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Laws of nature (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"law of nature" |"laws of nature" |"nature's law" |"nature's laws"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Indian man (1): This houses? This is all rented by the government and given free of charge to the poor to clear the slums.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata says,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
kālena sarvatra gabhīra raṁhasā
(SB 1.5.18)

(Hindi) So three classes of men are there: upper class, middle class. You cannot change it. It is laws of nature.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Just like Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (Hindi) How you can change this? (Hindi) First duty is, first of all enlighten them with knowledge. That is required, not by external bodily comforts. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...

Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?

Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: And not only that, the water is again taken away and it is thrown into the Mississippi. So these rascals who think that "We have now merged. We are now liberated," that is rascaldom. They will be taken away and thrown again. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa... No, this is fact. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They cannot stay. They will be taken away by the nature's law, converted into cloud and thrown away, again come, again come. They are thrown away. They cannot stay. And again they become water and come through. That is going on, coming and going. So their merging is not fact.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The stricture of nature's law, that is science. Is it not scientific effort? They will never be able to do so, but still, they are... To stop death, birth, death, old age, is very major problem, but even in small things you cannot do anything. Everywhere you are dependent. And still, they are very much proud that they are advancing in scientific knowledge so that they can overcome the stringent laws of nature and so on, so on. Durāśaya. It is called durāśaya, hope which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Durāśaya. Śāstra, Bhāgavata, says, durāśaya. This is their foolishness. They are expecting something which will never be fulfilled. Therefore śāstra says, durāśaya. Now what they are doing about the moon planet?

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...in the Bhagavad-gītā: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "Although they are my part and parcel," mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer."

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. What is this? (break) ...our field or some other field, but food must be there. If you don't eat sufficiently, how you'll be able to work? Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. We are not after dry speculation. Practical. Eat sufficiently. Work sufficiently. Don't be lazy. But the danger is if you eat more than sufficient, then you'll sleep sufficient. Therefore yuktāhāra, as much as you require, take it. Don't take more; don't take less. This is the law of nature. Just like salt. You salt require. But if you take more, it is useless, and if you take less, it is useless. If in the vegetable the salt is more, then it is uneatable; if it is less, uneatable. Take as it is. It is not that "Because there is ocean of salt, let me three pounds' salt." That is going on. "Oh, it is available? Now let me eat." And then he becomes sick.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no, future means, just like.... This is the law of nature, that if you steal, you'll be punished. So if I say, "Oh, you are stealing; you'll be punished," this is future. Suppose this is the month of March, and if I say, "In the month of July there will be rain." So I know; you know; everyone knows. This is not a future telling. The natural sequence is everyone knows it.

Madhudviṣa: But does that means that Kṛṣṇa doesn't know something?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.... If everyone knows, why Kṛṣṇa does not know? "He knows everything" means this common sense everyone knows.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.... If everyone knows, why Kṛṣṇa does not know? "He knows everything" means this common sense everyone knows.

Madhudviṣa: Does He know what you will choose?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just try to understand. Future means like this: nature's law; and it will happen. After summer there will be rainy season; it will happen, and they will call, I am foretelling future. It is not future; it is natural sequence, automatically happened.

Satsvarūpa: But that's predictable. If I have my own free will, what I'm going to do, you don't know.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everyone who will commit sinful activities will be punished. That is nature's law. Exactly like that: If you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. The nature's law is so strict, and it is going on. It doesn't require any supervision. The supervisions are already made so perfect. You infect this disease: you suffer from it. That's all.

Pañca-draviḍa: In.... In the society, if somebody would be...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, if you break the laws, you suffer. Anywhere.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sick people.

Prabhupāda: No, for the human society. Not for the birds, beasts. But they follow nature's law. But this rascal violates nature's law and suffers.

Yadubara: What about for the devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes they are very sick, have so many...

Prabhupāda: Devotees.... To become devotee is not so cheap thing. You don't think that because you have got a tilaka you have become devotee. Why do you think like that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So many examples are there. Freedom is there, but you are not absolutely free to do whatever you like.

Guru dāsa: Because of the stringent laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Because you are small. Just like children. He has got freedom, playing. But when he is doing something wrong, father, "You don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this." But if he does it, even he is children, even he's child, he'll suffer. He cannot say, "I am child. I did not know, father." Then that does not matter. You must suffer. You must suffer, even though you are child.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Father takes care, "My dear child, don't do this. Don't touch fire." But still, he touches; he must suffer. The fire will not excuse because he is child. That is not possible. Nature's law will act.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This idea of freedom and independence, is it possible for anyone theoretically to surrender to Kṛṣṇa at any time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let's say someone is in a very degraded condition of life, modes of ignorance, passion. Their mind is always disturbed. Is surrender to Kṛṣṇa.... Is it possible that it can be independent even of the mind?

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We say that not only in India, everyone, you'll starve, because you are rebellious to God consciousness. You must starve. That is the punishment. Just like anyone who is a criminal, he must be punished. That is the law of nature.

Reporter (3): So by that, I suppose one would presume that people in India have been most rebellious to God.

Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Why you speak India?

Reporter (3): Because...

Prabhupāda: When you speak of God, don't take India, or America or Europe. Everywhere.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just see, in all there are so many husbandless girls, and the children have not gone with the husbands, to the man. They are after the mother. How you'll have equal rights? They cannot. At this your heart will cry, "Oh, I have left my children, I am unhappy." That is... Just like our Hari-śauri's grandmother's advice to his mother to kill him. He said. And she refused. This is natural inclination. How... Artificially they are thinking like that, violating nature's law. Therefore they must suffer. As soon as you break ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of being misled by misconception of life, ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra, kartāham, I can do everything. Any little pinch of nature's law, if you break, you'll suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot escape.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore how it is possible? Because, after all, apart from Matan(?) Muni, if this is the rule, that one living entity is the food for another living entity... This is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. You cannot starve and live.

Dr. Patel: But sir...

Prabhupāda: And practically... Eh?

Dr. Patel: We are killing the body and not... The soul is inkillable.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't go to the philosophy. First of all come to the practical. (Dr. Patel laughs) Come to the practical point of view, that after all, you have to eat; otherwise you cannot live. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. So if you have to live another living entity, then how you can practice this ahiṁsā? Mean on the basic principle, the ahiṁsā paramo dharma, where is ahiṁsā?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So therefore, therefore you cannot stop the nature's process. You are dependent. You should first of all understand that you are dependent on nature's process. That is intelligence. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... (BG 3.27). If you extravagantly say that "I shall stop this nature's process," that is lunacy, craziness. It is not possible. You have to accept that you are under the stringent laws of nature.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I couldn't.... I agree with everything that you're saying about the laws of nature.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We can do that. We can do that, that...

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
(BG 7.14)

You cannot combat with the nature's law, but Kṛṣṇa says that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can do that. You can stop nature's law acting upon you. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Carol Jarvis: Why.... Why would you want to stop nature's law acting in its natural way?

Prabhupāda: Because I don't want to be old man, but I am being forced. Therefore I want to stop this force of the nature. That is my natural inclination.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is struggle. Struggle means.... Struggle for existence means there is something against my will, and I want to stop it. This is called struggle for existence. And that is.... The whole world is going on, that.... They have started that United Nation. Why United Nation? You remain.... But they are trying to stop war. "Let us struggle unitedly." So that is going on. You don't want war, but the war is inevitable. Even the United Nation is there, still war is going on. That is struggle. So, but they are not coming to the point of understanding that "We are trying so much, so hard, to become happy, but nature is not allowing me." This is real intelligence. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. If we remain dull—"Let the nature's law act upon me as it likes"—and we go on struggling to stop it, it will never stop, because nature's law is so powerful. You can never stop it.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Everyone...

Carol Jarvis: I'm saying I think I can be happy by working within nature's laws rather than trying to fight them.

Prabhupāda: That you are not working. That is.... That is your.... That is...

Carol Jarvis: But I'm not unhappy.

Prabhupāda: That's all.... You are not happy.

Carol Jarvis: No, I'm not unhappy. I'm perfectly happy.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. He is asking very simple thing which everyone can offer. Just like a little leaf, patram, a little flower, puṣpam, a little fruit, and little liquid, either water or ghee, er, milk. So we offer that. We make different varieties with these ingredients, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), and after Kṛṣṇa's eating, we take it. We are servant; we take the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. We are neither vegetarian nor nonvegetarian. We are prasād-ian. We don't care for vegetable or not vegetable, because either you kill a cow or kill a vegetable, the sinful action is there. And according to nature's law, it is said that "The animals which has no hand, that is the food for the animals with hands." We are also animals with hands. We human being, we are also animal with hands, and they are animals—no hand but four legs. And there are animals which has no leg, that is vegetable. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. These animals which has no leg, they are food for the animals with four leg.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, point is that every living being has to eat another living being. That is the law of nature.

Guest (2): Right.

Prabhupāda: Jivo jīvasya jīvanam. That we admit. But in the human form of life if one thinks—now they are eating—that "Another living being is my food, so I kill my own child and eat," so you mean to say to apply the same law, that "A living entity is food for another living entity. Therefore a human being kill his own child and eat?"

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That will make them failure. Tell them, then this will make them failure. "If you are so foolish that you want to go above nature, then you are fool number one." Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is not possible. That is not possible. Then you are following wrong path. If you are imagining like that, that "We have surpassed the laws of nature," then you are fool number one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that respect they are like the Americans and Russians. They think that we can overcome the laws of nature.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are just like the Americans and Russians in the same way. They are thinking we can overcome the stringent laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the foolishness. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). So long they will have this impression that they can overcome the laws of nature they will continue to become mūḍha.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another problem...

Prabhupāda: In which way you have surpassed nature? First of all, if you are thinking like that, in which way you have surpassed the nature?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then we shall see that you have surpassed the laws of.... The laws of nature is there must be water. Nature is supplying. And you are trying to imitate. But if you say that "We can overpass the nature's law," then you produce without water. Then you'll be able. Then we shall see that you have gone above.... This, you are following the nature's. That is not surpassed. That is following little properly. Now you have arranged for water. That's very good. But if nature pours water, then you save so much labor. Do you know that, how nature will supply water profusely? You haven't got to make artificial arrangement for water. Do you know that? Ask them. We know that.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This philosophy, it is science. Without water you cannot produce. This is science. This is not imagination. So if you want to surpass nature, then you do practically. Why should you try to bring canal water or well water? Don't bring. You cannot surpass the laws of nature. That has to be accepted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their main point is that they want to manipulate expertly the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: That means let them waste their time. Therefore it requires many births to understand this law. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then don't try. Don't waste time. Don't try. Better try in your country. You have got enough field, and they are intelligent and they are favorable. So why should we waste our time? There is no need. If you make your country, America, God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious—they are already—that will be example to the whole world. These men, rascals' program, will be failure, finished, this, today or tomorrow. They'll never be successful. It is not.... That is not possible. If they have so foolishly declared that "We are going above the laws of nature," they're first-class rascals. Which is impossible. What they have conquered over the nature? These rascals will not die?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then? Then what is this? The rascals will not become old men? So what they have surpassed, laws of nature? What way? Simply making the teachers student and student teacher. Simply wasting time. Better you utilize your father's position, but for introducing our books to these high class men. Just you are trying to introduce books in the university libraries, similarly, you try to introduce these books to the high class. And that is not difficult. These men, they have got enough money. If they spend one thousand dollar for our books, that is nothing for them.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, they'll be.... Nature's law is so strong that they are also trying to knock their head in the wall. They will themselves break their head. The laws of nature is the same. If you try to break the walls from this side and if they try to break the walls from that side, both of them will lose their head. So if they are so foolish.... They are foolish. Everywhere such foolish men are there. They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, these laws of nature means the force of the Supreme. So if you want to defy, you may waste your time. It is not possible. And practically, Kṛṣṇa says, "Here I have enforced this miserable condition of material life." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu (BG 13.9). First of all surpass this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Then talk of surpassing the laws of nature. Can the Communists overcome, stopping old age? No Communist will be old man? Then what way you have surpassed the laws of nature? No Communist will die? Then where is your surpassing laws of nature? Ultimately you are under the grip of laws of nature. So what is the meaning of this foolish talking, that "I am going to surpass the laws of nature"? Show us first of all.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And he, what was.... One pot was there. He kicked that pot and broke. (laughter) It broke. "Oh, again I am poor man." So this is going on, imagination. Imagination.... "I shall become so great that I shall kick Kṛṣṇa's law," and whatever pot he had-broken. That's all. Rascals, simply rascals. If anyone thinks like that, that "I shall surpass the laws of nature," then he's madman. He's madman. So what is the use of dealing with madmen? And as soon as you challenge them that "Show us that you have surpassed the laws of nature," "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do." That's all. This is their reply. So it is better to avoid such men. But if you peacefully you can introduce, "All right, you will do. You are wonderful men, so kindly if you read some pages of this, it is not very costly. You can keep. At leisure hour you can read," in this way, imploring, then they will be benefited. That much we can do to any rascal. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt caitanya-candra-caraṇe: "Oh, you are so nice.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Try to read this book." Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate: "A rascal fool is very beautifully dressed, very nice sitting. But his rascaldom will be disclosed as soon as he will speak." So these rascals, as soon as they speak, "We shall surpass the laws of nature," then we can understand what kind of rascals. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkhaḥ. By their, these words we can take, "Oh, rascaldom," at once. "I shall break the wall. I shall push the mountain with my head." It is like that. If somebody is thinking that "I shall push the Himalayan mountains by knocking with my head," then we can understand. So where it is? A rascal, the innocent, he is also rascal. But innocent is eager to become intelligent, so there we shall deal. And the stubborn atheists, they are dviṣat. They cannot be corrected immediately, unless they become ruined. (break) ...their standard of life. Try for that. Concentrate in your country.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that you suffer for me. No. I suffer for my. It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to jail," he'll not go. (break) ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.

Hari-śauri: The Americans are expert at building highways.

Prabhupāda: They have got money and all these.... They want to do it (laughs) (unclear) money.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Discuss amongst yourselves. This is the point. We have got a short duration of life, and we declare independence of the laws of nature, laws of God, and do whatever we like, and as a result of our activities, we are obliged to accept a body which is not desirable. Then where is my independence? Why do they think they are independent and act independently? Is it not foolishness? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: That's described in the third chapter: ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished. You cannot do anything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So material life means imitation. Everyone is struggling to become God. Even when one is so-called liberated, self-realized, just like the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also writing "Self, my own self," but "I am independent." That is the material disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He's always thinking that "I am independent," which he's not. He's completely under the laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), but he's thinking "I'm independent." That is foolishness. They'll not accept knowledge given by God; they'll manufacture knowledge. That is material disease. And that knowledge is also uncertain. One stalwart man of knowledge is speaking, "I think, I believe," and another stalwart is saying, "No, no, I think, I believe." What is the meaning of this "I think, I believe"? We say "You are all rascals. Whatever you believe, whatever you think, they are all rascaldom."

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By nature's law it is changing every second in such swift way that we cannot understand.

Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying?

Prabhupāda: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think "The body is finished; therefore he's dead." Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Find out the verse.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "The mammonist philosophy, 'Work very hard and enjoy sense gratification,' is condemned herein by the Lord. Therefore for those who want to enjoy this material world, the above-mentioned cycle of performing yajñas is absolutely necessary. One who does not follow such regulations is living a very risky life, being condemned more and more. By nature's law, this human form of life is specifically meant for self-realization, in either of the three ways-namely karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, or bhakti-yoga. There is no necessity of rigidly following the performances of the prescribed yajñas for the transcendentalists who are above vice and virtue; but those who are engaged in sense gratification require purification by the above-mentioned cycle of yajña performances. There are different kinds of activities. Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious are certainly engaged in sensory consciousness; therefore they need to execute pious work. The yajña system is planned in such a way that sensory conscious persons may satisfy their desires without becoming entangled in the reaction of sense-gratificatory work. The prosperity of the world depends not on our own efforts but on the background arrangement of the Supreme Lord, directly carried out by the demigods. Therefore, the yajñas are directly aimed at the particular demigod mentioned in the Vedas. Indirectly, it is the practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because when one masters the performance of yajñas, one is sure to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But if by performing yajñas one does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, such principles are counted as only moral codes. One should not, therefore, limit his progress only to the point of moral codes, but should transcend them, to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Next.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Go on reading?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Here, in this world, everything has got six changes. Birth, then stay, and then develop, then by-products, then dwindle, then finish. Everything. So the motorcar civilization, it was born. And now the time has come it is dwindling, and it will be finished. Just like railway; railway no more interested, anybody. But when it was invented, it was very important. Now it is useless. That is the nature of everything here in this material world. It cannot be permanent benefit. That they do not know. They become very enthusiastic when some new thing is born. Child is born, I am very happy. The same child, when he's dead, I am unhappy. But one must know: what is born, it will die. So everything material has got a period of development, then it dwindles, and then finishes. So from this nature's law, we can see this motorcar attraction, utility, it will finish. It will not stay.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.

Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So we have to come to that point, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is nature's way, pulling by the ear: "Come here, do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This will go on as long as you are not agreeing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no infringement by māyā. (break) (Bengali) You understand Bengali? So the process is going on by the laws of nature to give us different types of trouble. The main trouble is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). It will go on unless we surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Better surrender in this life and be perfect; then things are all right. And what is the benefit of our so-called independence? If we declare that we are independent of the laws of nature, is it possible? Is it possible?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called māyā. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body, working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own business, and next life by the laws of nature, if you get the body of a dog, then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer? Hmm?

Kulādri: Simple living, high thinking.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement. When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are, business is the same—animal killing and eating. But we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant. Because you cannot give life to anyone. It is nature's law, God's law. So infringement on the laws of nature or God, it is sinful activities.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport. "The demoniac accept that the enjoyment of the senses is the ultimate goal of life, and this concept they maintain until death. They do not believe in life after death, and they do not believe that one takes on different types of bodies according to one's karma, or activities in this world. Their plans for life are never finished, and they go on preparing plan after plan, all of which are never finished. We have personal experience of a person of such demoniac mentality, who, even at the point of death, was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in the Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree; the one is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith; therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequences."

Prabhupāda: Now discuss any points.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal. That is criminal, he is to be punished. Unlawful detention. But they do not know the laws of nature, how it is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The law of nature is working very silently, subtle. But they do not know. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27).

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascal is so fool that he thinks that "I can do everything, whatever I like." Similarly, killing of animal. "Life is eternal," one can argue, "then what is wrong? Even I kill, the soul is alive." No, the same argument that this soul was to live in a particular type of body under the laws of nature, and you have checked, and he has to take again a similar body to fulfill the duration. Therefore you have done criminality. I have got lease for live in this room for certain period. If prior to the expiry of the lease, if the landlord drives me away, that is illegal. He will be punished.

Rūpānuga: That is like abortion.

Prabhupāda: Everything is on that principle, that you (are) violating the laws of nature, therefore you are criminal, you have to be punished. You cannot do it. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree. And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher. Why varieties of life? What is the scientific explanation?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: This slide shows..., these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this. Number one, these are very..., these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together. Now the scientists customarily make the assertion that laws like this are universal, but one thing we can notice is they have no proof of that. These laws which they say are universal are only studied in certain limited experimental situations with inanimate matter, and then they extrapolate and they say that they apply to everything. But actually the equations are so hard to solve even for reasonably simple molecules that they can't actually test out their assertion. So it's actually just a bluffing statement. So in this slide we wanted to point out how limited these laws are, how limited their concept of the laws of nature is. The next slide, according to the scientist's idea, there are two things going on—these laws and also chance. So this is a calculation showing what happens if you just have chance acting to form one of these proteins that Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about, and you can calculate... Actually here you calculate, suppose you threw a protein together at chance—and here we even allow a ten percent error, you're allowing to get it wrong among ten percent of the proteins—but still chance comes out to ten minus two-hundred-and forty-fourth-power. Now the scientists are always saying if you wait for a long enough time, even something very unlikely can happen; but here we have a calculation of how long you'd have to wait, according to mathematics and the probability theory, and even if you assume an unrealistically high rate of forming proteins at random, still you'd have to wait, according to this, ten to the hundred-and-sixty-seventh-power billion years. And that's a little bit too long. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is mathematics.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.

Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Not hills. Anyway, small or big, they gather together and then goes away, finished by the laws of nature. Washington, he gave you independence, but where he is? What he is doing? Where is that person who gave you independence?

Vipina: Would you like to walk this way today, Prabhupāda?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a basic difference between the earthworm and the man.

Prabhupāda: No difference. It is also living entity, you are also living entity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But difference in the sense that the earthworm is, actually, it is not trying to violate the laws of nature. Just follows.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's called durācara, misbehavior. So atonement, according to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, is not simply repenting and saying, "Oh, I'm sorry." But becoming intelligent. Atonement means coming to the platform of real intelligence. That intelligence, "Why I am becoming implicated in this material world, in so many ways which will simply produce more and more suffering for myself?" Just like if he steals, he knows he goes to prison, so he knows it beforehand, he's not ignorant of the fact. In this instance, one.... He knows that if he steals, he goes to prison. So in the same way we should become intelligent and should understand the laws of nature, the laws of God. That's athāto brahma jijñāsā. Inquiry what is the real nature, what is the real nature of Brahman, how Brahman has manifested this material world and how it's going on. Then become intelligent, act for your own self-interest, become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Devotee: It is explained that the intelligence is the next door neighbor of the soul, can you explain exactly what that means, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: So what is his question?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Every, always happening. Nature's law is going on.

Sadāpūta: Yes. So what I was wondering, is like earth still being manifested in living bodies from sound and so on, like the chemists...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The process is going on. I've described. That is going on.

Rūpānuga: So the spirit soul is in the seed, and the seed interacts with the other chemicals to make growth. So if the chemicals are not there in the earth, then that seed cannot make those chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, chemical is there in the earth. According to the seed it is exacted. Just like a chemist will analyze or they separate the ingredient, so much this percentage, so much that percentage, so much that. Everything is there. Similarly within the earth, everything is there. The seed is the instrument and the living entity is the exactor—what is that? Exactor?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. This human form of life is given to us by laws of nature to understand what is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, what is this material world, why you have come here, these things we have to know in this human form of life, and, if we like, we can know also. But instead of knowing these different phases of life, if we simply take care of this body like the animals, then we miss the opportunity. The animal is concerned to take the care of the body, that's all. If we simply remain taking care of this body, then we are animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Saying that we're governed by the laws of nature, since we are a biological creature like the rest... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: So you should not remain under the laws of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult.

Bill Sauer: In one of the cover letters that went out to some of the people in the American Institute of the Aeronautics and Astronautics, I referred to mankind as a biological phenomenon to solve one of nature's big problems. And a man wrote back, "Anyone who calls man a biological phenomenon shouldn't try and talk to me." So I don't know what he thinks we are, but...

Prabhupāda: Biological phenomenon...

Bill Sauer: It is nature, it is governed by the laws of nature, exactly.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog. Then what is the benefit?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer. So similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is a spiritual movement, and at the present moment people are more interested with material improvement, but our real interest is... Not only our, every human being's interest should be for spiritual upliftment. Just like our body is there, and within the body I am the spirit soul, also I am there. So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not science. If the some of them are similar, then everything must be similar. That is nature's law. Hmm? What the scientists say?

Hari-śauri: There was one report. They said there may be some bacteria there. They thought there was a possibility of bacteria.

Mādhava: They did not see anything grow. In the winter everything dies, everything becomes brown, and in the spring everything becomes green. In these other planets they don't see anything like that, changes.

Prabhupāda: Their seeing is not perfect. Now it is up to you scientists to answer all these. What is this picture?

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Materialist always thinks that they will try to overcome the laws of nature, and when the laws of nature catch over...

Prabhupāda: Śudhyeta satya (?) Sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer for the sinful activities of his disciples. (break) ...this suffering is short cut. For the karmīs it would have been a huge suffering but devotee is (indistinct).

Devotee (2): So then if he is sincere, then he should not be so sick in due time, his health should be good if he's practicing. If a devotee is practicing principles, then he should become healthy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, you cannot avoid sickness.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education. Therefore it is not a sentimental so-called religious movement, it is a scientific movement of real education. To solve the problems of life.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step, still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But gradually, they say, we will learn to control nature.

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "The teachings that I am giving, if one is not faithful to accept it, the result will be aprāpya mām, he'll never get Me, and he'll remain in the cycle of birth and death." They do not know it, what is cycle of birth and death, how one can get out of it. Going on. Just like the flies with great force falls in the fire. They are very busy. What is their busy-ness? Falling in the fire. So this is going on. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to save the people who go down by the force, enforced by the laws of material nature in the cycle of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "You have to accept another body." But suppose you have got now Indian body; next birth if you get a dog's body, then what is your success? But nature will work. You do not know what is the nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Neither you can check nature's law, so what is the value of your so-called activities, jumping? There's no value.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. A fool man's, fool's belief is different from a learned man's understanding. So if he says that "I believe in it," nature's law is different. Nature will not care whether you believe or not believe. It will work. Just like if you have infected some disease, so you are getting fever. Now if I say "My dear Mr. such and such, now you infected smallpox. Therefore symptoms are there." And if you say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." So will you be protected from the laws of nature? So this is rascal's proposal, "I believe," "I don't believe." You believe or not believe, who cares for you? If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it."

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it." You believe or not believe, you cannot check the nature's law. But their dull brain cannot understand it that nature's law is very, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), but thinking that they'll conquer over nature. That is their proposal, is not, Bali-mardana? They think that they'll conquer over the laws of nature.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Live that way. And Kṛṣṇa is providing so much facilities for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good, greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattaḥ. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Is it Fifth Canto?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If he's qualified, if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead, then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, he gets another material body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And according to his desire and karma, activities, the nature, laws of nature, gives him a body. Just like a man infects some disease and he develops that disease. Is it difficult to understand?

Mike Robinson: It's very difficult to understand all of it. Perhaps we can...

Prabhupāda: Now suppose somebody has infected some smallpox disease. After seven days it develops. What is that called, that period?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Ah, incubation, no, another technical, yes, that after some time, the disease comes. There is a technical name. Anyway, so you cannot avoid it. If you have infected some disease, it will develop by nature's law. It is not possible to avoid it. Similarly, during our this life, we are in association with different modes of material nature, and that will decide what kind of body we are going to get next life. That is strictly under the laws of nature. Everything is under the laws of nature. You have no control over it; you are completely dependent, but people, on account of dull brain, they think that they are free. They are not free. They are imagining they are free. They're completely under the laws of nature. So this next birth will be decided according to my activities this life, sinful or pious, like that.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of which religion, it is a question of science, that what is your position. You are a spiritual being, you are under the laws of nature. So you may believe.... Just like you may believe in Christian religion, I may believe in Hindu religion, but it does not mean that a Christian child is not going to become a boy. We are talking of the science, that the child become a boy. This is natural law. It is not that because you are Christian you are becoming a boy, or because I am Hindu I am becoming.... Everyone becomes a boy. So similarly, the laws of nature is applicable to everyone. You believe this religion or that religion, it doesn't matter.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Provided you believe in that one God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One God, one God's law, nature's law, and we are all under that nature's law, under the control of the Supreme. So if we think that we are free, we can do independently, that is our foolishness.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you explain to me then what difference it makes being a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means one who is serious to understand this science-he's member of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. There's no question of he belongs to some group, anyone, student. Just like in a college, students can be admitted. He may be a Christian, he may be a Hindu, he may be Muhammadan, it doesn't matter. It is a science to understand.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is religion. This is religion. So this religion is applicable to everyone, any human being. Why do you bring Christian or Hindu or Muslim, or...? Everyone has to accept that. That is real religion. And this is not religion, "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not religion. That is most unscientific. That is not religion. Religion means scientific understanding of the supreme controller. So now if you accept the supreme controller, then if you violate something, you must be punished. Immediately you have to accept. As soon as you accept there is supreme controller, so immediately as you violate the laws of the supreme controller, immediately you are punished. That is nature's law.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Within thirty-six years there were two big wars, slaughter. Especially Europe. Nature will create. Pestilence. Somewhere there is pestilence, somewhere there is war, somewhere there is scarcity of food. But you cannot indulge in sinful activities. Then you'll be killed. Then nature's law will act. You may defy, that's your business, but nature will act in her own way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. That is not possible. But they are foolish, they are trying to conquer over nature by their so-called scientific knowledge. They are such a rascal. You change the color of this fruit and flower, conquer over nature. So rascal, they talk rascal, "It will take millions of years." We have to wait million. "Yes, from chemical we shall bring life. Wait million of years."

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That's all. That study will be nice. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ. Just like father gives the seed, similarly, Kṛṣṇa gives the seed. The seed, when pushed into the womb of the mother and properly nourished, a rose plant comes out. This plant comes out. The seed is there. It is very easy. The father injects the seed within the womb of the mother, and the childs come out. Similarly, whatever is coming out from the earth, the seed-giving father is Kṛṣṇa, and when the seed is pushed within the womb of the mother, then the plant is coming, and everything. This nature's law is going on. Where is the necessity of understanding more than this? We understand the mother is pregnant. Now how she has been, how the child is growing, that is not under your control. It is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), immediately it is in hand of the nature.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That is nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is... So therefore there is no use of so-called improvement. And you cannot do it. This is a fact. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Find out this verse. Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary. Your standard of happiness and distress must be there because you are destined by the laws of nature. You have to suffer although you are born in America. In New York you can get very comfortable life there; still, you have lie down on the bench, lie down. Although you are born of a rich man's family, you have to become hippies, lie down here. Who can check this? What is that law. Do they know it? But there is a law. There will be a first class, second class, third class, fourth class. You cannot check it. Huh? New York City? So cared for? Nasty road, streets. And always, every moment-dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung, gu gu gu gu gu gu gu-fire. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Fire is blazing.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: And the leaders will say, "Stop this nonsense, come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness," nobody will care. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is called blind leader leading blind followers. They do not know that both of them are bound up by the strict, stringent laws of nature. (break) ...how the laws of nature is working. They are completely in ignorance. They do not know. This is modern civilization. The laws of nature must work in its own way. You care for it or do not care for it, that is your business, but the laws of nature will work. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But these rascals, they do not know how the laws of nature will work. They are endeavoring artificially for, foolishly, to overcome the laws of nature. This is science, rascal's science, which is impossible, but they are trying. This is called rascaldom. Stupidity. Do the scientists not say like that?

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: No, it's just like you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's given by the Supreme Lord.

Prabhupāda: Apart from Supreme Lord, it is a law of nature.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: It is logical, it is factual.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the law of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. The law, nature's law is acting like that. How you can avoid the laws of nature? If some young man says, "No, no, I'll not become old man," will the law of nature excuse him? Because you does not like? You have to become old man.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the law of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. The law, nature's law is acting like that. How you can avoid the laws of nature? If some young man says, "No, no, I'll not become old man," will the law of nature excuse him? Because you does not like? You have to become old man.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

The law of nature is working so strongly, but this rascal is proud of his own belief. This is foolishness, mūḍha.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But we do not deprecate. We simply say that do whatever you like, but do not forget your real business, self-realization, ātma-tattvam. Self-realization, that is required. And if we live like cats and dogs and again become cats and dogs and pigs, that is not success. But there is chance if one does not know ātma-tattva. Nature's law will work. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Hare Kṛṣṇa. So, your son is sleeping?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Not instantly. I mean to say you have changed your body. Similarly, after giving up this body, you'll change to another body. That's a fact.

Ali: And between those gaps, we are sleeping.

Prabhupāda: There is no gap. The nature's law... It is said that just like you are walking, step by step, like this, so when you fix up this step, then you take away this step.

Hari-śauri: Example of a caterpillar, how it moves from one leaf to another.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, when you by nature's law when it is fixed up, you have to accept this body, then you give up this body, and immediately enter into the womb of the mother to prepare another similar body like the mother.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance. There is no school, no college, no institution to give instructions about this science. This is the position of modern civilization. People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru. Nobody is giving.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru. Nobody is giving. Therefore śāstra says you should not become a guru, you should not become a father, you should not become a king unless you are able to save him from these laws of nature, repetition of birth and death. Then you should not become. It's the duty of the guardians to give education to the dependents about the spiritual knowledge. But who is doing that? We are trying our bit because we are ordered by superior that "You do it." So we are trying as far as possible, that's all.

Ali: Is there a time limit for this spiritual growth?

Prabhupāda: No, in a moment you can be spiritually enlightened. So why don't you agree?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Eternally is going on, but the process is here. Eternally this man is born, that does not mean you were not born by your father. You deny your father, eternally born. You must have particular knowledge. Don't talk like that. Eternally, eternally father gives birth, that's a fact. But there must be father. Eternally father is giving birth to a child, that's a fact. Eternally birth is going on, that does not mean denying the father. The father is the cause. Anything law, that is going on eternally, there is no question of... Nature's law is going on eternally. That is a fact.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So long one does not inquire about his spiritual position, he'll have to accept this material body and suffer. This is the law of nature. So therefore our business is how to stop accepting this material body. That is the, our... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. How to stop accepting this material body. So that is bhakti. Karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll have to accept material body. Maybe better body you may have. But better or bad, worse, whatever body you accept, you have to suffer.

Nandarāṇī: This saṅkalpa-vikalpa is there as long as we have our independence, though. Even as devotees, that accepting and rejecting? That is there even in devotees.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). Simply our false ahaṅkāra, egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakṛti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law. Uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Uru means very hard, tight. Or uru means the thigh. And dāmni (means) by ropes, baddha. We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Why you have got different bodies?

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply one who does this. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68). What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all nonsense. Surrender to Me." This is paramaṁ guhyam. And they are simply manufacturing nonsense. So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict. We may defy it, "There is no God, there is no next birth, there is no nothing." We may say like that, but when death will come, you cannot say anything. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Bas, all your talkings, all your intelligence taken away. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Immediately transferred to another body. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). "No, no, I am Prime Minister!" "No, you must become a dog." Immediately. How can you protest?

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So nature's law is there, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are not independent. We are dependent under the laws of material nature. So we should properly utilize this human form of life, and government or king means to guide the citizens how to make progress of life. That is the duty of the government. They should be given all chances to make progress. Formerly, all the kings were responsible for the progress of the citizens, progress of life. The same principle should be followed. That is the statement of the śāstra. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. To maintain the body, just like we require the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs, similarly, we must maintain the brain of the society, the brāhmaṇa; and the arms of the society, kṣatriyas; and the belly of the society, the vaiśyas; and the legs of the society, the śūdra. Everything is required. Not that simply brain is required and leg is not required. No, everything is required under proper guidance for the total benefit of the society.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.

Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Because they are in darkness, all rascals, mūḍha. Nābhijānāti. They do not know anything. And they're puffed up by their false education, false knowledge. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. "Huh! I have no engagement." Vimūḍhātmā. Kartāham iti manyate. They do not know how nature's law is working. Do they not know?

Indian man: Since millions of years we are having the births and re-births, both animals and human life and all that. Cycle is going on. So what is the end for this cycle, in the end.

Prabhupāda: In the end I have already explained. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Indian man: Mr. Rao Swami, officer from railway state office. He's from Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You are Bengali? (Where is your home?) Kothāya bāḍi āpnāra? Howalajela (?)(Bengali)

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is our duty, provided you want to learn it. But practically they are not interested. That is the pity of the situation. They... Nature's law is there, but they do not care for the nature's law. They are so irresponsible.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Everything is being done by nature's law, and we are strictly under nature's law. Still, we are thinking independent.

Indian man (1): Nature's laws are inexorable.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (1): Nature's laws are inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot surpass. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This nature's law is so strict, you cannot disobey.

Indian man (1): We can't bend it. It is un... inevitable, inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes, inexorable. Yes, yes, inexorable.

Indian man (1): And nobody can interfere?

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (1): God alone.

Prabhupāda: God can do anything. He is all-powerful. That is only...

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. God interferes if you are a devotee. Otherwise, you have to undergo the laws of nature. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Karma, according to your karma, you are conducted by the laws of nature. Just like if you touch fire, the laws of nature is: it will burn. Even a child touches the fire, there is no excuse. The laws of nature will not excuse a child, that "This child does not know it has touched the fire. Let it not be burned." No. Ignorance is no excuse. You cannot surpass or avoid laws of nature. It is not possible. If you can eat one chātā,(?) and if you eat little more, then there will be trouble.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Nobody can play anything. Magician also can make.

Indian man (1): Interfere with the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can. It is all foolishness, all rascaldom. They are all rascals and who understands miracle, they are also rascals. Laws of nature cannot be changed.

Indian man (1): There may be several laws which we don't know.

Prabhupāda: There are many laws. What do you know? You do not know anything. (chuckles)

Indian man (1): We do not know. Then I say those miracles may be possible according to those laws that we don't know.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We should stop all rascal plan and should take the plan given by God. Then it will be... Everything will be all right. Simple solution. The God's plan is there in this book. Let us take it. Then everything solved. But "No, we are scientist. We are philosopher. We are big man, politician. We shall make our own." Do and suffer. God has given freedom: "All right." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā after explaining Arjuna everything, then He asked, "What you have decided? Your plan or My plan?" So Kṛṣṇa said, "I am giving you freedom. Whatever you like, you can do." The plan is there. Now it is up to us to accept it or reject it. If you reject, you suffer. If you accept, you become happy. So we are requesting people, "Accept it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "Then you'll be happy." But who cares for us? He is making his own plan. Therefore he must suffer. Nature's law he cannot avoid. That's not possible. Nature's law, there is... (break) ...if God likes, immediately there will be rain. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ. That is also stated. So read that. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, annād.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well, in your country there is some adjustment because it is very big country and you are all intelligent people. In other countries they... But even though you have got resources, if you not properly utilize it, then the bad time is coming. You should expect. If your energy is all engaged in manufacturing tires and wheels, then who will go to the... Actually I have seen in your country. Now the farmers' son, they do not like to remain in the farm. They go in the city. I have seen it. The farmers' son, they do not like to take up the profession of his father. So gradually farming will be reduced, and the city residents, they are satisfied if they can eat meat. And the farmer means keeping the, raising the cattle and killing them, send to the city, and they will think that "We are eating. What is the use of going to..." But these rascals have no brain that "If there is no food grain or grass, how these cattle will be...?" Actually it is happening. They are eating swiftly. "The cattle will die. Before they die, let us kill and eat." Actually it is happening. In Italy they killed because the problem is twenty thousand cows. This is going on. They do not care that killing is sinful because they don't care for God. This is going on. And sinful, sinful, sinful, everyone will be punished. The nature's law will act.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: People applauded. This is foolishness. They do not know how to act. Just like if you pour water on the tree, then it is accepted that you are pouring water on the tree but that is not the process. The process is to pour water on the root of the tree. Practically we... You can make an experiment. Just like here is a tree. You don't pour water on the root but pour water on the leaves. Then it will dry in due course of time. It will not be effective. But if you pour water on the root, the water will go everywhere. So the whole thing is just like a tree. God is the origin of everything. He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Therefore He is the root. So if you pour water in the root, then the water is distributed everywhere. But if you pour water on the leaves, on the twigs, on the fruits, it will take time and it will not be successful. So one who is not in awareness of the laws of nature, they commit this mistake.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be (indistinct), you cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Jagadīśa: They are answering rains. (?)

Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot do it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are... You can close this door. (break) ...population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. (break)

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation. (long pause)

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not know what is the aim of life. The aim of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are trying to adjust things by material arrangement. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā. This hope will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This material energy is the external energy of the Lord. So they are enamored by the external energy; they have no information of the internal energy. Svarūpa-śakti. Just like every one of us in the conditioned state, we are busy with this body, the external energy. And the internal energy, the soul, is there. We have no information. Although we practically daily see that as soon as the internal energy is off, it is nothing but as good as the stone. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are giving importance to the external energy. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And they are being encouraged by the so-called leaders to give stress on this external energy. Although they are tightly tied with the laws of nature. The laws of nature will finish this body. But still they are attached to this body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. I had been to that Gandhi's place.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And because they are fortunate, wherever they go, they get money.

Guest (1): That is law of nature. All the big rivers go to the sea where water is not wanted.

Prabhupāda: I have seen them. They squander so much money, and I chastise them that "You are so loose, you are so rascal and..." But still, whatever money I have got, it is due to them.

Guest (1): That's true, that's true. (laughter) That's true. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise... (laughing)

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to mix with this rascal class of men. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Not that I hold a meeting and some rascals give me clapping, (claps hands) I become... Don't be after this. Try to understand the reality. But we, we become political leader, and if one thousand or one lakh of people give me a few claps I think I become perfect. What you are perfect? The next moment by the laws of nature you'll be slapped and taken away. Who could save Gandhi when he was fired by the laws by the nature? That clapping would not save me. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). When Kṛṣṇa will come and put you death, what you will do? With you clapping and your bank balance. You'll be taken away. Then?

Page Title:Laws of nature (Conversations 1976)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:11 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=115, Let=0
No. of Quotes:115