Judge (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"judge" |"judge's" |"judged" |"judges" |"judgeship" |"judging"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Because he thinks he knows, he does not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: One who thinks he knows...

Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.

Acyutānanda: While he was saying that, I was thinking, "I hope I never have him for a judge."

Prabhupāda: You'll find everywhere such.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: No, no. And court can say anything, but then why not put it into the judgment of many judges?

Harikeśa: Then we have to establish what is Hinduism...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He's not British either.

Prabhupāda: No, we are clearly stating Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, it is clearly explained by Nārada Muni, that one has to be judged by the qualification. If the qualification.... Yady anyatrāpi diśetaḥ. If the qualification is somewhere else, then he must be designated by that qualification. Just like.... doctor's.... (Hindi) (break) ...qualification of medical man and you are practicing, that's all. Who is concerned with your caste?

Dr. Patel: So catur-varṇa is according to guṇa and karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no, that is wrong. Every suffering is brought by you, yourself. Just like if you are punished by the high-court judge to be hanged, you don't make the high-court judge is the cause of your hanging. You made a situation; the high-court judge has given you the judgment that you must be hanged.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Twice a day can come, take bath and enjoy sporting life and then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take good prasādam. That's all. Why they should waste their time in technology to become a coolie?

Girirāja: Actually there was once a case. A newspaper once wrote that Henry Ford was ignorant. So Henry Ford filed a case against the newspaper. So in the hearing, the defense asked so many questions about science and history to Henry Ford. So Henry Ford said to the judge that "In my office I have a panel of buttons, and I can press any button and someone will come running to answer any of these questions. So am I ignorant?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was condemned to death, then C.R. Das saved him. Then he decided, "This politic has no value. Let me go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He dreamed at night, "Why you are bothering with these things?" This is the history. So just after getting off, the judge, immediately left.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then we shall judge the quality of necessity. That is another thing. First of all necessities, then quality.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You are rascal, how you can desire? You have no qualification, you desire to high-court judge. What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: But then they have an answer.

Prabhupāda: What is that answer?

Rāmeśvara: That "Let me just try it anyway, to keep my mind thinking..."

Prabhupāda: How you can try it? First of all, be qualified, a big lawyer. Then you become high-court judge. Where is that qualification? You are after illicit sex and biḍi and you want to be associated with the gopīs.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the danger. But if they at once go to rāsa-līlā, because they are not trained up neither they are liberated, they'll think this rāsa-līlā is just like our young boys, young girls mix together, have sex like that. So it is supported our.... "Why should we restrict to no illicit sex, no this, no rules and regulations? We shall do all nonsense." That's all. And become a gopī. It is very good to aspire to become high-court judge, but how you can become high-court judge without qualification? That they are not thinking. They have no qualification, they have illicit sex, pregnant, going to abortion, and they're high-court judge.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Physical fitness, they are, this.... To keep the brain in order, that is also physical thing. So.... And the soldier trained up how to fight, that is also physical. But you cannot ask the high-court judge to go and fight in the field. Both of them are physical, but you cannot ask the high-court judge, "Go and fight in the front." His business is different, his business is different.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Same, that is another.... Just like you are in different type of dress, I am in different type of dress, that is another thing. Dress may be changed in different types, but I, the owner of the dress, is the same. Now a person, the same person, when he's dressed as a high-court judge, he's dealing differently in the high-court. And the same person, after giving up his garment of high-court judge, he talks with the wife and children in a different way, talking. The wife does not address him, "My lord." The wife calls, Mr. John. "John, why you are doing this?" She has no respect, as the respect he gets in the court. Man is the same, circumstance is different.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: In this way he's.... The money's in his hand. If you want money for expenditure, so if I press you, you have need of money, so you do everything, give some back, get the money. You are in urgent need. Everywhere. All, whole world they have become dishonest. Even the high-court judges, magistrate, they are getting bribe.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No. Pradyumna, of course, personally saw. But when I was in Dallas I could not find any good progress.

Jagadīśa: How do you judge that progress?

Prabhupāda: By the chanting of the Sanskrit verses. Not all of them could do it very nicely. It is only practice, and.... Apart from Pradyumna. So his complaint is that he cannot write even 1, 2, 3, 4, up to ten.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.

Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Niyataḥ. You should read Bhagavad-gītā so thoroughly for everything. That is good lawyer. Good lawyer means in the court, immediately give reference to the judge, "My Lordship, such and such law, under section...this is there." He's a good lawyer. Good lawyer means he immediately gives reference to the section on which he's talking. Immediately judgement is there. If there is previous authority and it is recorded in the lawbook, then he doesn't require to argue anymore, the evidence is there. Even in other court, if some judgement is there, they'll be accepted. This is the law. So a good lawyer means he gives references from different courts, the judgement makes easier.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. Now if you want justice, you can get it according to your desire, justice, if you have got money. That is going on. That if you bribe to the court's men and even to the judge or magistrate, you get justice accordingly. That is going on.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Not arbitrarily. It is given by Kṛṣṇa. It is not arbitrary. By the supreme order. How they can say it is arbitrary? Then what is the use of referring to Bhagavad-gītā? Things may not be arbitrary, whimsical, therefore we have to take reference from Bhagavad-gītā. Lawbook. When a judge gives his judgement, he does not give it arbitrarily. There is lawbooks. So there is no question of arbitrary. The reference is there. How you can say it is arbitrary? That is not a fact. Śāstra-vidhi. Rather, if you don't care for śāstra-vidhi, then he'll never be successful. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, in this chapter you'll find.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They keep prostitutes also?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Oh, yes, they use them. Actually, they are controlling many of these judges, and then we are coming in, and we are preaching the other thing, no prostitution, no drinking, and then we are getting fines.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If the natural tendency of the living entity is to want to exist, to live, then why is it they perform so many horrible acts that will destroy themselves?

Prabhupāda: They are thinking that they will exist in that way.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary. He's thinking, "I am so busy and working so hard. I am not getting any good salary. And this man is sitting only on the bench and he's getting so fat salary." So therefore this is question like that. The Vedic civilization is for self-realization. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Kovido means very learned.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fatalistic... I have given this example also. Just like a man is condemned by the law court to be hanged. Nobody can check it. Nobody can check. Even the same judge who has given this verdict, he cannot check. But if he begs for the mercy of the king, he can check it. He can go all above the law. Therefore, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa for His devotees. Otherwise it is not possible. If one is condemned to death, Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise, it is falsehood when Kṛṣṇa.... Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66)," I shall give you protection from all reaction of sinful activities." Suppose you are to be killed by somebody on account of your sinful activity. Nobody can check it, ordinarily, but Kṛṣṇa can check it. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's telling false, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall give you protection." So therefore our business should be only to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And if you artificially want to be more happy by economic development, that is not possible. That is not possible.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Reason means people do not know. They cheat. Suppose I present something, a misconception, and if there are others also who can speak something on the... There are two lawyers. One is speaking one point of law, another lawyer is speaking. So if you take one side only, then how you will understand? So they are simply reading this Śārīraka-bhāṣya. They are not reading other bhāṣyas, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is natural. And they are cheating people. That's all. Why there are two lawyers? Two opposite parties, there are two lawyers. One lawyer says this law is like this, and the other party says, "No, it is this." And the judge is there, he will take what is the real meaning. But this interpretation is required when things are not clear.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can judge what is real religion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: But what is their standard of failure and success?

Hari-śauri: Well, they don't... They're establishing a standard now. They don't have a standard. They are always going to try to claim that it is beneficial. Otherwise, if it's judged a failure, then they won't get any money.

Prabhupāda: That way they are successful—in getting money.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But if we take Him... Just like here there are so many gentlemen, now here is a lawyer or here is a high-court judge, and if I take him, that he's also an ordinary man, that is my mistake. Even if he comes as ordinary visitor, still he's high-court judge. His position is not declined.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They are going on arguing on some point, they do not come to conclusion. But when the judge gives his conclusion, that has to be accepted. That is final. So we have to find out the judge. That is Kṛṣṇa. So we have got many points to understand by argument, but if we take the judgment of Kṛṣṇa, then it is conclusive. And He has His direction in every field of life, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Even our political leaders, they also accept Bhagavad-gītā in guidance. So if you take guidance from Bhagavad-gītā without malinterpretation, then we are benefited. Unfortunately, we interpret our own way, which is favorable to us, and that is not required. Then the authority of the Bhagavad-gītā is gone. We make our own conclusion, supposing on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. That will not help us, by malinterpretation. You take the conclusion of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you will be benefited.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Eugene Thoreau: You mentioned understanding, you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question. Can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding—not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts. What suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: You gave the example that if sometimes the man becomes bankrupt he goes to court and the judge says, "You must take this money you have left to your creditors and be satisfied," and he can escape in that way. But the one duty that a father has is getting the daughter married; that he cannot escape.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is called dāya, dāya-bhāk, legally he is bound. He may not get his son married, but the daughter must be married. This is father's duty.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the last, about three years ago or so, there is a new branch of study, it is called biomedical ethics, that deals with the symptom of death: How can one define when a person dies? What are the symptoms? and How can we judge that this man is dead? It is a great controversy in medical science.

Bali-mardana: They went to the Supreme Court to question when does death occur.

Prabhupāda: So what Supreme Court will decide? (laughter) What you nonsense judge know? He's also as good a rascal as the person who put the question.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is bogus.

Rāmeśvara: You judge by the results.

Prabhupāda: If you come to God consciousness, either through the Christian process or Chinese process or Indian process, it doesn't matter. But if you do not come to God consciousness, then it is all bogus.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: That you have to see. You have to judge whether you are going to get that result.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People... Whether he is coming to God consciousness or dog consciousness, two things are there. Consciousness means when he understands that "I am part and parcel of God. I am servant of God." Then it is all right. But if he is thinking that "I am servant of dog," then it is not proper way.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: If it is... Something that is judged by, say, the US government as criminal, would be still do it if it was for Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, we do not do anything which is harmful to the society. We do not do anything, not only to the human society. To the animal society, to the tree society, to the aquatic society, we do not do anything. We do not support the slaughterhouse, killing the animals. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to see every living entity on the same level. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are not cruel to anyone. Either he's a man or animal or tree or bird.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Or do you by judging him say this person is qualified.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because a devotee always consults Kṛṣṇa and He gives order.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Calcutta, all aristocratic buildings, they are made according to English pattern, London pattern. Just like our temple, it is made London pattern. It was designed by one high-court judge. (pause) The land acquisition at Māyāpur, no news?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: With a letter that "Prabhupāda says like this, that you print in the Hindi edition of Bhāgavata-darśana so that everyone will see, and will judge how it is done nicely."

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.

Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If you judge me I am wrong, I am judging you are wrong. So if you don't want me to do like this, I also don't want you, then where is the decision?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. He says very emphatically, vimṛśya, "Just judge, deliberately, consider it by full consideration. Then decide. You are quite at liberty to do whatever you like. I have spoken everything." This is your position, this is God's position. There is no force. God can force, but there is no force.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the hotel also they were charging six rupees. Means third-class hotel, not first class for cooking dāl, vegetables. Rice was, first-class rice, six rupees per month. Dāl, twelve annas for kg, flour, five annas for two and a half kgs. And from 1942, all of a sudden the price increased, artificially. Milk, two annas per kg. Now three rupees, four rupees. Ghee, first-class ghee, one rupee per kg. First-class ghee. (break) ...paying for the clerks thirty rupees per month. And head clerk, sixty rupees. Officers, hundred to two hundred rupees. High-court judges, four thousand rupees. High-court judges were highly paid.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44).

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Indian man (3): No, we have made, you must have seen our literature, Gītā as a text, but still people may not judge...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we should not depend on the people's acceptance only. We have to present Gītā as it is. Now everything is not accepted by everyone. Even if you make change, there is no guarantee that they will...

Indian man (3): No, no.

Prabhupāda: No, no I am not speaking to you. Anyone.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense. So it is not accident.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Morning Walk -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the main point. If you can criticize Śrīdhara Svāmī, then your criticism, why you take the criticism. Then others, you must be judged.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...that a high-court judge and he does not know what is God. How misfortunate he is. And he's speaking of God, "Surrender," all theoretical. They do not know what is surrender. If I say anybody that "Go to Dr. Patel and surrender unto him, and whatever he'll prescribe, you take it," but if he does not know what is Dr. Patel, then where he'll go and what to surrender? This is their position. They speak big, big words but do not know where to go. It is not?

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what is the position of the world? Apaṇḍita, ignorance. And such people are going on as learned scholars, as politicians and leaders and so on. So how there can be peace? If you bring different types of dogs, greyhound and bulldog and Indian dog and bring them—the "United Dog Association" (laughter)—so will there be peace? That is the position. I declared in Melbourne in a public meeting that this United Nation is the unity of barking dog. I told. It was published in the paper. They also criticized me, "The Swami has come to hound." (laughter) But that is actually the fact. If you become impartial judge, not on behalf of CID or anyone, then you see the actual.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, we have got judgment. You read those judgment, judges? We have got counterjudgements also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this is from Philadelphia, Judge Alfred Longo, U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania. The Philadelphia decree was typical and included the following points: "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is recognized as an authentic religion. To broadcast the glories of God to all people, members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society can perform saṅkīrtana, a missionary activity including chanting, dancing, and playing cymbals and drums, the dissemination of the word of God through preaching and reading aloud from religious literature, the distribution of religious literature, sanctified food and flowers to the public, and the solicitation and acceptance of contribution. In performing saṅkīrtana devotees can go wherever people gather: streets, libraries and other public places." So we also had decisions... Eventually we win almost all cases.

Prabhupāda: And we have got good support from the scholarly section by big, big professors. Even one priest, Mr. Cox, he is forming an association to support this movement in Harvard University. So we have got supporters also.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This we can bring a charge against them: "Prove that we wanted money."

Rāmeśvara: Yes, we are counter... We are fighting them. "...by writing to the District Attorney's"—those are the Justice Department Offices—"or contacting your local media." Then they give the addresses of people in New York and two addresses in Los Angeles who you should write to telling them about all the knowledge you have about all the abuses of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then it says, "You should commence action for a legal deprogramming. If other families of Hare Kṛṣṇa victims would go to court to get a legal conservatorship or guardianship with an intended writ of habeas corpus..." Now, what this means is you go to the court, and you say "My dear judge, my son is in Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has been brainwashed." And you have a paper from a psychiatrist that says, "Yes, he is definitely acting in a robotlike way." Then the court will say, "All right, you're the parent. So we give you legal guardianship over the son."

Prabhupāda: No, we can place a counter psychiatrist and counter... Just like Cox's statement.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: Everyone judges others from their own standard.

Prabhupāda: They're surprised, the neighboring people around our temple, "How do you live so comfortably? You have got so many cars and so nice house." But they are working hard like hogs and dogs and we are getting money without doing anything. They are envious.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why it is happening? Why we have given everything. Our father, mother, our home, our comforts, our ideas, stereotyped, our religion, culture—everything we have given up. So don't you see the power of chanting? You may think it is bad, but see the power. Similarly, these diseased person, if they chant, it has got power to bring him in the normal condition. The power is there. It is already proved. You say it is brainwash, but the power is there. Reaction is there. That's a fact. You are admitting. So now, whether this reaction is good or bad, that you cannot judge because you are bad. But impersonally, if you judge, you see how the power is, that we were drunkards, we were woman-hunter, we were meat-eaters—we have given up. You cannot give up even smoking cigarette. So just this is the power. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Why don't you take this side? The power is there. The electric power is there, either you use it for heater or for cooler. That is your na... But the power is there. Without this power, it cannot run on, either heater or cooler. Give them this recipe(?). "You have to admit. You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best answer to this opposition. And when the case is there, put all the books before the judge: "Now you read and give your judgment. Don't... You are learned lordship. Please read these books and give your judgment. We have got already judgment from the scholars." Present like that. "But still, because in your court it is presented, so we pray that you give your judgment after understanding our method of brainwash." That will make him flat.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The Bankim Babu, Bankim Chatterji, a famous novelist, he wrote a book, one comic book. Trial is going on, so the witness charged the... First of all the judge charged that "I see you are witness in every case." He was a professional. So, "You are speaking he is sixty years old for the last five years. You do not increase your age?" (laughing) "No, sir. A gentleman has one word. He does not change his word. And do not think me that I am either a lawyer or a prostitute or a newspaper editor."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: So this is a study published in Los Angeles Times on January 2nd. It says, "The year 1976 could mark the beginning of a new religious revival in America, judging from recent Gallop surveys of public opinion. The surveys found: 1) For the first time in nearly twenty years there was an increase in church attendance"—first time in twenty years—"with 42% of all adults in America attending church or synogogue in any typical week." Once a week 42% of the adult population, almost half. "2) The proportion of Americans who believe that religion is increasing its influence on American life has tripled since 1970." In other words the public thinks that religion is now influencing American life. The number of people who think like that has gone up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is due to this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious. So why do you check it? Bring your plate and our plate. Now judge. Which is better? You taste. Halavā, puri, samosa, kachori, vegetable—one plate; and boiled meat with salt and black pepper... So taste now which is better."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So let the judge read this opinion, read this book.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But again, that's just subjective. These people who encountered this luminous being, they did not feel that they were being judged. They just felt that he was their friend coming to help them. That is their description.

Prabhupāda: And how they can feel they are being judged? That very, very subtle thing, they cannot imagine it.

Hari-śauri: They get shown this review of their life, but they don't feel that they're being judged on their sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Then why different types of forms? Who is giving them different types of forms?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: No. Television could not show that. You can arrange in the laboratory such television, cheat others. And you have done it. But anyway, television or man or newspaper—you believe on others. You have not personally gone. So you believe some authority. We believe some authority. What is the difference. You take newspaper as authority. We take Vedic literature as authority. Where is the difference? You have personally not gone. How do you believe? The difference is that you believe somebody, we believe somebody. I asked this question to Professor Kotovsky, that "You believe Lenin; we believe Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference between philosophy?" Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is all right or Kṛṣṇa is all right. That is another thing. But the principle is there. "You believe in Lenin; we believe in Kṛṣṇa. The process is the same.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Bring all these books in the court. Sometimes in Calcutta, high-court judge was a big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than one thousand rupees per day, say sixty, seventy years ago. That one thousand means thirty times nowadays. Thirty thousand a day. He was very big lawyer. He was offered a judgeship in the... "No, no, no. I don't call for it." He was earning. The judges were getting at that time four thousand per month, and he was earning one thousand daily. So why should he give...? (coughs) So all the judges were friends. So in one case he brought so many books for argument. So the judges were friends, so he very mildly criticized, "Oh, Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) This was the... He addressed, "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law. No, no, you do not know what is law. I'll teach you today good lesson." He criticized him, "Mr. Ghosh, you have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." This is a famous argument. So they cannot deny that "Why you have brought so many books to bother me?" No. "You have to hear. It may take twelve years to hear, but you have to hear. This is law."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: Yes, but how can a psychologist judge a religion? That's not his field. They have to bring in scholars whose field is religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then those who are supporting us, our books, they are also.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So why not let me control your mind? I'll control your mind—the judge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? No, no. No, no. Let him come. Why? Call him.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They want to speak brainwash, and here is the university psychiatrist. He says, "No, it is not brainwash." So handle very carefully.

Brahmānanda: The judge that we have is very ...

Prabhupāda: Sober.

Brahmānanda: Well, his reputation is that he is the toughest judge in the state. The DA deliberately arranged for this judge. So it will be a little difficult.

Prabhupāda: So the toughest judge, does it mean he will be unjust also?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He cannot save himself, he is serving man. Our mission is very great. People have not understood yet. Now here is a chance in the court. Let it be prolonged, and let it be threadbare judged. There's a good chance. Let it continue. And in the mode of defense we explain everything. Our defense pleader must be very expert, take instruction from us. We give nice, and he'll place before the court. It will be published in the paper.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Nobody, no clerk is getting nine hundred rupees. Maybe officers, superintendent, they are getting. So actually people have not increased their income. That means they have become poor. Thirty rupees' clerk is very good position in those days. And sixty rupees' clerk, that is superintendent. The things were cheap. And two hundred rupees, officer, big income. The high-court judges were getting four thousand rupees in those days. What they are getting now? I don't think their salary has increased. Maybe five thousand, six thousand. The governor was getting ten thousand. High-court judges were getting four thousand. And secretaries were getting five hundred to one thousand.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Killed him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana. He couldn't stand that the boy was smoking marijuana. Then after killing him he went to the police and turned himself in. So he came before the judge, woman judge, and he said that "I could not help it. This boy is my son, and look what he was doing. It is abominable. I had to kill him." And the judge said, "Yes, I can understand your feelings. It was intolerable." And she let the man go without one day jail sentence. No reprimand even. So this is the thing that is starting to happen now, that they are lobbying in the Congress in the United States to pass laws that if someone is abnormal, then the parents should have the right to commit him to psychological treatments. Even the child may be fifty years old and the parent may be seventy years old, if the parents think that child is not sane, then they have the right to get the child committed. So this is being passed in a couple of states, and already in California...

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa's pastimes go on—this universe, that universe, that universe, that universe. In some universe He's present. In all universes present, that is called nitya-līlā. So those who are advanced, perfect devotees, first of all they are sent there and then, further trained up, they enter. Mām eti. Just like after passing the administration examination he's made one assistant of some magistrate, and then gradually he'll be promoted up to the high-court judge.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is rascal, cāparāsī, in the court. He'll think that "High-court judge is simply sitting. He's getting four thousand, and I am getting twelve rupees, although I am working hard day and night." That is cāparāsī made. It is not high-court judges. Cāparāsī will think like that, that "He's sitting simply from ten to two o'clock and doing nothing, simply sitting idly, and sometimes speaking something, and he's getting four thousand. And actually I am working hard day and night and getting twelve rupees?"

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: And then, if the person strikes out at the parent, they say, "Just see how crazy he's become!" Just like with Vasu-gopāla, he took a stick and hit his mother across the head and ran out shouting the name of Nṛsiṁha-deva as they were holding him captive, so he could run away. And so they said, "Just see how crazy he's become that he hit his own mother." Of course, the fact is they didn't mention they locked him in the bathroom for thirty hours just before. They kept him in a little bathroom. They locked the door, put him in there for thirty hours. All they mentioned is that he come out and hit her on the head with some stick. So then they say, "Just see! He's acting against his parents." So then the judge says, "Oh, what can I do? Naturally the father loves the son."

Prabhupāda: So why don't you quote from our śāstra that "He is not father." Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. Find out this verse.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: I don't see any way. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We go to the court and the judges always say...

Prabhupāda: But there are many fathers and mothers, they have... Mothers, they have appreciated our... So as far as possible, take... But because they are concerned, they have lost their children—they are against us. So you want that one... Tripurāri is sufficient?

Ādi-keśava: I think so. He is very good.

Prabhupāda: Or anyone else. You can suggest. You can take.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Municipality judge will not sanction. They're harassing our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still.

Prabhupāda: That man is there.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Dhīra means who is restful, not restless; dhīra, whose brain is cool, sober. Just like a high-court judge. He is sitting simply, and the cāparāsī, he is busy. The cāparāsī gets, say, two hundred rupees, and he gets five thousand rupees. But he is doing nothing, a dhīra, 'cause his importance is many, many times greater than the cāparāsī. So dhīra means sober. If we become sober, not restless, then it is possible to understand. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. There are two classes: dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra means always foolishly busy, and dhīra means sober. He's trying to understand what is God. That is dhīra.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. "Judge not others lest you be judged."

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are after the court, after the judges. We are not after anyone. We are after one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. For you, it is confirmed. We know what our duty is. For the last twelve years there were so many impediments. It did not stop us. There was so much harassment.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For Manipur business don't mistake. Don't use them. We form this five-man subcommittee and take the donation. Then you develop. (looking at newspaper) Whose photo is there?

Bhakti-caru: Mr. J. C. Shah, an agent... "Former Chief Justice, Mr. J. C. Shah, who is going to assist (indistinct) during the emergency. The former Supreme Court Judge is an agent into the affairs of..."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: That is your choice. That requires brain.

Young man (6): My choice is not to judge anybody, good or bad, or mad or insane.

Prabhupāda: Then you are lost.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No. Simply we presented our statement. I advised them that "You take my eighty-four books and present before the judge that 'Our statements are here. First of all you read these books. Then you give your judgment.' "

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have become very, very weak. No appetite. The brain is not working. Brain is working, but body is not allowing... Don't worry. Everyone will die, today or tomorrow. I am also old man. There is nothing to be regrettable. So as far as possible in my body, I am complete... Now it is up to Kṛṣṇa to judge... I have no objection.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is lawyer, judge.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should give a little background introduction of the court case and then this translation of the final verdict of the judge.

Prabhupāda: And "Translated by such and such judge." It will carry some weight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sardar Singh. Judge Sardar Singh.

Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: S-a-r-d-a-r.

Prabhupāda: Sardar.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can write, "Translated by a qualified judge."

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I, by... A very learned judge has translated it. Because there are so many technical... And the Indian...

Guest (3): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) For this.

Guest (3): He is the greatest guru of the age.

Devotees: Jaya!

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now you see to the field. They're all dry. But as soon as there will be rain in the village, all green. So the seeds are there, hippie seeds. As soon as there is some opportunity, come out, green: "Yes, I am beautiful. Come on." But in the court room they never addressed. Judge never asked that "Why you are shaven-headed?" Was there any question like that?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Another example you can give. Suppose a man is high-court judge, very... Now, his mother is feeding him, sitting down. And if the son says, "No, let me dress like a high-court judge, then I shall eat," will the mother like it? That is like...(?) "You become high-court judge and be satisfied."(?)

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is correct? Who will decide? I accuse you, you accuse me. But who is correct? Who will decide? That is śāstra. There is no question of argument. That is called pratiṣṭhā. You will never come to any conclusion by arguing. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Somebody must decide. Judge. And that is śāstra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. (Hindi) No sentimentalist. "Come on, scientist." Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra karile citte pābe... Vicāra... (Hindi) High-court judges. (Hindi) But so far, it is encouraging.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Phalena paricīyate: "By result." We are spreading Hindu culture throughout the whole world. He has to judge from this point of view, by the result. The persons, the people who are accustomed to kill cows, they are giving up meat-eating. Do you think it is ordinary thing? So he has... He must have good judgment before giving any adverse opinion. Engaged in horrible cow slaughter, they are becoming Vaiṣṇavas. Is it ordinary thing? Nārada did. What is the vyādha?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nārada Muni?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He converted that hunter, Mṛgāri. He was killing, but then he would not trample even on one ant.

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now. So he has to judge from this intelligence. We do not maintain any political view, what American government or Indian government... We want the whole people of the world, let them become human being. That is our movement. What is this? Simply killing business is going on. All governments should cooperate, pushing on this movement for humanity's sake.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like I have heard it, when Socrates was condemned to death, the judges inquired that "How Mr. Socrates wants to be entombed?" When the judges inquired Socrates, "How you want to be entombed?" Socrates: "First of all capture me. Then to the question of entomb me." What he said?

Abhirāma: That is a historical fact.

Prabhupāda: No. What is the wording?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I may not be an expert judge, but I have never seen, in my opinion, anyone who seemed to be this good.

Prabhupāda: No, if we have program to go to Māyāpur, he has got that distilled medicine in his dispensary.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He says, but I practically see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his medicine cannot... He also says that his medicine cannot be judged over a period of five or six days. He's not claiming...

Prabhupāda: I mean in case I do not increase.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I mean, just judging the symptoms, which is all that we can do, certain symptoms have certainly picked up. For instance, you're passing more urine, stool is coming naturally, and you're able to drink milk without getting any cough. These things were never there before.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will continue.