make your own law, "No, keep to the left," then you'll suffer. It's a fact.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: Suppose there is a law of the state, ordinary, say, "Keep to the right," and in this village all members, they assemble together and pass a resolution that "No, keep to the left." Will it be accepted? Even they pass a resolution, the state will not accept it. Unless it is... Of course, there should be no change. But, anything spoken by God or His son or His representative, that cannot be changed. It is not that Christ said two thousand years ago, "Thou shall not kill," now it can be changed. That is rascaldom.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: The system is the boys and girls should be married earlier, and they should work, and there should be no divorce. But whether your country law will allow, that is another difficulty. You may introduce something, but the state law may not approve of it.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Law given by the state, that is law. If you create a law at home, that is not law. Dharma means what is ordained by Kṛṣṇa, God, that is dharma. And other things, that may be temporary. You can create some laws within your family, but that is not generally applicable to others. But when it is given by the government, that is real law. That is applicable to all people. When you go out to the street, you have to abide by the laws of the state, the light. As soon as there is red light, you have to stop. At home you may not make such rules and regulations. But that is within your home, that is not general.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That's all. That is important thing.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The outlaw they will say, "We don't care for government." You may say so, but government will take action. You cannot avoid it. This is humanity. Good citizenship means one who knows the laws of the state, that is good citizen. If one does not know the laws of the state, he's a fool. He's not a good citizen. One who knows the law, he keeps right and left, he knows this is the order of the government, cars should be driven on the right side or left side. He is good citizen. One who does not know the law of the state, he's not a good citizen. He's a fool, rascal.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why the green apple does not fall down? So this is their concoction. And why the other planets do not fall down? With so many rocks. Millions. They do not fall down. Where is the law of gravity acting? That means, law means it is made by somebody. And the maker, if He likes, it will act. If He does not like, it will not act. Just like Lord Rāmacandra, all the stones He threw over the sea and they began to float. Not that when He made that bridge with stones, they are solidified. No, they began to float. And all the monkeys went over them. So the lawmaker is Lord Rāmacandra. If He likes, the stone will go down. If He doesn't like, it will float. The lawmaker is fact, not the law. Just like in the state law, today it is law, tomorrow it is no law. It depends on the lawmaker.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The teacher is giving you instruction, but you don't accept. Then how you'll be educated? This is going on. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). They do not accept. They will write comments on Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. You see? Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Yes. As it is. Don't comment in your own way. You'll not get any profit. Take for example any law, government law. Can I comment in my own way?

Doctor: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why you comment on Bhagavad-gītā?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The Catholic marriages are indissolvable. They can't remarry. Now they have done it.

Prabhupāda: Now you have also done in India, so many.

Dr. Patel: We have got a government law, that sue the fellow for dissolution. Hindus. Mr. Nehru has done-great service to his community.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation but not sell it. They are such... Tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two, one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.

Prabhupāda: So you want to keep there?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If you do not know God, if you do not know how to surrender to God, then where is your religion? If you do not know government, you do not know the law of the government, then where is the question of becoming... (break) ...therefore we are misguided. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is God, and He's asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). What is that śaraṇaṁ vraja? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). There is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Why don't you follow it?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Other religion cannot be. Religion is one: God and what God wants. That is religion. Other religion cannot be. Other law cannot be. Law means which is given by the government. That's all. How there can be other law?

Guest (7): For example there is now government of India and the government of... The laws are there.

Prabhupāda: That may be. The thing is: the real citizenship is to abide by the law of the government. That is the principle. But even if you say that government of India is different from..., the principle is the same. Government means to rule over. Rule over.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is the definition of criminality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One who breaks the law of the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is the law of government? The law of government is to give the citizen best life. So similarly, if we are trying to give them best life, why we should be checked? We are asking them, "No meat-eating, no gambling," so is that bad instruction?

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who gives them the right to cut the telephone wire? That's criminal. That is against the law of the government. You're cutting government property. That's not our property. Telephone wires, all those things, electric wire.

Prabhupāda: That is purposefully planned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And how is it that 250 men suddenly were waiting in the bushes?

Prabhupāda: It is all planned.

Page Title:Laws of the government (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Tugomera
Created:11 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=69, Let=0
No. of Quotes:69