Prabhupāda: You must know what is that test. Credential. He must present credential. Just like when some ambassador comes to a foreign country, there is a ceremony that that ambassador must be recognized by the governor or the governor-general in that state, and he has to place his credentials, similarly, anybody is claiming as God, he has to place his credentials. And what is that credential? The test is there in the Upaniṣad, in the Bhagavad-gītā and so many, all literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedānta-sūtra, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam first it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ, svarāṭ means fully independent. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. The Supreme Truth, fully independent. We are not fully independent. And just now, if I feel a little toothache, I will have to go to a doctor. So how can I claim that I am God? God's first qualification is fully independent, svarāṭ. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means fully cognizant of everything. What is that?
Fully independent (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"full independence"
|"full independent"
|"full independently"
|"fully independent"
|"independently full"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that He does not do. Otherwise, otherwise, there is no meaning of being part and parcel of God. God is fully independent, and we are minute part of God. Therefore we have got independence. That independence is minute, but there is. So if God interferes with your independence, then you are no longer part and parcel of God. Therefore God says that "You do this." Now, I misuse my independence. I do not do it. Therefore I am bad.
Mr. Wadell: Our positions do not differ on this point. We think exactly the same.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not do it. Just like your father says, "My dear son, do like this," but you disobey. Therefore you are bad son. So my badness is creation of my misuse of independence.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā... Sahaj means easy. Easy-going. They will smoke cigarette at the same time they will play rasa-līlā. This is sahajiyā. This is sahajiyā. They will do all nonsense; still, they will become God, imitation of God.
Yadubara: "Nārada Muni wanted to impress upon people in general that Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. His activities such as His appearance..." (break)
Prabhupāda: He played also. (Hindi) We used to say chor chor kela: "Catch up the feet." (Hindi) (break) ...and wonderful things, as they are mentioned, they were all manufactured by the demons.
Dr. Patel: māyā.
Prabhupāda: That is answered, sva-rāṭ. "Independent." That is God.
O'Grady: Independ...?
Prabhupāda: Independent. He is fully independent. He does not require to take lessons from anyone. That is God. That is God. If anyone requires to take lesson from other, he is not God. Who does not require to take lesson from other, that is God.
O'Grady: Where does human love enter into it?
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Because love is also coming from God. So we are being part and parcel of God, there is part and parcel manifestation of love because the original love is there in God. Because nothing can exist. Nothing can exist if it is not in God.
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully. So I do not know what is going in within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything, nook and corner of the whole universe. But if we compare ourself with God, that is impossible, because naturally we get knowledge from others, we may question, "Wherefrom God got knowledge?" Therefore it is stated there, svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else. He's independently full of knowledge.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor: If God has not created us imperfect?
Prabhupāda: No, God has created perfect, but you have become imperfect by misusing your independence. God is fully independent. You are part and parcel of God. Therefore you have got that quality, independence. When you misuse that, you become bad; when you use it properly, you remain good.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Yes. How do we make ourselves bad?
Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bible is there: "You become good like this." If you don't do, then you become bad. The Bible says that "Thou shall not kill." If you don't kill, then you are good. If you kill, you are bad.
Prabhupāda: That depends on God. God is fully independent. He may not like. You cannot force Him. But it is our duty to request Him. You cannot force Him. If He likes... If He does not like, that is His will, because He is the supreme will. But God likes. If a devotee requests Him something, He likes to accept. That is God's mercy. He takes the devotee's prayer very seriously. Therefore our another process is to take the shelter of a devotee first. Because even one is inferior, not to be accept by God, but if a devotee requests, "God, kindly accept this fellow," God accepts. Mercy of saintly... Kṛpā-siddha. The Sanskrit word is kṛpā-siddha. He becomes perfect by the mercy of devotee.
Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.
Dr. John Mize: But Kṛṣṇa has no tendency to fall, whereas we do.
Prabhupāda: No. Because Kṛṣṇa is God. Therefore He is all good. Even He falls down, to our estimation, it is not fall down. (break) ...cannot judge God. If we are devotee, in all circumstances we shall glorify God, "You are all-good." That is devotee. You cannot criticize God, "Oh, You are doing such thing," no.
Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult.
Acyutānanda: It is not difficult. They don't want to understand.
Prabhupāda: Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel.
Acyutānanda: No, their idea is that they want to blame God for their predicament, like a bad child, you know, says, "Well you made me do it."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sudāmā: "What can I do?"
Prabhupāda: No, they say, "Why you gave me birth?" They say like that.
Prabhupāda: That is our foolishness, that we cannot understand. That is our foolishness. How you can understand Kṛṣṇa's activities?
Rāmeśvara: That's the only answer.
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa is doing.... You are little independent, but He is fully independent. He knows everything. His independence is not under condition; your independence is under condition. If you misuse your independence, you'll suffer.
Rāmeśvara: His argument is that "I should never be allowed to misuse my independence."
Hari-śauri: There's no question of independence then.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.
Hṛdayānanda: (reading:) "This material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the Mādhyandināyana-śruti: sa vā eṣa brahma-niṣṭhā idaṁ śarīraṁ martyam atisṛjya brahmābhisampadya brahmaṇā paśyati brahmaṇā śṛṇoti brahmaṇaivedaṁ sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tathā kuru. That independence you have got. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). They are thinking, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is also human being like me. Why shall I surrender to Him?" They are mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Then remain a rascal. What can be done? We have got little independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent.
Prabhupāda: You have got independence to misuse your independence. That independence you have got. You have been given intelligence. Now you have got, because you have got intelligence, little independence, you can misuse that. Just like you are all my secretaries. So I give you some independence. You can misuse it. So that misuse is wrong. Then you'll become unhappy. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Says. He doesn't force you—you must do it. You do it. That means independence. Now it is your choice. You have got independence of misusing it. So independence is a quality inherent in living beings, because he's part and parcel of God. The quality of the father is inherited by the son, even physically. Similarly, you have..., God is fully independent, you have got little touch of independence. Now that independence is properly utilized when you carry out the order of God. That is proper.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore they asked you, "your city," "his city," "will build a center, fantastic..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, no one's going to give it any credence.
Prabhupāda: It is most objectionable article. So you are doing things very, full independently. This is not very good. The impression will be that "Surabhī Swami has come to construct this city. He is cheating," like that, as if everything doing, you are the all and all. That's... No other. And "the temple will be Kṛṣṇa." Just show him, "the temple of Kṛṣṇa." You do not know what is, the temple will be? Clearly mentioned. They have also manufactured? They have manufactured? What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The center of the planetarium will be the temple of Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Just see. It is their manufacture?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. Bhṛtya-vaśyata. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ajñāna, ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent.
| Page Title: | Fully independent (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 01 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=19, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 19 |