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Fourth-class men (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: If bhakti-yoga is the..., one can only understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga, why did Kṛṣṇa bother to explain karma-yoga and jñāna-yoga through so many...

Prabhupāda: Because there are third-class men, fourth-class men. They cannot understand bhakti-yoga immediately. But at last He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if you are intelligent. Sarva-guhyatam. Real knowledge is here. Sarva-guhyatamam. But He's proposing at last, "If by understanding all other ways, if he has come to know what is the actual knowledge..." That is the most confidential knowledge. That is not for everyone. How one can give up karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga? They cannot. But Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the most confidential. If you accept this, then it is to be understood you have knowledge." It is not for everyone. Find out this verse. Sixty-three, Eighteenth Chapter, I think. So take these notes, take these books and preach. You have taken all, sannyāsa. You preach.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Why should you desire anything?

Guru-kṛpā: Then they say, "Why you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is not desire. It is a natural. That is natural. Obedience to Kṛṣṇa, that is my natural business. Servant's business is always ready: "What can I do, sir?" This is not desire. This is natural position. He's not desiring anything. He's simply ready, "What can I do?" Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). That is, he's not desiring anything. Desire means when I want something for my satisfaction, that is desire. (break) ...mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya. He's simply expecting what spiritual master will order. Citta. Āra nā koriho... He has no other desire. That is desirelessness. (break) Desireless means a wooden stone. It has no mind, how it can de.... But every living entity has got mind, so this is desirelessness, that "I'll wait for the order of my master and immediately execute." That is desirelessness. .... (break) stop functioning, then what is the meaning of guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **? That means awaiting the order from the mouth of guru. Āra nā koriho mane. He has no other desires. That is to be under.... (break) Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...was as you say (indistinct).

Devotee (1): About the origin of the universe?

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (2): Chance theory.

Devotee (1): To prove that theory of chance.

Prabhupāda: And still they accept it?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Devotee (2): There's no evidence, because you've explained many times that an orange always comes from an orange tree, a banana always comes from a banana tree, man always comes from man, and monkey always comes from monkey. We find that actually things are not happening by chance. That they're very much controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is. Nobody can deny it. Only this tenth-class man will deny it. Even third-class man, fourth class, he'll not deny. But what is that intelligence, one should make it a science. Intelligence there is no doubt about it.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Rāmeśvara: So they can actually create, by their control, a depression.

Prabhupāda: Yes, money can buy. The real thing is money. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Money is the criterion in the Kali-yuga. If you have got money, then you don't require anything; you can purchase anything.

Rāmeśvara: Purchase justice.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. So therefore people are trying to get money somehow or other. Then he knows, "I get all power." The present struggle is everyone is trying to get more, more, more, more money. Because everyone knows if I get money then I.... (static) Just like the Beatles and others. Actually what they have got qualification? They have got money. (static) That's all. What qualification? Singer. Singer, according to Vedic culture, third-class, fourth-class man.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Many of the big parks in the big cities, they are full of thieves and all kinds of other people.

Prabhupāda: That means they cannot improve the condition of the people. Just like at the airport, everyone is checked. There is no gentlemen. Why everyone is checked? That means the whole mass of people, they're all rogues and thieves. Therefore it is necessary to keep an ideal, an ideal class of men brāhmaṇas. Then people will follow. But there is no such.... Everyone is coolie. That's all. Everyone is. They are making everyone coolie. Coolie civilization. One officer came to see me in Perth, Australia. So I told him, this is a civilization of fourth-class men. You remember?

Devotee (2): We heard the tape.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Devotee (2): You said there must be an ideal class of men.

Prabhupāda: There is no ideal class of men. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class.

Śrutakīrti: He accepted it also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you were present.

Śrutakīrti: Yes. At the finish he said, "Now I'm going back to my fourth-class friends."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): This man last night also, he admitted.

Prabhupāda: There is no first-class men. All fourth-class men. They do not know what is first-class men. If one has got money, then he's all right. That is Kali-yuga. No qualification. But if you have got money, then it is all right. You are big man. Money's everything at the present moment. People, they are trying to accumulate money by all means. Never mind first class, second class, third class, bring money any way. Rather, if one does not drink, he's a third-class man. And if one drinks, he's first-class man. Civilized. In India, formerly, any gentleman comes, a glass of water or two sandeśa was given. Now that is rejected. If a gentleman is not offered a bag(?) of wine and some chicken, then it is not proper reception. (break) ...building?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: A child that is born handicapped, intellectually handicapped.

Kern: Cannot walk nor talk.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another.... That is exceptional. Generally, anyone is born, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is born fourth class. When he takes his birth, it is to be accepted he's a fourth class. Now by training, you can make him first class, second class, third class. By birth, everyone is fourth class.

Kern: I saw a film of a leader of ours, Jean Vanye(?) from Canada and France. He took five thousand retarded.... In Spanish, we say (indistinct), to Rome just for the experience. And they were all in wheelchairs, old and young and small ones—not understanding very much, but a wonderful experience for them, the weak and the wounded.

Jayādvaita: (explaining to Prabhupāda) One priest took many handicapped people, who...

Prabhupāda: No, why you are speaking of handicapped? Who has taken the handicapped? Handicapped is handicapped.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Our program for them is also like this, to give them spiritual...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from that, we shall deal with the handicapped later on.

Kern: That's my, that's my...

Prabhupāda: First of all, we take the general people.

Kern: No, but you were saying that you speak, you are looking for the intelligent, the...

Prabhupāda: Not looking for. I am talking that anyone can be, I mean to say, elevated to the intellectual platform by training. Not the handicapped. Handicapped, there are special cases. That is another thing.

Kern: But...

Prabhupāda: Generally, everyone is born fourth class. Is to be understood. But by training such people you can make them division, first class, second class, third class.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Well, what? How you are dealing? You cannot. I told you that if your hand is cut, is it possible for me to add another hand in your body?

Kern: No, but...

Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?

Kern: So this is a development. Saint Ignatius did the same, somewhat. When he began, he sought the leadership. And he sought the intelligent, so that they might do what.... Obviously, you do it also, seeking the leadership that can then teach. We call it sometimes elitism, and this is perhaps a good word for it.

Prabhupāda: So you find out the verse, satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣā, the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Here, it is meant, the first class, second class, third class, fourth class. Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first class. Again repeat that.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness."

Prabhupāda: So why they should not be educated to become first-class men on this basis?

Scheverman: That's right. I would agree that that is a worthy and very important goal.

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution who is teaching these things?

Kern: He said that the monastery did not teach this. I don't know if you can generalize about all monasteries.

Prabhupāda: I don't say monastery. I'm speaking that this is the way of training. Even a third-class born or fourth-class born could become a first-class man. This training should be given. There must be an institution how to become peaceful, how to become truthful, how to become honest, how to become religious, how to become believer in God. Why not this institution? They have opened institutions how to learn to deal the hammer, technology. But if, in the society, there is no first-class man on this basis, then who will guide? If there is no brain, then who will guide the hand or the leg?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: So your particular plan is then to provide this kind of enlightenment, this kind of direction and education, through the ascetical process in which your group is involved. Yes. We, of course, have made efforts along this line through our schools and through our religious communities that have been successful more or less depending on efforts given to it.

Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas," or the administrators.

Prabhupāda: This is second class. They are not first class, they are second class. First class is above mentioned.

Scheverman: The brāhmaṇa

Prabhupāda: Yes, then second class. Second class also required.

Scheverman: Also requires training, yes.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if there is war. So first-class men, they cannot go to fight; they are not trained up. But the second-class man who is trained up.... What is that quality?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Courage in battle."

Prabhupāda: Courage in battle. Now we have got report that in Vietnam battles, what happened?

Hari-śauri: Whenever they fight, most of the soldiers run away.

Prabhupāda: Run away. (laughter) He's fourth class. He has been placed in the second class. So how he'll do the...

Scheverman: Yeah, but we have a principle called "A man tends to rise to the level of his incompetence." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These are the defects of the society at the present moment. A fourth-class, fifth-class man is on the first class or second class. Why Nixon had to be dragged down? He's a third-class man.

Scheverman: Third-class man.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Scheverman: That's rather high on the ladder, I'd say, Your Excellency. (laughter)

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: So I can see that this is probably an important element that appeals to most of the young people that come to you is this training that can be received in this particular way. I can also see too that somewhere..., I'd like to move into this area of religious experience.

Prabhupāda: I shall request that.... There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. Who cannot take up any training, they are fourth class. So how they should be trained up, that indication is there. It is not the question of Eastern and Western. You become peaceful...

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda wrote that on the bills, the monetary, on the coins or whatever, they put "In God We Trust," but actually no one understands. If you want to trust someone, then you have to know who that person is, you have to know that he's actually trustworthy. So he was asking that we could cooperate together, the American government and our movement, and we could train people practically how to trust God, like that. So Prabhupāda sent that letter. But that was a month ago, and there's still no reply.

Scheverman: To the Secretary of the Treasury? Is that it?

Devotees: The Secretary of the President.

Scheverman: The President, White House Secretary, his personal secretary.

Hari-śauri: So far, after one month, there's no reply.

Scheverman: Bureaucracy. We have lots of that. You may get a reply, and then again you may not. You'll get a reply, but it would be very general I presume, originally. It's a good idea.

Prabhupāda: No, I think that for the welfare of the whole human society.... America is opulent. They can start, that here is a college for training first-class men. Here is a college for training second-class men, and here is a college for third-class men, and balance fourth class. Fourth-class man doesn't require any training. They are simply to help the first class, second class, third class.

Kern: That would be difficult. (laughs)

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: That is one of the difficulties we have in this country. Everybody wants to be first class.

Prabhupāda: What is difficulty? You do not like to train first-class men?

Scheverman: Everybody wants to be first class.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so why not train him? If I simply by imagination, that "I have become first class," will that do? Simply by imagination, I have become a medical man, will that do? You must have training.

Scheverman: So you say put him in a training program, and if he can make it, okay, and if he can't make it, then he'll be..., he goes as far as he can in training program.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that process we can help. Therefore how to become peaceful.

Kern: Are all the people here first class?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are training them at least.

Kern: We're training them for first class

Prabhupāda: To become first class. Because there is a great need of first-class men.

Scheverman: Indeed there is, indeed there is.

Kern: Do you have any in training for second class?

Prabhupāda: No, for the time being. (laughs) We have no means. Suppose.... Second class means he must be courageous to fight. So I have no means how to train them, you see? And without training, the second class, if you send him to the war, the experience is they will flee away. The many enemies coming, and they are going away.

Scheverman: Are you training people to become teachers in this school, this process of education?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you become. Without being first-class man, you cannot teach. A second-class, third-class, fourth-class man is not meant for teaching.

Scheverman: Where would you do this teaching?

Prabhupāda: Teaching everywhere, wherever there is possibility.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to...

Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: Eighty percent of the people in the city are black.

Prabhupāda: And the white men, they are very much afraid of these black men. They have to be afraid.

Jagadīśa: They've taken over the city.

Prabhupāda: Without them, the factories cannot go on. That's all. The white men cannot work so hard. How they...? No gentleman can do that. This kind of work is meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore they cannot say anything. They require. And they know that their money will be taken away again by supplying them wine. They'll pay, and next moment, the wine merchant will take away. And the government will get huge profit without doing anything. And excise tax. Excise tax, government hasn't got to invest or do anything—simply take the tax.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Kīrtanānanda: How to save them is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Simply chant. This is the only. Give them chance to come and chant with us, take prasāda. Then after few days or few months, let them understand Bhagavad-gītā.

Devotee: We have all got this experience.

Prabhupāda: You have all got this experience. This is the only way. I started this movement on this determination, that they have nothing to give, simply by propaganda they are exacting so many people and befooling them. And I'll give them prasāda, nice chanting, and they will not come? They must come. This was my determination. And I began with this. So this is the only way. Give them chance "No talk, please come. Chant and dance with us and take kṛṣṇa-prasāda and go home."

Kīrtanānanda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons—no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Agriculture is the noblest profession. Give him some land, he cuts the wood, makes cottages. The land is clear, now till it, keep cows and grow foodgrains.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Doesn't put any local men out of work.

Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And what will be the benefit of classifying men according to their qualities?

Prabhupāda: Benefit will be then the whole thing will go in order. That is already described many times, that there must be brain, there must be arms, there must be belly, there must be legs for the complete composition of the body. If there is no brain, there is no head, then what is the use of these arms and legs and belly? It is all dead. So in the society, human society, if there is not a class of selected, truthful, honest, and so many brahminical qualifications, then society is ruined. Therefore they are perplexed. Everyone is a śūdra. Go to the factory. That's all. Go to the factory and bring money. And he is getting 25 dollars or 50 dollars daily and immediately purchasing wine and flat on Bowery Street. You'll produce such men, useless men, disturbing in the human society. You cannot make classless. If you make classless, naturally they will be all śūdras, fourth-class men. Then there will be society chaos.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and caṇḍāla. Caṇḍālas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the caṇḍāla class, they eat.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He is so rich(?) man. He cannot get nice food even, the primary necessity. Getting jaundice.

Jayatīrtha: The main reason why he doesn't.... I think he got jaundice because, he admitted, is that he had Ravi Shankar's brother cooking for him.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: He had Kumar Shankar, the brother of Ravi Shankar, cooking for him. So this man is a demon; therefore he is becoming sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are all drunkards, all third-class men, fourth-class men, low-class men. In India, this naṭas, they are third class, fourth class. Naṭas means the artist class, singer, dancers. They are meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. It was never taken by the.... They are called, and they will expertly sing, dance, in some festival. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they were not doing. Still in India there is a class, very expert in dancing, singing, low class. Their hereditary business is like that.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Devotee (1): You once told me that a brāhmaṇa must know how to do everything perfectly so that he can teach others.

Prabhupāda: That may be, you may be a teacher, but you'll remain only a worker. That is another thing. Just like Dronācārya, he taught, he remained a teacher. So we can become a teacher of a particular subject matter, but that does not mean you should be worker. Still, there are many professors, they are teacher, they are not worker. But if the teachers are available, why you should become a teacher? Let them teach. We have to save our time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, this, in the modern world they have invented so many varieties of occupations unnecessarily, to develop economic condition. Is it not? But our philosophy is that you cannot develop your economic condition than you are destined to suffer or enjoy. So one should not waste his time for so-called development of economic condition. He should utilize his time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was not possible in any other form of life. When we had cat's and dog's life, tree's life, we could not do that, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we have got human form of life, we should fully utilize it for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should we waste our time for economic development? Economic development is not possible. Then every work, every city, they are trying to develop this economic condition, but they're struggling. Why they word it of "struggle for existence" is there? It is not possible. Why there are varieties of social position? Everyone could come on the same standard. That is not possible. Anywhere you go, the three classes of men, upper class, middle class and lower class, is there. Is there any country where there is not these three classes, only the upper class? Is there any country? Then what is the use? Anywhere you'll go, you'll find this upper class, middle class and lower class. In the beginning, I thought that America, everyone is richer class. So when I came I saw the three classes are already there. The lower class, although the country has good facilities not to become lower class, still, voluntarily they are hippies, lower class. They are lying on the street. Although he has got very good opportunity to become first class, but he is lying on the street. Why? What is answer? British Empire, London, one is lying on the bench. New York, lying on the bench. There is no sufficient clothing? Why? Actually, he can live very comfortably, but why he's living in that condition? What is answer?

Harikeśa: It's his nature.

Prabhupāda: No, he has to live in that way. That is his destiny. You cannot change it by artificial ways. Even if he has got all the facilities, he will have to live like that. That is nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa saṅgo 'sya sad-asad janma yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is... So therefore there is no use of so-called improvement. And you cannot do it. This is a fact. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovido. Find out this verse. Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary. Your standard of happiness and distress must be there because you are destined by the laws of nature. You have to suffer although you are born in America. In New York you can get very comfortable life there; still, you have lie down on the bench, lie down. Although you are born of a rich man's family, you have to become hippies, lie down here. Who can check this? What is that law. Do they know it? But there is a law. There will be a first class, second class, third class, fourth class. You cannot check it. Huh? New York City? So cared for? Nasty road, streets. And always, every moment-dung dung dung dung dung dung dung dung, gu gu gu gu gu gu gu-fire. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. Fire is blazing. Despite all arrangement, fire is blazing. How can you stop it? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibaniśi hiya jvale. The blazing fire of poison is always going on. Taribāre nā kāinu upāya. And one has to make ways how to get out of this fire. That is intelligence. Read that.

Harikeśa:

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā
(SB 1.5.18)
Room Conversation -- September 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...one horse within the mouth—that is God. One hill. One Pūtanā, sucking the breast, her life goes. That is God. Why shall I take some cheap God? We are not so foolish. Here is the... So many great saintly persons hearing about God. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). They are fools, hearing about Kṛṣṇa? Such great, great personalities? And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is speaking. Are they fools? All of them fools? One, two may be fool. They were wholesale fool? All the great personalities, they're all fools? Asita, Devala, Vyāsa, Nārada—all big personalities. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—they're all fools? I may be fool. They are not fools. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Why shall I accept a rascal God? Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ (SB 2.1.1). "Oh, you want to hear about Kṛṣṇa?" Varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ. Śukadeva was praising: "Oh, glorious, you have taken... Yes." Here is God. Breathing, and innumerable universes are coming. Here is God. Sleeping and breathing is not unnatural. He is also. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ-like us. But like not us. He can breathe and... That is the difference. Breathing is common. I breathe, He breathes. That's all right. But His breathing, my breathing is not the same breathing. He eats, I eat. That's all right. But when He eats, Mother Yaśodā sees all the universes are within Him. They cannot understand this. That we are equal, that's all right, but there is difference. So far, I am a living being, He's also a living being, but He's supreme living being. How? Because I breathe, some dust comes and goes out, and when He breathes some universes come out. This is the difference. So because He is breathing and I am breathing, therefore equal. No. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but not like us. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. He's seeing every particular thing, anywhere. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu. I can see within my limit, or I can feel pains and pleasure within my... But He knows everything, everywhere. Sarva-kṣetreṣu. And because I cannot become like Him, therefore Māyāvādīs say kalpana, "This is imagination." He wants to make God like himself, and he wants to become like God. Therefore all description about God he thinks imagination, kalpana. Kalpana. Dr. Frog. Huh? More than this water, the...? How it is possible? Atlantic Ocean, very very big. What is that big? Maybe four feet, five, yes. Otherwise kalpana. It it is not within his "feet" estimation, then he's kalpana, imagination. This is their knowledge. (indistinct) I can think of three feet, four feet, five feet, ten feet, hundred feet-like that. And when I'm informed, "No, no, it is unlimited feet." Ah, this is kalpana. This is going on. So what other news? I have to send one letter to the governor. (break) Sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ. Yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan vipra mahad-guṇas tathā. Where this class of literature is now. Yathā sūtyām, in the maternity home or maternity room, Sūtyām. Abhijāta-kovidāḥ. The astrologers who can estimate the newly born child's destiny. Whatever they predicted, according to them, yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ samādiśan. They said that "This child will be like this"—exactly he became. Parīkṣid dvija-varya-śikṣayā, and being trained up by first-class brāhmaṇas, and the child came perfectly the king. Where is that king?

Hari-śauri: There're no kings.

Prabhupāda: Where is that President? They're all drunkards, woman-hunters, meat-eaters. Exactly according to prediction, he became a young man and he was entrusted the kingdom, "Now you rule." (chants verse)

tataḥ parīkṣid dvija-varya-śikṣayā
mahīṁ mahā-bhāgavataḥ śaśāsa ha
yathā hi sūtyām abhijāta-kovidāḥ
samādiśan vipra mahad-guṇas tathā
Each verse is a song. I wanted our students should do that.

Hari-śauri: To learn how to sing them nicely. To learn how to sing them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I can give them the tune. (chants first line of another verse) (break) ...ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā. This is Kali-yuga's king. Nṛpa-liṅga. Dressed like king. Nṛpa-liṅga-dharam, but śūdra. Nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā. Very expert in cow-killing.

Hari-śauri: That's a very accurate prediction.

Prabhupāda: Third-class, fourth-class men, dressed like President and king. Business: plunder money from the citizens and kill cow. 1965, 17 September, I landed at Boston.

Hari-śauri: You've done a lot of things since then.

Devotee: Changed the world.

Prabhupāda: Much water has gone down.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri:

annād bhavanti bhūtāni
parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
yajñād bhavati parjanyo
yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
(BG 3.14)

"All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by performance of yajña, sacrifice, and yajña is born of prescribed duties."

Prabhupāda: That's it. There is no prescribed duties. Everyone is a butcher. Formerly there was distinction, "Here is a butcher; here is a religious man." At the present moment everyone is a butcher. Who is religious man? There was division, at least one class, first-class man, second-class man, third-class man. Then, if there is ideal first-class man, even the fourth-class, third man, he'll take the idea, "Oh, here is first-class." But there is no first-class man. All fourth-class men. So who will give idea? And they want to remain fourth-class. If you say that "You become first-class," they will laugh. "What is the use of becoming first-class?" First-class means, find out, śamo damas titikṣā, then, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: And if I teach that "I'll teach you how to become truthful," they will laugh. People will say, "Can anyone exist nowadays, simply becoming truthful?" Then damaḥ, self-controlled. If I say, "Come here. I shall teach you how to control your senses," he will laugh, that "What is this nonsense? We shall enjoy life and shall control senses?" This is the description of the first-class man, śamo damas titikṣā ārjava, saralatā, simplicity. No one is prepared to become first-class man. They will laugh. These are all primitive ideas.

Dr. Kneupper: You think there is nobody like that?

Prabhupāda: Not nobody, there are. But people generally will not like, that "These are primitive ideas, to become truthful, simple, and controlling the mind, controlling... These are all imaginary things. How one can live in the struggle for existence by becoming truthful?" They will say like that. Therefore everyone is fourth-class. And the second-class man, kṣatriya?

Hari-śauri:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ
yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam
dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca
kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam
(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men. What he'll do? Everyone is trying to keep his position by hook and crook. How he'll think of the people? How they will be happy? He is thinking of his own happiness. And these are politicians. There is no kṣatriya. There is no brāhmaṇa. And there is no vaiśya. What is the vaiśya?

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Prabhupāda: Hm. A vaiśya means he should provide food. So food means agriculture and giving protection to the cows. If you have got sufficient food grains and milk, the whole food question is solved. And these rascals, they are not giving protection to the cows, but they are killing cows. So there is no third-class men even. All fourth-class. So how you can be happy under the control of fourth-class men? There is no first-class men, no second-class men, even no third-class. That means all fourth-class, fifth-class. That's all. This is the human society, combination of fourth, fifth, tenth-class men. Tenth-class. The fourth-class... There are fourth-class men and more than that, fifth-class men, uncivilized. Aborigines, they are fifth class. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). There are so many. In the human civilized... Civilization means there must be first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Then rest all fifth-class, up to tenth-class. But at the present moment there is some fourth-class men and all fifth-class, sixth-class, up to tenth-class. So how we can be happy? There is no first-class men, there is no second-class men, not even third-class men. Who is caring for agriculture? They are preparing Goodyear tire. Now eat tires. You rascal, eat tires. How long you'll eat tires? If there is no customer for tire, that means... So that is coming. And I went to Detroit about six months ago. There're factories. They have manufactured the wheels, huge stock. That means they are not selling. And the Goodyear Tire, they advertising, "So many millions tires we are manufacturing." You have been in Detroit? Yes. They're proud that "We have manufactured so many tires, so many wheels." The time will come when there will be no purchaser for tires and wheels, and they'll starve. That is coming. What they will do? If they become hungry there is no food grain. For some time they will eat, killing the cows, and then there will be no food, and what these tire and wheels will do? But there is no first-class brain that "We are wasting time by manufacturing tires and wheels. Without wheels we could live, but how we shall live without food grain?" There is no brain, no first-class men, no second-class men, no third-class men.

Dr. Kneupper: There are farmers who produce...

Prabhupāda: Well, in your country there is some adjustment because it is very big country and you are all intelligent people. In other countries they... But even though you have got resources, if you not properly utilize it, then the bad time is coming. You should expect. If your energy is all engaged in manufacturing tires and wheels, then who will go to the... Actually I have seen in your country. Now the farmers' son, they do not like to remain in the farm. They go in the city. I have seen it. The farmers' son, they do not like to take up the profession of his father. So gradually farming will be reduced, and the city residents, they are satisfied if they can eat meat. And the farmer means keeping the, raising the cattle and killing them, send to the city, and they will think that "We are eating. What is the use of going to..." But these rascals have no brain that "If there is no food grain or grass, how these cattle will be...?" Actually it is happening. They are eating swiftly. "The cattle will die. Before they die, let us kill and eat." Actually it is happening. In Italy they killed because the problem is twenty thousand cows. This is going on. They do not care that killing is sinful because they don't care for God. This is going on. And sinful, sinful, sinful, everyone will be punished. The nature's law will act. Tag wande gao(?) (Bengali) There is a Bengali proverb, tag wande gao(?), that "One man wanted to take statistics, 'How many thieves are there in this village?' So when he began to take statistics, he saw everyone is thief. Then he said that 'What is the use of making statistics? This is village of thieves, that's all.' " So it is... At the present moment this is the position. If you make a statistics who is sinful and who is not sinful, you will find all sinful. And because they are sinful, they decry the existence of God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... Find out this, seventh... Because they are all sinful, they deny the existence of God. This is the position. Read it.

Hari-śauri:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)
Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Is that a teaching of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should not eat meat?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... Meat-eating is third-class man's eating. It is not denied. Amedhya. But to give us our life, don't kill cows, because it gives you milk, very substantial food. If you want to eat meat, you can eat the hogs and dogs. But don't kill the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). This is special. It is not forbidding meat-eating, but don't eat cows' flesh. That is loss. It is a great loss to the human society. If they do not have sufficient milk production, then their brain will be dull. They will not be able to understand subtle things. Therefore it is better to avoid it. But if you cannot avoid, you can eat some inferior, useless animals. But don't touch the cows. This is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya. He never says, "Pig rakṣya." You can eat pig. You can eat the goats, the lambs. There are so many small useless animals. They are eating dogs also. The Chinese people, they eat dogs. So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother? You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence. But they do not know because uncivilized. Foolish fourth-class men. So we are trying to bring them to become first-class men, and they are accusing of brainwash. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." We are teaching that "These boys, they are becoming first-class." Anyone will worship them. How nice they look, how behavior, how their character. We are creating this, and they are accusing, "Oh, they are kidnapping our children." Why you are going? Eh? Why you are going?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So this is our position. Now you are philosophers. You try to understand the whole philosophy and combine together. People have become all fourth-class, tenth-class, uncivilized men. They should be given the idea of God consciousness. I don't say only in Western country. Everywhere this is the problem, all fourth-class men. So there is possibility to bring the fourth-class men to the first-class. That is educational. It can be done. There is no difficulty. So this is the education, how to make fourth-class men or fifth-class men to come to the first-class standard. What is that? Which verse I wanted?

Jagadīśa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In villages no sannyāsī starves. As soon as there is a sannyāsī in the village, so many villagers, "Baba, aiye, prasāda paiye. (Hindi)" Daily. Still in Punjab, any sannyāsī goes, he gets invitation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was in tīrtha... That is the system.

Girirāja: He couldn't fulfill all the invitations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: There were too many invitations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Dāśyu-dharma. Their business will be how to plunder. Because at the present moment the so-called democracy means, to tell the truth, all cunning, third-class, fourth-class men, they are doing. They have no sympathy for the general public. Their only aim is, so long he's in the office, gather as much money as possible. Am I right or not?

Mr. Asnani: Yes, sir.

Prabhupāda: That means plunder. So if you remain with no money, who will plunder? Because they are becoming plunderer, you remain without any bhūtīs.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: So, say like one point now that's coming up more and more is that these married couples, the women want a divorce or get another husband.

Prabhupāda: But we should not implicate.

Hari-śauri: So we cannot encourage divorce.

Prabhupāda: No. We do not meddle matters in that way very much. That is a sideline.

Rāmeśvara: And one thing about government that we see, at least in America, is that each time there is an election the candidates may make so many pledges, "I think I'll go this way."

Prabhupāda: No, election is going on under some rules and regulations, so you can make election under Kṛṣṇa conscious government rules and regulations. That can be done. Legislative assembly, the senators, they must be all first-class brāhmaṇas. Otherwise he cannot be elected. This is should be introduced. Unless one is following the brahminical principles, he cannot be elected. He must give up these four principles of sinful life. He should not accept any salary. Very much learned scholar in Vedic literature. Then he will be elected.

Rāmeśvara: That will happen one day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will guide the whole nation. The rascals, anyway, the naked and prostitute-hunter, what they can do? These third-class, fourth-class, tenth-class men are being elected. There is no happiness. There is no solution of problems. All tenth-class men. I directly challenged one gentleman that "You are all tenth-class men." Pāpa... Pāpa...

Hari-śauri: That man in Perth.

Prabhupāda: "There is no first-class man now governing the situation. All fourth class, fifth class, tenth class. There is no first-class man." I challenged him.

Hari-śauri: When he went out the door he said, "Oh, well, I suppose I'd better go back to my fourth-class life."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. You are already.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: In Vedic culture, kings like Parīkṣit Mahārāja were trained when they were very young.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So it seems...

Prabhupāda: They were trained by the first-class brāhmaṇas, saintly persons. They abided by their order. There was committee, advisory committee. Even at the time of his death, he's asking advice from the saintly..., "What is my duty?" That is king. He's not doing anything whimsically. And the first-class man should be first-class. Then second-class man, executive, kṣatriyas, they will force: "You must do it!" And then the third class, they should produce and carry out the order of the second class, king. And fourth class, they cannot do anything. Let them serve everyone, that's all, śūdras. They have no intelligence. But everyone is important, cooperatively. This is society. You require also legs; you require also heads. Simply heads will not help you. Head will give instruction, "Leg, please walk in this way." That's all, legs will move. He carries me. "Hands, give me protection." Immediately, "Yes!" A bad somebody(?) "Come on." Yes. Coming. "Belly, you produce food, sufficient, so that the legs, hands and brain, everyone will be provided with sufficient..." This way. This is society. All third-class, fourth-class men, simply going to the factory, and they are making laws. This is... What is called? Chaos. Chaotic society, no brain.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: (reading) "The real qualification is to become a devotee of the Lord, and gradually all the good qualities worthy of possession developed. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was a mahā-bhāgavata, or a first-class devotee, who was not only well versed in the science of devotion but also able to convert others to become devotees by his transcendental instructions. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was, therefore, a devotee of the first order, and thus he used to consult great sages and learned brāhmaṇas who could advise him by the śāstras how to execute the state administration."

Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?

Satsvarūpa: New President?

Prabhupāda: No, that Kennedy.

Satsvarūpa: Kennedy.

Prabhupāda: He was always associating with naked woman.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, it's been discovered.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And he is the President.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All bluffing.

Prabhupāda: All. So Manipur is a small state. If it is possible... Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I should ask some of them to...

Prabhupāda: Hm. If some of the leaders may come and see me. Just like the governor of Chandigarh. He's nice man. He came to see me in his governmental position with his aide-de-camp, car and men. So I think Manipuri people... And it is a Vaiṣṇava state. Why not make it Kṛṣṇa conscious? They are already Kṛṣṇa conscious. Make it in a systematic way.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was amazed to see how much you translated last night. You translated more last night than in months, almost two hundred digits. I think it was 190. I think eating these pakorās at night is giving you strength.

Prabhupāda: No, not that. Something must be eaten. I was feeling weakness in the evening. But what can I eat? I have no taste for fruits. Milk also, not very much taste I have got. Naturally I won't eat now(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have a taste for nim?

Prabhupāda: That is compulsory. Whatever little benefit is there in the leaf of nim... Still, I have got taste for nim begun(?). You like that? I think I shall take little, little milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Milk.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will give strength. Milk produce strength. And it is suitable for everyone: children, diseased, invalid, old men. It is such a nice food. Everyone in any condition can get some benefit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're getting fairly good milk now.

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we were reading today how the wife of Rāvaṇa, when she saw her husband, she was addressing him as "The king of the asuras, how you have given everyone trouble. And now surely your body will be eaten by vultures and you'll go to hell." So Nava-yogendra Mahārāja was commenting that now..., at that time there was only one Rāvaṇa; now the whole world is filled with Rāvaṇas, and they're all going to go to suffer the same fate. Of course, we may be able to give them the opportunity of this movement, reading your books. That may be their only chance.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Yes? Next person? (break) (Bengali) By passing wind if there is somebody benefit, they'll not pass. Such a low-grade man. Therefore they are ruined, those men. There is not a single upright. You cannot expect that they will willfully, willingly...

Jayapatākā: No, we'll get that by hook or by crook.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is only... Sathe sārthaṁ samācaret.(?) They are first-class cheater. We shall cheat them. (laughter) Don't worry. This is only... They have ruined the institution, all third-class, fourth-class men.

Jayapatākā: He knew that it was right. He couldn't deny it. But he has got no power to... No willpower.

Prabhupāda: No power? No, he has power. He'll not do. He has power.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, that's what I mean. He has got no personal character to do it.

Prabhupāda: No. He has power.

Jayapatākā: He wrote it, "No one can say otherwise."

Prabhupāda: No... That is only way. Just take it. Let it happen only. Then we shall see. But he'll not do that because they are very, very cripple-minded, mean-minded, and by hook and crook they have... And what they have done? For the last fifty years they are working in Caitanya Maṭha. There is not even a nātha-mandira.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even the government is behind this research. NASA and federal funding government, they spend billions of dollars on this research.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then what is the government? Another combination of rascals, that's all. They have no knowledge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of them are also beginning to feel that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that must...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...there is something wrong...

Prabhupāda: That must be.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...with the whole approach.

Prabhupāda: That must be there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like there is a physicist in Princeton. His name is Dyson, Freeman Dyson(?).

Prabhupāda: That is inquisitive, jijñāsu. That is there, a class of men, jijñāsu. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. They are pious. "Actually what is the truth?" Jijñāsu. And jñānī. Two third class, fourth class, and two, first class, second class. The first class, second class, is jñānī jijñāsu, and third class, fourth class, ārto arthārthī. They approach God. The third class, fourth class, those who are in need of money or in distress and seeking the favor of Kṛṣṇa, they are third class, fourth class. And the jijñāsu and jñānī, they are first class, second class. Inquisitive, they want to know the truth. That is first class. Jijñāsu—"What is that first class?" He is second class. And ārto arthārthī, he is in need. If he gets some money, then he forgets God. That's all. His disease is cured. Then finished business. "O God, give us our bread." As soon as I get bread, then finished church.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So people were inclined to send their children to gurukula. Now they are inclined to send their children to cinema, this, that... A difficult task, to institute. Loafer class, they should be trained up as śūdras, in carpentry, moving(?)... It doesn't, do not require academic education. Simply make a skill. They'll learn.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not after the loafer class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not loafer. They are also useful. But they are... Bringing them to the education, university, they are becoming loafer, ironclad. As soon as the low-class men are given education, he thinks, "Now I have become educated, baḍa bāpu. Why shall I work as a carpenter? I must have credits here." And they're bribing in government office, and sixty percent of the clerks-useless. They do not know how to make file, cumberous. Because everyone is going in New Delhi. And all fourth-class men are admitted. I have seen. If you have to find out an old file, you have to wait six months. Because these people are neither for this purpose nor that purpose.

Page Title:Fourth-class men (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas
Created:26 of Apr, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=35, Let=0
No. of Quotes:35