Expressions researched:
"indulgation"
|"indulge"
|"indulged"
|"indulgence"
|"indulgences"
|"indulgent"
|"indulgently"
|"indulger"
|"indulges"
|"indulging"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco: Interviewer: The swami... Now did I understand you to say the swami has no sex life?
Prabhupāda: No, certainly not.
Interviewer: Certainly not. All right, now when you...
Prabhupāda: Well, actually sex life is allowed only to the householders. According to Vedic culture, sex life is restricted. There are four divisions of society. The brahmacārī is strictly forbidden for sex life. The vānaprastha, they are also forbidden for sex life, and the sannyāsī, they are also forbidden for sex life. So out of four divisions, three divisions are strictly forbidden for sex life. Only the householders they can have restricted sex life with married wife simply for begetting children. That is the Vedic culture.
Interviewer: Only for propagating children.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Interviewer: Then there is a similarity to Catholicism. The priest is supposed to be celibate.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Anywhere there is spiritual conception, sex life is not indulged. Anywhere, either it may be Christianity or Hinduism... Sex life is materialism. That is opposite number of spiritualism. So people are trained gradually to refrain from sex life. And in the sannyāsa life he's completely trained. Therefore he's allowed to move in the society for preaching spiritual education.
Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco: Interviewer: No meat of any kind.
Prabhupāda: No. No meat, no onion, no garlic, no intoxication, no liquor, we don't smoke even, we don't take tea, coffee. We simply take what is absolutely necessary for keeping the body fit to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't indulge in luxury..., or for the satisfaction of the tongue.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles: Interviewer: I see. Would you say that there were times when, well, that there were marriages which were also illicit?
Prabhupāda: No. Of course, in civilized human society, either in India or in any other country, marriage is considered as sanctified, either in Hindu community or Christian community or Mohammedan community. But apart from that, for spiritual advancement, according to Vedic culture, sex indulgence is always restricted.
Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: We don't mention any particular thing. Generally we say "No intoxication."
Interviewer: But that's a negative. I'm talking now about... What about the positive aspects of it? Because I have known some very wicked people who never indulged in intoxicants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes...
Interviewer: I doubt if that is your dividing line.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Simply becoming non-intoxicated does not mean that he is a very good man. That I admit.
Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio: Prabhupāda: That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapaḥ divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore: Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.
Guest (4): And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?
Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.
Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education?
Prabhupāda: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhāratavarṣa. So we are not giving the bhāratīya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow: Prabhupāda: ...his whole life is changed. Yes. Because these four things—illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling—they are very great impediments for social improvement.
Guest: And that will automatically make his life simpler because a person who is not indulging in illicit sex life or intoxication and other things has to live a comparatively simpler life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: That's right. One will live much simpler life, agreed. But at the same time, would it change some complex things...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. oh, yes.
Guest: No, no, it won't change the complex for simple reason that a person who's not indulging in this one and he's conscious, he'll be also concious to work hard competitively when he is quite sure that he cannot rob somebody if he wants his food, and he can't rob it.
Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville: Interviewer: Not to eat meat?
Prabhupāda: No. They are prohibited from illicit sex life. They are prohibited to intoxication. They do not smoke even, what to speak of other intoxications. And they are prohibited not to indulge in gambling. So if they can observe these four rules and regulations, they become perfect men. Simply.
Interviewer: Or women I presume.
Prabhupāda: Woman or man. Anyone.
Interviewer: Men or women. There is place for women in the religion too isn't...?
Prabhupāda: Woman and man have got the same right. Just like we are getting married boys and girls. They're following the same principles. The same principles. So these are the four pillars of perfect life. And if we indulge in these things, illicit sex life, meat-eating, and intoxication, and gambling, then they become the four pillars of sinful life. And If we take them away, then they become, the prohibited portion becomes the pillars of perfect life.
Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville: Interviewer: Yes. So if I ask questions which, you know, sound sort of ignorant...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I shall...
Interviewer: ...I ask your indulgence. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughs)
Interviewer: You are the expert, and I know very, very little about this.
Prabhupāda: Expert is Kṛṣṇa. He is expert (indistinct). (laughs)
Interviewer: The expert is Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That much I understand. Yes. In fact Kṛṣṇa is everything. (Prabhupāda chants japa) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...so he is authorized.
Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville: Interviewer: Not to eat meat?
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore prohibited for illicit sex life. Therefore prohibited to intoxication. They do not smoke even, what to speak of other intoxication. And therefore prohibited not to indulge in gambling. So if they can observe these four rules and regulations, they will become perfect men. Simple.
Interviewer: Or women, I presume.
Prabhupāda: Oh, men or women.
Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville: Interviewer: There is place for women in the religion too, isn't there?
Prabhupāda: No, man and woman has got, have got the same right. Just like we are getting married boys and girls. They are following the same principles, the same principles. So these are the four pillars of perfect life. If we indulge in these things—illicit sex life, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling—then they become the four pillars of sinful life. And if we take them away, then they become, the prohibitive portion, becomes the pillars of perfect life.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London: Sister Mary: It's very difficult to think of God.
Prabhupāda: No. It is not difficult. It is difficult for the sinners. Those who are not sinners, it is not difficult. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said:
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvanda-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
One can chant the holy name of the Lord if one is free from all sinful activities. A person who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. Therefore we ask our students, first discipline is that he must not have illicit sex life, he must not eat meat, he must not take any kind of intoxication, he must not indulge in gambling. Because these are sinful activities. So if one is engaged in these sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. It is impossible. One who is sinner, he cannot concentrate his mind on God. So voluntarily we should give up these sinful activities. Then it will be possible.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London: Prabhupāda: Irritated... If your mind is in peace... If you are not indulging in intoxication, gambling, illicit sex, then your mind will not be irritated. How a gambler can be in peaceful mind? That is not possible. How a drunkard can be in peaceful mind? Agitation is for them who are simply engaged in sinful life. Those who are not engaged in sinful life, naturally they are peaceful. Their mind is not agitated. Vegetarians are naturally peaceful. Just see between a dog and a cow. (laughter). Dog unnecessarily will talk: "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (makes barking sound) without any fault. "Why you are here? Why you are here? Why you are here?" That is dog's qualification. A cow, so useful animal, it will never agitate. The dog has no use, but still he's the best friend. (laughter) And cow, actually giving us milk, sending to the slaughterhouse. Just see. This is human civilization. A dog is worshiped, and a cow is slaughtered. Do you think it is civilization? Do you think? Can you support this?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura: Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?
Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York: Prabhupāda: Huh? They're drinking, they're eating meat, they're gambling and they are having illicit sex, and they are preaching. And we say, "First of all stop these things, then claim yourself to be religious, or God conscious." You cannot indulge in all these things. (aside:) Oh, you have kept my one cloth outside?
Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's outside.
Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York: Prabhupāda: This is the cure: I am making good character. Don't you see their face? Some of them were hippies, frustrated, wretched condition. Now they are known as bright faces, serious character. They don't have any illicit sex. They don't eat meat. They don't have any intoxication. They don't engage in gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you allow people to indulge in sinful life, how you can expect good citizen? That is not possible. Their character must reform. So we have taken from the root. We are making men of character, knowledge, sincerity, God conscious. Don't you appreciate it?
Guest (2): Will they be able to function in a society as working individuals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing prohibited. Simply you have to change your consciousness, that's all. We are also eating, we are also sleeping. Many of our students are householders; they have sex. So there is..., nothing is prohibited, but regulated for higher achievement. That is our program.
Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London: Prabhupāda:
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
After forgetting Kṛṣṇa, one wants to lord it over the material nature, but he becomes... (break) Especially in the Western world, everywhere attracted sex life. Mini-skirt so that the other party may be attracted. So many means and ways they want to avoid the after-results of sex life, contraceptive. The center is sex life. They are giving up everything, the hippies, but sex is there. That they cannot give up. So-called giving up, but they cannot give up the real central point. So this is māyā. He's captured by this one idea, mithuna. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is attracted by this sex life. We are trying to use this sex life in different way. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa-bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They're becoming diseased in so many ways. Sex life, indulgence of sex life means you will become diseased, so many diseases. That is a medical fact. So this movement is very scientific movement, authorized. Anyone who will take to it seriously, sincerely, will be cured of this material disease and be happy.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban: Prabhupāda: Of course there are good men and bad men, and good men are taking to this movement because it is a good movement. "Good" means not having illicit sex, not eating meat, not indulging in intoxication, and not indulging in gambling. If anyone observes these four principles, he is considered a good man, and if he does not observe them, he is a bad man. So good men will take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and bad men will not. We give distinct rules on how to become good, for if one does not become good, how can he understand God, who is all good? First we must become good men; then we can understand God. God is all good, and if we don't become good we cannot understand Him. That's all. It's up to us to make the choice. The past, present and future are open for everyone. There is no restriction; no one says, "This class of men shall be good, and this class of men shall be bad." Anyone can become good. If we educate a child nicely, he becomes good, but if we train him foolishly, he becomes a rascal. It is the duty of the government, of the father and of the teachers to make everyone good. If the government is bad, if the father is bad, and the society is bad—how can the child be good? Everywhere the government, father and society are bad; and therefore we are producing bad men, and therefore there is no peace and prosperity.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samādhi, called samprajñāta-samādhi and asamprajñāta-samādhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajñāta-samādhi. In the asamprajñāta-samādhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogī is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogī is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogī indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogīs who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogīs are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way.
Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: All of them. All of them. Just like one is indulging in intoxication. He may say that "I am very pure." But how one can become pure, he's addicted to intoxicants? So I heard from one of my disciples that there is a hospital in U.S.A., and five thousand priests are there for curing their intoxication habit. Do you know that?
Father Tanner: I didn't know that number, but I know that there are hospitals and sanatoriums...
Prabhupāda: So if the priest is going to hospital for curing his intoxication habit, he's hypocrite.
Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: Just like these boys, they are very young, twenties, between twenty to thirty. So they are made here brahmacārī, and some of them are sannyāsī, but they are strictly following these principles. Because they are young men, there cannot be any concession that he can become intoxicants, he can indulge in meat-eating. No.
Father Tanner: But would you think of a young man as wise man? Isn't it normal that a young man is working his way towards wisdom?
Prabhupāda: The wise man becomes by knowledge, not by age. Even an old man, if he has no knowledge, what is...? He is not wise man. Wise means one who has attained knowledge. He may be young, he may be old. It doesn't matter. Vidyatvaṁ vayasā vinā. In Sanskrit word, that one becomes elderly without being advanced in age. That means he knows the knowledge. Therefore he is elderly. An elderly person means advanced in knowledge, not by age.
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London: Buddhist Monk (1): ...that it was here in this earth when they
indulge in sensualities. (More people coming in)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. Jaya. (pause) You are from India? (Hindi—few sentences with guest) So we are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa, the most delightful feature. So chanting and dancing before Kṛṣṇa, taking His prasādam, and practicing delightful nature, awakening the delightful consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: Violate.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "You should not do this." Just like in the śāstra it is said that you should not indulge in sinful activities.
Reporter: Hm. That's the vikarma.
Prabhupāda: That is vikarma. If you act sinfully, against the injunctions of the śāstra, then it is sinful, that is vikarma. And akarma means which does not produce any other result. That is akarma. Karma, akarma, vikarma. Yes. But generally we act, we indulge in karma to get some result. And that is karma. That is not vikarma. Vikarma, when you act against the principles of sinful activities, no, no, when you act as sinful activity, just like striyaḥ sūnā (Sanskrit). Four kinds of sinful activities are described in the śāstras: illicit sex life. You can not indulge in sex life without marriage, that is illicit, that is sinful. So killing animals unnecessarily, that is sinful. Then intoxication, that is sinful. And gambling. These are sinful activities. So when you do not obey the orders of the śāstra and engage yourself in sinful activities, that is vikarma, you're becoming bound up being entangled. Therefore bhakti is the safest platform, because you do not produce any more karma. Whatever karma you have to act, it is finished in this life. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Otherwise, beginning from ant, up to the Brahmā, everyone is bound up by the reaction of karma.
Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street. Don't touch it. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And treat all living entities as you want to be treated. If one has got these three qualifications, he is learned man. He does not say, one who has got this BAC, DAC degrees, and so on, so on, so on. No. The result of his education is to be seen by three manifestations: treating all women as mother; treating others' money, property, as garbage, as rubbish in the street; and treating all living entities as you want to be treated yourself. If one has attained these three development of knowledge, he is learned. There is no question of literary education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. So if we covet other's wife, if we eat meat, if we indulge in intoxication, if we indulge in gambling, we are polluting the whole society.
Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: You may be in any material condition. Still you can develop your spiritual consciousness. That is there. But sometimes we accept a certain position for our personal convenience. That is another thing. But spiritual consciousness is not dependent on any material condition. It is spontaneous. Either he's a householder or a sannyāsī or brahmacārī or business man, or... It doesn't matter. He can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious if he accepts the principles. (break) ...we have got our regulative principles, no illicit sex. So is it very difficult thing? A householder has got his wife. Why he should indulge in illicit sex? It is simply self-control. (aside:) You can keep it here. If somebody comes, you shall give him.
Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: This is their rascal's philosophy. They have no idea that by training one can forget sex life. So if you forget sex life, where is the question of abortion? Where is the question of abortion? But they cannot do that. Therefore, it is said adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By nonrestricted sense enjoyment they are gradually going to the animal, lower grade of life. They cannot explain why there are so many varieties of life. They cannot explain. So this killer of baby within the womb, so the result will be that this man who is, I mean to say, indulging in abortion, he'll be put into the womb, and somebody will kill him. And as many wombs or babies he has killed, he'll have to take so many lives and being killed. So much so that it will be rather impossible for him for hundreds of years not to see the light. He'll remain in the womb and being killed. Does not know the nature's law. One cannot violate the nature's law. You can violate the state law. Suppose you kill somebody, you can escape by trick. But you cannot escape nature's law. As many times you have killed, so many times you have to be killed within the womb. This is nature's law.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm: Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making men of character, men of religion, men of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.
Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Oh, oil drilling. So you are theologician. You start this movement, plus our Hare Kṛṣṇa party. And leaders, the propaganda should be that the, at least the priests, who are conducting religious activities, they, the priests and the leaders and the administrators, they must be sinless. Or... Sinless means they should not indulge in these four prohibited principles. Others may do. But the leaders, the political executive, administrators, and the priests who are conducting the church, they must be free from sinful life. Otherwise, there is no question of peace in the society.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii: Bali Mardana: Well, like, someone like Karandhara. He suggested for him to go there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if he does not chant, that will be bad example. If he does not agree, then it is fallen down. Now he's denying to chant. He's denying to chant; he's indulging in sex. What does it mean? He'll be a bad example wherever he goes.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life.
Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Rascal civilization, rascal government. And people are transferred into rascals. (Hindi) Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Without anna, how they can live? There is no arrangement for anna. They're simply passing resolution, legislative laws. And no anna. Just see what kind of wretched government it is. Everywhere. There is no anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. The first duty of government is to see that everyone is happy, without any anxiety. These preliminary necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunam, there must be sufficient arrangement for these preliminary necessities of life. One must eat sumptuously. Not over-eating, indulgence.
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay: Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya, śūdra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. (break) ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brāhmaṇa, don't find actual kṣatriya, don't find actual vaiśya, so all śūdras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. (break) ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader. The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. (break) ...countries there are even shops, they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they, they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: Similarly, if in the society the brāhmaṇa class and above, post-graduate of brāhmaṇa class, Vaiṣṇava, is not there, then the whole society will spoil . They will indulge in this meat-eating and drinking wine and illicit sex. Then it will be hell, and it has already become. Whole world is full of hellish person. In a civilized country like America you cannot walk alone in the street at night. India is still honest. Any part of India, you can walk. Because the more sinful. Is it not? In New York, especially in Brooklyn or anywhere, you cannot walk alone. Is it not? Yes. Your life is at risk. That Central Park, nobody can walk there. I have heard from many women that they rape. The negroes, they capture and rape. Life is unsafe even in a civilized city like New York. So what is this civilization? Our (name withheld) was... (break) ...Park. (Name withheld) our. Yes, she said.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Richard Webster: Is this due to machines, do you think, to the prevalence of machines?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is due to third-class, fourth-class men. There is no first-class men. The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men, the kṣatriyas are considered to be second-class men, and the vaiśyas, they are third-class men, and rest, all fourth-class and fifth-class. So at the present moment there is third-class, some, and all fourth-class and fifth-class. There is no first-class and second-class men. So unless they are, at least some of them are first-class men, ideal, the human society is doomed. It cannot be peaceful. Full of śūdras, fourth-class men. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: These boys, although they are young men, they will never go to cinema. They are young men. They have got all propensities. But they are so elevated, they have given up all these low propensities, going to the club, restaurant, and cinema or naked dance and this and that, no. Because they are first-class men, they cannot indulge in the third-class, fourth-class proclivities. We are training them in that way. That is required.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva: Yogeśvara: Every time a gentleman like that comes or a man like that comes and we get too close to the point about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they seem to become afraid.
Prabhupāda: No, as soon as we raise this question, killing, he became sorry. He has no answer. Therefore he wants to be out, evade. "Why Christians are killing?" Anyone I raise this question, immediately he becomes stopped, mum, dumb. That's all. Christian community, there are so many. Practically the majority of the human society, they are Christian. They are the persons who are indulging in killing. And where is Christian? Judging from the Ten Commandments, there is not a single Christian, not a single, and still, they are going, the Pope, the cardinal, the priest, the church. All simply show-bottles, that's all. There is no life. And therefore it is dwindling. Practically... Just like our Los Angeles was Christian Church. Nobody was coming. Therefore it was sold. And now there is no place to accommodate devotees. Life is lost in Christian religion. Nobody is interested, no more. And within a few years, it will be lost. It is lost in... I have seen in England. Nobody is going to church. All churches are being closed.
Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gītā, sex life, He says that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varṇa-saṅkara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris: Yogeśvara: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
- hrasva-kāyā mahāhārā
- bhūry-apatyā gata-hriyaḥ
- śaśvat kaṭuka-bhāṣiṇyaś
- caurya-māyoru-sāhasāḥ
Patiṁ tyakṣyanti nirdravyaṁ bhṛtyā apy akhilottamam. "The natural tendency will be to give up, divorce, husband, especially when he has no sufficient money." The wife will divorce. Or the husband has no sex power. The wife... The divorce case takes place in two: when the sex indulgence is not very good, and when the husband has no money.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris: Prabhupāda: From their fathers. Yes. Because in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill," and their fathers indulge in killing business. So naturally their generation has degraded. (French)
Bhagavān: What did he say?
Yogeśvara: He said whether there was much discussion after the meeting last night.
Bhagavān: Oh, yes. There was...
Yogeśvara: Yes, they stayed until midnight.
Bhagavān: The total attendance yesterday was close to two thousand people. And at least one thousand people stayed until twelve o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Twelve o'clock.
Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas: Prabhupāda: (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda) At the present moment it is required that the leading men should understand the aims of life and introduce it in the society for the general benefit of the human society. In the present chaotic position of the society... Just like we see on the road, cars are running with great speed, this way and that way, but they do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any one of them that "What is the aim of life, and why you are running so speedily, and what is the business?" Everyone will say, "I have got business. I am going hurriedly." And if I ask, "What is that business?" "Business means to earn some money and maintain the family." that's all. So is it a fact that to earn some money and maintain the family or at night sleep or sex indulgence, is that the aim of life? So that is my submission to the heads of the cultural movement. Is that the cultural end, to sleep at night or sex indulgence and at night earn money and maintain the family? I am asking this question.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta: Prabhupāda: Then why she has sex?
Guest (1): Well, in this present world I think, you know, sex is not for procreation, it is more for fun. I think ninety-nine percent of the couples who indulge in sex do not think of children at that time.
Prabhupāda: But that is sinful.
Guest (1): That's true. But this is also true that ninety-nine percent people when they indulge in it...
Prabhupāda: Ninety-nine percent may be all rascals and fools, that is not true.
Guest (1): For the common, I think masses, some practical means are needed rather than...
Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran: Prabhupāda: So society recognizes the sense gratification, whether it is bhidheya or abhidheya?
Indian man: What is bhideya or abhidheya?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā says, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam (BG 6.21). Bliss which is supreme, that is to be appreciated by atīndriya. Atīndriya means beyond the senses. So those who are indulging in senses, the Tantra indulges in senses. Is that spiritual? That is not spiritual. That is material.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran: Prabhupāda: When one has got his wife, why he should indulge in illicit sex? This is sinful. When we have got so many things to eat, why shall I go to kill an animal, eat it? So these are anartha. Anartha means "without any meaning." So these things become vanquished. If one is actually engaged in devotional service, the first symptom will be that he is not interested in things which are unwanted, artificial. These are the stages. Then niṣṭhā. Niṣṭhā means firm conviction. Then ruciḥ, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, and then prema. So as a student is serious, he gets promotion to next higher class, higher class, higher class, higher class, gradually to the M.A. class. That is natural. But if in the beginning he is not serious, no enthusiasm, then what is the reason that he will be promoted to the higher section? That is not possible.
Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth: Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.
Amogha: They all seem to think that spiritual life is something to think about, something...
Prabhupāda: Not very important.
Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Godlessness means foolishness because...
Journalist: Is liquor... Too much liquor and self-indulgence?
Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.
Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?
Prabhupāda: Rascal. How can I say, "There is no God"? Is it very reasonable? Just like you have got a father, and your father has got father, his father has got father... Go on. You come to the supreme father, the original father. There must be one original father. That is God. How can I deny God? Can you deny?
Journalist: No, I don't deny.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu: Siddha-svarūpa: Why not speak on what we're trying to speak about instead of overly indulge in that which is beyond debate actually?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Siddha-svarūpa: Ask them, "Are you the body?" If they say, "Yes," and then ask them to show how...
Prabhupāda: Just like here in America I have come to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am not interested for sight-seeing. That is not my business. Whatever you say, "It is here like this," "All right, That's all, finished." Why should we try to confirm it? Whatever you say, that's all right. Now, we are seeing the other part; if somebody there, "It is like this," that's all right. I'm not going to test it. So what is the use of arguing? I have no interest.
Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: Indulge in sex.
Siddha-svarūpa: ...indulge in sex so that it's just a cultural thing that they actually try to control that just for health and mental power, whereas in the west the leaders and the people in general... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...and because they indulge too much in sex, therefore they cannot understand. That is the proof they are fools.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) ...control themselves. The colonialists will go in and... (break)
Prabhupāda: Unless they are taught about spiritual attraction, everyone will be finished. (break) ...very childhood they should be given spiritual education. (break) ...by repressive method you will never be successful.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man. So this Gurukula means from the childhood age we are training them so that in future it will be easier. That is the purpose of Gurukula.
Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco: Paramahaṁsa: Originally when I came to the movement I asked you this, remember? And you gave lectures on the subject, and I asked you about it. And you asked me for what purpose I wanted it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ. Formerly, especially in Bengal, the gold merchants are taken as—that is artificial, of course—the low class because they are rich, and they indulge in these four kinds of prohibition. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto: Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like."
Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Just see. There are books here also, Kāma-śāstra. So sex enjoyment also you cannot enjoy unlimitedly. Then you will become impotent. Then you will have to call your wife as "mother," as some saintly person did. He was indulging in sex in his young age, and when he was married he saw himself impotent, and therefore he invented some way that "I have realized Brahman. I can call my wife also 'mother.' " And he became famous—"Oh, he is so advanced. He has learned how to..." But in the history we will not find this. Even Vyāsadeva had his wife, but he never said his wife, "mother."
Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.
Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance.
Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay: Prabhupāda: I do not know, but...
Dr. Patel: He took a big vow. He took a big vow at the age of forty-three years. That mahan, mah-vrata, what they call it? For not indulging in sex.
Prabhupāda: That is one of the qualification...
Dr. Patel: That is one of them. But by controlling their sex, people derive much (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is a fact.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: So why they are drying? They should water it. (break) (Bengali) They are doing rightly. There are so many men. Why this should be not taken care of? (break) ...not indulge to give shelter persons—in the name of so-called japa they take advantage of free boarding and lodging. You should be very careful. Everyone should be, according to capacity, must be engaged to some work. Don't allow this stupidity. (break) ...plants are grown properly you get so many fruits. They are drying. There is so much space. You can get the sak and the fruit also.
Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.
Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: What they will think of at the death, why you are conjecturing now? Their habits are rascal, they're making pregnant, illicit sex, what they will think? Anyway, if we give indulgence to these people, then this preaching work will be hampered.
Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto: Kathy Kerr: Are you doing anything to try and contact people, the educated men, to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, many. Many educated. They are coming, trying to understand. But it requires little brain. So-called educated with dull brain cannot understand. So to make their brain finer to understand, we are prohibiting four things: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. If one refrains from these four prohibited things, then he can develop his brain to understand. And if one indulges in these four things, his brain will never be able to understand. Just like a dog having sexual intercourse on the street, so if I request the dog that "Don't do this, it is not very good," he'll never understand.
Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto: Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.
Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.
Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.
Hari-śauri: We used to have a Reverend who was in charge of our local church when I was a child. And when we used to go on outings, sometimes they used to organize outings for children to the seaside and everything, and they would stop at a public house and they would give refreshments. So all the children would get lemonade, like that, and the grown-ups would go and drink some beer or something. So the...
Prabhupāda: Their father, mother drinking, and the child is given some soft drinking. And learning how to drink when he'll grow up.
Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban: Prabhupāda: If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all (Sanskrit) is finished. (Sanskrit) We are no more interested in unnecessary things. Illicit sex—one side they are encouraging contraceptive method, so why they'll not stop illicit sex, then automatically there is contraceptive method? So one side there is encouraged, contraceptive method, another, unlimited, unrestricted sex. This is their civilization. Why not teach him not to practice illicit sex? Then everything is done automatically. There's no need of contraceptive method. If one is trained up to indulge in sex only for begetting nice children, there is already contraceptive method. There is no necessity of unnecessarily producing cats and dogs children. So that requires training, determination. The śāstra says you should not become father if you cannot train up your children to save him from death.
Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban: Prabhupāda: If he does not require children, he should not enjoy sex life with his wife. Modern society enjoys sex life with contraceptive methods or more abominable methods to avoid the responsibility of children. This is not in the transcendental quality, but it is demoniac. If anyone, even if he is a householder, wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must control his sex life and should not beget a child without the purpose of serving Kṛṣṇa. If he is able to beget children who will be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can produce hundreds of children, but without this capacity one should not indulge only for sense pleasure. Sacrifice is another item to be performed by the householders, because sacrifices require a large amount of money. Other orders of life, namely the brahmacarya, the vānaprastha and sannyāsa, have no money; they live by begging. So performance of different types of sacrifice is meant for the householder.
Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban: Hari-śauri: We don't have a fan in here... I have to bring a fan from somewhere else.
Prabhupāda: No, no, bring, you can bring some soft cloth. Why this is, you bring some soft cloth. So don't indulge such nonsense question. You must personally understand. That is knowledge. If you are reading Bhagavad-gītā, how you can accept nonsense, he says that "I can talk with Kṛṣṇa without spiritual master." It is absurd proposition. So why you should accept such absurd proposition unless you are also another absurd? If you knew that it is not possible, you "You rascal." Don't talk with him. Don't waste time. But you also do not know with whom God talks. Clearly stated. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ (BG 10.10). Teṣām evānukampārtham (BG 10.11). Why don't you read all these proposals? With whom God talks? Hmm? Why did you not?
Devotee (2): I'm familiar with those verses.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.: Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga.
Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London: Prabhupāda: "All the rules and regulations apply equally to the householder and the sannyāsī, the member of the renounced order of life. The grhastha, however, is given permission by the spiritual master to
indulge in sex during the period favorable for procreation."
- añjanābhyañjanonmarda-
- stry-avalekhāmiṣaṁ madhu
- srag-gandha-lepālankārāṁs
- trajeyur ye bṛhad-vratāḥ
"Brahmacārīs or grhasthas who have taken the vow of celibacy as described above should not indulge in the following: applying powder or ointment to the eyes, massaging the head with oil, massaging the body with the hands, seeing a woman or painting a woman's picture, eating meat, drinking wine, decorating the body with flower garlands, smearing scented ointment on the body, or decorating the body with ornaments. These they should give up."
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm): Prabhupāda: Within thirty-six years there were two big wars, slaughter. Especially Europe. Nature will create. Pestilence. Somewhere there is pestilence, somewhere there is war, somewhere there is scarcity of food. But you cannot indulge in sinful activities. Then you'll be killed. Then nature's law will act. You may defy, that's your business, but nature will act in her own way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. That is not possible. But they are foolish, they are trying to conquer over nature by their so-called scientific knowledge. They are such a rascal. You change the color of this fruit and flower, conquer over nature. So rascal, they talk rascal, "It will take millions of years." We have to wait million. "Yes, from chemical we shall bring life. Wait million of years." This is going on. And for such thing, big building, laboratory, research, scientific research. Big, big signboard. And the students out of disappointment, going to the roof and falling down, committing suicide. I saw it?
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm): Prabhupāda: They will be more and more impressed. What is this city life? In Paris, simply to fulfill the necessities of life, a professional prostitute, so many. And people from all over the world, they come here for indulge in prostitute. From our childhood we know. What a civilization they have made. Spoiling the life. Then, after finish this life, you just become a cat, a dog, or a tree and stand up. And all other planets are vacant. Simply this planet is filled up, overpopulation. Kill them. Why not send there? So vacant land. (laughter) "That we cannot do." Then what is your scientific research? "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." (laughter) These bluffing rascals. Don't be misled. Live peacefully here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). In the Kali-yuga, the other yajñas are not possible. First of all, there is no yājñika-brāhmaṇa and paraphernalia, so many things. Perhaps if we perform yajña and pour ghee on it, immediately government arrest. Ghee can be produced immense. I have studied. Immensely, you can produce, by keeping cows. Kṛṣṇa has recommended, go-rakṣya. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. The go-rakṣya is essential. It is not that animal slaughter stopping, no. Kṛṣṇa could have said paśu-rakṣya. No, Kṛṣṇa has not said. Go-rakṣya. Those who are animal eaters, they can indulge in eating other insignificant animals.
Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: Don't talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals proposal. Don't indulge in this rascal theory.
Indian devotee: Now there is a society for prevention to the cruelty to animals. At the same time they are killing the animals also.
Mahāṁsa: They think they can adjust and control.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha.
Indian man: There is a preordained karma that says some human being should come into existence or some spirit soul should take some body.
Prabhupāda: Transmigration.
Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection, cow protection." He has written one book to take care of the cows. So one old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all give this book to your mother because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature. Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kāma-śāstra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year... 1940's maybe. So one young woman was traveling, and another young man was traveling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.
Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana: Indian man (2): We indulge our time...
Prabhupāda: We should stop all rascal plan and should take the plan given by God. Then it will be... Everything will be all right. Simple solution. The God's plan is there in this book. Let us take it. Then everything solved. But "No, we are scientist. We are philosopher. We are big man, politician. We shall make our own." Do and suffer. God has given freedom: "All right." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā after explaining Arjuna everything, then He asked, "What you have decided? Your plan or My plan?" So Kṛṣṇa said, "I am giving you freedom. Whatever you like, you can do." The plan is there. Now it is up to us to accept it or reject it. If you reject, you suffer. If you accept, you become happy. So we are requesting people, "Accept it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "Then you'll be happy." But who cares for us? He is making his own plan. Therefore he must suffer. Nature's law he cannot avoid. That's not possible. Nature's law, there is... (break) ...if God likes, immediately there will be rain.
Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona: Prabhupāda: There is good sex life and bad sex life. One who does not know what is good sex life, what is bad sex life, he's a rascal. Here you have to indulge in sex life which is not against the religious principles. But you must know what is religious and what is irreligious. If you do not know, you are rascal. There are two kinds of sex life. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, "Sex life which is not against the religious principles, that I am." So God is good. So sex life which is not against the religious principles, that is good sex life. Otherwise, it is bad.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam, not to indulge in sense gratification, not to dress himself as a sādhu, as a swami.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Not external.
Prabhupāda: He's servant of his senses, and he has become a swami. Just see how cheating it is.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That's the real meaning.
Prabhupāda: Swami means who is the controller of the senses.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India: Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.
Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: He was nonviolent. "In the name of religion, one can kill." This is his philosophy. He was a politician. That's all. And he indulged personally in mercy killing in his āśrama. One calf was suffering, and he asked, "Kill him. He's very much suffering." Mercy killing. He was a rascal. But we don't say publicly, because he is very much... Sometimes we say.
Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said this sex is the more dangerous than drinking poison for person who are going to advance in spiritual understanding. And they are talking—"Sex is the way of perfection." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana apy asādhu. If one takes poison, that is criminal. So this sex indulgence in devotional life is more dangerous than poison-taking, criminality. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... But the sahajiyās, they are taking that through sex their life... What Gosvāmī? Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa. Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Candidāsa, they read, and they say, "Oh, through sex one can achieve the highest." They publicly say in Vṛndāvana. "I am Kṛṣṇa, and parakīya rasa. You have to select one woman who is not your wife, kept wife, parakīya."
Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri: Gargamuni: 'Cause in India that happens a lot. Especially...
Prabhupāda: No, then father, mother, should not be respected, because they indulged in sexual life and brought me into existence and I am suffering. Then there should be no respect of father and mother. And then this sex life should be stopped, and there is no need of big, big scientist, philosopher. Because this indulgence will bring so many big men, so it should be stopped. But Kṛṣṇa is the father. Why He should not have sex? Any father has got sex. So if you criticize Kṛṣṇa, then you must criticize your father first. But that is not the law of nature nor the law of the society. Law is different. Who will criticize his father? Any sane man? Will any sane man do that? So you are insane. So who is caring for your remark? You are insane.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Amsterdam, who they, lying on the street in center of Europe? What have they done about these poor? On the other hand, the poor have learned how to utilize unrestricted sex and indulge in gambling and intoxication.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For example, in America we find that the less intelligent persons are engaging in illicit sex life, so naturally they have more children, and they're eating meat, so the children are very...
Prabhupāda: And female... And women, girls.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
