Prabhupāda: We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya. Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana. This is third, third stage, yes. And the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa stage, who is always enjoying. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. Kṛṣṇa present means, Kṛṣṇa present, His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present. Everything. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say, "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means with His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc. So Back to Godhead generally deals in two stages of understanding, the, to awaken the relationship and to train them. Although our aim is... That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange, but generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage.
Exchange (Conv. 1969 - 1974)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So I went in U.S.A. without any sponsor. No, I... That is the... One gentleman sponsored for one month, one month only. Not even one month. I remained there only three weeks, and then I chalked out my plan. He was my friend's son, and my friend wrote him that "You sponsor Swamiji for one month."
Guest (1): Some American gentleman?
Prabhupāda: No, Indian, one gentleman from Agra. So his son immediately sent me, sponsoring. But still, the government objected that "We cannot allow you to go there because you are sponsored by an individual person." But I wanted to see chief controller of, what is called, foreign exchange, Mr. Rao. So he kindly accepted. "Yes, Swamiji, you can go." He fought. (?)
Guest (2): That time it was very difficult. Passport I have got already.
Prabhupāda: Passport, visa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Martin: How is the human life better than the demigod?
Prabhupāda: Better than in this way, that just like here also on this planet, those who are richer section, they particularly do not care to know what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're proud, puffed-up for material opulence. "Ah, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us enjoy drink." That is their position. So it is a curse for them. Their richness is a curse for them, that they cannot adore such a nice movement. The middle class section, they are being attracted. Similarly, the demigods, they have got very, very high standard of life, duration of life, beauty, opulence, facilities, so generally they forget. Not forget; they are servant. Just like government servant does not mean a devotee. So they are devotee, officially devotee. They, they offer their obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. (Sanskrit), worship by Lord Siva or Brahma, but their devotion is conditional because they're posted in such high post, so they may remain in their post. In this way, exchange. But in the human society you'll find devotees, there is no question of exchange; it is simply love.
Prabhupāda: Teachings of Lord Caitanya, show him...
Devotee: Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Our latest can be (indistinct). All the books. You have got this book?
Sumati Morarjee: No. (Hindi exchanges)
Prabhupāda: ...very strong heart attack in N.Y., I fell down, heart attack. (Hindi exchanges) Therefore I am asking them. So, some gentlemen here, they say that you try, money will be raised here. It will be not difficult. So I'm asking that find out some place.
Prabhupāda: Los Angeles.
Sumati Morarjee: Good income?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because any ordinary room is about a hundred twenty-five dollars. So a hundred twenty-five dollars in our Indian exchange is about thousand rupees. So, thousand rupees, two rooms, who will pay in India?
Sumati Morarjee: No, nobody will pay.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) No one will pay. So then therefore I thought that to purchase one, two house, so that as Vṛndāvana property, because I am maintaining now the whole institution by begging. But when Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa deities are there, there is no income.
Prabhupāda: In Bombay we can go to you..."Mataji we have no more money, please give me some."
Sumati Morarjee: No, that is different, but these things...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so, but Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa I want to make some provision. So I'm negotiating for that. This is one business. So Bombay.... (Hindi exchanges) Huh?
Sumati Morarjee: Of course, you won't get so much rent for London properties. They're also very much appreciated.
Prabhupāda: London property is very costly.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah. That is unbelievable, I must...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are selling magazines, books, and especially our Nectar of Devotion is selling like hotcakes. (laughter) Nectar of Devotion. So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging. There is no scarcity. And I am traveling throughout the world at least twice in a year. And each time we have to spend... Now we purchased $20,000 ticket for four persons. $20,000. $20,000 means how much in Indian exchange? $20,000 to ten times.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.
Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.
Prabhupāda: When?
Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let us get this chance. Simple method. So we'll go. Let us go everywhere, hell or heaven. It doesn't matter. Let us have this chance and speak something about God. That's all. And we don't want anything from you in exchange, that "You give us some money." No. We don't want. If you give us something, welcome. It will be used for Kṛṣṇa's service. But we don't demand anything, that "First of all give me a hundred dollars, then I shall go." No. So... From the other side, there is no loss. But if they give us the chance for prosecuting, for pursuing, this Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement, everything will be purified. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). All problems will be solved. This is the beginning. Now, gradually, as people understand this philosophy, they will understand. They will understand. If they simply give us the chance. Sthāne sthitāḥ. Let them remain in their position. We don't disturb. We don't disturb. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. Simply they will kindly give their aural reception what we are speaking.
Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?
Yogeśvara: He says it is love.
Prabhupāda: Love, that's nice. Very good. So the supreme consciousness and our individual consciousness, when they are in exchange of love, that is perfection. Is that...?
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that this ultimate consciousness is one of union with the Absolute, that it is one of light, of samādhi, of total love. This is the highest.
Prabhupāda: So love, love. When we speak of love, there must be two persons. (Yogeśvara translates) So what is their philosophy?
Yogeśvara: The love of which they are speaking is a love that binds everything together, that bathes everything in light and love.
Prabhupāda: So there is no action? No action?
Yogeśvara: ...there is giving. There is also taking. But it's not... The person who has achieved this ultimate perfection, whenever he takes, he immediately gives it to someone else.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The transaction between two lovers, one gives, another takes. Sometimes one gives, another takes, another gives, and one takes. This is exchange. Similarly, feeding. I give something to my beloved to eat something. He also gives me something. I eat also. Similarly, I disclose my confidence unto my beloved. My beloved also discloses her or his confidence. These are loving exchanges.
Yogeśvara: He says that he understands that we are talking of love meaning two people, but does that mean that... Why can't we think of love in terms of an exchange between man and everything, between man and the cosmos?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Cosmos represents, as he says, consciousness. That is the person, consciousness. Just like if I love a tree, I love the leaves and twigs also. If I pour water on the root of the tree, it goes to the leaves, twigs, branches, automatically. So if we love the supreme consciousness, Supreme Person, who has got universal consciousness, then automatically my service goes to everywhere.
Guest (2): If I feel I have love for Kṛṣṇa, is that enough to be a devotee.
Prabhupāda: But you must show how your love... Simply if you say... Suppose, anywhere in this material world, if you say somebody that "I love you," but there is no symptoms of love, then what kind of love? Love symptoms means dadāti, giving. First symptom. Just like when a boy goes to love a girl, he brings something. That is ordinary etiquette. So first beginning of love is dadāti, pratigṛhṇāti. If I love you, I must give you. And if you offer me, I will take it, I will take something. Pratigṛhṇāti. Exchange, giving and taking. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti, bhuṅkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, give him to eat, and whatever he gives you, you also eat. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And if you love somebody then you disclose your mind to him and try to understand him also. By these six processes the symptoms of love is there. But if you say that "I love you," but there is no action...
Prabhupāda: In our society he has come from America, he has come from Canada, I am from India, but we have forgotten all our family relations, we have nothing to do. We are in a different atmosphere. They can die for me, I can die for them, but we have no family relationship. He coming from America, I'm from India, he's from Canada, but the central point is Kṛṣṇa. You see? That is devotee. Tādera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vās, bhakta-sane vās. Therefore we have made this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious let us live together. We are also living together in a house—we are eating, we are sleeping, doing this, but everything in a society of devotees. Just like if you want to do some business if you become a member of the association, stock selling exchange, you can do better business.
Guest: (laughs) But not all the time.
Prabhupāda: No, no I say.... Not all the time because it is material, this is material. They cannot do all the time because this is temporary. You can work as a stock exchange broker for a few hours then it will be havoc(?). But it is not like that. If you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra 24 hours, you'll never be worried. You'll never be tired. That is the difference between material and spiritual activities. Just like these boys they are working day and night (indistinct). I do not pay them. They are all qualified. Suppose if one wanted to keep a servant like him, how much he will have to pay? They are doing for nothing. Rather if I become angry they become afraid.
Karandhara: Charge card. Bank Americard.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor.
Prabhupāda: There is no devotee in India, real devotee, at the present moment.
Viṣṇujana: So they classify us like that. They say, "You Hare Kṛṣṇa people, you want to take us back to cholera and dysentery and everything."
Prabhupāda: But you are already suffering from cancer. What you have done? (laughter) Instead of cholera, you have got cancer. Is that very good exchange?
Viṣṇujana: One out of eight men has venereal disease.
Prabhupāda: From frying pan to the fire. Cholera has got some remedy, but here there is no remedy. Hm? What is that?
Viṣṇujana: In this country they have the venereal disease. One out of ten men is suffering gonorrhea.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Kapoor: Nil. How much money did you carry with you?
Prabhupāda: Forty rupees.
Dr. Kapoor: Forty rupees?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But I could not spend because there was no exchange for Indian currency, no (laughter). So it was kept as it is. When I came back in 1967, that was spent as my taxi fare (laughter). At that time it was spent. From Palam airport to Delhi, that Chippiwada. So they charged me thirty-five rupees or forty rupees. So at that time it was spent, and 1967 there was heart attack.
Prabhupāda: Any book of engineering, medical, technical, they are all in English. And for writing those books in Hindi means he will have to manufacture some words which nobody will understand.
Indian man (2): English in the West is the international language.
Prabhupāda: They are fanatics, those who are after Hindi, fanatics. Practical point of view, without English there is no exchange.
Indian man (2): He was blasting our society. That's why I let him be that.
Prabhupāda: No, still, you should not say like that.
Richard Webster: Well, I don't think they are restricted now.
Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound. But when the people are too much agitated, they declare war with India. The whole attention is... And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And that is supposed to be the brāhmaṇa class too, the professors. They're the educated class of people.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They are not brāhmaṇas. Those who give education in exchange of money, they are not brāhmaṇas. Just like we are lecturing, educated, educating people. We don't say that "Give us salary." We simply ask them, "Please come." Therefore we are making food. I'll give you food. I'll give you good seat. Please come and hear. We are not asking money, that "First of all pay the fees. Then you come and learn Bhagavad-gītā." We never say so. So those, these so-called teachers, they first of all set up salary, "What salary you'll give me?" That is dog's business. That is not brāhmaṇa's business. Brāhmaṇa will never ask. Brāhmaṇa is eager to give lesson only. That's all. Brāhmaṇa is eager to see that people are educated. "Take free education and be educated. Be a human being." This is brāhmaṇa's business. I came here not to ask for any money. But I want to give lesson. This is brāhmaṇa's business.
| Page Title: | Exchange (Conv. 1969 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 25 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=24, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 24 |