From the very beginning (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"from the beginning" |"from the very beginning" |"from the very beginning" |"very beginning"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Macmillan is publishing this one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Macmillan is publishing.

Journalist: Now when you... Do you go to this institute for a certain period of time?

Prabhupāda: There is no fixed period. No. But, say, for me, I was trained, my father was of this line...

Journalist: Oh, your father...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. My father trained me from childhood, yes. And then I met my spiritual master in 1922, and I was initiated in... On the whole there was a background, because as I told you, 80, 90 percent people are Kṛṣṇa conscious by family-wise. You see? So we were trained up from the beginning of our life. Officially, of course, I accepted my spiritual master in 1933. Since then, I had some background, and since I met, I developed this idea. Yes.

Journalist: I see, I see. So you have been, in a sense, spreading this word since 1933 on your own.

Prabhupāda: No. I'm spreading as missionary since nineteen hundred..., practically since '59.

Journalist: '59, I see. What did you do from the time...

Prabhupāda: I was a householder. I was doing business in medicine. Formerly, I was manager in a big chemical firm. But I was cultivating this knowledge although I was householder. I was publishing this Back to Godhead...

Journalist: So you were publishing that...

Prabhupāda: In India.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta, and accidentally, I was born in a very rich family. You have seen that picture in my Calcutta, dancing. In that, there is a Kashi Mallik's family.

Indian Woman: (Bengali) Kashi Malliker?

Prabhupāda: They are very aristocratic family. I do, I did not belong to that family, but I was born in that family, you see? And from the very beginning the Kashi Mallik, they have got nice Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. So I was standing before the deity, and I was seeing, "Oh, He is Kṛṣṇa. Oh, people say He is dead. How he is dead?" Like that I was thinking. And then my, I asked my father, "Oh, I shall worship Kṛṣṇa, give me." So my father gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, so I, whatever I was eating, I was offering them. So the statement of the śāstra and my practical experience corroborates. So we we have to take instance like that, you see? Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. We have to test everything from three positions: the spiritual master, scripture, and holy man. Scripture means, just like Bible. What is Bible? Scripture. Why the scripture? It is fully contains the instruction of sādhu, holy man, or spiritual master, Lord Jesus Christ, therefore is scripture. The scripture means the statement of liberated holy man. That is sādhu. Therefore, scripture should be tested through the holy man and spiritual master. Spiritual master should be tested through scripture and holy man, and holy man should be tested through spiritual master and scripture.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: But that's almost a physical body movement, the chanting rather than a...

Prabhupāda: Maybe, but your intelligence is sufficient. That is... If that standard of intelligent men I get, that is my fortune. You see. Now, at least I request you, you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. It is not sentiment. It is not bluffing. It is not a money-making business that I give you some...

Allen Ginsberg: No. Obviously not.

Prabhupāda: You see? You know from the very beginning. I came here single-handed. I chanted. That's all. I never asked anybody money.

Allen Ginsberg: That was never in question.

Prabhupāda: So I never said that "I'll give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness or this..." No, I mean to say... So it is not bluff. It is purely scientific, transcendental science. So I want some American gentlemen to understand this.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, Howard does.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we want many Howards. (laughs) Your country is so big.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Well, from every city we can publish. Every city there is a newspaper place.

Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Revatīnandana: The Republican party is elephant and the Democratic party is ass, a donkey.

Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before.

Room Conversation -- December 15, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: That's all right but do not take the position of a teacher unless you have assimilated the whole thing. Simply by hearing others you may misunderstand, you may not present the real thing. Therefore I'm asking you...

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (indistinct) but you must know. Another thing is that you must know Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from a bhāgavata, whose life is bhāgavata. First of all you must know what is bhāgavata. What is bhāgavata? Can you give me idea what you have understood? Instead of going through the instruction, first of all let me understand what do you understand about this (indistinct) Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is essential. So you cannot explain what is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have read Bhāgavatam from the beginning? Dharma projjhita kaitavo atra. You have read?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Eh? You have not read even the first verse and you are going to give instruction on Bhāgavatam? Your life should be bhāgavata. You should understand what is bhāgavata. Simply by (indistinct) words from others how can you accept?

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Huh? So I bless(?) you that you try to understand. Then you write. That is my request.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (5): (Hindi) What is the meaning of God.

Prabhupāda: He does not... He does not know what is meaning of God. He thinks that God is something plaything. Therefore he claimed that "I am God." He does not know what is God. Therefore God personally showing—He's coming, Kṛṣṇa: "What is God, see." God is from very beginning God. Kṛṣṇa, from the birth He is God. He hasn't got to meditate. He hasn't got to go to the forest and..., to become God. He is God.

Guest (5): God is made for, sir.

Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.

Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Parabrahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't talk, all together. First of all you must know what is the truth. If your standard of truth is different and my standard of truth is different, then where is the use of talking nonsense? If you have any other truth than Kṛṣṇa, you be satisfied.

Guest (1): Seeking knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Seeking God is sufficient. If you take... First of all you know my position. Suppose...

Guest (2): I understand your position and I have from the beginning said most respectfully. I beg to submit and what my submission is that, as a seeker of knowledge, I come to you. Now...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that... Do you know what is the process of seeking knowledge? Do you know that?

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer me. You are seeking knowledge...

Guest (2): The thing is...

Prabhupāda: No, you also hear me. First of all let me know what is the process of seeking knowledge. You cannot make your own process.

Guest (2): The concepts have changed. You are making a change from the...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all you know that I am speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā says, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Is it not? Tad viddhi praṇipātena. You have to surrender first of all.

Guest (2): Surrender to whom?

Prabhupāda: Anyone wherefrom you are seeking knowledge.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Yesterday you said in our nice gathering, I remember, that we have to rise above body consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the Gītā.

Guest (2): And we have to be soul conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): Now, the idea of rising above body consciousness is to sell off the wild things, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, ahaṅkāra.

Guest (2): Ahaṅkāra

Guest (1): Now, that is one thing that is there in all scriptures. The Gītā also says that kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, ahaṅkāra must be checked. Now, if we move with that pride and arrogance that "We are the only correct calling. This is the only correct path," and that "You have to surrender from the beginning," now that only aggravates the pride in a person.

Prabhupāda: Then what can I do? Kṛṣṇa says... If you talk, two, I cannot answer. You talk with me, one.

Guest (2): No, we have talked with reasoning.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't talk, two. I cannot answer with all these reasons. Either you talk or then let him talk.

Guest (2): I am talking. I am talking now.

Prabhupāda: Then you talk. Let him talk.

Guest (2): So we have to tear all these vices that are connected with our body. That is our purpose of getting into either bhakti, or nāma, bhāgavata or whatever it may be.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): But in that way, if you talk from that, another way of ahaṅkāra and pride, then things cannot go far. Things cannot go far.

Prabhupāda: So shall I answer now? Now you stop; I answer. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So even though you have got so many sinful life, Kṛṣṇa assures that "If you surrender unto Me I shall give you protection from the reaction."

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: But you know what is interesting to... It is the opinion of some European and old, old Russian scholars, this varṇāśrama system...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Kotovsky:...is a bit late creation. If you would trace the old sūtras, texts, of Vedic literature, you would find much more simple and egalitarian society. And there is an opinion that this varṇāśrama system was introduced into Indian society on the late stage of Vedic era but not from the beginning, about... If you would analyze scientifically the old texts, you'll find that... (break)...human estimations. (laughs) As many brains, as many estimations...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...about the duration of this period because unfortunately the old classic India we have not so much information.

Prabhupāda: But so far... So far we are concerned, this Bhagavad-gītā... It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Now, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "This system of Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god." So if you take estimation of that period, it comes forty millions of years. So whether the European scholars can trace out the history of at least for five thousand years together, not to speak of forty millions?

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac... Because first problem is problem, when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And if he imitates from the very beginning, he will be spoiled, that's all. Because in the beginning, if I take Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is (indistinct). (laughter) Don't do this. Always be busy. First stage, last stage. When one is paramahaṁsa just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja. He says that you are cheating people. (Bengali) There is a song written by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī: "What kind of Vaiṣṇava you are?" (Bengali) "Your chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in a secluded place," (Bengali) "is simply cheating." What do you know what you are chanting? First of all prepare yourself to come to the stage of perfect chanting. This is sevā. Always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service: how to decorate the temple, how to invite people, giving the feast, write books, distribute books and knowledge. In this way don't sit idly. Always be engaged, always.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Is your spiritual master still alive?

Prabhupāda: No. He has passed away in 1936.

Interviewer: So you are at this particular time then the head in the world of this movement? Would that be correct?

Prabhupāda: I have got many other Godbrothers, but I was particularly ordered to do this from the very beginning. So I am trying to please my spiritual master. That's all.

Interviewer: Now you were sent to this country, to the United States of America. This is your territory. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hm. No. My territory, what he said, that "You go and speak this philosophy to the English knowing public."

Interviewer: To the English speaking world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And especially the Western world. Yes. He told me like that.

Interviewer: When you came, sir, to this country about 15, 16 years ago and started...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not 15, 16 years.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So we are called conditioned soul because we are conditioned according to this body. Deha-yogena dehinām. The..., according to karma, the certain privileges or disadvantages, what you are destined to receive, that is already a fact according to your birth. Just like somebody's suffering from asthma, so he has got a body from a father and mother, and from the very beginning there is asthma. That body is the symptom or the result of his past karma. Therefore the material advantages or disadvantages are already settled up according to karma. So those who are sane man, they are confident that "Kṛṣṇa has given me this body according to my past karma, so let me not improve. Let me not waste my time for improving the advantages and disadvantages of this material world." But you cannot do it. The body is already there, according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). It is already given to you. So people should be satisfied. Just like when I got this body of an ass, so you can test. And the advantage and (indistinct) that ass is meant for becoming beast of burden. He has to do that. Similarly, there is a body, the hog, he has to eat stool. So we should know it, that either we are born in such a country, such society, the body is there, and I can get my happiness and distress according to this body. This is settled up. But they do not know. They're simply trying to, unnecessary wasting time for bodily comforts. "Oh, you are so comfortable. Let me try." Huh? "I shall try also." So Prahlāda Maharaja says, "No, don't waste your time like that. Your time is very valuable."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi that "You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got svarāṭ, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world."

Guest: He was doing if from the beginning, not exclusively that, but applying the Bhagavad-gītā to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really, but you are referring to concentrated, exclusive...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...teaching of the doctrines and way life described in...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I requested Dr. Radhakrishnan also...

Guest: Huh?

Prabhupāda: ...when he was vice-president.

Guest: Radhakrishnan? Nowhere in comparison with Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: Radhakrishnan, highly intellectual, good man, but he was more of a... There was no inspiration he gave.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest: God seems to have decided to spare him from that, from hard work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Guest: ...because all religious organizations have floundered on scandal, and you will have to be very careful about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: This is what an old man has a right to tell you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, from the very beginning, because in Western country the boys and girls, they intermingle very freely.

Guest: Oh, yes, we know all that.

Prabhupāda: Yes...

Guest: We know for a fact.

Prabhupāda: ...and therefore I, as far as possible, I get them married.

Guest: Yes. But that doesn't prevent permissive culture. It acts as a sort of guarantee (Prabhupāda laughs), as a sort of insurance against scandal. But scandals do come out.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and that is a...

Guest: So you are left with, that is another crude problem...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation Vaisnava Calendar Description -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Devotee: On the 13th of September, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda's Appearance is there any special observance?

Prabhupāda: No, special observance means to discuss about the life and works of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, thats all. Then 26th September, Ekādaśī. Then 10th October, Vijayā-daśamī, appearance date of Śrīla Madhvācārya, and the victory day of Lord Rāmacandra. So there is no fasting, but in the evening we should celebrate some feasting and discuss about the life and works of Śrī Madhvācārya as well as Rāmāyaṇa incidents where Rāma and Rāvaṇa fought. The next day is Ekādaśī, that is means 11th October. Then 12th October is Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī, there is no fasting, but we should have discussion of Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī. Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī happened to be the only boy of his father and his uncle. He was a very rich man's son, but he left home for Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His life should be discussed as follows, that from the beginning he was very much detached to worldly life. So his father and mother saw that this boy is very much detached, he should be immediately married with a beautiful wife. So that was done—he was given a very nice house and beautiful wife—but still he was very much detached. So when he was a householder he met Nityānanda at Pāṇihāṭī and he prayed Lord Caitanya to take him with Him. At that time Caitanya was sannyāsī. Lord Caitanya instructed him, that "Don't be in a hurry, gradually Kṛṣṇa will give you a chance to be aloof from these worldly affairs." He was very intelligent even though he was detached from worldly affairs, but from his activities it appears that he was very intelligent also in worldly affairs. While somehow or other, for political reasons, his father and uncle were to be arrested by the minister of the region(?), Muslim government, and his father and uncle hided themselves to avoid the arrest. Then the agent of the Nawab, he arrested Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī. So "Tell, where is your father and uncle, otherwise you shall be tortured." So he did not answer anything, but after some time when he was in arrest, he very politely presented his case to the minister, "My dear sir, I know my uncle, father and yourself, you are very intimate friends and treat each other as brothers. So sometimes there is some quarrel between brothers, that I can understand. But so far I am concerned, I am equally affectionate to my father, uncle as well as to yourself. I am also your son." In this way, when he very politely presented, the minister became very much affected, and he began to cry, "Yes, this boy is very nice." So he immediately released him and told him that "Yes, we are brothers. Now if you settle up our disagreement that will be very nice." So he was released and he made a settlement between the minister and his father and uncle, so in that settlement he showed his worldly intelligence very nicely.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Sudāmā: They have not gone.

Prabhupāda: They have not gone. We have got our tests. I am speaking from the very beginning, "They have not gone." And practically you see, even if you have gone, what utility you have made? They are simply planning, again planning. "We shall get petrol from there. We shall have defense from there." Simply bluffing, simply bluffing. The Americans will go to the moon planet to defend his country from the Russians. Just see. And we have to believe all these nonsense proposals. What defense they will do from there? Is it not the proposal? Yes.

Śyāmasundara: This morning you were saying that civilization means peace. So this is not civilization.

Prabhupāda: This is no civilization.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...

Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Don't remain in darkness; come to the light. How is this possible? When I flew to London from Los Angeles, there was no darkness, for we did not allow the sun to set, you remain always in light. This means that if you don't forget Kṛṣṇa, your life will be successful. If you aim your plane westward and don't stop, you will remain in sunlight all the time. Similarly, if you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you will never see the darkness. This is because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name are absolute; Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name. Kṛṣṇa is light, and if we associate with the name of Kṛṣṇa, we remain in light. Remaining in light is a very simple method; therefore you see all these boys with their beads chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. In this way māyā cannot touch them. No intoxication, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī. Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, and we cannot become happy in matter. We require spiritual food, spiritual atmosphere.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: This is published by Macmillan. It is eleven hundred pages. They printed in July fifty thousand copies. That is finished. Now they are going to print second edition. Since 1968 they are publishing our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and every year they are getting one edition. From the beginning... I think this is the fifth or sixth edition and their business manager, trades manager's report is that this Bhagavad-gītā is increasing sale, others' dwindling, because it is presented as it is. We present Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." We present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." We teach people, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We say, "You become Kṛṣṇa bhakta. You offer worship to Kṛṣṇa." We don't change anything. And therefore people are accepting. Adulteration, how long it will go on? You know very well. You are from Delhi. There is a Punjabi halwai (?), in the Chowry Bazaar. You know that?

Guest (4): No, I have heard about it.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Guest (2): How far is saṁskāra powerful like...?

Prabhupāda: Well, saṁskāra you can change in a second. Saṁskāra may be powerful. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa assures you, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He will give you protection. Saṁskāra means you did some sinful activities and you are suffering. But He gives you protection. Sarva-pāpebhyo. Then what is the meaning of saṁskāra? You can change your saṁskāra immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are so much concerned with saṁskāra? He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... The saṁskāra as effects of sinful activities, that is troublesome. So He gives you protection. Mā śucaḥ, "Don't worry." Why don't you take this? You don't want to change your saṁskāra, and who can help you? That is a different thing. You don't want to change. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is ready to give you all help. How their saṁskāra is changed? From the very beginning of their life they are addicted to these principles: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. How they have changed? They don't touch it. How it has become possible?

Guest (2): I believe they were great yogīs in their past lives.

Prabhupāda: And why you not?

Guest (2): I don't know that.

Prabhupāda: Because you don't surrender. That is the fact. If you surrender, you become also great yogī.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Gurudāsa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: ...without spiritual... Without spiritual it is void.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Gurudāsa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. "

Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, 17, when Anivesan (?) became the Congress president, yes. Then I became serious in 1920, and I gave up my education. So one of my friends, that friend he is also now, perhaps you know Mahārāja, that Naren Mullik?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was my intimate friend. So in their house, old Tīrtha Mahārāja went to beg some alms—they are very rich man. So, he informed me that "One nice sannyāsī came to our house," and he was invited, "in Ultadanga there is Gauḍīya Maṭha, so he has invited me. I wish to go there. Why don't you come? Let us go together." He was my very intimate friend. So at that time I was a little pessimistic (?), "I know all these sādhus there, I am not going." So he forced me, "Oh, why not come? Let us go." "All right, let us go." So I went to see His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in 1922 in that Ultadanga building, and that time Prabhupāda was sitting on the roof. There was small house (indistinct) room, and we were welcome, because they thought Naren Mullik was very rich man and he has contributed some money. So, we went to see Prabhupāda, offered our obeisances. So immediately he said that "You are all educated young men, why don't you preach Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world?" So I replied him, "Sir, we are dependent nation, who will hear our message? We can talk all these things after we get independence," because I was politically-minded at that time. So he refuted my argument. Certainly I was defeated, and I took his words very seriously, I appreciated. Then we were offered some prasādam, we came down, and my friend Naren Mullik asked me, "How did you like this sādhu?" "Yes, here is a sādhu in whose hands Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message is there, and it will be done. I think this is very nice." That was my appreciation. Then 1923, I resigned my post as manager in Bose's laboratory, and I accepted the agency of whole U.P., beginning from Mughalsarai (?) up to Delhi, and I made my head office in Allahabad. So I was always thinking, "Oh yes, I met a very nice sādhu." From the very beginning, that was my impression, that "I have met a real sādhu." So, actually the words, lava mātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54), was actually... I perceived a kind (?) for a moment, and he impressed so much, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, that it was, it continued. Then in 1928, when there was Kumbha-melā... Mahārāja, when you joined Gauḍīya Maṭha?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Twenty-seven.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaiṣṇava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Śrīdhara Mahārāja head. And I wanted to mix... At that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja, one of my friend's house at Sealdah... Śrīdhara Mahārāja, you may remember those things. I wanted to organize in so many ways, but somehow or other...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I had one house in Station Road belonging to Naren Mullik. (indistinct) very small (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he wanted to rent us only for ninety rupees. I told him, "You just give me the concession. He, at that time he was getting 125, but because I am his friend, "All right, I'll give you, ninety rupees." So that could not happen somehow or other. So I was trying from the very beginning after the disappearance of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: First appearance of Back to Godhead (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, 1944. I think you were at that time at my house. Yes. So, somehow or other, this intention for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu increased and the other side decreased. Viraktir anyatra syāt. But I was not disinclined, but Kṛṣṇa forced me that you must give up. (chuckles) And these thing is known better to Śrīdhara Mahārāja, how it decreased, decreased, decreased, then almost it become nil, and then I left home in 1950. Whatever was there, "All right, you do whatever you like." In 1954, four years I remained as vānaprastha, (indistinct) four years, from 1950 to 1959.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is asking you that "You realize Me." "No, I cannot see You." "No, why cannot see you? Here is water. You are drinking water." "Yes." "I am water, I am the taste of the water. Why don't you see Me?" Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the sunshine." So who is not seeing the sunshine? Why the rascals says, "I do not see God"? God says, "I am here." But he says, "I do not see." Liar. If you are in my front, if I say, "Here I am," if you say, "No, sir, I don't see you," what is this? Similarly, God is before you in the form of sunshine. Don't you see the sunshine? Why do you say that I do not see God? Who has not seen the sunshine? In the morning, very early in the morning, you see God. That is Gāyatrī mantra. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya. That is the obeisances to the sun. Savitṛ. Savitṛ means, savitā means sun. In the very beginning we see God by the sunshine, and then think of the sunshine, how much potential it is, how everything is being produced by the sunshine. As soon as there is no sunshine, we become disturbed, so many business become disturbed. So why don't you understand that without God's presence, we cannot do anything. Where is the difficulty? Does it require any very big philosophical speculation? The rascal will not admit as directed in the Vedic literature. That is their fault. Otherwise where is the difficulty? No difficulty. What is the explanation of these scientists of the sunshine?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the sunshine is just some... Sun is a... There is a gaseous material, very hot temperature. So the rays are coming from the sun...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but it can kill you. Is it not? So when did you accept with God? Sunshine, if it increases a little temperature, millions of you will be killed immediately. So why don't you accept sun as God? Therefore, according to Vedic principles, sun in the beginning is accepted as God.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: These are the different stages of sādhaka, of a devotee, how to make progress. So in the beginning they're faithless. Faith is that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he captures this slogan, that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I shall be all-successful," this is the beginning of faith. Bhagavad-gītā creates this faith. But one who does not take even this faith, how he'll make progress. Progress means the progress of the same faith, up to the love of Godhead. That is perfection of faith. So these are the stages. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the stages. So this institution is meant for training people from different stages, and beginning with this faith, that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta... "Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, my life will be perfect." This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress. So little faith, even. Not full faith. It develops by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Everything is there. If we adopt, then everyone can make his life successful. There is no doubt about it. Just like if you enter into a school, if you follow the regulative principles of the school and study, you, one day, you become M.A. Where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty? But if from the beginning, if you have no faith, then what progress you'll make? If you, from the very beginning, if you think, "What will be, this school will do me? They're learning ABCD. What...?" (laughter) There is no faith. You may call it blind faith. But that is required.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Because Veda, Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means truth. Unless you come to the knowledge of truth, your knowledge is not perfect.

Father Tanner: But do you specifically have a precept against telling a lie, or against hypocrisy?

Prabhupāda: Well, hypocrisy and other things, they are subsidiary. If one is pure from the very beginning, then there is no chance of becoming hypocrite. Why he should be hypocrite? If he is open, clear, why one should become hypocrite? Hypocrisy, when there is sinful activity, then hypocrisy. If there is no sin, where is the possibility of hypocrisy? A sinful man may pose himself a religious man. That is hypocrisy. But if there is no sin, then where is hypocrisy?

Father Tanner: What I didn't understand is how this is covered by your four pillars, the four...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Father Tanner: Which of these would cover lying?

Prabhupāda: Lying?

Father Tanner: Yes, telling lies.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Crack. The long wick, you just set fire: (makes sound:) tille, tille, tille, tille, tille, and when it comes: tung! (laughter) It is like that. You just set up the fire and then one day he'll become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Śyāmasundara: So the knowledge is absolute, it works with anyone.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even if he does not complete, whatever he has done, that is complete. Because it is spiritual, it is not material. In material world suppose if you want to do something, you have to make the background. And while doing the background if you could not make further progress, everything is finished. But spiritual work is not like that. From the very beginning, whatever you are doing, that is asset. Nothing is lost. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even a little done in spiritual consciousness, that can save you from the greatest danger.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: And they've had one or two cases at their hospital where they've gone out afterwards and they've seen babies moving! Terrible.

Prabhupāda: It has been seen in Calcutta also, in dust bin found out some child, dust bin.

David Lawrence: Terrible. Some are in such an advanced state of pregnancy that clearly life is a strong possibility.

Prabhupāda: Not advanced stage, life begins from the very beginning of sex. The living entity is very small. By nature's law, according to his karma, he's sent to the father's semina and that is injected and immediately the two secretions emulsify, the man's and the woman's, and it forms a body just like a pea. That is the formation of body. Now that pea-like form develops gradually. Then first manifestation is the nine holes. Everything is there in the Vedic literature. Nine holes, they have got nine holes. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. In this way gradually the senses develop and by the time seven months, everything is complete and the living entity's consciousness come back. Prior to the formation of the body, the living entity remains unconscious just like in chloroform, anaesthetic. Then he dreams and then gradually consciousness... At that time he becomes very much upset to come out, come out. Then nature gives him "khut!" He comes out. That's all. This is the process of birth.

David Lawrence: Miracle.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They do not know anything.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect material plan.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is another way of earning money. And he was always after Guru Mahārāja only for this purpose. Guru Mahārāja took that "Oh, this man is helping me." But he had no such plan, to help Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. He had the plan, "Keep Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī in front, earn money, and put it in my pocket." That was his very beginning. He was taking money like anything. But he was a good manager. Other God-brothers complained, sannyāsīs. Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Why you are complaining? You cannot reform him, your God-brother? And if I would have to keep expert manager like him, I would have to pay something. Suppose he is taking something, why do you grudge?" (Prabhupāda laughing) He would say like that. So nobody could say anything. But after the demise, everything burst out. "Kunja Babu must be driven out." That was the whole plan of Gauḍīya Maṭha breakdown. The grudge was against Kunja Babu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is Kunja Babu?

Prabhupāda: That Tīrtha Mahārāja. His name is Kunja Vihari Sar. So that was boiling in everyone's heart. So as soon as Guru Mahārāja passed away, so that burst out. And the whole plan was how to get out this Kunja Babu.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into... Therefore he advised that "You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager." This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that "You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime." He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?" That was his plan. "Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on. Then ācārya will come by his qualifications." But they wanted that... Because at heart, they were, "After demise of Guru, I shall become ācārya." "I shall become ācārya." So all the ācāryas began fight. One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that "Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them." (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that "There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court. So at the expense of Guru Mahārāja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things." It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers. They were all made at the cost of Gauḍīya Maṭha to fight with (indistinct) in favor of Tīrtha Mahārāja. These were the planned things. But I was a rotten gṛhastha. I did not join any one of them. (Prabhupāda laughs) I was rotting in my household life. That's all. But I was planning how to make, how to make this. That was my desire from the very beginning, since I heard it. But I was never with them, either this party or that party. And Guru Mahārāja also recommended, apnader tasturi tublia thaki bhavan. Takhona (?). "When there will be need, he will do himself. There is no need of living with you. It is better to live apart from you." When I was recommended by Goswami Mahārāja to live in the Maṭha, that "He is so nice." Sometimes he recommended. In Bombay, here in this Bombay. That house. Yes. He (Guru Mahārāja) said "Yes, he is very expert. He can do. So it is better to live apart from you. And he will do everything when there is need." He said. I could not understand. Although I was apart from them, a gṛhastha. In this Bombay I was doing business.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He's criticizing: "Mālatī, this old man is smoking." He's getting the saṁskāra from the childhood, as we got it from good father. Yes. So here is a chance. And that will not... It is not childish, Sarasvatī's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In London, she would finish sixteen rounds?

Śyāmasundara: Six.

Prabhupāda: Six. She was... Just see. She has got determination.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And all the children. So that will not go in vain.

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmīs, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like the scientists, they are claiming matter. This should be discussed. Then you come to the conclusion, "He must be animate." Then next question is "Wherefrom the animation came?" Then the conclusion should be that "He is self-sufficient. There is no need of cause." Then "Why people cannot understand?" That answer is that "Even great, great personality like Brahmā, Indra, they also bewildered." In this way, everything is there in that verse, systematical. Yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Now this material world is also creation of God, but it is shadow; it is not reality. The reality is where there is no illusion, and that is spiritual kingdom. That is the place of God. Everything is there in that verse in the beginning. And then next verse is, the so-called religions, they are kicked out from this Bhāgavatam. The religion is God is great and everyone should worship Him. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsara...(SB 1.1.2). And it is meant for the first-class non-envious person. One who is envious, he will think, "Oh, why shall I worship God?" He cannot. One who is non-envious, he understands that "God is great always. I am always subordinate. Therefore I must worship." This is... In systematic way you discuss. "I must worship. Because I am dependent. I am not final authority. So the great... God is great, and I am always small. So it is my duty to submit to the great." So that is bhakti. So you can discuss in a systematic way. Bhāgavata is there. There is no difficulty. And it is said there, īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate: "By studying this literature, the God immediately becomes captured." Immediately becomes captured. These people are searching after God, but if one understands Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the very beginning, rightly, immediately God is captured. Sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate, śuśrūṣubhiḥ, "Those who are seriously and inquisitive, for them." Tat-kṣaṇāt, "immediately." There is no need of taking time, that "So many years it will take." No, Tat-kṣaṇāt. These are stated in the Bhāgavata.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...getting worse over these five thousand years, but by a reintroduction, reintroducing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the tide can be turned in age of Kali?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story. Just see, all our disciples in Europe, America, they were habituated to so many bad habits, and because they are chanting, they are now cleansed. So it is small-scale. If you propagate it large-scale, everyone will be cleansed. (break) ...disciples who were trained up from very beginning of their life: meat-eating. They are giving meat-eating. Here in your country, small children, they are fed with meat-powder. Intoxication is also a daily affair. How they are giving up all intoxication?

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: In New York last month we paid, er, the month before, we paid forty-five thousand dollars into the book fund in one month. It's a new record.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Forty-five thousand?

Bali Mardana: In one month.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...distributed big books, from the very beginning.

Bali Mardana: And samosās.

Prabhupāda: And samosās, yes. (laughs)

Bali Mardana: One bookseller in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Paradise. Paradise?

Bali Mardana: Yes, I think that is it. The woman was telling us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. She was very friendly. Mrs. Max Linder. Her husband is the proprietor, and she would call her husband, "Max, why don't you take these books," like this. She was friendly. And that Mr. Max was first-class businessman. He will extract as much profit as... (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. It was sold. Practically, in the beginning, they were selling. I was getting some money. There was no other income. Another bookseller, Oriental.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They are brainless, to tell the truth. The scum of the society has gone... The other day, I said, "Who are the ministers today?" The middle class of people, those rogues and rascals who followed Gandhiji.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: The highest people died out. We, who were young boys, we are, in our own ways, engaged in our own professions. The rascals... The rascals are the ministers. Am I right or wrong?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. From the beginning. From the beginning. Now, if you don't mind, I'll say. This Jawaharlal was rejected by his father. After coming from foreign country, he was simply after women. So his father thought that "This son is useless." So he was lying useless. So when Gandhi approached Motilal Nehru, that "Come and join," so he took the opportunity that "I am coming, settling up. You please take my son." So that is the beginning of Jawaharlal Nehru's life.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I lived in that house for seven years. And then I came to Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Which way? (break) ...stayed in that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, Malliks. And still I am living in temple. So Kṛṣṇa has arranged nicely, from the beginning of my life, temple. Which way? This way? (break) Medhi, this is called medhi, this rod, center. So the, the bull is bound up with it and he goes round, goes around. All day. So gṛhamedhī means center is home, and he goes round. Throughout the whole life. They are called gṛhamedhīs.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed. So, so if one is very much adapted for eating and sleeping, he should be engaged with plows. You see. He must be activity. Otherwise, there must be dysentery, eating and sleeping. He cannot digest. Yes. So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped. We have got fifty bighās of land, and I have calculated in Māyāpura, setting aside twenty bighās for the temple and grazing ground for the cows, thirty bighās of land. The production should be three hundred mounds of grains. And three hundred mounds of grain, I have calculated.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Viṣṇujana: One good example in New Vrindaban, they're actually doing that. They're training kṣatriyas, they're training...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. That was the very beginning...

Viṣṇujana: ...vaiśyas...

Prabhupāda: I started the New Vrindaban scheme on this formula.

Viṣṇujana: Kīrtanānanda Swami has carried it out just as you have desired.

Parivrājakācārya: So in a sense, New Vrindaban is already...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. The starting is already there.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual master... Kṛṣṇa is also spiritual master.

Harikeśa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa sends spiritual master, His representative, as you can appreciate, externally, directly. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is already spiritual master. He could give you instruction from the very beginning. But why He is sending His representative? What is the use?

Harikeśa: We're not able to...

Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The brahmācārya is so much stressed. Tapasā brahmacaryena. Samena damena vā, tyāgena śaucena yamena niyamena vā. This is the process of human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in śāstra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhādeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ...

Dr. Patel: Ṛṣabhadeva's hundred sons.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ (SB 5.5.1).

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.

Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.

Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...

Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.

Dr. Patel: He was not allowed to speak Bengali by his parents.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Because in those days... (break)

Dr. Patel: We are forgetting Sanskrit very quickly.

Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are interested...

Dr. Patel: Now the schools, they don't teach as in our times. (break)

Prabhupāda: As soon as the kṣatriyas were negligent, immediately the brāhmaṇas should take step. That was the system. (break) ...offer advice to the kṣatriyas according to śāstra, and kṣatriyas would execute, and the vaiśyas would care for supply. And the śūdras, serving everyone. That's all. This is the system. (break) So he used to manufacture. To manufacture means śūdra.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? You are not interested in Kṛṣṇa philosophy?

Indian man (2): That's right. They are very interested.

Prabhupāda: The... Every young boy, or even young child... Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). And that is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five years old child, and he was teaching his class friends Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in that teaching he said... The other children, they said, "Why you are teaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Let us play." So he answered, "No, no, my dear friends." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. This science, Bhagavad-dharma, should be learned from the very beginning of life. That is Vedic culture. Brahmacārīs, they were living at the place of guru and learning this science. That is Vedic culture. (break) ...boys of Europe and America, they are accepting this Vedic culture. Why you are keeping aloof? What is the reason?

Indian man (2): They are praying, but not showing.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Satsvarūpa: They are praying, but not showing.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So they are showing only?

Indian man (2): No, no, no. It is not only showing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ruci, aśakti, tato bhāva. Then bhāva. Bhāva means Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully developed. Then love. Then love. Love is actually exhibited. Then "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa in this way, in that way, that way, that way." You see? Fully engaged. This is the process. You cannot say that "Let my love be stagnant in my heart. There is no exhibition." No. There must be exhibition. That is the symptom of love. Otherwise why Rūpa Gosvāmī resigned from his ministership? He was a devotee from the very beginning. He is nitya-siddha, eternal devotee. But he gave up everything. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍali-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. Rūpa Gosvāmī. About Rūpa Gosvāmī and all the Gosvāmīs, this is described that tyaktvā tūrṇam aśesa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. They were ministers. Their associates were big, big personalities, maṇḍala-pati. Big, big leaders. Maṇḍala-pati means big, big leaders. Just like in Indian villages, still there is one man, chief man, he is called maṇḍala. Or there are many maṇḍalas, and there is one head, maṇḍala-pati. So tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ. He was meeting with big, big zamindars, big, big leaders, big, big... Because he was minister. So he gave up all this association. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala. Not one, two, but many, he gave up. "What is the value of this association? What is the value? They are not Kṛṣṇa conscious." So gave up. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. "What is the value of these things?" Tuccha-vat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Just to show favor to the mass of people he became a mendicant. Dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā. Just like Gandhi also did that. Although he was the greatest leader, he was living like a mendicant, one loincloth. That's all. Maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. Then how he managed? Just like we have seen practically in the life of C.R. Das. He was living very luxuriously. You know, C.R. Das.

Indian man (1): I know.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: English medium, the intelligence gets baffled because it is not a mother language.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo Ghosh studied English from the very beginning.

Dr. Patel: But he was extremely clever. He studied then Gujarati, not even Bengali. After he came from England...

Prabhupāda: He came to Gujarati. No. He came to Baroda.

Dr. Patel: Then he studied Gujarati, but he did not know Bengali at all. And then he came... (break) What is that? (break)

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) From our childhood, if there was a rice grain on the floor, my father, er, my mother would ask me, "Take it and touch it on your head."

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: We were advised not to tread on the grains. (break)

Prabhupāda: Because by chance, if the grain is struck with the leg, she asked, "Take it and you touch it on the head."

Dr. Patel: That is the culture. That is real culture.

Prabhupāda: Means from the very beginning he understands anna-brahma.

Dr. Patel: Even it is not spoken, you practice it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, practice it. According to Vedic culture, the higher class, in every home there is nārāyaṇa-śilā for worship, especially of the brāhmaṇas.

Dr. Patel: In our homes we have all these small such temples, small chapels. All of us, our homes have got one room specially for Kṛṣṇa-mūrti and (indistinct) For pūjā only. (break) We say ṭhākura-ghara.

Prabhupāda: Ṭhākura-ghara must be there, not only simply a lavatory. There must be one ṭhākura-ghara.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.

Yogeśvara: The little boy of President John Kennedy was in Central Park last week, and another boy came and pushed him to the ground and stole his bicycle. The president's son.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning, stealing, and robbing. What is this picture? One horse without any...

Yogeśvara: I think it is the horse of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: Just like in the forest. The animals, they select the lion to be the king.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice." I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, "Yes, there is no God." I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. "You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex." So I am just speaking opposite, from the beginning of my preaching. So why you are coming? So if you stick to your position, real human civilization, people will come, gradually. Because they have got the sense. When we say others are animals, demons, we don't say whimsically, capriciously, no. On the basis of sound knowledge. Therefore our declaration is completely right. We are not mental speculators, that I say some gentleman, "You are animal." No. I see, I know, that he is animal. Therefore I say. A man is running his motorcar, (makes sound) rarararara, and a dog is running. We don't see any difference, although he is on the motorcar. We don't find any difference. He is as good as the dog. Unnecessarily he is running.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you should kill animal?

Young Swiss Man (3): At the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?

Young Swiss Man (3): Isn't it at the beginning Arjuna hesitates to kill his family and doesn't want to go to fight, and what he is taught, through Bhagavad-gītā in some way is that he should not restrain and that...

Prabhupāda: But first of all you take your Bible. You are ordered not to kill. Why you are killing? Then go to Bhagavad-gītā. When there is aggression you have the right to kill but not unnecessarily you can kill. Suppose a tiger attacks you; you can kill. But you cannot go in the forest and kill the tiger. That is sinful.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: There is the European Center for Nuclear Research.

Prabhupāda: What can I do there? (laughter)

Guru-gaurāṅga: This man has worked in India... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...for B.A. examination. So the father failed, and the daughter passed. Yes, because the old man cannot take education. In Bhāgavata also it is recommended, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāga... (SB 7.6.1). Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning of life. The more younger, you capture it. Just like we were educated from the very birth by our father. The same thing, what I am doing now in larger scale, I did in my childhood, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and Ratha-yātrā, the same thing.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: To become thoughtless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are disgusted with this material thought, therefore they want to make it zero. But that is not possible. You must think of something. But they have no spiritual idea. They do not know what is spiritual thinking. They think that "Make it zero. These thoughts, let us make it zero." Just like a diseased man, suffering for, from the very beginning of his life... Then, if somebody suggests that "When you'll be cured, you'll very nicely eat, nicely walk and nicely think," so he's coming to the stage of diseased condition, "Again thinking? Again eating? Again lying down on bed? Then what is the difference? No, no. It must be zero: no eating, no sleeping, no bedding, nothing." He's thinking like that. Because he has got bad experience of his diseased condition, he thinks, "Again if there is eating, again if there is walking, then how it can be cured?" He cannot think of. These rascals, because they have no idea what is spiritual thinking, they want to make this thinking zero only. That's all. Śūnyavādī. They are called Śūnyavādī, nirvāṇa, Buddhist philosophy. "Your body is subjected to pains and pleasure; so dismantle this body." This is Buddha philosophy. "Make it zero. There will be no more pains and pleasure." "You have got some trouble in the eyes? Pluck it out." He does not know how to cure it. He simply knows, "Pluck it out." This is their philosophy. Asatyere satya kari māni. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song.

ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā, nitāi-pada pāsariyā,

asatyere satya kari māni

"Being puffed up by false ego, I am, I have taken untruth as truth. And when somebody speaks about truth, I take it as untruth." Asatyere satya kare māni. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is fall consciousness. Prahlāda Mahārāja said: "immediately..." Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). No waste after. Our policy is that. Therefore we have opened Dallas, that immediately, from the very beginning of life let them understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda if the devotee is fearless, how is it that Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of material nature?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I say it is very nice, immediately. Because he was embracing tree also. So that is God consciousness, advanced God consciousness. Because everywhere there is part and parcel of God. Any way, either materially or spiritually. In our childhood, actually what I am doing, it was all taught in our childhood by our parents, my family. We were taught, "There is a grain of rice on the ground, and if it is touched by your feet, you should pick up the grain and touch on your head." This was our training. The idea behind—that the grain of rice is not man-made. It is sent by God. "O God, give us our daily bread." So here is the bread. It is God's mercy. Just see how idea, great idea. What is given by God, that is also God. This is God consciousness. You are asking God's mercy. So God's mercy is also God, the Absolute. So how can you disrespect a thing which is given by God? You cannot produce rice. You cannot produce bread. It is given by God. Everything... Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the beginning of drinking water. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The taste of the water, I am." So water, or any liquid thing you are drinking, if you are feeling some pleasure, ānanda... Ānandamaya. That God is ānanda. So there is the sample of ānanda. So if we simply practice this, that wherever I derive some pleasure, that is God, then you become God conscious. To become God conscious is not difficult. Simply one has to learn how to practice it. That's all. Everything stated.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not. Thirty, forty, fifty or one year, that doesn't matter. One can understand if he wants to understand. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not limited by any age. Otherwise how Prahlāda Mahārāja was great devotee, Dhruva Mahārāja was great devotee?

Yaśodānandana: I think he just wants to mention that it is more difficult for people who are elderly to understand, those who are more set up in their ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is the difficulty. They are trained up in such a way that it's very difficult to forget what they have learned. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret prajñaḥ, from the very beginning of life one should learn this art of understanding Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's plan.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...chance should be given during childhood. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). This bhāgavata-dharma, that is our idea in Gurukula. Learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning of childhood.

Jayatīrtha: Bahulāśva's son is only three years old, but he can chant that "ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā... (CC Antya 20.12)," chant very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Jayatīrtha: And He chants also his rounds, couple of rounds every day.

Prabhupāda: And another child? Svarūpa-da? Yes...

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, Śiva-jvara.

Prabhupāda: Śiva-jvara. Oh, he's a wonderful child. He is English. He's so busy. He wants to do everything. Yes.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can one cut down his limited knowledge if he's habituated to material life?

Prabhupāda: Well, habit can be changed. Just like nobody is habituated smoking from the very beginning of his life, but by association he learns smoking. And again, by association he can give it up. These boys, American, European boys, they were habituated so many bad things. Now they have given up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can we know what is good and what is bad? How can we define them?

Prabhupāda: When you come to the good, you will understand what is good. When you come to the bad, you understand what is bad.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He does not understand.

Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. The other day in Caracas two or three psychiatrists came. His question was how to solve the problems. So our statement is that unless you treat the spiritual disease of the human society, then the problems will increase. It will be never be solved. The real disease is spiritual disease.

Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense. Spiritual education should be given...

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

(SB 7.6.1)

This is statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old boy and a devotee. So he was trying to preach amongst his classfellows. The classfellows said, "Why you are bothering about spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, now? We are young men. Let us play." He said, "No. The spiritual life should begin kaumāra, just at the beginning of five years." Why? Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very rarely obtained, and we do not know when we shall die. So before our next death we must be spiritually equipped. That is the business of human life."

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: ...and take shelter of Him. Then everything will be solved. That we are preaching.

Rāmeśvara: They have missed that point.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Reporter: My question to you is at what age did you realize God?

Prabhupāda: God is a person like you and me. The difference is that we are also persons. We are many, and God is one, leader. Now, what is the difference between this one and we many? He maintains all these many, and we are maintained by Him, but He is also a person like you and me. Do you follow?

Reporter: Yes, I do, but Swamiji, my question to you was a bit more pointed than that. I appreciate the answer you just gave me, but at what age did you realize the highest truth? At what physical age...?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of age. Realization of God should be educated from the very beginning of life.

Reporter: Oh, I understand that, Swamiji. My question to you was at what age did you yourself in this physical incarnation realize the highest truth?

Prabhupāda: Of course, we were born in a very nice family. My father educated me in this way. So practically from the very beginning of our life we were educated in this way.

Reporter: Oh, no, I understand that. I mean at what time did you have your own personal realization, Swamiji? At what age?

Prabhupāda: Well, that I can say from the age, say, four or five years.

Reporter: At the age of four or five years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gītā in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-kṣetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-kṣetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There are one hundred and eight Upaniṣads.

Kim: I don't know the pronunciations, that's the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Have you read Īśopaniṣad?

Kim: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.

Kim: I'm familiar with the name, but that's about all.

Prabhupāda: Give him Īśopaniṣad. Read from the beginning. Have you read this book? This is the first Upaniṣad that is read. Can you read Sanskrit?

Kim: No.

Prabhupāda: Transliteration?

Amogha: You just read the sound.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: To want to and to do it is different.

Prabhupāda: No, unless you are fully aware of my abilities, qualities, why should you surrender? (indistinct) So, before surrendering, one has to study the person where he is going to surrender. Then he surrenders. That is real surrender. And blindly surrender, that will not stay. So, our first business is to surrender to God; therefore we must know what is God. Then you must surrender. And, the emotion is good. That means you are advanced. If you understand that God is giving us everything. So, that emotion is very good. If one from the very beginning becomes emotional, "Oh, God is so kind. God is so great, that He is giving us everything, our necessities. I must serve Him." This emotion is very good. But for ordinary man, this emotion does not come. He wants to study what is God. Then when he fully understands, "Oh, God is so great." Then that emotion is very nice. That is genuine emotion. Otherwise emotion is sentiment. That will not stay. That will not endure. It is temporary.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing. Our Mr. Nanda is presenting another religion, mānava-dharma. Everyone is manufacturing. And Vivekananda is supporting, "Yes, every type of religious system is as good." This is nonsense. Actually, they do not know what is religion.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is the Bible..., we accept that as scripture, but is it all correct, or has it been mistranslated or...?

Prabhupāda: It is being misinterpreted still now. That means it was violated from the very beginning. And they are violating. "Thou shall not kill"; he is killing. That's all. That is the position.

Paramahaṁsa: They also have that "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what is the value now of this priestly class?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. We are different from this body. So unless we understand this point, our aim of life, our standard of civilization, is incorrect.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize. These leaders of the society do not encourage. Yesterday I was talking with one priest. So about illicit sex life he said that "What is the wrong there? It is a great pleasure." We are training, we are advocating that illicit sex is sinful. Our first condition is that one must give up these four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. This is my first condition before accepting. So they agree and they follow.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you will find defects. But if the devotees stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, these defects will soon become finished.

Revatīnandana: One thing specifically he wants to do in order to counteract this propaganda against the Gurukula which had serious impact, he wants to do some of this testing with the children in a way that is specifically done with children to show that these children are actually happy and they're developing nicely. He wanted to know if that would be permissable for him to do some testing at the Gurukula with the children.

Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: He says young people today have no sense of discipline. They don't know what it means to be...

Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places. So in this way, there is no sex in the vānaprastha. Simply the wife remains as assistant.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, of the monkey-class men. (laughter) That's all. Therefore you conclude that the man comes from monkey. That is the conclu... Human being, Vedic culture, they burn it. So they have no opportunity to see the human being skull. The monkeys, they do not burn. So he has seen only the monkey skull, and his conclusion is, "Man is from monkey."

Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one question. They would like to know why is it that the children are separated from their parents and sent to Gurukula?

Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men. So if, from the very beginning of life, one is trained... That is the Vedic civilization. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "One should be trained up to become God conscious from the very beginning of life," kaumāra. Kaumāra means after five years. Up to five years the children may have all freedom. Whatever he likes, he may do. But when he is five years old, he must be under training. That is the old system. Gurukula means to send the boy, especially boy, not the girl, to be trained up at the place of the spiritual master or teacher. Just like what is that public school? They also send their small children to the public school. Montesori? What is that?

Bahulāśva: Montesori school.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the small children are trained up. It is something like that.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Devotee (1): Just like Nanda Mahārāja, he also had land. Nanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident. They'll enter into the mouth of Aghasura. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is there. He will kill." This is Vṛndāvana. There is no need and I don't find in Bhāgavata big factory and slaughterhouse, no. Nothing.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Brahmācarya. Brahmācarya means completely cessation from sex life. This is brahmācarya. Tapasya begins, austerity. This is the greatest austerity, to cease sex. Tapasa brahmācarya. Our Vedic civilization, the boys are trained how to become brahmacārī from the very beginning of life.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, now, Gandhi's āśrama, was there any temple for worshiping Kṛṣṇa? No.

Dr. Patel: They had a temple. My wife was brought up there in the āśrama.

Prabhupāda: There was a temple?

Dr. Patel: In the morning they had to say prayer to Deva. (?) Gītā-mandir they had. They had all the characteristics of a good saint.

Prabhupāda: Why not from the beginning? No, no, no. Gandhi did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. No, yes, he has written, that "I know..."

Dr. Patel: Not that the way we believe, but he did believe.

Prabhupāda: No. That means he is right and we are wrong.

Dr. Patel: We may be right. We may be right. Who knows? Many ways may be right. It is not only that one way be right.

Prabhupāda: Then how we understand who is right and who is wrong?

Dr. Patel: There cannot be only one way. There are many ways.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no other way.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: ...own Christian priests, they asked me that "Why Christianity is dwindling? What we have done?" So I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughter)

Cyavana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "You have violated from the very beginning the orders of Christ, 'Thou shall not kill,' and you are killing, only killing. So what you have not done?"

Devotee 1: They say that man has to dominate over the animals. They should...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should kill and eat them. Very good reasoning. "The father should dominate over children; therefore the children should be killed and eaten up." So rascals, and they are professing religious leaders.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: I think he was also the same one who was saying the Aquarian Gospel was just somebody's dream.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?

Brahmānanda: That's why they're always bickering with one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no standard idea. I dream some way; you dream some way. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: No, why you should be misled?

Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?

Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...

Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.

Prabhupāda: Take for example our big leader, Mahātmā Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"

Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (break) ...is practical. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...because God does not want to come out and meet idiots. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. They obstructed so much, so it must be wall against those persons. From the very beginning they were obstructing. So therefore we raised the wall so that they may not come.

Dr. Patel: But the sādhus have not developed these faulty characters, as mentioned in Bhag...

Prabhupāda: But who is sādhu? First of...

Dr. Patel: All these sādhus: satyam, śaucam, abhaya, śānti, and all these things...

Prabhupāda: But sādhu... They are sādhu because they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Api cet sudurācaraḥ. Their case is different. But others, they are all asādha, asādhu. Kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. A man may be materially, academically very advanced, but Bhāgavata says, kuto mahad-guṇāh. Because he is not devotee, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. "Why? They have got so many qualifications; still, they are not great personality?" No. "Why?" Mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ: "They will only act on their mental platform, speculate." No fact. The fact is that he is soul. He has to change this body. That they have forgotten, and making big, big plan. This is... Prahlāda Mahārāja regrets, śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: (SB 7.9.43) "I am thinking of these rascals, fools." māyā-sukhāya: "For māyā-sukha," means the false or illusory happiness, "they are making some huge, gorgeous arrangement."

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We are talking of this verse, that if this is the composition of the body, these things are available anywhere. Why don't you create life? Therefore he is no better than the dogs. He has no intelligence that "How this combination of blood, urine, stool, and bone, and muscle can create life?" They are thinking that a combination of matter can bring life force. That is the so-called scientists' theory. So these things are available in large quantity, so why don't you create life? Therefore go-kharaḥ. Their intelligence is not better than the cows and the asses from the very beginning. If they are not cows and asses, how they can think of that combination of these material things can bring in life? When a man dies, find out if there is scarcity of stool or scarcity of urine or scarcity of blood. Bring it and inject it. These rascals, they cannot do it, and still they are calculating urine examination, blood examination and this examination. (laughter) No, I am not saying. It is śāstra. (laughter) Take this dead man's body, and whatever urine and stool is there, examine, and then inject, and come him, let him back, come to life. Then I will understand that your examination of the stool, urine is perfect. This is common question. So long the soul was there, you are very expert to examine stool, urine and this and that. But when the soul is gone... Now the stool is there; urine is there. Why don't you examine and give life? This is our challenge.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: There is no sādhu except Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Dr. Karttika Chandra Bose, he was a very big man. I was, under him, manager of Bose's laboratory. So from the very beginning my father was paying him two rupees fees. But when he became very big, still my father was paying two rupees. He was friend. So he refused to take. "No, no, no, you must be paid something." So he used to accept that two rupees. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: Two rupees in those days were lot of money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Two rupees, nowadays forty rupees at least. Twenty times. Just like ghee. You can... Ghee or gold. Gold standard. So in our childhood, I have seen our mother used to purchase gold for ornaments-twenty rupees.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Bhāgavata: Kṣetram ity abhidhīyate; that this body is known as the field. Etad yo vetti ta prāhu kṣetrajña iti tad-vidaḥ; that this body is known as the field and one who knows this field, he is the knower of the field, he is the knower of the body.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So how to explain, everyone is acting. How he is acting, on the field, that is stated next verse. Field of activities. In English it is called field of activity. That field of activity is this body. According to the body one begins his... Just like one born in the dog's body so the dog care... They, from the very beginning they are searching after a master. You have seen the small?

Hari-śauri: Pup.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They follow, some gentleman. And because at that time it is good living, somebody takes charge, "Alright let me take this pup." And the children also like, so he gets some shelter. So similarly, according to different body the activities begins. Therefore body is the field of activities. A snake, because he has got the field of activity of a snake's body, from the very beginning he is very, very envious. The same, trying to bite others. In this way our activities begin according to the body. And this change of bodies take place in the lower animal life automatically, by nature's law. Prakṛte kriyamānāni guṇai karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. But when comes to the form of a human being, on account of developed consciousness, he has got responsibility. He has to make his choice. He is suffering in this material world changing different types of bodies, one after another, and the propensity to lord it over the material world is going on. Now he has to change the consciousness, whether he wants to continue this propensity for lording over the material world, or he wants to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This choice has to be made by the human being.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...

Prabhupāda: No, why not to the...

Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.

Prabhupāda: Some idea...

Dr. Patel: That is great idea.

Prabhupāda: No. That is also imperfect. Anyway, it is something. Amānitvam adambhitvam: they from the very beginning of their life, they address other's wife as "mother," you see? Matrvat paridaresu. This is culture, to see every woman except his own wife as mother. Where is that culture?

Man: Mahātm Gandhi also changed his life after brahmacārī...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Man: Mahātm Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: We are talking of real mahātmās, not politicians.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So culture is the background for all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education is required to help culture. Not that you take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says:

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmāvat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Here is a description of paṇḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.

Dr. Patel: They are following the so-called advanced countries.

Prabhupāda: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.

Dr. Patel: So-called advancement.

Prabhupāda: Sex philosophy. This is their education. So how you can expect gentlemen? It is not possible. From the very beginning there is no culture, animal culture. Just like dogs, as soon as he finds another female dog, he wants to have sex. This is education.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And I say they have not gone to moon, that is my point. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: They have become "moonies."

Prabhupāda: The might have gone to some hell, that is, I have no objection.

Indian man: Or the moon or anything.

Prabhupāda: Huh? (laughing) This is a little revolting (revolutionary). But I am speaking from the very beginning. Yes, I wrote that Easy Journey to Other Planets in 1958, and you'll find this statement in my book. It is all childish.

Dr. Patel: You have to be yogi for that.

Prabhupāda: I am yogi because I am taking lessons from the yogis...

Dr. Patel: Yoga dhāraṇā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yogi, I am taking lesson from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. I may be fool, but I am taking lesson from the yogi. Yes. So yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir (BG 18.78). I don't require to be a yogi. I take shelter of the yogeśvara.