Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra. "Ah, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I can do without."
Dr. Patel: Once a man is free of ahaṅkāra, then he is...
Prabhupāda: No, ahaṅkāra there will be, but ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, thinking falsely something, that "I am this body." Therefore he's vimūḍha. They are animal. Ahaṅkāra is there, "I am Brahman, spirit soul." But he is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am dog," "I am cat." Vimūḍhātmā. And this first principle of knowledge they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). (break) Man-manā. That is the only way.
Dr. Patel: That is ananya-bhakti.
Dr. Patel: Parā-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "To become My devotee means you shall think of Me twenty-four hours," man-manā. Then you become a bhakta. Not that meditation—I meditate fifteen minutes and twenty-four hours thinking of something else.
Dr. Patel: Then you never, I mean, even for, it is just like you, even for a moment you slip down, just like a (indistinct). It should be perpetual conscious within yourself.
Prabhupāda: I have seen Gandhi's prayer meeting, and I attended. Utmost, five minutes reading Bhagavad-gītā, then again politics immediately. Immediately politics. I was in Delhi. I attended the meeting when Nawa Khalia (Noakhali?) fast. So this was his prayer. I have seen. And as a result of this, in that prayer meeting he was killed. (Hindi) So nature punishment are there. (Hindi) The last stage of Kali-yuga means you die.
Dr. Patel: But the way the modern civilized nations are exploiting the resources of the world, another fifty years there will be no resources left, and civilization automatically will die out.
Prabhupāda: Wars. The occasional war, pestilence, famine, that's all.
Dr. Patel: Even there is no war, sir, or no pestilence, the population...
Prabhupāda: There will be war. Because you are dissatisfied, I am dissatisfied, on some little provocation we fight. Nobody is happy. I have seen in Allahabad. Little provocation, two brothers fought so much, one brother was killed immediately. Then, when he was ordered to be hanged, his father appealed that "I am the father. One son I have already lost. If he is hanged, then my.... You hang me, my good man(?)." Then he excused him and he actually was.... Upon the father's appeal. I have seen it.