Impersonal (Conversations 1975 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"imperson" |"impersonal" |"impersonally"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query:imperson or impersonal or impersonally not "Impersonal Brahman" not "impersonal feature*"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): That suggests that He has a brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. So as soon as He has got a brain, He is a person. Therefore God is person ultimately. Just like the government. Government is imperson, but the president is person. Similarly, the cosmic manifestation, the energy working, they are all imperson, but the brain behind this is person. That is the distinction between person and imperson.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): You said that it is person ultimately. What does that mean ultimately?

Prabhupāda: Ultimately, just like the government is imperson, but ultimately the president is person. The government is going on under the order of the president. Therefore impersonal government is not so important as the personal president is important. Another example: just like the sun, and the sunshine, and the sun-god, three things. The sunshine is impersonal, and the sun globe is localized, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So in one sense they are all one, means heat and light, but the sunshine is different from the sun globe. When... Just like here is sunshine in this room, but that is not sun globe. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. Is it clear? Any question about this?

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He says that if God is a person, how can we understand, as there's a common saying that God is and also is not?

Prabhupāda: God is person. That I have already explained, that the government is impersonal, the president is person, but the president is more important than the whole government. Just like a man in the court of the government is condemned to die. So there is no law in the government which can save him. But if the president shows him mercy, he can save him. Therefore, the president is more powerful than all the laws in the government. Therefore he is important. What does he say?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said there are many examples where the laws of the government are superior to the president. For example, in America where Nixon was pulled down by the laws.

Prabhupāda: But one law... When he was president, he was powerful than the government. When he resigned from the presidency, then he became less important. This is a crude example. The another example is that the sunshine is universally spread, and the sun globe is situated in one place. So which is important, the sun globe or the sunshine? And just like this light is situated in one place and the illumination is spread. So what is important, the illumination or the lamp? The fire is one place, and the fire light and heat is expanded, so the fire is localized, and the light and heat is expanded many miles.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in the world under many influences, I think...

Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior form or superior authority than Me." And that is confirmed by Lord Brahmā. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ means controller. There are different grades of controller, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam: "Unto Me alone."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Devotee: He's coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. India... Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy. So as in the material calculation, the heat and light is the cause of all creation. Just like at the present moment there is not sufficient heat; therefore the trees have no leaves. And as soon as there will be little more heat they will be all green. So you can take it that the creation of the foliage is due to the heat. Similarly light. So heat and light is the cause of all this material creation. And heat and light is coming from the sunshine, er, sun. Therefore heat becomes the origin of creation even in this material world. Similarly, there is another light. That is the original light. This is reflection. That is called brahma-jyotir, spiritual light.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But all these twelve names, they still make that personality whom they are describing all-attractive. So that means...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And not only that. When you have names, that means God is person. That must be admitted. God cannot be imperson. You may have twelve names or twelve thousand names, but when He has got name, He's a person. Now, our point is: "Who is that person?"

Trivikrama: Their point is... Well, one of their points is that if Christ was actually the son of God, why didn't he talk about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Trivikrama: If Christ was the son of God, the good son, how is that he didn't, he never mentioned Kṛṣṇa by name? Sometimes they criticize us like that: "Why is there no mention of Kṛṣṇa in the Christian Bible?"

Prabhupāda: He might not have mentioned, but why there are twelve names in the Bible?

Pañcadraviḍa: That's Old Testament. That's not Christ...

Prabhupāda: The name is there.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God arrange for the pleasures of sense gratification if He wants us to go back to home, back to Godhead?

Prabhupāda: Yes, senses are meant for enjoyment. But if you want to enjoy your senses in diseased condition, that is your misfortune. You have to cure your disease, then you will enjoy. Just like the tongue, in diseased condition, even if you are given rasagullā, you will not taste it. Senses, we are not the Māyāvādīs, they finish the senses, make, become impersonal. That is not our program. We want to purify the senses. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Purīfy. The diseased man, he cannot see. He has got some glaucoma disease. Cure it, and he will see very nicely. That is our program. The Māyāvādī program is that if this eye is giving trouble, I cannot see, pluck it out. We are not doing that, we are trying to cure the disease and see. So senses should be cured, and then you will be able to enjoy. That is our program. We are not stopping sense enjoyment; we are trying to give you real sense enjoyment.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: She says if you mean by the two the creator and us, how would you go about fostering or increasing that relationship between us and...

Prabhupāda: Creator, created. Do you believe in creator?

Carol: Impersonal creator, yes.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Amogha: She says impersonal creator.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal?

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that philosophy? Impersonal creator?

Carol: Without any attributes that we can...

Prabhupāda: Creator is an attribute. To become creator, that is attribute. If I create this bell, I know the art of how to create a bell.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: How can ignorance be removed?

Prabhupāda: The ignorant people can also learn from the learned. If you have got this idea that creator is impersonal, that means you are not a learned. You have no knowledge. And this is the simple answer. As soon as you say "creator," He has so many qualities. The bell... Suppose I am ringing. Now, when the spring is loose, it does not sound. So, others may not know, but one who has created—"Oh, the spring is loose. Now we wind it again." That means I know, ins and outs and everything. That is creator. So, if one is cognizant of everything, how He can be impersonal? What is this philosophy? Hmm? Answer. You are philosopher.

Amogha: He says if the creator, if one is cognizant of everything, then how can He not be a person? The creator is cognizant of everything. So if He is cognizant, how can He not be a person?

Carol: Well, He would incorporate personal attributes...

Prabhupāda: Hmm? She says "He."

Carol: ...not be governed by them.

Prabhupāda: She says "He," but He is impersonal. (laughter)

Carol: Yes. (laughs) It's the intellect and the emotion.

Prabhupāda: How vague ideas. And they are passing on philosophy. "He" contradicts. You say "He." And again He is impersonal.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Why should you emotional? You are a philosopher. You should talk very nicely.

Carol: Talk?

Amogha: He said, why be emotional? You are a philosopher, so talk very nicely.

Carol: Oh. (surprised) I don't philosophize.

Amogha: What she just said was that He is impersonal, but He incorporates personal features?

Carol: If God is in everything, then the personal attributes must be part of Him, it, whatever.

Amogha: She says personal attributes are part of God.

Carol: But God is not just limited to...

Prabhupāda: You have no idea of God.

Carol: No. I don't think...

Prabhupāda: He must be person. As soon as you say "He knows everything," "He creates," and so many other things, then these are all personal. You say "He." "He." These are all personal.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many times when I am seeing professors or students also, they seem to think that traditional Hinduism or whatever they think it is, they say that the Māyāvādī philosophy, or monist, they think this is traditional, and..., because there's so many translations of the Bhagavad-gītā and the Upaniṣads they've read, and they're all impersonal. So I was wondering what is the best way to convince them that actually, that is not actually the original tradition of understanding?

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming foolish, that they are reading Bhagavad-gītā and they are accepting original tradition of the Māyāvāda? In the original tradition of Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I said. I am person." How these rascals are accepting imperson? Why do they read Bhagavad-gītā? If they have got different theory, let them differently... They are cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is popular. Therefore they are taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and pushing on impersonalism. But here the tradition begins, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ. Where is imperson? So if they want to be cheated willingly, who can save them? They are reading Bhagavad-gītā and devīating from the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning?

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: "Purport. The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33).

Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas: eko devo nitya-līlānurakto bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antarātmā. 'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version, 'tat tvam asi,' is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord, 'You are the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead,' is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed.

In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion: tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya. One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no alternative because anyone who does not understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is surely in the mode of ignorance. Consequently he will not attain salvation, simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gītā according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume very important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection."

Prabhupāda: So if you distribute this knowledge, that will be real social work. And if you give some help, temporary, but he remains subjected to the rules of birth, death, and old age, that is temporary.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Worshiping means appreciating high qualities. Worshiping is not blind. If I know that you have some high qualities, I worship you.

Guest (2): Do you worship to a person or what? To his doctrines or...?

Prabhupāda: Worship means person. Worship does not mean imperson. Unless there is a person-to-person relationship, there is no question of worship.

Guest (2): Is... This picture of Śrī Viṣṇu, it's the person who you worship or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): He is the creator.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): And, in the sense that He is called Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is His another form. Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu's another form.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.

Madhudviṣa: One of the... Just from understanding, speaking to Amogha, is one of the doctor's dilemmas is that he is reading your Bhagavad-gītā, but his colleagues do not appreciate your Bhagavad-gītā so much. He, sometimes he is confronted with the people who are tending more towards the impersonal school of thought, I think, and they have criticisms of your Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So he...

Dr. Copeland: That's why I was asking. To see how you would reply to that.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you think that Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. What right you have got to say that He is imperson?

Dr. Copeland: I don't say.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone, anyone. What Kṛṣṇa is saying, He is saying as a person. Aham. You know the Sanskrit word? Aham, "I," first person. So why these foolish interpreters, they interpret "imperson"? What right they have got? They have no right. Suppose you are teaching something from your own point of view. What right I have got to say that "This is not Mr. Such and such opinion. What I say, that is opinion"? Is that very good judgment? You are saying something from your point of view, and I poke my nose that "This should be spoken like this." Is this honesty?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: In that illustration is Kṛṣṇa the sunshine or is Kṛṣṇa the sun?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the person. God is ultimately a person. And then, by His another potency, He is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cay... He is situated within the atom also. That is called Paramātmā, Supersoul. And He is situated in His impersonal, the whole material creation or any creation. The example is given just like fire. Fire is one place but its heat and light is expanded to mines. Just like the sun. It is a fire light, but heat and light is expanded throughout the universe. So similarly, God is one and His energy is expanded everywhere. You can understand Him by His energies. Just like the government, the president, he is not here, but still, we are under government. Who can deny, that "I am not under government"? If you say, "I do not see who is president. What is the government?" That is not argument. You are. Simply you have to make your eyes to see how you are under Kṛṣṇa. That is required. But you are already.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now big, big scholars, they have taken the trouble to write on Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody has taken the trouble to write on other scriptures like Bible or Koran. Nobody has taken. No scholar, no philosopher have tried to comment or study because they know it is not very important. Here is important. This is the proof, wisest. And that is only ABCD of God's knowledge. So people should take advantage. It is accepted indirectly. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā, in your country, English. Why they take trouble to read Bhagavad-gītā so carefully? Big, big scholars, philosophers, why? (break) It is the impersonal, cloth. So Śaṅkarācārya has tried to impress this fact, but the rascals followed in a different way. Just like a cloth, big cloth, that is impersonal. Now, you cut it into coat. It becomes like person. So similarly this whole material world is impersonal, but because we have taken a certain portion of it and make my body, it looks like person. And God is not like that. He is spiritual person. He has nothing to do with material. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). What Śaṅkarācārya impressed, that they are after demigods, so "The demigods, they are not actual person. Real person is Nārāyaṇa." That is Śaṅkarācārya's version. Nārāyaṇa... You will find in his comment on the Bhagavad-gītā. First word he writes, nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktād: "Nārāyaṇa has nothing to do with this material world." And he accepts in his comment, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ: "That Nārāyaṇa has appeared as Kṛṣṇa." And he has given specific name of His father as "the son of Devakī and Vasudeva" so that nobody can misidentify. If you have got Śaṅkara's bhāṣya, commentary on Bhagavad-gītā, you bring it I shall show you. (break) Kṛṣṇa also confirms. That verse, which we were reading last evening... Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: (BG 9.4) "This jagat, this material world, is impersonal. And that is My energy. Therefore the whole world is resting upon Me, but I am not there. As person, I am not there." This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like the sunshine is spreading all over the universe, but the sun is aloof. Take this example. Not that because the sunshine is here, we are now getting, the sun has come here. The sun is shining from the distant place. He is aloof. Similarly, God is person and His shining is all this creation. That is impersonal.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Allegorical?

Satsvarūpa: It's not a historial person. One lady represents learning, another... They represent different things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All, women. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...imperson.

Brahmānanda: Cupid is there, and it is marked "love."

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) (To Harikeśa, who has been coughing throughout:) ...not taking any medicine?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: This continuing is not good.

Harikeśa: I stopped eating anything but fruit, and that's what I did. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...examined your chest?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you should examine your chest. Some congestion in the lungs.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That you already questioned. We answered.

Harikeśa: I did?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...vādī means those who are aspiring to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence.

Harikeśa: And Māyāvādīs, they do not attain that impersonal realization?

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs remain fools forever.

Harikeśa: They never leave this material platform.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They have no knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), always impure. Otherwise how they are thinking, so 'ham: "I am same. I am God. I am moving the sun, I am..." Such rascals, they remain always in ignorance. (break) ...no sense that "If I am the same, then why I have fallen down in this māyā?" They say, "It is my līlā. I have become dog. So it is my līlā. I have become hog. It is my līlā." (laughs) This is their philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Māyāvāda. They are fools, mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māyāvādī means māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: (CC Madhya 6.169) "If you hear from Māyāvādī, then your spiritual life is finished." It's so dangerous.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The Śaivites, the Śaṅkarācārya.

Prof. Hopkins: Śaṅkarācārya, I know he is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkarācārya's theory is the ultimate, the Absolute Truth is impersonal. And one can imagine a personal form for the benefit of the worshiper.

Prof. Hopkins: But there are some worshipers of Śiva who would be personalists.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Hopkins: You would deny that.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.

Prof. Hopkins: Viṣṇu. Pañca (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But after you are per..., become, you are perfect, then you merge into the impersonal. That is Śaṅkara.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Perpetually. It is not that I am worshiping now and when I am perfect I become one. That is impersonal.

Prof. Hopkins: But someone who sees devotion as the not just a stage...

Prabhupāda: They say everything one; no devotee, no devotion, and no person. Everything becomes one.

Prof. Hopkins: So that would then be the deciding test, as it were, of whether one were a serious devotee or not.

Prabhupāda: Devotee means serious devotee.

Prof. Hopkins: Not only that one is devoted now, but that one sees the goal as perpetual devotion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nitya-yukta.

Prof. Hopkins: And which never is there...

Prabhupāda: The word is used, nitya-yukta. Nitya-yukta means perpetually. If a devotee is to merge into the existence of the Lord then why this word is used, nitya-yukta. Upāsana. Not only nitya-yukta, upāsana. Upāsana means "you worship Me." As soon as the word is "he worships" that means the worshipable and the mode of worship and the worshiper must be there. That is indicated, nitya-yukta, perpetual. But the Māyāvādīs or these impersonalists, they think that it is temporary. I am devotee temporarily. As soon as I become perfect I become one.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes to that conclusion, then he becomes perfect.

Tejas: He told me, "I have read so many Bhagavad-gītās previously, but never was the commentation clear. I could not understand the meaning."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They simply jugglery of words.

Tejas: All impersonal.

Bhāgavata: There was one man in Calcutta. You stayed in his house just before you left for America, and later he became a sannyāsī. He sings bhajans. He became a sannyāsī later. He knew you very well. You had written him a letter, and he just recently became a patron, and he is reading your books now also. I have forgotten his name, but he knew you very, very well. He used to sing bhajans. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...dranatha statue? (break) ...some contribution through that... What is that temple? No, no, Chandi Chowk?

Tejas: Ācchā. Gauri Shankar.

Prabhupāda: Gauri Shankar. I think, that Sita Ram? Sita Ram? He is living or not?

Tejas: Which Sita Ram?

Prabhupāda: He is one Mr. Sita Ram. He was secretary. Sita Ram barrister. So he introduced me there, and they agreed to pay me 1,500.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: It is a matter... You have no idea without matter. How you can say of spirit? You have no idea.

Indian man (3): God is not matter.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you cannot...

Indian man (3): This is not a direct...

Prabhupāda: You are accepting God is impersonal because He is sarva-vyāpaka. Why? Sarva-vyāpaka... He can be... You are thinking in your own way, that you are sitting here; you are not sarva-vyāpaka. You are vyāpaka here only, so you are thinking God is like you.

Indian man (3): No, I am not thinking like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your defect.

Indian man (3): On the contrary, that is...

Prabhupāda: Aiye aiye. That is your defect. You are comparing God with your existence.

Indian man (3): I am not comparing with God.

Prabhupāda: Then... I am giving you example that instead of sun having form, he is sarva-vyāpaka. That is my point. The sun and the sunlight is nondifferent. The sunlight is sarva-vyāpaka, but the sun is localized. That is my point.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And purport?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "Kṛṣṇa and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa is referred to as Bhagavān throughout the Gītā. Bhagavān is the ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely Brahman, or the impersonal, all-pervasive spirit; Paramātmā, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of all living entities; and Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this conception of the Absolute Truth is explained thus:

vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

'The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān.' (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter, eleventh verse.) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who understands the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine, its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramātmā feature of the Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the Supreme Absolute Truth.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, what do you mean by theoretical knowledge?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like so many... In Indian philosophy everyone knows that there is ātmā, but still, people continue to act on the gross bodily platform for sense enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: Then, if he seriously understood, then he will act on ātmā. And otherwise, simply understanding, that is impersonal understanding, Brahman only understanding. But what is after that, Brahman knowledge, that they do not know. So they are almost as good as the animals. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Therefore they are not happy. Simply theoretical knowledge that "I am Brahman," that's all.

Indian man (1): They know the knowledge but they don't act according to that.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all. Where is knowledge?

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe him, so out of fear he went away. "All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place." (laughter)

Cyavana: He created a great impression on the minds of men for many, many generations.

Prabhupāda: Imperson?

Cyavana: Impression.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Impression.

Cyavana: Yes. By his preaching he left a strong impression.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: Christianity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's like the flowery words of the Vedas, flowery words of the Vedas, mostly simply dealing with moral principles.

Prabhupāda: That also broken. He said, "Thou shall not kill." They broke it.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Gaṇapati, Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, Sūrya and Devī.

Dr. Patel: No, there are no Devī's here.

Prabhupāda: No, Devī's..., But their principle is this, that "God incarnation, impersonal. You imagine some form." Sādhakānāṁ nityārthāya brahmaṇo rūpa-kalpanaḥ.

Dr. Kalpana: (Hindi) They have got one Datta.

Prabhupāda: Dattātreya.

Dr. Kalpana: Dattātreya, yes. Then no doubt there is Hanumān because of the Rāma Mandir. Then there is Gaṇapati. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...goats before Kāla-bhairava.

Dr. Kalpana: It is, I mean, great description in Śiva Purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Every, every demigod...

Dr. Patel: No, Devī Purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: ...has got some description in different Purāṇas.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So, then Kṛṣṇa is speaking, otherwise how he heard? Hm? This nonsense is going on. Everywhere, it is very difficult position. So many rascals. And we have to push on our movement through so many obstacles, but still we are going on, that is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Otherwise we are simply meeting with obstacles. What can be done? We have to go, forward. I, I met in... same idea! Impersonalism, bogus thought and no clear idea.

Bhāgavata: One man came to Calcutta temple, and he insisted that Kṛṣṇa was impersonal, that He has no form. That He was, ultimately there is just the Brahman. I said that Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham; He says, "that aham means the Brahman." I said that if that aham means the Brahman, then why is Kṛṣṇa being redundant in saying that the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? Brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham, He just said Brahman is subordinate to aham, Me. So if aham means Brahman then why is Kṛṣṇa saying the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? And they are swamis, yogis and avatāras. It is very dangerous position, very dangerous. We have to deal with all rascals and fools. And they have made some position, of course that position is nothing, hm? A big big, I mean to say, Mr. Nanda is also big thing, of this idea, nirveśeṣa-śūnyavādī; still we cannot change our position. We must go on with our conviction and that is real. Reality. So, begin kīrtana. (end)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. The Hinduism is also a cheating religion. We are preaching Bhāgavata, and Bhāgavata beginning that "We have kicked out all cheating religion." What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion means the order given by God." If you do not know who is God, "imperson," then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They will consult all the standard dictionaries about Kṛṣṇa's definition and all the...

Prabhupāda: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...drinking wine and eating meat, the next stage is illicit sex. Is that the business of the Hindu monk? There are sampradāyas, Rāmānuja sampradāya, Śaṅkara sampradāya. But where the Hindu monk drinks and eats meat? They have introduced it. Is that Hinduism?

Acyutānanda: (break) Satajit.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays everyone has become impersonal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...pure Vaiṣṇava. What is that?

Indian man (1): House of a life member.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...take to our principles, these things will be automatically be finished. Na ca daivāt paraṁ balam.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) Well, impersonal philosophers are more dangerous than the atheist.

Dr. Patel: That you think.

Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.

Dr. Patel: Let's not discuss about this, not go into it.

Prabhupāda: He said, veda na maniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Vedāśraya bauddha-vāda nāstika ke adhika. We accept atheist, one who does not believe in the Vedas. Therefore we have rejected the Buddha philosophy. They could not exist in India. But those who are preaching atheism through Vedas, impersonal, they are more dangerous.

Dr. Patel: That impersonal preaching is not atheism.

Indian man: For example?

Prabhupāda: Anyone impersonalist—"God has no form." There are so many rascals. So he has got form to speak against God, and God has no form. This is going on all over the world. He speaks against the God, that "God is not a person." So he is person, and God is not person. Just see their foolishness. He is made by God, and he is a person, and who made him, he is not a person. This is foolishness.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything.... But therefore they are senseless, that "I am person, my father is person..."

Indian man: No, my father is not my person.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is understood that I am person, my father is person, his father is person, and the supreme father is not a person. Just see. If the supreme father is not a person, then wherefrom these personal fathers came here? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. "Mām"—this is person. The mūḍhas cannot understand that the supreme father is a person. Therefore Arjuna, at the, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he declared that "It is very, very difficult..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. "...to understand Your personality. It is very, very difficult." Arjuna has said. And he has accepted Him as person, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam: "You are eternally person." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādyam (BG 10.12). These things are there. The real understanding is there. And he said, "This is.... This is accepted by Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala." Svayaṁ caiva: "And You are also speaking." Then where is the question of imperson? Hare Kṛṣṇa. And therefore He, Kṛṣṇa, says bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānvān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). "You are person; I surrender unto You"—this knowledge comes after many, many births of this impersonalist. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). "That great mahātmā is very rare." So one who believes and accepts the Supreme as person, he immediately becomes a mahātmā. Otherwise he remains durātmā.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the great problem of the mūḍhas, that he is mūḍha, but he is thinking, "I am not mūḍha."

Indian man: Yes, that is the point. Everybody knows it.

Dr. Patel: Now, you see, impersonal and personal God, I am talking. I.... Perhaps you may not like. You know, the people.... You see, impersonal God is nothing but the emanation of God. As he said, the brahma-jyotir, or what as he once gave me that example, that sun and its rays, if you put a sort of mirror, you see the same sun there through the rays. Don't you? In the same way, you may see God everywhere that way, but real God is sun. Like that, God is there, but His emanation is Brahman. Para-brahman is God; Brahman is jyoti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Am I right?

Prabhupāda: Very good. Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So you go to Brahman but not to Para-brahman. When you try to realize Para-brahman, that is personal God; Brahman is impersonal God. Right, sir?

Prabhupāda: And He says, brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭhā: "Brahmajyoti is emanating from Me." Brahmajyoti, although impersonal, it is coming from Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: So I will one day preach in your place. (laughs) I will.... (Hindi) I was a professor in college, and I have got a knack of explaining everything. Yes.

Indian man: So, all right. I will be your śiṣya.

Dr. Patel: And then you become his śiṣya, that's all, indirect śiṣya. For the last two year I have been only reading all the great writings of Vaiṣṇava saints and Vaiṣṇava ācāryas because I read a lot of Śaṅkarācārya and others, and even, even post—what do you call—Buddhist philosophy, different lines, half a dozen of them. When I read the Vaiṣṇavas' teaching I think that.... Personally, you see, there are so many children, but your own son, you say, "This is my son." The personal relationship, when established, takes you far ahead psychologically. Am I right, sir? That is how personal God...

Prabhupāda: And if you take care of your own son, nobody will criticize you that "Why are you taking care of your own son, not others? Nobody will.... That is natural. That is explained in the Bhagavad.... Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu

(BG 9.29). He is equal to everyone. But one who is a devotee, "I take special care."

Dr. Patel: "He is in Me, and I am in him."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is why all the great bhaktas, all the great, I mean, say, Narsi Meta(?) or Mirabai, they have worshiped personal God and merged in personal God in toto. Their, that what we call that ego is washed away by the sacred, I mean, this thing of God. Our impersonal philosophers are there, but they are not so well known. That is why he said that personal God and, I mean, worshiping personal God, you are immediately raised to that status from where you will be able to get jñāna.

Prabhupāda: (break) There was one teacher in my school, he used to say that "One who is slow to understand, he is slow to forget also."

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's a fact. It's really a fact.

Prabhupāda: And one who understands quickly and he forgets quickly. So Dr. Patel has understood slowly. So he'll never forget it.

Dr. Patel: But I...

Indian man: Actually that is a fact.

Dr. Patel: I have been very critical within myself. All my.... All my studies, medical, otherwise, I have been always...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, critical...

Dr. Patel: I have studied even geology.

Prabhupāda: Critical student, that is...

Dr. Patel: Out of just fun, what it is about. I am a student all round.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). Paripraśna is required, but after praṇipāta.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: That's our madness.

Prabhupāda: Madness. The whole world is going on on this foolish understanding. Therefore they have been described, mūḍha, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "There is no God, there is no Kṛṣṇa, it may be He is impersonal, there is no personality, and I am equal to Him"—these are all rascals, fools.

Dayānanda: So actually there is no way to become detached.

Prabhupāda: The only way is that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Dayānanda: Except through Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and everything will be clear, just like as soon as the sun rises, everything is clear, no covering. That is our propaganda, that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious; then you become fully aware of everything. Otherwise you remain rascal, fools, gādhā, asses. If you prefer to remain asses, you can do so, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We must preach real, reality.

Dayānanda: Even the jñānīs and yogis become...

Prabhupāda: What is these jñānīs? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore so-called jñānīs, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Then he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The activities inside.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the activity which concerns. In the university there is only activity of education, learning. And here, all the criminals are violating the laws, they are put together. But superficially they look the same room, same food, same office, same typewriter. So it is the question of understanding why it is called criminal department and why it is called university. So as soon as it is university department, that is good. The same building, the same dictaphone, the same typewriter, same table, same chair, when they are used for Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The same money, everything, it looks like that. Therefore they cannot understand. The nirviśeṣavādī and the śūnyavādī, they: "Spiritual means these things should be zero." They say it should be zero. "No table, no chair, no house, no, no, no, no..." But that is (laughs) ignorance. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. The things which are usable by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, if we give up them, prapañcikā, as material, that is foolishness. That they do not know. They have yet to learn. It is Rūpa Gosvāmī's injunction. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ. Parityāga means giving up: "Oh, it is material." So we are not such fools, śūnyavādī and nirviśeṣavādī. We are not such fools. Arjuna, he thought that not killing is better than killing, but Kṛṣṇa convinced him, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Therefore he, after reading Bhagavad-gītā, he took it, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Generally people understand not killing is better than killing. But Kṛṣṇa explained to Arjuna, "No, if there is My desire, then killing is better than not killing." And that is knowledge. Therefore we have to carry out simply Kṛṣṇa's order or His representative's order. Then it is all good. Either killing or not killing, it doesn't matter because it is coming directly from the Supreme. And that is spiritual. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to kill? He was presenting as very good man, that "I shall not kill." And that's.... Actually that is good. Even if you enemy excuse him, that is very good idea. But if it is not desired by Kṛṣṇa, then it is bad. So our principle is: We have to act according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is good; otherwise bad. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So in spite of advancement of knowledge, because they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore they are all duṣkṛtinaḥ, all sinful men. That is the test. So it is very difficult to understand this philosophy, but this is the fact. We are not going to be followers of zero-vādīs or impersonal-vādīs. We remain completely in the varieties, but these varieties are usable only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. You cannot stop the varieties. You have to change the quality of the varieties. Just like we are eating. It is not possible to stop eating. Why shall I stop eating? But the quality is changed. It is prasādam.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So love of God means six things. This is the difference between other literature and Vedic literature. Here it is said, "love of God," but in the Vedic literature you will find the process of love,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

sakhyam ātma-nivedanam

(SB 7.5.23)

Nine different processes. First of all you should hear about the glories of God, śravaṇam. Then you should preach the glories of God. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. You should always remember God, smaraṇam. Pāda-sevanam: you should worship the Lord by worshiping, giving service to His lotus feet. But if God is imperson, where is feet? And if God is no form, then how you can remember Him?

Guest (2): We believe God has form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But, then next question will be "What is the form?"

Guest (2): We believe in a man, form of a man, flesh and bone, glorified and perfected.

Prabhupāda: So you believe that man is God?

Guest (2): Not man is God.

Prabhupāda: Then? God is like man. You mean to say the form of God is like man?

Guru-kṛpā: No, flesh and bone.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (5): Dharmādhyakṣa. I don't know who he is.

Devotee (3): It's the colleges.

Devotee (5): Oh. They're, I think, in charge of the college program.

Prabhupāda: The idea is good, but (indistinct). Impersonal.

Devotee (5): Hm.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal is not good.

Devotee (5): So if someone was to receive this, they wouldn't necessarily connect it with you at all. They could think it was anything, 'cause there's no mention of your name.

Prabhupāda: Who published it?

Devotee (5): Uhh, I don't know who printed it.

Prabhupāda: That you did not ask?

Devotee (5): Rameśvara didn't know anything about who printed it or how many copies were printed or anything. He said all he knew was that it was put together by Bahulāśva and Dharmādhyakṣa.

Prabhupāda: So ask them.

Devotee (5): I have to, to contact them and find out how it was actually... Should I write them a letter?

Prabhupāda: He just sent one letter. You, you write.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Come to practical, that you are created by your father. That you have to accept. So similarly, everything we see.... This car is created by someone. Everything we see, created. So how can you say there is no creator? Within our experience we see everything is created by someone.

Rāmeśvara: Creative energy is there.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the fact is...

Rāmeśvara: Impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Not impersonal, personal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then who created the creator?

Prabhupāda: Huh? That we shall see, but first of all you have to accept there is a creator.

Rāmeśvara: They will agree, some people will agree...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: ...that there is energy for creating.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.

Rāmeśvara: But they do not give one person the credit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Just like this manufacturer of this car, he's not handling this creation by his own hand. He has got money, energy. He pays the mechanical person to create, but ultimately it is Ford. Ford is not creating everything. Ford's money, Ford's employees, workers, they are creating, but the name is Ford. Similarly, everything is being created by God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). And He has got so many working hands. That is also.... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Multi-energies, they are doing like that.... But He is supervising, "Have you done this?" "Yes." "That's all. Go on." So how can you go beyond your experience? Everything is created. A child may think, "How this car is created?" But it is, factually it is created. He cannot imagine how this nice car is created. Why child? Even elderly persons in a nondeveloped country, they'll be surprised how this car is created. They cannot do it.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.

Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Mahendra: Many of us were also thinking God to be impersonal before we met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: We were not attached to that conception. When you explained personal nature of God and the many arguments in favor, gradually we were convinced. But then there are those also who are attached to that conception, like in the Bhagavad-gītā it says those who are attached to that conception...

Prabhupāda: No, we can see every day the impersonal feature of the sun—the sunlight, the sunshine. But which is important, the sunshine is important or the sun is important? Daily we see. The sunshine is spread all over the universe, very big. But what is the use of this big, if there is no sun globe?

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything is resting in Me. I am present all over the universe, impersonally. I can't be seen. Everything is resting on Me. At the same time, I'm outside of everything. I'm independent." He maintains His personality.

Prabhupāda: Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. "I'm not there." So this is conception of God. Nothing can exist without God. But that does not mean everything is God. We have to understand this philosophy.

Indian man: I just want to ask..., Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhu, Bhaktisiddhānta your spiritual master. How you spent the days, your young age, with Bhaktisiddhānta?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man: Yes. Bhaktisiddhānta, your spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Young age? I was not with him. I was householder. But I used to meet with him. I was following his instructions. (break) ...valley? (indistinct) valley? No.

Viśvakarmā: That's another section, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That verse, can anyone remember? Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ? Huh?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. The Vedantists they have come from the impersonal explanation of Śaṅkarācārya. Śārīraka-bhāṣya. But they simply give stress on the Śārīraka-bhāṣya, but there are other bhāṣyas. Bhāṣyas means commentary. And the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the author himself. Besides that, there are Vedānta-bhāṣyas written by the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and all the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas. Unfortunately, they do not care to read all these Vedānta-bhāṣyas. They simply take Śārīraka-bhāṣya and become impersonalist and call themselves as Vedantist.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that differentiates also the simple matter without life. For example, sometimes it has been asked whether a crystal is alive or not. This is confusing to the scientists. Sometimes they say that a crystal is behaving just like a living body, it grows and this and that, they say. But actually there is no flow of matter. That tells us that crystal is not life. There's a fundamental difference. The last point in this connection is that matter is impersonal and life has personality.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that implies that matter is unconscious and the life is fully conscious.

Vṛṣākapi: It's been said sometimes, Prabhupāda, that you have said that some rocks have life. Some rocks, some stones, are actually souls in them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the tree there is spirit soul. Everywhere there is spirit soul, but development of consciousness makes difference. The difference between the tree and man is that man is developed consciousness. Consciousness is developed. Tree is not developed. That is difference, but life is there both in the tree and in man.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: There are certain hymns in Vedas which are so personal and... And I don't find anything in Vedas impersonal. As a matter of fact...

Prabhupāda: No, no, impersonal there is. Impersonal means negation of this material thing. Neti neti, "Not this." Impersonal means not this material person. That is impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, but in order to convince people that He's person but not a material person, the material things have to be negated. That is Upaniṣad. Just to evade the material conception of the Absolute. But ultimately He's person. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu (Bs. 5.40). These things are there. So in order to substantiate the Supreme Person as completely spiritual, the material conception of personality is rejected. That is impersonal. Nirguṇa means He has no material qualities. Bhakta-vatsala, Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. That is not material quality, that is spiritual quality. So negation of material understanding is impersonal. But when one is fully in awareness of Kṛṣṇa, His spiritual identity, then again He's person.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the example this morning that something which is personal can speak, like Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa's described in Bhagavad-gītā as the Supreme. But we don't have any experience of something impersonal like the sky speaking to us. So if the Supreme is impersonal, how is it that Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Him?

Dr. Sukla: Māyāvādīs like Swami Vivekananda, he questions "Who was Lord Kṛṣṇa?" Was Kṛṣṇa King of Dvārakā or anybody else, he don't know even that.

Prabhupāda: He's a fool. He does not know, therefore other does not know. It is not the fact. He's a fool, he does not know.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: I think they try to be impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. They are supposed to be great personalities, but not a single person was converted.

Dr. Sukla: (indistinct) ...he was asked who is such a master. He pointed out could not answer who can be such a master. He posed himself as a spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: So here is an opportunity to preach real India's traditional culture. So those who are Indians present here, they should cooperate. They should not mislead further.

Dr. Sukla: We have started teaching your Gītā at Georgetown University, where I teach. Before we had, we have two years course of Sanskrit, and we had some excerpts from Mahābhārata and some Pañca-tantra and so on, but there was no Gītā. So I decided and we were using the entire Gītā for the second year. Your contributions can't be duplicated.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is wanted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight." He hesitated. "How can I fight? To kill my grandfather, my teacher? To kill my brother? My nephew? And so on, so on, so on. What You are advising, Kṛṣṇa, I cannot do." Therefore Bhagavad-gītā was talked, and after learning he says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava." (indistinct) This is perfection. He remained the same soldier. In the beginning, he was declining to fight, but at the end, he has agreed, "Yes." In the beginning it was "No." And when he was perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is "Yes." The materialist person, they are accustomed to say, "No." "No, God." When you become "Yes, God," then you are perfect. Jñānīs are "No, God." The karmīs are "No, God," yogis are "No, God," everyone, "No, God." Only the bhaktas, "Yes, God!" Yes. So that is perfect. This morning one Indian gentleman was talking about this impersonal, what was his question?

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, some gentleman was asking the question in the morning?

Devotee: (indistinct) interpretation, that one person is interpreting in this way and another in that way, so they're saying they feel like if...

Prabhupāda: So why they should interpret different way?

Guest: What was the question?

Prabhupāda: Just... Explain to him.

Devotee: There was an Indian man there and he was saying that, you were presenting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the philosophy very nicely, but there are others who are presenting it in an impersonal way. And they are able through the scripture to support what they say. Prabhupāda (indistinct) now in our (indistinct) you can't actually substantiate that God is impersonal, because Kṛṣṇa is a person speaking to Arjuna, so where is the question of impersonal? (indistinct) So Prabhupāda said it's because they're speculating and cheating, that they're interpreting it in some devious manner, rather than taking what Kṛṣṇa said, literally, as (indistinct).

Guest: Well, I have given some thought to that. I found that whenever you take an impersonal view, it becomes a pure intellectual exercise, devoid of any feeling. And if you bring feeling into that, it becomes personal. Like, I don't believe that anything can survive without feeling. So...

Prabhupāda: It is in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said, bhagavān uvāca. It is never said Brahman uvāca. (laughter) People have no eyes to see. The absolute truth is realized brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is never said Paramātmā uvāca. (laughter) Or Brahman uvāca. Bhagavān uvāca! Vyāsadeva, He does not say kṛṣṇa uvāca, because Kṛṣṇa will be taken, misunderstood. Therefore (Vyāsadeva) directly says, śrī bhagavān uvāca. So where is impersonal? There is no question of impersonal. He clearly says bhagavān. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). Bhagavān says, "I am everything." So where is imperson? How they can bring in impersonal at all? It is simply dragging (?) the matter. This impersonal has killed India's Vedic culture.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rūpānuga: But sometimes the impersonalists, they say, Prabhupāda, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just the beginning platform, that after Kṛṣṇa consciousness then one can come to impersonal realization. They say that in the scriptures only Bhagavad-gītā and a few scriptures teach about Kṛṣṇa but the rest of the Vedas don't even talk about Kṛṣṇa's name. So, therefore, this impersonalism is higher realization, but one comes to it, after bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: He has clearly (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)?

Guest (3): The Māyāvādīs say that Vedānta is impersonal, and (indistinct) Vedānta...

Prabhupāda: You do not know what is Vedānta. (indistinct) In the beginning of Vedānta, athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Now try to inquire about this Supreme, (indistinct) Brahman." The next verse is janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Brahman is there, from whom everything emanates. So now, what is that thing from which everything emanates? What is the nature of that thing? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhāgavatam is the real explanation of Veda. Brahma-sūtra, (indistinct) mahasyam brahma-sūtrānāṁ vedasya parividyatam (?), this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, vedasya parividyatam, (indistinct) avyayam, brahma-sūtrasya (?) uvaca, by Vyāsadeva himself. Vyāsadeva is the writer of Vedānta-sūtra, so he's writing himself under the instruction of Nārada. So to understand Vedānta, you have to study Bhāgavatam. He's explained janmādy asya (SB 1.1.1). Brahman is the original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ. So what is the nature? Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca... (end)

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "This chapter is chiefly devoted to describing the essential nature and glories of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the absolute Personality of Godhead, and His first expansion in a form for pastimes is Śrī Balarāma. Beyond the limitation of this material world is the spiritual sky, paravyoma, which has many spiritual planets, the supreme of which is called Kṛṣṇaloka. Kṛṣṇaloka, the abode of Kṛṣṇa, has three divisions, which are known as Dvārakā, Mathurā and Gokula. In that abode the Personality of Godhead expands Himself into four plenary portions-Kṛṣṇa, Balarāma, Pradyumna (the transcendental Cupid) and Aniruddha. They are known as the original quadruple forms. In Kṛṣṇaloka is a transcendental place known as Śvetadvīpa, or Vṛndāvana. Below Kṛṣṇaloka, in the spiritual sky, are the Vaikuṇṭha planets. On each Vaikuṇṭha planet a four-handed Nārāyaṇa, expanded from the first quadruple manifestation, is present. The Personality of Godhead known as Śrī Balarāma in Kṛṣṇaloka is the original Saṅkarṣaṇa (attracting Deity), and from this Saṅkarṣaṇa expands another Saṅkarṣaṇa, called Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa, who resides in one of the Vaikuṇṭha planets. By His internal potency, Mahā-Saṅkarṣaṇa maintains the transcendental existence of all the planets in the spiritual sky, where all the living beings are eternally liberated souls. The influence of the material energy is conspicuous there by its absence. On those planets the second quadruple manifestation is present. Outside of the Vaikuṇṭha planets is the impersonal manifestation of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, which is known as the Brahmaloka. On the other side of the Brahmaloka is the spiritual kāraṇa-samudra, or Causal Ocean. The material energy exists on the other side of the Causal Ocean, without touching it. In the Causal Ocean is Mahā-Viṣṇu, the original puruṣa expansion from Saṅkarṣaṇa. This Mahā-Viṣṇu places His glance over the material energy, and by a reflection of His transcendental body He amalgamates Himself within the material elements. As the source of the material elements, the material energy is known as pradhāna, and as the source of the manifestations of the material energy it is known as māyā. But material nature is inert in that she has no independent power to do anything. She is empowered to make the cosmic manifestation by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Therefore the material energy is not the original cause of the material manifestation. Rather, the transcendental glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu over material nature produces that cosmic manifestation."

Prabhupāda: So you try to understand this, everything will be clear. Material energy has no power to create. It is this glance that makes material energy energetic. Chemical combination, that alkaline and acid, they create some agitation, effervescence, but it is done by the chemist. He mixes the two liquids and there is effervescence. It is like that. So you read that chapter carefully. You'll solve your problem.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rādhāvallabha: Eighteen thousand disciples. He says, "It does not matter to whom one surrenders. The relevance is in the act of surrendering. But because the human mind sees things in terms of relationships, surrender to a guru is often useful. The guru is a step toward the impersonal divine, a step toward surrender to the existence."

Hari-śauri: He makes a comment about sannyāsa as well, I think.

Rādhāvallabha: He initiates sannyāsa, they call themselves neo-sannyāsa. "At initiation a sannyāsī receives a new name, an ochre robe and a mālā, a string of beads holding a locket that frames a photograph of Bhagwan."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagwan Rajneesh, not Bhagavān.

Rādhāvallabha: The one who says it's no necessity to have a spiritual master. He says "The picture is not mine. Had it been mine I would have hesitated to put it there. The picture only appears as mine."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's word jugglery (laughter). The picture is of himself, he says "It is not me. If it was me I would not have put it there, it only appears to be me."

Devotee (1): They want something very cheap and easy to attain.

Rādhāvallabha: Here's his method. First they engage in breathing. It says, "The really successful meditator sounds like an exhausted sea lion." He says "If you feel like dancing, dance, laugh, scream, sing, express your love, your hate, your anger, your jealousy. Do not condemn what happens; do not condone it. Just go mad. Express whatever is within you totally, intensity." And here's his mantra, "Who who who." That's his mantra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were doing this in Bhopal. In Bhopal, we were there when we had our Jeeps. So in the same place we were staying they let this group Rajneesh do it. So they were going with that mantra, "Who who." So we were standing out from the balcony shouting, "Kṛṣṇa, that's who." Every morning they would do that meditation, and we would answer "Kṛṣṇa." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: They call his method "chaotic meditation."

Prabhupāda: They say?

Hari-śauri: That's the heading, it says "Chaotic Meditation."

Rādhāvallabha: That's the name of it. After they go "Who who who who who who..."

Prabhupāda: What about..., what they have written about us?

Rādhāvallabha: About us?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A big article.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (4): Prabhupāda? Buddha was the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, right? Then why he has preached the impersonal form of God?

Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here? Find out that, when Lord Buddha appeared, that verse. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). His propaganda was to cheat the atheist class of men. Atheist class of men, they did not recognize existence of God, so He became one of them. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. This atheist class, they were killing animals in the name of yajña like anything. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7), so He came as Buddha to stop this animal killing. His real business was stop the animal killing, that these rascals are going to hell in the name of religion, so at least stop their activities of animal killing. So therefore he started the mission, ahiṁsā paramo dharma: "Don't kill animals." But in the Vedas there is recommendation, in the yajña, as you were saying, that there is..., animal killing is recommended. So people presented that "Here is animal killing recommended in the yajña." Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men. He said that "Don't kill animals. If you are killed you feel pain. Why you should kill animals?" That was his mission, to stop animal killing, sinful activities.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (4): I just asked why he has preached impersonal form of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they were all godless, so he said, "There is no God, but you stop this animal killing." That was his mission. And he said, "There is no God, but whatever I say, you accept." So they agreed. But he is God. That is cheating. Superficially he said there is no God, but he is God. Somehow or other, if people stop animal killing and accept Lord Buddha, then he becomes at least one step forward to God realization. So in a cheating process he made good to others.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say nature means laws, impersonal laws.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, impersonal laws, but you are controlled, rascal. That you admit. Whatever it may be, you rascal, you are controlled.

Rāmeśvara: They say if everyone joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then no one would have any desire to invent the automobile, the airplane...

Prabhupāda: But it is useless waste of time. The sooner they give up all these attempts, they become saner. (break)... it is said it is simply waste of time. Yato āyur vyayaḥ param. Simply wasting time, valuable life.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But they are actually impersonalists. They neither follow Śiva nor Kṛṣṇa. They are impersonalists. Their idea is the Absolute Truth is imperson. You can worship Him either as Śiva or as Kṛṣṇa, as you like. That is their philosophy. Yes.

Indian man: Yes. But this is the height of hypocrisy, to teach Gītā and to chant oṁ namaḥ śivāya.

Prabhupāda: No, because they say, "Either way, you become impersonal at the end. You Brahma-liṅga;(?) you become one with Brahma. But before you become Brahma-liṅga, you can imagine some form, either Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu or Śiva or Durgā, the same thing." That is their...

Indian man: In fact some of the arguments that I received were... "If you go to heaven, let's say, Vaikuṇṭha, then you become... You join the impersonal Brahman. Then you have nothing else to do." He says, "In material world we have family. We have something to do." I said, "If you believe in impersonalism, you have nothing to do. If you believe in personalism, you will serve the Lord there."

Prabhupāda: Impersonal means if you have nothing to do, then you'll become mad.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, they couldn't. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). This is the verse. Religion means the words given by God. But they have no idea what is God, whether He can speak or He's a dull, dumb. That is the difficulty. The Māyāvādīs, they say God has no mouth. So how He will speak? He has no eyes, He has no ears. Then who will hear my prayer? That is Māyāvādī definition. But Vedas say apāni-pādo javana gṛhīta.(?) That both things, that He has no leg, but he can walk faster than anyone. He has no ear, but He can hear everything. Just like we have got this ear, but I cannot hear what is going on next room. But God has no ear, but He can hear here, there, everywhere. This is Vedic definition. This is Vedic definition. Śṛṇoti akarṇa. He has no ears, but He hears everything. That means that it is not the fact that He has no ear, but He has no limited ear like me. And therefore described sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). You cannot compare with this body. Because sat means eternal. So this body is not eternal. So when God has no body means He hasn't got a body like this. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. But He has body. You cannot say impersonal. But His body is of different quality. Just like you have got body, but you cannot swim in the..., or you cannot remain within the water. Similarly, he has got body, but not the body like this, perishable. Sac-cid-ānanda, this body is perishable. But He has got imperishable. Avyayātmā. We have to understand in that way. Not that because it is stated He has no body that means He is zero. No, he has got body, but not body not like this.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Purport?

Pradyumna: "The Lord's descent from his transcendental abode, is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then the liberation they achieve, merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord, is only partial and there's the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas:

eko devo nitya-līlānurakto

bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antar-ātmā

'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version, tat tvam asi, is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord, 'You are the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead,' is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed. In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion:

tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti

nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya

One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no alternative because anyone who does not understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is surely in the mode of ignorance. Consequently he will not attain salvation, simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gītā according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume many important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection."

Prabhupāda: So if there is some process to become independent of this material body, why should we not accept? What is the objection? If somebody's suffering from some disease and if there is process of curing it, why one should not take it? (long pause) So your friend's questions and answers are not coming?

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Sometimes boys come here and they are involved in impersonal meditation. They want liberation...

Prabhupāda: Well, that is their business. Let them do. You try to understand the position. Meditation is also something. Asuras, they do not take to meditation. Meditation is something beginning to the path of devatā. Dhyānāvasthita. If they are actually serious then they can profit. Meditation is not always bad, if they are properly guided. But that is not the business of the asuras. They say, "On whom I shall meditate?" The asuras do not do that.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Never mind. I'll... After hearing this book I'll let him know.

Jayapatākā: After they write everything, then I also read it in Bengali. I can... And if I see something that seems a little impersonal or something, I say that...

Prabhupāda: Correct it.

Jayapatākā: Yes, correct it. That much I can do.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal idea is in everyone's head. "God has no legs, no head. Simply he has got head."

Jayapatākā: I can also write to the... Previously in 1971-72 at the pandals you used to speak in Bengali some days. I'll write for those tapes. We can...

Gargamuni: Oh, those tapes. I asked for those tapes so long ago. If we can get those Hindi and Bengali tapes we could have them transcribed, and they can make very good essays.

Jayapatākā: All the big English Back to Godhead articles are actually your lectures simply transcribed. So we could transcribe those tapes and we could have originally your words.

Gargamuni: Yes. There were ten days when Prabhupāda spoke in Bengali.

Jayapatākā: Twice. Once in Deshapriya Park and once at Maidan. Even today people talk about both festivals.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavāner Kathā.

Jayapatākā: Bhagavāner Kathā. Devānanda Gauḍīya Maṭha. Paper of Gauḍīya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gauḍīya it was published continuous.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Avyaktā hi gatir duḥkham. (Hindi) Read it.

Pradyumna: "For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) You are expecting happiness by thinking of impersonal form of the Lord. That is not possible. You simply get troubles, that's all. (Hindi) What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jñāna-yogis, and persons who are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord are called bhakti-yogis. Now here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa personally says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). (Hindi) If you like to tolerate adi-kleśa, that is your choice.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Besides that, He says in another place that as they pass through our existence... (break) ...in future we shall continue, then when he becomes avyakta?

Pradyumna: Yes. Past existence he was, future existence he will be when he becomes...

Prabhupāda: Past, present, future, there are three times. So if every time he is person, when he becomes imperson?

Hari-śauri: And this thing about God is an Indian.

Prabhupāda: And God is an Indian, that is also rascaldom. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So how He's Indian? Throughout the whole universe, as many forms of body are there, He is the father. So how he is Indian? If the father is Indian, then the son is also Indian. So father is not Indian, so how the God can be Indian?

Pradyumna: Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).

Prabhupāda: Tanum āśritam. This concept of Indian, European is there because you are a mūḍha. Just directly charge him. Directly. That "You are a mūḍha, you are a rascal," immediately. Let him speak. And send it to the newspaper that this letter we have sent challenging this rascal, let him reply. If he does not reply, silent, that means he's accepts he's a rascal.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Lokanātha: Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142).

Prabhupāda: Āra saba bhṛtya. God is one and all others, they are subjects. Nityo nityānām. Why these two words are used, nityānām. Everyone is nitya, but He's the supreme nitya. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's not dead body, dead matter. Cetana. Nityam, just as the Himalaya parvata is standing forever. No. Cetana. Living. So how He can be imperson? Himalaya parvata may be very big, the sky may be big, but it is not cetana. Therefore this word is used. Cetana, living. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference? Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one nitya is providing, maintaining all other nityas. That is God. God is great. That is the meaning. So anyway, make your effort sincerely. The basic principle is this. Induce them to chant and take prasāda. You'll be successful. Not very much ostādi. (Hindi)

Lokanātha: So we'll write to you, (indistinct) books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go to village to village. It is very noble attempt. And if you sincerely preach Kṛṣṇa will... buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. There is no doubt.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: So this quote goes on. "But those who in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing the Vedānta and the Upaniṣads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: So in this connection, the statement of Bhāgavatam, is especially important. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman is impersonal, Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead...

Pradyumna: Brahman is the impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Brahman is impersonal. Not "the." Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa as follows. Quote this, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12). Find out. No. Find out in the book.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam...

Pradyumna: Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam.

Prabhupāda: Divyam. So here Arjuna addresses Lord Kṛṣṇa as śāśvataṁ puruṣam, eternally the Personality of Godhead. It is never admitted that Supreme Lord is originally imperson. Puruṣam. I have described puruṣam? Yes. What you have written?

Pradyumna: "When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa as follows, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12), etc. Here Kṛṣṇa addresses... Here Arjuna addresses Kṛṣṇa as śāśvataṁ puruṣam or the eternal Personality of Godhead. It is never admitted that the Supreme Lord is originally impersonal."

Prabhupāda: Then, you read the other verses.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has personally said to Arjuna that in the past he was person.

Pradyumna: So "Kṛṣṇa, in person"?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, as a person, says to Arjuna that both of them existed in the past as person, and they'll continue to remain person in the future.

Pradyumna: Both of them existed in the past as person and both of them shall continue to...

Prabhupāda: Remain as person in the future. So without knowing all this knowledge, a mūḍha accepts the incarnation of God as coming from imperson. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Under this heading you have proved yourself to become a mūḍha. And how a mūḍha or an ass can become the incarnation of God? Then? Read that Blitz paper, one after another.

Pradyumna: Then, this is the end of his quote and then the editor, the writer is speaking. "This may appear an extraordinarily controversial claim to those unfamiliar with the spiritual depths of Hindu religio-philosophy. The latter totally accepts the avatāra concept which broadly means the descent of the divine principle into human affairs. In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to say..."

Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Doctor: But then it's much better to worship God in form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is intelligence. If you accept Kṛṣṇa immediately, man-manā bhava mad..., then your life is successful. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te (BG 18.65), He said. But they are not interested. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is a historical person. Why shall I think of Him? I shall think of oṁkāra." You cannot think of oṁkāra. You can hear. And as soon as you think of oṁkāra it comes from? There is no impersonalism. It again becomes personal. So they want to avoid personality and as well as think of Him—it becomes a very troublesome job. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). They cannot think of avyakta, impersonal. But they are trying to think of. That is a very troublesome job. Kleśala eva avaśiṣyate.(?) Such attempt means he simply gets the result of his hard endeavor. That's all. He doesn't get any substance.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: All impersonal.

Jagadisa: That's why there may be an (indistinct) in getting Indian people to support our movement.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadisa: If there is any trouble in getting Indians...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't care for Indians and Europeans. We care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. I didn't care for anyone. I simply care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. And my Guru Mahārāja, that's all. I went to your country, not supported by Indians and Europeans. I went on the order of my Guru Mahārāja and under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's protection, that's all. That is wanted. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). We want two favours. One from guru, one from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We don't want anyone's favour. So you have to fight. You cannot fight (sic:) immaterious. Kṛṣṇa never said, "Arjuna, oh you are my devotee, you sit down and sleep, I shall take care of..." He never said that. (laughs) So if you take that position, we are devotees, non-violent, and let us sleep, that is not... Fight! With all the resources that we have got. That is wanted. (voices in background of Indian people) That you cannot stop. They are coming, going, how you can stop? People, public, they are coming, going.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): It is not contradictory.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is contradictory. Unless you have got a personality, you cannot speak, you cannot think. So how it is nirākāra? That is my first point. Kṛṣṇa says, "aham." He is person. We worship Kṛṣṇa as person. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). That "aham," He's person. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person because he says aham ādir hi devānām.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

He's person. Kṛṣṇa never said that "I am nirākāra." Where He has said? Can you quote any verse? When He says nirākāra, He says like this, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Mayā, by Me. Tatam idaṁ sarvam, everywhere, by My energy. Just like the sun-god. The sun-god is within the sun globe. His bodily luster is coming. The sun-god can say, "The sunshine is my bodily exposition." That is reasonable. Just like a big light, it has got exposition. Similarly... And that is confirmed in the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). Yasya, the person.

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

So when Kṛṣṇa said, mayā tatam idam, mayā means, "I am there." But "I" is existing. That "I", person, is existing. Just like if I say that "It is I who has expanded, I am expanded all over the world by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement," that's a fact. But that does not mean I am not a person. If I say that "I am, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means I am, I am spread by spreading this movement," that's a fact. But does it mean that I am imperson? That is, Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. Avyakta. So the same example we can give you that in all my branches, 110 branches, they worship me as their guru. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is existing on My management." Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. "But I am not there." It is a fact. All these 110 branches, they are going on under my direction, but not that I am present everywhere. But that does not mean I am not a person. So the supreme, the supreme manager, the supreme controller, how he can be nirākāra? That is my first question.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If son of God, if the son has form, how the father hasn't got form? What do you say? I'm asking you. This English boy. How the father can be formless? Christ says that he's the son of God. Is it not?

Englishman: He said he was, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he's a person. So how the father is imperson? What kind of father?

Dr. Patel: Sir, instead of calling person, we say he's an individual. Person means this body.

Prabhupāda: Person is individual.

Dr. Patel: Individual. So God is an individual then?

Prabhupāda: No, person. God is a person. Individual means person. Individual person.

Dr. Patel: Everything person is body.

Prabhupāda: Body or no body, that is separate thing. But when you say individual, he is a person. And it is explained also in the Bhagavad... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). Those who are inclined to the impersonal feature... God has got that impersonal feature. So they have to undergo more troubles to understand Him. And after going through troublesome business, bahūnāṁ janmanām, many, many births, then he understands, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, here is the person." Everywhere this disease is very prominent, that God is impersonal. Perhaps this is the only movement in the world that's preaching, "No, God is person."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Devotee: In this verse the words matir na kṛṣṇe refer to devotional service rendered to Kṛṣṇa. So-called politicians, erudite scholars and philosophers who read Bhagavad-gītā try to twist some meaning from it to suit their material purposes, but their misunderstandings of Kṛṣṇa will not yield them any profit. Because such politicians, philosophers and scholars are interested in using Bhagavad-gītā as a vehicle for adjusting things materially, for them constant thought of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is impossible (matir na kṛṣṇe). As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) only through devotional service can one understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. The so-called politicians and scholars think of Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. The politician says that his Kṛṣṇa is different from the Kṛṣṇa depicted in Bhagavad-gītā. Even though he accepts Kṛṣṇa and Rāma as the Supreme, he thinks of Rāma and Kṛṣṇa as impersonal because he has no idea of service to Kṛṣṇa. Thus his only business is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)—chewing the chewed again and again. The aim of such politicians and academic scholars is to enjoy this material world with their bodily senses. Therefore it is clearly stated herein that those who are gṛha-vrata, whose only aim is to live comfortably with the body in the material world, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. The two expressions gṛha-vrata and carvita-carvaṇānām indicate that a materialistic person tries to enjoy sense gratification in different bodily forms, life after life, but is still unsatisfied. In the name of personalism, this ism or that ism, such persons always remain attached to the materialistic way of life. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā:

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ

tayāpahṛta-cetasām

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

(BG 2.44)

"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place." Those who are attached to material enjoyment cannot be fixed in devotional service to the Lord. They cannot understand Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, or His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: (SB 7.5.30) their path actually leads toward hellish life. As confirmed by Rsabhādeva, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ: (SB 5.5.2) one must try to understand Kṛṣṇa by serving a devotee. The word mahat refers to a devotee.

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

bhajanty ananya-manaso

jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam

(BG 9.13)

"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible." (BG 9.13) A mahātmā is one who is constantly engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours a day. As explained in the following verses, unless one adheres to such a great personality, one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Hiranyakasipu wanted to know where Prahlāda had gotten this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Who had taught him? Prahlāda sarcastically replied, "My dear father, persons like you never understand Kṛṣṇa. One can understand Kṛṣṇa only by serving a mahat, a great soul. Those who try to adjust material conditions are said to be chewing the chewed. No one has been able to adjust material conditions, but life after life, generation after generation, people try and repeatedly fail. Unless one is properly trained by a mahat—a mahātmā, or unalloyed devotee of the Lord—there is no possibility of one's understanding Kṛṣṇa and His devotional service."

Prabhupāda: I have seen in San Francisco, what is that (indistinct)?

Devotee: (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I think San Francisco. What is that park?

Girirāja: Golden Gate.

Prabhupāda: Golden Gate park.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is only medicine. That is only remedy.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...directly presented, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "But why you are making research and wasting time, 'Whether God is person or imperson or this or that? What is His...?' Here is God."

Guest (1): That is the material view, to analyze all these things.

Prabhupāda: God is personally presenting Himself, aham. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Still, people cannot understand.

Guest (1): Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate.

Prabhupāda: But they are so dull-headed, they can't understand.

Guest (1): They can't understand. They have no imagination, nothing at all, no sight.

Prabhupāda: Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati (BG 7.3). God is presenting Himself, and still, the rascals will not understand. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: ...about chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why it is happening? Why we have given everything. Our father, mother, our home, our comforts, our ideas, stereotyped, our religion, culture—everything we have given up. So don't you see the power of chanting? You may think it is bad, but see the power. Similarly, these diseased person, if they chant, it has got power to bring him in the normal condition. The power is there. It is already proved. You say it is brainwash, but the power is there. Reaction is there. That's a fact. You are admitting. So now, whether this reaction is good or bad, that you cannot judge because you are bad. But impersonally, if you judge, you see how the power is, that we were drunkards, we were woman-hunter, we were meat-eaters—we have given up. You cannot give up even smoking cigarette. So just this is the power. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Why don't you take this side? The power is there. The electric power is there, either you use it for heater or for cooler. That is your na... But the power is there. Without this power, it cannot run on, either heater or cooler. Give them this recipe(?). "You have to admit. You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual service—to render service to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then you'll be happy.

Guest (3): No, but those who are freedom fighters, they are actually on the wrong path?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone who is not serving Kṛṣṇa, he is in the wrong path.

Guest (3): But Kṛṣṇa means... Who is He? Is He a personal or impersonal?

Prabhupāda: Person. Service means person.

Guest (3): Person?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you are person, I am person, how I can serve you or how you can accept service?

Guest (3): Means what is God and Kṛṣṇa? Is there any difference?

Prabhupāda: God is person. That I am saying.

Guest (3): God is person?

Prabhupāda: Yes, like you, as you are talking with me, I am talking with you.

Guest (1): Sir, He is not infinite.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you have to understand, that although He is person, He is infinite. That you have to understand. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: And the government is so much afraid of offending one religion, so they have become secular. But there only is one religion. There is only one religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One religion, this is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), to become surrendered to God. That is religion. And they're useless. That is our religion. We are teaching surrender to God, but they have no idea that there is God. They have forgotten that "There is God, and He can talk with me. I can talk with Him." They cannot believe all these things. "Even if God is there, He cannot talk. He has no mouth, He has no leg. Nirākāra, impersonal." This is their position.

Rāmeśvara: In America there are surveys, public opinion surveys.

Prabhupāda: Just see. God has to be created by public survey. Just see how degraded.

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2).

Rāmeśvara: It's clear that for the first time these scholars are understanding the difference between the Bhagavad-gītā and the Māyāvādī conception. It's clear that now you have saved them. Previous to this, all they knew about is this impersonal concept.

Prabhupāda: That is the business of ācārya, sampradāya-rakṣana, to save the sampradāya from falling down. Sampradāya. Sampradāya rakṣana.

Rāmeśvara: After centuries of rascaldom you are giving them the first clear choice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the desire of my Guru Mahārāja. I am just trying.

Satsvarūpa: Another professor that was met is going to with ten students... I have his name, a Professor Kalewart from the University of Loeben in Belgium. He's supposed to go to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir on February lst with ten people.

Prabhupāda: He has gone?

Satsvarūpa: No, on February 1st.

Gargamuni: He should stay in our guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: So inform them, "You come."

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...taking Bhagavad-gītā as some imaginary writing, a school, thinking that.

Satsvarūpa: "A work of many hands," they say.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "Not one author."

Prabhupāda: They do not take it that Kṛṣṇa is God and He's speaking. They do not believe. "God is imperson."

Bhāgavata: His only proof was carbon dating, and that carbon dating has already been proven wrong so many times.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhāgavata: Can prajāpatis give birth to different species of animal life from their own bodies?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Prajāpatis, humans, they give birth to animals in the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Crocodile. (break) ...topless, is that freedom for the woman? The shop is open from ten to four a.m. I have seen the signboard in Texas. Is that freedom for the woman? They have no means of livelihood, and they come.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is not the meaning. The meaning is: "Everyone is searching after Me, but they, unless they come to Me, they will search one after another position." What is the purport?

Bhavānanda: "Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have him. In the transcendental..."

Prabhupāda: Brahman... Brahman is also Kṛṣṇa, and Paramātmā is also Kṛṣṇa. So if one is attached to Brahman, he's also worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning.

Satsvarūpa: Or even a demigod.

Prabhupāda: Demigod. Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. But he's searching after real Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: But what is the harm? Durgā, she is in charge of... She is Kṛṣṇa's agent, so what is the harm in worshiping Durgā?

Prabhupāda: Harm means you remain with Durgā's province. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You cannot expect to go to Kṛṣṇa's place. You have to satisfy yourself and remain within this material world. This is Durgā's place.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Unless there is personal conception, there is no question of bhakti. (break) Bhakti means the way to understand the person. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Mām means person, aham, mām. Vague idea, Brahman; distributed idea, Paramātmā; and the personal idea can be applied here. It is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It is not impersonal, not scattered. Particular person, Kṛṣṇa. When Yaśodā-mā was allowing her child to suck her breast, the child was.... And Yasoda mother was enjoying the beautiful face, patting. But all of a sudden she saw within the mouth the whole universe. Immediately she became disturbed: "Another danger is coming." She's not concerned with Kṛṣṇa's expansive, gorgeous.... She's only concern is to Kṛṣṇa, what.... She became disturbed: "What is this nonsense? Again something is coming, danger? Let me remember Nārāyaṇa. He'll save my child from all..." The personal conception is so strong that he (she) disliked to see gorgeous opulence of his (her)...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore it transcends jñāna.

Prabhupāda: That is jñāna.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he understood that busts of divine images of guru and Kṛṣṇa are not to be made. He says in New York you explained this point with reference to photographs that were used in Back to Godhead of your divine self that it was impersonal to cut off some portion of the complete worshipable form.

Prabhupāda: No, if it is not worshipable, if it is to be kept in library, that can be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "I beg to be excused for troubling Your Divine Grace on all these questions, which I always hesitate to do, but I took this liberty."

Prabhupāda: You are always allowed. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. This is one of the duties of devotees. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they're going to try... As long as they can make busts, he says, "We would like to make them larger than life size, in the monumental style, which would include your lotus feet." Full size for museums and other places. Big size. Anywhere where people want to display. But it won't be worshiped. It will be on display. So that's one letter. If you're feeling tired I can read more later on.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In the guesthouse they can remain. But they cannot hold meeting.

Brahmānanda: They were asking me that we should cooperate with them, but they are envious of us. This one woman, the way she was speaking to me, it was quite... She was attacking me. She was so envious. She was quoting Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa recommends the impersonal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why is she talking? Why talk? Everything is illusion. Then why talk?

Brahmānanda: She said there are two paths. I said, "Yes, but your path is most difficult. So why are you promoting the most difficult path to follow?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But who cares for her path?

Akṣayānanda: (indistinct) a different path.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. You remain strong. Don't be intimidated by this... That is my request.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think we should go to the next room. We will do just exactly as you say. (break) (end)