Fish (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"fish" |"fishes" |"fishlike"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can accept that the soul is not burned, but what about the body?

Prabhupāda: Body is burned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So how can any body live in the sun?

Prabhupāda: So they are.... No, if.... They have got fiery body. As your body is made of earth, the fish body is made of water, and the so many others, different elements, so similarly, there the body is made of earth..., er, fire, fiery body. The so-called scientist, educationist, they.... Everything they conclude according to his own position. Therefore avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). They think Kṛṣṇa also "like me."

Acyutānanda: The fish is in the water, but the fish is not water.

Prabhupāda: No, fish is not water, but he has got a body suitable for the water.

Acyutānanda: So the people on the sun have earthly bodies...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: ...who can tolerate heat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no heat. They live.... Just like.... They are not suffocated. They don't feel any inconvenience. They enjoy. Against the waves they enjoy. You cannot go against the waves. They can go, even small fish. You'll find within this there are so many animals, so many. How they are living?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: They have no guidance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night when we were reading, they all left, especially on that point of following the regulative principles: no meat, crabs, fish, eggs. They all got up and walked out.

Prabhupāda: You said that the same cooking place will have to do, where they are cooking meat?

Harikeśa: They're not cooking it now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: They're not doing that now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...is not planning. When he comes here he is determined that he will not eat in anyone's home.

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Boat is worth seeing. (laughter) (break)

Jayapatāka: He's the only one who gives out fish prasāda. Even the ricksaw drivers don't take his prasāda. They say it is unclean. (break)

Prabhupāda: Lady?

Jayapatāka: In this house here. There's one lady lives here. One of the devotees was walking. He said she hears the kīrtana at night. One widow.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...bus came here.

Bhavānanda: Down this road, turns here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It goes to Krishnagar.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Harikeśa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just...

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without airplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds—they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another. Take rest, again another. What is the value of your airplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds; they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become, it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any airplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive. I cannot fly in the sky but a small sparrow, it can go from here, here, immediately. Does it mean he is very advanced in yogic power because he can fly? You are proposing that. Nothing is any big achievement. The big achievement is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted. Not these things. These things.... You cannot do; I can do. I cannot do; he can do.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Hari-śauri: That John Paul Getty is the richest man in the world, and they asked him, "What would be your wish if you could have anything?" He said, "I just want to be healthy. I've got so much money but I'm not healthy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many. There was a big, rich man in Calcutta, Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura. So just like you give me so many things, he was king, he was getting more supply, but he had no appetite. So one day he was given so many things—because it was routine. So one coolie was going on the street, taking a fish and chanting very pleasingly. So he said that "Instead of becoming Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura, if I could have been a coolie like that, at least I could enjoy by eating. And what is this? I have got everything but I cannot eat." He regretted, "I would have become a coolie like that instead of becoming a Ṭhākura."

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...businessman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We are selling Bhāgavatam; they are selling fish.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Gurukṛpā: When we went over to the Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta's samādhi that morning, there were so many fish in the pond that the water was constantly moving. It was very beautiful.

Jayādvaita: (break) Instead of building you the house, we should print books, but I think we have to build you the house because the person bhāgavatam is as good as the book Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the conclusion. Yes. Bhāgavata paragiya bhāgavata sthāne. One has to learn book Bhāgavata from the person bhāgavata. Bhāgavata paragiya bhāgavata sthāne.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Everything, water supply, everything is there? In the beginning I thought that "Such a big building. Who will come and live here?" (laughter) It is that Matsyāvatāra. You know Matsyāvatāra? Keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. That one muni, he took water in his pot. He saw a fish. So after some time he saw the fish has grown, that it cannot be kept in that kamaṇḍalu. Then he gave more space. Then after some, he saw, He has.... "It is filled up." Again more, again more. Then he threw it in the ocean, and again still big. (chuckles) That is Kṛṣṇa. Pralaya-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedam **. And who knows this song,

pralaya-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ

vihita-vahitra-caritram akhedam

keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare **

Similarly Varāha-mūrti also.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They eat grass?

Guru-kṛpā: They eat meat. They eat fish. They are making milk also.

Prabhupāda: Milk is there, but it is not that it is due to eating such and such.

Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, that doesn't prove anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Milk is there.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just to see how the animal is jumping. (to passers-by:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, jaya. (chuckles) Just like a fish is given freedom, even if he's caught up by the trap. It is like that.

Madhudviṣa: So Lord Caitanya had him on the line all the time.

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya was waiting, "Let the rascal go on speaking. How long he can speak?" (laughs)

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...by taking birth of any, whether the tree is taking birth or the ant is taking birth and the fish is taking birth. Everywhere, living entities, they are taking birth, that's all. And they are dying also. And between birth and death there is disease and old age. So during birth one cannot understand, because there is unconscious stage. So even the fetus is killed, it cannot under..., because fully unconscious stage. And there is life undoubtedly; otherwise how the fetus all of a sudden gets life? But these mūḍhas cannot see it. Here in this matter there is no life; therefore many thousands of years, if you kill, it will never show any symptom of life. But if there is life, at a time it will come to consciousness. Just like fainted man is lying like a dead man, but he is not dead. There is life. It is fainted, unconscious state. So because there is life, he may lie down in that unconscious state for two, three hours; again he'll come. It is common sense. And if a log, wood log, is lying flat, will it come to life, anything? But because these mūḍhas, they are taking that "Fetus has no life. Kill it, finish it and eat it." It is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Wants to go against the current. That is their sporting. There is an example is given by Tulasī dāsa. Baijad gajarāja(?)(indistinct) A small fish, it will go against the current, and if you put one elephant, he cannot, he'll be washed away. Why the fish, the small fish can go against the current and the elephant is washed out? Because that fish is under the shelter of the ocean; the elephant is foreigner. This is example. So one who takes shelter of the Supreme, he can do anything. Otherwise he'll be washed away.

Hari-śauri: That's a good example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bhaijad gajarāja(?) (indistinct) Gajarāja means the king of elephants, he'll be washed away. But a small fish will go against the current.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...not a practical solution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the knowledge, real knowledge. Eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life, and the supreme father is supplying food to everyone. And each form millions, millions. You'll find millions of one type of fish within the water. And there are nine hundred thousand different forms of fishes. They are eating within this water. Who is supplying them food? We cannot imagine even what is the food there within the water. But there is. Otherwise, how they are living? They have no scarcity.

Hari-śauri: Neither there's any overpopulation either.

Prabhupāda: Neither. Overpopulation, the fish, they lay eggs hundreds and thousands at a time. You know that? There is not..., unlimited number of eggs they lay down. (break) ...say, "Your food is ready. Just little work." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Just produce food grain. Everyone will be happy. But why they are producing motorcars only?

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): You said that the different living entities in lower forms of life, they became those lower forms of life due to their work in the human form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. A criminal is freed, but if he again commits criminal..., criminality, then again he's put into the jail, like that. (inaudible) ...his freedom, now make your choice. But if you misuse it, then again go.... māyāprāpte nivartante mṛtyuḥ saṁsāra vartmani. (break) ...go home back to Godhead. But if we do not take the chance, and misuse it, like animals, then again we go down. The process is to go back to home, back to Godhead, eternal life, blissful life. And other process is the cycle of birth and death in different species of life. So this human form of body is to make choice whether to continue the cycle of birth and death in different species of life, or you want to go home, back to Godhead. (Sanskrit) He's Kṛṣṇa conscious when he goes back to home, back to Godhead. (inaudible) species of life, according to karma, they're going to be fish. From fish, by nature's way, leads to the plants, then insect. In this way.... Then birds, then beasts, again human being. Again another birth. In this way they are.... bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Similarly, after many, many births, when he comes to his senses.... "I have enjoyed very nice life. Now let me go back home..." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti... (BG 7.19). Kṛṣṇa says, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Such mahātmā, great soul, who has accepted that Kṛṣṇa is everything, he is very, very rarely found. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many, many millions.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they wear like a rubber suit. Something like the scales of a fish. It keeps them.... (laughing)

Devotee (2): Aldous Huxley liked to think of the idea that there's no controller, so that he could enjoy without the feeling of guilt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the whole idea. Thieves and rogues, they think "If there's no government, then we can do whatever we like." Who is there of the thieves and rogues?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They're going to become fish. Now they are being trained up how to become fish. So after this body is finished, they'll take a body of fish. When one becomes fish he doesn't know that this is punishment. He says that it is very nice. Concession by māyā, that he's put into suffering, but he'll think that "I am enjoying." This is mercy of māyā. (break)...anesthetic in surgical operation. Surgical operation, that is suffering, but if you apply some anesthetic, you do not perceive. It is like that.

Devotee (2): ...solution for this?

Prabhupāda: Sufficient chanting. That's all. Kirtanad eva kṛṣṇaśya mukta sanga param vrajet (SB 12.3.51).

Devotee (4): In the fish body will he have to suffer for all his other sinful activities also?

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of suffering, to become fish, and then millions and millions of years he has to evolve himself to different life.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmādya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras, and the less than śūdras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is a very simply fact. It you simply understand that one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, there it is stated that

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

Very simply thing. Just like the art of the material nature. Everything is coming out of the material nature, beginning from the grass to the highest intellectual human being or more than that. Wherefrom they are coming? From this material nature: ether, earth, water, fire. This element, some material nature. Let us see from the ground, the grass is coming, the vegetable is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, all the ants are coming, the germs are coming. Then, after eating that vegetable, the animals are coming. In this way everything is coming, generated from the earth, from the material nature. Is it not a fact?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: It has been given by Kṛṣṇa because he always wanted to catch fish.

Hari-śauri: They used to give us a simple example at school. They said that the people that lived in Mexico City...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we accept that. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). If, at the time of death, he thinks that "If I would have possessed a beak," then he gets the life. That's all. (laughter) That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And they always say that Jesus ate fish. They always use that as an argument.

Prabhupāda: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish, therefore I shall eat my son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: In Russia now they have declared one..., that it is a big crisis. Because their grains did not grow properly, they are not able to produce as much meat, so now one day a week everyone is forced to eat fish. So they are lamenting. They were describing how..., about the good old days were when you could go and buy an entire carcass.

Candanācārya: (break) ...country, build cities and then spend billions of dollars to make the city look like the country.

Prabhupāda: Carvita-carvaṇānām. Chewing the chewed, again and again. This is their position. (japa) (break)

Rāmeśvara: On the calendar it says it is Bhīma-ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Bhīma-ekādaśī, yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves. A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical. Bahiya jāya(?) gajarāja. Gajarāja means, gaja means elephant. In big waves, if you put an elephant, he'll be washed away. But a small fish, he'll go against the waves. He's expert. This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means āśraya. If one takes shelter of the supreme powerful, he also becomes powerful. The example is given, the small fish, it has no power, but because he has taken shelter of the water, it can go against big waves, whereas a big elephant, he'll be washed away, because he has not taken shelter.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Gopavṛndapāla: Even in this life they begin to take on the qualities of their next life. Like the surfers, they put on a black suit that is very smooth so that they can go through the waves very swiftly like the fish do. So they even look like the fish. And they shape their surfboard the same shape as the fish are.

Prabhupāda: They have to imitate. Otherwise, they cannot struggle. Just like they have made the 747 airship. But the shape is like a bird. You cannot make other shape. That you cannot do. If you make the shape of the 747 airplane like a man, it will finish. So you have to take knowledge from God's creation. You cannot create independently. That is not possible. Just like ships and boats, they are shaped like fish, the same shape; otherwise, you cannot run on water. That is not possible. The original design is made by God, and you have to follow.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You wanted this body. Therefore you have got this body. You wanted. Just like a child asks the father, "Give me this dress." Father gives him, "All right, take this dress." You wanted a certain type of body. Just like the surfers. They want a body like fish. Therefore they are so much anxious to swim. So father will give him next body a fish.

Rāmeśvara: He was saying that some people criticize us that we are saying this is God's creation, yet we are always speaking of it in a very bad way.

Prabhupāda: Very bad way?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it. Not only that, if he forgets that "I wanted the fish body, now how I have got it?" No, he forgets that he wanted it. So God reminds him that "You wanted this body; you have got this body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So God is very kind in all circumstances. Now we proposing to enjoy this material world under different situations, and God is helping us. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). You want to wander within this material world. That is your proposal. So, in order to enjoy this material world, you require different types of body. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet. It requires a different body. So yānti deva-vratā devān: (BG 9.25) this life, you aspire of going to the moon planet; next life, automatically you will go there. Why you are trying unnecessarily to go to the moon planet by sputnik? You'll go there. You just always think of the moon and you'll go to the moon. It is simple process. And by this way, you cannot go. Now, exactly in the same way that you get the body of a fish and you very easily, whole day and night, for so many years, you jump over in the sea.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So how the fishes are born in the water? How the other living entities, they remain in the air? Or without air? There are five elements: earth, water, fire, air.... Anywhere, the living entities can take birth. Sarva-ga. Sthāṇur sarva-gataḥ acalo 'yam. You read all these words of Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-ga. From anywhere, he can take birth.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āpana karama bhuñjāye śamana kahaye locana dāsa.

Dānavīr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when we're preaching to people that we don't eat meat, fish or egg, they say,"Why not eggs? They're not actually living. It's just a, it hasn't been fertilized."

Prabhupāda: Then that's a rascal. You explain it, explain to him that why they cannot make an egg by chemical composition and give for fermentation and a chicken may come. Why do they not do that? Why they are taking eggs from hens? Why do they not chemically manufacture egg?

Bharadvāja: Must have life.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. If that is a fact, that there is no life, then you prepare egg. What is there? Some white chemicals. A little yellow. You can do it.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He can come in any form He likes, not particularly as Lord Buddha. He's coming as fish, He's coming as tortoise, He's coming as boar, so why as Lord Buddha?

Madhusūdana: But you explain that Lord Buddha is not viṣṇu-tattva, but that He is śakty-āveśa-avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: He said that's all right, because the fish are happy.

Prabhupāda: And why did you not say that "I'll eat you"? (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: We told him it would take him one million years to get human birth again, and he was shocked.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What was that argument? (laughs)

Jayādvaita: He said that two fish are swimming in a tank, and one fish said to the other fish that there must be God because someone must be changing the water in the tank. So he was trying to ridicule that these fish are speculating something. But I just said to the students, "So this is a very good conversation. The fish is intelligent. There must be someone who is running the environment, nature." So he couldn't say anything against us, although he was trying to be a big atheist.

Prabhupāda: What was the point?

Jayādvaita: He was trying to show somehow that these foolish fish were speculating something just to make some story that would sound..., that this is a ridiculous thing to think. But it was a very sensible thing to think.

Prabhupāda: What is that sensible thing?

Jayādvaita: That the environment is being controlled by someone, not by us. So there is someone superior. So I just said that to his students, "So your professor is giving a good example."

Prabhupāda: In our favor.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. The fish may be swimming in the water, but a sensible fish must inquire that "Who has created this water?" He is enjoying in the water, or in the land, so the enquiry should be, "Who's land it is?" We are demarkating this land "mine," he has demarkated this land "mine," but originally, who is the owner of this land? Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. That is natural. And God said, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Somebody must be proprietor. I am proprietor of this land. Who is the proprietor of this water? That is natural question. If somebody is proprietor of this land, then somebody must be proprietor of that water.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: They simply eat meat, that's all. And some milk preparation.

Hari-śauri: They can't even do that now. Someone was saying that they restrict them now. One day a week they have to eat fish because there is not enough meat.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: So they force them to eat fish now. (laughs) It's very bad.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Mādhavānanda: Place there. Serve prasāda and preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you invite them: "Come in, take prasāda." So out of inquisitiveness, they may come, and give them prasāda, show them temple. In this way.... Show them our books. Simply put there signboard, "Please come in and take prasāda." (break) ...and read our books, like that. The bird took a fish in that way?

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians. All others are sinful (indistinct), that's all right, why don't you kill (indistinct). Several times these Christians (indistinct).

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: When we were in Los Angeles, Pālikā made some baṛā and it tasted... Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja wouldn't eat it. He said it tasted too much like fish.

Prabhupāda: With urad ḍāl, you can prepare fishy taste.

Hari-śauri: Someone told me that your Guru Mahārāja said that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyone who is not taking urad ḍāl, he must be taking fish silently, secretly.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You have not recited this verse already? Oh, yes. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttim, this is the... They do not know what to do, what to not do. Because they do not take any standard idea. They manufacture their own ideas.

Kulādri: In the Catholic Church, they used to have the doctrine, "No eating meat on Friday." Used to be standard, no meat-eating on Friday; they would only eat fish. Now within our lifetime they have changed it.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have changed so many things. When I was a young boy they..., you had to be in church on Sunday morning very early, otherwise it was noticed. Now you don't have to be till later on. There is no more austerity in religion.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if their standard is demoniac to begin with...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are selling churches. Nobody is attracted. In London city there are so many churches closed. Nobody goes.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The human being should exert the energy for that thing which he did not get in many, many lives. Many, many lives he had been in the form of dogs or demigods or cats, birds, beasts, many. There are 8,400,000. So this transmigration is going on, but in everywhere the business is sense gratification. The dog is busy for sense gratification. Where is food, where is shelter, where is woman or man, and where is defense. And the man is also doing the same business in different forms. So this is going on, life after life. Even in small insect, this is also trying for the same thing. Same struggle, ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. Bird, beast, animal, fish—everywhere the same struggle. Where is food, where is sex, and where is shelter, and how to defend. So śāstra says these things we have done in many, many lives past, and if we don't get out of this struggle for existence we'll have to do it again in many, many lives. So these things should be stopped.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: Even they're exporting beef from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can do anything, take the dead cows. I do not know if there is any chemical composition change. They are eating so many dead animals. Take for fish. The fish is never killed alive, because as soon as you take it out from water, it is dead, after few minutes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And they don't consider whether it's a young fish or an old fish.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: If that was the system, people will not get sick. They will not get sick from eating old animals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is all wrong conception.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract and the fish bit.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking.

Vipina: No one was taking it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our Detroit property is like that.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere; therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti loko mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That means you have to analyze different bodies. But that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which apartment is better than the other apartment, there is description. Just like a dog's body is so made that two furlongs away some newcomer is coming, immediately he will bark, he can immediately understand, perceive. He can smell that "Somebody is coming who is not known to me." Is it not? So he has got that special quality. Even in animals we will find. A fish in the water, two miles away there is some enemy, they can understand by touch.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: Like you have the example the tongue for the fish, an elephant, his genital, and you gave some other, these are there in the Bhāgavatam. The deer, the ear.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's due to the combination of the modes, as a result of the mixing of the three modes in different percentage. So we can even just mention like that in this,

Prabhupāda: That you can take from the authoritative statement you find.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they have all the bones.

Prabhupāda: No, they are describing maybe another animal. That is existing. That is Timiṅgila, they can swallow up big, big whale fishes. That big, bones, they are living still. Nothing is extinct. They are already there.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Because the real fact is they do not want to give up meat-eating and fish-eating. Therefore they like Vivekananda. That is the real reason. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, Vaiṣṇava, they have to give up so many things. That is the disease of the Bengalis. And Vivekananda is recognized only in Bengal. To some part, not all.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: I was wondering, perhaps these periods that they have here correspond with some of these floods, like this is between two Manus and there is a flood of the whole world, and that might pile up a huge layer of mud and rock. And I was thinking that might correspond with some of these layers here because they are filled with remains of fish that look as though they were buried, things like that.

Prabhupāda: That is also imagination. Again you are bringing imagination, speculation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it's very subtle and critical.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you bring your imaginations, they'll bring their own imagination. "Perhaps," "It may be," they say

Rūpānuga: Our imagination is as good as your imagination.

Prabhupāda: We are to take the Vedic injunction axiomatic.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: I'm talking of this Ramakrishna particularly. There is no śāstra siddha. Whimsical, sentiment, that's all. So far his yata mata tata pat is concerned, at last he proposed, "Now I shall worship according to the Muhammadan process. So I have to eat cow's flesh." So he was living in that temple... What is that temple in Calcutta? Daksinesvari. So the temple was owned by one big zamindar. So because it is temple, he cannot take... Of course, in that temple Kali was there. So they are taking fish and flesh. That was not objectionable. But he, when he wanted to take cow's flesh, so he wanted permission from proprietor, "Sir, I shall now practice according to Muhammadan system. So I take cow's flesh. So I want your permission." So he said, "Sir, I've given you so much licenses, but if you ask this, then I'll ask you to go out. I cannot give you this permission." Then he stopped Muhammadan way of worship. This is whimsical.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm? Christ ate meat? I don't think so.

Hari-śauri: They say fish.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: I have a different concept of (indistinct), if I may give: When I'll be half as good as Christ, maybe I can be permitted to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we are layman, and we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction that cow, milk is very important, we drink the cow's milk, therefore she is mother. So at least she should be saved from being killed. This is common sense. Apart from other big, big reasoning, we take it, Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya, so we take it. Besides that, so far vegetables are concerned, Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "If anyone offers Me even patram," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam,"I eat them." So we take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. So Kṛṣṇa says "You give Me these vegetables, plants." So we offer Him, and then we take. Besides that, everybody has to eat something. So generally, food grains, vegetables, they are recommended for eating purpose. And those who want to eat meat or fish, they can do so, but at least they can avoid the important life of cow. That is recommended. So far we are concerned, we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and this, there is no such thing as meat or fish, or egg, but we are living. Not that because we do not eat meat or fish, we are dying.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have seen it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows, this is a common thing in India. You'll see, the baka is going on. He's hoping, "This fish will drop and..." (laughter) Therefore they are baka. Bokā means rascal, bokā means rascal. In India we say any fool, bokā or baka.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And for manufacturing the paper they are cutting so many trees and committing sinful life.

Rāmeśvara: The scientists report that by throwing all this garbage in the ocean they kill many fish. Here in New York there is one beach called Coney Island, and no fish can live near the shore, they are all dying.

Prabhupāda: Why they are so sympathetic to the fish? Because they will eat it. No? They are thinking that "We shall eat the fish, and they are dying." Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Do you want your hat, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? No. This is ventilation. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Yes, when the ocean dried up, then they had to develop lungs to breathe. But there is a type of fish that walks. So they say that this fish gradually developed legs and lungs and everything.

Rādhāvallabha: The fish walks on his fins. They say after millions of years of walking on his fins, gradually the fins became legs.

Bali-mardana: It is African lung-fish. It lives in the mud.

Prabhupāda: And they do not speak anything about trees.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Is there fish here?

Hari-śauri: It's just the water moving, little waves, that's all. This is just a pond for sailing model boats, so I don't think there'd be any fish.

Devotee (1): There's fish in there.

Hari-śauri: Fish?

Devotee (1): Sure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fish eat up the algae, keep it clean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...skyscraper building, how many stories they can build? Is there any estimation?

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Because, just like anything, creation means the mother, the father and the children. That is our practical experience. Without mother, we are nowhere. We are given birth by the mother. So the material nature is the mother. From the material nature, material elements, everything is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, from the land the grass, the worms, and then human being, they are coming. From the air also living entities are coming. So therefore material nature is the mother, and we have come out of the material nature, therefore we are children. Then there must be father, because without father, simply mother cannot give birth. This is science. You cannot deny the existence of God simply by a false argument. This is real argument. The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is also dependent.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, but he thinks, "I can eat chicken or eggs or fish."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, that is dependent. Wherefrom the chicken comes?

Atreya Ṛṣi: From the fields.

Prabhupāda: Fields? No, it comes from the chicken.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: My sister, while she was married, her father-in-law's house, they were all eating fish. So a new girl, ten years, eleven years old. So she was given this foodstuff with fish and everything. So she was crying. So her mother-in-law, "Why you are crying?" "No, we do not touch all these things." She immediately arranged special cooking for her. So her husband and other members they were taking fish, but she never touched. She never touched. She does not know what is fish. If one wants to keep oneself pure, he or she can keep herself pure in any circumstances.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Rebirth means that... You are eternal. So by karma you are put into this material world. So it is a struggle. Just like a fish, somehow or other taken from the water and put onto the land. So he's all life struggling. So he has to be put again in the water. Then his life is perfect.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They got their own paddy from the field, milk, some vegetables. Those who are fish eaters, they have got small lake, fish. Whole family without any... "Where I shall get money?" "How shall I eat?" These things were absent. Even the poor man.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Set a fish?

Hari-śauri: Set a thief to catch a thief.

Prabhupāda: Thief, oh yes. You can reply him... (break) Those who are actually serious to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are welcome.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they are not hog. Just like Kṛṣṇa appears as hog, but that doesn't mean He's hog. Kṛṣṇa appears as fish. That does not mean He's fish. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: A local man cannot get. He's starving. And the man in big cities, he's doing nothing, he simply has got paper to sign and paper money he's attracting. All production. And they are starving. This is modern civilization. Everything, milk, vegetables, fish, everything, this chānā. Otherwise, within the village you can get everything. Village economy. Everything very cheap. And as soon as they got these transport facilities, the local men, they could not eat, and these lazy rascals, they are getting everything. Big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, they (have) millions of population. They are not producing anything. The producer is different man. They are simply artificially cheating them by paper money and they take. This is modern civilization.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Interviewer: But does that not mean because they are rich they can afford religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the... Because you are... We have already explained. You are a spiritual being. You cannot be satisfied with material atmosphere in any stage. Just like a fish is an animal of the water. If you bring the fish from water and keep on the land very comfortably, it cannot be comfortable. It is impossible. Similarly, we are all spiritual beings. Any amount of material comforts will never satisfy us, unless we come to the spiritual platform. That is the demand. So now they have satisfied their material demands, but the urge is there, "I want something more, to be happy." And that is spiritual.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Even they have, Indians those who are fish eaters, they keep this dry fish.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, dried fish.

Prabhupāda: They-fresh fish—they smear with turmeric and salt and keep it in the sunshine and they dry it. And of course this fish it has no, what is it taste. (laughter) But they keep it. (aside) Bring me little water. (Bengali and Hindi) This I want to introduce, let them be satisfied whatever they can produce themselves locally. What is that, little cloth, little food? Any man can produce these things. There is no difficulty at all. They must agree to this simple life.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And because we are trying to stop this thing in Europe and America there is agitation that "These people are propagating brainwash. How is that a man who will not eat, drink? This is brainwash." They spend ten rupees out of twenty rupees. Eh?

Vāsughoṣa: Yes, we were told like that, that they would take their twenty rupees pay and then they would go and spend ten rupees and on alcohol, drinking, toddy. (break) I was in... Last time at the festival in Māyāpur I was riding from Māyāpur to Calcutta. And so one man was saying that "Oh, fish, 80 paisa a kg. How much are potatoes?" I asked. So even their hard-earned money, so much more they spend just to eat meat, to enjoy their senses. It doesn't make sense in any way.

Prabhupāda: And that also, they cannot live on meat. They must have vegetable also. Without vegetable, simple meat-eating will not help them. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee (1): They maintain that from the oceans came one-celled animals. Then from these one-celled animals, they developed into fish and then reptiles. And then these reptiles became very big dinosaurs, and they have put together many big museums. For instance, in Washington the Smithsonian Museum has many, many big bones put together and they date these millions of years ago.

Prabhupāda: So we have got also the same theory. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. (break) ...within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means "the life which cannot move." So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for them? In Gujarat they are eating fish?

Indian man: No. Eggs. They have started eating two lakhs of eggs in Ahmedabad.

Indian man: Ahmedabad is a very big meat-eating center.

Prabhupāda: In Surat I was guest of that Jariwala. So on the morning walk I went to the riverside. So I saw so many fisherwoman carrying the big basket. So I asked the driver, he was Mohammedan, "Why these fisherwomen here?" He said, "Nowadays, all Gujaratis, they're eating fish."

Indian man: I tell you Prabhupāda... Very, very, old... Before 1937, in Bhavnagar, Saurastra, we had our office in '37, '35 we had. I was in Karachi. We sent one manager from Peshawar, twenty-year man. So he used to eat meat and fish and everything and a young man he was...

Prabhupāda: Punjabi.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bengali culture is fish-eating. Even brāhmaṇas eating.

Prabhupāda: No. They are eating fish only. Because Bengal is full of rivers. But not for all. Mass of people, that's a fact. But he introduced, "You can eat anything. It has nothing to do with religion." In Bengal in our childhood we have seen if anyone was habituated to take meat... Common man would not. Rich man. The rich men they have their sahis. Sahis you know, who takes care of the horse. So he would cook in the horse shed.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) Gujarat and Maharastra (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, no... These people who were eating meat, they knew that "I am doing wrong." But Vivekananda approved, "No, it is not wrong. It is wrong. Whatever you like you can do." Then they began to eat meat. Fish they were already eating. Meat and chicken and eggs and everything.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Less newspaper. (laughter) So why such milk should be taken, with newspaper?

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Muslim countries, the Muslims, they feed the cows fish, dried fish. And the Hindus will not take the local milk there.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Devotee (1): Because the Muslims are feeding the cows dried fish, and the milk is smelling like fish even. There's no grass for them to eat there in this Arabia, so they're feeding them dried fish, like in a soup. Hindus will not take the milk there even because of that.

Gurudāsa: So do you think I should organize this meeting with Chandra Swami also, taking some part in organizing? Or just meet him to get him to see you. Not any special, but I mean to say that he knows the situation. He can...

Prabhupāda: Or if he wants to see, he may come. He may find out.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: ...and God coming as a tortoise...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God.

Rāmeśvara: ...and a fish, half man, half lion.

Prabhupāda: That means God.

Rāmeśvara: He was criticizing that this is mythology.

Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is God. God can come as He likes. That is God. But you rascal, you do not know what is God; therefore you are restricting, "He cannot come in this way." That is your restriction. Why God should be restricted?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that He cannot come as fish, He cannot...?

Rāmeśvara: Because if He wanted us to believe in these things He would have told us on Mount Sinai, and He would have told us through Jesus Christ. Jesus said "I am the only way..."

Prabhupāda: But that I have already answered, that...

Rāmeśvara: Jesus Christ says, "I am the only way."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But Jesus Christ did not say to you because you are rascal. You cannot follow even his one instruction. That is the answer. It is not the foolishness of Jesus Christ. Because you are so rascal, you cannot understand it. Therefore he avoided you rascals. Because whatever he has said, you cannot follow. So what you will understand? Therefore he stopped speaking.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Defeat them. "God cannot came as fish." "Why? What kind of God He is? He likes, He can do. That is God."

Jagadīśa: When I heard the tape of this priest, this minister, and he was trying to cut down our religion, our movement, he was saying that "You believe that God came as a fish, as a tortoise, as a half lion, half man," it reminded me that whenever in the scriptures demons try to blaspheme-like Hiraṇyakṣa-tries to blaspheme against Lord Viṣṇu, Viśvanātha Cakravartī turns it around and makes it seem as if he's actually glorifying Him. You can't blaspheme Kṛṣṇa because whatever you say about Him is simply another glorification. They try to criticize, "Your God had sixteen thousand wives." Actually that's something wonderful. They just take it in the wrong way.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: It is contaminated for you, not for us. Why contaminated? So many people are taking. In Bengal, all villagers, they take bath in the pond, this tank. Large quantity, water, is not contaminated. A small quantity, water, is contaminated.

Abhirāma: Everything is there, the fish and this...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They get lobster locally or...

Rāmeśvara: They fish. The waters...

Gargamuni: They farm them. It's become like farming. They raise them in scientific way now.

Prabhupāda: Like they grow chicken.

Gargamuni: Yes. It's all scientific.

Rāmeśvara: And they sell all over America.

Gargamuni: They artificially fatten them up.

Prabhupāda: For fish-eater, lobster is very favorite.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Butter? But it has butter, fish.

Gargamuni: No, but they dip in butter. That's how my... They used to serve. My father, he used to take like that. And lemon, lemon juice. Also, Prabhupāda, when I was in Dacca... I think I told you that when I was there they were willing to sign over that land to our society. It's a very nice plot.

Prabhupāda: Gauḍīya Matha. Gauḍīya Matha.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): That is education, not propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these boys, they are advised to follow the regulative principle: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no fish, no egg, no onion. So many "no's."

Guest (2): That is also...

Guest (1): No, Guruji, you cannot take these persons who are by this strictness as your disciple only.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Crazy, yes. He does not know that it is his testicle. It will never drop, but he is thinking, "As soon as it... This is a fish. It will drop and big fish. (laughing) I shall eat it." Another nyāya is ajā-gala-stana. Those who have studied nyāya-śāstra... There are many such examples. Ajā-gala-stana. Sometimes a goat, they have got nipples.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Japan also, same thing like Bengal and Orissa. They take rice and fish. That is their staple.

Hari-śauri: In the West they regard rice as the poor man's food.

Prabhupāda: But Japanese are very intelligent, Bengalis are intelligent, by taking fish and rice. In Bengal ninety percent people, they take fish. Here also, Orissa, cent percent, even the Jagannātha pūjārīs. In Bihar also, fifty percent. The more you go towards Western part of India, you get more wealthy province, just like Uttar Pradesh, very wealthy province, enlightened. All the big cities are there: Allahabad, Kanpur, Agra, Lucknow. Every hundred miles you get a very nice city in UP, the best province in India. All the holy places-Vṛndāvana, Prayāga, Hardwar, Ayodhyā, many celebrated holy places. Ganges and Yamunā flowing, two sacred rivers. Both of them through in Uttar Pradesh. And all the cities are either on the bank of the Yamunā or Ganges. And that is the best province, state, in India. It has got fifty districts. And fifty districts means fifty towns. Little more or less important. But the Kanpur is the third important city in India. First Calcutta, Bombay, and next, Kanpur.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, cow flesh is strictly forbidden. But it doesn't mean that they are vegetarian. They eat fish and goat, lamb, sometimes buffalo. But not to touch the cow. From economic point of view, from vitamin point of view, cow should be given... Just like from the milk of cow we can prepare so many nice things.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: If he has taken sometimes fish, there was no way. What can be done? Not for his sense gratification.

Hari-śauri: Even that's not certain, that he took fish anyway.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes it is said.

Hari-śauri: Well, it mentions that they distributed foodstuffs to a lot of people, fish and bread, 'cause that's all that was available.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what can be done?

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then they have no intelligence. Mūḍha.

Acyutānanda: When we dig a hole here and there's water, within a few weeks there's fish and frogs. They say that is...

Prabhupāda: Jalaja. First jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Not only one variety, but nine lakhs of varieties they come out from the water.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So wherever we have got center in India, just like this Mahesh Pandit, if we supply them the chānā dāl and puri and halavā and nice, what is called, puṣpānna, his great-grandfather will come to eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. They'll give up all their fish-eating, that whole community.

Prabhupāda: So from this milk powder we can make this chānā and dahi, and ghee is there.

Bali-mardana: Chānā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheese.

Prabhupāda: Cheese. And you produce in the farm milk and utilize and give the cows protection.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is... That we do not know. Just like you take a fish from the water and put it on the land. It will never become happy. Again you throw him in the water, he will feel happy. So the living entity is different from prakṛti. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. These material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, these are gross and subtle material elements. And the living being, jīva-bhūta, is superior than the inferior material elements. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Parā-prakṛti, it is part and parcel of God. Unless we understand this fact, which is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, this material adjustment will never make us happy.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Direct proof. The other day somebody asked me... Perhaps you were present? No. Logically. The logical proof, common sense, anyone who has got common sense, the logical proof is there. Just like everything is growing from the earth. The earth is giving birth. Earth, water, air, fire. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Take, for example, water. You dig a pond, and after a few months there will be fishes. So wherefrom the fishes came? If you don't touch even, the fishes will come, and they will grow. So wherefrom the fish came? What is the answer?

Mādhava: The scientists' answer? Well, immediately they would not say evolution, because it takes many billions of years to say evolution.

Prabhupāda: Evolution..., apart from evolution, when I dig a pond, water comes out. You don't touch, after few days, after few months, there will be fishes.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Mādhava: From another fish.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the eggs came?

Mādhava: From another fish.

Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic. The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life. So how these rascals say that all of a sudden came another? What is that another? Answer it. What is that another? "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." (laughter) What is that another? That "another" is God. It is simple for us. We understand.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this should be stopped. These rascals, these fools, they are passing on as scientists and misleading others. That business should be stopped. Then they cannot answer wherefrom the fish came. What is the answer?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You ask him to answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For a meat-eater, onion is very sweet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For fish eater.

Prabhupāda: And fish eater.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fish, meats.

Prabhupāda: Actually, meat has no taste. The onion creates taste.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, they know... Mostly Hindus they do not eat. But they are accustomed now. Just like Bengal, fish eating is no offense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇa, gosāis, so-called gurus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When has this all begun, this fish-eating in Bengal? This was always going on?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Fish, ninety-nine percent people take fish in Bengal. Only few, they do not. When there is some, what is called, ceremony, fish must be there. (break) And fish is available. Now Bengal is divided. Otherwise, immense fish in Bengal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the east side of Bengal. And rice was coming from there too.

Prabhupāda: So their staple food is rice and fish.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pakistan was rich only on account of East Bengal. The pān. Practically it supplies pān to all over India. And betel nut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a place that we have not...

Prabhupāda: And milk also produced in very large quantity. East Bengal is rich in vegetables, milk, fish.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So they want to say like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Garuḍa eats timiṅgila fish as his diet.

Prabhupāda: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another. The Garuḍa bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life.

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Vṛndāvana also they do. These things are there, their business. And they smoke gāñ..., opium, gāñjā. Pān they are chewing, fish. "Tīrtha-guru." In Vṛndāvana the jāta-guru, caste gosvāmī, they do like that. He'll not touch his water even, and still, he is disciple.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This movement is so powerful, this message is so pure, that it seems that no matter how big the opposition is, still, it can conquer. We can be victorious. Arjuna was victorious. There's a wonderful statement in the beginning... You make this... It's stated in the Tenth Canto. Parīkṣit Mahārāja is appreciating Arjuna, and he's saying, "How, how could he defeat such gigantic...?" He's comparing to the ocean the battlefield. He says, "Bhīṣma, such a big fish..."

Prabhupāda: Timiṅgila.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: In the ocean there are fishes. You cannot see them. Big fishes: (makes gulping sound). From the skeleton I saw in Calcutta Museum...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whale skeleton?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whales.

Prabhupāda: Whale or some fish skeleton. As big as this room, it was hanging. I think it is there.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the height is at least three times the height of this room.

Prabhupāda: So they can swallow, big, big fish. There is immense space in the sea.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And cow's milk.

Jayapatākā: Oh, oh, no buffalo. Only cow's milk. And pure ghee there is six rupees per ser.

Prabhupāda: Those who are fish-eaters, they can eat sumptuously fish. There is no scarcity.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in (indistinct). These I have already written some years ago. This is my idea.

Yaśomatīnandana: "One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulative rainfalls. Rainfalls are not under the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rain, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulative rains from the horizon." (break)

Prabhupāda: So how things were explained? It has been explained by me before that. Why don't you take it? There is no need here.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.

Prabhupāda: All right. But outside they can do?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhramyādbhiḥ. There are different forms of bodies of jīva. That is also stated. Jalajā nava-lakṣānī sthavara lakṣa-vimśati. So first of all, general, from water. That you have got experience. Fish is coming. As soon as there is some reservoir of water, after some day mosquito will come, fish will come, many other bugs and germs will come, jalajā. And their number is also given, nava-lakṣānī. In this way, bhramyādbhir jīva-jāti, the soul, the living entity, is wandering, jīva-jātiṣu. Then he gets a human form of life.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Most of them, they eat, but there are... They do not eat... Not meat. Fish. Meat-eating was introduced by the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: British.

Prabhupāda: ...Britishers. Otherwise, nonvegetarian in India means up to fish. (pause) In Gujarat still you'll find. One young girl... You see here that all young girls are carrying water, collecting. In the morning collecting water, cleansing the house, utensils, clothes, taking bath, then cooking, those girls. Their first business. Man's business is to earn money, go to the market, the necessities. Woman's business is take care of household affairs, children, and they have got engagement. And in the presence of father or elder brother or husband, a woman has to earn livelihood—that's a great insult.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fish. Fish as well. Fish also like that. You haven't got to maintain. They'll grow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then, if you cut the chicken's throat, then one day you have to have your throat cut.

Prabhupāda: That is not in the lawbook.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not know whether it is stopped or not, but formerly. In Bangladesh, fish you can get very cheap. It is... It is water. You can... Rivers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many rivers.

Prabhupāda: And especially for (indistinct), the branch of Ganges, it is full of fish, hilsa fish, very famous. You know hilsa fish?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I've heard you talk about it previously.

Prabhupāda: It is full of oil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very palatable for the fish-eaters. Bengalis, they are too much fond of fish-eating. They don't even... Sometimes people say, "Fish-eating is nonvegetarian."

Prabhupāda: Non... Yes, "Fish is a vegetable, water vegetable."

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were present at that time?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not allow to cook fish, so the guests were given that vegetable cutlet. And they could not understand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were satisfied.

Prabhupāda: They said, "We could not understand that it is vegetable."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They must have been laughing.

Prabhupāda: Later on, after eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of them were fish-eaters.

Prabhupāda: Fish-eaters? Ninety-nine (percent).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Harikeśa's report was very encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fishlike.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not dressed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will be. That's just showing you the mūrtis. Here is Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya. Here is a full picture, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it will attract so many people.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But Kashmiri are meat-eaters, fish-eaters. Bengali are fish-eaters.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oriyas, fish-eaters. What about U.P.?

Prabhupāda: U.P., this ḍāl, cāpāṭi. They prepare first class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ḍāl and cāpāṭis.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable also.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And fish. They prepare varieties of preparation of fish. Māche jol, māche tal, māche dal, māchera dorma.(?) They kill this jhasere koi (?) and paste with mustard and fry it in oil. (Bengali)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: They know more of fish preparation and also vegetable. (Bengali)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda... (Bengali conversation) The real fact is that this jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life is food for another life. That is nature's way. But one has to pass through so many varieties of life, evolution. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. How many millions of years we'll take to evolve to become a human being. Then he gets chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Payeche mānava janma, mano rañjanam alpa.(?) Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Emona janma, this janma, manuṣya-janma. And if we miss and don't get Kṛṣṇa, again glide down. Mām aprāpya mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Again you fall down. I'll eat you; you eat me. And the aquatic, 900,000 species, varieties of life. The same struggle, one fish eating another fish. Struggle within the water. A small fish can understand three miles away a big fish is coming. It is all stated in the Bhāgavata. This struggle is going on. Then in the jungle animals. The man-eater trees are there in Africa. Trees, man, eat man.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they may become fish next life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you said that in a lecture in Hawaii in our temple. I remember. That really gave everybody a thought. Food for thought.

Prabhupāda: It is in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Floodwater entered our new house? No.

Bhavānanda: No. The lawn, the park in front of the temple, there was water. There were fish there, swimming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where? In that big maidan?

Bhavānanda: No. That was filled with fish. The water was not from the river as much as it was... It was from rainwater.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like the sea. Sea, and from within the sea an exhibition of life begins in the form of sea animals or fish or similar. Then life develops, evolves. Life... Sea does not generate life, but in the material world, life begins from water.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gaura-govinda: Meat, fish, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, you mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that.

Gaura-govinda: Many also take all sorts of intoxication and they also go to the prostitute. Everything they do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they serve the Deity? Śrīla Prabhupāda, does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.