Prabhupāda: So people who do not know that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not ordinary thing, just like human being or young girls or young boys... No. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs. 5.37). They are display of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Cinmaya-rasa. Not jara-rasa (?). Here everything is jara-rasa. So when rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with girls, they think in comparison to this jara-rasa. But they do not know that this is not jara-rasa. This is ānanda-cinamaya-rasa. That they do not know. Therefore they characterize Kṛṣṇa differently. They question that "Why Kṛṣṇa danced with the gopīs?" The rascals, they do not know that gopīs are not these ordinary girls. They are cinmaya-rasa. Ahlādinī śakti, expansion of ahlādinī śakti. They should think that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman. Supreme Brahman, for realizing brahma-sukham, one gives up all material happiness. Tyāgena. And the Supreme Brahman is enjoying material happiness? No. They do not know. Therefore it is prohibited that ordinary man should not try to understand radha kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir. Because they'll commit offense. They do not know. Therefore Narottama, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,
- rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti
- kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala-pīriti
He's hankering. He's looking for days when he will be able to understand what is rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya vikṛtir. And these ordinary men, they're immediately..., as if, as if they have become more than Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā... No, you should be very much careful. This Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā can be understood by the paramahaṁsa, liberated soul. We should simply worship... Now we are worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. It is not directly Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa; it is Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa sevā. It is not directly... It is not possible... For conditioned soul, there is no possibility of worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. But we worship through Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore we keep Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu along with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. By the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we may be able to understand Rādhā Kṛṣṇa līlā some day in our life. Rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir ahlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau, śrī-caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad dvayaṁ caikyam āptam.
So through Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we can be, I mean to say, able, we may be able some day to understand what is Rādhā Kṛṣṇa. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇāyāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnata ujjvala rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam, hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti... What is that verse? I forget now. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by the grace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we should try to understand, we should try to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa through Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, through the Gosvāmīs. Don't try to... The sahajiyā... Then you'll be sahajiyā—smoking bidi and doing all nonsense and singing Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā on the street and here, there. Going through hell. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa līlā is not so cheap. Therefore they are called sahajiyā. They have made it cheap. If they want to read Bhāgavatam—immediately rasa-līlā. If they want to hear something about Kṛṣṇa—immediately rasa-līlā. Because it appears similar, just like young boy, young girls. But it is not that. It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37), Rādhārāṇī's expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. And the gopīs are expansion of Rādhārāṇī's body. They are not ordinary things. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "This evidence from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives assurance to the pure devotee of being elevated to association with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī remarks in this connection that one who is actually attracted by the beauty of the lotus feet of Śrī Kṛṣṇa or His service and whose heart, by such attraction, is always full with transcendental bliss will naturally never aspire after the liberation which is so valuable to the impersonalists."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberation, a devotee never... Why liberation? Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he says... Liberation means kaivalya. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. What is this liberation? It is as good as the hell. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Tri-daṣa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). The persons, they are hankering after being elevated to the heavenly planet. So for a devotee, this is will o' the wisp, phantasmagoria, it has no value. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tri-daśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpayate indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. And the yogis... Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. Karmīs are after heavenly planet; jñānīs are after kaivalya, liberation; yogis are after controlling the senses. So senses are very dangerous. Everyone knows. Our senses are very strong. Therefore the yoga system is recommended for them who are very much in bodily concept of life. Therefore they are advised to exercise the body to come to the point of spiritual platform. But those who are above bodily concept of life, those senses have been purified.
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
Those who are actually engaged in pure devotion, their senses are purified. Without purified senses, you cannot approach. With ordinary material senses, you cannot approach. Therefore we have to follow the regulative principles. Regulative principle and sinful activities. Otherwise, how we can approach Kṛṣṇa? Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. By the senses we commit so many sinful activities. Therefore sin, without being free from sinful activities, nobody can approach Kṛṣṇa. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is pavitraṁ paramam, the supreme purified. So how we can approach Kṛṣṇa without being purified? Therefore the four principle, regulative principles must be followed. Otherwise, there is no chance of advancing. There is no chance. They are relatively cooperatively helpful, chanting, but one must be willing that "I must be purified to approach Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he becomes sahajiyā. So "I am approaching Kṛṣṇa. I can smoke bidi. I can take marijuana. I can..." No. Must be purified. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "A similar passage is also there in Third Canto, Fifteenth Chapter, of the same book, wherein Uddhava addresses Lord Kṛṣṇa and says, 'My dear Lord, for persons who are engaged in Your transcendental loving service there is nothing worth obtaining from religiousness, economic development, sense gratification or liberation, although happiness from these different sources can be very easily had by them.' "
Prabhupāda: Therefore devotee's another name is niṣkiñcana, akiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Niṣkiñcana. He doesn't possess anything, don't want to possess anything material. These are all material things. What are those? Sense gratification, economic development, liberation. They are all different stages of material existence. And Kṛṣṇa is not for the persons who are hankering after material possessions. Kṛṣṇa is far away. Therefore in the Kuntī-stotra in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata it is said, niṣkiñcanasya gocarāḥ: "You, Kṛṣṇa, You are understood by persons who have become niṣkiñcana." Niṣkiñcana. So niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The qualification of devotion is to become a niṣkiñcana. Means one should not try to possess anything material. He should simply try to possess Kṛṣṇa. There must be some possession. The Māyāvādī philosophy, to dispossess material things, will not help him. He must possess something positive. Otherwise he'll fall down. That is our... Because we want something. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). So we simply, we try, that "Let me become sannyāsī, niṣkiñcana." That is not possible. You must take to the service of Kṛṣṇa. Then when you are fully satisfied that "I possess Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is within my heart," then you can give up all this nonsense, kick out: "I don't want." Otherwise not possible. So the two things: Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajano..., param paro jīveṣa (?). Those who have become ni..., what is this liberation for them? Nothing. The four things, dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa. So when one takes to this shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, that is the highest dharma, topmost. That is the topmost yoga. So why he should hanker after dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90)? It is so nice thing. That is the statement of Uddhava. One who has become pure devotee... One who has possessed... Svāntaḥ-sthita gadābhṛtā. He has become purified. But don't imitate. Actually see whether you are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right.
- niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya
- pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya
- viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca
- hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu
- (CC Madhya 11.8)
So we have to become niṣkiñcana. But niṣkiñcana we can become only when we possess Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not possible. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "In spite of such facilities, my dear Lord, I do not aspire to achieve any such results. My only prayer is that I may have unflinching faith and devotion unto Your lotus feet."
Prabhupāda: This is the only thing. If we have got unflinching faith and devotion to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then we can automatically become niṣkiñcana, liberated, developed in economic condition. That is not important thing for a devotee. They come automatically. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Kṛṣṇa says. Why he should try for economic development? Kṛṣṇa personally comes. "You want this. Take it." That is devotee. Why he should hankering after economic development? No. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches: na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). There is no need of hankering. Kṛṣṇa knows what he requires, "How My devotee will be satisfied." Kṛṣṇa knows... If Kṛṣṇa sees that this devotee has got little desire for some material enjoyment, Kṛṣṇa will give.
Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest to worship the Lord, for getting the kingdom of his father or better than that. So although when Dhruva Mahārāja saw the Lord he said svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yā..., "I, I don't want anything. I am now fully satisfied", still Kṛṣṇa gave him Dhruvaloka. Because he desired: "No, you enjoy. Then you come back again." So there is no need of asking any... Kṛṣṇa knows, as the father knows, the mother knows what is the need of my child; Therefore pure devotee never asks from Kṛṣṇa anything except His service. Mama janmani janamanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī. "Without any cause let me be engaged in Your service." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfection. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "A similar passage appears in the Third Canto, 25th Chapter, 31st verse, wherein Kapiladeva instructs His mother and says: 'My Dear Mother, devotees whose hearts are always filled in the service of My lotus feet, and who are prepared to do anything for my satisfaction, especially those who assemble together to understand My qualities, pastimes and form, and thus glorify Me congregationally and derive transcendental pleasure therefrom, such fortunate devotees never desire to become one with Me.' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on.
Bhavānanda: " 'And not to speak of becoming one with Me, if they are offered a post like Mine in My abode, or opulence like Mine, or even personal association with Me with similar bodily features, they refuse to accept because they are satisfied simply by being engaged in My devotional service.' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. All kinds of mukti, sarūpya-mukti, sa, sa... Sāyujya-mukti, no devotee desires, kicked out. There is no question of sāyujya-mukti. But other four kinds of muktis, sārūpya-mukti, sālokya-mukti, these muktis are desired by the inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭheśvara. Especially in South India, they worship the Vaiṣṇava, Veṅkateṣa. Veṅkateṣa means Vaikuṇṭheṣa, the Lord of Vaikuṇṭha. So the, the associates, the devotees of the Lord in Vaikuṇṭha, they desire sārūpya-mukti, to have similar feature of the body, four-handed. Viṣṇudūta. And sālokya, the same as Nārāyaṇa is living in Vaikuṇṭha, they also live in Vaikuṇṭha. This is also in the bhakti-mārga. But a, a higher advanced devotee, even he does not want all these things. Even... Wherever Kṛṣṇa puts him, that's all right. It doesn't matter. Yathā tathā vidadhātu lampato mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ. You can, whatever You like, can do. It doesn't matter. I don't want any exchange. I don't want to do business with You. That is pure devotee. Go on.