Forest (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"forest" |"forester" |"forests"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: forest* not "go* forest*"@5 not "went forest*"@5 not "forest* fire"@5"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Hayagrīva: Now you say the trees were old friends because He could remember that He was Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa used to play in these forests. He used to play in the forest. Yes. Now He met Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: At Prayag.

Hayagrīva: At Prayag. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad. And...

Hayagrīva: What is His age? I just want to keep checking on this, His age now. Is He twenty, in His twenties still?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa at twenty-four. Say twenty-five, twenty-six years.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world. And Kṛṣṇa, being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He exhibited that He's above any principle of the material world. He's free to act any way He likes. Otherwise what is the meaning... Means full-fledged manifestation of God. Lord Rāma, He married only one, Sītā. And when Sītā was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, He never married again. Or when Sītā was sent to the forest for public opinion, He never married again. He remained a sticked to, stuck to only one wife because He was setting example, moral principle, to the world. Kṛṣṇa married 16,108. Not religious. Religious, He married only eight wife. But these 16,100 girls were kidnapped by one demon, and they were concentrated in a camp. So they prayed to Kṛṣṇa to save them. Kṛṣṇa is kind to everyone. So Kṛṣṇa came to their rescue, and He killed that demon. He rescued all the girls. But the girls requested Kṛṣṇa that "Because we were kidnapped and we are concentrated under his custody, so if we go back to our father, it will be difficult for him to get us married to a suitable prince. So our request is that You marry us." (Prabhupāda laughs) Kṛṣṇa agreed, "All right." He married wholesale, 16,100. (laughter) And that can be possible. Why 16,100? He can marry 16 million at a time. Otherwise how He's God?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Govinda dāsī: Could you describe Kṛṣṇa's pastimes as cowboy whenever He goes out in the morning with the cowherds boys?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Because... Have you seen how the... You have no experience here in your country. Have you got any experience? But in India we have got experience how in the morning the cowboy takes some food from the mother and with the cows he goes to the field. The cows are let loose on the grazing ground. They are enjoying, and this cowboy is sometimes singing. The flute, Kṛṣṇa's flute is because He is cowboy. The cowboys still play in that flute. In India you'll find. Because the cows are let... They are doing their own work, and what this boy will do? They are playing. There are many cowherds boys, they are playing. Sometimes playing on flutes, sometimes sporting, sometimes eating. So Kṛṣṇa was exactly doing like that. All the cowboy friend went with Him. Kṛṣṇa was, of course, a very rich man's son. His father was very rich. So He used to take with Him very nice foodstuff, lugdoo, kacaurī. And other, His poor friends, they were taking capātīs, dry capātīs. (laughs) So they were enjoying, dividing, "Your food, my food, his food." And sometimes there was some trouble in the forest because Kamsa was after Kṛṣṇa to kill Him. He was sending his assistants. So some asura would come, Bakāsura, Aghāsura, and Kṛṣṇa would kill. And the boys would return and narrate the story to their mother. "Oh, my dear mother! Such and such thing happened and Kṛṣṇa killed it! Very..." (laughter) The mother will, "Oh, yes, our Kṛṣṇa is very wonderful!" (laughter)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: And the śūdras are workers, menial workers. But here you have no vaiśyas from this point of view because you have administrative staff... In fact, there is administrative staff. You can call them kṣatriyas. And then śūdras, that's workers themselves. But not this intermediate class.

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization. So if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production, and a class of men to work. That is required. You cannot avoid it. That is the Vedic conception. Mukha-bāhūru-padebhyaḥ.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons.

Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish...

Prabhupāda: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness it will vanish. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, because you desire, He'll give you. He'll give you. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that "Oh, you wanted this? All right, you take!" That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You get both these things. You reject, "No, I asked for..." That is real pure devotion. "For this paltry happiness I requested Kṛṣṇa. What a fool I was." But Kṛṣṇa will give you because you desire. Therefore Dhruva Maharaja regretted that "I was such a fool that I came to in the forest Kṛṣṇa for asking my father's property. What a nonsense I was." But Kṛṣṇa gave. Better than. He demanded that "I shall have a property," because that was child. His stepmother insulted, so he was determined. Nārada Muni had requested him, "My dear boy, you are child. Why you be afflicted to this insult? Go now to play." So he said, "Your instruction is very nice, but I am so degraded, I cannot accept it as such. If you kindly give me some way that I can get," I mean, "material opulence better than my grandfather and father. You just give me such a post." His father was Uttānapāda. Grandfather was Brahma. So he wanted a post better than Brahma. So he was given: "Oh, yes, you'll get." But when he was offered a better position than Brahma, he regretted that "What I..., what a fool I was." He requested, "Sir, I am very much satisfied simply by Your..." "Never mind. You enjoy, then you come back." Kṛṣṇa is so kind.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You see, vegetarian, the pigeon is vegetarian. The monkey is vegetarian. But most rubbish creature.

Bob: Well...

Prabhupāda: A monkey is vegetarian, naked sannyāsī, lives in the forest, the most mischievous.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

So I left Vṛndāvana in 1970 and went to New York. Uh, not. 1965. At the age of 70 years. But for one year I had no place to live. I took some of my books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, printed here, up to three parts, First Canto. And I was personally selling these books to the book sellers and to the persons any way. With great difficulty I was pulling on. And New York is a very expensive city, a great city, a great forest. (laughs) And I am poor man. So then it is a long history. Then I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square, and I think, in the first day this boy, Acyutānanda Mahārāja now, he and another boy, Brahmānanda Mahārāja, he is also preaching in Africa, these two boys danced, and this photograph was published in the New York Times with great details. That was the first encouragement.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation for the author who, of the Vedic literatures. They say: "unknown forest sages."

Prabhupāda: Unknown, it may be unknown, but the things are there. Where from they got the brain? That is our question. It may be unknown to you, or unknown to me, but the brain work is there. The philosophy is there, and the... At least, the language, the poetic arrangement, the linguistic strength, everything is there. So you may not know the person, but you can understand the brain. Just like...

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. The same thing, that the rabbits close the eyes. Yes. Monkeys. And when the monkeys face a tiger, immediately he closes his eyes and the tiger immediately attacks him. So it is like that. He cannot solve the problem—"All right, let it go on." And that is the position. Because our real problem is death. Nobody wants to die. So the scientist cannot give any relief from death. They are talking simply superficially. They cannot give any relief from death. But my real problem is death. I do not wish to die. I do not wish to become old man. What scientists can help me? I do not wish to become diseased. What the scientist can help me? I do not wish to take birth. These things, they cannot do anything. Major problem they have set aside. And they are, what is called, jackal. Yes. There is a story of the jackal. He became the king of the forest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hindi

Prabhupāda: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane āsiyā rāja.(?) "In the forest a jackal has become king." They are like that. Nīla-varṇa-sṛigālavat.(?) When... There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, "What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?" All, even lion became surprised. "We have not seen this." "So who are you, sir?" "I am sent by God to rule over you." "Oh?" So they began to worship him as God, as leader. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, "Wa, wa," but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to "Wa, wa." Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that "Here is a jackal." So we have to expose them. They are not leader; they are jackals. So jackals cannot anymore rule over. That should be our propaganda.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: I think, Mahārāja, after your coming here, all these trees have grown.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only these trees...

Prabhupāda: Only the mango tree I remember...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Others have grown. At night in the forest pastimes, holding a principal part of the Kṛṣṇa-līlā. And when pasturing the cows, then also, forest is necessary. So it will arouse in your mind the memory of Vṛndāvana and the Gauravana. They have got their part to play. And what Uddhava says? (Sanskrit) "I aspire after the birth of a shrub or creeper or a grass in this land because I may have chance of being, having been tread by Your, those divine damsels. Then their feet dust will be on me." So that is a necessary and important part, this vegetable kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."

Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...

Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

Buddhist Monk (1): Is the only way.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But some of this cheating, as you call it, must have, have still been a great use to mankind because it has not been proven at the time when this theory has been evoked by some scientist, it has not been proven that he's right, but he works according to this principle that he has got, and then later...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is explained in Bhāgavatam that in the jungle one big animal is the leader of other animals. That's all. But they're animals. Is it not?

Dr. Hauser: But I don't really understand.

Prabhupāda: In the jungle, in the forest,...

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the lion is considered to be the king of animals. So lion is also animal, only big animal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that "You live like wretched urchins." Kṛṣṇa never says that. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. And this was practically introduced by my Guru Mahārāja, that living in palatial building and riding on first-class cars, one can become the best devotee. Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age. That is the continuation of my Guru Mahārāja, that if one is sincere he can remain a first-class devotee even in this material opulence. And if he would not have introduced, then it was not possible to come here and preach this gospel. That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city. It doesn't matter. He must be devotee. (break)

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, we don't hate. I mean, what they have done in past, their forefathers. They have demolished so many temples. Because they did not... They were all (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: And this is all going on. Even in the Kurus' family, the other party, how much wrong they did to the Pāṇḍavas. They insulted their wife, they took their kingdom, and so many... They sent them to the forest, banishment. What did they not do? It is not the question of Hindu-Muslim. It is the question of the man, who is concerned.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. "You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood." All facility is—the nails, the teeth-given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that "If I could become like this, I would have been happy." So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. "All right, you become this." This is transmigration. This is transmigration. (break) ...yathāndhair upa... We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, "All right, you take this chance; you become like this." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. "You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). That will be beneficial for you, the most confidential instruction. There is that story that one old woman, she was suffering. And she had to collect woods from the forest and sell in the market. So one day, how do you say, she was praying to Kṛṣṇa, or God, that "Kindly help me. I am in very poverty-stricken." So one day, she was carrying that load of fuel. It fell down. So nobody was there to help him. So she began to cry, "Who will help me?" So she began to pray to God "Kindly help me." And God came: "What do you want?" "Who are you, Sir?" "I am God." "Kindly help me to take this burden on my head." Yes. "All right." From God, she's asking, "Please help me to get this burden on my head." That's all. So everyone is going on, "Let family be very happy, my son be married. He may... Let him pass MA examination." But it is the same thing, "Give me the burden on my head." This is the prayer. Mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). The life was meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and worship Him, and he's asking, "Give me the burden on my head." Therefore mūḍha, rascal, fool. He's asking something which will never make him happy, even by merging into the effulgence, Brahman effulgence. It will never make him happy. But he does not know. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep healthy, then you will naturally rise healthy, er rise early in the morning. But if you... Because you have lost all, what is called? Stamina?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me." There are so many incidents. In such city as New York there is always danger like that. If somebody kills you, nobody will take care of you. The human society has become... And in India still, they are not so degraded. You see. Even at night you can safely walk on the street. But in Europe, America, you cannot with confidence walk alone in the big, big streets. So human being has become so degraded. Less than animals. They can attack you. Just like in the forest any ferocious animal can attack you at any minute. The whole big, big cities have become like that. (break)

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not that. Cheating this sense, sometimes just so you, I cheat my child. The father is not cheater, but sometimes it is required.

Guest: Cheating, yeah, tells him that forest leaves are made out of gold to keep the child from crying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the father's cheating is not cheating, but from external point of view it is cheating. You want something, I give something. That is cheating. But that cheating is good for you. When father cheats the child, it is good for the child, but it is cheating. Therefore cheating is not always bad.

Guest: Yes. A great Buddhist saint once said the same thing. He says that "All the scriptures and everything, it means just this, is that it's pretending that forest..."

Prabhupāda: Good, good lessons for...

Guest: "...leaves are made out of gold to keep children from crying," meaning that you have to arrive at truth from your own self, your own understanding. Nobody can, you know, no blind following, as you yourself say. I remember correctly that you used to preach and say, uh, that uh, you shouldn't accept anything blindly.

Prabhupāda: That, in the Bhāgavata it is said, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24).

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: Just like in the forest. The animals, they select the lion to be the king.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gītā, sex life, He says that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varṇa-saṅkara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible. Why this park is kept like this?

Guru-gaurāṅga: It's more of a forest, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-gaurāṅga: But this is surprising. Generally, they cut.

Nitāi: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feed them every time, whenever they do something.

Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). (pause) (break) ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prof. Pater Porsch: May I please put a question before I forget. I heard from our, or I read in the invitation that this center is not only a center as such but something more. It should also be an āśrama and also a forest university in the tradition of the ancient times.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: A kind of a university also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Like Indian and allied sciences, Vedic sciences.

Prabhupāda: My idea is that all our centers should be self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback. You produce your food locally and then support yourself. The main problem is what to eat, where to sleep. So we get some place and support ourself by producing our own food. We have already begun in New Vrindaban, New..., West Virginia, Virginia, and similarly in other centers, we are producing our food, grains, vegetables, fruits and milk. That is sufficient. But we don't kill any animals. That we don't do.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Harrap: Well, you should... The advice is that you keep your general level of fats down, but of the fats that you take, you should increase the ratio between polyunsaturated and saturated. But there is quite a development of milk industry in parts of India. The complex near Annakadana(?), I think, is a very good example of this, isn't it, of the, I believe, the cooperative dairy complex.

Prabhupāda: No, practically also we see. Formerly big, big saintly person they used to live in the forest, and their livelihood was fruits and milk. They used to keep cows and draw milk from them, and whatever fruits are available in the forest, and they have given us these literatures, Vyāsadeva. So the... He has written Mahābhārata, one hundred thousand verses and similarly, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he has given us eighteen thousand verses. And each verse is full of so grave meaning that if you study, it will take months and months together. So they developed such nice brain simply by drinking milk and fruits. Yes.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels there are some people, for example who are teaching the right thing. There are missionaries who go to the Amazon jungles and also to Africa to teach. And he feels they are offering...

Prabhupāda: But we find the great cities are great jungles. A great city is a great forest. (lady begins speaking) Let her come forward.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you have accepted the name of God as Allah, is it not?

Atreya Ṛṣi: But he's saying that their name is material, it's different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, then you have no idea of God. God is not material. God is not material.

Guest: Well, you have said though have a lion, lion who lives in the forest and you write lion.

Prabhupāda: That is material, that is material.

Guest: What you write here is not the true lion. Is, is a way of communication, you put it here in words.

Prabhupāda: Lion is, lion is material, and his name is also material, but God is not material. God is spiritual. Therefore His name is spiritual.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: Any elaboration of what you refer to as vānaprastha college?

Prabhupāda: No, varṇāśrama. Vānaprastha, just like we have got this building. Now, if somebody retires and engages himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are welcome. They can take prasādam and stay here. It is not possible at the present moment that gentleman will live in the forest. That is not possible. Then here is a place, Vṛndāvana, holy place. We have constructed this building, and people should take vānaprastha, or retirement, and may come here and live peacefully and cultivate spiritual knowledge.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But we must all perform yajña?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to perform yajña. And that yajña, at the present moment, is very easy, to... Saṅkīrtanaiḥ yajñaiḥ. It is recommended that we have to recognize the authority of the Lord, and in this age, simply by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña, He will be satisfied. Saṅkīrtana-yajña means to glorify the Lord in so many ways. We glorify the Lord His form, His activities, His name, His quality. So it is not difficult job. We can sit together, family-wise, community-wise, or in office, in factory. We can sit down together and glorify the Lord. Is it very difficult job?

Justin Murphy: You make it sound very, very simple of course.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then why don't you accept it?

Justin Murphy: Well, I for one might. But...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not talking about you.

Justin Murphy: No, no, sure, certainly, but imagine the man, as we have to consider, the men, the thousands of them on their tractors, at their bulldozers, hacking down natural forest...

Devotee: He says we have to consider the men who are working the machines to take down the forest for agriculture... Is that what you mean?

Justin Murphy: The point I'm making is that there are so many people in Australia who would have no time. They are too busy making money. They are too busy doing what...

Prabhupāda: But what you will do with money? If there is no grain, then will you eat money? (laughter)

Justin Murphy: Certainly not.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Money is not required. Required—food grains.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But also... sorry, I don't mean—and perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. I do not mean to address myself only to a problem which is here with us right now. Perth, for example, right now this city does not have a scarcity. There's plenty of water around. Seventy percent in fact of the water which is delivered to domestic homes every summer is put on gardens to make them green. It's not used for growing vegetables. It's not used for human consumption or human existence, for supporting human life. It's used for making lawns such as outside this house, making lawns and trees green so that houses will be attractive and the property values will go up. Once again it's the money ethic. It's the money situation. It's what our society exists on. It's what makes it all go around. But what I am worried about is the situation in a hundred years' time. There isn't a scarcity now, although the water is getting, is becoming less and less acceptable, where, by taking down the forests, we're letting more water seep into the soil, it's unlocking the salt that's been in the soil for thousands of years, and so on.

That's our problem. It's long term and it's complex. I'm worried about generations to come, not now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If there is rainfall sufficiently, that water is distilled water, pure water. So if pure water is distributed all over the country...

Justin Murphy: It's pure when it hits the ground, but it isn't, unfortunately, when it comes out into the streams.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Paramahaṁsa: He says it's pure when the rain comes down, but when it hits the ground it becomes impure and then the salt gets in it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is not... Rain water is pure water.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Twenty-eight. So up to fifty years you remain gṛhastha and take care of wife, children. Work honestly and attend the... You prove an ideal gṛhastha. That will be very nice. Don't change your mind.

Devotee: So they'll be able to take care of the situation there by themselves?

Prabhupāda: Who?

Devotee: In Hong Kong?

Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...killed the Gardhabhāsura in the palm forest. The fruit is so tasteful but the cowherds boy could not enter the forest on account of this demon.

Brahmānanda: Which demon was that?

Jayatīrtha: Dhenukāsura.

Prabhupāda: Dhenuka... Not Dhenukāsura. Gardhabhāsura. Dhenukāsura also, they come?

Brahmānanda: That was that ass.

Prabhupāda: Ass, ass, yes. (break)

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, because the Christian theologians do not have very much information about God, they are being very much influenced by these scientists and their conceptions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The same example. A lion is accepted as the king. He is considered to be the king of the beasts in the forest. And he is very much praised. But a human being will see that the lion is also an animal and those who are praising him, they are also animals. Is it not? So if some animals praises another animal, does it mean that the animal is very big? It may be very big for these animals, but lion is not very big thing to the human being. They can capture it. It is nothing. Actually, they capture and keep it in the zoo. So for a human being both the big animal and a small animal, they are animals, although the small animals praise the big animal. Do you follow what I said?

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa and His friends would play sometimes, catch with fruits in the forest?

Prabhupāda: Fruits?

Devotee (3): Bael fruits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are playing in so many ways.

Devotee (2): (break) ...zoo our men distributed over four hundred pieces of literature inside the zoo. (break) Back to Godhead magazines?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Jayatīrtha: How to get a God conscious leader?

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That effort was for life after life. Then when his effort will be successful he will realize Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19).

Prof. Hopkins: So his problem was the effort to attempt to do this on his own without going through...

Prabhupāda: The guru.

Prof. Hopkins: The guru.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it will take time. Just like a man searching after the right path but he does not care to ask anybody, he is loitering in the forest.

Prof. Hopkins: You... I'm sure you're familiar with his essays on the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Both sides forest. (break) Now in America there is no sufficient men to live in all these places, to cut, clear it and make cottages and utilize the land for producing. There is no sufficient men, I think. And where there is overpopulation, why not invite them to come here? That they will not do. (break) ...has given sufficient land for all the people, but we have made artificial national area, will not allow.

Guru dāsa: In India this would all be utilized for living.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These places also should be allowed to the people who are overpopulated. No visa, no immigration. The whole world is simply mismanaged for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pramattaḥ, the word used, pramattaḥ, mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma: (SB 5.5.4) "All people mad and engaged in misdeeds only for sense gratification." (break) ...this room?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Now it is just used for garbage.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...all like this, jungle?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, all along this creek there's a forest like this. This has been done in Philadelphia all along the river, and this huge area of land has been set aside. It's like this. No one can use it except to take walks. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question that I wrote to Śrīla Prabhupāda, the answer that Śrīla Prabhupāda gave me was that the cells in the body and the jīvātmā that resides in the heart, they are different living entities. But my understanding was directed to the relationship between the two, the jīvātmā in the cells and the jīvātmā in the heart, how they are related, how they...

Prabhupāda: They are separate identity.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Satsvarūpa: "Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude,..."

Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow. Find out this verse from Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Those who are vaiśyas... Economic development... Vaiśya means economic development. They should produce ample food grains and give protection to the cows. Just like our Kṛṣṇa's life, His foster father was a vaiśya. So he is keeping so many hundred thousands of cows, and Kṛṣṇa was entrusted to take charge of the calves, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So although They were very rich father's son, still They were taking the calves in the forest for tending in childhood. Still... You have seen in Māyāpur? The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done.

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: ...been all jungle like this at one time.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Gardens, not jungle.

Dhanañjaya: Not jungle. Forest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vana means forest. What is this?

Dhanañjaya: This is garden.

Prabhupāda: Acala-vihāra Gosvāmī. (break)

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): And Śiva always worshiped Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is another thing. They, "If you believe that Lord Śiva is the Supreme, why don't you go and establish? Why you are sitting here and declaring jagad-guru?" Their purpose was that "Either you worship Śiva or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but if you would have done something that would have spread the Hindu conception of... But you are not doing there anything. Why do you call yourself jagad-guru?" (Hindi) "A jackal is the king in the forest." And they do not go outside. Even Gaṅgeśvarānanda went; he came back disappointed. What they will do? Cinmayananda goes so many times. What does he do? (Hindi) (break) He is so big. What does he have? What he has done? This thing going on. Phalena paricīyate. One has to be studied by the result, not by talking. It is not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted the subject of preaching only unto me. Why they do not go, the gosvāmīs, swamis, big, big sannyāsīs, and stalwart? Why they are rotting within this area?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No one has ever considered such things before.

Prahupada: No..., where is the man? All animals. Man will think. One with knowledge, he will think. And what the animal will think? Anyone who is not a devotee, he is animal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The big animal is being worshiped by a small animal. That's all. A lion in the forest is worshiped by the small animals. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He is also animal. So similarly, all these leaders, these scientists, these philosophers, they are applauded by the small animals, but they are also animals, big animal, that's all. The test is whether he understands the spirit soul different from the body. If he does not understand he is animal, that's all. Maybe big animal, that is a different thing. Big or small, animal is animal.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But I think people would... Most people would go crazy if they didn't have any work.

Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard. So real aim of life is to... In German, I think, or somewhere there is classification: "Lazy intelligent, busy intelligent, lazy fool, and busy fool." So at the present moment (laughs) the whole world is full of busy fools. But the first-class man, he is lazy intelligent. Lazy and intelligent, that is first-class man. And second-class man, busy intelligent. And third class means lazy fool and fourth class means busy fool. When the fools are busy... Just like nowadays they are busy but they are fools. Like monkey, he is very busy. You see? And they prefer to be generation of monkey, busy fool. That's all. Fools, when he is busy, he is simply creating havoc. That's all. Better... Lazy fool is better than him because he will not create so much harm, but this busy fool will simply create harm. And first class-man is lazy intelligent. He knows the value of life, and soberly he is thinking. Just like all our great saintly persons. They were living in the forest, meditation, tapasya, and writing books. All, you will find, lazy intelligent. They are first-class men.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Kṛṣṇa. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Kṛṣṇa? You have to cooperate. Otherwise... (man yelling in background) What is that? (laughter) Huh? They are criticizing us? No.

Brahmānanda: He's imitating the birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) Just like this tendency was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. In the forest the two brothers and other cowherds boys, they were also imitating. They were flying. The bird is flying; they were also flying like this. And coming to the monkey, coming to the peacock and imitating the..., like this. These are description in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: There's a philosophy that says that if a tree falls down in a forest and I am not there to see it, then it hasn't happened.

Prabhupāda: There is philosophy?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their logic? Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Want to see everything with their own eyes.

Girirāja: They think the existence of the tree is dependent on their sense perception.

Prabhupāda: Gladstone or what, that poet? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." Therefore there is no flower? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." This is foolish philosophy. Now this plane is going. After half an hour it will not be seen. Does it mean it is finished? (laughter) There is no more?

Indian man (7): But also in the sky we can see something. I can see many things. I can see something. It is not vacant space. Only thing I don't know what it is.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot see the stars. Can you see the stars now?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: They give the example that if a tree falls in the forest and there is no man there to hear it, then actually it has not fallen.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: This is a philosophical example which is... This is the most common example they give, that if a tree falls in the forest but there is no man there, there is no one there to hear it, then actually it has never happened. Unless someone perceives it, then it does not exist. So they feel that when they discover something, at that time it begins to exist by their becoming conscious of it.

Prabhupāda: What is that explanation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if you're sleeping and I kill you and you weren't conscious that I was killing you, then you're still alive?

Prabhupāda: You are not killed. Then it comes as a... You can go to the court: "It is not killed."

Hṛdayānanda: They will say that... No, I will say. I will take the part of the rascal.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: I'll be the rascal. "No, actually I am killed, because even though I may not be conscious of it, someone is conscious of it. As long as someone must be... Just when something... It is necessary that someone be conscious of it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, supposing in the woods. You're in the woods and I kill you during your sleep. There is no other human being there.

Hṛdayānanda: "But you were conscious of it. You were conscious of my death, so therefore my death is a fact."

Prabhupāda: Then in the forest there are no animals?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They cannot... They are not conscious?

Hṛdayānanda: Well, if an animal hears, that's all right also. As long as someone is conscious.

Prabhupāda: In the forest there are many animals, hundreds and thousands. They are conscious that tree has fallen. Then?

Hṛdayānanda: Then it would also be acceptable. As long as some living being has...

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Everywhere someone is conscious. There is no vacancy. So this is useless talking, fool's talk.

Hṛdayānanda: In the outer space there is no consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Who says? The fools say. There are consciousness. There are so many birds flying from one planet...

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, here, the doll-makers, they can make dolls within fifteen days. Finished. They can do, so expert.

Gurudāsa: That should be life-size.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: It should be life-size, like walking into the forest of Naimiṣāraṇya.

Prabhupāda: Life-size or not life-size. Three feet, four feet, that will be...

Haṁsadūta: The old exhibits can be sold to the visiting temples. They can take them back to their...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.

Jayapatākā: BBT.... BBT did such nice packing with this modern styrofoam that they could easily move even fragile dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He proved that "You are a rascal. One who puts this argument, he's a rascal."

Akṣayānanda: That was just an excuse to avoid fighting.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa clearly chastised him that "You are talking like a fool." Eh? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān: (BG 2.11) "Talking like a very learned man, but you are a fool. No learned man speaks like that." Why they have kept this nice road within this forest? What is the idea?

Hari-śauri: There's some village on the other side?

Akṣayānanda: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This government department, forest department.... The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society—industry. So the reaction is.... The industry, two things required—four things required: land, labor, capital, and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that "We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?" This is communism. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but the ideal is vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and depend on Kṛṣṇa and live there. And that is perfection. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Go to the forest and remain, depending on Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Lokanātha: There are no forests left.

Hari-śauri: The whole material world's a forest.

Prabhupāda: There are so many forests in America, full of forests still. Africa, so many forests, big, big forests.

Akṣayānanda: (break) ...Kali-yuga we cannot do that due to our conditioning.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari śauri: Fifth Canto describes the whole material world is a forest.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Of enjoyment.

Lokanātha: Forest of enjoyment. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They go in the village for begging little food, that's all. Just like you can live in this forest. And what you will eat? Two cāpāṭi. So you can go and beg. That's all. Whole day's business finished. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Lokanātha: It's too simple to understand.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Lokanātha: It's so simple, we cannot realize how simple it is.

Akṣayānanda: But if we tried to do that, wouldn't it be sort of artificial?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I tell him this way. Just give books. Transcendental fraud, that we give, say, fifty rupees' worth book, and we draw 2222. Buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya nirbuddhes tu balaṁ kutaḥ.(?)Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You know that story? Eh? You know that story, buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya?

Dr. Patel: "The man who has got the buddhi is a strong man."

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Paśya siṁho madonmataḥ śaśaḥ kena nipatitaḥ.(?) This is Hitopadeśa story. You know this?

Dr. Patel: No, I don't know this.

Prabhupāda: There was a lion in the forest, and he was disturbing all the animals. So there was a peace conference: "Sir, you don't disturb every one of us. We shall come."

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Eka eka.... (Hindi) "We shall come automatically." So one day it was the turn of a rabbit. So he was a little late, so the lion, "Why you are late? My time is over." "Yes sir, another lion in the way, he wanted to eat me. So I said, 'No, you cannot eat me. I will be eaten by such and such Mr. Lion.' " So he became very..., "Who is that?" "Yes, come on. I will show you." So he got him near a well, and he said that "Here is the lion." So immediately, (growls) "Aww!" (laughter) And there was sound, "Aww!" Then he saw the photo, I mean, the reflection, and immediately jumped over.

buddhir yasya balaṁ tasya

nirbuddhes tu kuto balaṁ

paśya siṁho madonmataḥ

śaśaḥ kena nipatitaḥ(?)

A śaśa, the rabbit, killed a big lion by intelligence. The Aesop's Fable was imitated from this Hitopadeśa.

Dr. Patel: Yes, all are translated more or less.

Prabhupāda: The Hitopadeśa was written by Viṣṇu-śarmā. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That. Then there is perfection, if you take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. So this vegetarianism is no good position.

Dr. Patel: No, no, the Jains have, I mean, pushed the vegetarians to a very, I mean, to an extent which is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the benefit? The benefit? The goats are vegetarian. Eh? There are so many animals. They are vegetarian. The monkeys are vegetarian.

Dr. Patel: They are perfect vegetarian. Perfect.

Prabhupāda: And they live in the forest.

Dr. Patel: They are sannyāsīs. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: But number-one rogue. Each of them keeping one dozen women, at least, and no discrimination between wife or daughter. No discrimination. Just like hogs. That's all. No discrimination.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Where is material necessity? Even for the cats and dogs, there is no material necessities. It is all supplied by Kṛṣṇa. It is simply māyā that "I am in material necessities." There are eight million lower species of life. Who is doing business for his...? We, simply civilized men, we are doing this. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is supplying everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies everything. Even the ant within the hole of your room, are you giving any food?

Devotees: No.

Prabhupāda: Then how he's living? And the elephant in the forest of Africa. Who is going to give them food? How they're living? From the elephant to the ant, He's providing, and He cannot provide you. This is all mistaken idea. You haven't got to ask. Everything is there. Because in the.... (break)

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can make a big plane, but they can't make a mosquito. It's so thought-provoking. Here's that article by Dharmādhyakṣa that you liked.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That article about, he wrote from Vancouver. It was in that small pamphlet that they sent to Los Angeles. "Simple Living and High Thinking." It had a picture of a forest, a stream in the background, and your picture in a little square was superimposed over it.

Hari-śauri: We got it in Hawaii. Yes, it was for that Habitat conference.

Prabhupāda: So we are not politicians, but we give some idea. Is it not good?

Kīrtanānanda: We have political philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our movement: Take instruction of God, follow it, and you'll be happy. What is this?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So there is no question of voluntarily, but it must be. And one must carry out by the order of a spiritual master and the order of the śāstra. That is called tapasya. Just like in our line ekādaśī is compulsory. One may feel some inconvenience fasting or simply eating fruits. No. It must be done. There are so many rules and regulations which is essential. It must be done. That is called tapasya. Without consideration whether it is convenient or inconvenient for you, which is, must be done, that is called tapasya. Tapaḥ, divyam... Just like Rsabhādeva orders that this human life is meant for tapasya. Therefore in our Vedic civilization we find so many rules and regulations. This is tapasya. From the very beginning of life, brahmacārī, to go to the spiritual master's place and act like menial servant. Nicavat. It is said. If the spiritual master says that "You go and pick up some wood from the forest," and one may be a king's son, but he cannot deny it, the spiritual master's order, "You must go." As Kṛṣṇa, He was ordered to go and pick up some dry wood from the forest. So He had to go. Although He was, His father was Nanda Mahārāja, a village vaiśya king, and Kṛṣṇa was Personality of Godhead, but He could not deny. He had to go. Nicavat. Just like menial servant. That is called brahmacārī. This is tapasya. So tapasya is so essential that one has to do it.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force. So people will be very much embarrassed by two things: one thing is taxation, and another thing will be scarcity of food. In this way, all the people all over the world will be embarrassed, so much so that they will leave their home, hearth and home, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being separated from family and property, they will take shelter in the hilly ranges or in the forest to get relief. This will be the position. Harassment, so much harassment, by nature, by government. So therefore for complete happy society, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. All intelligent persons, they should join this movement and reform the present social, political, religious. All field of activities, they should reform. Then people will be happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force. So people will be very much embarrassed by two things: one thing is taxation, and another thing will be scarcity of food. In this way, all the people all over the world will be embarrassed, so much so that they will leave their home, hearth and home, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being separated from family and property, they will take shelter in the hilly ranges or in the forest to get relief. This will be the position. Harassment, so much harassment, by nature, by government. So therefore for complete happy society, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. All intelligent persons, they should join this movement and reform the present social, political, religious. All field of activities, they should reform. Then people will be happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1).

Morning Walk Around Grounds -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Snake here?

Devotee (5) : There are some, yes.

Devotee (2): There's a big one in the forest. It has not got any water in it, very big.

Devotees: Snake? (laughter)

Bhagavān: He thought you said lake.

Prabhupāda: Python?

Hari-śauri: He thought you said a lake. So he said there's a big one in the forest. But you were talking about a snake.

Prabhupāda: Snake, yes. There is a big snake here? (laughter)

Hari-śauri: No. He was talking about a lake, for water.

Bhagavān: Kirtana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: The statement made the other day by the king that all the forests and natural resources were made by God. No man can make these things.

Prabhupāda: The king?

Nava-yauvana: The king said that.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? Kṛṣṇa gives the water from the sky. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).

Parivrājakācārya: They say in the books that this area used to be all forest with many, many trees two to three thousand years ago. It was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert, the rain has stopped since then.

Prabhupāda: Because the yajña stopped.

Pradyumna: The Sahara Desert used to be all trees, very fertile. Sahara Desert in Africa, it is the biggest desert in the world. Nothing...

Prabhupāda: Sahara, Sahara.

Pradyumna: Sahara Desert. It used to be very rich thousands of years ago, but then became desert.

Hari-śauri: It's supposed to increase its size by ten miles every year.

Pradyumna: Desert growth. Formerly, that city Carthage used to be there. Carthage was fighting Rome. Carthage was very rich, all farms.

Prabhupāda: Cartharian civilization was very big civilization. The thing is that the more people become sinful, they'll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I'm surprised that moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Well, my problem is that I have to have somewhere to live and I have to get something to eat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that Kṛṣṇa's solves. Yes, Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) produce food grains. You have to work because it is material world. You cannot sit idly. Even if you are a very strong tiger, you don't expect that animals will come and enter your mouth. You have to work for it. This is the world. Na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. Suppose a lion... He's the king of the forest. And if he says, "It is my order, I'll sleep here and all the animals may come in my mouth." The animals will urine on his face. "Yes, we shall pass urine on your face. We are not going to accept your order." You have to work. Practical, everyone has to work. This is the third nature. Avidyā karma-saṅga. Because here everyone is under ignorance, the punishment is he has to work for his living condition. Work is not very pleasing. It is very troublesome. But he has to. Avidyā karma-saṅga. You have to work. Therefore we see practically that countries who are working very diligently, they are materially prosperous. Europe, America, they work very diligently, hard, and they have got material prosperity. And the Eastern countries, they are not working, intelligent. From material point of view. From spiritual point of view that is another thing.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Who has done it? A seven-years-old boy lifting the mountain. That is mythology. When Kṛṣṇa shows something wonderful, that is mythology. Mythology, Vyāsadeva has written mythology. And big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya and Madhvācārya, big, big, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have studied this mythology and given their comments. Another common sense is that there are hundreds and thousands and millions planets. There is no life, everywhere, rocks and sands, and everything is here? Here there are rocks and sands and there are living entities, there are forests, there is greenness, everything. Variety. Why other planets without varieties? If somebody has created, why he's so dull that he has created everything here, and everywhere simply rocks and sands? And what business he has to do this? Rocks and sand? How he has misspent his valuable time for creating rocks and sand? And wherefrom the sand came? Scientifically, sand is there where there is sea. Because sand is sodium silicate. It is manufactured from salt. So without water there is no question of sand. These things have to be considered. And rock is also combination of sand.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...forest, naked, renounced, eating fruits. But debauch number one. Markaṭa-vairāgya. There are so many vairāgīs. Markaṭa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei 'ta kali-celā. Here is a disciple of Kali. Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. But has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck. But is Kali-celā-number one disciple of Kali. You know this song? Kali-celā. These persons who are committing sinful life—don't say anyone (laughs) or publish—there will be trouble. But that's a fact. Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they'll get next life—a monkey. To remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. Because as soon as animal life is obtained, there is no more further record of the sinful life. The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account. For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be... That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana?

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There are aborigines in India. Santal, (?) they are called santal. Black men, live in the forest like the African aborigines. So I asked him that "You, jungle, do you meet the tigers?" "Oh, yes, yes. Why not?" "So how do you save yourself?" So he had a small axe in his hand. So he showed me that "So long I have got this axe, even the tiger will not dare to attack me." (Bengali or Hindi) After all, tiger is afraid of the axe. They are afraid of even stick. That immediately they understand, "He's superior." Actually man is superior with some weapon. I have got personal experience. He said, "He's a big tiger. But we treat them like dogs." One axe. They keep always. Just like we keep a stick, they keep one axe.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to come and have a look at the guest house.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So prepare for fight. Don't be afraid. Arjuna, they were five brothers and the other party, one hundred brothers. Therefore Dhṛtarāṣṭra was confident, that "What are these five brothers without any help, we have ruined them. They were in the forest for thirteen years. Lost all connection, no kingdom. I have got government in hand, and my sons are, hundred sons, and we are well equipped. How? Therefore the... Bring that Bhagavad-gītā, dṛṣṭvā tu pāṇḍavāṇīkam (BG 1.2).

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: There will be proper rainfall. And if there is proper rainfall, then you get sufficient food grains, not only food grains, other things also. Sarva-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the earth you can get all the necessities of life. Actually you are getting food grains, minerals, trees, fruits, flowers, everything from the earth. Sarva-dughā, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. This mahī, when it is soaked with proper rains, it becomes fertile. Therefore we have to depend on the rainfall. There is one verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya means rainfall. Rainfall means it is supplying all the necessities of life. And this rainfall will be easy when there is yajña. And nobody is performing yajña; therefore nowadays rainfall is scarcity. In Europe recently I have seen, there is no rainfall, whole Europe. It is on the verge of drying everything. So this punishment will come in this Kali-yuga. There will be no rainfall, and there will be not sufficient food supply, and the government will simply levy taxes on different pleas and people will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their hearth and home and flee away to the forest. It is stated. So therefore you must perform yajña. And that is very easy in this age. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32).

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...

Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani (BG 9.3). Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar (pig) position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this suar?" (laughter)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Bhāgavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Africa they're open.

Bhāgavata: Yes, in that national park in Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.

Bhāgavata: This is an Indian lion, from India. They have captured in India. And they also have African lions in here.

Gurukṛpa: Gujarati. It's a Gujarati.

Bhāgavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) (break)

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...in the forest. In the park.

Satsvarūpa: They were not even in cages. I met an Indian man on the plane coming here, and I was speaking on the Bhagavad-gītā. I was saying that "In your next life a person could become an animal." He said, "No. The Bhagavad-gītā teaches if you come to human life, then you don't be reborn lower." I asked him to show me a verse. He didn't know.

Prabhupāda: "Then why you are talking like rascal?" You should have said like that.

Satsvarūpa: He said, "I know Bhagavad-gītā, and my father and all our relatives, we all study Bhagavad-gītā." But he couldn't...

Prabhupāda: "And you do not know anything." (laughter) What is the use of... So we shall go further? No.

Bhāgavata: Would you like to return?

Prabhupāda: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So what is the use of living longer, a tree is living longer, five thousand years. Does it mean that it is important life? A tree is standing for seven thousand years. There is a tree in San Francisco.

Gurukṛpā: Yes, I saw that.

Prabhupāda: You have.

Hari-śauri: Redwood forest.

Prabhupāda: And from the stoutness and strongness it will live another seven thousand years. Does it...? Is it living, worth living, to stand up very stout and strong in a place for fourteen thousands of years? Is that life? Hm? I have spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness within ten years, and he is standing eight thousand years. So credit goes to him or to me? Better to live for ten years than to live for ten thousand years in that condition. And therefore they are ass, mūḍha. They do not know what is life. What improvement they have made?

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: ...to show me. They were telling me that "You are going to see the representative of God." And when I came to that vision, I saw the person. At that time I didn't know who (it) was. But I had some doubts in my mind, and I was thinking, "Oh, that's probably another kind of propaganda." This was all in the dream. But when I came to that person sitting on the elevated seat in that forest, surrounded by many, many devotees, that person looked at me and proved to me that he was the representative of God. But after, I forgot. Maybe one year or something like this. One or two years after...

Prabhupāda: So there is no doubt about it that I am the representative of God.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But when I was...

Prabhupāda: Either you dream or not dream, I claim.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.

Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.

Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...

Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?

Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.

Prabhupāda: Inside of the pyramid?

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The learned scholars, they used to live in the forest. Vyāsadeva was writing in śāmyaprāśa cottage. (chuckling) That is university. And no university can produce such scholar or student, not imperfect. They're all rascals. What are the values of these MA, Ph.D? (break) It is humbug. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43).

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday I made a tour of Manipur to see a possible location for a temple, and I saw a nice place.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just near the present temple of Govinda that I was talking. It is a small forest full of monkeys, and they are so friendly.

Prabhupāda: Monkeys are very friendly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They're much more friendly than monkeys in Vṛndāvana. (laughing) I have seen that many, very healthy. There's some sort of welcome people coming. There are many. That place is some sort of a central place of Imphala. It's a very..., spiritually, a very conducive area. Many kinds of birds, and it's very natural surroundings. So I went with two of our life members, and they are thinking that maybe we can approach the government so that we can get the land from Manipur government, and then we can construct a temple.

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things. My presence or no presence, we have got now a position. We have to push on this movement very cautiously.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So am I right when I speak, say like that?

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: And it's also described that the great sages in the forest who were worshiping Rāma, they wanted to associate with Him in a particular way which was not possible because He was acting as the ideal king, so He said that "In My future appearance as Lord Kṛṣṇa, I will fulfill all of your desires."

Prabhupāda: And besides that, in the Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā, this name Rāma is mentioned.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.39)

Kṛṣṇa is the original God and Rāma is expansion. Not only Rāma-other incarnations. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many.

Ram Jethmalani: Rāmādi.

Prabhupāda: Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These monkeys are very friendly. They wait until they are given. They don't just steal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana they're a problem now.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were so enthusiastic that they even gave me a blueprint of the map of Manipur to show Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is the... Here is the capital, here, in the middle, Imphal. And the one is little smaller, in Imphal, in the capital. And it is also very close to the Govinda Temple that I was describing. And there is a mūrti of Hanumān that the people worship there in this... It's just like little forest. In the middle of this forest there is a small, little temple. There they worship Hanumān.

Prabhupāda: Govindajī Temple?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is just in front.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it is right in the middle of the center, this place, this forest?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the... And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.

Prabhupāda: Seven acres.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven acres is a big plot.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Climate is fine, particularly of the place where we have our headquarters, very pleasant, in summer especially, very pleasant. We don't have bad nights.

Prabhupāda: Why not go? If we go there, eh? In this time?

Mr. Dwivedi: The... In the way it might not be so pleasant, but when we have reached there it is quite pleasant because we are at a height of about 684 feet, then surrounded by forest. So therefore we don't have this heat wave in that area. And especially when we are at our college building we can telephone not to...

Prabhupāda: So why not go?

Mr. Dwivedi: ...cover with the blanket.

Prabhupāda: So if we go and stay there and organize...

Mr. Dwivedi: I mean, these days it's quite pleasant at our headquarters, but Gwalior, it is very hot.

Prabhupāda: No...

Mr. Dwivedi: Mosquitos also.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go there.

Mr. Dwivedi: At our place it's quite fine.

Prabhupāda: Building is there.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, Swamiji, not one buildings. Lot of buildings.

Prabhupāda: So many. So why not think over it? Let us go there for some time and organize.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Kārttikeya: What is the height of the place, from the sea level?

Mr. Dwivedi: Sea level, we are 1700 feet.

Prabhupāda: That's all...

Mr. Dwivedi: And then all round about is forest.

Kārttikeya: Forest is there.

Mr. Dwivedi: Oh, yes.

Kārttikeya: That's good thing.

Mr. Dwivedi: Hardly we can't walk even for, say, half a mile. Then forest comes up.

Kārttikeya: That is very good thing, not only the height.

Prabhupāda: Forest breeze is very healthy. So let us arrange.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the great saintly persons in India, they used to live in forest. What food? Only fruits and milk. Sometimes they use to take grains. Otherwise milk and... Simple milk is all food, cow's milk. I want to take cow's milk. This is all rubbish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Really?

Prabhupāda: Little cow's milk twice.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the pla... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."

Prabhupāda: Hm, Shivapuri.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...is best in Madhya Pradesh." He knew of it.

Prabhupāda: Forest and open place combined together becomes healthy. Besides that, in particular place the water is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say best in district.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said it was the best well in the district.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are taking part in the World Book Fair in Russia. The space is already booked.

Prabhupāda: That you have already told.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa treated the monkeys as a pet?

Prabhupāda: Friends.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Friends.

Prabhupāda: He was giving butter. In the forest playing with them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating also.

Prabhupāda: Playing. If you give them to eat something, they become friendly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey's tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, (laughs) nonsense.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayādvaita: "One day when Kṛṣṇa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest..." It's just up here. "Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children, exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṇa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man."

Prabhupāda: Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore He inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?" Is it clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw that yajña that was going on. I mean that hall is first-class looking. Even though this is not the final hall that we'll be building, still, it is one of the nicest decorated halls I have seen, with chandeliers. They rented chandeliers, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean it looks very elegant. Everyone is impressed. They never expected. These scientists probably think that Vṛndāvana is some forest. I mean, suddenly they came into a scientific conference. And naturally, after the conference, they are attracted to go into the temple, and then they get darśana. And they're taking prasādam. It's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)