Jail (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"jail" |"jailed" |"jailer" |"jailhouse" |"jailkeeper" |"jails"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1971, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, I was very much anxious to hear about Chidananda. So he has written me. He is not very bad.

Karandhara: Well, he was in the hospital, and he got into a fight with the guard, I guess, and they arrested him for fighting and put him in jail for six months.

Prabhupāda: Fighting?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But he is weak. With whom he'll fight?

Karandhara: Yes. It was actually very... We have a lawyer working on it to get a suspended sentence. We've got a lawyer who is trying to get him a suspended sentence because he was sick and he..., they had him taking drugs and he was weak and he had been in the hospital for four months. Why they should put him in jail? He just got a little irritable.

Śyāmasundara: They mocked him. I think they mocked him for having this and finally he couldn't take any more, and he probably hit the guard, so they threw him in jail for six months.

Karandhara: And in jail they won't give him anything to eat except... They won't give him a special diet, so all he can eat is just a little bit of vegetable. They have... On a plate they give him mostly meat and a little vegetable. They won't give him any extra vegetables.

Prabhupāda: Yes? Where the jail is?

Śyāmasundara: Which jail is it?

Karandhara: County jail, Los Angeles County Jail.

Prabhupāda: So we cannot send our prasāda there?

Karandhara: No. They won't let anything in.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: But for God's cause we can go. Just like these boys are sometimes arrested and put into jail. That is God's cause. But they are not prepared to go to the jail by pickpocketing. That is not their mission. They are executing God's business and if somebody puts him into jail, "All right. It is God's desire. That's all."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes not fact but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness. It is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering and that is really fearfulness, that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer, that's a fact.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can decide. Just like we have decided next life we are going to Kṛṣṇa. This is our decision: back to home, back to Godhead. Just like you become educated, after decision that you are going to be engineer, you are going to be medical practitioner, and in that objective you prepare yourself, educate yourself. Similarly, you can decide what you are going to do next life. If you don't decide, then material nature will decide. Just like a boy who is not nicely educated, without any future objective, the government will decide. If he's a criminal, then government will decide, "Go to jail," and if he's nicely educated, the government will decide, "You take this job." So everything is like that. We have got our future life, and if we don't prepare what is that future life, then we are like animals. The animals, they do not know.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That part we can explain by... When they ask, "How do I know that the living entities...?"

Prabhupāda: Just like a man is condemned for going to the jail. The man who will take him to the jail, the jail and everything is already there. The arrangement for his living in the jail, everything is complete there.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a thief, he knows that "If I steal, I will be arrested. I will be put into jail." And he has seen that one thief, he has stolen, he is arrested. Still he commits theft. He knows everything. Why does he commit theft?

Paramahaṁsa: Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. He's simply bogus. He's trying to... There are so many parties like that. They're four or five, they make a group and imitate these Beatles. As if... Beatles have made money. They'll also make money. That is the... And speak all nonsense. That's all. These are crazy fellows. So independence means that you can do or not do. Just like you, as a nation, American nation, or English nation, you are all independent. But why you go to the jail? Is it government's fault that you go to the jail? Therefore government has fault? Why this nonsense question. When a man, instead of going to the university, goes to the police custody, is it government's fault? Is it?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. To authority. Because you have to surrender. If you don't surrender to God, then you have to surrender to māyā. Just like you don't surrender to government, then you have to surrender to the superintendent of jail. That's all. If you misuse your independence, you'll not be happy. This is the fact. But you have got the independence. You can misuse it. That is your prerogative. That is your freedom. Freedom means you must have independence. But because you are not absolutely independent, so you suffer. The Absolute Independent is God, Kṛṣṇa. Just like government. The government orders: let this crowd be shot. Let there be bullet shot. Hundreds of men die. But government is not responsible for such death. But if you kill one man, you'll be responsible. So your independence is subordinate independence. Similarly, all living entities, they have been given independence by God, but his independence is subordinate to the independence of God.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, how can you check? There are so many living entities. They have come to this material world to enjoy. So the reproduction must go on. Just like you cannot stop the jail. You come out, but another is ready to enter it. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your fault.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So why did you not arrest him and give to the police?

Govardhana: We did. We beat him. Then we took him to court and had him put in jail for three months.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Otherwise again he will commit the same thing and again he will come. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Therefore he requires instruction, good instruction. Sometimes government invites. We were invited that Ahmedabad jail. You remember?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, there was big meeting of the prisoners. Kīrtana, everything, yes.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, the judge says, "There is no difference whether I put you in jail or not."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it. Then he has to accept jail. He should not defend himself. "Never mind. I go to jail." Why he appoints a lawyer to defend himself?

Karandhara: Well, that's what the impersonalist philosophers say, that "Go ahead and..." (break)

Prajāpati: ...The most famous theologian of this century named Paul Tillich said that all words are symbols, and God is a religious symbol pointing to our ultimate concern.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. We say also.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali-mardana: Kṛṣṇa is benevolent, and the material nature is not.

Prabhupāda: No, material nature... Just like you don't care for government. Then you be controlled by the jail superintendent. That's all. You'll be controlled. You cannot be free. But if you deny directly the control of the government then you must be controlled by the criminal department, by force. This is your position.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained. Unless they believe it is good, how they can be put in to miserable condition? Just like some of the thieves. They go to jail. They think, "It is very nice. We haven't got to earn. We are getting food here, free of charge. Yes, it is very nice place. It is my father-in-law's house." (laughs) So unless they believe, how they can tolerate such tribulations? The worm in the stool, he believes, "This is enjoyment." You take it from the stool, put it here, no, it will go again. It thinks it is pleasurable. That is their position. Therefore they have been described as mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). When they believe it, "Oh, it is not good," that is their good fortune. Then they are fortunate. That is explained by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. When they come to that fortunate position, that is first-class.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Similarly this material world, we wanted to enjoy, so Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "All right enjoy". And now Kṛṣṇa gives instruction that "now you give up all this (indistinct) come back, then you (indistinct)." He created for you. Same example I always give. Just like the government, when there is formation of the city, jail construction is also there. You cannot say that, "Why government is creating, it is unnecessary, it's premature, construction of jail work(?). But the government knows that there are some criminals who has to be put into the jail. Therefore the jail created. So because there are criminals, therefore government creates. Similarly, there are many conditioned souls who, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, they want to enjoy. "All right, for you, you enjoy to your fullest extent.'

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like government knows. Suppose government is creating one city, but he's creating at the same time the jail house. Although there is no criminal at that time. But government knows there are some criminals who will fulfill this jail house. Because you are independent. Everyone is independent. Not absolute independent, but slight independent. So therefore you have the option either to serve God or serve māyā. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...university does not teach anyone to steal, but he, he becomes a thief. Does it mean the university has taught him to become a thief? So he steals and goes to the jail. This is the position. Svabhāvas tu pravartate.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anardhena nyāya-rahitam: "If you have no money, then you'll never get justice." Dalmia, he was imprisoned for two years.

Dr. Patel: He was never in the jail. I know.

Prabhupāda: He was in the Delhi Hospital. (break) I am speaking so loudly real thing. Here you cannot. Immediately you'll be in the black book.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It seems that the government had arrested all of the union leaders, and this paralyzed the worker's appeal. So the workers finally agreed to go back. They put many thousands of union leaders into jail.

Prabhupāda: It was right. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...did in such a way that crops can be grown anywhere? Can crops be grown anywhere in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it does not grow, then what is nature's arrangement?

Yogeśvara: Well, for example, there are some parts in India that are too dry to cultivate the ground.

Prabhupāda: Dry means there is no rain. If natures like, there can be profuse rain. That is nature's arrangement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Parjanyāt. You must have sufficient rain. And for having sufficient rain, you must execute yajña. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). So these people are now becoming rascals. They are not performing yajñas. They are opening slaughterhouse. How there will be rain? Instead of performing yajñas, they are opening big, big slaughterhouse.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Therefore those who do not do that, they have been described, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One who does not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, they're all rascals. That is our test. A man may be very nicely dressed, running fast in the motor car. Ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" "No, sir." "You are a rascal." That's all. Finish all business. We don't give any respect. We can give respect as a formality, but we can understand immediately, "Here is a rascal." That's all. Is that correct? Yes. To find out a rascal is very difficult job? Simply see that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rascal. That's all. That they may say, "You are very sectarian." Just like a criminal, he's punished, and he may say to high-court judge, "You are very sectarian. You are punishing me, and the other man, you awarded one million dollars. What is this?" Because he gave before a judgement that "This man must get this one million dollars," and next moment, he punishes one man, "Go to jail for six years." So the criminal may say, "Oh, you are so partial. You are giving, sending me to cell, and the other man, you are giving one million dollar. How is this?" But he does not know that he judging according to his work.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Until the order is given, we shall hold meeting here. Daily." And tell them that "It is, it is police government. Then we should, we should give up British connection." Agitate government that "It has become a police government." Best course will be like that, that "As usual, we shall keep the ratha there. We are not moving." And hold on, go on protest meeting, doing. And keep them there. Let them arrest and go to jail. That is the real effort. (pause) Or one thing do... Satī sārthaṁ samācaret. Therefore I wanted to start this politics. There say, "It is, it is our custom. Unless the ratha is there, there is no ceremony. So you have asked to palanquin. We shall make the ratha here, standing. And after holding our ceremony we shall take the Deity in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square. And go to the Trafalgar Square and hold meeting there. But the ratha must be there. It will not move. It will stand here. We shall take the Deities in palanquin and go to the Trafalgar Square." In this way, take police permission, and after going there, along with the ceremony, protest.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature is instrumental, just like jail is instrument. But the proprietor of the jail, conductor of the jail, is government. Jail is not acting independently. By the government's direction. Similarly, the nature is working by the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated. Nature is not independent. Just like the nature is that this lump of matter will lie down here, but if God desires, it can fly on the sky. That is God's will. Nature is not independent. Then it would have remained here. Just like Lord Rāmacandra collected stones, and it was floating. According to law of gravitation, how it can float?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that's just a story.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: They say that's...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Nalinī-kānta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He put into the jail for six months. And he died in the jail. He took poison. Because after coming out of the jail, he could not do his business. He's finished.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, because you have got so many facilities to teach people that "You become patient, you become criminal, and you live comfortably." That is very nice, "You become criminal, go to the jail and live very comfortably." "You become diseased, go to the hospital and live comfortably." That is very easy.

Paramahaṁsa: But see, they can't cause any trouble in the jail. That is the advantage. Therefore everyone is comfortable because they see that the murderers are locked up and they can't do any harm. Therefore everyone is feeling safe. And in a hospital people, similarly, they have some disease. They can't... Like in India, the beggars on the street, they should all be in hospitals, whereas in the foreign countries all those type of people are all in hospitals, taken care of.

Prabhupāda: Then why hippies are lying on the street?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, that is voluntary.

Prabhupāda: So, one side, you make arrangement for patient; another side, they voluntarily suffer.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That example is given, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like your dress, when it is useless, you throw it away and take another dress. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya gṛhṇāti naraḥ aparāṇi. You accept another set of dress. Clearly explained. (break) ...also very scientific. Just like according to your last life's desires, you have got this dress, this body. So it is going on, going on, going on. Now you are creating another set of desires in this life. So you require a different dress. Then you begin another satisfaction of your desires. This is going on. Karmāṇa daiva-netreṇa: (SB 3.31.1) by your karma, you are creating a situation. Just like the criminal, he has created a situation; he cannot live anymore outside the jail. "Come on, here." He will go in automatically. So they do not know how nature is working. It is clearly said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). "Nature is working, and that nature is working," mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), "under My superintendence." Everything is there. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. Jagat, it is changing, always changing. How it is changing? Under the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment—again coming back. (break) Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: He was put into the Denver county jail also when we were in Denver. He's out on bail now.

Mrs. Wax: Not only kidnapping devotees, Kṛṣṇa devotees, but all religious movements. He can't stand them.

Prabhupāda: And the parents are taking help from him.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Then that you have to admit that you are conditioned by some authority. When you are put into jail, you cannot act independently. You have to act according to the jail superintendent's order.

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, is our desire to be eternal, blissful and full of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Now let me finish. You will never be able to understand if you jump over like that. Let one thing be understood.

Devotee (4): So he admits he's conditioned, but still, there's no free will. He says, "Yeah, so I'm in the prison. I'm imprisoned. I'm conditioned."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Free will... Just like a man commits theft by his free will. But when he is put into jail, then no more free will. He has to act according to the jail superintendent. But his beginning of jail life is free will. Nobody asked him that "You go to jail." But why he has come? He knows also that "When I am put into jail, I will lose all my freedom." He knows that. Still, he comes. Why does he come? He knows that. That is called ajñāna. Mūḍha. That is called mūḍha. He knows; still, he does.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: They are directing. Just like in the jail there are different departmental management, similarly, this management is required because you are in the jail. If you don't go to jail, the management may be closed. But you are thinking, "If I do not go to jail, how it will exist?" That is your business, say that "If we all become liberated, how this world will go on?" They say like that, as if it is very necessary.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But everyone wants sunshine. Why in one place denied, and one place there is sunshine? You are not free. Even though you want sunshine, there is no sunshine. So how you feel free? You bring sunshine. But that is not happening. There is superior arrangement. So to accept that superior arrangement, that is real business, not to declare freedom falsely. That is not possible. If I say, "I am free from the law-abiding process, law given by government; I am free from the law of the government," that is not possible. If you become outlaw, then you will be arrested and put into jail.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...indirect worship, abiding. Just like you don't worship the government, revolt. But when you are put into jail you have to worship the government.

Akṣayānanda: We don't worship, yet we don't break the law.

Prabhupāda: You cannot break the law. Outside you break law. That you can do. But when you are put into jail, then you cannot. And jail means unless the government finds that you are now obedient to the government laws... (dog growling and barking)

Brahmānanda: Hut!

Prabhupāda: He is taking our shelter, (laughter) the other dog.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Next life or this life. Suppose you are earning money in the black market. As soon as you will be arrested, you will be pun... Just like so many people are put into jail. Why they are put into jail? They have done something, big, big leaders.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Some boys, they escaped from one country, I think Rumania. And they came to our temple. They had heard about our movement, so they came to our temple. They stayed for a little while, but then they were wanting to leave. So they left, and immediately they were apprehended by the authorities in... I think it was in Sweden. And now they are put into camps, they cannot leave, they have to be processed, and practically they are again in jail. They have no freedom. They cannot get a job. They have no passport. It will take them years to get all the papers in order. They have to be investigated to see that they are not spies. So again they are still in the miserable condition.

Prabhupāda: So miserable condition... That is our conclusion, that either you remain this side or that side, it is miserable. By mental concoction you think that "This is better than that." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says frankly, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is only shelter. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15). (break) ...take Kṛṣṇa's words as it is. Everything is there. He said, "This material world is duḥkhālayam; it is the place of suffering." Industrialist, businessman, anyone, even ordinary man, actually everyone is suffering, but everyone is thinking, "I am happy."

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Prominent.

Brahmānanda: And I think this man has many wives. He has about two dozen wives. These are all his wives. He's in jail now. Life sentence. (break)

Prabhupāda: There is no problem.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?

Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.

Prabhupāda: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this āśrama?"

Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.

Prabhupāda: He is well known.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, if they caught, go to the jail and when there is trial you should explain that "This is very important book. The government should allow to sell."

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Humanism means to follow the rules and regulations and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out from your home, immediately the law is keep to the right. And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn't care. If you say, "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don't obey then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they're having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you'll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. This is the fact. We make some arrangement, and after few years it becomes imperfect. They say the revolution required. Why? That is natural. And natural means a power which makes your arrangement spoiled. Then what is your brain? You have got some superior brain which nullifies your plan. Why don't you accept this?

Harikeśa: Like breaking the law and being thrown in jail...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...after you are caught...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...and then wondering why.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that "I was imperfect, thief. Therefore I have put into jail." So we can face any philosopher. But I can give you ideas. You can write some small articles. Let them solve these thesis, antithesis and synthesis. They, they accept this thesis, antithesis?

Harikeśa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Put them.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: You'll be put into further sufferings as soon as you violate the rules and regulation of the jail. You'll be put to a further term of suffering. Just like they are independently trying to avoid pregnancy, and the same man who has killed his own child, or same mother, he is being killed within the womb. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Nature will not tolerate this. In India still these things are not happening because they are not so advanced to use all these contraceptive method. But in Europe, America, it has become a common affair to kill the child within the womb.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: In Germany they have done this.

Guru-krpa: ...take to jail, and then they say... Actually the boy collected two hundred dollars. They say, "Oh, he only collected thirty dollars," and then the others, they split.

Prabhupāda: Where it is done?

Guru-krpa: This happened in Chicago to us.

Prabhupāda: Then? What action is taken?

Guru-krpa: Nothing we can do.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The men who are here now in this room, some of them have been put in jails.... (aside:) Watch out for that thing. Put in jails and beaten just for distributing these books.

Prabhupāda: So there is no legal action?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in the courts.

Tripurāri: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.

Prabhupāda: What is our fault?

Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.

Prabhupāda: That they don't want.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So at least you can make some propaganda that "Don't give votes to these persons." Don't name any. Then he will be envious. No.

Dr. Patel: You will be in the jail.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying everything without any surrendering. (Hindi) But that care and outside-the-jail care, there is little difference. In the prison house, even one is very highly qualified, and if he applies for some good post, he will not be given. He'll not be given. But outside the prison? "Yes, you are qualified. Come on." The same government, the same man, but so long one is criminal, there is no consideration. (break) Yes, regularly I get at one o'clock.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Zoomorphism.

Guru-kṛpā: These people that say that they are God, they should be taken to court and thrown in jail for misrepresentation.

Prabhupāda: No, that is by.... There are some.... But first of all, if somebody creates God, then he should be challenged that "Where is your, what is your definition of God? If you were created God, corroborate with the definition. Then we accept." This is very logical. We can ask anybody, "What is your definition of God? What do you mean by God?" Then he has to explain. This is the point.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. A criminal is freed, but if he again commits criminal..., criminality, then again he's put into the jail, like that. (inaudible) ...his freedom, now make your choice. But if you misuse it, then again go.... māyāprāpte nivartante mṛtyuḥ saṁsāra vartmani. (break) ...go home back to Godhead. But if we do not take the chance, and misuse it, like animals, then again we go down. The process is to go back to home, back to Godhead, eternal life, blissful life. And other process is the cycle of birth and death in different species of life. So this human form of body is to make choice whether to continue the cycle of birth and death in different species of life, or you want to go home, back to Godhead. (Sanskrit) He's Kṛṣṇa conscious when he goes back to home, back to Godhead. (inaudible) species of life, according to karma, they're going to be fish.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (3): In Washington all of the drunks, they go in there and stay in the prison, and it was costing the government a great amount of money. So they passed the law that they were not going to put the drunks in jail any more because it was costing them such a big expense. They all want to go to jail.

Hari-śauri: What about when someone goes to the hellish regions though? He actually suffers there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course. But he thinks that "I am enjoying."

Hari-śauri: Oh. 'Cause after reading the descriptions in the Bhāgavatam, it seems it's pretty horrific.

Prabhupāda: Well, when one is accustomed, then he thinks it is enjoyment.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that you suffer for me. No. I suffer for my. It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to jail," he'll not go. (break) ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The atheist will suffer. Just like anyone who is outlaw, does not believe in the government's law, he'll suffer. If somebody says, "I don't care for government laws," then he'll suffer. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's a rascal. He may say so, like madman, that "I don't care for government and government laws," but naturally he'll be punished. He'll be put into jail and suffer. That he cannot check. He may, with empty words, he can say "I don't care for government," but does it mean that he can escape the government laws? That is not possible. Government will see that "Here is a lunatic rascal. Put him into the jail," that's all. Is it not? Is it not practical?

Devotee (1): He can say also that "What is the difference? You are also..., you have to farm..."

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, you and me, but we are talking of government laws. Whether you'll be punished, I'll be punished, that is different thing. Anyone will be punished. There is no question, "I" and "you." It is not that I am very favorite and you are not favorite. Anyone who will violate the government's laws will be punished. Who can deny it? It is not the question of "I" and "you." Anyone. How you can become independent of the laws? That is not possible. You have to accept God.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This very much describes modern civilization also. They are such aśuci-vratāḥ, they are given much respect in modern-day society. And the devotees, sometimes we go preaching and put into jail.

Prabhupāda: It is very fortunate they are not crucifying you. Putting into jail, but they crucified Lord Jesus Christ, they were so intelligent. Because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was talking of God, therefore he was crucified.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Boyd: I guess, if it's like India, you've got troubles. We almost went to jail rather than get out of the country.

Prabhupāda: We think, according to our philosophy, everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and we are all sons. So everyone has the right to use the property of the father. So that consciousness should be spread. This barrier of nationalism is against Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why there should be? Actually everything belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). The sky, the land, the water, they are all creation of God, God's property. But we should not take more than what is allotted to us. That is real life. Otherwise, I have practically studied that there is enough land. Just like in your country, in America, there is enough land, not utilized. They can be properly utilized, and if food grains are produced, there is no question of scarcity of food all over the world. Not only in America—in Africa, in Australia. (break) If we get nourishing food, every one of us, so there is no economic problem.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, why is the material world made on the level of a jailhouse? It's made on the level of a jailhouse, that, I've been told, the attitude of a jail instead of the attitude.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because there will be so many criminals. Therefore government has to construct a jailhouse. It is government's not desire. It is expensive, unnecessary. But because there are rascals who will become criminal, the government has jailhouse. So one who wants to remain independent of Kṛṣṇa, for them there is material world, "All right, you remain here."

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the goal. When the soul lives without this material body, that is his liberated life. Just like the criminal, he can live within the jail and without the jail. But he's thinking wrongly that without jail he cannot live. But his life without jail is real life.

Interviewer: That reflects the old, the Hindu view that...

Prabhupāda: Why you again bring Hindu view?

Interviewer: Or, the, at least the Eastern religious view, that to leave this life...

Prabhupāda: Why we are bringing Hindu and Muslim view?

Interviewer: Well, O.K., I take that back then. I take that back. Anyway, what you're saying is that this life is a jail and that really the goal is another life.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Interviewer: Right? I mean that this life is an evil prison.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, now you have understood. This is not a desirable life, to live in the jail, conditioned.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, improve, improve, to understand that I am not a person of the jail. I am a person of freedom. Long living in the jail one who identifies that "Without jail I cannot live."

Interviewer: Well, I hope we all get out of it sometime, somehow, someway, either here or there.(laughs)

Prabhupāda: But we are trying to educate the prisoners that "Your life is not perfect within the jail. Your life is perfect without the jail." This is our education.

Interviewer: Life is not perfect in the jail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the person in the jail they are thinking, "What is this, they are not working for the jail life?"

Interviewer: Person in the jail, I didn't get that.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand that there is life after jail. They are so fool, rascal that they cannot understand that without jail one can live.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: So what you were saying before, the persons in the jail are thinking "These people are not working for life in the jail," so they don't understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: How's that now?

Prabhupāda: We're not working to keep people in the jail conception of life. So that's why they cannot understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: You mean you're not working for the jail life?

Bali-mardana: To keep people within the conception that life is within the jail.

Prabhupāda: Just like a man has gone to jail, he's giving education to the prisoners, "My dear brother prisoners, this life is not good, you become honest, don't come to the jail." So other prisoners, they are working hard, they are hammering on the bricks, they think that "This man is not hammering on the bricks, he's talking only."

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: In the prison the people are, their work is, say, to hammer on bricks. So when, if someone comes into the jail and tells the prisoners, "You shouldn't be doing this, actually you should become honest and go out of the jail and be free." Now if the persons in the jail... Because... They will then become envious that "this person, instead of working hard like us, he's simply talking." They cannot understand the benefit that he's giving them and they become envious, that "Because he's not working like us he is nonsense." So do you understand the analogy? It's an analogy. Just like we are coming in the world and telling people to get out of this world, to understand the spiritual world, spiritual side of life. But because we're not working like them, sometimes they misunderstand what is our purpose.

Interviewer: In other words you think people should get away from what they're doing in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is real life.

Interviewer: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Oh! (laughs) (someone comes in?)

Interviewer: That they really shouldn't concentrate so completely on the world.

Prabhupāda: No, no. So long you are in the jail, you have to work according to the principle of the jail but you must know that jail life is not good.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Well, are your Kṛṣṇa members out of the, out of jail?

Prabhupāda: Just like, some of us are working like the hammerman, breaking bricks with hammer, but that does not mean he does not understand. So long one is in the jail, one is not in freedom, he has to work like that by force. But that is not his proper work. He has got a different work outside the jail or in his freedom life.

Interviewer: Well, what people are saying about the members of the Kṛṣṇa society is that they are not doing the jail work.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The prisoner who is hammering the bricks, he's thinking that this man is simply instructing that you have a different life outside the jail, he's not hammering on the brick. Therefore he is surprised, "How is that he is not hammering like me?"

Interviewer: In other words, he's not participating in jail life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: He's educating them to what? That this jail life is no good?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: That the jail life is no good?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: But then is that man that's hammering the bricks, isn't he going to quit hammering the bricks, too?

Prabhupāda: He may not hammer, he's giving instruction. Just like I was invited in Ahmedabad jail to give some instruction. So I'm not hammering on the bricks because I was in the jail.

Interviewer: No, you're giving instruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'm meant for giving instruction, I am not meant for hammering on the bricks.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Controlling one from coming to the jail life. If you give good instruction to a man, that "Don't become criminal, don't come to the jail, don't be engaged in the hammering business," it appears negative, but that is positive life.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Yes, now the government has a policy that anyone they do not like, they put him in jail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In India.

Bali-mardana: In India. Even that elderly gentleman, Nārāyaṇa, put him in jail. He's so old.

Prabhupāda: The result is that the Congress Party and Indira Gandhi will never be elected anymore. That is sure. Therefore he's postponing election. Now they have lost all their credit. They will never be elected. Congress Party and Indira Gandhi finished.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Without hearing the good advice of Kṛṣṇa, he does it at his risk. That's all. He'll be arrested, he'll be put into jail. That's all. He'll suffer. But Kṛṣṇa gives him good counsel, "Don't do it." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He's situated in every heart, but if you persist to do something, He gives, "All right, do at your risk. What can I do?" You suffer. That independence you have got. Just like State. State does not advise anyone that "You become a criminal." But when he becomes criminal, then put into jail. State says, "Everyone go to the university, be educated," but if you make your choice, go to the prison house, you can make your choice.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is equal to everyone. He sees that these rascal asuras are misguided, so He sends His representative, He comes Himself, there is śāstras, guidance, and everything. The whole propaganda is how these rascal asuras can be turned into devatā. This is equality in the eyes of God. Very simple thing. Just like government puts a person into prison house. The idea is to correct him. Not that government is enemy of a class of men, they are put into the prison house. Government is equal. But there is department of punishing this... (aside:) (indistinct) Government is equal to everyone, but there is this department of reformation which is called jail department. He's punished so that he may come to his senses that "I have done wrong." But unfortunately there are stubborn criminals, they are not corrected. They go and again come, go and again come.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No. You can stop it. You are missing the chance because you are not serious about the end of life. You are not disgusted with this repetition of birth and death. That is foolishness. Just like a thief, a criminal. He is constantly put into the jail but he's not disgusted. He's committing again and again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). This is going on. This is foolishness. He does not make any provision how to stop it. That is for want of knowledge. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That British government said, "Gandhi in jail is more dangerous than he is free." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: These are the statements.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Dr. Saligram?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Dr. Saligram Sukla.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He has used very nice strong words.

Hari-śauri: Hm. "They effected through devious means to have 2 members of the New York Hare Kṛṣṇa centers to be arrested. Therein lies the infection(?) of the injustice. To compound it, a judge and a grand jury agreed with their charges of unlawful imprisonment and brainwashing, a charge which is unheard of to my knowledge in civil legal proceedings, and ordered the devotees to be jailed. As a citizen I am appalled by the over-reaction, the lack of understanding, and the hate that finds wrongdoing, not only by the people that make the charges but by the court as well."

Haṁsadūta: He says the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: That this charge is unheard of in the legal history, brainwashing, and what was it? Brainwashing what?

Hari-śauri: Brainwashing.

Haṁsadūta: That there was never such a charge in the history of law, someone who's been brainwashed.

Hari-śauri: (continues reading) "As a person who's own people have been persecuted for their own beliefs I can sympathize with any..."

Prabhupāda: You can charge anyone, brainwashing.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Being in body means... What is the purpose of being in the jail? Is there any purpose?

Dr. Kneupper: Some punishment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So because we are punished, therefore we are getting this body.

Dr. Kneupper: Why does man... Why does the soul come into the body in the first place?

Prabhupāda: Punishment.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, since His birth struggled. (laughs)

Jagadīśa: We had harassment from the police in Montreal for two years. Sometimes they even beat up the devotees. They have put them into jail...

Prabhupāda: They have beaten even our book sellers in airports.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that also, when they came back from the jail life, they decided not to do it again. Therefore Gandhi did not recommend mass civil disobedience next time. He recommended individual... (break) ...but (indistinct) 19l7, and we got svarāja in 1947. So it was not due to civil disobedience or noncooperation. It was due to Subash Bose's INA. He thought that when he organized soldiers, and...

Guest (1): Put them on the battlefield, fought them, defeated them...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And when the Britishers found, "Now the soldiers are non-cooperating. There is no hope of ruling," they left.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five percent to the family and twenty-five percent let him keep for himself in case of emergency. This is the example shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So there was emergency. Everything they showed practically. Sanātana Gosvāmī was arrested. Whatever money they kept for themselves, was given as bribe to the jail superintendent and got out of jail. This is example given by Gosvāmī, that fifty percent was given to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, fifty percent they deposited with the local... Formerly the bāniyās were bankers, village bankers. Whatever one has got, extra money, they should deposit, and the bāniyās will give him some interest and utilize the money. He will not usurp the money.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, he was a person to be appreciated. There is no doubt. He had so many qualifications. But he was also doing yoga practice. When he was put into... No, after getting released from jail, twelve years. He was to be hanged.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Maybe.

Dr. Patel: C.R. Das made a very good speech. I have read all about what he practicing yoga in jail when he was himself written when he came to the minister's court. He felt that everywhere was Kṛṣṇa. Everyone was... He was seeing Kṛṣṇa everywhere. That was his feeling. So he would not be punished by anybody. But God is everywhere. His brother was transported to the... He was to be hanged and then he was transported to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct). (break) This is the fact that yato mata tato patha? Whatever path you accept, that is all right? He said that. Do you think it is bona fide? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, and he approves anything.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know that.

Hari-śauri: And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on saṅkīrtana, every day distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn't pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o'clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And... It went on for months. And then in the end there was so much publicity about it... When we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn't get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our saṅkīrtana activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there's nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don't think they can do that.

Prabhupāda: So your wife came... (break) This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lower? Yes, yes. Lower... That is mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Suppose next life I become dog. Then my becoming very big scientist, big lawyer, big this and that, everything finished. But that law is not in your hand. After death, you cannot say, "Mother nature, you are giving this body. I don't like it." No. "It is not in your liking. It is my liking." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). When you are criminal, you are under the grip of the magistrate. If he puts you in jail, you cannot say that "I don't like." No. You like or not; you must go. Who cares for your liking? Therefore mūḍha. Prakṛteḥ. Prakṛti, the laws of nature, is working in its own way. Nobody can change it. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Those who are rascal, they are thinking, "I am independent. Whatever I like, I can do. There is no God. There is no law." Kartāham iti manyate. That should be avoided, that I am independent. Means that knowledge is lacking at the present moment. "Whatever I think, I can do. It is private. Religion is private." And big, big swamis are supporting. "Yes, religion is your private."

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is our victory. That is victory because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that viṣaya viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, taribare nā koinu upāy, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy: "This material world is the burning fire of anxiety. So in order to get rid of it, we have to take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which is imported from the spiritual sky." That is a fact. So as soon as you take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are relieved from this blazing fire of material existence. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Finished. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Mahā-dāvāgni, this fire of material existence, finished. That's a fact. So they have pointed out. This circumstance, it is good. Yes. That is the position. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that. In order to get rid of this blazing fire, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21): chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Anyway, this goes on, but then what they're saying is there has to be a very big case where a cult leader of Hare Kṛṣṇa is sentenced to jail. So they're writing to say that "Now we have to find lawyers who will be willing to take up this cause very inexpensively."

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Killed him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana. He couldn't stand that the boy was smoking marijuana. Then after killing him he went to the police and turned himself in. So he came before the judge, woman judge, and he said that "I could not help it. This boy is my son, and look what he was doing. It is abominable. I had to kill him." And the judge said, "Yes, I can understand your feelings. It was intolerable." And she let the man go without one day jail sentence. No reprimand even. So this is the thing that is starting to happen now, that they are lobbying in the Congress in the United States to pass laws that if someone is abnormal, then the parents should have the right to commit him to psychological treatments. Even the child may be fifty years old and the parent may be seventy years old, if the parents think that child is not sane, then they have the right to get the child committed. So this is being passed in a couple of states, and already in California...

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: State.

Brahmānanda: ...the state, they put him in a mental hospital. They don't put him in jail but in a mental hospital.

Prabhupāda: And kill him.

Brahmānanda: And they give..., practically kill him. So they're saying now the same thing is happening in America.

Bhavānanda: It's interesting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, though, that the devotees didn't want to mention Kṛṣṇa's name.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: The devotees...

Prabhupāda: Being afraid of.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If he's in jail...?

Ādi-keśava: Yes. Their guru is in jail. Ted Patrick was just... He got out of jail, but he so much wanted to do this deprogramming that he went, and they caught him, and they put him back in jail again. And now he's in for one year, back in the jail. But they are going on with this activity without him. He has trained so many other people up.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

false

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Then much water was thrown in the Arabian Sea, and for nineteen months I was in jails.

Prabhupāda: Jail?

Mr. Rajda: Yes. In that emergency, you know, and about 150,000, patriotic people were in jails, J. K. Prakash, Morarji and all Hindu leaders and all of the workers. So I was kept at Central Prison for nineteen months. Then they released me, and after this election period, just I would order to fight the elections from Bombay South. And with her blessings I have won it with a very comfortable margin, 65,000. Just now we were at Shivaji Pack. And when Girirājajī told me that you were here, I told him definitely I would like to ask for darśana.

Prabhupāda: The material adjustment... Just like we felt little danger under the regime of Indira Gandhi. Now we have another feeling. This is material adjustment. Material adjustment may be temporary beneficial, but that is not permanent beneficial.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Then you can harass me."

Mr. Rajda: And in jail also he was studying very minutely.

Prabhupāda: But now he says that "Janata is my God." Is it not, recently?

Indian (2): In the first paper like that. But then recently he said that point because it of Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Mr. Rajda: He'll swear to God. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. He is very clear in his mind.

Prabhupāda: Why not preach Kṛṣṇa, God? Why not with me...

Mr. Rajda: He has clarified that point.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...biased against the Americans.

Mr. Myer: She has got very bad time now. She has already paid for that. So she will be in jail very shortly, her son and both, her son and... Even her chief minister in Madras, all her people are going to go in jail now, all of them. All the... Everybody involved in her ministry.

Prabhupāda: His son should be hanged.

Mr. Myer: So many (indistinct). Morarji Desai was in jail for nineteen months.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So then there is clue. Then others should be arrested.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually... I'm actually speculating... Gopāla said Bhavānanda shot two of them, and he's in jail for shooting two of them. I'm saying that they're in the hospital. Maybe they're not. He's arrested for shooting two of them.

Prabhupāda: Unless they are in hospital...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How could he be arrested? Right.

Prabhupāda: Bengal has become ruined.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: When he first came to me he was very proud: "I have introduced homosex." He thought very brilliant work it was. And another man, what is that? He's put into jail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Timothy Leary.

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha. What is his position now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't heard about him in the last few years. He's in and out of jail, I think. I saw one time he was just getting out of jail. It just shows... I think he was a big professor at Harvard. So the idle mind, devil's workshop. So he used his big brain for making this LSD. That's the value of this Ph.D. degree.

Prabhupāda: He was Ph.D.?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. Big personality. And because of the fact that he was an important member of the faculty at Harvard, so even though all he produced was an intoxicant, he gave it so much explanation, that "This is..."

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same principle. If you get on the wrong spot, you have to go to jail. That's what they have. They put you in jail. Different culture. Demoniac culture.

Prabhupāda: Just see practically. Indira Gandhi, she came to a point, and then falls again. Is it not? The same golo dhana(?). She was all-in-all powerful, and once again finished.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is all ci... It is a Communist manipulation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still in jail.

Prabhupāda: Some books you have brought for selling?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these are just advance copies. They'll be coming by regular mail.

Prabhupāda: Some books are ready or not?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I just brought these with me.

Prabhupāda: Hindi books are selling now.