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Experiment (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful. I got these young boys and girls married, and they are very happily living, and husband and wife, they are preaching. All my students in London—there are six boys and girls—they were married by me, and they are doing very nicely. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice in everywhere, especially in this country. That is my opinion.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are trying to stop the, I mean to say, overpopulation. But where is the solution? Every minute, there are three persons increasing. That is the statistics. So there is no solution for birth, there is no solution for death, there is no solution for disease and there is no solution for old age. There was a great scientist, Professor Einstein, he also died in old age. Why did he not stop to check old age? Everyone is trying to remain youthful. Where is that process? So they do not care how to solve this because this is beyond their means. They are giving something bluff, that's all. They do not care what is the real problem and how to solve it. They do not care for it. But here is a movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is the real solution of all problems, if people take it seriously. Yes. And the whole thing is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Let them try to understand it. At least, make an experiment. Why they are so much callous and going in their own way?

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because I want to give this culture to the world, and my idea is that America is advanced country. If they accept it, then it will be possible to broadcast the idea throughout the whole world. That is my idea. But I am hopeful now because these educated young Americans, they are taking serious interest to this movement. And we are publishing papers, books, and they are writing very nicely. So I am old man, I may die, but I have implanted the idea. It will go on. It will go on, and they will be accepted. That experiment is done. If it is nicely propagated, then it will be accepted without any fail. And these boys who have come to me, they have taken seriously. So I am hopeful.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Our recommendation is simply, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So far the Sanskrit word is, that is not a problem. Everyone is chanting. So what is the difficulty? Bring any religious principle. You cannot find so easy. We don't recommend the ritualistic. That is... That is not very important thing. We are giving, say, simply chant. Ritualistic performance a little more helping. That's all. It is helping. It is not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that all the strength and all the beauty, all the wisdom, everything is there in the name. Simply by chanting we get all, everything. But just to help it. It does not... If somebody does not want our ritualistic, that is not an important thing. We don't say. We simply recommend that "You please chant." That's all. I requested you to chant. Not that I requested that you adopt our means. So that we are requesting. Let them chant. Make an experiment. It is not very difficult thing.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: ...my Guru Mahārāja was in his last days, these rascal doctors injected... Our, this Kuñjabihārī, Tīrtha Mahārāja brought so many big, big doctors. And he protested, "Why are you giving me injection?" He protested. He personally said, "Why are you giving me injection?" And if you bring a doctor, the rascals will not stop. "Oh, that is our treatment. We must try our best." They will plead like that. "To give more trouble to the patient, that is our business." Inventing new medicines means inventing new means of giving trouble. That's all. As soon as you ask them whether by injection the life is guaranteed, they will say, "No. There is no guarantee. Let us try, make experiment." Yes. In hospital, as soon as you get (microphone moving)... Whatever nonsense knowledge they have got, they make experiment, at the risk of other's life.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They canvass, they convince like that and make experiment. That is their business. They have no, I mean to say, assured idea. Simply experiment. All these hospitals, they are meant for making experiment. I think I have told you one story of my servant. Did I? Huh?

Haṁsadūta: No. Please tell us the story. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The servant was crying, "Oh! I am dying, I am dying, I am dying." So I immediately called ambulance and took her to the hospital. Then, when I went there, there were so many neophyte doctors. They experimented, and they said, "Immediate operation is required." "Why?" They gave us some technical terms. Then their leader doctor came. He said, "All right. Let us see this night. Then, next morning, we shall operate." So I asked him, "I can go? He may remain in your charge?" "Yes." So I went, came back. And when I was absent, another servant of the neighbor, he told to my wife, that "Babuji..." Babuji means master. "...it is unnecessarily he has taken to hospital. He was drunk, and he was crying like that.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said...

Śyāmasundara: This can be proven. This can be tested, if someone's cheating or not cheating can be tested on a factual basis. Similarly, this science can be tested...

Prabhupāda: Observation and experiment.

Śyāmasundara: Whether it has a good effect or it has a bad effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming down from Kṛṣṇa through the chain of disciplic succession. So if it is actually given in the exact definition, that process, it is effective. And it is actually being experienced that it is effective.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: May I give an example of the fallacy there; is that Sir Alexander Flemming didn't learn his curative, antibiotics, from any other person, he discovered them by natural scientific methods of observation and inference and experiment.

Prabhupāda: But experimental knowledge of scientific handling must he have learned from somebody else.

Dr. Weir: That's a different thing.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he has a teacher. You cannot say that, or he has taken the techniques of other scientists and he has experimented. In the laboratory appliances he cannot say that he has, he invented the laboratory appliances.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes, right. That's right. That is the fact. That is the fact. So despite my becoming a scientist, I am a subordinate scientist. Our, my scientific research is going on under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Because the experiment which you are making in the laboratory, the ingredients, they are produced from Kṛṣṇa. The mind with which you are working, that is produced by Kṛṣṇa. The direction you are receiving from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when you prepare something, that is Kṛṣṇa's production. Kṛṣṇa is indirect cause and you are direct cause. The other day while coming on the plane you told me that they are trying to make copy of the brain of...

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family. Why they have taken seriously? Because they have understood Bhagavad-gītā nicely. So I request that God is neither Indonesian, neither Indian, neither African, God is God.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Science says that: "observation and experiment." That is science. You observe how things are going on. And you experiment. Then it is perfect. But you cannot make experiment, you simply observe, that, a child also can also observe, and he can speak something nonsense. Just like in our childhood, we were observing the gramophone box, that within the box there is some man who's singing. And electric fan. I was thinking: There must be some ghost. Yes. These kind of suggestion...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: :The... In the first time when learn about the difference between the living and the nonliving, this is one of the very popular questions when we start biology: What is the difference between living and the nonliving? So they answer there are several points to differentiate between the two. And they say the living can move and the nonliving cannot grow or cannot move.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But why don't you create from sand? Flying like that. You are so advanced. Take some grains of sand and create another fly. They cannot create even an ant, and still they say that life is coming out from matter. And in future we shall create. In future, what is your credit? It is already there. If your science is perfect, that life is coming out of matter, now prove it by laboratory experiment. Take some sand and create some life. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're concluding, the scientists, that without having the real knowledge of their investigation. Because they are concluding that life started from matter, but there's no proof.

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life. So if you don't take up opportunity, how to think, then what is the use of your thinking like cats and dogs? Simply wasting time. The valuable life, you are wasting. Making experiment in the laboratory, nonsensically, that from matter they'll create life. You see. How this nonsense...? What is the use of such thinking? Which is never possible. These rascals are thinking on that, in that way, that they'll in future produce life from matter which has never been possible in the history, past, present and they're thinking; "Oh, bright future." That potter's thinking.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is an experiment that was done by Pasteur, a French scientist a long time ago. In that experiment he boiled some, I think it was water. Because normally the water, without boiling there are so many microorganisms, small, small living entities, that can be detected under microscope. He wanted to know whether life started from some ingredients inside or just life started from life. So he boiled this solution and he kept for some time under very careful covering so that there is no contamination from outside. And then there was no life. He couldn't find any organisms. So they said, "Life starts from matter." That is one of the experiments.

Prabhupāda: What is that experiment?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Boil water first of all. Without boiling water, they can detect so many organisms, small, small bacteria and these small, small living entities under microscope. But when they would boil it and it kept for some time, and then they tested, there was no organisms.

Prabhupāda: But that microscope is imperfect. That is our contention. Because the living entities, the dimension of the living entity is 1/10,000th part of the top of your hair. So what you can see?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So these things are going on. Ultimately comes to Kṛṣṇa. What you are researching, what you are talking, that is also Kṛṣṇa is doing. Kṛṣṇa is giving you in... You, you prayed for this facility to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving you. Sometimes you find accidentally the experiment is successful. So when Kṛṣṇa sees that you are so much harassed in experimental, "All right do it." Just like Yaśodā Mā was trying to tie Kṛṣṇa, but she could not do. But when Kṛṣṇa agreed, it was possible. Similarly, this accident means Kṛṣṇa helps you: "All right, you have worked so hard, take this result." Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me the proper steps how to do the experiments."

Prabhupāda: Yes, he gives you. Otherwise how you are doing it. Whatever you are doing, that is by Kṛṣṇa's grace. And when you are still favorable, then Kṛṣṇa will give you more facilities. Kṛṣṇa will give you facility, will favor you, as much as you desire, not more than that. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva... As much proportionately you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, the intelligence will come.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this movement is the most important movement. For giving direction, we don't charge, and by following our direction, they don't lose anything. So why not make an experiment and see the result? The result is already there. Any intelligent man can see. It is not bluff.

Bhagavān: We are living, sixty, seventy people in this house, cooperatively, like this. That is a very great thing.

Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication. And as soon as a intoxicated person comes to our camp, he not only gives up LSD and liquor, he gives up even smoking, drinking tea and coffee. So why not experiment this movement. The greatest socialist movement. If you want to get the socialistic idea, we can give you.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So somebody says, "This good aroma is coming because the air passing through a flower garden, therefore this aroma." Now this is a fact, but you cannot see the aroma or the air. But you hear from an experienced man. That is the way of understanding which is beyond your sense perception. But these rascals, simply they are depending on their blunt senses, these stupids, so-called scientists. Therefore they're stupids. They simply believe on their eyes. They do not know how much defective these eyes and senses are, incomplete. That they do not know. They believe on their defective senses. Akṣaja. Akṣaja, akṣ... Experiment. Everything experimented. Veda says don't try to explain which is beyond your sense. How you will explain? It is not possible. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. It is acintya, it is beyond your conception.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they cannot produce. That is the difficulty. They'll speak all nonsense, but cannot produce. No experiment. Simply theoretical observation. That's all. So observation is not perfection of science. You must produce it by experiment. Then it is perfect. Two departments.

Hṛdayānanda: So if you can produce something, that means you actually understand it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it is a combination of such and such chemicals... Just like these rascals say, "Life..." Now he said that "You take the chemicals. Can you produce?" He said, "That I cannot say." You see? Avoiding the issue. This was discussed in the meeting. What is that gentleman?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As you have changed so many times in this life, this body, similarly, after death, you will change your body." That is authority. You have to hear. Anything you do not, cannot perceive, you cannot experiment with your senses, you have to hear from another person who knows. That is the process.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, you may think, but what is the opinion of the scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, scientists would say that there is no background.

Prabhupāda: So how it so happens?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they say something which cannot be proved by experimental science, that does not work, calling science.

Prabhupāda: So then how do you say that life is from matter? That cannot be proved by experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they are going to prove it. They are trying to prove it.

Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.

Sujit: See, astrology, I think, what he said is half true. Astrology is a science but it is not an exact science like mathematics and chemistry.

Prabhupāda: No, No, it is mathematics. Astrology is simply based on mathematics. Exactly.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nāsato vidyate bhāvo nā..., asataḥ vidyate bhāvaḥ. What is the next line? So, we take things which is conclusive. The scientists, they are making experiment, where is the beginning of life. Misled. They are thinking life is from matter. They have no experience. Still, the rascal Darwin gave a theory. They are persisting on it. They have no practical experience that life is coming from matter. That is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. You have no experience in your country. We have got. Sometimes you'll find, scorpion is coming out from the stack of rice. You have seen it?

Karandhara: I haven't seen it, but I have heard of the example.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that they propose so many nonsense things, but they cannot do anything.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are making experiments on rats now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They will go on experimenting life after life. That is their foolishness.

Gurukṛpā: Next life they may have to experiment in a dog's body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And some of our politicians, he has become a dog. Yes. Nehru. He has become a dog, in Stockholm. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told that to my mother and she would not believe it. You know, people think that if someone is a great politician or something, he can never become something like this.

Prabhupāda: Then why the politician dies? If he has got so good brain, let him live forever.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Nitāi: Well, then they, then they'll tell you that, "Well, come and we'll show you this experiment."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Nitāi: We show you these experiments, and then you can see too.

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You show, make experiment, that from the monkey's body a man is coming. Show me the experiment. Nobody has seen the experiment.

Nitāi: Well, in that case they say that the monkey looks so much like man; everything is practically there.

Prabhupāda: Well, that doesn't mean... Every man looks like another man; that does not mean he has come from him. He has got a different father.

Nitāi: One experiment that they've come up with is that they study the embryo within the womb.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Nitāi: They study the embryo within the womb.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your experience, but I have not seen. Why shall I believe you? I have not seen. Why will I believe you? What is the answer? You say so many rascaldom, but I have not seen. Why shall I believe you?

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: But they are manufacturing their own way. But Kṛṣṇa showed, "Not in this way, simply make Me center and the whole thing (indistinct)." But that they'll not do. They'll do in their own way, concocting some idea. And your idea will clash with me, my idea will clash with you, the same struggle continues. The communists will not agree with the others, the capitalists. The capitalist will not agree. But they are struggling to come to that, the platform of love.

Guest: Yes, it's the inter-attractiveness even on a planetary scale that holds the world.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives very perfect formula—that you sit together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything (indistinct). That also (indistinct). There is no loss, let us make an experiment.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence. Otherwise... Just like science means simply not to see observation that things are taking place, but experiment. It must be substantiated by experiment. Just like theoretically everyone knows that two chemicals, soda and alkali, mixes together and there is interaction, effervescence. But who is mixing the soda and alkali, er, alkali and acid? There must be. Therefore the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence." That is God.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That is called realization. Yes. First of all you receive the sound, then apply your instruments, and when you find it, it is correct—that is the realization. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect. That's all. We are not perfect. But the knowledge we are getting, that is perfect. So according to that perfect direction, if we mold our life, then we are successful. Otherwise you go on experimenting, speculating. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Ciram, you understand, "perpetually," vicinvan, "thinking." Ciraṁ vicinvan.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: You have to see... That... Vedic injunction says, śāstra-cakśuṣā. Śāstra-cakśuṣā: "Your eyes should be the śāstra." There is another crude example. Just like who is your father? How do you understand? Through the vibration of the mother. The mother says, "He is your father." You accept it. Otherwise there is no experiment. So things which are beyond your perception, beyond your defective senses, that should not be speculated. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyā khalv ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. These are the injunction. What is beyond your perception, beyond your speculation, don't waste your time so-called argument and logic. What is argument? Mother says, "He is your father." Where is the argument? You cannot apply any argument.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Therefore he's seeking pleasure. That is the real aim. Therefore he's going into the water. He has no business to go to the water, but because he is seeking pleasure—"Let me see if there is some pleasure. Experiment." That's all. But he does not get... Just like they are going to the moon planet, moon planet: "Let us see." Because there is no ānanda, he is seeking another type of ānanda. And now they have failed. Now they're going to Venus or what?

Devotees: Mars.

Prabhupāda: Mars. This is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He's not seeking after where is eternal happiness. He's... Temporarily, he's seeking here, there. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. In this way his life is finished, seeking ānanda, and he gets another body, another term. So his intelligence is not coming to the point that "What is this ānanda? I am eternal. I am seeking eternal ānanda. Why this ānanda? Sometimes this body, sometimes this position, sometimes that position—what is this?" That is intelligence.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that you take the vibration from the Vedic knowledge and you experiment it. Observation and experiment, that is scientific. So first of all observation and then experiment. And when you are satisfied by experiment, then it is perfect knowledge.

Guest (1): If I am satisfied? Can I rely that much on myself?

Prabhupāda: Anyone can do, provided he knows the art how to do it. It is a technique also. You cannot make experiment as a crude man. You must be expert. But it is... In our Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find that there is a statement, caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra: "Just try to make an experiment on the mercy of Lord Caitanya." Vicāra karile citte pabe camatkāra: "When you make an experiment, then you'll be awe-full 'Oh, it is so nice.' " So it is not to be accepted blindly.

Professor: Can one perceive by their own senses what is that...?

Prabhupāda: No, you have to see through the eyes of the śāstra, but God has given you the instrument by which you can make an experiment. Yes. The same thing, as it is stated... Find out that verse from Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). (break) This is the statement. Now you make experiment. You have got physical laboratory.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That you must know the, how it can be experiment. It is given. The example is given that... What is that? "As the child is passing"?

Hṛdayānanda: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, this is a fact. Everyone knows that body is changing. Now, how the last body's changed? That you make experiment, how it is passing. Yes. To make experiment means you have to know the science how to make experiment. That is knowledge. You take the basic principle of knowledge, and then you make your experiment and you will know this is perfect.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So why do they not do that?

Vīra-lakṣmaṇa: They've made an experiment...

Prabhupāda: That means they are not in knowledge. That I am speaking, the barking dog. First of all make experiment, produce life. Then come and say. Otherwise don't bark like a dog, imitation. Simply big, big words. Produce. Our theory is that... In the śāstra it is said harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nās... (CC Adi 17.21). That practical proof we are giving, that these Europeans, Americans, they are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and how they are coming out, this practical proof. They did not know five or six years ago what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's name. But we are taking the conclusion of the śāstra: in this age, if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes spiritualized. That is becoming, practically. It is not theory. How so many devotees are in this Atlanta, here? Anywhere, wherever we have started, how they have become devotee? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You follow this formula and you will become God conscious."

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: That mantra is cited, that "He was sacrificing your life, so you get immediately human form of body, and you can kill this man." So this is the Vedic rituals. Another animal sacrifice is there just to make experiment of the Vedic mantra. An animal is sacrificed in the altar, and he is given again life, rejuvenated life. An old cow sacrificed, and he gets a youth, young (body). If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu gives very shortcut formula that "You sit together, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be solved." Very simple thing: "Sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That also they will not do. There is no loss. Let us make an experiment—that also we are not executing. What is the loss? If we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we are not losing anything. If there is some gain, why not make an experiment? So if you propose this to the United Nation, he'll think of me, "A crazy fellow."

Ambassador: Like we did together in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You have seen it. They were very much eager. They were very much eager: "Swamiji continue." And the others, like Communist and others, they became upset. I have seen many big, big officers. They were chanting, returning from the office in the office dress, and they were chanting and dancing. And you have seen the crowd, twenty thousand, thirty thousand people. The same thing happened in Calcutta. Now the government did not give us again that land. Yes.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even if it is not possible, but you have to accept there is a supreme scientist. If you cannot see Him, that is your disqualification. That is your disqualification. But you have to admit that there is a supreme scientist. If you say that hydrogen and oxygen mixed together makes water, that's all right. But who has created this big sea and ocean? Wherefrom the hydrogen, oxygen came? Who supplied? That is intelligence. Simply theoretical I know, but I cannot say who has created this big, vast mass of water by mixing hydrogen, oxygen. Wherefrom such huge quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came? Our point of view, that you scientists, you say that hydrogen, oxygen creates water, and here we see that somebody has created, but not somebody will know who is that body, how great He is. And that is our credit. If you want little credit by experimenting, hydrogen, oxygen mixed together, then how much credit should be given who has created the vast Atlantic Ocean, not only one, millions! Why don't you give credit?

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have to. I have to take knowledge from my mother, from my father. That is the beginning of knowledge. Intelligent boy asks father, "What is this?" And father explains. Mother gives the knowledge, "Here is your father." So it is from authority. Otherwise, how you can experience who is your father? How do you get? Can you experiment who is your father?

Girl: Yes. I ask my mother.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That is authority. That is not experiment. That is authority. Therefore knowledge by authority and knowledge by experience... So I am changing my body. You experience "I was child, I was boy, I was young man. I was middle-aged. Now I am old man." This is experience. And the authority says, "As you have changed this body, similarly, you change this body and get another body." This is authority. Then where is the lack of knowledge? So knowledge is already there in two ways: by experience and by authority.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The whole theory, Darwin's theory, is a false theory. It has no sound background. He says it is theory. Theory is not science. I can propose some theory, "It is like that." But that is not science. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe how the rules are working, and when you practically bring them into experiment, then it is science. If you simply theorize, that is not science. Mental speculation. It has no benefit. You can speculate, constructing a castle in the air. That is not a very good thing. You should present something which will benefit the people, and practical. That is science.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are intelligent, that "This is all nonsense. Real thing is God." That is... They come to their senses. They are intelligent. (break) (In car:) ...real business is to enhance your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people, they are wasting time simply to know something else. There is no limit. Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. What is moon planet? What business you have got to know the...? Whatever is stated in the śāstra, accept it, that's all. What is the use of experiment and going there and then again say, "Oh, it is all failure." Simply waste of time. The arrangement is there by God. That's all. Spending so much money, hard-earned money, unnecessarily and then say, "Oh, it is failure."

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That transcendental meditation, that is a bogus humbug. So they are making experiment. So in that way it is good for us, that they're better than transcendental meditation.

Harikeśa: But sometimes the devotees become very excited, you see, when we chant and the test goes up.

Upendra: No, but this is... Dharmādhyakṣa was... He did it. The same result, they have to act the same way. They have to chant their japa nicely. And then the transcendental meditationist will meditate his way. But the results are coming out better in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Dharmādhyakṣa, at least, and Guru dāsa said so I'm not sure. It hasn't been working yet.

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that beyond the senses, the mind is there. Beyond the mind, the intelligence is there. Beyond the intelligence, the soul is there. So they are studying the mind. They are not even on the intelligence platform, and what to speak of spiritual platform? Mano-rathena asato dhavato, bahiḥ. These rascals, those who are on the mental plane, they will remain materialists. That's all. They will not know, understand anything spiritual.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is science. If you can prove it by experiment. Otherwise, it is not science, theory.

Paramahaṁsa: But how can they prove the existence of the soul through experiment?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all let them prove by chemical composition they can produce life. Then we shall talk of soul. First of all let them, in the laboratory, let the chemicals be mixed up and produce a small ant. Then we shall understand.

Siddha-svarūpa: We don't need to make experiments.

Harikeśa: They can make these little amoebas but they can't make ants.

Prabhupāda: Amoebas, that is automatically... By perspiration it comes out. There are four sources of life: udbija, jarayuja, svedaja, and, what is other? Andaja. Andaja means life comes from the egg. That is called andaja. And life comes from, under certain circumstances... Just like trees, grass. It is called udbija. And then jarayaja, just like we human beings or animals, they come from the embryo. And svedaja. And some living entities come out from perspiration.

Harikeśa: So they were saying in this experiment they made that they completely...

Prabhupāda: Four kinds of generating process is there. So what they have studied? That germs come out perspiration, that is already accepted in the Vedas. Under certain circumstances the germs come by, what is called? Scientific name?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Caitanyer dayār kathā kara vicāra: "Just analyze the merciful contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu with others." That you have already experienced, that they experimented in so many ways, but as soon as they come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, saṅkīrtana, they become immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest thing." So that is vicāra, judgement. Caitanyer dayār kathā. There are many contribution of the world, many scientists, many physiologists, many... But Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, "Compare with the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you will be surprised." Oh! Just like they became surprised, immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest." That is stated by Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that "The merciful contribution given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu-compare with any other contribution of the world, scientist, physiologist and this and that. You will see this is the best." Caitanyer dayār kathā karaha vicāra. (break) (Prabhupāda talking with someone in Bengali about different types of dahl) (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...experiments that these... I know of the experiments that these men are doing. They're connected... They have gone to the Buddhists. They've gone to Buddhist monks and various people that are into voidism, and they've made these tests, and it comes out that there's no activity. So they're seeing this as being the goal. They're trying to see if the same perfection, result of perfection, is achieved by the chanting. They already have a preconceived notion of what perfection is, and if they're testing to see if...

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: This is the definition, that "As kaṁsa, the bell metal, by manipulating with mercury, it becomes gold, similarly, a person by the process of dīkṣā, initiation, be becomes a brāhmaṇa. This is the example he has given. Yathā kāñcanataṁ yāti. Kāñcanatam means gold. Rāsa-vidhānataḥ, by process of mercury manipulation. Why he has not taken other metal? This is in the śāstra. And the scientists—I do not know—they say that some, what is called, molecules? Some molecules added with mercury, it can be turned into gold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know why they don't do it.

Paramahaṁsa: They are experimenting.

Prabhupāda: They have not come to success. So why not make experiment in the laboratory?

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, we prove it as a living and dead man, we give that proof. What is the difference between this dead man and living man? What is losing? What is missing? This is the proof. If... I so many times spoken that son is crying, "My father is gone, my father." "Where is your father gone? He is lying here. So what is gone? You have not seen it." This is the proof. Why do you cry, "Father is gone"? Father is lying here. Why do you say, "gone"? So that means what is gone, you have never seen it. Now you perceive, "Yes, something was there. Now he is gone." This is the proof.

Bahulāśva: So our statements are also backed up by observation. The Gītā's statements are also backed up by observation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe that this man is moving. There is something... (sound of someone calling from a distance) (Prabhupāda calls:) Invite him. You are invited come.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, observation and experiment.

Bahulāśva: And experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is science. (break)

Guru dāsa: To make an experiment by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. Here is experiment, just like the dead man and living man. First of all, you observe that this man is moving or this animal is moving. There is some moving force. And the experiment is when the man and animal is dead, you can understand that the moving force is gone. This is experiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your car is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Jayatīrtha: We can walk further if you like.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: The psychologists feel limited by the particulars means of experimentation that have already been used by other psychologists.

Prabhupāda: What experiments they have made?

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, these particular tests and so on that they're using. So it seems that he ought to change. Because somebody started doing that, right? I mean, they didn't always use those tests. They always change different kinds of tests and everything. Instead of being limited, he should offer a new method of observation, a new method of tests.

Prabhupāda: It is simple, but because of their bad education, they cannot understand the simple thing.

Bahulāśva: They want everything complicated.

Prabhupāda: Complicated. The experiment is there. Observation is there. Everything is there. And the eternity is there. Kṛṣṇa begins like reasonable gentleman, not humbug. He says, tathā-dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), very good example, that "As in this, body is changing from this stage to this stage, this stage, this stage, step by step, similarly," tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "similarly another body." So where is the difficulty to understand? So if this is accepted, then immediately you can accept that the soul which is changing body, he is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate. Therefore he was never born, never died.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: You make it. That means experiment. You simply observe, but you have no experiment. Therefore it is not science.

Brahmānanda: You have to demonstrate knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, demonstrate. You make in the laboratory that things are moving by this combination. Otherwise it is useless. Therefore two things must be there: observation and experiment, practical and theoretical. Theoretical—something is there who is moving. Now you make it practical to see that this combination... Just like they say chemical combination. Now take the chemicals and make experiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the thing is that they are now in the test tube they are making experiment, and they are putting a certain set of chemicals together and maybe some soul takes shelter of those chemicals. But the scientists say that they get the credit for it. They don't say that the soul has entered. They say, "No, we have put different elements together, and now some..."

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The scientists, how they can argue like that? Therefore they are rascals. First of all they explain something theoretically: "Hydrogen, oxygen-mix together it becomes water." It is faith. Then it is practically shown in the laboratory. So faith is the beginning. Theoretical knowledge means faith. Then experiment.

Baradrāj: The Vedic knowledge is also that way, very scientific.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: So first we hear from the guru that Kṛṣṇa is God, and we have faith in that, we chant, and then we come to know.

Prabhupāda: As you become purified, then your faith becomes fixed up with knowledge. Therefore that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam: (BG 7.28) "One who has finished his sinful life, he can become a devotee." Otherwise one cannot. First of all, beginning in faith. Then, by following the process, he becomes completely sinless. Then he, full knowledge. And so long he will be sinful, the things will be not properly manifested. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: How to get him to voluntarily make this experiment, because this is what you were saying. Any scientific development rests on experimentation. The challenge to experiment...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: ...is there. God does not deny anybody the privilege of experimenting.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: And especially the youth at university, as I have always indicated and I tell them every year that they’ve got to experiment with the spirit to the same extent that they experiment in their laboratories with pieces of animal tissues or grass or what it is that they’ve got to analyze. But the real tragedy is that we have wandered away so far from the spirit and from the spiritual laboratory...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: ...that we don’t know where to start. I was telling them the other day that when the Americans sent their first man to the moon, they had a laboratory of about four thousand men at the controls. The one was doing this and the other one was doing that, but this was a huge human laboratory. That is only while they experiment, and then by that... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is my student. He practices like him.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah, but now would he have what is normally in the Western world called a theological degree?

Prabhupāda: He has...theological degree, he has studied all these books. This is theological. But there is no such thing at the present moment.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah. I can see your problem. But now our problem on this side is, of course, that you...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just as in America, I remember at the university...

Prabhupāda: No, you can give an experiment. We don’t charge anything. You see how he teaches. Then if you like, you can appoint.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?

Harikeśa: Plastic.

Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect. What do these kings and president or minister get respect?

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Experimental science is condemned. What you will make, ex... You are imperfect. What is the value of your experiment? Therefore it is rejected. Whatever you'll do, that is imperfect. First of all you become perfect; then you make experiment. But you are... You remain imperfect, and you making experiment. What is the value of it? (break) ...is no experimental knowledge. All established truth. That is vijñāna, or science.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Established truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The sun rises on the eastern side; that is established truth. You cannot change it. And that is vijñāna. Man dies. This is established truth. You cannot make any change by experimental knowledge. This is vijñāna. Nṛpa nirnita: "It is already settled." In the Vedic knowledge there is no such thing as laboratory or experiment, discovery, nothing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People blindly would accept that cow dung was purified without having to test it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you make experiment; you will find it all right. So we save time. (break) ...no experiment. (break) ...experiment has become successful? Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they've cured certain diseases by experimentation.

Prabhupāda: That is success? You stop disease. What is this, "cure disease"? Malaria, if it is not here, it is somewhere there. And if I am not suffering from malaria, I am suffering from syphilis. So what is this cure, experiment? Disease must be there. So you stop it. Then it is success.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: If there is signboard, "There is no admission," and if somebody enters to create some trouble, he is not a fool? So Kṛṣṇa says, "There is no happiness," and if somebody searches happiness, he is not a fool? That is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness required, that he gets perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. He has no trouble. Kṛṣṇa said, "There is no happiness," and if somebody thinks, "All right, although Kṛṣṇa said, let me try for it," then he is a fool.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Similarly, they say that they can cure disease, but it's impossible.

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? The disease is suffering, and this place is suffering, so where is the question of curing disease? Kṛṣṇa consciousness means intelligence. We are guided by Kṛṣṇa, so there is no trouble. Everything is all right. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And as soon as you make experiment like fools and rascal, then you are doomed.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: ...machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stops—the machine is there—it will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing. So that electricity, either you say soul or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of śāstra. But you have neither śāstra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Just see. This is their cheating. (break) ...everything had been experimented, and they were defeated; still, "science." This is their foolishness. (break) ...telling me that fifty thousand people died by motor accident?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I was telling you that. In America they used to have...

Prabhupāda: One city is finished.

Harikeśa: Fifty thousand?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Each year.

Brahmānanda: It used to be ten thousand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, fifty thousand. That was years ago even.

Prabhupāda: So this is the advancement. Every year one city is finished. This is the advancement.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: As an experiment to show that it was all one, he said that he ate stool.

Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know about stool, but he wanted to eat beef.

Dr. Patel: Meat.

Prabhupāda: Beef.

Dr. Patel: Because he tried to worship God in the form of Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple. "Now I am going to experiment Mohammedan religion, so I want to eat beef." So he said frankly that "Now you have to go away, sir. I cannot allow this." Then he stopped.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: So he experimented as a Christian, as a Muslim, and all, and he said he came to the same truth.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom. He experimented means he was a fool. And a fool makes experiment, one who is fool. One who knows, why he should make experiment?

Dr. Patel: Scientists do make experiments.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are fools. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: You say so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't make any experiment. We don't make any. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is God." That's all. No experiment.

Dr. Patel: If, sir, Edison had not made experiment...

Prabhupāda: Edison, Fedison, all, these are rascals. All these... Edison...

Dr. Patel: You would not have electricity today in the streets.

Prabhupāda: We don't make any experiments.

Dr. Patel: This is a matter of worshiping. He experimented with the method of worshiping.

Prabhupāda: No, experiment means one who is making experiment, he is a fool.

Dr. Patel: I mean the experiment of making..., method of worshiping, sir. You worship this way, other...

Prabhupāda: There is no method. Only method-bhaktya mam abhijanati (BG 18.55). That is method. All rascals. All rascals. Yes, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, sir. The Christians, they go to the temple to worship God in the same way.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say Christian and Hindus, Muslims. Anyone who is not a bhakta, he is a rascal. That's all. That is our conclusion. Therefore we say all rascals. Muḍḥa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Why should we experiment other than that?

Dr. Patel: But that is the way of bhakti, sir. My contention is this, with all my...

Prabhupāda: You cannot make.

Dr. Patel: I submit myself meekly, that...

Prabhupāda: Truth is truth. There is no experiment. Truth is truth. You cannot make experiment. "All right, let us see. The sun may rise this side." Can you do that?

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense? (laughter) That is another rascal. You do not know. Then what is the use of talking nonsense? You do not know wherefrom these ingredients came. That is nonsense. Our answer is, Kṛṣṇa reveals, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "The ingredients coming from Me." Now make experiment how the ingredients are coming.

Devotee (1): But they say, "Where did Kṛṣṇa come from?"

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Go to... By and by, you go to Kṛṣṇa, and when you don't find Kṛṣṇa's cause, that is Kṛṣṇa. Anādir ādiḥ. He is anādi, but He is adi. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.

Harikeśa: Yes, but just think of what we've already done. We've made new skin.

Prabhupāda: What you have done? What you have done? A man... A man is...

Harikeśa: I tell you, we've made new skin. If somebody gets burned we can put new skin on.

Prabhupāda: A man, when he is blind, what you can do? You can simply make some experiment. Then you say, "We tried. We could not do it."

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The experiment with truth (Hindi). What is the experiment with truth? (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: You have taken that tablet for passing more urine?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Daily or..., yes or no.

Prabhupāda: I am passing (laughing).

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but you have got the edema on the leg, and I mean, when...

Prabhupāda: It is cured. That one tablet, two tablets, has cured. So explain what is the experiment with truth.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, what is this experiment with truth?

Dr. Patel: About what?

Prabhupāda: Anything. The world.

Dr. Patel: There are two types of experiments, sir, according to me. I may be wrong and I am open to correction. One experimentation with the crude world; another experiment with your own mind. Which type of experiment we want?

Prabhupāda: No, mind we reject immediately.

Dr. Patel: How?

Prabhupāda: Because it is not truth. It is accepting, it is rejecting.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We can direct our mind towards truth.

Dr. Patel: I did not mean mind is truth. All that is made up of māyā, all that is made up of, I mean, mahatsab(?) and down below, are all falsehood.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, experiment with truth is not experiment with the mind. So what is that truth, or what is that experiment?

Dr. Patel: What is.... First of all, let us know what is mind by experiment.

Prabhupāda: Experiment means to examine whether it is truth or not.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...but, my point is...

Dr. Patel: See, experiment depends upon all that.

Prabhupāda: ...if there is truth, where is the scope of experiment?

Dr. Patel: I mean, that you want to, you want to pick up that point, then you are absolutely right, there is no experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contradiction. If you say "truth," there is no question of experiment. That I..., try to understand. It is contradiction.

Dr. Patel: By all these jñāni-yogīs, I mean you are a bhakti-yogī, but I talk of jñāna-yogīs.

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-yoga is also truth if you follow. Just like jñānāvasthitā tad gatena manasā. So that is truth. But when there is question of experiment, that is not truth. That is my point.

Dr. Patel: Then they are making experiment in an area which is not already known.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that that is not truth. So experiment with truth cannot be; this is contradiction.

Dr. Patel: No, you are right that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But your how..., ask a question puzzling with me. So I...

Prabhupāda: No, I ask you, that how this experiment with truth can be?

Dr. Patel: The experiment with sciences, we are making experiment with biological sciences and abstract, I mean sciences of physics and chemistry, and that those who are truths already, we are trying to honor. We cannot make truths. Truths are there already settled by God. God, we try to find out what is exactly, and how it is being done. But we are not trying to find out who is doing. That is your point. I understand.

Prabhupāda: No. If the truth is there, there is no question of experiment.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: We are experimenting to find out the truth. Truth is there. My house is there, sir, but you may go this way or that way, that way. We are making experiment to go to my house.

Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is the truth.

Dr. Patel: Truth is there, but we do not know the truth. That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Dr. Patel: We are making experiment to..., experiment by this way will lead up to the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means, "experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.

Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...

Dr. Patel: That I quite agree with you, and I become (indistinct). But so far as the method of finding out truth, that I experiment with.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The yogis, they have already found the truth. Jñānāvasthitā tad-gatenā manasa pasyanti yaṁ yoginam. So they have already found out the truth, and they are concentrating. That is not experiment. They have already know.

Dr. Patel: But, I don't say they have experimented on the truth, sir. I think I am not making myself more clear to you. What I meant to say is they have experimented by concentration of the mind to find out the truth, and they realize the truth that way.

Prabhupāda: No. Realize, that's a fact. Now they are acting, by.... Tad-gatena manasā, mind is fixed up in Supersoul, Paramātmā. That is yoga.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is concentrated. Just like our bhakti. Bhakti means we know, "Here is God: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28)." So there is no question of experimenting. Now we are known, we are concentrating how to satisfy. There is no question of experimentation.

Dr. Patel: But the physical scientists' method, chemistry, biology, is, I mean, this physics, they have to experiment in their.... They are nothing but the finding out the truth behind the phenomena, the material phenomena. That is what I mean.

Prabhupāda: Phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra—sometimes here, sometimes there.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All right just to understand? If truth is there, there is no question of experiment. And if experiment is there, that is not truth.

Kīrtanānanda: Perfectly logical.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: That is correct.

Prabhupāda: It is contradiction.

Lokanātha: Their experiments are only speculation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: One wants to experiment, it means they don't know what is truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there is experiment, there is no truth. And if there is truth, there is no experiment.

Kīrtanānanda: One simply accepts the truth.

Prabhupāda: Truth, we accept or not accept: truth is truth. Hm? There is a father. That is a truth. You may not know who is your father, that is another thing. But this is a fact, there is father.

Lokanātha: You have said many times that when mother says "This is your father," you have to accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is truth.

Lokanātha: We cannot go for experimenting other possibilities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of experimenting whether he is my father. You take the truth from the mother, and that's final. (break) ...being more and more convinced, why Kṛṣṇa says na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15)? Huh? Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is within these groups, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. That is being more and more confirmed.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, yes. Therefore it begins in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). The beginning is truth. Satyam paraṁ dhīmahi. There is no question of experiment. It is not this book, Bhāgavata, is an experiment to find out. It is beginning from the truth. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi.

Lokanātha: What is sādhana-bhakti?

Prabhupāda: Sādhana-bhakti is practice. Truth is there, but how to be intimately connected with truth, that is sādhana.

Lokanātha: So sometimes we say to karmīs that "Why don't you make an experiment, just try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, make an experiment, and you will realize it."

Prabhupāda: Because he does not know; therefore we suggest experiment. He does not know.

Lokanātha: So we ask him to perform the...

Prabhupāda: Ah, that means, my proposition is that one who does not know, for him experiment. One who knows, there is no experiment.

Lokanātha: But there is...

Prabhupāda: You are asking, requesting to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, but this is not experiment for me, it is experiment for him. He does not know; therefore you are suggesting, "You do like this, and you will understand."

Jagat-puruṣa: They are conditioned to make experiments.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagat-puruṣa: So they can dovetail that conditioning.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of experimenting, but he does not know, he is given chance, "All right, try like this." But truth is there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (to passerby) Oh, the water has gone this way. (Hindi conversation about the tide)

Śrīdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, people can understand that the truth is already there, but they can't understand how by meditating on one particular person or thing, all other truths automatically become realized. They want to experiment to find out what is the unlimited truth.

Prabhupāda: Let them experiment. Because he does not know the truth perfectly well.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are some animals, they do not actually touch the egg-birds. Or the, I think, what is called, tortoise. They simply concentrate, and the egg comes into being.

Lokanātha: If you hear the truth, there is no need to make an experiment at all. Isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is perfect experiment.

Lokanātha: That is, that happens with full śraddhā. When there is unflinching faith, he will not go for making the experiment.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: No. They're seeking—the same example—the enjoyable thing, on the platform of shell of the coconut, fibers of the coconut. They do not know that within the shell, within the fiber, there is coconut. That they do not know. You said two sides. But they do not know the other side. They only know the one side, the body. There will be synthesis when there are two. But they have no two. They simply one subject matter, the body, and that is useless struggle. It is just like Māyāvādīs. Neti neti: "Not this, not this. Not this, not this." Therefore they advocate revolution, that something is going on for some days; again revolution. That means "Not this." Neti neti. The experiment says.... Experiment. Everyone is doing that. They are trying to derive happiness through some system or idea of adjustment, but it becomes spoiled and useless after some time. Therefore they say another revolution required.

Harikeśa: In the dictionary, that, the definition of experiment was you try it and see if it works.

Prabhupāda: But if it is not perfect, how it will work?

Harikeśa: Not possible.

Prabhupāda: And experiment means, those who are making experiment, they do not know where is the perfect thing. The same example, that if you make experiment about understanding who is your father, it will all fail. How long you'll go on inquiring, ask any old man, "Sir, are you my father?" Or will this process be successful at any time? Without consulting your mother, if you simply go on asking all old men, "Sir, are you my father?" And if somebody falsely says, "Yes, I am your father," is that successful inquiry? This is going on.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: But that.... Experimental philosophy means rascaldom. You do not know actually what is the fact. Then you make experiment. That means you are rascal.

Harikeśa: I meant that this thesis, antithesis...

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Make an experiment." He says the fact: asmin dehe dehinaḥ. "The proprietor of the body is within this body." There is no question of experimenting.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, then take it as thesis.

Harikeśa: Thesis. So therefore it's an experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not experiment. It is to be subjected to discussion. That is not experiment. Because the fact is there. Now whether it is fact, that you have to discuss.

Harikeśa: So this experimental knowledge should be strictly kept in the scientific realm. You know, discussion...? Because you asked me before to write on...

Prabhupāda: The scientific knowledge is already there, but as you do not accept it, then the question of discussion, or, you say, experiment, can come. The truth is already there. Just like the sun is the truth, is there. Everyone knows. Now somebody says "There is no light," and somebody says "There is light." Now it has to be discussed.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real science.

Harikeśa: So his method is the method of speculation.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Harikeśa: First, there's the idea; the second, there's the real fact; and the third, there's the synthesis between the two.

Prabhupāda: They're all theories. The same experiment. To find out who is my father.

Harikeśa: All these guys are very dry.

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: You cannot imagine by seeing a building that it is a school. You cannot imagine that. That is foolishness.

Harikeśa: But all the people inside, they are also imagining that it's a school.

Prabhupāda: So that is all...

Acyutānanda: Just like if there is a pen. If I use it to kill someone, it is a weapon. If I use it to mix something, it is an instrument. If I use it to write with, then it's a pen. So it is not a pen. It is not a weapon. It is my idea that I impose on the object that makes it what it is.

Prabhupāda: No. No. Your idea, that is foolishness. But you learn from a teacher that this is pen; this is not a weapon. You have to learn it. If you don't learn it, then you will go on making experiment whether it is pen or it is weapon or it is this or that. Go on. But it will never come to any conclusion.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means, whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.

Pañca-draviḍa: They only accept...

Prabhupāda: That is not scientist, that he..., "maybe, perhaps..." That is not scientist.

Pañca-draviḍa: Well, they only accept what they can confirm by experimentation.

Prabhupāda: That means their experiment is not perfect. Their observation is not perfect-vague idea. So how he can become a scientist? That is no scientist.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, if they actually progressing, they will have to come to that point—that is natural—where, placing your service, you can serve everyone. That is the right conclusion. But we have got that right conclusion. If you take from us you can make immediately. But if you want to wait by your research work, then you can waste your time. But you have to come to this point. That is a fact. Just like you have to give food to the mouth. If you do not know, out of rascaldom you experiment here, you experiment here, you experiment here, you experiment.... There are so many holes. You go on experimenting, and waste your time. But unless you come to this point, that "Food has to be supplied here," your all attempt will be failure. That you have to tell them. And because you cannot supersede nature's way. Nature's way is "The food must go through here." You cannot change it. You are not above nature.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that, they cannot do it. They cannot make any dull matter moving by chemical combination. Although they cannot do it, still they talk of it. That is another foolishness. We say that you.... Egg, everyone can see some white matter, some yellow matter, and some covering, plasticlike. So a chemical, mostly chemicals are white. So combine the chemicals and make white and cover it with plastic and give it to the incubator. Why the chicken is not coming? Hm? And why they talk nonsense that it is a chemical combination? They cannot experiment it, neither they can do it, and still they'll talk nonsense. What do you think?

Interviewer: What do I think?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this nonsense talking that chemical combination, there is life. Why don't you do it?

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There is only one way. Just like the spirit soul is within you and within me. Your skin may be white, my skin may be colored, but within, the spirit soul, what is there in you, that is in me also. There is not change on account of the body. Therefore to understand that spirit soul, there is only one way. There is no second way. Because it is not experimental; it is already there. If it is based on experiment and observation, then my experiment, your experiment may be different. But it is a fact that the soul is there, and as soon as the soul is gone from the body, the body is a dead lump of matter. That you have to understand. And any gentleman, any sensible man can understand it, that soul is there although we are changing body. Just like you were a child. That's a fact. But where is that child's body? Now your body's different.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Mother says, "No, you have got your father." Or she can show, "Here is your father." So you cannot understand the father by your research work. You have to take the knowledge from the mother, authority. There is no other way. You cannot make any experiment or research knowledge who is father. That is not possible. You'll never understand who is father. You have to take the authority of the Vedas to understand what is God, or what is the supreme father. And here in the Bhagavad-gītā the supreme father personally is coming and teaching you, "I am the father." So what is the objection to accepting Him? All the ācāryas have accepted, as you spoke of the ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted. So what is my objection? That means I am defying all the ācāryas.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty, Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Does Kṛṣṇa say anything extraordinary that we cannot perform? Nothing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things: "You just think of Me always-man-manā. You just become My devotee, worship Me and offer your obeisances unto Me." Four things. Where is the difficulty? Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma. Where is the loss? Is there any loss? Is there any tax if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Just make an experiment and see the result. There is no loss, there is no tax, there is no botheration. Why don't you do it? Not at all difficult. If you compare with other system, this is the easiest. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. The Gosvāmīs did. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. They taught us how to do it. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "They say," but what is the practical? They say all, as I repeatedly, pagale ke na bole chakole ke na khai (indistinct). A madman, what does he not say, and a goat, what does he not eat? So they are all madmen. (laughter) They can say all everything.

Devotee (1): They are experimenting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with genes now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): You say that we are losing the qualities of memory, strength, but they are experimenting where they can isolate genes of persons who have those qualities and put on...

Prabhupāda: But we have to see actually what is happening.

Devotee (4): They are also transplanting livers and hearts, increasing the duration of life.

Prabhupāda: So whatever they may do, things will happen like this. This is a fact. Can they increase the duration of life? People, can they make any scientific discovery that no man will die less than hundred years? Is there any such discovery?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: As I have already explained. It is not the man and woman sex creation. The life comes from outside. The solution was there, but life comes out. The same example. The solution of man and woman is there, but life must come there. Then there will be pregnancy. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Find out this, Third Canto. (pause)

Rūpānuga: After this experiment, Śrīla Prabhupāda, scientists reinterpreted the experiment to mean an entirely different thing. Can you explain that, Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu, How they made it seem the opposite of what Pasteur intended?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there are two interpretations. One is saying that give enough length of time, long time period in this Pasteur's experiment, then they are proposing that something is bound to happen.

Prabhupāda: The same thing—you are giving more time, and here it is less time. But more time means you are expecting something to come. That is our answer. Here you are giving more time when the situation is not favorable. So more time means when the situation will be favorable the life will come from outside. That is our answer. Here the situation is favorable, the life has come immediately. But you are waiting. Waiting means you are waiting, the life coming from outside, not this solution will... Is it not? Waiting means you are just waiting for the favorable situation, to receive.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That we do not take care of atoms, we take gross estimation. Must be atomic differences. Just like gold and mercury, little atomic difference. And it is suggested that tin, copper, and mercury, proportionately mixed it will become gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once you told me that in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can do that experiment. Then our poverty will be... (laughter) It is fact. There are many yogis, they prepare gold by drinking mercury. They drink mercury, overnight, next morning they pass urine and dip copper coins in it. And then after some time the copper coins put into the fire, it becomes gold.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All mistaken. Where is the difference, then how do you experiment in the biological class by dissecting animal body? What is the difference in the composition of social construction, I er, bodily construction. You have to suffer. That's why I have said, there must be (indistinct). The same principle is there. Otherwise how the mosquito fly like this and...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a mosquito but they...

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot make mosquito. They can make 747.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is their kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, Dr. Frog. But the fact is, any condition of material existence, there is possibility of living entity there. Sarva-ga, sthāṇur, acalo'yaṁ sarva-ga. Everywhere there is living entity. It is impossible to conclude that on other planets there is no living entity. It is not possible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it possible to do some experiments?

Prabhupāda: You experiment, you see a dead body. It is obnoxious smelling, but living entities coming.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, to show that matter is generated by life, we want to do some experiment.

Prabhupāda: That is there. Every day we are experiencing, huh? Just the same seed and the living entity comes and it becomes a tree and it grows, big tree, huge body. And as soon as it is dead, the body is not increasing. This is experiment. Everything is coming from life. Kṛṣṇa says, He's the supreme life, He says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). He's the origin of everything, both matter and life, everything. Matter also coming from life, life is also coming from life.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: See..., you cannot see your father, that does not means there is no father who begot you. That is no... They cannot see, do they say like that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot see that, so they cannot prove by experiment, so...

Prabhupāda: What experiment?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just from experience also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They want to go and see for themselves, so they say they have gone to the moon planet, and they say we have not found life.

Prabhupāda: We say you have not gone. I have not seen you, that you have gone there; you say only. How can I believe?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, this is one way of studying, but when you have studied the chemicals, combine them and bring a human life. Science means observation and experiment. Simply observing, analyzing that it is a combination of chemi..., that is not perfect science. When you... This is theory. When you practically bring into action, that is called practical... What is called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Experimentation?

Prabhupāda: No, no, in science there are two con..., theoretical and practical. So theoretical knowledge is no perfect. When you bring it in practical action, then it is science. In the scientific laboratory, they do not simply theorize; they test it in the laboratory. That is science. If you cannot test it by combination of the chemicals which you have analyzed in your..., then it is failure, is it not?

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: There was one thing I was wondering a little bit. Is the possibility of..., is it possible of making some experiments which would tend to indicate that life is not material? And this might be appealing to some of the people with scientific education, because they are used to such things, experiments.

Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.

Rūpānuga: We were having a meeting with the other scientists, and they were challenging you. They were saying, "Show us one experiment. Show us one experiment!" That's the way they are.

Prabhupāda: There are so many experiments.

Sadāpūta: We were wondering... We knew that, for example, Jagadisha Chandra Bose did some experiments indicating plants having consciousness. We were wondering if some things of that kind might be of some use.

Prabhupāda: So in the Calcutta there is Bose Institute, you can go and see. They have got all machine, how the plants are feeling. Everything is there.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Let them come one by one. If they come one at a time, they will sit down. They'll not try to go away. But if they come, see first too many, and go away, then another comes. Then it will be nice interview.

Rāmeśvara: I see. There must be management.

Hari-śauri: And the devotees can come in the morning for class.

Prabhupāda: That's right. Try this experiment.

Rāmeśvara: Anything that we can do to assist you in the translating work is the best service...

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientists. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not, hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?

Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.

Prabhupāda: Why few years? Rascaldom. Dr. Chicken is doing in five days, so why you enjoy this title? You give up. You be ashamed. You are shameless, therefore you are talking all this nonsense. You have no human sense also.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Twenty years he tried, it was failure.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It was actually a very frank article, and after I read it...

Prabhupāda: Who wrote it?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Somebody by the name of Mehta. He was obviously a very great scholar, because this magazine is very first-class magazine. It's not a cheap magazine, and it was written very nicely. Somebody by the name of Mehta. He's a Dr. Mehta. In the New Yorker magazine, New Yorker.

Prabhupāda: He has written one book, My Experiment With Truth, that truth is truth, but it is very (indistinct) thing. That means he did not know what is truth. (long pause-child says "haribol") He says "Haribol"?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The observation and experiment. Simply observing is not science. And observing, this chemical, this chemical is being combined, then it can be... First of all, observation. But when you put into, what is called, experiment, and practically show, then it is... They say that life is generated by combination of chemicals. So now show me by experiment, then it is science. Otherwise it is nonsense. The things are going on like this. They are suggesting that life is combination of chemical, but when you ask them to show it by experiment, "Wait for millions of years." This is not science, this is rascaldom. It is just like postdated check. If I give you check for three hundred years dated back, will you accept? Million dollars, but the date is twenty-three, not nineteen hundred, twenty hundred, but twenty-three hundred. Will you accept that check? I can say, "By that time I'll get this money and deposit the bank. You take the check." Will you accept it?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won't... This is obstinacy. Dog's mentality. The father has come personally. Now we have experimented everything—karma, jñāna, yoga, this, that, all nonsense. "Now I say..." It is said most confidential. Sarva-guhyatamam. "Better give up this job. Surrender to Me, come back to Me." So sanction was there, certainly. Without sanction they cannot do it. God created this. That is sanction. You wanted material world to enjoy. "All right, do it, here is material world. Take as much petrol as you like and drive motorcar and create accident, do, go on. But now I am giving you good advice, that give up this business, come back to Me." This is sanction. Reluctant, the same example. I did not like that child to touch the fan, but he would insist. "All right, make an experiment." And when he got the experience, next time, ask him, "Now do it?" "No." This is going on. The sanction, without sanction there is no possibility. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam—that is mattaḥ, "from Me." But he's insisting, so therefore sanction—"All right, let him experiment." That independence God never touches. So he has got independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63).

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: One cooperation is that we can bring immediately a small vans or buses so that we can go village to village, town to town. If I get government permit then... Because here the buses are very costly, and at the same time they are not very good. But foreign buses... India hasn't got to pay anything but simply let us have and work in India. This much facility wanted. Besides that, our men, they are coming, spending ten thousand rupees and after three months or six months, "Get out, get out, get out." And Indians are not joining. Indians are not so sacrificing. But these boys they have sacrificed everything. I am sure if some cooperation is coming from the government I can very soon change the face of India. But I am not getting any facilities. We have experimented in Bengal, and here also, he is also going, saṅkīrtana party. But he could not do it in a large scale for want of facilities.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They-fresh fish—they smear with turmeric and salt and keep it in the sunshine and they dry it. And of course this fish it has no, what is it taste. (laughter) But they keep it. (aside) Bring me little water. (Bengali and Hindi) This I want to introduce, let them be satisfied whatever they can produce themselves locally. What is that, little cloth, little food? Any man can produce these things. There is no difficulty at all. They must agree to this simple life. Otherwise, everywhere you can produce your own food and cloth and cottage. If possible you can construct big buildings. There is no need. And they should be satisfied, happy with Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful. This I want to introduce now, anywhere. And it is practical. It is not something bogus. It is... We have already experimented. By God's grace we can produce everything from the lands, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī? You can get everything.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: People applauded. This is foolishness. They do not know how to act. Just like if you pour water on the tree, then it is accepted that you are pouring water on the tree but that is not the process. The process is to pour water on the root of the tree. Practically we... You can make an experiment. Just like here is a tree. You don't pour water on the root but pour water on the leaves. Then it will dry in due course of time. It will not be effective. But if you pour water on the root, the water will go everywhere. So the whole thing is just like a tree. God is the origin of everything. He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Therefore He is the root. So if you pour water in the root, then the water is distributed everywhere.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then be beaten with shoes. When you're successful, then say. Otherwise, I shall beat you with shoes. That's all. That is your punishment. You have not come to the experimental stage, and you are talking, "This is science." Science is experiment and observation. Unless the experiment is practical, practical science... It will be accepted as science when the experiment is successful. Not before that. That is scientific method. First of all, observe. It may be happening like this. But that "maybe" should be confirmed by experiment. Then it is science. Even in colleges there is practical examination. Theoretical and practical. So unless... "We are trying." Everyone will say, "I am trying." "I am trying to become millionaire." When you become millionaire, then say that you are millionaire. You are trying for becoming millionaire and you say, "I am millionaire." What is this nonsense?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are making... Therefore I was saying... The Russians, they have made a propaganda to show, but nobody purchases their literature. Nobody purchases, either educated or uneducated. Maybe few interested. But they are making vigorous propaganda to spread their literature. They have been unsuccessful.

Rāmeśvara: No one believes it. Whatever they write, no one believes that it is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their opening a showroom is one of the item of their propaganda. But we cannot make that, make an experiment. No, that is not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. Alta it is called. And gumta (?). Somebody is giving massage. Lalitā Didi. Rayarāma dāsa's guru-bhai. This Rāma dāsa's, I have... "Nitāi gaura rādhe śyāma." This Rāma dāsa and that Lalitā, they're Godbrothers. So many... And amongst them there was fight—"You said that you have done this wrong," "You said you have done this wrong." But both of them are dead and gone. There are so many that, Sakhībhekhī. All women. Sometimes he—I have heard all this—he will observe the menstrual period. (laughter) To laugh or lament? "He's in menstrual period." This Ramakrishna did. He was also, because Jagamati experimented.

Hari-śauri: Oh, he became a woman sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes. And there was menstrual, menstruation period. He became so perfect, there was menstruation. (laughter) This rascal Ramakrishna did it. And he was going to make experiment of the Muhammadan realization by eating...

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No, it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.

Gurukṛpā: What they do now is... What they've been doing is they have all these pills, and they give them to people to experiment, to see what the reaction is.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students—they have learned new, new words—and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may pay them for false propaganda.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: If you need... If you have one infection in America, you know what you need—some penicillin, something to kill the infection. But the doctor will have to make all sorts of experiments to tell you what you already know.

Prabhupāda: "You first of all give so much blood. So much give me, and then..."

Gurukṛpā: Yes. And charge you fifty dollars.

Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.

Satsvarūpa: They can't do it, but then, when we say, "Rains will come by yajña," they'll say "No."

Prabhupāda: No, that is... You don't believe it, but here is the... That means you do not believe in God. Why don't you make an experiment? Ask everybody to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, kīrtana. As soon as you say you don't believe, then you don't believe in God, "God says." That is your disease. I can give you so many points. You have to elaborate it.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect, because you have prepared. You are rascal; your instrument is rascal. How a rascal can manufacture something perfect? How it is possible? Hm? Anything we attempt to get, knowledge, is imperfect. Only perfect knowledge is when you get it through the perfect person. The same example: you cannot make experiment or speculation who is your father. The only right information—from your mother, that's all. Finish. Otherwise, everything speculation. How you'll rightly understand your father? Except the mother's statement, what is the next alternative? Hm? Is there any?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. All charges are replied in these books. So you read these books and argue on this. Finish this. Then give judgment. Make this. Make a firm. Bring all these eighty-four books. That is legal! From law point, it is legal. What I have to say, you have to hear. So we have said everything there.

Gargamuni: Instead of spending for these lawyers, let us bring your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Gargamuni: That is the testimony.

Prabhupāda: And read them and argue on them. "Finish this argument; then give the judgment." Why don't you do it? Make an experiment?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "nonphysical." Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ, nainaṁ śoṣayati āpaḥ (BG 2.23). Everything, five elements, material... It has nothing to do with these five elements, clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is beyond this. Here whatever you find is kṣitir āpaḥ tejaḥ marud vyomā: earth, water, air, fire. That's all. But beyond that, it is not physical. And at last, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Everything is there. So I was confident in the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore I strongly stressed, "This is all wrong." I believed completely in the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. I never experimented. But I know what Kṛṣṇa says is completely right.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among the professors, see, there is a question, this logical positivism, saying that something, life, is beyond experimental knowledge. Then he said according to logical positivism, whatever we cannot see or whatever we cannot find out by experiment is not science.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not science. That I am always speaking, that science means not to observe but to make experiment. And that is science, observation and experiment. If you cannot make experiment, it is all logic. Therefore they say, "theory, theory." The Darwin is careful. He says, "theory." He doesn't say, "science," because he knows that he is talking all nonsense. So this is "theory."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also say that you cannot prove this ātmā by experiment.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, then it is not science. You cannot prove; then why do you say it can be made by chemical combination.

Satsvarūpa: He's saying that they say our position is we can't prove. We can't prove our...

Prabhupāda: No, we can prove. Just that... Our argument is that this is beyond our experimental. Therefore you have to hear from the authority. That is our proof. Just like you cannot make an experiment who is your father, but you have to hear from your mother. That is the only way. There is no second alternative.

Satsvarūpa: Śabda-pramāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Śabda-pramāṇa. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is another very strange statement in this regard saying that though we cannot prove something by experiment, but sometimes it is convenient to assume that way.

Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness. How you assume?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good argument, that these rascals have never produced life, and why do they say like that? It's good argument because they say that "We have not seen; therefore we don't believe." They're experimental. But you have not experimented. Why you push? Why you brainwash my brain?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: According to this logical positivism, you can say that it is convenient to say that man has arisen from apes, but that is not the truth.

Prabhupāda: There is no experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's no experiment, but it is convenient to assume according to this logic, but that's not a fact.

Prabhupāda: But why the modern ape is not producing any human being?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Here is a lump of matter, some metal. It has been done by a living being; it is worked by living being; then it is working. And what is the value? Not even two paisa.

Hari-śauri: When they do their experiments in the laboratories they have to mix the chemicals themselves.

Prabhupāda: Everything is done by a living being. There must be touch by the living. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). He is... Understand this. He is manipulating this inferior material. It has not come automatically. There's brain. Brain means intelligence, human being. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate ja... Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Always ready. That will clear my urine. That I have experimented. And I don't require that exacting tablet. That tablet by chemical reaction exacts. And when there is no urine, it exacts blood.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what's wrong with these modern medicines. They work mechanically. They don't take consideration of the particular conditions.

Prabhupāda: But this miśri water, ḍāb water, that is natural. So you keep in stock ḍāb water, miśri water always. Our, this scientific program is giving me extra strength to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And this opening hospital, that is not Vedic civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: That is Western idea. "Give him some relief." Modern.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Most of the time, instead of relieving, they make things even more difficult.

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know. Nowadays they make experiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I got the feeling that that gentleman yesterday was experimenting...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...or guessing. Have you read the book of Satsvarūpa Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: No. You have read?

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No fire pot required. Simply gather together and set fire. That smoke is fire. It will increase. Just in a plate you can do it. This plate, the washing plate, that will do. It can contain four, five big kandi. That is sufficient.

Upendra: Rice, ḍāl and laktha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Laktha. You can make experiment.

Upendra: Yes. I would like that. Sometimes we might find ourselves having to walk in...

Prabhupāda: First of all purchase some kandi. And keep it in corners of... In this veranda keep it.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So earthen pot is so nice. Jagannātha Purī, they cook it in earthen pot and throw it away. It is very palatable. You can try an earthen pot.

Upendra: Yes. (aside:) I will make rice, ḍāl, and preparation called laktha, bread balls that go around a cow dung fire, in an earthen pot.

Prabhupāda: You can begin experiment, one, two, three, and become perfect.

Upendra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is very digestive, very palatable and suitable for me, this kind of food. Yes. It will automatically increase appetite. It is so nice.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're rascals. There's no other answer. Only a rascal will go on maintaining that we can create life and they never have.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting Nobel Prize. Just see. Such rascals. And we say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam. This is inferior and that is superior. So how you can make superior with inferior ingredients?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why you are trying to adjust Pacific Ocean? Pacific Ocean, any ocean, it is just like kūpa-maṇḍūka. It is very big for you, but you are a very teeny identity. Take the universe. What is the Pacific? Is it not a drop. There are so many Pacific Oceans floating in the sky. Everything is acintya. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). This is acintya. So acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. You cannot make an experiment or see it. Take some information from the authority and be satisfied. With your limited knowledge, if you want to bring it to experiment, that is not possible. That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) What work he gives? (Bengali)

Gaura-govinda: Now we'll begin construction. Our architect-engineer, Samjata, was there. He was making plans, but unfortunately he passed away the last 23rd. So...

Prabhupāda: What happened?

Gaura-govinda: He suffered from fever. He had some fever, high fever. So he fell unconscious. The doctor came and gave some medicine. The fever was checked, but he gave some high-power medicines that affected his brain, and so he couldn't speak. He just collapsed and stayed still. We came to the hospital that night. Doctor tried his best. He gave saline and oxygen. He stayed the whole night, but at the daybreak he passed away, when the morning came, just on the morning, 23rd morning. It was ekādaśī day. That day he passed away. The day Bhāgavata reached. The very moment Bhāgavata reached there, he passed away.

Prabhupāda: Doctor gives treatment, not reliable. They make experiment.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Make an experiment. Then we shall decide.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Make an experiment. Then we shall decide."

Jayapatākā: What is that experiment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā's asking what that experiment is, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana parikrama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Vṛndāvana parikrama."

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, does it mean with Your Divine Grace, or we should go alone first and see?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: Does it mean that Your Divine Grace will come on the experiment, or we should go without Your Divine Grace and experiment?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jayapatākā: See if the road is very rough, if the road is passable by bullock cart the whole way.

Prabhupāda: Bullock cart is not smooth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bullock cart is not smooth. How would you propose that we go, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Come, let us take the risk.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Come, let us take the risk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go anyway. Let us take the risk.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: As your disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're all neophytes. We don't know what is right and what is wrong. But at the same time we feel that we're very hopeful that you'll get strength slowly and slowly. And this morning you were telling us that you get a little strength, so we are hoping every day that "Prabhupāda will gain even stronger and be with us for many more years." So we are taking advice from kavirāja that you take milk more and more, day by day, so that Prabhupāda will get stronger. Like kavirāja is suggesting that when Your Divine Grace gets stronger, he'll go with you in the parikrama, he will accompany you.

Prabhupāda: So let us make experiment in Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you are hiring for how many days?

Lokanātha: This is only for one day it is hired now, but we could continue to hire the same cart for several more days by paying extra money.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Our experiment...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It certainly is an experiment. Of course, we always like experiments to be successful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where he'll go?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Where will we go? We thought tomorrow to go around the parikrama path.

Prabhupāda: Which parikrama path?

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing?

Jayādvaita: One thing is that in the Gosvāmī temples they have govardhana-śilā. That's also Govardhana.

Haṁsadūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The main concern of the devotees is that whether you will be able to survive such an experiment. But before, you said that you felt that such a parikrama would actually cure you. You said that. So your vision is transcendental, because you are the spiritual master. You're a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you say that it will cure you and that it will be beneficial for you, then we have to carry out that..., whatever you desire. We do not know. We're just on the mundane platform.

Prabhupāda: One-day experiment. It is for one day?

Lokanātha: We have hired it for one day.

Prabhupāda: Rest assured. I will not die in one day.

Haṁsadūta: So we should go to Govardhana? Because tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we shall make our cooking there and...

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: You have assured us that in one day you're not going to die, and you want to make this experiment, so we should do it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Haṁsadūta: We'll do it with great enthusiasm. Your Divine Grace is infallible. So if you say that it will help and cure you, then that must be a fact. You've never been wrong about anything, Prabhupāda, so you must be right this time also.

Prabhupāda: So let us make experiment. Don't hesitate.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That you have experience. I have no experience.

Lokanātha: Maybe you sent me to experience this bullock cart program so that you could...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: ...in future go on bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: For me it is experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should also request kavirāja to come along?

Prabhupāda: Invite him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He can come in the van.

Pañca-draviḍa: Then it is all decided. You want to take some rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Haṁsadūta: Can we have some kīrtana, Prabhupāda? (kīrtana)

Page Title:Experiment (Conversations)
Compiler:Matea
Created:19 of Oct, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=129, Let=0
No. of Quotes:129