Interpretation (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
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1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Govinda told me that it started five hundred years ago in Western Bengal. Could you elucidate on this please?

Prabhupāda: This Bhagavad-gītā is read by the human society not only in India, but outside India, since a very long, long time. But unfortunately, as everything is deteriorated by the contact of material contamination, so people began to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in different ways. Therefore about five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya appeared, and he started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under His personal guidance in Bengal. His birthplace is known as Navadvīpa. Now, He ordered every Indian to spread this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, in every village, every town. That was His order. But unfortunately, since India was under foreign subjugation, they could not spread, or they lost their own independence of culture.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: What are other major beliefs besides love, to which you ascribe?

Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Now, in a way, when you talk about this, you're getting into an area which to outsiders would be interpreted as a type of prophecy since...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not prophecy. We have got this description in the Vedic literature. We are speaking on the strength of authority of Vedas. We are not prophesying.

Reporter: Speaking on the strength of...

Prabhupāda: Of the Vedic literature.

Hayagrīva: V-e-d-i-c.

Reporter: Oh, on Vedic literature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't talk anything which is not authorized by the Vedic literature. That is our process.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: What I'm saying is that if astronauts were able to land and return to the earth successfully...

Prabhupāda: What is that successful?

Reporter: I would predict that you would not feel that there was... Would you then interpret it that they were able to get the visa or to...

Prabhupāda: No, if you go and land there and come back, that may be a pleasant thing for you, but we don't think it is a very nice thing. If I go in New York border and see and come back and I am not allowed to enter, why should I take so much trouble? It is useless trouble.

Hayagrīva: He says if you can't go there and live there, what's the point in going there?

Prabhupāda: Just the Russians advertised that "We're going to distribute land." That is a feasible understanding. But if you simply go and touch and come back, is that success? Why should you take so much trouble simply for touching the moon planet?

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You see? So how you can expect they're religious. And without religion, human society is animal society.

Journalist: All right, but let me ask you this. Along this line... Now I'm not asking you...

Prabhupāda: Take it. Take it.

Journalist: Thank you. I'm not asking you any of these questions facetiously. Please understand. What does your interpretation, or how does it differ in principle from the basic Jewish-Christian ethic of the Ten Commandments? How does it differ?

Prabhupāda: There is no difference.

Journalist: All right. Then if that's the case what have you to offer... When I say "you" I mean it impersonally.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Journalist: Basically, what have you to offer that is different than the Christian ethos or the Jewish ethos?

Prabhupāda: Because, as I told you, that none of them are strictly following God's commandment. I simply come that "You follow God's commandment." That is my message.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Is your philosophy, your approach to consciousness, based on the Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, Bhagavad-gītā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means practical understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. This is the sum and substance. I thank you for your capturing the idea. Bhagavad-gītā is the sum and substance of the whole Vedic literature, and it is very nicely explained, things as they are. Unfortunately there are so many interpreters. They interpret the verses in their own way. That is the nonsense of the whole thing. But if Bhagavad-gītā understood as it is, oh, it is a great boon to the human society.

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: In what... Are there fundamental differences between, or is it simply a difference in approach between your awareness and interpretations and, for example, those of the people who are involved with Zen? With some of the other Eastern concepts? Would you like to...

Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know what is Zen conception, or Eastern conception, but we agree with many of them, just like we agree with the concept of God presented by Bible or Koran. That is recognized. And Bhagavad-gītā is so simple that it does not require any interpretation. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. When things are not understood, then you can interpret, I can interpret. So the verses of Bhagavad-gītā are so simple that there is no question of interpretation. Unfortunately I have seen that in Bhagavad-gītā, commented by a great scholar like Dr. Radhakrishnan, the verse is translated very nicely and that is done by an Englishman, but he interprets in a different way. So when we can understand the thing very nicely, there is no question of interpretation.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: No, Buddha is worshiped by statue. That is historical. That is historical fact. And there are many temples in Burma, China, and in Japan, all these Buddhist countries. But these Buddhist temples began not exactly after Buddha's disappearance. At least, after one thousand years. That is a fact.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. That's much later.

Prabhupāda: Yes, much later. Because when Buddhism was driven out of India, then in Japan, China, Burma, the Buddhism flourished. Yes. That is after, almost after one thousand years. Otherwise whole India was Buddhist, whole India. Sometimes the Jagannātha Temple... They interpret. Actually it is not. They say that is also Buddhist.

Allen Ginsberg: Which?

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Temple.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: I've read bits of the Bhagavad-gītā. I don't know which version it was. There's so many different translations.

Prabhupāda: There are different translations. Therefore I have given this edition, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. There are interpretations. In many translations they have got interpretations. Not only in other parts of the world, but in our own country also. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was a great man. He has also interpreted. But the point is interpretation where required. Now, here is a fountain pen box. Everyone knows this is a fountain pen box. But if I say, "No, this is something else." That is my interpretation. Is that very nice thing? (Chuckling) Similarly, interpretation is required when things are not understood clearly. If everybody can understand this box is a fountain pen box, where is the necessity of interpretation? This is the first thing. So Bhagavad-gītā is so clear. It is just like sunlight. Sunlight does not require any other lamp.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: Yes. Not to that place. Hrishikesh we went to.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh is also one of the pilgrimage. And there is similarly Kurukṣetra near Delhi. Still that place is there. And that is a place of pilgrimage from the Vedic times. In the Vedas also it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam yajayet. If you want to function in a religious ceremony, just go to Kurukṣetra. So it is a place of pilgrimage. Now the name is there. The adjective dharma-kṣetra, it is from Vedic age. Then the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, they are historical persons. The history is there, Mahābhārata. Then where is the question of interpreting Kurukṣetra as "this body," and the Pāṇḍavas as "the senses"? Where do you get this opportunity to interpret? So these things are going on. But we object, "Why should you interpret in that way when the facts are there?" That means Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. One has got his own philosophy. He wants to prove it through Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. There are so many interpretations, 664. Everyone thinks that "I can interpret in my own way." Why? Why this should be? We say, "No. You cannot interpret." Then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? The author of Bhagavad-gītā did not leave it for being interpreted by a third-class man. He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. He said everything clearly. Why an ordinary man should interpret His word? That is our objection. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. The MacMillan Company wanted to shorten. (Chuckling) Because they are merchants. They wanted to minimize. Otherwise the book was very big. They wanted to make it only four hundred. Therefore half of the ślokas was not nicely explained. But next time we are going to publish in large and revised edition of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We must explain everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is very, very high-class philosophy and theology. Social, political, science—everything is there. It is very nice. And everything is clear. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. We have not manufactured anything.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (3): Śastra-vākya-pramāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.

Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Parabrahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest (3): Before the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa, was God existing? God exhibit temporally...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn what is the birth of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You do not know what is the birth. You are thinking that He is, like ordinary man He has taken birth. Otherwise why does He say, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ? Nobody knows what is His birth? He thinks He's... Just like a child sees daily that the sun rises from the eastern side—therefore eastern side is the father of sun. Is eastern side father of the sun? Sun is always there, but you see in the morning it is appearing from the eastern side. That's all. It is your angle of vision, not that sun is born, taking birth from the eastern side. Sun is always there in the sky. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there but to the foolish person it appears that He is born. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi: "I have no birth." Ajaḥ. This very word is used. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. So how you can compare Kṛṣṇa's birth like ordinary birth? If anyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa's birth he becomes liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is one of the instance. There are many instances, many instances, many instances. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan. In the Ninth Chapter there is verse, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Where he gets this nonsense idea?

Guest (1): No, that Vivekananda also has said.

Prabhupāda: They are all nonsense! Therefore I say they are all nonsense, who deviates from the original text of the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): Swamiji, by declaring other interpretation as nonsense...

Prabhupāda: Yes! You cannot interpret! First of all if you cannot interpret. First of all my proposal, that you cannot interpret.

Guest (2): We'll come to that, that you are not interpreting correctly, does not make me correct. I must be correct also to...

Prabhupāda: I am correct so long I present the correct thing, so long I am... If I present Kṛṣṇa as it is, then I am correct.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (2): My solution, Swamiji, most respectfully, is how do you judge that "I am correct"?

Prabhupāda: Because I am presenting what Kṛṣṇa says. First of all you answer this: what is correct, the standard of correctness? You cannot create correctness. When Kṛṣṇa says this, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "You just surrender unto Me; become My bhakta," how you can say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is not nonsense? If I say, "Give me a glass of..." Hear me. If I say, "Give me a glass of water," if you say, "It is not to Swamiji," is that interpretation?

Guest (1): I do not, and again I say...

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all you answer me. If I say, "Give me a glass of water," and you say, "It is not to Swamiji."

Guest (1): (indistinct) ...what the Christ says, Mohammed says, everyone says, that...

Prabhupāda: Let them surrender to Christ. But why don't you surrender to Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (1): No, that is true, but...

Prabhupāda: That is true, but you do not know how.

Guest (1): No, you see, our... Even your... Even your way of thinking and your purpose is that Lord Kṛṣṇa should be Lord of the whole universe, so...,

Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Kṛṣṇa is lord, universe.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (3): The Gītā, the Gītā is... Sir, if I may be permitted to continue?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (3): Gītā jñāna itself is given by Lord incorporeal, not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, it is told, at the time the jñāna was given had a body which became divya Vedānta(?).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your interpretation.

Guest (3): That is exactly what...

Prabhupāda: No, you say. Anyone who... Anyone... Whatever he says, he thinks like that, exact. That is another thing. But we know that Kṛṣṇa had no difference between His body and soul. He is absolute. Now, you are talking from the point of view that Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa's soul is different.

Guest (3): Ah, no... In every body...

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact. That is not the fact.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But he has no vision that "This is sin, and this is virtue." That is sama-darśinaḥ. As soon as you make distinction, you are not sama-darśinaḥ.

Guest (2): In another interpretation, in...

Prabhupāda: You may interpret in a different. Sama-darśi, this is plain word. Sama-darśi means there is no difference, that's all.

Guest (2): But sama-darśi equals sama-darśi. The sin and virtue are the same.

Prabhupāda: No, here... Yes, that is sama-darśinaḥ because here it is said clearly, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇa (BG 5.18). A brāhmaṇa, learned brāhmaṇa, and vinaya, very humble... That is the sign of goodness. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne gavi hastini śunica. Śunica means dog. Now he is seeing a dog and a learned brāhmaṇa-same. Now, dog is supposed to be sinful, and this learned brāhmaṇa is supposed to be virtuous. Therefore his vision, the virtuous and the sinful, the same. That is sama-darśi.

Guest (1): I think that they have made a many mistakes in writing of the ślokas.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now you are finding mistake with Vyāsa, so who can talk with you?

Guest (2): No, but, but...

Prabhupāda: Please excuse me. Please go out. Please go out. Don't trouble. You are finding faults with Vyāsa.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (4): No, blind following and open-eyed following, I say it is all right. We can read the book. We can read the verses, translation, Hindi translation. But that is not understanding.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not understanding, I understand. But I am understanding from my teacher, just like I told you, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. There are so many stalwart teachers, practically whole Hindu community.

Guest (6): But every successive teacher has added some interpretations of the knowledge, no?

Prabhupāda: First of all let him be successor.

Guest (4): You are the successor of somebody.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (4): Yes. So you want to act something to get knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): And what is your contribution, then? That is what we are asking. What is sama-darśi? Have you become sama-darśi?

Guest (6): You are teaching others to be sama-darśi...

Prabhupāda: My sama-darśi is that why only the Hindus shall know Kṛṣṇa? The world should know Kṛṣṇa.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit... I have not read much, of course, but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings, your magazines, your publications...

Prabhupāda: I may correct here that it is not my belief.

Interviewer: Well, as you interpret it in your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me, sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...

Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: But I say that Jesus Christ never said, he never meant, "Thou shall not kill," means only human being. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shall not kill means it means only human being." Thou shall not kill any animal.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His behavior, he's a perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are prohibited not to eat meat.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight, a little bit later, to, to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit—and I have not read much of course—but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings and, you know, your magazine or your publications...

Prabhupāda: I may correct here, that it is not my belief.

Interviewer: Well in the, as you interpret it your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...

Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: But I said that Jesus Christ never said..., he never meant "Thou shalt not kill" means only human beings. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shalt not kill" means, it means only human beings. Thou shalt not kill any animals.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted the wrong way. But he said "Thou shalt not kill." He never said "Thou shalt not kill among human beings." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He will be a very perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore prohibited not to eat meat.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Reporter: Sir, would you like to give any message to the Indian people?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take... My message is you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is seriously, you will be happy.

Reporter: That's all? Take it as is?

Prabhupāda: Take it AS IT IS. Don't try to interpret foolishly. That is my message.

Reporter: But, sir...

Prabhupāda: So long they are simply foolishly interpreting, therefore they did not get any benefit. But if you take AS IT IS you'll get the benefit.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of bhāṣya. I say take it AS IT IS. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Gītā gave. Why bhāṣya? Why bhāṣya? They, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetre is still there, you know. There is a station. Why do you interpret in different way?

Reporter: Sir, it is a joy to be with you.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of interpreting Kurukṣetra as different? That is a simple waste of time.

Reporter: Are you a skeptic, sir?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: Have you been to Russia (indistinct) and (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Reporter: They allowed you to preach?

Prabhupāda: So why not? We are not afraid of anybody.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: So that anyone questions, you can answer. That is required, preaching. Just like this girl, "Why you are recommending your Bhagavad-gītā?" Answer must be there: "Because this is. "They are all rascals. They are not speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Śyāmasundara: She understood it also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have no right. Suppose I have written one book. So I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? What right you have got? You have no right. If you want to speak something of yours, then you write another book. Why you are taking advantage of my book and misleading others? I want to speak to the public something, I have expressed my opinion in that way. But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating, how much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. We went to see him, Dr. Radhakrishnan, when I was in Madras. You went?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, like a vegetable, with no comprehension.

Prabhupāda: Lost.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Because he sells, I mean to say, confectionery made of pure ghee you'll find always hundreds of customers waiting. And there are many dalda ghee shop not so crowded. Some cheap men are going there. So anything you present pure, there will be automatic customer. And that is being proved. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is, and He is being accepted everywhere, all over the world. But as soon as you make adulteration Kṛṣṇa, manufacture your concoction—"Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this," all nonsense talk—immediately lost. Why should we do that, adulteration? There is no business adulterating. So many scholars, so many swamis, they have simply presented adulterated. Just like even Mahatma Gandhi says, "The Kurukṣetra means this body." And where he got this meaning? Where is the dictionary meaning? You should speak something which must be authorized. Where is the dictionary where Kurukṣetra is explained as this body? And Kurukṣetra station is still existing. People are going to Kurukṣetra for religious performances. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. Why should I interpret Kurukṣetra, "the body"? This is going on. So that will not be effective. It may be effective, a few person, somebody's admirer. But it will not go far above that. But if you present as it is, it will be accepted by any real inquirer.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śvapāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Because paṇḍita does not see the outward dress, paṇḍita sees the inside, who is putting on the dress. Therefore, without misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, or being misled by so-called big, big leaders, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it will be very nice, beneficial to everyone. That is my, not opinion, but is the fact. Things should be taken as it is. Call a spade a spade. Now, interpretation is required when things are not clear. When things are not very clear, not easily understood... There is example in Sanskrit grammar, gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa bali(?). The neighborhood of ghoṣa family is on the Ganges. Now, on the Ganges-Ganges is water—how there can be a village? Now, here interpretation required. When the matter is (break) ...on the water but on the bank of the Ganges. So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible. Then it is not science. No longer the scientific value of this two plus two remains. We follow that principle, and that is the only principle. So if you're actually serious about Bhagavad-gītā, I do not know what is your commentary. I request you, "Try to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret in your own way. Then it will be (indistinct)." Everyone has got (indistinct) all over the world. Therefore we are selling this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is very nicely. Our publisher's MacMillan Co. and their trades managers report is that our Bhagavad-gītā is increasing daily, sales, other decreasing. That is the report, and in October they published 50,000 copies, it is already finished. Now they have to plan it for the second edition. People are very much now, eager to read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So, imitating us, somebody's, another (chuckles) man, he said "Bhagavad-gītā As It Was." (laughs with everyone) Like that. So that will not harm our cause.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in another place, it is stated, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), "After many, many births, when actually becomes wise, jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, he surrenders unto Me." That is the perfection of knowledge. So this is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the only source of scientific knowledge of God and our relationship with God. I am very glad that you are already very serious about understanding Bhagavad-gītā. But I request you only that try to... and understand Bhagavad-gītā without any, our man-made interpretation. That will be my request.

Guest (2): What is one thing that I would like to...

Prabhupāda: And we are always ready to help you in this.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, what to do?" "All right." He simply swallowed up the whole fire. This is inconceivable mystic power. That is God. Aiśvarya-vairāgya-yaśo-'vabhodha-vīrya-śriyā. These six opulences in full. That is God. That inconceivable power, inconceivable energy or mystic power, we have got also. Very minute quantity. So many things are going on within our body. We cannot explain.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our Bhagavad-gītā is therefore named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities. Neither prāṇāyāma or yoga. They are unable. Simply I have advised them, "With these beads chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds." They are chanting. It is very easy.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they don't. Yes. God has created different foodstuff for different living entities.

Buddhist Monk (1): But they interpret that God created them also for their consumption.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Buddhist Monk (1): They interpret that they have, the God has created the cattle also for their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is... The cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: We talked with Professor Zeiner (Zayner?), and he may come. He's trying... He's going to see...

Prabhupāda: That is only interpretation. Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. He is plainly speaking that "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because You are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). So first condition to understand Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about devotion. There is no other talk. There are other talks, but they are subordinate. They are not principal talks. The principal talk is to understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You understand Sanskrit? You...?

David Lawrence: Yes, yes, I'm there.

Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He says that "By My order, you become a guru." "So what shall I do, sir? What is Your ājñāya, order?" That yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128)': "Whomever you meet, you just speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken." That's all. What is the difficulty? If we speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, exactly... Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without my interpretation, no nonsense. No. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more superior truth above. Truly speaking, that here is Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. There is no more superior person or authority than Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? We are exactly repeating the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are saying the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are asking these people, "Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: "Don't bother with any other things." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching them, that always think of Kṛṣṇa, always become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, always offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. So what is our difficulty? There is no difficulty. But if we actually do this, then I am Kṛṣṇa's representative. Who is representative? What the original master wants, if one does the same thing, he is representative. It is not difficult. But people will not do that. He'll try to avoid Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's book Bhagavad-gītā and interpret nonsensically and spoil the whole thing. This is going on. He's not ready to speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. He speaks his own words of the authority of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Woman: I am not sure, I think people might think there was a conflict. I mean...

Prabhupāda: Conflict is there when you disobey Christ. That's why Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." All the Christians are simply killing. Where is a Christian? There is conflict. They'll support: this killing is this, this isn't that, this isn't that (?). They want to kill. That's all. That is conflict. If you actually follow the tenets of Christianity, there is no conflict. But if you do not follow, at the same time you say you are not Christian, there is conflict. It is clearly stated—I've asked so many Christians—that "Why do you kill?" Christ said "Thou shalt not kill." They want to support their killing process in so many ways. They'll never agree that "Yes, Christ says not to kill. We should stop it." No. They want to support it by various interpretations. That is conflict. Clear word is there, "Thou shalt not kill." And why they're maintaining so many slaughterhouses?

Woman: But it's the same with Arjuna, wasn't it?

Prabhupāda: But you are talking of Christianity. Don't talk of Arjuna now. If you talk of Christianity, don't take support from Arjuna. You talk of Christianity. It is clear statement, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? "Thou shalt not covet." And illicit sex and illicit man and woman intermingling is going on. Who's stopping it?

Reporter: True.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya. They all accept Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). They accept it. So how can you defy all these ācāryas and you become better than them? That is nonsense.

Reporter: But all these ācāryas interpret in different, different ways.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Reporter: No?

Prabhupāda: On the principle, they never... Just like Śaṅkarācārya and Rāmānujācārya. He's impersonalist, personalist, but both of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya, although he is impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this cosmic manifestation; He's transcendental. That means he says He's person. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa, the Personality of Godhead. So we have nothing to touch in the spiritual understanding. He's talking of the material understanding. His philosophy, he started the philosophy, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You, you, you think that to kill an animal is no sin?

Cardinal Danielou: No, no, no. No sin. No sin. No sin. Because we think that the simple biologic life is not sacred. That is, what is sacred is the human life, the human life. But not the life, ass.

Prabhupāda: But I think that it is interpretation. Jesus Christ says generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Jesus said, but this phrase is not, the text is not a text of Jesus. It is a text of the Old Testament, and it is a text...

Prabhupāda: No, it is New Testament also.

Cardinal Danielou: Old Testament! Old Testament.

Prabhupāda: No, is it not in the New Testament?

Cardinal Danielou: It is in the Levitic, in the Levitic, in the book of the Levitic.

Prabhupāda: Ahhh.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.

Cardinal Danielou: When God says that it is not good to Indian, and says to the Jews that it is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now take... Therefore I say that Jesus Christ, either you call him God, or confidential representative of God, both of them are one, when he says: "Thou shalt not kill," why should we interpret in an another way, to our convenience?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, but Jesus eated (French, refers to passover lamb)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: Mutton, mutton.

Yogeśvara: Oh, the sheep.

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the sheeps...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Jesus Christ never maintained slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Professor: English, more than that.

Yogeśvara: So now we wish to present the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Professor: As It Is.

Prabhupāda: Without interpretation. And, according to the trades manager of MacMillan Company, our book is topmost selling.

Professor: I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Than all other editions. Their report is. They, they print at a time fifty thousand copies. So three or four times they have already printed.

Professor: Really?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Since last August, within one year.

Professor: Wow. That's a great success.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Because they have read different interpretations. Now they want to read as it is.

Professor: That's fine. That is fine.

Prabhupāda: What, what is your opinion about interpretation?

Professor: Well, it's much better to have a commentary separated, not an interpretation given mixed with the translation. It is not to be...

Prabhupāda: It is not good. No. Yes. We cite them...

Professor: It has to be different.

Prabhupāda: No, if you have got your own opinion, you can write your own book. But you cannot interpret on the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. He has also interpreted. He has interpreted, "This body... Kurukṣetra means this body."

Professor: But he didn't write it...

Prabhupāda: Well, it is not widely read, but this has become a fashion, to give his own interpretation. Yes.

Professor: Yeah, that's right, the fashion. That's the word. That's right.

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa was not a so, I mean to say, ignorant, that He left something to be interpreted later on by another rascal. No. That was not Kṛṣṇa's intention. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is final. So we accept in that way. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we appeal to the people that "You think of Kṛṣṇa. You become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." All these disciples, they have been taught like that. "You offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "You worship Kṛṣṇa." That's it. And by doing that, they are advancing. Advancing. And before me, for hundreds of years or more than that, the Bhagavad-gītā was known to the European and American countries. As you say, there are so many trans...

Professor: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So this Bhagavad-gītā, at least, should be introduced in all colleges. And Professor Dimock has recommended. Just...

Professor: Well, it is quite widely read, the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Professor: The Bhagavad-gītā is quite widely read.

Pradyumna: This is an introduction by Professor Dimock.

Professor: Yes, I've seen it. I read it. But it is quite widely read, you know. I mean the translations...

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that other Bhagavad-gītās, they have interpreted in their own (indistinct) not as it is. That is the difference. Just like you, you must have read Bhagavad-gītā by Radhakrishnan.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Now he says, he misinterprets that "This is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see.

Professor: No, but Radhakrishnan, his... He has wide knowledge also, but his interpretations...

Prabhupāda: This is his knowledge.

Professor: But his interpretations are...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says. Why he should interpret in that way? Kṛṣṇa personally says that "You become My devotee." And he says "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Why? He has no right to say like that. This way, these people mislead. If he is commenting on Bhagavad-gītā, he must present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Why he gives his own opinion? If I say, "Give me a glass of water," how you cay say, "No, it is not to him?" How you can say? Is that very good thing? That Radhakrishnan has done. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, person." Just see. Do you think he has got the right to do so?

Professor: No, but I don't think Radhakrishnan's commentaries are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Just see. It is there.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: Man, yeah, yes.

Prabhupāda: Man. The protection means to kill them. Just see. They have interpreted like that, that "The animals have been given to us to kill them and eat." This is their interpretation.

Ambassador: Swamiji, I have taken already... You have been so kind.

Prabhupāda: No it is very kind of you that you have come.

Ambassador: No, it's all on you.

Prabhupāda: Give him prasāda.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, we're preparing prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Purīs.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (1): How does He speak to you or to us?

Prabhupāda: He was present five thousand years ago. He came on this planet and gave instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. So that is recorded.

Reporter (1): Why have you written Bhagavad-gītā as it really is? Why?

Prabhupāda: As it is, because there are many foolish rascals, they interpret unnecessarily. Just like Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is a place in India, still existing. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The meaning is clear, that "Kurukṣetra is a religious place and there, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus, they assembled together for fighting." But many so-called leaders, political leaders, scholars, they have interpreted, "Kurukṣetra means the body."

Reporter (1): Can you tell me the chant? Will you recite the chant to me? And then tell me why it's used so often by the followers?

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Reporter (1): The Krishna chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

This, this is transcendental sound vibration. If you chant, then the foolish ignorance will gradually dissipate. You'll come to real knowledge. You'll be purified. In India still, there are many snake charmers. They, simply by mantra, they can get out the poison. Materially, if it is possible, how much it is possible in spiritual?

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Śraddhā. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.

Prabhupāda: What is that interpretation?

Umāpati: Could you elaborate on the definition of śraddhā?

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm conviction. That is śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa's words, that is śraddhā.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you have doubts, then that is not śraddhā.

Umāpati: So therefore one can understand only if one is in śraddhā.

Prabhupāda: No, that śraddhā has to be increased.