Going to the moon (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"enter moon" |"enter the moon" |"entering moon" |"entering the moon" |"go to moon" |"go to the moon" |"go to the moon" |"goes to the moon" |"going to moon" |"going to the moon" |"gone to moon" |"gone to the moon" |"moon landing" |"promoted in the moon" |"promoted to the moon" |"promoting oneself to the moon" |"reach moon" |"reach the moon" |"reached moon" |"reached the moon" |"reaches the moon" |"reaching the moon" |"steps on the moon" |"went to the moon"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: To stop death, birth, death, old age, is very major problem, but even in small things you cannot do anything. Everywhere you are dependent. And still, they are very much proud that they are advancing in scientific knowledge so that they can overcome the stringent laws of nature and so on, so on. Durāśaya. It is called durāśaya, hope which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Durāśaya. Śāstra, Bhāgavata, says, durāśaya. This is their foolishness. They are expecting something which will never be fulfilled. Therefore śāstra says, durāśaya. Now what they are doing about the moon planet?

Harikeśa: They've forgotten about it.

Sudāmā: Now they're trying for Mars.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Hele dāntavān keuṭe.(?) A man was trying to capture snake. So there are snakes, hele. There are many snakes; they have no poison, especially the water snake, the hele. So hele dāntavān keuṭe.(?) Keuṭe means cobra. So one cannot catch up the poisonless snake, and he is attempting to capture cobra. They could not go to the moon planet, which is only 1,600,000 miles above the sun, and they are going to Venus, which is far, far away, still. How many miles the Venus is situated? They have committed some mistake.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Devotee: Last week in Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda, an American astronaut that went to the moon, they asked him if he experienced God or he felt some help from God in his trip. And he said, "No, I had no religious experience. God must have gone the other way."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurukṛpā: Which way was that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said that when he...

Devotee: He went to the moon.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When he went up in the space capsule to the moon, he had no religious experience, so he thought that there was no God.

Prabhupāda: So space traveling induces a man to accept God?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a material conception, that God is in the heavens, above the clouds.

Pañca-draviḍa: According to Bhāgavatam, these...

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Beyond this material universe, very, very far away.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I can understand now. That means moon. Moon is.... A portion is bright.

Devotees: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Half of it is always bright.

Devotee: Yes. The part that's facing the sun.

Pṛthu-putra: But this is less than half.

Prabhupāda: And when they go to the moon planet, they go to the dark side. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Pañca-draviḍa: No, they say they go to the light side, too.

Haṁsadūta: No, they say the dark side is so cold that no one can.... Because there's no sunlight, it is so cold.

Prabhupāda: That means they have no experience of all the sides of the moon.

Haṁsadūta: No, they don't. They only have one side, experiencing.

Prabhupāda: So, so what is the cause of the brightness?

Pañca-draviḍa: The sun.

Prabhupāda: They have brought some dust, but this is not bright.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee: You made the statement in your purport that the moon is giving life to the vegetation on this planet. So how it can be a desert?

Prabhupāda: That I have just said. They cannot talk about moon. That means they did not go. That is now clear. (break) ...has answered my question why Monday first, er, Sunday first and Saturday last? All over the world, in India also, Sunday, er, Monday first, Sunday first, Monday second. Ask your scientist friend why this arrangement, Sunday first, Monday second, Saturday last? We have concluded that it will take seven months to reach the moon planet at the speed of eighteen thousand miles per hour. But they're going in four days. (everyone laughs) Just see how bluffing.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.

Devotee: (tape static-inaudible)

Prabhupāda: (inaudible) ...some tickets for going to moon. What they are doing with the tickets? You know that Pan American sold tickets for going to moon? You do not know? (laughs) They sold tickets, because in your country, you have got lot of money, any kind of cheating can draw money. (laughs)

Devotee (6): They're selling tickets to go to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.

Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.

Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.

Prabhupāda: Some, they're some. Otherwise they are tourists.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): Useless waste products. They've discovered new ways in science how to use things which can be used and used again and again. For example, newspapers, instead of throwing them away, they can recycle them and make new newspapers.

Devotee (3): They also say they were going to recycle their own urine and stool and use it over and over.

Prabhupāda: How?

Devotee (3): Like in the spaceship. When they go to the moon they recycle their own urine and drink it over again. (laughing)

Devotee (2): Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the most popular philosophy is (inaudible).

Prabhupāda: Madman. (laughing)

Devotee (3): Man has created so many problems in the environment, so they don't think that the problem is man's way of doing things, or its heart. They simply consider if we can make some adjustments in the environment, then everything will go on very nicely.

Prabhupāda: They will try to make adjustments with material nature, everything will be failure. ...hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. They'll never be able to adjust. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. That's all. (break) ...adjustment to lie down in the skyscraper, and now they are coming. Why they have come to the ground? Punaḥ punaś carvita. Sometimes on the ground, sometimes the sky. (break) They reject the stool and urine and then accept it. They do like that. (laughing) (break) It is rejected. It cannot be utilized. In India still the system is they use metal; when it is broken you can sell it. They take half price and supply new.... They use metal pots, and the (inaudible) is that when it is broken and old we can exchange with new plates. And this kind of bowls you have to throw away. You cannot utilize.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

Reporter: Well, I don't think it's worth the answer now, but I'm wondering what your response is.

Prabhupāda: But this is the arrangement all over the world. Sunday first, Monday second, then Tuesday. So Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, in this way. Last Saturn. This is the arrangement of the planets. So if this is the arrangement of the planets, moonday next to..., moon next to sun, and if you cannot go to the sun, how can you go to the moon?

Reporter: Do you, in other words, do you believe that astronauts landed somewhere?

Prabhupāda: That is next question. First of all, whether you actually went to the moon, that is the first question. You have to conclude that you did not, because the sun planet is first, the moon planet is second. You cannot go to the sun planet, ninety-three millions of miles, how can you go to the moon planet?

Reporter: Well, except that...

Prabhupāda: According to our śāstra, the moon planet is above the sun planet, and the distance is 1,600,000 miles. So accepting that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away, then you add another 1,600,000, almost 2,000,000, it becomes 15,000,000 miles away. So if you go at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, it takes more than 6 months. So how you go there in 4 days? And you advertise in the paper: "Now, they have reached." After 4 days.

Rāmeśvara: They don't accept that the moon is further away.

Prabhupāda: They don't accept, that is another thing, but we have got this information. How we can accept it?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Vedic understanding means there is no different Vedic version.

Reporter: But do people, say another example where what you hold is very different from what the rest of society holds, is there something else that would be...

Prabhupāda: No. Why...

Rāmeśvara: No, he means, Prabhupāda, that just like modern man is thinking that they went to the moon, and our Vedic scripture says they didn't, so he's asking are there any other controversies, just like reincarnation, transmigration...

Prabhupāda: No, so far Vedic students are concerned, there are no controversies.

Rāmeśvara: But from what the modern man believes there may be some differences.

Prabhupāda: Modern man believes, that's all right, but...

Rāmeśvara: That's what his question is.

Prabhupāda: Our, our basic knowledge is on the Vedic principle. That whatever.... Just like we are explaining now, veda-vihito dharmaḥ. We have to understand everything from the Vedas, from this Vedic knowledge. So anything which does not speak acc.... in terms of the Vedic formula, we do not accept such knowledge as valid.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: The scientists.

Prabhupāda: Scientists or philosophers, their only business is to defy God. All demons.

Bali-mardana: Actually, Prabhupāda, the people are turning away from the scientists now, because they have seen that their promises have not brought anything.

Prabhupāda: And simply, if we can expose that they never went to the moon planet, their life will be finished.

Devotees: Jaya, haribol!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can we expose that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: To expose.... They could not answer this simple question, why Sunday first and Monday second? They could not understand, these rascals, I have asked so many. Can you answer this? Can you answer, can any of you, why Sunday first? All over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Saturday last. Why? Answer this. Is there anyone?

Hṛdayānanda: What is the answer, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: The answer is sun planet first, then moon planet.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And the sun planet is ninety-three million miles, and according to Bhāgavata, the moon is 1,600,000 miles away from sun. So I have calculated the other day that it takes ninety days, no?

Hari-śauri: No, six or seven months.

Prabhupāda: Six or seven months it takes to go to the moon planet. How they have gone in four days? They have never gone.

Devotees: Oh, jaya!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you get that calculation, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you make that calculation?

Prabhupāda: Calculation, they have calculation that sun planet is ninety-three million miles from, that is, they have accepted. I also accept it. I say the moon planet is 1,600,000 miles still further. So you cannot go to the sun planet, how can go to the moon planet?

Devotees: Jaya.

Candanācārya: Today is the day of scandals. These days, there are so many scandals in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Ask them. If they say moon planet is first, why not Monday first? Why Sunday first? That's a fact. Sun planet first, then moon, then Mars. Ravi, Soma, Maṅgala, Bhū. That is the calculation.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means that all the countries are cooperating together to cheat the people, because they're all...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have taken from the Vedic literature.

Bali-mardana: No, they are right, Sunday, Monday.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean to say that everyone is saying that they have gone to the moon, that means they are all together cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: The scientists have got radiotelescopes. They bounce the sound vibration off the planet, and depending on how long it takes the sound to come back, that's how far away it is.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhāvallabha: They bounce sound vibration off a planet, and depending on how long it takes the vibration to come back, that's how far away the planet is. So they've calculated the sun to be further in that way.

Prabhupāda: First of all, answer why Sunday first. Then talk of all nonsense.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They have got some gigantic King Kong figure. It moves like a gigantic doll. Actually, to make a movie now they spend maybe ten, fifteen million dollars for one movie. (break)

Prabhupāda: They cannot cleanse nowadays?

Hari-śauri: They made a movie called "2001," and in that they had shots of men on different planets. It looked just like the moon shots. It was very..., just the same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, it is very difficult to convince the people that they have not gone to the moon. I mean, that's a good logic, but they'll think that's very childish for us to say "Sunday first, Monday."

Prabhupāda: Well, let them remain as child.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda once said that if the moon is dirt and dust, how is it that it reflects the light of the sun so much that it lights up the whole planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The common sense. They have lost their common sense.

Candanācārya: It's so shiny that it lights up the whole earth planet at night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Candanācārya: How can dirt reflect light like that?

Prabhupāda: That was my first question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that we should write a, we should publish a little book on this, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If you can.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe one of the scientists.

Candanācārya: There are many scientists who agree.

Prabhupāda: Now our scientists are challenging, Svarūpa Dāmodara and others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They could scientifically publish a book.

Candanācārya: There are scientists in England who agree that they didn't go to the planet.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Candanācārya: There are some scientists in England who agree with you that they did not go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they did not. Simply propaganda. (japa) (break) Freedom.

Hari-śauri: It's just like you said in the BTG.

Prabhupāda: Equal rights. The rascal father has left, and poor mother is carrying the burden.

Rāmeśvara: She chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa just by seeing us.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is no other way. We are the only shelter for these forlorn women.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to give them shelter.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, scientists have this theory called use and disuse. They would say that these birds here that have the long beaks for eating fish, originally, they did not have that, but after many, many millions of years of trying to catch fish, gradually their beaks became longer. And they would say that would be the origin of that species.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying that because the fish are trying to catch fish, therefore...

Rāmeśvara: The birds are trying to catch the fish.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore a beak comes out. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: No, no. That's not the theory. The theory is that the ones with the long beaks are able to catch the fish. Therefore, the other ones die off.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore they get the long beaks?

Bali-mardana: Just from mutation.

Rādhāvallabha: That's not. It's another theory.

Hṛdayānanda: Madness.

Candanācārya: It's another theory.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? So that's all right. If we are eager for Kṛṣṇa, we shall get Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it. Not only that, if he forgets that "I wanted the fish body, now how I have got it?" No, he forgets that he wanted it. So God reminds him that "You wanted this body; you have got this body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So God is very kind in all circumstances. Now we proposing to enjoy this material world under different situations, and God is helping us. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). You want to wander within this material world. That is your proposal. So, in order to enjoy this material world, you require different types of body. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet. It requires a different body. So yānti deva-vratā devān: (BG 9.25) this life, you aspire of going to the moon planet; next life, automatically you will go there. Why you are trying unnecessarily to go to the moon planet by sputnik? You'll go there. You just always think of the moon and you'll go to the moon. It is simple process. And by this way, you cannot go. Now, exactly in the same way that you get the body of a fish and you very easily, whole day and night, for so many years, you jump over in the sea. So moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. There is process how to go to moon planet. In the Bhāgavata it is stated. Those who are karma-kāṇḍīya, very, discharging the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, karma-kāṇḍa, they can go to the moon planet or sun planet. There are millions and trillions of planets they can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). The same thing. Suppose if you want to go to India, you prepare yourself, take the visa, the permit, the passport and necessary money and permission, so many things. You go there. Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Wherever you want to go, you have to prepare yourself, you have to make some endeavor. So why not make little endeavor for going back to home, back to Godhead? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). And if once you go to God, then you haven't got to come back again to accept this material body. So why not endeavor for this? This is intelligence. What is the benefit if I go to the moon planet? Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planet, Brahmaloka, you'll have to come back again. So why you should waste your time in this temporary thing? Go back to home, back to Godhead, where you'll get, awaken your eternal life, blissful life of knowledge. You go there. That is intelligence. If I have to endeavor, make preparation for going to the moon planet, so what is that moon planet? You can get duration of life, ten thousands of years. Just like we have got life here for one hundred years maximum, the moon planet, you can live there for ten thousands of years. But after that ten thousand years, you have to die. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). There is no excuse. So intelligent man, why he should endeavor for things which are temporary, maybe ten years or hundred years or ten thousand years? That is intelligence, that why should I try for temporary things? If there is possibility of my permanent life, blissful life, why not try? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Is that not? Find out. Yad gatvā na nivartante.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: This is nearby. (break) Today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the biggest magazine in the West United States is coming to try to get your interview at 10 o'clock, 10:30 this morning, something like that. It's called Los Angeles Magazine. It's for the West United States.

Prabhupāda: (break) And if we don't believe that they have gone to moon planet, they will reject us. They will immediately take as "Oh, these people are crazy." Even if you give sufficient reason or argument, they will not take it. That is their obstinacy.

Rāmeśvara: They're convinced by the photographs.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They have some photographs of the men in the spacesuits walking around on that other planet.

Kīrtanānanda: But they are convinced because the scientists have told them. They believe the scientists. They have faith, and the scientists can tell them anything, and they'll believe it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is.... That is the disease.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Ambarīṣa: They said they went fifteen million?

Hari-śauri: No, according to our calculation.... We agree with the figure 93,000,000, as approximate to the sun, but then our figure is 1,600,000 beyond it to the moon.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Ambarīṣa does not agree. (laughs)

Ambarīṣa: No, I agree. I wonder where they went? I think they went somewhere. Maybe not.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda said in Los Angeles it's very easy to simulate these moon landing pictures in a movie so that they're.... Just like there are so many films now where they show this.

Satsvarūpa: People in the classes, when the students say that that they do not see God, there is no proof for God, I give that argument you give. I say, "Well, I am a common layman, I have no proof that we've actually gone to the moon. At least I haven't gone to the moon. Show me right away that you can prove it me." They say, "Well, we have rocks, they brought back rocks." "I don't believe that they are from the moon." They are astonished that I..., we could actually doubt. (laughter)

Ambarīṣa: There is another planet that is close to the earth that they could have gone to, isn't there?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some petrol station in the sky?

Ambarīṣa and Satsvarūpa: I never heard that.

Hari-śauri: They've been planning all kinds of space laboratories and things like that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was some plan that there would be...

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Colossal woax. H-o-a-x. Find out this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: H?

Prabhupāda: H-o-a-x.

Hari-śauri: Hoax.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hoax! Joke.

Hari-śauri: Everything's just a bluff. Just a show.

Prabhupāda: Hoax, yes.

Hari-śauri: Rubber-stamping

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hoax means "to deceive, take in, sometimes by way of joke; humorous or mischievous deception."

Prabhupāda: Vibhrama, the Sanskrit is vibhrama-milita-kriyā. The ārambha, ārambha means endeavor. Very gorgeous. The result is sand and rocks. Going to the moon planet, the ārambha was so much expensive. And the result is to bring some sand and rocks. This is hoax. And another: parvatān muṣakodbhavaḥ. Hoax. There was a great advertisement that the Himalayan mountain is going to deliver a child. So people gathered on, to see, "Oh, such a big mountain. The child must be a very big child." So they went to see there, and they saw one rat is coming from the hole of.... A rat is coming. They expected another Himalayan mountain, and they saw from the holes, one rat is coming. This is going on. And they are satisfied. "Now the Himalaya has delivered the child." One rat. (laughs) This attempt is like Himalayas begetting a child. If some elephant would have come, it would have saved the..., not even elephant, one rat. And in English, another is, "Much ado about nothing."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Siddha means liberated. So one may become liberated even that.... but from that liberated position again he falls down unless he understands the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa. Aruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Unless he comes to the final understanding of the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, he'll fall down. Therefore so many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false, why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again? That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there. But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about. What do you think?

Brahmatīrtha: Well I couldn't say. They've been there they say.

Prabhupāda: They say, you believe, but we are common man, lay man, we say that if you have gone there, why you do not live there?

Brahmatīrtha: Yes, they just bring back rocks to show us, we have rocks here.

Prabhupāda: If there is rock, if there is sand, then why don't you colonise there? What is their answer? If there is same sand, same rock there, then why not... (break) ...some money and can bring some sand and bluff people that you have gone to moon planet. And people are satisfied, they're paying for another excursion to the Mars. This is going on. If you have gone there, there is land. If you fly in the sky and if you get a land then you can stay there. And because you cannot stay there, you come back again. So their... The Māyāvādīs position is there, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param, they merge into the impersonal Brahman but there is no place to stay, they come down again to this material world. You may go many thousands and millions of miles in the sky but you want to stay somewhere. But if you cannot get any place to stay then again you come to this Moscow and New York. So our enquiry is that if you have gone there, then why don't you stay there? What is the answer? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Maharaj?

Kīrtanānanda: They say the atmosphere is not suitable.

Prabhupāda: Then why rascal, you go there? (laughter) And spend so much money, rascal? You could not understand the atmosphere is not good for us, go there and spend so much money?

Brahmatīrtha: They impress the people.

Prabhupāda: That means they are bluffer and they bluffing the all fools and rascals. That's all. He could not understand before going there, before spending so much money the atmosphere is not good?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: But without personal, direct experience they...

Prabhupāda: For your direct whims you have to spend so much money? The people are so befooled they do not challenge them. Yes. Everyone knows, suppose one is coming to the western country, Europe and America, we knew it, that it is cold country, we must take proper dress. And we have come and we are staying. So this is knowledge. So if you do not know what is the atmosphere there, what do you spend so much money? And again you are going to the Mars. Are you fixed up what is the position there? Then you'll again bring something, some dust and rock. (laughter) This business will go on at the expense of the... You can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to us for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring some dust. That's ... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is struggling to construct a small residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done... Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that. They brought back Nixon. Why not stop this unnecessary expenditure? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Kīrtanānanda: It makes perfect sense, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. For nothing. And it is sure certainly you can write down, their Mars going also will be failure. Let it, you take in writing. I may die. I am old man. Take it down. It will be failure. I told ten years before that "It is childish." One press reporter inquired in San Francisco, what is your... "No, this is childish, wasting money." The reporter came to see me in Los Angeles. He remembered that. If you want to spend for nothing like that, you can do that. You have got money.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "What is play to you is death to us." And "Never mind. You die. We play." They have already spent so much money, moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock, satisfied. Again the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?

Rādhāvallabha: In Los Angeles papers they quoted you saying that, that they didn't go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: They quoted you as saying this in Los Angeles, in a newspaper. Also your Monday-Tuesday example, Sunday-Monday. They put that in the newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer that. The common sense. Can any one of you answer why Sunday first and Monday next? You are one of the scientists. Why don't you say? It is commonsense question, "Why Sunday first and next...?" All over the world. In the human society, everywhere you go, they will say Sunday first, Monday second. In India Ravivāra. Ravi. Ravi means sun. And Somavāra. Somavāra means Monday. The planetary system is so arranged, first of all sun, then moon. Then Mars, then Saturn, Saturday. Saturn is last. Even Svarūpa Dāmodara has not answered.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: They get big profit, and no one else does.

Prabhupāda: And they are going to the moon planet, Mars planet, and bring some dust.

Darby: They try to keep the people busy by showing them other planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Busy means they can show all these bluff busy programs to the rascals, not to the sane man.

Darby: Could you tell us a little about your spiritual master's life? I've never heard anything.

Prabhupāda: This is spiritual master, one who is representative of God. And one who speaks what God has said, then he's spiritual master.

Darby: But I have never heard anything of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta, and I wondered if you would tell me a little bit about him, if you would.

Prabhupāda: What shall I say? He was my spiritual master, and whatever he taught, we are speaking, that's all. We don't talk any nonsense.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have little models, Śrīla Prabhupāda, made out of plastic.

Prabhupāda: Ah, they are... Let them, we take them as rascals, that's all. Mūḍha.

Hari-śauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables... So how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?

Prabhupāda: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about moon planet ten years ago. It is childish, simply a waste of money and energy. I told this. Now it has proved.

Hari-śauri: There's no more interest in the moon at all.

Prabhupāda: No? Kīrtanānanda said "It is inhabitable." Ten years ago I said there's no use going there. It is childish, waste of money. But who hears about us? We know moon planet is inhabited by high-class living entities. (laughs) (sarcastically:) And they will allow these rascals to go by their machine.

Hari-śauri: When they originally started sending sputniks to the moon, they couldn't even land them properly. They would crash, they said that they were crash-landing spaceships into the moon's surface.

Prabhupāda: Crashed?

Hari-śauri: Crash-landing. The spaceship was supposed to just smash into the surface of the moon, like that.

Prabhupāda: They have never gone. Simply propaganda. Even they have gone, what is the result? Simply with big report that it is inhabitable. (Prabhupāda is eating something:) What is this fiber? Finding? What are other things are there in the... Hmm? What is this? (Hari-śauri laughs) Hmm? Do they add anything more? Something reddish there?

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Rākṣana: So it should be fairly easy for scientists to prove, Svarūpa Dāmodara and such, that.... I know they can't prove there is illumination caused by the deserts.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore it is doubtful whether they have gone there.

Devotee (1): Did they go to some other planet, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is different question. But they did not go to the moon planet.

Vipina: In the Bhāgavatam you also explain that the moon is about 1,600,000 miles away, so they couldn't have gone. It's beyond the sun, you said, Prabhupāda? (break)

Devotee (2): ...rectifying the senators and congressmen, is there much hope in talking to them?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The politicians in Washington. He would like to know if it's worthwhile talking to them, preaching to them.

Devotee (3): Much hope talking to people like that?

Prabhupāda: He wants to talk?

Devotee (3): Yes, I want to talk to them.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He wants to talk or you want to talk?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They've studied this very carefully.

Prabhupāda: All bluff.

Yadubara: According to the Bhāgavatam, the sun is also 93,000,000 miles away from the earth?

Prabhupāda: That is we shall see later on. It is about. The whole diameter is 4 billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle. It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But their scientists would be mad...

Prabhupāda: They are mad already, they're talking all nonsense. Already they're mad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're studying all the rocks from the moon.

Prabhupāda: Rascals. What they will get? They studied the rock. And they have found one crack in the whole moon planet, and there's no living being?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Imagining. "It may be like this. It may be like that." That is not knowledge. Doctor Frog is thinking of Atlantic ocean. He is within three feet of water. And how he can think of Atlantic Ocean? He may think, "It may be four feet, or five feet, or ten feet," and as soon as says 20 feet, he bursts. He's finished. Now you are finished.

Devotee (2): But they are so many... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's a good point.

Devotee (2): But they cheated when they said they went to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're cheaters, those who have got imperfect senses, they're all cheaters. If they say something, "Definitely this is like this," that is cheating.

Devotee (2): But how can so many cheat?

Prabhupāda: So many cheat?

Devotee (2): Together. Together they all cheat, they all say they went to the moon. One thousand scientists, all together in one room? They all say, "We agree, this, they went to the moon, here's the..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that if we can prove that the moon is beyond sun, then all these cheaters will be (indistinct), by one stroke.

Devotee (2): It's a great cheating effort, then. Must be a very great effort that they cheated everybody like this. Because so many scientists were fooled.

Prabhupāda: Scientists...

Devotee (2): They...

Prabhupāda: So many are... Because they're speculating. No valid knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: See..., you cannot see your father, that does not means there is no father who begot you. That is no... They cannot see, do they say like that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot see that, so they cannot prove by experiment, so...

Prabhupāda: What experiment?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just from experience also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They want to go and see for themselves, so they say they have gone to the moon planet, and they say we have not found life.

Prabhupāda: We say you have not gone. I have not seen you, that you have gone there; you say only. How can I believe?

Vipina: They show pictures and it was on the TV.

Prabhupāda: That is also, you have made picture. I have not gone and seen that. How can I believe you? The same argument. You say that you have gone to moon planet, but I have not seen that you have gone there. How can I believe you?

Vipina: Is there some other way we can argue with them, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no, let us, now just answer this question that you say you have not seen. I say, yes that's all right, because you did not see, therefore you don't believe. But I did not see you also that you have gone to moon planet. How can I believe you?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: How is it possible to deceive so many people?

Prabhupāda: Whether it is not possible or possible, but if you put this argument, that I have not seen, I can say that I have... (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Again he can make choice whether he goes to higher planetary system or lower planetary system or back to Godhead. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). He makes his choice. This is an opportunity. And the instruction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, whether you want again go to the higher planetary system, demigod's residence, yānti deva-vratā devān. Or you want to remain here, bhūtejyāḥ. Or you want to go down. Or you want to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your selection. Make your selection. So you can do. Either you go again to this human form of life. This opportunity is there. If you want you can go again to the higher planetary system, live there for so many years, and again when your resultant action of pious activities is finished, you again come and become a grass, and again begin... This is going on. But where is the science to understand how the process is going on? Therefore people are kept in ignorance. They have dismissed the idea, that there is no life after death, that's all. (guest leaving) There is no education. They are kept in ignorance. That is the problem, risky civilization, that people are kept in dark ignorance about the problems of the life. They do not know. They are struggling from the beginning of life, but they do not know what is the problem of life. Neither they have any information what are all these different planets, how they are being used, who are using them. They have no information. They are making a show of going to the moon planet, Mars planet, useless attempt. And presenting some photograph from Arizona. That is going on.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists at the present time, they say like this because their knowledge is simply illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Real knowledge is covered.

Prabhupāda: Just like this planetary system. So many planets are there. They do not know anything. And they are going to the Mars. They are going to the moon. All bluff. Two things unsolved. They do not know what is life and they do not know what are these planetary system. And still, they are speaking on these two subjects as authority. That is bluff.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we conclude that without understanding the existence of God, these two problems can never be answered.

Prabhupāda: Never be. You hear from God; then you have got perfect knowledge. And if you want to become scientist more than God, then you'll never know it. But their real propaganda is "There is no God." That is their real propaganda.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Who inspects?

Hari-śauri: Well they don't know who. But there's all kinds of things that they can't explain, but they don't release the information. What the scientists can't explain they won't tell anyone.

Rāmeśvara: After they claimed they have landed on the moon they announced that they wanted to build a gigantic dome on the moon's surface and within the dome they would have these pumps pumping air and in that way earth people could go to the moon and live there.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to their project? Stopped now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're going to do it on Mars instead. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...do it on the moon because they want to have people go there to drill into the surface of the moon to see if there are any valuable minerals or jewels underneath the surface. (pause) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a modern sculpture.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Passerby: Jaya! (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He says jaya also.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: How they have understood these things? From here?

Rāmeśvara: From here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it confirmed in Bhāgavata?

Prabhupāda: First thing is that it is full of life. Full of very, very intelligent demigods. They have never gone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If a devotee were to go to the moon, would he see all of these very intelligent demigods?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone would see them. (laughs) But nobody's gone.

Rāmeśvara: No, he would see the cities also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if someone actually went there, they would see all this life. It's not that you have to have a special vision to see it.

Prabhupāda: But you have to qualify yourself.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: All business is going on in Arizona.

Gurudāsa: You once said there is a gross and subtle part of the moon planet. Is that so? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: You said one who had qualification could get to the actual moon planet.

Prabhupāda: Moon is one. There are not so many moons. Moon is one. You can go to the moon. By ritualistic ceremony you can get there ten thousands of years life and enjoy. That is the heavenly planet.

Gurudāsa: So they have not at all gone there.

Prabhupāda: All false propaganda.

Hari-śauri: I think we should go back now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Planet is full of life. Jana-(indistinct). All kinds of animals are there.

Jagadīśa: Even in the Arizona desert there are different kinds of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be. (break) ...use of going to the Mars planet. What is their idea?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They constantly want to discover more and more so that they can claim that they are lords.

Prabhupāda: But what is that discovery?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like their so-called scientific way. They are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot because they are being controlled. So we should come to our senses that we cannot bring the laws of material nature under our control. We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be achieved when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Oh, the philosophy book will be called Dialectic Spiritualism? Ah, very good title.

Hari-śauri: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

Jayatīrtha: Very good title.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Let them do that, befool others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Because others, they are blind, this blind man, whatever he says, they believe. They will say "Perhaps ten millions of years ago there was life, perhaps." These things are going on. But we know every planet is full of living entity. There is regular life and there are streets. The streets are paved with pearls, corals, in Svargaloka. We have got information. And what is their information? Scratching some sand and bring it, that's all. As if sand is not available. But we give information there are planets where the pavements are with pearls. Go and bring some pearls. There is the ocean of milk. Bring some milk from there. And then we shall understand that you are making some research. Simply all over the universe dry sand? And here the population is increasing. Just see. We have to believe all this. Everything is by nature vacant and all people and animals are here. And we have to believe that. Hmm. Read it. They are exposing more and more about their nonsensical scientific inquiry.

Harikeśa: "Some are trying to reach the moon or other planets by some mechanical arrangement, for they are very anxious to get into such planets without doing good work. But it is not to happen. By the law of the Supreme, different places are meant for different grades of living beings according to the work they might have performed. By good work only, as prescribed in the scriptures, can one obtain birth in a good family, opulence, good education and good bodily features. We see also that even in this life one obtains a good education or money or bodily beauty. Similarly, in our next birth we get such desirable positions only by good work. Otherwise it would not so happen that two persons born in the same place at the same time are seen differently placed according to the previous work. But all such material positions are not permanent. The positions in the topmost Brahmaloka and in the lowest Pātāla are also changeable according to our own work. The philosophically inclined person must not be tempted by such changeable positions. He should try to get into the permanent life of bliss and knowledge where he will not be forced to come back again to the miserable material world, either in this or that planet. Miseries and mixed happiness are two features of material life, and they are obtained in Brahmaloka and in other lokas also. They are obtained in a life of the demigods and also in the life of the dogs and hogs. The miseries and mixed happiness of all living beings are only of different degree in quality, but no one is free from the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease. Similarly everyone has his destined happiness also. No one can get more or less of these things simply by personal endeavors. Even if they are obtained, they can be lost again. One should not, therefore, waste time with these flimsy things, but one should only endeavor to go back to Godhead. That should be the mission of everyone's life."

Prabhupāda: That is our position. We should not waste a single moment for so-called material things, happiness. Best save time and utilize it for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: There is regular class for everyone in the afternoon after prasādam.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. What they are saying now? (kīrtana heard from downstairs)

Bhagavān: Downstairs? "Haribol." People cannot understand how just by chanting enthusiastic kīrtana so many problems can be solved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they understand, all rascals? Wasting time. Going to the moon planet, going to the Mars planet. Why? What you will gain? Still they are going. Simply spending money. In Bengal it is called ostādi. Ostādi, in English? One who places himself as very intelligent leader. What is called in one word?

Bhagavān: Presumptuous?

Prabhupāda: Presumptions?

Bhagavān: Presumes he's something that he's...

Prabhupāda: No, it is a very nice word.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Hundreds years ago they could do without motorcar, and now they cannot live without a car. In this way, unnecessarily, they're increasing bodily or material necessities of life. This is recklessness. And the leaders will say, "Stop this nonsense, come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness," nobody will care. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is called blind leader leading blind followers. They do not know that both of them are bound up by the strict, stringent laws of nature. (break) ...how the laws of nature is working. They are completely in ignorance. They do not know. This is modern civilization. The laws of nature must work in its own way. You care for it or do not care for it, that is your business, but the laws of nature will work. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But these rascals, they do not know how the laws of nature will work. They are endeavoring artificially for, foolishly, to overcome the laws of nature. This is science, rascal's science, which is impossible, but they are trying. This is called rascaldom. Stupidity. Do the scientists not say like that? "We are trying to overcome." Rascal, you'll never be able to do that. But this rascaldom is going on. And they're applauding, "Oh, very good, very good, very good." "Oh, you are going to the moon planet." But after all endeavor, the grapes are sour: "It is not useful." That's all. You know the story? The jackal? He tried for the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When it was failure, he said, "Oh, it is useless. It is sour, no use." (laughter) So they are doing like that. The jackals are jumping, that's all. And we can see how these rascals are jumping uselessly. (laughter) So we are warning people not to follow these silly jackals. Be prudent and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will make your life successful.

Meeting with Italian Printer -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So, explain what is the goal.

Translator: What is our definition of liberty, freedom, spiritual?

Prabhupāda: Liberty means whatever you like, you can do. That is liberty. But at the present moment, you cannot do that. Just like you want to go to the moon planet, you cannot do that. But when you are spiritually liberated, you can go anywhere you like. Still, in this material world there is a planet which is called Siddhaloka. The inhabitants of that planet, they go from any planet to any planet. But still, they can not go to the spiritual world. But Nārada Muni, he can travel anywhere. He travels over all the spiritual world and material world. There is no restriction.

Translator: He says this freedom to go anywhere and everywhere...

Prabhupāda: This is one of the items, there are so many others.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work. They give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, is false, why does he come for social work? Just like these people going to the moon planet, but because they do not get any shelter, they take some sand and come back again. So what is the use of going there and spending so much money and come back with little sand, and satisfied, "Now we have studied"? Because they have no shelter. So the jñānīs, they have no shelter. Yes. They may go very high in the sky, but because they have no shelter they come back again. Punar muṣaka bhava, again become a mouse. So that is not jñānī, that is ajñānī. Jñānī is described here, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) is jñānī, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, "I have nothing to do with material world." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), there is no lamentation, there is no hankering. When he has attained that stage, brahma-bhūta stage, reality, then he is entrance in the bhakti. Otherwise a neophyte.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Now unless you enter into the kingdom of God, you'll not feel full satisfaction. Even if you go to the moon planet or Mars planet, there is no question of satisfaction.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: That is one thing they say, we must get to the moon first, for security.

Prabhupāda: That is now failure. Now they'll do it from Mars.

Hari-śauri: Not so much from there for security, it's just...

Parivrājakācārya: Their pride, one country, just like children playing, one can say "I can fly higher than you," and so "We can go to the moon before you can." For no reason than just to show they can do it.

Hari-śauri: It's an excuse to spend money. It's for fun.

Prabhupāda: They cannot settle up their misunderstanding here. By going to the moon planet, they'll do it.

Hari-śauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.

Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the beginning there was water, so the living entities were aquatics. Then, as the land came out, sthāvara, then plants, creepers, trees. So we have to pass through nine lakhs species of life in the water. Then trees, plants, two millions, twenty lakhs. In this way there are 8,400,000 species of life, and when you come to the human form of life, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), we get this form of life. Now we have to select parāṁ gatim or adho gatim. We are given the chance of human form of life for further advancement. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni

mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām

(BG 9.25)

So if you worship the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa-yānti deva-vratā devān—then you can go to the higher planetary system. They are trying to go to the moon planet. In that way it is not possible. You have to be qualified to go there. Not by machine, by force you can go there. That is not possible. Yānti deva-vratā devān. So... And also you can go, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You can go to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: The verse was

teṣāṁ padāghāta-rathāṇga-cūrṇitād

āyodhanād ulbaṇa utthitas tadā

reṇur diśaḥ khaṁ dyumaṇiṁ ca chādayan

nyavartatāsṛk-śrutibhiḥ pariplutāt

"Translation: Because of the impact on the ground of the legs of the demons and demigods and the wheels of the chariots, particles of dust flew violently into the sky and made a dust cloud that covered all directions of outer space, as far as the sun. But when the particles of dust were followed by drops of blood being sprinkled all over space, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky."

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: "Purport: The cloud of dust covered the entire horizon, but when drops of blood sprayed up as far as the sun, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky. A point to be observed here is that although the blood is stated to have reached the sun, it is not said to have reached the moon. Apparently, therefore, as stated elsewhere in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the sun, not the moon, is the planet nearest the earth. We have already discussed this point in many places. The sun is first, then the moon, then Mars, Jupiter and so on. The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So my reason is alright?

Hari-śauri: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: Modern scientists (Hindi—about challenge)

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Whatever Mars going? Finished.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They don't put anything about it now.

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Grapes are sour. Full of sand. (Hindi conversation) (break)

Devotee: ...thirty-six thousand students so it's in a very, very nice area, just for the type of people we'd like to reach, you know, intelligent. And also it's a... Actually what it is, it's a motel that's had its, you know, it has no business there. It's surrounded by other more expensive...

Prabhupāda: So there is one building within the land?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is full of dust, and we have to believe this.

Indian man: No.

Prabhupāda: Just see, a rascal scientist, "Full of dust."

Jagad-guru: Their brains are full of dust.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have never gone to the moon planet. Simply bluff. (break)

Devotee (3): ...this a reflection of the sun or is it his own light?

Prabhupāda: Own light.

Devotee (3): It comes also from the living entities on the moon?

Prabhupāda: No, there are fire, just like there is fire in the sun, but it is covered with ice. Therefore it is cooling.

Devotee (2): You mean ice is covering the fire?

Prabhupāda: Yes, surrounding, cold atmosphere. Something like... But it is fiery. And how they say that sun reflects some dust? Eh? How people believe it? (break) ...to be given in charge some plot of land to develop it.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Many.

Gargamuni: "But we don't find any."

Prabhupāda: Many. It is in the śāstra. "He was formerly like this, and now he has become this." There are many.

Gargamuni: Well, that's in the śāstra. They say now we want...

Prabhupāda: But śāstra is the proof. Our proof is śāstra. Your proof is your śāstra. Did you go to the moon planet or you believe the newspapers? Have you gone?

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: Then if you can believe newspaper, why shall not believe in the Veda, Vedānta?

Gargamuni: No, but one man has come.

Prabhupāda: So one man... You have not done. You have no experience. So one man you believe authority.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is working, false lord, who is working. Therefore he is under the laws of karma. He does not know. He does not know what is the goal of life, what to do. Nobody knows. He has to take direction.

Gargamuni: People are taking the authority of the scientists more than the creator.

Prabhupāda: What is this scientist? The scientists are rascals. These are the proofs. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but they do not know what is this. So many stars are hanging on my head. What are they? They cannot give any perfect information. They do not know. Two things they do not know. What is the meaning of science, real two things. One thing, how life come into existence, and how this planetary system is existing. They do not know. What is value of their science? There are so many things they do not know.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: I think we should make maybe a few plates just like they have shown the scientists, but a few plates of yourself with some quotations challenging these men.

Prabhupāda: Our another challenge is they have never gone to moon planet. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, that's a problem now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) See, sometimes when we give lectures... Some time ago we gave in Gainesville. We were talking about life and matter. Then some people came, and they asked that question about the moon thing. So we said we were working on it. And...

Prabhupāda: Another my challenge is that moon is beyond the sun. First planet is sun, and then moon. So if the sun is 93,000,000 miles and moon is above the sun 1,600,000, then how they can go to the moon planet in four days? It requires seven and a half months. That is my challenge.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: In one case they were reading Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the hellish planets. And they were reading to her, and they read how one who is too much attached to women, how they would have to embrace the form of a hot molten metal form of a woman. And so they were saying, "So do you think this is going to happen to us?" They were challenging like that, and she was saying, "Yes, actually you should be afraid." They were saying, "Actually..." They were going through each section of the Bhāgavatam and reading it and saying, "What about this? Do you really believe this? Do you really believe that the moon is farther away than the sun? (laughter) Do you really believe that they didn't go to the moon?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the moon is made of jewels.

Ādi-keśava: Oh, they ask all these questions.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That one was a headline.

Tripurāri: "Hare Kṛṣṇas think the moon is made of jewels."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They asked that to Balavanta on national television, to explain how it is possible.

Prabhupāda: So how to rectify it? They have not gone to the moon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Balavanta told them. He said, "You have your ideas, and we have ours. We're not stopping you from having yours, so why do you stop us from having ours? As far as we're concerned, we have as much evidence as you. Your authorities say you went, and our authorities say you didn't go. And anybody can make a movie to show that you went to Jupiter or Saturn or any other planet. Movies..., they can make King Kong. So we don't accept it, but we don't stop you from having your beliefs. But don't force us to say, 'Yes, you went to the moon.' " He answered nicely.

Prabhupāda: No, actually when there is some news about the moon planet, I personally did not go with him. So how shall I believe him? Come to practical point of view. I did not go. You publish something, news. Why I accept it? If you say that "I did not go," er, "I did not see," that is everything. We believe some paper, that's all. So why shall we not believe the Vedic literature?

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Story means it is story for you. Do you know the details of the whole universe, where, what is what? Can you do? You go and say there is no moonshine, but this rascal conclusion will be taken. Why there should be shine? From the sand such brilliant moonshine is coming? We have to believe that? So many books have said (indistinct) brilliant. Sun is brilliant. This... So you rascal, you can believe in that, but we'll not believe. You can say. What do you know about moon? It is all rascaldom. It may be good for rascals like you, not for intelligent man like me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That statement is always published immediately in newspapers. They love to publish that statement, that we say they've not gone to the moon. Immediately...

Prabhupāda: Question is how it is.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should push on these points.

Prabhupāda: Such a brilliant thing, soothing, and we'll take as...? We'll never take. Tell them. We see such a nice place. If you have gone there, why you have come back?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say there's nothing there but craters and barren land, like a desert, Mohave Desert.

Prabhupāda: Desert... Wherefrom the desert comes?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they're making stories about everything.

Prabhupāda: A small toy sputnik, background, a big picture, and photograph.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you see that article, "Moon Hoax?"

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our Back to Godhead?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, there's an article that was published in a paper in America called "Moon Hoax."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I didn't see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you that article.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Time Magazine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a weekly newspaper from Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: No, there are companies. They came to us. Your theory they'll present in a scientific way, so-called scientific way.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we have developed...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we also have a little chapter called "Intellectual Dishonesty Among the Scientists," and said, "Let's be honest about it. These things are not scientific."

Prabhupāda: This is intellectual dishonesty. They produce sputnik and going to the moon in the laboratory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And then it is exposed, "Moon Hoax." This is intellect... There was a... There were many films. One film was... What is that? A big monkey?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: King Kong.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) King Kong. They are producing chemical laboratory, yes, studio, and the monkey played...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they showed him going up and down the Empire State Building in a movie.

Prabhupāda: And it was so interesting, it gathered so many public to see.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also makes difficult for others to argue.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually if these two things, that life comes from life and this concept of the universe, two points are clear, then everything is taken care of.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Their false propaganda... (pause) (break) Scientists, they should seriously charge for the prestige of their Vedic knowledge. "Yes, my... Yes, sir, you are stating." What is this nonsense? "You are creating some rascals? Yes, my lord." In the name of education.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To find out some job to fill up the belly. Otherwise he'll starve if he doesn't get any job. And he's finding out guru. Job-guru. Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial... That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagrīva has changed so many things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He actually took out the whole part about their going to the moon being childish. He deleted the whole section.

Yaśodā-nandana: Also in the Bhāgavatam, where Prabhupāda was talking about Lord Buddha... You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not... So many times.

Prabhupāda: It is very serious situation. Rāmeśvara is in direct...

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything is killed. "Fittest." Nobody is fittest in this world. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). Everyone is asat. He'll not exist. That is statement of the... Bhāgavata never said, "Here is a person or animal, fittest." That is not Bhāgavata. Teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. The rascal is so mad that everything will be finished, and he is talking of "fittest." All theory, no practical. Unnecessarily spent millions and millions of dollars, that "We have gone to moon." Why? Why this bogus propaganda? What is the value? And they take pride. Now we are drawing picture how many miles away. It is impossible to find out. And why they make this bogus propaganda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's totally impossible they went to the moon.

Prabhupāda: No, they have not gone, but still, they are making such a big propaganda. What is the mentality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters, sense gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He'll do something wonderful in arts. Kṛṣṇa will be... No complaint. All right. Jaya.

Devotees: (obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Vedic planetarium.

Bhakti-Prema: Next step will be planetary system.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Bhakti-Prema: The third planetary system, above Mount Meru.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. You have taken lunch?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...there is sun, and above that, there is moon. And they are going to moon. They are going nowhere, simply taking laboratory photo, studio photo, and cheating. Why this cheating can go on? You do not know. That's all. Who is insisting that "We must know"? (end)

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he went to purchase something from a grocer. The grocer asked him, "Why you are shaven-headed?" "Oh, such person has..., is now dead."

Trivikrama: Sargal Singh?

Prabhupāda: No, I'll come to that. So the grocer also thought, "Now I also should shave." Something saying like that. Then another man met him. He also said. He also said. Then at last, one intelligent man, he asked, "Who is this man?" Then again the news come back through the paramparā, (laughter) yes, who is this man. Then he called the man, first, who said. He was a dhobi, and his ass was dead. The ass was dead, so hearing, it has gone so far. The other men... The unintelligent persons are like that. They do not know, inquire what is the real thing. Just like twenty years ago I said, "This is all nonsense, moon-going." And now they are coming: "Oh, it is hoax." So that is the difference. Twenty years before and "This is all childish waste of money. This rascal will never be able to go to the moon." And now they are coming. That is the difference. I said from common sense. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. And we read in the Bhāgavatam that to go to the moon planet, one has to execute such yajñas, karma-kāṇḍa. We understand from śāstra. And how this rascal with a machine will go there? That is a common sense. But they do not believe in the words of the śāstra. Rascals, they were bluffed and they believe. Śāstra-cakṣus. Your eyes should be through the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma..., na siddhiṁ sa... (BG 16.23). We believe in this. Therefore I said twenty years before. That is the difference. We take the words of śāstra, words of Kṛṣṇa, ultimate. That's all. So we have no difficulty. They do not believe in śāstra. They do not believe in Kṛṣṇa. So they were bluffed. That is the difference. We have... I started this movement. It is not manufactured by me. Take the words of authorities and spread. There is no adulteration. There is no alteration. That is... Mahājano yena gataḥ... (end)

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's amazing how Kṛṣṇa has made each universe. It's just like all the fruits. When you get a fruit, it's protected by a skin. This universe is very much protected, first by uninhabited land, then by huge mountain, then by golden land. And then only in the center of these dvīpas there are all the inhabitants and all the activities are going on, very much protected.

Prabhupāda: And they are going to the moon. (devotees laugh) I... So far I remember, the moon is also like the sun, that it is fire blazing, but it is surrounded by a cool atmosphere. Therefore it is soothing. I think there is such description.

Bhakti-prema: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says the moon is also (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How far do they, the scientists, say the moon is from the earth? How long? I have a book which says it, and I'm bringing this book. It's very... You'll see it here.

Bhakti-prema: Twenty-four lakhs miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-four lakhs miles, the scientists say?

Bhakti-prema: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do the scientists say? How...?

Prabhupāda: Two lakhs.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Probably." Everything "probably."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "There is thick dust covering and no evidence to suggest that the moon has ever supported life." In that newspaper article the man who is exposing them said—because they say it is covered by dust—"How is it that no dust is shown on the astronauts' suits when they walked around?" He says, "If there's such a thick dust, then, when the rocket landed, it would have made a pocket within that dust." He says, "But there's no crater around the rocket. Then how it is possible that these things are like that?" 'Cause actually they forgot. When they were making the stage setting in Arizona, they forgot these things.

Yaśodā-nandana: One argument Your Divine Grace gave in 1971 was that if they went to the moon and they found it was rock, how do they explain the moon is so shiny and gives such a cooling effect? They cannot explain that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at the earth. Now, this is a real question that we still have to answer. They picture the earth round, and we say, no. Bhū-maṇḍala is like a lotus, like this, and the earth is only one part of one island in Bhū-maṇḍala, and it's not, you know, it's not round(?). It doesn't look like that. And all the pictures they take of the earth when they go up in their satellites show round. And we're going to tell them that it's not. This is a very tricky question. In other words, if this is the picture of the world, like this, and we say that... If we take an airplane from here, from Los Angeles. Now, supposing we go to India, which is here. So there's two ways to go. One way, you can go like this, and the other way, you can go like that. But if the earth is not a round globe, then how is it sometimes people go from Los Angeles via Hawaii to Japan and then India? So we can't figure this out. We have experience, those of us who have flown, that actually the plane went from Los Angeles to Hawaii to Tokyo to Hong Kong and then to India. So it doesn't work out in our maps so far, right? We can't figure it out. This thing has to be very complete in its answers. Otherwise everyone will laugh at us. We can't leave any loopholes.

Prabhupāda: So are you thinking on this?

Bhakti-prema: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Find out from our side, according to Bhāgavatam.

Bhakti-prema: Scientists are lacking in the main points.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They "probably," so many theories.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: He wants every village like that, to be...

Prabhupāda: That can be done very easily. It can be done very easily, provided government wants. And we can help. We have to follow simply the Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not follow. They manufacture their own interpretation. That is the difficulty. Otherwise the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of happy life and entrance, matriculation, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, graduate, and then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, postgraduate. We are therefore presenting three books. So if we follow, our life is successful. But you don't follow. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is so strong that untruthful things, we take it as truthful. Just like the modern scientists. These rascals, he could not, they cannot, they will never be able to produce life. Still, they are busy: "Yes, we will do. We shall do." The whole world is full of rascals. What they cannot do, what they could not do, what they'll never be able to do... Still, they will persist. This is the difficulty. They have never gone to moon planet, their aeroplane. They cannot go anywhere. You have got plane. They are conditioned. And they are thinking, "We are free." Just like an animal is bound up in a place, and he's going round, here and here. He's thinking the world is round. The world is round. He does not accept that "I am conditioned." They have got now aeroplane, jet plane and so many. Go anywhere. They cannot go. Still, they are proud: "We have measured." This dog's obstinacy of this modern world has killed the whole civilization.

Mr. Myer: This is what Prime Minister's saying, that in India we have more unemployed people although we are attracted to machines. And if we go back to villages and...

Prabhupāda: But he says. When he shall do? Says only.

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the proof that you produce life from chemicals? We say it cannot be, and they say, "Yes, it is..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything in life comes from some other life.

Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Post-dated check.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So something's wrong with their instrument. When they fly from Los Angeles and their compass...

Prabhupāda: Nothing is wrong. From their estimate it is all right. But there is superior power.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.

Prabhupāda: Why if one is settled up that he's a rascal, we should not hear anything. And why not? He has not gone to the moon. They are insisting, "Yes, we have gone," by false propaganda. Why the one who makes false propaganda and one who says nonsense, we have to believe? Immediately, whatever he says, reject. There's no argument. You have proved yourself rascal so we don't accept any statement. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I'm just trying to think of the description of Jambūdvīpa.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you say. But be aware you are rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have the practical task of...

Prabhupāda: No test.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: If this is the background I can give a lot of material. But they want logic.

Prabhupāda: Where is the logic?

Yaśodā-nandana: I don't want any logic. The scientists will come to the planetarium and ask...

Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I calculated sixteen thousand miles per second, so far I remember.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think that's right.

Prabhupāda: And it is Sūryaloka. It has population.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All of the personalities there have very dazzling bodies.

Prabhupāda: Fiery body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With the help of this planetarium, people will actually be able to go to the moon for the first time, at least by their minds. There was such a hoax that I heard they were even selling tickets to go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you're feeling tired, maybe you'd like to take a little rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's still early now.

Prabhupāda: Hm. I have been taking rest in... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all rascals and they're all crazy.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs. They don't know what is what. They don't know what is good for them. If they have their choice, they won't immediately talk with a devotee. But we are like the doctors. We don't consider what the patient says. Somehow we have to administer the medicine because we know it will be good for them. There's a letter that just came from Satsvarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Have my keys...

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This argument is called Pretitio Principial logic. You can see the dictionary, what is the meaning, pretitio.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is it called, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Prititio Principial. So what the public said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I just finish reading his article, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.' Everyone knows that the first thing scientists did when discovering atomic energy was to manufacture the atom bomb and promptly drop two of them on Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, thus annihilating millions of innocent victims in a flash. It is certainly marvelous. (Prabhupāda and Tamāla chuckling) At the expense of untold billions of dollars and years of research and hard labor, scientists have gone to the moon, snapped a few blurry photos, and brought back a handful of rocks, declared to the world that 'There was nothing there, so now we will try to go to Mars.' What is so marvelous about this? It is completely lunacy, if anything. On our earthly planet, millions of people are without food, shelter, and simple education. Instead of spending billions of dollars to bring rocks from the moon, science would be more credible if they would rather spend the hard-earned taxpayer's money for improving his own lot on earth. Rocks are rocks, whether from the Moon, from Mars or from China. Or is it that science can turn the rocks into bread and cheese by applying some chemicals? Now, to get to the main article, in answer to Kovoor's question of what objective evidence I have made the fantastic statement that life comes from life and matter also comes from life, and that there is soul, rebirth of the soul, and Supreme Soul, God, they say fight fire with fire, and so I have taken advantage of three scientists who happen to be members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and, I dare say, more qualified than the so-called Dr. Kovoor, who is only an honorary doctor..."

Prabhupāda: Ah!

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gurukṛpā:. If they are aware... They are not really aware of the actual suffering that they're causing the animals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think the animals don't have any feelings or soul.

Prabhupāda: No, they think in so many way, nonsense rascals. What is the value of their thinking? Rascals, all number one rascals. They say, "Why do you...?" But they, how they can believe? Their whole life is belief, no factual knowledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How they will believe that man didn't go to the moon? When Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote that in Easy Journey, Hayagrīva took it out of the book, saying that "How will they believe this?"

Prabhupāda: Believe. "I believe." You can say also, "I believe." You can say, "I believe." Where is the standard?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is their life. "I believe." Whatever he believes, that's all right. This is going on.

Gurukṛpā: The difficulty is they have no intelligence to understand what they are doing. But if... By mass prasādam distribution they will get intelligence to see the serious sins they are doing.

Prabhupāda: Whole thing is "I believe," "Unless I believe..." Anyone can believe something. Is that knowledge?