Fallen (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"fallen" |"fallens"

Notes from the compiler: Vedabase query: "fallen" or "fallens" not "fallen soul*" not "fallen * soul*" not "fallen * * soul*" not "fallen down"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So we have got a plan beginning from this gate up to the Ganges. If we get land we can do that. (break) Foundation stone in Nellore can be transferred to Madras?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what I'm going to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Madras is far better place than Nellore. (break) ...if we take charity from such fallen woman, then we have to share his sinful activity. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should be careful from whom we accept charity?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But our Kṛṣṇa can eat even fire. If there is forest fire, Kṛṣṇa can eat. Unless He is able to eat others' sinful reaction, how He says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66)? He is capable; otherwise how He can say like that?

Śāstrījī: Sva-rakṣita rakṣati yo hi garbhe.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And therefore people are surprised that "How this man is doing like this?" They are surprised. Everyone is surprised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't imagine how fallen we were. I don't think they think it's really possible to reform so...

Prabhupāda: It is impossible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you have done the impossible.

Sudāmā: Therefore they think that we are hypnotized.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Where is discovering? It is covering.

Hṛdayānanda: They give the example that if a tree falls in the forest and there is no man there to hear it, then actually it has not fallen.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: This is a philosophical example which is... This is the most common example they give, that if a tree falls in the forest but there is no man there, there is no one there to hear it, then actually it has never happened. Unless someone perceives it, then it does not exist. So they feel that when they discover something, at that time it begins to exist by their becoming conscious of it.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: In the forest there are many animals, hundreds and thousands. They are conscious that tree has fallen. Then?

Hṛdayānanda: Then it would also be acceptable. As long as some living being has...

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Everywhere someone is conscious. There is no vacancy. So this is useless talking, fool's talk.

Hṛdayānanda: In the outer space there is no consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Who says? The fools say. There are consciousness. There are so many birds flying from one planet...

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who follows His instruction, he also perfect. That we are pushing (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything will be all right. Everyone is fallen, I asked this question to Kotofsky. "Sir, you have got a leader, we have got a leader, so where is the difference?" And then I said, "Only you have got a fool leader, we have got intelligent leader." Otherwise you cannot avoid leadership, authority. That is not possible.

Dayānanda: They want to avoid but they... Impersonalists are catering to that desire, they want to avoid authority and so the impersonalists are encouraging that. So they are rascals, the...

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: They have desire to read, but they have no opportunity. And then in their service, they become... They lose sight sometimes, where they, because of fallen condition, they cannot remember Kṛṣṇa in their service. But while reading, one can easily..., cannot help but remember Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: If he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa, he will sleep. That is the test. When you have seen so many reading but sleeping, that means there is no Kṛṣṇa. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra. Sleeping is māyā, so if he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be sleeping.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...country which is desert practically, but they are luxurious, they are rich. Wife. But they're devotees at the same time. In their country also, they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk, they prepare so many things, milk, ghee and then they get channa. So they know how to prepare so many things from channa, laddus. (break)

Indian devotee (1): Laḍḍu. (break)

Jayapataka: They're maintaining the rules.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All over India, they're not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kanpur, which is desert practically, but they're luxurious, they're rich, why... But they're devotees at the same time. In their country (indistinct), they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk they prepare so many, milk, ghee, and that, they get channa. But they know how to prepare so many things, channa, dudh. (break) Yes.

Devotee (2): They are maintaining the rules.

Prabhupāda: All over India, they are not so fallen as the kṣatriyas and brāhmaṇas. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is going on as education, as saintly person, priest. These things are going on in the name of religion, in the name of education. How much fallen this world is, just try to understand. As soon as they are caught up, they'll defend only by arguments, counter-arguments.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the purificatory process. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.... God is so kind. In this age.... It is meant for every age. Especially this age when we are so much fallen and so much suffering, and neither we are able to act very piously, therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if you chant, you gradually become purified. Then you come to your own consciousness.

Reporter (1): So how would you define sin? What is impurities or to sin?

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand impurities?

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, anyone. Anyone. It is open to everyone. So therefore we are trying to open centers, all parts of the world, to give them chance of sat-saṅga, so that gradually they will become perfect. And that is happening actually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said that you find out some first-class men. No. He said, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa. It is not necessary that you have to find out some qualified person. Anyone. Simply instruct him what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all. Yāre dekha tāre kaha. There is no question of selecting. Why selection? All are fallen. The so-called gentleman, he is also fallen.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, this is our regulative principle, that first of all you be trained up as brahmacārī. Then you be entered into family life. Then you retire from family life. Then you become a sannyāsī. This is a general procedure, not that you shall stick to one position. So a businessman does not mean he's fallen man. He can become first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Doug Warvick: And still be a businessman or...?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Just like Arjuna. He's a military man. That is also another business. He's military man. He knew how to fight. Similarly businessman's how to make trade. So this is different grades of livelihood. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not depend on this life or that life. Everyone can become.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Fell down. Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: One has to admit that he is fallen.

Prabhupāda: This is the land you wanted to purchase?

Devotee (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, it is still unsold?

Devotee (1): No one can do anything with it now.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, there is some pain. My teeth are now useless. So it is all rotten now. Sometimes it becomes acute. There is no strength in the teeth. Some of them, fifty percent, have already fallen. Therefore I cannot eat.

Jagadīśa: I think that a very nutritious diet can be made just from liquids.

Prabhupāda: Liquids, yes. Milk is the best food. Children, when there is no teeth, milk is the food. In Western country also, I think old men, they take milk and puffed rice. Is it?

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth-class of men.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Deliver them. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons—no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: The doubt when... The fallen yogi. "Who else can...? I think so.

Hari-śauri: I'll look it up in the...

Prabhupāda: In the, is the,... There is... What are you finding?

Hari-śauri: I'll look it up in the Sanskrit index.

Prabhupāda: What is the śloka? The śloka I do not remember exactly, but there is continuation. You read the whole thing. What is that chapter?

Hari-śauri: This is Chapter Two.

Prabhupāda: Begin it.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32).

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Modern yogic society. "Transcendental Meditation." Whatever nonsense they like, they do. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that yogis should sit down in a secluded, sacred place, and they are seeking after America's big, big cities. Hmm? They find out yogic class in America's big, big cities, hotels. This is their program. The prescription is that one should sit down in a solitary sacred place, alone, and these rascals are holding class. All smokers, drunkard, woman-hunters, (laughs) they are yogis. Hmm? What do you think? Is it all right? This is going on. And they are accepted, "Yogi this," "Yogi that." This is going on. In India they cannot find out because people are not so fool as yet that in big, big cities, in a big, big hotel, "yoga practice." India, although so fallen, they will not accept.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, iceberg. Throughout the whole year, every second coming. (break) ...trees have fallen are grown like that?

Vṛṣākapi: Old trees, Śrīla Prabhupāda, dead ones.

Prabhupāda: So the fall goes that side?

Rūpānuga: Yes. There's another place—I'm not exactly sure; I think it's down much further—where there's much bigger falls. This is just a small place. It's not the main falls. We can go there on another walk, I think, if you want to see the big falls.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So what is progress? In India still, in so fallen condition, we have got practical experience. If there is some arrangement... Sometimes we arrange Hare Kṛṣṇa festival. Each day not less than twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people come. Although these, mostly these foreigners, they are chanting, and we are speaking in English, still, to hear the kīrtana, they come from remote villages. In Calcutta I have seen. That is natural tendency of Indians. Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in India, naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means, they are being suppressed. Just like this Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have questioned that...

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what if, ah, for instance, I'm too fallen to closely follow the regulative principles and I find myself in that way...

Prabhupāda: Just explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Too fallen to follow the regulative principles is like saying a diseased man is too diseased to take medicine. So it's actually in our own self interest. We have to become enlightened, to understand what our real interest is. Yajña vai viṣṇu. Now we are thinking that our real interest is to gratify the senses. This is perishable. When we come to the understanding of ātmā, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then we understand that our real self interest is to follow these regulative principles.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you say in your books so many times that somehow or other we have fallen into this material world due to our enviousness or our independence.

Prabhupāda: Many, there are many reasons.

Devotee (4): I can't seem to get a grasp on this at all. If we in our original constitutional position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and in that position, that original position of full knowledge and full bliss and being in our eternal nature... Now I have some experience of how strong this material energy is and how māyā works somewhat, but if I had known this and had this full knowledge, then I would have had this knowledge of how māyā works and how I might fall.

Prabhupāda: You read the life of Jaya, Vijaya, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa? They were Kṛṣṇa's doorkeepers. How they fell down? Did you read it? Did you read the life of Hiraṇyakaśipu or Hiraṇyākṣa?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Purī?

Guest (4): Are these administrators fallen?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking why can't your disciples from the West in particular, who are low-class particular people, like the Mohammedans, as traditional, they are not allowed in the Jagannātha Purī temple.

Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They should not have done so. That is their, what is called? Sectarian prejudice.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll do, he's good worker, if you can train him, he's a good worker. He can do very nice. He has fallen in māyā, just take care of him, what can be done? He's good worker, very good worker. He can do intelligent service.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very intelligent, very high-class, nice devotee.

Prabhupāda: He knows accounting. There was no guide, he became alone...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's exactly what he said.

Prabhupāda: ...and became spoiled.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is not very good. That means they have fallen from their culture. They have lost their culture.

Indian man (1): Some of them in fact enjoy eating hot dogs and hamburgers. They said, "Oh, I have been eating vegetables for ages. Now I have come here to eat hot dogs and hamburgers." That is their comment. They have done totally,

Prabhupāda: What is this hot dog?

Hari-śauri: It's meat, sausage.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Ādi-keśava: It swings back and forth in the breeze, and all the windows fell out. When we were two years ago in Boston, every day we used to hear how more windows had fallen in, so they made it all with wood. So it was a huge skyscraper with wood in the windows instead of glass.

Bali-mardana: Still they are not utilizing it.

Ādi-keśava: No, it's still bent, it cracked open.

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars and they cannot use it.

Ādi-keśava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalk because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, in Indian family system, when the husband comes from office, the wife takes care immediately. Even in these days. That is, at least, a manifestation of faithfulness. (aside) No, don't bother. This has fallen.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So how to?

Hari-śauri: Requires some steps or something.

Bhagavān: You go on walk tonight?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That was my policy from the very beginning, that if the Americans accept, then my mission will be successful. And that is being done gradually, and I am insisting that, preach in America vigorously. If America accepts, then whole world will accept. That's a fact. Anywhere, although America may be fallen, the ideal is American, everywhere. Because they have got money. Kali-yuga means money. If you have got money, then you have got culture, you have got education, you have got everything. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, they were attached, family, aristocracy, culture, education. Nowadays there is no such thing. Get money and you get everything. It is not? Somehow or other, if you have got control over money then you have got everything. Bring that black Bhāgavatam. What is that sound coming? There is goat?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Haridāsa Ṭhākura is following all the principles, but he's always feeling so fallen. So Lord Caitanya tells him, "Put away your excess humility." Is this what He is trying to teach him? That we should have assurance?

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Fall or rise also. Why do you say fall? You can rise to the highest platform from the fallen condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That you are in a fallen condition, come to the highest platform and talk with God, play with God, dance with God. That is our opportunity. Now it is up to you to take it or not to take it. That is up to you. But our propaganda is this, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9)—this is our propaganda. We are trying to induce people to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then his life is successful. But if you don't try to understand, that is your business.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: By knowledge. Here is knowledge. You have not surrendered to God, you take the knowledge from God that "You surrender to Me." That is knowledge. Why don't you take it? Where is the question of ignorance? You may be in ignorance, but when the knowledge comes directly, that "You surrender to Me," then you can do it. Just like a man is fallen in a dark well. He's crying, "Save me, save me," and one man drops a rope, "Please catch it, I'll save you." If you don't catch, then whose fault it is? Kṛṣṇa comes directly, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8), and He says, "Do it." If you don't do it, then whose fault it is? It is your fault. You don't catch it. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the rope, catch it," then whose fault is it?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is limit. Once, twice, thrice. If you make four times, then it is extricated: "Get out rascal, cheating."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, aren't there fallen sinful people who are still...

Prabhupāda: Amongst fallen, sinful people, if you want to remain fallen, sinful, then who can help you? It is up to you. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And if you want to remain fallen, "No, I'll do it, go on," you remain. What is objection of Kṛṣṇa? Go on. You are suffering, go on suffering. I give you this suggestion, you do it. If you do it, you become free. But if you want to continue, continue, it is your business. Go on suffering.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, according to dental science, it has to be extracted. It is no other remedy. If you go to a dentist, immediately he will say, "Extract all this and have a new set, artificial." That is, I know that. But I don't want to extract. As far as possible, use them and let them fall out automatically, as they have already fallen out so many. Fifty percent already fallen out, and twenty-five percent are shaking, and still I am eating. Otherwise, according to the dental science, I should not eat any salt. In Bengal there is a word that when teeth is rot, then your eating is gone. You cannot digest, you cannot eat. It is not... If the foodstuff is not properly chewed, it causes digestive disturbance. And digestive disturbance means so many diseases. This coughing is due to digestive disturbance. I know that.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Hari-śauri: They must be just fallen.

Gargamuni: They have not accepted your mercy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll all benefit by the son's devotional service. It doesn't matter how fallen they are, you know.

Prabhupāda: My father never chastised me.

Hari-śauri: I think you said your mother was always very strict.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is special advantage of this age. People are very much fallen from spiritual standard, and to fall down from the spiritual standard means to spoil the humanity. There is no education on this point. That is Vedic culture. Most of them, they do not believe that there is soul, spirit soul, and human life is meant for understanding it and make progress on that platform. Most of them, they do not know. There is no education, I think so. Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā, mostly, but they do not understand the first lesson. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: So these things can be understood in the human form of life. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. If we want to educate the cats and dogs that "My dear dog, you are not this body. You are different from this body. You are spirit soul, Brahman," he has no capacity to understand. And a human being, however fallen he may be, if he is educated, he can understand about the position of spirit soul and how to become free from this material bondage. So in India we have got immense Vedic literature for understanding this business of the soul. And in human form of body, if we do not take care of the spiritual portion of our life, then we are making suicide. That is the proposal of all great personalities born in India, ācāryas like.... Recent.... Formerly, there were big, big ācāryas like Vyāsadeva and others. Devala. Many, many ācāryas.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Kṛṣṇa is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (said) pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, this is our movement. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. Our (indistinct) they asked that "Go, go," bhārata bhūmite, you have taken birth in India, that's alright, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakāra. Janma sārthaka kori koro para-upakāra. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission. And the best men of your country they are recommending.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you simply do this missionary work and say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme," then you become a great devotee. You become a guru. Why people do not do so? It is not very difficult task. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said that "By My order you become a guru." Indians especially are advised to become guru because Indians, however fallen they may be, they still have respect for Kṛṣṇa. Every home, they perform Kṛṣṇa's Janmāṣṭamī. So therefore Indians are fortunate. They recognize Kṛṣṇa. Now, to become little more advanced, let them act as Kṛṣṇa's servant. Kṛṣṇa came to speak this truth, that "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). He appeared to speak this philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: One is supreme and one is subordinate. Subordinate Brahman. You are Brahman, there is no doubt of it. But not that Para-brahman. If you are Para-brahman, then why you are making sādhana to become Para-brahman? Why? If you are Para-brahman, then you are Para-brahman always. Why you have fallen in this condition that you have to perform sādhana to become Para-brahman? That is foolishness. You are not Para-brahman. You are Brahman. You are gold, a small particle. But you cannot say that "I am gold mine." That you cannot do. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So he is checking if it is time to go on... Are you going to come with us also? Very good.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous. And if there is some force, you become suffocated. So still, people were going slowly. By grace of Kṛṣṇa nothing happened. But same thing happened later years when Jawaharlal Nehru was present. So many people crashed and fallen in the river Yamunā and died.

Hari-śauri: Drowned in the river.

Prabhupāda: The rush came, and there was no protection.

Hari-śauri: We'll have to be very careful if we go to bathe in the river.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This education is lacking throughout the whole world, and we have started this movement to give this education, and people are against. That means they have become so fallen that they cannot even take up right knowledge. The same proverb: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." So we have to struggle against this darkness, but we have to do it. This is our mission. We cannot stop it. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. People are kept in darkness, and... That is not Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Kṛṣṇa's mission actually. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "When people are misguided," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "at that time I come down."

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have admitted. But Christianity has fallen. Here is the real religious system.

Dr. Patel: They have fallen into the trap. They have forgotten Christ's teachings. (break) What about me... You'll get up on horse? That is enlightenment... (break)

Prabhupāda: Above your and our.

Dr. Patel: That's right. That is... All religious scriptures are above, undoubtedly.(?) It's meant for the humanity in general. And the Christianity is meant for humanity. Christ died for the humanity, not for a particular race... (break)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is the dangerous... And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kurukṣetra, "this body." Where is the chance of talking of "this body," the Kurukṣetra? Has he not?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where is the dictionary, "the body means Kurukṣetra, and Kurukṣetra means the body."

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Also Caitanya Mahāprabhu has decide..., that decidedly given His version, asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra: (CC Madhya 22.87) "A Vaiṣṇava, his first business is to give up the company of undesirable elements, asat." So who is undesirable element? Now, asat eka strī-saṅgī, who is attached with woman, and kṛṣṇa-abhakta. So as soon as you mix with these so-called bābājīs, bhajana, bhajanānandīs and mixes with three dozen women, you are fallen. Immediately. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. And regularly they are parakīyā-rasa. Their theory is that you have to select one woman who is not your bona fide wife, parakīyā. She must be other's wife or outsider. And with her you may do... You become Kṛṣṇa, and she becomes Rādhārāṇī. Then you become happy.

Train Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually yes. This society, modern, it is very painful to see even their face. They have fallen so much down that by seeing their face you become polluted. Last night they disturbed so much. And they are happy.

Hari-śauri: Actually they're not happy, but they make a show of happiness.

Prabhupāda: No, they think they're happy. They think they are very happy. They're enjoying life.

Satsvarūpa: But we have to take the risk to go and see their face, to preach to them.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they're falling down. There must be systematic. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Kṛṣṇa says. Bring that Bhagavad-gītā. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ?

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṇa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṇa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṇa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji or somebody." It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this machine, it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw. So our position is like that.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given so much nice thing in Australia, and they are doing killing business? Just see how much fallen.

Bhāgavata: The hive of the bee is still inside. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: They can eat so many nice things.

Trivikrama: Now you must get appetite, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. They have got so nice thing to eat, but they are making business by killing. How much insane. Killing is done by the uncivilized men when they are hungry. But when there are so many things to eat, why they should kill? And that is not for themselves. For others.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fallen Aryan culture.

Prabhupāda: Bas. They have fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you are raising them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: This center here is so wonderful, the prasādam hall and grass...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: Flowers. Everything is there. Fruits and buildings.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done? A man has fallen in the dark well, crying. You give him one rope: "Catch it." But he'll not catch. Then how you can deliver? Let him suffer. So he had asked him to go to the municipal...?

Girirāja: Yes, 3:30 on Monday. These M.P.'s are just here for a few days, and they have very busy schedule. So I have arranged for one man to come tomorrow. He can see you... (break)

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is good that so much rain has fallen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, because there was some scarcity of water just a few weeks ago, but now it is...

Prabhupāda: This is due to Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I remember Prabhupāda saying that if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, rain will fall.

Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also made about five devotees in Manipur. I was thinking of bringing in Bombay to get trained up so that I can take in south of Manipur.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have come. You are welcome here and take the blessings. But you won't come. When I say, "Come here and take the blessings," you won't come. What can I do? If one has fallen in the blind well—"Please get me up! Get me up!"—so I give him a rope: "Yes, catch it. I'll get you..." "No, no, I shall not catch." Without catching, there is no... So if you want to learn, come here. Stay. We shall teach you. That you won't do. Then how can I teach you? You learn from them. Just see these European and Americans, how they are... You have to learn from them by their behavior. These are American boys. Just see how they have tilaka, how they...

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: I am leaving on the 25th night. Then, on... I am reaching there 26th night. On the 27th I have to attend the marriage of my younger brother's son. That will take about two days, to 27th and 28th. And then, then, till about the 3rd I am busy in the sense that our president of Abhesivasana(?), he expired recently. So he left two sons. They... They just need my little guidances in such matters, the young boys. Not young. Pretty old, but yet, because they, being the sons of a yajnirdatta(?), did not much look up to the work, now suddenly the responsibility has fallen over their heads. So... But after the 3rd or 4th, I am free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good, gives a little time for preparing.

Mr. Dwivedi: The weather at our headquarters is always pleasant. Summer, very pleasant. You'll gain in weight.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world, immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is the... (Hindi) ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Where is the question of love? If you do not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, the question of loving Him does not arise. But here Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving directly love of Kṛṣṇa. That means Kṛṣṇa understanding is automatically—finished. Therefore He is addressed as the most magnanimous. So it is not at all seldom. As the age is fallen, the most magnanimous incarnation is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and He is giving directly Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-prema. You take it. Why don't you take it? It is not seldom. You do not like to take it. That is the disease. And that is aśraddadhāna. There is no śraddhā. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ, mām aprāpya (BG 9.3). How you can get Kṛṣṇa? There is no śraddhā. Therefore they must suffer in the cycle of birth and death. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra. So you voluntarily accept this cycle of birth; you don't accept Kṛṣṇa. Then who can help you? If you have decided to cut your own throat, how can I help you? You'll do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: It is our fault we won't take. A man has fallen in the blind well, and he's crying, "Save me! Save me!" and when somebody comes and gives him a rope—"You catch it. I shall lift you"—but he'll not touch it. Then who can save him? The rope is there, the man is there, and he is crying, but when we request that "You take it," he won't take. Aiye. So how he can be saved? And Kṛṣṇa said, mad-āśrayaḥ. But he'll not take mad-āśrayaḥ. He'll take āśraya of something else. This is the position. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. People are harassed to understand God, whether there is God or not God, who is God. When I first went to America, the theory was going that "God is dead."

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So this is direct process. Because Kali-yuga, they cannot actually undergo severe austerities, penances, vairāgya. Little difficult. Not difficult. Very difficult. But that is a special concession for this age. Because we are very fallen, we cannot undergo severe austerities, penances, yamena niyamena vā, brahmacarya. Very, very difficult. So Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, recommends that "Kali-yuga is full of faults." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan: "It is a ocean of fault. But there is one great opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Specially for this age. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param: (SB 12.3.51) "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa he can become liberated and go back to home, back to God..."

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practically... And I was surprised how such a abominable falldown came to Indira Gandhi. It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. No politician fallen in such a way in the history. Finished business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. They are "This party, that party, that..." But to curb down Indira's power, it was simply by Kṛṣṇa directly. Hm. Go on reading. (break) "Don't worry. I am here." This is Kṛṣṇa. A boy, ten years boy, Kṛṣṇa, He was, "Come on," challenging. This is Kṛṣṇa. Go on.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This shelter made for keeping always reference book... There is no book. Vṛndāvana. Just see. See. The shelter kept there, reference book. It is not there. Just see. What for we have got shelter? Shelf is there for keeping reference book. Somebody has taken away. That's all. This is our management(?). Very bad management. What can I do? This is our movement. We have to select men from the worst class. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo. (laughs) Nobody will come here after passing M.A., Ph.D. The most fallen we have to select.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is blind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially we are the most blind. Your vision is the most keen.

Śatadhanya: That is the feature of your particular mercy. You have taken the most blind, the most fallen, hopeless, and you are succeeding in guiding them.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya... (end)

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says the next country is Bulgaria. "So as to give the maximum number of people a chance to participate in Lord Caitanya's saṅkīrtana program, as we are so fallen and incompetent..."

Prabhupāda: The chanting, did they give?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bulgaria?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not yet. No devotees have ever entered. "As we are so fallen and incompetent, we beg that you will keep guiding us and allowing us to continue to serve you. We remain always desperately begging for your mercy. Your selfish servant, Ghanaśyāma dāsa, BBT Library Party."

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I have heard that still he is keeping, "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa," still, in this fallen condition. How (indistinct). Take this. (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. It is great ocean of such glory. Tad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Now it is again possible for us to think, to act. Our senses have regained their consciousness, enabling us to expand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by selling more..." (break) He says, "We pray that your health may continue for years to come so you may conquer the whole world by your pure devotion and you may continue to bless us more and more so that we may be instrumental in this work. I am your puppet.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Arjuna was a great, powerful devotee, and he could overcome the shock. But we are most fallen and cannot endure such a shock of having you leave us. We are already mortified by such a thought. Your movement is just now being accepted, and we want you to remain to lead all your devotees towards successful spiritual life. Despite our offenses, all of us deeply have great love for Your Divine Grace, and our world will become dark without your presence. Materially you have provided all of your devotees with everything: big temples, money, prestige, and honor, nice prasādam." (chuckles) That's not material. "But I would relish more being with you without all of these things..." He says, "But personally I would relish more being with you without all of these things, as we began at 26 Second Avenue. Simply hearing you chant and talk for hours is my only solace. I don't want anything else. We left all these material things to be with you only, so please have mercy with your devotees by allowing us to have your personal appearance as long as..."

Prabhupāda: He was from very beginning. Brahmānanda. He has worked very hard from the beginning.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Conscious that "I have been victimized by woman, a sannyāsī. So my career in this institution finished." He knows that. "Nobody will take me seriously." Therefore he left his daṇḍa, went away. Good son, another, but he cannot. Therefore several times I called him; he did not come, that "My career is finished." This consciousness, where you'll find? And here, even a man is fallen, he's also conscious, "How much I am fallen." (break) ...is that when a person is fallen, he is conscious that "I am fallen." (break) It was beaten. (pause) (break)

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scratch. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think that on behalf of Lord Kṛṣṇa you can take service from the whole world. At least, we all want to serve you so much. Next is a letter, telegram, rather, from... This one is from Berkeley temple, New Jagannātha Purī. It says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our fallen obeisances. Please excuse our offenses. By your potency, every single magazine is distributed this weekend. This weekend we distributed 4,888 big books and 15,063 magazines. We are praying for your health to improve. Your worthless servants at New Jagannātha Purī." It seems, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even in your illness you're increasing the preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Paramānanda has come to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right? You said to the devotees who came to came to see you from the Gauḍīya Maṭha, you said you were mahā-patita. But they said, "Mahā-patita-pāvana." We all appreciated that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I don't think that your Godbrothers really have any bad feelings. If, as you describe, because you had to preach amongst such fallen persons as us, the offense is really on our part, not on yours. I think actually they know that. Of course, they're a little sorry that they could not do what you did, but actually the offense is ours. We are not very trained up. It is not your fault. It is just that we are so fallen that we are only now beginning to learn a little etiquette. So sometimes, not purposely, but because we're very fallen, we sometimes make mistakes and offenses. And because we've taken shelter of Your Divine Grace, you are always giving us protection. (Yaśodā-nandana chants Brahma-saṁhitā) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they will appreciate tomorrow.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now I am fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now what?

Prabhupāda: Fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We couldn't hear what you were saying.

Prabhupāda: Falling down. Try pass urine. (break)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I am a fallen wretch, but I am hoping and praying to the best of my capacity that your health will improve." (break) Would you like Bharadvāja to sing a little?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can sing now. (break) The kavirāja will be coming back to take us there. Better that we follow his advice and let this medicine work a little while, see if you get some strength, and let him come and take us there as he promised he would do. There is no reason why we should jump ahead. As we have placed ourself under a competent kavirāja, better we take his advice as long as we don't find it to be harmful.

Prabhupāda: When we expect?

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is your great mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you are allowing us to do a little helping to you in your service to the previous ācāryas. We are completely fallen, without any spiritual credit, but still, you are allowing us to help you in a little way.

Jayapatākā: Without your intervention we would have no hope.

Prabhupāda: Where is Jayapatākā's mother?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is Jayapatākā's mother?

Jayapatākā: She's in California. Citsukhānanda Prabhu said that... (to Citsukhānanda:) You said you saw her in Los Angeles? She is coming to the temple? My mother? What is she doing?