Expressions researched:
"Kali goddess"
|"Kali, goddess"
|"goddess Bhadra Kali"
|"goddess Durga or Kali"
|"goddess Durga, Kali"
|"goddess Durga, and Kali"
|"goddess Kali"
|"goddess like Maha-kali"
|"goddess of Kali"
Prabhupāda: ...before me never dared to ask people to stop meat-eating. Rather, they learned how to eat meat. Vivekananda was eighty years ago, he came. He learned how to eat meat. Instead of teaching Vedānta, he learned how to eat meat.
Jayatīrtha: In the Vedānta Society temple in Santa Barbara, they were offering chicken soup...
Prabhupāda: Prasādam.
Jayatīrtha: ...to the Goddess Kālī an offering, and then they were distributing it as prasādam.
Prabhupāda: In the name of Vedānta.
Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ramakrishna was a first-class Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: Which Ramakrishna?
Prabhupāda: This Ramakrishna Mission.
Dr. Patel: You are a guru. So I don't want to contradict. I am going. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Then you have got some selection of your own.
Dr. Patel: I have no selection.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: I have to tell the truth. You may like or not like. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I have to say the truth. I am saying all over the world.
Dr. Patel: That may be a truth, but all are not like that.
Prabhupāda: He was a pākā Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: That may be a truth...
Prabhupāda: I am still repeating. Repeating.
Dr. Patel: Let us go off.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was a pākā Māyāvādī. Just like... Just see that he said that he is a worshiper of goddess Kālī. Is it not?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Eh? And he became God. By worshiping Kālī. Just see how much Māyāvādī he is. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "Anyone who is worshiping other demigods, his intelligence is lost." Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. And this man says that worshiping a demigod, goddess Kālī, he became God. Just see. How much great Māyāvādī he is! Where is the śāstra, where is in the śāstra, Vedic śāstra, that one becomes God by worshiping goddess Kālī?
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit): Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati.
Prabhupāda: Is there any evidence? There may...
Dr. Patel: Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati.
Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is another thing. Just like I gave the example: if you associate with fire, you also become fire. That is another thing, brahma-vid. But here is no question of brahma-vid. Ignorance. Ignorance. Because brahma-vid, the Brahman, Supreme Brahman, says that "Those who are worshiper of demigods, they have lost their intelligence." So how he becomes...? A man who has lost his intelligence, how he can become brahma-vid?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ramakrishna was a first-class Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: Which Ramakrishna?
Prabhupāda: This Ramakrishna Mission.
Dr. Patel: You are a guru. So I don't want to contradict. I am going. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Then you have got some selection of your own.
Dr. Patel: I have no selection.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: I have to tell the truth. You may like or not like. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I have to say the truth. I am saying all over the world.
Dr. Patel: That may be a truth, but all are not like that.
Prabhupāda: He was a pākā Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: That may be a truth...
Prabhupāda: I am still repeating. Repeating.
Dr. Patel: Let us go off.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was a pākā Māyāvādī. Just like... Just see that he said that he is a worshiper of goddess Kālī. Is it not?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Eh? And he became God. By worshiping Kālī. Just see how much Māyāvādī he is. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "Anyone who is worshiping other demigods, his intelligence is lost." Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. And this man says that worshiping a demigod, goddess Kālī, he became God. Just see. How much great Māyāvādī he is! Where is the śāstra, where is in the śāstra, Vedic śāstra, that one becomes God by worshiping goddess Kālī?
Prabhupāda: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the śūdras or the kṣatriyas... Just like kṣatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.
Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.
Hṛdayānanda: But never the cow.
Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition.
Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.
Guest: Yes. And, uh, some, there's a few similarities in the religion, I think, because they have a fearful goddess like Mahā-kālī.
Prabhupāda: Worship Mahā-kālī?
Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes, very fearful, you know. She's, er, her head comes from two serpent's heads.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: You know, two serpent's heads are together like this, making her face, and then she wears a skirt of skulls.
Prabhupāda: Oh, skulls.
Guest: Skulls.
Prabhupāda: They're practicing Mahā-kālī.
Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's... You see? He does not know what is the scheme of Vedas. You cannot stop meat-eating all of a sudden. But you can raise some restriction. These rascals who are meat-eaters, if you say, "Don't eat meat," he'll never do that. Therefore, "Yes, you can eat meat, just after offering to the goddess Kālī," and in this way, that means, once in the month, that means restricted. Restricted. So, Vedas means they're taking gradually, not that, like a foolish, "You don't do this." You cannot do that. That is Vedic authority.
Prabhupāda: But I cannot say to stop animal sacrifice before the deity Goddess Kālī. That I cannot say. I cannot disobey. I may not take it.
Dr. Patel: That is what he means to say, but...
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that I reject...
Dr. Patel: "My followers do not take meat even kālī-yajña."
Prabhupāda: You cannot dictate on the Vedic authority. Veda...
Dr. Patel: Kālī temple, Kālī temple is not Vedic, but it is Tantric, Tantric.
Prabhupāda: That you say, that you say. Not tantra. Tantra is also within the Vedas. Just like we have got Nārada Pañcarātra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... Mām... This meaning, the flesh, is Sanskrit word is māṁsa. Mām. Mām means "me." And sa means "he." "I am killing this animal. I am eating. And he'll kill me and eat." This word is reminding that "You are killing this animal, and eating. So this animal will kill you and eat you." This is the meaning of māṁ sa. Māṁ sa khādati iti māṁsa. "He'll be given the opportunity to kill you." And when the animal is sacrificed before the goddess Kālī, this mantra is cited to the ear of the animal that "You are giving your life before goddess Kālī. So next life you are getting the chance of human being." So he's promoted. Because he is being killed before the deity, goddess Kālī, so he is elevated, and he's given the chance that "This man will become animal, and you'll kill him." So after understanding this mantra, who will be ready to kill another animal? This is the mantra. While sacrificing an animal, this is the mantra. The priest will say in the ear that "You, Mr. Goat, you are being killed before this goddess of Kālī. So your benediction is that you have to undergo so many lives before coming to the human form of life, but because you are sacrificing, as a reward for this, you get immediately human life." So he's not loser. "And this man who is killing you, he'll become a goat like you, and you have the right to kill him." This is mantra.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of goddess Kālī. So that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of (life), you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dāna, mantra and everything. (Break) ...regulation that... that is not cow. An insignificant animal, goat... (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: "Yes, homosex is all right." Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You'll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kālī that "We are eating Mother Kali's prasāda." That's it. This is going on.
Brahmānanda: Kali eats meat.
Prabhupāda: Kali does not eat meat, but it is the śāstra's injunction that those who are unable to give up meat-eating, they may sacrifice one goat, not cow, one small animal before the goddess Kali, on amāvāsya (new moon) day, night, not day, and they can eat it.
Pañcadraviḍa: If it's offered, though, who accepts it? Whose prasādam is it? Who takes it?
Prabhupāda: The prasādam is not... That meat is not taken by Kali, but it is taken by the witches and others, associates of Kali.
Brahmānanda: In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you write that goddess Kali takes the prasādam of her husband, Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to take philosophy from the ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. They are not ācāryas, neither they follow the ācāryas. They do not follow any ācāryas, either Śaṅkarācārya or Madhvācārya or Rāmānujācārya. They have their own philosophy. Ācārya, the Ramakrishna, he used to worship Goddess Kali, but even they do not do that. Eh?
Brahmānanda: No. They don't even have deity worship even to Goddess Kali. They are so advanced...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So where they stand? They have no platform.
Prabhupāda: But without going through the literature, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, nobody can understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? You mention in your book that recently they have begun some demigod worship in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not recently. Since very long time. These gosvāmīs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Caste gosvāmīs. But originally this was not the fact.
Prabhupāda: Originally there was Rūpa Gosvāmī. Now they are imitating. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you get it sacrificed before Goddess Kali." But this is not meant for the high-class brāhmaṇa. This is meant for the third-class dvija. But still, he is induced to accept some authority. In this way there are Purāṇas. Somebody is recommended to worship Lord Śiva, somebody is recommended to worship Kali, Durga, Sarasvatī, many demigods. But Nārada Muni chastised his disciple that "You have done wrong. Why you have recommended all these things?" Jugupsitam. That is said there, that "People will take your authority, and they will be engaged in worshiping different demigods." Actually that is not required. Then he compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, only the Supreme Lord worshiped. The same thing as Kṛṣṇa explained, mam ekam. That is success. So Vyāsadeva was very much...
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā. Beginning, śraddhā. Then, when he is advanced, then he becomes fixed up. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is protecting me." (break) ...that here is some goddess Kali, and nobody is living here.
Harikeśa: No, and then they worship in that temple. That's a temple there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. No, the road is, er, gate is closed. (break) People in general, they take that "There is no God, and if there is God, He is now dead." This is general impression.
Prabhupāda: That is gradually. Gradually. If he cannot give up meat-eating, so, "All right, don't eat cows' flesh. You eat hogs. That's all." But the real purpose is to stop meat-eating. And that is also under restriction. "You can eat one goat. Sacrifice it before Goddess Kālī under such and such rules and regulation. Then you take one piece of meat at night." So any sensible man—"Why I should undergo such rules and regulation for eating a little piece of meat? Better give it up." That is the idea. It is not that encouraging him. What is the meaning of encouraging? He is already eating meat? Why śāstra should... The real way, nivṛtteḥ... Pravṛttir eṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā-phalam. The pravṛtti, the inclination, is there. Now train him to give it up. That is wanted. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1), that "Tapasya is your business." Tapo divyam. The human life is for tapasya-athāto brahma jijñāsā—only discussion on Brahman, to understand Brahman, and tapasya. Therefore you find in India so many saintly persons, highly educated brāhmaṇas, high literature, everything.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Vedic literature, even those who are meat-eaters, they are advised to sacrifice an animal before the deity Goddess Kālī, not purchased from the slaughterhouse. That is a kind of yajña, paśumedha-yajña. That is for low-class men. But still, because he's performing the yajña, he's less sinful.
Prabhupāda: That was not killing. So instead of wasting his time, he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." Here is... You cannot open slaughterhouse, giving reference to the Vedas or any sacrifice, either in the Muhammadans, Jews and everyone. They also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It is not that they recommend open slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing; there will be a class of men who'll eat meat. To give them some concession, so this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal-eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this Goddess Kālī worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, on the dark moon night, one day in a month, and the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he automatically will give it up. "So much botheration. Better give it up." Actually denies. "Yes, you can eat once in a month and at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it that "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."
Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea and people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. (laughs) He was very kind upon me. And whatever is being done by his blessing, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... (break) That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat—to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this goddess Kālī-worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he'll automatically give it up. "So much botheration, better give it up." Actually deny. "Yes, you can eat once in a month at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal..." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it, "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written. Not only that. Nowadays somebody has accused that even in his old age he was having sex with young girls. I do not know. But it is a fact, when he was coming in the meeting he would touch two young girls, granddaughter and granddaughter-in-law, and then come in the meeting. I have seen. One gentleman in our, the Mullick's Thakur Badhi, when we were there. He was attorney. So when there was some function, so all neighboring men were invited. So he was also invited. He would come with at least three, four prostitutes. And he was old man, blind. Asutosh Bhan. He became very rich man by cunning lawyer. He was a lawyer. So he would take a credit that "When I go to a friend's house to keep my invitation, I take some three, four prostitute and flatterer. Then..." And he'd be received very nicely. We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God? Senseless God? And God's definition is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. God means full in knowledge. And a man who has no sense, he has become God? From logic. Jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva. God means he has got full knowledge. And this man is senseless and he has become God. Logic, how you can defy? And they're accepting: "Ramakrishna is God." How you defend it? I am giving this logic. Defend.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, they have found gigantic tunnels in South America.
Prabhupāda: Rāmacandra was taken from here to there to be sacrificed before goddess Kālī.
Pañcadraviḍa: We've got about seventeen temples down there. In Central America.
Hṛdayānanda: There are more temples in Latin American than Europe. We also defeated them in book distribution.
Prabhupāda: The Mexicans are exactly like Indian.
Karttikeya Mahadevia: Yes. Mexico, Peru, and Chile—these are three altogether.
Hṛdayānanda: They are very much attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. And they have no doubt about Deity worship. By their culture they are accustomed to worshiping deity forms. So they like very much Deities... Everything they like—kīrtana, Deity worship, prasāda.
Prabhupāda: So revive it.
Pañcadraviḍa: And they are not so intelligent as others.
Karttikeya Mahadevia: That makes it easier for us.
Hṛdayānanda: They do not have so much tendency for speculation like Americans or Europeans. They do not argue very much philosophically. They like our philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. Practically everyone believes in reincarnation, the soul's changing body. Practically no one will argue these things.
Prabhupāda: So the brāhmaṇas will regularly come, worship Viśvakarmā or demigods. Viśvakarmā is the engineer of the demigods. Some demigod also they will worship. Even the butcher will worship goddess Kālī, then he will apply the knife to the throat of the animal. Even the butcher. Recognition of higher authority.
Regarding Bengalis. I think it will be difficult for them to join us because we are pure Vaisnavas. The Bengalis are generally worshipers of Goddess Kali for facility of eating meat and fish. But some of them may join us in minority. Indians other than the Bengalis may join us in large numbers because most of them are vegetarians. Any way do not disturb them or any one about their personal affairs but give every one the chance of joining us in Kirtana that will pave the path of Krishna Consciousness. You are intelligent enough and I hope you will understand me right.
Lord Caitanya propagated worship of Krishna; Krishna propagated that one should worship Him, Krishna; how is it that this Rama-Krishna worships the material goddess Kali? Ask the question. So, such rascaldom is going on all over the world.
There is no evidence in the Vedic literatures that a common unintelligent person by worshiping a demigoddess Kali can become an incarnation of Godhead. The goddess Kali is divine mother for the conditioned souls, not for the liberated souls. There is no direction in the Vedic literatures that one can become liberated even by worshiping the goddess Kali. She is superintendent of the prison house known as material world. One can derive some material facilities by worshiping Kali or Durga, but nobody can become liberated by worshiping such demigoddesses, so what to speak of becoming incarnation of Godhead. So the propaganda that Ramakrsna became incarnation of God by worshiping Kali is not accepted by any authorized acharya and therefore it is a bogus propaganda.
| Page Title: | Goddess Kali (Conv. and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Marc |
| Created: | 16 of Mar, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=25, Let=3 |
| No. of Quotes: | 28 |