Kaka-taliya-nyaya: the logic of the crow and the palm fruit

Expressions researched:
"kaka-tal-nyaya" |"kaka-taliya" |"kaka-taliya-nyaya"

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Jñānī, they are simply speculating. That logic, kākā-taliya nyāya: "Whether the crow first of all sat down on the palm fruit; then the palm fruit fell down? Or the palm fruit fell down; therefore the crow could not sit on the palm fruit?" They are wasting time speculating.

Lecture on SB 5.5.30 -- Vrndavana, November 17, 1976:

Working like hogs and dogs day and night for sense gratification, certainly he is mūḍha, karmī. Similarly, jñānī, they are simply speculating. That logic, kākā-taliya nyāya: "Whether the crow first of all sat down on the palm fruit; then the palm fruit fell down? Or the palm fruit fell down; therefore the crow could not sit on the palm fruit?" Logic. One paṇḍita said, "No, no. First of all, the palm fruit fell down, and the crow wanted to sit down on it, so he could not." Now another paṇḍita says, "No, no. The palm fruit was there, and because the crow sat down on it, it fell down." Now this is logic. They are wasting time speculating. Kākā-taliya nyāya. Kupa-manduka-nyāya. There are.

Philosophy Discussions

This argument is called in Sanskrit kaka-tal-nyāya. This kind of argument has no value.

Philosophy Discussion on Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz:

Prabhupāda: Jugglery of words. It has no meaning.

Śyāmasundara: Just like the example of the rock falling in the water. He would say that the water separating and the rock falling are two separate acts. Neither one affects the other.

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. This argument is called in Sanskrit kaka-tal-nyāya. There was a tal tree, and one crow came, and immediately the fruit fell down. And there were two arguers: one said that the crow sat down on the fruit and it was so light it fell down, and the other said no, the crow was trying to sit down on the fruit but in the meantime the fruit fell and he could not sit. It is like that. It may be coincidence, the crow was just trying to sit on the fruit and the fruit fell. But these people's answer is no, the crow first sat down, then is was fallen. Another says no, the fruit has fallen down; therefore the crow could not sit. So this kind of argument has no value. According (indistinct), the water separated and the stone fell—they are nonsensical. Our argument is strong: that if Kṛṣṇa desires, the stone can float on the water, despite the law of gravitation. The law of gravitation is not working. So many huge planets are floating. How they are floating? The law of gravitation is working here. The stone falls down and (indistinct) goes down in the water. But that is one of the ingredients of the planet. But the planet itself is floating in the air. Where is the law of gravitation? Therefore Kṛṣṇa's desire. The cause is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Let it be floating." Or He has made some arrangement. By law of gravitation every planet should have gone down, and there is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and broke His head, because he is lying down in the Garbhodakaśāyī... So all the planets fall on Him and He is dead. But no. By His order they are all floated. That is Kṛṣṇa.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

As soon as there is little controversy.... I explained yesterday. The crow and the tāla fruit. Somebody said this; somebody said this. Then what is that important thing? Crow and a tāla. You know the kāka-tālīya-nyāya?

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the important thing. (break) A man is diseased. He has gone to the physician. So whether is the first duty to investigate wherefrom the disease came or to cure him? Which is important?

Yaśodānandana: To cure.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, Nṛsiṁhadeva might have done this or here or there, but He is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why bother with unnecessary things? We know Nṛsiṁha is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara stha paramāṇu cayān... That is the conclusion.

Jayādvaita: We were just afraid that if we published a picture that was not correct, then you might become like Nṛsiṁhadeva.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayādvaita: We were afraid that if we were to publish a picture that is not correct...

Prabhupāda: So when it is disputed, why should you publish that picture? It is controversial. You should not print.

Yaśodānandana: The controversy is only amongst the...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. As soon as there is little controversy.... I explained yesterday.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: For dhātun?(?)

Prabhupāda: No, the crow, the crow and the tāla fruit. Somebody said this; somebody said this. Then what is that important thing? Crow and a tāla. You know the kāka-tālīya-nyāya?

Yaśodānandana: I never heard that story.

Prabhupāda: There was a tree, tāla tree, and.... tāla tree. So one crow was there, and the tāla fruit fell down. Two paṇḍitas, they began, "Whether the tāla fruit fell down.... Because the crow sat down on it, therefore fell down." The other said, "No, the tāla fruit was falling down, and the crow could not sit on it." And they began to fight: "No, this." He said, "No this, no this," go on.

Akṣayānanda: Or maybe the crow tried to eat it.

Yaśodānandana: I think in this case it was just a question that they never knew actually what was the actual position. But if Your Divine Grace does not wish anything to be published regarding that place, then we will not do.

Prabhupāda: As soon as there is some controversy, avoid it. That's all. Tāla fruit and crow. You worship Nṛsiṁhadeva. Ito nṛsiṁhaḥ parato, yato yato yāmi tato nṛsiṁhaḥ. Nṛsiṁhadeva is everywhere.