Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended.
Formerly (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after taking leave from His mother, left Bengal towards Orissa, and on the entrance of the district of Balasore there is a nice temple called Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple. And He saw the temple. Here the scene is to be arranged that there is nice temple and within the temple there is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity, Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The pūjārīs are there, ārati is being taken place, and at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu entered with His followers chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He saw the Deity and danced before Him. And when the ārati was finished, prayer was finished, then He sat down, talked with His associates, Nityānanda and Gadādhara and Murāri. So Nityānanda Prabhu described about the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, the story of Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. It was very nice story, that formerly one ācārya, Madhavendra Purī came to this temple, Gopīnatha, and while that condensed milk which is called kṣīra was being offered to the Deity, Madhavendra Purī wanted to taste it so that he would also prepare such condensed milk and offer to his Gopāla. So after that he thought, "Oh, it is being offered to Kṛṣṇa and I wanted to taste it. So I am so greedy." So he left the temple, that "I am not worth to visit this temple." He went outside the temple and sat down underneath a tree and was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Nityānanda was going with Lord Caitanya.
Hayagrīva: Narrated this to Lord Caitanya? Nityānanda narrated this to Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, how the Deity was known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The story was narrated that formerly He stole one...
Hayagrīva: Condensed milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pot of condensed milk for His devotee.
Hayagrīva: Now what direct relationship does this have to Lord Caitanya?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya also visited. Anyone in those days going to Jagannātha Purī from Bengal they had to pass that way. And on the way the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple is there. So everyone used to visit. So formerly Madhavendra Purī, he also visited, and for him the Deity stole the condensed milk. From that time He's known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. That story was narrated to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So while sitting before the Deity, the story was narrated and Caitanya Mahāprabhu relished it that God is so kind that sometimes He steals for His devotee. This is the significance of this. So here the scene should be arranged that very nice temple, the Deity within, and Lord Caitanya entered while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saw the worship, ārātrika. These things are to be shown in this scene. And a little story about Him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: I'm spelling. V-i-j-a-y N-r-i-s-i-n-g-a G-a-r-h. Vijaya Nṛsiṁha Garh temple. This is near modern Visakhapatnam shipyard. There is a very great Indian shipyard, Visakhapatnam. Formerly it was not Visakhapatnam. So near that, five miles away from that station there is that nice temple on the hill. So I think that the temple scenery may be there and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's visiting that temple. And after that temple He came to the bank of river Godavari. Just like the river Ganges is very sacred river, similarly there are others, four other rivers. Yamuna, Godavari, Kṛṣṇa, Narmada, Ganga, Yamuna, Godavari, Narmada, and Kṛṣṇa. These five rivers are considered very sacred. So He came to the bank of Godavari and He took His bath and was sitting in a nice place underneath a tree and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the meantime He saw that a great procession was coming, and that should be the scenario of this... In that procession... Formerly the kings and governors, they used to take bath in the Ganges with their paraphernalia, band party and many brāhmaṇas and all kinds of charitable things. In this way they used to come to take bath. So Lord Caitanya saw that somebody is coming in that great procession, and He was told about Rāmānanda Rāya, the governor of Madras province. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya requested Him that "You are going to South India. You must meet Rāmānanda Rāya. He's a great devotee." So when He was sitting on the bank of the Kaveri and Rāmānanda Rāya was coming in procession, He understood that he is Rāmānanda Rāya.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You can sit down. So everyone is working. Never mind in whatever occupation one is engaged. That doesn't matter. But one has to test whether he is becoming successful. Because everyone wants success. We are not animals that without any success we shall work hard labor. That is animals' business. Just like several times I have given the example, dophara gadha, the ass of the washerman. That kind of business and work is no use. Dophara gadha, ass of the washerman. Here, of course, you have no experience. In India there is a class who are called washermen. In India there are different castes. Washerman, a class; barber, a class. I mean to say... So many departmental. So each and every one, there is a class who take up that work. Sweeper, a class. All the necessities. The clerk, even clerk, there is a class; priest, there is a class; the fighter, there is a class. That is nice arrangement. In India... And florists, there is a class, florist. Their business is simply to supply flower. Fisherman there is a class; butcher, there is a class. Just like we have got a temple, now we require potter. Potter, there is a class. In Jagannatha temple the arrangement is that... One does not know since how long... (someone enters) Come on. In Jagannatha temple... Sit down. Jagannatha temple, the prasādam is cooked every day in new earthen pot. No old pot is used. Once used, it is thrown away. Formerly, this was the system in India.
Nayana Abhirāma: Could you tell us about something about Lord Caitanya's production of Vaiṣṇava drama? Are there any of the plays that you know are still extant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was playing Vaiṣṇava drama in His household life, rather in student life, and He was taking the part of Rukmiṇī, because He was very beautiful young boy. Formerly, in our childhood also, we saw in drama there was no females taking part. If there was a female part, the man would be dressed just like a female. Formerly females are not allowed. If one has to find out a female for taking part in drama, then he has to find out from other quarters, not in respectable part. Now, very, very respectable, educated girls are taking in drama and cinema in India. Formerly this was not possible. And perhaps in the theatrical performances, stage, that was introduced by Lord Caitanya, drama. But His dramatical performances were limited within the devotees. He will not allow to take part in the performance who is not a devotee.
Journalist: Now do you say that the moon is, so to speak...? What should I say? Headquarters, where these demigods live?
Prabhupāda: No, there are many planets on the same level. There are many planets. Moon is one of them.
Journalist: Have any of these demigod creatures visited the earth or...
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to because at that time people were worth to see them. You see?
Journalist: When you say formerly, you mean thousands of years ago or...
Prabhupāda: No. At least five thousand years ago.
Journalist: At least, five thousand years ago the last time that any, that we would... Are they in human form?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So far we get information, sometimes great sacrifices were performed, and demigods from other planets, they were invited, and they used to come.
Journalist: Where...? Where...? And this is... Your authority for this statement is based in the Vedic literature?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I ask all my disciples to get married. I don't allow these boys living with boyfriend, girlfriend. No. You must get yourself married, life like gentlemen, treat your wife as assistant, treat your husband as your provider. In this way, I am teaching them. This boy was married just four days before. He is professor. So I have got so many of my disciples married, and they are living very happily. This girl is married. Formerly, they were living with girlfriend, boyfriend. I don't allow that. I don't allow that.
Journalist: Well, let's... Let me get a little more basic. How about when someone is fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old?
Prabhupāda: The same thing. Of course, another thing is that we teach our boys to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī means how to lead the life of celibacy.
Journalist: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Just Howard explain brahmacārī life.
Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.
Journalist: I see, I see. So you have been, in a sense, spreading this word since 1933 on your own.
Prabhupāda: No. I'm spreading as missionary since nineteen hundred..., practically since '59.
Journalist: '59, I see. What did you do from the time...
Prabhupāda: I was a householder. I was doing business in medicine. Formerly, I was manager in a big chemical firm. But I was cultivating this knowledge although I was householder. I was publishing this Back to Godhead...
Journalist: So you were publishing that...
Prabhupāda: In India.
Journalist: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I started in 1947 under the order of my spiritual master. So whatever I was earning, I was spending. I was not getting any return, but I was distributing. So I was doing this business since a long time. But actually after giving up all connection with my family, I'm doing this work since 1959.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Cow, yes. And in Vedic literature you'll find, a man is... Richness of a man is estimated by the possession of grains and cows. Dhanyena dhanavān. If he has got sufficient quantity grain, then he's to be... Formerly, even still in India, when a daughter is offered to a family, they will go and see how many morais(?) there are. Grain stock. If he sees that he has five, six, big, big grain stock, then he can... "Oh, this is nice house." You see? "They can feed." So in India still, the arrangement is that every family has got at least two years grain in stock. You see? And cow at least one dozen. No economic problem. And actually, that is the fact. You keep cows and have sufficient grains, whole economic problem solved. Eating. And sleeping, you can take some wood and four pillars. Of course, in your country it is not...
Allen Ginsberg: It's very cold.
Prabhupāda: Very cold. (laughing) India, all the year they are lying on the flat sky.
Allen Ginsberg: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Formerly, in Europe they were also living.
Allen Ginsberg: Man lived this way for 20,000 years, 30,000 years until the 19th Century.
Prabhupāda: So we have to live that. Plain living, high thinking. The necessities of this bodily existence, that should be minimized and not unhealthy. Healthy. To keep oneself fit. But the time should be utilized-develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Then his whole problem is solved. Here is the big man.
Allen Ginsberg: Young devotee.
Kīrtanānanda: Haribol.
Prabhupāda: How many rounds you chant?
Child: All rounds.
Prabhupāda: Only one round?
Child: All round.
Prabhupāda: "How is that, that you can repeat? How is that?" "Oh, that is grace of mother Sarasvatī. Just like you can compose a hundred verses within a few minutes, I can, whatever you say, I can remember immediately." Formerly that was the system of understanding Vedas, śruti, simply by hearing. Once they hear from the spiritual master, they will remember. The memory was so sharp. Therefore this brahmacārī system is so nice. They can enhance their memorizing power, brahmacārī.
Allen Ginsberg: Did Caitanya, did Lord Caitanya worship Sarasvatī? No.
Prabhupāda: No. He was Vaiṣṇava. But every demigod is worshiped. It is not that one should neglect...
Allen Ginsberg: Oh, respect. He respected.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, governor's house.
Haṁsadūta: It's surrounded just like a...
Prabhupāda: A big garden. Yes. That was viceroy's house. Now it is dilapidated. Otherwise, formerly it was very, very nice. Huge palace in India. Lord Collier's policy was to bring one of the princes from England and make him king of India.
Haṁsadūta: King of India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his policy. He favored that policy, that Indian people are in favor of monarchy. So introduce this system: one of the royal family's son should come and become king of India. That was good suggestion. If Britishers would have ruled India for the interest of India, making one king from the royal family, it would have been great success. That policy of Lord Collier was very nice.
Haṁsadūta: That never happened.
Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit.
Revatīnandana: When they want to come back, is it very easy for them to come back or have they got to...?
Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.
Revatīnandana: I have a hazy memory that one time I heard that when a soul, when it finally does enter into brahma-jyotir, that he has to remain there for some long duration of time, a daytime of Brahmā or a lifetime of Brahmā. Is that correct? What is that duration?
Prabhupāda: Not that. That is not like that.
Prabhupāda: How far it is?
Haṁsadūta: It's supposed to be just in the neighborhood.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all. He was formerly prince.
Revatīnandana: Of this area?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: He had given (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is the sign of princely opulence.
Revatīnandana: He's the son of the man we saw last week? This Mahārāja? It's not his son?
Prabhupāda: No, no, he is also old man.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...
Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change.
Mohsin Hassan: My master, many people are interested to know something about you, and I found just not enough to know about you, and I could write volumes about your life. Could you (indistinct) about your life?
Prabhupāda: Well, a sannyāsī should not be inquired about his life. What he's acting, that's all. But I was formerly gṛhastha, householder, that's all. My life is described in short in the Īśopaniṣad, so you can see it from there.
Mohsin Hassan: Could you recall the beginning of your first trip to USA and how you spread the message? I was told that you came here with six dollars, and then...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.
Revatīnandana: It's nice because here people will listen. In India they won't listen, and in America they can't listen. They're so degraded. (end)
Śyāmasundara: Bhagavad-gītā-did it take place? There was a battlefield of Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is historical. Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means the history of Greater India. Mahābhārata.
Dr. Weir: Mahābhārata.
Prabhupāda: This Mahābhārata means, mahā means greater. Formerly 5,000 years ago, the whole planet was called Bhārata, India. India it is now called. Actually the name is Bhārata. Bhārata is the name given after the reign of Mahārāja, one King Bhārata. He was the ruler, emperor, of the whole world. After his reign this planet is called Bhārata, this whole planet, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata is Greater India or Greater Bhārata. The headquarter was in India but it was greater, according to Mahābhārata history and this Bhagavad-gītā is given there in the Mahābhārata. Therefore it is history. And actually it is historical because the battlefield is still existing...
Dr. Weir: In the mind...
Śyāmasundara: No, it's there, Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Kurukṣetra, battlefield.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was going on tour of the Western countries, he saw one black man was trying to kill one cow. He immediately took his sword, ""Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" So that culture we have lost. Immediately he began, "With this sword I shall kill you."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There was monarchy, the kings were very responsible. Therefore, the kings were known as rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, rāja ṛṣi, rājarṣi, this is compound word. (indistinct) king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a ṛṣi, (indistinct) great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore... Also Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).
But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings.
Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was. A town crier.
Prabhupāda: Trumpeting.
Śyāmasundara: They call it town crier.
Prabhupāda: Town crier, yes, yes.
Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they... Just like in Russia we are afraid or China, yes. They will immediately arrest. So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na, no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government... Our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russians, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russians, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.
- venasyāvekṣya munayo
- durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam
- vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ
- kṛpayocuḥ sma satriṇaḥ
- (SB 4.14.7)
So all the great sages and saintly persons, brāhmaṇas, they assembled together and began to consider, "Now what to be done? This rascal king has declared like this and making things hellish, what to do?" This is the problem of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more Godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no need to make this propaganda all over the world.
So therefore, a saintly person duty is to protect the praja, the citizens, in a system so that they may become happy both materially and spiritually. This is one of the duties of the saintly person. Not that let me go to Himalaya and press my nose and I become liberated. This is not saintly person. This is not saintly person. Saintly person means they should be interested with the public welfare, real public welfare. And public welfare means every citizens should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then they will be happy both materially and spiritually. My point is that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not selfish movement. It is the most philanthropic movement. But people in the name of philanthropic movement generally, because they are not actually saintly persons, they collect money and live.
Prabhupāda: Because India, the caste system is very strong. So a brāhmaṇa will never accept a girl born into a śūdra family, although in śāstra it says that you can accept. (Sanskrit) means family member is respectful. Your family consideration is very... During marriage ceremony, the family consideration is very strong. Now that is dwindling. Formerly, family traditions, then horoscope. The so-called love was not given any importance, the so-called love. As in other countries the boys select wife or girls selects... No. There is no importance on this. The father, mother will see the horoscope, whether this boy and girl will agree according to the horoscope. Rāja-yoga(?) There are some calculations, astronomical calculations, from his birth, from her birth, and the expert astrologer will select, "Yes, this boy and this girl will be happy." Then they are married. If there is any discrepancy, they will deny, "No." These were the considerations. Then family tradition. What is the tradition of the boy's father's family, mother's family, so many things they calculate, then the marriage settlement, "Yes." And the boy might not have seen the girl. There is no necessity of the boy seeing the girl or the girl seeing the boy. There is no necessity. After marriage, when the marriage ceremony is performed, then the boy and girl can see one another: "Oh, she is my wife." (laughter) "He is my husband." That. (aside) So. You can begin. Oh, this is another magazine, Earth.
Bhūrijana: South China Morning Paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.
Sudāmā: So we should take the Deity prasādam and our prasādam and go to all the houses?
Prabhupāda: No no. You invite them, that "Anyone, you are welcome. Take prasādam." We can announce. Then you can judge how many people are coming daily. You should announce that "Anyone can come and take prasādam at noon." It is the duty of a gṛhastha to loudly cry, "If anyone is hungry, please come. We have got still food." That is the duty of a gṛhastha. If one does not come, then the chief of the house, he takes prasāda. If somebody says, "I am hungry," so he should offer his own food. "You eat." This is duty of gṛhastha. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanti. Those who are cooking for themselves, they are simply eating sinful things. That's all. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). So hospitality is one of the duties of the householder. Atithi. Atithi means guest without any information. That is called atithi. Tithi means date. So if I go to your house, I inform you that "Such and such date I am coming there." But atithi, he does not inform you, all of a sudden comes. So you should have to receive him. That is called atithi. Pāntha. People are moving... Formerly, if some of the walkers in the street, suppose he has become hungry, so he enters anyone's house. So "I am hungry sir. Give me something to eat." He'll immediately, "Take." Pāntha-bhāga. There is a stock of foodstuff which is called pāntha-bhāga. If somebody comes all of a sudden, he should take.
Prabhupāda: So you come to again to the original. Yes. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are teaching no animal killing, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. All my students, they are strictly following these principles all over the world. They are American, Europeans. So I have got students all over the world. Some of them from Christian, Buddhist also. I have got Japanese, Chinese, my students. Perhaps you have seen one of my students. His name is Bhānu. Formerly what was his name?
Sudāmā: Bruce Enimoto.
Prabhupāda: Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (two men speak in Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: In our religion also, the priests are vegetarian, but it is not for all.
Prabhupāda: Only priests? Only priests?
Dai Nippon representative: Priesthood. Priesthood. (Japanese) It has somewhat changed now.
Prabhupāda: We are all priests because we are preaching. All my students and myself, we are preaching. We are on the priestly level. So our philosophy is ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone has got some professional or occupational duty. Just like you are printer. We are preachers. Somebody is something else.
Karandhara: He's asking how can he be relieved from such sadness when his son has died? How do we evaluate death?
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So our program is that, as I have already explained, the success of everything depends how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you want, He will give you, benedict. I will give you one instance. It is stated in Kṛṣṇa Book. Kṛṣṇa was a student of Sāndīpani Muni. So when Kṛṣṇa finished His education, it is the system that the disciple gives some, I mean to say, reward, presentation to the spiritual master, because he has educated. So the disciple requests his spiritual master, "Now I have finished my education. I am going home." Formerly the student used to live with the spiritual master. "So how can I serve you?" So at that time the spiritual master, whatever he wants, the disciple will supply. So in the case of Kṛṣṇa, the teacher knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So when Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma asked his teacher, "How can I satisfy you?" so they requested, "My dear boys, I lost my child very young. If you kindly bring them, then I shall be very much pleased." So Kṛṣṇa went underneath the sea and brought his son back. This incident is there. So my point is that whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing. So every thoughtful man should come forward to understand this movement and take it seriously. Why are the people being misled? We just have to try to understand this philosophy, the basic principles of God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. So after retirement he, under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came to Vṛndāvana.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī. So formerly they were living under trees. That I have already described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Later on, when Jīva Gosvāmī constructed this temple, he is nephew and disciple, at that time Rūpa Gosvāmī also, he lived with his disciple. Actually, this temple belongs to Jīva Gosvāmī, and Rūpa Gosvāmī's temple is at...
Śyāmasundara: We saw it.
Prabhupāda: ...Govindajī.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: And Sanātana Gosvāmī's temple is at Madana-Mohana. But when Jīva Gosvāmī was here, naturally—they were elder uncle—so lived together, and because they, all of them lived here, so other Gosvāmīs, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, all of them used to meet here. And Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī used to live (indistinct), and all other Gosvāmīs used to be here. And this is explained, Rūpa Gosvāmī bhajana, that chant (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Are those rooms you live in, were they formerly inhabited by the Gosvāmīs, Jīva or Rūpa Gosvāmī, those rooms you have now?
Prabhupāda: These rooms?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No.
Śyāmasundara: These came after that time.
Prabhupāda: This is..., rooms were existing, but they used to sit down here.
Devotee (1): Was Vṛndāvana mostly...?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) In this place, all the six Gosvāmīs used to sit down and read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Śyāmasundara: At that time Vṛndāvana was existing as a village or mostly open area?
Prabhupāda: Formerly, before Lord Caitanya's coming here, this was open fields. Nothing...
Śyāmasundara: So everything has been built up.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So after the Gosvāmīs came here, practically, all this Vṛndāvana city has developed. Before that, it was open fields. (Hindi) You developed this photo here in India also?
Devotee (1): Ah, some of it.
Indian man: At least mine and Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: You send some copies here.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You can take one photograph alone. Have you got (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: This man here. This man.
Devotee: Where?
Śyāmasundara: Right here. Is he one of your old friends?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This was formerly a ghāṭa. (Hindi)
Śyāmasundara: Oh. There's Yamunā out there, is it not?
Indian: (Hindi) Here is the footprint of Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Śyāmasundara: Accha.
Indian: He stepped here. Big!
Śyāmasundara: It's very large, large.
Prabhupāda: (to passer-by) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Devotee: Jaya.
Śyāmasundara: Lord Caitanya was very tall, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Locana: If scientists really believed that they were just made out of matter, then there wouldn't be any question of one scientist's thinking he's a person better than another person cause there wouldn't be any individuality, if they believed everything was just atoms and matter.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Now here is a matter. Why leaves and twigs are not coming. Formerly it was coming. What is the difference?
Locana: The spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: The same, it has grown green, and vegetation. Now the same wood is there. Why it is not coming now? Let scientists explain this.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That simply shows how ignorant the understanding is.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say rascals, simply.
Karandhara: Well they would say the chemical composition has been changed.
Prabhupāda: All right, give the chemicals. You are now advanced in knowing the chemicals. Inject the chemicals.
Prabhupāda: That means nonsense, that there is something else. Because the same tree, now it is growing, watering, but when it will be dead, you pour water... The medicine is the same. Why it is not doing now, and why it was doing formerly? Then what is the thing that is lacking in it?
Brahmānanda: Similarly, if there's a dead body and they just add some chemicals, that doesn't necessarily mean it will come alive again.
Prabhupāda: No. No. Chemicals are already there. If you say that the chemical is the cause of life, that chemicals are there. Because other lifes are coming. How do you say the chemical is wanting.
Brahmānanda: Don't they say that when death means chemicals are gone...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Brahmānanda: ...breakdown?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The life, the life energy, the heart...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Life energy, what is the cause of that life energy? Chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Satī dharma. Yes. Formerly, even Arjuna's stepmother, Mādrī, he also, she also died with her husband. That was the system. The wife voluntarily used to die along with the husband.
Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī, wife of Dhṛtarāṣṭra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So later on such devoted wife was lacking. So the system was, some cases, they were forced to die. So these things have been elaborately explained in the, that book, and Britishers stopped it. So the Indians were uncivilized. Britishers made them civilized. Everything was misinterpreted. Yes.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...things of value, they're disappearing. Just like formerly people used to have some dishes of valuable metals. Now it is plastic. This is the advancement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It's...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's what they call.
Prabhupāda: Rascals, they are thinking it is advancement. And if he goes to sell the plastic plates, nobody will pay even cent. But one of those metal plate, if he's in difficulty, he can get some money. This is scientific advancement. Instead of gold coins, now there is papers: "I trust in God. We trust in God." Cheating, "We trust in God." Take hundred dollars. And what is this hundred dollars? It is paper. "We trust in God." By the name of God, I give you. And it is scientific. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Oh, five thousand dollars. She has got some assets. That is called strī-dhana. Strī-dhana means "woman's property." Nobody can touch it. Only, according to Manu-saṁhitā law, strī-dhana... Now they are changing. Strī-dhana, the son cannot touch, the husband cannot touch. Nobody can touch. But, after her death, the daughters will share that money. Because formerly, the daughters could not get share of the father's estate. Only the dowry which is given by the father at the time of her marriage. That much. But she could not claim any estate share. Therefore at the time of marriage, the dowry by ornaments, saris. Hundred pieces of sari. If one is rich man. All Benarsee sari, costly. And woman's nature is that if she gets good ornaments, saris, good food, she's satisfied. She doesn't want anything. She'll never become faithless to her husband. So these things are disappearing. Now rich man, rich man's wife, no ornament. (indistinct). Only the widows, they were without ornaments. Any woman who has got husband must have ornaments. Otherwise, insult. So individual liberty, individual prosperity, everything is disappearing. By the scientific improvement. That's all. This is the net result. Now in your country, that... What is that? Draft board? Eh?
Karandhara: Draft board?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Calling young men to fight.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system. Not that we go on arguing for hours, and one is defeated; still, he remains the same. No. If you are defeated, then you must accept the other party as your master. That was the system. As soon as he said that I do not know, he should have become your disciple. That is the system. "If you do not know why you have come to teach me."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He should come and become a disciple of Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, Prabhupāda... No. We want everyone to become Kṛṣṇa's disciple. That is our mission. We are disciplic succession. The original master is Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Due to medical science, death is...?
Brahmānanda: Decreasing. People are living longer.
Prabhupāda: It is all nonsense. Who lives now hundred years. Thirty, forty, fifty, finished. It is another nonsense. At the present age, does anybody live like his grandfather? No. No. That's not a fact. At the present moment the maximum years-eighty years. Formerly they were living a hundred years. My grandmother lived for ninety-six years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They take a statistical average, they call. That means the average number of people living now, they have longer lives, on the average.
Prabhupāda: Average duration of life in India is thirty years. Thirty years. It has decreased. (end)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: No. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). He is so complete that one minus one equal to one. That is Absolute. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is expanding Himself by so many energies, but Kṛṣṇa is the same. There is no loss in His energy. Even in a human being or animal, he produces so many children. Just like hog—he produces at least one dozen children every year, but the hog is the same. If a hog can have so much power... And formerly one man used to produce hundreds of children. Wherefrom the potency comes? If a man is giving birth to hundreds of children, but still, he is the same man, wherefrom the potency comes? Why man? Even the fish, thousands of eggs they produce, and thousands of fishes are again produced. Wherefrom the potency comes?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the supreme controller.
Prabhupāda: Not supreme... He has got. From the supreme control..., yes, but directly we see that He has got so much potency. Everything is coming from Supreme; that's a fact. But you can see hundreds and thousands of children produced by one single living entity. The snakes, they produce hundreds and thousands of children at a time. Fortunately, they eat their own children. Otherwise, the whole world would have been full of snakes only.
Prabhupāda: Nonsense. So why there is now higher species? And the lower species also. As we see at the present moment, there is the most intellectual person and the most foolish ass also... So why do we see all the things simultaneously? Why ass is not abolished? What is their answer? So similarly, formerly also there was.
Karandhara: They say, "parallel evolution." They say in the process of evolution some are advancing and some are remaining stable.
Prabhupāda: So if that, even parallel, then there is Brahmā. He is most advanced. Why do you say there was no human being? There was. Therefore their theory, "In such and such era the human life began," that is wrong if they accept parallel. They are existing always. And as we see. Now as we see, the trees are there, birds are there, animals are there, human beings are there, God is there, demigod is there. Everything is there. Where is the question of evolution? Simply we have to enter. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Helped means you have helped to minimize their duration of life. Formerly man was living hundred years. Now they do not live more than sixty, seventy years. That you have helped certainly. What you have helped? A man is dying ordinarily, and you have created atomic energy. You can kill thousands of men. So you have helped only in dying. But you have not helped in living. That is not possible. Then what you have done? Some childish play? What you have done? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop disease, you cannot stop old age. So what you have done? Formerly people used to become old. Now also, they are becoming old. Formerly people used to die. They are dying now also. Formerly the people used to become diseased. They are becoming diseased. More diseased. More medicine. What you have helped? You have not helped anything in the improvement of the order of the world? What is that help?
Umāpati: The same scientists will point to India and say, "Look at all the dying and starving people over there."
Prabhupāda: No, no, why Indians? We are talking of the whole world. Why you take the example of the Indians? Indians may be backward. We are talking of you, so forward. What you have done? Indians may be backward. We are not talking of any particular nation or particular people. We are talking of general people, people in general.
Prabhupāda: He's working foolishly like animal. He does not know what is soul, what he is, nothing of the sort. He is working hard day and night and he is thinking, "I am becoming victorious." This is called māyā. What victory? Have you won victory over birth, death, the real problem? "No. We have won victory. We can now, without horse, we can go with a car." So what is that? With a horse or without horse, you cannot go anywhere else. You will be here within this world. That's all. Just like these rascals, now they have invented car. You know that? Formerly they were walking.
Karandhara: Yes. Now he is pulling car.
Prabhupāda: That's all. What is that? That within he's..., that golf area. (Apparently, a man is mowing grass on a machine in the background) That's all. (laughing) You know the cow? The cow is stuck up with a pole in India and long rope, and he's thinking, "I am free."
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: They have made a longer rope.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he is thinking, "I am so free." Is not? This rascaldom is going on.
Prabhupāda: That you can do. That is, I can do also. It is not very great credit. But if you know how it is formed, then counteract it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We know how it is formed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you know, then you discover, counteracting. Just like formerly, in the warfare the atomic brahmāstra was thrown. On the other side... brahmāstra means excessive heat. So they caused something, they transformed into water. Because after heat, there must be water. So where is that science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like milk. Milk looks white, but it is just water. They call it, it's a colloidal suspension of proteins, these caseins, in water. So similarly, this fog is just a colloidal suspension of water in the air.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you create some fire. It will be immediately driven away. Water can be driven away by fire. So you create. That you cannot. You just shot one bomb. There will be some heat, and all the mist will go away. Do it.
Prabhupāda: You cannot avoid it. So everyone is under the laws the nature. Let us decide on that. Now these laws of nature, these also controlled by somebody else. As we gave the example that every individual person within a state is controlled by the laws of government or laws of king. Now it is governed by democracy. Formerly it was under the king. So king is a person. He gives the law, and under that law all citizens are controlled. This is a fact. Therefore the laws of nature is controlled by somebody, controller, and we get this information from Vedic knowledge. And practically it is so, that just by the example, law must be given by somebody. Law is not blind, or something dropped from the sky. Law is law. It is made by somebody. That is law. It is working systematically. That is law. So when there is systematic law, there is systematic law-giver, controller, supervisor, superintendent. So we are not imagining, but we'll take it from authority, Vedic information, which is accepted by a great culture, great ācāryas, great teachers. Not that I am blindly accepting, but we are in the disciplic succession in the Vedic knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: So the coins were given out by the East India Company.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all the Britishers went there as East India Company to have trade connection.
Śyāmasundara: Disguise. So we should sell it for any price?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, people could purchase any amount of coins from the currency.
Śyāmasundara: From who?
Prabhupāda: From the currency, government currency.
Śyāmasundara: Government.
Prabhupāda: Any amount of coins. In our childhood... Why our childhood? Even when we were young men, the Indians, generally, they like Guinea gold, British Guinea, what is called, pound?
Śyāmasundara: One pound, one shilling.
Prabhupāda: So in India it was available, any amount. You pay price and take. And they would melt it and make ornament, that Guinea gold. There was no restriction. You can purchase any amount.
Pradyumna: "The seat should neither be too high nor too low."
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is there. "It should not be too high nor too low." Then?
Pradyumna: "And should be situated in a sacred place."
Prabhupāda: A sacred place. Just like formerly those who were practicing yoga, they were going to Gaṅgotri where the Ganges is coming down, in the Himalaya, in the Haridwar, in a secluded, sacred place. These are the condition, first condition. So where you are getting these conditions fulfilled? You cannot practice yoga in a hotel or in a club. That is not possible.
Student (2): How do you decide whether a place is sacred or not?
Prabhupāda: Sacred place, generally we take as a lonely place, solitary place. If it is not solitary, it is not sacred.
Prabhupāda: Then if there is question of "Why?" then you do not come to us. You can ask somebody else. Because Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the yogis, all the saintly persons, therefore... There is no question of "Why?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the decision of the Vedic literature. All the ācāryas. We have to follow, mahājano yena gataḥ, big personalities. Now in India, the big personalities in the modern age, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya, all of them accept kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Formerly, five thousand years ago, Vyāsadeva, before that, Nārada—everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is no question about Kṛṣṇa's being the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why? Why? Because these people accept, the śāstra says, the Vedas says, therefore He is the Supreme Personality.
Student (1): I don't follow at all...
Prabhupāda: Then you'll never be able to follow.
Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the month of May I was here. Again I have come in July. Formerly, from India to come to London, it was like a dream. And now it is daily affair. (laughs)
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: You get on the plane in the morning and go in the evening there. Simply you have to pay. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. So let us... So thank you very much for your...
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: It was very kind of you to come.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I'm sorry I couldn't see you next week which would have been more convenient to you, but unfortunately next week I was very much occupied, and I'm very grateful to you for coming this afternoon. It was kind of you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: His name was Gopāla Banh. Gopāla Banh ...And there was a king, Kṛṣṇacandra. So the kings would relax by joking words by the jokers. That was system formerly. So Gopāla Banh was constructing a house. So the king advised another friend that: "If you go to his new house and evacuate..." Because the house is not yet opened, not yet established, "Then I'll give you one thousand rupees." So this man said: "Yes, I'll go and do it." So he was, he came to Gopāla Banh's house and began to say: "Gopāla Banh! Oh! I am called by nature. Kindly show me where is your privy. I have to pass." So he could understand that: "Why this man has come here to evacuate?" So he: "Yes, yes. Come in, come in, come in." So he opened the new lavatory and brought a big stick. So he said: "Why you have brought the stick?" So he said: "Yes, you can pass, you can pass stool, but if you urine one drop, I'll kill you." So "How it is possible?" "If it is not possible, I cannot allow." So these, these foolish scientific men, "You can speak, but if you use microphone, then I'll kill you." Yes. The Gopāla Banh's policy. They would not say: "Not allow." But in a different way. (break) For political diplomacy. Not directly: "No." But creating such position, it is not.
Yogeśvara: She, she asks you for an explanation of an event that happened to her sister. Her sister died at the age of five and a half years. And just before her death she apparently was able to explain some of her past lifetimes to her mother, that she had formerly been a princess or of noble birth and that now she was being called. Is there some explanation for that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, she remembers of her last birth. That is quite possible. Because we are changing body. So one who can remember about his past life, they are called jāta-smaraṇa.
Yogeśvara: Jāta-smaraṇa?
Prabhupāda: One who can remember about his past life. (break) ...means forgetting everything of the past life. (break) ...times a person remembers.
Yogeśvara: She asks for a definition of the word "occult." What is something that is occult, something occult or mystic? What is it?
Prabhupāda: Mystic?
Yogeśvara: Mystic. What is mysticism?
Prabhupāda: I do not say anything on mysticism. Mystic, something. It is called rahasya.
Prabhupāda: This is the third time.
Professor: The third time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly I was going there... What is that place name?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Fontenay aux Rose.
Professor: Fontenay aux Rose. I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In a sewer. So I had got very poor idea of Paris.
Professor: Really? Why?
Prabhupāda: Because in the sewer, I could not see such nice things.
Professor: Here, it's a wonderful location.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Here it is wonderful. Now I can make an idea, what is Paris. Yes.
Professor: Surely.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.
narottama-dāsa koy, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy,
- tomā bine ke āche āmāra
Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's singing, hari hari bifale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord, I have simply wasted my time. Bifale, without any profit. Because I got this human form of life, but I missed the opportunity for worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā." And by doing this, I have taken poison knowingly." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Then golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana." This nāma-saṅkīrtana is not any material thing. It is the ecstatic love of Kṛṣṇa in the Goloka Vṛndāvana."
golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana,
- rati nā janmilo kene tāy
"But I have no attachment for this hari-kīrtana." Saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale: "My heart is always burning in material existence." Juḍāite nā koinu upāy: "But I did not make any means by which I can get out of it." Brajendra-nandana jei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "Formerly the same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who was, who appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has again appeared as the son of Śacīdevī." And balarāma hoilo nitāi: "And Balarāma has appeared as Nityānanda Prabhu." So their business is: dīna-hīna jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, all sorts of sinful men, and materially suffering men, all of them have been delivered by these two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, by preaching the saṅkīrtana movement. Tāra śākṣī jagāi mādhāi: "They have delivered all kinds of sinful men. The evidence is Jagāi and Mādhāi." Hā hā prabhu nanda-suta, vṛṣabhānu-sutā-juta: "My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja, you are now standing with Rādhārāṇī, the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu. So it is my appeal." Koruṇā karoho ei-bāro: "Kindly be kind upon me." Narottama-dāsa koy: "Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, 'Don't kick me out. I have no other shelter. Please take me.'
Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant.
Prabhupāda: Parsee. I see. Parsees are Gujarati also.
Lady: We speak Gujarati and Parsee.
Prabhupāda: Formerly the Parsees were prominent community in Bombay. They are big businessmen, important men.
Banker: Mr. Tata...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tata, Sarpiosa Mehta. (?) Now from the Parsee community no such big men are coming. What you think? Last big man was Nariman. You do not know? Nariman. He was of our age. I saw him. That Nariman Point. He was a political leader. Come on. So Nariman was a Parsee. I know that.
Lady: I know name like that, but...
Prabhupāda: He was Subhash Bose's contemporary. Yes. Of the same party. (pause) How is your son?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is very well.
Prabhupāda: And father?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is okay too.
Prabhupāda: Father, son, he's middle.
Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.
Guest (1): The population has increased so much.
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not the question, population. Population was... Formerly one man used to beget one hundred children. From Mahābhārata we understand that Dhṛtarāṣṭra, his name is mentioned because he was king. That means at that time people were able to beget one hundred children. And who is begetting one hundred children now? One, two, three, four, that's all. How the population can be increased now? It is all bogus propaganda.
Guest (1): What do you think is the solution of these difficulties?
Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That's alright, but you cannot eat (indistinct).
Lady Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: You can produce bolt and nut but you cannot eat. So this is going on. Formerly everyone was in village. Everyone was interested to produce food. Everyone had got land. Even the brāhmaṇas they were not working. The śūdras would work and they produce half and half. Government would tax only 25%.
Guest: Hm.
Prabhupāda: That would cover everything—shelters, income tax, this tax, that tax, also. And if you not produced anything there was no tax. This was the system, everyone was happy. Here one side there is no production, there is scarcity. Another side government taxes 89, 95%.
Yaśomatīnandana: Well I realized afterwards that I was lower than a śūdra, because actually it was my duty and I rejected it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why we are accepting in Europe and America all them brāhmaṇa? They are not born in brāhmaṇa family. But why we are giving them sacred thread? Only for quality and work. That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī, they are rejected from brāhmaṇa family because they're servants of Nawab Hussain Shah and they adopted Muslim way of life. Their name was also changed-Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika, this Mallika (laughs), Sākara Mallika. But although they're born in brāhmaṇa family, but they're rejected from the brāhmaṇa family because they accepted service. Formerly the brāhmaṇas were so strict. Brāhmaṇa cannot accept any service. Then he becomes śūdra. To accept service is the business of the śūdra. And it is warned in the śāstra. If a brāhmaṇa becomes economically poor, he may act as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, not as a śūdra. Then it will be quite degradation. So now this, what is this brāhmaṇa, he's in service?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think he's a physicist now. I think he came here about one year before I came here.
Prabhupāda: So if he's in service, then he's śūdra.
Prajāpati: We should not think that this is our own strength.
Prabhupāda: No. We have to work by the strength of Kṛṣṇa. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He'll give, supply the strength. Or, in other words, you have already got the strength. You have to revive it. That's all. Actually, that is the position. As spiritual spark, we have got immense strength. But we are now identifying with this body. (break) ...hill. It was formerly very high. Now why it has gone down? This hill?
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, rocks.
Prabhupāda: Rocks, yes.
Karandhara: Because the ocean's moved up. It's just that the tides are way in.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The waves are bigger.
Prabhupāda: But...,
Karandhara: They used to be able... There used to be a big pipe you could see, but now it's all covered under the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Yes but daily we see it is covered. Why? That means?
Śrutakīrti: The tides go in and out.
Prajāpati: The phases of the moon, Śrīla Prabhupāda, affect the tides.
Prabhupāda: That I know. Or due to this moon, yes. Now it will go down. After this full moon. Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will select Kṛṣṇa conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys. They cancelled the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us. That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Prabhupāda: Then... (Hindi) The votes given by some...
Dr. Patel: Ignorant people.
Prabhupāda: ...ignorant people. What is the value?
Dr. Patel: You see, if you go in the assembly...
Prabhupāda: Formerly a king was elected by great sages, saintly persons, brāhmaṇas. King was elected. And as soon as he deviated from the śāstric principles, he was kicked out.
Dr. Patel: That is right. But we don't want to follow that (indistinct) rāma-rājya.
Prabhupāda: Then suffer! Then suffer! If your patient does not follow your instruction, he must suffer.
Dr. Patel: He will die.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of minority. Support the right person. Kṛṣṇa supported Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira in place of Duryodhana. So formerly it was monarchy. That is perfect politics. This democracy is useless. It has proved. One man, the king, he should be properly educated how to rule, what is the aim of ruling, how the people will be, I mean to say, culturally elevated, what is that culture. (break) There was a consulting board of learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons. They would advise the monarch how to rule.
Jayapatākā: This is... This is the land here.
Prabhupāda: This is the land?
Jayapatākā: Yeah, we're walking over it. We're going through... (break)
Śyāmasundara: Elizabeth, in England, she's got a..., what she calls a "think-tank" or a board of advisors who meet and advise her on different policies.
Prabhupāda: Privy council.
Prabhupāda: That, as it is suitable. It is not that because the kṣatriyas were killing by bows and arrows formerly, you have to continue that. That is another foolishness. If you have got... If you can kill easily by guns, take that gun. Just like formerly, parivrāja, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on the street. There was no aeroplane or... Or he did not use it. Does it mean that I shall have to follow that? I must take the jet engine. If it is available. If somebody criticizes, "Oh, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on leg and you are travelling in the jet plane?" Shall I have to take that ideal? These are rascaldom. When you have to work, you have to work with the greatest facility. That's all. Now I have got the facility of the talking in microphone, and... So why should I not take it? It will be recorded. It will be heard by so many others. I am speaking to four, five men. It can be heard by a big crowd of four hundred men.
Yaśomatīnandana: Hyderabad is easier because the people are very much in favor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Vṛndāvana they gave it very late. After one year. Vṛndāvana. Because the government doesn't want further development of Vṛndāvana. They are neglecting the city in such a way that no gentleman will go there. The old city... Formerly, it was planned that "So many pilgrims come here. It should be nicely developed." But now they have given up. They have purposefully kept so nasty. You have seen the city?
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: So nasty that nobody will go there.
Guest: But should we now take the help from the political parties such as Shiv Sena?
Prabhupāda: That is very good.
Prabhupāda: That's right. (break) ...coming from the back side. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes white also. Asan Balarāma (?)
Dr. Patel: No, He is white in Kṛta-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Śveta, śveta... Śuklas te tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. Gargamuni, when he was deliberating on the horoscope of Kṛṣṇa, he said that "This child formerly had three other colors." Śuklas te tathā rakta. Śuklaḥ pītas tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇa. Śukla means white.
Dr. Patel: He was white in Kṛta-yuga, in Tretā, He was...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And then he was yellow in Dvāpara. And because now He's born in Kali-yuga, He's dark.
Guest (1): Not Kali-yuga. Dvāpara-yuga. Dvāpara-yuga.
Dr. Patel: Dvāpara and Kali-yuga sandhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that means Kṛṣṇa had all the colors. Śuklo raktas tathā pītaḥ.
Girirāja: (reads synonyms Bg. 11.6 up to:) "adṛṣṭa—that you have not heard or seen;"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even which Arjuna did not hear before, that was also shown. What was heard by him formerly, that was also shown and unheard of, unseen, that was also.
Girirāja: (reads rest of synonyms) "Translation: O best of the Bhāratas, see here the different manifestations of Ādityas, Rudras and all the demigods. Behold the many things which no one has ever seen or heard before."
Dr. Patel:
- ihaikasthaṁ jagat kṛtsnaṁ
- paśyādya sa-carācaram
- mama dehe guḍākeṣa
- yac cānyad draṣṭum icchasi
- (BG 11.7)
Prabhupāda: So this is, this is... You can... Mama deha. So the so-called incarnations of God, they should show in their body all these things. They must be accepted by the śāstra that he is avatāra. Otherwise, why so cheap avatāra, we shall accept?
Girirāja: (reads synonyms)
Prabhupāda: (interrupting) Altogether.
Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do, I cannot, I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet. With so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings. But it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swab. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant. So gradually he is given service. "First of all this, first of all that, then..." Again and again, again, again. The same example can be given, that the husband and wife. Formerly, when I was married, my wife was eleven years old. So (laughing) an eleven years old girl and I was at the same time twenty-one, twenty-two.
Prabhupāda: Well, suitable cannot be. There is no suitable.
Indian man: Difficult to find.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, as the girl is grown up, any boy.
Indian man: We used to marry at the age of ten, eleven. That is... Those days have been forty years back.
Prabhupāda: I was also married. My wife was eleven years old.
Indian man: My wife was eleven when she was married. I was only sixteen when I was married. Only a difference of four or five years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And before that, I heard my father-in-law, he was eleven years old, and my mother-in-law was seven years old. My eldest sister was born at nine years old. And I was born after her marriage.
Indian man: Those old days are finished.
Prabhupāda: All right, thank you. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all. Because I did not earn this money, I have printed. I am prepared to twenty rupees. So he says, "Why shall I pay ten rupees? I must wait for the customer, for twenty rupees, and hoard it." Even there is sufficient stock, he will not sell. Therefore the other man, who is honest, he is suffering. This is going on. So to stop this inflation, the government must stop this paper currency. Then the inflation... There will be no more inflation. But that they will not do. They want to cheat people. "In God I trust. Take this paper and you be satisfied that you have got thousand dollars." That's all. This cheating is going on. Why should you pay me paper? Give me real dollar, in gold. That they have none. They haven't got. That's all. They will employ laborers and cheat them by paying these papers, and this rascal will think that "I am getting more money." That's all. Since this world has taken this paper currency, the situation has degraded. Formerly there was barter exchange. That was very good thing. Still in Indian villages, the remote villages, there is barter. Yes. He has produced some grains, paddy. He will bring to the storekeeper. And the storekeeper will take, "For so much oil, you have to give me so much paddy." So he will weigh and keep it and give him oil. So he will arrange to sell the paddy. But for the villagers, he brings the paddy and he takes. They require little salt, little oil, some spices. That's all. Otherwise they have got their own thing. They have got dahl, their rice, wheat, everything. They have produced. In this way, still there are, Indian villages. There is no question of scarcity.
Dhanañjaya: But they are saying they used all the wood for paper, so there's no more wood.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paper you can make from grass, from cotton. So many other fibers. You don't require wood. You grow grass, sufficient quantity, and you make paper. Why should you publish so many rubbish literatures? Just like you were telling. The Times of India, the newspaper. (Sound of cars) This is the difficulty, walking on street. Therefore I wanted to go to the park. This is disturbance. So paper, if we don't produce unnecessary paper, there is no scarcity. From grass. You produce grass, huge quantity of grass, you will get paper. Cotton also. First-class paper. In India also, the rejected paper. From rejected paper you can get another paper also. But they throw it away in your country. Collect this rejected paper and again put it into paper. And why should you publish all rubbish literature? Simply publish Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. What is the use of this newspaper, nonsense newspaper, huge, huge quantity? So everything will be nice provided you become ideal. Live in community. Produce your own food. Even you can produce your own paper. You don't require printing of so many books. If there is one book, others can imitate, or copy. There is no need of printing. Formerly they used to do that. Here is the...
Prabhupāda: If there is no opposite elements, there is no need of weapons. If I am not your enemy, there is no fear. We are preaching this philosophy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become jubilant." So where is your enemy? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then where is your enemy? Formerly, a man might have become enemy of another man. But this demonic civilization has created nation to nation, country to country, community to community, all enemies. And on account of this communistic enemy, so many innocent people are killed. I have seen in Calcutta during the partition days. So many innocent Hindus and Muslims were killed. Any (indistinct), very quickly this Communistic feeling is aroused, and they fight, like cats and dogs. "Oh, here is another dog! Here is another dog, coming from another neighborhood." So this is demonic civilization. If you want to go to some country, you have to take visa, permission, this, that, so many. Why? Vedic civilization is "You come to my country. Welcome. You are my guest." Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam: "Even one is enemy, when he comes to my house, he is my honorable guest." And here, they are so much afraid that you keep dogs. The dog is kept here.
Prabhupāda: Big castle. And at a time they left. In the Roman, the... Formerly, the Romans, they also came. They also constructed big, big buildings. Now they are rotting, and another generation, they also are creating the same thing. But exactly like the children, after playing, they are going. Nobody knows where they have gone. Similarly, these rascals, they are coming. They have got the human intelligence. Simply spoiling that intelligence in amassing the external resources of material nature, and they leave the platform, and again go away and take the birth of some other form of life. Everything forgotten just like dream. This is going on. They cannot understand it has no value.
Prabhupāda: First of all, the thing is that our principle is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are sinful rogues, to kill them. Now, we have to judge whether the fascist, he is sinful or the person attacking the fascist, he is sinful. If both of them are of the same category, then where to use violence or to use nonviolence? Now... Formerly, there was fight between nation to nation and now, we have seen in Italy—I was in Rome—now they are fighting amongst themselves.
Prof. Regamay: Awfully.
Prabhupāda: Amongst themselves. Now they will fight in the family. So people are becoming so degraded. They require all to be killed.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The fascist and the non-fascist and this and everyone... And that is being prepared, the atomic bomb. You see? They will be all killed, nature's way. You see? They have become so sinful. I am speaking this freely because you are a gentleman, but the civilization, modern civilization, everyone is addicted to intoxication, everyone is flesh-eating, everyone is illicit sex, everyone is addicted to gambling. So where is pure person? They require all to be killed, fascist and non-fascist. Because according to Bhagavad..., paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). All these people, under different names.
Prabhupāda: We have started a gurukula in Dallas. Small children are being trained up. Just like formerly there was brahmacārī āśrama. (aside:) Those ladies, they have come? No? If there are any inquiries. (break) ...record?
Devotee: Which record?
Bhagavān: From this afternoon, the recording.
Devotee: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee: It's upstairs, or it's right out here.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You have got?
Devotee: I think so.
Man: (French)
Jyotirmayī: He would like to know if to instruct young Christians to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa will be helping them attain the highest perfection or if it is changing their religion.
Prabhupāda: No. We are recommending "Chant the holy name of God." So if you have got the holy name of God, you can chant that.
Prabhupāda: This time, yes, just to see my centers. I have got many...
Professor La Combe: This is your Paris establishment?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Paris establishment, yes.
Professor La Combe: Formerly you were in the south of..., in the banlieu (suburbs).
Jyotirmayī: Yes, before.
French Devotee: At Fontenay-aux-Rose.
Jyotirmayī: One year ago we came here in Paris.
Professor La Combe: It's more noisy and..., but its more easy and more convenient. When was this Paris center started?
Jyotirmayī: It started four years ago.
Professor La Combe: And this is your first visit to this center?
Prabhupāda: No, this is the fourth visit.
Prabhupāda: After Mathurā. It is Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana. There is a shortcut. Formerly... The road is very old road, from Delhi to Vṛndāvana, taking a turn at the place known as Chattikara. So on that road we are constructing our temple.
Professor La Combe: Constructing now?
Prabhupāda: No, it is finished.
Professor La Combe: It is ancient? But you are...
Bhagavān: Do you have the photographs?
Yogeśvara: Some slides somewhere.
Professor La Combe: But that is an old shrine. It is not a new establishment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, formerly I was staying. I have got my place there also, one of the oldest temples, Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. Rādhā-Dāmodara. This temple was established by Jīva Gosvāmī. There are seven important temples: Govindajī's temple, Madana-Mohana, Rādhā-Dāmodara, Rādhā-Ramaṇa, and Rādhā-Śyāmasundara.
Prabhupāda: Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja gave Kali four places. He could not find out. First of all he gave him four places, that "These four places you can go." But he could not find out such place. So he was embarrassed. So now there is no question of finding out. Everywhere you go, the same four principles. Formerly, it was very difficult to find out a place where these things are going on. Now everywhere you go, these four things are main principles of life. So therefore they cannot very much appreciate these prohibitory principles, that "What is wrong there?"
Devotee: It is just the opposite now. Now there is no place where Mahārāja Parīkṣit can go to find out a spiritual atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of our men, at least one, left our association. He thought that "This is denying the primary necessities of life." Rāyarāma, Rāyarāma. He left for this reason, that we do not allow the bare necessities of life. Illicit sex, intoxication... He was first-class criminal on this account, but he could not give it up. Therefore he left.
Prabhupāda: Eternally hellish life.
Pṛthu: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So then why she says that everyone will go, peace? (German) (break)
Pṛthu: She makes no... She said that if she could listen to Jesus, what he said, formerly, then she would know, but she says actually one cannot believe it so much because can anyone believe that he has made the dead Lazarus... This was a person who already died, and Jesus came and gave him life back. So she says nobody can believe that, that Jesus has made this dead Lazarus...
Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?
Satsvarūpa: She, from what he says, she does not actually believe in Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Satsvarūpa: This lady. She says that who can be sure of what Jesus actually did because he was...
Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)
Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...
Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned." (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not. (Sanskrit) That is the test that as soon as you are advanced in spiritual life, all these materialistic habits will be rejected automatically. This is the test. Four things are material demands-eating, satisfaction of the tongue or belly and satisfaction of the genital, āhāra, and sleeping and to become a good defender, defense measure. These are material necessity. And the one who is spiritually advanced, these things will be reduced, almost nil. What Christ says, Jesus Christ about sex life? What does he say?
Devotee: Only in the married life.
Prabhupāda: About?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. India, formerly your country was part of India and you belonged to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Aryan? So Aryan culture was practically all over the world. Aryan culture.
Guest: Krs then as attractiveness and as cultivator. In Greek my name is also cultivator.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: In Greek, the origin of my name is cultivator. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And there is a Greek word for Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is a word in Greek. He is called Kristo. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Kristo and that Kristo word means love. That is the other Greek word and from that Kristo, the word Christ has come.
Professor Durckheim: Yes, the theology is very much a collection of hardened, petrified interpretation of original experiences. And just because they are petrified very often, today theology has nothing to say to our generation.
Prabhupāda: No. I have got many disciples. They were formerly theologicians. What is the name, that boy in America?
Satsvarūpa: In Arabia?
Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.
Prabhupāda: Formerly we were paying two rupees. Two rupees, and if it is this name, at most, three rupees. Now the things have increased twice. Forty years ago that black Bhāgavata was bound only for two rupees. This is very nice one. In the U.S.A the binding cost is very, very... Just like Macmillan Company. Bhagavad-gītā, hardbound, they charge ten dollars, ninety-five. And softbound, softbound, they charge four dollars. Six dollar difference on account of binding. So they have charged one dollar, seventy-five cents, and in America they charge six dollars. So all the fathers clapped for long.
Prabhupāda: Duty has to be done despite all inconveniences. That is very important thing. The example is given that one has to take bathing early in the morning, but because it is cold, one cannot avoid it. He must bathe. This morning we had some meeting... (break) ...a little boy, but he was a great devotee, and father was a great atheist. So he was surprised that his son became so great devotee. After all, as a father he asked him, "My dear boy, what nice thing you have learned by your education?" He said, "My dear father, the best thing I have learned, that people are always full of anxiety on account of accepting material..." (break) ...exactly the same thing as you were... So one thing is that formerly it was the practice to go to the forest, go to the Himalaya, but in this age this is not possible. Therefore we have to take shelter of the Lord wherever we are, and that is Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting.
Dr. Harrap: Well, you should... The advice is that you keep your general level of fats down, but of the fats that you take, you should increase the ratio between polyunsaturated and saturated. But there is quite a development of milk industry in parts of India. The complex near Annakadana(?), I think, is a very good example of this, isn't it, of the, I believe, the cooperative dairy complex.
Prabhupāda: No, practically also we see. Formerly big, big saintly person they used to live in the forest, and their livelihood was fruits and milk. They used to keep cows and draw milk from them, and whatever fruits are available in the forest, and they have given us these literatures, Vyāsadeva. So the... He has written Mahābhārata, one hundred thousand verses and similarly, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has given us eighteen thousand verses. And each verse is full of so grave meaning that if you study, it will take months and months together. So they developed such nice brain simply by drinking milk and fruits. Yes.
Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?
Guests: Yes, yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.
Madhudviṣa: So what enables a person to do that?
Prabhupāda: No... But principle is that you try to understand that you are not this body. That is applicable in all time, all circumstances, all, for everyone. It is not that formerly one had to learn that he's not this body, and now that is not required. The same problem is there still. Arjuna, five thousand years ago he was given lesson about this, that "You are not this body; you are soul." The same problem is now also for the foolish person because the foolish person will always remain in the world, and the intelligent man is to teach him. This is fact always, without any consideration of time, space, and circumstance. There will be certain class of men, foolish, and there will be certain class of men who are intelligent. So the foolish man has to take intelligence from the intelligent man. This is perpetually truth in this material world. It is not, time and circumstances changes this principle. There will be foolish men. Just like now we read, "Two classes of men are there always, the demons and the demigods." So at the present moment more demons. Two classes of men are there always, but at the present moment the demons, number of demons, are more and number of demigods are less because it is Kali-yuga.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) He doesn't want to become a cheater.
Jayatīrtha: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That's all. Formerly...
Jayatīrtha: Just like that Sudāmā and Subala...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not like that.
Jayatīrtha: They came for instruction, but then, when you gave them instruction, they said, "No." So what was the use of their coming? That's his feeling.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in that way he's very sincere, I know. So what is there? I love him. Let him come. After all, he is my son. There is no harm. Let him come. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: Right here. See on the left there?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm, don't come near. What is that?
Hṛdayānanda: He wanted to know what is the relation between the Vedic culture of India and the cultures that originally were in Latin America. There seemed to be some similarity, cultures such as the different Indian cultures.
Prabhupāda: Formerly the whole world was Vedic culture. They have deteriorated, and India a simply glimpse is maintained still. And everywhere it is lost. (loud screeching noise of birds) Why they are angry?
Śrutakīrti: They're in a cage.
Paramahaṁsa: They're in, and we are out.
Prabhupāda: Only birds?
Śrutakīrti: Do they have any other animals here, prabhu? Yeah? There are others.
Prabhupāda: Animals? No.
Śrutakīrti: Bobcat or something? Mountain lion?
Hṛdayānanda: He asked a question about... In Latin America there's much belief or superstition in this so-called lost city of Atlantis. It's very famous all around the western world that there was a lost civilization called Atlantis. It fell down into the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Maybe.
Prabhupāda: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. (break) In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation. (laughter) (break)
- aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ
- sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam
- devareṇa sutotpattiṁ
- kalau pañca vivarjayet
- (CC Adi 17.164)
In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.
Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya.
Devotee (1): Were all the races originated in India?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (1): The races were originated in India, all the races, the different races that there are now?
Prabhupāda: India what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.
Prabhupāda: They were not properly doing their duties. So Paraśurāma said, "I will kill all of them." Formerly kṣatriyas were guided by the brāhmaṇas, even Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all the rules and regulations. But the brāhmaṇas were the legislative assembly. And kṣatriyas were the executive, and the vaiśyas, productive, and śūdras worker. At the present moment there is no director, neither executive. Some of them are only productive, and some of them are worker, most of them. Therefore it is said, kalau śūdraḥ-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, mostly all the people are śūdras. Because they are workers. (break) Everyone can be purified, even the caṇḍālas. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). Yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. Yavanas means these European groups, and khasādayaḥ, Mongolian group: China, Japan. So Japanese were there in Vedic age also. Kālayavana. Kālayavana fought with Kṛṣṇa.
Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned soul. They are struggling for existence. Existence means finding out how to come to the original consciousness, and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means "love," so everyone is struggling hard how to be in the platform of love. So many institution-philanthropy, international and the United Nation—the only attempt: how to love each other. But they are struggling. They have not attained the platform, simply struggling. There have been so many attempts to unite. The vivid example is the United Nation. Formerly that was League of Nation. And people are manufacturing ideas, philanthropism and altruism, Communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is, they are trying to come to the platform of love. But they are manufacturing their own way. The Kṛṣṇa solves, that "Not in this way. Simply make Me center, and the whole thing will be done." But that they will not do. They will do in their own way, concocting some idea. And your idea will clash with me; my idea will clash with you. So same struggle continues, that's all. The Communist will not agree with the others, or capitalists, and capitalists will not agree with the Communists. But they are struggling to come to that point, the platform of love.
Prabhupāda: Nice. Where is Atreya?
Devotee: He's coming.
Prabhupāda: Yes. India... Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy. So as in the material calculation, the heat and light is the cause of all creation. Just like at the present moment there is not sufficient heat; therefore the trees have no leaves. And as soon as there will be little more heat they will be all green. So you can take it that the creation of the foliage is due to the heat. Similarly light. So heat and light is the cause of all this material creation. And heat and light is coming from the sunshine, er, sun. Therefore heat becomes the origin of creation even in this material world.
Bhagavān: Minimum? Minimum salary?
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: That eight hundred, two hundred goes for taxes...
Prabhupāda: No our, our... That was the... Formerly, who was managing?
Jayatīrtha: Formerly, I was managing.
Prabhupāda: So you were also taking one thousand?
Jayatīrtha: I was... But that was... But I was... I wasn't taking anything. But that was...
Prabhupāda: Then? How...? Why he is taking?
Jayatīrtha: Because we were working illegally.
Haṁsadūta: The thing is the whole situation has deteriorated into a karmī business, and no one's making any profit on it.
Jayatīrtha: Well, now, let's...
Haṁsadūta: It's just a headache.
Jayatīrtha: That is a... That is an unschooled statement, an uneducated statement. It's not a...
Haṁsadūta: No, that's not a fact. Where is the advantage?
Jayatīrtha: Anyway, let me finish... That's why I don't want to discuss this in front of Prabhupāda, because of argument. Anyway, the next point is that, as far as Karandhara's salary is concerned...
Prabhupāda: No, the Spiritual Sky was contemplated that our gṛhastha bhaktas may be employed...
Prabhupāda: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pañcadraviḍa: Cuts trees?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudviṣa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupāda: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Pañcadraviḍa: Carpenter.
Prabhupāda: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Join.
Prabhupāda: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Prabhupāda: Naturally. They are in greater number.
Rāmeṣvara: But these modern wars are fought with missiles and bombs more than armies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, also, there were brahmāstra, fire, firearms, brahmāstra. (break) ...problems that we are facing, they were also in the past under different name, different form.
Nalinī-kānta: (break) ...Communists win, that will not stop our preaching?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Nalinī-kānta: They do not like to hear of God.
Rāmeṣvara: You wrote that if the Communists are victorious they would destroy whatever is left of the culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Victory for the Communists means the whole human culture is lost.
Ajāta-śatru: Does it mean that they will also attack the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have already begun. They are not passing our temple in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: You have seen that Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, Kṛṣṇa footprint.
Devotee: That means Kṛṣṇa must have been fifteen or twenty feet tall?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) But it is a fact formerly people were taller. We have seen. In our childhood we have seen, when European, they were very tall.
Devotee: They were taller and they lived longer.
Devotee (2): That story about King Mucukunda when he was sleeping in the cave and he came out of the cave and looked outside and he said, "Oh, it must be Kali-yuga." because the trees were smaller and...
Prabhupāda: Do you (indistinct) ...the mango trees now? Some of the trees (indistinct), the lemon tree, stunted. In Japan they grow many trees.
Devotee: In Japan they cultivate trees to be like that, very small. They have little orange trees. Orange trees are this big, orange trees.
Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.
Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.
Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...
Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ. So if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa he must be brāhmaṇa. That is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a śūdra, and somebody is claiming, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the brāhmaṇas (were) strictly following. They would not accept... In the śāstras it is said that the brāhmaṇa in bad time may become a kṣatriya. Just like Dronācārya. He was brāhmaṇa, but he became a kṣatriya for certain reason, and acting like kṣatriya, although he was respected as brāhmaṇa, but he was acting as a kṣatriya. So it is advised that brāhmaṇa may take the profession of a kṣatriya and up to the vaiśya. But if he takes the profession of a śūdra, then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, samsriti?
Brahmānanda: Bhāratīya samskriti.
Prabhupāda: So why it is falldown? Kṛṣṇa, He kissed so many gopīs. He can defend like that.
Śrutakīrti: He may do that.
Prabhupāda: Do that. He is the same Kṛṣṇa. Now, formerly Kṛṣṇa used to kiss cowherd girls. And He is kissing American girls. Where is the wrong?
Śrutakīrti: But this was in public.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa also do in public.
Paramahaṁsa: But he cannot do anything like lift Goverdhana Hill or have sixteen thousand wives.
Prabhupāda: That is both for them. Let them lift only one mound weight. Then they will come. But they cannot do, neither of them. That is impossible. They have not killed any demons. They are taking advantage of the foolishness of some people. That's all.
Prabhupāda: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Sataṁ prasaṅgāt. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees. Then he's a...
Indian boy: Is it possible that I live on my own and still be a devotee?
Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?
Indian boy: Yes, there is...
Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Prabhupāda: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? (break) ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.
Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.
Dr. Copeland: What's going to happen to you in the next life?
Prabhupāda: My life? According to śāstra, if we have actually developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are going to Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Copeland: And you are...
Prabhupāda: I may not, but they will go. (laughter) And even it is a failure, then the next life he is guaranteed human life and very nice life. You find out this verse, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate.
Prabhupāda: More demons. Because with the progress of so-called civilization, people are becoming more and more demons, so they cannot understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti. Mūḍhā, he cannot understand. That is the difficulty. More dull-headed, less intelligent persons are coming. Just see. Formerly there was no skyscraper building. Now they are thinking "So long this body is there, let us enjoy." And the..., in the body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). But the soul is within the body—there is no care. And that he is going to become a dog next life, but he is satisfied that "This life I have got this skyscraper building." That's all.
Bali-mardana: Previously the only big building was the church.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big church or king's royal palace, like that. Ordinary men, they used to live in cottage. That is especially in India. They did not... What is the use? If you are not going to live there... It is a common sense. But they have no idea. They are thinking, "We shall live forever in this house." And Kṛṣṇa says that "I will come as death and take away all your possession." That they cannot understand. They will think that "No, my possession is all. I will die. I will go to hell. Still, it is my possession." This is. He will go to hell; still, his possession. (laughs) This is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Power. He must have power, influence. Why he should beg vote, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote," begging? Where is power? If he is begging vote, where is power? Formerly the kings... Just like they used to take sword. "If you don't accept me, then I shall kill you." This is power. Śauryaṁ tejam...
Devotee: Dhṛtir, determination.
Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required. Then hand. Whenever there is some attack, consciously, unconsciously, I forward my hand. So the division is already there. If you come to attack me with a knife, I don't push my head. I push my hand. So when there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training. Everything is perfectly there. People are not accepting. You don't require conference. You simply accept the standard knowledge. Then everything is there. I am speaking to you because you are leader of the society. So if we take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and train people from all over the world —not that Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindu or for the Indians—for everyone, then there will be all right.
Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.
Prabhupāda: Now they have been trained up. What can be done? Woman is not trained up now to become a chaste wife. That is the defect of the civilization. Formerly, woman was trained up only to become, remain faithful to his husband, that's all. Nari-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ: "Woman's beauty is how she is faithful to her husband." That's all. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam: "A black man or ugly man, if he is educated, that is his beauty." Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ. Kokila, the cuckoo is just like a crow, but everyone likes because his voice is so sweet. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam nari-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. Like that, he has given a list. These are the beauty. If a woman is trained up not to talk with any other man except her husband, that is her beauty. That enhances the beauty and prestige. This is Vedic knowledge.
Rādhā-vallabha: The same scientist—his name was Lamarck—he said that the giraffes have long necks because after many, many years of trying to eat leaves from trees their necks got longer.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Brahmānanda: He says the giraffes with the long necks in Africa their necks... Formerly their necks were very short, but they were always trying to eat the leaves on the top of the tree, so by doing this for many, many years their necks became longer, longer, longer.
Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's theory.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (break) Gradually, they'll become pigeons. Because they want sex life so much, so more and more they'll develop the bodies of pigeons.
Prabhupāda: Now the thing is who are they? That they do not know. They say "They are," but who are "they?" That they do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in India up country. Up country, in northern India. It is very good health, Punjab, because up country. (break) ...place Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says,
- māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
- bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
- aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
- yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham
A man who hasn't affectionate mother at home, neither very good wife, so he should immediately give up that home and go to the forest because for him it is as good, either you remain in forest or in home." (chuckles) How intelligent.
- māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
- bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
- aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
- yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham
(break) ...formerly at least one expected love from mother. That is also being finished. This is the advancement of civilization. Even mother is also not reliable, what to speak of others. A small child sleeps very sound on the lap of the mother because it thinks, "Now I am safe." And the mother is killing child. This is the advancement of civilization. (break) ...has been many cases, a polluted woman has killed his child on account of paramour. In India there have been many cases, killed a grown up child. In recently one of our Godbrother's wife.
Prabhupāda: That is aristocracy. (break) ...cannon, there was fight? Or this man is very famous hero? There was statue of Napoleon also in Paris. And they identify Napoleon and France, the same. But France is there; there is no Napoleon. (laughter) Napoleon finished, Hitler finished, Gandhi finished. (break)
Brahmānanda: That statue where Napoleon is, formerly there was another statue there of Louis XIV. So Napoleon, he pulled down that other statue and put his statue there.
Prabhupāda: And somebody will come... Just like in Karachi they have pulled down Gandhi's statue, and I do not know what statue they placed. (break)
Kuruśreṣṭha: ...worship these statues by the stool of crows. They worship these statues by the stool of crows.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. No, if you want to worship, then worship as we do. We have Kṛṣṇa's Deity worshiping. But what is this, keep a statue on open place and the crows pass stool on the head? (laughter) What is this respectful? In the Vedic civilization does not required. They worship deity but not like that, exposed to the crows for passing stool. That is idolism, and this is good.
Brahmānanda: And then it toppled over.
Prabhupāda: No, in bad weather, towers, but simply by touching, such a big machine became in fire. (laughs) Unsafe everywhere. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). Every step, there is danger.
Brahmānanda: One of our devotees... I was speaking to him. He was formerly in the air force, an electrician. And he was saying how there are so many wires in an airplane, and actually, when he was electrician, they would put the wires together very hastily in order to get the job done. And he said one of those wires could go wrong and then...
Prabhupāda: Finish everything.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Brahmānanda: He said the tendency is when you have a job is that you try to find some shortcut.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment—again coming back. (break) Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things. Please excuse me." Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jane nadite cubaya. (break) ...unless one remembers this, that "To be in the material world, how suffocating it is," he will not fit for going to back to Godhead. He must be completely detestful. If he keeps little attachment, "No, it is very good sometimes," then you have to remain here. (break) "This is not permanent. I shall be put next moment in the bad condition." That he must know. That is knowledge. And if he makes compromise, then he has to be again... (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.
Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.
Prabhupāda: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.
Brahmānanda: Oh, he was a rich Indian.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: How he could get such a...
Prabhupāda: He was a medical man. Yes, rich, rich. (break) ...they have arranged to have the meeting with this Professor Dimmock?
Brahmānanda: I didn't ask. They were supposed to do it. (end)
Prabhupāda: And to serve under somebody, that is śūdra. So at the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody. Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say, computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also. If you simply remain in the fourth grade, technology... Technology means he has to serve under somebody. This industry, that is also the same thing. Hundreds and thousands of men are working. They are fourth-class men. And śūdra. Just like formerly in Indian village... Still there are. They are self-supported.
Prabhupāda: No, social reform will automatically come. The first-class reform, the brāhmaṇas, if their advice is taken, then the other classes the kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdras, they become automatically.
Mayor: We're aware that a religious approach is more successful and our mental health society here is funding the Reverend Perry who is a black ordained, I think, a Baptist protestant minister, formerly a drug addict. And he's been working out with, especially with the blacks who have drug addiction and he achieves much more success than other agencies.
Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?
Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: He gives the example of one religious organization.
Prabhupāda: This is everything. Religious, social, political, philanthropical, science, everything included. We can give advice for solving any problem. That we have got all these books, practical. And in India there is political problem. Everywhere it is going on. They do not follow the standard way. Who will be the politicians? Here is the..., described. What are the politicians? Second-class, they are taken second-class. What is that? Śaurya tejaḥ?
Prabhupāda: Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. A kṣatriya should be so trained up, when there is fight, he must come out, forward. Not that he will sit down in his secluded place and poor man will fight. No. He should come forward as leader, "Come on." That is kṣatriya quality, yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Formerly there was fight, but the leaders, they would come face to face first of all. And if the leader, one of the leader is killed-yuddha means one party must be vanquished, fight—then the war is finished. The main person, chief person is now killed, so there is no more war. So yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Those who are taking part in administration, in politics, they must be of this quality, very chivalrous, brave. They have to learn all these quality. Just like the first-class men, they are being trained up in self-controlling, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. And these second-class men, they should be trained up how to fight. Because fight will there be. We do not place this bogus idea that there will be no fight. No. Then fight will be there so long the human society is there. But what for one should fight? That training should be there. Not unnecessarily. In the history of India we find there were two fights: one with Rāvaṇa and another the Kurukṣetra fight. (break) Not at the whims of the leaders. He has got some idea and declare war and engage people. He is safe, now the people are dying. Therefore these leaders, this administration, they require to be guided by the first-class men. So everything will be possible, provided our, this heart is cleansed. And that can be done by this propagation of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child. So every father and mother should take this vow, that "Unless our children become first-class, we don't want children." This is ideal. What is the use of begetting cats and dogs? You must have first-class children. That requires tapasya.
Prabhupāda: They were not selected. The leader—formerly it was monarchy—the monarchs were selected by the advisory board of the first-class men. So they never selected any woman to become the leader of the society.
Woman reporter: What about women who are elected by the people?
Prabhupāda: Well, people election... Just like you elected Nixon and then you wanted him to come down. So this kind of election has no value. Sometimes you elect and sometimes you pull down. So what is the value of this election?
Woman reporter: So a leader should not be elected.
Prabhupāda: Elected, but not by this general public. They have no intelligence. They sometimes elect a wrong man, and again they try to drag him down. So what is the use of such election? Because that election is not sober, not mature. If the election was mature and sober, then there was no need of dragging him down again.
Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process.
Paramahaṁsa: Originally when I came to the movement I asked you this, remember? And you gave lectures on the subject, and I asked you about it. And you asked me for what purpose I wanted it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ. Formerly, especially in Bengal, the gold merchants are taken as—that is artificial, of course—the low class because they are rich, and they indulge in these four kinds of prohibition. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Brahmānanda: What percentage of the popu...
Prabhupāda: Formerly Canada was also American?
Jagadīśa: No.
Brahmānanda: What percentage is French in Canada?
Jagadīśa: About 15 to 20%. In the province of Quebec it is 100% French.
Satsvarūpa: There's a fawn, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: A baby deer.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Ambarīṣa: I never expected to see that here.
Jagadīśa: There were two back there.
Prabhupāda: There is peacock also? No.
Jagadīśa: No.
Ambarīṣa: Possibly in the zoo. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...people, just like China or India. The American invite them, "Come here. Grow your food." Immediately world solution. But they won't... "No, we shall keep it jungle. Still, we shall not allow you to come here." (break) ...come here to hunt.
Prabhupāda: Nobody's taking care.
Harikeśa: They make it clear across. (?)
Prabhupāda: In this place it is closed with wall?
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes. Formerly there was no wall.
Harikeśa: No, there was no wall.
Brahmānanda: Not a brick wall.
Dhanañjaya: That is no... Actually the principal of the college, he has more say in the running of the college than Bon Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: He dictates.
Dhanañjaya: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How many students are in this college?
Prabhupāda: When he comes, Bon Mahārāja, here?
Prabhupāda: Then why they have established Ramakrishna's mūrti? If they worship candle, then why they install Ramakrishna? That is the flaw. They have no standard of knowledge.
Guṇārṇava: Ānanda Prabhu was mentioning that he was speaking to one of the sannyāsīs of the Ramakrishna mission, and they were very concerned because a lot of their disciples were leaving the mission and joining our society. They were very concerned. Their society is not at all expanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was begun long ago. For their hospital, formerly... (bell ringing)
Viśāla (in distance): All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Retired medical practitioners, they used to join. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But nobody is joining now. What is this?
Viśāla: Tad viddhi praṇipātena... (BG 4.34). (etc.) (end)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kaṣṭan kāmān. Unnecessarily creating problems. (break) ...one after another, one after another. Formerly paper was used only for Vedic knowledge. Now the paper used for so many useless newspaper, volumes and volumes and jasusi(?), unnecessarily creating agitation of the mind. And if you explain these things they will say, "This is all primitive ideas." Modern ideas means one must work very hard day and night to get a little piece of capati. Hm? What is the answer.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If we don't work hard they say, "You are a burden on society.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person doesn't work hard day and night they say, "You are just living on society."
Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. The day and night is that pig is working. That I am explaining. Then what is the difference between the pig and me if I am also working hard like that pig? Huh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no difference.
Indian man (5): Continues delusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has imposed death, that "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has grouped them: mūḍha, these rascals, mūḍha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Mohammedan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, freedom movement. What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you approach them for some grievances, "All right, give me application," and, after six months, "No." So we are maintaining for this purpose? Yes. "I say no." That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...ing of freedom, but we have no freedom even to stay in this body.
Brahmānanda: Well, not unless they follow our movement. But those who have followed our movement... Recently there was one study that was published by a very eminent sociologist in America from the University of California, the (sic:) Union Theological Center, and he stated in that book that the members of this movement, formerly they were drug-addicted hippies, and now they have become servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity, loving servants. So he has given proof through intensive interviews that one who follows and joins this movement, dramatically his life becomes changed.
Prabhupāda: Perfect. He is a big professor, and his books are being sold in higher circles. Professor Judah. And he has studied this movement for five years. And... You have got that book?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Show him. So they are appreciating. Appreciation has begun. Formerly they thought it is another edition of hippie movement, but now they are realizing it is not. A cultural. He has given the name of the book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. He is selling at the cost of twelve dollars; still, all high class, educated class, are purchasing.
Prabhupāda: Progress, yes. The progress is that they have got motorcar, and they have progressed how to die quickly. This is the progress. At any moment he can die. As soon as he on the car, 70 miles speed, that means taking the risk of dying at any moment. This is the progress. Formerly people were going in bullock cart or horse carriage from one village to another. "That was primitive. Now we can go hundred miles away from home for earning money and taking risk to die at any moment. That is progress." Is it not?
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.
Prabhupāda: Britishers were advertising outside India that "Indians are uncivilized. Therefore we are making them civilized. Therefore we should stay there. Don't object." Because United Nations, they were asking, "Why you are occupying India?" So they used to forward this argument, that "These people are uncivilized. We are making them civilized." (laughter) Now, how there should be Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose? Therefore they used to suppress always. Everything Indian wanted to do, they would suppress: big businesses, this mining... They would suppress. This Morarji, Sumati Morarji, her father-in-law started that... He had to face so many impediments from the Britishers to start the shipping company. Formerly there was no shipping company, Indian. Now, before that, there was shipping, not shipping company, but navigation was there from India to Rome, Greece, Turkey, there was regular business of spices and fine cloth. Later on, this large-scale shipping industry, that was done by the Europeans. So when Indian wanted to start, they would supress. The Tata iron industry, he had to face so many difficulties. Formerly, even if you wanted to bring some iron frame, it would come from Sheffield.
Prabhupāda: They were formerly Hindus. All Muslims were Hindus formerly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have an Islamic propagation center here, and I went there. I was walking by one day. They invited me in. So they began to blaspheme this and that. So I asked them, "What is your conception of God?" He said, "God is beyond conception." So I told him that "Therefore you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is God and you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is not God, because you don't know what God is."
Prabhupāda: Then what did he say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret.
Prabhupāda: I don’t find. Simply foolishness I accept. And rascal, foolish like you, will believe. (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They argue that five thousand years ago they have no history, so they think that before that time…
Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their rascaldom.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.
Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their… We don’t "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.
Harikeśa: (laughing) It says the earth is square?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they… They say it. Formerly they believed that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Probably does.
Harikeśa: Oh, you mean flat.
Prabhupāda: You’ll fall down. If you go very far, you’ll fall down. Just like a child thinks. Bible, so many have been proved not authorized. Therefore Bible is not authorized.
Harikeśa: So we had this religion, and everybody was saying that this was the correct way, the official policy. So everybody knew this was nonsense. So Darwin is very scientific, so we accept the science.
Prabhupāda: What is that science? He said, "By chance, once, nature came." Is that … ? That is not science. We don’t find, nature's way, by chance it comes. No. As soon as you talk something nonsense, your whole statement will be accepted as nonsense because you are nonsense. What is the value of your statement? This is our test. Once you say something nonsense, you are wholesale nonsense. That is our test. You cannot say, "I am sorry. It was incorrect," no. That is not allowed. Then your whole statement is incorrect. This is our… Harikeśa: Scientists are always doing that. They’re always saying that.
Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got? Where is the scientist to ascertain that "Mr., General Smuts has got now this body. He is living here"? Where is the science? You simply see like a fool and rascal, "My father is gone." Where your father gone? Where did he live so long? Why did you not see him? Where is the science? He is simply crying like a child, "My father is gone." Where he has gone? Find him out. And what he was? Why did you not see so long? This is their knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Gold coins. Formerly there was gold coins. We have seen in our childhood gold coins, silver coins. There was no paper.
Harikeśa: But you have to do something to get it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in Kṛṣṇa book that one fruit man came, and Kṛṣṇa was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is called bartering.
Prabhupāda: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "I'll make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere. So where is the money need of?
Prahupada: Yes. I print ten thousand dollars' worth currency note, and I give you, and I take you, actual goods from you, anywhere.
Harikeśa: The government is doing that all the time. They take contracts from people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on. Therefore price is increasing daily. Formerly British government, in the beginning, to prove their honesty, as soon as you go to the currency for changing, they will offer you, "You want coins or paper currency?" So if you think that paper currency will be convenient, you can take. Otherwise, if you want coins, they will pay you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gold coins.
Prabhupāda: Yes, gold, silver, whatever you want. That was the... Now this is stopped. You can not ask now gold coins and silver coins. Whatever government will give you, you have to accept. Where is honesty?
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in South Africa they have a coin called the Krugerrand. And one rand is worth one hundred cents, one rand of paper money. But one rand gold is worth about seventy-eight rand.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference? Here in the Western countries their climate is also suitable, and they are taught to work very hard like animals. And they do that. Therefore materially they become so-called prosperous for committing suicide. Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.
Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.
Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.
Harikeśa: Africa.
Prabhupāda: Africa or similar, other places. They were living in best places, like India. Now the number of sinful persons are increasing. Therefore they have been transferred here.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: America?
Prabhupāda: Anywhere.
Prabhupāda: In Bengal there is bird. Bengali is also. Every village is a garden like this, and these birds live in such nice garden. Bengal, it is now deserted. Otherwise wherever you go, it is garden. You have seen pukka?
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: When we go from Calcutta to Māyāpur, simply garden. All banana trees, all coconut trees, mango trees, nice green field. But they cannot maintain. Formerly they were maintaining. All gentlemen used to live within the village, they used to take care. Now all gentlemen, they have left. They have gone to the city. Only poor men are there. They cannot maintain.
Brahmānanda: We stopped one time at the home of that minister. He had his home on that road with big gardens.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Tarun.
Brahmānanda: But formerly I had drunk water.
Prabhupāda: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has got multi-energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything. Just like so many things are being manufactured within my body. I haven't got to directly work for it. So similarly, the God's gigantic... Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him. We are... He is God, and we are subordinate because we have many equals, but He has no equal. He is unlimited; we are limited. Parāsya śaktir vivdhaiva śrūyate. He has got multi-energies.
Prabhupāda: Saṁsara-dāvā. You are singing daily. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. One who can deliver from this entanglement of material, miserable condition of life, he is guru. That is the first definition of guru. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa—one who has obtained this qualification—vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāra..., he is guru **.
Yaśomatīnandana: 'Cause nowadays...
Prabhupāda: Nowadays... Nowadays let them talk all nonsense. But this is the definition of guru. "Nowadays the sun is rising on the western side." If somebody says like that, who is going to accept it? "Nowadays." There is no question of "nowadays" and "formerly." The truth is truth always. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute Truth. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold. And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No education. Simply by...
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Even today the jewelers' sons, they are expert in knowing diamonds and they make millions of rupees.
Indian man (6): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all. One knowledge makes him rich.
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
- ekeha kuru-nandana
- bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
- buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
- (BG 2.41)
Avyavasāyinām bahu-śākha. And vyavasāyayinām-one. From practical point of view, from business point of view also, I started this Kṛṣṇa conscious business with forty rupees. Now we have forty crores. Who has got such business success? (laughter) Bring anyone. Within ten years. And here is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He is ready to give us any money, any amount of money, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, yes, whole Ford Company. (laughter) So who has got this business? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I think there is no such history in the world, to begin business with forty rupees, and within ten years it becomes forty crores. One cannot imagine even.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, where is your son? Huh? (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: That was the case with the, this Nanesvara, Santak Nanesvara(?), that his father once became a sannyāsī, and then he came back and had a gṛhastha-āśrama with his wife before he was ordered by his guru...
Prabhupāda: That is the case with Vallabhācārya also. He became sannyāsa, then again back, guru.
Dr. Patel: The sannyāsī cannot come back.
Indian man (2): Oh, Vallabhācārya.
Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya. No, no, Vallabhācārya's whole position is like that. So many of them, all these brāhmaṇas, they think themsevles to be... Some of them are even horrible people; still, they call them gurus.
Prabhupāda: That was formerly also. Śukrācārya: "Ācārya by semina." Śukrācārya.
Dr. Patel: Ācārya of śukra.
Haṁsadūta: We noticed this year at the book fair that they gave so many stands to the Communist publishers. There were at least ten or fifteen stands. And formerly they were not even allowed. They were not allowed. There was not a single one. Three years ago there was not a single stand which had Communist literature in the book fair, and this year there must have been fifteen.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards communism today.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards communism. In Europe, communism is becoming very strong. Italy has almost become communistic. Communist party has captured...
Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Portugal.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Portugal, there's a struggle going on. Even in France the Communist party is very, very strong.
Prabhupāda: Disappointment. Disappointment. People are becoming more and more poverty-stricken. This is the...
Haṁsadūta: They are forced to accept it.
Prabhupāda: The European economic problem is failure.
Harikeśa: So in other words he has to look for food, but man has to make a factory in order to look for food...
Prabhupāda: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food but he... If he does, he is claiming to be more civilized. He has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages they were taking fruits from the trees, and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food. Like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and and making things, complicated. This is your civilization. (a car accelerates past)
Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun you know. It's the only way to enjoy!
Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street is the same. It has no difference of taste.
Prabhupāda: Well, presently or.... That is another foolishness. The, the body and the moving active principle is eternally existing. It is not that formerly the body did not stop acting. It is dead. Study the whole history of human beings, any being—the death is always there. Then what is modern effort? Birth, death, old age, disease. They're always existing. Why do they say "modern"? This is eternal fact. Why they should say it is modern?
Harikeśa: Well, it's the present culmination of synthesis and antithesis.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is their imperfect knowledge. They do not know. What is thesis, what is antithesis, and the synthesis, they do not know. As philosophers, they have found out the three things. But so far the solution of the problem of human society.... You cannot solve the problems of animals' society. That is not possible. So this thesis can be understood by human beings. The animals cannot understand it, that within this body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul, everything is going on, bodily affair. This thesis cannot be understood by the animals. So if you cannot understand, then you are also animal, although you are two-legged. So what is the value of your thesis, antithesis? You are animal.
| Page Title: | Formerly (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 02 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=163, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 163 |