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Independent (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"independant" |"independent" |"independently"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: They boil it with.... Oh, you have come. Good morning. Thank you. With rice. I forgot your name.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Keśavalāl Trivedi.

Prabhupāda: Trivedi, Mr. Trivedi, yes. So, who is independent? This is our question. Who is independent? Do you know any man who is independent or any animal or any...?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: No.

Prabhupāda: So why they are thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Unless we have got the identity, correct identity, we cannot be independent.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Mahāmṣa: This is keys for the lock, Prabhupāda. It fell down.

Prabhupāda: I think somebody has left.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes, there is lock and chain.

Mahāmṣa: This way, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Which way? This is natural lake or...?

Mahāmṣa: Yes, Prabhupāda. It never dries up. It stays full all year round.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gigantic. Like the Hyderabad lake.

Mahāmṣa: It looks bigger than the Hyderabad lake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bigger.

Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.

Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...

Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?

Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot, because you are not independent. Uru-damni baddhaḥ. If you are tied hands and legs with strong rope, how you can think of "I shall become free in this way. I shall become free...?" But your hands and legs are tied up, so why do you think foolishly that you shall become free in this way, you shall become free this way? First of all open this, the tightening knot; then you plan that "I shall become..." But there is no such chance. So what is the value of your thinking like that?

Harikeśa: Well, relatively speaking, it's better to do...

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.

Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...

Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?

Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot, because you are not independent. Uru-damni baddhaḥ. If you are tied hands and legs with strong rope, how you can think of "I shall become free in this way. I shall become free...?" But your hands and legs are tied up, so why do you think foolishly that you shall become free in this way, you shall become free this way? First of all open this, the tightening knot; then you plan that "I shall become..." But there is no such chance. So what is the value of your thinking like that?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In no way can anyone say that they're independent. There is no possibility. At every moment one is dependent. And if anyone says they aren't, they are simply foolish rascals. We have to challenge everyone in the world on this point, "You cannot be independent." He is pointing out, saying that even in politics, the politicians like Indira think that they are independent, and Prabhupāda was saying that Munshibhai Raman, he fought so hard for his country's independence, Bangladesh. But in one hour, when the soldiers came, they killed him and every single family member, not sparing anyone. But he thought he was independent. He thought his country had become independent. But in one hour it was all wiped away.

Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Sir Philip Sydney, a great commander, during the fighting time, when he was shot, he asked for water, and the water was not supplied and he died. Now, he was very generous man. He was the commander. Water was brought, and at the same time another soldier was being carried. He was also going to die. He was looking for the water. So immediately he said, "This water give him. Give him," and he died. He was very generous. He knew that "I am going to die. If he can be saved, give him this water." So that Sydney, Sir Philip Sydney, his name. Melbourne, it is also named after great soldier. So where is your independence? If you are thinking independently and doing things independently, then is it not foolishness? Hm? Why don't you answer? You don't want to be foolish? Suppose within the prison walls, if you want to do things independently, is it possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you're always dependent.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: You'll be put into further sufferings as soon as you violate the rules and regulation of the jail. You'll be put to a further term of suffering. Just like they are independently trying to avoid pregnancy, and the same man who has killed his own child, or same mother, he is being killed within the womb. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Nature will not tolerate this. In India still these things are not happening because they are not so advanced to use all these contraceptive method. But in Europe, America, it has become a common affair to kill the child within the womb.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is starting here also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, gradually. As soon as you kill, then you must be killed. This law is there: life for life. So where is your independence? Independence means you are inviting more sufferings, that's all. You go on, declare your independence. We are the only sane man. We have accepted that "We have no independence." Here Kṛṣṇa is asking. "Let me surrender unto..." That's all. So we have to convince the people, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. You are foolishly rascal. You are trying to be independent. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa is asking to surrender. You do that." That will make him happy. In many varieties of ways we have to convince them and prove that "You are foolishly thinking that there is independent, so-called scientific advancement, and only promising, 'Yes, in future we shall be like this, be like this.' " What is future? Just take account of your present position. Where is the history that you have...? If in the past something like that happened, then you can expect future. But in the past, the whole world history, there was no independence. (break) ...clearly says, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) "These rascals, out of false ego, and vidmūḍha, foolishly declaring that 'I am the doer of everything. I can do everything independently.' " Kartāham iti manyate. Manyate means "falsely think." Actually, he is nothing but a small particle. This egotism is the root cause of suffering. Discuss all these things amongst yourselves and preach and inform these rascals, so-called civilized scientists and philosopher. That is preaching. We have to present the truth in such a way that they will be convinced, "Yes." Within fifteen minutes the plane in Arabia, fifty-three men fell. Within fifteen.... It takes fifteen minutes to die. That's all. Where is your independence? You have invented so many nice machine, but when there is order from superior, "You nonsense, your machine.... You die immediately," what you can do? So why don't you accept there is superior? Hm? Why do they not accept? What is the reasoning? You cannot say?

Harikeśa: Vimūḍhātmā.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Harikeśa: Vimūḍhātmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That accept. If he accepts that he's vimūḍha, then it is an advance. Just like a dog is barking, "Yow, yow, yow, yow!" You just run towards him with a stick, he'll immediately go away and stop. Because he is dog, he is thinking, "I am independent. I can bark like this." And as soon as.... Simply one stick-finish his independence. You'll find psychologically, however a big dog he may be, if you just run towards him with a stick, he'll go.... (laughs) He knows that "When this man will strike me with the stick, I cannot do anything." He knows it very well. Sometimes falsely if you touch the ground, he will go away. Everyone is thinking independently. He is forming a party, "revolution," "ism," and so many things. All of them are foolish rascals. They do not see the history. Stronger men than ourselves, Napoleon, Hitler, this man, that man, Gandhi—everyone is finished. So where is.... What is the value of my planning again? (break) There are many gods?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda. He is follower of Vivekananda. (break) ...Vivekananda's house was made, say, eighty years before. So what is the use of this house? It is standing and it is covered with matches.... What is called? Straw? What is called?

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). Every... Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of. He is making plan: "We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this." Therefore they are mūḍhas. That will not help him. He does not know that. And if he simply tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti.. (BG 4.9).. Everything is there. But he will do so many plans, and nothing will be successful. He'll avoid Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class mūḍha. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Vedānta philosophy's first instruction: "Now you inquire about God. This is the only chance. As cats and dogs you cannot do that. Now, atha, ataḥ. You have enjoyed your senses so much as cats, dogs, tigers, so on, so on. Now you devote to understand, inquiry."

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: So the so-called...

Prabhupāda: He is dying. He doesn't want to die, but still he says, "There is no authority." He's suffering. He is becoming old. He doesn't want to become old, but he is so rascal, he does not question, "Why I am becoming old?" So therefore they are all rascals. He says, "I am independent," but he is forced to do something, and still he is independent. What is the remedy? Just like prisoner. He doesn't want to obey. The... A constable comes and kicks him, slaps him. Still, he says, "No, I am independent. I don't care for you." What is this? Hm? (Bengali?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, it's time to go downstairs, if you want to walk outside...

Prabhupāda: What is the time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five minutes past seven now.

Prabhupāda: So they have not come, the workers?

Jagadīśa: They are there. (break)

Hari-śauri: ...without birth, death, disease and old age, then we can simply say that "You already were like that before, but you gave it up because of your mentality."

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Hari-śauri: A person already has the position where he doesn't have to experience birth, death, old age, like that. So if they argue like that, "Why doesn't God give us that position where we can enjoy without God consciousness...?"

Prabhupāda: God has given, giving you the position that "You obey Me, and you get the position," but because you are rascal—you are not obeying—you are suffering.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: So how is it possible that... We're so insignificant, but at the same time we become so puffed up? How is it possible for us...?

Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness, that you are nothing you are thinking very big. That is material consciousness. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll simply think, "Kṛṣṇa is great; we are nothing, insignificant." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long you think that you are independent of Kṛṣṇa—you are also another Kṛṣṇa—then you are fool, rascal. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25).

Hṛdayānanda: That's our madness.

Prabhupāda: Madness. The whole world is going on on this foolish understanding. Therefore they have been described, mūḍha, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "There is no God, there is no Kṛṣṇa, it may be He is impersonal, there is no personality, and I am equal to Him"—these are all rascals, fools.

Dayānanda: So actually there is no way to become detached.

Prabhupāda: The only way is that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Jayapatākā: That's why Lord Caitanya said that "I am not a sannyāsī or a..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa...

Yaśodānandana: Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo...

Prabhupāda: Bhṛtyasya-bhṛtya, servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80). Everyone, if he wants to become a master, that is materialism. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-kṛpā: Does that mean that the atom is living entity?

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jīva bhuta, and that is living entity." So two kinds of atoms are coming from Kṛṣṇa. One is the spiritual atom, and the other is the material atom. So spiritual atoms, they are many, many times greater than the material atoms. And these material atoms is this universal, innumerable universes. Some of the spiritual atoms, when they want to enjoy independently, they are given the chance of enjoying this material atom. So in the material world it is combination of material and spiritual atoms. In the spiritual world, there is no material atom; everything spirit. That is three-fourth energy, and this is one fourth. Paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.

Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. One American woman, was.... She was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. (laughter) The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied, a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Miśra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam: "The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband." That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ kurūpaṇam. A man may be ugly, black, but if he's learned, everyone will respect him. And narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This idea of freedom and independence, is it possible for anyone theoretically to surrender to Kṛṣṇa at any time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let's say someone is in a very degraded condition of life, modes of ignorance, passion. Their mind is always disturbed. Is surrender to Kṛṣṇa.... Is it possible that it can be independent even of the mind?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, let's say someone's mind is...

Prabhupāda: You are independent of mind always. It is your mind. You are not mind.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then you are independent of mind always.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So even a person merged in the mode of ignorance can by some good fortune surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No good fortune. God, Kṛṣṇa, says, "You do it"; you do it. Here immediately you become fortunate. There is no question of waiting for becoming fortunate. You become fortunate immediately. Suppose if I say, "Take this bag, 100,000 dollars." You can take it. Immediately you become rich man. Why don't you take it?

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems that people have great difficulty discriminating today between good and bad.

Prabhupāda: So what is your answer?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've answered very nicely that whatever the authority says is good is good, and whatever the supreme authority says is bad is bad. Independently of what our own way of thinking is, we have to ultimately answer to the supreme authority. Even that lady, she gave the example that in society certain things are good, but they've bent the law, that things which were once bad, they are now accepted as good. So you explained that whatever the authority says is good is good. So the only difference I can see is that the goodness and the badness that Kṛṣṇa has defined are eternal.

Prabhupāda: Bad is this material world, and good is spiritual world. In the material world the discrimination of good and bad is mental concoction.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mano-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakalī samāna.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Then why speak, rascal, that there is life? You cannot do. What you cannot do, why do you speak like a nonsense?

Yadubara: They will say nature does it.

Prabhupāda: Nature? That means you are rascal. Nature is above you. Then worship nature. Be submissive. You are submissive already. It doesn't matter whether you accept or not; nature is pulling you. Nature is stronger than you. There is no doubt about it. Then why you declare that you are independent? You are not independent. Foolishly declaring independence. As soon as you are dependent, you must have to accept God. You may not know who is God and what is God, but somebody who is controlling you, your activities, He is God.

Cyavana: Prabhupāda, in the early fifties the scientists performed an experiment which substantiates their theory that life comes from matter, and they actually created a one-celled being. They made one cell which had life in it. It moved like an amoeba.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they not do now? What is the wrong now?

Cyavana: Well, they've done it. They can do it by creating certain conditions.

Prabhupāda: But why do they not do?

Cyavana: They use amino acids and water and electricity.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: How could father feed even the child?

Prabhupāda: Just see, in all there are so many husbandless girls, and the children have not gone with the husbands, to the man. They are after the mother. How you'll have equal rights? They cannot. At this your heart will cry, "Oh, I have left my children, I am unhappy." That is... Just like our Hari-śauri's grandmother's advice to his mother to kill him. He said. And she refused. This is natural inclination. How... Artificially they are thinking like that, violating nature's law. Therefore they must suffer. As soon as you break ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of being misled by misconception of life, ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra, kartāham, I can do everything. Any little pinch of nature's law, if you break, you'll suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot escape. But still they're thinking, "We're independent." That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, by false prestige, by false identification. He is (indistinct) and he's thinking so many nonsense. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Everything will be explained in Bhagavad-gītā. So try to explain. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, yāre dekha, tāre kaha, 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128).' Bas, finished, "You become a guru." The trouble(?) is there. You haven't got to manufacture your ideas. Just like I'm quoting from Kṛṣṇa's preaching.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Mm? Where are they? Mm.

Hari-śauri: "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Enquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."

Prabhupāda: You have to submit. You cannot remain independent. That is the first condition. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ, śiṣya. Śiṣya means voluntarily accepting the rules offered by the spiritual master. That is śiṣya: "Ah, yes, I agree to abide by your order." Then he becomes śiṣya. Otherwise where is the question... "I am thinking like this, I am thinking..." So long you are thinking otherwise, you don't try to become a śiṣya. You remain outside and you are welcome: chant, dance, take prasādam, and remain independent. There is no objection. But when you become śiṣya, then you cannot remain independent. These things convince him. Then you don't become śiṣya. Remain as friend, there is no harm. Just like so many people, they come. So if these things (indistinct). One thousand twenty, checks (indistinct). This way. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: So then part of initiation means that you're prepared to do something more than simply chant and eat prasādam?

Prabhupāda: Initiation means to follow instructions of the spiritual master. That is the first (indistinct) And if there is still hesitation to surrender to the rules and regulations, then all other (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Bhūrijana: Would you like me to do anything? What would you like me to do? I know I don't want to be independent.

Prabhupāda: Why you are inclined to follow Siddha-svarūpa, your wife and you. What is your special attraction?

Bhūrijana: (indistinct) ...we couldn't always be corresponding with you. I needed some personal instruction.

Prabhupāda: But first of all (indistinct) you what is the special attraction? Your wife said that their instruction is very clear. So what is the distinction between clear and ambiguous. What do you find ambiguous, what do you find clear? What is that?

Bhūrijana: I think the part I found clear, the more introspective points about humility, and changing one's desires...

Prabhupāda: Humility means not to follow the instruction of guru? That is not...

Bhūrijana: No, that is not humility.

Prabhupāda: I'm asking you what is the special attraction? You say... Your wife says it is very clear. What is that clear and ambiguous?

Bhūrijana: You mean what is ambiguous and... (indistinct) what is ambiguous or what...

Prabhupāda: No. You say that is very clear what others are telling you. Now what is that ambiguous, what is that clear?

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be because they are keeping in darkness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These nasty countries, in the name of giving them material facility, they'll kill them, even they're independent. Such a horrible country. How people can tolerate loss of independence? It is very horrible. I am sitting here 24 hours, this is another thing, but if I understand that I cannot go out, I have to sit down here, oh it is horrible. It is a horrible condition. Simply this impression that I have to keep myself within this room, although I am keeping myself, I am not going, only for walk maybe. But if the impression is that I cannot go out from this room, then my life is lost. This is psychology. So, they are keeping their young men. They are not allowed to go out of the country, in Russia. Similarly in China.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Defeat is that "You are scientist. I don't want death. Please stop it." Ask him. "I don't want disease. Please stop it. Then you are scientist. Otherwise I kick on your face."

Devotee (1): Should we go to the colleges and universities and make program?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...these rascals are being controlled at every step; still, they are thinking independent. That is the difficulty. They are being kicked in every moment, and still they are thinking, "I am free."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is following the scientists, too.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is following the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Not everyone. We don't follow. You may follow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Rādhāvallabha: One professor was telling me that he didn't think you should write about all these things about the universe in your books, because none of the scientists will believe it. So I told him that all the scientists were hogs, dogs, camels and asses, and he became enraged, and he left.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it's not so unbelievable.

Prabhupāda: And what is, the scientists will not believe? We say, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming, similarly you have to change body." What scientist has to challenge this? But they are obstinate dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ you have to accept. Can the scientist say, "No, no, no, the child is not going to be a young man or boy"? Can he say like that? Then why they challenge unnecessarily? They are changing the body. Can the scientists stop it? But if they are unreasonable dogs, then what can be done? What argument will reach them? A dog cannot understand.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): First their..., first the telephone service were not free, and then their line was busy for some time. So I just got through to them a few minutes ago, and he says it wasn't printed by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Devotee (5): He said they did it independently, unauthorized from Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and he already chastised them for using the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust label, 'cause it has nothing to do with the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Devotee (5): Uhhh, I'm not sure. Who sent it? Bahulāśva? That devotee named Bahulāśva.

Devotee (6): Bahulāśva and Bhakti dāsa.

Devotee (5): And who else?

Devotee (6): Jayānanda. But Jayānanda... I saw this printed in L.A. before I came here.

Devotee (5): Ohh.

Devotee (6): So I don't think it's a San Francisco endeavor.

Devotee (7): The separations were all...

Devotee (5): No, he said it was done there.

Devotee (6): Oh, in San Francisco?

Devotee (5): Yeah, they printed it while the festival was going on in India, and he didn't know anything about it until he came back and saw that it was all printed. He said they were going to use it for some, something to do with lectures.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (5): They were going to use it to introduce lectures and so forth.

Prabhupāda: When it was not published, so why did he publish unauthorized?

Devotee (5): Oh, I don't know. He said that he was a little upset about it himself.

Prabhupāda: So this should not take place again. They should be informed that without being passed by the authority, nobody should publish any literature.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, this weakness..., you are already necessity of so many things. Make all the necessities zero. At last we at least feel necessity of a woman. (laughing) That you cannot avoid. And then you'll be punished with shoes. (laughing) When you'll become a servant of woman, then you, "No, what is the necessity?" Become thief, you'll become rascal, rogue, you'll be beaten by shoes, and everything is gone. Now these are your necessities. Hippies, they have left no necessities, but the woman is there. (laughing) They have necessities there. Nature is so powerful you'll have to feel this necessity, and with this necessity you'll require so many necessities. (Sanskrit) They're talking like madmen. What the madman does not talk, and what the goat does not eat? (laughing) Means rascals.

Hari-śauri: It boils down to this question of independence.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: They all want to be independent, but there's no chance.

Devotee (4): (break) ...in the kingdom of God, then he can become independent.

Prabhupāda: The idea of God is not for everyone. Only for the brāhmaṇas. Those who are brāhmaṇas at death, brahma-jānāti vibrāhmaṇa. Our process is to give them chance to hear. Then they'll get gradually idea, not immediate. In the beginning let him eat prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (break) "My dear friend, please come. Chant with us, dance with us, and take prasādam." There will be no.... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): One thing though, people, they see that there's birth and death, they don't understand the purpose of the whole creation when they see that so many things are going on like this.

Prabhupāda: There is purpose. We have explained so many times. The purpose is that we have come here to enjoy, but this enjoyment is false. God has given us the chance to enjoy, to experience that this enjoyment is not good. They are simply suffering. They cannot enjoy. The plan is that he's given the chance to enjoy and experience that here there is no enjoyment and he's simply suffering. So when he comes to his sense, he again goes back home. The thief, he thinks that to live in the prison house is very good: "I haven't got to work, and I shall get my food and shelter." That is not.... That is a false enjoyment. Outside the prison, that is enjoyment. If one thinks that "I don't have to work; let me go to the prison house." Father wants that the sons should live in the family, but sometimes the son leaves the family and wants to enjoy independently. So he suffers. Jajīva (indistinct) māyā kare japoti (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He can leave the father's care. But how can he deny father?

Devotee (5): He denies the father. He denies the God the father. He says that's a wish fantasy for ......

Prabhupāda: Fantasy? Father is not fantasy. He is fact. You are grown up. You can leave the protection of the father. But how can you deny father? Then you are a rascal. It is not good to live independent of father. If the rich, opulent, very kind, very merciful, why shall I leave? A father is generally, even though he's personally a bad man, he's still, he's kind, merciful to the son. That he is, actually. A rogue, he loves—just like Ajāmila. He was a rogue, but he was taking care of the youngest child. This is nature, we study that even the father is a rogue, he's kind to his children. So practically he does all nonsense things, but giving protection to the family. So why should he give up the protection of father? When we say father, means all-kindness, all-mercifulness, all taking care. Immediately. In Bengali there is a word, putra davitra hoy, kumāra(?) (indistinct) (indistinct) A son may be bad, but his mother is never bad. Son may be bad, mother.... Son may be bad, but the mother or father is never bad. The father may also be bad, but the mother is never bad.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: But then that limits Kṛṣṇa. If you say that Kṛṣṇa did not know when I will misuse my indep.... or if I will...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That means you do not know what is the independence. You can, you can change your position at any time. That is your independence.

Rāmeśvara: But doesn't Kṛṣṇa know if I will do it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are independent. That is the meaning.

Rāmeśvara: Marginal.

Prabhupāda: What will the.... That will depend on.... And the result He knows. Just as a lawyer knows that he has done this, criminal, he'll be punished like this. So His position to know the future is always there. Either in this condition or other condition.

Rāmeśvara: But the lawyer doesn't...

Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows. Suppose you have got this body; next body he's a dog. I can say you'll bark.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: He says Kṛṣṇa is playing games.

Prabhupāda: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but he says but still, you'll know that I'm going to misuse it.

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa knows, when something charge is given. But because you are independent, I know that "Rāmeśvara is very good boy; let him be in charge." But you can misuse at any moment, because you have got independence. You can misuse at any moment. At that time your position is different. That is this Karandhara's, he was in this position, but as soon as he misused it, immediately, Kṛṣṇa changed his position.

Rāmeśvara: He's so foolish, he blames...

Prabhupāda: That is our foolishness, that we cannot understand. That is our foolishness. How you can understand Kṛṣṇa's activities?

Rāmeśvara: That's the only answer.

Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa is doing.... You are little independent, but He is fully independent. He knows everything. His independence is not under condition; your independence is under condition. If you misuse your independence, you'll suffer.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He wants to become a machine.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he'd rather be a machine and be in Kṛṣṇa's service.

Prabhupāda: No, no, machine we are, but still there is independence. That means you are not absolutely independently, relatively. The state, you say we are American-independent. But that does not mean you can do whatever you like. As soon as you misuse, you are arrested, punished. Even the president is not independent. As soon as he misused his power, drag him, "Come out." What to speak of you.

Hari-śauri: That's like an impersonalist. He doesn't want any individual existence.

Prabhupāda: And he does not agree to be guided by the supreme controller. He does not agree that He is supreme controller. "I am everything." Therefore they are called mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha. He's being controlled. As soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. And he says "I am God." He's becoming old, and he says that "I am God." Why you are becoming old? God is always young.

Rāmeśvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Discuss amongst yourselves. This is the point. We have got a short duration of life, and we declare independence of the laws of nature, laws of God, and do whatever we like, and as a result of our activities, we are obliged to accept a body which is not desirable. Then where is my independence? Why do they think they are independent and act independently? Is it not foolishness? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: That's described in the third chapter: ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They have to imitate. Otherwise, they cannot struggle. Just like they have made the 747 airship. But the shape is like a bird. You cannot make other shape. That you cannot do. If you make the shape of the 747 airplane like a man, it will finish. So you have to take knowledge from God's creation. You cannot create independently. That is not possible. Just like ships and boats, they are shaped like fish, the same shape; otherwise, you cannot run on water. That is not possible. The original design is made by God, and you have to follow.

Gopavṛndapāla: We told you yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about the hang-gliders? They hang on wings and then they glide down from the cliffs like birds. To make the gliders they had to study the birds' movements for many, many years just to get the right shape for the wings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, Jadurāṇī, how are you?

Jadurāṇī: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: After all, imitation is imitation. Sometimes it is perfect imitation.... Perfect cannot be. But as far as possible. But imitation is there. And the material life is imitation. Because material life means we want to imitate God. That is material life. God is all-powerful; we want to become all-powerful. That is material life. And the struggle for existence. Because we cannot become God, it is impossible, but artificially, they are trying to become God. And that is struggle for existence. So material life means imitation. Everyone is struggling to become God. Even when one is so-called liberated, self-realized, just like the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also writing "Self, my own self," but "I am independent." That is the material disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He's always thinking that "I am independent," which he's not. He's completely under the laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), but he's thinking "I'm independent." That is foolishness. They'll not accept knowledge given by God; they'll manufacture knowledge. That is material disease. And that knowledge is also uncertain. One stalwart man of knowledge is speaking, "I think, I believe," and another stalwart is saying, "No, no, I think, I believe." What is the meaning of this "I think, I believe"? We say "You are all rascals. Whatever you believe, whatever you think, they are all rascaldom." That's all. This is our decision. There are many persons, they are simply saying, "I think, I believe," and we say, "You all people who are thinking independently, believing independently, you are all rascals." That's all. So far our position is concerned, we never say "I think." Whatever we say, we support it immediately by some quotation of the Vedic literature. That is our process. So this morning I was talking with Hari-śauri that our test is this: that because it is written in the Bhagavad-gītā that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15), so anyone who is not surrendering to God, he's thinking independently, so he is either miscreant, a rascal, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, all knowledge taken by māyā, in these groups. Our test is very simple. As soon as we see somebody is not thinking as God thinks, as Kṛṣṇa thinks, we take him in either of these groups. That is our test. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ—we see, practically, they do not speak or they do not think as Kṛṣṇa says, but he's thinking independently. Therefore he is mūḍha. His thinking is imperfect, so therefore, he's mūḍha. And because his thinking is imperfect, another mūḍha comes, he says that "I think like this." This is their controversy. So many independent thinking philosophers have spoiled the broth. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Real knowledge is lacking. Hmm? Anyone, any questions? Yes? Just attend to the question.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Arnold Weiss: As I understand it, since God is omnipresent, omnipotent, all-knowledgeable and all-remembering, then He is in a position where He can know what our choices are going to be, and what is going to happen with us in the future.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tathā kuru. That independence you have got. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Not ocean.

Makhanlāl: Not ocean, no.

Hari-śauri: That's just the hills in the background.

Prabhupāda: I think this farm organization will not be liked by the government.

Hari-śauri: Because of the self-sufficiency? Once they know that we can live independently, they won't like it.

Mādhavānanda: They don't like it already. They are attacking in New Vrindaban, publicity saying that this is just a hippie farm and this and that. They don't like.... It is the state. They see that we are living independently of the entire society. They don't like that. They want everyone to be following their way of society.

Prabhupāda: Why not our way of? If you want to enforce your way of life, why not I enforce my way of life? Then where is my independence? You cannot enforce your way of life. This is standard life.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: And we too. We have always responded to those who have a need for food or clothing or shelter. This comes to us every day, too.

Kern: But to make a person ask is not the right kind of society. Shouldn't, if a person be the first-class citizen and therefore independent and therefore seek his own so that he could serve God by his own intelligence and his independence.... There's no virtue to be giving; it's more of a virtue to receive.

Jayādvaita: He's suggesting that because we are requiring that a person come to us for food, that somehow this is interfering with his independence.

Prabhupāda: Where is that independence? With his family he can come and take food. What is wrong there? We say that we should not..., we are not simply supplying food. Anyone who is coming, he is getting spiritual education. Not that it is a free hotel. No. It is not that. We give them spiritual education. You come here, you take your shelter, you take your food and learn how to be first-class man. That is our program. Don't be implicated in sinful activities. Be God conscious and live here with us comfortably, take your food. We have got this nice palace.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything is resting in Me. I am present all over the universe, impersonally. I can't be seen. Everything is resting on Me. At the same time, I'm outside of everything. I'm independent." He maintains His personality.

Prabhupāda: Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. "I'm not there." So this is conception of God. Nothing can exist without God. But that does not mean everything is God. We have to understand this philosophy.

Indian man: I just want to ask..., Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhu, Bhaktisiddhānta your spiritual master. How you spent the days, your young age, with Bhaktisiddhānta?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: Yes. Bhaktisiddhānta, your spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Young age? I was not with him. I was householder. But I used to meet with him. I was following his instructions. (break) ...valley? (indistinct) valley? No.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). They are thinking, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is also human being like me. Why shall I surrender to Him?" They are mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Then remain a rascal. What can be done? We have got little independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got little independence, so we can refuse. Although Kṛṣṇa canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), we can refuse: "Why shall I surrender to You?" That is our misfortune. But if you agree, you get immediate result. Therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. To agree, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Because we have got so many nasty, dirty things within our heart, we cannot agree. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then we become cleansed in heart, and then agree. Those who are not agreeing, for them it is recommended, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir... (CC Adi 17.21). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is not different, by association of Kṛṣṇa you become purified. Then you understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). You become the greatest mahātmā: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is everything." Then you surrender. You have to surrender-today or tomorrow or many millions of births after. You have to do that. Otherwise, you'll be troubled by the laws of material nature.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:
Prabhupāda: So we have to come to that point, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is nature's way, pulling by the ear: "Come here, do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This will go on as long as you are not agreeing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no infringement by māyā. (break) (Bengali) You understand Bengali? So the process is going on by the laws of nature to give us different types of trouble. The main trouble is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). It will go on unless we surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Better surrender in this life and be perfect; then things are all right. And what is the benefit of our so-called independence? If we declare that we are independent of the laws of nature, is it possible? Is it possible? Then where is your independence? Why you are declaring falsely independence? If you declare yourself independent of God, then you become dependent on māyā. Just like the criminals. They don't care for the laws of the government. They become under the laws of the prison house, that's all. There is no question of independence. Either you remain free or in the prison house, you are under the laws of government. So why falsely declaring independent and don't care for the government? Outlaws. That is called māyā-false prestige which is not possible.
Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: God helps those who help themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't bring slogans now. Now answer this question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People are falsely thinking themselves to be independent of God.

Prabhupāda: No, what is his question, try to understand first of all. The question is intelligent.

Hari-śauri: Actually, it's not a fact that by relying on science one can solve one's problems when you are dealing with...

Prabhupāda: No, what they have solved? What they have solved first of all.

Hari-śauri: They haven't solved anything.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just like, say here's a field, and it's full of wood, so a farmer comes and he cuts down the trees and then he plants grain, and then it comes up as wheat. So he'll say, "Well, God did not do it; I did it." So his proposal is that under such circumstances how is the idea of God practical?

Prabhupāda: So then practical is if God would not have given you this land, then where is scheme of tilling it? Can you till in the sky, in the air? Who has given you the land, hmm? You are very practical, but where you get the...? Can you manufacture this land? Can you? Then God comes, immediately. Where you get this water? Can you manufacture water? Where you get this air? Can you manufacture? Where you get this fire? Everything, there is God.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, you and me, but we are talking of government laws. Whether you'll be punished, I'll be punished, that is different thing. Anyone will be punished. There is no question, "I" and "you." It is not that I am very favorite and you are not favorite. Anyone who will violate the government's laws will be punished. Who can deny it? It is not the question of "I" and "you." Anyone. How you can become independent of the laws? That is not possible. You have to accept God.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Christians say that God is very merciful.

Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful. Otherwise, how He's supplying this... In the morning if a fog, so God mercifully has asked sun, "Now give them some sunlight." So we are enjoying. He is merciful. When there is sunshine you see the sinful man and the pious man, both enjoy. That is His mercy. When he bestows His mercy, it is for all of them, either you are sinner or you are pious. That is God's mercy. Just like the cloud when it pours water, it does not make any discrimination. On the sea, there is also rainfall; on the rocks also, there is rainfall, where there is no necessity of rain. Therefore where is necessity of rainfall on rock? What is the use? There is no use. It is simply waste.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.

Kulādri: They are at Govindajī temple. They are at the, where we will build Govindajī, at the main farm, Bahulavana, for Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra, and some at Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana they are kept free to roam around, but at our farm in Bahulavana they have to be in pastures.

Prabhupāda: Last time I saw some cows here.

Kulādri: Yes, this pasture.

Prabhupāda: Still there?

Kulādri: No.

Devotee (4): This pasture is through now, is it not? For a while. This pasture is through for a while, it must grow back. They are on another pasture.

Kulādri: Today we had three calves born, all female heifers.

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or viṣiṣṭādvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in quality. But god is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are different. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. Otherwise this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel of God. Sanātana. What is that verse? Find out. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). Fifteenth chapter.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Thinking themselves all in all, not caring for any authority or scripture, the demoniac sometimes perform so-called religious or sacrificial rites. And since they do not believe in authority, they are very impudent. This is due to illusion caused by accumulating some wealth and false prestige. Sometimes such demons take up the role of preacher, mislead the people, and become known as religious reformers or as incarnations of God. They make a show of performing sacrifices and they worship the demigods, or manufacture their own God. Common men advertise them as God and worship them, and by the foolish they are considered advanced in the principles of religion, or in the principles of spiritual knowledge. They take the dress of the renounced order of life and engage in all nonsense in that dress. Actually there are so many restrictions for one who has renounced this world. The demons, however, do not care for such restrictions. They think that whatever path one can create is one's own path; there is no such thing as a standard path one has to follow. The word avidhi-pūrvakam, meaning 'disregard for the rules and regulations,' is especially stressed here. These things are always due to ignorance and illusion." Next verse? Text 18.

ahaṅkāraṁ balaṁ darpaṁ
kāmaṁ krodhaṁ ca saṁśritāḥ
mām ātma-para-deheṣu
pradviṣanto 'bhyasūyakāḥ

Translation: "Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion." Purport? "A demoniac person, being always against God's supremacy, does not like to believe in the scriptures. He is envious of both the scriptures and of the existence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is caused by his so-called prestige and his accumulation of wealth and strength. He does not know that the present life is a preparation for the next life. Not knowing this, he is actually envious of his own self, as well as of others. He commits violence on others' bodies and on his own. He does not care for the supreme control of the Personality of Godhead because he has no knowledge. Being envious of the scriptures and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he puts forward false arguments against the existence of God and refutes the scriptural authority. He thinks himself independent and powerful in every action. He thinks that since no one can equal him in strength, power or in wealth, he can act in any way and no one can stop him. If he has an enemy who might check the advancement of his sensual activities, he makes plans to cut him down by his own power." Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this purport you mention that not knowing that this life is a preparation for the next life, that one actually becomes envious of his own self.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In fact it is called imaginary number. Square root of minus one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness. Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree. And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher. Why varieties of life? What is the scientific explanation? One life, he is prince; one life, he is tree. Why this difference? Is there any explanation? There must be some explanation. It is also life, it is also life. Why one life has got this prince body, another this tree body? Kāraṇam..., Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The cause is association of different types of material modes of nature.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: "After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare." Purport. "The living entity, while executing devotional service or transcendental rituals after many, many births may actually become situated in transcendental pure knowledge that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate goal of spiritual realization. In the beginning of spiritual realization, while one is trying to give up one's attachment to materialism, there is some leaning towards impersonalism. But when one is further advanced he can understand that there are activities in the spiritual life and that these activities constitute devotional service. Realizing this, he becomes attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders to Him. At such a time one can understand that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's mercy is everything, that He is the cause of all causes, and that this material manifestation is not independent from Him. He realizes the material world to be a perverted reflection of spiritual variegatedness and realizes that in everything there is a relationship with the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Thus he thinks of everything in relation to Vāsudeva, or Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Such a universal vision of Vāsudeva precipitates one's full surrender to the Supreme Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa as the highest goal. Such surrendered great souls are very rare. This verse is very nicely explained in the Third Chapter of Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad: 'In this body there are power of speaking, of seeing, of hearing, of mental activities, etc. But these are not important if not related to the Supreme Lord. And because Vasudeva is all-pervading and everything is Vasudeva, the devotee surrenders in full knowledge.' "

Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva, surrenders. That's nice. All right, continue tomorrow. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Devotees: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: ...celebration, independence from our point of view?

Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...

Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.

Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?

Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is the question of independence? Whatever you do not want, it is being forced upon you. So where is your independence? Nobody wants any miseries. So everyone is miserable condition. Struggle for existence means to get out of miserable condition. So where is the independence? Now there is mist. How you can say you are independent? You cannot drive this mist, this fog. Unless sun rises, it cannot be cleared. So where is your independence? There may be so many accidents. Actually, it so happens. But you do not want. But here is an unfortunate. So where is your independence? It is not under your control. If the sun rises, then it can be dissipated. Otherwise, there is no question. Poor thoughts. What is here, this park?

Vṛṣākapi: That's a private community.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Perhaps everyone is hopeful that the sun will rise for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sun is not your father's servant. He may not. It is not under your control. That is the point. You may think so.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Hope against hope. Independence means fully under your control. Whatever you like, you can do. Where is that independence?

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Foolishly thinking that "I am independent." Has anyone anything to say?

Vṛṣākapi: I was thinking that they are talking of independence, but they cannot even become independent of old age and disease. Their body, they try to control things, but their own body is out of control.

Prabhupāda: So many things.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One may say that if there's no independence, then where is the question of initiative in the material world, taking initiative?

Prabhupāda: Initiative? What is that question? Initiative I understand, but do you think that by taking initiative of independence you become independent, like this, by dancing and fireworks, you become independent? This is initiative, dancing like dogs, (sings) "We are independent, we are independent." (laughter) Does it have any meaning? Dance like a dog, that's all.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everything is conditioned. Therefore it is called conditioned life. There is no question of independence. That is foolishness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that they are not independent, completely under the control of laws of material nature, and still they are thinking independent.

Rūpānuga: It is like a prisoner in the prison house thinking he has some freedom.

Prabhupāda: That freedom is danda jane raja jana nadi secu bhau.(?) Drowning the man in the water and, "Now you have independence, so breathe." (laughter) So he breathes in, "Ah! Ah!" "All right, you are now a little relieved, all right, again. Again become drown." "Oh! Save me, save me, save me, save me." "All right," take out, "now breathe, independently." This is independence. Danda jane raj jana nadi secu bhai.(?) The rascal does not know "I am breathing independent, but at any moment I can be drowned again." Very correct example, danda jane raja jana nadi secu bhai.(?) No independence. Independence is only there when you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You surrender your all independence to Kṛṣṇa. Then there is. "Kṛṣṇa, I have foolishly acted as independent, so many lives. Now I surrender all my independence at Your lotus feet. If You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can...," that is independence. Otherwise, there is no independence. All foolishness. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. By false egotism, he's thinking that "I am independent."

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the value of it? They are enjoying their senses.

Prabhupāda: Now dog dancing. What is that song? Dog dancing? I sang that song?

Hari-śauri: (sings) "We are independent, we are independent."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) That is the spirit of patriotism.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you can say any name, any style or any trademark. Where is the independence? That is the question.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda blessed yesterday around the Capitol. There were so many people, and they seemed like they liked...

Prabhupāda: So many people, there are so many earthworms also. Ants also, gathered together. Does it mean they are independent? Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the earthworms? They heap up earth and disappear. So you are, if you take it in that way, that big, big buildings, just like earthworms gathering up earth and then disappears. Actually that is the... Like the worms, we gather together and become a nation and apply all our energy, heaps of buildings, then finished. We go somewhere, you go somewhere. And who knows what he's going to be next life? Everything is going like that, family, community, national. Like the same earthworm, they gather so much huge dipi..., what is called dipi (?)in English?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some sort of manure.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is.

Prabhupāda: Just like electricity. Electricity, when it is connected with the machine, it works. The machine is complicated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it could be said that the machine is actually independent of the electricity.

Prabhupāda: No, how it is independent? Without electricity it has no value.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It has no value, but it's still existing.

Prabhupāda: Existing, that is valuable?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But machine is touched by a person. So that makes a...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is an example, that here is electricity, power, and here is machine. The machine is complicated. The electricity is not complicated.

Hari-śauri: But if there's no electricity, then there's no need for a complicated machine.

Prabhupāda: You can see it is complicated. Even a typewriter machine, it is complicated.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no complexity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One point, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that matter as it is, it has not even a specific form or pattern as compared with matter associated with life. When matter is associated with life it has specific groups of forms meant for a definite purpose and function. Now this is lacking when matter is left as it is. For example...

Prabhupāda: Yes, matter is utilized for the purpose of spirit soul. Otherwise matter has no independent existence. The whole thing is matter, but it is formed according to the desire of the spirit.

Hari-śauri: So if matter is inferior to the spirit soul, then isn't it correct to say that the spirit soul is more complex or sophisticated than matter? If matter is inferior?

Prabhupāda: Spirit soul is living. Naturally he has got desires. That is not complexity. That is a symptom of life.

Rūpānuga: Matter has no desire.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So matter seems, we say, more complex, but still is inferior.

Prabhupāda: It is made complex to serve some purpose.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Fifth Chapter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "This chapter is chiefly devoted to describing the essential nature and glories of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the absolute Personality of Godhead, and His first expansion in a form for pastimes is Śrī Balarāma. Beyond the limitation of this material world is the spiritual sky, paravyoma, which has many spiritual planets, the supreme of which is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Kṛṣṇaloka, the abode of Kṛṣṇa, has three divisions, which are known as Dvārakā, Mathurā and Gokula. In that abode the Personality of Godhead expands Himself into four plenary portions-Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, Pradyumna (the transcendental Cupid) and Aniruddha. They are known as the original quadruple forms. In Kṛṣṇaloka is a transcendental place known as Śvetadvīpa, or Vṛndāvana. Below Kṛṣṇaloka, in the spiritual sky, are the Vaikuṇṭha planets. On each Vaikuṇṭha planet a four-handed Nārāyaṇa, expanded from the first quadruple manifestation, is present. The Personality of Godhead known as Śrī Balarāma in Kṛṣṇaloka is the original Saṅkarṣaṇa (attracting Deity), and from this Saṅkarṣaṇa expands another Saṅkarṣaṇa, called Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa, who resides in one of the Vaikuṇṭha planets. By His internal potency, Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa maintains the transcendental existence of all the planets in the spiritual sky, where all the living beings are eternally liberated souls. The influence of the material energy is conspicuous there by its absence. On those planets the second quadruple manifestation is present. Outside of the Vaikuṇṭha planets is the impersonal manifestation of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, which is known as the Brahmaloka. On the other side of the Brahmaloka is the spiritual kāraṇa-samudra, or Causal Ocean. The material energy exists on the other side of the Causal Ocean, without touching it. In the Causal Ocean is Mahā-Viṣṇu, the original puruṣa expansion from Saṅkarṣaṇa. This Mahā-Viṣṇu places His glance over the material energy, and by a reflection of His transcendental body He amalgamates Himself within the material elements. As the source of the material elements, the material energy is known as pradhāna, and as the source of the manifestations of the material energy it is known as māyā. But material nature is inert in that she has no independent power to do anything. She is empowered to make the cosmic manifestation by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore the material energy is not the original cause of the material manifestation. Rather, the transcendental glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu over material nature produces that cosmic manifestation."

Prabhupāda: So you try to understand this, everything will be clear. Material energy has no power to create. It is this glance that makes material energy energetic. Chemical combination, that alkaline and acid, they create some agitation, effervescence, but it is done by the chemist. He mixes the two liquids and there is effervescence. It is like that. So you read that chapter carefully. You'll solve your problem.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace. If śūdras are allowed to rule over, what they know? Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, why is the material world made on the level of a jailhouse? It's made on the level of a jailhouse, that, I've been told, the attitude of a jail instead of the attitude.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because there will be so many criminals. Therefore government has to construct a jailhouse. It is government's not desire. It is expensive, unnecessary. But because there are rascals who will become criminal, the government has jailhouse. So one who wants to remain independent of Kṛṣṇa, for them there is material world, "All right, you remain here."

Vipina: We also say that Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling the desires of every living entity. So if we want to enjoy independent of Kṛṣṇa, why doesn't He let us really enjoy independent of Him?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is māyā it is called. You are not enjoyer, you are servant. Because you are willing to become enjoyer, you suffer, that's all. You are not enjoyer.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligent.

Hari-śauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.

Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not have any financial help, but His movement is going on. It does not depend on a..., on financial. It is independent. Spiritual movement is independent of any material help. That is spiritual movement.

Interviewer: But how would you be able to carry out your educational or book publishing program if you did not have a financial backing?

Prabhupāda: How I am managing now?

Interviewer: But now you are doing well financially.

Prabhupāda: You are stressing on financial help but my reply is that this movement does not depend on financial help. That is the reply.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So you try to...

Interviewer: Are they working farms, producing farms?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many farms in your country. Just now I am coming from New Vrindāban in West Virginia. They are living. If you go sometime, you can see how independently they are living. And there are other farms, New Orleans, and just now we are going tomorrow...

Rāmeśvara: Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. So we get enough milk, enough food grains, enough fruits. So there is no economic problem. Our purpose is to save time from unnecessary necessities of life, from unnecessary necessities of life, to save time and utilize the time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so far the body is concerned, as much as it is required take and maintain the body. That's all.

Interviewer: Your devotees' health is looked after, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:
Prabhupāda: So this institution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have started. Now we have opened this center. I am very glad that you are coming here, but study the science of Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain blind. The science of Kṛṣṇa means science of God. The human life is meant for understanding the science of God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. "This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth—Brahman." That Brahman, Para-brahman, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, when Arjuna studied Bhagavad-gītā, his conclusion was... He addressed immediately, "Kṛṣṇa," paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Bhavān. "Yourself..." So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material condition life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature.
Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: So we are free to choose in so far as what we believe important. I mean religion is important, because if we believe in God and live a good life...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of believe. Don't bring this question-belief. It is law. Just like there is government, you believe or not believe, who cares for you? That is government. Similarly, you believe or not believe, there is God. If you don't believe in God and do independently whatever you like, then you'll be punishable.

Mike Robinson: I see. Does it matter what religion you believe? Does it matter which religion you believe? Would it matter if one was a devotee of Hare Kṛṣṇa...?

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of which religion, it is a question of science, that what is your position. You are a spiritual being, you are under the laws of nature. So you may believe.... Just like you may believe in Christian religion, I may believe in Hindu religion, but it does not mean that a Christian child is not going to become a boy. We are talking of the science, that the child become a boy. This is natural law. It is not that because you are Christian you are becoming a boy, or because I am Hindu I am becoming.... Everyone becomes a boy. So similarly, the laws of nature is applicable to everyone. You believe this religion or that religion, it doesn't matter.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Provided you believe in that one God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One God, one God's law, nature's law, and we are all under that nature's law, under the control of the Supreme. So if we think that we are free, we can do independently, that is our foolishness.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you explain to me then what difference it makes being a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means one who is serious to understand this science-he's member of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. There's no question of he belongs to some group, anyone, student. Just like in a college, students can be admitted. He may be a Christian, he may be a Hindu, he may be Muhammadan, it doesn't matter. It is a science to understand.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here I also get sick. I go there I also get sick. (laughs) You seem to be much better now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, little better. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.

Bhagavān: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Cows, so many things. Free from all anxieties, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Life is meant for simply chanting. This should be the motto. But because we have got this body, we have to maintain it. That much. Otherwise, we have no ambition to become a very big man in this material world, enjoy it. This is all false, useless. He'll become a big man, and one day death comes and kicks him out. So these are all false attempts. It has no meaning. The meaningful life is, so long we live, become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. And tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. Give facility to the people. Here is very nice arrangement. Now make plan how to utilize. You have got enough land. You can utilize for supplying the necessities of life.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Lock this door, otherwise if you come there, it will be disturbance.

Harikeśa: Nandarāṇī's making khicuḍi with the peas and okra.

Prabhupāda: Okra could be done separately. Let her do independently.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She's doing both. She first mixed it, now she's also making separate.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Anyway, let her do it. She was cooking for me in Māyāpur.

Harikeśa: I heard you like it very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you become eager to know God, God will reveal Himself. From our side, we should not be stereotyped. People in different sects of religion, they say, "We believe." But they do not want to go further than they believe. That is very difficult. You must be dynamic and progressive, then you will have. I have talked with many sects, especially Christian priests. They will say "We believe," no more further than that. So knowledge is not like that. Knowledge must be progressive. "We believe there is no soul of the animal"—bas, fixed up. You believe like a rascal, so I shall remain rascal. What is this? We should be progressive. That is wanted. Of course, in the lower stage one may have a type of belief, but if you want more clearly, you must be progressive. According to Vedānta system, the life, human life, is only for inquiring about Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. We shall talk again.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he'll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence. Therefore it is (indistinct). Otherwise, he'll remain like an ass perpetually dependent on the washerman. Mūḍha. We are thinking that without this body we cannot live. No. That is not the fact. We can live independently of this body. But our present position, because we have no spiritual culture, we are thinking that we are dependent on this body. Actually, we are not dependent. That will be revealed the more you advance in spiritual culture. What was his question before?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Is your question satisfied?

Peter: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is that verse?

Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?

Peter: Suffering.

Prabhupāda: Suffering, very good. If you remain dependent on this material body, then suffering. So why don't you become independent? That is the next question.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Attachment maybe, that is not a very important thing. But if there is a process, how to become independent of this body, why should we not take it? That is intelligence. Just like a man suffering from illness, attachment or no attachment, he's now suffering from that illness, but he has put himself into hospitalization under some physician. So that process will cure him and he'll not suffer from this disease. That is the hope. Or that is the fact. Similarly, circumstantially, we may be dependent on this material body, but if there is a process how we can become independent of the body, why should we not take it? The same example, if a man is diseased, he's captured by the disease. Attachment or no attachment, it is difficult. But he must put himself under treatment so that he can be detached from it. That is intelligence. I am caught by the disease. So let me suffer without any treatment. That is not intelligence. I must take the process of treatment by which... That is explained there, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this treatment so that after giving up this body you'll not have any more material body. And as soon as you become free from this material body, there is no suffering. But as soon as you get a material body, you must suffer. So if there is way and means to avoid this material body, and remain in our original spiritual body, why should we not take it. That is intelligence. That is a very simple thing.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So if there is some process to become independent of this material body, why should we not accept? What is the objection? If somebody's suffering from some disease and if there is process of curing it, why one should not take it? (long pause) So your friend's questions and answers are not coming?

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied. (long pause)

Atreya Ṛṣi: The young man who just came is Terry Graham. He'd come to see you two years ago when you were here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He's a journalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param
(BG 18.54)

Unless we come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of justice, morality, peace. It is not possible. They may attempt in different ways, by their mental speculative process, but actually it will never come to be true. They are all trying: the scientists, philosophers, politicians, religionists, to make some adjustment, but that is not possible. We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That's not possible. (If) you have come to the spiritual platform independent of this material body, then there will be everything solved. On every surface (?). They can waste their time for making an adjustment, but that is not possible. I have given some example, that everyone is trying to become free from the material disturbances, but it is not possible. Nobody is free from material disturbance. That is not possible. So if you actually want freedom from material disturbances, you have to come to the spiritual platform and cultivate spiritual knowledge and be fixed up. Then your life is successful.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is more or less. Sometimes you have got 110 degree temperature and sometimes you have got seventy degree temperature. But the disturbance is there. Either 110 degree or seventy degree or thirty degree, you'll have to feel the disturbance. You cannot stop it. So either you take the cause this age, or this country, or this atmosphere, we can say so, but it will continue. That is the nature of the material world. If you think that 110 degree is too much, let it be one hundred degree... That you concoct like that. In fact any such temperature will disturb you. That's a fact. You can think that if it would have been 100 degree, it would have been very nice, but that's not the fact. Either 110 degree or 100 degree, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he's intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). One has to understand this fundamentally, that so long I'll get this material body, I'll have to suffer. Maybe differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Not to make a distinction of different degrees. Different degrees—one position, one man's food, another man's poison. The same degree. If you think that it is nice, another man will suffer. So suffering will continue. That is not possible (indistinct). It is the nature of material world, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This material world is full of miseries. That they do not understand. Miserable condition they are accepting as pleasing. That is called ignorant.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is not very good. But they have got some orders.

Nava-yauvana: So when we preach to people we should first convince them that God is the supreme controller, the supreme proprietor. Then further understanding can come.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a supreme controller. That you have to admit. You are not independent. Why they foolishly think independent? What is the reason they're foolishly thinking independent? What is their independence? Nobody is independent. So why they are foolishly thinking independent? You first challenge them. They are not independent. Are you independent? So why they foolishly declare independent?

Jñānagamya: They are ignorant.

Prabhupāda: So what is the position then? They are in ignorance, and they are leading the society as scientist, philosopher, politician. That is misleading. They cannot go even freely in the so-called moon planet excursion or Mars. Still, they are declaring independence. What is their independence?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Rascal.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: If you have no needs. Independence means that you have no need for anything else.

Prabhupāda: No, even if you have needs, if you can supply need, your needs you can supply yourself, then you can call independent. But that is not the position. You cannot get the supplies independently. Why you are expecting cloud? Because if there is rainfall, there will be vegetation. Then you will be able to grow food. So you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent. Independently you cannot create cloud. So where is your independence? Every step, you are dependent. Why do you declare independence? What is this foolishness? What is their answer?

Hari-śauri: Well, they think they have some independence because they have to make so many decisions about how to live and how to operate society.

Prabhupāda: He'll answer for them. Law of gravitation.(?) (talking about child?) What is your independence? Are you independent?

Atreya Ṛṣi: There are all sorts of rascals, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One kind of rascal is the mūḍha kind, who like to enjoy. He thinks he is independent.

Prabhupāda: That is also dependent.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: But we do not believe in God and still...

Prabhupāda: Do or do not believe in God, but you are not independent, that's a fact. You don't believe or do believe, it doesn't matter. But you are dependent. You are not independent.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, we are dependent on nature.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you cannot say that you are independent. That is the point that we are discussing. You call nature, I call God, it doesn't make any difference. But you are dependent on something else. You can call it nature, but nature is also God's nature. Anyway, accept nature. So,

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

So take it, nature, nature is acting in her own way. So nature is not your father's servant. So how do you declare independent, that I am everything? Even if you accept nature, you are not independent. That's a fact.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But I am not independent, I am more dependent on my intelligence.

Prabhupāda: What intelligence? If dependent, what is the meaning of intelligence?

Dayānanda: Yes, I'm depending on my own intelligence to utilize everything for advancement, for my comfort and my strength and food.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything, if there is no everything, then what is the meaning of intelligence?

Dayānanda: But I may develop more intelligence to create what I lack.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You have got independence to misuse your independence. That independence you have got. You have been given intelligence. Now you have got, because you have got intelligence, little independence, you can misuse that. Just like you are all my secretaries. So I give you some independence. You can misuse it. So that misuse is wrong. Then you'll become unhappy. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Says. He doesn't force you—you must do it. You do it. That means independence. Now it is your choice. You have got independence of misusing it. So independence is a quality inherent in living beings, because he's part and parcel of God. The quality of the father is inherited by the son, even physically. Similarly, you have..., God is fully independent, you have got little touch of independence. Now that independence is properly utilized when you carry out the order of God. That is proper. Ordinarily, every country is independent. Does it mean that he is cent percent independent? No. Then why there is police department? Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. We have got little independence. But if we misuse it, then we shall be punished. So there is no question of independence. Independence, little. That is interdependence, not independence. Why they declare independence? That is their foolishness.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: It's always very relative.

Prabhupāda: Not absolute. Absolute independence, God. Even if you have got little independence it is relative, under condition.

Nandarāṇī: And the purpose of śāstra is to direct this minute independence so that it is not misused?

Prabhupāda: Just like in your state, you are independent citizen, but you must be guided by the laws. If you violate the laws, immediately you will be prisoner. The śāstra is like that, law. You have little independence, you can utilize it fully, under the laws. As soon as you violate, you are immediately put into suffering. Because you are a citizen of an independent country, America, doesn't mean that you can do whatever you like. But you do according to the laws of the country.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That tendency is here. Because we are very small fragment of spiritual identity, that tendency is there. The example is given, just like fire and spark of the fire. The fire and the spark, the spark is very small, but it is fire. And the big fire, together they look very beautiful. With the fire, when the sparks come-sput sput—so many sparks, it looks very beautiful. But the sparks sometimes fall down from the original fire. Then it is no more fire. It is fire, but it's extinguished. The illumination is over. So we are small particles of God. God is big fire; we are small particles of God. So we are playing with the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down. That chance is there. The big fire does not fall. The big fire is always blazing. But the small fire, although it is possessing the same quality of fire, it may fall down. So we are small particle, very, very small, atomic portion God. Therefore we have got the tendency to be separated from the big fire, and then we begin our material body. Just like another crude example, just like a very rich man's son, he's enjoying life. Sometimes he thinks, "Why not independently live? Why dependent of father?" He goes out and he becomes a hippie. There are many examples. He was living very comfortably, rich man's son, but he left the house of his father and became a hippie. There are many practical examples. Why does he do so? I have seen in Allahabad one big lawyer, very famous lawyer, Ferolal Bannerji. He had two sons. One son became a good barrister like him, and another son became a car-wala, driving a car. The reason was that this son, a car-wala, he fell in love with a low-class woman, and he preferred to remain a car-wala.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Kaurava, oh. Yes. No, not that they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they may be. That's all right. My business is to execute what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. That is bhakti.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa
sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
(CC Madhya 19.170)

Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu (Brs. 1.1.11). We have to act to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. We cannot make our choice, that "This is good, this is bad." Whatever Kṛṣṇa says is all right. Then it is bhakti. Arjuna proposed that "Kṛṣṇa, why shall I fight with my brothers? After all, they are my brothers. They are enjoying the kingdom. Let them enjoy. I shall better live by begging. Why shall I fight with them?" It is a very good proposal, very gentlemanlike. But Kṛṣṇa said, "No, you must fight." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam—"You're talking like anārya. Fight." This is the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. And when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants it," he said, "Yes"—kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes." So we cannot discriminate what is good or bad. We have to act according to the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. But you cannot do independently also. When Kṛṣṇa orders, you do it. And Kṛṣṇa will order when you are faithful servant. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?

Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.

Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: That is fraud. He's thinking independently, he's not independent.

Harikeśa:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities which are in actuality carried out by nature." Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity? Dayānanda: Well, if God is, as you say... Prabhupāda: God is the father.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Kṛṣṇa says... The kāma also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Whatever you have got, that is from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). You cannot say the kāma is independent. That's not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. (break) Ahaṁ sarvasya, sarvasya, you'll have take kāma also, everything, everything is coming. As Kṛṣṇa says everything, kāma is also coming from Him. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). It cannot be independent. The kāma-haitukam, the man and woman, lusty desire, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam. Wherefrom this kāma came? Kṛṣṇa answers that. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. What is that? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is situated in both the boy's and the girl's heart. So Kṛṣṇa is giving, "You wanted to enjoy, now here is opportunity, you take it." Then Kṛṣṇa becomes cause. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam. "You wanted, you have got, here is. You wanted a young boy-here is." Mattaḥ smṛtiḥ. Therefore He's sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: But unless one is getting Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he is forced to go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā is there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). You cannot do anything without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there, māyā is there. They'll take care. Kṛṣṇa's agent māyā will take care of you. You have to be taken care, either by māyā or by Kṛṣṇa. If you agree to be taken care by Kṛṣṇa, then you are happy. And if you don't agree, you will be taken care by māyā. You go on suffering. In either case you are not independent. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). That verse is very important-yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out that verse. It is the last part. Yesterday you found.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a swami, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That's all. I'm feeling nice here. There is open air and grass.

Nava-yauvana: These rascals don't understand that lust also has its laws and they are under these strict laws of lust. They are thinking they are independent.

Prabhupāda: No, lust... Suppose lust is... Then lust between man and woman. Then this lust will cause.

Harikeśa: That's a law in physics also, "opposites attract."

Prabhupāda: Yes, and who made the opposites?

Harikeśa: No, that's just the natural arrangement of things.

Prabhupāda: What is natural?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Who arranged?

Harikeśa: That's the complete. No, you see that's complete. Two opposite things, they're like two halves of a circle.

Prabhupāda: No, why, who has made this?

Harikeśa: But it's just eternally there. It's just, that's just the complete arrangement, it's everything.

Prabhupāda: But eternally there, but why the body of woman is attracted to man and the man's body is attracted? Who has made it? Between man and man there is no such attraction.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some devotees, especially in Vṛndāvana, who will always try to run to Hardwar, Jagannātha Purī, always parikrama of holy places.

Prabhupāda: It is good to go to holy places.

Acyutānanda: They go independently.

Yaśomatīnandana: Unauthorized.

Acyutānanda: They go more to avoid service than to become purified.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But there's no harm if they just...

Prabhupāda: You see you can become independent, nobody can check you. Everyone is independent. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). But one who wants to be regulated, he has to surrender. That is voluntary. Otherwise, everyone is free to do whatever he likes. And those who are surrendered souls, they will wait for the instruction of guru and do accordingly. That is the proper... guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete kariyā aikya āra nā kariha **. That is wanted. Otherwise, everyone can remain independent. All living beings are independent. Even if I say that you do not do it, you are independent, you can do it. Even Kṛṣṇa gives independence to Arjuna. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. "I have told you everything. Now you do whatever you like." So that depends on the candidate. Everyone is free to do anything, but if he's actually serious then he has to do guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete āra nā kariha **.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Interviewer (4): (indistinct)-śakti cult, they also give you the same...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā
icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.44)

Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under My supervision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) ...but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Make... Find out such means. Otherwise... Alexander the Great, having so many kingdom, and as soon as he goes away, it is finished.

Jayapatākā: Also, if you wrote a letter to Brahmananda Reddy and that Mr. Mehta, the deputy or whatever, minister, regarding these questions coming in the Rāja-sabhā about Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana, "Actually these two centers are my ... I am founder-ācārya of these centers, and the people working there are not independent of me. I have asked them to come for assisting me." Then, if a letter like that is written to them and send me one copy, that will help immigration also, I think.

Gargamuni: Also another investigation, we're always asked, "Where is your headquarters?"

Jayapatākā: And then "Our headquarters is in India."

Gargamuni: It must be always stated, "Our headquarters are India." If we say "foreign," that means we are controlled by foreign. We must publish everywhere that our head...

Prabhupāda: No, we have mentioned headquarters Bombay?

Jayapatākā: We just said offices.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Jayapatākā: Actual facts is... That would help, if such a letter was given. Then on the basis of that, we cal also go and preach or talk, or we can show that to the local people that "this is..." Because they keep thinking that we are coming on our own. Because you are outside traveling, they see us only, and they think we are independent.

Prabhupāda: No, in every letter heading there is my name, "Ācārya, Founder-ācārya."

Gargamuni: That is their stupidity. But if some, that one direct letter, short letter, then if we have a copy I'll show that to the CID there, that "This, Prabhupāda has written to the Minister of Home. This is in answer to your question."

Prabhupāda: Then take that copy.

Gargamuni: I'll make one draft.

Prabhupāda: No, I have written already letter?

Jayapatākā: You're written already letter?

Prabhupāda: To the Home Minister?

Gargamuni: I didn't get. Has he written a letter to the Home Minister?

Prabhupāda: No, Home Minister has given one letter.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So nature's law is there, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are not independent. We are dependent under the laws of material nature. So we should properly utilize this human form of life, and government or king means to guide the citizens how to make progress of life. That is the duty of the government. They should be given all chances to make progress. Formerly, all the kings were responsible for the progress of the citizens, progress of life. The same principle should be followed. That is the statement of the śāstra. The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. To maintain the body, just like we require the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs, similarly, we must maintain the brain of the society, the brāhmaṇa; and the arms of the society, kṣatriyas; and the belly of the society, the vaiśyas; and the legs of the society, the śūdra. Everything is required. Not that simply brain is required and leg is not required. No, everything is required under proper guidance for the total benefit of the society. So direction is there. That is śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya... If we do not care for the śāstra, whimsically manufacture our own ways of life, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti, it will never be successful. Na sukham. And there will be no happiness. Na parāṁ gatim. Therefore the whole process is yajñārthāt karmaṇa. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Yajña means the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Yajña means yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. After performing yajña, if we enjoy life, then there is no sinful reaction. Otherwise, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13).
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained. A class of brāhmaṇa must be there as ideal to consult with them. Similarly, a class of kṣatriya must be there, a class of vaiśya must be there. This is called varṇāśrama. For the peaceful execution of material life these things are required, division. Just like in your government you have got some different ministerial department. You have introduced, this minister is for this department, this minister... Similarly, the brain department must be there. Without brain, even... Suppose a madman, he has got his hands and legs, but it is useless because the brain is lost. So brain must be there. So this varṇāśrama, revival of varṇāśrama is required. A class of men, brāhmaṇa—sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Āstikyam. In this way, as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of brāhmaṇa, a department of kṣatriya—that education must be given. But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service. Paricarya: he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the śāstra it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, in this age almost everyone is śūdra. So if śūdras are there only, if there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, that society will not prosper very much. If we accept the injunction of the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma (BG 16.23). So this brāhmaṇa, or kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is not by birth. It is by qualification. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa. One must acquire the quality of brāhmaṇa and he must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then he is brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Even in śūdra family, if one is born śūdra, but he has attained the quality of a brāhmaṇa, he must be accepted as brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra injunction.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They'll suffer. They'll suffer. Those who are killing the children, they will be killed. They will enter into the mother's womb and they will be killed. They'll be punished. Tit for tat. That they do not know. This way or that way?

Indian man: This way. This way.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.

Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Start means, just like what is the starting point of a criminal? He wants to violate the laws and starting, criminal. You can stop it immediately and you can start immediately. It depends on you. If you violate the law, you become criminal. If you don't violate, remain in your own position. This is the start. As soon as you defy God and you try to become independent, then the starting is there immediately. And again when you surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Then you stop. So stopping and starting is in your hand. That is karma. It is not that starting is done by somebody else. You start your business. And you stop it. (break)

Indian man: No, but just in the beginning when the universe started...

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning. That beginning is always there. Just like you are a gentleman. You can become immediately criminal. This is in your hand. So you cannot find out the history because at any moment you can start.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Black market.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And one friend of ours told us what they do because all the cars belong to the state, a lot of taxis, the people...

Krishna Modi: The taxis are not independent.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they all belong to the state. But the driver, if he makes extra money, that goes in his pocket and they have tipping also.

Prabhupāda: And they are always anxious to get extra. Buses are not very good. Third-class buses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And a lot of people want foreign exchange there. Like they'll ask...

Krishna Modi: I'm going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You're going to Russia? When?

Krishna Modi: Yes, on 4th of October.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For how long?

Krishna Modi: About fifteen days.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Visit.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So formerly, by simply desire of very exalted person like Lord Śiva and others, they could turn a man into woman, woman into man.

Hari-śauri: I heard a story, Viśvāmitra once he grew people from trees. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Everything is possible by Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. It is called therefore "inconceivable." You, we cannot conceive how it is done. Our intelligence is very little. We cannot conceive. Therefore we say, "Oh, this is all mythology." Because we cannot conceive of it. Whatever we cannot conceive we take it as mythology. Nothing is mythology. Everything is possible. That is inconceivable. But they cannot understand what is inconceivable. Unless it is conceivable by them, they do not accept. That is their foolishness. We can see at night worms or flies so small Just like if you divide one grain of rice into one hundred divisions one division—such a small fly. They are independently walking, flying. Freedom. Now just imagine how their anatomic physiology is manufactured within that small (indistinct) of life. But he's exactly doing everything just like a big fly. How it is doing? Therefore I said in that, my interview.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You know that. Hard struggle. So Kṛṣṇa gave us some facility. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we... sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's line. We should be very honest and live with sādhu, those who are devotees. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvāmīs.

ei chay gosāi yār mui tāro dās
tāṅ-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās
You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahāprabhu...
śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ
sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale
svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ
dadāti sva-padāntikam

(When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?)

That should be our prayer. When Rūpa Gosvāmī, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet. And that is... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi. Tāṅdera means the six Gosvāmīs. Ei chay gosāi yāṅr tāṅr mui dās. I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvāmīs. And we pray to our Guru Mahārāja, rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rūpa Gosvāmī, reject him. Rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta. This is our process.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They can. They'll not accept the process. They can. Everyone. Otherwise why these brahmacārīs? Just to be trained. That's all. By training we can find so many brahmacārīs. Just like by training you have given up so many things. You were accustomed to this illicit sex and meat-eating and... But you have given up. But why? By training. So if we request the government, "Let us open this brahmacārī..." They'll not help. But they'll make the other propaganda. They'll make contraceptive method, and naturally one Hindu widow is trained up not to marry again. Once she got a husband, that's all right. Now you convert your, you divert your attention to Kṛṣṇa. They'll make propaganda. "Why stop her sense gratification? Let her marry again, widow marriage." Why widow marriage? If there is voluntarily giving up begetting any more child, to avoid husband, why the widow marriage bill is introduced? Everything was natural, brahmacārī. The sterilization is already there. That will not be accepted. Widow, she's remaining refrained from. Just like we have now asked our girls not to dress attractively, widow. They should dress not attractively. Because after all, what is this sex enjoyment? It is not very good thing. By outward attraction they attract. Nice sari, nice,—one becomes attracted. Therefore this is psychology, that if the woman does not dress very nicely, she will not be attractive. Unnecessarily attraction she will avoid. But a woman is naturally, her psychology is dress very nicely so that man may be attracted. Because they want shelter. This is the whole psychology. They, although they declare independence, they cannot live independently. That is not possible. Therefore they are by nature accustomed to dress attractively so that one may accept her and give her shelter. This is psychology. Otherwise, why the woman are naturally inclined to dress herself nice. Man does not. This is the psychology. A boy, sixteen years old boy, he does not... He is roughly dressed, he does not... But a sixteen year old girl will never remain roughly. She'll always try to decorate herself very nicely and utilize her youthful beauty for attracting. Why attracting? Because she wants shelter. Therefore it is the duty of the father and mother that she is young girl, she wants shelter, and out of passion, lusty desires, her selection may be wrong. So before she selects out of her own way, let me, it is my duty, I am guardian. Give her some good shelter. This is Hindu process.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Now they bring them up to be independent.

Prabhupāda: It is a question of culture. Culture. She was king's daughter, royal, and married her with a muni, old, rotten. Older than me. All the skin has become slackened. But still she was serving him just like worshipable lord. The age difference is great-grandfather and great-granddaughter. You'll find in Bhāgavatam. Lord Śiva, he could not construct even a house. He was living underneath a tree. And his wife, Durgā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44). She can create a new world, so powerful, Durgā. She's living with her husband underneath a tree. Never claims, "My dear husband, if you cannot, I can make one." There is a story about that. That, "People criticize us. All right, let us have some house." So Lord Śiva, Durgā, both of them capable to do anything. So they constructed a very nice gold house. "Now we shall live." So there is new house entering ceremony. So one Gargamuni was invited as brāhmaṇa. Many other brāhmaṇas. So they began to eat so much... That story I'm now forgetting. Then whatever stock they have finished, when, after eating, when they wanted, "Give us dakṣiṇā." Because after eating there is... So Lord Śiva, where shall I get everything? I have finished." Then they became puzzled what to do. So Lord Śiva said, "All right, you take this house." Again they became underneath a tree. (laughs) "All right, as dakṣiṇā you take this house. Don't bother." Their house entrance ceremony was there. As a result of that ceremony they became again underneath a tree. (About someone else:) What they're doing? (end)

Room Conversation -- September 30, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That man also wanted to kick out after one year. Then we had no place. Then, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, we got this house present. At that time I got fifty thousand dollars. So I advanced them down payment. And it is 225 hundred, thousand. I think they are still paying two thousand. Twelve years. How many years passed?

Hari-śauri: That was in '69?

Prabhupāda: Yes. '68 I got immigration and '69. It is a long history, checkered history. So preaching is independent. If you have got desire, you can preach in any circumstances and Kṛṣṇa will help you. I have practically experienced. I went to your country without any help, without any money. Alone. And gradually things developed. (end side one) ...all foreigners. I did not approach any Indian. I did not approach anyone, but Kṛṣṇa sent friends, gradually developed.

Akṣayānanda: There's a man from Gujarat that wants to see you, Prabhupāda. He saw our center in Chicago.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Get this light. Light. (end)

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (1): This is what we would like to know from... (microphone rattling) ...the learned people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is our duty, provided you want to learn it. But practically they are not interested. That is the pity of the situation. They... Nature's law is there, but they do not care for the nature's law. They are so irresponsible.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Everything is being done by nature's law, and we are strictly under nature's law. Still, we are thinking independent.

Indian man (1): Nature's laws are inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot surpass. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This nature's law is so strict, you cannot disobey.

Indian man (1): We can't bend it. It is un... inevitable, inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes, inexorable. Yes, yes, inexorable.

Indian man (1): And nobody can interfere?

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (1): God alone.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Punishment.

Dr. Kneupper: But he must have done something...

Prabhupāda: You want to enjoy. Can you understand this? Everyone is trying to enjoy. So enjoy independently means that you don't care for... That is the fact. They don't care for God. So because they don't care for God, therefore they are punished: "You take care of your body." And as soon as you care for God, then there is no material body. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. So God, therefore, teaches us how to get out of this body.

Dr. Kneupper: That's the whole idea of mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. Mokṣa means to stay in your original body. And bondage means we want different types of enjoyment, so God gives us the facility: "All right. Enjoy." If I do not make any discrimination of food... As human being, we must have discrimination. But if you don't discriminate, then you get the body of a pig. You can eat even stool. If you want to eat meat unrestricted, you become a tiger. Nature will give you facility. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So according to your desire, you'll get a body. God will give you.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot do it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are... You can close this door. (break) ...population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. (break)

Jagadīśa: Third Chapter.

yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo
mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ
bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā
ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt
(BG 3.13)

Prabhupāda: So in order to release ourself from the sinful reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajña. And in this age the easiest process of yajña is saṅkīrtana-yajña. (long pause) So what are the problem?

Jagadīśa: Under "problems" are... There are some general problems such as taxes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Taxes. Taxation.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore He says "I am performer. If I give him instruction, he does something, so he is not doing. I am doing. I say, 'Do like this,' and he does like that, then he's not performer, I am performer." So whatever mantra they are chanting, if Kṛṣṇa does not give him intelligence, he cannot do that. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everyone, whatever we are doing, it is being supplied, the intelligence, the everything, but according to my desires. I cannot do anything independent. Just like we are constructing, practically, with the sanction of the municipality, the sanction of the government. Independently I cannot do. Similarly, we cannot anything without sanction of God. But that sanction is ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). I insist, "God give me this facility, give me this facility." "All right. You do it at your risk." But God says, that "You don't do this." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). "What I say, you do. Then you'll be happy. What I dictate you do. But you are dictating Me. Because you are my son, what can I do? All right. Do it."

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Before coming to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. At that time I was not sannyāsa. That means it was before '58. Somewhere in '57 or... So I tried my Godbrothers, that if they give me facilities for this, then I shall join. Otherwise, I will work independently. So nobody was able to provide me with this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nobody?

Prabhupāda: Well, they had no money. It requires money, printing of books.

Hari-śauri: How did you manage to get your first Bhāgavatams printed?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From donations.

Prabhupāda: Donation. This Dalmia, Jayadala, he gave me about four thousand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: H.N. Sharma always tells me, "I helped your Guruji print the first books."

Prabhupāda: That was through Hanuman.

Page Title:Independent (Conversations 1976)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:10 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=100, Let=0
No. of Quotes:100