Māyā creates a car for you, a carrying conveyance, this body. So that conveyance is according to karma. So if you act piously in this life, then next life you get good body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). Sattva-sthā. If you are in goodness, then, in the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to higher standard of life. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. And if you are in passion, then you remain here. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you are ignorant, then you go to animal life or lower grade of life. This is the law of karma. But instead of improving your karma, karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra, fruitive activities, if you take to devotional service and simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you are no longer within the influence of this good work or bad work. You are transcendental. Immediately after death, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), you are no more subjected to this gross body... (break)
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Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
As soon as your assets of pious activities is finished, then you come back again. Instead of going back to home, you come back again on this Earth. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Going back. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: ei rūpe brahmāṇḍo bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva. In this way, we are wandering from one life to another, one planet to another. If one is fortunate, he gets the clue of devotional service and makes his life perfect and goes back to home, back to... Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "One who goes to My abode, he never comes back." This is the perfection. Doctor, Sir you are a scientist. So how do you think our explanation? Does it tally with your scientific...?
So the bhakti, bhakti cult... Everyone should take. Because that is natural. Natural. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Bhakti's not unnatural. Other things unnatural. That is the statement of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Eternally you are servant of Kṛṣṇa. But we have accepted the service of māyā, instead of Kṛṣṇa. And we are thinking we are independent. We are being kicked out every moment by māyā, and still I am thinking I'm God, I'm independent. This is called illusion. He's being slapped always, he's being kicked by māyā; still he's thinking that he's independent, he's God, he's big, he's minister, he is something, something, something. This is called māyā. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is called moha. So bhakti means to become freed from this moha, illusion. That is bhakti.
So dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). People are after these four things. Dharma. Dharma.
Simply you become attached with modern things. That is our proposition. We don't... Our, our proposition is that you do modern things. That is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
Modern things, you do, but you try to see whether you have become perfect by doing these modern things. Now you are engaged in modern things, and instead of being perfect, next life you get a body of hog and dog, then what is the benefit of these modern things? (end)
I am the origin of all creation, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, everything emanates from me. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2), Kṛṣṇa says. Devānām, from Brahmā, devānām means beginning with Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, then other devas, Indra, Candra. So Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām. I am the ṛṣīnām, all the ṛṣis, then prakṛti. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10), under my superintendence this material world is working. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ nama... Everything Kṛṣṇa is declaring, and the rascals say Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Just see the fault. And he's explaining Bhagavad-gītā. He should have explained that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, instead of his posing that Kṛṣṇa is unknown, He is black, dark.
So this science has to be understood. We are, everyone is after happiness, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). We are spiritual soul, spiritual spark. Our life is ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda. Eternal life, blissful life, life of knowledge. But we are put into this material condition which is ignorance, miserable and temporary. Just opposite. Instead of having eternal, blissful, knowledgeable life, we have got this body which is non-eternal, non-permanent, and always miserable in condition, and not blissful. Always miserable and always in ignorance. Just the opposite. So Kṛṣṇa is not like that. If we think of Kṛṣṇa like that, then it is a mistake. That Māyāvādī philosopher, they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa like that, that Kṛṣṇa is like me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. They are rascals, mūḍha. They are thinking there is something above Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because they have no knowledge, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know the paraṁ bhāva, the bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, they have no idea, they have no knowledge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, therefore, giving them the real knowledge. Kṛṣṇa, how He's enjoying. His, how He's joyful. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37).
So this world, however faithfully you give service, it will be never recognized—because it is hallucination, illusion. You are serving your senses. You are not serving any person. You are serving your senses. So when one comes to this position, he understands that "I am actually servant, but I am posing myself falsely as master." That is real sense. Then whose servant I am? I am Kṛṣṇa's servant. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and demands: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We have forgotten that. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's service. That is māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes again and again as Himself, as a devotee, or he sends His servitors, His Vaiṣṇava, to preach this cult, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Educate people to serve Kṛṣṇa, to serve Me." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. We are also preaching this cult, that "You serve Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are preaching this cult. So we are not manufacture anything. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing concocted. It is fact. Everyone is servant, but at the present moment he's serving māyā. So, instead of serving māyā, let him serve Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Sometimes, individually we fight. Just like in the legislative assembly, our representative, M.P.'s, they go and fight. There is a deliberation. But that purpose is to serve the country. Therefore, instead of the difference of opinions, they agree to work in this way. That is legislative assembly. Similarly, individuality there must be always, but when we find out a one means to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is oneness. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ (ISO 7). Eka. That is ekatvam. Why a... In other words, ekatvam... This is the version of the Īśopaniṣad, ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ. Ekatvam, at the same time, anupaśyataḥ. That means we are all spirit soul. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. That is anupaśyataḥ. And on this basis, when we find ekatvam, oneness, that is the platform of peace, that "We are all servants of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised this, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). When we feel that "Eternally I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, you are servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is ekatvam. Not that we become a lump of thing. No. Impersonality cannot be... Personality cannot be changed. Jīva-loke. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). This individuality is sanātana, eternal. But when we disagree to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is asanātana, not sanātana. That is artificial.
So if follow that policy that one who is born in India as brāhmaṇa, except him, nobody can become brāhmaṇa, then this Vedic civilization will be, in due course of time, lost. We should be very careful. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading Vedic culture outside India. And they are welcoming it, those who are intelligent, they are welcoming it. They are accepting it. We should encourage them. Instead of discouraging this movement, we should encourage, so that the whole world can be united on the platform of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If we simply hate low-grade families, low-grade men, that will not solve the problem. Just like when there was political movement in India, the Britishers, they presented so many problems. Just like the untouchables, the Muhammadans, and so many things. The Britishers they put forward these problems (because) they were not willing to separate the British rule. Only some high class, higher section of the Hindus, they are trying to separate the British rule. At that time, Gandhi stamped the camaras (?) and the bhaṅgis as harijana. But means as soon as there was the word "harijana," immediately a person would be considered coming from the camaras and the bhaṅgis. But such exalted title, harijana, is offered to personalities like Nārada, Brahma, those who are actually associates with Hari.
So we are trying to convince them in so many ways. There is no need of so many ways. The one, simple method, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, will be sufficient to make them perfect. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). The problems, bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mahā-dāvāgni, "great forest fire." Forest fire, we have no experience immediately, but in America, there is occasionally forest fire. They have got very good experience. There are many forests also. So the forest fire takes place automatically. Nobody goes to set fire. Similarly, in this material world the blazing fire is always there—problems, different problems. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. This will be extinguished immediately. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's saying. How? Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Simply by spreading this saṅkīrtana movement, all the problems of the world will be immediately mitigated. So to make people Vaiṣṇava, pure Vaiṣṇava, and to spread the saṅkīrtana movement, this is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and we are trying our best. Actually, it was the duty of the Indians, but fortunately, the Americans have taken up instead of Indians. Therefore I have brought them. The Indians... You are forgetting your duty. The foreigners are doing your duty. So you should welcome them, instead of driving them away by so many pleas. This is not very good. Yes.
Actually, that is the fact. People are engaged in so many activities. We can see it very nicely in the Western countries. They are inventing so many modern facilities. But the result is they're forgetting Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, there is nothing except Kṛṣṇa. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja, yes, Nārada Mahārāja said that "This world is Kṛṣṇa." Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. "But it appears like that it is different from Bhagavān." Actually, there is... For a mahā-bhāgavata, he has no such conception, material conception, because he sees everywhere Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). He's seeing one tree, but he is, he's forgetful of the tree. He's seeing energy of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as he sees the energy of Kṛṣṇa, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Therefore instead of seeing the tree, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Because one after, after, coming, reference to the context. As soon as he sees anything we call material, he sees this is the conversion of the energy. Pariṇāma-vāda. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Parasya bra... Just like as soon as you see the sunshine, you see immediately sun. Is it not? In the morning, as soon as you see within your window the sunshine, immediately you remember sun and you are confident sun is there. Without sun, how there can be sunshine? Similarly, whatever we see, if we immediately see Kṛṣṇa, with reference to that particular thing... Because that particular thing is the manifestation of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. So those who have understood Kṛṣṇa along with His energies, he sees the energy, because energy is not different from the energetic, he sees immediately Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, he does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa. So therefore, for him, there is no material world. There is no material world. To a perfect devotee, there is no material world. Everything is spiritual. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. He sees everything Brahman.
Yes. That is everywhere. Even in, in our society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society, if there is no mutual cooperation, then it will fall down immediately. So as Rūpa Gosvāmī advises, the first thing is enthusiasm, utsāhān. Utsāhān dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt... (aside:) Why Śyāmasundara is not here? Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅga ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. If you want actually to make progress in our devotional life, the utsāhān, enthusiasm, is the first thing. If you are lacking enthusiasm, then you should rest, instead of making too much agitation within the mind. The... If you cannot find out... Some, something has dropped in the water, in the river, you cannot see the things dropped within the water by agitating the water. Just stand still for sometimes. As soon as the water is settled up, you'll see the things as they are. So as soon as our enthusiasm is agitated, it is better to sit down in any temple suitable and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no question of being disappointed. After all, we commit so many mistakes. That is human nature. To err is human. That is not fault. But try to rectify with cool head. That is required. So similarly, there are different classes of men in the society: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. They should cooperate for the common cause. They do not know the common cause. The common cause is Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa's service, we should submit to the immediate officer or commander. Just like soldiers. Soldiers, there is no question of discrimination. Whatever is ordered by the commander, immediately done.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So that respect is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Guru also does not think himself that he is Kṛṣṇa, but he collects the devotional services of the disciples to offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. We cannot approach Kṛṣṇa directly. We should approach through guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). That is the injunction of the śāstra, that one should approach the guru who can transfer the service from the disciple to the Supreme Person. So... Therefore the first offering is guru, vande gurūn. Then guru creates many devotees. Guru's business is to canvass on behalf of Supreme Lord. That is guru's business. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), so, "You give up all material, engage..." Sarva-dharmān means in the material world we have created so many so-called duties. This is our material disease. People are interested in material engagements and they have created different varieties of engagements. Sociology, communism, and this "ism," that "ism," philanthropism, altruism, internationalism, nationalism—many, many duties they have created. That is all material. Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy... (children crying) Stop that children. Out of His causeless mercy, He comes, He descends. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Glānir, this is glānir. Human life is meant for one thing, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Supreme Absolute Truth. But instead of doing that, they have created so many "isms." That is their misfortune.
Here it is said that mat-sarvasva-padāmbhojau rādhā-madana-mohanau. One should take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Instead of taking shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he will take shelter of the lotus feet of some bogus. That's it. They are called manda-matayo, manufacturing something new: "This is our process of religion." They do not know that religion cannot be manufactured. Religion is eternal. Religion... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the law given by God. The God is eternal; therefore His law is eternal. So how we can manufacture? You cannot manufacture religion. God is eternal, and His law is also eternal. Therefore God personally comes, and He says that "You have manufactured so many religions, but that is not religion. You give it up. You give them up." Sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Give up all this nonsense." Then what should be my religion? Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that's all. This is eternal religion. Mām ekaṁ: "Only unto Me." The religion is very simplified, but still, people are... Because mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10), they have got some nasty ideas, they manufacture different types of religion. Religion is one. That is eternal. God is one. That is eternal. Take anything, like gold. Gold is gold, always gold. Millions of years ago the what was gold, the metal, the same metal is still there. You cannot say, "This is Hindu gold," "This is Muslim gold," "This is Christian gold." Gold is gold. Similarly, God is one. You cannot say, "This is Hindu God," "This is Muslim God," "This is Christian God." God is one, and eternal.
So this is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. They want to become one with the God, but we keep ourself always servant of God, and to become the best servant of God is also to become His father and mother. This is nandātmaja. Therefore one devotee prayed, aham iha śrī-nandaṁ vande yasyālinde paraṁ brahma, śrutim apare smṛtim itare. The devotee is praying that "Somebody is studying the Vedas, somebody is studying the Purāṇas, the smṛtis," śrutim apare smṛtim itare, "and somebody is studying Mahābhārata to understand God." But the devotee says, "I do not want to understand God. I want to worship Nanda Mahārāja, under whose..., in the courtyard of his house the Para-brahman is crawling." That is nandātma... That is the, I mean to say, superior position of nandātmaja, Nanda Mahārāja. So this is philosophy. Ordinary men cannot understand. But Vaiṣṇava philosophy is so nice that instead of becoming one with the Supreme, they want to become the father of the Supreme. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Nandātmāja. Rasika-śekhara. This is also a pleasure. Kṛṣṇa wants to be subordinate to His devotee as son so that He may be punished. He is punishing everyone, but He wants to be punished also. That is His pleasure. And who will punish Him? His father and mother, superior. Or superior lover, Rādhārāṇī, can punish Him.
So you cannot get out of this durgā simply by bribing, by satisfying. You have to satisfy Durgā in a different way, in a different way. Just like... These are very easy to understand, that if you are in prison house, if you satisfy the superintendent of jail, somehow... I have seen in Delhi that one man was... He was a very nice young gentleman, and he was typing. He was typing. So I was... He was a fair gentleman, very nice looking young man. So I talked with him, "What is your case of condemnation coming?" So he acted as a spy in some government secretarial department. So he was put into prison for ten years. But he was educated, he was intelligent, and he pleased the superintendent of jail. Therefore, instead of keeping him in ordinary cell, he was put into the office and type. Now, try to understand. This prisoner, by his satisfying the superintendent of jail, he is little given concession not to be placed in ordinary cell, but he is working (in) the office as a typewriter. Or he is given some... Or there are many political prisoners, they are given first-class bungalow, first-class residence, and all facilities. But the superintendent of police has no power to release him. That is not possible. That is not possible. Similarly, by bribing or by satisfying Durgā, you can get a comfortable position within this material world, but your real business is how to get out of it. That Durgā cannot give. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. So long you do not come to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa... Mām eva prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Unless you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no possibility of getting out of the clutches of māyā. That is not possible.
So these things are, I mean to say, creating havoc in the matter of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Instead of taking Bhagavad-gītā as it is, persons who have no knowledge practically, or poor fund of knowledge, they are commenting in different way, and people are misled. As sometimes our, these Europeans, Americans, they say frankly that "For many hundreds of years, the Bhagavad-gītā was known in Europe and America, and many swamis went there. They gave reference to the Bhagavad-gītā, but there was no, not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single devotee." Prior to this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they had not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa, as you are finding. Now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and they are understanding rightly, and they are becoming devotee. Anyone who will read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malcommentation, he'll become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And when he becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, accepting the principle, "Kṛṣṇa is all in all," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That position we have to attain. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching is based on that principle. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is His... He is Kṛṣṇa also. According to Vedic evidence, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇa. He belongs to the category of Kṛṣṇa, but He is playing the part of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in order to teach us how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to approach Kṛṣṇa. As such, if we accept the process enunciated by Lord Caitanya, then it is very easy to approach Kṛṣṇa.
That you have no intelligence to understand. But what is given by Vyāsadeva, that is accepted by all the ācāryas. We are not so learned as you are, but we follow the ācārya. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, ācāryopāsanam. You must follow the ācāryas, the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you'll get the real answer. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who follows the ācārya, he knows." Others, they do not know. So you cannot question "Why? How Vyāsadeva wrote?" That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sañjaya says vyāsa prasāda. How one can understand? By the mercy of Vyāsadeva. So we have to see. Instead of criticizing in that adverse way, we have to follow the ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam. So you'll find Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have accepted in that way. So what is the use of our questioning? We should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Otherwise it is not possible.
So actually nobody can be master; everyone is servant. Either we are servant of God or we are servant of dog. That's all. Nobody can be master. If anyone has no master, then he keeps a pet dog to become his servant. That is nature, we can see. One is servant of his wife, one is servant of his pet or government service or this service. Nobody can claim that "I am the master." That is not possible. That is also temporary. So actually this is the position of all living entities. Everyone is servant. But in the material sense, he is servant of māyā, servant of senses. Servant of māyā means servant of senses. And spiritual life means instead of becoming servant of māyā or servant of senses, we become the servant of Kṛṣṇa or God. That is the position. Servant we shall remain. We have to change the position. And if we become servant of God, then we become happy, and if we remain servant of dog or māyā, then we remain unhappy. This is the position. We have to change the position. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. One intelligent brāhmaṇa, he's offering, "My Lord, I have become servant of so many senses, but neither the senses are satisfied, neither I am satisfied. This is the result of my service. Therefore now I have got my intelligence that I want to become Your servant." This is intelligence.
There is a song, the devotee is singing that śīta ātapa bāta variṣaṇa. Śīta means severe cold, winter season, snow falling. That is called śīta. And scorching heat. You have no experience of scorching heat. In India we have got 110, 120, and I think Middle East, there is 135. Here you have got less, 50 in winter. So some way or other there is always trouble. This material world means we must suffer trouble. Either scorching heat or pinching cold or blast or ādhidaivika, ādhyātmika. These things should be discussed. But still we got to work, why? Only for love. That is the only cause. I love my children, I love my wife, or I love my country, my society. Love is there. But this love is not giving me satisfaction. We are disappointed. As I, yesterday I cited the example of Mahatma Gandhi. For his country's love, he did so much. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, and he wanted nonviolence. In this way he was organizing. But the world is so ungrateful that instead of unity of Hindu-Muslim, in India we experienced complete partition, Hindustan and Pakistan. So he was baffled. And so far nonviolence was concerned, he was killed by violence. So he died very disappointed. So everyone... This is giving the best example, typical example. Everyone. We are attached to the love of this material world, but we are all disappointed. From everyone's experience, you'll find. Everyone is disappointed. Both sides, the lover and the beloved, both sides. You have got very good experience in this country.
So śāstra therefore forbids or gives warning, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). The same example. With great endeavor, with much expenditure you may go eighty thousand miles per hour, but unless you get shelter, you have to again come back to this, either in America or Russia. They tried, but they could not get shelter. Similarly, the one may understand that he is spirit soul and he may try his best to merge into the spiritual effulgence, Brahman—ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I shall remain in Brahman"—but because he is person, the impersonalism condition will not be helpful to him, and because he has no personal view of the supreme spirit—he cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa—naturally he again comes back to this material world and surrenders to the material subject matter. Sometimes he is engaged in philanthropic work or altruistic work. He thought, "This is the best service. instead of serving myself, let me serve the whole humanity, whole community, whole nation," so on, so on, so on. But they are all asad-dharma. They are not sad-dharma.
Bheda means difference, and abheda means one. Two philosophies are going on. The Māyāvādīs, they say, "We are the same." So 'ham: "I am the same." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am the Supreme Brahman." But the Vedic literature says, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but Kṛṣṇa, or God, is Param Brahman. In the Vedas there is no such thing as ahaṁ paraṁ brahmāsmi. No. They are misusing. The... Instead of understanding... Brahman, every one of us, we are Brahman. There is no doubt about it. But unfortunately, by mistake, by illusion, I am thinking, "I am this body." So spiritual education means first of all one has to understand that ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this body." That is the beginning of spiritual education.
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
One has to become first of all... Not become. Just to understand one has to come to the platform of Brahman. Then spiritual education begins.
So the answer was given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī that "This very question was also put to Kṛṣṇa by your grandfather. So instead of answering myself, I'll put that very question and answer between your grandfather and Kṛṣṇa." So what is that? "Now, a similar question was put by your grandfather Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa answered like this." What is that? Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ: (SB 10.88.8) "If I do somebody some special favor, then My first duty is I become him crushed in all material possessions." You see? Why? "Because to make him more surrendered to Me." When he becomes helpless, he has no other way. "Kṛṣṇa, please take me." When he has something, he thinks, "Oh, these things will protect me, my material possessions." Therefore he does not surrender. Now, Kṛṣṇa sees that "This man, this living entity, is very much devotee, but he wants something, this nonsense. So crush him so that when he'll feel helpless, he will come to Me. No more. So I'll give him all protection." So there is a policy of Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes He puts us into test, whether we are sincerely devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Because we are always after sense gratification, so if Kṛṣṇa is not a order-supplier, then one rejects Kṛṣṇa. We want God, or Kṛṣṇa, to be our order-supplier. So we must order Kṛṣṇa, "Give me this. Give me that. If You cannot give me, then what are You, Kṛṣṇa? I don't want You." This sort of bhakti, or devotional service, is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.
Just like Lord Rāmacandra. When He came, He accepted only one wife, accepted only one wife. And even when that wife was banished... You know that. Sītā. Sītā. He (She) was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Lord Rāma fought with him, killed the whole family and installed his brother in that kingdom and rescued Sītā and brought home. So He was living with Sītā. But some of the śūdras, they criticized, "Oh, just see Rāmacandra. He is king. He is very powerful. He is living with His kidnapped wife." Because in India once a woman goes out of home—still the culture is—you cannot be..., she cannot be accepted any more. She has to live just like prostitute. She has no shelter. But when this, I mean to say, popular opinion was there... But He was king. He has to take the criticism of the public. Just like at the present moment the president, they don't care for public opinion, irresponsible. They say, "Responsible government." They are most irresponsible. But formerly, although there was monarchy, they were very much responsible. As soon as there was some criticism from the public, Rāmacandra at once banished Sītā: "Oh, I cannot live with Sītā. Public opinion is against it." Just see. He is following the rules and regulations. His father told Him, "My dear boy, I wish that instead of being enthroned, please go to the forest." "All right, it is your order. I must carry." Just see. He is following the principle. He is ideal... Rāmacandra is ideal king means He has followed the principle of moral codes. But Kṛṣṇa's behavior, you will find there is no moral code. He is free. At night He is calling girls, "Come on," and dance with Him. They were coming. From material point of view it is immoral, at least in India. But He is free. Rāmacandra accepted one wife. He accepted sixteen thousand wives.
So we have discussed the different names of Manu, the father of man. In different millenniums there are different Manus, and the present Manu is Vaivasvata Manu. Out of the fourteen Manus, now it is, the eighth Manu is going on at the present moment. That means this is about one o'clock in the day of Brahmā, just past noon. It is going to be afternoon. And during Brahmā's sleeping time all these planets will be, I mean to say, not annihilated, but inundated, you see, devastation with water. So after the finishing of these fourteen Manus here will be evening, night, and there will be devastation, and half of this universe, up to the sun planet, or above that, everything will be covered with water. Instead of air, there will be water. Then again there will be again... This is kaṇḍa-pralaya. And mahā-pralaya means, when Brahmā dies, then everything is finished.
The history of Bhīṣma is that he was son of Ganges. So Ganges was his mother, and his father, Mahārāja Śāntanu, after the death of his mother, he wanted to marry again. At that time, Bhīṣma was elderly. He was about twenty years old. So father, instead of getting the son married, he was himself very much anxious to get him married. So he selected a very beautiful girl, but she..., he belonged to a, that girl belonged to a low-caste family. Kṣatriyas could find, marry from anywhere. That is the injunction. They are not within the boundary of caste system. So the girl was a fisherman's daughter. So Mahārāja Śāntanu wanted to marry that girl, and the father was very cunning. He said, "No, no. I cannot offer my daughter to you. You are old man. You have got your son. So I cannot offer." He was bargaining. "No? Why? I shall give your daughter a palace. We shall enjoy so many years." "No. I can offer you my daughter provided if my daughter's son becomes the king after your death. Then I can offer." "Oh, that I cannot agree, because my eldest son is living. That I cannot agree."
So that expertness, that part of expert endeavor, is Kṛṣṇa. So we should not think, "Oh, because Kṛṣṇa is gambling also, so let us engage and devote in gambling." No. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Kṛṣṇa is everything, but we have to select favorably, not unfavorably. Svalpaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without Brahman, without Kṛṣṇa, nothing can exist. Everything existing on His energy. The same example can be given that every department is government department. Therefore, if a prisoner says, "Yes, I am in government department," that sort of knowledge is not very good. "Because prison department is also criminal department, is also government department, so instead of becoming in the university department, let me go to the criminal department." That is not congenial. We have to select. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa says that every dhāma, every place, belongs to Him, but yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: (BG 15.6) "There is an eternal dhāma, where going nobody comes back. That is My supreme dhāma."
That means the condition of the atheists are always abominable. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān (BG 16.19). Saṁsāreṣu. Saṁsāra means this material entanglement. This is called saṁsāra. And narādhama. They are called the lowest of the human kind, because human life is especially meant for God realization, self-realization. So instead of realizing oneself and the Supreme Self, if one derides, doesn't want to understand what is God, what is God consciousness, what is Kṛṣṇa, he is to be understood as the lowest of the mankind, narādhama. Adhama means lowest. Or, in other words, he is an animal in the form of a man. Narādhameṣu. And birth after birth, such atheist is put into the species of life where there is no chance of understanding God. There are different species, we have discussed. Even in human society there are some species or class, that it is not possible for them to understand what is God at all. Not even the idea.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
We cannot imagine, we cannot see even atoms with your naked eyes. Unless six atoms combine together, you cannot see. One atom we cannot see. Paramāṇu, aṇu paramāṇu. If six paramāṇu combines in, one becomes atom. There are so minute divisions. So, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). So we worship... Brahmā says tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. I am worshiping that Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we are disciplic succession from Brahmā. Therefore our process is to follow the footsteps of ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, for making progress in knowledge, one has to worship ācārya, ācāryopāsanam. So by paramparā system we follow. How Govinda enters, that doesn't matter. We do not bother about that thing. That is not our business. How Govinda enters in the atom, that is not our business. Our ācārya says, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham, He enters. We accept, that's all. Our business is finished. This is Vedic way of understanding. We take knowledge from the authority and do not bother unnecessarily speculating. We don't waste our time in that way. Our time is very valuable. Instead of researching how Govinda enters in the atom, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, utilize that time. So this line is very nice. Every knowledge is perfect there from the disciplic succession. You take it and be advanced, that's all. We don't bother much.
So this life is meant for brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring, "What is Brahman?" Instead of inquiring Brahman, they are trying to kill Brahman. "There is no soul. There is no Supersoul. It is nature automatically becoming this." These nonsense things are being pushed within the, this rubbish brain of the human society. They cannot explain. They cannot give right understanding. Still, they will say, "I am scientist. I am philosopher. I am this. I am that." But your business... What is your business? Now, direct people wrongly, to go to hell. So this is not life. Life is athāto brahma jijñāsā: "This human form of life is meant for inquiring Brahman." And if you engage yourself in this Brahman business, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, rest assured, Kṛṣṇa will take care of you. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 10.10) "I take care personally for their necessities of life." Ordinarily, Kṛṣṇa, or God, is taking care of everyone even if he's not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and those who are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what to speak of them? Special care by Kṛṣṇa. Rest assured. Engage yourself rigidly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be happy. That is our program.
But because we are foolish, we think... Not only think. Sometimes we are put into difficulty by the laws of nature, starvation. Just like if you eat more and then next two days you cannot eat; you have to starve. Similarly the difficulty in this material world is that we take more than what we need; therefore we have created problems. Otherwise there is sufficient supply from God's side. There is no scarcity, no problem. We have created problems. Just like in your country sometimes I have heard that you throw away grains, thousands of tons of grains, in the water. That means you have enough food. But there are countries who are starving. So it could be adjusted by sending this food. Instead of throwing in the water, they could be sent to the starving countries. But people will not do that. The point is from God's arrangement, there is enough food within this planet. There is enough land, enough food-producing prospect. But we have arranged in such a way that in one part the people are suffering, and one part, they are throwing the grains in the water. This is not God's arrangement. This is our arrangement. Therefore the problems are created by men. Now the so-called politician, they create problems. Otherwise, by nature's ways, by God's way, everything is complete.
Festival Lectures
So the whole process is to rectify, to purify your senses. And the purified sense means instead of using the senses for this so-called material happiness, one has to utilize the senses for happiness of Kṛṣṇa. That is purified sense. The example, the vivid example, is Arjuna. Arjuna was not willing to fight to satisfy his senses. He thought, "If I do not kill my brother or nephews or my grandfather or my teacher, the other side, that will make me happy. If they are killed, then where is my happiness?" This is material calculation, because he was giving more importance to the material body, what is his brother, what is his grandfather or teacher? He was seeing the material. Just like what is our calculation? I am thinking somebody my friend and another body as my enemy. Why? Because I make distinction on the bodily platform. I say, "American? Oh, they are my friends. Russians? They are my enemies." Why? What is the platform of this distinction? The platform is body. Because one has got the Russian body by some way or other, another bod..., has got American body, I am making distinction. So this distinction is on the material platform. And the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction because it is simply spirit.
So there was no necessity of motorcar. Now you have got motor, motor-tractor. You don't want the bullocks. Therefore kill them. How you can utilize them? Therefore you must have slaughterhouse to kill them. And as soon as you kill them, then you have to eat them. So this is the, I mean to say, entanglement. If you kill, then you become responsible for being killed. The subtle laws...
Therefore, without knowing our ultimate goal of life is Viṣṇu, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum... (SB 7.5.31). That is our interest. The human form of life is offered by nature after so much evolutionary process. Just to understand Viṣṇu, God, this is the only business. But instead of attending our real business, we are trying to be happy in other ways. Then you can say that "If we are engaged in real business, then how the economic question will be solved? We have to work." That's all right, you work. But work simple. Why you have invented so much botheration? Work is there. If you have cows and if you have got land, then you till the land, get grains, and there is milk, there is fruit, there is flower. Anywhere, you can live peacefully. Whole economic question is solved. And because we have forgotten, we have missed the real point, that our life is meant for God-realization. We are simply increasing botheration. Punaḥ punaś carvita. Adānta-gobhir viṣatāṁ tamisram. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. The leaders are blind; we are also blind.
Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they are thinking that by so-called economic development, by exploiting material resources, we shall be happy. That is not possible. The best example your country has given. You have exploited the material resources, and other countries are also following, but where is the happiness? Instead of happiness, there is "hippyness." (laughter) So still, they have no eyes to see that "Where we are going?" Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram punaḥ punaś carvita-carvanānām (SB 7.5.30). Because we cannot control our senses, we are driving, we are being pushed towards the darkest region of material existence, very hard to leave. Darkest region means that we are going to become animals next life. Because this is animalistic civilization. Nature gave us the opportunity to realize God, but God-realization is meant for human being. The human being, if he does not realize God, he's simply engaged in animalistic way of life—eating, sleeping, mating—then nature will call, "All right, sir, again become animal." Punar mūṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." You know this story? Punar mūṣiko bhava. There is a story. There is a very nice story.
So you are..., you stop payment by importing some machine, now you have to pay that money to the government. This is called entanglement. This is a crude example. I don't say that you stop all this business, but the material world is like that. You want to solve something; instead of solving, you'll create so many problems. This is material life. Because our life is not meant for solving problems and creating problems. Our life is meant for understanding God. Then everything is all right. But that you have given up.
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
They do not know that you cannot go an inch beyond the stringent laws of material nature. That is not possible.
So in this way Prahlāda Mahārāja talked with his father, and the father became more angry. Instead of taking the lesson ... Mūrkhāya upadeśa hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you teach lesson to a foolish person, he'll be simply angry. He'll not take your lesson. How it is so? Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you keep a snake and if you want to make friendly behavior with him, that, "My dear snake, don't bite any more. I'll give you milk and banana. You eat here and stay here nicely," he'll not... His poison will increase, and one day he will... There is a story in the Hitopadeśa: one day, one... The same thing. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So these are lessons, stories. So his father, Hiranyakasipu, became more and more angry. So one day... Because after all, son and father... The son was simple boy. So one day he said, "Prahlāda, I shall now kill you. I shall see how your Kṛṣṇa saves you." So immediately, Prahlāda was seeing to the pillars of the hall. He was king. So Hiraṇyakaśipu asked him, "Is your God, Kṛṣṇa, in the pillar?" He said, "Yes, sir. Yes, my father, He is there." So immediately, with anger he broke the pillar and Nṛsiṁha-deva came out.
Therefore in Vṛndāvana you will see all devotees, they will address one another, "Jaya Rādhe." Still. Because they know that "If Rādhārāṇī is pleased, if I can please Rādhārāṇī..." Rādhārāṇī is presented, the original pleasure potency, always absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who comes before Rādhārāṇī to serve Kṛṣṇa, oh, She becomes so pleased, "Oh, here is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." She immediately recommends, "Kṛṣṇa, oh, here is a devotee. He is better than Me." This is Rādhārāṇī. I may be a, not devotee. I may be most fallen rascal. But if I try to reach Kṛṣṇa through Rādhārāṇī, then my business is successful. Therefore we should worship Rādhārāṇī first. That is our business. Instead of offering directly one flower to Kṛṣṇa, you just put it in the hands of Rādhārāṇī: "My mother Rādhārāṇī, Jagan-mātā, if you kindly take this flower and offer it to Kṛṣṇa." "Oh," Rādhārāṇī says, "Oh, you have brought a flower?" Kṛṣṇa said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), but don't try to offer Kṛṣṇa directly. Just offer through Rādhārāṇī. It will be very much appreciated by Rādhārāṇī.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to induce people to become daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ instead of becoming asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. So how this can be done? This is possible if you approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu or His representative. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī. He's approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu with right humbleness, that "I am lowest of the mankind, most abominable associated." Therefore the Bhāgavata says, "Who requires a guru?" Guru is not a fashion, that "Everyone has a guru. Let me possess a guru, and let me do all nonsense." Not like that. One must be very serious to accept a guru. Unless one is very serious... What is that seriousness? The seriousness is to know God, "What is God? What is my relationship with Him?" This is seriousness. Those who are not serious to know God and act godly, they do not require to seek after a guru. There is no necessity. Don't make it a fashion to have a guru. Generally, they make it a fashion that "Everyone has a guru, so let me have a guru also." No. The Bhāgavata says, gives this direction, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta (SB 11.3.21). Guruṁ prapadyeta. To approach guru means fully surrendered unto him. As Kṛṣṇa demands, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Therefore when I have to surrender, I have to surrender to the Supreme and the representative of the Supreme. They are surrendered. Not anywhere. So Bhāgavata says, gives this direction, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Guruṁ prapadyeta. To approach guru means fully surrendered unto him. As Kṛṣṇa demands, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Therefore when I have to surrender, I have to surrender to the Supreme and the representative of the Supreme. They are surrendered. Not anywhere.
Yes. So the warning is there. But still they're smoking. Why? Pramattaḥ. And vikarma. They have given warning that it is not good for health. Warning is there in every cigarette package, packet, but because he has become mad after that bidi and cigarette, he kurute vikarma. Although it is forbidden, he's still taking advantage of it. Just see how Bhāgavata writes frankly: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Pramattaḥ. These mad persons, persistently committing sinful activities, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Why? Yad indriya prītaya āpṛṇoti, simply for the satisfaction of sense. Not for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction is that "You give up all this nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." But instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, he has surrendered to bidi and cigarette. Yes. This is going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Ṛṣabhadeva said, "This is My proposal." Na sādhu manye. "My dear friends, you are doing wrong." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Ātmanaḥ, the spirit soul, ātmā, is pure, but because you wanted to smoke bidi and cigarette, you have got this body. Otherwise, spirit soul is pure.
So pravṛtti means we are dictated by our kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, and we should agree to be dictated by Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is intelligent. Pravṛtti, nivṛtti. Our pravṛtti is to abide by the dictation of the senses, and when we learn not to abide by the dictation of the senses but to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, then your life is successful. This teaching, this learning, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not difficult. Everyone can do it. Simply he has to change: instead of being dictated by the senses, one should be dictated by Kṛṣṇa. That requires qualification. Kṛṣṇa is there, in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is not far away, but you have to search out where is Kṛṣṇa within your heart. That is called yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, those who are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa by the yoga process... The yoga means controlling the senses. Without controlling the senses you cannot practice any yoga. Nowadays it has become a fashion, meditation yoga, but that is not bona fide. That is not only (not) bona-fide; that is farce. Real yoga is controlling the senses and concentrating the mind to the Supreme Person. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). That is the... And farce yogi is going like that.
Therefore this nivṛtti means tapasya. If I am habituated to smoke, if I am habituated to illicit sex life, if I am habituated to intoxication and gambling, etc., this is my pravṛtti. But if we can stop it by practice, that is called tapasya. And human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddyeta satyam (SB 5.5.1). Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction: "My dear sons, you practice tapasya." The human life is meant for tapasya. "I have got tendency to do this, but that will not help me, that will degraded me." So tapasya means instead of being degraded, be elevated. This is called tapasya. Tapo divyam. This human life is meant for this purpose, to practice tapasya, or to practice nivṛtti. Then our life is successful. Tapo divyam. Why tapasya, why nivṛtti? Yena śuddhyena sattva. Sattva means here existence is impure. Impure means that you are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), you do not die after the annihilation of this body, but I am subjected to repetition of birth and death, in different species of life. This is my disease. It is not pure condition of life.
So "Forgotten Kṛṣṇa, we fallen souls, pay most heavy the illusion's toll." Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa we are paying heavy, heavy toll, tax, taxation. What is that taxation? The taxation is nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa, but instead of understanding Kṛṣṇa, we are understanding the so-called material science for sense gratification. This is our position. The energy which was given by nature to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is being utilized how to manufacture something for sense gratification. This is going on. This is māyā, illusion. Therefore it is, "Pay most heavy the illusion's toll." Toll tax. That we are paying because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa; therefore now we have manufactured the nuclear weapon—Russia, America—and you will have to pay heavily. They are already paying heavily. The armament preparation is going on. More than fifty percent of the income of the state are now being spent for this arm..., heavily. Instead of other purposes, it is being spent for military strength, every state. So that heavy toll we are paying. And when there is war there is no limit how much we are spending for this devastation. So why? Because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. This is a fact.
Sambandha nāhi jār, bṛthā janma gelo tār. So if you have no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu... Nityānanda means always. Nitya means always, ānanda means pleasure. This is another meaning you can draw. So therefore, if you have no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu... Se tār: "He's simply wasting time." Bṛthā means useless. Uselessly, he's wasting time. Se paśu boro durācār. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has used very strong word. "Anyone who has no connection with Nityānanda Prabhu, he's a paśu." Sei paśu. He's a paśu, means animal. So animal, how one animal can get happiness? That is not possible. The dog, from the childhood he's searching after food, searching after food. And cannot get food. Unless a dog has got a master, he's street dog and he's always unhappy. So better to become a dog of Nityānanda Prabhu. Then we shall be happy. Instead of becoming dog of so many other people... Everyone is dog. Everyone is searching after to serve a master. But none of them are satisfied because that is false master. You take real master, Nityānanda Prabhu. You'll be happy.
Bhakti means one has to engage his all senses for the satisfaction. Material life means sense satisfaction for his self: "I like this. I like this. I want to do something. I want to sing something or chant something, eat something, or touch something, or taste something. This is something..." That means using the senses. That is the material life. "I want to touch such soft skin. I want to taste such, what is called, nice food. I want to smell like this. I want to walk like this." The same thing—walking, tasting, touching, or anything—should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Instead of touching something else, if we touch the sanctified lotus feet of a devotee, that touch will be utilized. Instead of eating nonsense, if we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, it will be all right. Instead of smelling something else, if we smell the flowers offered to Kṛṣṇa... So nothing is stopped. If you want to use your sex life, yes, you can use for producing Kṛṣṇa conscious children. Nothing is stopped. Simply it is purified. That's all. This is the whole program. There is no question of "Stop this." Stop cannot be. How it can be stopped? Suppose I am a human being. If somebody says, "Oh, you cannot eat," is it possible? I must eat. So there is no question of stopping. The question is purifying it. So... And the other philosophy is to, I mean to say, snub down forcibly, make it void, just like they say, "Just become desireless." They advocate. So how can I be desireless? Desire must be there. But I shall desire for Kṛṣṇa.
Today, the auspicious day of our predecessor spiritual master, Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śata Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's mission... Apart from his life, we are especially stressing on the mission of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. This place, Māyāpur, was formerly known as Miyapura. Mostly it is inhabited by the Muhammadans. Some way or other it converted into the name of Miyapura instead of Māyāpur. Still, people are very much doubtful where is the birth site of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was researching to find out the actual place. So under the direction of Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, this present Yogapīṭha was ascertained to be the birth site of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in the beginning wanted to develop this place very gloriously, befitting the holy name of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he started this movement of developing Māyāpur. He could not finish it, so it was handed down to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. So under his effort, assisted by his disciples, this place has gradually developed, and our attempt is also to develop this place. Therefore we have named this temple Māyāpur Chandrodaya. We have got great ambition to develop this place nicely and gloriously, and fortunately we are now connected with foreign countries, especially with the Americans. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's great desire was that the Americans would come here and develop this place and they would chant and dance along with the Indians.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Prabhupāda: Now, this is our talking, that the first-class religion is that which teaches how to love God. Try to understand this. This is the simple formula.
Reporter: Yes, but don't you think it's worth going over there to try and help them?
Prabhupāda: We shall see. Suppose you are Christian. If you have developed your sense of loving God, then you are perfect, your religion is perfect. But instead of loving God, if you have developed your sense of loving dog, then you have wasted your time. That is our test. Yes. You want to ask any question?
Reporter: I think the lady wants to take you away somewhere. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Reporter (2): I think that the wind is up.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Reporter: I should just like to know how old you are.
Prabhupāda: I am? I am seventy-four years old. I was born in 1896.
Reporter: Whereabouts?
Prabhupāda: In India, Calcutta.
Jayatīrtha: Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: But will that method save from death? When the death will come, will the sound "Go!" (laughter) will save them? This is foolishness. Instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they are resounding some sound, thinking that the sound will save him. This is called foolishness, mūḍha. (karate men begin shouting very loudly) Piśācī pāile jane mati-cchanna haya. And if you ask them that "Why you are sounding so loudly? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will laugh. (chuckles)
Viṣṇujana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what did Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura mean when he said, "I am going, my work unfinished"?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Viṣṇujana: When Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura stated that he was leaving this planet with his work unfinished.
Prabhupāda: Then let us finish. We are descendant of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So he kept unfinished so that we shall get the chance to finish it. That is his mercy. He could have finished immediately. He is Vaiṣṇava, he is all-powerful. But he gave us chance that "You foolish people, you all also work." That is his mercy. So we should pray to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that "We are your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, so we have got some right to beg some mercy from you. The grandchildren get some indulgence from the grandfather. So I pray like that." It is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's mercy. A Vaiṣṇava can... Kṛṣṇa doesn't require anyone's help. Still, He is asking, "Surrender to Me." He doesn't require anyone's surrender. But it is for him good, one who surrenders. Not Kṛṣṇa is in need of anyone's service. He is complete. But He comes as if He is in helpless condition and asking for us to surrender. So that is for his good. One who is surrendered, he'll get the result. Kṛṣṇa is self-sufficient. Similarly, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is self-sufficient. But if he said that "I (am) keeping unfinished," that means he gave us the chance, the opportunity. So we should always pray to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura to be merciful upon us so that we can execute his unfinished task. That should be our... And never we should think that "What Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura could not finish, I have finished." Don't think like that. It is not like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, eka ki āmāra nāhi pāya. (pause) You have not given index. That I have instructed. You should now prepare index.
Just coming here from Philadelphia we were talking with the aeroplane crews, the captain, the pilot. They (were) very patiently hearing us. The question was very intelligent, question pilot made, that "If everything is created by God..." Yes. That is a fact. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Vedānta-sūtra says everything is emanated from God. Without a thing being present in God, there cannot be any existence of anything. That's a fact. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So his question was, "Then what is this evil?" The evil is also God's creation. So I explained like this, that for God there is no good or evil; everything is good. So I gave him this example that good, or piety, that is God's frontage, and evil means God's back side. So taking this example, the chest or the back of my body, they are equal. It is not that when there is some pain on the back side I don't care for it; I simply take care of when there is pain in the chest. No. Although it is back side, it is as important as the front side. Then evil and good is also of the same importance? No. Evil... That I gave the example, that for God there is nothing evil. I gave another example. Just like the sun, there is no darkness. Anywhere of sun's body, there is no darkness. But for us there is light and darkness. Just like if you keep the sun back side, you will find darkness, a very long darkness, your shadow. And if you keep yourself in front, sun, there is no darkness. So it is my business; I create darkness. As soon as I change my position—instead of remaining in front of God, I keep God back side—then there is darkness. Otherwise there is no question of darkness. But in the sun as it is, there is no such darkness. Therefore God is all good. And for us, when we forget God, that is evil. And when we are in God consciousness always, everything good. Is that example all right?
So in the Western countries, they are very much fond of keeping best friend, the dog. So at the time of death if you think of your favorite dog, then in next life you become dog. But you cannot surpass the nature's law. This is the nature's law. So one gentleman, what is his name? Fisher? In Detroit, he had two dogs, and he buried them in silver casket. He was very rich man and his house is very big palace. But at the time of death, if he was thinking of this dog, and if he becomes dog next, then what is the value of this material advancement? Therefore, intelligent man shall always think of Kṛṣṇa so that at the time of..., if he is able to think of Kṛṣṇa, his life is successful. So instead of loving dog if you love God, Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. I think this one. Thank you very much. (end)
Indian lady: Mahārāja, don't you think it's high time that our Indian philosophy or Indian religion, some classes should be started in schools like they used to have? Missionaries used to have scripture classes in school. There should be in all the schools, I mean, classes on our own religion instead of learning somebody else's.
Prabhupāda: It is not only... When we say that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā... (BG 2.13). So as this boy, he was a child, now he has become a boy, then after few years he'll become a young man. And then he'll become middle-aged man, then he'll become old man. So this is not our religion, your religion. This is fact. Scientific. When Bhagavad-gītā says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, that is not meant for the so-called Hindus. It is meant for the Muslims, meant for the Christians, everyone. It is science. Religion is a kind of faith. That they describe. But religion is also not a blind faith. Religion means the order of God. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law means the order of the state. Similarly, religion means the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know what is God, what is order, then where is religion? It is all bogus.
Initiation Lectures
So this firm conviction is the beginning of initiation. The Bhagavad-gītā teaches this firm conviction gradually. And ultimately the Lord says, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "My dear Arjuna, you give up all other engagement. Just be engaged in My service or be engaged in executing My order." "Then what about other things?" Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. If somebody thinks that "If I give up all other engagements and simply be engaged in Your service, to carry out Your order, then what about my other engagements? I have got so many other duties. I am engaged in my family affairs, I am engaged in my social affairs, I am engaged in my country's affairs, community affairs, so many things, my... Then what about those things?" Kṛṣṇa says that "That I will see, how you can do it properly." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a military man. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up all your engagements." That did not mean that Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna gave up his engagement as a military man. To give up all other engagements means to give up the engagements of your sense gratification. Instead of... At the present moment, with all our activities we are trying to gratify our senses. That's all. And surrender to Kṛṣṇa means the beginning of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti. What is that bhakti? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become free from all designations.
That is different thing. Just like you have got the blood of your father. That does not mean you are father. That is different thing. Everything is one: Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between the philosophy of Māyāvāda and Vaiṣṇava. They simply take the One, but we take One, but there is diversity. That they do not understand. Actually, unity... Diversity in unity. Monism means they do not accept the diversity. They simply take that oneness. Oneness is certainly—there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "I am everywhere spread." Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. "Everything, whatever you see, that is I am, but I am not there." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). They are existing. Everything existing in Kṛṣṇa. But that does not mean... Just like this table. The table is also Kṛṣṇa in one sense, because it is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore this is not different from Kṛṣṇa. But if you think that "Instead of worshiping Kṛṣṇa, let me worship this table," that is wrong, nonsense. This is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. The Māyāvāda philosophy says that even if I worship the table, it is all right. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. It is Māyāvāda philosophers said. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, table is existing in Me. I am also table. But I am not there." You see in the Bhagavad-gītā. So never think like that, that "I am Bhīṣma" or "I am Prahlāda" or "I am..." No. You are always servant of such devotee. That's all.
So similarly, Kṛṣṇa's name, we should not try to exact some material profit by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That is not pure devotion. Sarva... What is called? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). We shall simply aspire to serve Kṛṣṇa. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means, "He Kṛṣṇa, my Lord Kṛṣṇa." He, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare, "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is the sum total meaning of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Simply praying, "Please engage me," that is real profit. Not that "Please give me, instead of hundred dollars, give me thousand dollars." No. This is not pure devotion. You should all understand this. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Completely freed from any material desire. That is pure devotion. That will make you happy. Go on. Go on with... You are finished?
He, he's announcing that he's the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. You know that rascal? Very well. Yes. He wanted to study from Sanskrit from the rascal. You could not understand that I see. So śāstra says, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. One should not hear from. Why? Kṛṣṇa kathā is nice. Why should not be heard from a person who is not a devotee, but he may be scholar? But Sanātana Goswami says, śravaṇaṁ na kartavyam. Never. So the reason the example here is given, sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Milk, everyone knows milk is very nourishing food, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent it is poison. You can say "Milk is very nice. What is the wrong if it is touched by the serpent?" But Sanātana Goswami warns that it is not to be touched, because it has become now poison. Instead of milk it has become poison. So you should be very careful not to discuss. It is meant for the kaniṣṭha adhikārī, those who are neophytes. They may be affected, but those who are strong enough, advanced, they are not affected. But that is different thing, generally.
Nobody wants to become old, and where is the freedom? Everyone becomes old. But I have got the desire. Even old man, old woman tries to remain young by cosmetic help, to be good looking, and where is the freedom? By nature he is becoming bad looking. So there is no freedom. It is false idea, freedom. Nobody wants to die; death is sure. (aside:) He's sleeping. Nobody wants to become old; he's becoming old. Nobody wants to take birth... Of course, that is very higher stage. Jñānī, they want mukti; that is also not possible. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19)? To stop death, to stop birth, is not possible unless one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one (sic) does not come to the position of loving Kṛṣṇa, there's no question of freedom. That is the nature's law. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Instead of loving Kṛṣṇa, we have habituated, we have developed a consciousness to love dog. Just like in your country they say, "Dog is the best friend." So instead of loving God, they have learned to love dog. But nature ways is that you have to forget loving dog, you have to come to the position to love God. That is nature's way. Therefore there is no freedom. There is no freedom. Just like a citizen becomes criminal. The criminal department, the prison, just to correct him: "Unless you become a good citizen, you'll have to be punished in this prison house." Similarly, our real position is to love God, to love Kṛṣṇa. Unless we are on that platform of loving God, the nature will give us trouble. There is no freedom. We should try to understand it. There's no question of freedom.
It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Now, this boy is very tender age. He has renounced this material life. He has got young wife, but still, he has given up with mutual consent. The wife also has agreed that "You take sannyāsa for the service of Kṛṣṇa." So this is actually renouncement. Young boy, young man, everyone wants young wife, enjoy this material life. But he has renounced everything. This is great sacrifice. Instead, in spite of presence of young wife and facilities for material enjoyment, one who renounces for the sake of serving Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. He is called sannyāsa. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). For better service he ceases to act materially. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. That is sannyāsī. He is therefore called gosvāmī. His name is, from this day, Sudāmā das Gosvāmī. Because go means the senses, and svāmī means the master. At the present moment, in the materialistic concept of life, everyone is servant of the senses. Everyone acts by the dictation of the senses; therefore they can be called, in other words, as godāsa, servant of the senses. Instead of becoming servant of the senses, one has to become the master of the senses.
The first engagement should be that mind should be always absorbed in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa. Always engaged. These boys, they are always engaged. Just like in offering arcana to the Deities from early morning up to ten o'clock at night, and then they go to rest. Again rise early in the morning. So somebody is engaged n cleansing the temple, somebody is engaged in dressing the Deity, somebody is engaged in cooking for the Deity, somebody is engaged going in Tokyo city for distributing literature, somebody is performing kīrtana here, somebody is reading our various books. In this way we have got twenty-five hours engagement instead of twenty-four hours. So mind cannot go outside Kṛṣṇa. That is called Kṛṣṇa conscious. We don't allow the mind go out of Kṛṣṇa's service. And this is sannyāsa. Practically anyone who is engaged in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, he is a sannyāsī. Never mind what is his dress. He may be in a dress of a family man, householder, or he may be in the dress of a sannyāsī—everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Therefore in the essential sense, everyone is sannyāsī. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). The Lord Himself is giving the definition of sannyāsī. What is that? Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. Karma means action. Whatever you do, there must be some reaction.
So his particular life is: since the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is my faithful disciple, and from 1965 or '6, he is with me. And he is very innocent boy, and I got him married. His wife is also great devotee, you know, Yamunā. So now Yamunā has taken a very nice path. She has also become sannyāsīnī. Although there is no sannyāsīnī for women, but she has voluntarily taken. She is doing very nice; therefore I advised her husband that "You also take sannyāsa." Because wife's affection is very, very tight knot. It is stated, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ (SB 5.5.8). Naturally there is tendency—a man wants woman; a woman wants man. This is the material world, puṁsaṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam, sex impetus. That is natural. But when they are united, that impact becomes very, very tight. It is very difficult. It is very difficult to give it up. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that his wife has voluntarily has become like sannyāsīnī. So it is very good fortune. Therefore I advised him that instead of accepting another wife, you also become sannyāsī. So he is my faithful disciple. He has accepted. And all of you Vaiṣṇavas, give your good wishes that he can keep the sannyāsa order very nicely and preach Kṛṣṇa through the rest of the life. His life will become successful.
Those who are completely dedicated to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa in service are actually sannyāsīs. As a matter of formality, the devotee accepts the sannyāsa dress as previous ācāryas did. He also accepts the three daṇḍas. Later, Viṣṇu Svāmī considered that accepting the dress of a tridaṇḍa was parātma-niṣṭhā. Therefore sincere devotees add another daṇḍa, the jīva daṇḍa, to the three existing daṇḍas. The Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī is known as tridaṇḍī-sannyāsī. The Māyāvādī sannyāsī accepts only one daṇḍa, not understanding the purpose of tridaṇḍa. Later, many persons in the community of Śiva Swami gave up the ātma-niṣṭhā, devotional service of the Lord, and followed the paths of Śaṅkarācārya. Instead of accepting 108 names, those in the Śiva Swami sampradāya follow the path of Śaṅkarācārya and accept the ten names of sannyāsa. Although Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted the then existing order of sannyāsa, namely ekadaṇḍa, He still recited from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa accepted by the brāhmaṇa of Avantīpura. Indirectly He declared that within the ekadaṇḍa, one daṇḍa, four daṇḍas existed as one. Accepting ekadaṇḍa sannyāsa without parātma-niṣṭhā, devotional service to Lord Kṛṣṇa, is not acceptable to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In addition, according to the exact regulative principles, one should add the jīva-daṇḍa to the tridaṇḍa.
General Lectures
It is commonsense affair. How this body...? I am taking this body so important, the body of such and such professor, such and such scientist, such and such philosopher. But as soon as I, the soul, go away, where is the importance? If the body is important, why it becomes nonsense immediately after the departure of the soul? Therefore the soul is important. One who does not know the soul, his all activities are defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jato yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Anyone who has not inquired about the soul, because he is born ignorant, born in darkness, he does not know what is soul, what is this body, what is this world. Therefore born in darkness. So if in that darkness and ignorance he is acting so many things, what is the profit? It is simply defeat. So a person who does not inquire into the existence of soul, his real identity, all his so-called improvement is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply laboring, that's all. The whole world is doing that, beating the bush, laboring for nothing. He does not know that how long he will remain. Suppose you are in America. You are now Mr. Ford. You have constructed a very skyscraper building. But how long you shall remain in this skyscraper building? How long you shall remain American or Mr. Ford? Next life, as soon as your body is changed, then you are Mr. Dog or Mr. Cat or Mr. this or Mr. Chinaman, Mr. Indian. That means if, in my next life, I become Mr. such and such instead of Mr. Ford, then all the activities that I have done as Mr. Ford is simply waste of time. That he does not know. This is ignorance. And one who has conquered this ignorance, he is Arjuna. Is it clear?
As soon as our original consciousness becomes polluted with the consciousness of material enjoyment, that "I want to lord it over the resources of matter..." As soon as we turn our consciousness in this way, then our troubles begin. Immediately māyā. This very consciousness, that "I can enjoy this material world to my best capacity..." Everyone is trying to do that. Every one of us, beginning from the ant up to the highest living creature, Brahmā, everyone is trying to become one of the lords. Just like recently in your country there were so many canvassing for becoming the president. Why? The same idea. Everyone is after becoming some kind of lord. This is māyā. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is completely opposite. We are just trying to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Just opposite. Instead of becoming the lord, we want to be the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80).
In this way the life is going on. The living entity is traveling in many species of life, in many planets. But this human form of life is an opportunity to understand how I am transmigrating from one place to another, one life to another, and simply wasting my time without understanding what is my constitutional position, why I am so much in distress, miseries. These things are to be understood in this human form of life. But instead of understanding my real position, the process of life, we reject everything. Simply I am engaged with the gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ, home, society, money, position, everything is all right provided you can utilize it for elevating yourself from these material clutches. Otherwise, if you are simply engaged and captivated by these things, then I am spoiling my life.
So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, representing ourself, he is lamenting, "My dear Lord, I have spoiled my life. I have simply spoiled my life." Why? This life, this human form of life, manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā. This human form of life was meant for understanding what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa or Lord, His energy, whatever you call. Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma, the same thing, the Lord and His energy. So, "Instead of making contact with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, I am simply spoiling my life in sense gratification."
So this instruction should be taken by all of us. The purificatory process is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as our heart is purified, we completely become convinced that "The Lord is Supreme. I am His eternal servant. I have forgotten this. Servant, my servitorship is there, but instead of serving the Lord, I am serving my senses. That's all. I have never become the master. I am not master of my sense; I am the servant of my senses. That is my position." So why not becoming the servant of the Supreme instead of serving on the servant of the senses? You cannot become master. Actually, you become master of the senses when you are actually servant of Kṛṣṇa; otherwise it is not possible. There are two words, gosvāmī and go-dāsa. Persons who are servant of their senses, they are called materialistic go-dāsa, and persons who are master of the senses, they are called gosvāmī. Gosvāmī. They control the senses. The tongue wants to eat something which is not... "Oh," he controls. "Oh, tongue, you cannot taste these things. It is not Kṛṣṇa prasāda." Therefore he becomes gosvāmī, master.
This means that we are blind, we do not know what is the goal of our life. (child making noise) (aside:) Stop. We do not know what is the goal of our life, and the leaders, they also do not know what is the goal of our life. Our Back to Godhead editorial, they have written very nicely that with the change of some politician we are thinking that something new will be done and we shall be happy. Just like there is advertisement, "America Needs Nixon Now." (laughter) People are thinking, "Now, instead of Johnson, when Mr. Nixon will be President, we shall be happy." But they do not know from which stock either this Mr. Johnson or Nixon is coming. The source of supply is the same. If the source of supply is the same, then what is there, replacing Mr. Johnson by Nixon or Nixon by Johnson? The leader(s) themselves, they are blind. They do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. Therefore our position is that we are blind and our leaders are blind, so what will be the result? If a blind man leads other hundred men to cross over the street, certainly there will be some accident because all of them are blind men. If one man is with eyes, open eyes, he can lead hundreds and thousands of men behind him. But if the leader and the led, both of them are blind, then the result will be that all of them will fall into the ditch.
So the example is set by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that human civilization will advance only on the basis of brahminical culture and cow protection. As soon as there is falldown from brahminical culture, and as soon as there is discrepancy in the protection of cows, there will be no more peace in the world. Therefore He specifically said, go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for the protection of brahminical culture and cows. Then automatically the peace of the world will come, if two things are done. This is Vedic literature. They pick up the essence of the things, and all other things follows. Just like meditation. Meditation means... Not meditation, the yoga system. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Yoga system means to control the senses. This is the primary factor of practicing yoga. Now the senses, we have got five senses acquiring knowledge and five working senses. So of all the senses, the tongue is considered to be the most powerful sense. The Vaiṣṇava, they therefore try to control the tongue. They do not allow the tongue to eat everything and anything. No. Svāmī or gosvāmī means who has control over the senses. Generally, people, they are servant of the senses. When people, when a man becomes, instead of becoming servant of the senses, when he becomes master of the senses, then he is called svāmī. Svāmī is not this dress. This dress is superfluous, just to... As in everywhere there is some uniform dress to understand that "He is, he..." Actually, svāmī means who has control over the senses. And that is brahminical culture.
That is materialistic way of life, indriyāṇi, senses. So the everyone... A boy is hankering after a girl, a girl in hankering after a boy, or a man is hankering after woman, woman is hankering... This is going on. This is not unnatural. This is the natural life. And tayor mitho, the hankering is there. But as soon as they meet or unite, it becomes a hard knot, tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ (SB 5.5.8), a hard knot in the heart, that "I am matter. I am this matter. This world belongs to me. This country belongs to me. This body belongs to me." That means hard knot. Instead of transcending from the concept of body life, it becomes still more hard knot. It is very difficult. Therefore those who are practicing yoga, or trying to be on the transcendental platform, the restriction is that one must cease sex life, if you at all interested. But that is not possible. Therefore our, this method, we don't say "Stop sex life," but we say "Don't have illicit sex life." Illicit sex life, of course, even there is no question of transcendent life, that is a question of civilized life. Civilized life. In every civilized society—it may be Hindu society or Muslim society or Christian society—any civilized human society, there is the system of marriage. And beyond marriage, if there is sex life, that is called illicit sex life. That is never indulged in any society. So what to speak of transcendental life? Transcendental life must be purified from mental concoction or bodily concept of life. It is the transcendental platform. Tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ.
Then the next stage is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you can see everything, or every living entity, on the equal status. People are trying to come to that platform of oneness, but that is only possible when you come to the spiritual platform, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the material platform it is not possible. Practically we see the United Nations, they are trying to come to oneness of all nations, but they failed. Simply the flags are increasing. Instead of being united, we are increasing our flags. So if you want actually oneness, then you have (to) come to that platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—prasannātmā, joyfulness. Everyone is hankering after joyfulness. How that joyfulness can be attained? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says,
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
Ātmā means soul, your self. We are, every one of us, hankering after that peace and tranquillity. How it is possible? Bhāgavata says, yayātmā suprasīdati. Suprasīdati means completely becomes satisfied. How it is possible? Now, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ: "That is the first-class occupational duty by which you develop your love of God." That is first class. The test of religion... Every religion has got some conception of God. That's all right. But if by following the principles of that religion, if you see that you are developing your love for God, then that is first class. Otherwise, Bhāgavata says, it is simply wasting time laboring.
Guest (1): So the particle of man of the Supreme Being is all-love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You want to love somebody, and Kṛṣṇa wants to love you. This is loving exchange. But instead of loving Kṛṣṇa, you are trying to love something else. That is your trouble. The love is there in you and Kṛṣṇa, and when the love will be exchanged between you and Kṛṣṇa, that will be your perfection of life.
Guest (1): Thank you.
Guest (2) (Indian woman): Would it matter if I worship any other? Would it matter whether I worship Kṛṣṇa or Śiva or Christ or Buddha? Would it matter? As long as... (break)
Prabhupāda: If you worship Śiva, you'll get Śiva. If you worship Kṛṣṇa, you'll get Kṛṣṇa. Why do you expect Kṛṣṇa by worshiping Śiva? What is your idea?
Guest (2): My idea is, would it matter, I mean, if instead of...
Prabhupāda: If you… Suppose if you purchase ticket for India, you'll go to India. How you can go to hell?
Guest (2): This is not the point.
So if you identify yourself with this body, then there is no need of meditation because body, you are actually seeing—this is body. No meditation means that you have to transcend the bodily platform, the mental platform, the intellectual platform. Then you find out what is the "I." That is meditation. But fortunately we get information directly. Instead of searching out what you are, what is your position, what is this "I," you get direct information from Kṛṣṇa. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So as part and parcel, you may claim as God. How is that? Just like this whole body. Now, the finger, which is the part and parcel of this body, can be said also "body." But the finger is not the whole body. A finger, if it claims that "I am the whole body," then it is wrong conception. But if the finger claims that "I am body," there is no wrong. Finger is... Because it is part and parcel of bo..., this body, whole body, therefore it is also body. Just like part and parcel of gold is also gold—it is not different from gold—similarly, I, individual I, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme "I," Kṛṣṇa. That is the real philosophy. And as soon as you understand that you are part and parcel of the Supreme, then your function is also immediately fixed up. What is that? Now, this part and parcel of this body is the finger, or anything you take. What is the duty of this finger? The duty of the finger is to serve the whole body. That's all.
That is the perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yam... Dhyānāvasthita, by meditation, one can see. So this perfectional stage can be achieved when you are in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, Brahman realization stage. So Lord Caitanya said that if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, the first installment of your gain will be that your heart, which is contaminated now with so many materialistic dust, it will be cleansed. And next stage will be bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. That means you'll realize yourself that "I am not this matter, I am soul. And my relationship with God is this. God is like this." And gradually, you will develop your love for God. You have got that love. Dormant love is there, but because we do not know what is God, because we do not see the beauty of God, because we do not know the mercy of God, therefore our love has been forced or placed in the dog. Instead of God, we have placed our love on dog. So we have to simply change. Our love is distributed in the matter in so many ways. That will not make me happy because I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. I have to transfer my love towards the Supreme Spirit, God, then I'll be happy.
Does he follow this devotional service blindly? No. Jñātvā. Jñātvā means "knowing perfectly that I am the source of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the source of everything." So these things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is not possible to explain all the verses. But our request is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to spread the knowledge depicted in the Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any nonsensical commentation. Then the human society will profit by it. They are actually not in sound condition of living atmosphere, but if they understand Bhagavad-gītā and if they actually expand their broader outlook, then these questions of social, national, international, all will be automatically solved. There will be no difficulty. And without finding out the center, if we manufacture our own ways... Not to speak of any individual persons, the different nations of the whole world, they are trying to be united. And in your country there is United Nations organization. Unfortunately, instead of becoming one, the flags are increasing. Daily you pass, you'll see another flag is there. Just like in our India, there was one Hindustan. Now (chuckling) there has become another, Pakistan. And sometimes there will be Sikhistan and there will be some-stan. So instead of becoming united, we are being disunited because we are missing the center.
So it is natural. If we keep ourself in natural life, it is natural. But because we are developed consciousness, we do not keep in natural life. We accept so many unnatural things. Therefore our knowledge becomes covered by unnatural material nature. So that has to be cleared by superior instruction. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Therefore we have to take; voluntarily we have to accept. Just like a man who lives naturally, he never gets disease. But one who lives... Just like you don't find any disease amongst the animals. But amongst the human beings, oh, there are so many medical science, so many things. Why? They live unnaturally. So if you live naturally there is natural evolution, but if you block the natural course, then how you can do it? If you lit fire and let it go, it will grow. But if you pour water in it, how it will grow? So in the human form of life we do not go according to natural intuition. Just like amongst the animals, amongst the birds you'll see. Take the pigeons. You give them some peas—they will eat. But if you give them some particles of meat, they'll not eat because they are living natural life. A tiger, he will not accept. You give him nice foodstuff, prepare your vegetables, he'll not accept. So natural life evolves up to the animal life. But when you come to the human form of life you have got developed consciousness, and instead of using your intelligence and consciousness for further develop naturally, you put unnatural impediments; therefore you are covered. That is called yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati, tadātmānam (BG 4.7). Therefore you require instruction of Kṛṣṇa.
Just like we are traveling all over the world—not only once, but twice, thrice in a year. Because there is facility for traveling the airways, so it has become very easy to go from country to country. And practically, while I am in India, all my disciples are coming here from different parts of the world, every morning. There are facilities now. Therefore the world is now not limited by geographical condition. Anyone can go anywhere very swiftly. You can go to London from Bombay within nine hours. So the world is not bounded anymore by "geographical limits to the particular countries or communities. Human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state of human society." There is already the United Nations. In New York, they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations. But actually, when we pass through that road—I think it is First Avenue—instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India, our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhijī for uniting all the different section of the people, but actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact, it is not being united; they are becoming disunited more and more—not only the Hindus and Muslims. Now in India, there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually, we are not being united. We are being separated. So the ideals of human society "is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state or one human society. The ideals of spiritual communism, according to Śrīmad-Bhāvagatam, are based more or less on the oneness of the entire human society, nay, on the entire energy of living beings."
The Kṛṣṇa is to be understood. Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedic culture... All the Vedas, they're meaning how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva... Vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means the end. There is... Everything has got the ultimate, the supreme summum bonum. The summum bonum of Vedic knowledge, or Vedānta, is Kṛṣṇa. So that Vedānta knowledge, Kṛṣṇa personified, He is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone is searching after God: "Where is God?" "What is God?" "What is the meaning of God?" "What God does?" "What is the power of God?" So many things. So everything He explains in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is God. Sarvasya... In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said... "What is God?" That is the first question of Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human life especially meant for inquiring about God. Unfortunately, people, instead of inquiring God, they're very much eager now to inquire about dog. This is the position. There are big, big dog shows in India at the present moment. We have seen many places.
Here also, explicitly mentioned, harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa's activities are all wonderful. As you read from the Kṛṣṇa book, He is fighting with many demons, and His activities are wonderful. Just like Kāliya-damana. A boy of five years old or six years old jumping in the Yamunā, and the great snake immediately coils Him, as if it will devour Kṛṣṇa. And from the shore, all the members of Vṛndāvana, they become fainted: "Now Kṛṣṇa is gone." But He was fighting with him and kicking on the head, and blood was oozing out from the mouth of the serpent. So these things are wonderful things—Bakāsura, Aghāsura, Śiśupāla, Kaṁsa. Kṛṣṇa was boy of sixteen years old when He was combating a very powerful wrestler, Cāṇūra. Everything... Everyone present, they thought it unlawful that "Kṛṣṇa is so young, and such a big stalwart and strong wrestler is engaged with Him for wrestling. This is not good. This is not good." In protest, so many people left the arena. And Nanda Mahārāja began to think, "I should have locked up Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana instead of allowing Him to come here. Oh, so much injustice."
In India, one who has taken birth as a human being, it is his duty to make his life perfect. Because there are so many, I mean to say, authentic literatures. So if we don't take advantage of these literatures, then we cannot make our life perfect. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu advises that you make your life perfect and distribute this Vedic knowledge to the whole of the world. Paropakāra. Paropakāra. You are meant for paropakāra, not for exploiting. That is the duty of the Indians. Unfortunately, neither we are inclined to make our life perfect by understanding the Vedic literatures... Therefore we are begging. Instead of doing paropakāra, we are begging. This should be stopped. And the essence of all Vedic literature is Bhagavad-gītā. So if we study Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect, undoubtedly. But unfortunately, we also misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā according to our own whims, and therefore we are misguiding. We cannot take the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, and therefore our, this human form of life is also lost, and we cannot do any welfare activities in the world.
That technique is love of Godhead. If you learn, it doesn't matter what religion you profess. It is no concern. We do not say that "You become Hindu," "You become Muslim," or "Christian." No. We say that "You become lover of God." You learn how to love God. Your loving propensity is there, but it is being misplaced. It is placed on dog instead of God; therefore you are unhappy. When your loving propensity will be placed in the proper place, you will be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, love of Godhead.
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā samprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
If you want happiness, then you must learn how to love God. You are trying to love somebody, but you are being frustrated, foiled. Because except God, nobody is loving object. And if you love God, then naturally you love everything because God is everything. The example is that if you pour water on the root of the tree, it goes everywhere—to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers, everywhere. But if you pour water on the leaf, it is localized. It does not spread.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that according to the body, your happiness and distress or enjoyment. We do not know what is our happiness. According to body, I think this is the standard of happiness. Somebody thinks that "By eating such-and-such thing, I will be happy," just like the hog. And somebody thinks "No, this is not." One man's food, another man's poison. So everything is food and everything is poison according to the body. One thing is poison for me, but the same poison is food for others. That is for enjoyment. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says that don't bother about that thing to satisfy your senses; that is already fixed up according to your body. Instead of wasting your energy in that way for so-called happiness, you just try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what is Bhāgavata-dharma. Just engage your energy. It is very nice instruction. People are busy all over the world for having a certain type of sense gratification. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Don't bother yourself for that. It is already there; you will get it."
Kṛṣṇa is teaching how you can develop your attachment for Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. We have to take it. We have to understand it. So as soon as we develop this attachment, teṣāṁ satata-yuk... Attachment means just like you have got a lover or something lovable object; you cannot live without it. You are always searching, "Where is my lovable object? Where is my..." That is called attachment. That attachment as taught by Lord Caitanya, He says, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. This is the final stage of attachment. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching us that "I am feeling everything vacant." Why? "Being separated from Govinda." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. This is the highest stage of attachment. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people how to become attached to Kṛṣṇa instead of māyā. We are attached to māyā. We have created so many things just arrangement for forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Anything we make here for sense enjoyment... (end)
Why I want to become the lord of all I survey? Because I want to gratify my senses to the greatest extent. This is going on. But actually our position is not to lord it over. Our position is to be lorded by the Lord. That is our position, actually. If you don't agree to be predominated by the Supreme Lord, then you shall be predominated by other agent, other energy, the material energy. I met one great professor in Moscow. The subject matter was freedom, Communism. So my last question was that "You people, Communists, you have surrendered to Lenin, and we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference? You have selected a personality like Lenin or Stalin or Marx. We have selected a personality, Kṛṣṇa. Now, so far the principle of surrender is concerned, it is there in Communism and our Vaiṣṇavism. Now it has to be seen whether Kṛṣṇa is good or Lenin or good. That is a different question." So actually we are trying to be free, but we surrender to some rascal, that's all. Instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa we prefer to surrender to some rascal or fool. That is māyā. We have to surrender. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Our real identification is eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is our real identification.
Unless you come to the platform of brahma bhūta (SB 4.30.20) consciousness, you cannot treat everyone on the same level. It is not possible. The so-called universal brotherhood is not possible on this material condition of life. Therefore you can see that materially there are so many attempts to find out a platform of universal brotherhood. But there is no universal brotherhood. There is simply platform of enemy. The United Nation is trying to come to the platform of universal brotherhood. When I go to New York, I see the great institution. There are hundreds and thousands of flags. Instead of being united, the flags are increasing, because this universal brotherhood, this equality, fraternity, cannot be established on this material platform. It is not possible. You have to come to the point, to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or brahma bhūta stage, then it is possible.
Guru means spiritual master. And who is spiritual master? Who abides by the disciplic succession. He does not change. He does not interpret. He presents things as they are. Just like we are doing. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says that... For spiritual realization, He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Kṛṣṇa says that "Always think of Me." Man-manā. Man-manā means "about Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "You just become My devotee." So we are teaching our students in that way, how to think of Kṛṣṇa always. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. (break) ...walk on the street, and if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you remember Kṛṣṇa. There is no tax for it. There is no loss for it. Suppose if you are free, traveling on the bus or on the train, you have got time. So instead of reading so many news from the newspaper, if you utilize... The newspaper means the repeated things. Every morning you see something: "Somebody has stolen, somebody was killed, some political leaders have bluffed you," and so many things, the same thing, repetition of the same thing. This is also repetition, Hare Kṛṣṇa, but by this repetition, you enlighten your spiritual life.
So actually, in this material existence we are forgetting our real constitutional position, that we are all eternal servant of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). But some way or other, we have come to this material world for enjoying, for lord it over the material nature. And that is not possible. You cannot lord it over. The Lord is Kṛṣṇa, but we are trying to be lord. And the endeavor, the labor which we are giving incessantly, that we are thinking happiness. The nature, the material nature, is putting stumbling block every time. That, to overcome the impediments offered by the material nature and our trial for overcoming that stumbling block, that is our endeavor. And we are thinking this is happiness. Just like you are making one high road and there is, material nature is offering a big hill, a big mountain before you. Now you have to make tunnel. You have to call for dynamite and try to penetrate through the hill. That struggle is known as advancement of material condition. That you cannot. In America and other materialistic countries we see—here also, in Japan—they are laying down one kind of road for plying their motorcars. After some years it becomes a problem—another flyway, another flyway. So this is going on. This is called struggle for existence. We are trying to conquer over the stringent laws of material nature, and that labor, that useless spoiling our life, we are thinking that we are..., this is happiness. This is called māyā. We are actually giving service to the māyā instead of giving service to Kṛṣṇa. This is illusion.
So here there is difference between the name and the substance. But in the absolute world there is no such difference. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa the person and Kṛṣṇa's name the same thing. Therefore if you chant "Kṛṣṇa," then you are in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa. So that will help you for your spiritual advancement. Just like if you are in touch with fire you will get yourself warmer and warmer and warmer, and at last you'll get red fire. Similarly, if we are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then we advance spiritually, and then we become completely spiritualized, our original Brahman. This is the process. Simple process. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll gradually develop your spiritual consciousness. That is actually happening. It is not story. You can see practically how they are spiritually advancing. So why not experiment yourself? What is the loss? If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is there any loss? Tell me, is there any loss? But why don't you do it? Why not make a try? Instead of arguing, you see practically what is happening. They are of different civilization, different culture. How they are developing their Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How it is possible? Simply by chanting. This is practical. Throughout the whole world—in Africa, in America, in Canada, everywhere. So this is very simple process. But people will waste their time by arguing. Why not make an experiment and see what is the result? That is our propaganda. (end)
So we are trying simply to taste the same water in different pots, sometimes in the pot of the body of a dog, sometimes in the pots of the body of a hog and sometimes in the pot, in the body of a human being. So this taste is common for everyone. The human developed consciousness is meant for something else, not for tasting these things—eating, sleeping, sex life and defending. That developed consciousness is meant for understanding what is God. But in the modern civilization that higher developed consciousness is being utilized for changing the pot. Suppose I have come here in Laguna Beach by nice..., on a nice motorcar. So it is a pot only, that's all. I could come here walking or in another vehicle. So there was no difference. It would have taken little more time. But we are thinking, because we have got this motorcar instead of a bullock cart, we are advanced in civilization. That is the mistake. Because either you travel on a bullock cart or in a motorcar, your business is to transport from one place to another, that's all. It may save some time. You may feel some extra pleasure. No pleasure actually. Rather, bullock cart is comfortable because this motorcar, you are always thinking, "There may not be any accident." Yes. Always they are afraid. And there is happening accident. Recently one of our devotee has died. So many people are dying. So this material advancement of life means you create little convenience, and side by side, you create so many inconvenience. That you must. You have created motorcar. That's all right. But side by side, you have created death by motor accident, so many. What is the statistics in your country? How many people are dying?
Anyone can go anywhere very swiftly. You can go to London from Bombay within nine hours. So the world is not bounded any more by geographical limits to the particular countries or communities. "Human society is broader than in the Middle Age, and the world tendency is towards one state of human society." There is already the United Nations. In New York they have constructed a big organization, establishment, United Nations, but actually, when we pass through that road—I think it is First Avenue—instead of being united, the flags of the nations are increasing. They are becoming disunited. Just like in India our independence movement was started by Mahatma Gandhiji for uniting all the different section of the people. But actually, the result was that instead of being united, India was partitioned. And the partition has become so poisonous that formerly there was only sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots in some place; now there is organized fighting between Pakistan and Hindustan. So although the tendency is to unite, but in fact it is not being united. They are becoming disunited more and more. Not only the Hindus and Muslim. Now in India there are many provincial questions. Just like in Andhra the fight is going on for separation. Punjab is already separated. So actually we are not being united. We are being separated.
Kṛṣṇa is to be understood. Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedic culture... All the Vedas, they are meaning how to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva. Vedānta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge and anta means the end. There is... Everything has got the ultimate, the supreme summum bonum. That summum bonum of Vedic knowledge or Vedānta is Kṛṣṇa. So that Vedānta knowledge, Kṛṣṇa personified, He is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone is searching after God: "Where is God. What is God? What is the meaning of God? What God does? What is the power of God?" so many things. So everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is God. Sarvasya. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said what is God. That is the first question of the Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human life (is) especially meant for inquiring about God. Unfortunately, people, instead of inquiring God, they are very much eager now to inquire about dog. This is the position. There are big, big dog shows in India. At the present moment we have seen many places.
Prabhupāda: So you have no right to do so.
Guest (1): Say instead of Hare Rāma Hare Rāma, we say Visva ramane rahim, or something like that, will you have no objection to that?
Prabhupāda: No objection.
Guest (1): And will you say...
Prabhupāda: But that is no objection.
Guest (1): ...that efficacy will be the same?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If Bismillah means Hare Kṛṣṇa... It is a question of language. So if meaning the same thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hare Kṛṣṇa means we are addressing the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hara means the energy of the Supreme Lord, and Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Lord. So we are addressing, "My dear Lord, my dear the energy of Lord..." Because Lord and His energy, they are, they are always existing. Just like sun and the sunshine, they're always existing. Sunshine is the energy, but sun is the energetic. Similarly, the Lord is there and His energy's also there. So we are praying both to the energy and to the Lord: "Please engage me in Your service. I am serving māyā. I am not happy. Therefore, please engage me in Your..." My, my constitutional position is to serve. Just like you're all sitting here. Every one of you are servant. If you consider that you are master, that is a mistake. That is māyā. Every one of you are servant. So "I am serving, but now I am serving māyā. I'm not happy. Let me serve You."
Now for lack of knowledge, the United Nations, they're also, the Eastern and Western people have gone to make a solution of the world problems. But they're unable. My next headquarter is New York. I go on the First Avenue. Most occasionally I see there is the United Nations Building. But instead of diminishing the flag, they're increasing. They're increasing. I do not know what is the meaning of this United Nations. Why? Big, big brain, big, big politicians, big, big learned scholars, and they are speaking. But why the nations are not united? It is is, it is simply a show only. Because lack of knowledge. It is due to lack of knowledge. What is that lack of knowledge? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Everyone is thinking: "I am this body." They have gone to unite together. But their basic principle of knowledge is the same, that "I am this body." American, he's thinking: "I am this body. American." Russian, he's thinking: "I am this body, Russian." And they are fighting. Why the fighting? Due to this body. But if we understand this very simple thing, that I am not this body, everything is united. So the lack of knowledge is there. How we'll be united, culturally or this way? It is not possible. The first lack of knowledge must be eradicated, that why you, why we are missing the point? This is the point.
Our only business is to serve God. We are serving, any one of us. That means if you do not serve God, then you have to serve māyā. You cannot be without service. Māyā is another agent of God. Just like if you do not obey the laws of the state as a free man, then you will be pushed into the prison house as a criminal, and you have to abide by the orders. You cannot say, "No, I'll not obey the orders of the state." That is not possible. If you voluntarily do not abide by the orders of the state, then you will be forced to abide by the state in the prison house. Similarly, those who have declared independence, so-called independence—nobody can be independent—that "I do not believe in God, I do not want any type of religion or serving God," such persons will be under the guidance or under the influence or power of the material nature, māyā. Māyā-mohita. Tribhir guṇa-māyāir bhāvair. We are now illusioned by the influence of māyā, material energy, in three ways: by goodness, by passion, and by ignorance. But instead of serving God, we are now serving māyā. And so long we shall be going on serving māyā, or serving in the prison house, we cannot be happy.
That is described in the Upaniṣad. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇaḥ. We'll have to die like cats and dogs, but we have got the chance to understand what is the value of life. The cats and dogs have no chance. So simply if we waste our time like cats and dogs and do not know what is the aim of life—sa kṛpaṇa. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti, aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa kṛpaṇaḥ. There are two things: brāhmaṇa and kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa means miser. A person who got this valuable body... Just like if you get millions of dollars, if you do not utilize it, if you simply see in the treasury that you have got so much money, then you are kṛpaṇa. It is practical. But if you utilize that money and instead of one crore you make ten crores, then you are called intelligent. Similarly, if we think that "I have got this human form of life, better standard of eating, sleeping and mating," then you remain kṛpaṇa. You could not utilize it. But if you know in this life, which is possible, "What is the value of this life? What is Brahman? What I am? What is my connection with Brahman? Why I have come here? Where I shall go again? Why I am put into the miserable condition of life? I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me?" this is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry, "Why?" Therefore there is a Kena Upaniṣad, "Why?" Unless this "why" inquiry comes in the human body, then he is failure. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Whatever we are doing, we are being defeated, because we are doing everything in ignorance. "I am this body." "This is my country." "This is my kinsmen." And in this way I die like cats and dogs.
He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. These foodstuffs we can prepare nicely in so many ways, and Kṛṣṇa says, "If somebody offers Me with faith and love, I eat it." Now, the question is, you see that "Whatever I offer, these things are there. How Kṛṣṇa has eaten?" Therefore His eating process is different. But He has eaten. That you have to learn from the śāstra, that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). He is not hungry; still, He can eat the whole world. But still, the world remains as it is. That will require some brain to understand. (laughter) Kṛṣṇa eats. Kṛṣṇa eats and again keeps the whole thing as it is for your eating. So you are not loser. If you offer to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will eat and He will again get you the foodstuff for eating. That is His fullness. That is His fullness. So therefore you prepare very, very nice foodstuff and offer to Kṛṣṇa and take it. Then your desire for eating nice foodstuff will be automatically fulfilled. And at the same time become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you do this? Anyone can do, either in this temple or at home. But they will not worship Kṛṣṇa. They will worship a dog. Instead of God, keeping dog and taking all care. This is the mentality. Then next life he becomes a dog. Because he has got good faith and love for dog, therefore he becomes dog. And if you have got good faith and love for Kṛṣṇa, you become a body like Kṛṣṇa. Unless you have got the same type of body, how you can play with Kṛṣṇa, dance with Kṛṣṇa? Therefore when Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... (BG 4.9). If you become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body, you get a body like Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That should be the aim of life. All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
To renounce this world is not very big thing because the world also, created by God. So instead of renouncing, if we utilize this God-created material world for God's service, then it is spiritual. Because originally it belongs to God. Originally it is spiritual. Therefore in the higher sense there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual because everything is coming, emanating from the Supreme Spirit. So we have to learn the art how to utilize everything for God. Just like we are. We are also living in the house. Without a house, where can you live? We are also human being. We cannot lie down on the street. We have got some house, some protection. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, and we are also mating, and we are also defending. But it is in a different way. These boys and girls, some of them are married, so they are also begetting children, and that means mating. But you see in our temple, even small child, he is offering obeisances, he is offering a flower, he is also chanting, he is also dancing. So to make sex for begetting such children, it is also God. But if we beget children like cats and dogs, then it is material. Because there is no God consciousness. So everything can be turned. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ: without any attachment. Just like these boys, they are collecting money, but not a single farthing they are spending for themselves, not a single farthing. Everything collected is being utilized for God's book publication, for propaganda, for distribution. They are not earning less. We collect some day one thousand dollars, and we are collecting all over the world about thirty thousand dollars. Yes.
Madhudviṣa: I think part of the question was this. One other man who comes from the East, Krishnamurti, he stresses that when you are speaking in the Western world, you should speak and present yourself as a Westerner, not as an Indian or not as you would speak in India. Instead of sitting on the raised dais, Vyāsāsana, and dressing in robes of a monk, Krishnamurti would say, "Dress in Western clothes and sit on a chair." The question was, "What is our opinion of this?"
Prabhupāda: Actually a God conscious person is neither Westerner nor Easterner. So anywhere he goes, the devotees, as they receive him, they accept. These devotees, they have arranged the raised seat, so we have accepted this raised seat. If they wanted to sit down on the floor, I would have gladly accepted. I have no objection, this or that. But as the devotees receive and they give honor, that is good for them, because actually we should honor the Supreme Lord, God, and His representative. Nowadays it is different. Students and people are learning not to honor. But that is not actually the system. According to Vedic system, the representative of God must be honored as God. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Just like in India we had British rule. The governor general, he was viceroy. So he was given honor, as much honor we used to give to the king. So that is the etiquette. That is the system. It is not that the honor given to the viceroy exactly like to the king, he becomes a king. No. He is servant of God. But it is the duty of the citizen to honor the representative of the king as king. That is etiquette. That is our Vedic system.
Prabhupāda: ...go to moon, what benefit you derive? You will die also. So anywhere you go within this material world, birth, death, old age and disease will follow. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
- ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān
- punar āvartinaḥ arjuna
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramam
Instead of going to moon planet, why not engage your energy for going to back to home, back to Godhead, wherefrom you will not come back again? Yes?
Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Sikh-dharma they say to chant the holy names of God, and so far I haven't encountered the name "Kṛṣṇa" in the scriptures. I have encountered "Govinda," "Mukunda," "Rāma" and..., but the main name that is chanted is Viduḥ. And I was wondering if you could comment on..., on the Sikh-dharma.
Prabhupāda: It is very good. It is very good. Guru Nanak, he chanted the name, holy name of Rāma, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda. So if we follow Guru Nanak, we are fortunate. Anyone who presents a science of God, it doesn't matter whether he is this man or that man; he is our guru.
So intelligent person, instead of waiting many, many births to understand Kṛṣṇa, may take it immediately what Kṛṣṇa says, as it is. Then his life is successful. So that is possible to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is saying. But because on account of our sinful activities, we cannot understand. Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities, very intelligent person, but engaged in sinful activities. Nowadays... All the people are nowadays educated, but all of them, mostly, ninety-nine percent, they're engaged in sinful activities—illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. These are sinful activities and, in spite of advancement of education all over the world, these things are going on. Therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is understood by a person who is no more engaged in sinful activities.
Pāpa. Yes. Pāpa. I understand. Pāpa... First of all, we have to know what is pāpa. Just like in ordinary way, in ignorance we commit something unlawful. Just like in this country it is said, "Keep to the left," and some other country it is said that "Keep to the right." Say, Americans, they "Keep to the right." Now, in this country, if instead of keeping to the left, if he keeps to the right, then he becomes punishable. So this is due to ignorance. So pāpa means in ignorance. So if you become in knowledge, there is no more pāpa. So if you understand what is God, what you are, what is your relationship with God, and if you act accordingly, there is no pāpa. This is pāpa-nirvāṇa, no more pāpa. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
- śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ
- hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi
- vidhunoti suhṛt satām
- (SB 1.2.17)
If you simply hear Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, then gradually you become free from all sinful reaction of life. That is pāpa-nirvāṇa. This is very simple thing. That's all.
So this jīva-bhūta, living entities, we are living entities, we also belong to the spiritual prakṛti, we are expansion of spiritual prakṛti. Just like Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is always engaged in the service of the Lord, anārādhyate. Ārādhyate, it is Rādhārāṇī. The Rādhārāṇī, the name has come from the word ārādhyate. Ārādhana, ārādhana means worshiping. So everyone is meant, beginning from Rādhārāṇī, and her expansion, Lakṣmī, in Vaikuṇṭha, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.29). Here we worship mother Lakṣmīji, goddess of fortune, to receive some favor. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there are many hundred thousands of Lakṣmī, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata, and they are sambhrama-sevyamānam: with great respect, they are engaged in serving the Supreme Lord. So, we being expansion of the spiritual Lakṣmī, or Rādhārāṇī, our duty is to serve Rādhārāṇī, and through Rādhārāṇī to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are missing this point, that instead of learning from Rādhārāṇī how to serve Kṛṣṇa, we are being controlled by the another prakṛti, material energy, Durgā, with weapons in her ten hands. This is our position.
So we are..., our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for this purpose, that simply we are trying to educate people how to give up the control of the material energy, and under the control... Not to control the material energy; that we cannot do, that is not possible. But not to become under the control. That is very simple method: mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Just like if you become honest, if you are not criminal, then there is no police control-police may be there. But as soon as you become criminal, you come under the control of police. Similarly our business is, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained, and everywhere in the śāstra, and actually we are so, we are eternal servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa. This is our real position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). But our disease is instead of becoming dāsa, we are trying to become the master of the prakṛti. This is called materialistic way of life. So that will not make us happy at any stage of our life. This is very dangerous. We are missing the point.
This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. It is not the business of the Indian people to exploit others. The mission is they must be very, very merciful to all outsiders, born in, out of India. That is India's mission. Because they are in darkness, they do not know. So instead of enlightenment, giving them jyotir gamaḥ-tamasi mā: "Don't remain in darkness"—so we are imitating them. This is not India's good fortune. We should not imitate. That is not very good civilization. That is, this has been described as asuric civilization in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu: they do not know. Anyway, although they do not know, they are accepting now. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so potential that they are accepting, that is upakāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted this, para upakāra. They are in darkness, tamasi. Bring them in the light: tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ.
The human society has manufactured in Hindu society, Muslim society or Christian society, and there are so many... Buddha society... So, but Bhagavad-gītā says that "You can give up sarva-dharmān, all sorts of religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." This is the position. Kṛṣṇa said in the beginning that "I come here to reestablish the religious principle." And what is that religious principle? To surrender unto Him. To surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. This is real religious principle. And in the Naimiṣāraṇya, when this Sūta Gosvāmī was asked what is the best religious principle, so, he replied, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "It doesn't matter what is that religion. Any religion is first-class religion provided it gives you opportunity to develop your dormant love of God. That's all." You follow any religion; it doesn't matter. Either you become a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or so many other religions there are, but the test is that whether your religious principle is first class or third class or second class, the test will be whether you have developed your dormant love of God. That's all. If you are lacking in that, that you have not..., instead of developing your dormant love of God, you are developing your love for so many other things...
Departure Talks
Prabhupāda: Oh. Then three...
Rāmeśvara: Seventeen volumes just of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And then about five volumes of Fifth Canto.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-two volumes. So instead of seventeen, you have to print twenty-two.
Rāmeśvara: Four are printed.
Devotee: Four are already printed.
Rāmeśvara: So that leaves eighteen. But we will have it all out to the printers by Janmāṣṭamī.
Prabhupāda: Janmāṣṭamī?
Rāmeśvara: End of August.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: He has no idea other than the fact that...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, if he believes in God, a fact, then instead of so-called perception, why not understand from God what He is?
Hayagrīva: Well, he, um...
Prabhupāda: Our senses are imperfect. We, we admit that there is God. Now, if our senses are imperfect, how we can imagine "God is like this," "God is like that"? That actually if God explains Himself, why should we not accept that?
Hayagrīva: In his, uh... Hume appears opposed to the search for God in the ideal world. He writes, "Why not stop at the material world? How can we satisfy ourselves without going on ad infinitum, forever. If the material world rests upon a similar ideal world, this ideal world must rest upon some other and so on, without end. It were better, therefore, never to look beyond the present material world.
Prabhupāda: Material world means full of miseries. Therefore those who are advanced, they are searching after another world where there is no misery. This is the idea. And this searching after happy world, that is permanent. Everyone is searching after that. That is not unnatural. But actually there is such world, and if there is, why should you not hanker after that world?
Prabhupāda: So he is also skeptic. So why people should be induced to believe him and hear him? He is immediately rejected.
Hayagrīva: He felt that instead of basing belief in God...
Prabhupāda: No, he should not think, because nobody will take his instruction. He does not believe others, does not take others' statement—why his statement should be accepted?
Hayagrīva: Well, well he believes at least in the material senses.
Prabhupāda: Everyone believes that. Materially everyone believes. But if he says none of them are correct, so why he is so..., pose himself as correct? He is rejected immediately.
Hayagrīva: He says, "All the new discoveries in astronomy which prove the immense grandeur and magnificence of the works of nature are so many additional arguments for a Deity according to the true system of theism," that is his natural, what he calls natural religion. In this way Hume rejects the necessity or desirability of miracles as well as the conception of a God transcendental to his creation. He says it's not the being of God that is in question but God's nature. This nature cannot be ascertained through study of the universe itself. However, if the universe can only be studied by imperfect senses, what is the value of our conclusion? How can we ever come to know the nature of God?
Prabhupāda: Nature of God, it can be explained by God Himself. That is our Vedic process. We know who is God, and He explains, "My nature is this." Just like He says, "I am the greatest principle," mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no more higher principle than Me." This is fact. If something is greater than God, then how one can become God? That is not possible. So greatest means He is great in everything. He is great in richness, He is great in reputation, He is great in influence, He is great in bodily power, He is great in beauty and He is great in renunciation. If we can find out somebody that He tallies with this greatness, then He is God. So that we find in Kṛṣṇa; therefore Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and what He says in the Bhagavad-gītā we accept as fact. And if we analyze His statements intelligently, pruriently, then we will find that what Kṛṣṇa says, that is fact.
Hayagrīva: As far as we can ascertain, Hume personally had no religion, no faith in the Christian or any other God. He also rejected that argument or reason could justify a faith. Thus Hume is a complete skeptic who denies the possibility of ascertaining certainty outside of a mere sequence of perceptions or ideas.
Prabhupāda: This, then the argument comes. If he does not believe in anyone's statement, why he is thinking his statement will be accepted? Then he is foolish. He is a child. Instead of becoming a philosopher, he is a child, talking all nonsense.
Hayagrīva: He maintains that man cannot know ultimate reality or possess knowledge of anything beyond a mere awareness of phenomenal sensory images.
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. But if man cannot have any knowledge, so who is going to take your knowledge? Better you stop, don't talk. Is it not?
Hayagrīva: So much for Hume. (laughs) That's the end of Hume.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean is not that the conclusion? If he is skeptic, he does not take other's statement why he expects that his statement will be taken? Why does he propose any statement? Does he think that he is the greatest of all? Then everyone can think like that. That skeptic has no ground. He cannot say. If he is skeptic he should stop, he should not stand.
Śyāmasundara: There is a cause.
Prabhupāda: There is a cause. Now, you may not find out the cause, just like here is a diseased man, and there is some cause. So instead of finding out the cause, you go on treating the disease. Get it cured. But cause must be there. Otherwise he is infected, why others are not infected? The cause must be there.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that the laws of physics are not inherent in nature, but they are modes of thought.
Prabhupāda: No. This is also nonsense. There is a law. All physical things which are going on, there is a law. Just like while the temperature is below zero, the water becomes solid. That is a physical law.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That happens when it is below zero, but our understanding of that phenomenon, that law of physics, is only because of our thought process. Our thought process analyzes it.
Prabhupāda: Analysis is also thought process, but you cannot think that when the water becomes solid, at a certain temperature, you cannot think that it is liquid. This is factual. (indistinct) Here is a medical man; there is disease. We may not find out, but he knows it must have been caused.
Prabhupāda: This is to be understood, that however expert logician you may be, this is not possible, by your reasons, by your knowledge, to approach the Supreme Absolute. That is not possible. This process that when God descends Himself and He speaks about Himself, He demonstrates about His pastimes, then it is possible. So the Bhāgavata is the record of God's descents. The whole Bhāgavata is philosophy about God, theology about God, and practical demonstration of God. Therefore anyone who takes to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the process of understanding God through Bhagavad-gītā, therefore it is called Bhāgavata, and it is simply about God. Bhagavad-gītā, God speaks Himself about His activities, and Bhāgavata is the record of God's activities, pastimes, and when He appeared on this earth, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Ninth Canto. Nine cantos are devoted for understanding the transcendental nature of God, and the Tenth Canto is practical demonstration of God's activities before the eyes of the people of the world. But those who are miscreants, they think that Kṛṣṇa, or God, He is like an ordinary man but a superhuman being. That's all. But that is actually the position of God. By His causeless mercy He demonstrates Himself to be convincing. So instead of philosophizing, the people take to these two books, Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and if he practices the process, then he will understand God.
Prabhupāda: If words are to be accepted as true, why not accept the words of Kṛṣṇa? Who can be greater authority than Kṛṣṇa? If your word does not require any evidence, you are a renowned scientist, your words are sufficient, then greater scientist, greater personality is Kṛṣṇa. Then why should we not accept His words? We do not know what it is, but you are presenting there in bombastic words and we have to accept your word. Is it not? So I will say that instead of accepting your words, why not accept Kṛṣṇa's word? He's greater personality.
Karandhara: Someone will come along in a year or a few years and refute everything that this scientist says.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That we say.
Prabhupāda: What does he mean by survive? What is the meaning of his dictionary, "survive"? Nobody survives.
Hayagrīva: Well, by that he means that the strong pass on their hereditary characteristics to their offspring, and that the race..., no individual survives, but that the race improves. But isn't this contradicted by the Vedas? In the present Kali... For instance, Arjuna's physical powers, prowess, was much greater, and that was, what, five thousand years ago. So isn't, instead of improving, instead of the race improving in strength and other qualities, isn't it actually...
Prabhupāda: They are degrading.
Hayagrīva: ...degenerating. What is the cause of man's physical, mental and spiritual deterioration in the succeeding yugas?
Prabhupāda: That is education. Every individual person, he is a soul, and he has got a particular type of body. Especially in the human body he requires education. What is this animal and what is higher than human race, these are Vedic description. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and the body is being evolved. The body is machine, and the individual soul desires and he gets a suitable body made by material nature under the order of God. This is Vedic idea, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is existing within the core of everyone's heart, and the individual soul is desiring something, and upon the order God he is given a machine made by material nature. So this is evolution, and even a man, although he is human form of body, he can again degenerate to animal form of body according to his desire. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He has to change the body, and the body is changed according to his work and desire. In the animal kingdom they have also desires, but they are under the laws of nature changing body, and one is given the chance to become a human being, and then he may desire, and according to his desires he gets the next body. If he likes, he can go higher forms of life, and if he degenerates he goes lower form of life.
Hayagrīva: The prosecutor...
Prabhupāda: What will be the answer? If you want to worship God, you must worship according to the dictation of God. If you have no such dictation, if you have no idea of God, then how you can worship God? You can worship a ghost, according unto you. If freedom is given to your conception, then you can worship a dog instead of God, because you do not know what is God and what God wants you to do. So without the conception of God, real, how one can worship God by whimsical ideas?
Hayagrīva: This has always been a very touchy subject in the schools.
Prabhupāda: This is the real subject.
Hayagrīva: In the schools, now in the United States, the schools are not even allowed to mention God, not even allowed to mention God.
Prabhupāda: That means that is frustration. They could not get the idea of God. This is frustration. This kind of conclusion means they try to understand God, but there was no proper understanding of God, so they have given up the idea of understanding God. So frustration, rejection by frustration is not success. The best thing is they should learn about God from God and do accordingly. That is success. So we are preaching the message of God, and people should take to it to understand God and worship Him. That is success.
Hayagrīva: He saw, he saw change as maturation. He says, "We are seeking only the precise meaning that our consciousness gives to this word 'exist,' and we find that, for a conscious being, to exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly."
Prabhupāda: So, you want..., you are struggling, creating for the highest position, but Kṛṣṇa is giving you the idea. This is the highest position, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that "You give up your so-called positions, you simply surrender unto Him..., Me, and I shall give you all protection." This is the idea. But he denies, and that because he thinks Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being, "Oh, how He can give me the topmost position?" So he goes on, he..., with his plan-making, so that... But this plan-making, if he is actually advancing, then after many, many births he will come to that conclusion that everything is Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). But this happens after he is struggling for many, many births. So best thing is that instead of waiting many, many births, if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction immediately, we become perfect. Why you should continue in ignorance, unsettled, and making plan? That is another foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Delirium, yes. He is talking all nonsense, this diseased condition. So he has to cured from the diseased condition, then he will understand, "Oh, this is my position," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), he becomes immediately joyful, "Oh, I am talking in delirium, nonsense." This is...
Hayagrīva: So instead of a machine for the making of gods, it's more like a hospital for the curing of souls.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is hospital. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means curing the disease. That is described in Nārada-bhakti-sūtra, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), nirmalam. Nirmalam means purified. So when he becomes free from all this designation... The designation begins with this body, and the body accidentally born in Europe, he thinks, "I am a European." Born in America, "I am an American." Born in a Christian family, "I am Christian." He is born in Hindu family, "I am that." That is all misconception. His real position is that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, eternal servant." Then he is free from all. That is, that is beginning of..., that is brahma-bhūtaḥ, beginning of spiritual life. So nothing, not that a man can be made to God. He is not God; he is part and parcel of God. He has to simply understand his position. That is mukti. He is working under different impression, that "I am this body." Just like the other day with, concerning the philosopher Huxley. He is a philosopher but he is proud of becoming Englishman. Did you not say?
Prabhupāda: So this depends upon one's education. If one is educated, in one way he may become tender, and another man, if he is educated in a different way, he may be hard. But our proposition is that originally the soul is good. This tenderness and hardness, they are developed later on. But they are not standard. When you come to the platform of soul, there everything is good. In that platform, either tenderness or hardness, both of them are in the absolute. So our philosophy is that, as we understand from Bhagavad-gītā, that every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is good, pavitra. Just like Arjuna accepts, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Pavitra means pure. But because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we are pure. The impurities are acquired by our contamination with this material world. So either you become tender or hard—that is impurity of this material world. So we don't give any credit to any person, either he is tender or hard. These are all material qualifications. When he is spiritually placed, then we give him, that he is now liberated, either from tenderness or from hardness. These are all material qualifications. One is hard, one is tender. So that is our material quality. Just like a disease. One is suffering from headache, one is suffering from indigestion, or one is suffering from fever. So one who is suffering from headache, he is thinking, "Instead of having a headache, if I would have suffered from indigestion it was better." You see? And the man who is suffering from indigestion, passing stool every three minutes, he is thinking that "If I would have suffered from headache instead of this nasty disease, I would have been all right."
Śyāmasundara: He puts forward five steps for solving problems. (aside conversation-indistinct) The first step is, he says, to observe a problem and think of its nature. The second step is intellectualize the problem further: to analyze the total of difficulties. Three, you make hypothesis which constitutes possible solutions. Four, you analyze these hypotheses in the light of past experience. And five, you put these possible solutions into practice experimentally, and to ascertain the results in actual experience. So his method is that... So the idea is that problems are only solved when the possible solutions are put into practice and we experiment and get a result. Then we find solutions to problems. But not simply by theorizing, but by practice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our process of solving problems is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So we take Kṛṣṇa's shelter and our problems are solved. As it is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, He is the reservoir of all mystic power, yogeśvara. So Bhakta's business is instead of endeavoring to become a yogi, he takes shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is yogeśvara, the master of all mystic power. We take it that this is the solution of our problems. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te, instead of... I was reciting the verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, bālasya neha saranay vicinvam (?). So there are different kinds of methods of solving the problems. The best method is to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa, and all problems are solved.
Śyāmasundara: There must be certain conditions met before...
Prabhupāda: But how he is speaking is also fact, that he is speaking under certain conditions. Everything in this material world, that is on condition. So his philosophizing is also under condition. So everything is conditioned. Why does he not understand first of all himself, instead of trying to understand what is gold? Everything is conditioned.
Śyāmasundara: If we listed for some conditions that it must weigh a certain amount, it must have a certain color, it must have a certain texture, like that...
Prabhupāda: That is already there. Those who are chemists, they know what is the characteristics of gold. That is already there, recorded. So what does he want?
Śyāmasundara: This is part of his system for analyzing what is true or untrue.
Prabhupāda: That analysis is there. It may not be with me, it may not be with you, but it is already there. But what he will do with that analysis? What is his aim?
Prabhupāda: Then (indistinct) because that is imperfect.
Devotee: His first doctrine was that we should indulge the senses, that this would help, but later he reformed that idea, that instead of indulging the gross senses we should sublimate our natural instincts to some higher cause. So his idea was that instead of actually indulging in gross sex life, we should channel this sexual impulse to some higher cause, such as for developing the culture.
Prabhupāda: That we have explained by quoting Śrī Yamunācārya's verse, that "Since I have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whenever I think of sexual intercourse, my mouth becomes deformed and I want to spit."
Devotee: Freud would say that whatever talents you have, use them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But Freud says if somebody has the impulse to kill, he should become a surgeon. If somebody has the impulse to stab someone, then he should be directed to become a doctor and a surgeon, and then by that same cutting...
Devotee (2): This is still a limited conception of what...
Prabhupāda: Then all murderers should be sent to medical college to become surgeons instead of condemning them. Why not?
Śyāmasundara: Aren't these desires given outlet in other ways? Do we channel the desires to some other field? Instead of seeing a beautiful woman, we see the beautiful form of Kṛṣṇa, like that?
Prabhupāda: That is our process. From this (indistinct) if you have got better engagement, you give up inferior engagement. When you are captivated by seeing the beautiful form of Kṛṣṇa, naturally you have no more desire to see the beautiful form of a young woman.
Śyāmasundara: The Buddhists also say repress desires, but they mean total repression.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't say that. We just say that sometimes there is strong desire, we have to repress it. Just like my Guru Mahārāja used to say that while you get up from bed, you beat your mind a hundred times with your shoe, and when you go to bed, you beat your mind a hundred times with a broomstick. Then you will be able to control your mind. Sometimes, just like wild tiger, they have got him to control by repression. The circus players, they do that. Because it is wild tiger, repression is required. But when it is under control, there is no question of repression. You can play with the tiger; he becomes your friend. So repression is not always bad.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that this desire to accuse someone else of being the same is sometimes repressed and replaced by the opposite expression. In other words, someone may dislike someone, but they will inhibit that dislike and show overt symptoms of friendliness, where in fact there is no friendliness there but it is only a mock friendliness. This is one of the psychological attitudes he was studying. Sometimes someone who may have dislike for someone, instead of expressing dislike, may express just the opposite, extreme fondness, where in fact he dislikes the person.
Prabhupāda: That is called (indistinct), silliness. What is the meaning of silly?
Śyāmasundara: Silly means frivolous or superficial.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) If the other party is silly, then you also become silly. That is human nature.
Devotee: Freud would give an example like this: The child three or four years old, and then a younger child is born in the family. The four-year-old child sees the younger child as a source of competition for affection, and he doesn't like the younger child, but then if he expresses dislike for the child he will be chastised by the parents, so he makes as if he likes the child very much in order to get approbation, but factually he dislikes the child. That is another mechanism that...
Prabhupāda: I don't think the older child dislikes the younger child. Sometimes.
Hayagrīva: Sublimation is, well let me read, "The excessive excitations from individual sexual sources are discharged and utilized in other spheres, so that no small enhancement of mental capacity results from a predisposition which is dangerous as such." In other words, he didn't believe that..., in total sexual freedom as it's conceived today, but that a man would be better, instead of trying to totally deny the sex drive, to try to redirect it, oh, perhaps in artistic activity or in, in study, or in some other activity. Not to deny it.
Prabhupāda: That means, in one word, to divert his attention.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is brahmacārī. That is recommended in the Vedic culture, that from the very beginning of his life, divert his attention for spiritual activities, he, he will forget about sex life. That is the experience. Not only a trained-up child, even a grown-up person, if he takes Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, he also forgets sex life. So that is possible by training, one can forget sex life. That, that is experience of Yamunacārya. He expressing, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. He says that "Since my, my mind and attention has been diverted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities, as soon as I thing of sex life, I spite on it." That is possible. It is simply question of training. And if one indulges in sex life without any restriction, the physical problem is there. He will be impotent. He will not be able to, even though he has got sex organs, he will not be able to use it. That is nature's way of punishing. There are so many impotent person. So it is a question of training. So the Vedic training is to train the small child, from the very beginning of his life, how to avoid sex life. That cannot be artificially done, but there is a process of training. By accepting that training one can remain without sex life throughout the whole life. That is possible.
Śyāmasundara: So if they are loving God, automatically either unconscious or conscious states are all balanced, brought together.
Prabhupāda: The loving propensity is already there, (indistinct) loving God. So somebody is loving, it's a fact. So loving propensity is there, but the loving propensity is misled; therefore he becomes (indistinct). Instead of loving (indistinct), if you love Kṛṣṇa then our loving propensity becomes perfect.
Śyāmasundara: This Jung, Carl Jung, I studied with his disciples in Zurich for six months one winter, and he came..., toward the end of his life he became very religious. At the beginning he was an atheist, but after this study he began to understand that the perfect end of psychology is to integrate and become balanced as a personality. And the best way, the only way, the time-tested way, is to be a religious person.
Prabhupāda: Means to become a religious person means to become a lover of God. Did he love God or something else?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He became very much religious, and all his disciples are very religious, but in sort of a mystic way, not, not so much an organized religion. A little bit of hodge-podge.
Prabhupāda: That is no (indistinct). Without clear conception of God, must be hodge-podge.
Śyāmasundara: One of Jung's favorite techniques for improving a person's personality is to force that person to bring up the demonic force in himself and treat it as another person. If the demon within me is not really me, it's another personality which causes...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: But this demon that haunts me, that is another personality besides my real personality.
Prabhupāda: That is not a... Personality, I am. Just like delirium, the same personality, but he's talking nonsense in delirium. If you remove the delirium condition, then he becomes again the original person. Delirium is not person.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: When we say that a person is ghostly haunted, does that mean there is another personality which is inhabiting his...
Prabhupāda: Influencing.
Hayagrīva: He said that Freud's absorption with sexuality expressed a flight from himself, a fleeing from himself, from the side of himself which might be called mystical. As long as he refused to acknowledge that side, that is the mystical side, he could never be reconciled with himself, could never be at one with himself. So...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was under the leadership of sexuality. That's a fact. Everyone is under the leadership. Just like sometimes we say, "The material scientists say like this, they say like this." He accepts the leadership. So we have to accept the leadership, but if we accept the leadership of Kṛṣṇa, then our life is perfect. Other leadership is māyā, māyā's leadership. But we have to accept leadership. There is no doubt of it. So he accepted the leadership of sex, but he did not admit it, but going on speaking on sex. And those who have taken the leadership of God, they will speak only of God, nothing else. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109), that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, that we are eternal servant of God. So as soon as we give up the service of Lord, then we have to accept the service of māyā. So all these different atheists, scientists, they are all servants of māyā instead of becoming servant of God. He is servant, but he is servant of māyā. That is the difference between devotee and the materialistic person.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. But because we are free we become susceptible to being dull.
Prabhupāda: Just like a dog. A dog is free. He can go to the right or the wrong side, and nobody cares for it. That is for the dog. But if a human being, if he decides instead of going to the right, to the left, then he is criminal, because he has got responsibility. So either you take dog's philosophy or man's philosophy. Dog's philosophy, he has no decision. He is an animal. He can go this side or that side. But we cannot do that. So whether he is man or dog. If he is a man, he must decide right and wrong. He is responsible. That is a man.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this condition of bad faith must be replaced by solid choosing and faith in our choosing. For instance, if one chooses a certain path of action, that he must have faith that by carrying out this action valiantly, heroically, that he will be doing the right thing.
Prabhupāda: But if his decision is wrong, then what is the use of such heroism?
Śyāmasundara: He says there's no such scale of right and wrong. There is no absolute right and wrong, that everything depends upon how...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of responsibility if there is no right and wrong?
Śyāmasundara: Whatever I do, I must do it...
Prabhupāda: Whimsically. Whimsically. Whatever you do, you do it whimsically. Does he mean to say like that?
Śyāmasundara: No. Whatever you do, you do courageously.
Prabhupāda: Courageously... Just like the example I gave, the insect goes very courageously into the fire. Is that a very nice decision, to go forward courageously into the fire? He'll go courageously.
Śyāmasundara: He has another definition of this bad faith, that bad faith means treating oneself as an object instead of a person; that I feel myself like a thing, or an object, instead of a person. This a bad faith.
Prabhupāda: Bad faith means?
Śyāmasundara: Treating myself as an object instead of a person.
Prabhupāda: But you are a person. How can you become an object?
Śyāmasundara: Because we are susceptible to bad faith, that this condition exists in the world, people are treating each other as objects—"He is black," "He is white," "He is old," "He is rich"—objects instead of persons. This called bad faith, and he wants to rectify that condition.
Prabhupāda: Then what is good faith? That is also object?
Śyāmasundara: Good faith is dealing with someone else genuinely as a person, despite whatever that person is doing. That doesn't matter so much, what he is doing, but how he is doing it.
Prabhupāda: You have not been clear. What is it?
Śyāmasundara: A person is doing something, it doesn't matter so much what he is doing but how he is doing it, that he is doing it genuinely, with full integrity.
Prabhupāda: Then if a man is stealing, and he is doing it very scientifically, is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."
Śyāmasundara: So he says that we can remedy the whole situation of bad faith and being an unsavory character and treating myself as an object instead of a person by choosing for myself the person I ought to become.
Prabhupāda: Ideal person.
Śyāmasundara: An ideal person. And become that ideal person.
Prabhupāda: So what is the definition of that ideal person?
Śyāmasundara: Well, in some of his books it would be the very heroic type person who sees things as they are.
Prabhupāda: A big robber is also heroic.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Many of his heroes are robbers and...
Prabhupāda: So these robbers are ideal persons? Big, big thieves.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why do you fight with the tiger? Why you are afraid of tiger?
Śyāmasundara: His idea of a hero would be someone who meets the tiger face-to-face and courageously deals with him instead of running away. Whenever the challenge in life is there, the hero is the one who takes it up.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. It may be hero or not hero, it doesn't matter. If somebody comes to attack me, I try to fight with him, trying to save me. So I may not be successful, but that is my natural instinct. So everyone is hero.
Śyāmasundara: No. If a person is free of this bad faith, this...
Prabhupāda: What is bad faith and what is good faith, according to him?
Śyāmasundara: Bad faith is that I avoid decision making. I am avoiding decisions. Avoiding making decisions is bad faith.
Prabhupāda: Avoiding making decisions?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. And treating other people as objects. Good faith is to make decisions courageously and follow them out, whatever those decisions are.
Śyāmasundara: So by observing someone's individual propensity, then I can see him as a person?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: I see. Instead of just seeing black, white, this or that, I look for individual propensities, so I appreciate those individual propensities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Appreciate or not appreciate, it is there.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the fundamental project of man is his desire to be.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he is eternal. Because he is eternal, he has got that desire to be. Unfortunately, he is put under certain conditions that he cannot keep himself eternal. That is his problem. That problem we have solved—how to remain or to keep myself eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. (laughter) He does not know what is facts.
Devotee: He just before said that it is facts what we see from our senses, so again he's negating his own philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: But he's using... He wants to use another word for facts. Instead of facts he...
Prabhupāda: What is the fact?
Śyāmasundara: ...he calls it propositions, or symbol, such as "Snow is white." Instead of calling it a fact, he would say, "It is proposition." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is the fact? He must say "This is fact."
Indian man: This is the same question in London. One of the (indistinct), that how can... (break) (end)
Śyāmasundara: Fifty.
Prabhupāda: Fifty. So within fifty years his philosophy is (indistinct). And in India, we do not know when religion began. You say Brahmā. So Brahmā's twelve hours... Twelve hours (indistinct) cannot calculate. So religion, our this Vedic religion is there since so many long years and instead of being devastated by the foreigner for the last two thousand years, still the religion, the system of religion, is running. It is not illusion, at least for India.
Śyāmasundara: I'll read his famous statement about religion. He says, "Religion is the (indistinct) of the oppressed (indistinct), the heart of the heartless world, just as it is the spirit of the spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."
Prabhupāda: That's right, but the he does not know what is religion. His definition (indistinct) why he accepts the Vedic way; nobody knows what is religion. Our Vedic version is religion is the code given by God. So if God is fact then His law is also fact, it is not illusion. Just like Kṛṣṇa giving religion. There is (indistinct), sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), to surrender unto God. This is religion.
Prabhupāda: Useful, useful... So far you are seeing the sun, you know the sunshine is useful, the sun heat is useful. That does not mean that you have understood sun as reality. The superficial benefit you are getting. That does not mean that you know reality. Do you know? You are getting sunshine; you are utilizing it. Sun's heat, you are utilizing. Does it mean that you know really what is sun?
Śyāmasundara: He would say that the only reality instead of the sun is that the crops would grow, feed everyone.
Prabhupāda: That's all... They are simply by-products, simply by-products. But you do not know the reality. If you speak of reality, if you are satisfied only the by-product of the reality, then that is a different thing. But when you speak of reality it does not mean, because it appeals to your senses, therefore it is reality, because your senses are imperfect. You cannot realize anything perfectly with these defective senses.
Śyāmasundara: He says that if there is anything beyond the appearances, physical world, it is also physical, that everything is physical, everything is material.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Physical... Even physical, you do not know. Even this physical manifestation of this universe, what do you know about this? You do not know. There are so many planets. You cannot go even in the moon planet.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like he considers Kant's idea, "the things in themselves," to be "the things for us,"...
Prabhupāda: (aside) You can change that.
Śyāmasundara: ...instead of something existing in itself, that "everything exists for us and everything exists for my use."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animal also thinks that "This is reality." "I have got one goat," a tiger thinks, "to eat. Oh, this is reality."
Śyāmasundara: This is just for me.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... These things are discussed in Upaniṣads. The students asks, "What is reality?" He says that "Think over." Now came, that "Eatables are reality," because he's a small child. So he says, "No, this is not reality. You think over." In this way, this way, one after, one after another, one after another, he finally came to Brahman. So this reality differs according to knowledge. Kṛṣṇa can... The same example: a child. Two things: one lugdoo and one one-thousand-dollar note—which one he will take? He will take this lugdoo. For him this is reality. He does not know the value of this paper. But for his father, which one of them, he can immediately... So reality means according to your knowledge. So these are poor class of men; therefore they are always talking of economic production and this and that, the immediate... That's all.
Hayagrīva: He felt that the state should eventually assume the role of Christ. He said, "As Christ is the mediator on whom man unburdens all his own divinity and his whole religious burden, so also the state is the mediator on which man places all his unholiness and his whole human burden." So, in other words, that Christ, of course, relieves man of all his burdens and his sins through his message of salvation, and instead of Christ it would be the state that would assume this role.
Prabhupāda: So Christ gives the knowledge how one can be relieved of the material burden. That is the business of all religious preacher. The religious preacher should give information to the people in general the exact position of God or idea of God, and when people will learn scientifically about God's existence and his relationship with God, then everything will be adjusted. That is wanted. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give people exact idea of God, exact definition of God, and exact instruction of God. If we take that, take to that, then our religious life will be perfect.
Śyāmasundara: No, I'm saying that...
Prabhupāda: That is our—Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can order anything He likes, but you have to carry out Kṛṣṇa's order. If Kṛṣṇa says you to kill, then you can kill. You cannot say that "Kṛṣṇa has said to Arjuna to kill, therefore I shall kill."
Śyāmasundara: So what I mean is instead of saying that this is good and that is bad, all you can say really is what is good is what Kṛṣṇa says.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Śyāmasundara: Kṛṣṇa's order is what is good.
Prabhupāda: That is actually doing. Actually in our experience also, just like a soldier, he kills by the order, superior order of the state. He is given gold medal. And if the same man, when he comes home, if he kills, he is hanged. Why? Because you can kill under superior order, not whimsically. Generally the order is not to kill, but if he says now kill, you can... that is order, that you have to take. And if you say at that time, "Sir, you told me not to kill," that is (indistinct). General order and specific order. So Kṛṣṇa says, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). He is giving the process of knowledge, amānitvam adambhitvam, not to be proud, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. These are there, eighteen qualities for understanding spiritual values. So it is general. Now for particular purposes if Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, you must kill," you must abide by that order. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Hayagrīva: Concerning education, he says, "We must conclude that education is not what it is said to be by some who profess to put knowledge into a soul which does not possess it, as if they can put sight into blind eyes. On the contrary, our own account signifies that the soul of every man does possess the power of learning the truth and the organ to see it with, and that just as one might have to turn the whole body around in order that the eye should see light instead of darkness, so the entire soul must be turned away from this changing world until its eye can bear to contemplate reality and that supreme splendor which we have called good. Hence there may well be an art whose aim would be to effect this very thing, the conversion of the soul, in the readiest way, not to put the power of sight into the soul's eye, which already has it, but to insure that instead of looking in the wrong direction, it is turned the way it ought to be.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Hayagrīva: That.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Yes. It's that art, he says.
Prabhupāda: It is an art, that our aim of life by these sensually affected senses... At the present moment we are sensually affected. I want to eat something which is very palatable, I eat it. I do not care whether this palatable eating will mislead me or lead me to the proper way. Therefore we are making this propaganda. So your eating process is not stopped. You eat, but don't eat meat, you eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. So if we agree to this process, then gradually we become purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our aim, objective, is attained. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't stop eating. No sensual activities are stopped. The eyes, in the material way, the eyes want to see very beautiful objective. We say, "Yes, you see the beautiful Kṛṣṇa. You taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam." Everything is there; simply we purify. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If this process is accepted, then when he sees real beauty, real food, real, then he becomes satisfied. That is wanted.
Hayagrīva: ...for when it deteriorates, it degenerates into mob rule.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that's a fact, very good. But the best thing is monarchy, because if the monarch is rājarṣi, he is not only king... That is necessary. Kṛṣṇa wants that, that the government should be ruled; therefore we praise, offer so much respect to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit and Lord Rāmacandra, how to become an ideal king. He is Personality of Godhead. He showed how to become Rāma-rājya. So this is very good because it is not expensive. One man is maintained by the state very nicely, and nowadays these democracies' mob rule means instead of one king there are 300,000 kings in a state, and they are looting the hard-earned money by income tax, and everything is so polluted. So the condemnation of democracy is supported by us. It is mob rule. It has no value.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: So his, his...
Prabhupāda: It may be that you know something about God. Then you have to admit that you do not know everything about God. So their knowledge is imperfect. Our point is that we know everything of God from God. So that knowledge is perfect. As Kṛṣṇa said in the Seventh Chapter, that mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. "If you concentrate your mind on your attachment to Me, and if you execute yoga meditation, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you understand Me fully and without any doubt." So instead of speculating in God, if we simply think of God, that will help us. To escape from darkness, if you speculate about the sun by some suggestion, by some concoction, this is one kind of knowledge. But if you actually come out of the darkness and see the sun, then it is complete (indistinct).
Hayagrīva: So he concludes we must obey God rather than men, in terms of laws.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We can obey such man who obeys the laws of God. Otherwise they..., it is useless to obey an imperfect person. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). To obey the imperfect person means just like a blind man following other blind man. So what benefit he will get? If one blind man is begging help from others, "Please help me in crossing the road," if another blind man comes and he says, "Yes, come on with me," so what will be the result? Both will be crushed by accident. So any, any person who does not follow the instruction of the Supreme Controller, he is a blind person. He cannot lead. As we are concerned, we therefore don't accept the so-called scientist's or philosopher's belief. They say, "We believe," "Perhaps it may be like this." These are all doubtful declaration. There is no truth in it. If there is any truth, that is also doubtful. Why should we risk our life by following such blind man who is thinking, who is believing, but he has no clear knowledge? Therefore we have decided to take lesson from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, who knows everything perfectly well. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows past, present and future, and what is our benefit, welfare, everything. So we should follow Kṛṣṇa instead of so-called blind philosophers.
Hayagrīva: He says, "Some men have pretended for their disobedience to their sovereign a new covenant or a new agreement with God, made not with men but with God. This also is unjust, for there is no covenant or agreement with God but by mediation of somebody that represents God's person, which none does but God's lieutenant, who has this sovereignty under God." Could a monarch use this argument, which is the argument of divine right, in order to discourage his subjects' rebelling under the pretense that they are communing directly with God? What guidelines are there to assure against this? There was... Wasn't there one king, King Vena, King...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vena. So everything depends on the king's accepting the absolute instruction of God. So king, in Vedic civilization, the king was absolutely following the regulation given by God, and it was confirmed by saintly persons, sages. Then it was executed; not whimsically. There was advisory board of the monarchy always. They were not politician, diplomat, but they were all saintly person, knew very well the Vedas, and they used to guide the monarch. Therefore the monarch is absolute governing body. The ministers were helping, but the king was educated by God's direct instruction, as Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. Vivasvān, the sun-god, there are tradition two kṣatriya family—one from the sun-god and one from the moon-god. Sūrya-vaṁśa and candra-vaṁśa. The kṣatriyas in India, they claim. And that is a fact, because we see that Sūrya, sun-god, is the original kṣatriya. From him came Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. This is the age of Vaivasvata Manu, and from him came his son, Ikṣvāku. So by the paramparā system, if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction... Kṛṣṇa's instruction is already there. If the governments all over the world take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then every government will be perfect and there will be no disturbance of peace and happiness. That will be perfect world. Kṛṣṇa has given instruction in all fields of activities. Simply we have to take it practically. But the people are so foolish that instead of taking the standard way of living, they are manufacturing on account of their demonic tendency. They, the head of the state, they are degraded, either individually or collectively, so how there can be good government? If they become perfect according to the instruction of God, then everything will be perfect.
Hayagrīva: Well, he says no one can hate God, but what about Kaṁsa and others?
Prabhupāda: That is demonic. Naturally one is in love with God. He should love God. But when he is in māyā he thinks himself as separate from God. Instead of loving Him, he thinks himself as separate from God. Instead of loving Him, he thinks that God is hindrance, my competitor of sense gratification, therefore avoid God, kill God, I become absolute sense gratifier. Anyone who hates God means he is a demon.
Hayagrīva: Spinoza writes, "The more we understand individual objects, the more we understand God." Is this the proper process? Wouldn't you say that the more we understand God the more we understand individual objects? Which is uh...
Prabhupāda: Anything you take, that is perfection of knowledge in God. Which thing is not related with God? Everything is related with God. In the material world anything you will take it is made of the five elements, but these five elements, they are expansion of God's energy. So intelligent person sees in everything with reference to God's expansion of energy. That is the position of devotee. He does not think anything separate from God. And as he is lover of God, devotee of God, he wants to engage everything, because if everything is God's property, that should be used for God's benefit. This is devotee's conception. The asuras, they have no conception of God. Neither they are obedient to God, neither lover of God. He thinks the material world is for his enjoyment.
Hayagrīva: He thinks... He says in many Oriental states this assignment... He says, Hegel, in tle Platonic state, in Plato's Republic, the government assigns each individual his occupation. In Oriental states, in..., for instance in India, he says this assignment results from birth. The subjective choice, which ought to be respected, requires free choice by individuals, and he considers this the basic right.
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is just like Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). This is going on all over the world. The occupation is that just like engineering occupation. So who can become engineer? Guṇa-karma, one who has acquired the qualification of engineering profession and is actually acting as engineer. That is wanted. Guṇa-karma. Kṛṣṇa never says, "Birth" But later on, because an engineer trains his boy as engineer, so naturally he becomes also engineer. Formerly, as we understand from the history of Ajāmila... He was a son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was being trained up as a brāhmaṇa. That was the system. Not that because he has born in the brāhmaṇa family he becomes brāhmaṇa. No. He has got the chance of being trained up as brāhmaṇa by the brāhmaṇa father. So it became later on as caste, by birth, because naturally a brāhmaṇa father trains his son to become brāhmaṇa. But when the brāhmaṇa's son becomes a cobbler, that does not mean he is still brāhmaṇa. That we find from the... Tadīya lakṣaṇaṁ dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). If a brāhmaṇa's son has become a cobbler, he should be called a cobbler, or a cobbler's son has become a brāhmaṇa, he should be called a brāhmaṇa. Not by the birth. But it became a qualification of birth because formerly it was easy, because he is dealing with his father and father is brāhmaṇa, so automatically, fifty percent he becomes brāhmaṇa, and fifty percent by training, then he becomes complete brāhmaṇa—by association, by family. So it is not that a cobbler cannot become brāhmaṇa if he also acquires the qualification of a brāhmaṇa. Nārada said, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). If he has already acquired the qualification of brāhmaṇa then he should be called a brāhmaṇa. Not that a brāhmaṇa's sons becomes qualified as a cobbler, tannery expert, and he remains brāhmaṇa. That is not. He has no knowledge. That means if you have studied all the Vedic literature, he could not say like that. The injunction is tadīya lakṣaṇaṁ dṛśyeta. The qualification, if you find elsewhere, then he should be designated by the qualification. A doctor's son, instead of taking up the life of medical life, if he becomes engineer, so he should be called engineer, not doctor. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35), it is clearly said.
Prabhupāda: So to possess the knowledge of God, the best duty of man is to take knowledge from God about God. I know myself, that he says, that God knows Himself. So if God knows, that is natural. I know what I am. So if you take knowledge of me from me instead of speculating, that is perfect knowledge. So here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the God is explaining Himself. So if you simply take the knowledge given by God, that is your perfected knowledge of God. Why you are speculating? You are wasting time. Take the knowledge from God about Him, and then you have perfect knowledge. Why should you speculate? Suppose I am studying you, I am speculating, "Well, Hayagrīva may be like this, he might have so much money, he might have so much bank balance, he is living like that," this is speculation. But if I say, "Hayagrīva, what you are?" you say, "I have got this, I do like this," that is my perfect knowledge. Why shall I speculate?
Hayagrīva: Well then you wouldn't be able to write so many books.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No. When I have got perfect knowledge, then I can write.
Hayagrīva: He draws a distinction between atheism and positivism. He says, "Atheism, even from the intellectual point of view, is a very imperfect form of emancipation, for its tendency is to prolong the metaphysical stage indefinitely by continuing to seek for new solutions of theological problems instead of setting aside all inaccessible researches on the grounds of their utter inutility. In a word, atheism is still concerned with studying the 'why' instead of the 'how,' and positivism, true positivism, is concerned with the 'how' instead of the 'why.' " In other words, he felt that religion quo religion, religion as religion, had best be set aside because religious questions are basically childish. They can never be answered. So atheism is rejected because atheists "occupy themselves with theological problems and yet reject the only appropriate method of handling them." And for him the only appropriate method is to forget the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: So how can he forget? Atheism will help anyone to improve his position? Just like death. Atheist, if he does not believe in God and God sends him death, how he can counteract it? He has no power to counteract it. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā that death is God for the atheist. Atheists do not believe in God, but God comes to him as death to convince him that "Here I am." So how the atheist can avoid? How it will improve his present situation by atheistic speculation? So how the atheist can become independent? That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: Mankind, all mankind.
Prabhupāda: All mankind? There are millions and millions of mankind. So instead of worshiping God you can worship millions of millions of men. Is it possible?
Hayagrīva: He must mean mankind in a generalized sense.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but how you can serve the mankind? Suppose if I serve one man, does it..., is it worshiping the mankind? If not, then how you can worship millions of men at a time, or in your life? How it is possible?
Hayagrīva: Well he felt, um, that the worship of humanity could be systematized, just like the worship of God, and he even devised a calendar devoted to the worship of famous dead men, and he felt that the churches could serve for a while as places to carry out these ceremonies. He says, "The buildings erected for the service of God may for a time suffice for the worship of humanity in the same way that Christian worship was carried on at first in pagan temples as they were gradually vacated."
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one has got full sense of God, they cannot stick to the worshiping method. And we have got practical experience in Los Angeles that we purchased that church because it was not going on at all. They made plans for Sunday school and so on, so on, but somehow or other it failed. Nobody was coming to the church. At last it was sold to us. Now this same church is there, and the same Americans are there, but at the present moment in our Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple it is always packed up. So what is the reason? The same church is there and the same men are there, but formerly nobody was coming, so that the church was sold to us. Now it is all packed up. What is the reason? The reason is that simply religious sentiment, assembly in the church, will not help us unless there is spiritual life and based on philosophy and full understanding of the goal of life. That will make religion perfect; otherwise no.
| Page Title: | Instead of (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=145, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 145 |