Jesus (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"Christ" |"Christ's" |"Jesus Christ" |"Jesus christ's" |"Jesus" |"Jesus's"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: So it is better. Just like one man said that "I have lost fifty thousand this year." His friend said, "You are still fortunate, because you had fifty thousand. But I have no fifty paisa even."

Indian man: So there is something. Here nothing.

Prabhupāda: "So you are so fortunate that you could suffer the loss of fifty thousand, but I have nothing to lose."

Indian man: But that is for a discriminating man. Here it is an ignorance, asuya, envy. When Acyutānanda Swami was addressing one man (he) said, "Why always have Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We can have Hare Christ also." Same answer as Your Holiness gave, he said, "Yes, yes, you can have it. Whoever says.... We don't say no. It is also possible, but degree, matter of degree," as Your Holiness the other day put it. And some chapters and words were read out to the people. They were convinced that same saṅkīrtana is also sanctioned in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: We have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu or you? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). So we have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a tuberculosis hospital.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: You can define anything. That does not mean that your definition is perfect. Actually we have to.... Who...? Suppose Hindu. So who is not accepting Bhagavad-gītā? But where is...? In the Bhagavad-gītā where is the mention of "Hindu"? Hm? Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the father of all living entities." So why do they say that this is Hindusim?

Acyutānanda: "Well, all religions say that they are the best. Jesus Christ says, 'Everyone who comes to me, they will get the grace of God.' So the same thing. But still they are Christians and you are Hindus."

Prabhupāda: So this cannot stay in the court. Kṛṣṇa's instruction is not for the Hindus. Nowhere it is mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The word "Hindu" doesn't appear in the Vedas anywhere.

Acyutānanda: Then why do you use in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyāsī, but you are not Indian.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Acyutānanda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, "I am for all," but there is Christianity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God's representative, He is for everyone. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). That is the definition of sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ karunikaḥ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (SB 3.25.21). A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person. Suhrdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaiṣṇava, he is well-wisher for everyone. (break) ...suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.

Harikeśa: So many others have preached Hinduism but have no result.

Prabhupāda: No result. Why they should become Hindu?

Acyutānanda: That sign is there, "Swami Vivekananda, the Hindu monk."

Prabhupāda: But who cares for Rāmakrishna Mission? Hindu monk, but who cares for the Rāmakrishna Mission? For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda. They advertise that "We have made all Americans..." But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that's all.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Did Christ said that "Father, they did not know..."?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do. Forgive them for they know not..."

Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...how to respect food grain. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone should understand, "This food grain is supplied by Kṛṣṇa for our living. How can I disrespect?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we say, prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda eating." Prasāda-sevā. Prasāda should be accepted as Kṛṣṇa. And our eating means to serve Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa has given. Eat them. Yes. That's all."

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...they should know the others also will feel. If my throat is cut, I feel, and "Why shall I cut the throat of another, poor animal?" This is learned man. And this rascal, maintaining slaughterhouse, and learned man? And they cannot understand. And big, big priests, they'll defend: "Oh, this 'Thou shalt not kill' means it is meant for the men, not for the ani..." They'll put arguments. Christ says clearly, "Thou shall not kill" and they will defend.

Trivikrama: Even abortion they are defending.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Even abortion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is going on as education, as saintly person, priest. These things are going on in the name of religion, in the name of education. How much fallen this world is, just try to understand. As soon as they are caught up, they'll defend only by arguments, counter-arguments.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: When they took Rādhā-Dāmodara down to Mexico, all the Catholics thought it was Virgin Mary and Jesus, and they all came to offer their obeisances. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Which way I shall go? This way?

Devotee (2): This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Lokanātha: Last time there was a big crowd to hear you, Prabhupāda—the Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: And you mentioned they were clapping for a long, long time after hearing you speak.

Prabhupāda: Not long, long time, but... Madhudviṣa, you remember that Catholic...

Madhudviṣa: Yes, they asked you about St. Francis, about him chanting to the dogs and the trees and the birds. And you said, "That is actually God-realization. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu."

Prabhupāda: And when they asked about Christ, and "He's our guru."

Madhudviṣa: You started your main lecture off there, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name." And then you went on to explain about the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct) are here. Why is it? Some wood. (break) ...grow foodgrains, simple living.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...becomes humble. God is for the humble and meek. In Bible also it is stated. And because everyone is trying to become God, how he becomes humble?

Dr. Patel: I think Christ taught humility by his own action.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even Vaiṣṇava...

Dr. Patel: All Vaiṣṇava.... I mean Vaiṣṇava ācāryas suffered extremely than that.

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja Gosvāmī, who has written this immortal Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he is presenting himself, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: (CC Adi 5.205) "I am lower than the worms in the stool." Just see. He is not hypocrite. He is feeling like that. "Oh, what is my value?

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I have not been able to find out any difference between the Bhāgavata-dharma and the Christianity. I have studied so thoroughly both of them. Actually Jesus Christ has taught nothing but Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. Still, the Christians, when they came here, these Portuguese, converted these people to Christians. They are fanatics. They are not...

Prabhupāda: No, they are doing.... They are doing in their own countries. In France the Roman Catholics and the Protestants, they are fighting and cutting each other's head. And still going on, it is. This is fanaticism.

Indian man: Political fanaticism.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Yes, and said Sītā was a prostitute. I don't know.... And still, the government could, I mean, support them. It's too much of a joke.

Prabhupāda: But these.... You cannot.... Even on religious principle or so-called religion, you cannot make equality. The rogues will always remain, either Hindu, Muslim.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): ...interesting. I see Elder Forester(?) in myself. We feel that we're called to God through a living prophet ourselves. And our feeling is in our own hearts we feel that we have a living feeling in what we call a testimony of Christ. And we feel that he is our savior and that he did atone for the sins of the world. And we were wondering what your feelings were about this.

Prabhupāda: Our feeling is direct, carrying the orders of God. The direct orders are there, and we have to carry. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), favorably to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God.

Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa means God.

Prabhupāda: So favorably. What God says, "You do it"—we have to do.

Guest (2): Great. Okay, supposing when you die, how will there.... Will there be another man of your sort who people would look to, like these here?

Prabhupāda: Many. Anyone who will carry out the order, he'll be prominent.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (3): I have a question. Do you know much of Mormonism?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (3): No. Could I just share one experience, and I'd like your feeling on this. This is one thing that, the reason that we come throughout the world, and that is that we believe that in the year 1820 that there was a young man, Joseph Smith, who was confused about religion. And in this confused state he sought the Bible, and he read James 1:5, and the inspiration was to go seek God and ask Him in prayer. And in his prayer he had an experience where God the father and His son Jesus Christ appeared to him. Now, see this is what we base our religion about, is that a young man saw God and was visited by Him and His son Jesus Christ, and through him They used him as an instrument in restoring His true church. Now that's our testimony, and we believe this with all of our heart. We feel that it's built upon the spirit and that it's through prayer and study that we've found this. Now, what's your feeling about that?

Prabhupāda: No, if he has seen God, then God has given him some message.

Guest (3): Right.

Prabhupāda: What is that message?

Guest (4): We believe that the message that God gave him was that the true church was not on the earth, and we believe that through Joseph Smith the true gospel of Jesus Christ was once again restored to the earth with all its power, with all its authority, and with the holy priesthood.

Prabhupāda: So Jesus Christ is authorized.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (4): Yes, Jesus Christ...

Prabhupāda: So what is the order of Jesus Christ?

Guest (4): We believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right, but what Jesus Christ says?

Devotee (4): What does Jesus Christ say? What is Jesus Christ saying? What are his instructions?

Guest (3): Well, Jesus Christ, we believe that when he lived as a mortal man, he organized the church, and the people followed him...

Prabhupāda: What is the instruction?

Guest (3): The instructions to Joseph Smith was, well, in a ten-year period of time, from 1820 to 1830 many things happened to Joseph Smith. One thing was that he was visited by an angel called Moronai, who lived fourteen hundred years earlier in the Americas, and he was a prophet, and he wrote a book and sealed it away, and it was written on gold plates. Joseph Smith translated this ancient work of Egyptian hieroglyphics into English, and it was called the Book of Mormon after a great prophet.

Prabhupāda: So what is the message?

Guest (3): Well, the message is that the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the kingdom of God.

Prabhupāda: So what is the church of Jesus Christ?

Guest (3): Well, Jesus Christ's church, that's simply it.

Prabhupāda: What is that? What does he say, that "You do this.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (4): Oh. There's many Commandments in the church. We believe that Jesus Christ commanded Joseph Smith to restore the church.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the Commandments?

Guest (4): This is one of them, that the church should be run by a prophet and twelve apostles. We believe in what is called the word of wisdom. This is abstaining.... This is much like your...

Prabhupāda: Church. Church means.... Suppose.... There is no specific message that "The church should be conducted on this principle"? Is there any such message?

Guest (3): I think that the real thing is people have to accept Christ as their savior and make his atonement effective. See, when he made his atonement...

Prabhupāda: What about his Commandments?

Guest (3): Well, his Commandments are.... We believe that Christ gave them to Moses as a...

Prabhupāda: So what are the Commandments? You simply say, "It was given to him, it was given to him, it was given..."

Guest (3): The Ten Commandments?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (3): Well, see, this is the great thing of the atonement. See, when Christ suffered the sins of the world on Gethsemane...

Prabhupāda: So why for your sin Christ should suffer?

Guest (3): Christ suffered for my sins.

Prabhupāda: Yes, why?

Guest (3): Well, because he loved us and he was the only begotten son of God.

Prabhupāda: That means you'll go on committing sins and Christ will suffer?

Guest (3): No, see Christ only forgives when you repent. See what I mean? See, this is the thing I want to say...

Prabhupāda: But this has become a business, that I commit sin and repent. "We believe, I repent, and again I commit sin." Do you think it is very good business?

Guest (3): Well, see this is the thing. Christianity has made it a business. So what we're saying is we...

Prabhupāda: That means they are not Christians.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Majority is not the calculation. Minority. If one person carries out the order of Christ, then he is Christian.

Guest (3): Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise they are not Christians.

Guest (3): That's right. But I just wanted to say one thing...

Prabhupāda: Our principle is that if one person carries out the order of God, he is actually the prophet. If he does not carry out—simply by dress he is prophet—it is useless.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But how the prophet can disobey the original orders of God or Christ?

Guest (4): How can a prophet disobey? We don't.... A prophet doesn't disobey. We believe that the prophet at the head of our church, Spencer W. Kimble, speaks with God...

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Guest (3): And he conveys His messages on to us as church members and on to the rest of the world.

Prabhupāda: My point is.... Just like the two points here: chastity and nonviolence. But this is not being carried out.

Guest (3): Well, we agree.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the prophet and where is the followers?

Guest (3): Well, see, the prophet is teaching the people about this and teaching them to live it.

Prabhupāda: That means people are not obeying the prophet.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We must follow; then it is all right. We don't follow, and still we rubberstamp, "I am Christian. I am this. I am that." This is the disease.

Guest (3): Would you agree that Christ is the greatest master of all?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We accept him as our guru.

Guest (3): What is the...

Prabhupāda: Guru means prophet, yes.

Guest (3): What about a savior?

Prabhupāda: Savior? Who saves the followers from the danger of materialistic way of life, which means transmigration of the soul from one body to another.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Why different?

Guest (3): ...concept of Christ because we...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Christ said that "You accept me as the Supreme." So why the people do not accept him as the Su...?

Guest (3): Well, we accept him, but, see, he had to be a savior...

Prabhupāda: But you accept him in this way, that "Let me commit all kinds of nonsense, and Christ will suffer."

Guest (3): No, no. We don't.... See, we believe...

Prabhupāda: Do the Christians not think like that?

Guru-kṛpā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They think like that.

Guru-kṛpā: "Christ has died for our sins," but they continue to sin.

Guest (3): Yes, many people do. But see, what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that I...

Prabhupāda: You are.... Individually it is all right. But people think like that, that "Christ has taken contract..."

Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.

Prabhupāda: "...that whatever nonsense we do, he will suffer, and let us do it."

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: "...that whatever nonsense we do, he will suffer, and let us do it."

Guest (3): We will have to suffer if we do not repent. See, we have a scripture that...

Prabhupāda: And they say Christ will suffer.

Guest (3): He has already suffered.

Prabhupāda: But they say, still they will suffer. Therefore Christian religion is...

Guest (3): He has suffered...

Prabhupāda: The Christian people say like that, that "We cannot become pious. We.... Let us go on doing all nonsense, and Christ will suffer." Is that very good?

Guest (3): I agree with you, see. I really do. But what I'm saying is I believe that we're not all perfect, and we're working for perfection.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that what is the difficulty to become perfect?

Guest (3): Well, we have to learn and...

Prabhupāda: That means we are nonsense. If there is no difficulty to become perfect and still we remain imperfect, that means we are nonsense.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? Christ's picture is there. Suppose we have got our picture, Kṛṣṇa. So all right, don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. But you have got picture of Christ, and you can see that he is being crucified. The cross is your symbol.

Guest (4): We don't worship the dead Christ.

Prabhupāda: You may not, but Christians.... The Christians, they put the cross, a reminder that "Christ suffered for us." This is the cross. So we became sinful, and the Lord, he suffered for us. We should stop this sinful activity. That is sanity. But "Christ will suffer, he'll be repeatedly crucified, and we shall go on with our nonsense activity." Is that religion?

Guest (3): Well, I agree with you there.

Prabhupāda: So that is the point.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You may have, but we are talking on the principle that if we are so base and fallen down that we go on committing sinful life and "Christ will be crucified; I'll be saved," that way is said, what kind of religion? "One should continually suffer for my sin, and I am free to act sinfully." Is that religion?

Guest (3): Well, we don't believe that Christ continues to suffer.

Prabhupāda: No, but the Christians do that. They are maintaining.... Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and they are maintaining thousands of killing house, and still they are passing on as Christian.

Guest (3): Well, they're wrong.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (3): Well, we are. That's what we're here for.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You are not Christian. Don't call yourself as Christian. You are persistently disobeying, beginning..." Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christians began killing Christ, crucifying Christ. And that is going on still, in large scale, and they are still Christian. The Pope is eating meat and.... I do not wish to say so many things. These are going on, and still, they are Christians. What can I say?

Guest (3): Do you believe that...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe or not believe. We are talking of fact.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guest (2): I think that's right, and I think that many people I know personally are what you say Kṛṣṇa conscious. They think of God and Christ twenty-four hours a day too.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is wanted.

Guest (2): And...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. We obey the orders of Christ—we think of always—then we are perfect. Either Christ, the son of God, or God, Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. God and son of God, they are not different.

Guest (3): We were wondering if we could give you a personal gift that means a lot to us. We've got a Book of Mormon with us, and I don't know if you have one.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (3): But we feel that it's a scripture written by ancient people who lived in the South and Central American continents from the years 600 B.C. to A.D. 400. And we thought that this was kind of a special opportunity, and we didn't know if you had one. And we were wondering if we could leave you one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can leave.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You don't bring your feeling. I mean to say, you must bring scriptural order. How do you glorify flesh and bone?

Guest (2): Well, Christ brought that about in the resurrection, when he was resurrected.

Prabhupāda: How do you say? Practically say that how you glorify a lump of flesh and piece of bone? That is my question. What is the glorification of a lump of flesh and a piece of bone?

Guest (2): God can do it. That's all I can say.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. Can?

Guest (2): I cannot.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Guest (2): But God can.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. In India also, although India's... They will want to crush down this movement. So this will be up to Him. Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's movement, the same thing. And Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed by Kaṁsa class of men and his company, the demons. So it will be there; it is already there. Don't be disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Kṛṣṇa's favor is there, because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's movement is not different, identical. So as Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed, many, many years before He appeared... At eighth child, if the mother produces child yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be attempted to be killed. So there may be attempt like that. And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. So they may kill me also.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.

Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...come up to us on saṅkīrtana, and they are smoking a cigarette, and they say, "Do you accept Jesus Christ?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: They say, "You cannot be successful unless you accept Jesus Christ like us." But they were smoking.

Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say, "Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! (laughter) Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."

Devotee (2): They like to keep the, Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that's very...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you see all the pictures in the Church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show.

Devotee (2): They don't have any...

Prabhupāda: They do not have picture, just like we show Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Such rotten things. That is going on in religion. They love, they love means they want to see their lovable suffering so much, you see. Only then (indistinct). This, we want to see our lovable object that He is enjoying. Young boy, (indistinct) gopīs, and nice night, playing flute, He's enjoying. That we want to see. And they want to see that lovable he is suffering. How they can see it, if there is love?

Devotee (2): If they loved him they would not be able to stand to look at that.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He got the first prize. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.

Devotee (5): That's the ah..... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother standing before the cross.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed. It is not possible. (break) Lesson by natures' study. Generally.... Generally means that is natural if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete. Not that the poor father. (break) ...plainly declare, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw. When I came to your country first, I had no center, no.... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). To remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Kṛṣṇa? (inaudible) ...and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection. Shall I not feel grateful? Is it not my duty? What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa gives everything, and "No, no, I don't believe in God. God is dead." All rascals. Who denies God, he is the lowest rascal, immediately.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Rāmeśvara: Disobeying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the.... "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not be an adulterer." Those are the big ones.

Rāmeśvara: "Covet thy neighbor's property, steal. Dishonor the mother and father, the cow, the earth, God."

Prabhupāda: Cows?

Rāmeśvara: Well, there's one of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father." But the mother is one of the cows, the earth. I mean the earth is the mother, the cow is the mother.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no eyes to see that actually we are following strictly the teachings of Jesus.

Rāmeśvara: And they always say that Jesus ate fish. They always use that as an argument.

Prabhupāda: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish, therefore I shall eat my son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Hari-śauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he drank wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrifice. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you...

Prabhupāda: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drunkard, exactly. And you can also, when you can do all the things that he did, then you can also drink wine.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus was crucified, I shall crucify you. Come on. You're so pious that now you prepare to be crucified.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you forgive me for doing it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You take my sins and be crucified. Then I shall know that you are real (unclear). Take all my sins and I crucify you.

Rāmeśvara: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, you wrote that Vaiṣṇavas like Vāsudeva Datta, they're even greater than Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Did I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You said that Jesus only gave shelter to his few followers, but Vāsudeva Datta prayed that the whole sinful activities of the whole universe...

Rāmeśvara: "Be on me, I'll take them."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said, I think it said, he was a thousand times greater. You wrote that in the purport.

Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that you suffer for me. No. I suffer for my. It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to jail," he'll not go. (break) ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Confusing must be. How you can understand the subtle laws of God? You have dull brain, with cow dung. (laughs) You cannot understand.

Arcita: So according to the Christians, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Jesus Christ was born without contact of any material father. He was divinely placed in the womb of Mary.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That's all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: "I am son of God." Then, what is the argument?

Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are successful if they follow the education. Just like Christ, he's speaking of kingdom of God. So if you follow Christ, there is hope that you go to kingdom of God. But if you don't follow, you simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," then it is useless.

Richard: But there are other...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are of the same type.

Richard: Yes, but do they have any value as far as you are concerned?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have value.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: But is the point that the Catholic Church makes the only point to be made?

Prabhupāda: Not Catholic. I mean to say, any church original, authoritatively, that is genuine. If you deviate from that, then you cannot claim to that school.

Rāmeśvara: It's an example that if the Catholic Church is presenting the teachings of Jesus as it is, and then later on other churches deviate a little, then to deviate from the teachings of Jesus is bad, and to stick strictly to the teachings of Jesus is the only way, in Christianity. That's the idea.

Richard: Yes, but the goal is similar in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: The goal cannot be similar. If you deviate, the goal is different.

Richard: No, no.... The.... Okay, the goal generally is the same.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Goal is one, so if you deviate, then you go away from the goal.

Richard: Right, but the goal seems to me, as I have studied Christianity...

Prabhupāda: What is the goal?

Richard: The goal of Christianity is to make a better life here on earth for the followers of Christ and after death.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is our preaching also.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Yes, I think you are talking about specific...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is.... Take Christian religion. So going to the church, it is practicing how to establish relationship with Christ and God. So after death, if he's perfect, he goes back to home, back to Godhead.

Richard: Um hm, right.

Prabhupāda: So this is practice. If one is interested in going back to home, back to Godhead, then this is the only way.

Richard: Okay, let me just say something, and then, you know, like, you can take it however you want. It seems to me that there all through life, men, all through history, men have been more or less striving for this same general goal-happiness here and here...

Prabhupāda: No, no, same general goal.... You must speak.... If you say same general goal, everyone says, "This is also general goal, this is also general goal." You must specifically mention what is that.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he has started a very big movement among Christians. His philosophy is that the mission of Jesus Christ was to have sex life so that there will be perfect children.

Prabhupāda: Just see what nonsense he is.

Rāmeśvara: And they crucified him before he was married.

Prabhupāda: Even Christ.... Eh?

Rāmeśvara: His philosophy is that Jesus Christ was crucified before he got himself married and had some children—"Therefore I am Jesus Christ again, coming to make children. I am the new Messiaḥ."

Prabhupāda: This rascal is.... And foolish persons are accepting him. How.... No, they are doing that. They are sanctioning homosex, sanctioning abortion. They've lost, Christianity and all.... (japa) This is Beverly Hills? No. Rancho Park.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: ...was the president of Ann Arbor temple. I told him what you were thinking. You think you really want to go to Ann Arbor?

Prabhupāda: Not necessary. (indistinct) (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...God, Christ, they believe that Christ is God, some Christians.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Many different understandings.

Satsvarūpa: Some say he's a perfect man. Some say a son of God or he's actually God. (break) ...a spirit within.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...Holy Ghost is like Brahman and Paramātmā. All-pervading God and God within the heart speaking.

Satsvarūpa: And Jesus Christ is the only son of the Lord, and he's the Lord also at the same time.

Hari-śauri: And they say he has a material body, and he is God incarnated into flesh.

Prabhupāda: We also say.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: But he's servant.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. And we also say only by the mercy of the guru. But they say only through Jesus. (break) ...so many similarities. Sometimes a Christian asks, "What is unique about your religion? Why should I...? It seems to be the same as what we have."

Hari-śauri: The unique thing is that we're actually able to follow teachings, whereas they are not.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I lived in one Christian monastery, Śrīla Prabhupāda, before, with monks. There is no bliss. They don't have kīrtana and prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: I think there are many good signs, however—your own movement. And we have..., I noticed you use the beads. We have a priest, Father Peyton, who gathers thousands to recite the rosary. Mostly young people. There are other movements that gather young people, which require a discipline. And perhaps since we think more in terms of the individual rather than the group, and the individual's decision, we possibly have forgotten that group discipline is very important. Therefore the attraction of your own movement and many others like that.... Within the Roman Catholics, there is now a very hopeful sign of mostly young people who are in what is called the charismatic movement, seeking to learn more of the Holy Spirit, seeking to change their lives for the better-however, at the same time, staying involved in the world. And it could be said that they seek to carry on the redemptive work of Jesus that he wishes done in the world, since he would be the key to our, to our advancement in the world. Our advancement, I say, and I'm not speaking of myself as a young man. But I think many young people in this charismatic movement, this is within Protestants and Catholics and others, I would say. There's a great emphasis among Jewish young people in the schools, to the development of the Jewish religion.

Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Can you explain? Young..., I have been several times inquired that why young people coming in this movement? What is the reason?

Jayādvaita: The specific qualification of our movement is that Śrīla Prabhupāda is giving information very scientifically in understanding God as the Supreme Person. Understanding not just that God is great, but understanding how God is great. Generally, we understand God is great, but how God is great, what His name is, what His form is, what His world is, there's no specific information.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Many of these expressions that you are reading sound very similar to what we call the "Wisdom Literature" of the Old Testament of our Bible, of Syrac and Ecclesiastics and Ecclesiasticus, and also, of course, some of the sayings of Jesus are very close to what you're saying here. Jesus said "Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all these other things will be added besides." That's the first-class man, who's constantly working toward the kingdom. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the meek" and so on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If there is a first class, set a first-class man on the head of the society, then everything will be done properly.

Kern: In the Mass today Jesus said "You must be perfected as your heavenly father is perfect."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.

Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.

Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and there will be no starvation.

Scheverman: It's an intellectual approach. I think our approach would be, we would be concerned with a person-to-person assistance. That is the way, our way, that Jesus has taught us. He said, "Feed the hungry and harbor the harborless and visit the imprisoned."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you have got enough food grains.... Just like in our headquarter in Bengal, we are giving food daily, at least one thousand men.

Scheverman: So you are feeding the hungry at your headquarters in (sic:) London. You do utilize then the direct approach as well.

Prabhupāda: No, our process is that everyone who is hungry, come and take your food. But our program is going on, but feeding the poor is automatically there. If anyone comes to our temple, even here, anyone comes and take prasāda.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: It is not Eastern, Western. It is the life. Just like to become peaceful, is it Eastern or Western? Peaceful is peaceful. Why do you bring Eastern?

Scheverman: No, but the way in which, the method in which..., is it Eastern? This is not to say it is bad; it is good too. There are many traditions....

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, it we look for Eastern, Western, then it become sectarian. But it is for all. If you teach a person to become peaceful, it is not the question of Eastern and Western. It is meant for everyone.

Scheverman: Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers; they shall see God." Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's right. That's right. So why should you say that it is Eastern or Western?

Scheverman: Well your methodology, much of your personal vocabulary, your garb, is from the East.

Prabhupāda: It is not personal. It may be said that in Eastern countries or in India, these things are very much appreciated and developed. That is another thing. But the thing as it is, it is neither Eastern or Western.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The desirer of wealth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In need of money, "God, I am so poor. Kindly give me some money." So he's approached God. That is his piety. Although God should not be asked. Pure devotion means God should not be bothered. Simply we shall render service. "God is great. I am His servant. So my duty is to render service without any profit." The profit is there. To be accepted as God's servant, that is the greatest profit.

Scheverman: That's what Jesus said: "Behold the lilies of the field, they neither toil nor spin, and yet not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all these things—what you shall eat, what you shall drink—shall be added to you besides."

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Gentlemen class. Without first-class man, what is the use of second-class, third-class men. They will ever remain in the darkness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Christians have a tendency to disbelieve that man can lead man back to God. They think that Christ, or God comes, and then, like this. It doesn't matter what quality of men they are.

Prabhupāda: God comes, when God says, "Come to the kingdom of God," that is God comes (indistinct).

Hariśauri: No, he's saying that God can take you there, but then after God's...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians themselves, throughout the centuries, they have no faith that someone can be so much exalted that they can lead human society. In other words, the Christians have no faith that actually someone can become God conscious.

Devotee: They say Christ is God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say everyone is sinful; therefore what is the use?

Prabhupāda: Everyone sinful, therefore.... Christ is not sinful, therefore somebody may be sinful.

Hariśauri: But their whole philosophy is that no one can be sinless except Christ.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: He is also against our movement?

Kīrtanānanda: Well, I wouldn't say..., he never says anything about our movement. But they are equating us with him. The public is sometimes equating us with him and these other rascals. He claims that Jesus Christ never lived to fulfill his mission, which was to establish the perfect family. They killed him before he got married. So he has come, and he has all these wives. At least he used to, all his, whenever any of his disciples would get married, first he would have their wife.

Prabhupāda: And they're doing that? (laughs)

Kīrtanānanda: People cannot distinguish between what is true and what is bogus. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sophistication. (break) ...reminds me of a place in Germany. Heidelburg.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: It is very fortunate they are not crucifying you. Putting into jail, but they crucified Lord Jesus Christ, they were so intelligent. Because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was talking of God, therefore he was crucified.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Now they only take our saṅkīrtana collection.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Now they are just taking our collection. Today two of my boys, they were arrested just north of here. So as a fine they have taken their saṅkīrtana collection.

Prabhupāda: Robbing. In the name of law, robbing.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). Make everything clear.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is off the record, but one may ask if someone like Christ or Moses was not mentioned amongst the mahājanas, present some sort of religion...

Prabhupāda: No, mahājana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahājana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that. Mahājana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahājana? Mahājana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahājana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahājana. And that means paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. He's mahājana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you follow that. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Then you are following the mahājana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahājana, Svāyambhu. Svāyambhu means Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. So our, this sampradāya, Gauḍīya sampradāya, is Brahma-sampradāya. And Svāyambhu, Nārada. Nārada is also in the brahma-sampradāya. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva, he is also mahājana.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are very good, you are following your religious principle very strictly, adherently. That's all right. But what about your love of God? "Oh, that I do not know." So śāstra says, śrama eva hi... It is simply waste of time, and simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: To any rascal. Does any rascal know that God is within? And He's witnessing all criminalities. Does he accept that? Then the yogis should not have illicit connection with their disciples. Do they believe God is...? It is simply business for earning money and getting woman. They have no other... Valueless. Therefore the government has said, "Fake." What is that? Actually that is a fact. So many rascals are coming, especially in America. Government, they are seeing, "What is this?" "Transcendental meditation and do whatever nonsense you like." Guru Maharajaji: "No use of books." Practically we are saving the whole world. What can be done? There are so many rascals. Let us do it sincerely. And if we also become victimized, then it will be stopped. Āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā bhakti. Anyone who says God is speaking with, immediately take him as rascal. God is so cheap that He will talk with rascals. He wants to talk, but he cannot hear. Lord Jesus advised him, "Don't steal." Why does he steal? If God is not advising from within, then why he's going at night when everyone's asleep. God is not dictating that "Don't steal"? But he will not care for God's instruction. Then it is whose fault? If I say that "You don't do it" and still you do it, then?

Hari-śauri: Rascal.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: This man, Sun Yung Moon, claims to be the Messiaḥ, the Jesus Christ revived.

Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: The succession was broken. So similarly, Christ says something. So if that commandment is received by succession, then it goes nicely. But if you break it according to your necessity, then where is the authority?

Darby: None. No use if you have the rules there, the law is there, to be passed, and someone forgets them, it's just sinful.

Prabhupāda: No, they are passing resolution. Suppose there is a law of the state, ordinary, say, "Keep to the right," and in this village all members, they assemble together and pass a resolution that "No, keep to the left." Will it be accepted? Even they pass a resolution, the state will not accept it. Unless it is... Of course, there should be no change. But, anything spoken by God or His son or His representative, that cannot be changed. It is not that Christ said two thousand years ago, "Thou shall not kill," now it can be changed. That is rascaldom. They are doing that. If you do that, then, as it is said here, then it becomes lost. Then there is no meaning. If we take the instruction of God and His representative as temporary, then he is not representative, He is not God. Whatever is spoken by God and His representative, that is eternal. You cannot change by your whims. So that is going on. We..., I do not wish to discuss very much, but that is actually going on. As people they, by votes in the Parliament, they pass any nonsense thing, so they want to do that in the case of Bible also. Then where is the authority of Bible? If Christ says that "Thou shall not kill," and if people, say ten thousand people in a meeting pass resolution, "No, this is wrong," then where is the authority of Bible? Then you become authority.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere; therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti loko mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The Christians claim that Christ ate meat and therefore there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): The Christians say that Christ ate meat himself, that there's nothing wrong with it.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.

Hari-śauri: They say fish.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?

Devotee (2): No, it's demoniac by common sense if you maintain large slaughterhouses, it's completely irreligious.

Prabhupāda: When Christ said "Thou shalt not kill," does it mean that he wanted to maintain slaughterhouse? What is the answer, hm?

Devotee (1): No.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall kill father, mother. You kill vegetables, therefore I shall kill my father and mother. Is that reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: I have a different concept of (indistinct), if I may give: When I'll be half as good as Christ, maybe I can be permitted to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that only the human has a soul, therefore it's wrong to kill humans. But other animals you can kill because there is no soul. That is their argument.

Devotee (3): They'll ask what should be killed and what shouldn't be killed for eating? Where do we draw the line?

Prabhupāda: No, you, we are speaking go-rakṣya. That is not point of view of killing. There are other animals. We do not say that you stop. If you want to eat some meat, at least don't kill cow. You can kill other insignificant animals which has no importance. Cow has got special importance because it supplies milk, and milk is very essential food that is... From the childhood, a child lives on milk, and there are many saintly persons, they also live by drinking milk. Milk is very important item in the human society, and it supplies all vitamins. Even if you say that "Meat-eating is essential for me," you can eat other animals, but don't kill cows. That is our proposal.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Ah,

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ

pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto

'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ

(CC Madhya 17.133)

This is the realization of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, when you understand that nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, this name, Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of chanting. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. Full representation or full Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto 'bhinnatvāt, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's anything. Just like we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. If you think this is a statue of Kṛṣṇa, it is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you are not worshiping properly. He is Kṛṣṇa. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-mati, these are instructions. So anyway, we may be in the imperfect stage of devotional service, but if you follow the instruction, then gradually you come to the perfectional stage. There is no hopelessness. Continue. It is not that immediately one becomes perfect. But if you continue with the process, then you'll become perfect.

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was twenty-seven years old and I learned about God through Jesus. I was twenty-seven. For thirty-five years I thought I had a relation with... (break) ...and through your knowledge that you are writing. I'm a servant of the government right now, and will it take more love of Kṛṣṇa for me to be devotee, or what...?

Prabhupāda: No, you can become a devotee even if you are a government servant. It does not hamper.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Guest (1): May I ask a question, Prabhupāda? Something that I've wondered about, perhaps you could explain it briefly. I believe that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God, so don't get me wrong, but since you mentioned Christ, was he an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa? Was Jesus Christ sent here by Kṛṣṇa from...

Prabhupāda: He says that he is son of God; that is accepted.

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa was Christ's father then.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa is father, and Christ is the son.

Guest (1): I understand it now. I just wondered.

Prabhupāda: He said "I am son of God." Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is, yes.

Guest (1): I understand. It all fits together now.

Indian man (7): Swamiji, how could you convince these Christian people that Christ was the son of God, or Kṛṣṇa was the...

Prabhupāda: Christ says himself that "I am the son of God." (laughter)

Indian man (7): Many Christians, they do not...

Prabhupāda: Many Christians also... There are so many Christian editions. That is another thing.

Bali-mardana: We have accepted.

Prabhupāda: But all these Christians, they all my students, they are coming from Christian. How they accept Kṛṣṇa as the father?

Guest (1): Prabhupāda, did Christ return to the spiritual planets then, when he left the earth, to be with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He is coming from spiritual planets. He is authorized representative of Kṛṣṇa, we accept him as śaktyāveśa-avatāra. So I was invited in some priestly meeting in Melbourne, they asked me the question, "What is your opinion of Christ?" So I said "He's our guru." (laughter) Actually, we accept him as our guru. He's preaching God's message; he's Vaiṣṇava. Anyone who accepts God, he's Vaiṣṇava. He was explaining kingdom of God, God. So according to time, circumstances, audience... Now we can just imagine what kind of people he had to deal with, that his commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Then understand how much they were accustomed to killing. So what kind of men they were? And not only that, in spite of hearing his instruction "Thou shall not kill," they killed him first. So what kind of men they were, just imagine. He said, "Thou shall not kill," and they decided, "We shall kill you first." So this class of men he had to deal with.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Guest (1): What would happen to the people that killed Christ on the cross? Very bad, it seems.

Prabhupāda: Christ cannot be killed, but they killed themselves.

Devotee (3): So we read that Christ said "I and my father are one," so they say therefore Christ is Kṛṣṇa, so therefore Kṛṣṇa can't be God.

Prabhupāda: "One" means in quality. And in the Vedic literature we say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That means we are one in quality. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. So now we are material-bhūtaḥ, jīva-bhūtaḥ. When we realize that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul, I am part and parcel of God," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Then bhakti begins.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

Then he enters into Vaikuṇṭha, after Brahman realization. So Lord Buddha's finished?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No.

Prabhupāda: Go on, finish it.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: I spoke about this cosmic manifestation, where is Vaikuṇṭha, where is... This is a church?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Second Church of Christ Scientists.

Hari-śauri: Was it a Catholic church or..., where you went?

Rāmeśvara: The Library Party said that everywhere they go in India, they find that you went there first with your first three volumes of Bhāgavatam. Especially in New Delhi, they said. There's one institute which had fifty sets of your original first canto, so now they ordered fifty complete sets to complete the books they had. They said that all the major colleges had your original Bhāgavatams in India, first edition. So then they could understand that you were distributing books yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa? How about Christ Jesus?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How about Hare Kṛṣṇa as father?

Passerby: Father? His father? 'Fraid not, fella. You'll meet your father.

Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.

Prabhupāda: This is Amsterdam? Cross street? No.

Devotee: Seventy-fifth Street.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, this is Amsterdam.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere I see that poster.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Patel: Yes.

Jñānagamya: You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupāda, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher-Muhammad, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya's mercy.

Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: Even Jesus never taught that. These are the wrong followers.

Prabhupāda: Jesus is different thing than that. I mean to say generally, generally, the people they want to exploit others.

Indian Doctor: It is the greed of the human being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the mission should be, human being should be meant for doing good to others. Para-upakāra. That para-upakāra spirit is gone on account of losing our own culture. Otherwise, India's culture is para-upakāra. India was open, "Come everyone, learn." Lord Jesus Christ also came here. All the Chinese, learned scholars, they used to come. The history is there. And India was open. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Indian culture. Even the enemy comes, "Yes, please come, you stay." But later on, they took advantage: "Oh, they are very liberal, enter there." And still we are liberal. "Please come here, stay here and take prasādam free, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Open to everyone. I shall manage anyway, I shall travel, still I shall lay down my life and bring money. Come here, stay. Still we are liberal. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). First of all, make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then do good to others.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is morality. "You commit immorality as much as you like. You simply admit it. Then it's right" (indistinct) This is their propaganda. They do not want to stop immorality. "You do, and don't hide it—you admit." But persons are so shameless that they will continually do, and they have no shamefulness to hide even. That is the Christian theory, that "Our religion is so... Maybe we are unable to remain without any sin. Christ will excuse us." Is it not? This is going on. This is.

Saurabha: They're also criticized a lot there. They have been criticized a lot there locally. People, they think they are CIA.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Us?

Saurabha: No. The MRA. Because they have big meetings twice a year only.

Prabhupāda: The MRA, they are Americans?

Saurabha: Yes. Most are Europeans, Americans.

Prabhupāda: This movement was started by President Eisenhower with the help of a Christian priest.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "He's not ordinary man. Don't say that He's beggar,' he said. (laughs) Nobody follows a beggar like that, that is it. After all he was king, he had some brain. (laughs) So he wanted to brainwash, "Don't think of Him very seriously. A beggar. Some people, sentimental." "No, don't say like that. A beggar is never followed by so many men."

Haṁsadūta: The same thing happened to Jesus. Because so many people would follow him the government became very...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That what do you call it? Crucified?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: He was becoming very popular. So...

Haṁsadūta: And at least according to Bible, it appeared that the Jewish priests, they went to the governor or the chief man at that time, and they demanded that he has to do something about this man.

Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) better, I was seeing that. And every page Kṛṣṇa. There is Kṛṣṇa. Every page, there is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly that happened in Germany. I told them. "It is very good that Hare Kṛṣṇa." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughing) We are known as Kṛṣṇas. They call us Kṛṣṇas. You put yourselves "Kṛṣṇians." They are Christians and we are Kṛṣṇians. And actually from Kṛṣṇian, the Christian has come. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, ah, Kristo, there is Greek word and Kristo, is broken spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India we say one is, one name say is Kṛṣṇa, at least in Bengali we say Kṛṣṭa. Kṛṣṭa. This Kṛṣṭa word is come Kṛṣṇa. And from Kṛṣṭa, Christ has come. This is original root, Kṛṣṇa. So we have to fight, here is a chance for fighting, so why they're afraid?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we just have to work hard on getting this altogether.

Prabhupāda: You have to fight. Keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We should not be afraid to fight. And it is, there are Indians... It is not the Indians (indistinct). Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement. Other so-called yogis swamis, they may be rascal but this is not the rascaldom.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Dr. Kneupper: Not all of them.

Prabhupāda: 99%, they are maintaining all big, big slaughterhouse, all Christians. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What kind of Christian he is? Disobedience to the order of Christ? And still he is Christian? These things are going on. Then again party, this ism, that ism, that ism. First of all, all of them are disobeying the Ten Commandments, and then there are parties. So which one you'll accept?

Dr. Kneupper: There's no such diversity of interpretation of the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from Bhagavad-gītā, I am talking of Christianity. How you can disobey the orders of Christ and you become Christian at the same time?

Dr. Kneupper: There's always people falling short of what their...

Prabhupāda: That's it. That means they are all useless. If you are Christian, how you can defy the order of Christ? You will disobey the orders of Christ; still you are Christian? Just like in India they are all denying the Vedic culture, and still they are Hindu? All these rascals. So therefore, I say, the whole world is full of rascals. If the Christians accept this word, that Lord says, "Thou shall not kill." Why shall we kill? Welcome. Never mind whether Christian or Hindu. Welcome. Similarly, in India, if they accept Bhagavad-gītā, welcome. But everyone is rascal, mūḍha. Nobody cares for God, nobody cares for God's messenger. All rascals. This is the position. They are creating God. They are creating religion. They are creating sect. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no need of rezoning because we are Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa community. So wherever we live we worship Kṛṣṇa. It is not a public show, it is our own private worshiping Deity. I can keep Deity in my home. Just like Christian Deity, Mary, Jesus Christ, in the room. There is no objection.

Devotee: I don't think there's any objection to that but according to Guṇagrahi (indistinct-mic noise) ...problem, San Diego, like the government there doesn't approve too much of them and each time they try to buy a nice piece of land, you know, somehow...

Prabhupāda: That's why I say, "Don't call it temple."

Devotee: Don't call it temple.

Prabhupāda: No, community project.

Devotee: Community project.

Prabhupāda: Project. That's all.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: He says that Jesus never carried out what he intended to do...

Prabhupāda: "I am doing."

Hari-śauri: So he's going to come and do it.

Prabhupāda: So that is capturing the sentiment. There is no philosophy. And who cares for Jesus? First of all they must care for Jesus. So he's... He has got any books?

Jagadīśa: I don't think so. Maybe some pamphlets.

Hari-śauri: No one's got any literature like yours. At the most, they can produce a few pamphlets. They can't even produce one volume the size of the Bhāgavatam, what to speak of eighty. And if they could, no one would read them anyway.

Prabhupāda: No, on the whole there is now attempt to stop this movement. (break) ...but in... We have made so many court cases. Now, only loss we are feeling now—in some airports they have stopped our book selling. So formerly also, they were stopped and again revived.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Not unless this gets cleared up.

Prabhupāda: Because it is being discussed about me. They say, "Old man is behind this movement."

Hari-śauri: Even in Australia now they're having the same thing, kidnapping and everything. It's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: That means they are feeling the weight. It is spreading.

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): Christo is also the Spanish and Portuguese word for Christ.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Devotee (1): Christ.

Prabhupāda: Christ. Just see. So write article on this.

Devotee (1): "Krishnian."

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this Christo came. The Greek word. And the Greek got from India, Kṛṣṇa. This is the history. Christian means Krishnian, godly. And Christo, so far I know, the Greek meaning is "decorated," "love." That indicates to Kṛṣṇa. If there is some scholar he can find out that Christian means Krishnian originally. (reads:) "How the soul transmigrates? The process is very subtle.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No name. When I say, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, this is not name. Adhokṣaja means "who is beyond your sense perception."

Guest (5): It can be Allah, Christ, even Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you must know what is meaning of God. That's all. His name... Just like water. You say, "water," he says, pāni, he says, autuk (?). So water is water. Similarly, you must know what is God. Name does not matter. But Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name, Kṛṣṇa, according to Sanskrit, all-attractive. The God must be all-attractive; otherwise how He is God? That is the perfect name. Now, if you want to give another name we have no objection. There are hundreds and thousands of names, whatever you like. But it must be God's name. You must understand what is God. Then it is perfect. (aside:) Get on this light. It is scientific. It is not a religious sentiment. Why they should manufacture God? God is God. Gold is gold. And God definition is there in the Vedic literature.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But all Christians, if they truly are... I mean Hindus, that Christ...

Prabhupāda: No, either he become Hindus. That does not mean the Hindus are perfect. We do not mean that. Even if he becomes Hindu, what is the benefit? No benefit.

Dr. Patel: No. Even he becomes a Christian, there is no benefit.

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (2): Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, he's a person. His father must be person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If son of God, if the son has form, how the father hasn't got form? What do you say? I'm asking you. This English boy. How the father can be formless? Christ says that he's the son of God. Is it not?

Englishman: He said he was, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's a person. So how the father is imperson? What kind of father?

Dr. Patel: Sir, instead of calling person, we say he's an individual. Person means this body.

Prabhupāda: Person is individual.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You were... Two thousand years ago, Christ, he was born in Jewish family, he was horrified by seeing animal sacrifices in the synagogue. Therefore his first commandment is, "Thou shall not kill." He was so horrified. Why he has given this commandment? He was so much horrified. What is this? Therefore he gave up the Jewish religion. He started his own. This is the history. And he first commanded, "Thou shall not kill."

Dr. Patel: And the Jews were killing the pigeons in the temple.

Prabhupāda: They are very expert in killing.

Dr. Patel: I don't know how the religiosity could even...

Prabhupāda: So where is religion?

Dr. Patel: They have misinterpreted religion.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata has criticized all so-called religion.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have admitted. But Christianity has fallen. Here is the real religious system.

Dr. Patel: They have fallen into the trap. They have forgotten Christ's teachings. (break) What about me... You'll get up on horse? That is enlightenment... (break)

Prabhupāda: Above your and our.

Dr. Patel: That's right. That is... All religious scriptures are above, undoubtedly.(?) It's meant for the humanity in general. And the Christianity is meant for humanity. Christ died for the humanity, not for a particular race... (break)

Prabhupāda: Woman's nature is the same everywhere. In spite of your women being so elevated, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, "You don't trust them." Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. That means nature is the same.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God must be equal to everyone.

Dr. Patel: You are right. With that extreme faith, Jesus took to the cross. Huh? (break)

Prabhupāda: That is the greatness of the movement. (break)

Dr. Patel: We will be meeting with all people in the whole world. And you will be...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the oldest.

Dr. Patel: (laughing) Keep in my hand and walk. And I would say, sir, that you also should not take bath in cold water.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't take. I... Since 1970, 1966, '67, I am not taking cold bath. Before that, even in America I was taking twice cold water bath.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Even Jesus said so.

Prabhupāda: Christ said that if getting everything one loses his own soul... What is that?

Trivikrama: "What is the value?"

Prabhupāda: "What is the value?"

Rāmeśvara: They would say that we are ignoring this world and retreating from it.

Prabhupāda: We must! We must! You rascal! You do not know the science.

Trivikrama: They have their retreats and monasteries, Christians also.

Prabhupāda: We must. That is the science. That is... You do not know, because your tail is cut you want others also to cut his tail.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So even in your own country, the priest talks crazily. We should reply that. Why do you go to India? In your country, your countrymen take it.

Rāmeśvara: Jesus was crucified in his own country.

Dr. Patel: By his own men.

Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali proverb (Bengali). In a village, if a saintly person comes from outside, he is invited. And if a saintly person there is in the village, nobody cares for him.

Trivikrama: Yes. The Bible says the same.

Prabhupāda: (laughs, repeats saying)

Dr. Patel: This will create some difficulty for your movement?

Prabhupāda: We don't care for it. We will go on. Caravan will pass. Let the dogs bark.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: He wants to know, then, why didn't Jesus Christ say all these things about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Jesus may be fool. That doesn't mean everyone should be fool.

Rāmeśvara: They believe Jesus came to this world to teach people about God.

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you. Therefore he... Even ordinary moral principles, you could not, what to speak of other things." Actually that is the fact. Actually that is the fact. He had to deal with rascals and fools. Is that civilization, that first of all argue, "Thou shall not kill"? That means you were all rascals engaged in killing business. Is that civilized men? Why he said like that? Is that very good philosophy? Mean they were so low class that they had to be stopped first of all, these sinful activities. That also, they could not. This is their position. And for the last two thousand years they could not. Such nice brain. They could not understand even one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are proud of becoming Christian, rascals. "You do not know what is Christianity, what is Jesus Christ. You are all rascals." Tell them like that.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Christ is described as son of God, but where is the father? That means you are so rascal, you do not care to understand the father. And we are presenting the father, the father of Christ. And you are condemning. You do not know who is the father of Christ.

Rāmeśvara: His argument was that if God wanted Himself to be known as Kṛṣṇa, He would have...

Prabhupāda: But you do not know the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." That is God. That is God.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. I tried to explain. But he said Kṛṣṇa means that person who appeared in India five thousand years ago. That is Kṛṣṇa. So he said if God is Kṛṣṇa, then there would be some evidence in the Bible, but there is no evidence.

Prabhupāda: There is ev... There is evidence. Because... But you are so fool that you do not inquire, "If the Christ is son of God, who is God?" They never inquires. Why did you not inquire?

Rāmeśvara: He said that God spoke to Moses. God did not tell Moses that He was Kṛṣṇa. He told Moses that He is Jehovah.

Prabhupāda: Did Christ say that "Jehovah is my father"?

Rāmeśvara: That makes it very clear.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: I can't remember ever seeing... Jesus never used a name. He only spoke about "my father."

Prabhupāda: And who is that father? Why did you not...? So here is the father. You should be obliged to us that we are bringing...

Hari-śauri: There are so many names anyway.

Prabhupāda: Then why not Kṛṣṇa?

Hari-śauri: Yes, exactly. Just like Allah means "the great one," so Kṛṣṇa means "the all-attractive one." It's the same God.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that the only person who can't understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the killer of the cow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization. Therefore Jesus Christ first of all requested you "Don't kill." That is also brainwash, cleanse your brain. But you could not take the brainwash. Your brain is congested with so much dirty things that you could not take the instruction of Jesus Christ, and you claim to be Christian.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there is no religion.

Rāmeśvara: The Christian will say, "The Jew has no answer." And the Christian, he will say, "Religion means to accept Jesus Christ as your savior."

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: "Because he came to earth as the son of God. He died for your sins."

Prabhupāda: Therefore religion means what is given by God, either directly or through His son or through His servant. That is religion. So if you do not know who is God and what He has given, then where is your religion? Religion means the law given by God. So you should know who is God and what law He has given. Then you have religion. You say you do not know what is God.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that He cannot come as fish, He cannot...?

Rāmeśvara: Because if He wanted us to believe in these things He would have told us on Mount Sinai, and He would have told us through Jesus Christ. Jesus said "I am the only way..."

Prabhupāda: But that I have already answered, that...

Rāmeśvara: Jesus Christ says, "I am the only way."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But Jesus Christ did not say to you because you are rascal. You cannot follow even his one instruction. That is the answer. It is not the foolishness of Jesus Christ. Because you are so rascal, you cannot understand it. Therefore he avoided you rascals. Because whatever he has said, you cannot follow. So what you will understand? Therefore he stopped speaking.

Jagadīśa: They killed him after three years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are so rascal that his personal instruction is...

Rāmeśvara: Three years?

Jagadīśa: Three years' preaching and they killed him.

Prabhupāda: Why he will waste his time to rascals like you? And I understand that Jesus Christ said that "I have to say many thing, but I did not say..." like that.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That is your instruction also. Jehovah says that you shall not worship any other God. So, Jesus Christ says also that you shall not worship. So that is the way of preaching. That is required.

Jagadīśa: That is also required in the military.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That also has been described by Professor Stillson? "Charismastic"? What is...?

Jagadīśa: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: I think whatever was there was either packed in the basket or the cooker, and there was no sugar. So, I'll have to... If you want, I can have one of these men go and find some.

Prabhupāda: Sugar? Where you'll find?

Rāmeśvara: But the... Pradyumna has some sweet mango.

Prabhupāda: No.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: There's a record of a Christian deprogrammed, Peter himself. Christ prophesied that "Before the cock crows you'll deny me three times," and he did. He was deprogrammed just by his association.

Rāmeśvara: That was Peter?

Jagadīśa: Yes. (train going again)

Hari-śauri: His own... One of his twelve apostles put him on the cross, Judas Iscariat. He was one of the original twelve. He betrayed Jesus for some money and put him on the cross, killed him. He killed him.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is the history of your religion. You kill Jesus Christ; you deprive him.

Hari-śauri: There's still that point that when a person comes, he's coming voluntarily. We have no chance to deprive him of sleep or food, because he's living outside. He's not living inside.

Rāmeśvara: They say that when a man comes to join us, immediately we take away all his money and all his possessions, so in this way we are depriving him of his property.

Prabhupāda: That is individual surrender. We have not rendered that way. He surrendered individually.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Read book.

Rāmeśvara: ...read book. Anyway, there was some controversy, and they had this one cartoon, I sent it, outside the place where Lord Jesus was born, and the father of Jesus is seeing outside. There are three Hare Kṛṣṇas playing mṛdaṅga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But dressed as Santa Claus. And he is saying, "Would you believe Hare Kṛṣṇa?" So that actually is very good for us, that cartoon. They are putting us with Jesus. For them to do that is very good for us.

Hari-śauri: (indistinct)

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Somehow, whatever we do now, they find some fault and then they write about it in the newspaper, and millions of people read about us.

Prabhupāda: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. Any way, if something is done in this connection, it becomes an asset.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Indian: From libraries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissan. (aside:) You can give me little, little sample... (break) ...for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what... He's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ says, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act... They possesses the soul. Then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: But they know... Why they accept Lord Jesus Christ? But they do not believe even Jesus Christ.

Gargamuni: No, they don't believe.

Rāmeśvara: It's like you say. Jesus said "Thou shall not kill," and they started off by killing him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And ever since then they have continued their killing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their intelligence is so sharp. (laughs) This is the basic principle of their civilization.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Nanda-kumāra: They found some books now that... Theologians consider that they are books of the Bible that were omitted by the early Christian Church to keep the people in ignorance where Jesus states very clearly, "No meat."

Rāmeśvara: What book is that?

Nanda-kumāra: The Essene Gospel of John the Baptist. It was translated from the original Aramaic scrolls. And it's in the Vatican library, but the Vatican doesn't...

Gargamuni: I've met some vegetarian Christians. I met them in Los Angeles when I was there.

Nanda-kumāra: But in this... Jesus stated very strong. It is very strongly vegetarian.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It says in the Acts of the Apostles, actually, they stopped the Gentiles from taking anything with blood. They were told "No blood."

Gargamuni: I have met vegetarian Christians, and they say, "Thou shall not kill," so they don't kill anything, at least any animal.

Rāmeśvara: Very small minority.

Gargamuni: Yes. They're a very small group.

Rāmeśvara: No, they are killing their own babies in defiance of the Pope.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And eating the fetus. So civilized, advanced, scientists. (laughs) Just see. Ludicrous.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: But at least if you look at what's there, in most of the Bibles anyway, the beginnings of Christ's movement are just like our own movement. All these men gave up all their material possessions. They went out and preached. And that was his general teaching too, that they should not worry for anything because God is supplying to everyone, even the birds and beasts. So why should they worry? Just go out and preach. That was his basic teaching to his twelve apostles.

Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?

Rāmeśvara: Actually there is some good lessons to learn from them, because they were persecuted, they were killed by the government even. But they didn't give up their faith. They remained very faithful, the early Christians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Along with all, that, though, they're allowed to please their senses in any way that they like. So their teaching doesn't really have much benefit for anyone. They're still doing all kinds of sinful activity. Now their idea is that if you accept Jesus, it means that you can carry on doing as many sinful activities as you like, but Jesus is going to take all the sinful reaction.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. "He died for us, so why should we suffer?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is the contractor. They say that "Our religion is very good. If you simply have faith in Jesus Christ, we can do anything."

Hari-śauri: "Let Christ continue suffering, and we'll enjoy."

Prabhupāda: In Aurobindo āśrama the same thing. Aurobindo said that "You simply think of me. Then you will be pure."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But there is another way they can understand also. Just like in Christianity, they all believe Jesus was killed and then immediately he was alive again. So in the same way...

Hari-śauri: After three days.

Rāmeśvara: ...Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Resurrection.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. So in the same way Kṛṣṇa also was appearing again during...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa...

Rāmeśvara: Lord Caitanya's līlā is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is never dead. Just like sun. Sun is never out of the sky. It is in my eyes I see that sun is gone. Formerly these rascals were believing sun is dead at night. The Christians believed like that. Is it not? Some of the Christians believed that at night, sun is dead. And the world is square, flat. This is their knowledge. Lord Buddha, he rejected Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. We were being taught that "You cannot deny the authority of Vedas," and Lord Buddha, he denied the authority of Vedas. But the devotees, they are worshiping: keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "Lord Buddha, we can understand your pastime. Still, you are Lord. I offer my obeisances unto you." So the devotees can understand.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Christ also went, came to India.

Rāmeśvara: That is not believed in the West.

Prabhupāda: That is to keep their prestigious position.

Gargamuni: Many scholars... There's a place in Kashmir where they say his samādhi is there.

Rāmeśvara: There is a period of years which no one can account for.

Prabhupāda: No, even from Christian religion it is proved how uncivilized were the Westerners. "Thou shall not kill." Now, how uncivilized they were. Even they take it the human killing, it is meant, not animal killing. So what kind of society it is?

Hari-śauri: Don't kill human beings.

Rāmeśvara: Well, that's accepted, that it's very uncivilized in those times.

Prabhupāda: And the result was that Christ was killed first. Who advised not to kill, they were so civilized that "Kill him first." So this is the proof. Why he said, "Thou shall not kill"? That means the society was so ravaged that they're killing one another.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: In any event, they all report encountering another, a luminous being, when they leave their body. Every one of them said the same thing. So if they're Christians, it describes that they were thinking that "This must be Jesus coming to save me."

Prabhupāda: That may they think. There is no harm.

Rāmeśvara: They describe the light. "It was beautiful and it was so bright, so radiant, but it did not hurt my eyes. It is not any kind of light you can describe on earth. I actually did not see a person within the light, yet it has a special identity. It definitely does. It was asking questions. It is a light of perfect understanding..."

Prabhupāda: The light is the rays. The person is there.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Even their own religion started like that. Jesus's..., one of his best disciples turned him in.

Gurukṛpā: Actually they are helping us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious by giving us an opportunity to preach about Kṛṣṇa.

Gargamuni: It makes us serve with great..., more enthusiasm, even the demons.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of electricity. Electricity. Some thunder. That is electricity. The word is used, apratihatā. Pratihata means checking. When your devotional service will make progress in spite of checking, that is pure devotion. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. And that is pure devotion. I was attacked by heart attack thrice. While on the ship, twice.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified. What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...

Hari-śauri: That they wanted to do that.

Prabhupāda: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. He only preached for three years too.

Prabhupāda: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He could not preach even but still, in three years what he did is wonderful.

Hari-śauri: Yes, He's world famous for the last two thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, not joke. Unless he's God representative, how he can be so famous? That we know. I told in Melbourne, "What is your idea of Jesus Christ?" And "He's our guru," I told. You remember that?

Hari-śauri: I don't... That was at one of those...

Prabhupāda: The priest meeting.

Hari-śauri: Yes. I didn't attend that. I wasn't there.

Prabhupāda: They asked me. And, "He's our guru." They very much appreciated. He is preaching God's consciousness, so he is our guru, spiritual master. That's a fact. Don't take him otherwise. He's guru.

Hari-śauri: It's just his nonsense followers.

Prabhupāda: Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Such person, great personality, why shall think of him as ordinary human being? That is nārakī-buddhi.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is preaching God's glories, he is guru. So how can I decry him? He is guru. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Unless one is guru how he can preach about God?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Actually we have a much better appreciation of Jesus than anyone.

Prabhupāda: More yes. Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Because we actually understand the value of the guru.

Prabhupāda: We are the greatest Christian. We follow his instruction; we accept him as guru.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Without following the guru's instructions, there's no question of appreciating who he is or his work.

Prabhupāda: And this word, Jesus, the Christ, it is not?

Hari-śauri: Well, originally they say it was "Jesus of the Christ."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Christ means...

Hari-śauri: God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: So they... Originally it was "Jesus of the Christ," meaning he was son of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Christ is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Same word.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Kṛṣṇa. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes. What he was teaching is exactly in accord with what we're doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I was reading some of his instructions, what he was giving to his original disciples. And he gave them examples, that "The birds, they are not worrying about their food. God is supplying. So you should not worry for your food. You should simply go out and preach."

Prabhupāda: He said like that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He said, "So what should you worry if you go out and preach? Do you think that God will not give to you?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Most of my disciples they are coming from the Christian group. They can reform. Chanting is also recommended in the Bible, the glories of the Lord. I do not know why these rascals, Protestant... That means... The Protestant means last class. Why they should protest against Jesus law? Protestant means that. They protested. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: I'm not sure about... I don't know much about the history of Protestants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That King John, who started this Protestant movement? Some king in England.

Hari-śauri: Yes, it was started like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was forbidden not to divorce his wife.

Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar. Coming from very big, big family all family, they practice it. This is not begging. This is to learn how to become humble and meek. And Christ said, "To the humble and meek, God is available." It is not begging. You do not know what is this culture. You have your own culture, devil's culture, to kill even one's own child. How you'll understand what is this culture? Am I right or wrong?

Satsvarūpa: You're right.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this daṇḍa. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it. "Because we know this is the only welfare activity to the human society. You make talk, madmen. We don't care for it. To be imprisoned with this material body—the greatest suffering... You are trying to mitigate suffering, temporary, this way and that, but you do not know how." That you can show from the Bhagavad... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). "This is real suffering. Why the eternal soul should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease? We are seeing to this. You are thinking that 'If I can place myself in a very high skyscraper building and motorcar,' your business is finished. We are not so fool. We know that 'Any moment, I shall be kicked out of the skyscraper building and motorcar by the laws of nature.' " That's a fact. But fools cannot understand. They think, "This is my permanent..." That is not permanent, but you are permanent. "Where is my permanent situation?"—we are seeking after that. So we are not so fools. We are taking that "I am permanent. Why I should be encapped or entangled in this nonpermanent." This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: By this agitation our position will be improved. Prahlāda Mahārāja was suppressed in so many means. What was loss on his part? He improved more and more, more and more. If Christ were not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. The history was that there were many... At that time there many, many cults, and that was just another cult during the Roman Empire, and then that cult became very, very dominant.

Prabhupāda: Because he was persecuted, his cult became so spread.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, that "You are not killing? You are cruel." (laughs) Just see. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." That is cruel. How can you pull on this civilization? But this is their religion. So what kind of persons they are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's some misunderstanding. When I came from New York, there was one Christian minister. He was going to Bangalore, India, but I was all the way from New York to Delhi with him. We sat together side by side, and since he was minister, he was interested in what I was doing, so we started talking about philosophy and the science of the self. So I asked that "Mostly we are told that in Christianity, many people don't believe that there is soul in animals." He said same thing, and he was a minister. In animals, plants...

Prabhupāda: Big animal. He's a big animal. Animals... He is also animal but big animal. That is what he... That I have already said, small animals. Śva-viḍ... What is that? viḍ-varā... Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's a puruṣa. He's a very exalted person, but he's a paśu, animal, because he does not know anything about spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So your answer to his question, "Do you consider the message of Jesus Christ to be universal?" You say yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because he says, "Thou shalt not kill."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But none of them are following.

Prabhupāda: No, all bogus. And going on in the name of Christian.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he says he lived in our temples, but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith, but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples.

Prabhupāda: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. "Judge not others lest you be judged."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His second question is, "Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, not only of Israel but of every man's sins, does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra, and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible...?" First of all he says isn't that minimizing him to say that he's an avatāra?

Prabhupāda: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Did Jesus die on the cross to redeem all the sins of the world?"

Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?

Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. "Our religion is very good." What is that? "We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rascals.

Prabhupāda: How rascaldom it is! Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Nāma-aparādha. "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be." It is like that. That means "I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of giving me quotations from...? We are talking about practical things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don't understand. They say, "We believe in Jesus," but they don't follow his teachings.

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he quotes, "And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." In other words... "And shall he send..." There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.

Prabhupāda: What is the harm if he comes again?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically that is the whole basis of the Christians' faith is they are awaiting the day when Christ will come.

Prabhupāda: For the time being, you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, if you don't follow what he said, then even if he comes he won't take you. He says if that happens, if Christ comes back, what will be the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? Nasty question.

Prabhupāda: That you shall see when he comes.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No difference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he read a passage of the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa written by Vyāsadeva three thousand years before Christ foretelling Jesus Christ's presence in the Himalayas in 78 of the Christian era, and his meeting with King Shalamoyi.(?) Are there any other prophecies in the Bhaviṣya Mahā-Purāṇa or in any other scriptures telling more accurately Jesus Christ's birthday?

Prabhupāda: Everything is accurate there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that particular Purāṇa? He says he is sorry to take your very precious time, and he prays that you answer all of his questions, which you have done. So he thanks you very much for reading this letter and for your expected help. He asks one last question in a P.S., which I think is practically an important question. He says, "To practically follow Jesus Christ for a sincere searcher of the truth who does not recognize and accept the external manifestations of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is it possible to attain love of God?" No.

Prabhupāda: Love of God means God's mercy. If God is pleased, He can do anything. So that pleasure of God can be awakened by love. This is called in Sanskrit kṛpā-siddhi. Perfection out of affection. Out of mercy.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Very nice. Actually, about two years ago there was a propaganda in the West that if you are afraid of sinning, then it means that you don't have full faith in Jesus Christ. Because he has promised to accept your sinful reactions. So therefore if you sin, then it means that you have full faith that he will accept the reaction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said those people should be hanged immediately.

Prabhupāda: When the Bible has said, that after death one goes to hell or heaven? If Jesus Christ has taken a contract, then where is the question of going to hell?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that is for people who don't sign the contract with him. That is what they say. As long as you say that you accept Jesus, then you are going to heaven for sure.

Prabhupāda: So then Jesus Christ accepted sinful reaction of a certain class of men. He is not universal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only those who accept him.

Girirāja: That means the Christians.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And anyone who was born before Jesus, he is doomed.

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their great philosophy.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: So this point was an embarrassment for the Christian theologians, because people would say, "Well, what about great philosophers like Socrates and Plato who lived before Jesus? They are also damned to suffer in hell?" So this question was very perplexing. It was hard for them to condemn that they are all burning in hell. I mean, actually they have no philosophy at all.

Prabhupāda: All nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why we rejected our so-called religious heritage. We could see that there was no substance to it. And the leaders were just like normal debauchees of any other groups. They weren't spiritual. I used to remember seeing the priests and the rabbis getting drunk, smoking cigarettes, talking nonsense just like everybody else. There was no difference except for the dress.

Prabhupāda: This is everywhere. In India also.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then how this science should be stopped for others? It is universal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just as that Christian asked you, is Lord Jesus's teachings universal. The Christians, they say that Jesus's teachings are universal. So that means that they must be true.

Prabhupāda: And they accept yes, and we say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jesus said "Thou shalt not kill." This applies to all human beings. So if they say that about Jesus's teachings, why not about dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)? They should say.

Prabhupāda: The whole human society is being put into ignorance. How we can tolerate? We know the things. How we can hide it? Jñāna-khala. One who knows the thing, how he can hide it? He is called jñāna-khala. He has got the knowledge but he will not give it to anyone else.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And therefore we challenge them, "Who is a Christian?" It is not a single one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, if one studies the life of Jesus, we live more like that than any so-called Christian.

Prabhupāda: So we have got very nice diamond. Try to sell. But if there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvass. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamond.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just wondering about this, that we may be traveling around, and even here Your Divine Grace is not so fit for going to all of the ceremonies. Maybe you would like it if we were to keep a little Deity here.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In your apartment.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't need...

Prabhupāda: Hm. The Deity is there, fixed-up. That's all right. I was keeping Deity with me, but a constant change of this servant.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... That is the principle. This is, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). "You have to take all the sinful reactions." This is the principle, that Kṛṣṇa is God. He can nullify everything. But I am not God. When it is overloaded, I have to suffer. This is the principle that the Christian idea that Christ takes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The trouble with the Christians is that they never relieved Christ. They go on sinning. That's not love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The principle is that the spiritual master takes all the resultant sinful action, but the disciple also says that "Now, stop it. Otherwise my spiritual master..." That is gentleman. And "Now use that thing, go on taking our sinful reaction. We will go on with our own business."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not loving at all. That is taking advantage.

Prabhupāda: That is cheating.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The same cheating. And he is not liberated because he continues cheating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frankly, though, we can see by Christianity that some defect is there. Either it's probably not there on the part of Jesus. He could have given them a way to purify themself, but they...

Prabhupāda: One chance, that "You have accepted me, I take your all sinful reactions." But these rascals continue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His point was that "Now you must continue to follow my instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why ten commandments? And these rascals took it that "I shall not follow any of you. You take our sinful reaction. It is very good religion."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And therefore they say no one is more merciful than Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We admit. Guru Mahārāja said śaktyāveśa-avatāra, powerful incarnation. Therefore whenever there was question of Jesus, I never disrespected Jesus. Never criticized him, because I know that he is powerful representative of God. We took it from Guru Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Guru Mahārāja would sometimes...

Prabhupāda: He said that Christ is śaktyāveśa-avatāra, as Buddha. How he can be otherwise? He sacrificed everything for God. He cannot be ordinary man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Hm. That Melbourne meeting, it was... You were present?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I heard about it. With the monks, I think.

Prabhupāda: They very much appreciated. Because they saw that I have got full respect for Christ and his real disciples. And actually we have. Why not? He said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are interpreting killing. This is going on. And they are Christians. Just see how much cheating. It is clearly written, "Thou shalt not kill." And their only business is killing, and still, they are Christians. How much cheating it is. Whatever little success is in our movement, the cause is I have not tried to cheat. Honestly, what I knew, I heard it from Guru Mahārāja and scripture, I took it. There was no cheating.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): The younger generation, as you are presenting, of India and the developing countries it's okay. In some way or another they have known the existence of God, whether they call Him Christ or someone. We can convince them later. But the very fact that they have denied the acceptance, that requires a special treatment. So you should make something different (indistinct). I find it very difficult to go to...

Prabhupāda: And one thing, very commonsense reason...

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.

Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.

Girirāja: Actually their leader...

Prabhupāda: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that "We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved." Pāpa-buddhiḥ, nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Great offenders.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Indian Astronomer: Great estimation, all your books. Even Christ is not able to do some things. But all our ācāryas incarnated in your body and your thinking. I know guru-ācārya... I made a contact with your ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha. I have made contact with him in Madras. Twice I met him.

Prabhupāda: He is now dead.

Indian Astronomer: No, that I know. I know.

Prabhupāda: He is my Godbrother.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Why don't you accept Him? In Vedic evidences He is the Supreme. Why?

Indian man (4): Swamiji, Christ says that he's the goal.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (4): Christ says that he's the Almighty. What is your opinion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "Christ says that he is the Almighty. What is your opinion?"

Prabhupāda: Where he said?

Indian man (4): In Bible said. "I am the God, come."

Prabhupāda: He said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he never says that.

Trivikrama: "I am the son of God."

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You have to realize from authorized scripture, not whimsically. Just like this boy asked, "God, Christ said like that," without any authority. Without reading, without understanding, he says like that. So you have to take from authority. Without authorized statement don't say anything. It is foolish. Śabda-pramāṇam. Just like a good lawyer in the court. When he says something, immediately he quotes the law, "Section number such, laws number such," and that is authorized, not that whimsically if he says. That is not the process. You have found out? Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu... Thirteenth Chapter.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We do not manufacture ideas. That has spoiled the whole world. Just like you said about Christ. That he never said "Supreme Lord." He said, "I am son of God. I have brought message of Him." Similarly, our position is that "We have got a message from Kṛṣṇa. Take it." So we have no difficulty. Anyone can say. If you study Bhagavad-gītā nicely, assimilate and repeat it, it will act. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are teaching that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances." It doesn't require that you become very learned scholar. Anyone can do. A child can do. That's it. We are teaching. Where is the difficulty? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? Why you are making so big, big program without any effect? Take the simple thing, program, and preach everywhere. That is being done. We are preaching this philosophy all over the world, and they are accepting.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That you were reading.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, yeah. I don't want to have to make you hear the whole thing because there's not enough about us. But I can read a little bit of it to give an idea. "There are signs here and elsewhere across the country that the youth-oriented religious sects that sprang into existence a few years ago are gaining a foothold for an enduring future. The emergence of a wide assortment of spiritual movements, from Eastern religions to Jesus people..."

Prabhupāda: If we introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city, all other religions will be finished. (laughs) Eh?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. In San Francisco there's nothing. The only thing in San Francisco is the Chinese Parade people come for. And the next thing is Ratha-yātrā. It is bigger than the Chinese parade, the Ratha-yātrā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here...

Prabhupāda: Ratha-yātrā is highly demonstrative.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau.

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was thinking that the religion of Jesus Christ has spread all over the world, and you are much greater than Jesus Christ. Your teachings are far, far greater, and your power is far, far greater. So if you remain here more, more years, then certainly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will spread all over the entire world.

Prabhupāda: I am willing.

Brahmānanda: Actually we can make this whole world Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not difficult.