Prabhupāda: These four divisions, and there are other four orders of social system. That is according to work, division according to work and quality. Just like the brāhmaṇas, b-r-a-h-m-a-i-n-s, brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of the society. The kṣatriyas, k-s-h-a-t-r-y-a-s, kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas means persons who are interested in politics, in the management of the country, political affairs. They are called kṣatriyas. Similarly, there is the vaiśyas, v-a-i-s-y-a-s. Vaiśyas means the mercantile, productive class. Those who are engaged in producing grains or trade, milk, and in industry. Of course, industry, artisans, they are called, artists, śūdras. Anyway, any person engaged in producing for the needs of the society, they are called vaiśyas. And the worker class is called śūdra. So according to Vedic system, these are eight divisions. Unless the human society is divided into these eight divisions in terms of material and spiritual progress of life, that is not accepted as human society.
Grains (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"grain"
|"grains"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is one regulation. We don't allow them to take anything which is not offered to the Deity. So we offer to the Deity foodstuff, grains, fruits, flowers, milk products, in that way, no meat, no egg, nothing of the sort. Simple food. They are nutritious. We prepare very... Perhaps you have participated in our love feast in Sundays. Yes.
Woman: We're going to... We'll come next Sunday.
Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations... We can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds, no. But we make very nice preparations. Everyone likes.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, we have to offer Kṛṣṇa what Kṛṣṇa likes to eat. So how we can know? In this book we have the things, what Kṛṣṇa wants. He says, "You give Me foodstuff, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26) fruits, flowers, grains, milk, like that." So our diet is Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa wants these things. We prepare these things, and we eat the remnants of food. If Kṛṣṇa says that "You give me meat," then we can offer Kṛṣṇa meat also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me fruits, flowers, grains." So we have no quarrel with the meat-eaters. Let them do whatever he likes. But our concern is that unless Kṛṣṇa takes, we don't take. So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We don't eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. We first of all prepare foodstuff as recommended in the scripture. They are mostly from vegetable, grains, fruits, milk. So we have got enough food.
Interviewer: No meat of any kind.
Prabhupāda: No. No meat, no onion, no garlic, no intoxication, no liquor, we don't smoke even, we don't take tea, coffee. We simply take what is absolutely necessary for keeping the body fit to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't indulge in luxury..., or for the satisfaction of the tongue.
Prabhupāda: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has given me this wife? Why not search out another nice wife?" That means I am going to surpass the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has sent this prasādam. Oh, this is all vegetables. Why not take some animal food and liquor?" Kṛṣṇa does not send you liquor. You have manufactured. Kṛṣṇa has sent you this fruit, He has sent you the grains, Kṛṣṇa has sent you the milk. You should be satisfied. Why should you manufacture liquor? Why should you manufacture slaughterhouse? We don't eat meat. Are we dying ninety percent of Indian population, they don't eat meat. They're simply vegetarian. Yes. And you can see how they are healthy. They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guru dāsa: Is that a qualification, is that part of the age of Kali-yuga? Flowers with no scent?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Trees will have no fruits. The fruit will have no juice. That is mentioned. Just like in a mango there is a seed. In many fruits there is seed. In Kali-yuga you'll find simply the skin and seed, no pulp. And cloud without rain. These are mentioned. (laughs) What can you do? If the cloud becomes without rain, if the fruit become without pulp, if the paddy becomes without grain, then what you have to eat? You have to eat the grass, the husk, the skin, and the seed. Or kill another man and eat. Just like in Africa, still, they are doing. Cannibals. Killing the grandfather, that is a great ceremony. Do you know that?
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So the florist is given a certain tract of land free, and let him produce flower and make business. But the quantity of flower I require for my temple, he must supply daily. Similarly, the bandsman, he should come and play band. Everything was on land distribution. That was the system. And tax was paid to the government. Not by assessment. Uh, assessment... Whatever your land production is there, you give to the government one-fourth. That's all. If you have produced 1,000 mound grains, you have to give to the government 250 mounds. And if you have produced 100, then you give 25. So there is no question of harassment. Whatever is the production is there... So these profession is accepted from Vedic time, different kinds of men engaged in different kinds of activities. Maybe a florist, maybe a potter, maybe a cobbler, maybe anything, grain producer... So many, society requires so many things.
Prabhupāda: As I have told you, that Bhagavad-gītā is the book of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like any department of knowledge, there are some books to know that departmental knowledge or science, similarly, to know Kṛṣṇa consciousness there are many books and especially Bhagavad-gītā. In this Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who gives Me fruits, vegetables, grains, milk, with great devotional love, I eat." Therefore we offer these things to Kṛṣṇa in different preparations, and we know He will eat. And that's all.
Interviewer: What types of food, what types of things do you drink, such as juices or anything else do you drink?
Prabhupāda: Eatables are just within this jurisdiction of fruits, flowers, vegetables, grains, and milk. But we can prepare thousands of preparation, very nice palatable preparations. And I invite you to our temple. When love feast is distributed on every Sunday, you will see how they are nicely prepared. But they are prepared... Only if we get some grains and some butter and some fruits and some vegetables, we can prepare hundreds of preparations, hundreds, very, very palatable. You will forget all other eating.
Prabhupāda: Some grains. Any other grain.
Janārdana: There is whole wheat.
Prabhupāda: That will do.
Janārdana: Whole wheat grains and there's rice.
Prabhupāda: Rice... Better... Wheat is better.
Prabhupāda: Buckwheat? What is that?
Janārdana: Raw buckwheat. It's a grain.
Śāradīyā: (break) What is the significance of using the barley and the sesame.
Prabhupāda: Some eatables, that's all. Grains are eatables. Therefore I am substituting. They are eatable. There must be something eatable.
Devotee (1): Does eatable... Does Kṛṣṇa eat out of the fire?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): He does? He eats all that?
Prabhupāda: Everyone eats. Kṛṣṇa also... Kṛṣṇa eats through fire. Therefore yajña is offered. Kṛṣṇa eats by so many ways, but people want to see that "I give foodstuff; it must be finished."
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Cow, yes. And in Vedic literature you'll find, a man is... Richness of a man is estimated by the possession of grains and cows. Dhanyena dhanavān. If he has got sufficient quantity grain, then he's to be... Formerly, even still in India, when a daughter is offered to a family, they will go and see how many morais(?) there are. Grain stock. If he sees that he has five, six, big, big grain stock, then he can... "Oh, this is nice house." You see? "They can feed." So in India still, the arrangement is that every family has got at least two years grain in stock. You see? And cow at least one dozen. No economic problem. And actually, that is the fact. You keep cows and have sufficient grains, whole economic problem solved. Eating. And sleeping, you can take some wood and four pillars. Of course, in your country it is not...
Allen Ginsberg: It's very cold.
Prabhupāda: Curries you may boil only. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that you have to take our taste. No. That is not the program, that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious you have to change your taste. No. We say from the Bhagavad-gītā... Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion these vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, I accept that." But we are going to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are selecting foodstuff from this group. That you are all already accepting. Don't you take vegetables? Don't you take fruits? Don't you take grains? So where is the new item? Now, so far cooking, you can cook in your own taste. But the group must be this. Not meat. Because Kṛṣṇa does not say. That is our program. So you are already taking grains, you are eating fruits, you are drinking milk. So where is the difference? I don't find any difference.
Allen Ginsberg: After ten thousand years?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat-eating. (laughter) Full facility. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He'll give you facility: "All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely." Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own offsprings, tigers. So this will happen.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen cows? The whole property?
Kīrtanānanda: If you want them to be self-sufficient, you have to grow grain for them for the winter.
Prabhupāda: All right. Let eighteen people first of all. Then we shall share, eighteen people. You see?
Hayagrīva: One cow per person. We're all going to end up with the gout.
Prabhupāda: No. They don't calculate one cow, one person. They calculate only cow. And that does not mean eighteen persons will only remain.
Prabhupāda: Milk, yes. Milk products.
Kīrtanānanda: I think you could keep fifty cows on this property if you bought your grain and hay from outside.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we have to do. We cannot get everything. If we construct temple, we will require so many things. It is not possible to be self-sufficient within this land. We have to get so many things outside. That means we have to get money from outside.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So Jānakī, she can play the mother. She is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you can show another scene that His wife, Viṣṇupriyā, she was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and one round finished, she counted it with one grain of rice. One round finished, one grain rice. So as many rounds finished, she'll eat only so much rice. That's all.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Whenever there is sun, there is sunlight, immediately. Where there is light, immediately there is illumination. Just like a drop of poison. You just take a drop of poison as soon as it touches the tongue immediately it expands all over the whole body and it make the whole blood, water, dead. How it expands, a small grain of potassium cyanide? Simply a grain immediately (indistinct). If a material thing can have so much effect, immediately, the spiritual atom cannot do that? That is called science. Similarly, the biggest spiritual identity, Kṛṣṇa, He can become all-pervading. We are particle spiritual, spark. We have got limited power. (indistinct) Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam, "I become immediately expanded throughout My body." And He is unlimitedly big. So how much His consciousness is distributed all over the world? Sarva-jña. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is not abhijña. Svarāṭ. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheśv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This example is nice. A grain of potassium cyanide is sufficient. There is no taste. The chemical characteristic of potassium cyanide, they have not mentioned the taste because as soon as there is taste, finished, they cannot... (laughter) He cannot say whether it is pungent or sweet. (laughter) Finished. So there is no taste.
Prabhupāda: They are not putting their hand on the oil. It is called yajña, offering ghee to the fire. This is Vedic, this is Vedic ritual, to offer clarified butter and grains in the fire. Fire is supposed to be the mouth of God. So we are offering eatables to the Supreme Person, rūpa.
Mohsin Hassan: What is the goal of this movement for the future? Is there any program set for the future?
Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.
Revatīnandana: We can eat anything: fruit, vegetables, milk products, grains, sugar, nuts, all kinds of vegetable foodstuffs.
Guest (2): Broadly speaking, anything that comes out of the earth.
Revatīnandana: Yes. And we can eat it after it's been offered to the Lord with love and devotion. This we call prasādam or Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Prabhupāda: Actually, any foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Any foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's, God's mercy. Just like grain. You cannot manufacture grain. It is by God's mercy you get it.
Sister Mary: You use your own, responsibly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I should feel grateful. "Oh, God has given me this thing, so whatever utility is there, first of all I must offer to God." God has given me this grain to eat, so I must cook and first of all offer to God, and then I shall eat." This is feeling gratitude, grateful.
Prabhupāda: We are simply presenting the fact that everything belongs to God. God is the supreme friend and God is the maintainer of everyone, everything, and He is the supreme enjoyer. These three things, if we understand, then the whole problem is solved. Now, I say that God is the proprietor. Now you refute. Those who will not accept, that "God is not proprietor, I am proprietor," this requires discussion. How you become proprietor? Bhagavad-gītā says, God says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). I am not manufacturing this. It is stated in the śāstra. God is the supreme enjoyer. He is the proprietor. He should be enjoyer. Just like here, if I am the proprietor of a factory, so the profit should come to me, similarly, if God is the proprietor of everything then we cannot enjoy anything without the sanction of God. We therefore eat prasādam. We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. There are necessities. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. But the thing is, people are trying to keep the body in overcomfort and the result is they are becoming diseased. We require to... The body is not to be neglected. Just like our system, our Vedic system, (indistinct) nature you take grains, you take fruits, you take milk, sufficient nourishment, so why should you take animal food? It is simply taste for the tongue. You don't require. Now these boys and girls who are with me for the last four years, they have given up everything—meat eating, fish, eggs, everything.
Prabhupāda: You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So, those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk... What is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So, cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. Karnish (?), karnish it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of karnish (?)? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood which is nutritious—according to your science—but why you should kill her? So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any śāstra, any religion. Jīva hiṁsā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā. So, jiva hiṁsā, violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent, you cannot kill.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is already known to you. Bhānu knows very well. You have seen in Los Angeles. Why three plates? If you can spare more plates for each, that will be nice. Just like one for Rādhā and for Kṛṣṇa, one for Jagannātha, one for Balarāma, one for Subhadrā, one for guru, one for Gaurāṅga, Pañca-tattva, five. If you can increase, you can manage, that is nice. Otherwise one plate to guru is sufficient. If you cannot spare. If you can spare, you can increase as many plates as you can. Otherwise one plate to guru is sufficient.
Devotee: On ekādaśī, we can offer the Deity grains?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. But not guru. Ekādaśī observed by jīva-tattva, not by Viṣṇu-tattva. We are fasting for clearing our material disease, but Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu also may not be offered grains because He is playing the part of a devotee. Only Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha can be offered grains. Otherwise, Guru-Gaurāṅga, no. And the prasādam should not be taken by anyone. It should be kept for next day.
Bhānu: Should the Deities be offered grains for breakfast?
Prabhupāda: No. Grains...Grains only bhoga-ārati and at night... Purī also grain. It is also grain. And during daytime, cāpāṭī, rice, dahl, like that. Breakfast, fruits, milk, sweets, breakfast. And early, maṅgala-ārati, condensed milk. And breakfast, butter, sugar candy, casein. You are calling Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. You must offer Him nice things. Not a poor man gets like Him. He's the richest man. If a poor man can be supplied so many things, how the rich man should be offered? And as far as possible, distribute prasādam. (break) People should be called.
Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant.
Prabhupāda: Three hundred. Simply grains, fruits, and butter, that's all, and sugar. You give us these four items and we give you three hundred items. Yes. There is a ceremony in India, annakūṭa, Govardhana-pūjā. So in that ceremony, in each and every temple they prepare as many varieties as possible. Some of them prepare three thousand.
Prabhupāda: Just like all the men, they are spending two thousand rupees for maintenance. They must work. And if they go with the books to any gentleman, they'll take. Māyā-sukhāya udvahato vimūḍhān. (break) Americans are giving so much service, knowledge. Arrange everything. They are giving already; simply they should be distributed through us-powdered milk, grains. People will feel so much obliged, "Oh, these American people are giving us knowledge and food." Practically they'll see how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious—by our aratika, by our kīrtana, by our behavior, by our character. Not only in India—everywhere. This is real service to the human.
Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any vegetarian, because in the store you will get only meat. There is no vegetable, no fruit. Śyāmasundara had to spend two hours for collecting food. There is no rice, (indistinct), nothing. For vegetarians it is very, very difficult to live in Moscow.
Devotee (2): Just recently the Russians went to the United States and bought huge quantities of grains for Russia.
Prabhupāda: There are no grains.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. Channa. That is called chaval. Puffed rice means chaval. From grains we have got varieties of foods. Grains, fruits, vegetables, milk, sugar, you can make at least four hundred, five hundred varieties.
Guest (1): From rice.
Prabhupāda: No. From grains.
Guest (1): From grains.
Prabhupāda: In the Marwari community is, that is called... channa, channa. Channa and ghee, they can make varieties of preparations. Channa powder, chick pea flour, besan, besan. You know besan? Yes. From besan they make so many varieties. Besan, ghee and sugar.
Prabhupāda: Unpolished, rough quality rice. It is washed nicely, then mixed with little salt, then it is fried, then it is... They know the temper, fried, then they get it out. In Bengal they make. My mother used to do it. Then on sand bath, hot sand you put this prepared hot rice and puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, it becomes puffed. And then you take it out. And then mesh it, to get out of the sand. Then you cook it. It is cooked in sand bath, hot sand. All this bujiya, bujiya, grains. In India there is professional maker. You... They have got hot sand always ready. You take some grains, and then you put in the hot sand and put, put, put, put, put, put, then they mesh it, return it (indistinct).
Even in Punjab, I think. I think you have seen also, they take the dough for professional bread maker. The householder they make the dough and took to a shopkeeper, and they make the bread. You haven't got to take the chaval, and make the bread.
Prabhupāda: But why don't you create from sand? Flying like that. You are so advanced. Take some grains of sand and create another fly. They cannot create even an ant, and still they say that life is coming out from matter. And in future we shall create. In future, what is your credit? It is already there. If your science is perfect, that life is coming out of matter, now prove it by laboratory experiment. Take some sand and create some life.
Prabhupāda: Water, they're also composition of atomic grains?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The hydrogen and oxygen, they're called compound. Compound of hydrogen and oxygen.
Prabhupāda: So hydrogen and oxygen, they have got grains, molecular.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is called molecules, molecule of water.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's not possible.
Prabhupāda: No, no. But see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is working. You cannot create even a few grains of sand, and you are claiming that: "We have become more than God." How foolishness it is.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will take the, the matter from Kṛṣṇa, and they will manipulate, and they will claim that they have done it. For example, they can make some, some sands...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least if you accept that "I have taken this matter from Kṛṣṇa." That is also good. Just like we take. We take Kṛṣṇa, from Kṛṣṇa is coming everything. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That means there will be no food, natural food. That is stated in Bhāgavata. You don't, you'll not get these grains, sugar, milk. This will be stopped. You have to eat woods. Yes. By your advancement of civilization, you have to eat woods.
Brahmānanda: Like a termite.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Go home. (Apparently aside) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: At the moment, scientists are doing so many things. They're having so many hopes. So in about fifty years...
Prabhupāda: There will be so much advancement that there will be no grains, no milk.
Paramahaṁsa: And one can worship Him within the stone or within everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We worship everything. We worship everything, see Kṛṣṇa everywhere. We don't see the tree. We see Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the tree's also worshipable because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy both are worshipable. Therefore we say Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare means Kṛṣṇa's energy. We worship everything. In our childhood we are taught by our parents, if there is small grain and if it is strut (?) on the feet, we shall pick it up and touch on the forehead. We are taught like this, how to see everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We cannot therefore see anything wasted, anything misused. Why you are preaching? Why we are after so many rascals? That his life is being misused. Let us give him some enlightenment. This is our mission. Or let him go to hell. Just like Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they're engaged in meditation or in the Himalayas, but we have come to Los Angeles. Why? This is our mission. Oh, these things, these people are being misused under māyā, let him gain some enlightenment. This is our mission. We are teaching that, how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. How to understand Kṛṣṇa in everything. That is our mission. See Kṛṣṇa in everything. Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra. Everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you read? Sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati, yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra, "Anyone who sees Me everywhere and sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati... and everything in Me, he's perfect."
Prabhupāda: Sense, that is... Any rascal can sense that here is living energy. That is spirit soul. Just like if you inject one grain of poison and immediately he dies, does it require how he dies? That one, not one grain. Even one hundredth part of one grain, venomous poison, how it acts? So even nobody can see it, when the snake bites, nobody can see where is that... How he dies?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will explain that by..., it blocks some of the metabolic paths...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but it is acting. That is my point. You can explain in your nonsense way, this, so many things. But I see that because that very little portion of poison is there, immediately he dies. Why don't you see the action?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like taking cyanide. Cyanide, they say cyanide blocks the...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but the thing, we have to see by the effect. Similarly, if the small particle of... Therefore our knowledge is perfect. We take it from Vedas. The small particle of soul, because it is present there, you will see the whole thing is going on nicely.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?
Umāpati: Uncontrollable tongue.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now what is that bird who is killed in Christmas?
Devotees: Turkey.
Prabhupāda: Turkey, you see. Now, Christmas, God's Christmas, Jesus Christ. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." But his birthday is observed by killing, killing, killing, killing, killing.
David Wynne: That's true.
Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. Cannot do anything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is guiding everyone, even an ant. Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Mr. Ant, there is a grain of sugar, you can go there." Immediately goes. Otherwise, how he gets the information? For him, one hundred miles away, a grain of sugar, and he goes there. He did not inform. Who informs him? Who informed him?
David Wynne: You feel this very much when one's trying to make sculpture, because it is impossible for a man; one can't do it...
Prabhupāda: No.
David Wynne: ...one has to wait and be passive...
Prabhupāda: If Kṛṣṇa withdraws the intelligence, you cannot work. So Kṛṣṇa is guiding already, but He's guiding at the present moment according to your whims. "You wanted to do this? All right." Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence: "Do it." But when he'll agree to act according to the whims of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection.
Guest (8): And I must say they are advancing more than me, really. I am still the same stage; by Prabhupāda's grace, they are advancing more, get up early in the morning, four o'clock, take bath...
Prabhupāda: No, this kind of family life is very suitable. This is wanted. All the wife... His wife is very nice girl. And she is good devotee. So if wife is favorable, then everything is favorable. Household life means cooperation with wife. Na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhur gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. Just like we are also living within a room, gṛha. But we are sannyāsī. What is the difference between gṛhastha and sannyāsī? He lives with his wife. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ity āhuḥ. Gṛhiṇī means "the wife is gṛha." So if the wife is favorable, devotee, then there is no use of giving up family life. That's all. We have got so many married couples. Just like this boy. He's married. His wife is there. They are favorable. Both husband and wife, they have dedicated life for Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice. It is not that he has to become sannyāsī. No. Why? There is no necessity. Gṛhe vā vanete thāko. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha, the life must be dedicated for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is required. And for Kṛṣṇa's sake, if we have to give up something, is that very difficult job? If Kṛṣṇa wants that "You give up this habit,"... Just like Kṛṣṇa says... If you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Now, Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So Kṛṣṇa wants that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, "Vegetable, milk, rice, grains, you can give Me." So you have to please Kṛṣṇa. You live on this, what Kṛṣṇa says, and take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That's all.
Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating.
Prabhupāda: You just work little, produce your food, eat, and save time, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. This is the nature's arrangement. Anywhere, any part of the world, you can produce your food. Simply you require a little land and some cows. Everything is complete. You take milk from the cows and just till the field and get some food grains. That is sufficient. Whole economic question solved. And save time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the arrangement.
Prabhupāda: Just like so much field is there. You, if you take the all village people, you can produce enough food for them in this village. So much land is lying there. Simply you keep cows and till ground, get your food grains. Enough. And if you take the whole planet as it is, you can feed ten times population. There is so much prospect. Australia, Africa. So much vacant land. You can produce enough quantity of milk and food grains.
Prabhupāda: How they are wasting! You see? And they're putting the overstocked grain into the sea. America.
David Lawrence: Dumping tomatoes, bananas, all these things.
Prabhupāda: What kind of civilization? And producing Nixon on the head. (laughter.) Just see.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they want to be happy. This is their position.
David Lawrence: They'll give...
Prabhupāda: The head of the administration is Nixon, and the activities is killing and throwing the grains in the sea. And they are civilized. Just see. Where is civilization? They have no common sense even.
Prabhupāda: They can understand that. So during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows were happy, and because they were happy, they were producing so much milk that when they were on the pasturing ground, the pasturing ground became moist with milk. Milk was dropping. So much milk supply. And kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ: (SB 1.10.4) There was regular rainfall and ample production of food grains, other things also. Just like jewelry, they are also produced by the rainfall and certain constellation of the stars. That we understand from the astrological books.
Prabhupāda: And the anna, these grains, they are produced from parjanyaḥ, from clouds. Now? Next?
Pradyumna: Yajñād bhavati parjanyo...
Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.
Prabhupāda: There must be ample production of food grains and milk product. Then the whole economic problem solved. And the formula is there. How to get ample agricultural production and milk, everything is there in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the examples of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, that is also there. But one... We must be serious to accept this formula for practical application.
Prabhupāda: This will be done in Kali-yuga. And gradually, there will be no supply of grains. Especially rice, wheat, sugar, milk, these things will be finished. So people will be obliged to take flesh. These are all stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Śyāmasundara: In that case, is there any hope in a movement like ours to rectify the situation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they take to Kṛṣṇa co... That is also stated, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Kīrtanād, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can become free from all these calamities and go back to home, back to Godhead. Only Kṛṣṇa conscious people will be free from all these calamities. Others will have to suffer.
Prabhupāda: This is government's duty. To see, "Why you are claiming vaiśya? If your industry is to produce food grains, agriculture, give protection to the cows..." So in India ten thousand cows are being killed, and the vaiśyas are big, big (indistinct), big, big zamindars. You see.
Reporter: Sitting quiet. (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly brāhmaṇas. Nehru. He is brāhmaṇa, but what did he do as a brāhmaṇa? But he was the head of the government. Who will speak against him? Everything is topsy turvy.
Prabhupāda: The villagers, they have cows and land. That is sufficient for their economic problem. But the industrialists, they are alluring them, "To get more money, come here." So they are going to the cities. And the food production in the village is neglected. And therefore the food grain price is rising. Actually, everyone should be engaged to produce food, but the modern set-up of civilization is that few people are engaged in producing food, and others are eating. They are offering... They are artificially getting money. So they are offering paper, "Here is ten dollars." Although it is a paper, cheating. And they are captivated by cheating. They, they are thinking, "I have got now hundred dollars." What is this hundred dollars? It is paper. So some people are cheating and some people are being cheated. This is the society.
Prabhupāda: You need it... Just like if you can get nice fruits, grains, milk, why do you need animal? You have to eat. You have to eat and live. Not to kill. Similarly, that if you can get nice foodstuff from food grains, from fruits, from flowers, from vegetables, from milk, why you should kill the animals?
Mother: Well, a lot of people now are going over to health foods.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Mother: This is thought of by a lot of people.
Prabhupāda: Well, lot of people may do anything.
Mother: Well, it's not... I always think it's not for me to condemn people, whatever they do. All I ask for in life is... I'm not condemning you, but uh...
Prabhupāda: No, we are thinking in that way. It is all right that we have to eat some living entity, but a difference... If we can get... Besides that, when you get the grains, it is not actually killing. When you get the fruits, I am getting these fruits from the tree. It is not killing. The fruits are there. I take it. It falls down. I take it. The grains also. It is not killing.
Mother: Well, I think... No, well, I don't think we're really worried about whether we kill or you...
Prabhupāda: So similarly, if I take milk from the cows, that is also cow's blood, but I don't kill it. So if I can live in such nice way, without killing, I get the fruits and flowers and the milk and the grains, why should I kill the animals?
Mother: There're a tremendous number of people being vegetarians today.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Man can eat grains, food grains, fruits, milk, sugar, wheat...
Cardinal Danielou: Not, not, (French)?
Yogeśvara: No flesh?
Cardinal Danielou: No flesh?
Prabhupāda: No. Why? Just like the fruits. The fruits are meant for human being. The tiger does not come to eat your fruits. So tiger's food is another animal. Man's food is fruit, food grains, milk products. Just like fruit...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes. I understand. It is why because grain and plants are also living beings.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, that's all right.
Prabhupāda: That, that we also understand. But if, if you cannot live... Just like, generally, if I can live on fruits and grains and milk, why should I kill another animal?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes...
Prabhupāda: Another thing is that how can you support that animal killing is not sin?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: (French)
Bhagavān: How do you justify it?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, because we, we thought that there is a difference of nature between life of man, life of spirit, and biological, biological life. And we say... (break) ...not really exists, and we think so. We think that animals, plant are not real beings, are world of appearance and that you human person only is real being. And that in this sense, the material world is without importance.
Prabhupāda: Now..., I follow. Suppose you are living in this house. So you are not this house, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.
Prabhupāda: That is another wrong impression. Foolish impression. The whole world has got sufficient place to produce food for ten times the population as it is now. The Americans, they throw grains in the water. So if they send the excess grain to the place where grain is not sufficient, then it is God conscious-ness. If the so-called overpopulation is spread all over the world, there is sufficient place in Africa, Australia, America. The overpopulation can grow their food in these vast uncultivated land.
Prabhupāda: You say. They say, all rascals say. But actually this is independence, but because they're animals, they are directed by nature, more or less. Just like they do not... My point is they do not misuse independence as much as a human being does. You see. Just like a tiger. He is to eat animals, killing animals. He does not come to your orchard to steal your fruits. But you, rascal human being, you eat fruits and animals both. Animal, that is instinct. Animal... Suppose if you put—I've given this example many times—a bag of rice on the street. Many birds will come. But he will eat some grains, five grains, ten grains and twenty grains, as much he can eat, and go away. But you do the same favor to the human beings, there will be fight. Everyone will try to take some more quantity in the house and stock it. Therefore, the human being is more responsible for sinful activities.
Śrutakīrti: Goloka Vṛndāvana, are there still varieties he said.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ānanda, ānanda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa and kara-pīḍita. One side, there will be no rain, and there will be scarcity of food grain, and government will tax heavily. In this way, people will become mad and they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. This is the foretelling also. This is going to happen. Actually, people are being perplexed in that way. There is scarcity of food, and there is scarcity of rain, and government tax is increasing every year.
Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Māyā... Just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased, so similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature. You cannot produce food. You can produce bolts and nuts in the factory, but you cannot eat bolts and nuts. You have to eat rice and grains. So that restriction if there is... (Hindi) The solution is to, back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.
Prabhupāda: Count the sand grains, count the sand grains.
Karandhara: They would make a rough estimate.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even if you make a fool estimate, then still, you are nothing in the face of the creator. Even if you can count.
Yaśomatīnandana: They are so stupid Prabhupāda that they do not recognize that the most important things in life is birth, death, old age and disease. And if they really want to conquer the nature, they should try to conquer birth, death, old age and disease.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).
Yaśomatīnandana: Duratyayā, very hard to overcome.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Devotee (2): Consciousness is also energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Energy of the soul. As soon as the soul is passed from the body, there is no more consciousness. It is very easy to understand. They cannot explain why the consciousness stops. They cannot explain. But that is the symptom. Yena sarvam idam, avināśi tu tad viddhi..., yena sarvam idam, in the Bhagavad-gītā. That thing which is spreading the energy all over the body, that is eternal. Now, what is that thing which is spreading the consciousness? It is the soul. So long the soul is there, you have got consciousness, otherwise there is no consciousness. Very plain word. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. Just try to understand that thing which is spreading consciousness all over the body. Just like a small grain of poison. As soon as you take it, immediately it will spread all over the blood. Even a small grain.
Devotee (2): So the grain is carried by the blood. What is the spiritual spark carried by?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity.
Prabhupāda: That ignorance is there, but the hook... Not only out of ignorance, out of greediness. That if you become more greedy, he knows that there is sufficient food in the sea, but the rascal is greedy, he's taking another... Due to his rascaldom, he's dying. Greediness. So similarly, all arrangement is there, God-made. Even for human beings. But because they're rascals, they're greedy. They're greedy. Although their greediness cannot satisfy them, everyone is greedy because the law of nature is equal to everyone. If law of nature can supply food to the birds and beast and everyone, why not to the human beings? What human being has done? But they're rascal, greedy, therefore suffering. More, wants more. There is already food grains, milk, flowers, fruits, immense supply, but he'll cut the throat of another animal. Greedy. And they're suffering, committing sinful activities.
Hṛdayānanda: Then they will argue that we are, we are killing plants and grains, things like that.
Prabhupāda: We are not killing anything. We are not killing anything. We devotees, we don't kill anything. Do you know that, or not? We don't kill anything.
Hṛdayānanda: They'll say we eat vegetables, they will say.
Prabhupāda: No vegetables, we don't kill. We don't kill.
Umāpati: Well, vegetables are living entities also?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but we don't kill them. We take their fruits and flowers. That does not mean it is killed. And that also we take it for Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). So if there is any responsibility, that is Kṛṣṇa's responsibility. I am not, I am not responsible.
Hṛdayānanda: Ah, I see.
Karandhara: Fruits, vegetables and grains can be harvested without killing the plant.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, yes, it is not killing. Grains, after grains are ripe, the tree automatically dies.
Prof. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, isn't it so that we do not kill voluntarily. Because involuntarily, of course, we kill with every moment? We kill all the bacteria and we kill all the microbes and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: The money is to be kept in cattle and grains. That is Indian economy, cattle and grains. If you have got many cows, you get milk. Milk preparation. And if you have got grain, then where is your problem? You prepare your foodstuff at home and eat and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is your problem? You want to eat and live peacefully. So if you have got grains and milk, you have got enough food and there is no problem. You haven't got to go fifty miles for your work, and then you require a tin car. So many problems. But if you get your food at home, then eat them and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. Simple thing.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is called cakra. What is that? In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-cakra, brahma-cakra. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is realization, that in every action there is brahman. The beginning, by eating food grains, you become strong. The animals become strong. Then, when you become strong, you perform yajña, and from yajña, there is cloud, and from cloud, there is rain, and from rain, there is food grains. This is the cakra.
Prabhupāda: ...immediately appreciates Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is being done as if automatically, but no, there is brain. That brain, these rascals, they cannot find out. Machine, nature only. What is this nature? Nonsense. So which way we shall go? This way? Up to the river?
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Each and every grain...
Jayapatākā: Here's our mango tree.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Viṣṇujana: Mango.
Prabhupāda: Mango tree?
Bhavānanda: Yes, we planted, uh... (end)
Bhagavān: Fifteen hundred.
Prabhupāda: No. According to our present calculated, about 180 mounds. So there should be 120 mounds excess of grain. Instead of excess, they want ten thousand rupees for maintenance. This is... This management is going on. These things were not discussed in GBC? So what kind of discussion was there? Simply talking? No practical? And the estimate of budget was presented for ten thousand rupees per month. And... And when it was scrutinizingly studied, immediately it came down to six thousand. So what kind of budget? So management should be in that way, that nobody is sitting idly. Automatically he'll fall sick. Sickness means idleness. Or excess eating, sleeping. No excess, no less. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. Yukta. Yukta means actually what you need. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So everywhere, in each center, this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of the varṇāśrama. At the same time, this program of devotional service. Then it will go on very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Business means if you have got extra grains or extra foodstuff, you can sell where there is necessity, there is want. That is business. We are not going to open mills and factories and... No. We are not going to do that. That is śūdra business. The real business is that you produce enough food grains, as much as possible, and you eat and distribute. That's all. This is business. He does not require any so high technical education. Anyone can till the ground and grow food. Is it difficult? This is the business. The first thing is that everyone, man and animal, especially the cows, they must be properly fed so become very stout and strong. Cows will supply milk, and man will work hard, without being suffered by dysentery. He must work hard. Any capacity. Work as a teacher or work as a kṣatriya, work as a ploughman. Or work as general assistant. He must work. Everyone should be employed. And his employment will be provided from any of these groups, according to his capacity. Either as a brāhmaṇa, or as a kṣatriya, or as a vaiśya, or as a śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, generally in colleges in the West, they charge some fee for going to the college. What is our position?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't charge any fee. There is no question of money. Because the brāhmaṇas, they'll teach free. They require money because they have to give fat salary to these rascals. But we haven't got to. And even we have to feed them, we produce our own grain. So where is the question of taking money? So therefore it is required, somebody must produce food. Then there is no necessity of money.
Prabhupāda: There are many parties in Bombay, kīrtana parties. You have to organize them and bring them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Create this nuisance. And Maharashtra is the country of Tukārāma. He organized kīrtana. Still the Tukārāma kīrtana parties are there. Viṭṭhala. Viṭṭhala means Kṛṣṇa. And ideal gosvāmī should remain here to challenge these false gosvāmīs. But if you also become false, then you cannot challenge. (break) ...have come, we can talk with them. Mr. Gupta, your pathaks (?), they have come. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jayo. (Hindi) (break) ...have sufficient quantity of grains, then you are dhanavān. This is all false, so-called dhanavān. (Hindi) Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). If you want to flourish, you must have sufficient grains. Where is that grain? Some... (Hindi) Lecture. What is that lecture? Where is anna? (break) (Hindi) This is going on. (Prabhupāda describes in Hindi how Bhāgavatam describes the present government leaders as dogs, hogs, camels and asses; and other topics) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). This is the only... (Hindi) Our movement is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Everyone knows.
Dr. Patel: Mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rascal, he thinks that because "I can make like this, little gold, therefore I have become God." The rascal does not think that "I am making, say, two grains or five grains of gold, but one who has made gold mines, millions, so he will be God or I will be God?" The rascal does not think that. And other rascals follow, "Oh, here is God. Here is God. He is creating gold." You see? Therefore mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.
Śrīdhara: "He not only gave cows in charity, but hills of grain, decorated with golden bordered garments and many ornaments."
Prabhupāda: Anna-vastra, anna-vastra-dhana. Charity means to give in charity anna and vastra and cows. (break) ...give in charity some paper, one hundred rupees. (laughs) Another cheating. And he is also satisfied, "One hundred rupees." What is this one hundred? It is a paper, a piece of paper. (break) ...earned, black market, white market. Because when one does business, he has to do it, but it should be purified. I have seen the Marwaris, they do that. Although when earning money, they don't care, they do anything, but they give in charity. (break) ...purify the body by taking bath, similarly, the wealth is purified by the charity process, giving it to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He accumulated much wealth. He brought in a big boat, all gold coins.
Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home. When there is the vermillion, that means she is married. When the, what is called, division? Siti. Siti is in this side, then she is prostitute. The dress, when the woman dresses with white dress, they are widow, no husband.
Indian man (1): You spread it like...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) We also say that "You take advantage of this, and also produce sufficient food grains so that people may not starve." Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Unless there is sufficient grain... People are giving more stress how to produce machine, but they are not giving any stress how to produce foodstuff. So many land are lying vacant. You go in India. So many lands. Not only in India. In other countries also. In England also we have seen. They are not taking care. Because it is very troublesome to put... "Better start a factory and get money easily."
Indian man (1): They are now thinking about it. "Green revolution."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) So much land is lying vacant. They could utilize for food grains. No. They do not do it. (break) ...they have been withdrawn from the villages to work in the city, in the factories, and the lands are lying vacant. (break) Mahimā siddhi, to become heavier. Animā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, siddhi. There are eight kinds of yoga-siddhis. So those who are yoga siddha... Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. He became so heavy. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (break) ...aeroplane, it comes gradually, there is no crashing, but if it drops all of a sudden, then it is crashed. So this Tṛṇāvartāsura could not do that. He felt so heavy, fell down.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) From our childhood, if there was a rice grain on the floor, my father, er, my mother would ask me, "Take it and touch it on your head."
Dr. Patel: We were advised not to tread on the grains. (break)
Prabhupāda: Because by chance, if the grain is struck with the leg, she asked, "Take it and you touch it on the head."
Dr. Patel: That is the culture. That is real culture.
Prabhupāda: Means from the very beginning he understands anna-brahma.
Dr. Patel: Even it is not spoken, you practice it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, practice it. According to Vedic culture, the higher class, in every home there is nārāyaṇa-śilā for worship, especially of the brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Well, first of all try to understand what is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Then you try to understand the philosophy. It is simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti parjanyāt. So there is no need of dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy. You require anna to maintain the animals and living men. Practically. Dvaita philosophy and advaita philosophy, this is controversial. But even though we agree to dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy, the question of food grain will be required, either you become dvaita philosophy or advaita philosophy.
Prabhupāda: These things are going on. That means they are attracted. Attracted. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad. They'll dress. Woman will dress very nicely so that she can attract man, and man will also do something which will, he'll attract woman. Mithunī-bhāvam tayor mitha... In this way, when they are united-hṛdāya-granthim āhuḥ, a very strong knot: "Oh, you are mine. I am yours." (laughter) "You are mine. I am yours." In this way they pull on this material life. And then, gradually, "Now we must have good apartment to live and enjoy sex life." Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad tayor mithaḥ hṛdāya-granthim āhuḥ, tathā gṛha. "Now have skyscraper building." Kṣetra: "Land. We must produce food grains." Tathā gṛha-kṣetra-suta: "We must have children."
Dr. Patel: There is no question of... He cannot make even a grain of sand. Scientists, if they say that they are making, that is wrong. They are finding out what is already admitted.
Prabhupāda: No. Some of them say, "Now there is no need of God. Science is everything." Even Dr. Radhakrishnan was saying in a meeting.
Dr. Patel: No, what is science?
Prabhupāda: Science means...
Dr. Patel: Science means knowledge. And knowledge is there. Knowledge means God.
Prabhupāda: Practical...
Dr. Patel: But we are trying to honor the knowledge which we have not now known...
Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands, "Oh, here is the original source of everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19), that is greatest scientist. And how this knowledge comes? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). They are struggling for the ultimate knowledge. So struggling many, many births after births, when, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he comes to the real knowledge, then he admits, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground?
Gurudāsa: Presently I think gośala is more practical.
Prabhupāda: There is another gośala, they are not utilizing, Panchar(?) Gośala. Why don't you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall... "Give us it, we shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa."
Gurudāsa: We can try.
Prabhupāda: Find out who is Panchar(?). "If we do not use for gośala, then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for gośala. So why don't you give us the land?" Attached to the temple, we maintain a gośala.
Prabhupāda: What they will debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there cannot be any difference of opinion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So what is your debate on this point, that living entities, they flourish by food grains? So what is your debate on this point?
Yogeśvara: Well, they may agree that the teachings are good, but they can't accept it as proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.
Prabhupāda: Well, then you have to give me definition of God. What is God? If you know God, then you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is not God." Otherwise, how you can say He is not God? I give you a piece of gold: If you say, "It is not gold," then you show me what is gold. Otherwise, you are talking nonsense. If you do not know the things as it is, how you can say, "It is not this"? If you know the positive, then you can say the negative.
Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest.
Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. In the Vedic civilization even an enemy comes to your home, he should be offered respect. Take more. Now, these foodstuffs are meant for human being. They are not meant for cats and dogs. You should produce more of this foodstuff. And the remaining balance, the skin, you can offer to the animal. They will eat. You take the substance, and the outward, external skin you offer to the animals, and he will eat. She gives you milk. This is cooperation. You produce... Man can produce fruits and flowers, grains, take the substance, and the rejected portion give to the animal. She gives you milk. You require milk. This is cooperation.
Devotee: By the grace of pure devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...encouraging in our society to take to agriculture to support this center. I am purchasing land in Vṛndāvana and Māyāpur to become self-sufficient. Whatever production you make, you be satisfied. Little vegetable, little grain and little milk. That is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Because I did not earn this money, I have printed. I am prepared to twenty rupees. So he says, "Why shall I pay ten rupees? I must wait for the customer, for twenty rupees, and hoard it." Even there is sufficient stock, he will not sell. Therefore the other man, who is honest, he is suffering. This is going on. So to stop this inflation, the government must stop this paper currency. Then the inflation... There will be no more inflation. But that they will not do. They want to cheat people. "In God I trust. Take this paper and you be satisfied that you have got thousand dollars." That's all. This cheating is going on. Why should you pay me paper? Give me real dollar, in gold. That they have none. They haven't got. That's all. They will employ laborers and cheat them by paying these papers, and this rascal will think that "I am getting more money." That's all. Since this world has taken this paper currency, the situation has degraded. Formerly there was barter exchange. That was very good thing. Still in Indian villages, the remote villages, there is barter. Yes. He has produced some grains, paddy. He will bring to the storekeeper. And the storekeeper will take, "For so much oil, you have to give me so much paddy." So he will weigh and keep it and give him oil. So he will arrange to sell the paddy. But for the villagers, he brings the paddy and he takes. They require little salt, little oil, some spices. That's all. Otherwise they have got their own thing. They have got dahl, their rice, wheat, everything. They have produced. In this way, still there are, Indian villages. There is no question of scarcity.
Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: After the war they will come to sense. The Communist problem... Communist is not a problem. It is good proposal, but they are missing one point. They are making Lenin the leader. If they make Kṛṣṇa the leader, then the Communistic idea will be very fruitful. They are picking up a rascal leader, but if they pick up the nice leader, God the supreme dictator, then every-thing is all right. They are catching up a dictator, but they do not know that he is rascal number one. But if he catches the Supreme Lord as dictator, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), then he will be happy, immediately. Keep amongst yourself and produce. Produce food grain, produce cotton, mustard seed. Self dependent, no use... And we don't require motorcar. Bullock cart is sufficient. There is no need of going anywhere.
Bhagavān: So in our community, when we grow things, or we have need of someone's services, how are these services distributed equally? Let's say we grow cauliflower, we grow peas, we grow wheat. Is it that each family must be responsible and take only what he needs? How is it distributed?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These varieties... Suppose you grow half a dozen different types of vegetables. So from this half a dozen you can make three dozen varieties. If you are a good cooker. So the varieties of enjoyment will be fulfilled. We have got some desire of different quality of varieties. That you can make. From milk, vegetable, grains, the three things, you can make three hundred varieties.
Bhagavān: But my question is, if the community produces... Some class of men produce vegetables and grains, some class produce cows, some class produce clothes, some class produce necessities for building. How are these things distributed equally?
Prabhupāda: Because we are community, we shall distribute whatever necessity for everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the..., that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that "If you do this, then you can be interested." But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar... The same things Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parit... mām ekam. Kṛṣṇa is demanding that you do it, "Surrender unto Me." The śāstra also says, "Surrender unto the representative of Kṛṣṇa," mahīyasām. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. That is the only attachment for this material world, viṣaya. Whole world is fighting for this viṣaya. "I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons." This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that "In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way." This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication. You know that? As soon as there is information, "On the top of the skyscraper building, there is a grain of sugar," they will go. (laughing) Because sugar contains intoxication. The wine is made from sugar, molasses. It has got the intoxication. You keep a grain of sugar there, and there will be hundreds and thousands... (laughter) Gold rush. Study. You see what is the difference of this civilization and the ant civilization, dog civilization, cat civilization. No difference. It is in the simply formation only.
they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.
C. Hennis: Well the third-class would be what kind of typical worker?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Third-class men means making provision for the society for eating. That is... It is stated, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi means agriculture, and go-rakṣya means cow protection, and vāṇijyam means trade. That means the third-class men, they would give protection to the cows, produce enough food grains, and if there is excess, then it can be traded. So this is the business of the third-class men.
Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.
Prabhupāda: But enjoy does not mean that you enjoy sinfully. Did God give that document, that "You enjoy as you like, sinfully." Enjoy. There is prescription. You enjoy to the prescription. God says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). You simply enjoy what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon other's property. This is God's injunction. You enjoy. As human being, you enjoy life. You have got food grains, fruits, flowers, milk. Enjoy life. Offer to Kṛṣṇa. Enjoy life. Why should you kill animal? That is God's... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. He says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Why do you go to kill animals? That is not enjoyment. That means you suffer, therefore you are suffering. You are creating suffering. So this man is at least informed that they have no brain.
Prabhupāda: Where you get for transportation if there is no grain? If you say there is no hope of producing food grain, then where is the chance of transportation?
Yogeśvara: Well, in some areas there is.
Prabhupāda: In somewhere. If somewhere it is produced, then other place also it can be produced. You perform yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. You will get enough food. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, annād bhavanti bhutānī (BG 3.14). So in Switzerland there are many slaughterhouses also? Many?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Some time ago I read in the papers that they had so much milk and so much butter that the government proposal was kill the cows.
Prabhupāda: Kill all the animals. Oh, just see. They will not give to others.
Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.
Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...
Prabhupāda: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?
Bhagavān: 200,000,000.
Prabhupāda: And India?
Bhagavān: About 600,000,000.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And the land is four times more than India, at least. Therefore you find excess. You see? Otherwise, India is also producing. No, India is not producing. It is not utilizing all the land.
Guru-gaurāṅga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Just cooperate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us become obedient to Kṛṣṇa, and because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, let us enjoy the property of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."
Guru-gaurāṅga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gītā any word, "nationalism?" No such thing. This is the original ideas of the tribes. In the jungle there is... Just like in Africa there are still groups of tribes. This is most crude idea of civilization, nationalism. This is tribalized. It is nothing but development of just tribalism. And eating also the same. They are not advanced in civilization. This nationalism is another form of tribalism, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and the grains are put within it and they are all smashed. But one grain who takes shelter of the center, the pivot, it is not smashed. Similarly the modern civilization is such that everyone will be smashed. And one takes the central point shelter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will not be. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So best thing is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and save yourself. Save means... This is saving, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma... Kṛṣṇa appears, disappears. Kṛṣṇa works here also, in the battlefield or in other field. Kṛṣṇa has a whole activity. You study Kṛṣṇa Book, beginning from the birth up to the point of His leaving this world. Full of activities. Not that because He is God, He is sitting one place. No. Full of activities in all different spheres of life. Art, philosophy, politics, sociology, military arts—everything complete. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...
Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life. What right I have got to kill them?
Prabhupāda: So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't directly do anything. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me this foodstuff containing of vegetables, fruits, flowers, grains." So we offer them and then you take. If there is any sinful activity there, it is Kṛṣṇa's, not mine.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Frenchman: (French)
Prabhupāda: (aside) Why don't you open this?
Yogeśvara: He says, "That may be so, but in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa orders Arjuna that 'You must kill.' "
Prabhupāda: You must kill always.
Prabhupāda: Sacrifice means to satisfy God. So you satisfy God. By God's mercy there will be sufficient rain. And when there is sufficient rain you produce sufficient food, food grains, and both the animals and men eat and live in God consciousness. Read the purport.
Yogeśvara: (reads purport in French)
Prabhupāda: So far I have studied... I am traveling all over the world. It is my calculation that we can produce food to give food ten times of the population if we properly utilize the whole planet according to this-produce food. Why because the milk is produced more, the cows should be slaughtered when there is a need of milk? It is so nice foodstuff. So on account of this false nationalism, "This is my land, this is my land, this is my land..." And why not take it as God's land and produce enough foodstuff. There will be no scarcity. There will be no skeleton. And distribute it. Where is that consciousness? There is so much land uncultivated all over the world, especially in America, in Australia, and in Africa, so much, huge land, no cultivation. They are keeping some cows and slaughtering them and exporting.
Nitāi: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So use this. This is one of the business. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We don't stop trade. We don't stop food, producing food grains. But we want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. Therefore in Europe, so many wars. Every ten years, fifteen years, there is a big war and wholesale slaughter of the whole human kind. And these rascals, they do not see it. The reaction must be there. You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed. Amongst yourselves. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And here, you'll create slaughterhouse, "Dum! dum!" and killed, be killed. You know. You showed me?
Bhagavān: Yeah, French guillotine.
Jyotirmayī: It's when I asked him. I asked him: "So what are you going to do? Can you make a law against cow-killing?" So he said, "Oh... But there is this actress." Just give it, gave it to someone else to do.
Prabhupāda: No, we have to make this propaganda because we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa orders, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So we must take to agricultural work to produce food and give protection to the cows. And if there is excess product, we trade. This simple thing we must do. Therefore I'm anxious to take outside Paris this center. Our people should live there peacefully, produce food grains, give protection to the cows, and work hard. And if there is excess product, you can make money also. With ghee, you can start so many restaurants. That I have already... I have discussed on this point. We can make good money. We'll not be loser. Kṛṣṇa conscious men, they'll be never loser by following the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. They'll live comfortably without any material want, and tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), and after leaving this body, go to, directly to God.
Prabhupāda: They have learned this preparation, these girls. We have taught them. We are strictly vegetarian. From grains, from milk and sugar, and just two three, things, we require, and we can prepare thousands of preparations out of that. From milk and grains and sugar... And? What else?
Pṛthu-putra: Fruit, vegetables.
Bhagavān: Fruits.
Prabhupāda: Fruits, vegetable, we can prepare thousands of preparations, very palatable. Some of them you can taste. Yes, take. Whatever you like, take.
Professor Durckheim: They are educated too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.
Prabhupāda: My idea is that all our centers should be self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback. You produce your food locally and then support yourself. The main problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't do.
Prabhupāda: The animals, they are living in their own atmosphere, and these people, they come to kill them. Killing business has become very prominent at the present moment, and therefore they are being killed in the womb of the mother, abortion and killing child. That they do not know. Nature will not excuse you. You are killing; you'll be killed within your mothers' womb. You'll never see the light of the sun. You go on being killed, one after another, as many animals you have killed. They do not know. And time will come in this age when there will be no food and man will kill man and eat. That time is coming. Yes. They are now killing animal, but animal lives on this grass and grains. When there will be no grass, no grains, where they will get animal? They'll kill their own son and eat. That time is coming. Nature's law is that you grow your own food. But they are not interested in growing food. They are interested in manufacturing bolts and nuts.
Prabhupāda: Factory, big, big factory. So they will have to eat bolts and nuts. Where they will get food grains? They thought that "Let us eat the animal and manufacture bolts and nuts." Then when the animal will be finished, then what they will eat?
Satsvarūpa: The scientists are making artificial food; so they're not that worried.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is... That I say bolts and nuts. That artificial food means bolts and nuts. Somebody told me that they have manufactured artificial butter and by eating they were vomiting. They're vomiting. There is ample butter supply. Why these rascals are interested in manufacturing artificial butter to show their scientific brain? Just see how they are rascals. They can get, huh? Just like Kṛṣṇa was stealing His mother's butter and throwing it to the monkeys. Butter can be produced in that way, that everyone can eat sumptuously. No. "Kill the animals and artificial butter you eat and vomit." That's all. Just see their intelligence. And they are proud of their advanced civilization. The same example, that a man barking as a dog, people will go to see it by purchasing ticket.
Prabhupāda: Sacrifice, there are different description of sacrifice. Just like one of the sacrifice is this chanting of the holy name of God. Yes. There are other sacrifices, offering in the fire, butter, grains. That is also sacrifice. But in this age, these things are almost not available. Therefore chant the holy name. This sacrifice is recommended. It does not cost anything. Simply God has given you the tongue, and you chant. Any poor man can do it. (pause) (break) ...excursion? No? (Chants japa softly) Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.
Prabhupāda: I say it is very nice, immediately. Because he was embracing tree also. So that is God consciousness, advanced God consciousness. Because everywhere there is part and parcel of God. Any way, either materially or spiritually. In our childhood, actually what I am doing, it was all taught in our childhood by our parents, my family. We were taught, "There is a grain of rice on the ground, and if it is touched by your feet, you should pick up the grain and touch on your head." This was our training. The idea behind—that the grain of rice is not man-made. It is sent by God. "O God, give us our daily bread." So here is the bread. It is God's mercy. Just see how idea, great idea. What is given by God, that is also God. This is God consciousness. You are asking God's mercy. So God's mercy is also God, the Absolute. So how can you disrespect a thing which is given by God? You cannot produce rice. You cannot produce bread. It is given by God. Everything... Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the beginning of drinking water. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The taste of the water, I am." So water, or any liquid thing you are drinking, if you are feeling some pleasure, ānanda... Ānandamaya. That God is ānanda.
Prabhupāda: ...human being. It is not meant for the beast. God has given different food for different person, different. You will find even food grains, rice-first quality rice, second quality rice. Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
Madhudviṣa: He wants... He would like to know what you think that Australia should help Asia with as far as making people more comfortable to live in this world and what Australia can imbibe from Asia as far as teaching in science as well as general living.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So far I have studied, not only Australia, but also America and Africa, there are immense land uncultivated. So I think all these countries... The population increased in India, China, and similar other places. They should allow to come them, come here and produce food grains. If you cannot manage the over-populated countries, they should come. If the government allows, they would immediately come and utilize the vast land for producing food grains. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we have the statement-find out, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Find out this verse. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.
Cāru:
- annād bhavanti bhūtāni
- parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
- yajñād bhavati parjanyo
- yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
- (BG 3.14)
"Translation: All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of yajña, sacrifice, and yajña is born of prescribed duties."
Prabhupāda: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor?
Madhudviṣa: Cultivators.
Prabhupāda: The land is not suitable?
Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts. The gentleman's contention is that if we try to grow grains in a semi-desert area it would throw off the balance of the natural, the natural pulse of the earth, let us say, and it would cause havoc in other fields. One of the basic things that our spiritual master is putting forward is that if we put an emphasis on producing food grains and milk and vegetables to live on, concentrating on those points instead of complicating our lives with great industries for cosmetics and film industries and things that are really not essential to us... There's people that don't have the essentials and other people who have all the trappings of the modern technological science. Our spiritual master's contention is that real happiness lies in simple living and high thinking and this is the education that we're trying to put forward. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study.
Dr. Harrap: Oh, yes. Yes. Even in cheeses there are probably hundreds of varieties.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We make. We actually make. At least ten, twenty kinds of sweet preparation we make from the cheese. Therefore our, as recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. People... A class of men should be trained up for agriculture, producing food grain, and cow protection. Cow protection means you get the milk, sufficient quantity, and from milk you get so many nutritious, full of vitamin food.
Prabhupāda: This industry is horrible work. Simply by tilling your ground you get food grains, and keep some cows, you get milk—your economic problem is solved. Why such big, big industries? Ugra-karma. Then? Go on.
Prabhupāda: That has happened.
Madhudviṣa: They are fishing all over the world, trying to get some oil, trying to get some steel, how to get some grain.
Cāru: They only work two days in a week now in England.
Madhudviṣa: That's finished now. During the petrol shortage they had to cut themselves down to two days a week.
Prabhupāda: Now they have got Australia. Australia is English possession?
Madhudviṣa: No.
Prabhupāda: No, no more.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world. There are enough space for producing food grains. And if we actually produce food grain, we can maintain ten times of the present population of the whole world. There is no question of scarcity because God has created everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). There cannot be any defect in the creation of God. We have created these defects on account of our disobeying the orders of God. God never said that "motorcar-ād bhavanti bhūtāni." He never says. But instead of producing food grains, we are producing so many unwanted things. People's energy is engaged for... Just like in America or in every country, so much energy and resources are engaged for preparing war materials. And that means there must be war.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they are independent. They are nobody's servant. But at the present moment, education means how to become expert servant. That means śūdra. So we cannot expect any good things from śūdra. That is not possible. Formerly there was monarchy, and the kings were called rājarṣis, saintly king. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These instruction are meant for the rājarṣis, not for the śūdras. So the rājarṣis, they would take instruction from superior authority, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, and they will accordingly rule over. And the vaiśyas would produce food grains sufficiently and milk sufficiently. People would eat very nicely, and they keep their health fit and save time for understanding his relationship with God. That is perfect civilization.
Prabhupāda: In the Bengali there is a saying, tomara ye bhalo vasa, mussulmane murgi posaya. You know this? That "Your love is like the Mohammedans keeping chickens and love him." That means "The chickens be fat, and I shall eat it." This is your love. They are keeping cows not for love, but for eating.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I mean in the sense, farmers, that they produce the grains and vegetables. I was thinking in that line.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That is somewhere in India still. But here they keep cows not for protection, for eating. (break) ...chemical. Life is already there.
Prabhupāda: First of all, killing is sinful. Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is sinful, it doesn't matter whether you kill cow or goat or anything. But from economic point of view, cow is very important because it supplies milk. And milk preparation, we Indians know how many you can get nice milk preparation. Dahi, rābṛi, this, that, Huh? But how nutritious, how palatable. And that is good for human being. First thing is that why you should kill if you have got sufficient food, eh? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Eh? Vegetables, fruits, then food grains, then sugar, everything is there sufficient. At least we Indian, we know we can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparations, nice palatable, enjoyable. Why should you go to kill the animal?
Guest (2): Well scientists claim that meat ah...
Prabhupāda: Scientists, first of all we have rejected that.
Reporter: You are not suggesting that all of that is just cut away completely, but that people...?
Prabhupāda: No, you require... First thing, you require to eat. So Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce sufficient grain, food grain, so that both the animal and the man, they will eat and become robust, stout, and strong. And they will be capable of working. So that is the first thing. But who is producing food grains? They are producing motor tires. When there is scarcity of food, will these motor tires help us? We shall eat motor tires? This is going on, so-called industrialization, producing unnecessary thing which is not required, and they are neglecting producing food grains. And I have estimated—I am traveling all over the world—that there are so much space even now that if you produce food grain, you can feed ten times of the population as it is. But they will not do that. They will create motorcars, and the whole street is congested. At any moment there can be accident, and if you have to go to consult a doctor, you have to go thirty miles off. Because the motorcar is there. I am diseased. I want to consult a doctor. So he must be in neighborhood. But I have to go thirty miles. And maybe, before going to the doctor, I may be finished, by accident. Anartha, it is called anartha. Anartha means unwanted things.
Reporter: No, I mean a time coming when disaster is averted and people realize...
Prabhupāda: No, unless you take the real instruction, how you can stop disaster? You must agree to take the real instruction. If you don't agree, then you suffer. That is your business. But the remedy is there. The instruction is there. Just like Bhagavad-gītā says, "Produce food grain." The remedy is there. But you will not produce food grain; you will produce motorcar. Then you must suffer.
Reporter: But do you foresee a time when many people will receive that remedy?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhāgavata, every line is so important.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, I had heard—of course, I'm not certain of the source—that because of impiety the sun and the moon, people would not be able to see. So there would be no vegetation. And without vegetation, even animals cannot live. So eventually they would take to eating their own children. Is this what takes place?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be no foodstuff at the end of... That is stated. No milk, no food grains, no fruits, no whatever. Especially food grains.
Devotee (2): There will be some devotees left at the end of Kali-yuga?
Prabhupāda: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... (break) (loud noise of car screeching.) ...are not very neat and clean. (chuckles) Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.
Brahmānanda: Not in proper repair.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Process as laid down in Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ABCD. Then you can go further on. If you read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, there is everything explained, everything. All problems are solved. Any problem you propose, there is solution in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now this poverty, as you raised this question, poverty, so what is written there in the Bhagavad-gītā? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). This is instruction, that "You produce food grain." Now, suppose Calcutta is a big city. Who is producing food grain? Everyone is trying to purchase food grain. But who is thinking that "Wherefrom the food grain will come?" Just see the foolishness of the people. You have to produce food grain. And there is ample facility. But throughout the whole world there are hundreds and thousands of cities. Now, who is producing food grain? The solution is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. He said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said, "By motor tire bhavanti bhūtāni." Bhavanti means flourish. Everyone is engaged in producing motor tire, car, and they are flattering the Arabians for petrol. The same energy, if it would have been engaged in producing food grain, then where is the poverty? (Someone enters) Oh! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you solve? There are so many land. Come here and grow food. Grow fruit. That is... That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food and eat in sufficiently, be strong, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Why you are producing bolts and nuts, tire and tubes? Eat. Rascal. They do not know that first of all you must eat. No, everyone is engaged in industry. Why? Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Take to industry." Kṛṣṇa says, "Produce foodstuff." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you produce foodstuff, then both your animals, yourself, will be happy, becoming strong. Why do they manufacture other things? All these people are engaged in manufacturing, and nobody is manu..., er, growing food. Therefore the price of food grain is rising. Suppose I am growing food, and you are not growing, so you have to purchase from me. I'll ask, "You have to pay this price." And you have to pay. And if you grow your own food, there is no such question. The simple economic problem, solution, this rascal cannot take. If you grow your own food, I grow my own, then who is going to purchase? The price will be reduced automatically. If you have no customer, then you have to reduce your price. But they do not understand even the simple thing that "God has given us enough land to produce food grain, and we must eat." They do not understand this. And still, they are scientist, philosopher, politician. Just see. That is the difficulty. All rascals, fools, they are leading the whole human society.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But when the body is finally finished, aren't the senses also finished?
Prabhupāda: No. Body will have finished when you are liberated. Otherwise, one after another, another body, that's all. Childhood body is finished, you have got another body. But in a childhood body there were senses, and still you have got senses. The body may change, but the senses will continue. Even in the small ant, for sense gratification, they gather as soon as there will be grain of sugar immediately. They have got the same senses. Just like you run after something according to your estimation very big, for them that one grain of sugar is very big. So they are also running after sense gratification. So anybody, viṣaya karuṇa sarva dakṣaya, whatever body you may get, the senses will be there, and you'll enjoy, according to your capacity.
Prabhupāda: So, drama is good. Woman dancing will not be very much appreciated here. (break) ...scarcity of grains and government will exact taxes for poor-feeding, and it will be used for their own purpose. These are the Kali symptoms. (break) ...stay in future.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Are they doubting for themselves or for us?
Prabhupāda: For us.
Guest (1): They should doubt for themselves.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, now, from logical point of view...
Guest (1): Our movement, this movement, is Kṛṣṇa's own movement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that they may not... I mean to say, from mundane argument, we are selling these twenty lakhs of worth books monthly, so it is being spread all over the world. And those who are purchasing books, they are intelligent men. Then when they will read, how this movement will stop?
Guest (1): It will never stop.
Prabhupāda: It will not stop. The books distribution is so important, that it will continue to stay.
Prabhupāda: There will be very, very big chaos, this godless civilization. And it is distinctly said, "There will be no grain, no sugar, no milk." These things will be stopped. Eat your sons and daughter. You are very much fond of eating meat. Eat your son. They will do that. I think they are doing now. You know that?
Guest: In Africa, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not Africa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vietnam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I heard that the North Vietnamese and Vietcong were killing...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now they are killing child in the womb. That killed child is taken in the hotel.
Brahmānanda: There was a report that that was going on in New York.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That balance of diet can be done by grains and vegetables. Why should we kill animals? We know that, the balance can be done. You learn from us that balanced food can be done.
Amogha: But in the Bible it says that God gave animals to the man.
Prabhupāda: For protection. Not for eating. Rascals. Bible does not say that you kill animals. Then Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. His commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." If he allows killing, then why does he say, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then you prove that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. Are you following a hypocrite? Nonsense.
Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?
Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.
Prabhupāda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation.
Prabhupāda: No killing.
Amogha: Yes, but the Buddhist monks, when they beg, they simply accept whatever alms they receive, and if they receive meat then they'll eat that, and if they receive some raw grains then they eat that. Actually that is a higher state of renunciation.
Paramahaṁsa: And if they receive some cigarettes they'll smoke them.
Amogha: Yes, and if they receive-they'll take anything, they are so renounced. So isn't that more spiritual?
Prabhupāda: They have no idea what is spiritual. Buddhist religion is not a spiritual. It is material. If you kill me then I feel pain; therefore I shall not kill you. This is.
Prabhupāda: Brahman means the greatest, so as the sky, to our experience the sky is greater. What is the sky? The sky is a combination of small atoms. Do you know that? So if the sky is Brahman, then it is a combination of small atoms, then the small atoms are also Brahman? Just like a huge stack of rice, they are called rice, and a small grain of rice, that is also rice. So therefore there are two kinds of Brahman—the component parts of the Brahman they are also Brahman, and whole Brahman is also Brahman. Do you follow?
Kim: I hear the words.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you understand?
Kim: I follow the analogy of the rice.
Prabhupāda: The sky, the Brahman. What is the sky? A combination of atoms. So the component parts they are also Brahman, otherwise how it is Brahman? Unless the component parts are Brahman, how is it Brahman? It is a combination of many component parts, small Brahman. Param Brahman. Param Brahman means the supreme. The sea water, ocean water. Ocean water is very big, that is Brahman. Big means Brahman. But what is this ocean water? Small molecules of water. Sometimes we see the sea waves, small molecules, cool. So it is combination of small Brahman. So, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. And we are a small, very small fragmental portion of Brahman. How small are we? One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We cannot see even the tip of the hair, very small point. And you have to divide it into ten thousand parts. And that one part—you, I, everyone. So small. So everything is Brahman. It is said sarva khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Why? Because the Brahman is very big, but what is this big? The big is a combination of small molecules, atoms.
Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?
Amogha: That must be true.
Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.
Prabhupāda: The government shouldn't allow you to keep slaughterhouses. If anyone wants to eat meat, let them eat like tigers and others. Individually, kill one animal—a lower animal, not cows. This should be the government law. You can kill one insignificant animal, like pigs or goats. It has not very much use. You kill it in your home, before your children and family, and eat. The government may not have any objection. But why should you maintain slaughterhouses? So the agriculturist and the mercantile men, they should produce enough food, give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, sell it. Where there is not enough food grain produced you can make business. That is the instruction given in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). That is really needed. Nobody is interested. Everyone comes to the city, the mercantile class. They are doing business, big, big skyscraper building, and they have artificial money, paper. And instead of eating food grains they are maintaining slaughterhouses. This is not good civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. It is good. But they are not led by good leader. Otherwise next alternative is this, that you have to give up this artificial way of civilization. Now this land is vacant. We can produce so much food grains if it is utilized. Fruits, flower, vegetables, grains—we can produce. This land is very good land for producing potato, watermelon, this. Very good land. But who is doing that? This is the suitable land for producing watermelon. And watermelon is such a nice thing, and potato. You boil potato and take watermelon, you have full nourishment are supplied. Very innocent and simple food.
Paramahaṁsa:
- annād bhavanti bhūtāni
- parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
- yajñād bhavati parjanyo
- yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
- (BG 3.14)
Translation: "All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of yajña, sacrifice, and yajña is born of prescribed duties."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Paramahaṁsa: Purport: "Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, a great commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, writes as follows: ye indrādy-aṅgatayāvasthitaṁ yajñaṁ sarveśvaraṁ viṣṇum abhyarcya tac-cheṣam aśnanti tena tad deha-yātrāṁ sampādayanti, te santaḥ sarveśvarasya bhaktāḥ sarva-kilbiṣair anādi-kāla-vivṛddhair ātmānubhava-pratibandhakair nikhilaiḥ pāpair vimucyante(?). The Supreme Lord, who is known as the yajña-puruṣaḥ, or the personal beneficiary of all sacrifices, is the master of all demigods who serve Him as the different limbs of the body serve the whole. Demigods like Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, etc., are appointed officers who manage material affairs, and the Vedas direct sacrifices to satisfy these demigods so that they may be pleased to supply air, light and water sufficiently to produce food grains. When Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, the demigods, who are different limbs of the Lord, are also automatically worshiped; therefore there is no separate need to worship the demigods.
Prabhupāda: But what you will do with money? If there is no grain, then will you eat money? (laughter)
Justin Murphy: Certainly not.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Money is not required. Required—food grains.
Justin Murphy: But unfortunately, of course increasingly now, in our society, there is an increasing ability to produce food almost artificially. And this happens more and more...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the scarcity? Why you are complaining, "There is scarcity of water." Why? You are complaining, "scarcity." If there is enough food, then why you are complaining about scarcity?
Justin Murphy: Well, I complain because I am a geographer, because I am working with an eye to the future, with an eye to a long-term situation where I can see that...
Prabhupāda: But I... Your problem and my problem is not different. You are thinking... I am not thinking. It may be. But you require food grain, I require food grain, the animals require food grain, and everyone requires food grain. So if there is sufficient food grain, then everyone will be happy.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the next question will be, "If you get sufficient grain for eating, why should you take to industry?"
Justin Murphy: To make money, very simply.
Prabhupāda: Then what for, money? Money means you require the necessities of life.
Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses. So śamaḥ means keeping the mind always equipoised, and damaḥ, the controlling the mind. And suppose if... I have to eat something to live. So God has given me so many nice foodstuff: food grain, fruits, milk. Why should I kill an animal unnecessarily, for the taste of my tongue?
Justin Murphy: Selfishness.
Prabhupāda: But I want to live. There are... India, eighty percent people, they are vegetarian. They are living very nicely. They are eating sufficient food grain and fruits and milk and milk product. God has given us so many. So why should we maintain slaughterhouse, killing other animals? So a first-class man will not do that. First-class man will think that "I want to eat something to keep myself fit. If by natural products I can keep myself fit, why shall I kill another animal?" And every religion teaches that. Now take in your Christian religion. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouse. So this is the condition of the society. How you can become happy? You are violating the rules and regulation of religion and God. You cannot become... Nature will disturb in so many ways. That is nature's business.
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we accept what is eaten by Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa wants these things: fruits, flower, vegetable, grains, milk. So we offer them and eat.
Guest (2): Why not animals?
Prabhupāda: He does not say, "Give Me animals." Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot take anything which is not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): Are blood transfusions permissible, Swami?
Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Are blood transfusions permissible?" When one is in an accident or cut and he loses blood, they take another man's blood and put it it. He says...
Prabhupāda: Well, that is not bad. Because if one life is saved by transfusion admission... He is not dying. He is living. He is contributing his blood. So if he is contributing, you are saving some life, there is no harm.
Prabhupāda: The big animal eats the small animal. But the big animal, because he's big, does it mean that he's not animal? He's also animal. The tiger eats a dog. Does that mean the tiger is not animal? The dog is animal, the tiger is also. Animal, he is god who knows how to live without these animals—that is human life. So, why shall I eat animals? I shall eat fruits, I shall eat vegetables, I shall eat nice food grains, I shall drink milk. That is human. Why shall I eat animals' blood and flesh? "No, it is very tasteful." (laughter) So what is the difference between you and dog?
Amogha: They don't know how to cook, the dogs.
Prabhupāda: Well, nature has made them like that. The human beings, they can utilize the land, they can produce so many nice foodstuffs. That is human society. What is this society? They are living in big, big skyscraper building, and for their food the slaughterhouse killing, and they are eating. Is that human civilization? All third class, fourth class men.
Prabhupāda: You are taking of country, but the śāstra takes of the planets, not of the country. Your idea is very crippled: country, national. But śāstra is not... There is no such thing as national. They take the whole universe as a whole. They consider from that angle of vision. These crippled ideas, "state," "national," has come later on. There was no such thing previously. One planet or universe, like that. Just like last night the girl was astonished that "How this planet can be governed by one king?" It was being actually done. And the whole universe is being governed by Brahmā, one person. So one must know how to govern.
Devotee (1): We can see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by the distribution of wealth and minerals in each loka, in each planet, it is meant to be governed by one ruler. One place there is gold, one place grain to grow. Is this true?
Prabhupāda: No. Everywhere there is everything, maybe proportionately in different quantities.
Devotee (2): So as not to disturb the activity of the inhabitants through the daytime.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. If nighttime it rains and daytime there is sunshine, then the land becomes very fertile to produce. Yes. There is a common saying in Bengal, dine jal rātr e tā rā sei janme sukha dhā rā.(?) If it rains heavily during daytime and at night you see the stars, then you should know there will be scarcity of rain. There will be scarcity of rain and scarcity of food grains. Best thing is at night there must be heavy rain, and daytime, there should be sunshine. Then the field will be very fertile.
Prabhupāda: His ideal is all right. His ideal, Communist idea that everyone should be happy, that is good idea. But they do not know how make ev... Just like they are taking care of the human being in the state, but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they are godless, they do not know the animal is also a living being and the human being also living being. So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animal should be cut throat. That is the defect. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he is equal to everyone. That is learned. "I take care of my brother and I kill you," that is not right. That is going on. Everywhere. Nationalism. Nation... National means one who has taken birth in that land. But the animal, poor animal, because they cannot make any protest, send them to the slaughterhouse. And if there were ideal men, they would have protested, "Oh, why you are doing this? Let them live also. You live also.
Just produce food grains. The animals can also take, you can also take. Why should you take animal?" That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: So we have got food grains, we have got fruits, we have got milk. By combination of milk and food grains we can prepare so many nice palatable, full of vitamins. Why we should kill the animal? Let the animal live and take it's milk and prepare nice food, full of vitamins. Milk is nothing conversion of blood. So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing.
Prabhupāda: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. "Working hard simply to know." Kliśyanti. Kliśyanti means working very hard, labor. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply to understand. But they are not kliśyanti to understand God. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. This kind of knowledge is compared with beating the bush. That's all. After taking away the paddy grains, only the skin remains. And if you again beat the skin to get grains, that is not possible.
Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They can grow food both for the animals and for human being. Instead, they are simply growing food for the animals and killing them. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. You sing this before taking prasādam. The tongue is the greatest enemy and greedy. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. For the satisfaction of the tongue they are risking their own life and committing sinful life to suffer later on. Therefore the first-class man's first duty is to śamaḥ, controlling the mind. If one can control the mind, that "If I can live with grains, food, and milk, why shall I kill the ani...?" this is controlling the mind. They cannot control even this small thing. "Live and let live,"—this policy they do not follow. "Live and kill others." "Live at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: No, it is not killing. If you take fruit, where is the killing? The tree is there. If you takes food grains, the food grains, after being produced, the tree dies automatically.
Śrutakīrti: Yeah. Wheat is harvested after it dies, not while it is alive.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means asses. The asses think that "I will be recognized by my work." He takes so much labor, load, although nothing, not a grain of the load belongs to him. But he takes the load unnecessarily. So this is their business. He will not live, his son will not live, his grandson will not live, but he is making permanent business.
Amogha: But when we're living we can enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that enjoy. Pramattaḥ. They are called madmen. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. They know it certainly, "Every one of us will die," but seeing also, they do not see. And that is madman. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. That the animal, he is seeing that "One animal is being killed. Next time is mine," but still eating grass. He has no anxiety. This is called pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. This is animal life, that even though fact is there, they will close their eyes. That's all. This is animal life.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's... What Kṛṣṇa says, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you take it, Bhagavad-gītā, that instruction? What is wrong there? Every problem is solved there. Now, so far economic... Now the question is economic. So Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So where is the objection? Produce food grain, and both animal and man will be happy. So who will disagree with this point? Follow this. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa says first. This is economic. Social—Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society should be divided into four classes according to quality and work. So four classes there are. First class, intelligent class; the second class, the administrators; the third class, the mercantile; and the fourth class, who are not within these three class. That is going on. Now make it systematic. The first-class man... Who is a first-class man? Then... Find out. Satya śamo damaḥ titikṣa ārjavaḥ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Train first-class men. He must be truthful. He must be self-controlled, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. He must have full knowledge of the whole world, jñānaṁ vijñānam, practical application.
Bali-mardana: The people, they feed their dog and cat so much food that millions of human beings could be fed from the food. Because so much grains are required... They feed them meat, but so much grains are required to produce that food.
Siddha-svarūpa: More money is spent on food for dogs in the United States than for babies.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there's so much... They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. (break) They're even learning how to eat dog food. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But these general, the students... You are going to study our students, but you see they are not smoking. Why don't you see...? (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...making other people starve by eating so much meat so in the future the other countries might force us to stop eating meat so that we can use the grain to feed people. So actually materially, economically, socially, in every way it is very bad. They are realizing now.
Prabhupāda: And they will say that because they are not eating meat, they are weak in health.
Dharmādhyakṣa: But their children are not chanting and dancing. You see? In their schools... When people come here and they see the young children chanting and dancing and so energetic, they say, "Where are these children getting their energy?"
Prabhupāda: That is real study.
Prabhupāda: He is acting on the field. If the field is not acting, the soul is not there. Just like field, agricultural field, when you see the food grains are growing, the grass is there nicely, the paddy is growing nicely, you know, "Somebody is working." And in the jungle, where there is no paddy field, it is simply jungle, you know nobody is working. Where is the difficulty? When these things are in working order, then you know the soul is there. And it is decomposing, lying on the field and birds are coming, eating, dogs are biting—that means the soul is not there. This is distinction. Where is the difficulty? When the motor car is standing on the middle road, you know, "There is no driver. It is left over." Although the big machine, but because there is no driver, it is lying uncared for.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal." Therefore the Bhaga..., kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, that cow should be protected because it is a very, very, important animal. It does not say, "Other animal." Or does not say, "All animals." He said, "Cows," because important. It's supplying you milk, so important food. She is your mother and you are killing mother? Is that your civilization? Killing mother? "Mother is old, and mother is no more supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, old mother is given more protection. And what is this civilization, killing the mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and the mother cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply, kill her. What is this philosophy?
Brahmānanda: In India isn't it the system that after they harvest the wheat they leave some on the ground for the others to come and pick?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they distribute while in the field. They give to the brāhmaṇas, to the temples, to the king, and the balance they take. This is the Vedic system, that if I grow something, first of all twenty-five percent to the king, then to the temple, to the brāhmaṇas, to the poor. And then balance, I shall take. And they produce so large quantity, they do not feel any scarcity. And when the trade came, people understood. Then they want to sell. "Why shall I give to the temple? Why shall I give to the brāhmaṇa? Save it. I shall sell it. I shall get more money, and I shall drink." When trade came. When there was no trade, you grow your own food and distribute freely. In my Guru Mahārāja's time they were collecting the rice and other food grain, huge quantity. They were giving. And now they are not giving. They think that "If I sell, I shall get so much money, and it will help me for my drinking."
Devotee (1): So if there is, let us say there is grain and rice being offered to the Deities, and one finds that if he eats this, his service is impaired. Like so many times I've seen, practically myself if I overeat grains in the summertime, I drive around doing my service and I'm falling asleep.
Prabhupāda: Then which foodstuff suits you?
Devotee (1): Fruits are more... they keep me more active.
Prabhupāda: So you take fruit. Fruit is also offered to the Deity. There are varieties of prasādam. So whichever suits, you can take. Anything artificial is bad.
Prabhupāda: Over and above, there is fruit.
Harikeśa: A lot of devotees are quoting you that... they say that there is no need to eat grains, that you said grains were for the animals.
Prabhupāda: I am...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda is eating grains. (laughter)
Harikeśa: I tell them that.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, they say, "Prabhupāda says." And you believe that.
Bhāvānanda: In India. And here they're saying, "Oh, I don't want this and don't want that. I don't want this grain, that grain." But in India people are dying for want of food. Here they're so spoiled. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa's position. If He does not supply grains, then He is accused. And He supplies grains, then He is accused. (laughter)
Bhāvānanda: Everyone is accused. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...those scientists came to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and even said milk was no good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.
Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)
Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.
Prabhupāda: Vegetable, grains, that's all. But something must be given. This is our program. So I saw yesterday the mayor. He came also very kindly. And you have come. So you consult yourself. This place or any place, give us some facility and see the result.
Lt. Mozee: Would you say that it should be done in an area of affluence or an area of poverty to begin with?
Prabhupāda: No, we have no distinction, such, but a place which is easily available for all kinds of men, that is very nice. There is no such condition that the only poor man will take benefit and the rich man, they do not require. Everyone requires. Do you think that the criminality is only in the poorer section?
Lt. Mozee: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: Then? Everyone is a criminal, either he is a poor man or rich man. So we should not make such distinction, that only it is meant for the poor man.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, he's chanting nicely.
Prabhupāda: Tobacco, by which... They know tobacco is bad, and they are utilizing time for growing tobacco and smoking tobacco. This is their intelligence. So blind men... Give them intelligence, these rascals. We call therefore only rascals. People are dying for want of food grains, and they are growing tobacco, which smoking, they will go to hell. This is their intelligence. Huh? What do you think?
Satsvarūpa: I agree.
Prabhupāda: This is the idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes, cow, from where you get milk, that cow. So the exact word is used in Sanskrit, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Vaiśya, the third-class man, is called vaiśya. So his duty is how to produce food, food grains, for both for the animals and the man. And he gives protection to the cows. As the second-class man, the administrator, he gives protection to the human being from danger, similarly, the third-class man is entrusted to give protection to the cows. Cow is very important animal in the society because it is supplying milk, the most nutritious food. And... Find out. This is the third-class man's duty. And the fourth-class man means general worker. He has no brain, he simply helps the other three classes: first-class, second-class, and the third-class. And below the fourth-class men, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class. So they are called lower class, less than the fourth-class. So the society should be generally divided into four classes. As I have given example, there is head, arm, belly, and leg.
Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī.
Prabhupāda: That you can see practically. They are not drunkards, they are not meat-eaters. From physiological point of view, they are very clean. They will never be attacked with so many diseases. Then they do not eat meat, means that is the most sinful, to kill others for the satisfaction of the tongue. God has given to the human society so many things to eat: nice fruits, nice flowers, nice grains, first-class milk. And from milk, you can prepare hundreds of nutritious foods. But they do not know the art. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse and eating meat. No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice. The United Nation is there, working for the last thirty years, but there is no solution because it is all zero without God. Bring God and everything will be nice. Take any question, just like economic question. There is now very acute, especially in our country. Now, the God says that "Your economic problem will be solved like this." What is that? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You produce sufficient quantity of food grains." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "Then both the animals and man will sufficiently eat, and they will be satisfied." What is the wrong there? You must have sufficient food. Then annād bhavanti bhūtāni. And anna, producing anna, you require cloud in the sky. And that is produced by yajña. So one after another. So people must be satisfied first of all by eating sumptuously. So instead of producing food grains, you are very much busy for producing motor tires. So motor tire will not make the hungry people satisfied. So everything is there, practical, whatever is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. It is simply proportion, five upon ten and five millions upon ten million. The proportion is the same. Because the figure is five million over ten million, that does not mean that the proportion is not the same. Put five upon ten or five million for ten mill..., the result is the same. (break)
Rādhā-vallabha: ...also create food grains like this with their chemicals. They could do it too.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you produce more and give to India?
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, it belongs to us.
Prabhupāda: Why other parts, they will suffer for gain. That's nice. You have made scientific improvement. You produce more and distribute to the poor country. (break) we become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become advance in science and cooperate. That is our proposition. Andha-kañja-nyāya. One is blind; one is lame. So let the lame man be taken by the blind man. He can walk and they... Both their work will be nicely done. That I put this argument always. Andha-kañja-nyāya. You are blind by material advancement, and India has got spiritual advancement, but for want of money they cannot Move. So you take this lame man, you blind, on your shoulder, and cooperation will be good for the whole world.
Mr. Surface: Were some of the animals destined to survive through the destruction of other animals?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are also destroying so many cows daily, although you are human being. Do you consider that "Why this cow should be slaughtered?" They are also living beings. So what about the animals? If man can slaughter so many animals daily, then if a tiger kills another one animal, what is the wrong there? That is the distinction between man and animal. Everyone has to eat somebody, and nature's law is one living being is eating another living being. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So the snake is eating the frog, the frog is eating another small animal or some flies, and the snake is eaten by the mongoose, and the mongoose eaten by somebody else, by cat or by dog. So this is the law of nature. Therefore the human being is suggested that "You should take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Eating is required, but you don't eat like the lower animals. You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who is offering Me with devotion and love leaves, vegetables, fruits, flowers, milk, that I take." So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. So that is our philosophy—we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Although there is also... Maybe not killing. Because if I take this flower from the tree, the tree is not killed. If I take grains from the paddy... What is called?
Bhojadeva: Plant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it dies before. All these food grain plants, when the food grains are ripened, they dry. So it is not required to kill the plant. When it is already dead, you can take the food grains. When you take milk, the cow is not killed. The milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So we are taking milk means blood. The blood is in a red color, and milk is in white color, but it is blood. Unless it is blood, how so much liquid comes from the body? So we take the same blood in a very intelligible way so that cow may live, he can continue to give me more and more, and I take more benefit from the wonderful food, milk. This is intelligence. And because cow blood is very beneficial for health, if I kill the cow, that is not very good intelligence. In our New Vrindaban the cows are giving more milk than others because they know we shall not kill them. They are happy. You'll get from Bhāgavatam... Find out this verse in the First Canto, I think, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). Find this verse.
Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow. Find out this verse from Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Those who are vaiśyas... Economic development... Vaiśya means economic development. They should produce ample food grains and give protection to the cows. Just like our Kṛṣṇa's life, His foster father was a vaiśya. So he is keeping so many hundred thousands of cows, and Kṛṣṇa was entrusted to take charge of the calves, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So although They were very rich father's son, still They were taking the calves in the forest for tending in childhood. Still... You have seen in Māyāpur? The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all. That is very easily available. You can get enough fruits if you cultivate trees and plants.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: There is so much mismanagement in different parts of the world that there are so many revolutions now in all parts of the world including India, Africa and even the United States. There are so many problems based on the fact that their food grains and milk supply are not being supplied nicely or distributed nicely. Now, supposing that there is a demand that there should be good management for it, how these things should be distributed properly, by what system, so that people can get these things in a way that they can become God conscious and at the same time have their...?
Prabhupāda: God consciousness does not depend on distribution of food. It requires cultural education. It does not mean that one who has got enough food, he is God conscious. The food distribution is not one of the conditions for becoming God conscious. That is wrong project. "If people are given sufficient food, they will become God conscious"—that is not the fact. But people advance this theory, that "We are now economically distressed. We cannot turn our attention to God consciousness." That is a wrong plea. God consciousness does not depend on any material condition.
Prabhupāda: Nature's arrangement... In this material world you cannot eat without working. Even if you are lion-lion is considered to be the most powerful animal—he has to capture one animal. He cannot think that "Let me sleep, and the animal will come automatically in my mouth." It is not possible. You have to work; this is the material world. So that work is simple work. If you have got land... Everyone has got land. You just work little, and it will produce your food grains. And the food grains will give food to the animal and man. The animal, cow, he will eat the grass, and you will take the grains. Why should you kill the animal? You haven't got to arrange for his food. You produce paddy. The plant, when it is dried, it is good for animals, and you take the grains. Why should you kill him? And he will deliver you. If you protect his life, he will give you nice milk. So you keep animal, cows, and grow food grain; then your food problem is solved. So if your food problem is solved and your cloth problems is solved, then where is your economic necessity? Then you save time and cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So real business will be how to cultivate, how to become advanced in God consciousness. That the animal cannot do. You are claiming more intelligence than the animals, so use your intelligence in this way. Don't spoil day and night for your economic development. So-called economic development means as soon as you become stout and strong, then sense gratification. Then you cultivate the culture of nudism.
Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity. Combine together, working differently but for the same purpose, for pleasing Kṛṣṇa, then you will become happy. That is equality. Unity in variety. That is wanted. Variety is enjoyment. Variety is not disturbing. Just like Kṛṣṇa gave, all of them fruits, but variety. They are coming from the same source, earth, but Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent—varieties of fruit, varieties of flowers, varieties of grain, varieties of brain. That is enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: You are not producing for man?
Nityānanda: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Any grains for man?
Nityānanda: No, we're not growing any grains for man right now. We have fruit trees in the yard. Pears, peaches, plums, figs.
Prabhupāda: Some growing?
Nityānanda: Not very much. They are very young. We just planted them. In a few years we will get lots of fruit.
Prabhupāda: Here the land is mixed with some stones? No.
Nityānanda: I think they put this here, this gravel.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupāda? A materialist or someone who wouldn't know, he may say that when the bull is not plowing, all he is doing is eating. You have to pay money to feed him grain or to grow grain to feed the bull.
Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence. This is filling up with paddy or...? No?
Nityānanda: With food for the cows. This one has forage or fodder, and that one has grain.
Prabhupāda: So everything is for the animals. Nothing for the man?
Nityānanda: The cows give us milk.
Prabhupāda: That's all? And you are not growing any food grains? Why?
Nityānanda: Er... We've been trying to establish self-sufficient cow protection program first, to grow our own food for the cows.
Nityānanda: Down the road we have fifteen acres of sorghum, grain for the cows.
Prabhupāda: And everything for the cows, but what for the man? They will give everything for cows because they will eat cows, other farmers. But you utilize the animals for growing your food.
Brahmānanda: The idea is we should maintain the animals, but then the animals should provide foodstuffs for the men.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): Distributing books?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the distribution book can be done by the vaiśya, trade. It is a trade. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi, agriculture, giving protection to cows, and distributing or trading. If you have got enough grains you can trade. Make money. If you have got enough vegetables, you can trade. That is the business of vaiśya. So vaiśya does not require any university degree or any... Nobody requires university degree. That is a false thing. And brāhmaṇa should be very highly learned scholar. So the brāhmaṇas will give advice to the kṣatriya how to rule, and the kṣatriya will levy tax, and vaiśyas will produce food. Then the society will be perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: The grains or the milk or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Whatever, yes. "Give me twenty-five percent. You can utilize the land." So that is resource of the land.
Devotee (1): How does the kṣatriya build a palace for himself or something like that?
Prabhupāda: That will be done. To keep a prestigious position, they'll have building, servant, soldiers. Otherwise how they will fear? How they'll have respect?
Devotee (1): So the kṣatriya is the predominator of the land.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣatriya is the owner of the land.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Does not give list—then don't bring. Everyone must supply list in the evening and once it should... (aside) Jaya. It is not that Daivī-śakti gives one list—you have to go. What is this? Everything purchased in the morning, that's all. And rice, dahl, attar, ghee, for fifteen days. Only the raw fruits and vegetables should be purchased every morning. That's all.
Dhanañjaya: So Viśvambhara is going this morning to grain merchants to arrange.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dhanañjaya: Viśvambhara is going to arrange that today, to purchase for fifteen days.
Prabhupāda: Any shopkeeper will supply fifteen days. He will bring at your home and your pay him, forthrightly?
Indian man (3): But our country depends upon sugar.
Prabhupāda: No, that is mistake. Your country, you can produce your own food. That's all. Why you should depend? You produce food grains. You produce milk. Then your all necessities is supplied. Why should you produce unnecessarily?
Brahmānanda: Here they use powdered milk because they have no cows.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And here even by this sugarcane, what is called? Upper part? This part?
Indian man (1): We call it ag.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ag, yes. You can maintain thousand of cows.
Indian man (1): Because they don't want to do anything, they simply plant the sugarcane and then they want rest for few months, simply getting money and taking and drinking.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (1): No work. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...getting rice, wheat from outside, they can charge any price because the price of grain is increasing.
Indian man (1): Any time, they can stop it.
Prabhupāda: You can stop it.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one small coal mining town we did saṅkīrtana at, an Indian community. And they were thinking that "The coal mine is doing everything for us. They're giving us schools, they're giving us medicine, they're giving us... Without the coal mine where would we be?"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."
Harikeśa: But you have to do something to get it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in Kṛṣṇa book that one fruit man came, and Kṛṣṇa was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is called bartering.
Prabhupāda: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "I'll make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere.
Prabhupāda: After all, vegetable will be eaten by somebody. So let government distribute there. Vegetable, grains, fruits, milk, ghee, yogurt, natural produce—they will be used by somebody. The government may store and distribute, those who are in need. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maybe somebody is only producing gold or gold plates, or somebody is producing something that isn't food. So he would give that to the government.
Prabhupāda: Well, gold plates, that is not a necessary thing. He can eat on plantain leaf, natural production. That is luxury. So when people live simple life, the luxuries will no more be required.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say the government is building some wells or some roads. They could feed the people who are doing that, śūdras who are doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śūdras, that "You dig this well and take your food." That's all. Work will go on. At the present moment I require one scissor. I can go to the blacksmith and pay him some grain. He will give me. Now they are producing, Krupp Company in Germany, millions of razor, millions of scissors. Now they will have to find market, where to sell. And as soon as goes to sell in India, the British government—"No, no. You cannot sell." Then he becomes angry: "Oh, all right." He declares war.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. Here I see you are prosperous than in India. You go to the ration shop; you simply find all rejected food grains.
Indian man (1): Rejected food grains.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not eatable. No country uses them as food grain, and India, they are selling, a good price.
Indian man (1): The people are lazy too, Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Indian man (1): Don't you think the people are lazy also?
Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that economical progressing? So that means busy fool. Fool, they do not know how to satisfy the economic problem. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) You grow food grains. Then all economic question... But why you are not producing food grains? Why you are producing iron stools and instruments and motor and tire and collecting petrol far away from Arabia? That is... Kṛṣṇa never says that "You do all this nonsense." He said, "Grow food grains." Why don't you do that? That means fools. After all, you have to eat. So you are not busy in growing your food, but you are busy in producing tire tubes, motor cars, stools and instruments. Then how you will get your food? Where is your economic? First economic is, first necessity, you must eat.
Brahmānanda: Of making the men self-sufficient in cloth, foodstuffs, milk products, grains.
Cyavana: There's a map. (break)
Jñāna: ...program like the Christians.
Prabhupāda: Explain how to... Explain.
Brahmānanda: Of having a... Encouraging the people to..., first by having kīrtana and prasādam. (break)
Prabhupāda: This is the process. Some how or other, they should join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare..." Then everything... It is not very difficult. Simply induce them to chant. That will make everything success.
Prabhupāda: If you open farm for financial help, then it will not be successful. You should take to farming for supporting yourself. That's all. Grow your own food. Grow your own cloth. There is no need of financial help from outside. You get your food grains sufficiently, rice, dahl, wheat, vegetables, milk, sugar. Bas You get everything. From these five, six items you should be economically free. That you have to do, not for trade to get money. Then it will be failure.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says, bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Now, you have to grow trees, plants and vegetables for your eating. So that you cannot have without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives all the seeds. Bijo 'ham. You cannot manufacture the seed. He gives the seed. You work little, sow it and get the result. But without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa, how can you get the seed? Then where is your food? No food. You must take... "God, give us our daily bread." Kṛṣṇa gives the seeds, and you sow it and get the fruit or grains. Then you can exist. Even if you are animal-eater, the animal must also come from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Kṛṣṇa. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Kṛṣṇa? You have to cooperate. Otherwise... (man yelling in background) What is that? (laughter) Huh? They are criticizing us? No.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign that in very near future there will be no food grains. That is the sign. There will be no rice, no wheat, main food grain.
Yaśomatīnandana: Already in Bombay it's about six, seven rupees per kilo, rice.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Dr. Patel: No, no. Now rice will be very much down. In Gujarat it is two rupees. I bought some land here and sown the rice. We are going to get about eight hundred or a thousand mounds of rice. And when we sown the field it was sixty rupees, rice. Today it is thirty-two rupees. It is coming down. The crop is very good everywhere, all over India this year.
Prabhupāda: Because there was sufficient rain.
Prabhupāda: No, in this season it is necessary.
Aksayānanda: Very nice. We'll do. That is nice. A little more ghee should be there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Aksayānanda: A little more grain. Even little grain at night is all right, I think.
Prabhupāda: No, you must eat properly.
Aksayānanda: Yes. Then we'll do it.
Prabhupāda: And try to keep some cows.
Aksayānanda: Accha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On the other land. Make a shed immediately and keep some cows. And Viśvambhara, he is experienced. He will help. (break) ...necessary vairāgya, there is no need. We don't approve that. Yuktāhāra-vihāras ca. What you require for keeping health but not to eat too much. But what is absolutely required must be done.
Dr. Patel: People think so far as they are concerned that education means giving the knowledge of how to read and write. I think it is the knowledge and not the education. The education is something different, that trains up your mind how to think, how to, I mean, separate grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Education means ethical. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is education.
Dr. Patel: No, but I mean to say, you must know how to separate the grain from the chaff.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā begins education, instruction. Immediately He puts forward that you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. Where is such education? Everyone is thinking, "You are this body." "You are Indian, you are American, you are Hindu, you are Muslim." What is education? Bhagavad-gītā says you are not this body. That is the beginning of education. And now education means be nationalist. Drive away and bark...
Dr. Patel: (something about passport in Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, why passport? Even in our country, Mahātmā Gandhi was also infected: "Quit India." "Quit India."
Prabhupāda: If you make tamasic dāna, then you become implicated with his sinful activities. Suppose you want to kill somebody, and you're asking, "Can you give me a nice knife?" "What you will do?" "I shall kill that man." "All right, take it, dānam. I am giving you in charity." So he will be implicated. In the court, if it is known that that man supplied the knife, "Arrest him. Bring him immediately."
Dr. Patel: So what do you think about this America has supplied a lot of grain free of charge to this country, and that grain is fed to the whole of this poor population, and they are not God believers?
Prabhupāda: No, no. The Americans, they give to the government, and they are free. They have given to the government.
Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal, your government is rascal-democracy. What is the government? Government means your replica. So why do you blame the government? You are fools, rascals; you send other fools and rascals and suffer consequence. (break) ...tea, growing tobacco, growing jute, and no grains. And grain for the animal, so that animal, as soon as it becomes fatty, send it to the slaughterhouse, and then finish business. Smoke, eat meat, drink, and be happy. So much land, but it is producing tobacco, which we are prohibiting, "No smoking." (break) Vegetable is utilized. (Hindi) These crops. (Hindi) (break) ...nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām.
Haṁsadūta: They never come to this point.
| Page Title: | Grains (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=219, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 219 |