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Imperfect (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"imperfect" |"imperfection" |"imperfectional" |"imperfections" |"imperfectly" |"imperfectness" |"imperfects"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query for imperfect pages: "imperfect" or "imperfectly" or "imperfectness" or "imperfects" not "imperfect senses"@5 not "imperfect knowledge"@5

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that...

Acyutānanda: Because they don't want trespassers.

Prabhupāda: ...how you can accept their radio machine are perfect? Because it is made by imperfect person, so how it can be perfect? If the manufacturer is imperfect, how he can make perfect machine? Nothing is perfect.

Acyutānanda: Actually the United States government has a whole agency for unidentified flying objects that people have seen that they keep secret so as not to frighten the whole America thinking that visitors from other planets will come. But there are many incidents of pilots who fly around in airplanes, who see other strange-looking objects coming at them, flying at them, or people from the ground have seen many.

Devotee: One guy testified that he was picked up and taken away for four days.

Acyutānanda: Well, that was...

Prabhupāda: What they are? They are police? No. Mounted police?

Acyutānanda: Yes, mounted police.

Prabhupāda: A mounted police here?

Acyutānanda: Saber. Sword.

Devotee: Oh, it's a stick.

Acyutānanda: Oh, yes, lāṭhī, made like a stick. Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) Why they are guarding here?

Acyutānanda: I think for the horses.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Also, in their evidences by which they base their dialectic discussions, have they regarded the Vedic scriptures? They have avoided them very conveniently.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dialectic discussion. Suppose I am discussing, you are discussing something, but if I am imperfect, you are imperfect, what is the value of such discussion? That is the point. The party discussing something, whether he is perfect? If he is not perfect, then go on discussing. We first of all say that any conditioned soul is defective, and that is admitted. They say, "We are not perfect." "I think," they say. "In my opinion," they say. Never they say, the so-called scientists, "definite." And they cannot say it.

Mahamsa: That is like Dr. Frog's philosophy when they speculate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply speculation. So that kind of discussion, what is the value?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's always a hypothesis.

Prabhupāda: If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that's all. Prakṛteḥ kriya.... Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Just like children—"Ha! Sit down here"—he has to sit down. Then where is his freedom to discuss? Prakṛti says that "You sit down here. Don't go there." He has to accept. Then what is the value of discussion?

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...fective, what you can see from the observatory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they use a telescope, to make their eyes perfect.

Prabhupāda: Everything is imperfect.

Hṛdayānanda: Telescope also imperfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With the help of the telescope, then their eyes become perfect to an extent.

Prabhupāda: To ext... That is not perfect. As soon as you say, "to extent," that means imperfect. Perfect to the point, that is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Limitedly perfect.

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your philosophy will be very unpopular with the general masses, Prabhupāda, because you are condemning everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are fools and rascals.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How it can be? Because the leader who introduced this system is a rascal, so how the system can be perfect?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like you pointed out yesterday that Communism holds that everyone should have an equal right, but, you pointed out, then why do they limit that simply to human beings?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is imperfect system.

Prabhupāda: Why they become sectarian?

Madhudviṣa: They will say this is the natural development. When a system develops to this size there will be...

Prabhupāda: That you cannot change, natural development. You rascal, why you become leader? I don't require your leadership if everything is going on by nature.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no, deviate, that you have got independence to deviate from anything.

Madhudviṣa: So that is the imperfection.

Prabhupāda: That is your imperfection.

Madhudviṣa: So they will say that is the imperfection in Communism, also, that the system is perfect but we have imperfect people.

Prabhupāda: But if there is an ism where there is no such defects, why should you not accept it?

Madhudviṣa: But there is defects, though.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can point out even within our own movement the different people who don't follow.

Trivikrama: Don't follow but the system is perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they'll say their system is also perfect, but there's some that don't follow.

Trivikrama: No, but their system is not perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That you have to establish.

Bhāgavata: So it didn't save the man who created it. The man who founded the philosophy, it didn't save him.

Madhudviṣa: What does it mean the saving? He died like everyone else.

Trivikrama: Saving means saving from lust and all these things. There's so much... They're servants of their senses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone requires leader, yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.

Trivikrama: They're all servants of their senses.

Madhudviṣa: They will also say that within our movement the so-called leaders also have imperfections.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: They will say, within our movement, that the leaders also have imperfection.

Prabhupāda: No imperfection.

Trivikrama: No imperfection.

Madhudviṣa: They will say, "Yes, we can give you examples."

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Why? Why you shall accept? They will say. Because therefore they are saying, we shall accept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Prabhupāda. Here's Prabhupāda

Trivikrama: The so-called leaders, maybe they are imperfect, but the real leader, He is perfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is test of.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."

Madhudviṣa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore they... Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.

Madhudviṣa: They will say no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the... That is your ignorance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have never seen...

Prabhupāda: Now, just like blind man says, "Nobody is with eyes. Because I am blind, so everyone is blind." Ātmavat manyate jagat. That is the way.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Egocentric, yes. This is egocentric.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be Kṛṣṇa-centric.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it is perfect. The competition must remain. The others, they say, "Why competition? Make it zero." That is imperfect. But competition to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is reality.

Devotee (3): I found the verse. It's in "Ohe Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura." Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, not this verse. What is the meaning?

Devotee (3): Meaning is, "I do not find the strength to carry on alone the saṅkīrtana of the holy name of Hari. Please bless me by giving me just one drop of faith with which one can attain the great treasure of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So nobody is powerful alone. In Kṛṣṇa's service also, combine together. That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is no question of being alone anywhere, because the guru is always with one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ideal.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: When a train is in the station, when the train pulls out of the station, when you're in the train, it looks like that the station is moving and you're standing still.

Prabhupāda: Train has got different movement. But that means it has got different movement? Your analogy is imperfect.

Pañca-draviḍa: No, but if we...

Prabhupāda: You cannot compare with train because train has got different movement. But they haven't got different movement.

Pañca-draviḍa: But if this was moving at the same speed as the earth, it would appear to be fixed up. If the moon and the earth were both moving at the same speed, it would appear to be fixed up.

Prabhupāda: No. We see practically. Now we are standing. We see the sun is moving. It comes. And the moon is moving, but it is fixed up. Why it is? The moving matter is stand still, and the fixed-up matter is moving.

Pañca-draviḍa: Actually, it's we who are moving. The sun is...

Prabhupāda: But my speed is the same.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has criticized mauna-vrata, like that. They have got so.... (break) ...scientists were not perfect in the past, they are not perfect now, and they will continue to remain imperfect. He has written clearly.

Dr. Patel: So this, our science, is a science of māyā. Not the science of spirit. Am I right?

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: The science deals with all the earthly things.

Prabhupāda: Even an earthly thing, that does not mean you shall commit mistake. Two plus two equal to four, that is earthly thing. But if you make two plus two equal to five...

Dr. Patel: One.

Prabhupāda: That is not...

Dr. Patel: If you make two plus two is equal to one, then that is spiritual. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from spiritual, they are talking and again changing. Sometimes they say two plus two equal to four, sometimes they say two plus two equal to five, and then next they say two plus two equal to three. This is going on. So where is you truth? (break) ...the mūḍhas.

Dr. Patel: No, no, no, you are not.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The Christian people say like that, that "We cannot become pious. We.... Let us go on doing all nonsense, and Christ will suffer." Is that very good?

Guest (3): I agree with you, see. I really do. But what I'm saying is I believe that we're not all perfect, and we're working for perfection.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that what is the difficulty to become perfect?

Guest (3): Well, we have to learn and...

Prabhupāda: That means we are nonsense. If there is no difficulty to become perfect and still we remain imperfect, that means we are nonsense.

Guest (3): I see, well, okay.

Prabhupāda: That means you are first-class nonsense.

Guest (3): I see. All right, well...

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty? Christ's picture is there. Suppose we have got our picture, Kṛṣṇa. So all right, don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. But you have got picture of Christ, and you can see that he is being crucified. The cross is your symbol.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: Flesh means material, temporary, imperfect.

Guest (2): I'm not perfect. This is not temporary.

Prabhupāda: So you bring some flesh from slaughterhouse and glorify it.

Guest (2): Could I ask a question? I was told, if I'm not right, that down there in a section of your temple you worship the workmanship of flesh. A man made it.

Prabhupāda: We never do that. Who told you? Who is the rascal?

Guest (2): Well, it was one of your followers.

Guru-kṛpā: He's interpreting that to be the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-kṛpā: That is his interpretation of the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Of Deity?

Guru-kṛpā: That is his interpretation of what is the Deity, that it is man-made, matter.

Guest (2): Is it?

Prabhupāda: You do think that, that the form of God is man-made?

Guest (2): Well, all I can.... I just.... That's my feeling.

Prabhupāda: That may be your feeling, but that does not mean that is our feeling.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise why they complain? They're doubtful.

Guru-kṛpā: Asaṁśayaṁ samagram.

Prabhupāda: That.... Yes. That verse?

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
(BG 7.1)

Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.

Guru-kṛpā: (break) ...angry about was how they can come to Your Divine Grace and be so puffed up and be insulting.

Prabhupāda: How they are haughty, insulting.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, general. But you know how to make general mass of people happy. That example we give, that the whole body.... You can make the whole body happy simply by supplying food to the stomach. That is the best way. And if you want to make happy every part of the body, individual, that will never be successful. You must know where to touch. Just like the huge machine is going on by the expert manipulation of the pilot. He is pushing one.... Works. Immediately the plane becomes.... It is.... So you must know where to touch. If.... I am layman, I am put into that, then, instead of putting here, I shall put my here, and then it will go down. "Ohhh." So finished. So this is nature's way, that you supply food to the stomach, and the energy will be distributed every part. You supply water to the root of the tree, it will be supplied everywhere. That you must know. Otherwise, if you.... Just like if you do not know, a expert, not expert, so he's advised, "Give to, the food to the stomach." "And in where?" "No, in the hole of the body." If he does not, which hole, then he will put somewhere, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here. It will never act. Then you must know the science how to make everyone happy. If you do not know that, then your imperfect imagination will never be done, and that has become everywhere. Why there is difference of opinion even both of the communistic countries? Why there is difference of opinion between Russia and China? Because both of you do not know how to make everyone happy. That is the point.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But why? Your imagination. You have not gone throughout the whole universe. You cannot say. You are imperfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say neither you have gone, so how can you know...

Prabhupāda: No, I have got authority, you have got no authority.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, simply some story books, they say.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Whatever it may be, I can present some literature, but you have nothing. You rascal. (laughs) Whatever it may be, I have got something, but you have nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember studying in college about this, that we were studying Indian art, and they showed pictures of people on other planets and all these things, the demigods, and the teacher said "These are mythologies of India."

Rāmeśvara: Just like the Greek mythologies.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we have got books, and these books are authorized, they are accepted by authorities, but what you have got?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have their fairy tales, they call it, imaginary tales.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we have got something. I may believe it. That's all. You believe your imagination, we believe this. That's all. Finished.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: After all, imitation is imitation. Sometimes it is perfect imitation.... Perfect cannot be. But as far as possible. But imitation is there. And the material life is imitation. Because material life means we want to imitate God. That is material life. God is all-powerful; we want to become all-powerful. That is material life. And the struggle for existence. Because we cannot become God, it is impossible, but artificially, they are trying to become God. And that is struggle for existence. So material life means imitation. Everyone is struggling to become God. Even when one is so-called liberated, self-realized, just like the Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also writing "Self, my own self," but "I am independent." That is the material disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He's always thinking that "I am independent," which he's not. He's completely under the laws of nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27), but he's thinking "I'm independent." That is foolishness. They'll not accept knowledge given by God; they'll manufacture knowledge. That is material disease. And that knowledge is also uncertain. One stalwart man of knowledge is speaking, "I think, I believe," and another stalwart is saying, "No, no, I think, I believe." What is the meaning of this "I think, I believe"? We say "You are all rascals. Whatever you believe, whatever you think, they are all rascaldom." That's all. This is our decision. There are many persons, they are simply saying, "I think, I believe," and we say, "You all people who are thinking independently, believing independently, you are all rascals." That's all. So far our position is concerned, we never say "I think." Whatever we say, we support it immediately by some quotation of the Vedic literature. That is our process. So this morning I was talking with Hari-śauri that our test is this: that because it is written in the Bhagavad-gītā that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15), so anyone who is not surrendering to God, he's thinking independently, so he is either miscreant, a rascal, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, all knowledge taken by māyā, in these groups. Our test is very simple. As soon as we see somebody is not thinking as God thinks, as Kṛṣṇa thinks, we take him in either of these groups. That is our test. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ—we see, practically, they do not speak or they do not think as Kṛṣṇa says, but he's thinking independently. Therefore he is mūḍha. His thinking is imperfect, so therefore, he's mūḍha. And because his thinking is imperfect, another mūḍha comes, he says that "I think like this." This is their controversy. So many independent thinking philosophers have spoiled the broth. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Real knowledge is lacking. Hmm? Anyone, any questions? Yes? Just attend to the question.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's representative means the representative says the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me," and the representative says "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And because he delivers the real knowledge, he's as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. The spiritual master may appear to be just like a common man, but he is to be respected as God, because he delivers the real message of God. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He does not manufacture anything. That is very easy. If I carry your message and educate people in that way, then there is no difficulty for me. Everything is there. Why shall I go to manufacture something imperfect? The perfect thing is already there. Simply I have to carry. A post peon—the money order is there, he has to simply carry and deliver to the person. And if he gets at time of need, he thanks the peon, "Oh, you have saved my life." It is like that. The message is already there. You have to simply deliver to the suffering humanity. Then he'll be relieved. And because he delivers the real reality, therefore he's worshiped as God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Ācāryaṁ māṁ hi vijānīyāt. Kṛṣṇa also says ācārya is..., "I am ācārya." Because when there is, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.

Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"

Rāmeśvara: If I have a bigger brain than someone else, and if I give my...

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.

Hari-śauri: "My idea may not be perfect, but it's better than yours," that's their idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is not your secure position. One child is older than the, another child. That does not mean he is a grown-up.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore this verse is explained to you, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21). So we have to understand through supersenses, not this blunt senses.

Richard: Right, and I think...

Prabhupāda: These are imperfect.

Richard: And I think that in the Western world, I don't know about the Eastern world, in the Western world, that understanding is called faith.

Rāmeśvara: No, what Prabhupāda is explaining is.... Just like now you are seeing me through your blunt senses. By the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you awaken a different type of senses, called transcendental senses, and it is just as real as the blunt sense perception, except it is perfect sense perception, whereas your physical senses are conditioned, limited. There are transcendental senses.

Richard: Yes, but all the input goes into the mind, right?

Rāmeśvara: No, these are actual sense perceptions. "The soul is sentient, thou has proved."

Richard: Okay.

Rāmeśvara: Just like your body has senses, the soul also has senses, and the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and taking the spiritual prasādam, seeing the Deity in the temple and hearing this Vedic knowledge, that awakens the soul, and thus you can experience the sense perception of the soul, the knowledge of God through the soul, sense perception. You can see God, when you're very pure. And that's a fact, not faith.

Prabhupāda: There are five stages of ascending to come to the right conclusion. This, this is.... Just like pratyakṣa, directly, you do not see the sun on the sky, but the same example, if you phone your friend, "Where is the sun?" then he'll say, "Yes, here is the sun." So this is called parokṣa, mean you get the knowledge by other sources. Your direct sources, you cannot see, but you get from other sources, you understand, "Yes, sun is there in the sky."

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Why not? He's the most beautiful. Otherwise, why people are attracted? There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā: kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham (Bs. 5.30); barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. He has got one peacock feather on His head and He's blackish, but wonderfully beautiful. These words are used. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya. He's so beautiful that thousands of Cupids cannot be compared with His beauty. Cupid is understood to be the most beautiful person within this universe. You know Cupid? Yes. He enchants by beauty. But Kṛṣṇa's beauty is so great that millions of beauty, kandarpa or Cupid, cannot be compared with Him. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.30). It is a question of attraction. It is not a question of black and white. Attraction. So unless Kṛṣṇa is beautiful, why He has got so many millions of devotees? This very word is kandarpa-koṭi. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. His blackness is compared with the black cloud. Asita-ambuda, ambuda means the cloud. The black cloud is full of water. When there is black cloud in the sky, you can be sure that the rain is going to fall down. Not the white cloud. White cloud means no water. Is it not? So you understand this philosophy and add water to the suffering humanity. They are suffering in the burning, blazing fire of material existence. So blazing fire can be extinguished when the water falls from the sky, not by your fire brigade. When there is blazing fire in the forest, it is beyond your control. You cannot get there fire brigade. So these small attempts of fire brigade is useless to extinguish the blazing fire of this material existence. The water must come from the cloud. That is by Kṛṣṇa's grace. You have no control over the cloud. But that water wanted. Not your fire brigade water when there is all around blazing fire. The small fire brigade-(imitates bell) dung-dung-dung-dung-dung. It can vibrate very loudly-dung-dung-dung—"I'm going to, going to," but they'll go when everything finished. That is practical. I have seen in India. There was a fire in a house, and they came late, when the business is finished. And still they're insisting, "We shall pour some water." (laughter) Everyone asked them, that "What is the use of?" "No, this is our system." (laughter) The house is burnt into ashes, and they are looking the formality, "Yes, we must put some water." So that they can write in their books, "Here we attended the fire and we have..." (laughter) This cheating is going on. In every problem, this kind of cheating is going on. Official, that's all. The same example, you ask to the charity taker of welfare activities. The fire is going on, but officially the government satisfied, "Yes, we are pouring water." So what is the use of pouring water if the fire is going on? But officially, that's all. We must see that the purpose is being carried. No. The house is burnt into ashes, but we are satisfied that our fire brigade man has poured some water, that's all. They do not know that they cannot do any benefit to anyone by this imperfect process. If the whole money of the government is given to us, we can show result within six months how it is beneficial. Will the government give us money? (pause) Actually, people do not want to trust in God. That is the real fact. But this writing of slogan is a formal (indistinct). At the present moment, nobody has got any idea of God nor faith in God. What do you think?

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So you kindly give little attention to this movement. It will solve all the problems. You have read some of our books? No.

Jackie Vaughn: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We have all answers to the problems in the Bhagavad-gītā, but who is hearing us? The problems and the solutions, they are all mentioned. They are given very nicely. But we do not take it. We create our own solution, imperfect solution.

Jackie Vaughn: I'm struggling.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is struggling. Just like you pour water on the leaf of the tree, and still it will fall down. He's perplexed that "I am giving water to the leaf every day. How is it that it is dying?" But he never thinks that "I have not done properly; therefore the leaf is dying." He does not know what is the proper way. So things, if they are not done properly, it will not produce the desired result. That is going on. You have seen our Deities? Our Deity, Kṛṣṇa?

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes there's a question that I'm asked, that we say we're imperfect so we have to receive perfect knowledge, but they say if you're always imperfect, then how can you know that it's perfect, what you're hearing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are receiving knowledge from the perfect. Just like a child does not believe, a boy, he has not seen his father. He does not believe that there is father. But if the mother says, "Yes, my dear child, there is father," so then his knowledge is perfect. With his imperfect knowledge, he was disbelieving that there is father, but when the mother says, he has to accept it. Then his knowledge becomes perfect. He has not seen who is father. That's a fact, maybe. And, but the mother is authority. She says, "Here, my dear child. There is father." Then his knowledge perfect. So we may be imperfect, the child is imperfect, but when he gets the knowledge from the perfect source, mother, then it is perfect. Similarly, we, we never say that we are perfect. If you are perfect, then why you are learning? You are trying to become perfect. So our process is that we are receiving knowledge from the perfect. Therefore whatever we say, it is perfect. A child does not know, "What is this, father?" The father says "My dear child, it is called microphone." So after that, if he takes it and declares to anyone, "This is microphone," that is perfect, although he's a child. Because he's learned it from the perfect father. This is our process. We don't speculate. We don't speculate whether there is father or not. That is not our process. We ask from the mother, "Mother, they say I have got father. I have never seen." So mother says, "Yes, my dear child, you have got a father." Then finish. Knowledge is perfect. And the child cannot challenge, "I have never seen my father. How can I believe you?" This is nonsense. Your mother says, that is fact. That's all, finished. You cannot challenge mother: "Mother, I have never seen my father; how can I believe?" That is nonsense! This is going on. "I have never seen God. Can you show me God?" This rascaldom is going on. First of all you must know you are a rascal. How can you see God? You hear from the authority who knows God. That is the injunction.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: But the modern astronomy, they do not say like that.

Jayādvaita: No. They don't say it is moving around. They don't say that it's moving around the polestar. They have some other explanation.

Prabhupāda: That means they're imperfect.

Mādhavānanda: They say that it's fixed. They say the polestar is fixed, but it doesn't revolve around. They say everything moves, but the polestar is...

Prabhupāda: Polestar is fixed, that is fact. And all.... It is like pivot. Everyone round, round. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). This tree is spread downwards. The root is upward.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists also say all of the stars are moving around. But they don't see the earth as moving around.

Prabhupāda: Why not? What is this nonsense? If all the stars can move, what is the earth? That is their nonsense. Only earth is populated, everywhere is vacant. (laughter) In the Bhāgavata it is said every planet is full of living entities. Jana-pūrṇa. Perhaps I have explained, in my recent.... jana-kīrṇa. Jana-kīrṇa means full of living entities.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Then there cannot be good government. Americans say they trust in God, but without the science of God, that trust is simply fictitious. First take the science of God very seriously, then put your trust in Him. They do not know what God is, but we do. We actually trust in God. They are manufacturing their own way of governing, and that is their defect. They will never be successful. They are imperfect, and if they go on manufacturing their own ways and means they will remain imperfect. There will always be revolutions, one after another. There will be no peace."

Reporter: "Who determines the regulative principles of religion that people should follow?"

Prabhupāda: "God. God is perfect. He does that. According to the Vedic version, God is the leader of all living entities. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We are different from Him because He is all-perfect and we are not. We are very small. We have the qualities of God, but in very small quantity. Therefore we have only a little knowledge, that's all. With a little knowledge you can manufacture a 747 airplane, but you cannot manufacture a mosquito."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. The kṣatriyas ruled the government in Vedic times. When there was a war, the king was the first to fight. Just like your George Washington. He fought when there was a war. But what kind of president is ruling now? When there is a war he sits very securely and telephones orders. He's not fit to be president. When there is war the president should be the first to come forward and lead the battle."

Reporter: "But if man is small and imperfect, how can he execute God's perfect orders for a perfect government?"

Prabhupāda: "Although you may be imperfect, because you are carrying out my order, you become perfect. You have accepted me as your leader, and I accept God as my leader. In this way society can be governed perfectly."

Reporter: "So good government means first of all to accept the Supreme Being as the real ruler of the government."

Prabhupāda: "You cannot directly accept the Supreme Being. You must accept the servants of the Supreme Being, the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas, devotees of the Lord, as your guides. The government men are the kṣatriyas, the second class. The kṣatriyas should take advice from the brāhmaṇas or Vaiṣṇavas and make laws accordingly. The vaiśyas should carry out the kṣatriyas' orders in practice, and the śūdras should work under these three orders, then society will be perfect." The end of the article.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, always. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). They are thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna:

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo
yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api
nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat
śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ
(SB 1.5.11)

"On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the pastimes of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc. of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest." Purport. "It is a qualification of the great thinkers to pick up the best even from the worst. It is said that the intelligent man should pick up nectar from a stock of poison, should accept gold even from a filthy place, should accept a good and qualified wife even from an obscure family, and should accept a good lesson even from a man or from a teacher who comes from the untouchables. These are some of the ethical instructions for everyone in every place without exception. But a saint is far above the level of an ordinary man, and he is always absorbed in glorifying the Supreme Lord, because by broadcasting the holy name and fame of the Supreme Lord the polluted atmosphere of the world will change, and as a result of propagating the transcendental literatures like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, people will become sane in their transactions. While preparing this commentation on this particular stanza of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we have a crisis before us. Our neighboring friend China has attacked the border of India with a militaristic spirit. We have practically no business in the political field, yet we see that previously there were both China and India, and they both lived peacefully for centuries without ill feeling. The reason is that they lived those days in an atmosphere of God consciousness, and every country over the surface of the world was God fearing, pure hearted and simple, and there was no question of political diplomacy. There was no cause of quarrel between the two countries of China and India over land which is not very suitable for habitation, and certainly there was no cause for fighting on this issue. But due to the age of quarrel, Kali, which we have discussed, there is always a chance of quarrel on slight provocation. This is due not to the issue in question but to the polluted atmosphere of this age. Systematically there is propaganda by a section of people to stop glorification of the name and fame of the Supreme Lord. Therefore there is great need for disseminating the message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam all over the world. It is the duty of every responsible Indian to broadcast the transcendental message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam throughout the world to do all the supermost good, as well as to bring about the desired peace in the world. Because India has failed in her duty by neglecting this responsible work, there is so much quarrel and trouble all over the world. We are confident that if the transcendental message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is received only by the leading men of the world, certainly there will be a change of heart, and naturally the people in general will follow them. The mass of people in general are tools in the hands of modern politicians and leaders of the people. If there is a change of heart of the leaders only, certainly there will be a radical change in the atmosphere of the world. We know that our honest attempt to present this great literature conveying transcendental messages for reviving the God consciousness of the people in general and respiritualizing the world atmosphere is fraught with many difficulties. Our presenting this matter in adequate language, especially a foreign language, will certainly fail, and there will be so many literary discrepancies despite our honest attempt to present it in the proper way, but we are sure that with all our faults in this connection, the seriousness of the subject matter will be taken into consideration, and the leaders of society will still accept this, due to its being an honest attempt to glorify the almighty God. When there is fire in a house, the inmates of the house go out to get help from the neighbors, who may be foreigners, and yet without knowing the language, the victims of the fire express themselves and the neighbors understand the need, even though not expressed in the same language. The same spirit of cooperation is needed to broadcast this transcendental message of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam throughout the polluted atmosphere of the world. After all, it is a technical science of spiritual values, and thus we are concerned with the techniques and not with the language. If the techniques of this great literature are understood by the people of the world, there will be success. When there are too many materialistic activities by the people in general all over the world, there is no wonder that a person or nation attacks another person or nation on slight provocation. That is the rule of this age of Kali, or quarrel. The atmosphere is already polluted with corruption of all description, and everyone knows it well. There are so many unwanted literatures full of materialistic ideas of sense gratification. The people in general want to read. That is a natural instinct. But because their minds are polluted, they want such literatures. Under the circumstances, transcendental literature like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will not only diminish the activities of the corrupt minds of the people in general, but also it will supply food for their hankering after reading some interesting literature. In the beginning they may not like it, because one suffering from jaundice is reluctant to take sugar candy, but we should know that sugar candy is the only remedy for the jaundice. Similarly, let there be systematic propaganda for popularizing reading of the Bhagavad-gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which will act like sugar candy for the jaundicelike condition of sense gratification. When men have a taste for this literature, the other literatures, which are catering poison to society, will then automatically cease. We are sure therefore that everyone in the human society will welcome Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, even though it is now presented with so many faults, for it is recommended by Śrī Nārada, who has very kindly appeared in this chapter."

Prabhupāda: So what other literatures say? There is not one. In our society we do not read even newspaper, is it not? Do we? Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only in context to our preaching work.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but generally. We do not derive any benefit from those. People read it, especially in the Western counties. If there is no newspaper it is hell. I told you this story? Yes. You can repeat that.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you have called the politicians representative of Hiraṇyakaśipu, they are trying to become immortal. Just like devotees, but without...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this... There are two kinds of men already described, daiva asura eva ca. These two kinds of activities will go on. This is material world. You cannot find out cent percent perfect man. That is not possible. There are a class of men, imperfect, will be there. But it is being described who is imperfect and who is perfect. That you have to select. You cannot clear this material world of imperfect persons. That is not possible. There will be remain, but you must know who is perfect and who is imperfect. And make your choice, whether you want to remain imperfect or want to make progress to become perfect. That is up to you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems almost like a contradiction in one sense, that prabhavanti, that they flourish and at the same time, ksayaya.

Prabhupāda: Prabhavanty, materially, materially. Just like when you go to a modern city and say, "Oh, how developed," prabhavanty. But what kind of prabhavanty? That is next word, jagato 'hitāḥ, to destroy this world. So their prabhavanty in the opposite direction. That is not prabhavanty actually. Prabhavanty in the material sense, but what is the purpose, what is the end? Jagato 'hitāḥ. There are two kinds of progress, to hell, to heaven.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They have not done. Has everyone got the president's power? How do they say that you have done. Everyone equal? That is not possible. These are imagination. Mano-rathenasato dhāvato bahiḥ Everything is there in the Bhāgavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. These rascals who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no value. They are simply speculating within the mind, mano-rathena, and they'll act all abominable, because they are on the mental platform. I'll say "I think like this," you'll say "I think like this." And nobody, none of us perfect. Then what is the use of your thinking like this or thinking like that? Both of them are imperfect. So if so many rascals sit together, or dogs, they simply bark, that's all. It has no value. So our propaganda is that "Don't remain in the dog platform. Come to the human platform." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There you will get, "If we all dogs meet together and pass a resolution, then it will be organized." That is democracy. Democracy means like that. The dog is kept as dog, and they are assembled together to take their votes. What is the value of their vote? They are dogs. I've publicly said this, where?

Devotees: Melbourne.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne. The United Nations is an assembly of barking dogs, I've said that, (laughs) and they published it.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Where is that boy? You are hearing?

Devotee (2): Yes, Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Knowledge of the transcendental science of the Upaniṣads can free one from the entanglement of existence in the material world, and when thus liberated, one can be elevated to the spiritual kingdom of the Supreme Personality of Godhead by advancement in spiritual life. The beginning of spiritual enlightenment is realization of impersonal Brahman. Such realization is effected by gradual negation of material variegatedness. Impersonal Brahman realization is the partial, distant experience of the Absolute Truth that one achieves through the rational approach. It is compared to one's seeing a hill from a distance and taking it to be a smoky cloud. A hill is not a smoky cloud, but it appears to be one from a distance because of our imperfect vision. In imperfect or smoky realization of the Absolute Truth, spiritual variegatedness is conspicuous by its absence. This experience is therefore called advaita-vāda, or realization of the oneness of the Absolute. The impersonal glowing effulgence of Brahman consists only of the personal bodily rays of the Supreme Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Since Śrī Gaurasundara, or Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is identical with Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, the Brahman effulgence consists of the rays of His transcendental body. Similarly, the Supersoul, which is called the Paramātmā, is a plenary representation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The antaryāmi, the Supersoul in everyone's heart, is the controller of all living entities. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, wherein Lord Kṛṣṇa says sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am situated in everyone's heart." (BG 15.15) Bhagavad-gītā also states; bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), indicating that the Supreme Lord, acting in His expansion as the Supersoul, is the proprietor of everything. Similarly, the Brahma-saṁhitā states, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham: (Bs. 5.35) the Lord is present everywhere within the heart of every living entity and within each and every atom as well. Thus by this Supersoul feature the Lord is all-pervading. Furthermore, Lord Caitanya is also the master of all wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation because He is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself. He is described as pūrṇa, or complete. In the feature of Lord Caitanya, the Lord is an ideal renouncer, just as Śrī Rāma was an ideal king. He accepted the order of sannyāsa and exemplified exceedingly wonderful principles in His own life. No one can compare to Him in the order of sannyāsa. Although in Kali-yuga acceptance of the sannyāsa order is generally forbidden, Lord Caitanya accepted it because He is complete in renunciation. Others cannot imitate Him but can only follow in His footsteps as far as possible. Those who are unfit for this order of life are strictly forbidden by the injunctions of the śāstras to accept it. Lord Caitanya, however, is complete in renunciation as well as all other opulences. He is therefore the highest principle of the Absolute Truth. By an analytical study of the truth of Lord Caitanya, one will find that He is not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa; no one is greater than or even equal to Him. In Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) 'O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me.' Thus it is here confirmed that there is no truth higher than Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. The impersonal Brahman is the goal of those who cultivate the study of books of transcendental knowledge, and the Supersoul is the goal of those who perform the yoga practices. One who knows the Supreme Personality of Godhead surpasses realization of both Brahman and Paramātmā, because Bhagavān is the ultimate platform of absolute knowledge. The Personality of Godhead is the complete form of sac-cidananda (full life, knowledge and bliss). By realization of the sat portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited existence), one realizes the impersonal Brahman of the Lord. By realization of the cit portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited knowledge) one can realize the localized aspect of the Lord, Paramātmā. But neither of these partial realizations of the Complete Whole can help one realize ānanda, or complete bliss. Without such realization of ānanda, knowledge of the Absolute Truth is incomplete. This verse of Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is confirmed by a parallel statement in the Tattva-sandarbha by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. In the Eighth Part of Tattva-sandarbha it is said that the Absolute Truth is sometimes approached as impersonal Brahman, which, although spiritual, is only a partial representation of the Absolute Truth. Nārāyaṇa, the predominating Deity in Vaikuṇṭha, is to be known as an expansion of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the object of the transcendental love of all living entities."

Prabhupāda: So is it clear? (laughs) It is not so easy. Therefore it is postgraduate.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can these things be understood theoretically, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or is realization required?

Prabhupāda: Realization required. What is the use of theoretical knowledge?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, can realization be had through service without theoretical understanding?

Prabhupāda: This whole science is understood through service only. Everything becomes revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (BRS. 1.2.234). Revelation. Everything is revelation. Unless one is very sincere servant, there is no revelation.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): They want to do it, Prabhupāda, but they cannot.

Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do. Then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemical, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be..., is combination of chemicals. Give this challenge to these rascals, that "Life is... If it is combination of chemicals, why don't you do it, the simple thing?" Yes?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal. That is criminal, he is to be punished. Unlawful detention. But they do not know the laws of nature, how it is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The law of nature is working very silently, subtle. But they do not know. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascal is so fool that he thinks that "I can do everything, whatever I like." Similarly, killing of animal. "Life is eternal," one can argue, "then what is wrong? Even I kill, the soul is alive." No, the same argument that this soul was to live in a particular type of body under the laws of nature, and you have checked, and he has to take again a similar body to fulfill the duration. Therefore you have done criminality. I have got lease for live in this room for certain period. If prior to the expiry of the lease, if the landlord drives me away, that is illegal. He will be punished.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You can get a dead animal's body, but what is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They claim that many species are extinct.

Prabhupāda: How they are extinct?

Hari-śauri: Well, like, they say that within modern history,

Prabhupāda: First thing is they are all imperfect speculators. So what is the value of their sport? We don't take any value of it.

Rūpānuga: They don't know where these animals are, that's all.

Prabhupāda: They, simply like child, they are speculating. If he's imperfect, then what is the value of his speculation? There is no value.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But then what happens at the time of partial devastation? At the end of Manu, the partial devastation, what happens to the species?

Prabhupāda: Happens means these different ways become destroyed, but again, during creation, they come in.

Hari-śauri: The same species.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But their calculating mind, in whatever you explain you have to give reference to the śāstra, and they will say it is, what is called? Myth, mythology. They'll refuse immediately that thing. But you have no other source to explain. And they will take it immediately, "It is all mythology."

Rūpānuga: (to Sadāpūta:) What about that chart you were working on comparing the ages, the Vedic ages and the scientists ages? Do you have that? Can we talk about that now? We should ask Śrīla Prabhupāda if there's any real parallel there. One thing we were thinking, the way they talk about time in past ages, Sadāpūta put the Vedic ages side by side with their idea and saw some comparison there, it looks like there may be some...

Prabhupāda: That is the... They will take our idea as mythology, and we shall take their idea as most imperfect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we can argue on scientific...

Prabhupāda: This is the position. Now you try to argue, but they will take everything we propose as mythology, and we will take, "Because you are rascal, whatever you say, it is all rascaldom," that's all. This is the position. "You are imperfect, rascals. So whatever you say it is all rascaldom." That is our position. And as soon as we say from śāstra, they will say it is all mythology. Then how you'll meet? This is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now we can argue that mythology is not so serious. I think we can argue on very sound logic, pointing out that their measurement of the ages are also based not on very scientific background, but there are many mistakes, and in fact there are several reports that... (end)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Has there ever been debates on the authenticity of modern science, or is this the first time modern science has been challenged in the world?

Prabhupāda: India, Vedic civilization never cared for anything which is searched out by imperfect human beings. They never cared for it. Because he knows the man who is searching after, he's imperfect. Whatever he'll do, that is imperfect. Therefore neglect it. That is Vedic civilization. Śruti-pramāṇa: whether it is evident from the śrutis, from the Vedas. Otherwise, they reject it.

Vipina: Prabhupāda, if spiritual life and Kṛṣṇa are stronger than māyā, then how is it that religion was ever overcome to the extent it is now? In Kali-yuga it's so much neglected, whereas in past ages we learn that it wasn't neglected. How is it that māyā got such a stronghold?

Prabhupāda: There is a time, just like young man and old man. Old man is dwindling, young man is growing. It is a question of time. Kali-yuga is bad time. Therefore māyā has got chance to flourish.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: First try to point out as many as you can. And our view is they are wholesale mistaken. They are imperfect, speculating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?

Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.

Rūpānuga: In the day of, one day of Brahmā, there are fourteen Manus. And in the course of creation, re-creation of the same species from the previous day—they are re-creating the same species—it takes, there's some time, maybe one Manu, there's some species that are finished, but the next Manu...

Prabhupāda: That doesn't mean time. What is this Manu?

Rūpānuga: No, no, I'm saying this is what really happened, right? So we were thinking that we could show one day, this is one day, one day of Brahmā...

Prabhupāda: No, you do not think what is actually there, you can say. You do not be a speculator.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is, but we have taken that they are talking all nonsense. And whatever we present, they'll take it as mythology.

Rūpānuga: But like Mādhava Prabhu pointed out, we have to make some explanation. We should explain because they...

Prabhupāda: That you do, but the position is like this. Our conclusion is that whatever they are saying, that is imperfect. That is not possible. And that is a fact. Therefore they change, after fifty years, they change. Because it's speculation. Therefore we say totally they are wrong, and they will take totally "From mythology," like that, this is going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now one aspect in that, now in Christian group also, some are trying to preach that these things are created by God, but they have a problem there.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So long. As soon as there is five thousand years, they will (indistinct). The Christian theory used to say that the world is flat. So what is the value of their words? There is no value. You do not try to compromise with others.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we are not compromising with anybody.

Prabhupāda: You present your own as it is Bhāgavatam, try to explain them to your best capacity scientifically. If you bring this, bring that... All of them are imperfect. So what is the use of wasting time with something which is imperfect?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate that those points are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate, though, that those points are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: That you can do, but you must know they are all imperfect. Five thousand years! We can give history of millions and millions of years. And what was before five thousand years, there was no, nothing? What is their (indistinct), reply?

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: What Manus? There is seventy-two into 432,000 years. So they are calculating five thousand years... What is this nonsense?

Rūpānuga: No, the Christians calculate, but the others, they go back more than that time. The scientists... These Christians are not accepted so much as.... They're not included in scientific knowledge; they are considered something else.

Prabhupāda: My point is that the Christian theory is also imperfect and the scientists also imperfect.

Rūpānuga: We can show both.

Prabhupāda: If you can show that, that is all right.

Rūpānuga: That is why we made this chart...

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Rūpānuga: ...to show...

Prabhupāda: Show them imperfect. That will be... (break) Actually they're imperfect. Just like they say five thousand years, a ludicrous. They, and the scientists say that the stratum of earth, what is called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Strata, layers.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it takes millions of years. So how they say five thousand years?

Sadāpūta: Well, no one really believes the Christians.

Rūpānuga: They are laughed at actually. The scientists, how far do they say? Five hundred million?

Sadāpūta: The scientists say it goes back six hundred million years.

Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect. If we study Brahmā's day, it will be all... Brahmā's day is, one day equal to forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by thousand, that is Brahmā's one day. So thirty days, one month, and twelve months equal to year, such hundred years. Your mathematics will fail to figure out. Is it not? (laughter)

Rūpānuga: There is a slide of this, but we did not show you. The idea is that this is the beginning of Brahmā's day up to present, Vaivasvata Manu. This is the beginning of time according to them. They can't explain anything up to here. They say here, in the middle of the day of Raivata Manu, they begin their Cambrian Age.

Prabhupāda: No, why Raivata Manu? They are imperfect.

Rūpānuga: We're here, and this is the previous Manu, and before him the other Manu, and it's back here that they say their geological records begin.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): You were saying that everything they say is wrong, and that is our position. We take that position, that everything they say is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are imperfect, they are speculating.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the value of your speculation? If you are on the wrong platform, then what is the value of your speculation? You have got imperfect senses, you cheat, with the microscope or binocular, but it is manufactured by you. How it is perfect?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is one of our reasonings, that the senses...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are born imperfect, and you are manufacturing some measuring... So that is also imperfect. And you are depending by seeing through the binocular. How it is perfect?

Devotee (1): They've convinced us that these machines are accurate.

Prabhupāda: How it is accurate? It is manufactured by you. You are a fool.

Devotee (1): But some things they say, like the rays...

Prabhupāda: They say, they may say, but first of all, what is the position of the conditioned soul? Four defects. You must commit mistakes, you must be illusioned, his senses are imperfect, and he's a cheater. These are the four defects of conditioned souls. So how the conditioned soul can give perfect knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is our conclusion.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Go, you have got... You have seen... Go to all the planets. Where can you go? Why you make attempt for sending... (indistinct). At night we see millions of planet. Go there. This is material, there is no question of spiritual world. Go there. If you've got any machine. Why you attempt? Go, as you go from here to London, go there. We can see there is... Why there is attempt? That means your instrument is also insufficient. And you are very proud of your having instrument. Where is that instrument, go with that instrument. Imperfect. Everything is imperfect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Two problems in man's history is this: one is this astronomical problem and the second is the origin of life.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And we have to... Touching (?) these three worlds.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So my feeling is that in about fifty years something is going to be settled.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) It's already settled. They should accept the (indistinct). It's already settled.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially about this origin of life business.

Prabhupāda: That is also settled. Everything is settled. But these rascals must admit. That's all.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: They say "Yes, we are finite, but we can work together, combinedly together, and make great progress, scientific progress. All working together, every nation."

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything which is beyond your power. But you are limited, your power is limited, that you must agree. Your power is not unlimited. You are finite. That you must admit.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Then they say "Yes, we may be limited and our inductive process may be imperfect, but, you may criticize, but you have to show us something better."

Prabhupāda: I may not show, but as I give you example, that you have manufactured 747 and God has manufactured mosquito. You do that. We are... I am layman, but I see there is another, better manufacturer than you. I may be layman, but I can see that you cannot do it. If you say you can do it, then you are rascal. I must say that you are rascal. First of all do, then speak. You take your credit, as much as you have done. But if you want to take the place of God, then we must slap you right and left. (laughter) We cannot give better credit than God to anyone. That is our business. Asamordhva. There is nobody equal to God, nobody is greater than God. This is our preaching. So you cannot claim equal to God. No question of becoming greater than God. You cannot become even equal to God. You are always under. You admit it, then we have no quarrel with you. You admit that "Yes, we are under God," then we are friends.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś?

Prabhupāda: Ah,

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
(CC Madhya 17.133)

This is the realization of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, when you understand that nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, this name, Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of chanting. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. Full representation or full Kṛṣṇa. Pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto 'bhinnatvāt, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's anything. Just like we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. If you think this is a statue of Kṛṣṇa, it is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you are not worshiping properly. He is Kṛṣṇa. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-mati, these are instructions. So anyway, we may be in the imperfect stage of devotional service, but if you follow the instruction, then gradually you come to the perfectional stage. There is no hopelessness. Continue. It is not that immediately one becomes perfect. But if you continue with the process, then you'll become perfect.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that? Sa-doṣam api na tyajet (BG 18.48). Even your profession is infected with so many faults, you don't agree, don't give it up. He's giving the example: the fire is so nice, purify, still there is smoke. So in the material world, whatever you do, there will be some fault. If you want faultless action, that is not possible. Therefore we cannot give up your occupational duty even there are some faults. Sa-doṣam api na tyajet.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

śreyān sva-dharmo viguṇaḥ
para-dharmāt svanuṣṭhitāt
svabhāva-niyataṁ karma
kurvan nāpnoti kilbiṣam
(BG 18.47)

"It is better to engage in one's own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly."

Prabhupāda: No, another, sa-doṣam api na tyajet (BG 18.48).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sa-doṣam api na tyajet.

Prabhupāda: Hm, what is that verse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Saha-jaṁ karma kaunteya.

Prabhupāda: Ah, saha-jaṁ karma kaunteya. You are carpenter, do it. Don't try to become a goldsmith, because you cannot do that. Remain a carpenter.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone. Just like we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is out of love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we would have sat down at home and love Kṛṣṇa. Why you are trying to spread this love exchange to others? Because I know or we know that here in this material world, the so-called love exchange is frustrating, and people are being frustrated. So let him love Kṛṣṇa, then we'll be successful. This is our mission. Everyone has got loving propensity. So this child has now love for his mother, for the mother has got... But as soon as the child will grow, the love is finished, he will love somebody else. When he becomes young man, his love is transferred to somebody else. So here the so-called love is not permanent, but when you love Kṛṣṇa it is permanent exchange of loving humor or mellow. So that is required. Sai this called sai-eva. Sai(?) means permanent it will never end. You'll relish loving mellows eternal.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: In other words the purity is maintained by... The system is perfect to begin with so it remains perfect by being unchanged. If the system is imperfect, you may always be questioning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the system is imperfect, then it has to be changed according to time and circumstance. But if the system is itself perfect, there is no question of... Just like the perfect system: the sun rises from the eastern side. So for millions and trillions of years the system is going on because the system is perfect. It doesn't require change, neither you can change. You cannot ask the sun to rise from the western side. So if the soul is eternal, it does not die or it is slain after the body is finished. But that is eternal fact. Destined in the past present and future, everything.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So the communist teaching that "You love Lenin," and the capitalist teaching that "You love Washington," so nobody's satisfied. Unless the love comes to Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of satisfied.

Jayatīrtha: There's no reciprocation.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?

Harikeśa: Some people think.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are trying to unify the so-called human beings, but you are keeping the poor animals for cutting their throat. This is your humanity. Because these poor animals cannot protest, so you are strong. And this is your humanity, you cut their throat and eat. But that is not humanity. Humanity is here mentioned: God is the seed-giving father all living entities. That is the fact. That is humanity. They do not know what is meaning by humanity. Here is the explanation, humanity. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless you come to that stage, there is no question of humanity. Artificially, you manufacture something and you think humanity. According to your convenience. "Let us combine together and exploit other living entities for our benefit." That is not humanity. They do not know what is humanity. Here is the explanation. How humanity can be established unless there is the understanding of the supreme father, how there is question of, how this question of brotherhood can come in? Here Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." So you try to understand this, then humanity. You cannot manufacture some ideas of humanity, imperfect, because you are imperfect. Here is perfect idea.

Dayānanda: How can we be convinced that this is perfect or that it's practical? Because both ideas seem to us to be theoretical. This idea of humanity as...

Prabhupāda: Theoretical? How it is theoretical. It is practical. You have no intelligence. Your, you say this is also theoretical. Did you not say? I say it is practical. It is practical. From that verse, if you have got brain, you study, you'll see that it is practical. If you are intelligent. But if you are dull, then you'll not understand. How it is practical? Here Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." So do you think it is theoretical? Do you think?

Dayānanda: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I do not...

Prabhupāda: No, no, for argument's sake.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Upastha means...

Interviewer (?): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Samāsa. So we are imperfect, just like they are going to study the planets. What they will study from here? This kind of knowledge has no value, speculation.

Interviewer (4): That is something inborn, isn't it? That scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your inquisiti... You have got born inquisitiveness, jijñāsu, that is especially manifested in human form of life. So for jijñāsu it is recommended, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). You have to go to the proper person. So that we are not doing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the Vedic injunctions. Jijñāsu is our natural instinct, but we go to who has no knowledge. That is the difficulty. We are misled. But the knowledge is there already, the Vedic knowledge is there. There are so many Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra, and Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, but there is no systematic study of this literature. We are neglecting.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (2): It is said there that holy planets is the...

Prabhupāda: Who says? Who says? Who is the sayer? An imperfect person, that's all.

Guest (2): No, it is in the Bhāgavatam. That's what I am saying.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that?

Guest (2): That holy planets exist between the lotus stem that's sprouting from navel of Kṛṣṇa. But there are many planets, millions of planets...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is all explained there. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya. The Mahā-Viṣṇu's breathing and with the breathing innumerable planets are coming, brahmāṇḍas are coming out. Yasya eka niśvasita-kālam atha avalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe, and jagad-aṇḍa-nāthaḥ means Brahmā. Millions of Brahmās living within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. So we have to accept this Vedic knowledge. You cannot compare with your limited knowledge.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So any help you want, we'll give. It is very nice. (Hindi)

Dr. Ramachandra: I only want that your movement should utilize my services because I believe service to mankind is service to God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, service to God is service to mankind. If you pour water in the root, then it is service to the tree. And if you pour water on the leaf, then nobody is served. Everything will be dry, that's all. That is imperfect service. If you have got realization of God, why should you give only human being service? Why not tiger? He is also... Kṛṣṇa says, "They are also My sons." That means you discriminate. That is not that... Father will be satisfied when all the sons are given, not partial, not partial. Suppose I have got five children. If you give service to one children, so I'll ask that "Why not other children?" Naturally.

Dr. Ramachandra: Discrimination comes.

Prabhupāda: Discrimination comes. So if you have realized God, then you must be learned. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Dr. Ramachandra: Śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Prabhupāda: Why you make distinction, daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? If Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why not dhanī? So our vision is either he is dhanī or daridra, he is blind because he does not know God.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They manufacture some idea.

Guest (1): Which has nothing to do with the...

Prabhupāda: Nothing to do... It is spoiled. If you manufacture idea, because you are imperfect... How you can manufacture ideas? Four deficiencies are there, so if you manufacture with deficiency of your own person, then what will be the knowledge?

Guest (1): The result will also be deficiency.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. So who can be more śreṣṭha than Kṛṣṇa? Than Vyāsadeva, Nārada, the ācāryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect. So he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). You understand little Bengali?

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

So Indians, they can make their life perfect by following this Vedic literature, and they can lead the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Some blind men following another blind man. What will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather. And they were feasting, first-class food. In this way spending, spending, spending... And then prostitute, aristocracy. In this way one property and one property lost, everything. At last I saw him going by rickshaw. One day it was raining, and I saw that he was sitting in a rickshaw, and no friend asked him that, "Haren Babu, why you are...? You come to my car," so many. And he was friendly to so many zamindars, kings, and very intimate with... But they lost of everything, and nobody cares. His sons, they are of our age. I do not know whether living or not. But most probably they are not living. They became professional singers, coming of such aristocratic father. His father, that Mr. R. N. Singh, was a very good singer. That also was another aristocratic that aristocrat family—art, some art: painter, singer, poets. Just like Rabindranath Tagore. They became famous as artist. Avanindranatha Thakur, he became famous as artist, and Rabindranath Tagore became... They also followed the aristocratic family, Calcutta. Similarly, this R. N. Singh became a singer. Because they are rich men, they have nothing to do, so... And nobody instructed them how to become saintly person. Simply debauchery and... (break) On the whole the whole human civilization is..., and all the directors, they are not giving chance to know the value of life and how to conduct life. It is the first time, that we are giving the real idea of life. Otherwise whole world is in darkness. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. They do not know what is the end of life. Adānta... Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vyāsadeva's real contribution... Ajānataḥ, lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). He has given the right direction. And they are not taking advantage of it. If they come to sense some day, they'll read all these books, and they will come to know how to live life. That is our contribution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The whole world plunged into darkness. They do not know what is life and what is the aim of life. That's a fact. Periodically, they manufacture some ideas, and people will follow, and then it is failure, and again another revolution. They are..., the Russian philosophy, that periodically revolution required. That is also to some extent. But why revolution? Take the standard. They do not know what is the standard.

Hari-śauri: That means they're always imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect, surely. Let us do something about it.

Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Gargamuni: You can't have more than three...

Prabhupāda: No, why don't you stop? In spite of so many measures for checking population, the population is increasing. How it is? Some years ago I read in a paper that three men are increasing every second or every minute. Rāmeśvara: They cannot control their sex desire. And some of these methods are imperfect. Prabhupāda: No. Sex desire cannot be controlled by ordinary man. That's a fact. But they have invented so many things to stop increase of population. Why population is increasing? That is the point. They are killing and more... They're taking contraceptive tablets and so on, so on, a vigorous arrangement for stopping birth or checking increase of population. Why every second or every minute throughout the whole world three men are increasing? That they cannot stop. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). It is indeed troublesome, but you cannot stop it. Either birth or death or disease or old age, you cannot stop. You want it. Everyone wants. Who wants to become old man like me to run on with a stick and with so many inconveniences? But I have to become old man.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...it from Padma Purāṇa, and he has explained in his own imagination. The idea has been taken from Padma Purāṇa because the Padma Purāṇa, it is already there, evolution. Asatiṁ caturaṁś caiva. Eighty-four lakṣa means hundred thousand, 8,400,000. That is also given. Where is that, that Darwin's theory?

Bhāgavata: They have no number of species.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect idea. He wanted to credit himself. He has stolen the idea from Padma Purāṇa and wanted to explain in his own way, imagination, speculation.

Bhāgavata: The actual evolution is that the soul goes...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: ...from the species, from one species to another in chronological order.

Gurukṛpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, even if they... In all their researches, if they came across this information, I don't think they would reveal it to the world.

Prabhupāda: How they would reveal? They are thieves and rogues. Their idea is: three thousand years ago there was no civilization. This is their poor idea.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: When Kṛṣṇa has sex life there's no inebrieties. There's no abortion and contraception. With his sex life there's so many bad things.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, wherefrom the sex life comes if it is not in God? You make God impotent. But we do not make. Why He should be impotent? Then He's imperfect. If He's not potent, then He's imperfect, and God is all-perfect.

Satsvarūpa: They take it that this is an example of anthropomorphic, that we are saying...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.

Satsvarūpa: "God has sex."

Prabhupāda: They are luscious(?) that... (break) Just like a tuberculosis patient. To him doctor says that "You don't have sex life. That will bring your death." Does it mean sex life is bad? The tuberculosis person, for him it is bad, not for the sane man, not for the healthy man. So when sex life is advised to..., forbidden, that is for the diseased condition. But who is never diseased—he is perfect—for him there is no forbidding of sex life. So you do not understand that in this material condition you are suffering only. You have no brain. Therefore morality, immorality, good, bad, there are so many things. But when one is perfect, healthy, for him all the activities of life is perfect. Just like a physician advised me, "You don't take salt." Does it mean salt is bad? I am in a particular condition of this kidney trouble or liver trouble. For me salt is bad. But does it mean salt bad?

Gurukṛpā: No. It's very good.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: We're looking. You can ask everybody, every man on the street.

Prabhupāda: That is imperfect. It will never be perfect.

Satsvarūpa: They say that method is very good—sometimes—but it's not to be used all the time, authority.

Prabhupāda: All the time. If the authority is perfect, it is all the time.

Satsvarūpa: But if it's in complete contradiction to what we experience with the senses, then it's difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, how you...? Here is a fact, daily affair. So how you experience? What is your method of experience?

Gurukṛpā: To know the father?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: There's no way.

Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are unperceivable by you, don't argue. Take the statement of the authority. So everything imperceptible, even this material world... You do not know what are these planets. Many hundred thousand millions are glittering. You do not know anything. Neither you can know it. Similarly, you cannot know. You have not done it, to manufacture life. How do you rascals say that "It is like this. It is like this. It is chemical combination"? You cannot manufacture even egg, little chemical. But the chemical is coming from within the body of the chicken. It is being perfectly done, but you cannot do it. So what is your knowledge? Why you are so much proud of this knowledge? It is so imperfect.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Devotee (1): So if someone wanted to be, say, a Christian in the Kṛṣṇa conscious..., a society led by a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, if someone wanted to be a Christian, would he be chastised?

Prabhupāda: First of all, whether Christian is religion or, imperfect thing, we have to see that. The father does not chastise always. When the son does wrong, then he chastises. Otherwise why shall he chastise? Christian means if they... Religion means one who believes in God and abides by the order of God. That's his religion.

Satsvarūpa: So if they chanted Christos and stopped eating meat but they still wanted to follow the Bible...

Prabhupāda: No, Bible... But if they follow Bible, that is religion, approved. But they do not follow. Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." They are killing. So what kind of Christian he is? He's a nonsense.

Satsvarūpa: They should be chastised.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be punished. That is the duty of the king. You follow any bona fide religion; you get all protection. But you don't follow; you must be chastised. That is king's duty. A king has no objection whether you are following Christian method or Hindu method. It doesn't matter. But you must have some religion. If you have no religion, then you are animal. You must be chastised. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Religion means you believe in God and love Him. That's all, three words, religion. "You believe in God" means know God, what is God. And love Him. That's all. This is religion. So it doesn't matter whether you understand God through Christian method or Hindu method. But you love God and you abide by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means, religion means, the words of God. So you must know what is God, and you must know what does He say. Then you are religious. It doesn't matter what it is, Christian and Hindu. Gold is gold. Whether you purchase it from a Muhammadan shop or Hindu shop or Christian shop, it doesn't matter. You must get gold. That's all. So whether you have got God? If you have got some fictitious God, then you must learn what is God. What is that? You do not know God, so you must learn what is God. If you refuse to learn, then you must be punished. And if you know God, then it is all right. If you do not know, then you must learn. If you refuse to learn, must be punished. That's all.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then you have to repair.

Gargamuni: Yes, but still, this vehicle, if it was being sold... (break)

Prabhupāda: Authority is sufficient. And if he's imperfect, he cannot be authority. So change of authority means everyone is imperfect, so why shall I do like that?

Satsvarūpa: That's even... That's their philosophy. There's a saying, "Nobody's perfect."

Prabhupāda: No. That you do not know, who is perfect. That is your ignorance. We know. If I know who is perfect, why shall I take your advice, "Nobody is perfect"? Kṛṣṇa is perfect. I know from authorities, from perfect persons.

Hari-śauri: Then they might argue that "I have my authority, and I'm happy to live by it."

Prabhupāda: But you do not believe in authority. You say, "Nobody is perfect." How you get, have, authority? Your statement is "Nobody is perfect," so how you can get?

Hari-śauri: But as far as my own happiness goes...

Prabhupāda: You are unhappy.

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The learned scholars, they used to live in the forest. Vyāsadeva was writing in śāmyaprāśa cottage. (chuckling) That is university. And no university can produce such scholar or student, not imperfect. They're all rascals. What are the values of these MA, Ph.D? (break) It is humbug. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Actually they're vimūḍhān. Mūḍha means rascal and vimūḍhān means special rascals. (laughs) Māyā-sukhāya, for some sense gratification-big, big arrangement. And next life he's going to be a dog. That's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking of these rascals, vimūḍhān, especially rascals, that they are arranging so gorgeous thing for material happiness and forgetting their spiritual identity." Śoce: "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me there is no problem." Tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. "Because they are bereft of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are doing, engaged in these big, big projects, although (they) live for twenty years or fifty years utmost, perhaps. And eternal life? They do not know." Vimūḍhān: "specially rascal." The cats and dogs are rascals, but they are animals. They cannot know anything. But they got this human form of life, and still, they are acting as rascal. Therefore vimūḍhān, "specially rascal." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Such a rascal. (break) ...where charity is given, to be given, give him. That's all. Dātavyam. (break) "...by the people, for the people." And what is the people condition? They are naked. They have no good house, no food. And these men, they must have very good bungalow, very good, comfortable life. This is Kali-yuga, means "Plunder the citizens, take money from them, and live comfortably at the cost of the poor citizens."

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is your, your practical ex...? You are rascal. You have no practical experience. If there is life in the water, if there is life in the air, if there is life within the earth, why not in the fire? It is also one of the elements. Why you discard only fire? There are five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. So if there is life in the earth, in the water, in the air, in the ether, what fire has done there should be no life?

Hari-śauri: But we see. The water's here. The earth's here. We see the life in there. We agree.

Prabhupāda: Your seeing is imperfect.

Hari-śauri: But the fire is here, and there's no life in the fire.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see. That is your imperfect... You should conclude from the general experience, that "Here there is life; there must be... We cannot." But what do you see? Just like they have taken photograph. What is that photograph? Suppose if you take a photograph of the ocean, can you see any life? The life is within. What is the use of your photograph? Your everything is imperfect. You cannot say anything final. And you are imperfect, your senses are imperfect; whatever you have got, that is imperfect. If Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham, then Kṛṣṇa is there.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You cannot see, rascal, because you are rascal. Therefore you cannot see. You have to hear. That is also... Because you are rascal, you cannot see. You simply... Just like you have not seen your father. Rascal, who can see? Who is that rascal who can see his father? You have to hear from the mother. You rascal, you cannot see your father. Why you are claiming that "I want to see my real father." That is not possible. You have to simply hear from the mother. That is only source. Similarly, you are rascal, everything is, you, imperfect, so you have to hear from the authority. That is only source.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śāstra-cakṣus.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no argument.

Hari-śauri: But you used the argument on me that practically we see there's life everywhere—in the water, in the air...

Prabhupāda: So why not in the fire?

Hari-śauri: So why not show me where it is?

Prabhupāda: Again the same argument. I say you are rascal. You cannot see. That is not possible.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm, pratyakṣa, parokṣa aitihya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The senses cheat us because they're imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing looks like the wrong thing.

Prabhupāda: Call Gopīnātha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he points out that the final method, which is to hear from one who actually knows, that is the best way.

Prabhupāda: That is our... And who knows better than Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa gives the example: Shakespeare is the expert on Shakespeare. Kṛṣṇa is the expert on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is good. Very nice.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am also going there for that. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a real good challenge. I mean, I feel it's a nice challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now the... We can see practically how the system of civilization is bad, that this Indira Gandhi, rākṣasī, she became exalted in the topmost rank, and she thought... A person who is equally good or more than her, he was imprisoned. Then how the system is bad, that a rogue comes to the topmost post and a good man is put into the prison? Is not the system defective? Imperfect? Some way or other, you can become very important, and the actually important man you can cut down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envious system.

Prabhupāda: Animal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animals are envious also.

Prabhupāda: Envious is everywhere. So the whole civilization is so defective. Somehow or other, you come to the power, and you do whatever you like, and the people in general will have to depend on such leaders for their welfare. How they can be happy? If the whole system is defective, how they can be happy? The same man, in one day he's very important, in the next day he's the most degraded. And the most degraded man, previously he was praised by millions of people and next day he's condemned. That means who elevated her to the post, they're all rascals.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also makes difficult for others to argue.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually if these two things, that life comes from life and this concept of the universe, two points are clear, then everything is taken care of.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Their false propaganda... (pause) (break) Scientists, they should seriously charge for the prestige of their Vedic knowledge. "Yes, my... Yes, sir, you are stating." What is this nonsense? "You are creating some rascals? Yes, my lord." In the name of education.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All philosophical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He gladly bought the Śrīmad..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...supposed to be intelligent or scholar and does not read my books, his knowledge has no profit. That's a fact. Asampūrṇa. He remains still in darkness. That is a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His learning is imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If such a person doesn't read your books, his learning is not complete-imperfect. Asampūrṇam?

Prabhupāda: Sampūrṇam is perfect, when he completes reading my books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asampūrṇam means incomplete.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "She also," this person who said that, that all the intellectuals should be familiar with the books, "she also bought the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam standing order and promised to advertise your books among her colleagues."

Prabhupāda: Just see how Kṛṣṇa...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Even more pleasing was my conversation with the chairman of the Comparative Literature program. He bought both standing orders for the department library, and he wants to speak with his colleagues, who are interested in India. He feels both or one of them..."

Prabhupāda: This will increase India's cultural program. And the government is not... You have to show to the government.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why family planning? Because they are rascal. Because in this lower species of life they have no planning. You'll find in the dogs, dozens of dogs, dozens of children. And... So there is no family planning. So how they are being raised? There are many animals. So family planning is different thing, but one thing is that these rascals are misguided. They do not know how to give them... In Bengal there is called śiva gotri bango(?). He was ordered to make a doll of Lord Śiva, and he made a monkey. You see? They are doing like that. They were to make Lord Śiva's doll, but they have a monkey because he does not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals do not know how to make things right. Therefore Vyāsadeva has written so nice literature. But they'll not consult. They'll not take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Vyāsadeva's advice, or our advice. They'll manufacture. And instead of preparing doll of Śiva, they are making a doll of monkey. This is going on. And when the monkey is made, "Oh, we did not like this for..." Russia said that occasional revolution is required. Because the things which have been made, that is imperfect, therefore you require revolution. The things are being given, but if we take the perfect thing, it will be nice. These rascals will not take. This is the difficulty. So if Morarji Desai is in favor of... He's also recommending family planning. So that means he does not know.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.

Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, (Bengali). The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct. So what do you have to say? At least some answer you should give.

Yaśodā-nandana: The biggest problem we are discussing... We were thinking that the first question they will ask, this is their conception of the world.

Prabhupāda: We reject them.

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: How to take them to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: There is no question of take them. If you take, he's all right. If you don't take, we cannot change.

Bhakti-prema: As long as we cannot show them.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to prove that you are imperfect.

Bhakti-prema: That has already been proved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You're simply insisting on things by "probably." "Probably beyond the Himalaya there is something." That is one thing. We say "Definitely, here is. Beyond the Himalayas like this, that." That is the difference. You say "probably," I say "definitely." Father, mother said, "Here is your father." You can say "probably," and mother is saying "definitely." She knows perfectly. You may say probably he may be your father, but mother knows that definitely. Therefore we take Vedas as mother, Purāṇas as sister. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining it. Iti śuśruma. But śuśruma, why he should waste his valuable time? He knows it is definite. So unless you come to this standpoint that whatever is spoken in the Vedic literature, that is definite, you cannot be convinced by argument. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Śukadeva Gosvāmī said—that's all. Mahājano yena. Vaiyāsakiḥ.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think that one of the difficulties arose from my seeing this map originally, because in this map it shows the continents that we today speak of as various continents. So when we all looked at this map, our immediate question was, as I said the other day, how do we go from one place to the next? It's not such an unreasonable question. So we're just trying to answer it from the Bhāgavatam—not to give our own speculations, because they're imperfect.

Prabhupāda: That is already answered. You are limited within certain area. So you can conclude in so many ways. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara.(?) There is a vegetable prepared, the following vegetables are taken: sara, bhuri, and kara. And again you say kara bhuri sara. This way or that way. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara. That three things, either you take this way consecutively or that way consecutively. But you have got only that kara bhuri sara. You have no experience. There is potato, there is (indistinct), there is (indistinct-Sanskrit). You know these three things. Sara bhuri kara. Kara bhuri sara. Just like they are making arrangement in the laboratory. Companies are there. They present in such a way, that he was flying in the sky, and big sputnik and very small town. Do you know that man came?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We're not conceiving it. It is already there.

Bhakti-prema: Then it is conceived, he says.

Prabhupāda: Conceived not by me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not by us. By the Unlimited.

Prabhupāda: I am imperfect. That is the difference.

Bhakti-prema: Yes. It is conceivable by you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: By Śukadeva... Not even Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He says śuśruma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I heard."

Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ tene brahma hṛdā (SB 1.1.1). Brahma hṛdā. This is Brahmā. Ādi-kavaye. The Brahmā is very significant. Ādi-kavaye. So it is coming that way.

Bhakti-prema: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they say that they represent the...

Prabhupāda: You can say, but who made you representative? You can say all nonsense. That is your business. (break)... who will give something standard, they'll be established. That standard is in this varṇāśrama. Here is the standard, that leg must be there, the hand must be there, the head must be there, the belly must be... One who has got the qualities to work like hand, he must work as hand. That is natural. These rascals have no education actually. Therefore I always say, "rascals." They manufacture. They are imperfect, and they manufacture. (break) "Probably," "maybe," like that. No standard logic. So, (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: Nandagrāma, Varṣāṇā, Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Śyāma-kuṇḍa. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Govardhana Hill?

Vrindavan De: Govardhana. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So do you know anything about Bengal situation?

Vrindavan De: I think it's okay now.

Prabhupāda: What is the Communist view?

Vrindavan De: Communist view?

Prabhupāda: They don't want religion? What is this leader? Ajit Bose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jyoti Bose.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam, sa-vijñānam. What is the...?

Dr. Kapoor: Sa-vijñānam. Sa-vijñāna means...?

Prabhupāda:: "With vijñāna." Sa means "with."

Dr. Kapoor: Why not vijñāna alone

Prabhupāda: Jñānam is imperfect. Sa-vijñānam. Jñānam me...

Dr. Kapoor: So you want to distinguish it from ordinary science.

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam. Sa-vijñānam. This word is there. Paramaṁ guhyam. Paramaṁ guhyaṁ sa-vijñānam. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably it will be held October 28th, around that time.

Prabhupāda: So they wanted to hold this conference here, and later on, we decided Bombay... (Hindi) Let them decide.

Dr. Kapoor: (Hindi) ...place for this kind of ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Many... He has met with big, big institute, Bose Institute, head of the, and they are appreciating, "Yes, please go on describing."

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.' Everyone knows that the first thing scientists did when discovering atomic energy was to manufacture the atom bomb and promptly drop two of them on Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, thus annihilating millions of innocent victims in a flash. It is certainly marvelous. (Prabhupāda and Tamāla chuckling) At the expense of untold billions of dollars and years of research and hard labor, scientists have gone to the moon, snapped a few blurry photos, and brought back a handful of rocks, declared to the world that 'There was nothing there, so now we will try to go to Mars.' What is so marvelous about this? It is completely lunacy, if anything. On our earthly planet, millions of people are without food, shelter, and simple education. Instead of spending billions of dollars to bring rocks from the moon, science would be more credible if they would rather spend the hard-earned taxpayer's money for improving his own lot on earth. Rocks are rocks, whether from the Moon, from Mars or from China. Or is it that science can turn the rocks into bread and cheese by applying some chemicals? Now, to get to the main article, in answer to Kovoor's question of what objective evidence I have made the fantastic statement that life comes from life and matter also comes from life, and that there is soul, rebirth of the soul, and Supreme Soul, God, they say fight fire with fire, and so I have taken advantage of three scientists who happen to be members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and, I dare say, more qualified than the so-called Dr. Kovoor, who is only an honorary doctor..."

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śrutakīrti: Also, flying over here, that 747 I was flying on was three hours late because of some mechanical difficulty. So even they make it, they don't make it very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect.

Satsvarūpa: The scientists are spending more and more time now on death with these weapons. There's more and more new bombs that they're making. So this is all they can do, is how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: Die.

Balavanta: Now one British physician has said that anyone over a certain age should be killed. Big, big physician. That is public, all over. He said "The old people will not like it, but the young people will accept my proposal."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he's older man.

Balavanta: He's young.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's young. If he were old, we could suggest that he should be the first.

Prabhupāda: What? What is? What is that?

Balavanta: Big British physician, he has proposed...

Prabhupāda: British?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English. One British physician has proposed that now all old people should be killed to make room for enough young people.

Balavanta: He says they are useless in society. Actually they haven't taken sannyāsa, they're not preaching, so these old people are simply useless.

Prabhupāda: Actually they are useless. (laughter) So our challenge to this science society is all right? Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: Challenge them to produce even a small living being? What can he do? He can only say, "In the future."

Prabhupāda: That is useless. Then kill them. No future. Immediately. Why future?

Page Title:Imperfect (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:25 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=77, Let=0
No. of Quotes:77