Prabhupāda: This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select that: if anyone is serious to become God conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So that is very important in that sense. The next question is, "So, what is the significance..." I think I've already explained this. "Is there a probationary period for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or does one attain this enlightening according to his own rate of development?" Yes, everything requires little enthusiasm. Just like a boy is going to school with no enthusiasm, and a boy is going to school with nice enthusiasm. One boy is passing in the first class, first division and another boy is failing or he's passing in the third division. So the probation period, of course, I've already explained: to associate with us, the second stage. First stage is faith and respect, the second stage is association. That is probational period.
Fail (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"fail"
|"failed"
|"failing"
|"fails"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: First thing is memory is very short. We cannot remember. Life is very short. Life is short, at the same time, so much disturbed by anxiety, by disease, by natural disturbances. Roga-śokādibhiḥ. Short life; that is also disturbed by disease and lamentation. Every moment there is something for which you have to lament. "Oh!" Roga-śokādibhiḥ. And disease. This body is a breeding ground of all kinds of disease. Life is short and it is so much disturbed. So how it is possible to practice? Therefore, this one practice—chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and hearing—that is very nice. And praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Please give me strength." Hare, "O Energy of Kṛṣṇa, O Kṛṣṇa, I am fallen, I have no strength. Please accept me." That's all. "I have no qualification. I am frail. I am trying, but I am failing." All these appeals should be made. And Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful, He can do anything. Even we, we do not perform, trying our best, if we fail, Kṛṣṇa will help us. Just like a child tries his best, but he falls down. The mother takes up and, "All right. Come on. Walk." Like that.
Journalist: Let me ask you... I have my opinion, but I want to ask you. Why do you feel that the younger people today are turning more and more toward the eastern-oriented religions?
Prabhupāda: Because you have failed to give them satisfaction.
Journalist: You what?
Prabhupāda: You have failed to give them satisfaction. Your this materialistic way of life will no more satisfy them. There is a stage, in the beginning, when one is poverty-stricken, he may think that "Money and woman and good apartment, good car, can give me satisfaction." They are after this. But after enjoyment, they see "Oh, there is no satisfaction." Because matter cannot satisfy you. So your stage is, in America especially, you have got enough for enjoyment. You have got enough food, you have got enough woman, you have got enough wine, you have got enough house—everything enough. This shows that material advancement cannot give one satisfaction. The confusion and dissatisfaction is more in your country than in India which is said to be poverty-stricken. You see? But you'll find in India still, although they are poverty-stricken, because they are continuing that old culture, they are not disturbed.
Journalist: So I just follow up on this very briefly. In other words, you feel that the western-oriented church, whether it be a synagogue or a church, has failed to present... Would you say that it's message is not relevant or that they have failed to present their message properly?
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world.
Prabhupāda: Because I want to give this culture to the world, and my idea is that America is advanced country. If they accept it, then it will be possible to broadcast the idea throughout the whole world. That is my idea. But I am hopeful now because these educated young Americans, they are taking serious interest to this movement. And we are publishing papers, books, and they are writing very nicely. So I am old man, I may die, but I have implanted the idea. It will go on. It will go on, and they will be accepted. That experiment is done. If it is nicely propagated, then it will be accepted without any fail. And these boys who have come to me, they have taken seriously. So I am hopeful.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhāvasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and bite the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change. Only by spiritual understanding one can be...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): No, surrender means bhakti. One surrenders to...
Prabhupāda: No question of bhakti. That is the process. If you want to know about tat, then that is the process. You have to surrender. So long you will think that "I can think of, I have got power," you'll be failed.
Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.
Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?
Guest (1): Thinking means...
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.
Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.
Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): Many have...
Prabhupāda: No "many." This is the general process.
Guest (1): No, general process sometimes have failed.
Prabhupāda: No, why fail? The schools are going on. Colleges are going on.
Guest (1): Therefore they are fearing also...
Prabhupāda: Still, they are not closed.
Guest (1): Closed... Today they are coming to that.
Prabhupāda: That is another theory. But the process is, our Vedic process, tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to understand tat knowledge one must approach a spiritual master." Gacchet. If you don't accept these principles, then how you can make progress? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you don't accept this principle, there is no possibility. Then you can go on thinking in your own way. There is no question of going to anyone. You make yourself perfect by thinking, as many others are doing, speculating. That is possible but never to the perfectional point.
Prabhupāda: You cannot put a cart before a horse. That is not possible. Of course, the Communists, they are trying to do that, but they have also failed. I went to Moscow. They have got a worker class and they have got a manager class, manager class. They cannot do without it. It must be there. Someone must be their manager. So this division of the society... Just like natural division, one can study by his own body. This body has got four divisions—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. All of them are important in cooperation. But the hand cannot do the work of the leg, nor the leg can do the work of the head.
Prabhupāda: The same example: just like so-called scientists, Russian and American, for so many years they're trying to go to the moon planet, nearest planet. But here is no shelter. Actually, I do not know whether they have gone, but why they are coming back? Let them remain there, construct house there, there is everything. If there is no such possibility, why these rascals are going there? Practically, if it is full of dust only, why these rascals are going to see the dust every time? (laughter) Ask these rascals that "What benefit? You're spending so much money and going to the moon planet and touching, 'Now my flag is on the dust,' (laughter) and go back with little pebbles, 'Oh, we have gone.' " No. Moon-reaching day, holiday. Nixon, another rascal. Great rascal. Holiday. And what do you want there? Patanty adhaḥ. After so much endeavor, trying to go to the moon planet, they are failing. And what to speak of other planets? What to speak of the Brahmaloka, Tapaloka, Jana...? They are there. We are seeing every day, at night, there are so many. Who is going there? The nearest planet, which is about 200,000 miles, I think it is so, from here, the moon planet, and they cannot go. And what to speak of other planets? There are many. They do not..., cannot calculate how far they are, but we see every night there. So how imperfect knowledge they are. That is my point. And still they are going as scientists. Lokasya ajānataḥ. They are so fools and rascal, still they are passing on as scientists, big men, learned men. No. None of them. This is our challenge. None of them. And who is learned? Learned is Vyāsadeva. Learned is Kṛṣṇa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is not fault. Suppose you are trying to do something and due to your inexperience you sometimes fail, that is not fault. You are trying. There is a verse in Bhāgavata that a devotee is trying his best, but due to his incapability he sometimes fails. So Kṛṣṇa excuses. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). By, due to his bad habit, past, sometimes, not willingly, but due to his habit, habit is second nature, he does something nonsense. But that does not mean he is faulty. But he must repent for that, that "I have done this." And should try to avoid as far as possible. But habit is the second nature. Sometimes, in spite of our trying hard, the māyā is so strong, push me into pitfalls. That can be excused. Kṛṣṇa excuses. But those who are doing willingly something, that is not excused. On the strength that "I am a devotee, I am chanting. Therefore I may commit all this nonsense, it will be nullified." That is the greatest offense. (end)
Prabhupāda: That is a surprise.
Dr. Kapoor: This is bound to fail, she said. I say it will succeed just because of this. (laughter) The rules and regulations imposed upon them are like strong fences put around them to keep māyā away, you see?
Yamunā: They want relgiosity watered down.
Prabhupāda: Actually, because they are following strictly, māyā cannot touch them. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). Kṛṣṇa says vidhi. Bhakti-vidhi. Must be followed. (aside:) This is cut piece? Cut piece from the book cover? No. It is original photo?
Guru dāsa: A copy.
Prabhupāda: Copy.
Prabhupāda: Atonement.
Dr. Kapoor: Atonement. So I was made to undergo atonement, you see. (chuckles) I was coming to Mathurā. I had to drop down some (indistinct) at Mathurā, and I had a trunk and bedding with me. (break) (Hindi), a big volume, about one thousand pages, that he had given to me for revision. So that thing was there, there was one...
Prabhupāda: Bengali?
Dr. Kapoor: Hindi.
Prabhupāda: Hindi.
Dr. Kapoor: Hindi. One more manuscript. And, of course, there was some jewelry also because my son has been recently married, you see, and there was some jewelry also. That was not so material as this manuscript.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: So I went to the station master, he failed to do anything. Then I ran back to the train. (break) (end)
Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.
Viṣṇujana: They're not getting any young priests.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Viṣṇujana: They're not getting young priests. Only this movement is getting young priests.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very young. Just from the womb of the mother. (laughter) Yes?
Devotee: (indistinct) go Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The change is up to you; it is your choice. If everyone becomes God conscious, the world becomes the kingdom of God.
John Nordheimer: Many people have tried to change the world, but we see that they have failed. Many people have tried to see God, but they do not succeed.
Prabhupāda: That is because their purpose is not strong. That is due to māyā, forgetfulness. Just like darkness and light; if your light is strong, there is no darkness. But if you have no light, or if your light is not very strong, there is darkness. This is the principle: If you want to drive away darkness, you must bring light. That is the only medicine. You don't have to make a separate endeavor to drive away darkness. As soon as you bring light, darkness will go. The motto of our magazine Back To Godhead is: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience."
Prabhupāda: Similarly, these universes are coming from the breathing of the Maha-Visnu, and again it will wind up when it is inhaled. This is creation. So what they will understand? But we understand because we take the knowledge from experience. Here is experienced knowledge(?). They will simply bluff, "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall know." That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are always hoping against hope, then trying to do something every time.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even when experiments fail so many times, ten times, twenty times, still they are hoping, "Oh, this time I will get it." They do it.
Prabhupāda: Durāśayā. This is called durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Everything is explained. They are called durāśayā, hope against hope, but it will never be fulfilled.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of this development? It will be problem after all. What is the use of such knowledge?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They fail to see that point.
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They do not have clear eyesight, clear insight. They do not know whether they are degrading or developing. Just like the flies, with great force they will go into the fire. They think they are making progress, they are going to the light. They think; otherwise how they are going? Such kind of advancement. They are going to die, be annihilated, and they still, "Oh, we are going force, by force we are going to the light. Here is darkness, there is light." This is their philosophy. Just like a mad driver drinking drives recklessly to die, that's all. But he is thinking, "Oh, I am going with so much great speed." He does not know that he is going to die after few minutes. And that is their development.
Prabhupāda: Spinning wheel, they were spinning thread. Simple life and morality. No drinking of (indistinct) or tea, no smoking, and raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. This was his program. Hindu-Muslim unity. But all his programs failed. He died very dissatisfied.
Jayatīrtha: Why did they fail?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: Why was it the programs failed?
Prabhupāda: Because his disciples, they had a different program. They wanted politics like the Western countries. They did not want... Just like all the politicians, they do not want anything good for the people. They simply want to make some money for their (indistinct), that's all. This is the whole policy of the modern diplomats and politicians. They do not know, you go to hell. Other way, in your country you see so many young men are frustrated. So what government is doing actually? They are not serious. They have made this policy that catch them and send them, keep the Vietnam going on and kill them, all these useless boys should be killed. That is their policy.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some time. That is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā. The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Mogul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice. All right, go on, take... (end)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They have manufactured different types of religions (indistinct). All these Radhaswami, (indistinct), Jains, Sikhs, they have manufactured... (indistinct) And our Vedic regulations (indistinct) Just like such a great personality as Buddha, simply he said that I do not follow the Vedic principles. (indistinct) That Buddhism could not flourish, although Buddhism began from India. (indistinct) He started this Buddha but because he did... Simply he said that I do not accept your Vedas, immediately... Such a great personality (indistinct) So anyone who does not follow the śāstra, the essence of śāstra is (indistinct) So anyone who studies Bhagavad-gītā minutely, (indistinct). These European, American boys, because they're strictly following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct). Only thing is they're following (indistinct) śāstra. (indistinct) ...waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Simply wasting time. (indistinct) Prayer has failed all over the world because they are neglecting the (indistinct). Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold.
Prabhupāda: Real knowledge is to be given to the younger section. Older section, it is not possible. They will have to forget first of all, what they have learned. That they cannot. Therefore it is impossible. Therefore knowledge begins from the school children, not from the man who is going to die. (laughing) That is not... Impractical. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān: (SB 7.6.1) "Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very childhood." Not that at the time of death. That is not possible. Therefore our students, they are all young generation, they capture. These rascals, they cannot. Old fools, they cannot. There was a practical examination. One father and one daughter, both appeared for BA examination in India. The daughter passed and the father failed. It was in the newspaper. In old age they cannot take any lessons. They forget.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: So they sent it up and it failed. It cost two billion dollars or something, squandered.
Prabhupāda: Just see why they are wasting time in that way? Money.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: They were criticized in the paper.
Prabhupāda: Fool. Simply childish. Bālaka. What are they gaining? For the last, how many years they are trying? For going to the moon planet?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Russia started in 1957. First sputnik where Gagarin was there...
Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years. So they could not get anything, not a single farthing even. Still, they are doing. Just see, obstinacy. Punaḥ punaś carvita. This is called chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They will never be successful. So I am a layman. When I wrote that Easy Journey? In 1950, 67. How many years?
Karandhara: Six years.
Prabhupāda: That is warned by Śaṅkarācārya. Vivekananda lamented at the end of his life, that "I have simply wasted my life." He admitted, "I have not given anything." Bālakānām. He was after this body, and he was recorded, government record, as political sannyāsī. Yes. He had political purpose, but was acting as a sannyāsī. Just like Gandhi, "Saintly statesman." He is recorded, "Saintly statesman." He's a statesman, politician, but he was introducing some morality, non-violence, like that. Actually, his philosophy failed. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity, but it was divided. The Muslim and Hindu divided. He wanted non-violence. He died out of violence. Therefore all his philosophy failed. And Indian independence was achieved not by Gandhi's non-violence method but (by) Subhas Bose's violence method. And he wanted to explain nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Just see, another foolishness. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and he was screwing some meaning to prove his nonviolence.
Revatīnandana: It was when I went to school—I was a nice little boy—in school I failed out, only (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must take as intelligent. That so..., time was wasted. Our, this gurukula should be taken care of very nicely. So nice preachers may come out. Brāhmaṇa, nice brāhmaṇa.
- tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
- na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
- tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
- kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā
- (SB 1.5.18)
Revatīnandana: I'm still thinking about the other morning, we were talking about how everything is actually spirit. Everything is composed of spiritual atoms actually, souls. We were talking about the...
Prabhupāda: That is Vedic version, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.
Father Tanner: I don't know your disciples, but it is possible that some of them, even with twenty-four hour a day, you know, exercises...
Prabhupāda: Yes, our program is like that.
Father Tanner: ...fail to become spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Now, our program here is like that. We have got Deities, six times ārati. In preparation for that, cleansing the temple room, washing the dishes of the Deity, cooking for the Deity, arranging for the other things... So they are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we have got so many books. So they are reading books of Kṛṣṇa. This is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So... Or they are going to saṅkīrtana party. That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is a question of practice and practical understanding. A theoretically one cannot understand. But we have got twenty-four hours engagement for these boys. Not a single moment lost. In this way we train them.
Father Tanner: ...and at the end all spirits will refind themselves in the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: What...? Would you ever admit that a spirit could fail after his last chance...?
Prabhupāda: That misuse of little independence. That I have already told. He has got little independence. So so long he's engaged in the service of the Lord, he remains in a spiritual body along with the Lord.
Father Tanner: No, I'm saying is it possible for any spirit not ultimately, after his various transmigrations through bodies, is it possible for any spirit never to regain contact with the Lord?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes in contact with a servant of God, then he revives his old consciousness, original consciousness.
Prabhupāda: World will end. Yes.
Father Tanner: Yes. Now, I'm saying, when this time comes when all physical things end, will any of the spirits fail to reunite with the Godhead?
Prabhupāda: Now, when, as soon as he likes to reunite. That is... That depends on his liking and not liking.
Father Tanner: Hm. But would you admit that...
Prabhupāda: There is no... You are talking of mechanically. But I am talking of that little independence. As soon as the living entity desires to unite with the Supreme Lord, he can become.
Father Tanner: Yes, but will it ever...
Prabhupāda: And so long he does not desire, he'll have to continue this material existence. So that depends on him.
Popworth: I found this the other day, and you'll forgive me making this point, but when I was in discussion, it was impossible for me to make a point without being interrupted so frequently that I failed to make my point at all. Now, can I beg for courtesy for our guest to listen to what he has to say. Then answer him.
Revatīnandana: But... Just that this is interesting, that the solution is there...
Schumacher: But you haven't heard the problem yet.
Revatīnandana: But the problem is that people cannot understand the solution. They cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: But one thing...
Revatīnandana: Why they cannot understand?
Prabhupāda: Mister, yes... I forgot your name.
Popworth: John.
Acyutānanda: Yes, one girl, she is Hindu, but she is studying in a convent. And they were catching butterflies in the garden. So the head sister said, "No, don't harm them because they are God's creatures." So she said, "Well, why do you eat meat?" So the sister left, but she failed her. She failed her in her classes. She gave her a failing grade, because she spoke back to her.
Kīrtanānanda: It means they have no philosophy.
Prabhupāda: No philosophy. No authority, no philosophy.
Kīrtanānanda: If they say, "One living entity has soul and another living entity doesn't," what is the difference? What is the principle of movement, they don't know.
Prabhupāda: What is that idea? I do not follow.
Acyutānanda: The girl embarrassed the sister by saying that "You say that we shouldn't harm these insects, but you eat meat." So the sister didn't say anything, but on the girl's examinations and during her classes the sister gave her failing marks, in spite of her, to cut down her outspokenness.
Prabhupāda: Failing marks? Means less...?
Acyutānanda: Yes, she failed her in the class.
Kīrtanānanda: Because she asked, "Why do you eat meat?"
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Acyutānanda: She couldn't answer her philosophically, so she got back by failing her.
Prabhupāda: So there are so many members of the society against cruelty to animals. But they are all meat-eaters. Read something from Bhagavad-gītā and discuss. So in the Nepeansea Road, whether regular other things are going on or not? Or simply it is going out and coming and eating and sleeping?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we want to have morning class and Monday, Wednesday and Friday have evening program there, evening discourse.
Prabhupāda: Whether it is going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we just fixed up the place. The day you arrived was the first day it was painted. Until then, it was not fit for anyone to come in. It was very nasty.
Prabhupāda: But you are living since a long time there.
Prabhupāda: If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission.
Prabhupāda: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmīs, they'll not get that chance. That is explained. Read it.
Śyāmasundara: Like that man Patrick. Three businesses failed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my case also. Since my Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You do this." But I thought that "Let me become first of all rich man. Then I shall do," so He... Every business was...
Śyāmasundara: Maybe that is my case also.
Prabhupāda: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyāsa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is life cannot be proved by experiments. So it is not necessary to talk about life now.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that ultimately there may be no difference...
Prabhupāda: It is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda. Māyāvāda says brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This world is false.
Prabhupāda: Confusion is not... Chaotic condition, confusion is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip...? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca... They can say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Whowf! Whowf! Whowf! Whowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill." They're simply killing. Their only business is killing.
Bali Mardana: And divorce.
Prabhupāda: And divorce.
Bali Mardana: It says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."
Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.
Prajāpati: They think of it as actually a maturity. "We needed to talk about God when we were infants, and now we are advanced."
Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali Mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory. All the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the..."
Bali Mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.
Prabhupāda: The Deity worship program is meant for us to keep us safe. If we neglect Deity worship, we shall also fall. But that is not the all duty finished. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate. Arcā means Deity. If anyone is worshiping the Deity very nicely, but na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he does not know anything more, who is devotee, who is nondevotee, what is the duty to the world, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ, he is material devotee. He is material devotee. So we have to take the responsibility to understand who is actually a pure devotee and what is our duty to the people in general, and then you make advancement. Then you become madhyama-adhikārī. Madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. Just like these people, either in India or here, they remain simply churchianity, going to the church without any understanding. Therefore it is failing. It is now... Churches are being closed. Similarly, if you do not keep yourself fit to preach, then your temples will be all closed in due course of time. Without preaching, you'll not feel enthused to continue the temple worship. And without temple worship, you cannot keep yourself pure and clean. The two things must go on, parallel. Then there is success. In modern time, either Hindus, Muslim or Christian, because in these places there is no teaching of philosophy, therefore they are closing, either mosque or temple or church. They will close.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When the concept of chemical evolution, when this fails, then they have to accept that there is a Supreme Being. This will also fail.
Prabhupāda: No, this will fail. It is already failed. But because they are...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they are still hoping.
Prabhupāda: ...they are fools and rascals, they are still hoping against hope. That's it. It is already failed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are not fully convinced yet.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not intelligent. There is a Bengali word, dekhe sekhe teke seke. (?) Mean when one who is intelligent, he is seeing the things, he is understanding, "Oh, the consequence of such action is this." So... And another man is so fool. Unless he is actually in that position, he will not learn. One is learning by seeing only and another is learning by actually being in that position. So who is intelligent?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want things by experimental knowledge, and when they fail it, they say it is nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is voidism. First of all they try to enjoy. When they fail... The jackal in the orchard first of all tried to get the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get, then he said, "Oh it is sour. Don't require..." (laughter) They will say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This is all false. Let us go to Brahman." This is their philosophy. First of all they try as karmī, brmmmmmmm. (Prabhupāda makes loud car sound) (laughter) When all these brm brm brm, life after life, when he finds that there is nothing, "Oh, it is all false. Grapes are sour." Jackal jumping. There is need of God. You can write article.
Karandhara: Yes. There's a... They buy now. They buy the goods before they are even grown, from the commodity market.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they can pay in this paper, the bank will advance. So as soon as you... You have to introduce this metal coins, value. The whole cheating scheme will fail.
Jagajjīvana: In the past there was a lot of gold on the planet. What has happened to it? There used to be a lot of gold on the planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They used as utensil, as household pots. Just like now you are advanced, using plastic, because you have become very advanced. So you are using plastic. They were using gold.
Prabhupāda: So they have become. But when he becomes street dog? That means he has to depend on good master. Big apartment for dog means he belongs to the master. So he has to find out a good master. But if he fails to find out a good master, then he's street dog. Dog's life is good, provided he gets a good master. So therefore we have decided to become dog of Kṛṣṇa, (laughter) the best master. And the master says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I will give you protection." So why not become dog of Kṛṣṇa?
Prajāpati: He will be flea a on Kṛṣṇa's dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone will be fleas. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings, vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukura, boliyā jānaha more. "O Vaiṣṇava, please accept me as your dog." Because to become Kṛṣṇa's dog, one has to become the dog of a Vaiṣṇava. Then he will be admitted as Kṛṣṇa's dog. Vaiṣṇava ṭhākura, tomāra kukura, boliyā jānaha more.
Boy passer-by: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (yells out loudly)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Otherwise what is the use of introducing prayer again? They have experienced that this without prayer, things have failed. That's a fact. You take this point.
Umāpati: Yes. The schools are falling apart. Delinquency and there's lots of criminal activity amongst the children in school. And even the teachers are walking out of the classrooms because of the violence in the schools and the lack of communication with their students.
Prabhupāda: No, in India, in examination hall there is regularly police. Regularly. I have seen it. So what is the value of this education? There is regular police. Now there is no ordinary guard.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact some people get killed. During the examination hall, people get killed.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection. You'll fall down. You can cheat others that "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am..." What is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is call bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (brief japa chanting) Any questions?
Devotee (1): Yes, one more.
Guest: Is the exterior clothing important?
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Guest: Is the exterior identification important?
Prabhupāda: Yes, important. Just like officially the policeman must dress, but a policeman sometimes in ordinary cloth also, that's his duty. But that is special case. But external, external dress is also required. By... In the dress of a police if he is a thief, that is very dangerous. That is very dangerous. Just like this dress of sannyāsī, saffron cloth, one will respect that "Here is a sannyāsī." But if he is a thief in a dress of a sannyāsī, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. One must dress... (end)
Prabhupāda: So non-cooperate with them, they will fail. And that was successful. He started non-cooperation movement, that "Don't cooperate with these Britishers," and when they saw there is now full non-cooperation, they left voluntarily. It is not possible to bring so many administrators, military strength, men, men too. Actually the British empire was expanded through the help of Indians.
Gurudāsa: Yes, they did all the work.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gurudāsa: Actually if the British were more intelligent they could have continued.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Gurudāsa: Just like that mutiny. The grease was used in the guns, and the brāhmaṇas mutinied.
Prabhupāda: That is propaganda. Now, this is urine?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see nonsense.
Prabhupāda: ...gentlemen. Otherwise, how they could reign for eight hundred years? At that time Hindus were very strong. They were rigid. And there were many native princes. Still, they ruled over India for eight hundred years. As soon as the Aurangzeb showed his bigotry, it was failed. Muslim... As they're advertised, Muslims are not like that.
Dr. Patel: They were good to Bengal.
Mākhanalāl: They have very much reputation for violence...
Prabhupāda: No. In Vṛndāvana we have got. So all the Muslim emperors, they contributed.
Dr. Patel: But that way, in Vṛndāvana you have got some signs that some of the Arabs have become saints, Hindu saints. Two or three Arabs, they have got very big tombs there in Vṛndāvana. Arab saints. They came to Surat and then they, I mean... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...our calculation is if the Muslims were...
Dr. Patel: So bad as that.
Dr. Patel: And the widow with all her virtues.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...days greatest politician. Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. So our present head of the state is both woman and diplomat. That's all. (break)
Girirāja: "...pursuit of human culture are not possible. The government, by being weak and impotent, has thus failed to maintain the standard of civilized culture."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Simply rogues. They want money. That's all. They do not want anything.
Dr. Patel: I think Rāma-rājya was the real democracy.
Prabhupāda: Rāma-rājya was not democracy.
Dr. Patel: No, it was a sort of democracy because it happened that his wife, on seeing ordinary menials...
Prabhupāda: Why king should be under any criticism? (breaks) There is a jalebi seller. He is the medium of bribing police. He has got ten lakhs of rupees, ordinary jalebi seller.
Richard Webster: And Christians, how do you present this? Suppose if someone was a Christian.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Christian, if you take... Just like Lord Jesus Christ is a bona fide teacher, and he has given his teaching, his commandments. If you follow those commandments, then you are bona fide student. But if you don't follow then you are not bona fide.
Richard Webster: And if you try to follow but fail or if you...
Prabhupāda: No, you must follow. You cannot fail. Just like Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." You must follow that. If you do not follow, then you are not Christian. It is not the question of that you could not follow or you are weak to follow. You must follow.
Richard Webster: But the Christians have a thing about forgiveness of...
Prabhupāda: Whatever is there...
Richard Webster: Within the Christian religion there is a strong emphasis on possible failure and forgiveness.
Prabhupāda: No. Forgiveness is... I know that in church the confession program is there. Forgiveness... Suppose you are or I am an offender. I ask your forgiveness. So you can forgive me once, twice, thrice, not more than that. You cannot make it a profession that you go on committing sins and God will forgive you. No, that is not possible. That is misconception. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This sudurācāraḥ, means offender, that is not willful offense. One person is accustomed to some bad habits, but he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. But on account of strong habit, if he fails sometimes, that is excused, forgiveness, not that willful committing sin and ask for forgiveness. That is not allowed.
Prabhupāda: ...for B.A. examination. So the father failed, and the daughter passed. Yes, because the old man cannot take education. In Bhāgavata also it is recommended, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāga... (SB 7.6.1). Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be taught from the very beginning of life. The more younger, you capture it. Just like we were educated from the very birth by our father. The same thing, what I am doing now in larger scale, I did in my childhood, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and Ratha-yātrā, the same thing.
Nitāi: Would you like some refreshment, something to drink or eat?
Prabhupāda: Little fruit and a little this. (end)
Prabhupāda: Engineer. So the electricity is being generated. So behind this energy there is the living entity, engineer. Otherwise it is useless. No more energy. If you drive away that resident engineer, the electricity will fail. No more energy.
Robert Gouiran: I see that, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to understand like that. So behind this big machine which is generating electricity, there is a living being, who is pushing the button.
Robert Gouiran: Who organized it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without that, it is nothing.
Dr. Muncing: I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition.
Dr. Muncing: It wasn't the manufacturing aspect. It was the creative aspect that I was concerned with, that there is a creative faculty in man that can be used to benefit the rest of mankind. Isn't there a tendency...
Prabhupāda: Creative faculty... Therefore we first of all give stress, the creative faculty, that the watchmaker is doing nice work, but who has made that watchmaker? Who is that creative faculty? You are a scientist, you have good brain, but you cannot manufacture the brain. But who has manufactured your brain?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Very good. They will become devotee. Without any fail, they will become devotees. If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and worship tulasī leaf, they'll be liberated without any fail, and they will become devotee. (break) ...gradually appreciate. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: But the little boy, the three year old boy, he appreciates very much. He loves your books.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Yaśodānandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday on saṅkīrtana I was distributing a book to someone, and when he saw your picture he said, "Ah, yes, in 1966 I chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Yaśodānandana: And he took a book because he saw your picture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. 1966, I was chanting in San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he's seeking pleasure. That is the real aim. Therefore he's going into the water. He has no business to go to the water, but because he is seeking pleasure—"Let me see if there is some pleasure. Experiment." That's all. But he does not get... Just like they are going to the moon planet, moon planet: "Let us see." Because there is no ānanda, he is seeking another type of ānanda. And now they have failed. Now they're going to Venus or what?
Devotees: Mars.
Prabhupāda: Mars. This is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He's not seeking after where is eternal happiness. He's... Temporarily, he's seeking here, there. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. In this way his life is finished, seeking ānanda, and he gets another body, another term. So his intelligence is not coming to the point that "What is this ānanda? I am eternal. I am seeking eternal ānanda. Why this ānanda? Sometimes this body, sometimes this position, sometimes that position—what is this?" That is intelligence.
Professor: I understand it very well from the point of view of particular individual and ātman...
Prabhupāda: Individual, we are part and parcel. The same thing: the supreme eternal, and we, means subordinate eternal. We are of the same quality. Quality is the same but quantity different. Therefore our knowledge quantity and his knowledge quantity different. Therefore we should take knowledge from Him, who has large quantity of knowledge. We have got tiny quantity of... This is the difference.
Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then... That is recommended,
- utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt
- tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt
- sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge
- sadbhiḥ bhaktiḥ prasidhyati
These are the process. First of all the first process is utsāhaḥ, enthusiasm: "I must advance in spiritual life." That is required. And if you are failing enthusiasm, then in the beginning it is failure.
Indian man: No, but then our attention is towards that thing.
Prabhupāda: No, there no attention. You have failed. That is the proof that you had no attention.
Indian man: Yes, but then God should help us to keep us...
Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required.
Guest: They say powerful but what about...
Prabhupāda: Yes, then we have to know this powerful, not only the power. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). In another place, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā is power. Power is in... What kind of power? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. She can create, she can maintain and she can destroy, so powerful. But this power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva (Bs. 5.44), is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow. I am moving this hand; the shadow is moving. Shadow is not independently moving. Therefore this gigantic power, material energy, is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "under My superintendence." So we are allured with the power, but who is manipulating this power we do not know. That is God.
Guest: Well, sir, this is a point which I really fail to understand because...
Prabhupāda: But that is everyone's dilemma, that "What is this power?" The scientists, the (sic:) physists, they are seeing the power. The power is working and energy is working. But how it is working, that is further enquiry.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to convince them. (break) We may not keep the Christ in heart, but even you do not keep Christ by your dealings. You are simply disobeying the orders. Then how you can be a Christian?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Jesus says that in Matthew. He says that "Many will come to me and say, 'Lord, Lord,' that 'We cured the sick in your name, and we cast out demons in your name,' " and Jesus said that "When they come I will say, 'Get away from me. I know you not, for you failed to do the will of my Father.' " Even though they're claiming to be Christians.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: Many times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've heard you say, when speaking to people, that "You don't have to give up your faith. You can remain a Christian or you can remain a Mohammedan. Simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become purified." So the main point...
Prabhupāda: No, we say not only Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You chant the name of God. But if you have no name of God, then here is the name of God."
Prabhupāda: That's said. And that is much. These rascals are chewing the chewed. One thing one has chewed, and throwing it, and again another person trying to chew it—if there is any mellow, if there is any sweetness. This is going on. Just like our Indian leaders, they are going to chewing the chewed. They are seeing the effect of material civilization in the Western countries, and they are going to imitate it, thinking that they will be happy with that. They are giving up their own culture, and they are going to accept another culture which is already failed (?) andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).
- matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
- mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
- adānta gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
- punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
- (SB 7.5.30)
Adānta gobhir. Real disease is adānta go, uncontrolled senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram, entering into the darkest region of material existence. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, again and again, the same sense gratification.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You have to judge by the fruits.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician heal thyself." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greets someone.) You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of... That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.
Guest (3): Even in the Bhāgavatam you don't see the...
Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti.
Prabhupāda: They are trying. That is admitted. But, they are concluding that there is no operator. That is their foolishness, because they have failed to find out. They have to go further, further, and see, "Yes, there is operator." That is the final part of the... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām (BG 7.19). So after many, many births of sincere inquiry, when he is actually intelligent, he will see, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Here is Vasudeva. He is everything." That is stated. He'll enquire. Go on enquiring, life after life. And then he'll come to understand vāsudevaḥ-sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You did not read this verse? They will come, after much trouble, much enquiry, they will come to the same conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But they'll waste time. That's all. When we say, "Here is operator," they will not take. But they'll waste time, and life after life laboring, one day they will come.
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Why is it that some people, when they hear about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they take it, and some do not. And still, after that, some of those who take it, they stay, and some who take it take it for some time and then they fail?
Prabhupāda: That is fortunate and unfortunate. Just like one inherits father's property. Many millions of dollars, and he has become a poor man by his misusing the money. Like that. He is unfortunate. He got the money, but he could not utilize it.
Jayadharma: Does fortune mean it's the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is always there. It is your misuse of free will. You are given the opportunity—that is fortune. But you do not accept the fortune. That is your misfortune. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛita. Lord Caitanya said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). Kono—some fortunate man can accept it. Because mostly they are unfortunate. Just see, throughout the whole of Europe and America we are making propaganda. How many students have come? A very insignificant number, although they have come. They are fortunate.
Prabhupāda: That means you go to physician, "I want to do everything I like; still I want treatment." This is the position. You want...
Director: I didn't come for treatment. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, no, I say... (laughs) No, no, you have come for treatment here because you have failed to control the society, your activities; therefore you have come here, treatment. But when I prescribe medicine, you don't accept.
Director: I haven't come for treatment.
Prabhupāda: No... yes. Otherwise why you come?
Director: I was invited.
Prabhupāda: Just to help you in your social activities, social welfare activities. To take some suggestion from us. But when we give the suggestion, you reject it. That is your position. You have come here to take some suggestion so that you can make your activities very nice, but when we suggest you reject it.
Guest 3: I don't think it's necessary that it fails.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest 3: I don't think it's necessary that it fails. I don't... I think things are changing definitely throughout the world. It's a matter of which course they take.
Prabhupāda: No, what changing? They are preparing for war again. Where is changing? A slight provocation, there may be war.
Guest 1: Yes, but people are changing now. You're getting the young people who for the first time in years are becoming aware and are getting interested in things outside their own town, their own individual state or whatever it is they have. You have people, the young people now are getting interested in things like poverty, they're interested in Bangladesh and so on. This is good. But you nonetheless have a very large proportion of the people who have got that idea of, "I'm all right, and I'll look after mine without taking the overall picture into account." And I think that so long as you have different concepts, different beliefs, it's going to be very hard to get into what you're talking about.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be united first, that... First thing is that everyone should be convinced or understand clearly that everything belongs to God. But they have no conception of God even. That is the difficulty. The whole human society at the present moment, majority, they are Godless, especially the Communists. They don't acknowledge. The scientist, the philosopher, the scholars—all Godless. Scientists' special business is how to defy God. They say, "Science is everything. We can do everything by science." There is no need of God.
Śrutakīrti: So we are following Lord Caitanya's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I came to western country with no hope. I knew that my Godbrother, Bon Mahārāja, came, he failed. Then Gosvāmī Mahārāja was there, so many swamis and yogis came here, nobody could turn them. So I came here just with a purpose, "Let me try." But I was not hopeful at all. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is now successful.
Devotee (1): A great success.
Prabhupāda: And therefore let us try. And success, no success, depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Already I have noticed a difference with the new temple which has opened in Melbourne, with the group of adults that are coming around to become interested now because we have a permanent place here.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, we have got very nice house. (Prabhupāda gets out of car and is greeted by devotees) Thank you. (end)
Prabhupāda: Another foolish propaganda.
Bali-mardana: Now they have given up.
Prabhupāda: You see? They want to draw some salary, big salaries, by bluffing the government and the public. This is their business. They are failing. They have finished their business on this planet; now they are going another planet. These are nonsense. (break) They know that "We... So as far as possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this planet is finished. So let us go to another planet." This is going on.
Paramahaṁsa: Even if they wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop because they've already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahaṁsa: So by joining this movement we come to the platform where we can take birth in India in a nice brāhmaṇa family?
Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.
Prabhupāda: When they come first of all, you have to inform them that "We are working on the platform of the soul. What do you know about the soul?"
Harikeśa: This psychologist has become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He might have failed in his mental working in the mental plane. Then he has come. That is another thing.
Harikeśa: But still he wants to try and prove Kṛṣṇa consciousness through this psychological testing.
Prabhupāda: No, what he will prove, psychological...? Psychological means mental plane. How he will understand soul from the mental platform? That is not possible.
Bali-mardana: What they want to know is the effect of the, the effect on the mind of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. As soon as one is on the platform of the soul, the intelligence, mind, body, everything will be good.
Prabhupāda: ...do not study that why these devotees have given up intoxication, which the government failed to stop?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is practical.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, it's an easy enough thing to study.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Siddha-svarūpa: It's an easy thing to study, simple.
Prabhupāda: Why these devotee, they have given up intoxication? Apart from other items, the government, especially in U.S.A., they are spending millions of dollars to stop this intoxication, L.S.D. So why they have failed? And why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has become successful? What is the psychology?
Siddha-svarūpa: It seems that these people don't know how to be simple.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know that where is the defect. Defect is that everyone has got some attraction. Somebody has attraction for his personal self. Somebody has got attraction for wife, children, family, then attraction for society. In this way they talk of many things. They have come to attraction of humanity. They are all nonsense. The attraction is for sense gratification under different names only. My attraction for family is not for their benefit. By my sense gratification the family members help me, therefore I am attracted. The wife gives me pleasure; therefore I like wife. The wife also likes husband because husband gives pleasure. Otherwise, there is no attraction. As soon as the husband and wife fails to give pleasure, divorce. The son goes out. The daughter goes out. So everyone is prone to some attraction. So if you keep them in the material attraction, then you can change the name; the disease will continue. That is the difficulty. You can change the name from this ism to that ism but every ism is material. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti. That is also... "The mūḍhā, these rascal, they do not know mām, Me, Kṛṣṇa," param avyayam, "inexhaustible pleasure." Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure. In the Vṛndāvana there is sporting.
Prabhupāda: Now, why they are going to Venus? They have failed to achieve anything by going to the moon. Now why another attempt, to go to the Venus?
Dr. Judah: Well, the usual explanation that they have given, as I recall, is that these explorations give man more of a knowledge about how the world was created, our universe was created.
Prabhupāda: That is another speculation.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Bahulāśva: Why do they have to go to Venus, though, to figure that out? They have a planet here they can't get any information out of.
Prabhupāda: Why they are anxious to know how the world was created? It is already created. What is your credit? (break) ...and simply bluffing people, that's all. (break) It is already there. The nice creation is already there.
Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.
Prabhupāda: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?
Brahmānanda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahma. He is the most perfect person within this universe, Lord Brahma. So he is also receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Any conditioned soul, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, they are defective in four ways: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. They know that "I am imperfect." Just this Darwin. He knew that he is imperfect, and he cheated so many persons—by false theory, which he cannot explain. He simply gives, "Perhaps millions of years' gap...," this, that. That is not knowledge. So the imperfect person is prone to become a cheater. So we should not take knowledge from the cheaters. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The Satyabhāmā's father, he made a bet that "I have got these bulls, one dozen bull, very strong. And the boy who will be able to break the horns of these bulls, I will offer my daughter to him." So whole world will fail. You see, it is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa did it. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not that husband, that he would pick out some cheap girl and make her pregnant and go away. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: ...explain; therefore they bring this theory of chance. But we don't find any such chance in practical life. "There was a fool and he became high-court judge." Is there any? "There was a fool. He became a high-court judge." Is there any evidence like that? "There was ape. It became human, human being." I am simply surprised how this kind of argument is accepted by other fools.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you don't accept it, then they fail you in the examination.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you don't accept and repeat it, then you become failed in the examination. Then you can't get a diploma. Then you cannot get a good job. So they force you to repeat it. (break)
Prabhupāda: Field. All of a sudden it became by chance a garden and beautiful, everything.
Yogeśvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...
Yogeśvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brāhmaṇas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: That was not the fault of the
Prabhupāda: The argument of foolish man—who is caring? Vedic culture when finished?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years, how He accepted if it is finished? He is more than Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this rascal?
Yogeśvara: Haribol.
Prabhupāda: That he tried, and he failed.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ninety-four-year-old swami.
Prabhupāda: Gaṅgeśvarānanda.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Gaṅgeśvara. I've heard he likes us very much. Girirāja told me in Bombay that he likes us.
Prabhupāda: He is very favorable to our movement.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a Māyāvādī, but he seems to have a lot of followers amongst the Indians.
Brahmānanda: Damodar Chanrai follows him.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Damodar?
Brahmānanda: Damodar Chanrai from Nigeria.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: That frustration or that...
Prabhupāda: Well... Kṛṣṇa failed to give mercy, and what devotee will do? They are stubborn to stick to their principle. Kṛṣṇa said personally, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), but who is going to do that? And what the devotees will do?
Vāsughoṣa: If we just engage them in devotional service will they ultimately become purified?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Somehow or other go on repeatedly saying.
Vāsughoṣa: Because even that atheist hippie, when he was... after he was talking to me about the cigarettes, then the next morning I sold him a book, so he gave twenty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?
Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.
Prabhupāda: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this āśrama?"
Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.
Prabhupāda: He is well known.
Indian man (1): Including mother Desai and all, there were lot of complaints and countercomplaints.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It cannot be. You cannot stop the sex unless you are fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not possible. And that is the material bondage. In the material prisonhouse they have got so many means-big, big walls, handcuff, chain—but nature is so perfect that simply give you a beautiful woman, and you are all prisoner. Big wall, handcuff and chain—everything is complete. I think I have discussed in my recent purports.
Prabhupāda: One—there are so many cases. This Lilavati Munshi, this is the same thing. You know that? There is a big history behind this.
Kartikeya: The failures are due to some basic reason. All the big people have failed, and they have not been able to deliver the country or anything because their moral character...
Prabhupāda: No, no, even they have delivered the country, these physical elements you cannot avoid. You cannot avoid unless you are on the transcendental platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you are on the physical platform, you cannot avoid. It is impossible. (Hindi) Gandhiji... (Hindi)... mistake. (Hindi) "And physical? Oh, you have done this? Fifteen days fasting."
Prabhupāda: Just like later on, the Gandhi's disciples became more than Gandhi, more than Gandhi. That's all. Gandhi planned village organization, and Jawaharlal Nehru planned industrialization. And everything failed. There is no money, and he wanted to establish industry like America.
Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.
Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.
Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no other way.
Indian man (2): Gandhi was a politician.
Dr. Patel: He was not a politician. He was more a bhakta than a politician. He fell in politics. He was a saintly man turned into a politician. He was more a saintly man than a politician. He failed in politics. I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: No, he was studied by the governor of Bengal that "Either Gandhi is a saintly man amongst the politicians or he is a politician among the saintly persons." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: These people have not been able to understand Gandhi's intentions. It is the misfortune of this country they have not been able to carry out his message. Other people are able to carry out his messages. Other people of the world are able to understand him well, but we people are fools not to understand him. No. His socio-economic condition..., I mean, program. His program for lifting the society... You are religious head. He was a sort of a, another man, but in his own spirit he was doing a good work.
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that Bhagavad-gītā begins to distinguish the soul...
Dr. Patel: From the body.
Prabhupāda: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.
Prabhupāda: It must die. The scientists, they admit now, "What we shall do? We have bluffed in so many ways. Now what is the next bluffing?" Their bluff, last bluffing, was going to the moon planet, and everything is failed. Then what is next bluffing? That is their problem, how to keep their big, big post?
Harikeśa: There's nothing left to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have finished all their theories. Still, they could not do anything. This is their position. (break) Margarine is also another bluff. It is oil; it is taken as ghee, er, butter.
Harikeśa: They say it's very healthy for you.
Prabhupāda: They will say.
Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect.
Prabhupāda: By his action. (break) ...kasipu tried to make Prahlāda atheist. He failed. And Prahlāda tried to make his father theist. He failed. Don't you see?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So unless one agrees you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years'-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlāda remained Prahlāda, and Hiraṇyakaśipu remained Hiraṇyakaśipu. (break) ...can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.
Prabhupāda: And your big, big cities are full with hippies. You cannot induce them to give up their LSD, and you are making better men. Better men is going to become worse. Just see how cheating.
Harikeśa: Oh, you mean once we make the better men they'll just degrade again.
Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So by birth they want to make better men. They can't make them by culture.
Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...very nicely, without any fail. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām (SB 1.2.8). But if he does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then where is the profit? It is simply waste of time and energy. śrama eva hi kevalam. Anything, whatever it may be, it doesn't matter. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta... If he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he is guru. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. (Hindi)
Yaśomatīnandana: (break) ...people, they are nice pious people, and they have accepted some of these gymnastic people as their guru. So they say, "Oh, our guruji is here. We have to go see our guruji," this, that. So how should we speak to them or how should we preach to them?
Prabhupāda: That you cannot do immediately unless he understands your philosophy. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Unless they understand that this philosophy is better than that, how he can give it up?
Yaśomatīnandana: Sometimes they even say that "You have your guru and I have my guru. It's all the same thing."
Prabhupāda: Yes, and a thief has also a guru. Then that guru is also the same thing. (Hindi) Here guru means tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttaman (SB 11.3.21). (Hindi) Nāpnuvanti mahātmānam saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ.
Prabhupāda: This is śūdra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a śūdra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is your civilization. Immediately if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at all, and they'll die.
Prabhupāda: And experiment means, those who are making experiment, they do not know where is the perfect thing. The same example, that if you make experiment about understanding who is your father, it will all fail. How long you'll go on inquiring, ask any old man, "Sir, are you my father?" Or will this process be successful at any time? Without consulting your mother, if you simply go on asking all old men, "Sir, are you my father?" And if somebody falsely says, "Yes, I am your father," is that successful inquiry? This is going on.
Harikeśa: Well, it gives mental satisfaction, and that, that...
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Mental satisfaction. Just like a child. You can cheat him by mental satisfaction, giving him one lozenges and take from him hundred rupees note.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: How it can be done?
Jayapatāka: That he is failing to do, but he is thinking, anyway. He told me. So many taxes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Material conception.
Jayapatāka: Bribe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) We should return now.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jayapatāka: (break) ...from Vrndavana has composed some Sanskrit poems for Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Which Śāstrījī?
Jayapatāka: That you preached to last year at the festival time. There were seven śāstrīs, four of which came to Māyāpur, three of which blooped. One is still left. He is very eager to become initiated. He is very hard working and sincere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he do there?
Jayapatāka: He is teaching Sanskrit to the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God.
Prabhupāda: This is the real point. All other points besides this, they are Rāvaṇa's point. (Break) ...adjust things, taking Sītā from the clutches of one Rāvaṇa to the another Rāvaṇa. The material... At the present moment... Just like the Communist. They are trying to take away money from the capitalists. So this process is taking Sītā from clutches of Rāvaṇa, and it goes to another Rāvaṇa. Because both of them are Rāvaṇa, so there is no meaning to it. There will be no benefit. It has failed already. The Communist movement, it is simply now Lordism (?). Just like there are many rogues and dacoits. They plunder money and sometimes give to the poor. So this is another edition of the same thing, one Rāvaṇa to another Rāvaṇa. Just like Ramakrishna Mission-daridra-nārāyaṇa-theory only, and that is also not perfect. It cannot be perfect. Communist theory is to take the money from the capitalists and distribute it to the poor, to the mass people.
Prabhupāda: We have got good reputation all over the world. The German rascals, they wanted to minimize our value, but he failed, that police officer.
Haṁsadūta: If the government sanctions for acquiring this land, then we won't have any trouble in Hyderabad getting that land either.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Have to give it.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...take it rightly. Then we'll lay down the foundation. Something, anything.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)
Satsvarūpa: "It is a work to be treasured. The opportunity to receive the profound teachings of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the West has been made possible by the devoted labor of Śrīla Prabhupāda. The clarity and precision of his commentaries on the text have rarely been equaled. No one of whatever faith or philosophical persuasion who reads this book with an open mind can fail to be both moved and impressed. The spirit of its message shines brightly from the pages."
Rāmeśvara: Jaya!
Ghanaśyāma: And he's a psychologist. Usually psychologists, they're very much sort of against spiritual life. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this one here, this is one of the biggest linguistic schools in the world, and this gentleman was the chairman of the department, so he's known all over the world for his studies in different kinds of languages.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What does he say?
Satsvarūpa: "It is axiomatic that no book can be expected entirely to satisfy all its potential readers.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore you are rascal. You have tried already. Kṛṣṇa has given you chances. "You wanted to become this? All right, you become this. You wanted to become this? All right, you become this." So that you have tried, but you have failed, and still, "All right, go on."
Revatīnandana: "But I am a fool, so I will keep trying. I will not surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Jayatīrtha: They like to be a fool.
Prabhupāda: And...
Gurukṛpā: They say, "You Westerners have enjoyed the material life, and we have not. Therefore let us enjoy, and then we will become."
Prabhupāda: What is that enjoyment? Is that enjoyment? They are working so hard for ten rupees. Is that enjoyment? The enjoyment is "the future, future." "At night I shall go to my wife and enjoy"—that is enjoyment. But for that enjoyment he is working so hard. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is thinking, "I shall enjoy at night," and working hard. That's all. This is enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: The attitude, devotion, is there. Otherwise why one should come to our camp? But it must be properly utilized. It should not be misused. If you go to school and if you don't read books, you'll fail in the examination.
Guru dāsa: But the attitude of devotion should be there every moment, so everything...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru dāsa: ...is very meaningful. Everything is a big thing. When we go out we should realize we're doing it for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is said, man-manā. Think of Kṛṣṇa; He'll guide you. Very easy thing. Man-manā. Always think of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no question of falling down. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These four things, if strictly done, he is safe. He is safe. Always think of Kṛṣṇa, become His devotee, offer Him obeisances and.... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī, and worship Him. This is Deity worship. That will engage in always in thinking, in offering obeisances. And if we strictly follow only these, these four principles, mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te: "You are coming back to Me without any doubt." But instead of thinking Kṛṣṇa, we are thinking something else, planning something, misusing independence.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people that live in the cities think that the farmers work so hard.
Prabhupāda: And these rascals rise early in the morning and start their car to go to the office, five hours coming and going, and eight hours working there...
Lokanātha: Again in the evening they have to drive back. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...I saw that these big men, they were taking so many pep pills during the day to do their work, and in the evening they had to take tranquilizers to go to sleep.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen so, so many advertisements. One has to take at least five to six types of.
Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is bound to fail.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you voluntarily give, it will be failure. You will try to find out ways how you can take everything.... Just like income tax. The government is trying to take more money from the public, and public is hiding them in black market. This is going on. Nobody is.... Even your Nixon, he also hidden some money from the income tax. Why? He is the head of the government. So one side, he is head of the government, try to take money from the public, but he personally himself, he is hiding. Why this defect?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say that the system encourages man's greed, whereas their system...
Prabhupāda: No, no, system.... If the.... You cannot change the mind. If you have got mind to enjoy more, by force if I try to force you not to enjoy more, give to the state, this is a struggle. This is not perfect process.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That will make them failure.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Oh, yes, they will fail.
Prabhupāda: That will make them failure. Tell them, then this will make them failure. "If you are so foolish that you want to go above nature, then you are fool number one." Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is not possible. That is not possible. Then you are following wrong path. If you are imagining like that, that "We have surpassed the laws of nature," then you are fool number one.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that respect they are like the Americans and Russians. They think that we can overcome the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are just like the Americans and Russians in the same way. They are thinking we can overcome the stringent laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the foolishness. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). So long they will have this impression that they can overcome the laws of nature they will continue to become mūḍha.
Hari-sauri: Prabhupāda's point is that if you see fault with the method of implementing the spiritual master's instructions, you'll fail to follow the instructions.
Prabhupāda: No the point is not that they have not done any wrong. Don't think like that. But my point, that is, my instruction is sell books.
Bhūrijana: I understand. In other words if you think they're doing it wrong, you do it better. If you see the wrong thing... But do it. Make sure you do it, but do it without the wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhūrijana: I feel that this is...
Prabhupāda: Besides that, if you do not take to Deity worship, then you shall remain unclean. That's a fact. (end)
Prabhupāda: "You failed, my dear sir. I failed also. Come on."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a story, "The Emperor's Clothes," "The Emperor's New Clothes." There were these tailors, and they made believe that they were making clothes for the emperor, but actually they were doing nothing, but they were making the motions. So they, everybody was saying what nice clothes and finally...
Candanācārya: No, they said, any intelligent, only intelligent people will see the clothes.
Hṛdayānanda: And someone who's a fool, he cannot see it.
Rāmeśvara: Magic cloth.
Candanācārya: So they were getting much money for making nothing.
Hṛdayānanda: The emperor went out naked in the street, and everyone was afraid to admit that there was no clothes.
Rāmeśvara: Because they would be labeled fool. So finally one boy said, "But the emperor has no clothes."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a nice story in this connection. There was one Gopal Ban. So he was very cunning fellow. In the Muhammadan period in Bengal. So the Mohammedan Nawab asked him, "Gopal Ban, can you prepare a Mahābhārata in my name?" "Oh, yes!" So, "I'll engage so many paṇḍitas, and they will make a Mahābhārata, your activities, your glories, everything. So give me one hundred thousand rupees, just begin." He was taking money, taking money, "Yes, it is going on, going on."
Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night.
Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed. Gandhi tried to adjust this injustice, but he failed. Then with determination he went to India, that "I must drive away the Englishmen." These South African white men, mostly they are Englishmen and Dutchmen. Originally, they were Englishmen and Dutchmen.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you see with your eyes, and then you see with microscope, then you see with telescope, different processes. Yes. But you see with your spiritual eyes, that is perfect.
Richard: Now suppose the brain dies, as in the case...
Prabhupāda: Brain dies.... Brain is part of the body.
Richard: Right, it's a part of the body. It can fail just as the heart or the lungs or anything else. Now suppose the brain dies, the soul...
Prabhupāda: You get another brain.
Richard: Pardon me?
Prabhupāda: You get another brain. Suppose, just like you are working with the glass, spectacle, it breaks, you get another spectacle. That's all.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There are machines that are maintaining her life.
Rāmeśvara: Just like a person in a car, the car engine may fail and the person may get out of the car or he may linger in the car. The car is just a machine. So the soul is lingering in her body. Even though it is...
Richard: But it's still very active.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, just like if my car breaks down, that does not mean I have broken down. I'm the passenger.
Richard: Can't she be in touch with her soul in a coma?
Hari-śauri: She is soul.
Devotee: She is soul.
Hari-śauri: That personality, that is the soul.
Rāmeśvara: No, when the machine, when the conscious, when the body is broken like that, she cannot become self-realized.
Rādhāvallabha: She's active on the mental platform.
Prabhupāda: She's covered with the body, but she's different from the body. Just like you are covered by your dress, but you are different from the dress.
Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.
Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically.
Jayādvaita: We got a phone call today from someone in Kalamazoo-it's many hours away. And he met some devotee in a store who was there for purchasing something, and just by talking for a few minutes he decided that he wanted to come here and see you in Detroit. So he was calling on the phone, when would you be here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If we get this land we can cultivate some grains, foodstuff. On account of this water facility you can grow so many things, vegetables, fruits, foodgrains, very nice. Keep cows. (break) Industrial civilization will fail. They are manufacturing simply cars. The time is approaching very swiftly when there will be no more demand for cars.
Mādhavānanda: Already it's failing. They are making so many cars now, and people aren't purchasing. In the newspaper, you see big pictures of huge miles of lots of unsold cars. The whole motorcar business, industry, is going down.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have another trick. Now they make them very cheap so the cars will break down every year.
Prabhupāda: But if I don't want it, either cheap or dear, who cares for it? If I don't want that. There was a statement by some Pope that "If the crown of England is offered to me at very cheap price, so why shall I accept it? What shall I do with it?" That is the..., that if I don't want a car.... Suppose if we advance our farming program, who will want the car? Theoretically, accept it, that we shall remain in the farm.
Prabhupāda: So we thought that we shall use it as temple. That they disagreed. "No, you cannot keep it, you have to break it, then we can sell to you." Then why shall I break it? We shall pay for it and break it? No. Then the negotiation failed. But a huge land, and we are prepared to purchase. In England, in London, I was..., one, two churches I was negotiating, and one church, that man, he said, "I'll burn into ashes. I'll not sell it to Bhaktivedanta." (laughs) Recently we wanted to purchase in St. James Park one nice house. So they did not give us. They..., we offered better price; still they did not give us.
Hari-śauri: (laughs) He was becoming very enthusiastic. He was very enlivened. Anyone with a little intelligence, as soon as you begin to speak to them, they, immediately, they become so much enlivened. He's obviously, he's had some idea about organization and whatever, but he's never seen it practiced. And now he's come here and seen it practical.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practical training. That is wanted. Simply theoretical knowledge.... That is helpful, but training, that is the greatest need, that we have to create a set of first-class men. Then the world will be all right. That is an attempt of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make first class, ideal. Why they'll be attracted? They are seeing that "The priests are doing the same thing as we are doing." So how they will be attracted? Therefore Christianity is failing. They are also having the meat, illicit sex, drunkard, and they're priest.
Hari-śauri: They've watered down so much, there's no value left to what they're doing. They're exactly the same as a man in the street, except he says he believes in God and the man on the street says he doesn't believe. And they have no ability to convince a man that God exists. They have no scientific knowledge or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Simply by the position: "I am Cardinal," "I am Pope," "I am priest," "I am that." How long it will go on?
Hari-śauri: It's not going on very much longer anyway, there's so many, it's falling apart.
Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating. What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."
Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He said something to the effect that "I don't know what this life was about. I think I've made a mistake." Just at the end.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it was mistake.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Everyone is envious of such persons, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They think that "Yes, he could not enjoy his wealth, but if I had that wealth I would enjoy it." But then if they get it, then they also fail.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Next, what is next?
Hari-śauri: Half past eight.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Should we take your leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection to sit down here. If you want to stop, we can stop, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And the fools are paying for that.
Rādhāvallabha: Yes, millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: Just see. One attempt has already failed; again they are making attempt and spending like any...
Rādhāvallabha: Isn't it impossible for them to reach Mars because it is a hellish planet?
Prabhupāda: Who says it is hellish planet?
Rādhāvallabha: In Bhāgavatam. It is described as inauspicious in Third Canto in the story of Varāha.
Prabhupāda: Maybe. So first of all let them go. They cannot go. According to our calculation, Vedic calculation, the moon is above sun planet, and the Mars is above moon planet.
Rādhāvallabha: They never take into any consideration there can be another form of life other than that which they know.
Prabhupāda: No, they are speculating. But why people are victimized by this speculation? That is the...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the amazing thing.
Prabhupāda: They have already failed in one speculation. They went to moon planet with some speculation. That has failed. Why they are given chance, another speculation?
Rādhāvallabha: Everyone believes that they went.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rādhāvallabha: Everyone believes that they went.
Prabhupāda: They went, but what is the benefit? What for they went?
Rādhāvallabha: For scientific exploration. They consider that very noble.
Prabhupāda: Scientific exploration at the expense of these taxpayer?
Rādhāvallabha: They consider it a very noble cause to increase knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That... The same story, that some frogs were there, and children was throwing stone. Then the frogs appealed, "Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?" "No, we are playing." "So what is play for you, it is death to us." So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on. We are playing, making some scientific research, and who will pay for that? You. You work hard in the factory and pay tax. This is civilization. "You pay tax, and we spend it as we like." Frivolity(?). This is going on. This is the government of Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: "What is play to you is death to us." And "Never mind. You die. We play." They have already spent so much money, moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock, satisfied. Again the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?
Rādhāvallabha: In Los Angeles papers they quoted you saying that, that they didn't go to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: They quoted you as saying this in Los Angeles, in a newspaper. Also your Monday-Tuesday example, Sunday-Monday. They put that in the newspaper.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer that. The common sense. Can any one of you answer why Sunday first and Monday next? You are one of the scientists. Why don't you say? It is commonsense question, "Why Sunday first and next...?" All over the world. In the human society, everywhere you go, they will say Sunday first, Monday second. In India Ravivāra. Ravi. Ravi means sun. And Somavāra. Somavāra means Monday. The planetary system is so arranged, first of all sun, then moon. Then Mars, then Saturn, Saturday. Saturn is last. Even Svarūpa Dāmodara has not answered.
Rādhāvallabha: Seventh Canto? (break) (discussion as devotees try—and fail—to find line)
Prabhupāda: There is no "modeta"?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it might be the second or fourth line.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is fourth line. Give it to me. Where is spectacle? Oh, you have gone so far. Here it is. (laughter) Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā.
Rādhāvallabha: It appeared, and you didn't even look. Remarkable.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question is, now we want to argue that how is it possible, now you are claiming that life is coming from molecules? If you claim like that, then how is it possible that in the same species, let's say in the birds, that these qualities are spreading? Some birds we see behave like a little influenced by the modes of goodness, though it is mixed. Like swan, we are taking that example. But some are like eagle, very passionate, wants to kill small birds as their food, and on the other hand, birds like crows, they like just to be completely ignorant, or they like to survive in a dirty environment. Why? Is this possible just from the concept of molecular evolution? It's completely, it's failing. They have no explanation along those terms. So we thought to bring up these points, it will be very clear that this evolution is completely wrong. So we want to use that...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone.
Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect. If we study Brahmā's day, it will be all... Brahmā's day is, one day equal to forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by thousand, that is Brahmā's one day. So thirty days, one month, and twelve months equal to year, such hundred years. Your mathematics will fail to figure out. Is it not? (laughter)
Rūpānuga: There is a slide of this, but we did not show you. The idea is that this is the beginning of Brahmā's day up to present, Vaivasvata Manu. This is the beginning of time according to them. They can't explain anything up to here. They say here, in the middle of the day of Raivata Manu, they begin their Cambrian Age.
Prabhupāda: No, why Raivata Manu? They are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to study, that, this.... At the present moment people are so dull-headed, they are not taking the important point, that this body, one minute ago it was so important, and now it has no value. If you kick on his face, nobody will say. But they have no brain to understand what is that thing missing, that it has become so unimportant that within a minute.... They have no brain. The so-called scientists, philosophers, all dull-headed. It is very abominable condition of society. There is no man who is real brain.
Mike Robinson: Are you, sir, writing off all scientists because they've failed to understand the spiritual dimension in life?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, it is scientific, everything scientific. Science means knowledge, full knowledge.
Mike Robinson: But you were a chemist yourself, were you not, in secular life before you took up the position you have...?
Prabhupāda: It doesn't require to become a very big chemist. Any common sense man can do it. Of course, I was chemist in my previous life.
Hari-śauri: The reason why the Russians were buying wheat from America...
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Hari-śauri: ...was because they had no rain. All their crops failed.
Jayatīrtha: Not only that, people aren't inclined to work very hard. The farmers are not very enthusiastic to work very hard, because they work very hard, but they have to give all the fruit away. So because they are karmīs, they want the fruit. The state is taking the fruit; therefore they don't want to work.
Prabhupāda: Why they shall work?
Jayatīrtha: They have no incentive.
Prabhupāda: "I'll work and you'll enjoy." Why shall they work? That is natural tendency. This can be possible only for Kṛṣṇa. "I'll work; Kṛṣṇa will enjoy." That's all. That is only possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Pedantry, there is a... Our Harikeśa was speaking that if they do not say there is life in Mars, then their whole propaganda will fail.
Hari-śauri: Yes, I was saying that this morning.
Prabhupāda: This time, if they say that there is no life in the Mars, they'll never get next chance, he said. I think it is meaningful.
Bhagavān: It will substantiate our claim.
Prabhupāda: No, our claim intelligent. They are loitering. Our claim is that they do not know anything about that. All foolish propaganda. But their position is that unless they say that there is life, then this false propaganda will no longer run on. We are certain that they cannot go there, neither is it possible to understand what is there, simply imagination. We do not give any credit.
Prabhupāda: And if your electricity fails, you'll go to hell. (laughter) This is no argument. That is obstinate rascal's argument. That one, they were eating yogurt. Everyone said, "Oh, very first-class, nice yogurt." Everyone was saying. So there was the obstinate rascal, he has to find out some fault. He said, "Yes, it is very nice, but if we keep it three days it will be bad." He's not thinking of the present, but he has to criticize it, that if you keep it three days it will become bad. That is all right, but what you are tasting now, talking of that. When there will be rain, you'll have to go in the room—this is no argument. This is obstinate rascaldom. We're talking of this. If accident and this and that, then in everywhere that will... That I've already replied, if there is electricity failure, then it is...
Hari-śauri: But we have to plan for the future.
Prabhupāda: Future you cannot plan. That is the foolishness. That is another obstinate rascaldom. Future is not in your hand. You cannot plan. That is going on. They are planning so many things for future, but it is being baffled. So many schemes, so many there are. Our, in India there is a planning commission, after independence. So whatever they did, all failure.
Prabhupāda: Liberated soul never says that "I am liberated." As soon as he says "liberated," he's a rascal. A liberated soul will never say that "I am liberated." That is liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God—guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan (CC Adi 7.71). "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He's God. This is the example. If one remains always a servant ever-lastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Guru more mūrkha dekhi'. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mūrkha? Why He's posing Himself that mūrkha? "I am fool number one." That means that is liberation. You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal. Why Caitanya Mahāprabhu says guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan? This is sahajiyā-vāda. He is thinking, "Oh I have become liberated. I don't require any direction of my guru. I'm liberated." Then he's rascal. Why this Gauḍīya Maṭha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that "This man should be the next ācārya." But these people, just after his passing away they began to fight, who shall be ācārya. That is the failure. They never thought, "Why Guru Mahārāja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be ācārya?" They wanted to create artificially somebody ācārya and everything failed.
Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.
Pradyumna: Yes, nitya-pūjā, nitya-sevā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you cannot... One day, if you are sick, your wife will do that. But that half an hour pūjā must continue. That you must decide.
Pradyumna: Yes. Yes. I saw those brāhmaṇas in Udupi, they will never fail to do it under any condition. They have little box with śālagrāma, little śaṅkha, little thing, little tulasī leaf they get. They will do that every day daily. They cannot...
Prabhupāda: So both of you are initiated. In case you are little sick, your wife will do. In that platform you have to do it. Sevā shall not be stopped. Gradually as your son grows, he will also do it. So you can purchase one little siṁhāsana. That is available in any utensil shop. All right.
Pradyumna: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: ...required to kill somebody, he'll do that. If it is required for his sense gratification. There are many instances that a woman is addicted to another man and she has killed her husband, killed her son. Why? Sense gratification. I have seen one woman, my Godbrother's wife, she killed her son for being implicated with another man. I have seen it. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which are not to be done, they do it. Why? For the matter of sense gratification. They do it. That's a fact. So therefore simply for sense gratification they are prepared to do anything. That means pāpa. It is the verdict of the court that when a man kills another man he becomes mad. Without becoming mad a man cannot kill another man. So everything is being done which is not sanctioned because for sense gratification. The whole world is (indistinct) is sense gratification. And at the end, when he's little spiritually inclined, he wants to satisfy senses by thinking artificially that "I shall become God." That is the greatest sense gratification. "Because remaining a small living entity I have been hampered in my sense gratification. Now let me become God so that there will be no restriction of my sense gratification." Bhagavān (indistinct). Because he has failed to satisfy his senses remaining non-Bhagavān, now he wants to become Bhagavān. Yogi, that is also another sense gratification. That if I show some magic, if I can create little gold like this, hundreds and thousands of men will be after me and I shall live, very nicely. Gratify my senses. These things are going on practically. The man who is manufacturing gold, and so many rich people are coming to his disciples and he's begging for a motor car. If he can create gold, why he cannot create a motor car? This is going on.
Prabhupāda: I have seen, Gandhi wanted to organize a program, village (break) ...in the field, that this program for constructing toilet in the village, they have spent so much. You know that? The first business was toilet. To restrict them to pass stool here and there, they must have. Now in constructing that toilet paraphernalia, (indistinct), they... Therefore it failed, village organization. Not for that purpose. There were many purpose. Because they had no engagement, so why they should remain in the village? There are so many attraction in the city, and they get money. The factory-wallas, they're inviting, "Come here. You shall get twenty rupees per day." Why shall he remain in the village? So if you can organize in the villages, they are interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and getting nice prasādam, then... One must have some attachment. In the city there are so many artificial attachments. So on what ground they'll remain in the village? Mind, always remember this. Unless you have got some attachment, there is no possibility. Gandhi's program was very nice, village organize so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village. But where is that satisfaction? That is the failure.
Prabhupāda: A broker club business. So the businessmen, the zamindars, and gradually they started their factories, railways, in this way they started. And they are big politicians, so it is their management. And they failed when things were mismanaged. First of all they created friendship, and later on when they were in power, they created enmity. Then it is failed.
Devotee: Hm.
Prabhupāda: First of all friendship, and that established them. And then they began to create enmity. Hindus against Muslim, Muslim... They wanted to stay. When they forgot this idea that if they wanted to stay for the benefit of the people, nobody could drive them away. But their policy was for the benefit of the English people. Therefore they failed. Lord Curzon, he says a statement that, "If you want to stay in India, rule India for the benefit of Indian people. You can keep control over India. They are fond of kings, so one member of the royal family can become king here and they'll earn respect and honor (from) these Indian people. But rule for their benefit. Then British Empire will stay." Very good advice, but his advice was not taken. You have seen Lord Curzon's statue near the, in front of the Victoria Memorial Hall?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are afraid of the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Their whole economic structure will fail. Theoretically, take it for granted that if people give up meat-eating...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No smoking, no drinking.
Prabhupāda: Then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said... Not only that, one Sir Valentine Chiro (?), I think, Sir Valentine Chiro, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation. Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked at that time, that if one percent of the Indian people non-cooperate then we are, our British empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that this movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished.
Prabhupāda: Politics. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye. (BG 1.21) "Between the two soldiers, keep my chariot, my dear Acyuta." He is addressing Acyuta. Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, agreed to become his chariot driver. Therefore he is purposefully using this word acyuta. "Because I know You are the Supreme Lord, and I am ordering You, but because You promised that You will carry my order, Acyuta, You never fail in Your word." So God's another name is Acyuta. God never falls down. This Māyāvādī theory that "I am God, now I am fallen down," That is wrong theory. How God can fall down? If God falls down He is not God. Dog falls down, not the God.
Mr. Malhotra: How can he be supreme if he can fall down?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma-phale spṛhā (BG 4.14). "I have nothing to do, and neither if anyway I act, the resultant action does not effect Me." But we are all karma-phala vatya. (?) So how God and myself can be equal? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. There is daiva, there is superior arrangement. According to my karma I get a different type of body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1).
Prabhupāda: There are many good men. It is not that simply brāhmaṇas have gone to hell, but everyone has gone.
Guest (1): (indistinct) has failed.
Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. (Hindi) Śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). (Hindi) Nobody's... (Hindi)
Guest (1): No, the other day I was with Natalia in Japan, and he also said the same thing, that we have no training for the leaders. And because there is no proper leadership, everything comes to a zero. You have to train a man or a woman for a particular work. That is not being done in India.
Guest (2): British did it.
Guest (1): They made their servants quite all right.
Prabhupāda: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.
Prabhupāda: They wanted that the... That is cooperation. That is one of the Gandhi's understanding, that "These people are ruling over us by our cooperation. Therefore let us noncooperate and they'll fail. They'll not be able to rule."
Guest (1): Carry on their...
Prabhupāda: But that program was also failure because India is so poor that there was no possible to noncooperate, because Gandhi's civil disobedience movement only 60,000 men joined, and we have 600,000,000. So what is the percentage?
Guest (1): Not even one percent.
Prabhupāda: And that also, when they came back from the jail life, they decided not to do it again. Therefore Gandhi did not recommend mass civil disobedience next time. He recommended individual... (break) ...but (indistinct) 19l7, and we got svarāja in 1947. So it was not due to civil disobedience or noncooperation. It was due to Subash Bose's INA.
Prabhupāda: But in our Māyāpur, that plant, we spent so much, it has not become successful.
Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.
Prabhupāda: No, any machine, that defect will be there.
Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad. Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it. The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved. So good maintenance are required for any...
Prabhupāda: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In Māyāpur it is failure.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is going on. But disciples say that Aurobindo is more than... This is their knowledge.
Girirāja: That means he's failed as a guru. He hasn't...
Prabhupāda: He could not give them right knowledge. Phalena paricīyate. The paricīya is to be understood by the result. The disciple is the result. If they are so fool, then what is the guru?
Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇava-paramparā, Vallabhācārya, the whole lot is now. I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: They are criticizing us.
Pradyumna: You wrote that essay one time, "Hope Against Hope."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hope against hope is which is never fulfilled.
Mr. Asnani: Living in the fool's paradise.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "This plan has failed. Now let me this, make this plan. And then again fail? All right, let me this." This is hope against hope. He's thinking that "This plan has failed. Let me do this plan." Again failed? "Again another, again another."
Mr. Asnani: Foundation, as you said, is on the household.
Hari-śauri: Moghāṣā.
Prabhupāda: Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ... (BG 9.12).
Hari-śauri: Baffled hope.
Prabhupāda: It will never be fulfilled, but still, they will make plan. The Napoleon made a plan. Hitler made a plan. Churchill made a plan. Gandhi made a plan. Mussolini made a plan. But the plan and planmaker—all washed away. Things are going on as it is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Don't make plan. Take to My plan. You'll be happy. I'll give you." This planmaking... Our government has got planning commission. The planning commission has brought people in such a condition that they are dying of starvation. And they are taking salary, big, big, fat salary. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) You are dangerous. You are dangerous.
Gargamuni: Yes. They are trying to imitate our Māyāpur project, but they have failed. Trying to make a community. And they are very much hated by the local people because they are not following any regulative principles. They drink, they smoke....
Prabhupāda: They drink?
Gargamuni: Oh, yes. It's just a bunch of hippies now who are there. That's a complete bluff.
Prabhupāda: The Aurobindo was a hippie. (laughter) He had that long hair, and he was victimized by that mother. She brought... She was young, and she brought money, and Aurobindo was killed. In the beginning he had some yogic practice, but since that mother came, woman can conquer any rascal. (laughs) So she also... She conquered, and then nobody was allowed to see him in his secluded meditation. Only this mother was allowed. She would supply food, supply... And nobody could see. And she would give darśana only one day in the year. He would not speak with anyone, and the disciples were advised, "Simply think of Aurobindo. You have nothing to do." That's it. So you have been there?
Rāmeśvara: This is the only movement now. All these other attempts have completely failed, at least in America. All the Indian teachers that have come to America are being exposed.
Prabhupāda: But they say Transcendental Meditation is going...
Hari-śauri: Six million.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, that's big because you don't have to give up anything. I met some of my old friends in New York, and I debated with them. And their philosophy is that this Transcendental Meditation is based on natural process of God consciousness, and our effort is all artificial. We are giving up meat, giving up sex—this is artificial. Their philosophy is that "If you continue meditating, one day automatically you'll give up these things. So why do it prematurely?"
Prabhupāda: No, but if one day you have to give it up, why not prematurely?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...between the Māyāvādī and the actual philosophy of Lord Caitanya. And that review is a credit that your writing is so clear that they cannot fail to understand the point.
Prabhupāda: He has written that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has very convincingly presented." He said that.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. That was the first one.
Hari-śauri: He was writing how you were following strictly in the paramparā.
Rāmeśvara: Some of these scholars write "The message radiates and shines brightly from every page." They're writing like that.
Satsvarūpa: And after describing the whole tradition, he said that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the Western branch. So that's a good testimony for our movement, not just the...
Hari-śauri: Not something concocted.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. That's very good.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Rāmeśvara: That's very important. He has given us historical...
Prabhupāda: Place.
Prabhupāda: Very good. These are for higher devotees, not for the neophytes. For neophytes we have translated Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion. You have seen our books?
Guest (1): Yes, I have seen some. (break) ...lucidly and so much correctly brought out that I'm surprised to see these books, that how in a foreign country these books are so correctly brought out. Even we fail here to bring out these books correctly.
Satsvarūpa: As research editor, you could write a nice review of Śrīla Prabhupāda's reviews. We have many reviews. All the big Sanskrit scholars.
Guest (1): Yes, I will write. Actually if I get a small literature about Prabhupāda I will write an article in newspapers. People of Orissa could not know that an international figure came to Orissa, and they could not avail of the opportunity.
Hari-śauri: That would be very nice. International.
Gurukṛpa: Interplanetary.
Hari-śauri: These are appreciations from all over the world, France...
Guest (1): Pradyumna Mahārāja put some pertinent questions on Bhāgavata when he came to know that I am Sanskrit scholar. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Leyland.
Prabhupāda: Simply prasādam distribution-bas. We shall stop them with hari-saṅkīrtana, village to village.
Gargamuni: Yes, cause they frankly admit, the Americans, that they planted CIA agents in the priests to try and convince the people and change them. But they failed because these CIA agents became detected. So I told them that actually also this Christianity, the Indian people cannot accept, the mass of people. Maybe a few. But they can accept our movement.
Prabhupāda: No, that is in lower class, not brāhmaṇas.
Gargamuni: Yes. No. They will not accept. But they can accept this movement.
Prabhupāda: This movement will accept because there is prasādam, teaching, and actual behavior, Vaiṣṇava.
Gargamuni: And they've been brought up in it thousands of years. They will accept it. "And it's coming from America. Therefore you should support it."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In taxi in the beginning, I saw, "Three hund..., three thousand dollar." So (laughs)... And "Three thousand yen." So I did not know. I have got... They changed. Not dishonest. Honest or dishonest, I did not know. Whatever they took and returned, that's all. But I know they are not dishonest. They are nice people, hard worker, honest. But Japanese... This Tojo attempted that "This is the time for expanding with German help." Bad luck. They could not do. They wanted to keep China under their control. That also failed. They fought with the Russians in the beginning, when we were children, to expand-failed. This time they wanted to occupy Hawaii.
Hari-śauri: They had many, many islands. They took a lot. But gradually the Americans won them all back.
Prabhupāda: Now they are migrating. In Hawaii there are many Japanese. Many Japanese.
Hari-śauri: They're very much wanted in other countries as well. They're technicians.
Prabhupāda: So if you can educate people, they will be united. This is actually united nations movement. Actually see how these Europeans, Americans, and Africans, and others, without any artificial allurement, how we are keeping together. Nobody is dissatisfied with humble eating, humble living, humbly, plain living. So it is possible. There is possibility. We live simple life, high thinking-United Nation. We can possibly... And there will be no scarcity. If we live simple life with Kṛṣṇa conscious thinking, There will be no scarcity.
Gargamuni: But he is not eating.
Prabhupāda: No, that the other day we saw, the lions. There was quarrel, baby lions—not baby, very big—but there is no attack. There is no attack. The feelings of affection is there in the animal, ferocious animal. So what is the scientists' reply?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they are fascinated with this concept, but they cannot explain. They are failing those aspects.
Prabhupāda: So you are attacking them like this. Choke. (laughter) That is good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Darwin again. The Darwin... His own words. We are quoting his words, and we're going to use it as illustrations in the book as well as in the journal.
Prabhupāda: "I remember well the time when the thought of the eye made..." What is that? "...eye(?) made me cold, when the eye(?) made me cold all over, but I have got over this stage of the complaint, and now a small trifling, particulars of structure, often make me very uncomfortable. The sight of a feather in a peacock's tail, whenever I (sic?) crease at the neck..."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Make me sick."
Prabhupāda: "Make me sick."
Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Failure.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it has been completely failed. So now they are thinking about something else, that "Maybe what we thought was all wrong."
Prabhupāda: All wrong. Prove that. This is all wrong.
Gurukṛpā: They won't speak up or they'll lose their jobs.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. So they're coming around. When we say life is nonphysical and nonchemical, this is very touchy word which they don't like to hear in the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "nonphysical." Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ, nainaṁ śoṣayati āpaḥ (BG 2.23). Everything, five elements, material... It has nothing to do with these five elements, clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is beyond this. Here whatever you find is kṣitir āpaḥ tejaḥ marud vyomā: earth, water, air, fire. That's all. But beyond that, it is not physical. And at last, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Everything is there. So I was confident in the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore I strongly stressed, "This is all wrong." I believed completely in the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. I never experimented. But I know what Kṛṣṇa says is completely right.
Prabhupāda: So you reply this, that "You come. I shall train you. You will guide. We are prepared to guide you, but it is not possible to, bring men outside to guide you. You come to us. I shall train you how to guide." This is the reply. And that is wanted. This Bon Mahārāja failed. Why? He wanted... Guru Mahārāja wanted that you start one temple in London. But he was thinking of bringing, taking men from India. Actually he had no.... (break) That is the fact. Therefore he failed. Instead of serving Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, he wanted to serve Vivekananda. To become like Vivekananda and "I shall be very much eulogized in my country, second Vivekananda." That was his ambition. He never wished to defy Vivekananda and elevate Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He has introduced in his Oriental Institute, Gandhi philosophy, Vivekananda philosophy. Just see his position. He's appreciating... We are simply condemning Gandhi philosophy, and he's appreciating Gandhi. We are simply depreciating Vivekananda, and he's introducing Vivekananda. This is his position. He cannot understand even that where is philosophy in Vivekananda and Gandhi? Gandhi is nationalist. Again problem with your finger. Twenty-four hours, finger problem or nose problem. That I am observing. No attention. So where is philosophy in Vivekananda or Gandhi? He was nationalist.
Prabhupāda: Why he said dhīra, sober, cool-headed? These rascals are cats and dogs. They are not civilized, even big, big professors, they say, "Swami, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Has he got brain? And they're Communist leader. Identifying with this body. This is the actual platform of that body, dehātma-buddhiḥ. And they're described in the śāstra as no better than the asses. So next point will be that where you think beyond your capacity, we begin our education from there, seeing the... Our education begins from that. First of all try to understand what is spirit. Then it will... And our whole process is how to transfer one person from the material platform to the spiritual. Therefore they are thinking "brainwash." The fools, they cannot understand where our education begins. Where they have failed, we begin from there. Where they are disappointed, that "This cannot be answered," so on, we begin from there. So who is intelligent? We are intelligent or they are? We are trying to bring man from this gross misunderstanding, misidentification platform, to come to the spiritual platform. Then he understands what is the spiritual kingdom, the spiritual life that is eternal, blissful. Then he will understand. And that is all new to these dull-headed rascals. And they are thinking... It is the same, different subject matter.
Prabhupāda: To kill "demon-crazy," LSD. (laughs) Yes, that is my mission. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8), to kill all these demons, crazy demons. I have no such power; otherwise I would have killed them. Either establish Kṛṣṇa conscious government or kill them-bas, finish. I would have done that, violence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, when good argument fails...
Prabhupāda: Kill them. Finish. Just like Paraśurāma did. Kill all them, twenty-one times.
Bali-mardana: Oh, Paraśurāma. I was just reading in that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: ...8.3. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: No consideration. Kill them. Due to Paraśurāma, the kṣatriyas went to European side, fled away. From India either they were driven away or killed when they become inconsistent with Vedic rules. So these kṣatriyas and associates... These parts of the world were resided by aborigines, mean uncivilized class. So for so many years associated with them, they have learned killing the an... Otherwise they're Aryans.
Prabhupāda: You take some dāl. Go to house to house, dāl. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothers—unemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something, Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.
Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.
Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss.
Prabhupāda: What do they say?
Girirāja: That "You had a very big program, and..." They know the theme also. They say, "Yes, the theme was modern civilization, and it failed, and the only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then, having so many leading people praise your work...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually a letter came yesterday, I think, from the chief minister. I haven't opened it yet. Shall I bring it?
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Fan.
Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made.
Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hm? Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.
Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.
Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they... Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet when we went to visit him in Madras, I guess he was so...
Prabhupāda: No, that time he was finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He could not even recognize. He was failing.
Prabhupāda: No... I used to go to see him even at his house without engagement. And he liked me. He gave me many.... The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion. He gave some... I wrote correspondence with him. So he used to say, "Kindly pray to God for my salvation." He was not void. He was fearing God. But he did not accept this Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī. Otherwise he was a brāhmaṇa and learned scholar, God-fearing, everything.
Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex.
Prabhupāda: But... So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It's duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately... That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. In politics, nonviolence? Hm? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this I.N.A. it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.
Prabhupāda: And you are inviting Mr. Jetthi. So it is good opportunity. Let us...
Mr. Dwivedi: Failing that... If, somehow or other, he's not free... Because time is short, and if Jetthi says yes, then I have to go to the Chief Minister, because on previous occasion I told him I wanted him on a particular function. He said, "You do this. Then get this straight. Otherwise the president of our league(?) becomes expensive, so the expenditure will go over the head of the state." He showed me the way. So then immediately after, he said, "Yes." Then I, right from Delhi itself, I made a telephone call to the Chief Minister, and I said, "Such and such appealing, Mr. Jetthi is going, and I want to be present in the matter, and I request you also that you please participate."
Prabhupāda: Now the Chief Minister...
Mr. Dwivedi: Is Mr. Sukla there. Because then they'll have to make other arrangements.
Prabhupāda: Sukla?
Mr. Dwivedi: Yes. Camartan(?) Sukla.
Prabhupāda: But the disease is not ordinary. It is always fatal. But by His especial mercy anything can be done. That is another thing. Lost appetite means life finished. (pause) Tāvad tanu-bhṛtāṁ yad upekṣitānām. If Kṛṣṇa neglects, then nobody can live, but if He likes that "He must live," anything can happen. That is possible. Anityam asukhaṁ lokam imaṁ prāpya bhajasva mām. Anityam asukhaṁ lokaṁ bhajasva mām. Otherwise failing. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (pause) (break) (Hindi) (break) ...London. Guru Mahārāja sending him regularly seven hundred rupees per month. In those days seven hundred means at least...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty times?
Prabhupāda: That was in 1936. Rice has increased after 1940.
Prabhupāda: ...material body. So as soon as there is material attraction, the village organization will not stand because the other material attraction is industry. So because he's materially attracted, he'll say that "If I do industry, I get hundred rupees. Why shall I plow for five rupees?" That simply they do not know. Gandhi's plan failed there. If materially they are after material enjoyment, so if he gets hundred rupees, he thinks that "I will enjoy more. Why shall I be sticking to the service?" Then the village program will fail. They will go for the hundred rupees. That civilization they do not know. After all, they are all rascals. They won't take lesson from us or from the Vedic culture. Therefore it is failure.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they won't take.
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Therefore it will be a failure. We are... Just like in Hyderabad we are trying to make an ideal farm. If we can do, that will be success.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I saw personally Hari-prasad Badruka in Hyderabad. He tried to send his son to college, and the boy kept failing. Finally he took him back, and immediately he took to business, because his father's a businessman.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't do it.
Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief. They are not ashamed even. And people are adoring him: "O Sanjay, you are Indira Gandhi's son. I take your blessing." Doing practically. He was very much anxious to see Sanjay Gandhi. So what did I say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Actually in America, when you criticize someone who is highly regarded, people are very interested to read it. That is the American spirit. So I think by purposely singling out historical figures who are considered good welfare workers and showing that actually their welfare platform failed, it will make interesting reading and will help to establish the real platform of welfare in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I also want very much to write this book on men..." And then it says here, he says, "I... We decided on a number of historical figures. Because they lacked Kṛṣṇa in their philosophy and activities, their program for welfare failed. I want to deal with the figure of Mahatma Gandhi and also with the daridra-nārāyaṇa philosophy which was taught before his time by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda." He says, "When viewed in the light of Bhāgavata philosophy, these personalities will have to be criticized for their failure to put Kṛṣṇa in their teachings. My question is whether there is any objection on your part to a book which will criticize Ramakrishna and Vivekananda."
Prabhupāda: I think that is not good. You should go positively instead of attacking some particular person. They will never admit that they have been failure.
Prabhupāda: We want that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody admits that no one can beat us in our book distribution. Other groups, they tried to duplicate what we are doing, but they failed.
Prabhupāda: No, what they have got, books?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's another thing. The other Santa Claus, they don't give anything. We give books. They give nothing except they pat the guy on the head. They pat the child. That's all. What will that help the child, patting him on the head? And another thing is that all the other Salvation Army Santa Claus, they're all drunkards.
Prabhupāda: They must be drunkards.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know the Salvation Army is very... They take all the drunkards. They give them Santa suits.
Prabhupāda: If you take money without any aim, you must be drunkard.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is yuddha, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we go direct from Dum Dum to Māyāpur. We don't even have to go into Calcutta. Is that all right? So do you agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with the idea then, that the sooner we transfer there, the better, to Māyāpur? As far as the kavirāja goes, let us see if we get a local man from Calcutta, failing which, Smara-hari plus one other devotee will go to Śrī Raṅgam, and from a very reliable kavirāja, in their presence, they will have it made. Smara-hari, you see, is from Gurukṛpā and Yaśodā-nandana's party, so he has got experience sitting and watching people making the silver onto the throne. He knows how to sit and watch not to get cheated.
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)
Prabhupāda: No, that is the only hope. All hopes fail.
Bhavānanda: But then Kṛṣṇa did direct you within that dream to take this medicine. Just try one more day. If all hope is frustrated, then what is the loss if we take that medicine one more day?
Prabhupāda: That medicine take...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, were you hopeful about this medicine when you first took it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I thought it will give strength, but instead of strength, I am passing stool, so whatever strength is there... (end)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) It's not as rough as traveling to Māyāpur, though, not one tenth as rough or one fiftieth. You know, all you got to do is go on a rough road. It's nothing. This palanquin is smooth compared to that, going slowly and being carried. I think the main point, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we have to consider going as opposed to staying here with the possibility of being at the..., under the care of this other kavirāja. That to me is the choice. This kavirāja will give medicines... First of all, we can try to convince him to stay, but failing that, he's giving a series of medicines which he expects will be proper according to the condition. But naturally the condition can change on any date. Then what will we do?
Prabhupāda: I say no medicine.
Prabhupāda: Ah. That means I have to take the medicine and not that risking. The best thing is, whatever service you can give, you arrange. Leave me without medicine.
Bhavānanda: Why is that the best thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Why is that the best thing?
Prabhupāda: Because all, everything has failed.
Bhavānanda: This kavirāja has not promised miraculous recovery. He has said it takes time.
Bhakti-caru: Yes. At least fifteen days, he said.
Bhavānanda: We're all feeling encouraged for the first time.
Bhakti-caru: Actually the kavirāja has left it up to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the way you have cured your cough and cold in just a day, in just a few hours' time, the same way you can cure all your disease if you want, just yourself, without any medicine. At the same time, you dreamt this Rāmānuja kavirāja giving you the medicine, and ever since you started taking the medicines there has been some good effect, like you started passing more urine, you started getting a little appetite, little taste, your swelling has gone down, to some extent.
Prabhupāda: Swelling has not... (long silence)
Prabhupāda: So we failed to catch.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You must have been surprised when Prabhupāda didn't come out of the plane.
Śatadhanya: Surprised? Yes. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They arranged that special lift to take you out of the plane also. Remember when we went in the plane on British Airways from London? That way you don't have to get carried or bounced around, because it's a machine that goes up and down.
Prabhupāda: The difficulty is on the, this road.
Bhavānanda: We will all sit down and discuss the different arrangements that have to be made, plans that have to be made. It's a very nice idea. Real sannyāsa life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mm. You have tried doctor, kavirāja, medicine, everything. Everything has failed. Now suppose I am taking the risk of death, what is wrong? When the..., I am dead you go India, within India, you go and bring the body either in Māyāpur or Vṛndāvana. Māyāpur the land is already there. Vṛndāvana I think on the gate side, that's all. That's wherever you like you'll do.
Jayapatāka: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you commented that when Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda was put on the gate side that that was no way to respect a Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Mm.
Jayapatāka: So then doesn't seem proper to put you by the gate.
Prabhupāda: No, not by the gate. There is ample land. Or in Māyāpur, that will be very nice. Mm.
| Page Title: | Fail (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=173, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 173 |