Expressions researched:
"ideal"
|"idealism"
|"idealist"
|"idealistic"
|"ideally"
|"ideals"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco: Prabhupāda: It is temple, just there is Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity and it's very, a place of sanctuary. If you go there you'll find immediately some impulse of spiritual idealism.
Interviewer: Do you have altars?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you have any of the other things you find in the inside of churches?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, we have altars, we have pictures. We offer fruits, flowers, incense, and immediately, by combination of these things, there is some spiritual atmosphere, and there is chanting. So people enjoy it very nicely.
Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco: Prabhupāda: It is temple, just there is Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity and it's very, a place of sanctuary. If you go there you'll find immediately some impulse of spiritual idealism.
Interviewer: Do you have altars?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you have any of the other things you find in the inside of churches?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, we have altars, we have pictures. We offer fruits, flowers, incense, and immediately, by combination of these things, there is some spiritual atmosphere, and there is chanting. So people enjoy it very nicely.
Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco: Prabhupāda: Expansion is direct, and incarnation is indirect. When expansion of expansion is accepted, that is called kalā, incarnation, avatāra, kalā. So Advaita is not direct. The example is given in Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you get one candle kindled from the first candle, another from the second, another from the third. So similarly, either expansion or incarnation, they are all candles. The original candle is Kṛṣṇa. It is not that expansion of expansion is less powerful. The candle power is the same either origin or expansion or expansion of the expansion. It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world.
Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure: Prabhupāda: So that is the difference between the devotees of the Lord and materialistic persons. When their materialistic relationship, comforts, are taken away, they think "Oh, it is all grace." And the materialistic person, when their materialistic comforts are increased, they think, "It is grace." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasmin jāgrati saṁ... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like... There is a crude example. I think I have cited this example many times, that a foolish patient thinks that increase of fever is very nice. Fever, so what should be the ideal? Fever should decrease. But those who are less intelligent, they think, "Yes, it must increase." (chuckles) There is a drama in Bengali that in a house a doctor came to diagnose. There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless.
Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure: Prabhupāda: There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless. I am the landlady. I have got 99, and my maidservant 105. And maidservant should have 98. I should have 110!" (laughter) This is the mentality. The modern civilization is trying to increase the degree of fever to 110 degrees. And, you know, as soon as the degree comes to 107 it is death. Do you know that? If the fever increases to hundred and... Therefore as soon as the high fever is there, the doctor try to decrease it by icebags and so many things because to come to the fever degree, 107 or 8, means immediate death. So the modern civilization, they are trying to increase the degree of material fever, and they have come to the point, 107 degree-atomic bomb. Now they are going to die. You see? The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio: Prabhupāda: My... Personally, I have no, I mean to say, ideal or ambition.
Allen Ginsberg: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: But it is the mission of human life to come to that point. So at least there must be some center or institution who may give them this idea. It is not that everyone will come. Just like there are many educational department. I know in Calcutta in our boyhood age, at that time Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee was vice-president. So he opened some classes in the university. In each class there were four or five professors, and at that time the professors' salary was 1300 dollar, 1400 dollar. And the fees were collected, at most thirty-six dollar per month. You see? But still the classes were to be maintained because the ideal must be there. So our mission is the intelligent persons of the world may know that this is not, simply seeking after sense gratification is not the aim of human life. Human life is meant by... Just like Bhāgavata says, jīvasya tattva-jijnasa. Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The same thing.
Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also there is a story in the Bhāgavatam about the girls; they were offering to Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another feature of Lord Caitanya. He taught in that instruction that there is no need of worshiping demigods. The incident is that in India the unmarried girls, they are encouraged to worship Lord Śiva especially in the month of Vaiśākha, March-April. And they will go to the Ganges side and prepare Śivaliṅga, and they'll... That means Śiva will be pleased upon them to offer a husband like Lord Śiva. Śiva is very peaceful and very great devotee and most powerful at the same time. So that is the ideal husband. So they brought worshipable paraphernalia for worshiping Śiva on the bank of the Ganges, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Śiva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Śiva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately." By this, He wanted to instruct that worshiping the Supreme Lord is the appeasement of other demigods. You don't require to appease them separately. This instruction. Then some girls will hesitate. Then He will curse them that "You'll be married with an old man having seven children by his former wife." So they will be afraid, "Oh, maybe this boy is cursing..." Then out of fear they'll offer. Then He said, "Oh, you'll have a very nice young husband and you'll have seven children by him." In this way it was going on.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst: Prabhupāda: Oh, very glad to see you. Be happy and make all others happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. That is Vedic idea. Everyone be happy. That is the benediction. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that let this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement be preached in every village, in every town of the world. People will be happy. That is His foretelling. So any missions, any high ideals, should be preached just to make everyone happy. Because in the material existence, there is no happiness. That is a fact. There cannot be any happiness. This place is not meant for happiness because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the Lord Himself says this is a place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries, this material world. And aśāśvatam, and temporary. Everything is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat: Yadubara: But what can the state do? Should the state just leave the people alone?
Prabhupāda: No. They should make the citizens so nicely developed in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness that they should be self-dependent, self-satisfied. That is the ideal of civilization.
Yadubara: But America is so far from that.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is not advancement, although they are very much proud of advancement. This is not sign of advancement. According to Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate: (Bg. 6.20-23) "If one is situated in such a position that even in the greatest, gravest type of dangerous position, he is not agitated, he is not agitated, that is the real happiness." Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. These are the words, yasmin sthite: "Situated in such a position that although he is facing greatest danger, he is not agitated." There is one instance. Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad: Prabhupāda: That may be an ideal, but we take Kṛṣṇa as the highest authority. Even Kṛṣṇa's words are not accepted. That's a fact. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So a few persons might have surrendered to Him. Even Kṛṣṇa was present, only the Pāṇḍavas and the inhabitants of the Vṛndāvana and Dvārakā, some of them understood that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. But many did not accept Him. Many insulted Him. Just like Śiśupāla insulted Him. So even Kṛṣṇa could not be accepted.
Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London: Prabhupāda: It's Kṛṣṇa's mission to awaken man's original consciousness. At the present moment we have got designated consciousness. I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking Englishman, another is thinking American. But actually we are neither American nor Indian nor any that sort of designation. We are part and parcel of God. That is our real identification. If we come to that consciousness, then all the problems of the world will be solved. Now, due to our designated consciousness, we are thinking, "You are different from me, I am different from you," but if we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we shall know that we are one, the same spirit soul, maybe in different dress. That is the explanation given in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like we are all human beings, gentlemen, ladies. Maybe in different dress, but our aims and objects are the one and the same. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). To make people free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they become purified. And when they're purified their activities by purified senses make them perfect. That is the ideal perfection of human life. And our process is also very simple. There is no need of becoming a great philosopher, scientist, or thoughtful man.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London: Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London: Prabhupāda: Just like these flowers. These flowers the devotees are bringing to their spiritual master, to God. They are not enjoying. Ordinary man, if he gets a flower, he'll put it in the pocket. How... You see? That is the difference of God consciousness. The flower is the same, but use is different.
Guest (2): What's your view, if I may ask, on, for emotion in, of, an ideal, a Christian ideal and so on through the media. Will you use television and radio to condemn things like racial intolerance and the Vietnam War? Do you believe that you should become involved in these things? Could you issue a statement and say that the movement condemns so and so? Do you believe getting into anything in the world spectrum to comment on things?
Revatīnandana: Do you follow the question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? His question is do we concern ourselves with particular problems in the world, there's the war in Vietnam, there's racial discrimination? Do we make statements to condemn this war or to condemn that discrimination?
Prabhupāda: No. Thing is that there are so many problems. Our proposition is, when you become God conscious, then all problems automatically solved. We don't take the problems. We take the... Just like disease. There are many symptoms. A man is suffering from a particular disease. He has a headache, he has this pain, this pain, that pain.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Yes. If the interest is one—to capture this—then it is one. That means to... You cannot lose your individuality. But if your interest is one, then you merge into. Do you understand? Just like you are all Australian. Why you are all Australian? Or you are all individual. How you become all Australian, merge into the Australian conception? Because as Australian, you have one interest. So individuality cannot be killed. That is not possible. You are all individual. But when you make your interest one, then you merge into that thing. Each one of us, an individual person... What is your ideal, you all three? You are three persons. What is your philosophy, ideal? Vegetarian?
Impersonalist: Meditation and action.
Upendra: Meditation and action.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever you do, you do all together. That is merging. But you are all individual. Your personality is different from his. His personality different from him. He is from you. But because you have got one interest, therefore you one.
Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: What you do now, this is my manifest plan, you... And so far Vṛndāvana is concerned, now there are three properties, so ideally one should keep (give?) his own property. Is that all right? (indistinct).
Devotee: That leased property.
Prabhupāda: Leased property. So I am not concerned. (indistinct) I want that you should live very peacefully and concentrate your mind for (indistinct). And we are not disturbed with these arrangements. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja will be (indistinct), then that problem is solved. Now you make divided zones and work (indistinct). I want to (indistinct). That's all right.
Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home: Prabhupāda: What idealistic?
Guest (2): Hypothetical case that...
Prabhupāda: No, nothing hypothetical. Your bondage... Bondage means that birth, death, old age and disease. This is bondage. We are all living entities, part and parcel of God. We are spirit soul. So this is not our business, birth, death, old age and disease. So bondage means so long you'll get this material body you are under this bondage: birth, death, old age, and disease. Because you are very rich man, getting good salary, it does not mean that you will not die, or disease will not attack you. This is bondage. First of all try to understand what is bondage. Bondage and freedom. Bondage means to be subjected to the condition of this material body. That is called bondage. The body may be elephant's body or tiger's body or Brahmā's body or ant's body, but that is bondage. Because as soon as you get a material body you are under this bondage of birth, death, old age and disease. So your problem is how to get out of this bondage, not that to accept the bondage—just like I am bound up by iron shackles—"Let me be bound up by golden shackles." So that is bondage. The people do not know. They are satisfied when they are bound up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance. He feels satisfied when he is locked up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance.
Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles: Jayatīrtha: Pragmatic means practical, and utopian means idealistic concept. (indistinct) So many people are suffering here, famine, so many things, and they're spending so many millions of dollars. (indistinct) anyway.
Prabhupāda: Why the scientists cannot make it straight?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ideality is assumed in many scientific theories.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ideality of certain laws of certain matter, they assume it.
Prabhupāda: Are they not utopian?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they take it as facts. For example...
Prabhupāda: So you take it your things as fact, we take our fact. Why do you say my things utopian, yours fact? Similarly, I can say my fact, your utopian.
Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: So you take it your things as fact, we take our fact. Why do you say my things utopian, yours fact? Similarly, I can say my fact, your utopian.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, in chemical elements, the elements like helium, neon, argon, these are called inert gasses, these are called ideal gasses, because they behave ideally under the assumptions of scientific theories. It fits perfectly well to their theory, so they call these gasses ideal gasses. And gasses like oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen, these are nonideal gasses because they do not behave properly like helium or neon. So the (indistinct), first they develop the theory from these ideal gasses, and then when the theory doesn't fit to the gasses, like hydrogen and oxygen, they modify it. So they call these are nonideal gasses. So accordingly the theory is modified. They put certain numbers to adjust their modifications. So in all..., most scientific theories, they develop something that is called ideal; and from that ideality, they extrapolate these so-called other theories. That is almost in all scientific theories.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet, and Kṛṣṇa comes to show us the ideal place in Vṛndāvana. The sample Vṛndāvana is here. So why do you say it is utopian?
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) ideal. The material world isn't very ideal.
Prabhupāda: That is the imitation of the ideal.
Jayatīrtha: Some people are trying to make it ideal, trying to make this place ideal.
Prabhupāda: There must be something ideal; otherwise how they will try to make it ideal? They are trying to be immortal. Unless there is something immortal, how they...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The actual ideality is there.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Finally proof.
Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles: Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they do not know that. They do not say also, they do not know that. They do not say that there is not life after death because they do not know.
Devotee (1): There is one plan to freeze people at the time of death. This is actually going on now—to be awoken out of such frozen state when the science is advanced...
Prabhupāda: That means there is no life. If you want to keep it frozen, that means after this body there is no life.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: By engaging. That is our school. It is a school. If a student does not learn nicely, you cannot say, "Get out." As far as possible. But when it is absolutely impossible to correct him, then you have to ask. And if there is money, equal you have to manage some money, what can be done? But I don't think if we try our best to correct him, this ultimate punishment will be required. Human being, after all human being, and our business is to teach and become ideal ourself. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya. We have to teach by our personal behavior. If you rise early in the morning, if you take your bath, if you sit down regularly and keep them (indistinct), how he can deny? How one can deny? It is not possible. But if I smoke, I ask others not to smoke, that will never be possible. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, first of all you have to be. If one is not cleansing, you shall tell me (indistinct) this way. We have to do like that.
Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that best living entity is God. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That means the best controller, the supreme controller. Just like this man is controlling his dog, and that man is controlled by somebody else. In his office or where he works, he is controlled by his boss. And the dog is controlling the cat, the cat is controlling rat. In this way, one after another, there are controllers. I control you, he controls me, another controls him. In this way, you go on searching. When you find out somebody who controls but is not controlled by anyone, He is God. Where is the difficulty to understand? Everyone here we see that although a person is controller, at the same time he is controlled. Therefore the ideal living entity is, he controls but he is not controlled by others. That is supreme.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: So man is the sample of God. So why don't you try, study nicely man, and you can know, understand God, what is God. I asked these Christian people, "If man is made after the image of God, you study very scrutinizingly a perfect human being, and you will know what is God."
Umāpati: The most ideal image of a human being is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.
Paramahaṁsa: No competition.
Prabhupāda: No competition. That is Bhagavān. Bhagavān means... We are giving this definition. Bhagavān means a perfect man. That's all. Now, just like man wants to wife, to have wife. So why there is, what is called, adulteration? He wants more than one wife. Just see, perfect Kṛṣṇa, He has got sixteen thousand wives, which you cannot imagine. Here is perfection. You cannot say that a man has no inclination to have more than one wife. That is there. So that propensity is, in perfection, is there in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is God.
Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: ...recently I've heard that the people in the airport protested against Indira Gandhi, that "Give us rain." Yes. That is Vedic civilization ideal. Why there is rain then no rain? The king should be responsible. One brāhmaṇa lost his son. He immediately went to the king and asked him that "The son has died before the death of the father; why this irregularity? You are responsible." You see? The ideal is that the king is representative of God, because we are all sons of God. We have come here in this material world for our proper guidance. The king is responsible, the spiritual master is responsible, the father is responsible, the elderly persons are responsible. Because you told me that we have to work for other. That other is Kṛṣṇa. If we utilize our intelligence for serving Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of the king or the spiritual master or the father, then the society is perfect. That is ideal civilization. What is your opinion about this? How do you think this ideal...
David Wynne: I think it's... I... I... I wonder when it will come. Will it come on this level or what...?
Prabhupāda: Immediately, provided you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London: David Wynne: Yes, he prays five times a day. He's a Moslem.
Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty.
Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: So if the monarch becomes ideal, it will be very nice.
David Wynne: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: There is still a feeling... In all other countries, everyone thinks, "I can become the leader. I can become president." "I can become prime minister." But in this country, everyone still must think, "I cannot become the king. I cannot become the queen." The king is something higher.
David Wynne: I'm making also the new coins for this country, and they were thinking of leaving off the words "Fin def," which means in Latin "Defender of the faith." And I refused to do it if they left that off the coin. Because it's the most important. It means she's, it acknowledges that she is the, although it's only a tradition, but she's the defender of the faith of the people. And they were going... They said, "Oh, this is just now archaism." But I got them to keep it in. (pause) What I was going to ask was to praise, I feel, and I may be wrong... I was going to ask you. When I make a piece of sculpture of... The other day, I made two dancing figures. They were just a boy and a girl dancing. But I felt that this was praising God because these were as God, I tried to make them, as God had made them, and in joy and simple, but happy. And is this, is this presumptuous, or is this right, to try to praise the creation by making sculpture?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London: Śyāmasundara: Does this correspond, Mr. Toynbee, with your view of the future history?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the future history. You can predict in your writings. Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: With more people in politics in India, are they able to keep the Vedic ideal? Or...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. They have given up.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.
Prabhupāda: The politicians, they (say that) "These books are useless. Throw them in the water." They say like that publicly. They are not interested. Rather, this movement, as I have now began with my disciples, European, American boys, they're... They are not very satisfied, the present politicians. They are not very satisfied. They don't want. Everywhere this, more or less the same mentality, but it is our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa to push on this movement. So we are doing, and we are getting response. It is not without response. It will increase. That is also stated, that for ten thousand years Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will increase. Yes.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: No great man wants to become great. But because he's great, God helps him to become great.
Lord Brockway: Yes. Well, what I was saying is I've never wanted to be in a government. I've never wanted to have power. I've had certain ideals that I wanted to serve, and just prepared to serve them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: ...wherever it led.
Prabhupāda: That every human being can do.
Lord Brockway: But as I see so many men and women who are regarded as ordinary men and women, and their heroism in life, their sacrifice in life, their service in life, makes me small compared with them, even if they are not known, and even if they are not thought to be great. And so I don't think to be great at all.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No big man thinks like that. He thinks always small.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London: Prabhupāda: So that is natu... That is good. Big, big man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was lear... "I am fool number one." And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that "I am lower than the, a worm in the stool." So this is good attitude. Nobody... Sir Isaac Newton also used to say that "What knowledge I have got. I have simply collected..." They're... Every, every big man thinks like that. That is good attitude. But there is comparative study, that "Here is a big man, here is a common man." So our proposition is that it is a great science, great philosophy. So western countries, they are intelligent, especially the Britain, British people. They had very good opportunity. Still they have got opportunity. So my request is that let us study this philosophy and science and if possible introduce it in the human society. That is our proposal.
Śyāmasundara: I think Lord Brockway was saying that his ideal is that, at present moment, that men of the world try to make an understanding, intellectual understanding of the problems and try to make an intellectual solution...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London: Lord Brockway: Oh, I approve of it very, very strongly. Very strongly. It must be... It must be the basis of all, of all good.
Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment. So it may be they're electing a wrong person. That is the defect of democracy.
Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London: Schumacher: And not to get satisfaction out of making idealistic...
Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have such a big place, but why they are not coming? We have temples all over the world, but people are not coming.
Prabhupāda: Because there are restriction.
Schumacher: That is not, that is not... That doesn't meet my point. My point is...
Haṁsadūta: Why not? If they have no place to live, let them come and live here. We are convinced that Kṛṣṇa can provide place for any number of His...
Prabhupāda: Millions.
Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris: Yogeśvara: He says the ideal of Christianity is to imitate these various qualities of Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I think it is the character specific of Christianity, the importance of the person of Jesus. Jesus is the perfect model, you know, of the virtues, and it is apply the model on the savior because we think that Jesus is not purely man. He is a manifestation of God. God is gone amongst us to help the man to find Him. We know that the man research God, but his capacity of find, and is necessary that God come to help the man to find Him.
Bhagavān: We call that guru.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. And Jesus, Jesus is this. So I am very, very glad to meet you...
Prabhupāda: May, may I ask you one question? Jesus says: "Thou shalt not kill." So why Christian people are killing?
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?
Yogeśvara: He says it is love.
Prabhupāda: Love, that's nice. Very good. So the supreme consciousness and our individual consciousness, when they are in exchange of love, that is perfection. Is that...?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that this ultimate consciousness is one of union with the Absolute, that it is one of light, of samādhi, of total love. This is the highest.
Prabhupāda: So love, love. When we speak of love, there must be two persons. (Yogeśvara translates) So what is their philosophy?
Yogeśvara: The love of which they are speaking is a love that binds everything together, that bathes everything in light and love.
Prabhupāda: So there is no action? No action?
Yogeśvara: No, he says there is action.
Prabhupāda: What are those activities?
Yogeśvara: Giving.
Prabhupāda: Giving and taking also.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?
Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?
Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: One hundred people..., but the ideal must be there. One may follow or not follow.
Yogeśvara: Their order doesn't reject anyone.
Prabhupāda: I think... Whether their order approves animal killing?
Yogeśvara: There are no restrictions. The order doesn't require.
Prabhupāda: Then let us stop here. No more questions. Waste time.
Yogeśvara: He doesn't like the idea of killing animals, and he has advised that to friends.
Prabhupāda: But what is the ideal of the order? That I am asking.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Love between men, understanding.
Prabhupāda: What the animals have done? No brotherhood is there.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: ...on principle the order does not allow animal killing, is it?
Yogeśvara: They would rather not see anyone killed. Ideally, on an ideal level, their movement would not want to see animals killed, anyone killed.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order.
Yogeśvara: Their principles are love, beauty, harmony, peace. (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: He says there are no rules, but as you progress, one initiation after another initiation, if you start out as a butcher, then gradually in your own self, you will wish to give it up. But there are no rules. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...one initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that are steps, but the order itself doesn't require that you give up meat-eating at any point. He says he thinks that the people themselves would probably give it up in the higher stages. He says that their order has a very smart way of doing things, that if they were to try and tell people, "Don't do this, don't do this, don't do that," right away, nobody would join them. So they don't say that. (break) They fall away gradually by themselves. (break) ...quotes a passage from St. Paul who said if you go and visit someone who is a meat-eater, don't trouble him. Accept meat with him. The real mystic is someone who has controlled his body.
Prabhupāda: That he cannot explain, how to control the body.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: But these things are there, but they don't say. Suppose a man is killing animals. They don't prohibit him. Then that is immoral life, but if they don't prohibit him, then how he can become moral? (break) ...killing of animals and morality will go together?
Yogeśvara: It's an order that likes very much the ideals of beauty and harmony and morality, but they can't see imposing on anyone these things. I guess their idea is that you can't impose beauty and morality on anyone. You can't insist that anyone stop killing. You can't tell anyone forcibly not to do this or not to do that, that these are things that you have to realize.
Prabhupāda: But is there such rules and regulation or injunction from the society that "You do not kill." Just like Bible there is, "You shall not kill." So they have no such thing.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris: Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I think for mass of people, unless they have got some ideal, how they can join? That is my point.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...devotees think, think, "Who am I? Where do I come from? Where am I going?"
Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) ...realize what he is.
Yogeśvara: If he had not realized something, he would never have come tonight.
Prabhupāda: No. Then therefore he can describe what he is.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm: Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay: Prabhupāda: So actually, in this, at the present moment, they have invented so many technology, but this technology is missing. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Nobody wants to die. And where is that technology, to stop death? What so you think? You are financing many technological institutions, businesses. Why don't you finance an institution which is giving instruction how to stop death?
Banker: But as I understood it, you were encouraging death as a form of liberation. Isn't that my understanding? That that was the ideal?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Therefore you are not financing. Because you misunderstand. Actually, we are giving the technological knowledge by which one stops death. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Ha? No. That is rascaldom. They do not see the real problem. Neither they're able to solve it. They're simply happy by some... Just like child. The child, he wants to play whole day long. He does not care. Like that. This human life is meant for making a perfect solution of all problems. That they do not care. There is some temporary benefit. They're very much busy and known as scientist.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they'll say that it is ideal. That cannot be attained.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if it can be attained, then you do not know. Then you are foolish. You say that cannot be attained. But I say it is possible. Śāstra states, Kṛṣṇa says—the whole thing is discovered. Simply understand Kṛṣṇa and next life you become eternal. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply if you go to our temple and see Kṛṣṇa, you'll be devotee. You don't do anything. Don't talk anything. Simply see Kṛṣṇa. It is so easy. You simply see Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam and live comfortably and next life you'll go to back to home back to Godhead.
Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Pure devotee, yes. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He had no other business than Kṛṣṇa, everything. That is the ideal perfection. (break) Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Everything is vacant without Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. (break) No, that determination will come automatically when you are advanced.
Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Why imagination? It is not imagination. Just like I am a man. I have got hundred dollars. He has got thousand dollars. He has got four thousand or five thousand. In this way we see comparative. One is richer than other, other, other. Then why there shall not be somebody who is richest of all? We see practically. How can you deny? That is God. Power, strength—you are stronger than me, he is stronger than you, he is stronger, like that. But if we find somebody, that nobody is stronger than him, he is God. Education, beauty, all the six opulences, you compare. Because we see comparative, so there must be somebody ideal, above whom there is no more education, no more wisdom, no more beauty. That is God.
Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles: Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just a form of preaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The ideal should be there. Just like sometimes university maintains some classes, spending thousands of dollars every month, but there is no student. Does it mean the university shall close that department? No, it must go on. If anyone is fortunate, he'll take advantage. This is process.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among those students, thousands of students, there are only very few who come out very good in society...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: That's because they're rogues. Against their ideals. "Why you're laughing like fools? Does it belong to you or your father? This whole world? Why you are laughing like a fool?" You should have said like that. "You're laughing not like a gentleman; you're laughing like a fool. Can you say that it belongs to your father? Or you'll be allowed to stay here in America? After some years you'll be kicked out. Do you know where you were going? Why you are laughing like fools?" This should be the answer.
Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: So, these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu...
Karandhara: Most western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing.
Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life.
Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles: Karandhara: They accept the conception, but they don't accept the reality of it.
Prabhupāda: No. Reality, because they do not know. They have been always been misguided by rascals. Therefore they cannot think of that there can be perfection. This is called skepticism. Because everyone is faulty, therefore there is no knowledge. This is skeptism. But real knowledge is that as I see this man is intelligent that man, that man is intelligent than that man, therefore there is an ideal intelligent man which we could not find. And that is God. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles: Prajāpati: If we were there and we could make one speech in front of that assembled Congress and Senate, the main government of the United States, what were the main points we would stress?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles. A man who trusts in God, he is the ideal man.
Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles: Prajāpati: ...the affair, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh, then the country could be...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am already in charge, but who is following me? (laughter) That is the difficulty. (break) ...one who is to be followed, that is called ācārya. So who is following the ācārya? Nobody is following. Ācārya is there, but nobody is following ācārya. Ācaraṇa. Ācaraṇa means behavior. Ācārya. "This man is ideal. One should follow him." That is called ācārya. (break) ...to allow us one day to have chanting and speaking something about God consciousness.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Ideal, radicalist, idealist. But if you can induce them... That is also another process...
Umāpati: Through influence.
Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians. Otherwise, how they could rule? The soldiers were Indian, the police were Indian, the secretariat, office, clerks, they were Indians—all Indians. But they manufactured in such a way that they were cooperating. So Gandhi took the route that "You non-cooperate; then the Britishers will automatically go away." That was his movement. Similarly, if we educate public that "You must find out a leader who is free from these sinful activities. Then you will be happy. And you also give up. Otherwise, how you will be able to select such a leader?" This should be our real propaganda. Otherwise they will think that "They're against our real joyful life. So these men are useless." You have to explain that "If these things, sinful activities, you prolong, then you cannot become happy."
Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was ideal sannyāsī, and He was living apart from any material attachment. But we have to do preaching work. We have to construct temple, comfortable temple. So who will pay for that?
Guest (1): Then your version...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to sometimes do that. Just like that woman, that chaste woman. She served a prostitute...
Guest (1): To make them correct.
Prabhupāda: No. Serve prostitute for serving her husband. That is a big story.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Therefore they are against religion. But actually, if we show that we are producing, we are managing, we are educating, then we can counteract the communist tendency. But they are seeing that, that escaping. They say, "They escape responsibility of worldly life and they're indulging in some religious..." That is the tendency. All... Everywhere the government is complaining like that. Therefore they do not want to increase the number of temples, increase the number of devotees. They do not want. Because they say, "These are a class of idle men. They cannot do anything, and they take to this religious life." That is the tendency. They are feeling like that. But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. Then this mis... That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Hṛdayānanda: From the very beginning we should teach Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But our, our position is that we are above varṇāśrama. But for management or ideal society, we are introducing this. We, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we are above varṇāśrama. But to show the people that we are not escaping, we can take part in any order of life. That is our position. Just like if I brush somebody's shoes, that does not mean I am shoemaker. My position is the same. But to show how to do it... Just like a servant is doing.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: That, as it is suitable. It is not that because the kṣatriyas were killing by bows and arrows formerly, you have to continue that. That is another foolishness. If you have got... If you can kill easily by guns, take that gun. Just like formerly, parivrāja, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on the street. There was no aeroplane or... Or he did not use it. Does it mean that I shall have to follow that? I must take the jet engine. If it is available. If somebody criticizes, "Oh, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on leg and you are travelling in the jet plane?" Shall I have to take that ideal? These are rascaldom. When you have to work, you have to work with the greatest facility. That's all. Now I have got the facility of the talking in microphone, and... So why should I not take it? It will be recorded. It will be heard by so many others. I am speaking to four, five men. It can be heard by a big crowd of four hundred men.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Hṛdayānanda: They can start at ten to twelve?
Prabhupāda: Yes. From five to ten years, gurukula. And after ten years, they should go to the varṇāśrama college.
Viṣṇujana: New Vrindaban would be an ideal place in America for such a school.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Organize that.
Viṣṇujana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall go.
Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.
Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: So they should be trained to rise early and so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep healthy, then you will naturally rise healthy, er rise early in the morning. But if you... Because you have lost all, what is called? Stamina?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal.
Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: There are many parties in Bombay, kīrtana parties. You have to organize them and bring them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Create this nuisance. And Maharashtra is the country of Tukārāma. He organized kīrtana. Still the Tukārāma kīrtana parties are there. Viṭṭhala. Viṭṭhala means Kṛṣṇa. And ideal gosvāmī should remain here to challenge these false gosvāmīs. But if you also become false, then you cannot challenge. (break) ...have come, we can talk with them. Mr. Gupta, your pathaks (?), they have come. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jayo. (Hindi) (break) ...have sufficient quantity of grains, then you are dhanavān. This is all false, so-called dhanavān. (Hindi) Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you want to flourish, you must have sufficient grains. Where is that grain? Some... (Hindi) Lecture. What is that lecture? Where is anna? (break) (Hindi) This is going on. (Prabhupāda describes in Hindi how Bhāgavatam describes the present government leaders as dogs, hogs, camels and asses; and other topics) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). This is the only... (Hindi) Our movement is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay: Dr. Patel: We will start such a factory and do it, and it will be an ideal for...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't start. Already the factory is there. Go and teach them.
Dr. Patel: Where? In America?
Prabhupāda: Any... Here. There are so many factories.
Dr. Patel: I will let them come and see.
Prabhupāda: If you, actually you are leader, then you induce them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in the factory.
Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay: Prabhupāda: What is this?
Dr. Patel: Here the same thing. There are part of an ideal.
Prabhupāda: No, no. When the young men, young women, as they meet, there is possibility, sex.
Dr. Patel: That is there in Swami Nārāyaṇa's sampradāya. If you go to temple, a sannyāsī you can't see, but the people for saṁsārīs, saṁsārīs (?)... (break)
Prabhupāda: But the men come from women. (Heavy wind noise throughout)
Dr. Patel: That's right. But here we are talking of that.
Prabhupāda: So if they are, women are extricated, then where the Swami Nārāyaṇa's devotees will come from?
Dr. Patel: And if they come from home, not from the temple.
Prabhupāda: But home means, that is from a woman.
Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay: Prabhupāda: You may mean something, but actually, that is not the meaning. That is the difference. You may mean something. The point is that you may follow. In the Vedas there are different ways, but you cannot decry the authority of the Vedas. That is the point.
Dr. Patel: The ideal Vaiṣṇava will not say this. The ideal Vaiṣṇava. Even Vedas say to kill an animal anytime, I won't. I won't kill it, I won't eat it. I'll not eat even in England as a student of London University-meat.
Prabhupāda: I'm recommending you to eat meat?
Dr. Patel: No, you eat the..., indirectly so.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay: Mr. Sar: Arjuna was a very, very great general, the most ideal general representing the real culture of this country.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. It doesn't matter. Nanda Mahārāja, a vaiśya. Arjuna is a kṣatriya. And there are many śūdras also. So what is that goat(?) caṇḍāla. He was a caṇḍāla. But everyone has got the right to become a devotee. That is wanted. (break) ...tanuvān manobhiḥ. Remain in your place, but giving aural reception to the Kṛṣṇa message, you become a devotee. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't ask anybody to change. We want to make him transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). (break) Brahma-stuta śruti-kārayan. Now, in the brahma-stuta, yaṁ brahma, beginning... So that is yaṁ brahma. Then simply if you recite, yaṁ brahma... You must know who is that yam. And that is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. Here is that yam, Kṛṣṇa.
Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: Therefore the society must be divided into four classes of men, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (
BG 4.13). There are three guṇas, and the sattva-guṇa, brāhmaṇa, a class of
ideal men, must be there in the society so that people can follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (
BG 3.21). If there is no
ideal men in the society, how they can be of good character? Therefore the brahminical class of men, I mean to say, in quality, satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (
BG 18.42). There must be an
ideal class of men, brāhmaṇa. The next class, kṣatriyas, who can give protection to the society, they should come forward whenever there is danger. They will come forward to give protection to the society. Similarly, next, the vaiśya, they must produce. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (
BG 18.44). The class of men should be interested, produce foodgrains and give protection to the cows.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad: Akṣayānanda: No. One may come out of a thousand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to remain in degradation, and they will protest again. Therefore to save the degradation, this cātur-varṇyam must be established. That I... The ideal class. People will follow, "Oh, here is the ideal class." So we are trying to make an ideal class of Kṛṣṇa conscious people. And if you treat yourself as degraded, then who will care for you? You should remain an ideal class. People will follow gradually.
Mahāṁsa: If a brāhmaṇa class is created, then automatically the kṣatriyas and vaiśyas and śūdras will be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The ideal, if you be ideal class, gradually they will take your advice, what to do. Then immediately the whole degradation will be finished.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad: Akṣayānanda: Everyone is attracted to you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should be such qualified that people will come to consult you, to take your advice, and... That is the way. (break) ...one after another. Just like if you are a qualified lawyer, when one has difficulty, he comes, consults you, what to do. If you are a qualified physician, then people will come to consult you. So you become qualified, ideal; people will come. Otherwise who will care for you? (break) ...principles. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating and chanting. These five things only, if you strictly remain on these principles, see how you are respectable. Immediately you'll be respected. Is it not?
Akṣayānanda: Everyone knows that it should be done.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. People, advanced in education, still they are inimical, one man to another. If you are passing on in the street, the gentleman's house there is a signboard, "Beware of the dogs. Don't come in," because he cannot believe anyone. You go to the airport, any high-class standard man. They search out the pocket. So nobody is believable. So this is the result of modern education. You cannot find out an ideal character man.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Richard Webster: Is this due to machines, do you think, to the prevalence of machines?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is due to third-class, fourth-class men. There is no first-class men. The brāhmaṇas are considered to be first-class men, the kṣatriyas are considered to be second-class men, and the vaiśyas, they are third-class men, and rest, all fourth-class and fifth-class. So at the present moment there is third-class, some, and all fourth-class and fifth-class. There is no first-class and second-class men. So unless they are, at least some of them are first-class men, ideal, the human society is doomed. It cannot be peaceful. Full of śūdras, fourth-class men. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass." There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement. Everyone has got his own ideal, and the fight is going on, and the poor man in the state, they are suffering. Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food.
Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: This is civilization. What is this nonsense civilization? Now there is petrol problem. I see so many buses, and not a single man, one or two men. And for two men a big huge bus is being run, and so much petrol is consumed unnecessarily. I have seen. I went from Nairobi to London in a plane—only five passengers. Out of that, four passengers we were. Why? Why this nonsense? And there is petrol problem now. They are creating simply, the so-called advancement of civilization, creating problems, that's all. And that is due to these rascal leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (
SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the
ideal of life, what is the aim of life. They are creating hodge-podge civilization and putting the mass of people in chaotic condition. This is the sum and substance. I do not know whether you'll agreed with me, but this is my study of the whole situation.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome: Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Satsvarūpa: Is this an ideal solution or a practical one?
Prabhupāda: This is practical.
Satsvarūpa: Because sometimes we say that actually we cannot change the course of the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our society will be ideal by practical application.
Satsvarūpa: If we stopped all the transportation industry, there would be huge unemployment. It would be a great...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome: Dhanañjaya: But they are saying they used all the wood for paper, so there's no more wood.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paper you can make from grass, from cotton. So many other fibers. You don't require wood. You grow grass, sufficient quantity, and you make paper. Why should you publish so many rubbish literatures? Just like you were telling. The Times of India, the newspaper. (Sound of cars) This is the difficulty, walking on street. Therefore I wanted to go to the park. This is disturbance. So paper, if we don't produce unnecessary paper, there is no scarcity. From grass. You produce grass, huge quantity of grass, you will get paper. Cotton also. First-class paper. In India also, the rejected paper. From rejected paper you can get another paper also. But they throw it away in your country. Collect this rejected paper and again put it into paper. And why should you publish all rubbish literature? Simply publish Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. What is the use of this newspaper, nonsense newspaper, huge, huge quantity? So everything will be nice provided you become ideal. Live in community. Produce your own food. Even you can produce your own paper. You don't require printing of so many books. If there is one book, others can imitate, or copy. There is no need of printing. Formerly they used to do that.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome: Bhagavān: Some people would be engaged in copying books.
Prabhupāda: No, you engage yourself. If you want book, that book, you copy yourself. Why someone should be engaged for you? You have got enough time. You are not going to the factory or hundred miles for your earning livelihood. You are on the local space. You have got enough time. You just take, copy. That's all. Minimize your unnecessary waste of time. Save time. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go back to home. This is our idea. Instead of chanting twenty-five rounds, you chant hundred rounds. That is utilization of proper time. Instead of begetting cats and dogs, you just beget one child, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the ideal life. What is the use of using sex life unnecessarily? Therefore only for begetting nice child one should have sex life. This is ideal life. Not that you use sex life, contraceptive method. This is all demonism. But they cannot do without it. Because they have no other engagement, they do not know how nice Kṛṣṇa is and how pleasurable it is to reciprocate with Kṛṣṇa, Therefore they go to the dog's pleasure, sex life on the street and there, on the beach. That's all. They have been educated like dogs. Therefore they want it.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome: Bhagavān: What about our city temples?
Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time it may go on. But as we make progress, there will be no necessity. City means... For the present we have got. Because the city is there, we are there. But suppose the city is closed. We shall be there? If the city is closed, you still will be there?
Yogeśvara: But we can predict that the cities will go on for quite some time.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it will go on, but when they will see that your ideal community is better than city life, people will take to it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When one gets a better standard of life, naturally he will give up the lower standard of life.
Dhanañjaya: But won't the countryside be spoiled if there is an atomic war?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The what is called...?
Dhanañjaya: Radioactivity.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome: Yogeśvara: So this is another problem for Bhagavān's book.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That... You have created this animal civilization. Now they are coming out as naked animals. This is the result. Now you have to reform them. That reformation is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to make an example, what is actually human life. Then others will see. You cannot stop them. But some of them, those who are intelligent, they will see, "Yes, here is life." As they are coming to nakedness, they will come to this, our mode of life. So you have to become an ideal society. You live locally, and be self-sufficient. They will see that it is possible to live locally without movement, and still highly cultured men, self-sufficient. That is required.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome: Yogeśvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.
Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome: Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way you've been describing our solutions to the problems of the world, they seem to be on two levels. One is the extended solution, that is to say, the ultimate solution of Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of extended. You keep yourself in a limited solution. And then, when it is appreciated it will be automatically extended. You don't touch the extended. You become ideal civilized man. Others will follow.
Yogeśvara: Well, for example, ultimately, we want to live locally. These cities are not necessary.
Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva: Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So then the first point is to educate people who they are serving, they are working for.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, there must be a class of men, ideal men, brain; people will follow them. My request is therefore that you should become ideal men. If we fight... Now there is fighting amongst ourself. That is very disappointment to me. The same politics, intrigues. The nature is so strong that brain becomes, what is called? Fag brain? Brain becomes deranged.
Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: Ah. So the crows came to pick up the grapes, and the king was passing, he picked up, "Oh, who is that artist?" He became rich man in association. No, I have seen in that hall. So first-class picture. I have never seen such nice picture. Exactly life. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.
Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians.
Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: And all people... Any good thing, it is meant for some people, not for all people. But if there is an ideal class of men, the others will follow. Jewel. Jewel is always costly. Still everyone aspires, "If I get a jewel." That is wanted. Not that everybody can possess jewel, but still, everybody will appreciate jewel.
Yogeśvara: There are a lot of people who don't accept it because they think, "Maybe it is another imitation jewel. Maybe I'll get cheated again."
Prabhupāda: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils."
Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva: Yogeśvara: He says first of all, so far as cooperation is concerned, he is just one man. He is the president, although he is the president, still, he is only one man, and he can only speak in terms of cooperating with the spiritual movement among the more enlightened members of his group.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is required, because if the enlightened men of the society does something, others will follow. It is not that the general mass of people has to be educated. They will be automatically educated. They will follow. If the enlightened man is living in such a way that he is going to be transferred to the spiritual world, then others will follow. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). At least, there must be a class of men, ideal men, that they are preparing themselves for transferring to the spiritual world. Then people will see that "Here is the ideal man," and they will try to follow. (French) But if people see that "He is also like us. He is also drinking, he is also eating meat, and he is also having illicit sex," then where is the ideal man? Everyone is implicated with these things, sinful life. (French)
Yogeśvara: He knows about Guru Maharaji. He says he has so many people following him. The only conclusion that we can have is that there are many, many people who are looking for spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: That is a fact. People, especially in the western world, they are actually looking after some spiritual emancipation, but they think that from India... Actually, that is a fact. Therefore, any rascal comes, they go around him. But why the western people, those who are on the top of educational and social position, they try to understand what is spirit life and follow them, and place an ideal life so that others may follow. (French)
Yogeśvara: Some of his members, some friends, were even visitors at the temples at Benares.
Prabhupāda: That is as a tourist, but that is not understanding of spiritual life.
Dr. Sallaz: I don't speak of tourist. I speak of a holy man. Be careful. Not a tourist. As a man having attained very high in truth, and for this reason, and not as a tourist. He was at the time crowded like you.
Prabhupāda: Holy man means...
Dr. Sallaz: (French)
Prabhupāda: The real purpose of going to holy places is to find out there the holy man and take knowledge from him. That is real going to the holy places of pilgrimage.
Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva: Prabhupāda: First of all, the quality. The quality of Christian is that he must obey the ten commandments. If he does not obey, then where is his Christianity? That is stated, guṇa-karma: by quality and work one becomes Christian or Hindu or Muslim. There must be the quality. But when the spirituality develops either from Christianity or Hindu or Muslim—it doesn't matter—then there is. Find out that verse, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Read it. This is the ideal of equality.
Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris: Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that.
Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris: Prabhupāda: A fourteen years old cannot be induced to marry a twenty-six years girl. That is unnatural. And by medical examination, it is found that he's at least thirty-two years. It is declared in the medical, and still, the rascals following him. That he's cheating by talking false things. So in one sense, the Western boys and young generation, they are actually hankering after some spiritual life. So any Indian, so-called sādhu and guru comes, they go there. But they are cheated unfortunately. So you make your society so strong that you be not cheated, and others may not cheat. Then it will be first-class. And if you make another society of cheaters and cheated, there is no profit. Therefore you have to follow the rules and regulations very strictly and become serious. Then you'll be ideal. People are in need of some spiritual energy. Therefore, as soon as some swamis or guru comes, they flock together to get some food. But these rascals are cheating. So you don't do that.
Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris: Prabhupāda: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany: Vedavyāsa: So he says yes, he accepts our life now is not perfect, that we are conditioned. But he says we shouldn't construct an ideal human being, but we should accept our life as it is now.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is that you are not perfect. Therefore the idea should be how to become perfect. (German)
Vedavyāsa: (Vedavyāsa is translating from here on) So he asks, "How to become perfect, as human being or as spirit?" Because he sees now only human beings. So this is the problem how to become perfect as human being, not as spirit.
Prabhupāda: Why you are sticking to human being although it is imperfect? Why you are sticking to human being? (German) You are accepting this human being is not perfect, and still, why you are sticking to this imperfect life? Now, in what way you like this human form of body? What is the purpose? (German)
Vedavyāsa: So he says his body is just an instrument of communication, and through this body he can communicate with other people.
Prabhupāda: So this is also possible by the birds and beasts.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii: Jayatīrtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas: Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says why do you put so much emphasis on the personalism after liberation because it seems like to him that the ideal perfect thing would be the unity rather than having something separate.
Prabhupāda: That is your ideal, imperfect ideal. Because you are imperfect.
Professor: Are you perfect master?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, because I am heard from the perfect. I am not perfect, but what I say, that is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this dictaphone, but he has learned from the father, "This is dictaphone," so when he says, "This is dictaphone," it is perfect. The child is not perfect, but because he has heard from his father perfect, so the knowledge is perfect.
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas: Prabhupāda: Religion cannot be many; religion is one. If anyone says there are many religions, that, he does not know what is religion. Just like science: two plus two is equal to four. It is equally applicable everywhere. You cannot say that "To the Christian two plus two equal to five," the "Christian science" or "Christian mathematics." That you cannot say. Science and mathematics is the same everywhere. If God is one, therefore knowledge of God should be one. There cannot be two.
Professor: No, that's ideally, but is not so.
Prabhupāda: You hear. Because you imperfect, you have so many things. But we hear differently.
Professor: I know that there is only one God.
Prabhupāda: We say that God is one. Whether you accept it or not? Unless God is one, there cannot be God. God cannot be many. God means, in the dictionary it is said, "Supreme Being." The Supreme Being can be one. If there is competition of Supreme Being, then he is not Supreme Being. That is the philosophy. That is the philosophy. Then we have to find out who is that Supreme Being. You cannot say... You find somebody who has got little power. You cannot say, "Now here is God." The supreme power, that is God. Just like money, that is also one of the qualification of God. But money, He has got all the money. You may have got some money, some millions dollars. I may have got little more than that. But nobody can say, "I have got all the money." Or one can say that "I have got all the money," then He is God.
Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: Our ideal is that we have got this body, and there are some bodily necessities. That is the prime necessities. So we do not neglect these necessities of the body. But our culture is spiritual culture. Generally, people, being disturbed by the bodily necessities, they do not inquire about the spiritual identity. Actually this is the distinction between human life and animal life. (Hindi) (break) Our real purpose of this mission is to educate people about his spiritual identity. All people, they are misguided by the idea-(aside:) Don't do—that he is this body, everyone, all over the world, especially in the Western countries.
Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required. So it is not recommended for ordinary persons. But this is also unnecessary. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime, that such things, which is the beginning of human life, that is also unnecessary. Iha bahya age kaha ara. Bahya means "this is superflous. You speak something higher than this." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So that is not very easy thing. First of all, we have to live very regulated life. Sannyāsa life is that regulated life. And then we can enter into the real life. That is ideal.
Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The peo... I didn't see one village man who was fatty, not one.
Prabhupāda: Not one. They're extracting money from them, making them intoxicated and exploiting. This is the fault. Very precarious condition. (break) So if you can make one example (break) India, that spot, very good example, then we can capture the whole India. Simply, we have got enough land. Give them enough food. Make them stout and strong, both the animal and man. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let them hear. Everything will be all right. Everything will be ideal.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a brāhmaṇa, I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. They said, "Swamiji, (Hindi)," But if there is not a ideal class of brāhmaṇa, then how you can say that you become moralist? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Governor: No, all people... One or two could be taken out of many.
Prabhupāda: No, that I asked him. Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?
Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."
Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana: Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.
Governor: No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the varṇāśrama-dharma, of the brāhmaṇa, and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.
Prabhupāda: No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a brāhmaṇa, he become a electrician. Why?
Governor: I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also...
Prabhupāda: Engineer?
Governor: A mechanical engineer.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth: Prabhupāda: (laughing lightly) You cannot say that I have introduced it. It is already there. As it is there in India, it is also everywhere. It may be under different names. The four classes are already there, everywhere. The... Even in Muslim, they have also got the (indistinct), what is called, mohallas, priestly class. They have got. We are introducing the systematic caste system, but caste system is already there, everywhere. Maybe under different names. And it is necessary. The caste system is there as a matter of necessity. You cannot abolish it. But it is now existing in a deformed manner. People should be systematic and organized. That we are trying to. Not that a new thing we are trying to introduce. It is already there. Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth: Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.
Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth: Justin Murphy: Thank you. I wish you all well, and maybe I should think along those lines myself. It's been most interesting talking to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is necessary to create a class of men first class, ideal. And if you all create fourth-class men, then there cannot be peace. It is not possible.
Justin Murphy: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Justin Murphy: Excellent talking to you. Thank you very much and I wish you well in Melbourne and then in Hawaii?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fiji and Hawaii. You can keep his address. He may talk with you.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Otherwise the society was divided into four classes—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up. Not cent percent, but even one percent man becomes ideal, the ninety-nine percent will see and follow. But there is no ideal man. That is the defect. So just like we are training them as ideal man, by character, by religion, by behavior, by education. That is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you can see practically what was their previous life and what they are now. So government should establish an institution to create ideal men. We can help. We can help.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Director: But it would be very difficult for the people who start out with us. Would be possible with the kids that start out with us.
Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don't mind, I don't find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?
Director: But homosexual is a sickness.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Director: What you people say what ideal to you is not ideal to somebody else?
Prabhupāda: I am giving the example ideal character.
Director: Yeah, but that's one opinion.
Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Basically, basically one must be first-class ideal man. That is wanted.
Director: That's why it's so very difficult. You have to work on your own, and...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our own program, it is not vox populi. You find out fault with us.
Director: Huh?
Prabhupāda: You find out what is our fault. Then you can disagree. But when you see everything is nice, how you will not accept it? Unless you are biased.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.
Director: How do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?
Devotee: He says how do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?
Director: In China he's the ideal man.
Devotee: He's a Communist.
Prabhupāda: His ideal is all right. His ideal, Communist idea that everyone should be happy, that is good idea. But they do not know how make ev... Just like they are taking care of the human being in the state, but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they are godless, they do not know the animal is also a living being and the human being also living being. So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animal should be cut throat. That is the defect. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he is equal to everyone. That is learned. "I take care of my brother and I kill you," that is not right. That is going on. Everywhere. Nationalism. Nation... National means one who has taken birth in that land. But the animal, poor animal, because they cannot make any protest, send them to the slaughterhouse. And if there were ideal men, they would have protested, "Oh, why you are doing this? Let them live also. You live also.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Director: I'm quite sure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we don't count for percentage. Let personally become ideal man. The same example: There is no percentage in comparison to the stars and one moon. What is the percentage? There are millions of stars. It is, what is the percentage, one and million? It is practically zero percentage. But still, because it is moon it is more sufficient than all these small stars. So produce moon.
Director: Yes, but that moon is big, and you can recognize it, but another man, just another star...
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. If you cannot make as good as moon...
Director: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: You cannot make, but it is possible if they are ideal men.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Devotee: He said that "I could not live without illicit sex life."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mostly the bachelor daddy. They pose themself as bachelor, but they are having at least three times sex with contraceptive method, you see. This is going on. And they are accepted as standard. And if you want to reform it, then it is (indistinct). The whole basic wrong is they have become godless animals, that's all. The only method is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other second method. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. You cannot raise anybody to high qualities unless he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is a subtle fact. And example is there. Because some of them have taken to Kṛṣṇa conscious they are ideal. All others, what is the value? He is a leader, and he says, "Yes, illicit sex is all right. We are enjoying by contraceptive method." If the leaders do something wrong, the others will follow. (to devotee:) I think you should continue as a gṛhastha for the time being.
Devotee: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: Unless you are ripe old age. At least up to fifty years. What is your age now?
Devotee: Um, twenty-eight.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-eight. So up to fifty years you remain gṛhastha and take care of wife, children. Work honestly and attend the... You prove an ideal gṛhastha. That will be very nice. Don't change your mind.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.
Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Because there are different grades. But at least one class of men should remain in the society as ideal, God conscious. Just like for our usual life we require lawyers, we require engineer, we require medical practitioner, we require so many, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who are fully God conscious and ideal. That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man.
Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne: Guest 2: The ideal in western societies is all people should be equal.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not ideal and neither it is possible. Not that everyone is going to be lawyer. Even though everyone has got the ambition to become a first-class lawyer and earn like anything, but that is not possible. So therefore it requires selection, who will become a lawyer, who will become a scientist, who will become a medical man...
Guest 2: In our society you are taught in school that if you try hard enough, you can become prime minister.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no harm. You become prime minister. But I say that not everyone is capable to become prime minister. That has to be. If one man is not capable and if he takes education to become, he will waste his time.
Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne: Guest 2: Our system, I think is not very good. But everyone is taught this way in our system.
Prabhupāda: No, there must be... Just like first-class men. They should judge for which purpose this man is. Practical psychology there is. I think. They can decide like that. Anyway, the society must have all divisions of men, and then the society is perfect. We have already many divisions, but we are lacking one division, that, the first-class men, first-class ideal men. That is lacking.
Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji: Prabhupāda: Therefore our paper's name is Back to Godhead. Don't make any false advancement. You will never be happy. This is our propaganda. It is called nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stop material way of life; begin spiritual way of life and come to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (
BG 4.9). If you cultivate spiritual life, then, after giving up this body... We have to give up. This is material body. And after giving up this body, we can accept..., we can continue our spiritual body or we can accept again material body. That will require our sense how to cultivate. So if we cultivate spiritual life, some percentage, not that everyone will be able, at least the higher class, higher section of the society, if they cultivate spiritual life and remain
ideal, so others may follow. This is our propaganda.
Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles: Dharmādhyakṣa: Many of the students at the Graduate Theological Union, they might want to come to our college to take just one or two courses. Would it be all right for them to do that?
Prabhupāda: No, everyone is welcome. But they must see what is our ideal. Then one day they will also come. So our ideal should be always there, not that we make some compromise. Then it will not be effective.
Dharmādhyakṣa: In the catalogue we say that to get a degree one must be following the regulative principles, that that is as much an important requirement as the study, academic study.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important thing. Otherwise, just like in India, there are caste brāhmaṇas, but they have no ideal, and therefore it is not working.
Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Bahya means external, and abhyāntara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyābhyāntaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified, brāhmaṇa. And who is not purified, he is muciḥ. (break) We have to present an
ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don't want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) ...not expect everyone to become brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. Because the three qualities are working, you cannot make all the population on the modes of goodness. That is not possible. There must be people in passion and ignorance. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ, four division? He could have done one kind of men. But all of them can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they are guided properly. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ (
BG 18.46). One can get perfection, even becoming a śūdra, provided he is properly guided, not that only the brāhmaṇas can become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: Controlling the mind, controlling the senses, truthful. He will speak truth in any circumstances. Even to his enemy he will speak the truth. And clean, and very simple, tolerant. And any knowledge, he has got some, I mean to say, strength over it. Ultimate knowledge, Brahmān, he believes in that and he has... Brahma janātītī brāhmaṇaḥ, This is first-class man. So it is not expected that everyone will become first-class. but there must be a section in the society, ideal first-class. And they will be advisor to the rest. These brāhmaṇas, they will not take part in politics, but those who are politicians, administrators, they should take advice from these first-class men, how to rule, how to control, what is the ideal. So the ruling class, they are called kṣatriyas.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: They are self-supported. Suppose there is a blacksmith. If you require some black iron instrument, you go there and he will prepare immediately. Say, an oil crusher, extracting oil. So weaver, self-supported. Now these things have been taken in larger scale. That is called industry. But actually these things are meant for the śūdras, fourth-class men. So the problem is that if we keep men fourth-class or increase only fourth-class men, so these things are automatic, the resultant action. Therefore, in the western countries especially, everywhere, all over the world, the attempt should be how to create first-class, second-class. At least these two classes required: good politicians, administrators, and good advisors. So this program we are placing before the world. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I would suggest that in your country you are resourceful. You can take up this movement very seriously. And it is not expected that cent percent of the population will become first-class, but there must be ideal groups of first-class, second-class, third-class and the rest, fourth-class. That is required.
Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago: Mayor: It takes a great deal of discipline to try to achieve these ideals, and that's one thing that seems to be difficult these days, especially in young people, to have any sense of the need for discipline at all.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Jagadīśa: He says young people today have no sense of discipline. They don't know what it means to be...
Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances.
Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Lt. Mozee: I recognize, sir, that your time is very valuable and I won't delay you much longer. If I could return to my original purpose for coming in the..., what words you may have that would assist us, my superintendent and my department, in the reduction of crime, other than, I recognize, that the first and the foremost way would be a return to God as you said, that there is no doubt about that. But is there something else that you may know or that you may feel that you may be able to say that would assist us in a reduction less than the ideal?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already in the beginning said, that give us facilities, the authorities, to chant the holy name of God and distribute prasādam. Prasādam means...
Lt. Mozee: Yes, I understand.
Prabhupāda: ...some refreshment as remnants of foodstuff of God. Then it will make tremendous change. I came from India alone; now I have got so many followers. So what did I do? I did the same thing. I asked them to sit down, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and distribute them little prasādam. This should be done in a mass scale, and then things will become very peaceful. It is fact. So I want little cooperation of the authorities to give me the facility, how I can call many men together, chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and I supply them little refreshment, that's all.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man. So this Gurukula means from the childhood age we are training them so that in future it will be easier. That is the purpose of Gurukula.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: This is first-class. Now śamo damaḥ... Śamaḥ means controlling the mind, mind is always peaceful. You can train. Then controlling the senses. Then truthful. Then full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life. These are the qualification of first-class man. Everything is there. If you train a boy to become first-class man, he can become first-class man. If you don't train, then he will become a debauch, criminal, disturbing. So we are training in the Gurukula to become first-class men. This is our aim. Unless in the society an ideal first-class man, then how one will become, or follow the ideal? There is no ideal. Now what is the idea of first-class man now? Can I ask you? What is your idea of first-class man? Whom do you call first-class man?
Jayatīrtha: Do you know any first-class men?
Mrs. Wax: I can't find any in the society. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. We have no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is drunkard, everyone smoker, everyone is gambler, everyone is illicit sex, where is first-class man? So in the absence of first-class man there must be criminals.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: That is the defect. We have no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is drunkard, everyone smoker, everyone is gambler, everyone is illicit sex, where is first-class man? So in the absence of first-class man there must be criminals. Aiye. So there is a need of first-class men, first-class men and second-class men. Third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, they are automatically there. So at the present moment fourth-class, fifth-class men. Third-class is also very scarcely found, and there is no question of first-class, second-class. But as in the full body we require brain, we require arm, we require belly, we require leg... Everything is required for different purposes of work. But at the present moment there is no place for the first-class men. When we ask our students that "You become free from all these four classes of sinful activity: no illicit sex, no meat-eating," people laugh: "Oh, why you are asking?" They do not know what is the ideal man. They think, "Illicit sex, what is wrong there? Meat-eating, what is wrong there?" They do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore all fourth-class men. They cannot understand even what is the value of these things. So you cannot be happy with fourth-class men. At least there must be a section, first-class men. That we are trying to create, a first-class man from this Gurukula.
Mrs. Wax: The ten-year-old boys who left Gurukula and went to Vṛndāvana and then went to Māyāpur, what will they...? They will be trained in the divisions there and come back?
Prabhupāda: No, that is the ideal, mind completely controlled, senses completely controlled, truthful and simple life. In this way they will be trained up gradually. And we have got one hundred books like that. If they read all these books and if they are trained up in their character, then they will be, in future, first-class men.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: But because women are less intelligent, they should remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son. Then she is first-class. That is the injunction. Woman should remain dependent in childhood upon first-class father, in youthhood upon first-class husband, and in old age upon first-class son. Woman is never independent. If she becomes independent, her life is not very good. She must agree to remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son-three stages.
Mrs. Wax: She must become dependent on her son because her husband would ideally become a sannyāsī. Is that...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You will find that Kapiladeva is instructing mother. That picture you can show her. Third Canto? You see the picture in the cover? The first-class son is instructing mother. Her husband has taken sannyāsa and gone away. The son, first-class son, is instructing mother. That is the book. You will find full instruction to the mother. You can read one of the passages. You can read, Nitāi, what He is instructing to His mother. The mother is questioning, and son is answering.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: So this full book is the answer and question between mother and son. So, although she is mother, she has given birth to the child, but she has become now dependent on this child for good instruction. This is ideal society.
Mrs. Wax: Thank you for answering my questions.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago: Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child. So every father and mother should take this vow, that "Unless our children become first-class, we don't want children." This is ideal.
Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago: Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.
Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco: Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans: Prabhupāda: Let people be engaged. Machine means one man or two man working... That will mean unemployment. Machine means unemployment. The principle should be that everyone is employed. Either brāhmaṇa, either kṣatriya, either vaiśya or śūdra. Nobody should become idle and gossiping, and sleeping, then utilize... This should be principle. Everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is successful. And self-sufficient. If we have got spoiling living program, these are necessities. Growing, cultivating, producing, there will be not possibility of, and we don't want more than the necessity. If by God's grace we get more then you can make sale, we are not going to work for selling purpose. Then money will be there. How to get money, how to get money? And as soon as you get money, more than necessity, then sense gratification, then this, that, this, that, then you become implicated. Ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta... ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). As soon as you become implicated with material want, gṛha, kṣetra, vittair, ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta, children, wife, friendship, then the false ego, "I am this body and this is my property," will increase. For that is material world. People do not know the end of life, or the aim of life. They are misguided, hence the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to give them an ideal way of life. So this is very nice place. We have got small lakes also. Natural we have?
Nityānanda: No, you can make them.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans: Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very good. Winter?
Nityānanda: No snow, it's always rain. We can grow vegetables in the summer, and different vegetables in the winter. So the cows they can stay outside all year. They don't have to stay in the barn, it's warm enough.
Prabhupāda: Very ideal spot. Develop it and show how we can live peacefully.
Nityānanda: This combination of a temple in the city where they can preach and bring people out to their farm is very good.
Prabhupāda: ...healthy place.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans: Satsvarūpa: Well, the other difficulty, you brought this up several years ago, was that the men who take many wives have to be very select. Otherwise men will be attracted to join our movement for sex life, having different wives.
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans: Prabhupāda: Public we don't care. We... What is the public? We have got our own public here. So pub... What is the public? All rascals. They are killing cows and drinking and topless dance, bottomless dance. What is the value of this public? All rascals. I don't give any importance to this class of public, only after sense gratification, that's all. They have no ideals of life. They do not know what is God. What is the value of this public? Mūḍhas, they have been described, mūḍhas. You know the meaning of mūḍha?
Devotee (1): Ass.
Prabhupāda: Ass. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama.
Nityānanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food independently?
Prabhupāda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Community means work everything for the community.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans: Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active. (indistinct) Tamo-guṇa means sleeping and laziness. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa. Every saintly man can avoid these two things—laziness and sleeping. Of course, as much you require, sleeping allowed, not more than... And keep everyone active, man or woman-all. Then it will be ideal society.
Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad: Kartikeya: We'll be there, at Ideal House(?). You can write down. They are residing there. All of them can come afterwards.
Yaśomatīnandana: Only Guru Mahārāja and two, three other disciples are going.
Kartikeya: Two people are going. We are continuing the program even at Rajana-samiti for three more days. At that time you can come in the afternoon.
Indian man (6): So they are staying for one month.
Kartikeya: Not one month, but I want to be at least one more week.
Girirāja: I think tomorrow would be the best day for a group of devotees to come.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amānin mānadena kīrtanīya sad hariḥ. This is the process to become very humble.
Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius: Prabhupāda: This is going on all over the world. You know George Harrison? He has earned money with so great hard labor, and he has given us a house in London, fifty-five lakhs' worth. Another boy, Alfred Ford, he's the great grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given. He is giving still money. He is prepared with all his money. So those who are after money, material things, we have to induce them that "Spend for me," that's all, and let him earn. So far we are concerned, we shall live very simple life, simply in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa does not go to construct big, big house. He simply constructs his character, and the other kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, they offer him, "Please come here and sit down." Therefore the division is... One who is unable to become a brāhmaṇa, let him become kṣatriya. If he cannot become kṣatriya, let him become a vaiśya. Otherwise let him remain a śūdra. But there should be ideal class. So we are trying to create an ideal society of brāhmaṇas. Then people will be benefited. And if everyone is śūdra, rascal, then what people will be benefited? They do not know how to live. The brāhmaṇas will give idea, "Live like this. You will be happy."
Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius: Guest (1): Yes. We should go there and live with them for...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have already suggested that you take land and be an ideal community.
Guest (1): No, if we don't get land, Swamijī. I would suggest if, for example, one week, four or three, Swamijī... (Hindi) What he wants to say...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Very good idea, very good idea.
Guest (1): That would be mercy to make the people conscious. And then again and again have here a same thing and then they would be influenced.
Prabhupāda: Good idea. It is very good idea.
Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban: Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea!" But here at the present moment there is no such idea! Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is happening actually by this movement.
Prabhupāda: We are not for material opulence. We are for ideal character. That is wanted. But they have no idea that there can be a class of men, ideal character, ideal knowledge, ideal advancement. They have no such idea. "Simply bring money and enjoy sense gratification," that's all. In that way they will never be happy, but foolish person, they have no leader to give them ideal and neither by nature they are not inclined. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Who is giving them ideal that "Come to God, and you will be satisfied"? Nobody is giving. They are simply durāśayā. They are thinking by material opulence they will be happy. This is their ignorance. Therefore so much struggle all over the world. It is not the question of India or America. It is the material way of life.
Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg: Prabhupāda: Well, knowledge means it is meant for few men. If you want men without any university degree, you will get many thousands. But as soon as say, "We want graduate," it will be minimized. Or as soon as you say "postgraduate," it will be still minimized. So as soon as there is question of knowledge, the number of people will be diminished. So we cannot expect mass of people. But if there are good persons, exemplified person, vivid example, that will help the whole society—"There is ideal class. They know everything."
Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay: Prabhupāda: This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me.
Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay: Prabhupāda: And daṁpatye ratim eva hi: "Husband and wife means sex." Daṁpatye ratim eva hi. This, everything is there.
Dr. Patel: The ideals were established so high that it was difficult for the common folk to reach that.
Prabhupāda: That is not for common folk. It is for the rājarṣis-imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ—not for the loafer class. Therefore the whole population was trained how to become rājarṣi. Now the loafer class, they are taking the place of rājarṣi. That is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says that this science is meant for the rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). He did not go to preach to the loafer class.
Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi: Prabhupāda: What is that?
Harikeśa: It says, "Invincible are the Korean people who are rallied firmly with one ideology and will under the brilliant rays of the immortal juch (?) idea of Comrade..."
Prabhupāda: All ideals.
Indian man (6): This is South Korea or North Korea?
Harikeśa: South, I think.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)
Harikeśa: They are becoming very advanced, making big skyscrapers.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big hotel.
Prabhupāda: Hotel? Oh.
Tejās: Hotel and office.
Prabhupāda: Those who are not cooperating...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They should be asked to leave.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must cooperate.
Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay: Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)
Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...
Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.
Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.
Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand: Harikeśa: No, no. I mean there's no need for any organized Communist movement, because according to their philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're fools. They're as fools. They are simply criticizing the capitalists, that much. That much, there is something ideal that the state property should be equally divided. That's a good thesis. But they do not know that it is not the ultimate solution. You do not know who is the proprietor. You do not know the proprietor. These things belong to Him. You are using it. I am thinking that "You are proprietor." But actually you are not proprietor. He is proprietor. If that is the position, then I take it from you that: "You cannot possess. I shall possess." Then what is my possess? The same thing. As you took it, took it out from this man, so I took it, take it from you. So my position is the same. If you cannot find out who is the actual proprietor, then you may change hands. The problem remains there, that it, it does not belong to you. You are forcibly snatching from the proprietor, or without knowing the proprietor, you are making arrangement. What is the value of this arrangement?
Harikeśa: So it's just the animal philosophy of the strong dominating the weak...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Angry... With shoes. We beat them with shoes that "You have created a civilization to work like ass, and ideal is to become a pig. What is this civilization? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puru... (SB 2.3.19). And for their votes you become a president. What you are better than a pig? A pig votes for another pig, big pig. That's all. How people will be happy?"
Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they clapped.
Harikeśa: Yes. (laughter)
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Harikeśa: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: No, no. White men. Yes. And in Melbourne the priests also appreciated. So any sane man will appreciate our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These are very strong words, that "You have created a civilization of pig, and for making perfect that civilization you are working like ass." So what is the advancement? A ass is trying to become a pig. What is that civilization? The ideal is to become a pig, and for that, fulfillment of that idea, they are working like ass. Is it not? Just see. Think over.
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Every śloka there is śabda, dhātu, everything. Nominative, objective. (break) ...some you are going to say, just study yourself, whether it is not the civilization of asses and pigs. You have to understand first of all. Is it not? They are working hard like an ass just to become an ideal pig. Is it not this civilization?
Harikeśa: Having sex with mother, daughter, sister...
Prabhupāda: Yes. How śāstra has picked up the example, just see. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate... (SB 5.5.1). What is that?
Harikeśa: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye.
Prabhupāda: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This is not civilization. This is civilization, tapasya: no meat-eating, no this, no this, that, and become perfect, ideal brāhmaṇa life, satya śama dama śuci jñāna vijñāna. This is civilization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless you become civilized like this, there is no opportunity of brahma-jijñāsā. And so long you do not inquire about Brahman, that you remain, that pigs and hogs and asses. If human civilization is wasted to cultivate the pig civilization, naturally, "All right, you come here. Become a pig now. Take this body." Kṛṣṇa will say, "Nature, prakṛti, he got this chance to become human being, but has misused. Kindly give him a body of pig."
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Harikeśa: Pigs don't like to live in a clean house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a story in Bhāgavata that Indra was cursed to become a pig. So after some time there was mismanagement in the heavenly kingdom. Brahmā personally came, "Indra, anyway, you became pig. Now you come with me." "Huh? How can I go? I have got so much responsibility." Then he was killed and took to heaven. So any life, any abominable condition, everyone is thinking, "I am perfect." This is called māyā. Any abominable condition, he is thinking, everyone is thinking, that "I am perfect. I have nothing to advance." This is called māyā. They do not know what is perfection. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The ideal perfection they do not know. They are trying that "We shall make this pig life adjusted to civilized life." Is it possible? Pig life and adjusting to civilized life? Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall get down? (break) Nobody will accept. But if you explain that "You are no better than pigs and hogs and asses," then they will accept. So we have to take the idea from Bhāgavata and explain it for their understanding. That is wanted. (break) People are working so hard. Is it pleasure? But why they are working? They are working with the only hope that "Night, I shall go home, eat nicely and have sex with my wife." That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Otherwise why they will work so hard? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Los Angeles we have got a plant like this next to my window. That land for others, but it comes to my window.
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Harikeśa: It distinctly says in some places in Bhāgavatam that the human being's food is four-legged animals with a cloven hoof.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you remain animal. But that is not the ideal, that you remain animal. That is culture. If you want to remain animal, then it is all right. If you want to remain pig, you eat whatever you like. But if you don't want to remain a pig, then you have got to make discrimination. You have to take kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Because it is Bhāgavatam, it is written that one animal is food for another animal. That is for the animal. And I have already said that this Vedic civilization is meant for making the animal a perfect person.
Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Even Śrīdhara Mahārāja says that "This pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, we simply thought that it is an ideal, but you have practically done this." He admits that. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember.
Dayānanda: In London you said that you were changing crows to swans.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dayānanda: It is impossible to change a crow to swan but you are changing crows to swans.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in reading the description of Jagāi and Mādhāi, they don't seem as bad as we were.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) We shall go this way? No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have time.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha: "I am lower than the Jagāi Mādhāi."
Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: Just see how much forgiving. This is saintly character. They're killing, and still forgiving. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. Christ is very ideal character, but these Christians, they not dignified him-degraded. So you can get on?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...how to respect food grain. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone should understand, "This food grain is supplied by Kṛṣṇa for our living. How can I disrespect?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we say, prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda eating." Prasāda-sevā. Prasāda should be accepted as Kṛṣṇa. And our eating means to serve Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa has given. Eat them. Yes. That's all."
Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura: Siddha-svarūpa: If their main leader, Mao Tse Tung.... He's more of that school, but there are.... They call them revisionists. They say they're like the Russians, and that they're just.... They're always attacking them for wanting to copy the West. It's their same attack. They attack the Russians for becoming capitalists. They're puritan. They're trying to have pure communism. They have very great ideals, and the other school wants.... They think that they want to get in on the action of the trade and industrialization. But they are actually about equal in power. It's interesting. Right now, actually, it's very hard to get into China because there's a new feud that has come to the surface. There's top leaders that have been taken through the streets, denounced as being materialists, and they've taken their clothes from their wives' closets with mink coats and fancy clothes...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all.... We shall first of all try to sell our books without any discussion. "As trade..., as trade representative, we have come. See our book." Go to the professors, go to the.... "We have got this support," like that.
Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur: Prabhupāda: So nobody is powerful alone. In Kṛṣṇa's service also, combine together. That is wanted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is no question of being alone anywhere, because the guru is always with one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ideal.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Guru is also depending, and combination means I depend on you, you depend on me, that's all. That is combination. That's all. So prasādam? Now, we are fasting.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are fasting.
Prabhupāda: In the evening there will be prasādam. Arrangement is being made for?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are taking very nice care of us here, Prabhupāda.
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Next year it will be very nice. Our, these rooms will be complete. I think this year also, not very much inconvenience.
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the ideal is vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and depend on Kṛṣṇa and live there. And that is perfection. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and remain, depending on Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Lokanātha: There are no forests left.
Hari-śauri: The whole material world's a forest.
Prabhupāda: There are so many forests in America, full of forests still. Africa, so many forests, big, big forests.
Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: And you do not know. Cinema is not cause. Cause is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: But because the godlessness starts from there.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: Who are the ideals of these women? The cinema actresses. Who were the ideals of our mothers? Sāvitrī and Sītā.
Prabhupāda: There are so many, so many.
Dr. Patel: That is very important. This is very important, sir.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There are many cinemas in America...
Indian: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: I mean, one percent. But many cinemas are there. I have not seen. The people say so.
Prabhupāda: You see, when a man is diseased there are many symptoms of ailments. You cannot say.... You are a physician. You know. You cannot say, "This is the cause of the disease." It is.... Real, one disease is there, and there are so many ailments.
Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: So that is degeneration. For five-rupee notes he is giving his valuable vote to anybody. That is degeneration.
Dr. Patel: That is why we really.... We are not for this type of Western type of democracy. We should have Rāma-rājya, a benevolent dictatorship of a good king, a religious king like Rāma. That should be the ideal condition for this country. This way, sir.
Prabhupāda: Our buses are bigger than this, I think. Eh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Dr. Patel: This is a Matadar Campo(?), no? This is a Matadar Campo(?).
Devotee (2): (break) ...Deities with Acyutānanda Swami. He's going to travel down South India as soon as he's finished...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very nice. Better Gaura-Nitāi. Gaura-Nitāi is better.
Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay: Dr. Patel: Then His kingdom can come on earth, not otherwise.
Prabhupāda: No, no. If one man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver many millions. Not expected... You cannot expect all to become, but if one man is there, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver. (break) Kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid... (BG 7.3). So it is not so easy thing, but if there is one Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he can deliver many millions. (break) ...ti śreṣṭhas ...lokas tad anuvartate. There must be one śreṣṭha, ideal man, and then everyone will follow. And there is no śreṣṭha. That is the difficulty.
Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne: Prabhupāda: Zero, they are śūnyavādī, zero, and nirviśeṣavādī. The same thing. But we are not śūnyavādī. Whole is not zero. The anxiety.... You cannot become anxiety-less. That is artificial. If you artificially become anxiety-less, then artificially you can remain anxiety-less for some time. Again you fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Falls down. But the anxiety should be purified. That is wanted. Not anxiety-less. You are living being. You cannot be anxiety.... That means you are dead. A living being has no anxiety—that means he is dead. That is not the ideal. The anxiety should be purified from material contamination, and it should be only for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect. Here the anxiety with some designation, "I am the father of this family," this is my anxiety, how to maintain them. "I am the leader of this nation." That is my anxiety. So all these anxieties are material, upādhi. I am neither father nor leader. I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. I have created artificial anxieties. So therefore I have to become free from this artificial anxiety. And nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. And when he is pure servant of Kṛṣṇa, he's always anxious how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the.... The anxiety is there, and now it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170), completely fresh.
Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu: Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.
Hari-śauri: "But that's just an ideal, the Ten Commandments. You're not expected to follow."
Prabhupāda: No, that is your explanation. That is your concoction. (break) ...take it. As soon as you disobey Ten Commandments, you are not a Christian. You are heathen. (break) And the thing is that religious faith should not be discussed on philosophy because everyone has got some, his own concocted faith. That is not philosophy. Faith is different. "I believe," "You believe," "I do not believe"—that is not philosophy. (break) ...philosophy in Bhagavad-gītā that asmin dehe.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), there is soul. This is philosophy. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental concoction. So both of them should be combined. Then it is perfect.
Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles: Rāmeśvara: You gave the example of trying to get an M.A. degree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to come to that highest stage. It is not forbidden. That may be ideal, but not for the neophytes. You must.... One who does not know ABCD, what he will know about M.A. degrees? That they do not know. They think that they have already passed M.A. degree. That is their fault.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another statement, I saw them, where it says, it's a quote, that you can treat Kṛṣṇa as your lover and Kṛṣṇa will reciprocate.
Hari-śauri: And they underlined the two words "you can" treat Kṛṣṇa as your lover. In this way they're taking your quotes out of context.
Rāmeśvara: This is one of their main, the main ideas in their philosophy is that the living entity can desire to have any relationship he wants with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, he can desire. I already explained: first deserve, then desire.
Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: Ah, na tat-prayāsaḥ kartavyam. This prayāsa, endeavor for economic development, na kartavyam, don't do it. Here is a revolution against this modern civilization. They are simply after economic development, and here it is condemned. It is condemned that this kind of endeavor is simply wasting the balance of our life. If one is intelligent, he sees that "I have got, say, ten thousand dollars in the bank balance, now I must utilize it properly so that it may not be spent," that is intelligence. Similarly, we have begun our death from the date of birth. Daily, every moment we are, our balance is being decreased. So therefore we should be intelligent. So long the balance is there, let me utilize it properly by which I can be really benefited. So the ideal of my benefit is that I'm suffering in this material condition of life, to stop this conditional life, to get freedom life. That is the aim of life. And that freedom can be achieved only by going back to home, back to Godhead. Not any other way. You cannot get the freedom of life here in this material.... That is not possible. Although you are trying for it. Everyone is trying to.... (aside:) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja can come in. Yes. So without endeavor for this purpose, if we are simply trying to develop our economic condition, that is.... What is that? Āyur-vyayaḥ? What is that word?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yata āyur-vyayaḥ param.
Prabhupāda: They are simply killing the duration of life.
Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles: Prabhupāda: That is the best life. That you develop. It will be an ideal thing. You haven't got to go office fifty miles off. Just get little vegetables and milk, bas, your problem is solved. It is practical. Why you should go fifty miles off?
Rādhā-vallabha: In New York, to go to work, they go into the subway car, and there are so many people...
Prabhupāda: That... Not only, the ferry, steamer, bus, train, subway, cars, there are so many things. I've seen it. They start for going to the office early in the morning, and they come back at eleven o'clock at night. And few hours, that is their family life. And that hours are wasted by sleeping and by sex. This is their life. And to forget all these miserable conditions, drink. This is civilization.
Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit: Prabhupāda: That means they cannot improve the condition of the people. Just like at the airport, everyone is checked. There is no gentlemen. Why everyone is checked? That means the whole mass of people, they're all rogues and thieves. Therefore it is necessary to keep an ideal, an ideal class of men brāhmaṇas. Then people will follow. But there is no such.... Everyone is coolie. That's all. Everyone is. They are making everyone coolie. Coolie civilization. One officer came to see me in Perth, Australia. So I told him, this is a civilization of fourth-class men. You remember?
Devotee (2): We heard the tape.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)
Devotee (2): You said there must be an ideal class of men.
Prabhupāda: There is no ideal class of men. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class.
Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit: Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.
Hari-śauri: I saw a squirrel down there earlier on as well. Squirrels, there was one just down there earlier on.
Prabhupāda: Ideal. Let there be an ideal section, our people, our men. And do your personal advancement. But that much.... If people come, it's all right. Otherwise, we must make our own life successful.
Mādhavānanda: Once you wrote Gargamuni Swami in Nepal that even if they will not listen, simply by your being there, even if they see you chant japa sitting on a street corner, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.
Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit: Stansky: As a matter of fact, even among the educated classes in the United States, there is no culture. There are no cultural roots.
Prabhupāda: No, no culture. There is no culture. There is no standard social life. Simply hodgepodge. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to bring everything in proper order. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So America is the leading nation of the world. If you work on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā and train up your people, it will be ideal state and example for the whole world. At least a certain section of the American population should be ideal. That will also do. Not that..., we cannot expect cent percent will take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not needed. But if there is one section of the people ideal, that will be followed. We want to create that section, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit: Hari-śauri: (laughs) He was becoming very enthusiastic. He was very enlivened. Anyone with a little intelligence, as soon as you begin to speak to them, they, immediately, they become so much enlivened. He's obviously, he's had some idea about organization and whatever, but he's never seen it practiced. And now he's come here and seen it practical.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practical training. That is wanted. Simply theoretical knowledge.... That is helpful, but training, that is the greatest need, that we have to create a set of first-class men. Then the world will be all right. That is an attempt of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make first class, ideal. Why they'll be attracted? They are seeing that "The priests are doing the same thing as we are doing." So how they will be attracted? Therefore Christianity is failing. They are also having the meat, illicit sex, drunkard, and they're priest.
Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit: Prabhupāda: Honesty. So there are so many things. If we want to make the whole human society very peaceful and happy, then we have to divide the society into four classes. Not that everyone will be peaceful. That is not possible. But if we have an ideal class of men who is following austerity, peacefulness, purity, knowledge, people will learn: "Oh, here is the ideal class."
Kern: Mr. Gandhi had a great effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That training is lacking now.
Scheverman: I think all over the world it is lacking, it is needed, right.
Prabhupāda: All over the world, yes. Therefore.... In your country.... You are opulent in every respect. You should.... We are cooperating, we can cooperate. Let us start that "Here is a school or college..." Just like there is engineering college, technological.... Here is a college to learn how to become first-class men. Why not?
Scheverman: It is part of your plan to operate schools for this purpose?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.
Morning Walk -- June 16, 1976, Detroit: Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that "Thou shalt not kill," that's okay, but this is an impossible instruction.
Prabhupāda: This is rascaldom.
Hariśauri: That's a common philosophy. The Ten Commandments are there, but they're an ideal that no one can ever achieve.
Prabhupāda: Then you go to hell, rascaldom. (last two minutes of tape indistinct) (end)
Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban: Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.
Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.
Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.
Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban: Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?
Kulaśekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Kṛṣṇa paints them with thought.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"—what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividaiva śrūyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comforts, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore given a simple formula-chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa.
Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban: Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.: Vipina: Prabhupāda, what about in the case where you have this ideal civilization with the brāhmaṇas instructing, but the brāhmaṇas don't agree? Just like in Bhagavad-gītā, the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, there were many brāhmaṇas, but they didn't agree.
Prabhupāda: There were many brāhmaṇas? Who said?
Vipina: Well there's..., well, there was, they were great kings, right? But they didn't agree on how..., who should have the kingdom? Arjuna and his relatives were in disagreement, great kṣatriya leaders.
Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas, they are not brāhmaṇas. So when there is disagreement, there is fight. The battle will decide. That is always, at the present moment also. When there is disagreement between nation and nation, there is war declaration. That is natural.
Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York: Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Mahārāja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.
Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York: Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.
Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York: Interviewer: As a spirit apart from the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the ideal life.
Bali-mardana: That is the goal.
Prabhupāda: That is the goal. When the soul lives without this material body, that is his liberated life. Just like the criminal, he can live within the jail and without the jail. But he's thinking wrongly that without jail he cannot live. But his life without jail is real life.
Interviewer: That reflects the old, the Hindu view that...
Prabhupāda: Why you again bring Hindu view?
Interviewer: Or, the, at least the Eastern religious view, that to leave this life...
Prabhupāda: Why we are bringing Hindu and Muslim view?
Interviewer: Well, O.K., I take that back then. I take that back. Anyway, what you're saying is that this life is a jail and that really the goal is another life.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London: Prabhupāda: Whatever you decide.
Bhagavān: Prabhupāda, the only thing I'm just a little concerned is just if you have difficulty in the car. But if that won't be too difficult, I really think that this is ideal. Your quarters are really first class, extremely wonderful. And the only other thing is at night it's cool, but that's not so bad either.
Prabhupāda: No, at night cool will be good.
Bhagavān: And in the morning it is warm at ten o'clock.
Prabhupāda: So kitchen is (indistinct).
Bhagavān: Yes.
Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London: Prabhupāda: "At that time I may be not able to utter 'Kṛṣṇa' or think of You, and now I am healthy, let me finish this business." That means "Let me die immediately. Now I'm healthy, I'm quite fit." This is the
ideal. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (
SB 2.1.6). At the time of death, if one remembers Kṛṣṇa, then his life is successful. Immediately he goes to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Ajamila. He chanted "Narayana," and immediately his path to Vaikuntha become clear. So this practice means, whatever we practice all through life, there is chance of coming that remembrance at the time of death, and then it is successful, life is success. If at the time of death one can remember Kṛṣṇa, then his whole life is successful. Our one student, Kārttikeya, his mother was very fortunate. So his mother had nothing to do with this Society, but the boy was attached, and she heard several times "Kṛṣṇa," that this boy is attached to Kṛṣṇa. At the time of her death, she asked her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and died. Just see how fortunate she is. She simply uttered this word, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" then she died. Very fortunate. So on account of her son she got salvation. Otherwise, Kārttikeya told me that he went to see his mother, and the mother was going to ball dance, and the mother did not receive him well. "All right, you sit down. I'll come again." She was such lady. But by Kṛṣṇa's grace, at the time of death, she inquired her son, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" Very fortunate.
Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London: Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?
Harikeśa: Some people think.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm): Prabhupāda: Don't say "no." But give a taste for the good, then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no" then he'll, they will rebel. The four "no's," that is very difficult. Still they are breaking. No illicit sex, they are breaking. But if they develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be automatically "no." So don't bring many "no's," but give them positive life. Then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no," that will be a struggle. This is the psychology. Positive engagement is devotional service. So if they are attracted by devotional service, other things will be automatically "no." Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Just like Ekādaśī day. Ekādaśī day, we observe fasting. And there are many patients in the hospital, they are also fasting. But they'll "No, no." They'll, within heart, "If I get, I shall eat, I shall eat." But those who are devotee, they voluntarily "no." The same fasting is going on for the devotees and the hospital patient. And that "no" and this "no," there is difference. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). It is not meant for the mass of people, but at least if we keep a section of people ideal to the human society, they will be guided. At the present moment, there is no ideal section. Everyone is rascal, demons, rogues, everything. There is no ideal character. All politicians, scientists, leaders, they are all drunkards and woman-hunters. So what they can lead? There is no ideal man in the society. The politicians are giving big, big speech in the United Nations. They'll go to the same hotel where another debauchee is dancing and drinking. That's all. That is his character. Is it not? So what he will do? We can give a very big speech, that's all. What is his character? There is no ideal character in the present human society.
Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran: Prabhupāda: That was my policy from the very beginning, that if the Americans accept, then my mission will be successful. And that is being done gradually, and I am insisting that, preach in America vigorously. If America accepts, then whole world will accept. That's a fact. Anywhere, although America may be fallen, the ideal is American, everywhere. Because they have got money. Kali-yuga means money. If you have got money, then you have got culture, you have got education, you have got everything. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, they were attached, family, aristocracy, culture, education. Nowadays there is no such thing. Get money and you get everything. It is not? Somehow or other, if you have got control over money then you have got everything. Bring that black Bhāgavatam.
Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran: Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?
Nandarāṇī: But their faith is there.
Prabhupāda: That is good, but that is called bhakta prakṛta smṛtaḥ. That is not exactly on the transcendental platform. In the material platform, just appreciating some great power beyond our reach, that's all. Not clear idea. Therefore they are disturbed when they think form. Form means limitation, they think. At least, they should think like that. They do not know. Nobody knows, except in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why we have described about God so many books? But they have this idea. Very poor idea. But they are accepting God is great, that will help in future.
Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Maṇihāra: "...of varying degrees of education and from many walks of life, students, teachers, scientists, servicemen, laborers, and professionals—indeed numerous race, creeds and nationalities—are attached towards it. The unifying characteristics that brings such diverse individuals to Kṛṣṇa consciousness are high ethical standards and a sincere desire to understand spiritual truths. To make a pleasure-loving and easy-going Western youth to shed his fashionable dress and make him give up his dearly cherished beefsteaks, wine and women, cannabis and LSD, and don the saffron robe, shave his head, hold the daṇḍa, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is no mean achievement. That ISKCON has made thousands of Western youths perform this seemingly impossible task is an eloquent testimony of the impact it has made on the life of the contemporary West. ISKCON does offer to the modern man a haven of refuge from the complexity of anxiety of present-day life. The society has indeed set before itself a noble and laudable ideal..."
Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?
Gargamuni: Yours.
Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Maṇihāra: There's just a few more sentences. "The Society has indeed set for itself a noble and laudable ideal, producing men and women of high character, sincerity, and God consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Send this rascal.
Gargamuni: Yes, this shall be sent. And also to Om Mehta.
Prabhupāda: You send. He knows you, Gargamuni. Yes. Say you have mentioned several times my name, so for your benefit, and to open your eyes, I am sending you one article. Please read what ISKCON is doing. Simply write this.
Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Prabhupāda: This is their utopian theory.
Prabhā Viṣṇu: They are thinking that man will conquer over nature. That's their ideal, that man will become God.
Maṇihāra: Just before I left England... They have so many cows in the south of England, they were grazing. But because it was so hot, the grass was not growing. It was becoming very dry, and no new grass was growing because there was no rain. So then they had to move all the cows to the north of England. Thousands upon thousands of cows, they have to move in big lorries to the north of England where there was some grass. And now in the north of England there is no grass, so they're going to have to move them to Scotland. It's costing so much money. And then the cows are going to become thin.
Prabhupāda: They are killing immaturely. Because they die, they cannot eat. They want to eat fresh, huh? The want to kill them alive. (pause) You want? So let us go down to the car. (end)
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad: Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained. A class of brāhmaṇa must be there as ideal to consult with them.
Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi: Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.
Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Let them come. And arrangement should be made when it is... If Vṛndāvana is too hot, at that time we can send them to Mahabalesvara, or if we get that Madras place, that is very cooling, Nilgiri hills. That will be good recreation for them. They should be kept quite comfortably and built up, their character, education. That is wanted. There is need of some good first-class men, ideal men. The world is full of rogues and thieves and bad character.
Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless one... But if there is a class of men, ideal, who understands God, then people will follow. We require one moon. Then the darkness will be dissipated. But if in the millions of stars, what is the use? So they are creating millions of rascals, not one sane man, the modern civilization, the so-called philosophers, so-called scientists. Don't mind. This is the fact.
Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: That's it. There is no prescribed duties. Everyone is a butcher. Formerly there was distinction, "Here is a butcher; here is a religious man." At the present moment everyone is a butcher. Who is religious man? There was division, at least one class, first-class man, second-class man, third-class man. Then, if there is ideal first-class man, even the fourth-class, third man, he'll take the idea, "Oh, here is first-class." But there is no first-class man. All fourth-class men. So who will give idea? And they want to remain fourth-class. If you say that "You become first-class," they will laugh. "What is the use of becoming first-class?" First-class means, find out, śamo damas titikṣā, then, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam.
Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: ...devotion, activities. Who can take more care than the father and the mother? So you combine together, make a batch of good character, ideal character in the whole world. There is no ideal character. Everyone is drunkard and meat-eater or woman-hunter. What is the civilization? Hog civilization. (break) ...civilization. Work hard, get some money, and spend it for intoxication, illicit sex. This is civilization. Is it not? They have no idea how to make civilized.
Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona: Prabhupāda: But that means we do not get such information from Bhagavad-gītā, that "Make your country free." Why he took Bhagavad-gītā and did this business, miscreant (?) business. He took Bhagavad-gītā and he was busy declaring war. Because politically, sometimes required. But the thing is that if your ideal is to live very simple life... His, I mean to say, followers, Jawaharlal Nehru, he did not take up this.
Mr. Malhotra: He used to stay in bhangi colonies, Gandhi. Hm?
Prabhupāda: So, and he was killed in the bhangi colony. No, he was killed in the Birla's place. And there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. Although he was thinking, "This is my life, Bhagavad-gītā," without Kṛṣṇa. What is this?
Mr. Malhotra: Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa? He never commented on third chapter.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Any chapter. It begins bhagavān uvāca. Now how he can describe Bhagavān? This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31).
Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay: Mr. Tombe: Then how to throw out good leadership?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha, the leader is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.
Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided. Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You don't require any covering?
Guest (2): No, I do, but...
Guest (1): (Hindi) My daughter.
Prabhupāda: I have not seen him?
Guest (1): He used to come.
Prabhupāda: So anyone's question about this, this misdirected civilization? In India there was no such misguided civilization. Now they have learned how to misguide people, and they have taken this ideal, that "Unless we become like the Europeans and Americans our progress is checked." This is going on. Actually there is no progress.
Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay: Prabhupāda: There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the zamindar system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.
- nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
- kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām ye
- tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
- śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam
- (SB 5.5.1)
The human life is meant for purifying. They have lost this goal of life. Temporarily we are thinking if we make some comfortable arrangement for body, and that is sufficient. That is sufficient. Lost Vedic culture, ideal life, goal of life. (Hindi) At least in India it should... In other places they are... Therefore this movement's against them. Because we are preaching this philosophy just opposite to their views, they are taking it "brainwashed." Is that all right in your country?
Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...
Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that "I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased." That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuffs, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life. They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn't matter, but must be responsible that "The children should be saved. This is the last birth, no more birth. I'll train the child in such a way that next life he's going to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead." That is parent's duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: "I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs." This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was gṛhastha, he produced Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. That is one... So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is gṛhastha. Produce Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If I can produce kṛṣṇa-bhakta as children, then I'm prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children." And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī in their previous life. What was the name? Their determination is "If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, tapasya. And when Kṛṣṇa came, "What do you want?" "I want You." "Who is like Me? I shall appear. I shall appear." Anyway, we have got such huge establishment. Utilize it very properly everywhere. Another thing, that in Vṛndāvana... You remember the corner land, parikrama, last time? That is available by acquirement.
Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay: Dr. Patel: If they are there, they are not well-off.
Prabhupāda: No, there are. Just like we are creating these brāhmaṇas all over the world; not many, but some of them. There is at least one ideal class. But the modern society, they do not want brāhmaṇas, neither anybody interested to become a brāhmaṇa. That is animal society. You cannot ask a dog, "Please come here. I shall train you as a brāhmaṇa." (laughter) That is not possible.
Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: He's a good boy.
Hari-śauri: He's stuck it out for a long time in Orissa. He's been there a long time, by himself a lot of the time too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He's organizing nicely.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very sincere. He follows all the regulations very rigidly. He gets up in the morning, ideal example.
Jagadīśa: He understands the philosophy quite well.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he is educated. He is B.Sc. He knows Hindi also.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He worked on Hindi translation for some time.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Hindi typewriter?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never saw that typewriter.
Prabhupāda: Ask Yaśodānandana, Yaśomatī-nandana, immediately. You ask him for my brāhmaṇa... Yes. So very steadily do everything. Opposition will come. We have to face.
Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become gṛhastha? I was gṛhastha, pākā caliber gṛhastha. My Guru Mahārāja was brahmacārī, This is ever... Just see his character. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is
ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all. Other things, of course, are circumstantially favorable, either a gṛhastha, brahmacārī or vānaprastha or sannyāsa. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya (
CC Madhya 8.128). You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That makes you guru, not this dress. So what you are thinking of American program? Do it seriously. Balavanta is very expert. And all of you are expert. And do it seriously and systematically, not change the position, this side and this, change. That's not good. That makes fickle. Strength of mind wanted.
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) India is still for monarchy. Not for democracy. They would like. If they get ideal king they'll accept it. So if you can, and if she's serious, let her become ideal... People will worship him like God. But she must be sincere. It is a fact. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. She must be a pure devotee, then everything will... Let her son become pure devotee, become a devotee... She has respect for our movement. That's a fact. And Home Member also. Otherwise so much propaganda against us, they would have taken some steps. They can take any steps they like. They are in power.
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay: Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India: Prabhupāda: They may come or not. We don't care for it. Let us establish an ideal society. That is the...
Jagadīśa: If someone who is well-off wants to become a devotee, shall we encourage him to give up all of his material well-being or shall we ask him to instead put a temple in his house and encourage him how to make his house into a temple and make his whole family Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: And what is your material well-being? Everyone is going hundred miles for well-being. Is that well-being? Either they may go by motorcar or by train... And as soon as there is—what is called?—bottle-neck, they become very much disturbed: "How to go to the office?" Where is well-being?
Rāmeśvara: Say, the Christian religion... The Christian religion has millions of followers.
Prabhupāda: But what is the meaning of these followers? They do not understand anything. Simply by rubber-stamp they are follower.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India: Prabhupāda: But what is the meaning of these followers? They do not understand anything. Simply by rubber-stamp they are follower.
Rāmeśvara: But if we can get a mass following, it is only possible by preaching to them little bit at a time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. By your ideal life, ideal teaching, you'll get. This Christian or any religion, what is the use of that? It's not at all religion. It's simply rubber-stamp.
Rāmeśvara: No. But if we had many people, then gradually we could help them become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: But I think they all... One thing that scares people is that we ask too much...
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is...
Rāmeśvara: ...at the beginning. We are asking too much.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Morning Walk -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says one who is completely free from sinful life, he can become perfectly a devotee. So these are the four pillars of sinful life. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Oh, it is nice park.
Rāmeśvara: But because this is the age of Kali, even if the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement spreads and even captures governments, how can we stop individual people from doing this? (car stops)
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot expect cent percent will be sinless. But there must be an ideal section—"Oh, here is..." That is wanted. That is wanted, not that you can expect cent percent ideal.
Gargamuni: Gate's locked?
Hari-śauri: So that ideal should be the persons who are living in our āśramas.
Rāmeśvara: No, they're in there.(?)
Gargamuni: That's our man. He jumped over the fence to get the gate open open.
Rāmeśvara: But now, suppose there is some businessman, and he knows that everybody is wanting this sex. So he is making movie or writing a book describing these things.
Prabhupāda: These things were formerly restricted-censor board.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Rāmeśvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever it may be... We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life.
Hari-śauri: But still, we're going out to attract people to come to our life-style.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: We're still going out to attract people to come and live like us.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara: Prabhupāda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Āpani ācārī prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you make minus Kṛṣṇa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura: Satsvarūpa: It requires powerful influence in the society to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the leaders of the society, they agree. They are barking like dogs in the United Nation. They should take rightly the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be all right. They're simply barking like dogs. What benefit is there? What benefit people have derived from the United Nation? Nothing. So if they want actually world peace, world unity, they must take the formula given by Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so our duty is to convince that "You are uselessly wasting your time for unity, for benefit of the human... You take this. You'll be happy." We are safe. We have taken to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter. There is no doubt. But... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said that "I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals." Tato vimūḍha-cetasa indriyārtha: "They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification." Indriyārtha. "And for that purpose, a few years, they're making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?" And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature's law is working, how he's going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varṇāśrama, that "Here is the position."
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: At least... At least... At least they will see, "This is the ideal."
Hari-śauri: Yes. Then if there is a war after that, it will be all right.
Prabhupāda: At least ideal must be there. That we are doing.
Hari-śauri: This will more or less revolutionize the way we're running our centers. If we introduce it, it will more or less revolutionize the way we're running our centers.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why revolution?
Hari-śauri: Because right now our only emphasis is just to simply produce brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: So why you are taking "we"? Why not others? This is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. You are thinking of "we." That is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. It is not that "we." Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. You have to think for others also.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Ideal. We are giving the ideal.
Satsvarūpa: But no one's listening and no one's taking it up except a few...
Prabhupāda: But you take. You show them.
Hari-śauri: That's why we say, "we."
Prabhupāda: That "We said" means not we are going to take them, but we are simply giving the ideas. We are not going to be a śūdra. But to show the... Just like you play in a drama. You are playing the part of a king. You are not a king.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, just to give them idea, we have to play like that.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Not necessarily that we are going to be śūdra. So that is it. That is the thing. We are servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And as servant of Kṛṣṇa, we have to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: So we can ideally organize ourselves and then for the rest of the people all we can do is hope that they'll follow it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhavānanda: Set the example.
Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce. Now the days of wind will come from March.
Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he'll never say that.
Prabhupāda: No. I don't think he's so mean-minded. No. He's not mean-minded. He's a good boy. I've studied.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ravi Shankar has taken advantage of him. These two pūjārīs, the two brothers...
Prabhupāda: They're ideal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...they look like they're out of the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. They appear as two persons right out of that book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good boys.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vaikuṇṭha men.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They do not know except the duty. Very good boys.
Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva-parā vedā vāsudeva-parā... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). This is wanted. At least, one must know. Why they should be kept in darkness? What is this civilization? They have got light. The knowledge is there. They can be educated. And unnecessarily they are kept into darkness. Is that civilization? Others may do it. They have no knowledge. Why India? India should now stand up—"Stop this nonsense." They have got this culture. That is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma. India cannot tolerate this. Do you follow? When... Even it is not possible to introduce this movement in a large scale, there is no harm. Anyone who takes it, he is happy. It is very difficult. We are not expected that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), everyone will be able to do it. But the ideal should be there. And it is India's duty to keep this ideal, Indian people's duty, government's duty. That will keep India's prestige in the highest level. Make propaganda like that. Why India should be lowered down unnecessarily while we have got so much stock of knowledge, scientific knowledge? Am I right?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why? It doesn't matter, only a few persons may take, but the ideal must be there. And preach all over the world. For me it will be difficult to move everywhere, but so long my life is there, I'll give you hint. You develop it.
Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Then that will be very nice. I want to have a small Vaiṣṇava state-varṇāśrama ideal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is possible in Manipur.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I thought it. Ideal Vaiṣṇava state. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they are doing very nicely, and people will be surprised, "Oh." There is no question of hatred. It is division for proper discharge of duty.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I saw in the airport, the policemen, they have this tilaka.
Prabhupāda: Tilaka.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Policemen, they are dressed, but they have tilaka.
Prabhupāda: Manipur? Manipur?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Manipur. And always give respect. Though I am nobody, but...
Prabhupāda: Tilaka.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: So immediately do it. I shall go. If there is such possibility... Let us have a small ideal state. If respectable gentlemen take it, oh, it will be a great success, an ideal state throughout the whole world, Vaiṣṇava state.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Example. You can show that example.
Prabhupāda: Show their policemen, all with tilaka, and marching, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do they chant there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They have...
Prabhupāda: We shall train them. Military march, Manipur. Slogan: "Jaya Rādhe! Jaya Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Babhruvāhana! Jaya Arjuna!" And then let us go. We shall organize Bombay headquarter, Manipur Vaiṣṇava state, send missionary all over the world, bona fide, scientific system of religion, ideal character. Ideal character. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). That we have to show. "Here is the sum total of all good qualities." That we have to show. We haven't got to go anywhere. Knowledge, good quality, happiness, advancement of life, everything complete. So let us go to Manipur. Arrange for that.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. Then he can do that. He can do that. And what is the wrong? Suppose the legislators become first-class brāhmaṇa, so what is the wrong there? Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In Manipur, it's no so much influenced yet from outside civilization.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I suggest. They are Vaiṣṇavas. They can take it and show an ideal state in the world. Then others may follow.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Every day in the radio, all Manipur radio, they have Caitanya-caritāmṛta reading at one o'clock. They read Bengali. One reads and another translates. It is a regular feature. And Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa. These are radio programs.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So why not? I may go or not go, but let the leaders take up this process to make Manipur an ideal state of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura: Prabhupāda: So that is not difficult. We can come to Calcutta and go to Calcutta, there. But if you organize Bombay center, recruit scientists, hold meeting, that is very nice proposal. There must be some state, ideal state. Just like the Russia is Communist state, and they're making nice propaganda, similarly we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is example.
Rūpānuga: A good example is needed. A good example.
Prabhupāda: Either Manipur, anywhere. but we must have now a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. And we shall show how ideal state, wherever it is possible. I am not speaking particularly of Manipur, but Manipur, there is good chance. But we must have a Kṛṣṇa conscious state. So go. Take prasādam.
Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura: Gargamuni: There's also special mention that the Hyderabad farm should be run according to your direction and cooperation between Mahāṁśa Swami and Haṁsadūta Mahārāja
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to develop this, an ideal farming. If you...
Haṁsadūta: I'm just a little hesitant, because I thought Mahāṁśa will be a little upset maybe.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Haṁsadūta: I don't...
Rāmeśvara: He wants to be a little independent. He wants to be in charge by himself.
Hṛdayānanda: But it was mentioned that he is not very competent.
Brahmānanda: Haṁsadūta Mahārāja planned(?) that there's much debt in the Hyderabad temple. They owe one lakh of rupees.
Rāmeśvara: They owe Prabhupāda five lakhs.
Brahmānanda: Well, just on rations they owe one lakh.
Pañcadraviḍa: One lakh on rice.
Haṁsadūta: The whole situation is very deteriorated.
Prabhupāda: So why he does not come?
Haṁsadūta: Both with money and men.
Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Perfect. They do not know. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So at least in India these things should be stopped. That is my ambition. India cannot go in that way. We have got so much stock of knowledge. Bhārata-bhūmite haila. That I want. Others rascals may be misled, but in India at least there must be an ideal class. That I want. Why India's name should be defamed? That... They are following in the same blind man's way. Therefore I repeatedly said that "I invite you all. Come. Join. Understand." What is this nonsense? "Health. What will be health?" But where is your health, nonsense? You are going to die next moment. And "WHO"? What is that "WHO"?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Rajneesh.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, that...
Guest (2): Question last night.
Prabhupāda: United Nation, WHO.
Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the pandals, millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeon holes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are... Keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Why not government make people God conscious? It is very simple thing. God personally is explaining how to become God conscious. Very simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Even a child can do it. So why not leaders? Then their example should be followed.
- yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
- tat tad evetaro janaḥ
- sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
- lokas tad anuvartate
- (BG 3.21)
Why don't they do this, this God consciousness? Do it seriously. Then everything will be all right. They are defying the existence of God and reading Bhagavad-gītā. This is their position. And if I go to the details, it may not be very palatable. But big, big leaders say like that. We have got everything in India, and to become God conscious, to establish the Lord's kingdom, not at all difficult. But we manufacture our own ideas. But we want that rāma-rājya, but without Rāma, how rāma-rājya will be? So those who are leaders of the society, if they take it seriously, will there not be an ideal state? And you can make an..., set an example to the whole world. The whole world will be happy. But we must be very serious about it. That is our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying, but we have no support from the government, from the leaders. We are alone. Now, after twelve years, they have recognized in the United States and London, Germany. Otherwise I was, twelve years before, I was not (Rajda coughing). Loitering in the streets of New York, who was caring for me? Now these boys, they have joined, they are doing something, they are fighting.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.
Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: You are recruiting other scientists also?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing you were recruiting, how many would you make ideally at...
Prabhupāda: And here is one philosopher also. He knows perfectly well English, Sanskrit, Vedas. Where is he? I don't find him.
Dhanañjaya: Prem Yogi.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is in his room.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: About five will be ideal. The biggest group will be too expensive, and sometimes...
Prabhupāda: No, make five.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.
Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Rajda: ...in ancient days.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay: Mr. Rajda: Last time we had talked about this, and in Delhi, actually, I was on the verge of arranging the meeting, but never here. But then our Girirāja telephoned me, and in deference to your health we didn't arrange that meeting in Delhi. When Morarji-bhai is coming here, we shall see that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education. (Hindi) Provided we train at least some ideal men, everything can be done. Everything is there. There is no scarcity of knowledge in India.
Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay: Prabhupāda: "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma." The reference is there. This very word is there. "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma."
Girirāja: And it's also described that the great sages in the forest who were worshiping Rāma, they wanted to associate with Him in a particular way which was not possible because He was acting as the ideal king, so He said that "In My future appearance as Lord Kṛṣṇa, I will fulfill all of your desires."
Prabhupāda: And besides that, in the Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā, this name Rāma is mentioned.
- rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
- nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
- kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.39)
Kṛṣṇa is the original God and Rāma is expansion. Not only Rāma-other incarnations. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many.
Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?
Prabhupāda: They will.
Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's considered advancement, to come to the point of being animals here.
Prabhupāda: So our gurukula should be ideal. Not all these boys... You should take care of these things from the very beginning—if you want actually spiritual life. If you want to progress like animals, that is different thing, as the whole world is doing. We want to maintain an ideal institution. People may see. In Christian idea also, the nuns were separate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays the nuns, every... Twice a week they get their hair set. They wear miniskirt now.
Prabhupāda: And so many scandal.
Conversations -- May 17, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: He is ideal sannyāsī. I think he's younger than you.
Indian man (2): Yes. As I am engrossed in this way. It is only through his grace I got extricated. It is impossible. I have got all opportunity. Still, the world has attract me in such a way that several times I promised to him; I could not extricate myself. But this time, I really strict and I last only... That strictness I found because I know it now.
Prabhupāda: He's coming from government service. Ācchā.
GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: He should be replaced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he should be replaced. But that's a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.
Prabhupāda: They must be all ideal ācārya-like. In the beginning we have done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating, he can be replaced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's chanting party ready to do saṅkīrtana. So may they come in?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end).
Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana: Bhavānanda: Would you like to have kīrtana now?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...come directly, brāhmaṇas sometimes brahmacārī, gṛhastha. That will impress. (break) ...hodgepodge. Respect is no. Ideals become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. Tilaka always must be there. That is our great standard. Kaṇṭhī-mālā. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) (indistinct) Don't be in all this (indistinct). Go on very nicely. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsa... (break)
Gargamuni: Well, we only printed two Oriya books. Both were printed in Calcutta so far, because there's one Oriya printer there. Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja is investigating completely the... We went around investigating the presses in Cuttack and Bhuvaneśvara, if we might get some cheaper or easier price. It appears that some things we can do cheaper there, like the inside part, but cover cannot do cheaper there.
Prabhupāda: Cover you can get there, cover.
Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they won't take.
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Therefore it will be a failure. We are... Just like in Hyderabad we are trying to make an ideal farm. If we can do, that will be success.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was recently an article. Previously there was oil shortage in the world. Now they are predicting that there is going to be a water shortage.
Prabhupāda: Everything will be shortage. That is nature's arrangement. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). They cannot make any plan successful without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long they'll insist upon this point, that "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall do everything successfully..." That is durāśā. As long as they persist on this, they'll remain rascals. Every plan will be failure. Durāśā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Nature, material nature, is against them. No plan will be allowed to be... Just trace out the history. Every plan has been unsuccessful, either Eastern, Western. Napoleon made plan, Hitler made plan, Gandhi made plan.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: You bring students from all over the world. But according to our own selection. And if you make an ideal institution here, then the local men also will... The management is difficult. It is not so easy, that simply "I open my office here. I keep my bank here. I get my work." That is not management. Management is little difficult. Everyone is thinking, "Where to keep my leg? Where to keep my leg?" Nobody's thinking how to manage. The same thing, (Bengali). "Warning: Don't keep your head on the northern side." He says, "Oh, where is my head?" So I can give you suggestion. Now you... So Akṣayānanda has gone...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The motorcycle has gone to bring the manager.
Prabhupāda: He is coming?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will the manager come now? What is your guarantee that he'll come now? You should call him.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have already called him. (background talking, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa)
Prabhupāda: This is another management: without knowing whether he's coming, motorcycle.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on. So we are... "For the good of the society you can send your son to become vidvān, bhaktimān. Then, after some time, you can engage your son in any way. That is the... If they are found it, vidvān and bhaktimān, then everything will be all right. And if gone rascals, then what good for the society? Just think. Am I right or wrong?" You have to convince like that.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: That I know because people are now debauch and uneducated. So they want their son to be debauch and uneducated, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu did not want a child like Prahlāda. It was there formerly the misunderstanding took place. Prahlāda wanted to satisfy Nārāyaṇa, and he wanted to become a devotee of Nārāyaṇa. The father is asura. He wanted: "What is this nonsense, to become devotee? I wanted politics, diplomacy, cheating. You are studying." Presently there is a class of men, Hiraṇyakaśipu. They do not like to see their sons become Prahlāda. And our ideal is to create Prahlāda. It doesn't matter there are many Prahlādas. At least there must be... So we have got... How many rooms we have got?
Devotee (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: At least one dozen rooms. (background talking) Twenty-six. So if fifteen rooms are taken by the Americans... How many students will be accommodated in one room?
Devotees (2): Four to five.
Prabhupāda: So fifteen to five, 250. At least 150 students you can accommodate them, nice. So arrange for that. And throughout India and the whole world you cannot bring 250? So is it very difficult to bring 250 students? So what kind of managers you are? So these things should be considered.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief. They are not ashamed even. And people are adoring him: "O Sanjay, you are Indira Gandhi's son. I take your blessing." Doing practically. He was very much anxious to see Sanjay Gandhi. So what did I say?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You said not to waste time with these...
Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it.
Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Not tasteful, not bad. It can be drunk. So that's all right. (Bengali) This is evening. And morning you can give. Not very difficult. (Bengali) ...ideal institute. I am thinking so many things, but my life is ending. So keep this ideal, especially young men. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is the time that you start to take your massage.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Now you can go.
Yaśodānandana: Jaya oṁ viṣṇu-pāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya aṣṭottara-śata śrī śrīmad bhaktivedānta svāmī prabhupāda mahārāja ki jaya.
Devotees: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali conversation with Indian devotees) So credit there must be.
Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"
Dr. Sharma: Indians also?
Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.
Akṣayānanda: Before he went to America.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.
Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, with great feeling they were serving.
Prabhupāda: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideal, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become... So farm there.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But during Ratha-yātrā, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. (break) Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. She's interested in every single aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you'll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I did.
Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious ideal gṛhasthas. That we want. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. There are many. I was gṛhastha. There was Deity worship, everything nice. I was publishing Back to Godhead from gṛhastha. So aim was there. But I could not leave family life for some circumstances. That is a different thing. Must be in touch with the devotional service as in the temple. If live nearby temple, it is easier, or in the temple. But aloof, that is dangerous.
Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: So you give some... We are getting many other land. If your becomes ideal, you can teach them. People are coming for chanting?
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. One gṛhastha is there, and the first week he went there, every night three hundred people were coming.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Yaśomatīnandana: And that was in the middle of the desert. Not desert, in the middle of like jungle, you know.
Prabhupāda: That I want.
Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: You can make an ideal place. Very good.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very good temple. And actually the farm is worth five or six lakhs' rupees. All surroundings all good. And another good thing I found was in Hyderabad the neighboring villagers were against us when we went there, but here they're all favorable. They all say "Hare Kṛṣṇa." When you walk, they greet you enthusiastically.
Prabhupāda: Gujarati people are Vaiṣṇava by nature.
Yaśomatīnandana: One boy that is there, they invite him for prasāda, and then they fan him.
Prabhupāda: Do it nicely. All facilities will come.
Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: After all, the thing is that so long we have got this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), you have to accept. This is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the human endeavor should be diverted how to stop this repetition of birth and death. That is the prime instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Kṛṣṇa says that,
- janma karma ca me divyaṁ
- yo jānāti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti...
- (BG 4.9)
So our movement is on that platform, how to stop. Our whole Vedic culture is based on that process. When Viśvāmitra Mahārāja went to see Daśaratha about..., Daśaratha Mahārāja inquired from Viśvāmitra, aihistaṁ(?) yat punar-janma-jayāya: "You are great saintly person. You are trying to conquer over birth and death. Is your process going on nicely?" Viśvāmitra inquired Daśaratha Mahārāja about royal activities, government, prosperity, because he was kṣatriya and he was brāhmaṇa. So my request... This, our Gītā philosophy, that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ... (BG 4.13). There must be a class of men, ideal brāhmaṇas; a class of men, ideal kṣatriyas; class of men, ideal vaiśyas; and balance, śūdras, to help. That will make the human society happy. Cooperate. Just like body. There are different departments: head department, then arms department, then the belly department and the leg department. If they are all in good condition, the health is all right.
Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Hm.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, that would be very good there because it's also a very ideal climate. Everything grows there very easily because there's plenty of rain, fertile soil, and there's only one city—that's Colombo. And it's a very small city. People are all agriculturalists. The government is also giving land free to encourage agriculture. Simply that it has to be cleared. It's jungle land; it has to be cleared. Shall we try for something like that?
Prabhupāda: What you can do it easily...
Haṁsadūta: Do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This Dr. Kovoor affair has given you some position.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As an atheist... He's an atheist.
Room Conversation Arrival of Jayatirtha and Harikesa -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How the vaiśya community lives, how the different varṇas and āśramas function together, and what their responsibilities are to each other. We're trying to set up our Gītā-nagarī community based upon the teachings which you've given in your books. It is very enlivening and stimulating meeting. Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja will be coming tomorrow with his brother. And he has designed the very ideal plan for all of the varṇas and āśramas to live together.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Do it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: So go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're going on on your teachings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You're always in the center of our life.
Prabhupāda: No, let us make some community.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Show the world how to live ideally, go back to Godhead. Raise your own food, make your own clothes, make your own buildings, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They are working so hard, they don't have nice home, they don't have nice clothing, they don't have nice food, and they have no love for Kṛṣṇa. We have to show how to do everything very nicely. And you've given... We just have to understand what you've given us, Prabhupāda, your teachings.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: They have got money. Now if they follow little our instruction, it will be an ideal country.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You used to say "American money and Indian knowledge." But now all the money is in the Arab countries. So we have to get it from them. (break)
Rāmeśvara: We sent the second volume of Tenth Canto to the printers two weeks ago, so within one more week the advanced copies will be ready to send.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book distribution is going very big in Europe, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayatīrtha: This last week the European zones were number one, two, and three in the world. All the American zones were behind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's due to your presence there, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. Last week in London we distributed seventy thousand books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In one week, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayatīrtha: This is the world's record for the most books ever distributed by any temple any week in history. But this week Bhagavān has sworn he'd beat it. That's why he hasn't come yet. He'll be here tomorrow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavān is personally staying there to make sure his zone beat Jayatīrtha's zone. And only after he's achieved victory, then he's going to come and see you.
Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization is sarve sukhino bhavantu: "Everyone be happy." This is Vedic civilization. And this is the way, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.
Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: What meeting is going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had two meetings today. One meeting was the BBT meeting for the completion of the Bombay project. And then another meeting was about our community Gītā-nagarī. Describing how it will be... Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has come with his brother, who's the architect. And we're having a meeting for planning this ideal community very exactly, everything. The people present at the meeting are Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Paramānanda, Vāmanadeva, Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, Tripurāri Mahārāja, Balavanta, Rūpānuga. All these people have experience with..., you know, like Bhavānanda in Māyāpur. Balavanta has two farms, Rūpānuga, all of these people. In other words, we're just trying to plan out... And Surabhī Mahārāja. And Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja's brother is an architect. In fact I've just been told that his architectural firm is the same one that's designing the... What is that? Designing a big thing in Tehran for the Shah of Iran. It's a very big architectural firm. So we're just trying to plan a very ideal community. We don't want to make a hodgepodge of it. I mean it should be so ideal that it becomes one of the most wonderful preaching tools for our movement, to show that "Here is an ideal community based upon Vedic principles, and it's perfect in every respect." So it takes a little cooperative thought and planning. That's why we've invited so many people to sit in the meeting.
Prabhupāda: I was very happy when I heard, respectable gentlemen, out of love, they are washing dishes. You know that? Ātreya Ṛṣi told me.
Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Dhṛṣṭadyumna is, I think, the elder. His brother is here.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My brother is an architect, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he's helping us to design the community plan for the small village and the temple. He's working very hard to help set up an ideal Vedic community.
Prabhupāda: Keep always engaged yourself in Kṛṣṇa activity. That is wanted. Jaya. (break) ...yad yad ācarati... (BG 3.21). You can give me two teaspoon glucose.
Brahmānanda: Two teaspoons?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Glucose.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just... Everything you say is important to us, so I was just explaining to Jayādvaita to make sure that if you speak about these... (microphone moving) What would you like? Turning over? Okay.
Prabhupāda: Turn me over occasionally this way and that way, even I do not say.
Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana: Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) ...chānā, solid chānā... (Bengali) Massage upwards towards the heart. (Bengali) ...preferably on the left side, like this. This is an ideal position for him. I would like to go and see the doctor who will examine his urine tomorrow. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) Don't worry about me. He asked me whether I have brought my wife with me or not. (laughs) I have come running, leaving everything.
Prabhupāda: Gāḍi? Car?
Bhavānanda: Car. Yes, car is here for him.
Prabhupāda: So, car is reserved for his use?
Bhavānanda: Is going for the urinalysis.
Prabhupāda: No. In our car he is going or not? How he is going?
Bhavānanda: He's not going yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So car must be ready.
Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And at that time it might be the ideal opportunity.
Prabhupāda: Why not do that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think you're finding any difficulty here, are you?
Prabhupāda: No. Māyāpur is still more open.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fresh air.
Prabhupāda: Fresh air.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Māyāpur is wonderful at the winter season.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana: Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, the point is that we have not built these temples for profit-making basis. We have built these temples to demonstrate to the world an ideal, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we are going to allow these people to come here, that means we're compromising. Then we should have gone into business...
Prabhupāda: Just like to take advertisement in the magazine. Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's the same thing. We're trying to make something ideal. We don't care if anybody does join or doesn't join, but our business is to show the perfect ideal.
Prabhupāda: Jayādvaita?
Jayādvaita: I agree. This...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like our Back to Godhead magazine. For a while it was becoming very compromised. Actually it was becoming a little compromised. And just because we wanted... The editors were thinking that they should make it more popular, more acceptable. But our conclusion of all the GBC men was: "Popular or not, we are trying to present the ideal for the topmost men. There must be some ideal institution in the world." So we should keep it pure. And those who want the pure product, they will come and take. And others, at least they will know this is pure.
Jayādvaita: Everybody else is already a hodgepodge, so they'll allow anyone to speak because they don't have any scruples. But if we are very strict, if we don't allow anyone who's not strictly following...
Prabhupāda: Where is Brahmānanda?
Jayādvaita: Brahmānanda? Brahmānanda is resting.
Prabhupāda: So, I am on the deathbed. I may go away at any moment. Then... Now it is up to you to give protection to the sanctity of our institution. Who else is there from the GBC?
