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Institution (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Did you come with the purpose of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly a church, but it is an institution for understanding the science of God.

Interviewer: Could you tell people how you are dressed today, what's the significance of your clothes?

Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?

Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.

Interviewer: Guru means teacher.

Prabhupāda: Guru means not exactly teacher. Guru, the word, means heavy. Heavy. H-e-a-v-y, heavy.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: It is not for particularly selected the hippies' quarter, but the boys they found a cheaper place in that quarter. Therefore they occupied that place.

Interviewer: Cheapest place you could find.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we are not very rich institution. So we found it cheaper. So we selected it. It is not for the reason that because it is hippie quarter, therefore we selected it. No.

Interviewer: Actually, most hippies couldn't join your religion because they take drugs...

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are completely different from the hippies, because hippies they are addicted to sex and intoxication, and these things are completely forbidden in our temple.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So you have to convince people like that, that it is not a sentimental institution. We are teaching the thing which is very absolutely needed for the human society. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his personal questions and problems are solved. And if others adopt the same principle, then social-political questions are also solved. So we have to teach. They will say it is not practical. Why not practical? No, anything is not, not practical. There are so many scientific... You discovered. Just like this tape recorder. This is advantageous to the human society. But it is not practical that everyone will have a nice tape recorder.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now for our disciples, we don't give anything cheap. Our first condition is character, moral character. You see? So unless one is accepting moral character, we don't initiate, don't allow him in this institution. And this Maharishi was, "Oh, you do whatever you like. You simply pay me thirty-five dollars and I'll give you some mantra." You see. So people wanted to be cheated, and so many cheaters come. They do not wish to undergo some disciplinary action, you see? Anything. They have got money. They think that "I shall pay," and immediately he'll get the money.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So when your country wanted a certificate for making me permanent resident, so I got a certificate from my Godbrothers that I am initiated. That's all. But otherwise, in our country, there is no necessity of certificate.

Journalist: In other words, there's nothing like going to a seminary in India where you go to a seminary or a monastery and take a course for four years...

Prabhupāda: No, this is monastery. Yes, there is a monastery. We have got institution, Gauḍīya Math Institution. They have got hundreds of branches, yes.

Journalist: You go for a prescribed course of study?

Prabhupāda: Yes, prescribed course of study, these two, three books, that's all. Anyone can read. Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Caitanya-caritāmṛta. You'll learn everything. You haven't got to learn so many huge volumes of books.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything of this present, past, future, everything." But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don't remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January... Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am... Next step is going on. (Break) Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Puruṣottama? Why don't you get that tape? Yes.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: But it is the mission of human life to come to that point. So at least there must be some center or institution who may give them this idea. It is not that everyone will come. Just like there are many educational department. I know in Calcutta in our boyhood age, at that time Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee was vice-president. So he opened some classes in the university. In each class there were four or five professors, and at that time the professors' salary was 1300 dollar, 1400 dollar. And the fees were collected, at most thirty-six dollar per month. You see? But still the classes were to be maintained because the ideal must be there. So our mission is the intelligent persons of the world may know that this is not, simply seeking after sense gratification is not the aim of human life.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: No, no, he was not authority in the spiritual sense. He was a politician, moralist, politician. That's all. Worldly man.

Haṁsadūta: How many people will be there?

Guest (1): Swamiji, you were telling something?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I don't find... (break) ...vanaṁ sattvaṁ na durjante, sattva vasanti, tad eva ca durjanas tu pade pade. This is another verse.

Guest (1): (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: So we made some life member. Is there any possibility of getting, enrolling some life member? That...?

Guest (1): Life member means...?

Prabhupāda: Institution. We want some life members. Otherwise how we can conduct this institution? (indistinct) Through telegram? Or reply?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. You are thinking lower level, and how you can surrender to yourself? Then how you can get advance? Your surrender means to a superior person, as soon as you call surrender. And without this, there is no possibility.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

We have to accept these principles; otherwise how it can make the... There is no possibility. Just like if you want to be educated. You have to be admitted to an institution, in school, in a college. If you say, "I shall be educated at home," that is not possible.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)

Mr. Arnold: Well, my wife and I, we can. We're old.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are excepted. You are excepted. Sometimes old men are called old fools. (laughing)

Mr. Arnold: My wife is twice..., she's older that I am, and she's made me return because sometimes I've lost my temper with, over, you know, various things that happen...

Prabhupāda: The thing is that you are liberal to understand things as they are. But generally, old men, they are sophisticated. They do not like to accept anything new: "Go away." Or they are not serious about religion. That is another thing. Actually..., as I see that old, older section, they have been habituated in a different way, so they do not want to change (indistinct). That is the difference.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way. But because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power...

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I know that. (break) If you want, you can come sometime to European countries to our different branches.

Dr. Kapoor: Why you make me leave Vṛndāvana now? (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, because you have got some background, so you can have very good chance to speak in big institution.

Dr. Kapoor: That's all right.

Prabhupāda: And if our movement is supported in that way, that will be nice.

Dr. Kapoor: I was out from Vṛndāvana for about a month-and-a-half, that I told you. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was also painful.

Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) hell. Although I was with my children, you see, small kiddies, lovely people, you see. And still, you see, I didn't like to stay with them.

Prabhupāda: That I can understand.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: That's very natural. It is costly here. But these children and their parents also very much interested. So I think you should have a nice institution here to train the children in this country. And after their education, they may take to any line of livelihood. That doesn't matter. But the foundation... Just like in our Vedic system, first of all brahmacārī. That brahmacārī system is very nice. Even Kṛṣṇa, God Himself, He has nothing to learn. He is abhijñā. In the Vedas He is described as abhijñā: He knows everything. But just to teach us, He also became a brahmacārī in the Gurukula. Lord Rāmacandra, He also accepted a guru, Vasiṣṭha. So that is our Vedic system. Anybody may be anything, but the process is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the value of life, spiritual value of life, one must go to a guru. Tad vijñānārtham. In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Just see how Kṛṣṇa's creation, wonderful creation. And they defy, "Oh, what nonsense they are." There is no brain in creating such nice flower, flavor? "It is automatic, nature, nature." What is this nature? Rascal. Nature means rascaldom. Nature. What do you mean by nature? Just see how foolish they are. They cannot explain what is this nature. Simply say. I'm simply sorry that the so-called institution education simply making people all fools and rascals. That is my grief only. I am therefore trying to give them some intelligence. The whole program is to create some fools and rascals, that's all. Any philosopher, any scientist comes, I can say that "You are simply creating fools and rascals because you are also fools and rascals." I can say, challenge. Then let us come to argument. "You are such a fool and rascal and you are creating fools and rascals, that's all. That is your business." And that is going on as the advancement of education. You do not know.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But the regulation is that if one day you cannot finish, you have to finish on the next day. But sixteen rounds is not very large number, the lowest. The lowest in India is twenty-five(?). Here sixteen rounds, twenty-five, not even twenty-five. So the president, local president, must see that the members are chanting. So this way the institution will be managed, then it will make progress. That is our spiritual strength—to observe the regulative principles and at least chant sixteen rounds. Then you do other things. This is the biggest institution of spiritual activities so everyone of us should be spiritually strong. Otherwise, superficially if we want to manage, it will not be possible.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: His love is Kṛṣṇa, enormous, but not sentiment. If anyone wants to talk with him, "Yes, come on," That is uttama-adhikārī, mahā-bhāgavata. So this is the position. Now something is in your hand—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That was my plan that I shall carry this baggage and give it to the Americans and they will distribute. That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background. Let me finish my Bhāgavata Purāṇa and those who are assisting in the writing, I'll be there (indistinct). That this institution, ISKCON will give to the world so many valuable jewels. There is no comparison. That you will have to see, (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughter) No one will pay. So then therefore I thought that to purchase one, two house, so that as Vṛndāvana property, because I am maintaining now the whole institution by begging. But when Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa deities are there, there is no income.

Sumati Morarjee: No, there won't be any ... both places...

Prabhupāda: In Bombay we can go to you..."Mataji we have no more money, please give me some."

Sumati Morarjee: No, that is different, but these things...

Prabhupāda: Yes, so, but Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa I want to make some provision. So I'm negotiating for that. This is one business.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: You president, you give her this garland.

Sumati Morarjee: Me?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: But did you put 'round Swamiji's head?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Then I can take prasāda garland of Swamiji.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee 2: Jaya, haribol.

Prabhupāda: You consider Śrīmate Morarji as mother of the Institution (laughter) .

Devotee: And you're our father (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: No. Even we wander from village to village, people are being impressed that we are doing something good. Actually it is so. I tell you it is so. One who cannot understand it, he is a fool. Actually we are doing the best work, God consciousness. And actually it is a fact: simply for want of God consciousness they are suffering, that's all. There is no other reason. The only reason is this. Just like this morning I said, "God is the proprietor. Why you are claiming proprietor? You may be manager, not proprietor." Actually that is our position. Just like I am head of this institution, but I am not dealing as proprietor. I am dealing as manager, head. Is it not?

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand. This is the defect of the modern civilization.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I had no money, (laughter). But one nice boy—his name is known all over the world, George Harrison—he has promised to give me loan.

Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa has all the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually, we are spending not less than seven lakhs of rupees per month throughout the whole our institution. But by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are selling our books very nicely.

Dr. Kapoor: That's very encouraging. That's most encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling our books, average, at the rate of 25,000 rupees per day.

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. That is unbelievable, I must...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are selling magazines, books, and especially our Nectar of Devotion is selling like hotcakes. (laughter) Nectar of Devotion. So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging. There is no scarcity. And I am traveling throughout the world at least twice in a year.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. But you make higher study, higher study, higher study.

Gurudāsa: Māyāpur can be the highest.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct), or everywhere this existence(?) should be lower class, higher class. But our all institutions should be for giving spiritual. We have got so many books. Simply he has to learn English and Sanskrit, that's all. (indistinct) So we are not going to follow the university curriculum, no. We have got our own.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.

Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.

Prabhupāda: When?

Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Once I was invited to speak in that institution, MIT. So I questioned, "Where is your department of technology to understand the difference between dead body and living body?" So I spoke on this. So the students appreciated. After my lecture, they gathered around me. How do you explain? What is that technology, why the man is dead? Science is simply based on this bodily concept. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, he discovered this wireless, Marconi's. Marconi took advantage from him. They were talking together and when Marconi got the hint from him, he immediately published. it was his invention, Sir Jagadish. Therefore he invented this pulsation of the trees. and started the Sir Jagadish Institution in Calcutta. So there is painful feeling even of the trees, what to speak of others.

Brahmānanda: Even a small insect...

Prabhupāda: Anyone.

Brahmānanda: He'll run away so quickly. You try to go to him.

Prabhupāda: As soon you try to kill or attack, then he protests. And there is feeling also. Why? Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am head of the institution. I have nothing to do. I say, "Karandhara, do it." Immediately does. I say you, do it, immediately... I say him. I have got so many secretaries. I will ask him. Similarly, why God will create.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a direction.

Prabhupāda: Direction, yes. That is said, mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction." So if it is possible for a common man like me, how much it is possible for God? That we have to understand. Now I want to go to India, London. Now everything arrangement is made. I can go immediately. So similarly, if God wants to do something, why He has to do something? Everything, as soon as He desires, everything is there.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why not imagine it? As soon as you say law, there must be law-giver.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I agree with that, but when you say law-giver, see, people get different concepts. For, for...

Prabhupāda: Why different concepts? Law-giver, just like...

Krishna Tiwari: For you, law-giver may be something, for me, law-giver may be something else.

Prabhupāda: No, law-giver is the same thing for you and me. Just like state laws comes from the government.

Krishna Tiwari: Government is nothing. This comes from people.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is an institution which is called government. It may be people.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, which is made by people.

Prabhupāda: But still, you, you are not controller of the state laws.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this havoc. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they cannot make any progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That difficulty is there—offenders. And later on, there are so many institutions. They say that "You can create your God. You can become God." That is going on. "Whatever you think as God, that is God." So how one can make progress under these circumstances? One gentleman was arguing with me... He was supporting Rama-Krishna Mission. He said, "Even stool I consider God. It is God." (laughter) He came to this point. "If I worship stool as God, then it is also God."

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Faith is that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he captures this slogan, that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I shall be all-successful," this is the beginning of faith. Bhagavad-gītā creates this faith. But one who does not take even this faith, how he'll make progress. Progress means the progress of the same faith, up to the love of Godhead. That is perfection of faith. So these are the stages. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the stages. So this institution is meant for training people from different stages, and beginning with this faith, that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta... "Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, my life will be perfect." This faith is the basic principle.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And why not? Kṛṣṇa is everything. Suppose I if I say, "I am everything in this, my institution," does it mean I have lost my personality? No, no, if I say, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... If somebody says that "Bhaktivedānta Swami is everything," does it mean I have lost my personality? That is material understanding. Kṛṣṇa keeps His personality; still, He is everything.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. You learn... We have got this institution. You can come and learn how others are doing, others are learning. We have got class in the morning at seven. If you've got time, you can, you are welcome. We don't charge anything. You can come and join. There is no business. You can live with us. We don't charge anything. Or you can come and go, attend class. There is no charge. Kṛṣṇa gives us everything. Just like this house. This is two hundred thousand pounds. George Harrison has purchased it, and he has given us. Similarly, everything comes from Kṛṣṇa. None of our members go to office or factory. But we eat also, nicely.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

These are animal conceptions. So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God. So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process. Simply to hear, sincerely, then everything will be done gradually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). By hearing, the mirror of consciousness, consciousness is just like a mirror.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So actually, in this, at the present moment, they have invented so many technology, but this technology is missing. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Nobody wants to die. And where is that technology, to stop death? What so you think? You are financing many technological institutions, businesses. Why don't you finance an institution which is giving instruction how to stop death?

Banker: But as I understood it, you were encouraging death as a form of liberation. Isn't that my understanding? That that was the ideal?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Therefore you are not financing. Because you misunderstand. Actually, we are giving the technological knowledge by which one stops death. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Find out that verse.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So our, this institution, that is our ambition, that we are giving, trying to give facilities, at least to some intending person, especially retired person, to take advantage of this institution. As far as possible live, for we have got rooms like that. Live there and take little prasādam and fully devote time how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success of life. So it is authorized by the śāstras, pañcāś ordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Therefore you'll find still. But now the things have changed that every holy places there are so many men retired.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I was taking the stock to the booksellers there or some institution or some friend. In this way, sixteen dollars, the full set sixteen dollars. In this way collecting. (break) ...That gentleman who carried me in his car, he is Mr. Kaśinātha Servan(?). (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, a large edition, this size, eleven hundred pages.

Dr. Kapoor: I see.

Guru dāsa: We should let Dr. Karan Singh patronize ...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guru dāsa: ...an Indian edition of it. We should let Dr. Karan Singh patronize an Indian edition of it, without, with one photo. As he was suggesting, let him patronize it, the Indian printing.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So? Big, big advertising, "United Nations." All nations, you... Because all the cats and dogs united. What they can do? If the all the world's cats and dogs meet together to make a formula, will they be able? (laughter) So actually, this is the proof. They're all cats and dogs. What do they know how to unite, how to live in peace. They do not know even. Because they're animal, cats and dogs. This is the proof. Just study this institution. What they have done? Am I right or wrong?

Hṛdayānanda: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So study this institution.

Viṣṇujana: Thirty years now.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Thirty years they are struggling for United Nations, big, big expenditure, so many humbug, bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, humbug program, and no result. Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking, I am, only for these rascals. They're making humbug program, but there is no action. And for temporary, so-called happiness, without God consciousness. I am simply thinking of them.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fifty-thousand. Because fifty members. Fifty members, eleven hundred rupees. He makes at least two, three members. If some day absent, average fifty. Fifty thousand. Not a single fifty n.p. he keeps. There are many. All, all of them. Not that everyone is earning fifty thousand, but even fifty hundred or fifty payasā, everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is tam abhyarcya. And if you divide partially, "Some percentage for Kṛṣṇa, some percentage for my sense gratification," then Kṛṣṇa says, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Proportionately. If you have spent cent percent of your energy for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is cent percent for you. And if you have spent one percent for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is one percent for you. Responsive cooperation. (laughter) Yes. This institution has advanced so much all over the world because we have got these boys who have dedicated everything for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it has so quickly advanced all over the world. They do not think of anything of personal.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And they will "relax" by drinking, "relax" minister. "You save money for our relaxation. That is our necessary. You don't spend money." And people are... Because they see that "If I save, it will be taken away. Let me spend lavishly." Yes. Just like we stayed there at Mr. Patel's house. There are three men only in the family: Mr. Patel, his son and his daughter-in-law. They have got eight cars, big, big cars, Rolls Royce. And about twenty servants. They know that "They will take it away. Better spend." Everyone is doing that. Because they know, "If I save, one day the government will take 98 per cent of my savings. Then why save? Better spend." They cannot give in religious institution. If they say they want to give something, no, that will not allowed. Yes. The whole idea is that "You save, and one day I shall take the whole money and we shall distribute amongst the ministers, Indira Gandhi and company.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have been educated in that way. For education we have so many books. If from child up to the age of eighty years, if one is educated, we have got sufficient stock to give him education.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: We have got our educational institution in Dallas, Gurukula. From small children we are educating to become highest devotee.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French) This gentleman says we had difficulties with the police in the beginning. And I said, "Yes, but then I went, and I gave him all your books, and he read them, and then there were no more difficulties."

Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of our books we are being appreciated everywhere. In the beginning they might have thought that "Some of the hippies," like that.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. If you like, you take it. Otherwise, go to hell. Who cares for you? We have, we have started this institution, "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness." So if you do not accept Bhagavad-gītā, then why did you come here? Why do you come here? You go away. We are not hankering after you. If you go to hell, go to go. Go to that. Who objects? Go. But if you come here, then you must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. If there is some signboard that "Indian sweets, rasagullā is available," why do you go there for asking meat? What is this meaning? We, we, our Society, it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So why do you come here for if you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa? Go to hell.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: There is a place, Ramaṇa-reti. Did you see that Oriental philosophical institution?

Professor La Combe: It was not yet started at that time.

Prabhupāda: No, it was there. 1970. No, when you went to Vṛndāvana?

Professor La Combe: '36 or '37.

Prabhupāda: '36? Oh, yes.

Professor La Combe: It was not started.

Prabhupāda: :Yes. Ramaṇa-reti, there is a road from Vṛndāvana to, connecting with the road from Delhi to Agra. That road is called Chattikara, Chattikara Road. So on that road we have got our temple. It is locally known as Ramaṇa-reti.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: The main problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't do.

Prof. Pater Porsch: But will this center also be a place of learning for Sanskrit studies and allied topics?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We are educating our children in Dallas. We have got very good institution, Sanskrit and English, and they are reading these books. That is sufficient. If they read these books, all different department of knowledge will be acquired. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Yes. You can play a little record.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions-philanthropic, international, United Nations. The only attempt, how to love each other. But they'll struggle, they'll not attain the platform, simply struggle. There have been so many attempts, even the favorite example, the United Nations. How much they are doing and people have got the idea of philanthropism, countryism, communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is they are trying to come to the platform of love.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the description of meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, by their mind concentrating upon God, they try to see Him. So you must know what is God. Just like our institution, they know what is God, description of God. They can think of God. But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of Him?

Guest (2): In your books you talk about Brahmaloka, which, I suppose is heaven.

Prabhupāda: No, there are many lokas. Heaven also one of them. Brahmaloka also one of them. Don't you see so many planetary system. So there are innumerable planets. Some of them may be Brahmaloka, Candraloka, Varuṇaloka, Sūryaloka, and so many others. So Brahmaloka is one of the planets.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, actually we are pledged to give something substantial to the human society. This is our mission. We are not that group, that showing some magic and take some fees and... It is not our business. We have got so many literatures full of treasurehouse of knowledge. We have to distribute that. Not bluffing, showing magic or this or that, miracles. No. We are not this. It is an institution for giving knowledge to the human society. The first beginning of knowledge is that at the present moment, people, although very much proud of their advancement of knowledge, he does not know what is the active principle of life.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Teach him to understand Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is assuring, "If anyone understands Me nicely, then after giving up this body he comes to Me." Where is the difficulty? Give him Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and he is saved from birth and death. There is nothing wonderful. There is no jugglery. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). (break) ...only institution for mitigating the sufferings of humanity. But they don't know what is the real suffering of humanity. Dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. That is the real suffering, cycle of birth and death. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know what is the goal of life, svārtha, self-interest. Unless he comes to Viṣṇu, there is no question of svārtha-gati. (break) ...reclaim this portion, eh... (break) ...strong and stout. Not all. (break) Yesterday it was a very nice city, and today it is finished. This is called māyā. (break) And there is no God. Just see how intelligent they are.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly. So where is the institution, university, for educating people of the spirit soul? Where is it? Therefore the whole civilization is going in the wrong way.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels there are some people, for example who are teaching the right thing. There are missionaries who go to the Amazon jungles and also to Africa to teach. And he feels they are offering...

Prabhupāda: But we find the great cities are great jungles. A great city is a great forest. (lady begins speaking) Let her come forward.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She has said that you have repeatedly talked about those things which are wrong with the society. So she would like to know exactly what you mean by modern society and exactly what you feel are the problems with the society...

Prabhupāda: The modern society is not taking care of the driver; they are taking care of the car. This is the defect.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. So who is giving? Where is the educational institution to give lesson about this living force? Is there any education all over the world?

Reporter: But you don't find that the fact that your monks are wearing robes or shaving their heads is a difficulty in the West, where not many people...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of human life. There is no question... The Western people also have this living force, and Eastern people also have this living force. So where is the difference, West and East? There is no question of West and East. It is the problem for the whole human society.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned soul. They are struggling for existence. Existence means finding out how to come to the original consciousness, and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means "love," so everyone is struggling hard how to be in the platform of love. So many institution-philanthropy, international and the United Nation—the only attempt: how to love each other. But they are struggling. They have not attained the platform, simply struggling. There have been so many attempts to unite. The vivid example is the United Nation. Formerly that was League of Nation. And people are manufacturing ideas, philanthropism and altruism, Communism, communityism, this ism, that ism.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Who is simple, not hypocrite. Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are śūdra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?

Prabhupāda: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says it is a great service or a help for the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varṇāśrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. (break)

Jayapatāka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a śūdra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the śūdra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya. Śūdras are never for education.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you do not follow these instructions of Kṛṣṇa, then where do you, why do you waste your time reading Bhagavad-gītā, and mislead others? That is our protest. All these misleaders... Perhaps, throughout the whole world, it is the first time—we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We are the only institution in the world that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are liking it. Before that, for the last two hundred years, so many swamis, yogis and..., they tried to preach Hindu philosophy, Vaiṣṇavism. Not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, not a single person. Now you see so many young men. Why? Why this difference? Because we did not present Bhagavad-gītā adulterated.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that I asked him. Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?

Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the śāstra. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation. Then what is next?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.

Governor: No, what is... What is the... An electrician we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a brāhmaṇa. An engineer...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: By education you create.

Justin Murphy: Fine. But how... O.K. How about, then the, some of the ancient and maybe even now the latter-day philosophers...

Prabhupāda: No, just see...

Justin Murphy: ...the men of sobriety and gentleness, the Bertrand Russells for example.

Prabhupāda: They have to be trained. Just like you have been trained up as geographer; similarly, a certain man can be trained up as first-class man by education.

Justin Murphy: But trained by others or trained by themselves?

Prabhupāda: No, there must be institution.

Justin Murphy: But surely training by oneself. But training by oneself, such as for example an Albert Einstein or a Bertrand Russell...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no, no. By teacher. You have become geographer not by yourself.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no, no. By teacher. You have become geographer not by yourself.

Justin Murphy: Oh, yes, but we also have many... I'm nowhere near what you're saying is a first-class. I'm talking about some of our latter-day philosophers, and Bertrand Russell is a person, for example, who, for gentleness, sobriety, and thought, whom I admire very much. And he has attained that himself. He hasn't been... He was certainly, as we all must be, surely, trained to begin with. But then it's a process of individual thought.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no, no. But that's all right. Just like we have got different institution—this is for educating engineers, this is for educating medical man, this is for educating geographer—as there are different departments.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa will supply everything. Be confident. This is brāhmaṇa. We don't depend. You see for the last ten years our institution going on. We don't depend on anyone else. If you contribute voluntarily, welcome, but we are not dependent on you. This is brahminical class of man. We don't... Find this: śamo damas tapaḥ śaucam. What are they? Śamaḥ?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise the society was divided into four classes—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up. Not cent percent, but even one percent man becomes ideal, the ninety-nine percent will see and follow. But there is no ideal man. That is the defect. So just like we are training them as ideal man, by character, by religion, by behavior, by education. That is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you can see practically what was their previous life and what they are now. So government should establish an institution to create ideal men. We can help. We can help.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will do. If regular institution runs on with all facility... We get so many devotees come here, after some time they become dedicated devotees. The method must be there. This is... We are increasing; our movement is not decreasing. Just like we have opened a temple here. There was no temple, but we have got a nice temple. In this way all over the world our movement is increasing; it is not decreasing. I came from India alone in New York, 1965. So for one year I had no place to stay, I had no means to eat. I was loitering practically, living in some friend's house and some friend's house. Then gradually it developed, people. I was chanting in a Square in New York alone, full three hours. What is that, Tompkinson Square? Yes. You been in New York? So that was my beginning. Then gradually people came. You were in some club, what is that?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So there, and I went there. The proprietor, the organizer, he took me there. So I think if we, if you are serious, let us combinedly open an institution where people should be trained up how to become first class. Children should be trained up. That will make a solution.

Director: Must change society then.

Prabhupāda: No, no change. Let society what it is. We train up some children as we are doing in Dallas, and some men also. Just like we have trained them. It is possible. No. This is practical example. Just like you were in a den, Morningstar.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have helped this institution in a difficult position. That means you have pleased Kṛṣṇa. That is your success. My devotees are in difficulty.

They wanted some legal help. You, as a lawyer, helped them, so you have pleased Kṛṣṇa, God. That is the aim of life. Whether by my work in different spheres, as a lawyer, as a businessman, or as a scholar, as a philosopher, as a scientist, as an economist... There are so many demands. It doesn't matter. But you should see whether you are successful. And what is the standard of success? The standard of success is whether you have pleased God.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Because there are different grades. But at least one class of men should remain in the society as ideal, God conscious. Just like for our usual life we require lawyers, we require engineer, we require medical practitioner, we require so many, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who are fully God conscious and ideal. That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually our, that you have already mentioned, that "Example is better than precept." Our whole process is following the example of predecessors, nothing independent. So that principle should be followed. We do not accept any precept who is free from the predecessors. Do you follow?

Bahulāśva: Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). This is the secret of devotional service: nothing to do independent. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the particular, specific qualification of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How they are doing? They have got so many other institutions. So what is the result? The Graduate Theological Union... So I saw so many names. What they are doing?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bahya means external, and abhyāntara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyābhyāntaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified, brāhmaṇa. And who is not purified, he is muciḥ. (break) We have to present an ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don't want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) ...not expect everyone to become brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. Because the three qualities are working, you cannot make all the population on the modes of goodness.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) That's all right. So we have to set such institution that māyāra nāhi adhikāra, no more jurisdiction of māyā. That is perfect.

Bahulāśva: We must keep very high standards.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). There is also, vegetable.

Revatīnandana: Seaweed.

Sudāmā: Clams.

Jayatīrtha: It's full of barnacles.

Revatīnandana: And mussels also. The black ones are called mussels. And also crabs.

Prabhupāda: (speaks to someone in Hindi) So you were hearing me talking just now?

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Simply talking? (break) ...come to take some students to his institution.

Satsvarūpa: Something like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: After he speaks, he speaks about his institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the institution is now closed. So he thought that he would bring some student from America. (break) He is also one of the, what is called, trustees of the... So he has said to Bon Mahārāja "You better hand it over to Bhaktivedanta Swami. You cannot do it." (break)

Bhāvānanda: ...is intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is businessman. Picking up the... (break) ...in Hong Kong, they are picking up some food from this garbage.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...you meet Bon Mahārāja, and if he talks again time, say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple, why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍīya Maṭha?" We were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority, authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930's he came back. Came back means Guru Mahārāja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47..., not '40, '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So what books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual world means no more accepting this material body. And so long we are in this material world we repeat one body after another. And if we degrade ourself to become criminals, then we degrade to the hellish planets down this universe. So human civilization means by nature's way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Where is the any other institution who can sell forty thousand dollars a day? So how do you say that they are against us?

Sandy Nixon: My last question. Could you tell me about the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because it's so important to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I'd like to have...

Prabhupāda: It is very simple. Hare means "O the energy of Lord," and Kṛṣṇa means "O Lord. Both of You kindly engage me in Your service." That's all. "Both of You, Kṛṣṇa and His energy..." Just like here we have got conception of male and female, similarly, originally, God and His energy, God is male and energy female, prakṛti and puruṣa. This idea of male and female, wherefrom it comes? God is manufacturing so many male and female.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And what is the pleasure? Stool-passing and urine-passing points are joined together, and it is pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure. Just like the pigs. With pleasure, they eat stool. So they think it is pleasure. Standard of pleasure has gone down so low. This is Kali-yuga. (break) ...advanced. He has disciple, guru, but he knows that he is suffering whole life for this institution. Still he'll not give it up.

Brahmānanda: He still has hope against hope.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He thinks that "I shall die peacefully if I expand the laboratory house, that I have given something to Vṛndāvana." Did he not say like that?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: As if Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him to give this institution to Vṛndāvana. Such a foolish person.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No, God says that "You become devotee of Me." You do not become. That is your fault. Therefore you must... Just like government does not say that you become criminal. Government says, "You become educated. You become high-court judge, become big officer." Why you become criminal, pickpocket? Does government give any education for becoming pickpocket? Hm? Is there any institution how to steal, how to become pickpocket? (laughter) Then why do you become? Just see. (break) ...eatables you can collect, and I shall show you how to cook in the cooker. One boy. You also see, because nobody will go there.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God."

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the academy? Nonsense. They are spending so much money in this kala-kendra, academy, this, that. And no place for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just see. Such a cultural book of knowledge. There is no such institution, Gītā instruction, institute. No. This kala bhavan, this kendra bhavan this... They have got so many dance bhavan, and when Kṛṣṇa dances with the gopīs, "Ah, that is bad!" The rascals, they do not understand where you have got this tendency for dancing. Because it is there in Kṛṣṇa. That they do not understand. Kṛṣṇa dancing is bad, and my dancing is very good. They will put so many questions, "Why Kṛṣṇa dance with others' wives." "And why your are dancing with others wife, fall-down." Just see. Kṛṣṇa's dancing is mythology and his dancing is fact. Although His life is mythology (indistinct). (laughter) (indistinct) Rabindra Bhavan. What they are doing? Such a big house.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you attend all these Kala Bhavan. Utilize like that way. You will have always engagement. This our chanting, dancing, prasāda distribution. And they will pay also. We'll sell books. Why don't you take advantage of this institution? It requires organisation, that's all. Why LIC grounds, so much money? Three thousand daily and 40,000 monthly and so on.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why March? Immediately! Try for immediately. Every week there must be some festival. Hm. In that way you don't require a very gigantic house. We can live anywhere, but our propagation will go on. (break) So many bhavans and so many institutions, utilise them. And there will be concession, if we take for one week, two weeks. They will give concession. Sometimes they may give free also. When they understand this is nice movement. (break)

Devotee: ...is starting to sell, to make more money. It's not very big (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No. He has done a mistake so he wants to rectify it. He wants to bring money, (chuckles) but if the money is lost, it is lost, let him come back. What is there? A life saved is more important than save the money. So if I could know the address... (to passerby) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Then I could write.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever condition, there is God. That you have to accept.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, what is that God?

Hṛdayānanda: Well, God does not directly take part in the material creation. He simply created...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but He creates by His energy. Just like I am creating this institution, but I am not doing directly, but my men or my assistants, they are doing it. (sound like conch) What is this sound?

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Encouraging means your behavior should be so nice that he voluntarily gives. That is encouraging, not that begging and "Put something here. My belly is empty." (laughter) ...that is nice, that "Here is an institution. You kindly become a member. Help us." That is another thing. But why should you earn by showing the Deity? You work so nicely they will become voluntarily member, contributing. That is nice. But not that "Now we have got Deity. He's starving. Please give me something." No.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It can continue. It can continue.

Dr. Patel: They come down there and just stay for pleasure. Because this temple.

Prabhupāda: No, no, nobody can stay without following our rules and regulations. That is not our...

Dr. Patel: Externally they may follow. They may be people, out of difficulty...

Guru dāsa: Everyone is in difficulty.

Prabhupāda: It will be an institution for teaching spiritual life. So if he does not take the teaching, then it is not...

Dr. Patel: One thing, you must have a Sanskrit school.

Prabhupāda: That we can have. Sanskrit is already there in the books.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is being misused. There is no institution, no university, no education system, to understand what is that living force, without which it is a lump of matter. Where is that education?

Mike Barron: What do you call that force?

Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The cats and dogs, they are doing that. Then where is your human intelligence? Then how you can understand God if you have no human intelligence? These books are meant for the human being. If I give to the dogs that "Read this book; you'll understand God," who cares for it? All these school, college, institution, university, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if we do not take advantage of this human form of life and try to understand ourself and God, then we are simply cats and dogs. That is going on. We are fighting like cats and dogs. And before the Englishman came in Australia, Australia was property of somebody else. And now you have captured Australia, you are barking, "Why you have come, Indian, here?"

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It must be received through a medical man. Then it will be clear. Therefore the paramparā system.... Arjuna said, evaṁ paramparā... Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Everything is paramparā. If you receive the knowledge from the authority, then you are in perfect knowledge, simply by..., not by reading the books. Therefore our method is to accept the perfect guru to understand the subject matter. But still, if one reads the books as it is from authorities, there is chance of understanding. Real thing is training. So our institution is training, not only training, full knowledge, practical and theoretical. That is real scientific. If you give up one side, then you can give up the theoretical side, but practical side you cannot give up. Then you'll never come. The two sides, practical and theoretical.... So that is real scientific knowledge. So two sides are presented in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and they are being thoroughly trained up. (pause) Take prasādam.

Room Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: P-form sanctioned by the state government, yes, state government. So it was applied for. It was... No sanction was coming. Then I went to the State Bank of India, the officer Mr. Bhattacari. So he told me: "Swamiji, you are sponsored by private man. So we cannot accept it. If you are invited by some institution, then we could consider, but you are invited by a private man for one month, and, after one month, if you are in difficulty, and there will be so much obstacles and so on." "Well, I have already prepared everything to go." So I said that "You, what you have done?" "No, I have decided not to sanction your P-form." "No, no, don't do this. You better send to your superior. It should not be done like that."

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Āhāra required. Just like we are reading this Bhāgavatam; it is proper utilization of time. Similarly, if we take some newspaper, some statement of the politics, and talk and argue and waste time, there is no need of such thing. I think in our institution there is no newspaper. That is one advantage. In the Western countries, newspaper is very popular thing, a huge bundle of newspaper. Although he'll not read, the newspapermen supplies huge bundle of newspaper. And wasting of paper, printing, unnecessarily cutting the trees, for running on the paper mill. This is sinful activity. They are not reading so many nonsense books and newspapers, but paper is required, there is demand. So paper mill requires cutting of the trees unnecessarily.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are many men who do not go to the university and live peacefully. But that does not mean university is useless. Similarly, many men may not come to us, that does not mean this institution is useless. It has its importance for the serious men, not for the asses.

Richard: Right, but do you think...

Prabhupāda: Just like this university, they are serious for education, and they are ordering our books. Others may not order; they are not reading. That means they are not serious.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The institution is already there. We are conducting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if the government cooperates that a certain number of students must be trained up scientifically what is the meaning of God, that will be very much beneficial to the state or to the country. We can give solution for any problem. "We" means Kṛṣṇa. We are simply preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇa means black also. Kṛṣṇa, this word, (chuckles) means black also. He is following?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution who is teaching these things?

Kern: He said that the monastery did not teach this. I don't know if you can generalize about all monasteries.

Prabhupāda: I don't say monastery. I'm speaking that this is the way of training. Even a third-class born or fourth-class born could become a first-class man. This training should be given. There must be an institution how to become peaceful, how to become truthful, how to become honest, how to become religious, how to become believer in God. Why not this institution? They have opened institutions how to learn to deal the hammer, technology. But if, in the society, there is no first-class man on this basis, then who will guide? If there is no brain, then who will guide the hand or the leg?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: I shall request that.... There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. Who cannot take up any training, they are fourth class. So how they should be trained up, that indication is there. It is not the question of Eastern and Western. You become peaceful...

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: His business is he has got some institute in the United Nations building, and he has got some office also. That means some poor country, poor, "Give me, give me charity," propaganda. And he will officially present some application to the Ford Foundation, and the trustees will give him money. There is no poverty-stricken application, but through this institution.... And there is clique, between the.... They are always.... That trustee came, that Desai?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In South Africa?

Prabhupāda: In Durban? Yes. They were taking money. Somebody told me.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? No, I do not wish to interfere. You manage now. I want to see that you are managing without my interference. Now practically I want to concentrate more, or absolutely I want to do that. But sometimes this mismanagement gives me too much anxiety. I do not wish to see that somehow or other we have built up a nice institution, on account of lack of management it may be hampered. That is my only anxiety. Now what is the position of the Gurukula in Texas? Our Gurukula, I have repeatedly said that we want simply to know English nicely—English is international language—and Sanskrit just to read and understand our literature. But we don't find any progress in that way.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In the varṇāśrama institution the sannyāsī, or the person in the renounced order of life, is considered to be the head or the spiritual master of all the social statuses and orders. A brāhmaṇa is considered to be the spiritual master of the three other sections of society, namely the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. But a sannyāsī, who is on the top of the institution, is considered to be the spiritual master of the brāhmaṇas also."

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All over the world they have given standing order. (laughter)

Dr. Sukla: Of course, it's very attractive to look at, another thing, the colors. So it's a beauty sight. But for some people...

Prabhupāda: In India, the list you have got? We have got standing order from all institution, universities, colleges, standing orders, "Send as soon as possible."

Devotee (2): The best thing is to distribute them everywhere.

Prabhupāda: In Germany, in Russia, we have got order. The Russian professors, they have given order.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years."

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in 1965. Then in 1966 I established this institution in a storefront on the Second Avenue. That is the beginning. I never thought we shall be able to possess such a big building.

Guest (1): You've done so much in that short time.

Prabhupāda: I have not done, Kṛṣṇa has done.

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa has helped you to do it.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking, that if we become sincere to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa can give us all opportunities. He's all-powerful; He can do that. (aside:) Those who are going, give them. Those who are going, you can give one. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Do you read all these verses, those who are reading Bhagavad-gītā?

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So this institution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have started. Now we have opened this center. I am very glad that you are coming here, but study the science of Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain blind. The science of Kṛṣṇa means science of God. The human life is meant for understanding the science of God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. "This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth—Brahman." That Brahman, Parabrahman, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, when Arjuna studied Bhagavad-gītā, his conclusion was... He addressed immediately, "Kṛṣṇa," paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Bhavān. "Yourself..." So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. I am sitting here; you are sitting here. I am not in my apartment, but Kṛṣṇa, although He is sitting in this temple, He is present everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). In this way we have to study Kṛṣṇa very scientifically, and the books are there, and we have tried to explain as far as possible. Take advantage of this institution. Don't waste a moment of your life. Take it very seriously. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ. Take seriousness... Especially those who are educated, they should take serious consideration of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand each and every verse of Bhagavad-gītā, especially, and, if possible, Bhāgavatam. There are so many books. We have got program to publish at least eighty-four books like this, four hundred pages each. So we have already published fifty-four books.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Till now, they took bhakti as a matter of sentiment. Religious science they did not know, all over the world.

Bhūgarbha: He said he's trying to show that by studying bhakti in Indian tradition and also in Hebrew tradition, he's...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is not achieved by studying. Bhakti stage is achieved by practice. That is the special significance of our institution, that we are engaging our men in practicing. Therefore they are getting knowledge—not by reading.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. Why salary? Kṛṣṇa's servant. We are eternal servant. That is the beauty of our institution. We have no hired men. Unless one is sincere, why he'll work? What is the time now?

Bhagavān: Eight-thirty.

Prabhupāda: I think it is stopped. Just see how beautifully it is colored. This sense, aesthetic sense. Kṛṣṇa knows how it will become beautiful. Svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Construction—eh?—of the flower. And there is no intelligence.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That, here is the society. You train them. You have got all children. You train them in that way, so that... Whatever is done is done. Now you can make very good society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Not that one mistake has been done, you should continue. Rectify it. The difficulty is the modern society, the leaders, they do not know the aim of life. They are blindly doing everything like animals. Their philosophy is like the animals. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that's all. This is the philosophy of the animals. And human philosophy is to understand first of all what I am. I am this body or something else? That is human life. But nobody questions this, there is no institution to teach this science, therefore the whole human society is misguided. Just like if I want to train my boy to become a medical man, then I teach him biology, botany, similar... So if... Because I know I shall make my boy a medical man.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance. There is no school, no college, no institution to give instructions about this science. This is the position of modern civilization. People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru. Nobody is giving.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance. Everywhere, all over the... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). And there is no other institution perhaps, throughout the whole world, who is teaching about this self-interest. That is a fact. Because they do not know.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Iran? The response, they are hearing, but some of them, they are already converted student. Our head of the institution in Iran is Ātreya Ṛṣi. His name was Attar (indistinct).

Interviewer (5): You have some project here. Can you kindly explain what is that?

Prabhupāda: Our project is Bhagavad-gītā, learn Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically in your life.

Interviewer (5): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to establish an institution in Kurukṣetra to teach Bhagavad-gītā in practical life and inviting students all over the world. That is our program. We have asked for some land from the government. So if the government gives us the land, we can try it also.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. If Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhākāra arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there. So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi, Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that "This house is very nice." She was governor's wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. Through collector and through all government officials pressure. She wrote me later on, that "Bhaktivedantajī, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?" So, of course, there were many lawyer friends.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning.

Gargamuni: Yes. In college he took courses in religion.

Prabhupāda: And when he first came to me he expressed that "I was searching this institution. Now I'll join." And he was getting at that time four hundred dollars?

Gargamuni: Yes. A school teacher.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he was paying everything almost, keeping little money. And then he brought him.

Hari-śauri: I have a picture of you with your hair. I'll show you. I have a picture of Gargamuni Swami when he still had hair and karmī clothes.

Gargamuni: "Shakespearean locks." Prabhupāda used to call me that.

Hari-śauri: Hair in this picture's a bit cropped up, but you had a bead bag then.

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, then that was later.

Prabhupāda: You were selling Back to Godhead on the street?

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible. So your answer...

Indian (1): No, the institution for training this Swamiji? Your proposition?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. I have got so many ideas.

Indian (1): In Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (ministers start speaking in Hindi) (break) ...institute in your Andhra Pradesh. (pause, Hindi conversation) This is Telegu? In every language of the world. In Europe we are printing in English, in French, in Germany, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (kīrtana)

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...Sannyāsī should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vṛndāvana, in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vṛndāvana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Kṛṣṇa asked me. I thought that I must go, Guru Mahārāja wanted it, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Let me try. So if I had not gone then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahataḥ nirvicaraṇam.(?) Mahātmā, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They know it. Because from the very beginning, Guru Mahārāja was serious about publication. He started press and published these books. This Bhāgavata was published by him. And the journal, six journals, he was very much fond of publishing, publication. Very, very. He told me directly that if it was possible to get the marbles from this Gauḍīya Maṭha and sell it and convert it into books, I would have done it. Because I know there will be blazing fire in this place. (break) And by Kṛṣṇa's grace, by selling books we are getting. This is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise... This Bon Mahārāja is so proud of his institution. He could not do this. He could have done it. For the last forty years.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The bābājīs, they are against anything preaching. They are very, very much against preaching. So I am preaching. Bābājīs, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, and all of them, their idea is that I am ruining this bhajana and Hindu dharma. This is the propaganda. What I am writing, they are all wrong. And they are making... And they try to poison my disciples as far as possible so that the whole institution may be poisoned and break. This is their propaganda.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the enquiry is finished. Now government is considering to give that land. (indistinct) that land. There were many others, land offers in Hyderabad, but I wanted to start this institution in the, on the birth site of Lord Caitanya. Otherwise we have got better land. We have asked government for 350 acres but we have already bought in Hyderabad, 600 acres. Here also we can get immediately 500, 600 acres, like that. We have already got another plot of land, 100 acres in Ahmedabad. So there are so many lands available but I wanted to start this project in Māyāpura, the birthsite of Lord Caitanya. Therefore we are (indistinct). If they say no, then we shall attempt it somewhere else.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I came here to see that, not to sit down in a room peacefully. So there also we shall inform the meeting that we want to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement town to town, village to village, by attracting them with musical demonstration of saṅkīrtana, dramatic play, movie, prasādam. Somehow or other they should come to the temple, to the pandal and congregationally chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, hear Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. For this purpose, whatever expenditure is required, that you should collect and spend. This is the scheme of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You must come here, question, understand, and vigorous propaganda should be inaugurated town to town, village to village. Those who are educated, to them distribution of literature. The school, college, library, institution, university, by scholarly presentation. That is wanted. What is that?

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?

Indian man: Not the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.

Indian man: This is, one part is true knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No, not, suppose self-realization, what I am, is it not?

Indian man: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what I am, then you have to study in this way, whether you are this body or you are something else. Is it not? So that is in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā explained, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Find out this verse. This is self-realization. Bhagavad-gītā begins with self-realization, what I am. Am I this body or I am something other than this body? That is self-realization. So that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has recommended our case, that "This is the only institution who is making the Christian Hindu. Before this movement the Christian converted Hindus. Nobody could convert the Christian to become Hindu. And this is the only movement that is converting Christian to Hindu." So he is very much in favor of this movement, and it is understood that he talked with Indira Gandhi in telephone. So maybe that if that Hindu movement is increasing and in India the cow slaughter is going on, and it is against Hindu, (they) might have considered like that.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then why...? You become expert. If you cannot find out seven men, then what is this institution? Anyway, one may not be very expert, but he should practice how to explain. The explanation is there. He has to simply do it very nicely, that's all. Everything is there. And the students should sit down in that way here. That's all. It's not at all difficult.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: "I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs." This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was gṛhastha, he produced Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. That is one... So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is gṛhastha. Produce Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If I can produce kṛṣṇa-bhakta as children, then I'm prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children." And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī in their previous life. What was the name? Their determination is "If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, tapasya. And when Kṛṣṇa came, "What do you want?"

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But these smoker, bidi smoker paramahaṁsas, they imitate Rūpa Gosvāmī: "You cannot go." Simply by imitating Gosvāmīs by a loincloth they have become... (break) Pṛthivīte āche yata naga... All over the world, as many villages and towns are there, preach. But this paramahaṁsa says, "No, no. I cannot go beyond Vṛndāvana." Kali's..., Kali-yuga paramahaṁsa. Practically, if I remained at Rādhā-Dāmodara temple becoming a paramahaṁsa, then how this institution would have come into existence? That is a fact. But we are not doing. If I would have been a great paramahaṁsa, not leave Vṛndāvana; I would have been very happy in that room, no botheration. Then how this movement would have been started all over the world?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore there is certain age, that "At this age no more such ambition, material. Lead simple life and advance." That is after fiftieth year. This is our Vedic system. In the beginning it is not possible, but by practicing... So if one lives for hundred years, fifty years' extravagancy, "Now stop. Now be regulated and try to be mukta." This is the system. But they don't want even up to the point of death, even men like Gandhi and others. They do not want. This morning Indira Gandhi said that "I am for the mass of people." And Vivekananda, "My country." The same feeling as a person, individual person thinking of his family, these people are thinking of his country, a big family, not for the whole living entities, jīva. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nobody is interested in the śāstric injunction. They've lost them all... Temporary... This is an institution to elevate people gradually. (break) If we follow our own... (microphone moving)

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should be encouraged. They must give some service to the institution. By earning money, that is hard-earned money. (man chanting on loudspeaker in background) So why our men are not chanting? This is...

Rāmeśvara: They're just starting.

Prabhupāda: He's also stressing on chanting, this man, Punjabi. He is stressing that "Mind is restless. Chant. The mind will be controlled."

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So much land sitting. Huge land is lying vacant, and they are complaining, "Orissa is poor. Please..." Why poor? Why don't you work? You must remain poor. You do not produce your food. Kuyoginaṁ kuśam upaiti lakṣmiṇī.(?) If you work hard, Lakṣmī will come. Our institution is working so hard, all our devotees. Therefore we have no scarcity. We are not bābājīs, taking a mala and smoking bidi. "I do not go beyond Vṛndāvana." Rascal, loitering and associating with so many women, and they have become puffed-up, paramahaṁsas, Rūpa Gosvāmī, imitation Rūpa Gosvāmī. Only a loincloth of Rūpa Gosvāmī. No education, no book writing, no going out of Vṛndāvana, begging. And therefore government's capturing them and giving this injection.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So poor fund of knowledge. Accident? Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "A man and woman becomes lusty, they have sex, and it, the body, the form, comes out. So you can cut it and then eat it." Very horrible condition of the human civilization. It is the only institution throughout the whole world who are trying to deliver people from this ignorance. We are the only. All bogus. They do not know anything, what is religion, what is happiness, what is spiritual life. Nobody knows. No... But that was covered. Now we are opening religion.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it. If he begins, that is also great guarantee that he gets another chance, another chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Why this chance should not be given to the human society? What is this nonsense dog dancing, election, and bribing, stealing, and unnecessarily struggle? What they'll do? They are all nothing, all of these. What will be gained by this?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And here they are poverty-stricken. Generally they come, join this institution, those who are poverty-stricken, not willingly, "Oh, here is a good institution. We should join." That is very rarely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what I think is that... But their children will be able to. Like these young boys here.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) The father-mother cannot maintain them, so entrust them Gauḍīya Maṭha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That's what's happening here. That's how we're getting all these boys.

Prabhupāda: Not that willingly they're coming, "Oh, it is good institution." That they do not. One or two, that way they are coming. Otherwise...

Jayapatākā: But the others who are giving the children here, they are seeing that here the child can benefit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, their fathers realize. But generally all helpless people, no caretaking at home, "So let me go to..."

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then there should not be any scarcity for their comfort. People are trained up to the modern comforts. Therefore I am building so big, big institution. Otherwise, I... That's a fact. Rādhā-Dāmodara temple is sufficient for me. It is not for me I want these big, big buildings. I am accustomed to live anywhere. But those who are educated, scientists, they are accustomed, Europeans, Americans... They must be given proper place. That was my Guru Mahārāja's policy. Not that all of a sudden they should now live on the floor. No, that's not possible. Then they will be disturbed. Give them nice place, give them nice food, nice instruction. You are all intelligent boys. Do it immediately. Another building construct. That colony should be for first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious people, to preach. So Gargamuni, you also help.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will also make some engagements in... There is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: These things the swamis cannot do.

Girirāja: No. None of them. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Either Cinmayananda or this Sai Baba or this...

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Śrīdhara: I remember one example, you said we do not care who is manager of the stool room.

Prabhupāda: Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. So make plan to speak in these big, big institutions. And recruit members from them.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let there be one institution for training Indian youth, for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mr. Rajda: That could be done.

Prabhupāda: You do it, and it will be wonderful thing. Do it. In New Delhi. Or in Bombay we have got now very nice building.

Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cooperate with us. It is scientific. Last night our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara presented very scientifically. We can challenge any scientist, any philosopher. So if you become serious, if you cooperate with us, this institution can set a great example, not only in India, but to the whole world. So you are so kind, you have come to see me. You have got desire. So let us take it seriously.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Recruit two others and make it at least five, and travel all over the world. All institutions, all universities, all scientists. If you have got commodity, deliver. It is not a bluff, gold manufacturing. It is not that. Actual fact. That day, your presentation was very nice. Any scientist will be convinced by such presentation, learned speeches. So now at least five men, and estimate what will be the expenditure. I shall arrange. Don't worry.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All sorts may go, but you must know the real message, that within this machine the owner of the machine, the driver of the machine... All sorts of... There are three thousand parts in a motorcar. You have all sorts of knowledge about the parts of the car, and you do not know who is driving, then what is this knowledge? Every paper, every learned man, every..., every should take it seriously and implement it. It is not meant for everyone. Still, there must be an institution to teach this, I mean, the highest standard of knowledge to the human being. Why they should simply jump like cats and dogs? This is our mission. So don't try to imitate cats and dogs, but be human being. Understand what is your position and cultivate that knowledge.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You don't understand, therefore I say you become a student. Understand it. That is our institution. If you don't want to understand, that is another thing.

Mr. Koshi: No. I try to understand, but I drink coffee and tea. I cannot...

Prabhupāda: Because you have not been taught by proper teacher.

Mr. Koshi: That I accept.

Prabhupāda: That is not your fault. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction. So therefore our brahmacārī system. First of all one becomes brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). These things are there. Everything is there and we don't take advantage of this knowledge. We are after becoming dogs, that's all.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only. They will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something. What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa... What he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What you will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if government requires teaching the science that this body is not yourself, you are different from the body, if some other sect, they say, "That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā; it is meant for the Hindus, not for us," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should not be.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the institution for teaching Bhagavad-gītā must be there. The science of life...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be there in every university.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's scientific. It is the only scientific book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Kaumāra, childhood, yauvanam, youthhood, and jarā, old age, does it mean only for the Hindus?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So arrange for the State Bank coming as soon as possible. That will facilitate our business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wanted to know, Girirāja, whether you thought Bank of America would give interest on a savings account weekly. We know they're giving it on the fixed deposits.

Girirāja: I'll ask the manager.

Prabhupāda: It is a charitable institution, so you'll... Why not give weekly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Kun... If he says no for any reason ... (break) Here they come. (guests enter)

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very ... Aiye.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.

Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we have got. The example is already set up. These boys, they have not come here for learning your cycle manufacturing. They have enough of it.

Mr. Rajda: That matter of cycle he is doing.

Prabhupāda: And we are proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. So that is my request, that I have started it. Make it an organized institution that the people from all parts of the world...

Mr. Rajda: Would come over here.

Prabhupāda: ...would come here and learn this knowledge. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is...

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whose property he is watching? But he... He has got this business, very busy. As soon as some motorcycle or some..., "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" watching, watching, watching. So therefore this is business of cats and dogs. But human being's business is different. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India, bhārata-bhūmi..." Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra: "First of all make your life perfect"—you have got the opportunity, Vedic culture—"and then distribute the knowledge all over the world for doing good to the whole human society." That will glorify the prestige of India. So why not continue this? Let there be an institution fully following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So there are so many things that... The human society requires this knowledge and we are trying to give this knowledge alone with our humble attempt, and these foreigners are helping with their prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā, by their life, by their money, by their intelligence, by their words. (aside:) Give them pad. They cannot sit comfortably. There is pad. Give him. Pads. Yes. No, no. Oh. (Hindi) Sukham asinaḥ.(?) First of all one must... Give her. So we have got, at least in Bombay, the most important place in India, this institution. So come here. Try to understand the philosophy. There is no difficulty. But we neglect it. We are simply ne..., and distorting. Everyone is giving his own interpretation. Eh? Then when, where is the importance of Kṛṣṇa? If Bhagavad-gītā is a book who is authority, and if you interpret and give your own interpretation, then where is the authority? Suppose Parliament passes one law, and if I interpret in my own way, then where is the authority of the law? This is the idea. If you want to give some idea of your own, give it separately.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means we don't take any importance. But now, if you want to do something, then you maintain this institution rigidly, follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require many men. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient. You don't require millions of stars, twinkling. So let there be an institution, and it is open to everyone. There is no question of "secular" and particular.... Let them learn this art. That is wanted. Not blindly, but apply your consideration and take it after mature judgment. No, what is that? Everything is there. There is no difficulty. Why you are neglecting this important business of India? Do you think it is right?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata-bhūmi, especially in high family, it is the duty of every Indian to understand this sublime knowledge and distribute it to the world. Para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Because we have got this knowledge, everything. This knowledge you cannot have anywhere. Therefore scholarly people, man or elderly persons, many, they are accepting our books very nicely. In foreign countries... And Bhāgavata, it is not their religious book. We are selling... In Russia also we have got copies. What is that institution, they have ordered?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be named in Russian. It's the international institution which orders books.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has sacrificed everything for developing this institution.

etāvaj janma-sāphalyaṁ
dehinām iha dehiṣu
prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā
śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā

The birth of human life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service by life, by money, by intelligence, by words. Four, three, at least one.

etāvaj janma-sāphalyaṁ
dehinām iha dehiṣu
prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā
śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā

So did you read that book?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, I did. The commentations of Professor Trieste(?) is very interesting. But I liked one particular aspect of it. But the West has been almost ridiculing the evils of praising (indistinct) animal cult(?). For example it is ordinary or else it is extraordinary. There is a lot of difference in the (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: They do not know the value of the animals.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone."

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Why no other newspaper carried the story?

Prabhupāda: It is only because I disbelieved, he disagreed. (referring to Puruṣottama?) He disagreed with me from that moment. He thought me foolish that I do not believe scientific research.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was in London, I think. I remember.

Prabhupāda: He was a good boy, very good boy. Only for this reason he left. The whole institution he left. Where he is now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have not heard from him. Last time he was staying with St. Paul.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the incarnation of St. Paul.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Generally said, "This name will be like this. This name will be like this. Your son, grandson, great-grandson, what will be their names, this is..." So why shall we not believe just that statement of planetary system? If they are so correct... Planetary system is already there, but they are foretelling what in future, it will happen. That is my conviction. Therefore I do not believe anyone except Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. That is my science. They speculate. I don't believe it. Why shall I...? And in the beginning Vyāsadeva said, kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ: "Take only Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as the book of knowledge. Bas. You need not read any other." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam: (SB 1.1.3) "This is essence of all Vedic knowledge." (pause) There are so many gentlemen here. They want to give their property, house, outside Bombay, to this institution.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our gurukula should be ideal. Not all these boys... You should take care of these things from the very beginning—if you want actually spiritual life. If you want to progress like animals, that is different thing, as the whole world is doing. We want to maintain an ideal institution. People may see. In Christian idea also, the nuns were separate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays the nuns, every... Twice a week they get their hair set. They wear miniskirt now.

Prabhupāda: And so many scandal.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Yes? Next person? (break) (Bengali) By passing wind if there is somebody benefit, they'll not pass. Such a low-grade man. Therefore they are ruined, those men. There is not a single upright. You cannot expect that they will willfully, willingly...

Jayapatākā: No, we'll get that by hook or by crook.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is only... Sathe sārthaṁ samācaret.(?) They are first-class cheater. We shall cheat them. (laughter) Don't worry. This is only... They have ruined the institution, all third-class, fourth-class men.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That "Some way or other, we're keeping some position." And if Samvit kicked him out, then where is his position? That is another problem. This Rādhā-Govinda Mahārāja, what he can do if he's driven away? In this age he cannot have his own institution. And in this age where he'll go? They are... "These politicians, these old men, they cannot do now. So give them some false position, that 'You are president, ācārya.' They will not rebel at least." And as soon as they do something against them, "We shall drive away: 'No, you cannot be president. Another president.' " That's all. They had no love for him, neither he has any love for them. It is simply official.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...I stressed in other that in India strictly maintain an institution, following Bhagavad-gītā's conclusion. That we are trying to do. It is not a new invention. It is already there. If it is not possible to maintain such an institution, then human civilization will be finished. There is no hope. And it is now being effective worldwide. Why India should not maintain?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually he was very praiseworthy of your efforts. He said, "I know what Prabhupāda has done." If in some way Mr. Morarji Desai can be brought to you, that will be very...

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's a very big lion. He will not agree to come. You don't try for.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...in daytime, and four pounds flesh. Otherwise there will be vitamin, less vitamin. Or "Give them vitamins pills, this..." These... "Don't go to Yamunā. It is polluted."

Yaśodānandana: Even want to follow their textbook, follow their mundane textbook.

Prabhupāda: Keep this institution pure, not that we have to make it impure. Fighting, we want fighting. If we don't get, it will remain vacant, but we don't want to introduce impure. That should be a principle.

Yaśodānandana: Can all the children of the parents in our society send their children here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Yaśodānandana: I was thinking we have many parents.

Prabhupāda: It is for them. It is for them, not for the outsiders.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You bring students from all over the world. But according to our own selection. And if you make an ideal institution here, then the local men also will... The management is difficult. It is not so easy, that simply "I open my office here. I keep my bank here. I get my work." That is not management. Management is little difficult. Everyone is thinking, "Where to keep my leg? Where to keep my leg?" Nobody's thinking how to manage. The same thing, (Bengali). "Warning: Don't keep your head on the northern side." He says, "Oh, where is my head?" So I can give you suggestion. Now you... So Akṣayānanda has gone...

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, at that time they were so friendly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? They were respectful.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadans were also religious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: One Muhammadan gentleman, Dinuniya, he was formerly Hindu, but when there was some famine... (break) He also made so many charitable institutions. He had a majheev(?), one etimakhānā. Etimakhānā means orphan house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Means?

Prabhupāda: Orphan house. He was cutting throat of the chicken on the street.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). All prescription of material life, spiritual life, social life, political life, religious life, artistic life—Bhagavad-gītā is full of knowledge. At least in India there must be an institution that is strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. This is my institution. We don't want anything more, other help. We simply request them that "Give some of our men permanent residentship. We shall guide it(?)." That they'll institute...(?) What help... What is the harm? Have we got...

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has sent you to look after this Institution. And they are giving very good report that "Bhaktivedanta is..., is very big organization," and we have got land. Kindly try to improve it. Your wife is here?

Mr. Myer: Yes. She is also with me.

Prabhupāda: So how do you...? Things there are?

Mr. Myer: Things are... I think it will be matter of one month's time before we'll be able to centralize everything. Just now, at this moment, of course, operating slightly in different areas. But next month by this date we should be able to...

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Some sort of worship is there and instruction, many narratives. Women were advised to worship the Yamarāja, Sāvitrī, Satyavān. Then there was saṁskāras, purificatory method, out of which the higher class will be sacred thread ceremony. Always something spiritual, according to the... And actually learning Vedic knowledge, that was by the brāhmaṇas. They would give advice; people will follow. Brāhmaṇo jagato guruḥ. Just like Gargamuni came to Nanda Mahārāja. He took advantage of Gargamuni and performed some purificatory ceremony of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Why these big, big institutions for wasting time and dating between girls and boys, and then they learn expert how to kill child, how to make abortion? Expert. Simply concentration on sex. Then become hippie. Frustration. Worship hog. Do they not?

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Conscious that "I have been victimized by woman, a sannyāsī. So my career in this institution finished." He knows that. "Nobody will take me seriously." Therefore he left his daṇḍa, went away. Good son, another, but he cannot. Therefore several times I called him; he did not come, that "My career is finished." This consciousness, where you'll find? And here, even a man is fallen, he's also conscious, "How much I am fallen." (break) ...is that when a person is fallen, he is conscious that "I am fallen." (break) It was beaten.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's grace is always there, but we spoil Kṛṣṇa's grace. That is our business. "But Kṛṣṇa is giving us so much grace. Let us spoil it." That is our proposal. If there was no Kṛṣṇa's grace, how this institution would have come into existence? It was not possible, such a big institution, all by one man's endeavor, starting with forty rupees. Simply Kṛṣṇa's grace. So don't spoil that. This... This... That's not good. Then Kṛṣṇa will not help. Just like the father gives you money. If you squander that, He'll be very sorry. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so kind by giving me this opportunity." You should take things like that, not that "For nothing the father has given me so much money. Let me squander it." Have to work much for it. So anyway, Mr. Mani has said.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So with this cooperation, this institution will be very prestigious. So if it is possible, organize. But don't overburden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that overburden?

Prabhupāda: Other business may not suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Publishing books should not suffer, and lecturing, like that.

Prabhupāda: We have already place in Bombay.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, I am on the deathbed. I may go away at any moment. Then... Now it is up to you to give protection to the sanctity of our institution. Who else is there from the GBC?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, Jagadīśa.

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not here right now, but they are here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: He has gone to Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came back last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hm?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very carefully deal with them. They are trying to come into the institution to grasp the power gradually.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the point. I can understand that.

Prabhupāda: How much urine I passed?

Bhakti-caru: Ninety, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda has not drank that much yet. Did he have milk and barley water?

Bhakti-caru: Not today.(?) But he doesn't want to take barley and water. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'm going to take a short little rest now. Taking a little rest, just short. Then I'll come back.

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal with them. They want to enter into our management.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...depend on you. For me, wherever I am kept, I shall remain. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Wherever you are kept?

Prabhupāda: Wherever you kept, keep, I shall remain. The institution depends on the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think that the time that you always were looking forward to—of the GBC managing things—has come, and that if you can survive, then you can simply be free to translate...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...chant.

Prabhupāda: If I am sane, then I'll do. But in this condition... Ah, ha... Hm. What is to be done now?

Page Title:Institution (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Matea
Created:26 of Nov, 2008
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=192, Let=0
No. of Quotes:192