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Kidnap (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: He's free to act any way He likes. Otherwise what is the meaning... Means full-fledged manifestation of God. Lord Rāma, He married only one, Sītā. And when Sītā was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, He never married again. Or when Sītā was sent to the forest for public opinion, He never married again. He remained a sticked to, stuck to only one wife because He was setting example, moral principle, to the world. Kṛṣṇa married 16,108. Not religious. Religious, He married only eight wife. But these 16,100 girls were kidnapped by one demon, and they were concentrated in a camp. So they prayed to Kṛṣṇa to save them. Kṛṣṇa is kind to everyone. So Kṛṣṇa came to their rescue, and He killed that demon. He rescued all the girls. But the girls requested Kṛṣṇa that "Because we were kidnapped and we are concentrated under his custody, so if we go back to our father, it will be difficult for him to get us married to a suitable prince. So our request is that You marry us." (Prabhupāda laughs) Kṛṣṇa agreed, "All right." He married wholesale, 16,100. (laughter) And that can be possible.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "Thou shall not kidnap your neighbor's wife."

Journalist: Wife, covet.

Prabhupāda: So who is following this?

Journalist: No one. Very few.

Prabhupāda: You see? So how you can expect they're religious. And without religion, human society is animal society.

Journalist: All right, but let me ask you this. Along this line... Now I'm not asking you...

Prabhupāda: Take it. Take it.

Journalist: Thank you. I'm not asking you any of these questions facetiously. Please understand. What does your interpretation, or how does it differ in principle from the basic Jewish-Christian ethic of the Ten Commandments? How does it differ?

Prabhupāda: There is no difference.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Kṛṣṇa Book. Where is that...? This is second part. I say always that...

Śyāmasundara: Second part?

Prabhupāda: That is Volume Two. No, no. It is not in Volume Two.

Revatīnandana: It's in Volume One, when Brahmā kidnaps the cowherd boys. When I went to Paris, they had gotten all confused. Someone was thinking that Brahmā, Lord Brahmā is not a pure devotee, because...

Prabhupāda: In one sense, not. In one sense.

Revatīnandana: By his behavior sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, no, behavior... Because he is in the material world, he wants to lord it over. But a pure devotee has no such desire.

Haṁsadūta: But at the same time, he appeared as Ṭhākura Haridāsa in this world. So Brahmā, he appears as Ṭhākura Haridāsa with Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: But Brahmā, it does not mean Brahmā cannot be pure devotee.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ordinary duty. If you encroach upon my freedom, I have the right to kill you. That is recommended. That is clearly stated in the śāstras. If anyone sets fire in another's house, if anyone kidnaps his wife, if anyone takes his money—so many list—he is to be killed. There is no question. He can be killed immediately. That action-reaction is going on in the material world, that is a different thing. That is karma-bandha. But in devotion, there is no karma-bandha. As Kṛṣṇa is free from all reaction, similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee who wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only, he is also free from all reaction. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāva-manyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). "The ācārya is as good as I am," Kṛṣṇa says. Nāva-manyeta karhicit, "Never neglect him." Na martya-buddhyāsūyeta, "Never be envious of the ācārya, thinking him as anything of this material world." Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27). Therefore, ācārya's position is as good as Kṛṣṇa. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. Ācārya is always cautious that he may not be subject to criticism. But who criticizes ācārya, he becomes immediately offender. Because he is playing the part of ācārya, he plays as far as possible. But sometimes for preaching work, he might have to do something which is not consistent. But if he is criticized, then that man who criticizes, he becomes... Of course, he must be ācārya, not a bogus.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: And just like yesterday, Mahādeva's parents came here, his mother came here along with a Jesuit family priest, about sixty years old. And she accused us that we had come and kidnapped him out of the university. And we said, "Actually, we didn't kidnap him. He came to our temple and didn't want to go away," which is what happened. She said, "Well, that's because he took some LSD and he had a false religious experience." So then I asked the Jesuit priest, "If your religious experience is as pure as he had just been saying, then why was this boy, trained up in a Jesuit school, seeking after spiritual life from a false religious process? Why was he taking LSD in the first place if his religion was satisfactory?" And he couldn't answer it. He said, "Well, there seems to be some kind of a spiritual," what did he say, "a spiritual lack or a spiritual something at this time for some reason." But he would not define it that he was unable to fill that spiritual lack by his process. And yet, we have filled that lack, or our spiritual master has filled that lack for thousands of young people now, who are not only God conscious, but they're practicing it every minute of every day. And they're practicing it practically, in the city or in the community or in the farm or wherever they are. So it's not that we're contesting the origins. The origin from Christ may have been very pure, but its present manifestation appears to be lacking something. And the young people are seeing that.

Prabhupāda: Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer. (pause)

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do that in many hotels. They, it was in India done. The childcatcher? What is called?

Girirāja: Kidnapper.

Prabhupāda: Kidnappers. They kidnap and they slaughter, and mix with other meat. It becomes very tasteful. In hotel, one body found a finger of a child. In Kanpur.

Devotee: Some social scientists were saying that in twenty years cannibalism will be as acceptable among the society as illicit sex is now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will do that. Because people are degrading. They are not advancing.

Prajāpati: When we tell them to stop their sinful activities, they will say "What do you mean by sinful?"

Prabhupāda: Sinful means, generally, what is against the law of God. That is sinful. Just like what is criminal? Any action which is against the law of the state, that is criminal. Similarly, sinful means what is against the law of God. That is sinful. But you do not know what is God. You do not know what is the law of God. Therefore you do not know what is sin. That you have to learn from us. It is all due to ignorance. Now God says, "I am the father of all living entities." So this is quite reasonable. If there is God... So... And it is stated in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nehru's family is Mohammedan family, everything Mohammedans. Yes. You know?

Dr. Patel: And those men...

Prabhupāda: His daughter, his daughter was kidnapped by Mohammedans. Not kidnapped. She willingly went.

Yaśomatīnandana: Whose daughter?

Prabhupāda: This Motilal Nehru's. Jawaharlal's sister.

Dr. Patel: Who was ambassador in America. Vijaya Laksmi Gandhi. In America only, in states also, she was always keeping fully drunk and all... These are the type of people ruling over.

Prabhupāda: She was not coming back from that Mohammedan. Only Gandhi intermediated.

Dr. Patel: Mahatmaji played a fool with her. Being a bania he said that one wanted to, had to be a Muslim. So Mahatmaji said he would ask that man to become a Hindu. "If he becomes Hindu, I don't mind. You marry her." And that fellow, the Muslim, would not become Hindu. And then he ran off. That is how it happened.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhaumāsura, something like that. They all of them became Kṛṣṇa's wife. They prayed to Kṛṣṇa to be rescued from the hands of... Then Kṛṣṇa rescued them, killed that Bhaumāsura, and excused them, then they were set free. Then their plea that "We are set free, that's all right, but we cannot go home because we were kidnapped. So we shall not be married. Nobody will accept us." "Then what do you want?" "You become our husband." "All right." Kṛṣṇa becomes (indistinct). This is going on. Somebody is thinking of money, somebody is thinking of woman. These two things, money and woman, and whole struggle (indistinct). The Musselman nawabs, they used to keep... That one nawab, they have got his quarters in Lucknow, he had 160 wives. Even in recent, you know this (name withheld)? His elder brother, (name withheld), practically he is the origin of the (name withheld) concern. So I was a guest of the (indistinct). So he has got three wives—one Bengali wife, one (indistinct) wife, and his original wife being Jain. He had three, four wives. And each wife's establishment, ten thousand rupees per month. So he is earning money and he is spending it. Earning money by black market, this way, that way, and his whole day's business is that go to some wife's house, remain there for some hours, then next wife, remain there for some hours, and he thinks, "I am a king." Still he is living. He is of my age, old man. And each wife has got dozens of children. They're not his.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And, you do not know, they like to eat white men. (laughter) Yes. They kidnap or capture, some way or other, one white man, and they eat it very nicely.

Australian devotee 6: They say that the grandfather is very learned so they eat his brain so they can get his knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they say like that? Oh, just see. He eats the experience. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Śrutakīrti: You were saying about how, in the car, that one eats the cow, they say, because it is sāttvika.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Śrutakīrti: So the spiritual master, he is even more sāttvika so he should be eaten.

Prabhupāda: So eat the spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are these cannibalistic tribes, Amazons and whatever, are they classed as subhuman?

Prabhupāda: They are uncivilized. They are human being.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: They were accusing us of kidnapping their daughter. When I spoke with them I said, "Before your daughter came to our movement she was taking drugs and having sex life even though she was at the early age and so many nonsense things. But now she's not doing those things." They said, "I'd rather she be doing those things than joining your movement." So some people they can't appreciate.

Mrs. Wax: I understand Mr. Patrick kidnapped Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa. Is he all right?

Jayatīrtha: Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa, yes he escaped.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: There's this one fellow, Mr. Ted Patrick. He goes and he kidnaps the devotees. The parents pay him $1,000 up to $25,000...

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Jayatīrtha: ...depending on how wealthy they are. He kidnaps them and tries to brainwash them that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: He was put into the Denver county jail also when we were in Denver. He's out on bail now.

Mrs. Wax: Not only kidnapping devotees, Kṛṣṇa devotees, but all religious movements. He can't stand them.

Prabhupāda: And the parents are taking help from him.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty.

Mrs. Wax: I've noticed that there are different dates given to when the Vedas began, the beginnings of the Vedas. Some historians and authorities say one thing and I've seen many different figures. What is the accurate time they were spoken.

Prabhupāda: If you can find out what is the accurate time of this cosmic creation, then you will find the date of Vedas. Can you find out when it was created? Have you got any statistics?

Mrs. Wax: No, none. I was hoping you did. (laughs)

Mr. Wax: How old is the Hare Kṛṣṇa chant.

Prabhupāda: As old as this creation.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife he gave big palaces made of marble, furniture ivory, and silk and gold, and then again He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms, not that one wife is crying for sixteen thousand days, no. Ready (indistinct). And that is Kṛṣṇa. That was also just to give them protection. When they were all kidnapped by Jarāsandha... No? Bhaumāsura. So when they were released, so asked them, "Go home." So in India, if a girl is kidnapped and she lives outside home for three days, nobody will marry her. That system is still now. So they said that "You are asking to go home but we will not be accepted." "Then what do you want?" "Now You marry us." "All right, come on." (laughter) Wholesale, sixteen thousand wives. This is Kṛṣṇa. We are not captivated by Kṛṣṇa, a Guruji Mahārāja. We know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then we accept He is God. He has proved Himself that He is God. Our Kṛṣṇa is not going to marry a society girl secretary. He is not so cheap.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Bhavānanda: When I had to go to court to appear for having kidnapped that woman and her son, that I was holding the woman and her son by force—the husband placed charges—so this lawyer said, "That... He was a simple man, a little crazy. He wouldn't have done it or had the money to do it. Someone with some more intelligence, higher intelligence, is behind him, goading him on, telling him what to do." He asked who did I think it was? He mentioned Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he asked for any, did I know any particular personalities. I said, "No." He said, "What about Śrīdhara Swami?" Someone.

Prabhupāda: So if Śrīdhara Swami was behind... Maybe. There is no...

Bhavānanda: The point is that they can make so much trouble like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small troubles.

Bhavānanda: Yes, little harassment. Then I even... Of course, I don't know. I even question... Just like that Lalitā Bose, that whole incident which Jayapatākā told you about. Who knows? She is so influenced by... She is big, so-called Vaiṣṇava, and known in so many circles in Bengal. Who is influencing her? You know? Anyway, we simply stay on our land and develop our program. He is going mad.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mercy. When they excuse a saintly person, that is, that is their great mercy. Now, according to Vedic law, a saintly person is never subjected to any law. He's paramahaṁsa. He's never.... Rather, the order is he must be given all help that he wants. That is the Vedic civilization. And brahmacārī, sannyāsīs, they should be treated as children at home, so that wherever they go, they will be treated just like children: "Oh, he's my son. He's my dependent." They will treat like that. And they also go to every home: "Mother, give me some food." So he's children, as the child asks from the mother, "Give me some food." This is system. This is civilization. And M.A., Ph.D., and searching after woman, how to induce her, and being searched out in the airport, whether he's a rogue—what is this education? We don't want this education. (break) ...student life we have seen practically, one big professor, Dr. Brajendranatha Śrī. So he had another Ph.D. student, and that student kidnapped his daughter and went away. He was so educated that kidnapped his teacher's or the master's daughter and went away. . What is that word? Kāmātura.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the big propaganda now. The, there's one.... There's a number of men who kidnap, their professional business is to kidnap devotees and other people who belong to other groups like ours. And they're paid by the parents to kidnap the children back, and they call it deprogram the children, deprogramming.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda saw that article on that Ted Patrick.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw it in New York recently, our president, (sic:) Ādikeśa, he went up against Ted Patrick on television, big television show, and he completely defeated him. So Ted Patrick was saying that, you know, these people are all fanatics. So (sic:) Ādikeśa, at the end, he said, so, if we're fanatics, then the Pope is even more fanatical, so why don't you deprogram him? And everybody laughed at that Ted Patrick. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: He says we teach our.... I mean he has many arguments. He knows all about the incidents in Germany and Japan, and he uses this against us.

Prabhupāda: He's collected all these bad.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: About his experiences of kidnapping our students and others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the book called?

Rāmeśvara: It's called Let My Children Go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let Our Children Go, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So we have got our lawyer to start a lawsuit against him, because in that book they are blaspheming us like anything. And this very big publisher, who published the book, has spent lots of money in advertising. And the advertising always uses our name, because it's controversial. They always try to get people to buy the book, saying "Now you can read about the dangerous Hare Kṛṣṇa people."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's a good propaganda, I think.

Rāmeśvara: But we're trying to stop that.

Prabhupāda: America is feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: Now in South America it has been fashionable.... There are many, many wealthy businessmen living there. So terrorists will kidnap a businessman, and then send a letter to the company in the United States or in that country, stating that "If you do not give us such and such million dollars, we will kill him." So in this way the terrorists are getting millions of dollars by kidnapping big men.

Hṛdayānanda: Businessmen.

Rādhāvallabha: It's happening quite often in South America now.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's going on everywhere. There was a, John Paul Getty's nephew in Italy, he was taken by kidnappers, and they petitioned Getty, "Give us so many millions of dollars, otherwise we'll kill your nephew." So he refused. So after a long, long time the nephew was returned somehow or other, and one of the times when they demanded a ransom, they chopped off his right ear and put it in an envelope and sent it through the post: "This is proof that we have your nephew, now give us money." And still he refused. And then eventually the boy was returned minus his ear.

Hṛdayānanda: And you were saying, Prabhupāda, that even when they have so much money they want more. This man is one of the richest men in the world, and for his own family member he would not pay some money to save him.

Prabhupāda: Who was that man?

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A big demon.

Prabhupāda: In order to kidnap?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, his father arranged it.

Devotee: His father sent him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A very big demon. And Rāmeśvara preached to him, and what happened?

Rāmeśvara: We made him very embarrassed by preaching to him, he felt very insignificant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja called him a jackass (laughter) and many other things.

Prabhupāda: So how he was trying to kidnap you?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, and we tried to prove to him that he was afraid of death and we are not. We are better situated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants to know how did he actually try to kidnap you by telling you, or by his philosophy.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Mike Robinson: But it exists purely as a charity, isn't that correct?

Hari-śauri: Yes, purely nonprofit.

Mike Robinson: Which must make it difficult sometimes, doesn't it?

Harikeśa: No, it's done out of love. So it is not at all difficult.

Mike Robinson: I see.

Jayatīrtha: No one requires any payment. The only payment is the fulfillment that they are experiencing.

Mike Robinson: But how about the electricity board and people like that? I mean, where do you get the money?

Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa gives us the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have no scarcity of money. We are selling our books daily, sixty thousand dollars' worth. So we have got sufficient income to maintain the whole institute.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that, that, there are so many people... If you do not satisfy his senses, everyone is free to run away. That you cannot check. You cannot say, accuse somebody or somebody. Because here everyone is giving voluntary service. Nobody is servant. So if he doesn't like something, at any moment he can go away. At any moment. Just like yesterday the Śāstrī came. So he went away. And somebody, they are coming, going. You cannot check them. Because they are not our paid servants. If they are very kind that they have come here, cooperating with us. But still there is some decency, if one is engaged in some work, all of a sudden he should go away, all of a sudden... That is not very good. That is not very good. Decently, that I used to go, and now in preaching work, so there will be no difficulty, this is the arrangement. Something must be done. All of a sudden, if somebody goes, that isn't very good. Tamāla also, if he did so, that is not good. Because I want some men, I cannot kidnap from any place. That is not good. We must see that the management is going on. The management may not suffer. But the president should allow to go if there is extra men.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So in New York the press is against us. But in Los Angeles it is going in our favor, he said (refers to report by Rāmeśvara). In Los Angeles they had kidnapped the best girl distributor. Now she has come back but ah...

Prabhupāda: So these things will happen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are, as soon as we become very important, our enemies, they will try to suppress us.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is what they are doing.

Prabhupāda: So, that is natural. Even Kṛṣṇa was suppressed. Kṛṣṇa could not be suppressed but the attempt was there. Kamsa. So these things go on, still we have to work.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If we work sincerely then we'll come out successful.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this? Now, you appear to be educated gentlemen, you combine all the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava gosvāmīs, and come with me to fight because there is a world fight now. They are threatened. Their whole civilization is threatened by this movement. That is the position now. Whole Europe and America, they are combining. They are intelligent person, they see that this movement is spreading like epidemic. They have admitted, some of their (indistinct), "If this movement is allowed to advance, then some day they will take our government." They have expressed that feeling. And now they are preparing to fight out. These, all these fathers of these young men, they are combining together to charge me that I am kidnapping their boys. So it is a serious situation, you should not see simply the fun and claim to belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now you should come out to fight. Am I wrong or right.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so, cigarette factories, so theoretically if this movement is successful then whole civilization is finished. So they are now looking... Because these young men have taken seriously so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that (indistinct) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they are (indistinct) a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their (indistinct). I am not kidnapping, I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. (Hindi)

kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī
dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau
śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau...

The gosvāmīs, they are śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Now prove! They are descendants, now prove: come forward. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityānanda-vaṁśa. What is Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Nityānanda went forward before Jagāi-Mādhāi and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Fight between Jagāi-Mādhāi and Nityānanda. That is Nityānanda-vaṁśa, simply taking advantage of coming from Nityānanda-vaṁśa, "I have become guru, give me your money," and sit down. "Let me enjoy life with my wife and children." That kind of Nityānanda-vaṁśa will not help.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You should go to see Visvambhara Gosvāmī also. (Hindi) This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration, now combine together all Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇa cult is for everyone, either Gauḍīya or Rāmānuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. Admitting (Hindi conversation). They are concerned with the Kṛṣṇa cult. Kṛṣṇa cult means all the ācāryas, all the ācāryas, either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka or anyone, they should combine together. (Hindi) (aside:) Why you are talking? It is not very important. It is for him. It is a very bad habit. (aside ends) So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaiṣṇavas of different sampradāyas, especially Gauḍīya sampradāya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight, Kṛṣṇa never said that "Don't fight." (He) never said (to) Arjuna that "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." (He) never said that. (indistinct) Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samu.... viṣame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anārya-juṣṭam, like non-Aryan. (Hindi conversation) This fight is another good news that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many swamis and yogis come, come and go. But now they are feeling the strength, they (are) charging that their young men are being kidnapped.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is knowledge. If people kindly take it everything will be solved. But they have stubbornly denied, "No God." And I am stubbornly fighting, "Yes, there is God." That is the... Now the whole America is combining to fight against me, opposition, that "This man is brainwashing, controlling the mind, and our children are kidnapped." They are bringing these charges against us. Just like you have come. Have I kidnapped you?

Dr. Kneupper: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: But these rascals say that I have kidnapped their children.

Indian man (2): But judgment has been taken.

Prabhupāda: There must be judgment, but people have become so rascal. So I am trying to convince, although single-handed, that "There is God," and they are bringing opposition.

Indian man (2): That is the real philosophy. That is not only Indian philosophy; this is universal philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is for everyone.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Solution. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... And that we are preaching, that "You become God conscious. Everything will be solved." And who is caring for us? Rather, they are giving opposition, that "These rascals are kidnapping our sons, brainwashing, controlling the mind," creating courts case. Just see. This is going on.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you see as a... When you're describing that if the world were going to be God conscious, it would...

Prabhupāda: Everything will be solved.

Dr. Kneupper: But you were describing the caste system or the...

Prabhupāda: This is not caste system. It is natural. There is always an intelligent class of men in the society. So they should be, what is called, listed. They should be trained up properly.

Dr. Kneupper: How do you envision...? Would you envision...?

Prabhupāda: Just like you are a philosopher. So you should not make only theories, "perhaps." But actually, by your philosophy, you establish the existence of God. Then you are philosopher. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya... (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse in the Bhāgavata. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka. If by your philosophical knowledge you prove, "Yes, there is God," then your philosophy study is perfect. And if you philosophize, "There is no God," that is useless waste of time. To gain popularity, if you make philosophy like... In your country there are so many rascals philosophers, Darwin, Freud. They are all rascals. They are predominant.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother? You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence. But they do not know because uncivilized. Foolish fourth-class men. So we are trying to bring them to become first-class men, and they are accusing of brainwash. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." We are teaching that "These boys, they are becoming first-class." Anyone will worship them. How nice they look, how behavior, how their character. We are creating this, and they are accusing, "Oh, they are kidnapping our children." Why you are going? Eh? Why you are going?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well, that we are doing, but this is the opposition. That our boys are trained up. They are trying to meet the opposition. But my point is that such a nice thing we are giving. Why they should oppose? That means uncivilized. Why good thing should be opposed? They say, "In God We Trust," and we are speaking of God only. We have no other business, and they are opposing. And they write, "In God We Trust." Hypocrisy. "If we believe in God, we trust in God, all right, they are talking of God. Let us hear." That is sense. That Patrick? Patrick? He kidnaps our devotees.

Hari-śauri: Ted Patrick.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And by force trying to give him meat. So now, if educated men of your country, they come forward, understand this philosophy, then combined effort... My philosophy is that American and Indian, American money and Indian culture, combine together; the whole world will be changed. That is my philosophy. It is coming to some extent... (break)

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Not unless this gets cleared up.

Prabhupāda: Because it is being discussed about me. They say, "Old man is behind this movement."

Hari-śauri: Even in Australia now they're having the same thing, kidnapping and everything. It's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: That means they are feeling the weight. It is spreading.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. (end)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: Today we just got a new package from New York from this boy. And some of the parents were charging that we were kidnapping and mentally imprisoning their children by making them devotees. Because from their point of view their children were lost to our movement. So...

Prabhupāda: He's a lost child. His father and mother came to me and mother was crying. I said, "So take your son." And the son will not go. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: You are washing away their brains.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) So they are charging like that. What is the new charge? Huh?

Śrutaśrava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are saying "mind control."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) "Mind control." Yes.

Śrutaśrava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so many, all the big scholars in America, all the big famous scholars, they have put together one petition saying how authorized our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is. And they are willing to come forward now. If any time they want some papers in the court-room to show how bona fide our movement is, how we are actually not brainwashers and mind-controlled, there are these scholars in America, they have pledged their support.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: "But such tactics are a gross violation of fundamental human and constitutional rights are to go without saying. In cases where victims have instigated charges of kidnapping against parents and deprogrammers, grand juries have thus far refused to issue indictments apparently because the work is done at the behest of parents or other relatives and ostensibly for the good of the victim. The situation which has prompted me to communicate with members of the professional psychiatric community involves sweeping implications of a very important legal case which will be going to trial sometime in the late winter or early spring. Some background of the case may be helpful here." Then he explains about the case. Anyway, it's very nicely written. And he's mostly trying to expose that the psychiatrists have to take an objective standpoint. Otherwise, there are some psychiatrists who are atheistic and they are contending that any religious experience or so-called religious consciousness is a...

Prabhupāda: Artificial dependence.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: All these... Kīrtanānanda Swami was there and a boy who was kidnapped, Vasu Gopāla, as well as Dr. Harvey Cox, the Civil Liberties Attorney who is defending us, and Dr. Stephen Corover, a psychologist, Jack Colley, who's a renowned religious scholar, and Dr. Eck, a lecturer in Sanskrit and India studies at Harvard. The public was invited and they had questions from the floor and all of the members of the panel, important people, were all in our support. It's very long...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Hari-śauri: There's one interesting statement in there from one of these men. He's lived in Vṛndāvana for about two years. And he says how when he first went to Vṛndāvana, all the people there, they would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, but it was kind of a derogatory thing because they had seen this film, Dum-mada-dam. So whenever they saw a Westerner they thought, "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma," implying, "Oh, you're a hippie, you're a drug addict." Like that. But he said in the last two or three years since we established our temple, now that is completely changed. They're still saying, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma," all the children shout it, but now they expect us to shout "Haribol" back and that it's a sign of, it's a friendly gesture now. So he's an outsider, but he's noticed the change in the Indian people's attitude, especially in Vṛndāvana.

Jagadīśa: He said, "Any Westerner they see in Vṛndāvana they say Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Room Conversation -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, try to see the distinction. Before me, so many people went. They misinterpreted Bhagavad-gītā, there was no effect. And we are not misinterpreting. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is given. That is the point. Everyone says, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful thing." But I say , "I do not know any magic, jugglery. But wonderful thing is that I have not adulterated." That is wonderful. Otherwise, nothing wonderful. What I am saying? Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. I am creating them bhaktas, that's all. I am starting these temples and ask them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. You become devotee, you always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. And they are giving up everything. Their father and mother, they are thinking, "They are our lost child." They are now giving the opposition. They have brought so many cases against me. But unless it is effective, how they are feeling the weight? Now these boys, their father, mother constantly kidnap them.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.

Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "As of this date, Hare Kṛṣṇa has been able to flood both the media and the District Attorney's offices with support for their side..."

Prabhupāda: They're admitting. That's good.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: It is like you wrote in that letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "They did not mind when the children were hippies, taking drugs, having prostitutes. But now that they have joined Hare Kṛṣṇa, now they are kidnapping you. They did not protest formerly when they were engaged in all sinful life. Now they are completely pure. Now they are complaining."

Jagadīśa: Now their children are afraid of sinful life, and they think it's brainwashing.

Rāmeśvara: This is a devotee making part of the armor for Arjuna. Each time they make an outfit, they do a very careful drawing. Then from the drawing, they make the actual equipment or armor.

Prabhupāda: And how devotedly he is working. That is the..., that "I am..." How devotedly he is working. That will elevate him. He's very attentively serving Kṛṣṇa. This is advancement.

Rāmeśvara: They are working, minimum, twelve hours daily just on the dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not become tired. Kṛṣṇa conscious work is so nice, nobody becomes tired. He wants to do more. Duralage hurahuri. (?) Competition. This is spiritual.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is necessary. You don't sleep. Never Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am your friend. I am God. You sleep here. (laughter) I'll do everything." No! "You must fight." That is wanted. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara: (BG 8.7) "You fight and remember Me. Then I'll do everything." This is an opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa always—"Kṛṣṇa, save us." (break) So what are these pictures? Against us?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This shows that if they kidnap you and they convince you to give up your belief in God, you will be very happy. You will have nice girlfriend. You will be very happy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of.... And no sense that "It is my mother."

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, outside scholars...

Hari-śauri: And from all the scholars and professors and everything.

Prabhupāda: "It is bona fide thinking and you are checking."

Hari-śauri: What complicates it is they get ex-cult members to come and testify that "Yes, I was psychologically kidnapped. I was made into a robot just to think of God."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So the whole thing's become a very...

Prabhupāda: We have to defend in our way. (end)

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified." But some of them, there are...

Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."

Guest (2): He?

Prabhupāda: "Return my son." And "Take your son." And then he was asked, and he was silent. So mother began to cry. So I promised that "I shall send your son. He'll go. Don't bother." His father, mother came. And many father, mother come to give me thanks, "Swamiji, it is great fortune of our country that you have come."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: We must impose. You impose they will not chant. That is your business. We must impose. That is my business. If you have power, you stop them.

Rāmeśvara: "But you're not giving them a chance to think when they chant so many hours."

Prabhupāda: Why shall I give you chance? You are thieves. You are coming to kidnap. Why shall I give you chance? You say to them, as we are saying, that "You chant." They are chanting. You make brainwash. You ask them, "Don't chant." That is your business. But that you cannot do.

Rāmeśvara: "But by this chanting, they develop a kind of blind faith, and they stop thinking."

Prabhupāda: So, what is to you and to your father? Let them do that. Everyone has got freedom.

Rāmeśvara: But they say that that takes away freedom, because it takes away freedom to think.

Prabhupāda: So that is a controversy, that you want to take his freedom and still, you are accusing that, that way.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Now, they say... Just like in Los Angeles we have sued the family for two million dollars, two and a half million dollars, because they kidnapped their girl. So they say that the girl, she would not have done this, but because we told her to do it, therefore she did it. Therefore there is control. We are controlling her.

Prabhupāda: We must because you checked her freedom.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why did you kidnap? Therefore we must teach him some lesson.

Jagadīśa: Everyone acts in such a way to please his friends, anyway.

Rāmeśvara: Their argument is that this girl who was kidnapped, she still likes her family, but now we have told her, "You must sue them." So therefore she is doing it. So therefore she is not free. She is... We are controlling her.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you want to control her. We are controlling, but you want to control her. So if you can control, why shall I not control? Why you are poking your nose? We shall cut your nose.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: So that is all right. Then you break. Now he's quite fit for your conversion. He's now weak. You convert him to your ideas. (laughter) We have made the ground.

Rāmeśvara: That's what they want! They want us...

Prabhupāda: Then why do you kidnap? You say.

Rāmeśvara: They want us to give the devotees to them, and then they will deprive them of food and sleep and deprogram him.

Jagadīśa: But we're already depriving him of food and sleep.

Prabhupāda: But they are open to everyone. Why do you kidnap? Why do you steal like a thief?

Rāmeśvara: For his own good.

Prabhupāda: Then you are thief. Then thief can also say like that, "For my good I can steal."

Rāmeśvara: "It is the lesser of evils."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But God does not allow.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But they have never used it against us. But now they have started. One devotee, a girl from Berkeley temple who is a very big book distributor... Sometimes she could collect five, six hundred dollars in one day. She was just kidnapped—by order of the court. They have a psychologist who listens to the parents' description, and on the basis of that secondhand report the psychologist...

Prabhupāda: No, kidnapping, that is already law there. If one is minor or without the permission of the parent, with police force she or..., can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: But this is not for minors. This is for adults.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh.

Rāmeśvara: This is a new thing, that the psychologist will write some report to the court that "Based on the information I have received, this person is not mentally competent. Therefore this person must be put under the guardianship of their parents even if they are an adult. Otherwise they will harm themselves." So in this way the psychologists...

Prabhupāda: But any psychologist will give report or anyone can...

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now, the... Externally, it appears that anyone can be kidnapped simply by the certificate of the psychologist.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. That is the real point, that this is like Nazi Germany. This is insane. So because it is so anti-American, then many people who would not normally connect themselves with our movement are now coming forward to help us.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. Otherwise the freedom is lost. Anyone can be kidnapped.

Rāmeśvara: That is what they are realizing, that this may not stop at just Hare Kṛṣṇa. They can kidnap anyone. That's our propaganda to get support.

Prabhupāda: Just like emergency.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Sītā was put into the fire and she came out unburned. Sītā was blasphemed, that "This woman was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Rāmacandra is so henpecked that He has again picked up her and living with her." So Rāmacandra put him (her) in the fire and she came unharmed.

Rāmeśvara: You were asking me what is the use of, say, if you came to America, if you were on television. But actually people are very interested in this issue, so they will listen. They are listening to see us, hoping that we will be exposed.

Prabhupāda: Now, Hari-śauri was (saying) that there are many fanatics. They may attack me: "He's the man who has started this movement."

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: These deprogrammers will go to any length.

Gargamuni: They'll do anything to stop it. You'd have to have professional bodyguards.

Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he is not being attacked. The other leaders aren't.

Gargamuni: I think you should carry on your fighting from India through your other men.

Rāmeśvara: Or at least a place like Hawaii.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There are many gentlemen who take insulin twice, at least once.

Rāmeśvara: The diabetics. They have diabetes. Very common. We have a devotee who does that. This boy in New York whose parents have kidnapped him many times. He is actually... That's their charge against us, that "Oh, my son is diabetic, and you are not spending $25,000 on doctors. You are not taking care of him." That is their charge against us. Then Ādi-keśava Mahārāja said, "All right, if you want him to have such excellent medical treatment, you give us the money and we'll spend it on it." So then the parents say, "Just see! Blackmail." That is a big charge in the paper. It's called extortion. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja was indicted for kidnapping and for extortion.

Hari-śauri: He's that Ed Shapiro.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. The parents cheated again. They said, "Just see, blackmail."

Hari-śauri: That's how that charge came up.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They lie and say, "This president, he said, 'If you do not give us this money, we will let your son die.' "

Prabhupāda: In a different way.

Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: You are trying also. Now they are also trying mind control, our men kidnapping by force. This is another mind control. They have already given up their mind to us, and you are trying to control his mind by force-deprogramming, kidnapping. Is it not mind control? Here his mind is already in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and by force you are trying to deviate him. Is it not mind control? "And your mind control is good. My mind control is bad." That is your philosophy. So anyone, any rascal, will say, "My activities are good, and your activities are bad."

Satsvarūpa: Anyway, on the whole, this report, it's a little more in our favor than not, I noticed. The good things are...

Prabhupāda: No these things should be protested. They must publish. Answer.

Satsvarūpa: They had a nice statement in here by the president of Boston temple, Aja, Aja dāsa.

Prabhupāda: But the name Kṛṣṇa is there.

Satsvarūpa: Oh yes, everywhere. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) That is our advertisement. What is the heading?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I don't remember. He stays in New York? Oh, yes, yes. I remember. Hm.

Brahmānanda: Our devotee stayed with him, this one girl who was kidnapped. The police were looking for her. So they arranged... He lives out on Long Island, he made arrangement for them to stay. The police were looking all over, but they couldn't find.

Prabhupāda: She gave shelter, he gave?

Brahmānanda: He gave shelter, Yes. Mother Śīlavatī and this girl, they stayed with him. He very much admired mother Śīlavatī's austerity, how she was just taking a little milk, little vegetable and nothing else but always engaged. He was impressed.

Prabhupāda: Śīlavatī is in New York?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Where are her sons?

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our devotees in California was kidnapped out of the airport. She was distributing books in the airport in San Francisco, and because the court gave an order to the parents that "For thirty days you can take your daughter and commit her," so they have brought her to Arizona, where they have a special center set up for deprogramming, legal psychological tests. So for thirty days they ran these... They did some... We don't know what's going on there, some horrible things. Now the girl has sent a letter, and it showed that she is no longer in a devotional attitude. She said, "I'm very glad that I was rescued. Otherwise I would have been made to collect money all my life for your society, and now I'm saved from this."

Prabhupāda: She had been dictated to write like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But probably they did some brain thing to her.

Prabhupāda: That is brainwash.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "I force you. You accept this"—your personal choice.

Ādi-keśava: That is them returning someone to personal choice. You see them dragging them off.

Brahmānanda: That's the mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the mother, the father and the kidnappers.

Prabhupāda: This is personal choice.

Ādi-keśava: They're saying, "You do not know what is your personal choice. You have forgotten. Now it is brainwashed away. Otherwise you would remember. So we are doing this for your own good." They call it "rescuing." They say that "We are rescuing him from this Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So everyone can say by force to do something is good.

Ādi-keśava: They say that "You don't know your own choice. You have lost your memory of what is real choice."

Prabhupāda: So the people will accept this is choice? By force?

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What do they believe?

Tripurāri: They believe that they're just a body, and to enjoy the body till death, and then nothing. You present such nice philosophy, but they would rather think that they were just a bag of bones.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Ted Patrick says that celibacy is a sign of insanity. He kidnaps nuns, priests... Anybody who takes celibate vow, he says he is not in his right mind.

Brahmānanda: He took one of our devotees and brought him to the naked dance shows and even hired prostitutes to go with him.

Ādi-keśava: I asked him once, I said, "If you had a chance..."

Prabhupāda: You saw him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On television. Ādi-keśava was on television with him.

Ādi-keśava: I said to him, "If you had a chance to deprogram the Pope, would you do it?" He said, "Oh, definitely. I'd love to."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If the Pope was celibate.

Prabhupāda: (looking at photo) Who is this boy?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: And then they'll influence them away. Actually we have a good reason for not letting them see their parents now, because when the parents call them on the phone and say, "I want to see you for five minutes," it's so they can kidnap them and deprogram them. That's how the kidnap them. The parents call and they say "Oh..." They make some arrangement to meet their child, and it's a trick. They have these gangsters waiting. I can see now my parents weren't so bad after all.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm!

Hari-śauri: I was thinking I was very unfortunate to take a birth in a family of nondevotees, but they're not so bad compared to these others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā's mother is here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What does she say?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that? (breaks)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...kidnapped three of our devotees about a week before we... Just about a week...

Prabhupāda: So we cannot take any position?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, no, because the kidnapping is legal. They got...

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They got permission from the court for conservatorship.

Ādi-keśava: But two of the devotees have already escaped.

Prabhupāda: If it is legal, what can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's... This is their new tactic now. This is their new tactic, that they're getting the court permission.

Prabhupāda: Then Americans' liberty is gone.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, if the law helps to kidnap, then what you can do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that just now there was a meeting of the five hundred leading rabbis of the Jewish faith in favor of deprogramming, because they're very alarmed that the young men and women of the synagogues are joining our movement and other type of movements and leaving their so-called past religion. So the rabbis are going to take up... They like this deprogramming. They like this kidnapping. And he says also that just now in Newsweek magazine there's been a big article printed in favor of deprogramming, special article about this Tucson, Arizona, deprogramming center. So he says that he expects more and more of this deprogramming. He's a little bit alarmed because all of our leaders will be here in India now for the next few weeks.

Ādi-keśava: Turn the fan off...

Prabhupāda: The light, not the fan.

Hari-śauri: It won't turn off the same way it turned on.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you do it?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, how is this American law is allowed that anyone can be kidnapped?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the whole point...

Ādi-keśava: We have gotten in some states injunctions from the court so that people cannot be taken. For instance in California they have an injunction. In Massachusetts...

Prabhupāda: If this injunction is there, why don't you take steps and...?

Ādi-keśava: They took them from other states. So we're trying to extend it now to the other states. But in some places there are new laws, so we have to find a new way to go against it. We have just defeated the law in the state of Vermont. They proposed one law...

Prabhupāda: That law, but is what can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, no, I mean he wasn't asking for any statement. I was just giving it as information.

Prabhupāda: That they have already taken. (converses with man in Bengali) (break) When there is fight, fight is fight. They'll take their tactics; we shall take our tactics.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Well, the violence there may be. It doesn't matter.

Hari-śauri: We should... If we have to, we can...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We must... Self-protection must be there.

Hari-śauri: Because now with these kidnappings it seems that we may have to...

Prabhupāda: Fight!

Hari-śauri: Then we'll have to fight.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Kill them.

Hari-śauri: Yes. If we don't get protection from the government, then what can we do?

Prabhupāda: Oh, you must kill them. Tit for tat. As soon as we detect that "Here is deprogrammer and kidnapper," kill him. Finish!

Hari-śauri: And if we go to court, then it's self-defense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least give him some good lesson. Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: ...for myself? That boy who was with me from Australia, I've sent him back this morning. He's gone back this morning. There is actually two or three major things going on there, so I have to try to get back as soon as possible. There is a purchase of the farm, eight hundred acre farm, which comes up in about seven or eight days, and then we have to consider whether to buy that building in Sydney. You've seen that picture already. And also there's a big court case coming up in Melbourne. The deprogramming thing is going on there also. But this time the court case is being pressed by... It's a civil case. The police wouldn't take it up. So the girl who was kidnapped, we are pressing charges, but through her against the parents. So this is going to be a big case also. So that's coming up in the end of April. So I have to see what the presentation is like and get more information from Ādi-keśava and make sure that we will press it very strongly, the whole issue. Someone just sent a newspaper clipping about the whole thing. I expect to be going to Delhi in about two days, to try to speed up the process of getting a re-entry permit. Then once I do that, I can go on. (long pause) (break)

Girirāja: This evening, the chief guest is going to arrive at about a quarter to seven.

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest?

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not here, there.

Mr. Koshi: In the United States.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They were kidnapped, they were taken by force, and so on, so on. So many times.

Mr. Koshi: No, I think the opposition comes because of...

Prabhupāda: Opposition comes means there was some strength of this movement. Therefore there was...

Mr. Koshi: No, I think the complaint was of families...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they felt the strength. In Bengali it is called capale babale.(?)

Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of that?

Prabhupāda: Meaning means when there is some weight, is a (indistinct). So now they are feeling the weight of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Mr. Koshi: They were afraid of something.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa gave him within—bullet. Yes. "Your nonviolence is within. You take it within. Take this bullet." Such wrong theory. These are wrong theories. "You want to establish nonviolence, and the violence is within. Take it." So don't theorize. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti (BG 16.23). This is Gītā's word. If you do not follow the śāstra—you manufacture ideas—you'll never get success, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukham, no happiness, and what to speak of parāṁ gatim? (Hindi) Tasmāt śāstra-vidhānoktaṁ kāryākārya... What is that verse? Real guidance, śāstra, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is very easy. But we have given up all these things. (Hindi) So you have to give up this. Otherwise there is no hope. (break) And to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is not at all difficult. Very simple thing. Otherwise how they have become? Ten years before, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become Kṛṣṇa conscious? And our position is that even a person like Gandhi, he could not become Kṛṣṇa conscious in hundred years. Because the wrong way. And they have become within ten years fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now ask him that "Go back to your Christian." Will they go? They have been kidnapped. They have been forced. In so many ways they have been harassed. No. In America it was going on. Their fathers... From parents' side they have been kidnapped, detoured by force that "You eat it, the māṁsa. You eat." What is that girl who was kidnapped and she came to temple and married?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Just like here is a monkey. Is it not violence sometimes to drive away them? There will be attack, and you have to protect your... This world is not like that, that there is no... It is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not..., you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. (Hindi) How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Indian man (7): What is meant by nonviolence?

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.

Indian man (7): It has no meaning?

Prabhupāda: Simply imagination, that's all. (Hindi conversation) (Hindi) ...proper use... (Hindi) This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.

Indian man (8): What is to world Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolence or...

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss nonviolen... But we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then Tṛṇāvarta, big, big yuddha. Then Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Śakaṭāsura, this asura, this asura, that asura, in childhood, in Vṛndāvana, so many. Then, when He went to Mathurā, big, big elephant, big, big wrestler. Then Kaṁsa. Then, after Kaṁsa, then Jarāsandha, Pauṇḍraka, then kidnapping His wives. Fighting, only fighting. And these rascals say, "I do not like this Kṛṣṇa." You have heard that? He is creating his own Kṛṣṇa, this Gandhi.

Yaśomatīnandana: They also say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata is different from Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How they are distorting history and everything. And in Mahābhārata... He's advertising himself as staunch student of Bhagavad-gītā, and he is distorting the meaning in so many ways. That is his business. And he's mahātmā. Mahātmā means mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya... (BG 9.13). Mahātmā is a great devotee who has no other business than to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. Bhajanti. Bhajana-sevā. And he's is discarding, distorting, and he's mahātmā. Just see. If you study, scrutinizing, these men have done greatest disservice to the country, to the people in general. And they have received no result. And I have worked ten years only with Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Correspondence

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Satsvarupa -- San Francisco 3 April, 1968:

Accept my blessing. I am in due receipt of your letter of 4/1/68 and I am glad that you have solved the hospital bill of Pradyumna. I am so glad to learn that he is taking part in Istagosthi. His answers are very much intelligent. I have fixed up date for going to N.Y. on the 17th.

One thing you may inform all devotees that Maya cannot touch a pure devotee: When you find a devotee is supposed in difficulty it is not the work of Maya but it is the work of the Lord by His Personal internal energy. The Pandava's tribulation in so many ways, Lord Ramacandra's departure to the forest, His wife the Goddess of Fortune's being kidnapped by Ravana, Lord Krishna's death being caused by the arrow of a hunter, Thakura Haridasa's being caned in 22 market or Lord Jesus Christ being crucified are all acts of the Lord personally. We cannot always understand the intricacies of such incidences. Sometimes they are enacted to bewilder persons who demons. You should therefore discuss in the Istagosthi from current reading matters from B.G. or S.B. We should only try to understand everything from the standard of devotional service. It is stated clearly in the B.G. that any one who is cent per cent engaged in the service of the Lord is transcendentally situated and the influence of Maya has no more any action on such body.

Letter to Brahmananda -- Seattle 16 October, 1968:

Regarding Gargamuni: All of a sudden I thought that he should go and take charge of his father's business. And as soon as I proposed, he phoned to his father and he also was very much anxious to receive. So this is also another chance for us, that we can show a model factory. Actually as you say, that we want to perfect everything with Krishna Consciousness. Our policy is that without Krishna, everything is zero. But zero by the side of Krishna, is 10, 100, and so on. So the whole Vaisnava philosophy is like that. The Ravana class of men, they want Sita without Rama, and therefore there is havoc. Ravana kidnapped Sita from the clutches of Ravana, and the result was that the whole nation, whole family, was vanquished. And Hanuman's policy was to bring back Sita and let her sit down by the side of Rama. So we do not neglect anything, because everything is manifestation of Krishna's energy. Krishna's energy means Sita, and Krishna is Rama.

1975 Correspondence

Letter to Swami Sahajananda -- Durban 12 October, 1975:

"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." But, those who are deriding the Godhood of Krishna are considered as demons and raksasas. There was only one raksasa at the time of Lord Ramacandra who did not care for the Lord and attempted to kidnap his wife so he took away maya-laksmiji from Narayana. The result was that he became ruined with his whole family and kingdom. In this age of kali there are a number of Ravanas deriding the Godhood of Lord Krishna and Lord Ramacandra, and they will meet with the same result as it was done in the case of Ravana. So it is a dangerous position of the whole world that they have become all godless or atheists in different degree or manner. It is the duty of saintly persons to save these rascals from ruination. So, I wish that a devotee of Lord Krishna like you may conjointly work in propagating Krishna Consciousness to save the fallen souls from going down to the darkest region of hell. I am quoting one verse from the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 7, chapter 5, verse 31:

1976 Correspondence

Letter to B.R. Sridhara Maharaja -- Los Angeles 6 June, 1976:

"After the report (request for land) was submitted, the District Magistrate sent some land officers to come here to our site to inspect the lands and their position, nature, etc. During this time the local people some how or other came to know about the acquisition. This was mainly transmitted through Damodara Maharaja initially, some persons say. Some local farmers raised a petition against the land acquisition, with about 90 signatures. Petitions for having the development plans go through are also being raised by the local people, the majority of whom support the ISKCON plan. About 2,000 should be raised in total in favor of this project. One supporter, while coming to show me his petition, with 500 signatures on it, was kidnapped and the petition was snatched away. He was taken to Madhava Maharaja's Math doorstep and some of the local cultivators and Prabhu's of the Math threatened him and demanded why he was supporting ISKCON. The supporter was now more determined to raise support in face of the rude behavior.

Letter to Ramesvara -- Vrindaban 7 November, 1976:

Just show in the court that the boy wants to remain with his mother and that the mother wants to keep the boy very nicely. You can say that his father may force the boy to eat meat, etc. and in this way convince them not to take the boy away from his mother.

I understand that due to this incident we are now voted out of our Evanston temple by the city council, and that in San Diego we have been stopped from purchasing one building. Now, this Mr. Yanoff is creating a very bad impression of our movement. What is our gain? These things should be done legally not whimsically. If the father is victorious in the courts then what can we do? Our business is not to kidnap. People must come voluntarily. It is always voluntary. Krsna is offering the chance to go back home, Back to Godhead, but He leaves the choice up to the living entity.

Page Title:Kidnap (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Mayapur, RupaManjari, Visnu Murti
Created:10 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=61, Let=5
No. of Quotes:66