Exhibit (Conversations)

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1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Now Kali is depicted as a male. As male?

Prabhupāda: As male, yes.

Hayagrīva: Because sometimes I know he's depicted as female.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Male, his feature black, and dressed like a king. Black means ignorance. And similarly the scene is also blackish.

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These things should be ascertained(?). Then, it is mentioned there, exhibit illicit sex, slaughterhouse, intoxication, gambling. Then the third scene is very nice. Rāsa dance.

Hayagrīva: Uh... Just before this... I'm not going to make this I don't believe either eastern or western, but I think this can apply for the whole world in the sense that the names may be Indian names, but I think the exhibition of the assembly of Kali and his consort sin and the exhibition of illicit sex and slaughterhouse, this can all be, it can be from western type prototype.

Prabhupāda: That may be. No, why should you... It may be sometimes misunderstood that western people are only under the influence of Kali. Because the world is under the influence of Kali. Not that in your country only this intoxication, illicit sex. No, everywhere it is.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Expansion is direct, and incarnation is indirect. When expansion of expansion is accepted, that is called kalā, incarnation, avatāra, kalā. So Advaita is not direct. The example is given in Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you get one candle kindled from the first candle, another from the second, another from the third. So similarly, either expansion or incarnation, they are all candles. The original candle is Kṛṣṇa. It is not that expansion of expansion is less powerful. The candle power is the same either origin or expansion or expansion of the expansion. It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world. And Kṛṣṇa, being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He exhibited that He's above any principle of the material world. He's free to act any way He likes. Otherwise what is the meaning... Means full-fledged manifestation of God. Lord Rāma, He married only one, Sītā. And when Sītā was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, He never married again. Or when Sītā was sent to the forest for public opinion, He never married again.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say he is more pious than that man who has made so much charity?" The śāstra says, "Yes. Yes." Why? That is also explained in the Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That activity is considered to be the highest pious activity. The Bhāgavata does not say what kind of activity. "That activity which leads one to be a devotee of the Lord." That activity is not limited. Any activity that makes one progressing for realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is higher, the highest pious activity. That is the description. Just as military art is not a very pious activity, killing art. But because the killing art exhibited by Arjuna was leading him to this platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, so that became the highest pious activity. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro... We have to see whether by his activity he's gaining strength in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is highest. It doesn't matter whether it is photography or business or painting or cooking. It doesn't matter. Whether Kṛṣṇa is being satisfied by his activities? Just like you are engaged in different activities. But as soon as you bring your money and engage in the Society's cause, oh, I am very gratified. I do not inquire... Of course, we do not encourage impious activity. That is not the meaning. But phalena paricīyate. Because you offer the result of your activities to Kṛṣṇa, that becomes pious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). So that is the standard of pious activity. Now, this is also pious activity, heeding before teacher. That if by satisfying the poor teachers one becomes pious, how much pious he is who is trying to satisfy the supreme teacher, Kṛṣṇa. He's also a living creature. He's also individual person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). (pause) So have we finished our walking? Not yet?

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: ...from where everything emanates. He is the source of all life. Whatever we see, it is in the Absolute Truth. All these universes, all these planets, all the suns and moons, the sky, and everything, they have come from the original source, the Absolute Truth. Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited? So the theory, nonviolence... Nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and Arjuna was denying to fight but Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight. So the fighting was good because it was the will of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Therefore at the end of understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna agreed, "Yes, I shall fight." So fighting for the matter of executing the desire of the supreme will is also absolute. It is not different from Absolute Truth. So sometimes it is... Just like we sometimes see mock-fighting, because that fighting spirit is there. The father and son, the little son is fighting with the father. That is not fighting, but the mock fight. But the fighting spirit is there. You cannot deny it. Similarly, the fighting spirit is there. Sometimes that is exhibited by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He wanted to exhibit such fighting spirit, so who will fight with Him? Ordinary living being cannot fight with the Supreme Lord.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us that when fighting should be taken. Fighting is not very good thing, but if there is necessity... Just like in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was organized by two rival parties. One party was pious; another party was impious. So Kṛṣṇa took side of Arjuna, and he was victorious. That is the history of Kurukṣetra fight. So the Lord wanted to exhibit His fighting spirit. And who will fight with Him? Therefore two of His devotees were resigned that they should go in the material world and fight with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no question of fighting. There is no enmity. Everyone accepts the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the protector, as the master, as the Lord, and they serve faithfully. So there is no question of fighting. In the material world everyone wants to be the lord, everyone wants to be God. So therefore there is fight. The fighting here takes place because everyone wants to lord it over the material nature. So there is difference of interest. I want to be lord, you want to be lord: now there must be fight. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is one Lord and all others servitors. Therefore there is peace.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: If you pay thirty-five dollars to a person, he'll give you a mantra and you become within six months God. This is very nice statement and people will follow. Thousands and thousands will follow. But if you say, "Oh, you have to undergo much austerity, penance, regulation and tapasya," "Oh, this is botheration. We shall enjoy material life, and the same time become God." So these cheap things are exhibited by the demons. And when a demon is born, the natural disturbances are there. When there are natural disturbances, we must know that there is some demonic principle. That is stated in all Vedic scriptures. At the present moment, because we are increasing daily demonic principles, or demonic population is increasing, we are meeting with so many disturbances. So when these two demons, playing the part of demons, they also took birth on this planet, there were so many disturbances and this picture is there, that so many disturbances are being created at the time of their birth. Next picture? Ah. So when the demons became full-fledged human being, got this body... Demons and... There are two classes of men. One is called demon, and other is called demigod, or god. The demigod and the... The difference between demons and demigods is that the demigods, they are also human beings, but they obey the Supreme Personality of Godhead and they believe in the supremacy of the Supreme Lord. But the demons, they do not believe in the existence of God or they obey the supremacy of the Lord. That is the difference between demons and demigods. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, in other scriptures also, you'll find, dvau bhūta-sargau loke 'smin daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two classes of men. Men means living entities. Either in this planet or any other planet. But in this planet the demons, number of demons, are great, not in other planets. So there are two classes of men. One class is called demon, and other classes are god, or demigod. And what is the difference between them? Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ. The godly persons, who are devoted to the Lord, they are called demigods. And asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Asura means demons. They are just opposite number.

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So your question, Rukmiṇī's question, Lord Caitanya's opulence... There are six kinds of opulences: richness, then fame, strength, influence, beauty, education and renunciation. So He exhibited all these six. He was very beautiful; therefore His name is Gaurasundara. Very beautiful-tall and stout and strong. There was no comparison of His beauty at that time, He was so beautiful, fair complexion. This time He did not appear in black complexion because people after fair complexion. So... And son of a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, and very highly educated. His scholarly manifestation you'll find in the explanation of one verse:

ātmārāmāś ca munayo

nirgranthā apy urukrame

kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim

ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ

This verse was twice explained, two times explained: once before Sanatāna Gosvāmī and once before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was considered at that time to be the greatest learned man in India. At that time nyāya-śāstra, logic, amongst the learned scholar logic is the greatest weapon to get victory over His opponent. So learned scholar is always a very learned scholar in logic, nyāya-śāstra. So this logic was taught in Bihar, Dharvanga. India, in different parts of India, different kinds of education was imparted. In Benares, the Mayavāda philosophy was very prominent. In Dharvanga, logic was very prominent. In Navadvīpa, philosophy was very prominent, and nyāya also.

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees. The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. There are many instances of great yogis in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just like Durvāsā Muni. He wanted to show his power to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. That's a very nice story. I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing." In Benares in India there was a yogi. His business was anyone who will go there, he immediately produced two or four rasagullās and offer him. And many hundreds and thousands of educated men became his disciple simply for the matter, rasagullā, which is only four annas worth. So people want to see this jugglery. And those who want following some or some material achievement, they want to show... Actually it is a fact. Suppose if I could manufacture rasagullās by some mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, oh, thousands of people will come immediately. You see? People want to see me, and those persons who want to have a cheap following, they want to show such jugglery. But a devotee sees... (break) ...is not of that mentality. They will simply, humble servant. They are satisfied by serving the Lord. That is devotee's position. So your statement, that "Why one should bother with these things?" That's a very nice proposal. Why? There is no necessity. Suppose if I can manufacture some rasagullā, what is the worth of this rasagullā? Oh, we can, if we spend ten cents, we can make it. So why shall I waste my energy for manufacturing rasagullā in the yoga system? Actually, therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that the perfection of, real perfection of yoga, the first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is first-class. He is recommended.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always..." He never says that first-class yogi is he who can show this jugglery. No. That is not recommended. Actually, and the yoga practice begins, samādhi. Real yoga practice is, after controlling the senses, the next stage is samādhi, concentrate the mind, focus the mind on Viṣṇu always. Always thinking of Viṣṇu, always seeing Viṣṇu within himself. That is yoga practice. But by such practice, automatically one gains such powerful things, and when one gains such powerful powers, they want to exhibit to get following for material achievements. But that is not the purpose of yoga. Yoga means to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ultimately reach in His kingdom. That is the real purpose of yoga.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Pradyumna: Do the five direct rasas take place between jīva souls also when they are...

Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?

Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That is not finished. You have to go... That is... Upaniṣad says that, he's praying that "Please wind up Your effulgence so that I can see Your true face." The Upaniṣad says. You see in the Upaniṣad. And he's praying that "Please wind up Your this glaring effulgence so that I can see Your real face." So real face is there. And Bhagavad-gītā says, brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. "This impersonal Brahman is standing on My existence." And Brahma-saṁhitā says that

yasyā prabha prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

This Brahman effulgence is nothing but His bodily effulgence. You see whenever we put Kṛṣṇa, there's a bodily effulgence. Within that bodily effulgence every creation is there. Just like this effulgence of sun. Within the sunshine all these planets are moving, all this vegetation, everything growing, coming. The whole thing is existing on the sunshine. Similarly, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything existing on brahma-jyotir. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. "This impersonal exhibition of this whole manifestation, it is I." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything existing in Me." Nahaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. "But I am not there." So we have to study everything intelligently. I want some intelligent persons from America. Then it will be done. It is not bluff. It is real science. Authority. One has to understand simply. That's all. Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Unless one is very, very intelligent he cannot come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He must be very intelligent. So if we find one or two intelligent persons, ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā..., then one moon is sufficient to eradicate all darkness. There is no need of millions of stars. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so beautiful. You call any intelligent person, we are prepared to convince him. Any intelligent. He must be little intelligent. That's all.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Kīrtanānanda: What about Mādhava-lati?

Prabhupāda: Yes. She is good painter.

Kīrtanānanda: She's exhibiting a much nicer atti... She had a sari on today, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: She had a sari on today.

Prabhupāda: Sari?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. She was wearing a sari at the temple. She looks very nice.

Prabhupāda: No, she is nice. She is talented.

Satsvarūpa: She could be an assistant painter.

Prabhupāda: And why not somebody marry her? If somebody want to marry, then she will be all right.

Brahmānanda: Nayanābhirāma wanted to marry her.

Prabhupāda: Then why not ask and get her married? Yes. Then she will be fixed up. I think she requires to be married. Then she will be satisfied.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Para-brahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest (3): Before the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa, was God existing? God exhibit temporally...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn what is the birth of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You do not know what is the birth. You are thinking that He is, like ordinary man He has taken birth. Otherwise why does He say, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ? Nobody knows what is His birth? He thinks He's... Just like a child sees daily that the sun rises from the eastern side—therefore eastern side is the father of sun. Is eastern side father of the sun? Sun is always there, but you see in the morning it is appearing from the eastern side. That's all. It is your angle of vision, not that sun is born, taking birth from the eastern side. Sun is always there in the sky. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there but to the foolish person it appears that He is born. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi: "I have no birth." Ajaḥ. This very word is used. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. So how you can compare Kṛṣṇa's birth like ordinary birth? If anyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa's birth he becomes liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. So that knowledge is not tattvataḥ knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa's birth. Kṛṣṇa's birth is every moment. Just like sun. Now here it is not sunshine but in another place the sunshine is rising. So is that the birth, or when the sun will rise here, that will be birth? Which will be the birth of sun?

Guest (3): It will always be there.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed; and after independence, these rascal leaders, they are killing it: "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing: "Eat chickens, eat eggs,." This is going on. So at the present moment there is great propaganda from the side of the government and others to kill India's original culture. So when Americans go there and preach and they see, "Oh, so nice Vaiṣṇava, so nice devotee and so pure," they will become attracted, because that is their original culture. At heart they want to do that, but by artificial means they are being forced to accept something else. So when they see these foreigners and Americans so... And government is not very favorable of my movement there, because it is natural when the Americans exhibit a nice, pure Vaiṣṇava, they come attracted. Just like Calcutta and Bombay, what was there? The same Deity was and saṅkīrtana was there and I was speaking say for a half an hour. But why these forty thousand, thirty thousand people were coming? They were coming to see, "Oh, how Americans have taken to this philosophy(?)." That is their surprise. They are giving credit only for that purpose. This man also. So there is good chance of preaching in India in this respect. We want some men to preach there. It will be great work. So I think in each center, from each center you can contribute one man, and some of you leaders may go. There are already, organize.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: You cannot create male aeroplane and female aeroplane so that you haven't got to manufacture a third one. The third one is produced. Why third one? Millions. And then from millions, another millions, another million. That is God's creation. That means He has got different energies. He pushes on one button of one energy and the production goes on. (Sanskrit) These are the Vedic explanation. His energies are so subtle. Just like nowadays electronic television button, you press, and thousands and thousands of miles away something is happening, you see. So if it is materially possible, it is nothing but exhibition of the energy of the human brain. So if human brain can exhibit such wonderful activities, how much God can do? He has got better brain, that's all, or the best brain. If you have got brain, that's all right, but He has got the best brain, param. Therefore He is called parampuruṣa, parameśvara. Parama means the best, the supreme. God is like you, like me. He has got also two hands, two legs, Kṛṣṇa. But His brain is different. Just like you are scientist; your brain is better than me, or his brain is better than you, and his brain is better than him. In this way you go on searching. When you find the brain which is no more better, that is God. That is God. As you are finding out better brain than you, he is better than his, he better than this—you go on researching—when you find out some brain which surpasses everyone and nobody surpasses Him, that is God. This is our definition of God. How can I deny it? We don't accept blindly anyone as God, incarnation of God. We want to see who has got the best brain, who has got the best opulence, who has got the best beauty, who has got the best knowledge, who has got the best friend. All combined together, if we find in some person, that is God. That we have found in Kṛṣṇa; therefore He is God.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Feeble.

Prabhupāda: Feeble now. So palanquin is all right. He can be carried in palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Now, this is the palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It will be a ludicrous exhibit, sitting demonstration...

Prabhupāda: No, why? All aristocratic kings, they were carried by palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, it was previously.

Prabhupāda: And...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Now the motor car has taken place and the more advanced...

Prabhupāda: Motor, motor, there is jerking.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ...helicopter.

Prabhupāda: Now, now we, this, recently, before coming here, one of my students, Śyāmasundara, he took me from the airport on helicopter to my temple, and he spent one thousand pounds for that rascal thing. Unnecessarily. "Why you have spent unnecessarily?" No.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, you can attend here. You remain here.

Guest (3): And, you know, it was the first time she saw a sat-saṅga, first time in her life.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the wonderful thing is that this is a method of spiritual realization which attracts even a child. Unless one denies to be attracted, everyone is attracted. Even a child, even a dog. This is the... Therefore it is universal. Unless you deny to accept it, attraction is for everyone. If the child is innocent, he immediately exhibits his attraction.

Guest (3): I was really surprised when she said that, you know.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I have seen many. As soon as there is chanting and dancing, small children, automatically they do like this. Automatically. They dance. We have got many children. They dance, they chant. And they fall down and murmurs all the mantras. What is his name?

Satsvarūpa: Bhakta Viśvareta.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Oh, he'll fall flat just like... And he will chant all these mantras. "Nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale..." A small child at three years old. You see.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: This is the opinion of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Anyone who hears Śaṅkara's comment on Vedānta philosophy, he is doomed.

Professor: That's about it.

Prabhupāda: What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "Māyāvādī philosophers are very proud of exhibiting their Vedānta knowledge through grammatical jugglery, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā certifies that they are māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15), bereft of real knowledge due to māyā. Māyā has two potencies with which to execute her two functions: prakṣepātmikā..."

Prabhupāda: Prakṣepātmikā.

Pradyumna: "...śakti, the power to throw the living entity in the ocean of material existence, and āvaraṇātmikā-śakti, the power to cover the knowledge of the living entity. The function of the āvaraṇātmikā-śakti is explained the Bhagavad-gītā by the word: māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why the daivī-māyā, or illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa takes away the knowledge of the Māyāvādī philosophers is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā by the use of the words āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, which refer to a person who does not agree to the existence of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, who are not in agreement with the existence of the Lord, can be classed in two groups, exemplified by the impersonalists Śaṅkarites of Vārāṇasī and the Buddhists of Saranātha. Both of them are Māyāvādīs, and Kṛṣṇa takes away their knowledge due to their atheistic philosophies. Neither of them agree to accept the existence of a personal God. The Buddhist philosophers clearly deny, clearly deny both the soul and God, and although the Śaṅkarites do not openly deny God, they say that the Absolute is nirākāra, or formless. Thus both of them are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), or imperfect and unclean in their knowledge and intelligence."

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Professor: That's... Of course, in the introduction to Śaṅkara's commentary to Bhagavad-gītā, he does, it seems, if it is for him, which is that...

Prabhupāda: He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is person. Kṛṣṇa is person. God is person. That we accept. God is person. God is not person.

Bali Mardana: The demons at Kṛṣṇa's time could not even accept Him as God, what to speak of the demons now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: Therefore they say, What is the platform of objectivity in determining what's God?"

Prabhupāda: This is definition. God has show in himself, exhibited Himself. He married sixteen thousand wives. Where is that person who can marry sixteen thousand wife and expand himself in sixteen thousand bodies? Where is that person?

Karandhara: They say no such person exists.

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is there. He is God, the superexcellent.

Karandhara: But they say He never did that. That's impossible.

Prabhupāda: He did it. There is a mention in the history.

Karandhara: George Washington didn't do anything which was out out out of the conception of belief.

Prabhupāda: No, out of conception, he had no power to do it. He had no power to do it.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?

Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then how fortunate He is is beyond our thinking capacity.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Because... Therefore acintya. How great He is, how great fortunate He is, that you cannot think of, you cannot estimate. That is called acintya. Acintya means I cannot conceive, I cannot estimate. Not only I, any big personality within this universe. Just like Brahmā says, "The others may say that he knows you, but so far I am concerned, I do not know you." That is inconceivable. Brahmā, the greatest personality within this universe, he also admits that "Others may say that he knows what You are, but from my personal experience, I say I do not know anything." We can simply partially see. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Just like we are seeing this material nature, partial exhibition of His potencies. This is one of the potencies, but He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). This material nature is only... This is also inferior potency. Apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This material nature is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind intelligence, ego. All these eight elements are separated inferior energy, and how much superior energies He has got. The superior energy is supposed to be the spiritual world, manifestation of the spiritual world. So if in the inferior material energy there are so many wonderful things, just imagine how much greater important wonderful things are there in the spiritual energy, which is called superior.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Devotee: Not heard, no.

Prabhupāda: How is that? It was very well...

Jayapatākā: In our exhibition booth, we have put up articles about it. India exhibition. Bombay has exhibited the matter.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... (break) ...to take evening walk. This part, on the field, agricultural field. (break) ...if you have any land to purchase immediately, then I can ask Mahadevia, He can pay for that. (break) ...Americans without machine, they cannot sleep. They must smell, "Here is a machine." Then they can sleep. There was a fisherman. So at, in the evening... That is still in India. In the evening you can ask shelter from any householder's house. They'll give you shelter. So he came in the evening, "Sir, I want to pass night in your home." "All right, you are welcome." So the fisher basket, fishing basket. "You keep this here, outside, and you sleep inside." So whole day, he was restless. Then whole night, he could not sleep. Then the master said, "You are not sleeping?" "No, sir." "Why?" "Now, because my baskets are kept outside." "What is in the basket?" "No, unless I smell, I cannot sleep." (laughter) So these Americans, unless they smell about machine, they cannot sleep. "Habit is the second nature." For ordinary muscle work, they'll bring so many machines. I have seen. Karandhara was doing. At least that machine must come. (Makes sound like machine:) kat kat kat kat kat kat kat kat. Making hole. That machine is compulsory.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The only question is that first of all, keep your life. Then you cure another life. Life in you is already there. Now keep it. Protect it by some machine or by some chemical. Then you talk all this nonsense. What do you think, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja?

Viṣṇujana: At the fairs in the United States, they have exhibits of what the scientists are doing, and one scientist has actually invented a machine... Costs one hundred thousand dollars, and this machine can take the head of a man from his body and keep the brain cells still going, and they expect that this machine, they expect, they haven't done it to anyone because no one will do it...

Prabhupāda: That expectation is always there. Any fool can expect anything. That is another thing.

Viṣṇujana: But they've done it with goat head.

Prabhupāda: We are concerned what you are doing now. That's all. We are not for expectation, future hope. We do not believe in that. Trust no future, however pleasant. It may be pleasant to you, but we don't believe it. You rascals, you can feel, but history shows that after death, no brain works. So we take this simple conclusion, that this brain is useless. So am I right or wrong?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: You are right.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No Mahā-Viṣṇu is ādi. Mahā-Viṣṇu is kalā-viśeṣa, partial exhibition of Kṛṣṇa. That is said in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśesaḥ (Bs. 5.48). This Mahā-Viṣṇu, from whose breathing innumerable universes are coming, that Mahā-Viṣṇu is kalā-viśeṣa.

yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo

govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.48)

Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) From Lord Brahmā. Brahmā.

Devotee: That was found by Lord Caitanya, Prabhupāda? The Brahma-saṁhitā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the manuscripts were found in South India and He brought it and He delivered, that "This is authoritative."

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this virāṭ-rūpa is subordinate. Darśayāmāsa hari. Hari is the supreme. And the virāṭ-rūpa is a feature, not that virāṭ-rūpa is original.

Dr. Patel: One of the features of His multiple features.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Virāṭ-rūpa. Not that the... Māyāvādīs take the virāṭ-rūpa is the origin, and this rūpa, Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. But actually, Hari manifested or exhibited...

Dr. Patel: One of his multiple...

Prabhupāda: Multiple features.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: (reads synonyms)

Prabhupāda: (interrupting) Altogether.

Dr. Patel: Kṛtsnam means all, complete.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means there are innumerable universes and that was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa in His boyhood.

Girirāja: (continues synonyms) "adya-immediately;" (etc.)

Prabhupāda: What the modern scientists will say, that the..., all the universes were shown in the body of Kṛṣṇa. So what is the, I mean to say, what is called, action, reaction, reaction of the modern scientists?

Girirāja: They don't believe.

Dr. Patel: Even they are now trying to find out stars further and further with a bigger and bigger...

Prabhupāda: They cannot see even one universe, and here it is said that "All the universes, innumerable universes." So what these...?

Satsvarūpa: Their reaction is: "Simply because it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā does not mean it actually happened." They don't think it happened just because it is written here.

Prabhupāda: No, no, happened or not happened. But you have no estimation, even one universe. You cannot say like that because you are a fool still. Even though it did not happen in the body of Kṛṣṇa, but you have no estimation, you cannot know what is the sun-god or sun planet or moon planet. You cannot go there. So what is the value of your knowledge? If the statement of Bhagavad-gītā has no meaning, then what is the meaning of your scientific knowledge? You are not perfect. So how you can say? Because you are imperfect, so you cannot say against Bhagavad-gītā, which is accepted by all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... Don't be in hurry. Just finish one word. That is sufficient.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel:

rūpaṁ mahat te bahu-vaktra-netraṁ

mahā-bāho bahu-bāhūru-pādam

bahūdaraṁ bahu-daṁṣṭrā-karālaṁ

dṛṣṭvā lokāḥ pravyathitās tathāham

"All are getting frightened of You, even myself."

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that bahu-vaktram bahūdaram. That means bahu persons, many persons, all persons. What is that?

Girirāja: "Rūpam-form."

Prabhupāda: Form. First thing is form. Although virāṭ, but it includes so many forms. Then?

Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "bāhu-arms..."

Prabhupāda: Arms, He is exhibiting many. The same formula. Eko bahu syām. (indistinct) Then?

Girirāja: (Continues reading synonyms to:) "bahu-daṁṣṭrā-..."

Prabhupāda: "Many bellies" means a personal form. Daṁṣṭrā karālām.

Girirāja: (finishes synonyms) "Translation: O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs, and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I."

Prabhupāda: Kāla-rūpa, kāla-rūpa. This is called kāla-rūpa. Then? Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Let us go slow but sure.

Girirāja: (finishes synonyms for 11.19) "Translation: You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance, You are heating this entire universe."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Now that being exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. Not only Kṛṣṇa said, but He exhibited.

Dr. Patel: And now for the real thing. Shall I read, sir?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: (reads verse 11.20 in Sanskrit)

Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: Although You are one, You are spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, as I behold this terrible form, I see that all the planetary systems are perplexed."

Prabhupāda: For devotee, that is a terrible form. That is not very pleasing. Therefore they do not worship the virāṭ form. They worship Kṛṣṇa's original, dvi-bhuja. Dvi-bhuja murlīdhāra śyāmasundara. That is the original form.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: But Lord Rāmacandra could not assume Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. Lord Rāmacandra also can do. They are all full powerful.

Bhāgavata: Oh, Rāmacandra is full opulence.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, but Rāmacandra's full opulence was not exhibited. There was no necessity. But it is not that He could not. Yes.

Girirāja: So at the end of the Kṛṣṇa Book, when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna visit Lord Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu calls them incarnations of Himself, that is because Kṛṣṇa appeared through Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. (break) ...covering of the universe. There are seven coverings. Each covering is ten times bigger than the one. Again, the seven elements...

Girirāja: So at night when we look up, everything that we see is within this universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes, within this universe, yes. And there are innumerable universes.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: So other living entities would play the part of Rāvaṇa in other universes?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Or any other way.

Mahāṁsa: We cannot actually conceive of all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The conclusion is that Kṛṣṇa being the reservoir of all pleasure, so the pleasure of fighting is there. So He can exhibit anywhere. (break) That is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we limit Kṛṣṇa like one of us, or little bigger than me, then I become doctor frog. (aside:) Don't come near. Why don't you tell them? (break)

Girirāja: "...Vasudeva attempted to take His son from the delivery room, and exactly at that time, a daughter was born of Nanda and Yaśodā. She was Yogamāyā, the internal potency of the Lord. By the influence of His internal potency, Yogamāyā, all the residents of Kaṁsa's palace, especially the doorkeepers, were overwhelmed with deep sleep and all the palace doors opened although they were barred and shackled with iron chains. The night was very dark, but as soon as Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa on His lap and went out, he could see everything just as in the sunlight." (break)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.

Prabhupāda: But I saw and offer my obeisances to your motorcar. (laughter) I was thinking that "Dr. Patel's representative, the car is here."

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): No, but this...

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. (laughing) "I have got bhakti, but I don't do anything for You. You go home." So that is not bhakti. Bhakti must be exhibited by activity. That is the definition of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). So these are the nine different ways of expressing bhakti. First thing is śravaṇam. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ, chanting and hearing. Of whom? Of Viṣṇu. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not of any other one. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "We can chant anyone's name, either I chant of any demigod's name or any name."

Indian man (1): But does He not say that "Whatever or whoever does it, it comes to Me."

Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So these things required. If actually... The same thing, that if a girl is married to the husband, she must be always engaged in the service of the husband. That will be appreciated. If she says, "Sir, now we are married. You go home and I remain at home," there will be no prayojana-siddhi. The real purpose of marriage is to get children. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. So if the husband and wife simply love within the mind and there is no action, there is no prayojana-siddhi. We should be practical, not simply theoretical. So love between two persons, there must be exchange of loving feelings. These are the exchange of loving feelings. Unless the exchange loving feelings are there, that is not love. That is theoretical. That is not practical. It is... I have explained in the beginning of Kṛṣṇa Book that love is practical exhibition. It is not theoretical. We cannot keep love within the heart. If actually it is within the heart, it must be expressed practically, and these are the... If I love you, then as soon as there is some news, "Oh, Dr. Ghosh is coming?" I shall be very much interested to hear about you, when you are coming, how you are coming. That is love. So that is śravaṇaṁ. If one has love for God, he must hear about God. That is purpose, śravaṇaṁ. And if he has heard about God, then he must chant also. He should, I mean to say, preach to others, "Oh, God is like this, God is like that, God is so beautiful, He does like this, He does like that." That is kīrtana. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Smaraṇam. Smaraṇam means always remembering. Without śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ... Just like this chanting. When I say Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately I remember Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's, everything of Kṛṣṇa, automatically, His quality, His beauty. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ padā-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). To be engaged in the service of the lotus feet as Lakṣmīji is being engaged in the service of the Lord, anantam...

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant. So gradually he is given service. "First of all this, first of all that, then..." Again and again, again, again. The same example can be given, that the husband and wife. Formerly, when I was married, my wife was eleven years old. So (laughing) an eleven years old girl and I was at the same time twenty-one, twenty-two. One day I captured her hand. She began to cry. A little girl, you see? So gradually, gradually. I know... When my brother-in-law, sister's husband, used to come... In the beginning, the girls were very... My sisters were same age. So they would meet the husband, offering a little pan or little sandeśa. (break) ...after this. Then niṣṭhā. Then he has got a firm conviction that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is called niṣṭhā. Then ruci. Then he increases taste. He cannot go out. He cannot go out of this jurisdiction. Just like these boys, they have come from Europe, America. They are attached. Otherwise I am not giving them bribe. I have no money. Why they are attached to serve me any way? If I say that "You die," he will die. Why this attachment? This is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ruci, aśakti, tato bhāva. Then bhāva. Bhāva means Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully developed. Then love. Then love. Love is actually exhibited. Then "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa in this way, in that way, that way, that way." You see? Fully engaged. This is the process. You cannot say that "Let my love be stagnant in my heart. There is no exhibition." No. There must be exhibition. That is the symptom of love. Otherwise why Rūpa Gosvāmī resigned from his ministership? He was a devotee from the very beginning. He is nitya-siddha, eternal devotee.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign. "No more these things." Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Just like if you are hungry and if you are given some food, if you are satisfied, then the same food will be denied by you. "No, no, no. I don't want anymore." Full satisfaction.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Śiva-liṅga. You have seen Śiva-liṅga?

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A temple of... There are so many hundreds and thousands of Śiva temples, but nobody has exhibited śiva-liṅga, big śiva-liṅga on the head of the temple.

Akṣayānanda: Where is that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Bombay. And he's speaking on Gītār Gān. Gītār Gān means to construct a big śiva-liṅga temple. He's proving himself a rascal by his activities. He's a rascal number one. He has gone many times to foreign countries, but not a single foreign student he has got. (break) ...from atheistic fools who are not prepared to follow any rules and regulations, they are after him.

Akṣayānanda: That Sai Baba too...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone.

Akṣayānanda: Many of those young boys and girls, they are potential devotees. They are just in it for a bit of fun. A bit of fashion or fun.

Prabhupāda: Similarly Rajneesh. (break) ...very good intelligence, Lieberman.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's a Life Member?

Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: He studies our books?

Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes, he has taken our books and he especially asked that "I am reading these books and please give me." And he attended all the three days of the exhibition grounds.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mahāṁśa: You maybe remember, no?

Devotee: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: Channa Reddy. He's very nice. He'll be coming today at ten o'clock. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the modern politicians. Here at the present moment their philosophy is that one must be very cunning diplomat, then he's successful politician. This is their philosophy. The most crooked man, like Cāṇakya. But our philosophy is that the political head should be like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Lord Rāmacandra, that is difference. Here Churchill or Hitler or similar man, crooked man... Without being crooked one cannot become politician. Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, he said that "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." Consistency. You must change.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: To think, it surrounds...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...everything is there, but centered around Kṛṣṇa. (break) Govinda viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat sarvam. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat-sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me: "By Govinda's separation, whole world is void." You see? These are exhibited in the person of the...

Dr. Patel: That... (break)

Prabhupāda: "...Kṛṣṇa is gone, I shall die." This is govinda viraheṇa me. "Oh, what is the use of living if Kṛṣṇa is gone?"

Dr. Patel: He was just a boy of five, six, seven years. (break)

Girirāja: ...about a hundred hoods, how could Kṛṣṇa manage all of those hoods?

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. You are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa from your point of view. Kaliya may have unlimited number of hoods; still, Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. That is Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa from your standpoint of view.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern. They are also on the big fourth-class men. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Where is that verse? Find out. All fourth-class men. Not fourth-class, less than fourth-class. Fourth-class has got also some regulative duty. But at the present moment, no regulative duty. Anyone can do whatever he likes, whatever he thinks. All fifth-class, sixth-class men. No regulative principle. The human life is meant for regulative principles. Just like we are insisting our students only for regulative principles just to make them real human life. No regulative principle means animal life. Animal life. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena... (SB 6.1.13) The yoga system is there. It is to learn the regulative principles, yamena niyamena vā. The yoga system is very strict regulative principle. I do not know what they are doing. Generally, they misuse also that, but yoga means indriya-saṁyama, controlling the senses. That is real yoga system. Because as the animals, they cannot control their senses, similarly... So the human being, having higher intelligence, they should learn how to control the senses. This is human life. Human life means controlling. I give this example. Just like in the... In your country, there is no such shop. In our country, the confectioner's shop is on the roadside, very nice. You have seen in India. They have prepared very nice, nice preparation and exhibited. People come and purchase. So animals, cows, as soon as they take some opportunity, they push their head and take something. Get away. Now, the animal, the cow is passing, and a human being is also passing. But the human being, although he's hungry, he likes to take some of the preparation, but he'll not do like that animal. He knows that "I have no money. So I shall have to restrain my tongue." That is human being. The animal pushes the head. So anyone who cannot carry the regulative principles is animal. The law is for human being. "Keep to the left, keep to the right" for... This is not for the dogs. Dogs can keep to the right, keep to the left, anywhere. But he's not criminal. Because he's animal. But if a man, instead of keeping to the right, he goes to the left, immediately, he's criminal. Therefore human society means to abide first-class law. That is human being. The laws must be made for advancement of spiritual life. That is human society. Because animal life, it doesn't require any law. How to eat, it doesn't require any law. Everyone knows. Man knows, animal knows. How to have sex life, it is not to be educated. Everyone knows. But they are philosophizing on sex life.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: What is it from?

French Devotee (2): It's a new building.

French Devotee (1): It's new. It's not hundred years old. It's called Marine Museum, Museum of the Marines.

Paramahaṁsa: It's a museum for exhibitions.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. The man who created, he's kicked out. "Get out!" What did he do? "I have created this thing. I must enjoy." Why he's kicked out? Why?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Because it is actually not his property.

Prabhupāda: What is the answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's just like this body.

Bhagavān: He's not the real proprietor.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?

Yogeśvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.

Prabhupāda: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out. Don't you understand this?

Bhagavān: He doesn't know it.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Trafalgar Square.

Bali Mardana: They cannot object if the ratha is not moving.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. That "You, objection... Our ratha will not move. It will simply stand there. The Deity will go in palanquin to Trafalgar Square and come back." They cannot object. But the ratha must be seen. And people must know that the rascal police government has stopped it. Go, everyone, and do it. The ratha must be exhibited, even though it does not move. And the Deity will be moving in palanquin. And come back again to the ratha. Is that all right?

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Can you execute all this?

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do it. Ratha-yatra ratha is there, but the police did not allow to move. That's all right. We shall not move. The Deities, three palanquins, taken together, procession will go to the Trafalgar... That is, that is allowed. But the ratha must be exhibited. It will not move. So what is their objection. If the ratha stands in the same place, without movement, then they cannot have any objection. As they have passed, the Deities will move, and we'll come back again. Is it any... Eh? What objection can...?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But he cannot do anything like lift Goverdhana Hill or have sixteen thousand wives.

Prabhupāda: That is both for them. Let them lift only one mound weight. Then they will come. But they cannot do, neither of them. That is impossible. They have not killed any demons. They are taking advantage of the foolishness of some people. That's all.

Amogha: The only quality they have exhibited is expertness in cheating. That is their qualification. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: (in car) Because so many of them are saying that "I am God," they become envious of one another, and then they fight and expose each other.

Prabhupāda: Competition. God's competition.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. And then everyone can see that they are simply materialists.

Prabhupāda: Not only he, but there are many others claim to become God. All of them should be brought into the court.

Paramahaṁsa: Didn't Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura do that once?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very... So both the husband, wife, and child is happy. Now the mother and sister should be happy.

Mother: (laughs) I'm happy if my children are happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be more happy. (laughter) You will have to take because son inherits the quality of mother. So you have got the quality. You are not exhibiting now. So by the influence of your son, you will take to it.

Sister: Has everyone the potential to accept Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Everyone, yes, oh, yes, everyone.

Sister: But what about people that are never..., that are always kept in ignorance. There's a lot of people...

Prabhupāda: He does not take. He does not take willingly.

Sister: That's what I mean, yeah. There's a lot of people that just don't even know He exists.

Prabhupāda: But if he takes, he has the potentiality. If you agree... Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). If you agree to Kṛṣṇa's proposal, then you will, that potentiality is manifested.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They say that "You are crows. You have come to see the crow." (laughter) Will they not say like that?

Bahulāśva: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bottle?

Bhaktadāsa: This is a office for the zoo. They have a little exhibition of animals and botany. It smells like skunk. (break)

Prabhupāda: They capture other birds.

Bhaktadāsa: Yes, right. They eat mice, and birds.

Citsukhānanda: And chickens. They come flying, those chickens.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...call gaj pat(?). They eat pigeons also. (break) ...not very clear. Dirty water. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...of the trees in Seva-kuñj.

Prabhupāda: Mm. (break) ...are exactly Indian. (break) They have good facilities on this lake.

Citsukhānanda: They have one church here, Prabhupāda. It is Mormon church. It is not too far from here. It is very gigantic, and it's on a hill. And every Sunday they get maybe five to six thousand guests because they have spent great money on a big complex. They have a library, museum and church. This is... We could also do this sometime, make one nice Indian temple. Thousands of visitors would come, even just tourists, from all over the world. They could probably come the same way. Ours would be much better, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good idea. (break) ...also very nice.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Rahu, yes. Rahu is between earth and sun. Moon is above sun.

Devotee (3): So it is bigger than the sun?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. The size is there in the Bhāgavata.

Paramahaṁsa: In Stockholm, Prabhupāda, in the museum, they have a whole room, and in the room there is all these... There's American flag and Swedish flag, and there's a whole exhibit with one teeny little rock about as big as my finger nail that the Americans gave the Swedes. It's supposed to be a rock from the moon. And they said in it that it's exactly as any kind of rock that you'll find on earth. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: They say? It is simply cheating. They found this in Arizona, somebody... (laughter) And laboratory work.

Bahulāśva: I have been trying to arrange a meeting between Your Divine Grace and that astronaut. He was going to come to Rathayātrā, but he had to go to Florida for some space project.

Prabhupāda: What does he say, astronaut?

Bahulāśva: He says that... His name is Edgar Mitchell, and he was one of the men who went to the moon. But we talked, and he said... He thinks he has gone to the moon. But he said that when he was there, he had a religious experience, and he felt that there was a God. When he went to the moon, he had this experience. So when he came back, he was telling all his scientist friends what his experience was. So they became very afraid, and they kicked him out of the space project. They thought he had become a fanatic, religious sentimentalist, so they kicked him out. So now he has opened up an institute for noetic sciences or... It is some Greek word. It means like spiritual sciences. He wants to prove to the scientific world that there is God.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is good.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhagavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: He's imitating the birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) Just like this tendency was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. In the forest the two brothers and other cowherds boys, they were also imitating. They were flying. The bird is flying; they were also flying like this. And coming to the monkey, coming to the peacock and imitating the..., like this. These are description in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Brahmānanda: But his imitating the bird means he will become a bird?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: This man's imitating the bird means that he will become a bird.

Prabhupāda: Not necess... This is sporting. It will be decided what he is thinking at the time of death. That will become prominent.

Brahmānanda: Is it by chance what you think of at the time of death or is...

Prabhupāda: No.

Brahmānanda: ...it dependent?

Prabhupāda: It is dependent. Just like all of a sudden some idea come to us. That means we had contact with such idea. It is compared with... Just like there is a big pond. All of a sudden, you see, from within a bubble comes "phut!" There is no reason, but it comes. That means the thing is there within the pond, the situation. All of a sudden, without any time, it comes. They put this chance theory like this. But this is not chance. If... Because we are changing our life, so everything is recorded in the mind, dictaphone. So sometimes some idea which I had contact with many, many years ago, it comes. It comes. It is not chance. I had contact with such thing. All of a sudden, that idea comes. We shall go now.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Come to the ship of Kṛṣṇa. That is what we are deciding.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dr. Patel: (laughing) That you are not coming to the point of the..., quickly. Prabhupāda: Yes. In this kind of-Bhagavad-gītā śloka, Bhāgavata śloka, and doll exhibition—so you prepare. I will give you the suggestion. Dr. Patel: Sir, I have one point to ask you, that Vyāsa Bhagavān was not satisfied, doing all these things, and he finally composed the Bhāgavatam. But even Mahābhārata can be called equal to any of them. Mahābhārata, with the Bhagavad-gītā in... With the Vidura-nīti, with the Viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma and all these things can be equal to any other... Prabhupāda: Stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām (SB 1.4.25). It is meant for less intelligent class of men: stri, woman; śūdra; and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu means persons who are born in high family but they have no education. Just like a man born in brāhmaṇa family... Dr. Patel: Brahma-bandhu. Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest. But those who are advanced, they want higher philosophical thoughts. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). It is meant for higher class.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: In Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He approached me that "You just have a big hall in the Yogapīṭha." I immediately accepted, that "Yes, if you give us the charge we can spend immediately ten lakhs." So Śrīdhara Mahārāja has said that "If it is gone to Swami Mahārāja, then there will be no trace of Tīrtha Mahārāja." Therefore he is trying for that. So I think we shall have, according to our original plan, the temple, and in that temple we shall display all these dolls: "Here is Vaikuṇṭhaloka, here is this loka, this loka, this loka." That will be... (break) ...we make some arrangement for exhibition of our books very nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're going to have booths in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Tīrtha Mahārāja will not be able to show.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Never.

Prabhupāda: He has no capacity.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Jayapataka: No. I only have first, Ādi-līlā.

Prabhupāda: So, you haven't got here? No? So they want book. So they are not dispatching Caitanya-caritāmṛta?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They haven't dispatched latter volumes. They've done the first few but not the new ones which have come. But he is sending some for your room, to have a complete set in each of your rooms.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It should be exhibited in Māyāpur, especially.

Jayapataka: It would be nice to have a big book display, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately ask them to dispatch to Māyāpur all books for demonstration. That is the main item, and they have not sent in Māyāpur? Caitanya?

Girirāja: Well, other than the Ādi-līlā, the later volumes only came within about a few days ago.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Māyāpur all the books should be displayed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll get a complete set for display also.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta especially, it should be displayed in Māyāpur. Immediately ask to send to Māyāpur. And whatever books you have got already, you send them immediately. You select what books you want. Harer nama harer nama (CC Adi 17.21).

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Tejās: He told me. I don't know why. This Dr. Lokescandra? He told me that "Ācārya Prabhakara has many criminal cases against him."

Prabhupāda: (break) Which way we have to go?

Tejās: This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotee (1): There was a poster on the wall, said they are opening a big exhibition of Russian books in Punjab, and the chief minister, he is going to open that.

Prabhupāda: Many books?

Devotee (1): Big exhibition of Russian books. They are teaching the Russian (indistinct) all over India. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So why don't you exhibit our books? Let them come to competition. What books we have got, compare with our books.

Devotee (1): What they say is that this philosophy is very old. They say that this philosophy is very old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent...

Devotee (1): They think that they are frustrated. They have nothing more to do except this.

Prabhupāda: Then why they take this? Why not your philosophy? Why they take this philosophy? Why not the Russian philosophy?

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Harikeśa: Well, lots of people take the Russian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No, they are exhibiting here in India, but why in Europe, America, they are not taking?

Harikeśa: But there are many Marxists in America. Like on the subway...

Prabhupāda: Many Marxists, there are many capitalists. That is another thing. But why the Russians could not make everyone Marxist in spite of so much propaganda? What is the basic principle of Russian philosophy?

Tejās: What is the basic principle?

Haṁsadūta: Follow the teachings of Marx.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is that teaching?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything belongs to the state.

Ambarīṣa: The worker is supreme.

Haṁsadūta: Everyone should work for the state, and the state will distribute fairly.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: The basis of the philosophy is that matter is supreme.

Ambarīṣa: And all matter is the same.

Prabhupāda: Matter is supreme. Then why the matter does not move independently?

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: That they have no answer.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Harikeśa: When the dog is dancing, it may even be Rabindranath Tagore.

Prabhupāda: Rabindranath became very popular on account of his introducing Māghmela, where young boys and girls could easily meet. Yes. (aside:) Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Haṁsadūta: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tejās: Their current exhibition is "Women in the World."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?

Tejās: It's "Women in the World."

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) What is that "Women in the World"?

Ambarīṣa: Sixteen-ounce brain, I think.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a world conference of women in Mexico recently, where every country sent a delegation of women.

Prabhupāda: To become man? (laughter)

Harikeśa: Yes, nowadays we're doing that also.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman. (break) ...here. Kalā, kalā?

Tejās: Stones.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That means you have broken them?

Bhavānanda: They were broken.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Broken by?

Jayapatāka: Time. They were clay. They started just falling.... No doll maker is here. After one year they started to fall apart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this last years' exhibit?

Bhavānanda: From three years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three years ago. Last years' are still good?

Prabhupāda: No, they break.

Bhavānanda: Some. The Pañca-tattva and...

Jayapatāka: They should have been put in the Ganges.

Prabhupāda: No, how it breaks? They keep it for years, and you broke them? How you...? How you broke? Automatically?

Jayapatāka: No, because there was no place to store them, by moving them and moving them from different rooms then they gradually broke.

Prabhupāda: So there are so many rooms. You could not make any store?

Jayapatāka: First they were in the building to here. When they moved it then many became damaged. And somebody came in and vandaled them.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) Cleansing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cleaning, pūjārīs, cooking.

Saurabha: Cleaning is very big job to maintain, especially with exhibitions that...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maintenance.

Jayapatāka: We can get a lot of people, village people, to come and live without pay and do the cleaning, but they won't be productive. I mean, they'll have to be supported by the temple. They'll just be cleaning all day.

Prabhupāda: Supporting is no problem. To everyone we can give place and food. There is no problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If there is an escalator in the building, simply the proceeds from people going on that escalator, Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be income.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...will be a huge income. I'm certain thousands of people will come daily just to ride that escalator. (laughter) Because even now a few hundred or more, five hundred to a thousand people come every day just for darśana. So these will all pay a rupee. And if this building is there, that will be ten times the number of people. It'll be a gigantic income.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) (break) ...Mādhava Mahārāja's sisya? No.

Bhavānanda: Mādhava Mahārāja?

Jayapatāka: Gosvāmī. He used to be in charge of the agriculture.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) How they are bringing ruination. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind men led by another blind man. It is not new. In the Bhāgavata therefore it is warned that "Don't follow hog philosophy." Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This kind of philosophy, that for sense gratification, laboring whole day and night, writing books, philosophizing and all these things, it is meant for the hogs, not for human being. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of civilization is meant for the hogs. So they are exhibiting that they are no better than hog.

Śāstrījī: Śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Brahma-saukhya, ananta-brahma-saukhya. (break) (sings Bengali verses)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Don't manufacture knowledge. Take knowledge from Bhagavān. And that is our business. (Bengali) Don't order Bhagavān. Just follow Bhagavān. That is wanted. (Bengali) Don't write concocted poetries. That is not beneficial. Simply follow. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That is your business, not to give upadeśa to Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, do this." Nāciye nāciye āile gopāla: "My dear Gopāla, please come to me, nāciye, dancing." And the Gopāla is father's servant. Ordering, "Gopāla, come," nāciye nāciye, "my sense gratification." It is all nonsense. Why should you ask Gopāla to come to you? (Bengali) You cannot order. You must follow. (Bengali) ...to carry out the order of God, not to order God to carry out my order. That is mistake.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (4): "World's largest planetarium and Temple of Understanding."

Prabhupāda: No "Understanding" simply Vedic "Temple of Vedic Planetarium," That's all. We shall show the Vedic conception of planetary system within this material world and above the material world. (break) We are going to exhibit the Vedic culture throughout the whole world, and they'll come here.

Jayapatākā: The whole world will be coming here to...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...visit.

Prabhupāda: Just like they come to see the Taj Mahal...

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the architectural culture, they'll come to see the civilization culture, the philosophical culture, the religious culture by practical demonstration with dolls and other things.

Jayapatākā: And we'll be advertising that all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dragging us back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: When this paṇḍal is going to be filled up?

Bhavānanda: The exhibits should be arriving today with the devotees, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Who are these men?

Bhavānanda: They are the paṇḍal workers.

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍal work... (break) Always, what is called...? Communism. They say, whole world, "We are Communists," "We are capitalists," "We are socialists," and "We are nonviolent," "We are violent."

Madhudviṣa: Dualism.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Dualism?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dualism. How many isms, nobody knows. But... What is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So we should not bring that attitude in our society. That is my request.

Guru-kṛpā: Envious. They're all envious.

Prabhupāda: That you should not do. And that unity is possible with, only when harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21) is there constantly. Otherwise, it will be factional. What do you call? Factional is the right word?

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was having morning walk regularly, alone.

Madhudviṣa: He said you used to walk very fast. (break) (Indian band playing)

Madhudviṣa: Entrance? (break)

Rādhāvallabha: ...ISKCON temples, ISKCON activities, ISKCON temples, ISKCON Deities... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...people will know there is exhibition? There is no signboard. Who will know that here is...?

Rādhāvallabha: We'll have to put up signs today showing the entrance. There will also be a BBT and the scholars' quotes.

Prabhupāda: Where is this?

Rāmeśvara: That is near Atlanta.

Prabhupāda: All right. (break) ...He taught them to steal then: "Mother is not giving. You steal." That picture is going on. (break) Juhu is so small?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, we should have made it bigger.

Rāmeśvara: The size of the cart is restricted.

Pañcadraviḍa: What year is that?

Rāmeśvara: Recently.

Revatīnandana: It was this past year or the year before last when we had it. Two years ago it was full.

Prabhupāda: They want to stop it. That is their... (break) A new temple?

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."

Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.

Devotee (2): Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and request him to stop to send, give passport to all these nonsense. Do this. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, invite them.

Rādhāvallabha: Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, if you can keep everyone from banging into those... They break very easily.

Prabhupāda: So why not make a small booklet of all these, thin paper, so that we can send.

Rādhāvallabha: We need very much also a permanent display building in Māyāpur. This exhibit cost almost four thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes, have immediately.

Rādhāvallabha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Immediately ask them to construct a house.

Ghanaśyāma: Make it like a museum.

Prabhupāda: Who is here from Māyāpur, in-charge? Nobody is here?

Yadubara: Jayapatāka went on parikrama.

Yaśodānandana: I think maybe that along with that commentary from the professor from the University of Mexico to send to Mrs. Indira Gandhi, if all of these quotations are sent, she will understand that you are being appreciated by everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, you can send all the quotations, not only one. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...very enlivening, encouraging, very good. And especially from the Western countries. All classes of academic leaders. It is very good.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Haṁsadūta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: What to speak of understanding the content.

Jayapatākā: (break) ...exhibit the farce of modern science.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is showing the real way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.

Pañca-draviḍa: That will be very nice.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Gurudāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, a few years ago I presented an exposition, and in that was a planetarium, and also there was an exhibit called "Man's Relationship with God," which was the alternative to modern anthropology, showing how anthropology is not valid and man's relationship with God is the valid thing, and then regulation is the preventative of the disease, is the alternative to psychology or behaviorism, like that. All these exhibitors can be there, showing how science is false and Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the śāstra.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the śāstra.

Gurudāsa: Jaya. (break)

Jayapatākā: This special exhibition building?

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata. Take every page of Bhāgavata. And I think every year there should be change.

Haṁsadūta: New exhibit.

Prabhupāda: New exhibit.

Haṁsadūta: Otherwise it will become stale.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: 'Cause we have so much material.

Gurudāsa: It should be done very easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: It should be life-size, like walking into the forest of Naimiṣāraṇya.

Prabhupāda: Life-size or not life-size. Three feet, four feet, that will be...

Haṁsadūta: The old exhibits can be sold to the visiting temples. They can take them back to their...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.

Jayapatākā: BBT.... BBT did such nice packing with this modern styrofoam that they could easily move even fragile dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) What is that?

Jayapatākā: They brought the glass light thing, and they didn't break it, with this plastic foam.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. That plastic bullet is now in motorcar. Even if you fire, it will not enter, the bullet. Is it not?

Gurudāsa: Windows? Plastic in the motorcar?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bullet-proof glass.

Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, they have bullet-proof glass.

Gurudāsa: They have something in regular cars that if it hits, it won't break.

Hari-śauri: It shatters.

Gurudāsa: And in the cars of big men they have bullet-proof glass. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees.... Śatadhanya was asking if there could be a group photograph on the grass this morning after class? For five minutes?

Prabhupāda: (break) .... that we are killing vegetables, but actually we are not killing. They are already dead.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Superman, actually. That is the fact.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, today starts a big international convention for the Association for Asian Studies, and we're there. It's in Toronto. We have an advertisement in this book, with Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, with a quote by that Bruce Long. And we have that big sign at our booth: "The largest publisher and distributor of books on the philosophy, culture and religion of India." This shows also with all the exhibitors, we're listed, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. And this is where we are, this booth here.

Prabhupāda: So who is taking care?

Satsvarūpa: Two of the library men who didn't come, just so they could go to this convention.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...therefore they search. And who goes to the airport? All respectable gentlemen, who can pay lump sum for air fare. So he's also searched out. That means there is no gentlemen. The airport security is searching through. Then in this world there is no gentleman, no honest men.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You were planning to raise a temple in Kurukṣetra?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have applied to the government for land, twenty-five acres land.

Dr. Patel: Very big. But is that land available to us?

Prabhupāda: Yes, available. And we have asked government to give us 350 acres of land in Māyāpur to construct Vedic planetarium, 350 feet high. It will require eight crores of rupees minimum. I shall exhibit there all the planetary system, bhurloka, Goloka...

goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya

devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu

te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.43)

Dr. Patel: Now the Russians also have come to this conclusion, the Russian scientists and astro-physicists, that there are some planets here in the cosmos which actually have people, I mean, has life like human beings. The other day I read a big article on that. Now they agree.

Prabhupāda: They will agree so many things.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Available in every species of life also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ajñāna. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. This big house, (break) ...so that you will work hard. And he used to do that. You bring money and he'll spend. And if you say, "Sir, we collected this money for this purpose." "Yes, he spent. You again collect." Somebody has paid that constructing temple, and he has spent for other purpose. Then, when the devotee will say, "Oh, what this man will say?" "That's all right. You collect again." (break) ...he'll get some money, he'll make some arrangement for doll exhibition and spend the all money.

Guru-kṛpā: Are they going to start on Māyāpur building this year?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: That is beginning?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Collect and spend. Collect and spend for Kṛṣṇa, that is nice. I am therefore asking them to print books. I have got so much in the Book Fund. Print books. Let there be books stocked and no money stocked. (break) ...upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje.

Guru-kṛpā: Prabhupāda, we just got here.... Now we've just gotten one farm, two hundred acres. We're purchasing this next week. For eleven thousand dollars, two hundred acres.

Prabhupāda: Very cheap.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were writing, their lawyers were writing our Society letters that "You cannot use the words 'Transcendental Meditation.' Maharishi has made up this process and you are stealing from him."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's stealing from Kṛṣṇa.

Bharadvāja: Yesterday you gave an example of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, walking on the beach. What is the full...? Because we're going to try to make an exhibit of it. So what is the full analogy? Is he actually going to another place by his mind, he's actually transported?

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental knowledge. Now the Russians will fall also if our books are introduced there.

Prabhupāda: If actually they are after something reality, they must accept. If they are actually after something reality. It is natural. They have been disgusted with this Christianity. Useless, that's all. But if they are actually serious, then they'll accept knowledge. (japa)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break)...exhibit of Bharadvāja's in the temple of the Dāmodara and Mother Yaśodā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is nicely done?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (japa) (break) ...that he is not my father, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom is the source of everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom, the little particle, is eternal, original.

Prabhupāda: But you rascal, you are not coming from atom; you are coming from your father. That is my reply. You rascal, you are coming from your father, not from the atom.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, he said that potthor katha ke usa cane gauri ber katha sundari(?) If you remain poor, then nobody will be...

Rāmeśvara: And this diorama project will also give us a lot of respect.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We have got many things, stock. We shall exhibit gradually. We have got many things in stock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many new ideas.

Prabhupāda: First of all, I started the book. That is, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is becoming successful. Then diorama. Then I shall give next idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This diorama is a major idea.

Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: I brought the Time magazine people to see it. They were so impressed they wanted to come when the museum is open, to make a story.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in India, but now I see it's an easy mentality for anyone's mind that can be adopted. That's why Prabhupāda was stressing.

Rāmeśvara: And as our movement gets more and more members, there will be more and more people who will be exhibiting this sahajiyā tendency.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why it's in every book Prabhupāda speaks about it without fail.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, keep your movement very pure. You don't mind if somebody goes away. Don't mind. But we must keep our principles pure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I always remember that you said that in the battle sometimes some men may be lost.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Natural. Of course we don't want to lose men, but it's natural.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Kṛṣṇa, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes changes his original rasa with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: Each one of us has an original relationship with Kṛṣṇa, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...can have so many engagements. Simply by making dress, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cooking, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cleansing the floor, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Easiest method. Everyone can remain Kṛṣṇa conscious in any circumstance. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not condition that "You have to become like this; then you'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious." No. In whatever position you are, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No extra intelligence required. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Either you dress the Deity or you cleanse the floor of the temple, the same thing. You get the result the same. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Anything you do. Somebody is cleansing, somebody is chanting, somebody is cooking, somebody is printing, somebody is selling books—everything is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And that is the best yoga. Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yoginām api sarveṣām: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, who is thinking of Me, always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the topmost yogi." "By meditation I am trying to become God. By meditation one can become God." This is their foolish theory. Kṛṣṇa, when He exhibited His godly power at the age of three months, where was meditation? (laughs) God is always God. You cannot become by meditation God. You can become godly; that is possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So she's not getting facility in Hawaii. She can come here with two, three assistants. There is so much place here. So correspond with...

Mādhavānanda: Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or ask our Govinda dāsī. Write one letter to Govinda dāsī, I'll sign, that "You can come with your assistants. Here is a very good scope for doll making and exhibit. And the place is very nice. You'll like." So many other girls they can also learn. Doll making is very easy. It is not difficult.

Mādhavānanda: We have good facility here for it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The clay is soft here?

Mādhavānanda: Well, usually they purchase clay, don't they? Bharadvāja's? Usually they purchase art clay in America.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Fuller's earth. That is wanted, Fuller's earth.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: That would be a big attraction—a waterside restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.

Mādhavānanda: We could have tables and chairs on the grounds.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to do that. Better make it a doll exhibition. And give them prasāda free. Restaurant in the city, that is all right. Not here. Nobody will come to the restaurant from the city. That is not possible. But we give them free prasāda. (japa) (break)

Makhanlāl: ...Prabhupāda, you mentioned that soon there will not be so much use for automobiles. What will be our means of spreading the saṅkīrtana movement?

Prabhupāda: We shall walk. You'll have good exercise. (laughter)

Makhanlāl: By oxcart also?

Prabhupāda: If possible; if not, walk. What is that?

Hari-śauri: Maybe we can develop some mystic opulence and walk on the water.

Prabhupāda: Here, in this world, everything has got six changes. Birth, then stay, and then develop, then by-products, then dwindle, then finish. Everything. So the motorcar civilization, it was born. And now the time has come it is dwindling, and it will be finished. Just like railway; railway no more interested, anybody. But when it was invented, it was very important. Now it is useless. That is the nature of everything here in this material world. It cannot be permanent benefit. That they do not know. They become very enthusiastic when some new thing is born. Child is born, I am very happy. The same child, when he's dead, I am unhappy. But one must know: what is born, it will die. So everything material has got a period of development, then it dwindles, and then finishes. So from this nature's law, we can see this motorcar attraction, utility, it will finish. It will not stay.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Satsvarūpa: Gene.

Prabhupāda: Gene.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...building or something...

Viśvakarmā: Yes, it's a very big exhibit, scientific achievements. (break) ...come and see it.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...their achievement, no more death? As soon as you ask this question, matte kara heṭ. Baḍo baḍo baḍo badora(?) baro baro pet laṅkā diṅgaya matte karo heṭ. "Big, big monkey, big, big, belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." What scientific advancement? Do you think there will be no more death? Matte kore heṭ: (?)"Yes, we are trying." Answer them, "What is your achievement?" All achievement will be, remain in your back and you'll have to die. So what you have done, insurance, that you'll enjoy this? You'll be kicked out of the scene at any moment. What you have done for this? What is the answer? Mattaḥ kore heṭ "Yes, we are trying." (laughter) Nonsense, you are trying. And we have to see this nonsense. We are not so fool. And if they say, "What you are doing?" "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science. Why shall I waste time? Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged one scientist in California that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" He said, "That I cannot say." What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect. So he has to give up this mentality, mastership, then he'll be making real progress. Sarāopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, that "I am not master, I am servant." When he's fixed up on this platform, then he's liberated. Or in other words, when he feels pleasure, transcendental pleasure, remaining the servant, that is liberation. But as soon as he continues the mentality that "I want to be master," then he's in the māyā. That mentality he has to give up. Or he has to understand that "I'm not master; I am servant." That is liberation.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, they are eating all the flowers.

Prabhupāda: They are also trained, they are not afraid. They are sitting, you go, they are not afraid. They have been trained up that "We are at home." That animals and any birds can be trained. Just like these cows, they know that all of you are friends. Animals can understand. Even if you can make friends with the tigers and lions. Yes. I have seen it. In that New York exhibition, one man was showing me. He was embracing the lion and playing like dog. I've seen it.

Hari-śauri: That used to be a circus trick as well. They used to put their heads in the lion's mouth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: As long as the lion is well fed, you can put your head in his mouth, but if you don't feed him, then it is dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Naturally, if he's animal. They can understand that he's giving you food, he's my friend. The love, friendship, everything is there, even in animals.

Devotee: Except God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That is possible in human life. But animal also can become God conscious by association.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Only the very expert, who have almost retired from materialistic activities, by culture of spiritual knowledge can be admitted to the study of this great science. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated that out of many hundreds and thousands of men, only one person deserves to enter into transcendental realization, and out of many thousands of such transcendentally realized persons, only a few can understand the theological science specifically dealing with God as a person. Śrī Vyāsadeva is therefore advised by Nārada to describe the science of God directly by relating His transcendental activities. Vyāsadeva is himself a personality expert in this science, and he is unattached to material enjoyment; therefore he is the right person to describe it. And Sukadeva Gosvāmī, the son of Vyāsadeva, is the right person to receive it. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the topmost theological science, and therefore it can react on the layman as medicinal doses. Because it contains the transcendental activities of the Lord, there is no difference between the Lord and the literature. The literature is the factual literary incarnation of the Lord so the laymen can hear the narration of the activities of the Lord. Thereby they are able to associate with the Lord and thus gradually become purified from material diseases. The expert devotees also can discover novel ways and means to convert the nondevotee in terms of particular time and circumstance. Devotional service is dynamic activity, and the expert devotees can find out competent means to inject it into the dull brains of the materialistic population. Such transcendental activities of the devotees for the service of the Lord can bring a new order of life to the foolish society of materialistic men. Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His subsequent followers exhibited expert dexterity in this connection. By following the same method one can bring the materialistic men of this age of quarrel into order for peaceful life and transcendental realization."

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that with all of the cars going and what not, it probably amounted to about ten million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that petrol. But what was the purpose? The purpose was little sense gratification, "I shall see something illuminating." What was other purpose? No purpose. Simply to satisfy the eyes, to see something illuminating. That is one sense, eyes. Then there are other senses. They also want satisfaction. There are hands, there are legs, there are tongue, eyes, ears, nose. So every one, every one of these senses, they are engaged for sense satisfaction. So this is the life. But that sense satisfaction is differently exhibited for different bodies. Just like this firework, it was interesting to the human being. Human being has got a particular type of body, so it is interested to see the firework. But the cats and dogs, they are not interested. They do not know what is fireworks. They, while we are interested to see the firework, a hog may be interested to eat stool. If he gets some stool somewhere, he'll be interested, than to see the firework. So because he has got a different body, he's interested differently. We are human beings, we are interested differently. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja rightly said, deha-yogena dehinām. This sense gratification, varieties, according to the varieties of the body. Deha-yogena dehinām. But this is arranged, this different process of sense gratification is arranged daivāt, by the superior arrangement. Daivāt. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām, sarvatra labhyate daivāt. By the superior arrangement everywhere it is available. Either you become Lord Brahmā or you become a small ant, the process of sense gratification, arrangement is there. (aside) You can come forward.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are having a big exhibit of minerals and gems, Museum of Natural History. One thing about this museum, it can give Bhāradvāja many ideas for doll exhibits.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I'm going to go there with him when he comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This particular museum, we used to go when we were children, and fantastic exhibits, really realistic.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, dolls, dioramas...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, all dioramas.

Rāmeśvara: ...of dinosaurs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the whole thing is dioramas, the whole museum practically. I'll go with you also.

Rāmeśvara: They are convinced that dinosaurs, these gigantic animals, were living on this planet millions of years ago. They found some bones, and they have created the form of the animal body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it true that there were big dinosaur bodies?

Prabhupāda: If they were, it is still now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, wow.

Prabhupāda: We don't say it is extinct.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Some rain?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's moisture in the air and rain, like that.

Hari-śauri: They have a lot of hurricanes there, don't they?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A few. But no place is perfect within the material world. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the fourth floor we're going to have doll projects. Doll exhibits. So there's an open balcony up there and I want to do something like that, see up there with the glass, the balcony?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I want to do that. Because there's an open balcony right on the street side, enclose it with glass, it would be very popular. After going to see the doll exhibits people can sit there comfortably take, you know, rest on the bench. And it can be seen from outside so it will be indirectly an advertisement. You'll see that there are people sitting there. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...artists that work on your books, they have to train many devotees to paint because one day in all the government buildings there will be paintings of Kṛṣṇa. Just like now they have all these paintings of so-called...

Prabhupāda: If they are selling, you can sell these pictures.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...

Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)

Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.

Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)

Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...

Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara will have his office here.

Rāmeśvara: Look how interested they are in China. They have a collection of Chinese paintings.

Prabhupāda: Why not our paintings? (break) ...were constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think around the turn of the century, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Most of the big buildings like this here were constructed at that time. (break)

Prabhupāda: (break) ...prohibited?

Hari-śauri: In the park?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is written there.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Here is our standard—to make him devotee.

Hṛdayānanda: China.

Rāmeśvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art.

Prabhupāda: Afro-American, why not Indo-American?

Bali-mardana: There is an Indian exhibition at a different museum right now. This museum also has Indian exhibitions sometimes.

Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.

Rāmeśvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where's that?

Rāmeśvara: It's at the Asia House Gallery nearby.

Ghanaśyāma: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhāgavatam-it's because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical.

Prabhupāda: ...books.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ask them to find out from which monkey the Darwin's bone has come. They may decide. Study the bones of Darwin. And spoiling public money in this way. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...each display they have some background artwork very expertly done. Say they have a display of a tiger. They have a painting of the forest in the background, and it's very well done. They spend a lot of money, with lighting systems.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But none of the exhibits are moving. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...for one display of the different stages of the embryo growing. So to have this display they used actual dead aborted babies. They have them mounted in the display case, the dead babies that they have killed.

Prabhupāda: Killed?

Rāmeśvara: Aborted babies. They have taken their tiny little bodies and put them in a display, so you can see the baby at two months, at four months, at six months, at eight months. Like that.

Prabhupāda: How it is growing.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, the different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, how it is growing? When it was put into the bottle, why it did not grow? It remained as it is.

Rāmeśvara: They say because they severed its connection with the mother.

Prabhupāda: That means the baby has grown from the mother. So mother is life. That is the proof. Otherwise how the baby has grown? You cannot say that life can be grown out of matter.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe. So that is the material disease. Actually, master is one, Kṛṣṇa. There cannot be two masters. There is only one master, that is Kṛṣṇa, or God. But in the material world, because we have forgotten the real master, every one of us is trying to become master. This is material disease. Not only in one life, but life after life. The cats and dogs, they also want to be master. The dog, if he finds another dog coming, he immediately begins barking very loudly, "Why you are coming here?" So this mastership competition is going on life after life, sometimes as human being, sometimes as animal, sometimes as fish, aquatic, sometimes as demigod, bird. This is the whole material situation. And the difficulty is that we cannot become master, but on account of our false ambition that "I shall become master," we are becoming servants of material nature. We are acting in a certain way to become master, creating a situation, mentality, and at the time of death, when this body finishes, the mind absorbed in that mastership idea takes me to another body according to my ambition, so I become again manifest in different body to exhibit my mastership. Another chapter begins.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So bring some sitting place.

Vāsughoṣa: Every brāhmaṇa got 116 rupees, and they brought him a cādara and they paid for prasāda. Lakhs of people came from all over central India, Andhra Pradesh, thousands and thousands. They paid for prasādam. Whole pandal, huge pandal, they went to this exhibition ground. They gave, the rest of the money went to the Rāmānuja Swami.

Acyutānanda: Oh, that was the yajña.

Vāsughoṣa: Jeer Swami. Shriman Narayana Jeer.

Acyutānanda: That's not a Bhāgavata-saptāha.

Vāsughoṣa: Yes, Sahasra-Bhāgavata. They had one thousand...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that Donghari Maharaja?

Yaśomatīnandana: That Donghari is very famous in Gujarat, so now he has mostly become famous all over India.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are booking thirty rooms in our guesthouse for ten days for the program.

Acyutānanda: You've got new japa beads, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From tulasī. It was made in Honolulu. In Honolulu tulasī plants are very luxurious. Hyderabad local people, they are not sympathetic with our temple? Huh? Not sympathetic?

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Alteration? What is that alteration?

Hari-śauri: I don't know exactly what they're doing.

Harikeśa: No, what they're doing is that room, everybody goes there, the guests all go there. So in the past it's just been a big empty wasted room. So now what they're doing is making it a big preaching room with photos all around and book tables set up in such a way that someone can just walk in that room and there's a whole exhibit for him to see...

Prabhupāda: Who has gotten this idea?

Harikeśa: I think Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. It's an exhibition room.

Prabhupāda: Then they are breaking wall or what?

Harikeśa: No, no, they're not breaking. They made a big door so that you can walk straight in from the outside. You saw that door yesterday. Now what they're doing is building shelves and bookcases.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That sound is disturbing.

Harikeśa: Would you like them to stop it until you left?

Prabhupāda: If stop then how their work will go on? They manufacture ideas and spend money. This is the difficulty. Everyone manufactures some idea. And break it, do it, dig it. Money is coming and they are spending it. They cannot adjust whatever is there. Big big ideas. Big big belly. And money we have to bring from America. "Give me one lakh, give me one lakh, 15,000. I make idea, you pay." So many rooms you can make showroom. Why breaking this door, breaking that door? Too many cooks spoils the broth. And repairing and, what is called, addition, alteration, will never stop. I do not know how to stop it. Now, the other, Yesterday that Viśvambhara said, you were here, no? Viśvambhara said, suggesting there should be raft (?) three feet high, seven feet high, this high... Everyone will suggest. And spend money. Any friend, you bring him, he'll suggest so that you may spend it. And wherefrom money will come? Oh, that is your look after. I am your friend, I am giving you good suggestion. Break it. Do it. I am your friend. You break your head. (laughs) There was a Mohammedan king, Raj Uddin or some... Nizamuddin. Nizamuddin there is a tomb in Delhi. He was poet. So if some friends come he would read some writing, and he will suggest, the friend will suggest, "Why don't you make like this." "Oh, it is good. All right." He'll do it. Whatever he says. And when he goes away, then again makes his own. So the secretary said, "Why you are changing?" "What can I do? Those... That is my friend. And that is nonsense; therefore I am again doing what I wrote." So we have to do that. As soon as you call anybody, he'll give you some suggestion. "Make this alteration, make this alteration." So description of the sādhu is there. It is very nice. Where they will find this description all over the world? Hm?

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Doctor: (laughs) It's better to bark than to bite.

Prabhupāda: Then that is your satisfaction. You can do that peacefully.

Doctor: One day after barking they will come to a conclusion.

Prabhupāda: No that is... Let it be known, fact, that that will never come. If you do not know what is the aim. That is stated, durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This is, means, a bad hope, that by this external exhibition of manipulation of energy, they will come to peace. It is not possible. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ adānta-gobhir... (SB 7.5.31). Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This kind of leading is made by the blind leaders. If the leaders are blind and the followers are blind, what result will be there?

Doctor: That is true, sir, but that stage has not come. One day it will come. But till that stage and that realization of...

Prabhupāda: No, stage is there. But if the obstinate persons, they do not take it... Here it is clearly said... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor of all the lands, all the planets." So how can you say no? There must be someone proprietor.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Devotee: I think there were some other books also. I didn't check that.

Prabhupāda: Something he must take, he will read, understand our philosophy. (break) ...Carter is good.

Surabhi: Yes, I got a letter from Dharmādhyakṣa in Surat two months ago. He was invited to the White House after our... He had an exhibition at Vancouver, that habitat. So it was a world conference of solution to life, living. So he was invited. He met some of the officials there. He was invited to Washington, but he had to wait for Carter to become the President because then it would be fifty percent more favorable because they had a relationship. There these people... Then he said there's a great chance they will help us in India. So he is going to go there and speak with the...

Prabhupāda: In India.

Surabhi: No, Washington, D.C. That's in America. They invited one of our devotees there to discuss this Māyāpur and all this social type of... Dharmādhyakṣa. He's writing for that Back to Godhead magazine. He worked with Gurudāsa together.

Prabhupāda: His article, one is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes, "Simple Living High Thinking." You saw that.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: His article, one is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes, "Simple Living High Thinking." You saw that.

Prabhupāda: So he met him.

Surabhi: Not Carter. He met the government officials who were representing the United States Government at that exhibition, and they were very favorable. They were one of the most favorable, he said, the United states.

Prabhupāda: Yes, our "plain living, high thinking" is very nice idea.

Hari-śauri: Actually it's the only practical solution.

Jagadīśa: Mr. Carter is a farmer, peanut farmer.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jagadīśa: That's how he gained his money.

Surabhi: He's the biggest peanut farmer in America. (laughs)

Pradyumna: He started out in the military, he was in the Navy. Then afterwards... His father had a peanut farm, and then his father became sick, so then he gave up his Navy thing. He came back to take care of the family. Then he began that peanut business. Now he doesn't have to do it any more because now he has made millions. He is wealthy man, very wealthy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...capture American government. Then all world will follow. As they are known as Communists, we should be known as Hare Kṛṣṇas. We are already known as such, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Keep that name. People at least chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Guru dāsa: Yes, but there is also urine in Bhuvaneśvara. Indian doctor. In Bhuvaneśvara you are going to have any plan for making a temple?

Prabhupāda: What is my plan, that is always there. That is to print books and construct temples. Throughout the whole world this plan is going on. Fifty percent construction, fifty percent printing books. Whatever I get money, I give him. That's all. I am the same beggar. Either it comes ten lakhs or fifty lakhs, ten crores.

Dr. Patel: You are exhibiting this body to be "I". Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is different.

Dr. Patel: You come down to body consciousness and talk to us. We want you to talk from higher consciousness.

Prabhupāda: I have no higher consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Then talk from the lower consciousness, still lower.

Prabhupāda: Why should I?

Dr. Patel: Let us go out and make a business in the stock market.

Prabhupāda: I am doing business. I am selling books. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Fate -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Rādhā-vallabha: This is for the theistic exhibition. This is the copy for the sound track, and when the karmīs first walk in, this is the sound track that will play.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You keep here.

Rādhā-vallabha: So this is like the introduction for the entire thing. Then it comes up to the point when they see the diorama of yourself, and there's a certain part where they want to have you thinking.

Prabhupāda: But here diorama should be explained in the local language.

Rādhā-vallabha: Here in India. This is for the American one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, American. That's all right.

Rādhā-vallabha: So would you like me to read it to you?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Rādhā-vallabha: This is the very beginning. "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the First American Theistic Exhibition. Since time immemorial we have inquired about our origin. We have tried to understand our place in the universe, the nature of birth and death, free will and predestination, time, God, and nature. However, even after countless years of philosophical study and comprehensive research these questions still remain for the most part a mystery. The words you are about to hear were written five thousand years ago in a language no longer spoken called Sanskrit."

Prabhupāda: No longer spoken? Why?

Rādhā-vallabha: I was just wondering about that myself. No longer spoken on the earth?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is spoken in India. There are many scholars who speak Sanskrit. In Europe also.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Billiards?

Prabhupāda: Billiard-playing or some exhibition of singing, and hundreds of men will gather. And they were feasting, first-class food. In this way spending, spending, spending... And then prostitute, aristocracy. In this way one property and one property lost, everything. At last I saw him going by rickshaw. One day it was raining, and I saw that he was sitting in a rickshaw, and no friend asked him that, "Haren Babu, why you are...? You come to my car," so many. And he was friendly to so many zamindars, kings, and very intimate with... But they lost of everything, and nobody cares. His sons, they are of our age. I do not know whether living or not. But most probably they are not living. They became professional singers, coming of such aristocratic father. His father, that Mr. R. N. Singh, was a very good singer. That also was another aristocratic that aristocrat family—art, some art: painter, singer, poets. Just like Rabindranath Tagore. They became famous as artist. Avanindranatha Thakur, he became famous as artist, and Rabindranath Tagore became... They also followed the aristocratic family, Calcutta. Similarly, this R. N. Singh became a singer. Because they are rich men, they have nothing to do, so... And nobody instructed them how to become saintly person. Simply debauchery and... (break) On the whole the whole human civilization is..., and all the directors, they are not giving chance to know the value of life and how to conduct life. It is the first time, that we are giving the real idea of life.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Pālikā: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: These were taken just before I left Los Angeles. This is a figure of Kṛṣṇa from the rasa-līlā being dressed in cloth.

Prabhupāda: His face is like Acyutānanda. (Rāmeśvara chuckles) Acyutānanda's face is beautiful.

Rāmeśvara: This figure is going to be Lord Gadādhara in the exhibit of the Pañca-tattva dancing at kīrtana. She is just beginning to make the form.

Prabhupāda: So you have got any business?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So let... Let me finish (break) ...but devotees of... Oh.

Rāmeśvara: These two pictures show dolls being painted.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage Govinda dāsī?

Rāmeśvara: If she will come, she can be engaged in many ways.

Prabhupāda: She is also very expert.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: She doesn't like the weather in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Doesn't like? Why? What is wrong there? Los Angeles is very nice. I like Los Angeles.

Rāmeśvara: Only the spring and summer. I think it's in her mind.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles is very nice. What is this?

Rāmeśvara: This is going to be one of the demigods in one of the exhibits. The painting is very, very expert. I've seen some of the dolls that are painted. They look alive.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Rāmeśvara: Even in the eyes there is a little moisture as if the eye is...

Prabhupāda: Very natural. So I see the dolls... Intelligent boys, they can do it, educated, intelligent. Very good, nice. So many students are engaged...

Rāmeśvara: This is like pottery. Spinning on the wheel, he is designing the ornaments for the crown. Each doll of the demigods has a different crown. That's how they make them, on a spinning wheel just like a potter.

Prabhupāda: They are devising their own way. Eh?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are devising their own way. Eh?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: This is part of the Universal Form exhibit. This is Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Oh, lying down.

Rāmeśvara: Very big. He's bigger than a human being.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Rāmeśvara: And this will be the Universal Form. He will have many heads and many arms. And with the controlling the lighting, His image will appear in mirrors on the ceiling and on the walls, so everywhere you look you'll see Him.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) All-pervading. It is very, very good improvement, encouraging. People will enjoy this.

Rāmeśvara: And He is lying on Śeṣa. This exhibit is so spectacular, this Universal Form. It is more impressive than anything, I think, in America, because at a certain point there is even a machine which makes different fragrances in the air.

Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.

Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do yourself?

Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of rubber?

Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.

Rāmeśvara: They started manufacturing it, at a time. That's what they used. This is a doll of Kṛṣṇa speaking to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Nobody can think it is doll. How many men are engaged?

Rāmeśvara: I think thirty devotees. That includes all the carpenters and...

Prabhupāda: And they are becoming expert so that in future many other also.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: This is a doll of Lord Caitanya. That devotee is Ādideva. He was here, in India studying with Bharadrāja.

Prabhupāda: I simply see how the devotees are engaged in so nice occupation. This painting, this taking, thinking of Caitanya, thinking of Kṛṣṇa—this is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is... Nobody can deny. When he's working in this way he cannot think of other way. That will elevate him, simply by thinking. Man-manā. He'll derive greatest benefit. He'll become devotee. He'll get liberation from this material world simply by doing that. It is so nice. So in all our centers have this doll exhibit.

Rāmeśvara: This is Lord Nityānanda. Very blissful.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi guṇa mani āmāra nitāi-guṇa mani, āmiya premera bandha vasala ayantu.

Rāmeśvara: These little dolls are Gandharvas. There will be over two hundred of them in the Universal Form exhibit.

Prabhupāda: Who is the girl?

Rāmeśvara: That is one of the doll makers' wives.

Prabhupāda: What are the small?

Rāmeśvara: Those are the Gandharvas. Each Gandharva... There are hundreds of them. They have their own outfit, different colored dresses and different ornaments, all made by hand.

Prabhupāda: So small?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Because there are hundreds of them. But in the mirrors there will be millions of them.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Because there are hundreds of them. But in the mirrors there will be millions of them.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: Filling the whole sky and all directions.

Prabhupāda: Very good. So encourage them.

Rāmeśvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kurukṣetra, and then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these people come from Muscat. That's where I went last month. (break) (Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: ...supervises all the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he should be engaged for propaganda.

Rāmeśvara: For every exhibit Bharadrāja has to make a complete drawing.

Prabhupāda: His wife is also helping?

Rāmeśvara: She is doing the sewing for the clothing. The whole show will be finished before Māyāpur, and Bharadrāja is coming for the festival. Then right after the festival we will go back to Los Angeles and have the grand opening.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: When it is finished, then we'll take color pictures and send them in case you're still in India.

Prabhupāda: By the month of...

Rāmeśvara: It could be April. The grand opening, I think...

Prabhupāda: I may go there some time. From London to Los Angeles there is direct plane. Takes about ten hours, eh?

Rāmeśvara: Ten hours at least. Los Angeles to New York is five and a half, and New York to London another five hours, six hours.

Prabhupāda: Or in this way, about twelve hours, via...

Rāmeśvara: Too long a flight, I think. It would be better... It's too long a flight.

Prabhupāda: That directly from London to... That is the same?

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, vagina civilization. In Florida they go, Miami, to spend money weekly, five hundred, five thousand dollars for naked dance. You know that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. So many places. Las Vegas. Every big city has...

Prabhupāda: And Brahmānanda told me sometimes they see on the stage a fatty woman having sex with an ass. This is exhibited in Mexico. And they enjoy it.

Hari-śauri: In Europe they have sex fairs.

Prabhupāda: Sex fair? What is that?

Hari-śauri: You can go, and they have sideshows, men and women having sex on the stage at regular intervals, and they exhibit all kinds of contraptions that you can use to pervert your sex life even more.

Prabhupāda: What they will understand about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Hari-śauri: There's not very much hope for them.

Prabhupāda: Help is for everyone, but if they remain stubborn to their own way of life, then it is not possible. They have to wash the brain. Otherwise it is possible.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Which I sung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And also the "Hare Kṛṣṇa" which they sung, you remember, in London, that was very popular. Even in Communist countries it was popular.

Jayapatākā: There was a headline in the newspaper, Hare Kṛṣṇa rock... (break) ...and put this in our exhibit. That will go a long way for making the people more Kṛṣṇa conscious. They really... The only thing...

Prabhupāda: You give your mother. She can utilize it. She's very intelligent girl. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sit down. I am little better today. Sometimes for the last... How many days? I am... (break) ...think great. I told you this must have been published.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can get this light on.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rādhā-vallabha: So English is first. 43,450,500 literatures. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Where is such publisher?

Rādhā-vallabha: That's one for every five people in America. And second is Spanish: 2,947,000. Third is German: 2,125,500. Then Japanese, I had to make a guess. I'm not sure, but this is pretty close: 2,125,000. Fifth is French: 1,670,000.

Prabhupāda: There should be... A big board should be hang.

Rāmeśvara: We have a big display of this for the Māyāpur exhibit. We made this up as a...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: In the exhibit there is a framed picture, each language and the books, each title, and then there is one big frame, one showing international.

Prabhupāda: This is the blessing of my Guru Mahārāja. He wanted it. And because we are trying to do this, he is giving us all blessings. He told me personally, "I wanted to sell this marble and publish some books." Calcutta, that Gauḍīya Maṭha is also marble floor. Now, he said that "Since this temple has been given by Mr. Datta, our men are fighting, 'Which room I shall occupy?' So I know there will be blazing fire here. So before that, I wanted to get out this marble and sell it and turn into some books." He told me, like that. So I noted down that, that he wants books. So I tried to do that. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good.

Hari-śauri: That's her on the picture, here.

Prabhupāda: Very good intelligence.

Cāru: This has all the significant temples of India, and just included in there is the ISKCON temples. Right as they come in the front door is a very nice cultural exhibit.

Prabhupāda: Increase more temples. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) As many towns, as many villages. At least as many towns, and then push through the villages. What is your news about our palace in France? I am asking you, Bhūgarbha.

Bhūgarbha: Chateau palace in France?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Is it going nice?

Bhūgarbha: It is going on. I haven't been to the palace.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhūgarbha: I go to the Paris temple.

Prabhupāda: So it is very nice temple.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here also, Mādhava Mahārāja temple, nobody goes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this his temple here, in Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is always closed. They are cooking.

Bhavānanda: And the photo exhibit is very popular. Everyone goes.

Prabhupāda: To see.

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is... Within, there is fan?

Bhavānanda: No fans, but it's cool. It's very cool.

Prabhupāda: It is down.

Bhavānanda: Yes. And shaded.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: Govardhana wants to have dolls on the outside grounds.

Prabhupāda: Do. Yes, very good. You do.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause they have so much lands, so right outside the temple there'll be doll exhibits for all the tourists.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we saw something like that in Hrishikesh. Just recently we went to Hrishikesh, and in one āśrama they have doll exhibits of all the avatāras. Oh, it was very... Of all kṛṣṇa-līlā. And each doll exhibit is within a little temple, dome-shaped temple. People go and look, and there's a plaque that describes what it is. Very nice.

Rāmeśvara: We'll have more than a plaque.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that whole thing costs a thousand dollars, not a quarter of a million.

Prabhupāda: Doll exhibition you can have in this temple also. People will come to see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Along the side?

Prabhupāda: Where is suitable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually there's room up front where the water, the water fountain carrier, when you enter. There's a lot of open space there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can go and take rest. Again you can come at one. What is the time now?

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the purport?

Upendra: This material world is called the world of death. Every living being, beginning from Brahmā, whose duration of life is some thousands of millions of years, down to the germs who live for a few seconds only, is struggling for existence. Therefore, this life is a sort of fight with material nature, which imposes death upon all. In the human form of life, a living being is competent enough to come to an understanding of this great struggle for existence, but being too attached to family members, society, country, etc., he wants to win over the invincible material nature by the aid of bodily strength, children, wife, relatives, etc. Although he is sufficiently experienced in the matter by dint of past experience and previous examples of his deceased predecessors, he does not see that the so-called fighting soldiers like the children, relatives, society members and countrymen are all fallible in the great struggle. One should examine the fact that his father or his father's father has already died, and that he himself is therefore also sure to die, and similarly, his children, who are the would-be fathers of their children, will also die in due course. No one will survive in this struggle with material nature. The history of human society definitely proves it, yet the foolish people still suggest that in the future they will be able to live perpetually, with the help of material science. This poor fund of knowledge exhibited by human society is certainly misleading, and it is all due to ignoring the constitution of the living soul. This material world exists only as a dream, due to our attachment to it. Otherwise, the living soul is always different from the material nature. The great ocean of material nature is tossing with the waves of time, and the so-called living conditions are something like foaming bubbles, which appear before us as bodily self, wife, children, society, countrymen, etc. Due to a lack of knowledge of self, we become victimized by the force of ignorance and thus spoil the valuable energy of human life in a vain search after permanent living conditions, which are impossible in this material world.

Our friends, relatives and so-called wives and children are not only fallible, but also bewildered by the outward glamor of material existence. As such, they cannot save us. Still we think that we are safe within the orbit of family, society or country.

The whole materialistic advancement of human civilization is like the decoration of a dead body. Everyone is a dead body flapping only for a few days, and yet all the energy of human life is being wasted in the decoration of this dead body. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is pointing out the duty of the human being after showing the actual position of bewildered human activities. Persons who are devoid of the knowledge of ātma-tattva are misguided, but those who are devotees of the Lord and have perfect realization of transcendental knowledge are not bewildered.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I become surprised how I have written this. Although I am the writer, still sometimes I am surprised how these things have come. Such vivid description. Where is such literature throughout the whole world? It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Every line is perfect.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That should not be his business. It may be inferior. If not inferior, not with the... Then it is mentioned in the... (break) Still more. (break) And that is all written, Hindi, English. They can go home to home and distribute Hindi books to the ladies. They can be engaged in that way. (break) Therefore any so-called yogi (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are delivering unadulterated. Here is another report from Haṁsadūta. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to exhibit, you have to pack. Do it nicely. Kṛṣṇa will bless you. (break) ...and book for all men. That is important. People may... (breaks)

Śatadhanya: Nectarean.

Prabhupāda: And this means that ambrosia. And you are all Mohinī-mūrti, distributing ambrosia. These scriptures should be brought to the (indistinct) system, and they'll get opportunity to meet with them. So how...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I also... It could mean... According to Gopāla, from Africa, that prasāda...

Prabhupāda: Prasāda from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From all over.

Prabhupāda: Has he come with some news?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one knows, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: How they'll do? They have no asset. Engrossed with bogus things, cheating. That was my ambition. You have seen that Delhi shop? He was preparing first-class ghee, and all, hundred... So we are giving the real spiritual life. Automatically there is response. Customers will come. And (indistinct). And you can cheat somebody.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Uttarāyaṇa, dakṣiṇāyana. This Sumeru Mountain... So six months, northern side; six months, southern side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some things are quite clear. Then there's a description, though, that there's an axle, it's described, a tie made of wind going from the chariot to Dhruvaloka. So things like that we want to get a..., further information on. Just so that it can be somehow demonstrated. Our... To understand these things for the purpose of making an exhibit requires a very clear picture. So that's the only reason we're looking to other books. But only bona fide books. The ācāryas' commentaries, like that. And then it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam. If in any way there's a discrepancy, we choose the Bhāgavatam as the authority.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the sun is not fixed up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, not at all. It's moving. As a matter of fact, it describes sometimes it moves in one way with Meru at its right side, and then sometimes it moves the other way with Meru at its left side.

Prabhupāda: That is dakṣiṇāyana-mārga, dakṣiṇāyanam, uttarāyaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much moving and at very high speed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I calculated sixteen thousand miles per second, so far I remember.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They're all superexcellent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I hope that they meet with your approval. We are now in the process of completing a reproduction of the saṁsāra display for the twofold purpose of museum publicity, a special photograph to be taken by a famous photographer..." It's funny. You told him not to do this, but they went ahead and did it. "...and an exhibit to be displayed at the Los Angeles First Annual Ratha-yātrā festival grounds. This saṁsāra diorama has an outstanding response from the general public, and we hope to make it available to many centers for the preaching work in the near future. In connection with this I had an idea of constructing traveling trailers housing one such exhibit, complete with lights and sound, explaining the process..."

Prabhupāda: Oh, it will be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he wants to make a trailer. Trailer means like a big...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...and sound, explaining the process of transmigration of the soul and other philosophical displays from the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā."

Prabhupāda: It will be so attractive.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...which in this project will inevitably increase constantly as we take on more and more ambitious undertakings."

Prabhupāda: From Bhāgavatam you can make hundreds and thousands of doll exhibits. Each stanza of Bhāgavata will give you ideas of dolls. The karmīs can be exhibited... Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9). This śloka can be explained, what is the meaning of religion, by doll exhibition. When you do it I shall give you ideas how to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "By your mercy, now there is a very concentrated effort on behalf of Rāmeśvara Swami, Ambarīṣa dāsa and myself to plan and build an impressive theistic exhibition in Washington, D.C...."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...which would attract the attention of some of the world's greatest leaders and dignitaries. The scope and implications of this task are breathtaking, and I am feeling very small and insignificant in confrontation with it, just like a dwarf trying to touch the moon. However, if you want me to perform this task, then kindly give me your mercy and bless me..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You train up assistants and this will be recognized by government and everyone. You'll do more than Columbus. (laughter) In the Washington, in different compartments, a different explanation of Bhāgavata śloka by dolls will attract millions of people to see. Will it not?

Bhāgavatāśraya: Oh! It will become more than Disneyland.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And you can charge some fees, entrance fee. People will gladly pay. All around, this doll exhibition, and in the medium, a planetarium, small.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhāgavatāśraya: Oh! It will become more than Disneyland.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And you can charge some fees, entrance fee. People will gladly pay. All around, this doll exhibition, and in the medium, a planetarium, small.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're going to have it in Māyāpur, they can have a little... Not very small. Proportionate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "The FATE..." They call it FATE, First American Theistic Exhibition. "The FATE Los Angeles exhibit is now complete with very small details remaining on the complex computer system. It will be operational on July 10th." Four days ago. "And the grand opening will be held on Janmāṣṭamī this year. I have no right to hope in this way, but in spite of my intelligence, I wish Your Divine Grace could see this first attempt for theistic exhibition in the Western world."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says if it's not possible for you to come, then he'd like to make a film and bring it to India to show it to you. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People do not get nowadays proper nutritious food.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tuberculosis. And diabetes, getting the food but not digesting.

Prabhupāda: So if we remain nice, then digest, or anyone who works, brain work... That is nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another thing, if we go to Los Angeles, we'll be able to see that exhibit of Baradrāja's, and that's really enthusing. Los Angeles will be very enthusing to see that. There's a lot of devotees there.

Prabhupāda: You can go directly from London to Los Angel...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, I think there is a direct flight.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In terms of time? You mean flight time instead of stopping in New York, what is the benefit of flying direct? Just the landing time in New York you save. The flight is pretty much the same. You save at least an hour to an hour and a half, two hours. Because when the flight goes from London to New York, when it first hits America, it hits America north of Canada practically, and then they go down the eastern seaboard. It hits Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and then it goes south down Massachusetts, like that, Connecticut, and then to New York.

Prabhupāda: But it does not stop.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he offered everything he has to Prabhupāda. So Śrīla Prabhupāda has requested him to build a large building and put in a Vedic planetarium in Washington, D.C., capital of the United States, right near the White House, with the Vedic planetary system according to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto. So he has agreed to do this, and now they are choosing the property where they will develop this program right in the heart of Washington, D.C. So it will be very good. And also the dolls will be... Doll exhibit.

Prabhupāda: How they are making dolls, show him. How nice dolls.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: I brought them here and kept them in Māyāpur.

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, and they got the training there.

Prabhupāda: And they have learned now. Now they are making better dolls than the Krishnanagar potters. They are very intelligent. The intelligence was not properly used. Now they have got chance. In Bhāgavata it is said, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. This knowledge, why it should be locked up amongst the jñāna-khala? In India this knowledge is available, and they should be packed up amongst themselves? Now it is the time to distribute.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Every month, if we regularly publish, we get some postal (indistinct). That's... If you every month publish some in certain date, you get very cheap rate for posting. That... All right. So a good thing... (break) Very good boy. So Gaurasundara, if he joins there, it will be still more brilliant for both of them. Because you have got the talent. You are not to be taught. You can teach others how to make dolls. And profusely make this doll exhibition from Bhāgavata. Yes. There's no need of reading book. They will see and understand Bhāgavata. Everywhere, in every branch, you see how many tourists you attract. Do all these things. Kṛṣṇa has given all assistance: money, men, endeavor. Now utilize it properly. Just see how nicely they have made. Nobody will understand this is doll. As if actual photograph.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, when I showed someone that photograph of Your Divine Grace in the Rādhā-Dāmodara room, you know, that doll exhibit, he said, "Who took this photo so many years ago?" I said, "No, this is not a photo. This is doll exhibit." This was a devotee of yours. They thought it was a photograph taken ten years ago or twelve years ago. They couldn't understand that it was a doll.

Prabhupāda: At least in London, in Hawaii, then... What is called?

Devotee (2): Washington?

Prabhupāda: No, the palace.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śrutakīrti: They set that exhibit up at the Ratha-yātrā festival. They had one large tent of the "Changing of the Bodies" exhibit, and myself and another devotee went to go see it, but there were so many people in line that we changed our mind. Several hundred people were standing waiting to see that exhibit. It's going to be very famous, "Changing of the Bodies."

Prabhupāda: It is a new thing. Many people come to see in our exhibition... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...sell whatever they produce, whatever they print. There hasn't been increase much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's staying at about the same pace. The reason is... They could increase, but the reason it's not is that more emphasis is going into increasing the big books. The magazine's keeping pretty much at a steady rate of nearly half a million a month, and they are pushing to increase the big book distribution. Otherwise it would be very easy to increase. In other words, wherever we want to place the emphasis.

Prabhupāda: So books are selling nice? (end)

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Śrī Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.

Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.

Haṁsadūta: The Buddhists, they have very nice temples there. In all their temples they have diorama exhibits about the life of Buddha and other figures from their line, but done very nicely, much nicer than the Hindu temples, very clean. But all Buddhists, they don't follow Buddhist even. They all eat meat, and, they say, they even drink and have women. Everything deteriorated. (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:) Is it all right to speak?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Haṁsadūta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gītā. I was thinking that in Shree Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dharmapatha(?) and also Bhagavad-gītā, showing how Bhagavad-gītā is beyond the stage of nirvāṇa. Is that a good idea, Prabhupāda, or not?

Prabhupāda: Good idea, provided you can present properly.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is good. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people will come to this community to see how it is done. I think it will become very, very important in many different respects—for farmers, for people who are interested in designing ideal communities, for so many people who would like to live an ideal life, for people who want to come and see a unique place to visit, because there will be a temple of Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna there, a doll exhibit. I think it can be a wonderful preaching opportunity. And most wonderful of all is if we can exhibit self-sufficiency, that simply by farming the land, we can get enough grains, and taking care of the cows, we can get enough good foods to keep the body healthy. We can produce our own clothing. This is very much needed in this age. It's a positive alternative to artificial civilization. And the center will be Kṛṣṇa. All of the different activities and varṇas will be demonstrated, and all the different āśramas will be ideally being lived by the different devotees. People will see everything that they're doing is here but in its pure form and everyone working happily and cooperatively together. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order for it to really work you have to come there, to be very honest. I know it will never be there unless you come and stay with us there and just show us and teach us. 'Cause I've seen practically that although everything is already written, Your Divine Grace has had to come and show personally a little bit, "Do like this; do like that." As the ācārya, you have adjusted everything perfectly to suit the situation of the present day and age. No one else could do that, none of your Godbrothers. No one in India could ever do that except you. So you are required. Everything is there, but you are also..., you have to be there. Otherwise I don't know if it's actually possible. And it's very important. You have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're prepared to stay with you—all of the devotees feel this way—to encourage you to get better. Our plans are there, we're there, but we need you. You have to be there with us to guide us. I think that this disease is simply Kṛṣṇa testing our actual..., our love for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so that we will learn that we fully need you, 'cause actually we do. Everything we've done in this movement you've guided us with. We're realizing that you have to continue to guide us. We're not self-realized. We simply are able to carry out your instructions. So we have nothing else to do but to be with you here until you get healthy again and then lead us. This is our business now—to be with you. It seems like there are so many opportunities now that are beginning to present themselves. When you first went to the West there was nothing at all, and you created a whole world of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And now the public is beginning to actually take a real interest in our movement and people, respectable people from all over the world, are coming forward to want to help our movement. So there's a great facility that's available now even more than ten years ago. So if we've made so much progress in ten years, in another ten years there's no way to measure how much our movement can be expanded. And we're all just ready to follow each one of your directions. You don't have to tax yourself by... You can just talk to us and tell us, and we'll act. And we're very happy. In the meantime, we will give you the medicine of hari-nāma.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have?

Bharadvāja: Yes, I have it here. Of the ideas. Perhaps I could read some portion to you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bharadvāja: This is a simple outline here. Theme. The theme of this exhibit is "What is life and what is the purpose of life?" So it is in four sections. The first section deals with... It's an introduction, and it deals with the basic topics: "What I am and who I am." And then we go to explain what is the embodied soul. First we show the process of creation, how the world is created.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bharadvāja: I'm just giving a very simple outline now. There's more notes on this.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bharadvāja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation. This will involve films and dolls and other special effects to show the..., how ridiculous is the idea of material evolution, so-called evolution of matter into consciousness. So Svarūpa Dāmodara has his own presentation that we're going to use here. We've seen some of it during the conference. Then the second exhibit will perhaps be a whole group of scientists, and these scientists are sitting in one room, but they're all from different ages. And each one of them in turn expresses that they're having so many doubts. This we will take directly from their own quotations from different biographies, and we will show that the scientists are very confused about the origin of life, that they cannot actually explain anything, and they are saying this in their own words. Many scientists have said things like this-Darwin, Einstein. We have a list of eight here, and we can use their quotes. And they express bafflement, ignorance and failure to understand life or explain the universe. Then we show how... We put man back together out of chemicals, so-called. We're going back to the original man, which... We have analyzed one man, and now we're going back from the molecular level again back to the man. And then we show how the fetus is developing. We're showing that the life and consciousness is there from the very beginning. And then there is a film that shows this, and then that shifts to that display of the changing body.

Prabhupāda: Life begins from water.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Life begins from water.

Bharadvāja: Life begins from water? How is that?

Prabhupāda: Just like the sea. Sea, and from within the sea an exhibition of life begins in the form of sea animals or fish or similar. Then life develops, evolves. Life... Sea does not generate life, but in the material world, life begins from water.

Bharadvāja: So we will show this.

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bharadvāja: Very wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.

Bharadvāja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.

Bharadvāja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ideas are there. If it is properly exhibited, it will be wonderful thing.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These things can be exhibited. That's all right.

Bharadvāja: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you have made the outline first class. Now, if it is carefully done, at least in the Western country, it will be a very, very wonderful thing.

Bharadvāja: We're just trying to fulfill your desires, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do it. Kṛṣṇa will fulfill.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Long time ago, you wanted an exhibit in London. It seemed very important to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, London there is good place. Many visitors come.

Bharadvāja: We have been considering where is the best place for this next big exhibit.

Prabhupāda: London, it is...

Bharadvāja: That would be better than Washington?

Prabhupāda: No, Washington, it is also... London, there are many hundreds of tourists daily come.

Jayatīrtha: Right now there's a place available, a lot one block from Madame Tusseaud's in London. We thought that to be in the same area might be a good thing, because so many people are coming to that place.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the center of the city.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: His purpose was to mystify Kṛṣṇa, but he himself became mystified.

Pradyumna: And he has a note on the word viṣṇu. Viṣṇum iti sarva vyāpa kaṁ māyā(?)(Sanskrit—to bhava)

Prabhupāda: We must know, the whole material world... Brahmā is one of the portion. There are... Aṇḍāntara... How many universes? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Nāthāḥ, plural number. So there are innumerable universes, and this Brahmā is a tiny four-headed. That was exhibited in Dvārakā when Kṛṣṇa called for Brahmā. So what he can do to bewilder Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. You pick up the idea.

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then it will be nice purport.

Pradyumna: And there's one interesting note, Vīrarāghavācārya. He says in the verse there is svayaiva māyayā. So he says, svayaiva māyayā iti anena sva-śarīraka paramātmā māyayā iti vivakṣitam.(?) Paramātmā, in his own body, had...

Prabhupāda: Upendra can give me little honey in my mouth.

Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I can give you the honey?

Prabhupāda: That's... Yes. Avirāma, "always working."

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What has been done there?

Bharadvāja: It has been made into a museum, complete museum. There is twelve different exhibits. And the first exhibit is exhibit of Your Divine Grace writing books at Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, introduction. The next exhibit is Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna on the battlefield, and Kṛṣṇa begins to explain dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13) to Arjuna. And the third exhibit is showing changing bodies, showing how the body is changing but the soul remains the same. The fourth exhibit shows the chariot of the body—the five horses, the five senses. The driver is the intelligence; the soul is the passenger. Then there is the fifth exhibit. It shows how a man can become degraded and how he can become elevated from a neutral position in life. And the sixth exhibit shows that when a man becomes elevated by Vedic wisdom he becomes sama-darśinaḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). He sees everyone equal-dog, elephant, a cow, even brāhmaṇa—everyone, the same spirit soul. And he also sees Paramātmā in the heart of everyone. Then the seventh exhibit shows how Paramātmā, the original Paramātmā, is Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, and that He comes... Then different incarnations are shown. Then the eighth exhibit shows Kṛṣṇa's viśva-rūpa, explaining how everything is created, maintained and annihilated all within the potency of the Supreme Lord. Then the ninth exhibit shows how Kṛṣṇa personally comes on Garuḍa, to deliver those who are faithful from the ocean of birth and death. It shows a man struggling in the ocean, swimming, but he cannot save himself. And then Kṛṣṇa comes down on Garuḍa. The Lord Himself intervenes. In this way the man is saved. And the tenth exhibit shows the incarnation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how He is delivering the whole world by this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. The eleventh exhibit explains how the soul... It shows Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana surrounded by eight gopīs and different animals and peacocks and birds and flowers. And it explains that the soul has eternal form and that it can enjoy, that the soul enjoys in eternal loving pastimes with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Eleven.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bharadvāja: Then the last exhibit is not yet complete. It's a film. It shows Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna at the end talking, and Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(BG 18.66)

Then Kṛṣṇa asks Arjuna, "Have you heard all this with your mind at full attention, and is your doubt and illusion now dispelled, and are you prepared to act according to My instructions?" And Arjuna says, "Yes, I shall do whatever You like."

Prabhupāda: Very good. So it is not yet officially open.

Bharadvāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bharadvāja: Officially it is not open yet. The reason is because there's still some minor difficulties in the computer, and so everything is not... When I left everything was not yet functioning smoothly. So many important people have been taken through, but it is not open to the public yet. But it will be open very soon. Actually, when I left, everything had already been... The computer is now working, but there was some lights being checked out, some wiring. And as soon as that is finished, then the programming will be done. I have sent a letter back to Los Angeles, asking them to complete the programming while I'm here in Vṛndāvana, at least a temporary program. So it is not difficult to do. It is complicated to do it. And I've asked them to make a film of the exhibition and send it here so that you could see it.

Prabhupāda: I cannot go there?

Bharadvāja: You can do whatever you like.

Śatadhanya: After Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you're strong enough, then we can go.

Prabhupāda: There is... And who is making khol?

Bharadvāja: Soul?

Prabhupāda: Khol, khol.

Bharadvāja: Oh, khol. Īśāna. Īśāna dāsa.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just try to manage.

Girirāja: I had a very nice dream last night in which Your Divine Grace appeared. And you were walking around the premises of the Vṛndāvana temple, and there were some doll exhibits. So you were saying that they should improve the quality of the exhibits, because this is their sādhana. So I felt that you were, actually, you were telling me that I should improve the quality of my service and that this was my sādhana, but to be, you know, polite, instead of saying it directly, you were pointing out to their service. And then you started to speak very directly and very boldly, and you were saying... You quoted the verse,

yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

(CC Madhya 7.128)

And you were saying, "This is my order, so you do it for me." I mean, I felt that you were saying that since it was your order and we were doing it for you, even though it's very difficult, but it would be successful.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is a beginning in Nepal. Try to implement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When you took prasādam today did you find a little taste? Not yet. Did you have any avocado?

Prabhupāda: That was little tasteful.

Room Conversation -- November 13-14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bon Mahārāja: It's in Russian language or in English?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, some of it, I think, is in Russian. I have the translation. It says, the top wording here, this says that "Books in the service of peace and progress. A diploma for the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay, given by the First Moscow International Book Fair Exhibitions and Fairs, General Directorate of International Book Exhibitions and Fairs, USSR." (Bengali conversation)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All Russian universities ordered Prabhupāda's books. (Bengali)

Bon Mahārāja: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation with Prabhupāda) That's Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto. That is up to which chapter?

Jayādvaita: Twelve chapters. This is up to chapter twelve. And now thirteenth chapter is also completed.

Bon Mahārāja: In and out, both are superexcellent. Inside, in Mahārāja's translation, and outside, your publication, printing, makeup, everything superexcellent. That is first attraction, when you take the book in your hand you feel that is something very nicely done. I don't think in India we can have this type of printing. You get them printed now in Los Angeles?

Jayādvaita: They're printed in Tennessee.

Bon Mahārāja: Tennessee. And the pictures are printed separately, then the pictures are sent to the publisher in pages.

Bon Mahārāja: Last time they told me in New York... Your press was in New York, and they were shifting it to Los Angeles. About two hundred brahmacārīs were working there and they told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's in Los Angeles.

Bon Mahārāja: Los Angeles. Well, it is all Mahāprabhu's will, and Prabhupāda is our...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Los Angeles is godown... (Bengali) Howrah Station. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a picture of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I have a picture of that BBT godown.

Prabhupāda: Show him.