Expressions researched:
"had no idea"
|"has no idea"
|"have no idea"
|"no idea"
Interviewer: And what of special foods and special drink?
Prabhupāda: Special food means Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Because we have dedicated our life to Kṛṣṇa, we eat such things which Kṛṣṇa eats. The impersonalists, they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa, they have no idea of God, and how they can conceive that the God eats also? So we are not such rascal. We know that what God eats, and we offer such thing to God, or Kṛṣṇa, and we take after His eating. That is our special food.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes. I came here... You will be surprised. I came here with seven dollars only and the whole establishment expenditure is not less than, I think, five thousand dollars monthly. At least.
Journalist: That's sixty thousand a year. I mean, is it donated?
Prabhupāda: Five thousand is very minimal. I think it is more than that.
Hayagrīva: I have no idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we are paying... This temple, we are paying four hundred, simply rent. Similarly each and every place we are paying three hundred, four hundred rent.
Journalist: Well, do people come to the services who are not disciples and devotees?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, we allow everyone, "Come on, chant. Take prasādam." We offer this prasādam. Chant, dance, hear Bhagavad-gītā, and take prasādam, and go home.
Prabhupāda: What is that self?
Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma." And when he is asked, "What is that dharma?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma?
Guest (4): Sadācāra...
Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is the means. Sadācāra is not the end.
Prabhupāda: That you have to learn from the authorized Vedic literature. You cannot imagine. You cannot speculate. You have to learn from authority.
Guest (1): Authority...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if you want to go to Germany. Now you have no idea how the German people live or their, how they are, what is their culture. So you have to learn. Here is a boy, German. You have to learn from him what kind of life there is. Similarly, there is a life like that. Now, what kind of life that is, we have to ask from a person who has realized that life.
Journalist (1): Well, if you accept. Again, it's a slight digression.
Prabhupāda: No. You have no idea of God. You cannot give name, address, occupation of God. I can give.
Journalist (1): Do you need to have a name and address and occupation for God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like when you come, I ask you what you are: "What is your name? What is your address? What is occupation?" This is the first introduction. If I do not know your name, address, occupation, then what is the use of talking with you?
Prabhupāda: Gañjā, yes. Not sādhus, rogues. Sādhu's description is there—bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro. Even one is found that his habits are not to the standard, but if he has unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and engaged in His service, then he is sādhu. These sādhus with long hairs and gañjā smoking, they have no idea what is the ultimate goal. And those who come from Western countries, naturally they find out these are the sādhus and they imitate. Hippies, they do like that, imitation. They do not know what is the philosophy, what is religion, what is sādhu.
Prabhupāda: Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali. That should be tested by life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu speaking āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya, He behaves Himself perfectly and then teaches how to become a devotee. He is mad after Kṛṣṇa, He is falling down in the sea. You see? So that is wanted. And the Bhāgavata also says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir (SB 1.2.6), how one has increased his devotion and love for Kṛṣṇa, that is the test of it. Not these formalities. Another place Kṛṣṇa says, api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Even sudurācāraḥ, even not well behaved but unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Don't consider about his misbehaviors. That is not consideration. That will be corrected. Because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually those things, those defects will be corrected. kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, he will become very soon a great religious soul because he has taken to Kṛṣṇa. So in the beginning if there is some defect, we should not consider that. We have to see how much his love for Kṛṣṇa has increased, that is the test. Not the formalities. That is the test, how much he has sacrificed for Kṛṣṇa, how much he is prepared to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. If one takes Kṛṣṇa for making business, that is different thing, that is not devotion. Śālagrāma, my Guru Maharaja used to say śālagrām bir badam hoy (?). Just like you have seen śālagrāma. So if somebody takes that and breaks peanuts, so there is no devotion. It is a show during, attracting the visitors, it is nicely decorated, but in their absence, take it and you will have stone. So all this mostly the temple show is going on like that. They have made it a show of business. The devotees will come and pay something and I may have devotion or not devotion, it doesn't matter. One should be baccha bankaram suci (?), inside and outside perfect.
Prabhupāda: And if you have got any doubts, any questions, you can inquire. That is required.
Yadubara: I have been asking questions of devotees. It's hard for me to comprehend some of the things in the scriptures. I just don't understand.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from scripture, from your personal understanding you can place questions. People, generally, they have no idea of God. We are placing the factual God. That is very difficult to understand. Generally they think it is an idea, fiction. But we don't think like that. We have got clear conception of God. That is the difference between our Society and all any other religious groups. They have no clear idea of God. They simply say that there is God, God is great, but no clearer.
Prabhupāda: There is no religion. Strictly speaking, simply some dogmas, maybe some moral principles. That is another thing. But moral principles we have to transcend. We don't say that don't follow moral principles. But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. So nobody's... Factually, religion means conception of God and the words of God, all over the world. Just like good citizen means he knows what is the government and what is the law of government. He is following. Similarly, religious person means he must know what is God and what are the words of God. So our principle is that we follow the words of God. God says, God says that "Always think of Me." So who can object to this, if he's seriously about religion? Why one should not think of God always? God says that "You think of Me." But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of? We have God, Kṛṣṇa, here. We can think of His form. We are busy in His service. We are not only thinking; we are trying to become His devotee. We are serving, trying to serve Him. Rising early in the morning, offering maṅgala-ārati, then prayers, then reading His message, trying to apply in our life as far as possible. We are not perfect, but we are trying to follow the instruction of God. This is our life. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru.
Prabhupāda: That is also not guaranteed. Why I am taking so much trouble? They are so foolish persons. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jīvake karaye gādhā. This so-called scientific education means people become more attracted with this temporary world and he works very hard, just like an ass. Ass, the example of ass is because the ass does not know what is his interest, but works very hard. Therefore ass example is given. Ass, he carries the washerman's cloth, tons, but not a single cloth belongs to him. He is naked. And still he is working. He does not know, "Why I am working for the washerman, carrying so much load?" That sense he hasn't got. He thinks that "Washerman gives me to eat some grasses." Although grasses are all over. That is ass. That is ass. So these scientific research workers, they are asses. He does not know that "I shall live for thirty years. So what is the use of my research work?" But intelligent man will say, "Let me utilize this thirty years to prepare for my next life." That is intelligence. But they. But they have no idea of the next life. (pause) Again, Switzerland.
Paramahaṁsa: They think that evolution is continuing. They think that the human species will...
Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Progress is going on. That progress, the ultimate progress is yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That where you're going, you do not return, that is the supreme progress. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection. You read Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. Mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ (BG 8.15). They have no idea what is the highest perfection of human life.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Poverty's not question.
Guest (1): It's basically the character, the problem of the character.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) They have no idea about Vedic... They are supposed to be preaching Vedānta philosophy, but they do not know what is Vedānta.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is the only business of human life.
Guest (1): There must be little bit of, at least little bit of spiritual element in life. Not the whole time. (break) ...I believe every (break) ...goes to this sort of school.
Guest (3): There are so many.
Prabhupāda: They have no idea.
Guest (1): I have not been there. I just heard about it.
Prabhupāda: Actual spiritual life...
Prabhupāda: When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all. That is advancement of civilization. But that is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization means to understand Viṣṇu, how to please Him, how to go back to Him, go to the spiritual world. This is advancement of civilization. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). They do not know all these things. Therefore they have been described as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). All these men are exactly like dogs, hogs, camel and asses.
Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it. They want to have two paradises, one here and one there also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): And they want to bite.
Prabhupāda: No, they have no idea any other paradise than this paradise. They have no idea.
Buddhist Monk (1): Which to us is the fools' paradise.
Prabhupāda: The people do not know all these things. They have no idea. They have no idea, neither... Even these things are there in the Vedic literature, they are not very much interested. And practically, in the darkness, they do not know what is next... I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He, he is in charge of Indology. That gentleman told me, "Swamiji, after death there is nothing. Everything is finished." So I was surprised, that such a learned man, and he has no idea of the transmigration of the soul. These are the defects of modern civilization. Those who are leaders, teachers, they are not sufficiently in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: This is their rascal's philosophy. They have no idea that by training one can forget sex life. So if you forget sex life, where is the question of abortion? Where is the question of abortion? But they cannot do that. Therefore, it is said adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By nonrestricted sense enjoyment they are gradually going to the animal, lower grade of life. They cannot explain why there are so many varieties of life. They cannot explain. So this killer of baby within the womb, so the result will be that this man who is, I mean to say, indulging in abortion, he'll be put into the womb, and somebody will kill him. And as many wombs or babies he has killed, he'll have to take so many lives and being killed. So much so that it will be rather impossible for him for hundreds of years not to see the light. He'll remain in the womb and being killed. Does not know the nature's law. One cannot violate the nature's law. You can violate the state law. Suppose you kill somebody, you can escape by trick. But you cannot escape nature's law. As many times you have killed, so many times you have to be killed within the womb. This is nature's law.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that will be this perfect platform, but there's nothing like something perfect. They will explain that...
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. They are trying to go to the perfect platform, but they have no idea what is perfect. That is their foolishness. Why they are making advancement? Advancement means there must be a goal where you will reach? But you have no goal. You do not know what is that goal, so what is the meaning of your advancement? Why you are wasting time blindly?
Karandhara: They want that perfection, but they want it with this body and its paraphernalia. They don't want to give this body up.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this body can also be perfect. But you do not know how to make it.
Prabhupāda: Suppose a business is not going very nicely. It is going at loss. Somebody says, "Close it." But one experienced man comes: "Why should you close? All right, I shall do it properly. You'll get profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No. Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? (break) ...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants, they have no idea who is the proprietor. So everyone is doing something, taking pocket, something this, take pocket, his pocket, so how the business will go on nicely? That is being done. Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged, and there is no profit, simply chaos. That is the position. (break) ...says in the Bhagavad-gītā,
"If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight.
Prabhupāda: So these rascals will change every year their theology. So what is the value of their words? Childish. (break) ...changes, he is a rascal. That is our... We say, "Kṛṣṇa the Supreme." We never change it. And "Surrender is the only process." We shall never change it. In any circumstance we will not change it. That is the difference. And these rascals will change every year their opinion. They are rascals. (break) ...They are rascals. (break) Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, the Supreme. All the ācāryas accepted the Supreme. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, Supreme. My Guru Mahārāja accepted, Supreme. I am accepting, Supreme. I am teaching the same thing. So there is no change. Not that after a few years it will be changed. That never be. That is our position. (break) Changing means material. Anything material is susceptible to change. Like this material body. I am changing my body, but I am the spirit soul. I am not changing. That is the difference. So all these so-called theologicians, they have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. All rascals. They cannot understand what is God. That I have explained. Simply speculating. It will not help. (break) (Hindi) (some Indian people have joined the walk) Now we are talking of one theologician. Some years ago just... Narrate the... Yes.
Bali Mardana: Many philosophers have tried to define what is the best.
Prabhupāda: They cannot.
Bali Mardana: It's not possible.
Prabhupāda: They cannot. It is not possible.
Bali Mardana: They have no Absolute.
Prabhupāda: No. They have no idea. Mental speculators, they are no good. (wind noise) Mental speculator means harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathena (SB 5.18.12), manorathena by the mental plane, airship, he's simply hovering. They have no standard.
Yogeśvara: This is what the conclusion we came to yesterday with that other guest, that he says they have also find truths in China, they have also found truths in other scriptures.
Prabhupāda: So what is that truth? (French) (break) ...is that reality?
Yogeśvara: He says he himself, he doesn't have the words to describe it.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot describe the reality, then you have not received the reality. (French) (break) That means, as soon as you say you cannot describe, then you have no idea what is the reality.
Yogeśvara: He's willing to admit that.
Prabhupāda: So if you are actually searching after reality, why not, if reality is available from other source, why don't you take it?
Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. But the question is how I shall give up this body. The cats, dogs, they also give up their body, and I'll also have to give up my body. But shall I give up the body like cats and dogs, or as human being? That is the process. Therefore one should, a human being should prepare himself how to give up this body. That is humanity. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).
Yogeśvara: Let me relate the information little by little. He says "The word science is misleading. Generally the word science is used by people who are enemies of science to make it, to pinpoint it, that 'This is the enemy.' So they call it science, a general word."
Robert Gouiran: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are misleading. They have no knowledge, and they are misleading. The basic principle of knowledge... They have no idea of spiritual basic principle. They take material basic principle. Therefore the beginning of their knowledge is wrong.
Bhagavān: To become thoughtless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are disgusted with this material thought, therefore they want to make it zero. But that is not possible. You must think of something. But they have no spiritual idea. They do not know what is spiritual thinking. They think that "Make it zero. These thoughts, let us make it zero." Just like a diseased man, suffering for, from the very beginning of his life... Then, if somebody suggests that "When you'll be cured, you'll very nicely eat, nicely walk and nicely think," so he's coming to the stage of diseased condition, "Again thinking? Again eating? Again lying down on bed? Then what is the difference? No, no. It must be zero: no eating, no sleeping, no bedding, nothing." He's thinking like that. Because he has got bad experience of his diseased condition, he thinks, "Again if there is eating, again if there is walking, then how it can be cured?" He cannot think of. These rascals, because they have no idea what is spiritual thinking, they want to make this thinking zero only. That's all. Śūnyavādī. They are called Śūnyavādī, nirvāṇa, Buddhist philosophy. "Your body is subjected to pains and pleasure; so dismantle this body." This is Buddha philosophy. "Make it zero. There will be no more pains and pleasure." "You have got some trouble in the eyes? Pluck it out." He does not know how to cure it. He simply knows, "Pluck it out." This is their philosophy. Asatyere satya kari māni. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song.
Paramahaṁsa: It seems, the more we strive to push the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement forward, the more māyā puts obstacles in the way to stop us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but as soon as you become strong, naturally there will be more enemies. That is natural. Therefore last night I said, "If there is no understanding of God, where is religion?" This is not religion, the cheating. There cannot be any conception of religion without conception of God. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the law given by God. So if you have no idea about God, where is your religion? Religion does not mean some formalities. No, that is not religion. Formalities we have also, but we have clear conception of God. Here is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa.
Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.
Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.
Prabhupāda: That is going on everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Communism, the idea is nice. But they are imperfect. Imperfect. Their philosophy is that everything belongs to the state.
Reverend Powell: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that is imperfect idea. Our philosophy is everything belongs to God. So unless they come to this conclusion, they'll remain imperfect. The equal distribution of wealth, everything belongs to God—that is very good idea. But if it is limited within certain area... Just like the communistic state. Besides that, this is imperfect in the sense, they have no idea who are nationals. Not only they, even the capitalists. National means those who are born in that particular land. So there are animals also. They are also national. But because they are imperfect, either the communists or capitalists, they do not accept the animals as nationals. They are sent to the slaughterhouse. These things are happening because they are imperfect. They have no God conscious views. They have crippled views. They are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: God is everything. God is darkness also. We say, "God is that from whom everything comes." So light also comes; darkness also comes. So darkness also comes from God.
Guest (3): Do you think meditation is a way to see God inside yourself?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the description of meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, by their mind concentrating upon God, they try to see Him. So you must know what is God. Just like our institution, they know what is God, description of God. They can think of God. But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of Him?
Guest (2): In your books you talk about Brahmaloka, which, I suppose is heaven.
Prabhupāda: No, there are many lokas. Heaven also one of them. Brahmaloka also one of them. Don't you see so many planetary system. So there are innumerable planets. Some of them may be Brahmaloka, Candraloka, Varuṇaloka, Sūryaloka, and so many others. So Brahmaloka is one of the planets.
Prabhupāda: Just like gold. Gold is gold. If the gold is in the hand of some Hindu, then will it be called Hindu gold? Similarly, religion means obedience to God. So where is Hindu religion? Where is Christian religion? Where is Muslim religion? God is everywhere, and we are just meant for obeying God. That is one religion, obedience to God. Why they have manufactured this Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, this religion, that...? Therefore they are all pretending religion. Real religion is obedient... Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law. Law is made by the state. The law cannot be Hindu law, Muslim law, Christian law, this law, that law. Law is meant for everyone. Obedience to the state. That is law. Similarly, religion means obedience to God. Then one who has no conception of God, no idea of God, where is religion? That is pretending religion. Therefore in the Bhāgavata you'll find, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "All pretending type of religion is rejected." And Kṛṣṇa also said the same thing, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all this pretending religion. You simply surrender unto Me. That is real religion." What is the use of speculating on pretending religion. That is not religion at all. Just like pretending law. Law cannot be pretending. Law is law, given by the state. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. That is religion. If you follow, then you are religious. If you don't follow, then you are demon. Make things very simplified. Then it will be appealing to everyone. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for making things very simplified. Accept God, accept your position as God's servant and serve God. That's all, three words.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you have accepted the name of God as Allah, is it not?
Atreya Ṛṣi: But he's saying that their name is material, it's different...
Prabhupāda: No, no, then you have no idea of God. God is not material. God is not material.
Guest: Well, you have said though have a lion, lion who lives in the forest and you write lion.
Prabhupāda: That is material, that is material.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nāma... (Break)...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jñāna, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: That is also better than killing animals.
Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible.
Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?
Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.
Prabhupāda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation.
Prabhupāda: No killing.
Amogha: Yes, but the Buddhist monks, when they beg, they simply accept whatever alms they receive, and if they receive meat then they'll eat that, and if they receive some raw grains then they eat that. Actually that is a higher state of renunciation.
Paramahaṁsa: And if they receive some cigarettes they'll smoke them.
Amogha: Yes, and if they receive-they'll take anything, they are so renounced. So isn't that more spiritual?
Prabhupāda: They have no idea what is spiritual. Buddhist religion is not a spiritual. It is material. If you kill me then I feel pain; therefore I shall not kill you. This is.
Prabhupāda: No. There is absolute happiness. You do not know that. We are meant for that, because we are living beings. But on account of your ass quality you do not like to understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.
Amogha: My parents used to tell me that nothing can be absolutely true, because everything is really finer shades of grey.
Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.
Amogha: They think that people who say there is Absolute Truth have not observed the other thoughts of other people, so they haven't seen everything.
Prabhupāda: What is that other thought? We know everyone's thought. We know everyone's thought.
Amogha: Yes. They think it's not practical action. They think practical action is politics or some physical thing like the hospital. Money.
Prabhupāda: It means they have no idea of the spiritual identity. Their idea is that matter is important. But they do not know that matter is not important, but the spirit is important. That is moving the matter. It is very easy to understrand. Because the spirit soul is within this body, it is moving. But they cannot understand-dull-headed. What is that force that is moving this body? That they do not consider to understand.
Carol: If God is in everything, then the personal attributes must be part of Him, it, whatever.
Amogha: She says personal attributes are part of God.
Carol: But God is not just limited to...
Prabhupāda: You have no idea of God.
Carol: No. I don't think...
Prabhupāda: He must be person. As soon as you say "He knows everything," "He creates," and so many other things, then these are all personal. You say "He." "He." These are all personal.
Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing. Our Mr. Nanda is presenting another religion, mānava-dharma. Everyone is manufacturing. And Vivekananda is supporting, "Yes, every type of religious system is as good." This is nonsense. Actually, they do not know what is religion.
Prabhupāda: In the modern society there is no idea of first-class man, what is first-class man. They take it, a minister is first-class man. A first-class man is by these qualities: śamo damas titikṣā. It is not by the fat salary. By the first-class qualities.
Amogha: Some people, like this man, they notice that qualities are degrading and natural resources are degrading, so many problems are coming. But they don't know what to do. They're simply reporting that "There we go down."
Prabhupāda: They cannot counteract. The counteraction is here in our society. They should accept it. Then it will be all right. So become first-class man. Everyone will hear you. And you can face any so-called first-class man and talk with him straightforward that "You are fourth class."
Bali-mardana: Previously the only big building was the church.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big church or king's royal palace, like that. Ordinary men, they used to live in cottage. That is especially in India. They did not... What is the use? If you are not going to live there... It is a common sense. But they have no idea. They are thinking, "We shall live forever in this house." And Kṛṣṇa says that "I will come as death and take away all your possession." That they cannot understand. They will think that "No, my possession is all. I will die. I will go to hell. Still, it is my possession." This is. He will go to hell; still, his possession. (laughs) This is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man. So this Gurukula means from the childhood age we are training them so that in future it will be easier. That is the purpose of Gurukula.
Jayatīrtha: Do you know any first-class men?
Mrs. Wax: I can't find any in the society. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. We have no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is drunkard, everyone smoker, everyone is gambler, everyone is illicit sex, where is first-class man? So in the absence of first-class man there must be criminals. Aiye. So there is a need of first-class men, first-class men and second-class men. Third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, they are automatically there. So at the present moment fourth-class, fifth-class men. Third-class is also very scarcely found, and there is no question of first-class, second-class. But as in the full body we require brain, we require arm, we require belly, we require leg... Everything is required for different purposes of work. But at the present moment there is no place for the first-class men. When we ask our students that "You become free from all these four classes of sinful activity: no illicit sex, no meat-eating," people laugh: "Oh, why you are asking?" They do not know what is the ideal man. They think, "Illicit sex, what is wrong there? Meat-eating, what is wrong there?" They do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore all fourth-class men. They cannot understand even what is the value of these things. So you cannot be happy with fourth-class men. At least there must be a section, first-class men. That we are trying to create, a first-class man from this Gurukula.
Prabhupāda: ...that requires complete overhauling. This religion, that religion will not help. They have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. Everyone is hovering on the mental plane. (break) ...the principle of Ba'hai religion?
Jayatīrtha: It was founded in Persia. It's a hodge-podge principle. (Prabhupāda laughs)
Jagadīśa: They think that everyone is evolving, that after taking this human life, you have to go to heaven. That's the next stage, even if you're the most sinful of all sinners.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Even one is sinful, he will also go?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is example. It is example that this sarva-vyāpaka-prakāśa is coming from the sun globe. So sun globe is localized. Everyone can see. And this prakāśa is coming from Him. Similarly, the sarva-vyāpaka energy is extended everywhere, but it is coming from Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (3): Coming, right. But that has no form.
Prabhupāda: Why no form? You can see.
Indian man (3): But you see the mat..., a material.
Prabhupāda: It is a matter... You have no idea without matter. How you can say of spirit? You have no idea.
Indian man (3): God is not matter.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you cannot...
Indian man (3): This is not a direct...
Prabhupāda: You are accepting God is impersonal because He is sarva-vyāpaka. Why? Sarva-vyāpaka... He can be... You are thinking in your own way, that you are sitting here; you are not sarva-vyāpaka. You are vyāpaka here only, so you are thinking God is like you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is this desire for material happiness the cause of material attachment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. When they forget to serve Kṛṣṇa and wants to enjoy this material world... Don't you see that these Māyāvādī philosophers are trying for liberation, and still, they are expecting to become God. That is another desire. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. The high ambition, to become God or equal to God, that is going on, struggle for existence.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What about these rascals like Sai Baba? They use Kṛṣṇa's philosophy, and then they twist it in such a way that it becomes Māyāvāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He's a cheater. People want to be cheated. They come to sādhu for some material benefit. Don't you see that people are so much anxious to touch the feet of a sādhu? What is the reason? Reason is that if he gets some favor of the sādhu, "Then I shall be happy materially." That's all. They have no idea, becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa. Āśīrvāda (Hindi).
Prabhupāda: Then what did he say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret.
Prabhupāda: ...is interested in God throughout the whole world, cent percent. We are simply canvassing, "Here is God. Take to God." This is our position. And still, some of you are cooperating with me. That is good fortune. Otherwise nobody is interested in God, nobody. They have no idea of God. They are not interested in God. Still, we are predominant, or people know us as Hare Kṛṣṇa people. This is our good luck. Nobody... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "There is no scarcity of anything in this world. Only scarcity is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He used to say like that.
Prabhupāda: We are not for material opulence. We are for ideal character. That is wanted. But they have no idea that there can be a class of men, ideal character, ideal knowledge, ideal advancement. They have no such idea. "Simply bring money and enjoy sense gratification," that's all. In that way they will never be happy, but foolish person, they have no leader to give them ideal and neither by nature they are not inclined. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Who is giving them ideal that "Come to God, and you will be satisfied"? Nobody is giving. They are simply durāśayā. They are thinking by material opulence they will be happy. This is their ignorance. Therefore so much struggle all over the world. It is not the question of India or America. It is the material way of life.
Prabhupāda: So he has got everything. Why don't you explain what you have learned from it.
Indian man: Well, he's given us...
Prabhupāda: That means you have no idea what is divine life, and still, you are going to Divine Life Society.
Indian man: Well, he should teach... Well, the basics were no meat-eating, no intoxicants, and also no gambling and no...
Prabhupāda: They say? They have? They say so? They have restriction?
Indian man: Well, no cheating, no gambling and no cheating. He's got restrictions of...
Prabhupāda: Do you follow these restrictions?
Prabhupāda: Aurobindo has no clear knowledge. And which other swami you are reading?
Guest: We've read... Which one did you read?
Woman: Maharishi.
Prabhupāda: No, he has no idea.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the government accept you as guide, then everything will be all right. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Tell them that "We are not going to take any salary. You simply take our advice, and govern." The modern legislative assembly, they should be composed of first-class brāhmaṇas, no salary. Then the government will be first-class. All of them are after money; therefore they are trying to capture the power. They have no idea, no desire for the well-being of the citizens. (break) ...this tree? Dates?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Called palmetto tree. Palmetto tree. Not fruit-bearing. Not fruit-bearing.
Prabhupāda: (Break)...beyond the sun.
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic system, if one has got some money, he will spend the money in three functions. When the child is born, very gorgeously he will spend money, give in charity. Always in the Bhāg... Nanda Mahārāja is giving in charity cows and money, and Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is giving. Kṛṣṇa, as family man, He was giving in charity. So when the child is born, the horoscope is made, and to make the child happy, blessings of saintly persons, brāhmaṇas, they are given. Ordinary men also sumptuously fed. So bhūribhiḥ.(?) Everyone gives some blessings so that the child is.... Then marriage. During marriage time.... You have seen Kṛṣṇa's mother's marriage? That was the system. The father gives to his heart content, as much as possible, to the daughter. The Kṛṣṇa's mother was royal prince, so her father gave so many elephants, so many horses, so many chariots. That was the system. (break) This śrāddha ceremony. That is also, feeding the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly person, poor man, relative. Lavishly they spend money during three occasions: birth, death, and marriage. During birth the father spends; the marriage, father spends; and death, the son spends. This is the system. So social reformation, but there is no idea how the society will be happy. There is no idea. They are trying to remove this intoxication, LSD, but do not see the cause why LSD has come. They do not try to stop that cause. When the cause is effective, then they are disturbed with the effect. This is the defect. Neither they'll take advice. So how they'll be able to.... Big, big officer, drawing high salary, that's all. There is no effect. Neither there can be any effect. It is not possible. They do not know. Neither they want it. So we are advocating, "Remove these four sinful activities," so nobody will agree. "Illicit sex is our life, to keep a friend, to keep a secretary." And we are advising, "No illicit sex." Then where is life? That's all.
Jackie Vaughn: I think it's all in the theory. We are not making first things first.
Prabhupāda: That means whatever we do, we do in ignorance. You do not know what is the first thing or what to do first. That we are correcting. Here is the first thing. Pour water in the root.
Jackie Vaughn: Right.
Prabhupāda: We are correcting-Kṛṣṇa, or God, then everything will be all right. Otherwise failure. Now you American people you write, "In God We Trust." But if I ask you "What is God?" you cannot reply. Then how do you trust in God? Blindly. If we trust in God, we must know that God is actually the only trustworthy person. Then if I put my trust in Him, that is sensible. But if I do not know what is God, no idea, and if we simply write, "In God We Trust," what is this? This is slogan. But actually people are becoming godless. In schools, colleges, they are prohibiting, "Don't talk of God." Do they not?
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: You can make them friends, that "Your flowers in the garden will dry and fall down, so while it is fresh, if it is offered to God, and you'll get benefit out of it, why you object?" Yes. That's a fact.
Jayādvaita: They'll do that, too.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so convince them. They will be not enemy.
Hari-śauri: We used to tell them that in Melbourne, but they said "Leave them alone 'cause we want to enjoy them." They said that they're in their gardens for their own enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: They have no idea that why the flowers are taken. It is not for our enjoyment, for your enjoyment. When your flowers will be accepted by Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy.
Jayādvaita: It's a little difficult to explain afterwards. Instead of explaining before, that "Can we take," they would take and then explain.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you have to manage. That is preaching. What you'll do? I have seen that garden. There are lemons, apples; they are rotting and falling down. So while they can be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, why don't you give it? (break) ...too hot. At night, of course, it is not hot. They lie down in open place like this on a cot. Very pleasing sleeping.
Satsvarūpa: The brāhmaṇa was supposed to be learned in the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. And he said, "These are all...," what is called? Mythology. Why mythology? Why do you think God like you? God is all-powerful; He can do anything. That is real faith. That means you have no faith. "If God can do which tallies with my activities, then I shall believe." What you are? Nonsense. This is their general argument. How we can believe this? And why not believe this? You are seeing so many wonderful things. I gave this example to another man, that there is a coconut tree. Now find out where is the pipe and pumping so that the water is pushed. Show me. You have no idea that such a high height, how water is going there. And full of water. How the water is transferred there? Show me the pipe and pump. You have got the idea, that with pipe and pump we can raise the water. Where is that pipe and pump? Show me. Every day, every moment, we are seeing so many wonderful things. How you are thinking.... "I am Dr. Frog. Pacific Ocean may be four feet. All right, five feet. Make compromise, ten feet." (laughter) Rascal. If you think for many millions of years, then you'll have no solution. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo (Bs. 5.34). It is not possible in that way. They have no idea of God.
Hari-śauri: Everything is there, but actually they don't see.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not devotee. Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Mām ebhyaḥ param, mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ parama-avyayam. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They have no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: ...When God is there, within the heart, He'll give you, "Do like this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. If one is sincere to serve the Lord, the Lord is situated in everyone's heart, He'll give him, "Do like this." Teṣām evānukampārtham aham (indistinct) (BG 10.11). It is special favor of God. Even if he's less aware of everything to be arranged(?), He'll give instruction, "Do like this." So there is no scarcity of instruction if one is sincere. Thank you very much. (leaves house) (break) ...I came to your country for preaching this, I had no idea how to do it. (laughs) But things are being model. People are surprised how within a short so many short years this world movement has sprung. I had no idea how to do it. (laughter)
Kīrtanānanda: Seeing your palace here is almost like seeing the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple for the first time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Raman Reti there was no temple. Similarly, in this quarter there was no such building. Many people will come to see it.
Prabhupāda: The defect of modern civilization is that they have no idea about liberation. Neither they have any idea about transmigration of the soul. From the very root, they are defective. They are thinking... Just like animals. Dog is thinking, "I am this dog. I am born dog and I'll die, that's finished, everything." He cannot think that "I can become also man." He cannot think that. So the modern civilization, they cannot think even that there is next life and we can go... They have got the tendency to go to the higher planetary system, moon. Artificially, they are trying, but they do not know. Just like they can go to any planet, sarvaga. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). They do not know this, although they have got the tendency to go. But they do not know how to go, positively what are the position of the different planets or Vaikuṇṭhaloka or liberation or next life, transmigration—nothing of the sort. Simply like dogs. Now consider this point, whether I'm speaking right or wrong. I know I am speaking the right thing, but if you deny, then you talk amongst yourselves.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process.
Prabhupāda: So what is his, what is the charge?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He says that people are accusing that Hinduism, it inhibits the progress of mankind.
Prabhupāda: What is that progress? Dog's jumping is progress? (laughter) Is that progress? A dog is running here and there, here and there, and you are running on the four wheels? Is that progress? That is not Vedic system. The Vedic system is that human being has got a certain amount of energy. Better energy than the animals. Better consciousness. That should be utilized for spiritual advancement. So whole Vedic system is meant for spiritual advancement. The energy is employed in another direction, not the energy is employed to compete with the dog. Therefore sometimes those who have no idea of religion, they see that the... "Hindus" is not the proper term. The Indian saintly persons, they are not busy like the dogs. Because they think the dog race is life. But actual life is spiritual progress.
Prabhupāda: They are doing wrong thing every moment.
Vipina: Yes, but I mean no one works to do the wrong thing; they work to do the right thing.
Prabhupāda: But they'll not take the right thing. If you say the right thing, they will come to beat you with shoes. Run away.
Hari-śauri: They don't have any idea what the right thing is. Everything they're doing is wrong.
Prabhupāda: They want right thing, but they have no idea of right thing, and if you say the right thing, they will not accept it. This is their disease.
Rūpānuga: That is more than māyā; that is their heart.
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?
Guest (2): Superior.
Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.
Woman guest (2): It is not as good.
Prabhupāda: So if you want more knowledge about God, then you must come to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life.
Prabhupāda: Rival to Nelson. They published, Guardian.
Rāmeśvara: The Guardian, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good newspaper.
Prabhupāda: It has become against.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because...
Prabhupāda: It is political.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because of that.
Prabhupāda: Only politics. So mean-minded, they have no idea even beyond politics.
Jayatīrtha: We have a nice photograph at the reception room downstairs.
George Harrison: Actually it was half built.
Gurudāsa: Yes. Even the building you went into, there's more, the roof.
Prabhupāda: That courtyard is very beautiful. There is a tāmala tree. That is a very valuable tree. The Bisanchand Seth asked me to cut.
Gurudāsa: Yes, I remember.
Prabhupāda: What a nonsense, such a.... He has no idea. Now, on account of that tree, it looks so beautiful.
Hari-śauri: It is, it's very wonderful. The whole tree has flourished since the temple began.
Gurudāsa: We planned the whole temple around that tree. The whole plans.
Harikeśa: We have to get you on every radio in the world, Prabhupāda. We just have to put you on the radio everywhere.
Prabhupāda: You do it, I give you the ideas.
Harikeśa: Oh, everything you say is so wonderful. We have to put you on the radio. These people, they have no idea.
Prabhupāda: No, thing is that I say all these things because I always think of this. I always think.
Hari-śauri: If you don't forget Kṛṣṇa, then...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you always think how to talk with these demonic people. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our program is solid, but if we have to argue with animals, that is a different thing. Otherwise any human being, they will accept. But the modern civilization means to keep the people in general in animal platform, that's all, and cheat them.
Bhagavān: Most of the people who..., they are becoming attracted to this communist philosophy. They have no idea how to practically apply it. All they are saying is "It is an opportunity to take from the rich and give me to enjoy." But they are not seeing any scope of community cooperation. This is all impractical. They are saying, "I will get money from my boss. I will take his wealth and distribute." They are simply materialists.
Prabhupāda: "That also distribute for me. More share for me." (laughs) Now there is drought; there is no rain. What the capitalists or communists can do in this connection? If they are able to present any program how to counteract? Then where is your progress? When there is some calamity, you both of you simply (indistinct). That's all. You cannot do anything. Then where is your progress?
Hari-śauri: They couldn't find the book.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they couldn't. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). This is the verse. Religion means the words given by God. But they have no idea what is God, whether He can speak or He's a dull, dumb. That is the difficulty. The Māyāvādīs, they say God has no mouth. So how He will speak? He has no eyes, He has no ears. Then who will hear my prayer? That is Māyāvādī definition. But Vedas say apāni-pādo javana gṛhīta.(?) That both things, that He has no leg, but he can walk faster than anyone. He has no ear, but He can hear everything. Just like we have got this ear, but I cannot hear what is going on next room. But God has no ear, but He can hear here, there, everywhere. This is Vedic definition. This is Vedic definition. Śṛṇoti akarṇa. He has no ears, but He hears everything. That means that it is not the fact that He has no ear, but He has no limited ear like me. And therefore described sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). You cannot compare with this body. Because sat means eternal. So this body is not eternal. So when God has no body means He hasn't got a body like this. He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge. But He has body. You cannot say impersonal. But His body is of different quality. Just like you have got body, but you cannot swim in the..., or you cannot remain within the water. Similarly, he has got body, but not the body like this, perishable. Sac-cid-ānanda, this body is perishable. But He has got imperishable. Avyayātmā. We have to understand in that way. Not that because it is stated He has no body that means He is zero. No, he has got body, but not body not like this.
Prabhupāda: Three persons? God is three persons?
Bhūgarbha: Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. But he says that that means the same thing, as far as he's concerned, as sac-cid-ānanda.
Prabhupāda: So why three persons? God is one. Expansion, you can say expansion. Just like brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti (SB 1.2.11). The person is one. In the dictionary it is said, "God, the Supreme Being," is it not? Person is one. So person is one, now His expansion, His son, His spirit, what is that? Holy Spirit... That is another thing. But the person is one, the Supreme. What is the definition of God? Just see.
Bhūgarbha: He said that in Christianity it's more complicated than that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Person is one, but they have no idea the Supreme Person can expand. What is that?
Hari-śauri: It says, "Superhuman being, worshiped as having power over nature and human fortunes; Deity."
Prabhupāda: God?
Hari-śauri: Yes, this is the definition of God. "Superhuman being."
Prabhupāda: Human being?
Prabhupāda: No, same. But you must explain at least. I want to know how far you have understood spiritual culture as it is. That is my question.
Mr. Hamidi: Well, of course, it is very difficult to differentiate.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is difficult. Practically you do not know what is spiritual culture. That is a fact. So first of all, you must try to understand what is spiritual culture. Spiritual culture means... There are two things within our experience. Matter and spirit. So matter is this body, and spirit is the soul within the body. Without spirit, this material body has no value. That we experience every day. When a man is dead, we take it, now the body is useless, throw it away. Therefore the body is important so long the spirit soul is there. And that is spirit. And when we study that spirit soul, that is the beginning of spiritual culture. If you have no idea of what is that spirit, then there is no question of spiritual culture. With this body we cannot make any progress of spiritual culture. That is not possible. The body is matter. They're explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā. Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. So try to understand what is spirit, what is matter.
Prabhupāda: God is great, but how He is great?
Nandarāṇī: That is not emphasized, how He is great, just that He is great.
Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?
Prabhupāda: Our mission is not to make the nonvegetarian as vegetarian. That will automatically be done. Our mission is to teach people how to love God.
Ali: That's right. I've noticed that. I had that conversation with Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: And to love God we must have definite idea of God, our exchange. Just like materially also, if somebody loves somebody, one must know each other. Otherwise where there is question of love? Love means direct contact. So they speak of love of Godhead. Just like the Christian people, they say "Love of Godhead." But they have no idea who is God. So where is the question of love? It is an impractical proposition, love of Godhead. First of all, you must know who is God. If I love somebody, I must know him, what he is. So this is going on. They speak of love of Godhead, but they do not know who is God or what is God. Therefore they are misguided. Simply it is words. There is no practical value. Do you agree with this point or not? If you have no idea of God, if you have no business with God, then where is the question of love? What is the definition of love, huh? What is the definition of love?
Ali: We talk about love, but I think you should personally, an individual should experience. My definition would be, a, uh, unworthy.
Prabhupāda: Definition of love, you can explain what is definition of love.
Ali: Why couldn't spirits grow without taking this body? Why couldn't spirits grow in the spiritual world without taking this material body.
Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again." So it is good life? That is due to ignorance. There is very good life without the prison house. That he does not know. He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.
Ali: How can a spirit become so ignorant?
Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.
Mrs. Sahani: This is the highest knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is the highest knowledge. It doesn't matter whether you are Muhammadan, Christian or Hindu or this or that. Whether you know God and you have fully surrendered to Him, then it is perfect. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevamalam. If you simply perform the ritualistic ceremonies very strictly, but you have no idea of God, you have no knowledge how to love Him, it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
You are very religious, very nice, but are you interested with God or dog? "No, I am interested with dog." Then where is religion? Religion means you must be interested with God. That is religion What is the report? How much they are interested now?
Nava-yauvana: Forty million pounds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Forty million pounds are being spent in Germany to take care of dog. This is advancement of civilization.
Dayānanda: They think that everything belongs to humanity as a group.
Prabhupāda: But that is not practical. Everything belongs to the humanity, then why you are making divisions of nations?
Dayānanda: That's what they say, that that is the problem.
Prabhupāda: And the problem will continue because you are taking account a section of living entity. You, because you have no idea of dog and other animals, what they are, they are also sons of God. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ. Unless you come to this understanding, there is no question of humanity. This is the humanity understanding. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ.
Commissioner: Because we take the local people as trust board members. We appoint officers.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said if you keep them dogs, what is the use of United Nations? You cannot make the dogs united. That is not possible.
Commissioner: Yes. Therefore recently in Tirupati we have been thinking of starting a training institute along with Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Prabhupāda: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have no idea.
Commissioner: They have no idea. Ramakrishna Mission we asked.
Prabhupāda: They have no idea.
Prabhupāda: No, no, your case is different. But generally people they are losing interest in philosophy because they are becoming śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. They are after some job to get money. So they see that "What I shall get by learning philosophy? Let me learn technology. I'll get a good job and good money and enjoy life." This is...
Paṇḍita: That is general trend. Of course, I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In India also the same thing.
Paṇḍita: Yes, yes. I was working in Bombay as a stenographer in a private company. In 1964 I resigned my job after reading Vivekananda's works. I'll tell you about some of my own history. Afterwards I went and joined the... I went and stayed in Hrishikesh Shivananda āśrama for two months, and I wanted to study this philosophy, etc., in the originals. But at Shivananda āśrama it was not...
Prabhupāda: They have no idea.
Gupta: They don't know what is God. But they only respect God out of fear.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also good. Ārto arthārthī. Ārtaḥ. That is good. But still they do not know what is God. They have simply heard the name of God, there is God. That is good also. Than the rascals who deny the existence of God. So in comparison to them, they are very good. At least they accept there is something as God. God is good, God is kind, God is... But what is God they have no idea. That's a fact. That they do not know. Either the nonbelievers or believers. Both of them. They have no idea of God. This is the first time perhaps, in the world we are introducing, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa."
Lokanātha: You have said many times you could give complete address of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes we give address.
Prabhupāda: Do you think United Nations is making any tangible progress?
Doctor: Sir, it at least brings people together under one umbrella to discuss. If you did not have that...
Prabhupāda: But discussion, that I have already explained.
Doctor: Sir, maybe, but if you don't discuss, you'll fight. Because if aim we don't meet at all then they will have the struggle.
Prabhupāda: No. If you have no idea how to come to the conclusion, ciraṁ vicinvan. You can forever go on discussing, you'll never come... You do not know what is the aim. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).
Doctor: Maybe so, but if two people instead of coming to blows come together to talk, it is a step in the right direction.
Prabhupāda: No right direction because he does not know what is the aim.
Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that "I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight." This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and "I am Christian" or "Hindu" or "Mohammedan, so let us fight." That's all.
Prabhupāda: ...devotion, activities. Who can take more care than the father and the mother? So you combine together, make a batch of good character, ideal character in the whole world. There is no ideal character. Everyone is drunkard and meat-eater or woman-hunter. What is the civilization? Hog civilization. (break) ...civilization. Work hard, get some money, and spend it for intoxication, illicit sex. This is civilization. Is it not? They have no idea how to make civilized.
Devotee (1): I was hearing that before I left England there was some trouble in Scotland over the rules about the bars and drinking. And now they want to make a rule, a law, that the children can be allowed into the bars under their parents... They make it a big social...
Prabhupāda: They allow the children sit down. They take soda water and the father-mother drinking. I have seen it. They are learning from the father and mother from the begin...
Prabhupāda: If you say my idea then I become one of you. (laughter) So I don't want that. I say I am foolish man. I have no idea. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is idea. Just like a child, he speaks the words of the father. If the father... The child asks,"Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is a stick." So if the child says, "That is a stick," so that is correct. He may be a child. Because he repeats the words of the father... (Hindi) If the people are fools and rascals, then other will be fool and rascal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). (Hindi) If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme then where is the question of interpretation? (Hindi conversation) But who accepted? This is a fact. You try to understand that before me for 200 years so many swamis, yogis were there. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. (Hindi conversation) He is not teacher he is cheater. Why should you change Kṛṣṇa's words? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't manufacture. What Kṛṣṇa has said, you say. Just as a child he can say, "This is a stick." "How you have learned?" "Father said." That's all. (Hindi) I started this business with forty rupees. (laughter) (Hindi) Yes when I went to New York they allowed me only forty rupees.
Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair. So that body has changed. It is not the same body. In which body you came out of the womb of your mother, that was a small body. That was a different body. This example given there. This body is changing during your experience of life. Similarly, after death the body will change, but you will continue. This is self-realization. It is not very difficult.
Prabhupāda: The child has father's..., the life from father's property, and the mother is only giving you shelter. She is not the proprietor. Even in other's, womb of other's wife, a child is born... I give birth to a child in other's wife, that is my child. Mother is considered the field, kṣetra. But when I till the kṣetra, field, the production is mine. This idea. The land may be yours, but if I plow on it and produce food grains, that is mine. That is not yours. This is the... Even in other's wife, if somebody begets child, the child belongs to the father. There are many instances. (break) Mat-prāṇa-nāthas: "Still, you are My Lord." That is love. "My love is conditional. If you do to my liking, then I love you"—that is not love. That is not love; that is business. That business is going on under the name of love. A man and woman—"If you have got pocket filled up with money, I love you. If you have got beauty, then I love you." That is not love. That is lust! They do not know what is love.
Hari-śauri: They have no idea of actually who is God or what is God. They don't know...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They make God under his condition. That is not God. God cannot be under your condition.
Hari-śauri: But we have to show them that it's good.
Prabhupāda: And "You do not know what is good. It is good. We have given up these bad habits, sinful life. It is not... But you have no idea that these are good. You have idea, but out of your definite malice you cannot appreciate. You are spending millions of dollars for giving up this LSD, and our power is so strong, as soon as one comes, he gives up. But you are so rascal, you do not appreciate. That means you are rascal. Our power is there; our reaction is there for good. That's a fact. But you cannot understand. You are so rascal; you are so fallen down. The same, like the hog. He does not know what is the..., how nice is halavā. You give him halavā; he'll not take it. He will take stool. That is his misfortune. It cannot say that halavā is bad, but he cannot appreciate because he's hog. He'll prefer to eat stool. We are giving up these nonsense, nasty things. You cannot appreciate. 'Oh, they are giving up meat-eating? It is brainwashing.' You are so low, hog life." Tell them like that. "As the hog cannot appreciate what is the value of nice halavā, similarly you cannot appreciate. Your brain has to be washed. Please come inside. We shall wash it." Is it not?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You require to..., your brain to be washed. Then you'll understand the value of this. So let us treat you. Come here. You are a good candidate."
Gargamuni: All the libraries, they say, "We have too many religious books, too much religion."
Rāmeśvara: And the government is so much afraid of offending one religion, so they have become secular. But there only is one religion. There is only one religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One religion, this is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), to become surrendered to God. That is religion. And they're useless. That is our religion. We are teaching surrender to God, but they have no idea that there is God. They have forgotten that "There is God, and He can talk with me. I can talk with Him." They cannot believe all these things. "Even if God is there, He cannot talk. He has no mouth, He has no leg. Nirākāra, impersonal." This is their position.
Prabhupāda: They simply..., a official church and temple, and they have no serious attachment, simply kaitava. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). That is another kind of cheating. He's not religious, but he's posing himself: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." That's all. He does not know what is religion. This is going on. Religion means direct touch with God. That is religion. So they have no idea of God. How there can be religion? Here is religion. We do not do anything which is not in interest of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.
Prabhupāda: In India, the Māyāvādīs, they have no idea. "Nirākāra." What is the nonsense, nirākāra? The things are going on, imagination. "You can accept anyone as God." This is going on in India, Hindu religion. They do not know that here is... Kṛṣṇa is God. Only few Vaiṣṇavas, they know what is God. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Otherwise nobody knows. That is the defect. They do not know God; they do not know what God wants. So where is religion? There is no religion. Bogus. Cheating. They do not know about God, and they do not know what God wants. Then where is the religion? All bogus. They have created something, mano-dharma, mental concoction. Otherwise how they can kill animals, all other religion killing animals. What do they know about God? God... They say, "Supreme father." Eh, and animal has... He's not son. So wherefrom the animal came? If God is supreme father, then He is not father of the animals?
Pṛthu-putra: He's father of everyone.
Gargamuni: I have put the books back. I gave them some other books. They had some Bhāgavatams. (break)
Prabhupāda: Then you have to say that you have no idea what is God. Then they will be offended. Better not, that not to say. (laughs) We know it, that's all.
Pṛthu-putra: Just introduce it as it is. Just introduce as it is.
Prabhupāda: Let us with logic, philosophy, talk. There is no conception of God throughout the whole world. Vague idea.
Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.
Satsvarūpa: Lord Caitanya, when Rāmānanda Rāya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihā bāhya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.
Prabhupāda: And therefore I say "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash?"
Hari-śauri: Yes. They say, "Think for yourself," but they don't know what themselves are. They don't know "Who am I," so how can they think for themselves?
Prabhupāda: That you have to prove, that "You have no brain, no intelligence. Therefore you are finding out completely different. On which platform we are speaking, you do not know. So that platform, first of all you have to distinguish—it is matter or spirit? Then spiritual. You have no idea what is spirit, and where is spiritual platform. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point, that the spirit is within, not this body. That is your identity."
Prabhupāda: Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, his father was a go-down clerk in a tanner position(?). So in go-down, dāl go-down, dāl was falling down from the bag. Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, he was a boy, he was taking the dāl and trying to push within the hole. So his father's name was Prasana(?) Bose. His master was a European. He said, "Oh, this boy will be very big man, your son." So he had no idea how to save it, but he was trying to. Dr. Bose personally told me that "I was trying to push the dāl through the hole within the bag." That is not possible, but he did not want to see waste. Why things should be wasted? Immediately that Mr. Morrison said to Prasana Bose, "Your this child will be..." So I had the same tendency. Dr. Bose liked me very much. Very much. He found me a prototype boy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than his own sons.
Prabhupāda: Of course, own son is own son, but he liked me very much, very, very much. He selected.
Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will help.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will help. He has no idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We never thought to read Bhāgavatam as you are now talking. We have not read Bhāgavatam like this yet, so I will have to begin to read again as..." I mean, what... I'm only wondering what kind of talk Patita Uddhāraṇa must have had with him that he felt that this man was qualified.
Prabhupāda: So how he'll make diagram? He has no idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he doesn't. He never thought about it. No one reads the Bhāgavatam as a scientific book, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the point. Except for Your Divine Grace, they are thinking it's story, "It is stories."
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not believe.
Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.
Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who showed you that area?
Prabhupāda: Mukunda. I asked him that "Find out some upper class...." He found out that 26 Second Avenue. (laughs) I did not know. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. He is animal. Know that. What is his idea? And he has not correctly estimated that how high is Himalaya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. A gross underestimation-five miles instead of eighty thousand. Not even close. That means he has no idea.
Prabhupāda: There are... I have seen many places by aeroplane, hilly tract. Perhaps you have also seen. They could never go there. Hundreds and thousands of miles, simply stone.
Prabhupāda: "You are imperfect. So whatever you have written, that is nonsense. And everywhere problem. Why should we waste our time?" Now just try to settle from point of. He's showing this book, I am showing the Bhāgavatam. So you are imperfect, that's a fact. What is the value of your book? If you are basically a rascal, then what is the value of your book? Why shall I waste my time? First of all I take it and I prove it that you are a rascal. You show your book, I show my book. But you have been proved that you are a rascal. Because practically you cannot cross Himalaya. You have no idea what is the Himalaya. You are giving some conflict.
Prabhupāda: That is the Orissa government's principle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is our answer to that? Our reply?
Prabhupāda: What you can reply if you conclude something like... They have no idea of spiritual life. This is disrupting, na dhanaṁ na janam. We don't want this. And they want it. So how you can reply? Everyone wants this, and we say, "We don't want." How you can make compromise? Therefore they say "emasculated." In your country also. "Why? What is the wrong, illicit sex? What is the wrong, intoxication?" They say, "Brainwash. Why not?" Is it not? It is very difficult to push on this movement. Still, we are going. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. (pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you try to translate this afternoon, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Young woman at dead of night, beautiful woman, came to Haridāsa Ṭhākura to offer her body, and he denied. Who will appreciate this? (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We appreciate.
Prabhupāda: No, you appreciate, but in the modern world who will appreciate?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say something is wrong with Haridāsa Ṭhākura.
Prabhupāda: Brainwash.
Prabhupāda: There are no fox.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. The danger is not from the fox. It is from the other people. They catch the peacock and eat it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, no. (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't know. They think it is a pheasant or something. They have no idea it is a peacock, special bird. I asked Abhirama. Sometimes they fly away and they don't come back. I said, "Does it mean that they got lost?" He said, "We don't know exactly what it means, but we are guessing." The people there are...
Prabhupāda: Rākṣasa.
Prabhupāda: So take care of the bones as long as possible. Real life is here. Always remember that. And material world means there are simply all protecting bones and flesh together. They have no idea what they are.(?) Bones and flesh... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Apareyam. It is useless. Not useless-inferior. Real? That jīva-bhūta, which is sustaining. Thank you very much. Print books, and as I have given in my will, half, again print, and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on. Jayapatākā, you are doing that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā, are you doing that? Half spending and half for printing?
Jayapatākā: In Bengal, because the people are so poor, so there we are giving the book and just taking five or ten percent profit margin...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Jayapatākā: ...for the small books, for propaganda purpose, so that we can reach many people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever propaganda require you spend, but print books and distribute. Whatever English book we have got, if we translate into Bengali, we have got enough stock.
Brahmānanda: One of the delegates, he is sitting there, and he was spinning thread on a hand spinner. Then afterwards he stopped and even he fell asleep during the meeting. We were arguing about personalism and impersonalism, and Mr. Bajaj, he interrupted that "Now, you shouldn't... The purpose of this meeting is not to discuss Bhagavad-gītā but just to discuss how to promote Bhagavad-gītā."
Prabhupāda: No idea of... He has no authorized.
Brahmānanda: One thing they recognize is that the young people of India, they want to see the experience of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna in the beginning was bewildered and in the end he agreed. So that experience... I said, "Yes, and we have had the same experience, because as Westerners, in the beginning we didn't even the know the name Kṛṣṇa, and now we are serving Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours a day. So obviously there was some great experience. So that has been given to us by Śrīla Prabhupāda." And then he recognized, "Yes." I said, "So we are... We can actually give our experience." So then he suggested that some publication be made actually dealing with the experiences.
Prabhupāda: That we are giving. This Bhāgavata discourse...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe our Deity will get known that people who bank in our bank, they get more money. (laughs) I think the I.O.B. is thinking like that, that to be connected with the Deity is very auspicious, so they're accentuating the involvement with ISKCON and Your Divine Grace and Rādhā-Rasabehari.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had no idea how that Hare Krishna Land would ever be successful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It was a jungle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what we were thinking. "Why does Prabhupāda want us to live in a jungle?" So far away. Nothing there but mosquitoes, and so many rats. We thought, "Who will come there?"
Prabhupāda: Now when we construct the other building, further down, it will be (indistinct).
| Page Title: | Have no idea (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 26 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=108, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 108 |