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Evolution (Other Lectures)

Lectures

Nectar of Devotion Lectures

The Nectar of Devotion -- Bombay, December 27, 1972:

If he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he's in the dreamland. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This is called māyā, illusion. Nighttime dreaming and daytime dreaming. The nighttime dream... In this way, we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This evolutionary process is going on.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures

Lecture on CC Adi-lila 1.3 -- Mayapur, March 27, 1975:

We have been given so many facilities by nature. There are so many living entities, they are standing on the ground for many years. The trees, the plants and the aquatics, for many, many years they are in the water. The flies and insects, for many, many years they are in that condition. And gradually, by evolution, we come to this form of human life. Especially the Aryans, the advanced, civilized human being, he has got all the facilities. The uncivilized men live in the jungle, and they cannot utilize the resources. (people making noise) Ask them to stop. Somebody must remain there.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 6.254 -- Los Angeles, January 8, 1968:

Darwin's theory also, some idea, gives some idea. I think he might have taken this idea from Vedic literature. But the gradual evolution is recommended, is, I mean to say, mentioned in the Vedic literature that from aquatics to plant life, then worms' life, then birds' life, then animal life... There are thirty-three hundred thousands of animal life. So at last this human form of life. And the human form of life, there are many species, some of them civilized, some of them not civilized. Some of them have no religion. But we can know from the history of human civilization that any civilized nation, it doesn't matter whether he's Christian, whether he's Muhammadan, or a Hindu, or Buddhist—there is some type of religion.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.98-99 -- Washington, D.C., July 4, 1976:

So what is our real interest? By evolutionary process, after going through so many forms of life, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ, in this way, eight million forms of life, and we have got this human form of life. So this life especially meant for athāto brahma jijñāsā. Simply to understand our spiritual identity, the Absolute Truth, that is the only business. But we are... We have got the intelligence more than the cats and dogs. They cannot inquire about the spiritual identity, and if we keep ourself in darkness without understanding our spiritual identity, then we are no better than the dogs and cats.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.98-102 -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

So just imagine that the tree, this is punishment, standing in one place. I saw one tree in San Francisco; they say it is seven thousand years old. So except human form of life, there are eight million different forms of life. And there is little idea in the Darwin's theory of evolution. That is only imitation of the Vedic literature, and he wanted to credit for himself. He presented it pervertedly. But actually, in the Padma Purāṇa the evolution theory is there. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of forms in jīva-jātiṣu, the living entities. They're passing through. So this is the chance, human form of life, to get out of this cycle of birth and death. Actually, this is our miserable condition. Kṛṣṇa presents these four things as actually miserable condition. We are trying to remove miseries and get happiness. This is called struggle for existence.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.100-108 -- New York, November 22, 1966:

These called, these are called threefold miseries. So out of these three... We are always under three kinds of miseries, but sometimes one is slackened, other is greater, in this way, but we are always under miserable condition. When a sane man comes to this understanding, he is eligible for spiritual evolution. And one is dull, who cannot understand what are these miseries, then he has no need of approaching a spiritual master or inquiring about transcendental subject. Just like a man who is not, I mean to say, aware of his disease, he does not go to a physician. He thinks, "I'm all right." Just like the drunkards in the Bowery Street. They think that "We...," they're all right. There, there is nothing miserable condition for them. But what do they know about miserable...? They are so much accustomed to this miserable condition that they cannot understand what is meaning of his miserable condition.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.103 -- Washington, D.C., July 8, 1976:

To keep them in darkness of animal propensities... Because we are changing our body, here is a chance, after many evolutionary process, many thousand and millions of years. We are going to the park. How many plants and creepers are there, how many animals, how many aquatics? We have to come through all these processes, evolutionary process. So here is a chance. Therefore for the human being it is advised that try to understand the goal of your life. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam (MU 1.2.12). That is Vedic instruction. Must try. So from the very beginning, if children are not trained up to inquire about the goal of life, they are kept in darkness, simply eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that is not civilization. They must be trained up. The opportunity must be given so that he can inquire more and more about the goal of life.

Sri Isopanisad Lectures

Sri Isopanisad Invocation Lecture -- Los Angeles, April 28, 1970:

The modern civilization is like that. It is a killing civilization, ātma-hā. Ātma-hano janāḥ. All these people are killing themselves because they do not know what is life; simply like animal or living. The animal does not know what is life, but he is under the laws of nature, evolution, going on. But when you get this human form of life, there is responsibility. You have to chalk out. Here is a chance you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make your life solve all problems. If not, then again go to the cycle of birth and death again, 8,400,000. It will take many, many millions of years again to come back. Just like the sunshine you will see after twelve hours, twenty-four hours, morning. Everything is a process. Process. So if you lose this opportunity of elevating yourself, then again you come to the process. Nature's law is very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). The sooner you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Such person is able to overcome this process of material nature.

Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures

Lecture on Brahma-samhita, Verse 32 -- New York, July 26, 1971:

Even if we have seen the biggest fish, that is, whale... Sometimes they are as big as one big ship. But there are other fishes, we get information, they are called timiṅgila. The big fish, the whale fish, and timiṅgila means there is another big fish which swallows this timiṅgila, this whale just like anything. These informations are there. And in Calcutta Museum, in our childhood—it may be still existing—we saw one skeleton of a fish that is bigger than this room, a skeleton. It is hanging on the ceiling. So there are very, very big, big fishes. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. You get immediately information, without being a biologist, scientist, you can get information. The Darwin's theory, in most perfection, there is in the Padma Purāṇa: jīva-jatiṣu. The evolutionary theory is there. But Darwin is missing the real point: Who is, who is evolving? He's missing the spirit soul. He cannot explain. That is imperfect.

Lecture on Brahma-samhita, Lecture -- Los Angeles, November 9, 1968:

Whole field of questioning and answering is sense gratification. That's all. But the human life is not meant for that purpose. Animals, they are... Morning... Just like birds, just early in the morning, they began to chirp, "Where is food? Where is...? Where we have to go? Where we have to find out some food?" That is their business. The animals also. But human form of life, does it mean it is meant like that, that they should simply be involved in questions and answers for sense gratification? No. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, atha: "After this, after the evolutionary process of lower than human being, when we have come, we have got this body, human form of body, the business is brahma-jijñāsā," jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is the Bhāgavata. But there is no education. There are so many universities, they are going on simply how to advance the method of sense gratification. That's all. There is no education. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human form of life should be specially engaged for understanding what is Brahman. Otherwise it is simply spoiled.

Festival Lectures

Sri Gaura-Purnima Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.38 -- Mayapur, March 16, 1976:

According to the evolutionary process, so there was water all over the universe. So at that time, daśa-avatāra, keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. Similarly, He became tortoise. Then He becomes Nṛsiṁhadeva, He became Vāmanadeva—so many. That is going on, nitya, nitya-līlā. Don't think the avatāra comes only to the human society, nṛ. But He appears amongst the animals, amongst the insects, amongst the trees. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā there is statement, "Among the trees, I am this tree. Among the animals, I am this animal. Among the persons... Among the fighters, I am this, I am this." He's everything, but just to point out a few... In another place He says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). He is prepared to be appreciated by you in any condition of life if you take His instruction how to realize Him. And if you manufacture your own way, no, that is not possible.

Lecture-Day after Sri Gaura-Purnima -- Hawaii, March 5, 1969:

According to Māyāvāda philosophy, this is twenty-five. And according to impersonal philosophy or void philosophy, it is twenty-four. So originally, it is eight. So in this way... Buddha philosophy means that this whole existence of our body or our self is the combination of matter. That is the way of thinking of modern scientists also, that this body is a combination of matter. Under Darwin's theory also, like that, "organic matter, inorganic matter." They are studying evolution of this matter, organic matter. But actually that is not the fact. The fact is that use, individual soul, that is the real fact. And that individual soul is the seed, and upon that seed, this body has developed. According to our Vedic understanding, the body develops on the seed. This is very practical.

Nrsimha-caturdasi Lord Nrsimhadeva's Appearance Day -- Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.5.22-34 -- Los Angeles, May 27, 1972:

The human form of life is offered by nature after so much evolutionary process. Just to understand Viṣṇu, God, this is the only business. But instead of attending our real business, we are trying to be happy in other ways. Then you can say that "If we are engaged in real business, then how the economic question will be solved? We have to work." That's all right, you work. But work simple. Why you have invented so much botheration? Work is there. If you have cows and if you have got land, then you till the land, get grains, and there is milk, there is fruit, there is flower. Anywhere, you can live peacefully.

Ratha-yatra and Press Conference -- San Francisco, July 4, 1970:

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to utilize to the best possible means this human form of life. We are coming to this human form of life in the evolutionary process from aquatics to reptiles, to plants and trees, then birds and beasts, then human form of life. Out of that human form of life, there are many uncivilized form of life, just above the monkeys. But those who are civilized... Civilized means those who are following the instruction of the Vedas, varṇāśrama-dharma. The human society (is) divided into four varṇas and four āśramas. The four varṇas are social division, namely the student life, the householder life, the retired life, and renounced life.

Ratha-yatra -- San Francisco, June 27, 1971:

We have changed dresses as aquatic animals, as many fishes and aquatic animals as there are in the sea, then we are change bodies as creepers, plants and trees for many, many years. Then we change our bodies in the insect life, reptiles life, then we are change our bodies in three..., thirty hundreds of thousands of beasts, then we have got this human form of life. That is also an evolution through many uncivilized form of human life. Now this civilized form of human life, with higher intelligence and consciousness, it is meant for God realization. It is not meant for utilizing as the animals waste their time simply for eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not our business. That is part of our business so far the body is concerned.

Ratha-yatra -- Philadelphia, July 12, 1975:

So we living entity, we desire. "Man proposes; God disposes." God is very kind. Whatever you desire, He will fulfill. Although He says that "This kind of material desires will never satisfy you," but we want. Therefore God supplies us, Kṛṣṇa, different types of body to fulfill our different desires. This is called material, conditional life. This body, change of body according to desire, is called evolutionary process. By evolution we come to the human form of body through many other millions bodies. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. We pass through 900,000 species of form in the water. Similarly, two million forms as plants, trees. In this way, by nature's way, nature brings us into this human form of life just to develop or awaken our consciousness. Nature gives us the chance, "Now what do you want to do? Now you have got developed consciousness. Now you again want to go to the evolutionary process, or you want to go to the higher planetary system, or you want to go to God, Kṛṣṇa, or you want to remain here?" These options are there.

Ratha-yatra -- New York, July 18, 1976:

So with this advanced intelligence, if we do not understand about the existence of God, our relationship with Him and what is our duty in that relationship, then our, this human form of life will be spoiled. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is checking the human society from spoiling the human form of life. This human form of life, by the evolutionary process we have got after millions and millions of years, and if we spoil this life eating, sleeping, mating and defending like the cats and dog without any sense of God, then our life is spoiled. So please do not take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement as any sectarian movement. It is the science of God. Try to understand the science of God.

Janmastami Lord Sri Krsna's Appearance Day Lecture -- London, August 21, 1973:

We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. So after evolutionary process down from the aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, trees, when you come to this form of human form of body after... Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tād jīva-jātiṣu. This is evolutionary process. We come to the human form of body. Then we should know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is amṛtatvam, to become immortal. That you can become immortal simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a fact. We have to simply understand. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body, you don't accept any more material body. And as soon as you don't accept any material body means you become immortal. Because by nature we are immortal.

Sri Vyasa-puja -- Hyderabad, August 19, 1976:

This is whole Vedic literature. Punar janma jayayaḥ. How to conquer over next birth, next material birth, they do not know. Foolish persons they have forgotten Vedic culture, what is the Vedic culture. Vedic culture is to conquer over the next birth, that's all. But they do not believe in the next birth. Ninety-nine percent people, they have gone so down from the Vedic culture. The Bhagavad-gītā also the same philosophy is there. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is Vedic culture. Vedic culture means by the evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. Here is the chance of stopping transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Tathā dehāntara prāptir, and you do not know what kind of body I am going to get next. This body may be prime minister and next body may be dog by the laws of nature.

His Divine Grace Srila Sac-cid-ananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Appearance Day, Lecture -- London, September 3, 1971:

We have passed through. That's a fact. That is evolution. Now we have the opportunity of light. If you don't use this opportune moment and again go back to the cycle of evolutionary process, jalajā nava-lakśaṇi sthāvarā... So these are great science. Unfortunately, there is no opportunity for the people to study this science in school, colleges, or universities. They are simply teaching people that "You work hard and gratify your senses." That's all. Therefore a section, younger section, they have been disgusted. They have refused to cooperate with this society on account of this disappointing education. And it will increase. Because this sort of education cannot give peace or prosperity to the people. Problems are increasing. Therefore, our request is that if you want to decrease or completely finish all the problems of life, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the process of disciplic succession and you'll be all happy.

His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada's Disappearance Day, Lecture -- Hyderabad, December 10, 1976:

"O my master, the evangelic angel, give us thy light, light up thy candle. Struggle for existence, a human race, the only hope, His Divine Grace." So actually we are in a very precarious condition, the modern civilization, I mean to say, manipulated by the Western people. It is a soul-killing civilization, this civilization. By nature the chance is given after many, many evolutionary process. Jalajā nava lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati. The evolutionary theory is there in the Padma Purāṇa. It is not Darwin's theory. Darwin stolen it from Padma Purāṇa, and he presented in a distorted way of his own imagination. Otherwise the Darwin's theory is not the original. The theory... It is not theory-fact. Jīva-jātiṣu. It is wandering within the cycle of jīva-jāti, different species of life. Tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This is Vedic knowledge, this evolutionary process. It is not Darwin's theory.

His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada's Appearance Day, Lecture -- Mayapur, February 8, 1977:

So the evolution is going on. When we come to this stage of human form of life, here is a chance to get out of this evolutionary process. This is the chance. Asatim, caturam caiva brahma jīva-jātesu. In the Padma Purāṇa the evolutionary theory...Not theory. It is fact. Darwin's evolutionary theory it may be, but in the Vedic literature the evolutionary theory it is existing since very, very, millions of... It is not crazy fellow's evolutionary theory. It is fact. So in this evolutionary theory, fact, we see that the, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, bahunāṁ sambhavān (BG 7.19). After many, many evolution, millions of years, we get this chance of human being, to become human being. In this human form of life, if we still remain a mūḍha, then we are vimūḍhān. Vimūḍhān means, vi means viśeṣa. Here is chance. And Kṛṣṇa personally is giving his instruction to the human being. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Jagannatha Deities Installation Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.13-14 -- San Francisco, March 23, 1967:

Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But your duty, your occupational service, will attain perfection when you try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupation. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no harm that one is born a laborer class or uneducated or one is very learned or one is born of a very high family. These material qualification has nothing to do for spiritual evolution. Spiritual evolution is that you have to satisfy with the, with your talent, with your capacity, with your work, to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is your perfection. That is your perfection.

Six Gosvamis Lecture, Sri Sri Sad-govamy-astaka -- Los Angeles, November 18, 1968:

We should always remember. And Bhagavad-gītā says bahūnāṁ janmanaṁ ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births of evolution, one after another, one after another, one after another—that evolution is going, every moment—so when one is perfectly wise, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Jñānavān means perfectly wise. Jñāna means knowledge, and vān means one who has. The Sanskrit word vān... Just like bhagavān. Bhaga means opulence, and vān means one who has. So Bhagavān means one who has got six kinds of opulences in full. Every Sanskrit word has got its root meaning. It is not... Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got His root meaning. Kṛṣṇa, "the greatest." Kṛṣ, and ṇa means negation. There are different meanings, but this is one of the meanings.

Arrival Addresses and Talks

Arrival Lecture -- Los Angeles, May 18, 1972:

People are suffering. They are simply fighting on some false thing, māyā. They should be given the real fact of happiness. We have spoiled our life, many lives, coming through the evolutionary process of 8,400,000 species of life. Here is an opportunity, human form of life, and here is the message of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa. Human form of life can understand, and especially in America you can understand. You have got better intelligence, better facility. We are not sentimental, simply chanting and dancing. We have got more than two thousand volumes of books. If you want to learn it through science, philosophy, it is also there. Otherwise, the simple method—simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma, Rāma, Hare Hare, and you'll realize the whole thing. The child can take part, the philosopher can take part, the scientist can take part, the politician can take part, the religionist can take part, the public can take part. It is so universal. And it is open; there is no secrecy. It is not that "I shall give you some secret mantra, and give me some money, I go away." It is open.

Arrival -- Chicago, July 3, 1975:

Unless he'll take to God consciousness, all this rascaldom, so-called advancement of civilization, all condemned, everything. All rascals. So why we will not, will there be crime? There must be. This is the result of modern civilization, crime. You cannot check it unless you take to Kṛṣṇa cons... They are all violating the laws of nature. Nature brings you from evolutionary process to the human life, and if we misuse, then we suffer. This life is specially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the only business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Find out this verse.

Arrival Address -- Mauritius, October 1, 1975:

Everyone knows it. It is thrown away. It has no value. So actually it is a material bag made of this blood, skin, nails, bones, urine, stool. This is the ingredient of this body. If you think that this body is self, then you can create with this ingredient another soul. If you analyze this body, what is the ingredient? You will some blood, some veins, some bones, some skin, and some urine, some stool and some secretion. So they are available. So why don't you take all these ingredients and create another soul? They are available anywhere. But that is not possible. The big, big chemist, big, big scientists, they are trying to create living entities. Their theory is: "By chemical evolution there is living symptoms." But it is not possible. The soul is different from these material elements. Soul is different from the material elements. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find the... First of all, material elements, they have been described, Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jaga.... Jīva-bhūta (BG 7.5), the living entity, is completely different from this matter.

Arrival Address -- New Zealand, April 27, 1976:

...human form of life, but unfortunately, the foolish leaders, they are keeping us in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa personally comes. Whenever people are kept in darkness, that is called dharmasya glaniḥ. Glaniḥ means pollution, when the process of life becomes polluted. The process is that from the lower animal bodies we have come through the evolutionary process to this human form of life. Now there is further improvement required. This is the process, more and more. And that improvement goes up to the point of meeting Kṛṣṇa in Goloka Vṛndāvana. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāmaṁ paraṁ mama (BG 15.6). But even after coming to the platform of human being, the leaders, they do not teach them how to go further ahead, up to the point of Kṛṣṇa. They have no knowledge.

Arrival Speech -- New Vrindaban, June 21, 1976:

Economic condition means we improve the standard of sense gratification. This is called going on economic condition. But we require a little sense gratification. Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). This is the gradual process of evolution. Real purpose is mokṣa, how to become free from this entanglement of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is the real aim of life. But because we are coming from the lowest grade of living condition, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati-like that, 8,400,000 different species of life—our tendency is only for sense gratification. Because in the lower grade of life there is no other pleasure except sense gratification.

Initiation Lectures

Initiation of Lokanatha dasa -- New Vrindaban, May 21, 1969:

The consciousness is developing from the lowest status of living condition, aquatic, then plants, trees, then insects, flying insects, then birds, then four-legged beasts, so many, then two hands, two legs, gorilla. Similarly, human, uncivilized, then civilized, Aryans, then our Vedic knowledge. In this way consciousness is increasing. That is real evolutionary theory. Darwin has simply taken some imaginative... He might have taken from Padma-Purāṇa. In Padma-Purāṇa these are very nicely explained, how many species of life are there. They have given account: "So many species in water." Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi: "Nine hundred thousand species in water." Sthavarā lakṣa-viṁśati: "Trees and plants, there are two millions." Exact number. Now, if you are scientists, if you are botanist, if you are physiologist, you can try it and see.

Deity Installation and Initiation -- Melbourne, April 6, 1972:

Unless the human society is purified, there will be so many problems and disturbances in the human society. At least a certain percentage of the human society must be brāhmaṇa; otherwise the society cannot make any progress in spiritual life. And if we cannot make progress in spiritual life, then our human life is frustrated. After 8,400,000 species of life, evolution, one gets this human form of life. And if he does not properly utilize it, then he is committing suicide.

Wedding Ceremonies

Wedding Ceremony and Lecture -- Boston, May 6, 1969:

This evening we are going to hold a marriage ceremony for three couples of our students. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to understand to always bear in mind or always be in consciousness that we are eternally related with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the process is to utilize this human form of life for elevating oneself to the highest perfectional stage. There is evolution of life from lowest animal in the water and up to the highest platform or highest planetary life, where the duration of life is many, many millions of years. The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka, or where the first created being, Brahmā, lives. The duration of Brahmā's life is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand makes one twelve hours of that Brahmaloka. Just like there is distinction of the duration of life between the microbes and the human being, similarly, there are different grades of different duration of life in different stage of planetary system. So the life is evolving. Now after evolutionary process from the lower animals, from the aquatics to plant life, vegetable life, then microbes, reptiles, birds, beasts, then we come to the human form of life, this civilized form of life. Now here it is just like crossing. Where we should go next life? Whether I shall promote myself to the higher planetary system or into the spiritual sky, Vaikuṇṭhaloka, or I shall go down again in the evolutionary process of lower animals? That is to be decided.

Wedding Ceremony and Lecture -- Boston, May 6, 1969:

Now it is our choice, where shall I go? Shall I go down to hell, or shall I go up to heaven, or I shall go back to Godhead, back to home? Everything we can do. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is directly approaching the spiritual sky, back to home, back to Godhead. No more evolutionary process. That is the advantage of this Kṛṣṇa conscious... If you make your consciousness completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa, if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is your relationship, how you have to act in that relationship, simply if you learn this science in this life, then it is assured by the Lord Himself, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "After leaving this body, one does not come again back to this material world to accept one of the 8,400,000's of species of body, but he goes directly unto Me." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "And if one can go back there, then he does not come back again in this material world to accept this material body." And material body means three kinds of miseries, threefold miseries always. And at least threefold miseries are exhibited in four kinds of distresses, namely birth, death, old age, and disease.

General Lectures

Lecture -- San Francisco, April 2, 1968:

According to Bhagavad-gītā, the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, but the soul is eternal and permanent. And there are evolutionary process also. There are nine million species of life in the water. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And the trees and plants are two million. Similarly, there are reptiles, birds, then beasts, three million beast life, beastly life. Then at the end, we come to the form of this human being, and there are four hundred thousand species of different kinds of bodies. Just like your body in America and our body in India, there is some difference. Similarly, there are four hundred thousands of human form of life. So this is the process of evolution. And these bodily changes are taking place according to different consciousness. And the highest perfectional consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our life becomes perfect.

Lecture to Technology Students (M.I.T.) -- Boston, May 5, 1968:

Student (4): Then how can the dog then become a higher soul, a higher form after the dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is gradual evolution. From dog life, from animal life, again by evolutionary process... That is accepted by anthropo... What is called? Anthropology. That they come to the human being, again there is a chance to get out of this bodily embodiment, and you can get yourself free life in the spiritual world. So if you lose this chance, then you again go to the cycle of birth and death in so many forms of bodies. Therefore we should utilize this enlightened body, the human form of body, the civilized form of life, for our next eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). We should prepare ourself to go to that form of life which has no more birth, death, or disease or old age. Eternal life.

Lecture -- Seattle, October 7, 1968:

The whole human civilization is based on these principles. The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Atha ataḥ. "Therefore you should now inquire about Brahman, the Absolute." "Therefore now" means... Every word is significant. "Therefore" means because you have got this human body—"therefore." And ataḥ means "hereafter." "Hereafter" means you have passed through many, many lives, 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics—900,000. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This is the... Darwin has taken the idea of evolution from this Padma Purāṇa. You won't find any philosophy, any doctrine in the world which is not found in the Vedic literature. It is so perfect, everything is there. So the anthropomorphism or—what is called?—anthropology... Anthropology of Darwin is there in the Padma Purāṇa. It is very nicely described. Darwin cannot explain what are the number of the species of different, but Padma Purāṇa states that there are 900,000 species of life within water, within the ocean.

Lecture -- Los Angeles, January 15, 1969:

The modern scientists also agree that the universe is increasing in volume. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa has entered within this universe as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore it is developing. So there are innumerable universes, and so therefore there are innumerable Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇus. Because without Viṣṇu entering, this universe cannot develop. And the first creature is Brahmā. From the navel of Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, a lotus flower is grown. And upon that, Brahmā is the first creature. So the first creature is the most intelligent person. So Darwin's theory cannot be applicable because his theory is that human form develops after many evolution. That is another process. That is also stated in the Padma Purāṇa. That is called jīva-paryāyā. But this is not a fact, that in the, during..., in the beginning of the creation there was no human being or intelligent creature. The first creature is Brahmā, who has created this universe.

Lecture -- New York, April 16, 1969:

Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ sa cen nirarthakaṁ nītiḥ. If that valuable time is spoiled without any benefit, then just imagine how much you are losing every moment. So we should be very careful about our time. Don't spoil time. That is our request. Don't spoil time like animals. They have no responsibility because there is gradation. After this life, they get another life. After this life, they get another life. From aquatics they are promoted to the plant life. From plant life they are promoted to the insect life. From insect life they are promoted to the birds' life. Gradual evolution. They are coming by nature's way. Nature is helping. And nature has helped you to come to this life, to civilized form of life, where you can have education, where you can have nice compartment, apartment, nice food, nice association, nice car, nice city. Because... What is the difference between this nice and, I mean to say, not nice? Because you have got nice intelligence. In this land of America, when the Europeans did not come here to colonize, the Red Indians were there.

Engagement Lecture -- Buffalo, April 23, 1969:

If they are very much inquisitive to make research work, now let them research away how the Vedic knowledge says there 8,400,000's of species of life. Let the botanists, let the anthropologists, or so many—there are department of knowledge—let them research out. Darwin's theory, evolution of the organic matter, they are very much prominent in the educational institutions. But there is Padma Purāṇa and other authoritative Vedic scriptures. They give the magnitude of the living entity. They have different forms of body. How they are evolving one after another—everything is there. It is not a new thing. But people are giving stress only to the Darwin's theory. But in the Vedic literature we have got immense information of this living condition in this material world.

Lecture Engagement and Prasada Distribution -- Boston, April 26, 1969:

Guest (6): Is the unnecessary killing of animals part of, say, in relation to the incarnation, evolution to manual(?) forms. The objection to doing it is...?

Satsvarūpa: Is the objection to eating meat based on transmigration from animal to man?

Prabhupāda: No, animal can eat... The tiger, he is... By nature, he does not eat food or grain. He simply eats animals. So he can do that.

Guest (2): No, he was saying is the relationship, is the reason why we're not eating meat due to the fact that once we were animals and now we've progressed to human nature, to human form? Does that have any relationship?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The nature is that everyone should eat another animal or another living creature for existence. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One living entity is the life of another living entity." That is a fact. Just like sahastānām ahastānam. Those who have got hands—that means men—for them, ahastāni, means the animals who have got no hands. And apadānanaṁ catuṣ-padām: "And the four-legged animals, they eat the grass, who cannot move." So grass has got life, as the animal has got life. We have got life. So this is... Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra: "The strong is eating the weak." So this is the law of nature. We are eating the grains and fruits. They have got also life. It is not that those who are vegetarians, or eating grains and fruit, they are not eating life.

Brandeis University Lecture -- Boston, April 29, 1969:

So spiritual life does not mean a whimsical life. It is, first of all basic principle is, that building character. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that when Arjuna is accepting Lord Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: (BG 10.12) "My dear Lord, Kṛṣṇa, You are the most purest." Purest. Most pure. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma: "You are the Supreme Lord. You are pure." So idea is that if you want to have spiritual life, you have also become, to become pure. Without being pure... That pureness... This evolution means gradual process of purifying process. You are not... You are distinct from cats and dogs means your body is purified than the body of the cats and dogs. So purification required. The first principle of purification are these four regulative principles. So they have taken to this very easily. Some of them, students, they were, six months ago they were not my students, but by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa they have seriously taken to these principles of austerities. That is not... That is stated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Lecture at International Student Society -- Boston, May 3, 1969:

We are evolving by the evolutionary theory. It is not theory. Of course, Mr. Darwin has called it theory, but in the Padma Purāṇa, Vedic literature... This evolutionary process is very nicely explained in Vedic literature. Aśītiṁs caturaś caiva bhramadbhiḥ jīva-jātiṣu. These Sanskrit words are there in the Padma Purāṇa, that "A living entity is traveling or evolving from lower grades of life to the higher grades of life in 8,400,000 species of life." There are 900,000 species of life in the water. There are 2,000,000 species of life of plants and vegetables. Similarly, microbes, reptiles, there are 1,100,000 species of life. Then birds, 1,000,000 species of life. Then beasts, four-legged beasts, there are 3,000,000 species of life. Then, from beastly life, he comes to the human form life. There also variety, 400,000's of varieties. In this way we come to the point of civilized human form of life. The evolution is coming. Just like we evolve our body or grew our body from the womb of our mother.

Lecture at International Student Society -- Boston, May 3, 1969:

In this way the body is developed in seven months. Then the child gets consciousness, and he feels very much inconvenience. Therefore moves this side, that side. Then, if he is fortunate, he prays to God, "My Lord, please save me from this inconvenience, this position." Just imagine, airtight packed. In this way he comes up and cries, and again grows. But after coming out, he does not..., he forgets in what position he was. But mother, father takes care. He forgets, again grows. So this evolution is going on. In the material stage of our life, we have got birth, growth, sustenance, by-product, then dwindling, then this body vanishes, again accepting another body. This is called cycle of birth and death. But in this human form of life one can understand what he is, what is this world, who is controlling, what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is this time factor, what are his activities.

Lecture at International Student Society -- Boston, May 3, 1969:

As you can see, the difference of body and mind between animal and human being. Is there no difference? Do you think animal body and human body and human consciousness and animal consciousness is the same? So you have to elevate yourself. As you have elevated yourself from animal consciousness, animal body, to this beautiful human body, similarly, you have to still more elevate yourself to higher standard of life. They are called demigods. But the final stage is to get a body which is called spiritual body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That is the perfection of... This evolutionary process is going on. As you have come up so much to this civilized form of life from animal status, similarly, you can still make progress.

Lecture at Engagement -- Columbus, may 19, 1969:

Every dirty things. Our, we do not know how long we are changing births—900,000 species of births in the water, and two million species of life as plants and leaves and trees, and so many lives as reptiles, and cats and dogs and so many... Now we have come to this, by evolutionary process, this civilized form of life, human form of life, very beautiful form of life. Why you should waste this life, again go to that cycle of changing birth after birth, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9)? The intelligent man should understand, try to understand, how much miserable it is to undergo birth and death and disease and old age. Don't be carried away by whims. You are intelligent boys and girls, born in rich family and rich nation. Just try to utilize, then it will be finishing touch to your country. Your country is advanced in so many ways. You have no poverty. You are advanced in so many ways. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Lecture with Allen Ginsberg at Ohio State University -- Columbus, May 12, 1969:

The soul is there, but you cannot see it by material instrument. It is very fine. It is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. These are explained in the Vedic literature. So how you can find with your material eyes? You cannot see it. And because you cannot see it, you are concluding there is no soul. That is the ignorance. There is. There is soul, and this body has developed on the platform of that soul, and that soul is migrating from one body to another. That is called evolution. And that evolutional process is going on, 8,400,000's of species of life, aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, and so many species of life. And we have got now this developed consciousness, human form of life. We should properly utilize it. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We simply educating people, "Don't waste your valuable life, the human form of life. If you are missing this chance, you are committing suicide." That is our propaganda. Don't commit suicide. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Lecture to International Student Society -- Boston, December 28, 1969:

Indian man: In this evolution, is it a natural evolution that you can teach people, you can guide people, you can show them the path, but the actual progress that one would make towards the supreme knowledge, is that a natural evolution or is it...? Can that be influenced by external teaching?

Prabhupāda: No. There is natural, of course...

Indian man: But no one person having no control on it. One may get there sooner than the other, but in reality there may not be any control that one really has on this...

Prabhupāda: No, it requires, it requires. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa is teaching? Why Kṛṣṇa's teaching is required?

Indian man: Kṛṣṇa, in the Gītā it says the student comes to the teacher.

Prabhupāda: If it is natural, then why it was needed that Kṛṣṇa would teach Arjuna? It is not natural. You have to select by getting knowledge from superior person. Otherwise there is no meaning of teaching, Kṛṣṇa's to Arjuna. Arjuna was perplexed. He could not understand whether he should fight or not. So that is the position of everyone. Everyone is perplexed. He requires a guidance like Kṛṣṇa. Then you can find out the... It is not natural.

Lecture to International Student Society -- Boston, December 28, 1969:

One has to learn it. Therefore he requires a spiritual master like Kṛṣṇa or His representative. But he has got the potency to accept it. And because he has got little independence, he can reject it. So it is not natural evolution. You have to accept the principle as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why it is said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7)? If it is actually evolutionary, then why there is dharmasya glānir? Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham: "As soon as there is discrepancies in the discharge of real duties, I appear." So it is natural. If we keep ourself in natural life, it is natural. But because we are developed consciousness, we do not keep in natural life. We accept so many unnatural things. Therefore our knowledge becomes covered by unnatural material nature. So that has to be cleared by superior instruction. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Therefore we have to take; voluntarily we have to accept. Just like a man who lives naturally, he never gets disease. But one who lives... Just like you don't find any disease amongst the animals. But amongst the human beings, oh, there are so many medical science, so many things. Why? They live unnaturally. So if you live naturally there is natural evolution, but if you block the natural course, then how you can do it? If you lit fire and let it go, it will grow. But if you pour water in it, how it will grow? So in the human form of life we do not go according to natural intuition.

Pandal Lecture -- Bombay, March 31, 1971:
We should consider what are the religion of the world 2,600 years ago because modern history cannot place before you any chronological list of religious evolution within 2,600 years. There was human society before 2,600 years. And what was their religion? We think, from Vedic evidences, the whole world was in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There was one God, Kṛṣṇa; one scripture, Bhagavad-gītā; one consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness; and one work, service of the Lord. From Mahābhārata, the great history of India, we can understand that up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the whole world was ruled by one flag, this Vedic culture. Gradually it deteriorated, as we have practical experience. Twenty years ago there was no Pakistan, but now Pakistan is existing. Similarly, the whole planet was known as Bhārata-varṣa. This Bhārata-varṣa name was after the king Mahārāja Bhārata, the son of Ṛṣabhadeva. Before that, this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa.
Pandal Lecture -- Delhi, November 12, 1971:

Actually the students, the children, should be given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the duty of the state, that is the duty of the parents, that is the duty of the guru, that is the duty of kinsmen. That is the instruction given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This human form of life, as Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human form of life is obtained after many, many millions and millions of births, evolutionary process. We have already discussed this point. So that is the Vedic civilization, that a human being should be given chance to understand this Bhāgavata-dharma, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means Bhāgavata-dharma.

Lecture -- Bombay, March 19, 1972:

The human life, atha, now it is the time for inquiring about the Supreme Absolute Truth. Not in other life. "Other" means other than the human life: animal life, beast life, plant life, aquatic life, insect life. There are so many, 8,400,000 of species of life. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is our duty to understand and inquire about Brahma. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That Brahma is explained by the author. That Brahma is that from where everything emanates, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Janma, śiti and loi(?). Janma means birth, śiti means stay, and loi(?) means annihilation. So wherefrom everything is coming out, and from whom everything is staying, and after annihilation, where everything is entering—that is Brahma.

Lecture at Art Gallery -- Auckland, April 16, 1972:

Devotee: Second coming of who?

Woman: The second of either Christ or a total changeover in the evolution of this planet.

Devotee: Here it is. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. She says do you have any views that for the past fifty or hundred years people have been predicting that there is going to be like a second coming or a spiritual changeover which will have an effect on the whole planet.

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now.

Hare Krishna Festival Address -- San Diego, July 1, 1972, At Balboa Park Bowl:
Prabhupāda: People are understanding. So my request is that you have got all material resources. Don't waste your time. Life is very valuable, especially this human form of life. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. This human form of life is achieved after many, many births of evolutionary process. We had to undergo 900,000 species of life in water. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions of species of life through plants and trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Eleven hundred thousand species of life of insects and reptiles. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. And one million species of life amongst the birds. Then triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ: and then three million species of life amongst the beasts. In this way, there are four hundred thousand species of human form of life, out of which, the civilized form of life, when our consciousness is developed, that is the opportunity to understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God, what is this material world, how I shall treat. That is needed. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human, this civilized form of human life is meant for inquiring about Brahman, the Supreme, the Absolute Truth.
Lecture -- London, July 12, 1972:

Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabham, "very rarely." "My dear friends, you have got this human form of life after many, many births." The modern civilization, they do not know. The university education, they do not know. The scientists, they do not know. There is a false theory, Darwin's theory, about evolution of species. But that is not perfect knowledge. That is simply an idea taken from Purāṇas. In the Purāṇas, this Darwin's theory is not new to the Vedic knowledge. It is a theory only. But actual fact is different.

Lecture -- London, July 12, 1972:

We are embodied by this body, human form of body. Similarly, we had to accept the body of a fish. Because we are in this material world, when there is water only, where shall we go? We must live here in this material... Unless we are liberated, we must have to live... And according to the circumstances, we get different types of body. So from the aquatics, next promotion is trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beasts. In this way, after millions, millions of years... You have seen that a tree is standing for thousands of years. If I get a body of a tree, then I'll have to stand in one place for many thousands of years. Therefore when you come by gradual evolution in the different species of life, by nature when you come to this point, to possess a human form of body, it is very, very rare. That is described: durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Durlabham. Duḥ means difficult, and labha means gain.

Lecture -- London, July 12, 1972:

Just like a child is being, a boy is being educated to prepare his next life. If he is nicely educated, his next life is very bright. If he's not nicely educated, that will be very dark. Similarly, this chance, this human form of body, is a junction. From animal forms of life, by gradual process of evolution, I have come to this human form of life. Now I have to make out next what life. You can promote yourself to the higher planetary systems. You can promote yourself to the spiritual world. You can get your eternal life. That is called arthadam. That achievement you can do in this human form of life. So anyone who is attempting to get eternal, blissful life of knowledge, he is intelligent man. Otherwise, one who is spoiling his life simply for animal propensities, eating, sleeping, mating, he's no better than animal. That's all.

Lecture -- Laguna Beach, September 30, 1972:

The real purpose is to go back to home, back to Godhead. We are missing the point. There is no guarantee. We have been given this chance of human form of body by nature's way, by the evolutionary process, coming through, transmigrating through 8,400,000 species of life. We have got this human form of life, developed consciousness to understand God, not increasing the comfort from bullock cart to motorcar. No. Not for this purpose. The so-called scientists, they are thinking that we are advancing in civilization from the primitive form, transport by bullock cart to motorcar. But that is not actually advancement.

Rotary Club Lecture -- Hyderabad, November 29, 1972:

The Vedānta-sūtra says, "Who is the Absolute Truth?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is the duty of the human form of life. It is a very big subject matter. So this human birth, form of life, we have got after so many evolutions: aquatics, then trees, then plants, then insects, then birds, then beasts. Then we come to the platform of this human being, especially civilized human being. And especially born in India. For this reason, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that Indian people have got a special mission. He said, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41).

Rotary Club Lecture -- Hyderabad, November 29, 1972:

As we desire, He gives us opportunity. Any kind of body, any kind of enjoyment we want, He gives us the opportunity: "All right, you take this body. And you wanted to enjoy like this. All right, you enjoy." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. He is sitting in everyone's heart as the Supersoul, and even if we forget, He reminds: "My dear living entity, you wanted to do this; now you do it." So this is the process going on. But unfortunately, there is no educational system throughout the whole world about the activities of the soul, how he is working in different evolutionary process, what is his ultimate goal of life, wherefrom he's coming, where he's gone, what is the relation. So many things, we have to know. But we are placed in ignorance on account of blind leaders. We do not know the problems of life. We are blind, and we are led by other blind leaders into still blindness.

Rotary Club Lecture -- Ahmedabad, December 8, 1972 'The Present Need of Human Society':

So the chanting and dancing is not very difficult thing. So our only request is that you take to this chanting process. If you take to this chanting process, then gradually you'll be elevated to the spiritual life. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). Chanting means the cleansing the heart. The more you chant, your heart will be cleansed. We are now, because we are in this material world, we are passing through evolution of many different species of life, and here is a chance given by the nature, the human form of body, where we can stop the continual transmigration of the soul from one body to another and we can have our permanent situation, back to home, back to Godhead.

Lecture at Indo-American Society 'East and West' -- Calcutta, January 31, 1973:

The animals do not know. Because they are not advanced in knowledge. But they have got also soul. Their soul is evolving or transmigrating from one body to another. There is a system. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa viṁśati. From the aquatics. Because the whole world was merged into water, devastation. Therefore the beginning of living entities, (is) the aquatics. From the aquatics, they come to the plants, trees. Then from plants, trees, to insect. From insect to birds. Then bird to beast. From beast to human being. Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. They're all mentioned. The evolutionary theory, it is not new thing, as it is stated by Darwin. It is there in the Padma Purāṇa. But it is very perfectly explained there. Darwin has not very perfectly explained. There are so many defects. But real thing is that the living entity, soul, is transmigrating from one body to another and the chance of developed consciousness is human form of life.

Lecture at Upsala University Faculty -- Stockholm, September 7, 1973:

The animals have no knowledge that he's different from the body. Therefore a human being, if he's under the impression that he is this body, he's no better than the animal. Therefore in the human form of life, one can understand his real identity, he can understand what is God, he can understand what is his relationship with God and act accordingly. If he does so, then his human life is perfect. Otherwise, he remains like animal, and he gets no benefit by this nature's gift, human form of life. By evolutionary process, we come to the human form of life. By evolutionary process, we come to the human form of life, passing through 8,400,000, about 8,300,000 species of life. Then we come to this form of life, civilized human being. So this should not be misused in the business of cats and dogs. This should be used for better purposes. This better purpose is to understand oneself, what he is actually, whether he is this body, whether he is this mind, or whether he's different from body and mind, a spiritual spark. That is real knowledge.

Lecture -- Hong Kong, January 31, 1974:

The duty of human life is to understand God, Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedānta-sūtra, the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā. Athaḥ, "therefore." Because we have got this human form of body, so this is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. In the other life, animal life, beast life, tree life, plant life... There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and through evolutionary process we have passed through 8,000,000 forms of life or a few thousand more forms of life, because human beings, they are of 400,000 forms of life. Just like we have got experience over this planet there are different forms of life, different system of religion, different system of culture, even though all of them are of human form life, similarly, there are other forms of life—aquatics in the water; in the jungle, trees, plants, mountains; and then insects, reptiles, ants; then birds, flies. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa the description is there what are the different forms of life. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni.

Pandal Speech and Question Session -- Delhi, November 10, 1973:

If somebody says that "I have no money," so Cārvāka Muni says that "You take loan from your friend and purchase ghee and enjoy life." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. "So long you will live, live happily. Why... Make beg, borrow, steal and live happily." "No. I shall be responsible. I shall have to pay next life." Cārvāka Muni says, "No, no. Don't bother about next life." Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet: "Your body will be burned in the crematorium. That finished. That's all." This foolishness is there, that this life... We do not know that this human form of life we have got by the evolutionary process, going through so many lives. Just like in our present life we can understand that I have come to this body, old body, through child's body, boy's body, youth's body, in this way. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not manufactured.

Lecture at World Health Organization -- Geneva, June 6, 1974:

In another place of Upaniṣad, Kaṭhopaniṣad, we find that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). These living entities, they are maintained. Their provision for their maintenance is already there, made by God. So there is no question of overpopulation. The question is varṇa-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara, that is the problem. So the human life is meant for systematic organization of spiritual realization. That is human life. There is evolutionary process from low-grade life, from aquatics to trees, plants, from trees, plants to insects, from insects to birds, and then from birds to the beasts, from beasts to human being. So there are 8,400,000's of living entities in different species of life.

City Hall Lecture -- Durban, October 7, 1975:
In the human form of body we can understand Bhagavad-gītā, not in the dog's body. That is not possible. So by evolution, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, from aquatics to trees, plants, then insects, then birds, then beast, then human being, then civilized human being... In this civilized form of human being, if we do not take this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā personally given by the Lord Himself, then we are missing the point. This is the whole Vedic literature's lesson, that human form of life is meant for self-realization: "I am not this body. I am soul. I am spirit soul. My business is different from simply taking care of the body." This is human civilization. So therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement.
Address to Rotary Club -- Chandigarh, October 17, 1976:

One moment of this day, if it is lost, you cannot get it back by paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. So if the moments of your life is spent uselessly, then how much loss you are suffering, you just imagine. Therefore our request is that we have got this valuable life, human form of life, bahu-sambhavānte, after many, many births in the evolutionary process. Now we should try to understand what is Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Don't spoil it otherwise. And that brahma-jijñāsā and answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Bhagavad-gītā instruction is given just to bring you back to Brahman consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not this bodily consciousness. Bodily consciousness is there in the dog and the cat. So that is not very glorification. We should come to the Brahman consciousness, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Then you'll be jubilant. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati-samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). And when you come to that platform of understanding Brahman, then there is question of sama, samatā. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And on that stage you can attain the parā-bhakti, or devotional life to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Lecture -- Bhuvanesvara, January 29, 1977, (with Oriyan translator):

So God is there, and there is no doubt of it, but because, due to our foolishness, we think there is no God, there is no father, that is our foolishness. But what is that God, how He is, what is His business, how He is formed—all these things we want to learn, and human life is meant for that purpose. In the life of cats and dogs we cannot understand God, but in the human life we can understand. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the first aphorism is that athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, in the human form of life... Because we get this human form of life after many, many evolutionary... (break) So this is a chance to understand what is God and what is our relationship with Him.

Philosophy Discussions

Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

Śyāmasundara: His idea was that the truth is in the sum of all moments, he called the organic theory of truth. The truth is not static or composed of isolated segments or parts, but it is the sum total of everything and it is constantly changing. So he says that these phenomena or facts of nature or these moments, they are progressing in an evolutionary process according to a course which is prescribed by a universal reason or the world spirit, weltgeist. That the world spirit is unfolding itself through phenomenal events.

Prabhupāda: That means... This is another nonsense proposition. According to the universal reason. So wherefrom the reason comes unless there is a person? That he does not know.

Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

Śyāmasundara: It's not aimless, there's a gradual evolution...

Prabhupāda:. No, there is aim, that Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge also. The Vedas are there, Kṛṣṇa is coming, giving knowledge, that this kind of playing will not help you, therefore I, His request, you give up all this playing, come to Me. This is the point.

Śyāmasundara: So Hegel has a method for relating all phenomenal objects to this whole, or to the ...

Prabhupāda: Hegel's method will not do because he has no idea. Hegel's method will not help.

Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

Śyāmasundara: Does it, does the spirit, is it the divine idea being actualized by the evolution of history and social, biological and everything...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate. Can you find out this verse, hetunānena, where is the Bhagavad-gītā?

Śyāmasundara: But if the truth is unfolding itself in history, in biology, in sociology...

Prabhupāda: Everything. Center is Kṛṣṇa.

Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

If this is the justice, then why one should not be prepared of being killed because he is killing an animal? That is justice. That is Vedic philosophy. In Vedic philosophy, when an animal is killed, it is said that "You are animal, you are being sacrificed before goddess Kālī, so you get next chance to become a human being." That means he is given a lift from the evolutionary process to come to the human being because he is giving his life innocent, and one man wants to kill him, he will be killed. So because you are being killed before the deity, you get next chance human being and you have got the right to kill him. This is kālī-da, mantra. So any sane man will understand that "I am going to be killed by him so why shall I take the risk."

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: If they died out, that means there is no more existence of that animal. But how can you say that the animal is existing somewhere else? Now, according to his statement that from a certain basic principle, by gradual evolution, the human body is coming. Now his theory is that the human body is coming from the monkey.

Śyāmasundara: They are related; they come from the same...

Prabhupāda: Related? Everything is related. That is another thing. But if the monkey's body is developing into human body...

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: That isn't what I'm talking about; I'm just saying that this evolution appears to exist, evolution of species, from simplest forms to more complex forms. That's Darwin's idea.

Prabhupāda: But the simplest form is still existing and the complex form is also existing at the present moment. Not that from the simplest form developed, developed, developed. Just like development means, just like I have developed my childhood body. The childhood body is no more there. But it is a fact I have developed from childhood body to this body. There are so many. So similarly, all the species are existing simultaneously, still.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: No. But I don't see evidence that all these complex forms...

Prabhupāda: I have said that one, this, by evolution, one after another, the human form is there. Now Darwin's theory is that some forty thousand years ago there was no human being.

Śyāmasundara: Several million years.

Prabhupāda: But we don't see that. Because at the present moment we see that all the species are there existing, including human beings.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Svarüpa Dämodara:It's one in which they put in the radioactive testing, and they find out because it follows the normal chemical laws or physical laws. This is governed by the Lord Himself, by Kṛṣṇa Himself. They're finding the chemical lowest form, and from that chemical lowest they normally try to reduce the, how old the sample is, and that method is very limited, it is not applicable to all findings also, and a test, a very reliable test (indistinct) to about five thousand, six thousand years old but beyond that it is very doubtful whether the findings are really true or not. (break) It is empiric so we cannot fully convince that such-and-such species lives such-and-such long just from that finding. You need more evidence to prove it (indistinct) was existing and it disappeared from such-and-such time but it gives a relative value from so-called modern scientific point of view.

Prabhupāda: But evolution we accept. Evolution we accept but it is not that there was no existence of human being. That we do not accept. Evolution we accept. Just like my childhood manifestation is extinct but there are many other child. Same time. So our point is all the species of life, they are existing simultaneously. Evolution there is, we accept that but it is not that one is missing, one has gone away, and another is come, ten million, thirty millions there was no human being. This is all nonsense. He cannot find in the layer, that is not evidence.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that there is an evolutionary process from aquatics to birds here, plants life, then insect life, then bird's life, then animal life, then human life. So this is a evolutionary process, we accept but it is not that one is extinct, another is surviving. All of them are existing simultaneously.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: Many, many, many, many are extinct, according to...

Prabhupāda: I am accepting many are extinct, but the evolutionary process, it means one extinct, and another comes. But we see that the monkey, from monkey, man comes. The monkey is there and man is there. The monkey is not finished.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: So if you accept that there is an evolution, do you accept that the bodies change because of changing conditions of the natural surroundings?

Prabhupāda: Body is not changing. The body is already there. The soul is changing bodies, transmigrating from one body to another.

Karandhara: Darwin doesn't accept that there is a fixed number of species. Rather, the number of species may vary at any time, simply according to the natural selection. But he doesn't give any axiom that there are a certain number of species from which all other variations come. We are saying that there are 8,400,000 species to begin with.

Prabhupāda: But if first of all you give account for eight million species—you have no account. We say these are the fixed-up species. But your calculation of species, first of all give us account for eight millions, then you say, "The list is not complete."

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: That is not new. That is within the eight millions. You could not find the same thing, you could not find, before that; now we are finding. Your species, you could (not) give us a complete list. What is the evolutionary process wherefrom it began and how it's coming? You cannot give any fixed-up list. That is your imperfect knowledge. You are simply imagining. "It may be changed," "It may be chance," or this or that. That's all.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: But all that Darwin is interested in is in the evolution of species: how one type of body evolves to the other type due to the changing conditions, and that because he has evolved a certain body he is best adapted to survive in that condition so that his species survives. So the scientists have shown that by bombarding the cosmic radiation or radioactive elements, that a gene or cell can change, mutate, so a different kind of animal comes out. From one kind of mother a different kind of animal comes out.

Prabhupāda: But we say that different kind of animal is not beyond these 8,400,000 species.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: I accept that. But I want to understand that the theory of evolution is that...

Prabhupāda: Theory of evolution we accept.

Śyāmasundara: ...from simple forms of life, more complex forms evolve.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. But they are all existing still. They are not extinct. That is the point.

Śyāmasundara: All right. But on this planet, now if we could examine this planet...

Prabhupāda: Again you come to this planet.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the evidence posed by Darwin's theory is not enough to explain...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. I agree with that. It doesn't explain there is an evolution...

Prabhupāda: Evolution we accept. There is no quarrel about that point. But we say there are 8,400,000 species of life, evolution is coming through that. But you cannot give us any list that so many... We give real evolution, that there are 8,400,000 species of life, and the living entity coming through that. (break) ...evolution is taking from here to here, and how many there are? You cannot say. You simply say "missing," "something missing," "something is added," all vague.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: But what I want to know is that...

Prabhupāda: ...evolution we admit. But your evolution theory is not perfect. Our evolutionary theory is perfect.

Śyāmasundara: But it appears that the evolution is from simple to complex.

Prabhupāda: That we admit, simple. That we admit. There is no difference. But you cannot say what is the simple and what is the complex, and what are the... You say something missing. That is evasive. Why you should be missing if you are in knowledge? You must say this thing is missing, that you have no knowledge.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Karandhara: That's not evolution of the species, it's evolution of the soul through the existing species.

Prabhupāda: Transmigration from one body to another. The bodies are already existing.

Śyāmasundara: For instance, they say that during the Ice Age, when there were..., the earth became very cold, and there were great ice formations in Europe and America, that this animal they call the mammoth-it's an elephantlike animal but it had long, very long hair for warmth-suddenly this species appears. Does it mean that that body existed always somewhere else, but it just suddenly appeared in order...

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: That also may be accepted, because just like at certain period, people are constructing a certain type of apartment, next stage they construct a different type of apartment. That can be accepted. But the apartment itself is not evolving; the evolution is taking, of the apartment, on the desire of something else.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: This is the evidence. This is the evidence. You have to see through the evidence, because there are, in the evolution there are so many species of life, say 8,400,000, they are all existing now. They are all existing now. Therefore why should I conclude that millions of years they did not exist?

Śyāmasundara: You say they are all existing now, but I don't see the dinosaur. There are no dinosaurs on this planet.

Prabhupāda: That is not the denied. Dinosaur you may not have seen, it may be existing some other... Neither I have seen the 8,400,000 different species of, different forms of life. But my source of knowledge is different. Your source of knowledge is different. You are experimenter with imperfect senses. I am taking from the perfect who has seen, who knows things. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. Just the same example: I am receiving knowledge from my mother, "Here is your father," and you are trying to search out where is your father. You don't go to the mother, but you are searching out. So therefore, however you may search, your knowledge always will be imperfect.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: Tomorrow we can discuss ethical evolution, how ethics evolved. That is also part of his doctrine.

Prabhupāda: Ethic morality?

Śyāmasundara: How morality is also a product of evolution.

Prabhupāda: We change morality within six months. The most immoral man, you can make the most moral man within six months. This is practically happening.

Śyāmasundara: It also helps the fittest to survive.

Prabhupāda: You may not be fit, but we can make you fit.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Karandhara: Their idea is that if they can sufficiently understand this process of evolution and know its principles then they can control it, they can manipulate it to their own ends.

Prabhupāda: There is information.

Karandhara: They can produce their own eternal superhuman being. They know how...

Prabhupāda: Superhuman... Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they are superhuman being. They are (indistinct).

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: In the beginning, in the beginning you are in the matter. By evolution you have come to, again you are going to the matter. So why you bother in the middle so much. After all, you are matter. In the beginning you are matter and at the end you're going to be matter.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: He had a vague idea that societies or species would evolve toward something better, so he wanted to help that evolution.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact, but not that Mr. Darwin's foolish theory that he is going to be matter. He'll remain spirit but another species of life, another form of life. That another form of life will decide whether you are degraded or elevated.

Śyāmasundara: Darwin passed on his traits to his son, Charles Darwin, and his son's great contribution to the world was that the moon was moving away from the earth at the rate of five inches per year. So what good is that knowledge?

Prabhupāda: What kind..., in what way you give such an evolution? It may be ten inches or five inches or (indistinct). That conclusion anyone can give. Any rascal can say anything, and what is the contribution? Just like modern day art. You just make your brush like this and it becomes art.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: There's a corollary to his theory of evolution that our standards of morality have also evolved from primitive stages. For instance, in a group, within a group of apelike creatures who were normally fighting with each other for dominance, one may develop the quality of sympathy for someone else. So by that sympathy he cooperates with the other person and together they survive when the others die. So that evolution of sympathy, morality, love, compassion—the good qualities of the human being—have evolved due to necessity, evolution, survival of the fittest.

Karandhara: The thing is this whole perspective of evolution... There doesn't have to be a sequence, that one came before the other. They all were there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: Just like you take a ray of the sunshine that's in this room. It's come from the sun, but simultaneously it's occurring with the sun. It's not there as a sequential evolution of that particle...

Prabhupāda: The sunshine, sunshine... Just like sunshine. You can collect time according to the sunshine. The morning sun shining is called 6 a.m., and then 7 a.m., 8 a.m., 9 a.m., like that. The shine. But this 6 a.m. shining will be somewhere else also, although here it is 8 a.m.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Karandhara: According to a point of observation, there may appear to be a sequence, or a beginning or an end or an evolution...

Śyāmasundara: If we look back-say our written history goes back three thousand years—if we look back within that span, according to Darwin, our levels of consciousness are getting increasingly higher.

Prabhupāda: No. We say lower. We say lower. Degraded.

Karandhara: They're basing their quality on whether there's a better level of consciousness and what is more (indistinct) sense gratification.

Śyāmasundara: Technical advancements, scientific. Actually, morality...

Prabhupāda: ...is degrading.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Śyāmasundara: So even though there may be an evolution from simple to more complex, there's no evolution from inferior to superior.

Prabhupāda: That is not improvement. No. Now human society has become very complex. I don't trust you, you don't trust me. I keep my dog so that you may not come in my house—"Beware of Dogs"—and if you enter I can fire you, there is law. So what is this (indistinct)? Therefore we get from our śāstra that even you will receive your enemy at home, you will receive him so friendly way that he'll forget that you are his enemy. Gṛhaṁ satram api prāptaṁ visvastham akuto 'bhayam. He should feel himself so confidential that he's not near his enemy. His dealing and behavior are so nice. The morality is that "Whatever you may be, you have come to my house, you are my guest, so I must offer you all kinds of hospitality, never mind you are my enemy. Now you are my guest." So how much ethically improved the society was. "Yes. We are enemy, so when we fight we shall fight like enemies. But now we have come to my home, you are my guest, honorary guest, I must receive you with honor." That was being done Mahābhārata time.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: Now what is there? Finished. (break) ...fact. It is known to the Vedic culture millions of years ago. (indistinct) I was reading, aśitiṁ caturaś caiva, this is Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa and this Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa was written by Vyāsadeva five thousand years ago. And it was known long, long years ago. It was written in the Purāṇas, but it was coming by tradition long, long ago. So (indistinct). He has stolen this theory, this idea, from Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa, and he has tried to prove it in a different way. Otherwise this evolutionary theory is already there.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Hayagrīva: This is Darwin. Darwin's conception of evolution rests on the contention that there is a real genetic change from generation to generation. In other words, Darwin rejects the platonic igos. Igos is the Greek for idea, type or essence. There is no human igos, human type or essence. There are no fixed species. This is in contradistinction to the platonic idea that the species exist in essence or, as Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, bījam, "I am the seed of all existences." Darwin would not recognize any bījam, or seed, particular type for any species. Rather, he sees shifting, evolving physical forms constantly changing.

Prabhupāda: The different forms are already there. Just like the form of monkeys also there, the form of man is also there, other animals, other birds, beasts. So he has no clear conception how the evolution is taking place, neither he has any idea about whose evolution. He simply takes account of the body. A body never evolves. It is the soul within the body—he evolves, transmigrates from one body to another. Just we see that a child becomes a boy. The..., if the child is dead, it no more evolves. So it is the soul that is concerned. The soul is within the body, and he desires and evolves. That is Vedic conception and that is life. For example, if a man is within an apartment, the man desires to change the apartment to another apartment, it does not mean that the apartment evolves, but the man desires a change, and he goes to different apartment. That is (indistinct). So Darwin has no such conception. He has described the idea of evolution from the Vedas in his own way.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Hayagrīva: That is to say he simply presented what material he found—that is the fossils. He investigated certain life forms on these island during this trip and theorized about evolution.

Prabhupāda: That is philosophic; that is not scientific. He found something and he based his thesis on that. He cannot find out all the bodies, because there are, at the end, some section, some sect they burn the body. So how he can get information of their body, burned? So his theory is not at all scientific. It is always defective.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Prabhupāda: That is education. Every individual person, he is a soul, and he has got a particular type of body. Especially in the human body he requires education. What is this animal and what is higher than human race, these are Vedic description. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and the body is being evolved. The body is machine, and the individual soul desires and he gets a suitable body made by material nature under the order of God. This is Vedic idea, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is existing within the core of everyone's heart, and the individual soul is desiring something, and upon the order God he is given a machine made by material nature. So this is evolution, and even a man, although he is human form of body, he can again degenerate to animal form of body according to his desire. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He has to change the body, and the body is changed according to his work and desire. In the animal kingdom they have also desires, but they are under the laws of nature changing body, and one is given the chance to become a human being, and then he may desire, and according to his desires he gets the next body. If he likes, he can go higher forms of life, and if he degenerates he goes lower form of life.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Hayagrīva: So that's all, on Darwin. (break) This is an appendix to the Darwin. In 1925 the Tennessee legislature passed the Butler Act, forbidding the teaching of Darwinism, Darwinian evolution, in the public schools of that state. In May, John Thomas Scopes, a science teacher at Dayton High School, consented to be the defendant in a court test of the law. He was arrested and indicted by a Grand Jury and stood trial on July 1925.

Prabhupāda: Why he was arrested?

Hayagrīva: For teaching Darwinism. For teaching that man descended from the apes.

Prabhupāda: So he was teaching, and the government arrested him?

Hayagrīva: The government, the American government, arrested, yes. The Tennessee legislature arrested him. He was arrested and defended by Clarence Darrow, famous trial lawyer, and the prosecutor was William Jennings Bryan, who was a thrice defeated Presidential candidate. So they discussed evolution and religion and how they could co-exist, and Scopes, who was teaching Darwinian evolution, claimed, "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship almighty God according to the dictates of his own conscience. No human authority can in any case whatever control or interfere with the rights of conscience, and that no preference should ever be given by law to any religious establishment or mode of worship."

Prabhupāda: This is, this worship and the concept of worship, if actually one believes or knows, so the real worship is that which pleases God. If you manufacture... Just like I want a glass of water, and if my servant gives me a glass of hot milk, is that worship? Worship means what I want, if you give me, then I am satisfied. But if I want a cold glass of water, you give me..., if you think, "No. Milk is better than water," so that, will that satisfy me? So these concocted ideas of worshiping will actually satisfy God, that is wrong theory, that one can worship God according to his own dictation. That means his God is fictitious. He has no idea of God. And he can concoct ideas. But actually if there is God, one should worship according to the dictation of God. But if he does not know what is God, what is the dictation of God, then he is a rascal.

Philosophy Discussion on Charles Darwin:

Hayagrīva: Bryan, the prosecutor, chastised the Darwinists for not telling us where life began and at the same time speaking of evolution. He says, "They do not dare to tell you that it began with God and ended with God. Darwin says, 'In the beginning of all things is a mystery insoluble by us.' He does pretend to say how these things started." And he goes on...

Prabhupāda: That means imperfect knowledge. We say that material world is creation, and within the material world the living entities are allowed to act. So the living entities coming from God; therefore He says bījo aham. So God... Just like our life begins from the womb of the mother, but the father gives the bīja. The mother's womb cannot produce itself; then there was no need of father. The father gives the bīja and the mother gives the body. Similarly, the living entity, part and parcel of God, is put into the material nature, and according to his desire the material nature gives him a body. That is the beginning. Very simple thing. But these people, on account of insufficient knowledge they cannot understand what is the beginning, either Darwin or the opposite. This is the beginning. The material nature is created by God, and the living entities, who are part and parcel of God, desire to enjoy this material nature, so God impregnated material nature with the living entities. This is the beginning.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Śyāmasundara: He says that the life impulse moves through the universe, creates ever newer forms or varieties, just like an artist creates different paintings. But he says that that painting the artist creates becomes better than the previous one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say, evolution. That is evolution. Similarly, this living force is also coming through 8,400,000 species of life, so the next one is better than the last one. In this way they come to the human form, and from this human form they can become demigods or they can become as good as God. Just like Brahma, Brahmā is also a living entity. He is not in the Viṣṇu category, but still, Brahma's power, he can create this universe. God can create many universes, but he can create at least one universe. So it is not less powerful.

Śyāmasundara: He says that evolution through the past history has moved in three stages so far. He says that the first stage of evolution was instinct. The second stage of evolution was intelligence. And now man has moved into the realm of intuition, which is higher than both.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Devotee: Just like Bergson, his idea of the (indistinct) of immortality, does that mean (indistinct), scientific, technological revolution.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, I think so. His idea is that evolution, as it passes through different bodies, the life force, and that eventually on this planet, man will become immortal.

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense.

Śyāmasundara: That life forms are improving more and more and and more, until some day they'll improve to be perfect.

Prabhupāda: After (indistinct), they are living sixty years, and they think (indistinct) sixty years (indistinct). Here in this material, either sixty years or hundred sixty years or millions of sixty years or trillions of sixty years (indistinct). One who is living for sixty years, for him millions of years means immortal.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Śyāmasundara: He enjoys it. He enjoys being flattered. His followers are a bunch of shaggy hippies, so who respects their judgment? (break) So Bergson wants to search out what is the pattern of evolution, how it will go in the future, and he says that because men have progressed from the (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Since you know beforehand everything before (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: You can change your mind. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says (indistinct). That is explained in the Bhāgavatam... (break) ...progress, why do you talk of these things? What do you think, eh? That is explained in the Bhāgavatam: andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās. Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes, then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me, I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others, philosophizing?

Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley thinks that man can take nature into his own hands and mold his own evolution.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Śyāmasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just..., that the vital force is guiding everyone and is creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat...

Śyāmasundara: Without our doing—without anything of our own doing.

Prabhupāda: No. Vital force must know how to make progress, how to do it. Then he'll be... If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything... Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So, without teacher, that is not possible.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: This is the real meaning of creative evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is in ignorance due to long separation from God. In the material world the living entity has forgotten his relationship with God; therefore his activities are only sense gratification, like the animals. And when he is given lesson, instruction how to become God conscious, how to love God, that is activity, and that is real life. Otherwise it is animal life. The religion is a kind of faith, sentiment, but when the religious system is understood on the basis of good logic and philosophy, that becomes perfect understanding of God. Without philosophy, religious understanding is sentiment. That sentiment does not help anyone very much. It continues for some time, then people become disinterested in the matter of religion. So religion means, as it is stated in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how one has learned to love God. Then it is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaja means we do not see God eye to eye at the present moment in our physical condition, but still, hearing about Him, we can develop our dormant love for God. That is real religion.

Hayagrīva: Bergson saw the greatest obstacle to this creative evolution to be the struggle with materialism, and he felt that politics and economic reforms cannot help matters.

Prabhupāda: No. These are different subject matter. It... Politics or economic development can help, provided it is guided properly. Otherwise, if the politics, economic development is aimed at understanding God and our relationship with God, then politics is all right. Otherwise it does not help at all. But this, so far Vedic civilization is concerned, the society is divided into eight division, varṇa and āśrama. So the sannyāsī, the brāhmaṇa, they are meant for educating the others to develop dormant God consciousness.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: I put "head" there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real purpose of human life. Nature gives him the opportunity in the evolutionary process to get the human form of body. Now, here is a chance. He can read books, he can read Vedas, he can take instruction from the spiritual master. These opportunities are there. So that should be encouraged. That is human civilization. Simply to keep him in darkness, and that he is body and bodily necessities of life is the only business, it is a very suicidal civilization. That is not civilization. It is animal status of life.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: That, that would be what Bergson would call creative evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: He saw, he saw change as maturation. He says, "We are seeking only the precise meaning that our consciousness gives to this word 'exist,' and we find that, for a conscious being, to exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly."

Prabhupāda: So, you want..., you are struggling, creating for the highest position, but Kṛṣṇa is giving you the idea. This is the highest position, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), that "You give up your so-called positions, you simply surrender unto Him..., Me, and I shall give you all protection." This is the idea. But he denies, and that because he thinks Kṛṣṇa is ordinary human being, "Oh, how He can give me the topmost position?" So he goes on, he..., with his plan-making, so that... But this plan-making, if he is actually advancing, then after many, many births he will come to that conclusion that everything is Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). But this happens after he is struggling for many, many births. So best thing is that instead of waiting many, many births, if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction immediately, we become perfect. Why you should continue in ignorance, unsettled, and making plan? That is another foolishness.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: In Creative Evolution Bergson writes, "We may conclude then that individuality is never perfect and that it is often difficult, sometimes impossible, to tell what is an individual and what is not, but that life nevertheless manifests a search for individuality as if it strove to constitute systems naturally isolated, naturally closed." A search for...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You have given the key?

Hayagrīva: What does he mean by "search for individuality"? Isn't the individual always there?

Prabhupāda: It is no search. We are individual, always. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter, that we are individual now, we are individual..., were in the past, and we shall continue to remain individual in future. So the individuality is always there, but the living entity, we, we are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Our intelligence is very meager, is very small, so, so therefore we forget what is our real constitutional position. So to bring to our original constitutional position the..., Kṛṣṇa and His instructions are there. The individuality is always, past, present and future, but when we forget Kṛṣṇa, make our own plan, then we suffer, and when we utilize our individuality properly, little independence, and follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction as His servant, then our life is perfect.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: So the creative evolution must necessarily be the evolution of the soul.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hayagrīva: No.

Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal. Soul is ever-existing. There is no question of evolution or..., that it is according to the body. So long he is in the material existence and bodily concept of life, he is thinking that a better body is evolution and a lower body... But if his consciousness is changed, then there is no chance of changing, different bodies. He remains in his eternal body.

Hayagrīva: Well the basic contradiction, it seems, between Bergson and the Vedic version is that of the evolution of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Evolution of universe means, I have already explained, that anything material, it goes under six changes. So this universe, since its birth, it is increasing in volume. So that is material change. It is nothing to the, to do with the spiritual. Spirit, the soul, as we have got soul within this body, similarly ākāra, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is the soul of this universe. He is not changing; the universe is changing, the body is changing.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: So if everything is in harmony, then evolution has an incidental meaning. The meaning is just...

Prabhupāda: The evolution is all harmony. Just like from aquatics one has to become insect. From aquatic one has to accept the body of plants and trees, then he has to accept the bodies of insects. This is harmony. Changing is there, but it is in harmony. Now, when one comes to accept the body of human being, then his consciousness is developed. Now he can accept, because he has got greater freedom than the animal, so he has to make his choice whether he is going to stop this evolutionary process or he wants to remain in this evolutionary process. So if he takes instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then he can stop this botheration of evolution, and if he does not take, then he remains.

Philosophy Discussion on Henri Bergson:

Hayagrīva: Sometimes Bergson sounds like a Sophist in his contention. He says, "Man might be considered the reason for the existence of the entire organization of life on our planet." Is man the end of evolution on this planet, or is he just simply the highest form of life now present on the planet?

Prabhupāda: He is not highest form of life.

Hayagrīva: On this planet, he is speaking.

Prabhupāda: On this planet also there are different types of men. Not all men are the same position, same as there are intelligent person, there is a foolish person, there is a rich person, there is...

Hayagrīva: He is speaking of men in general, everybody, all mankind.

Philosophy Discussion on William James:

Śyāmasundara: From the graphs from Darwin and the evolutionists, there is an idea that...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes we see by some rich men in your country and here also, they will run (indistinct). First of all he becomes fatty by eating more. Then again he hasn't got to do in the office, anything, so he runs four miles, you see. He does not think this is labor; this is enjoyment. Similarly, the māyā, under the influence of māyā, everyone is working very hard, but he is thinking "I am enjoying."

Philosophy Discussion on Sigmund Freud:

Hayagrīva: He says, "If one attempts to assign religion its place in man's evolution, it seems not so much to be a lasting acquisition as a parallel to the neuroses which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity."

Prabhupāda: Evidently he is frustrated, without any knowledge of religion. He had no idea. He has seen that so many sentimental religious system, and he has concluded like that. But first of all let him understand what is religion. Religion cannot come into existence without understanding the idea of God. Religion without God cannot be religion. According to Vedic system, religion means the order given by God. But if one has no conception of God, that there is no question of religion. So Godless religion is, certainly, it is sentiment. That is not religion. So he has studied something which is not religion; therefore he has got so many doubts about religion. Real religion is that there is God, that is a fact, and whatever orders the God gives, that is religion. So he does not know what is God. How he will know what order He is giving? So for him everything is not religion.

Philosophy Discussion on Carl Gustav Jung:

Śyāmasundara: He says that there are two kinds of subconscious state. The first one is the personal unconscious, or those personal items which are highly individual from one's previous childhood, from his infantile history, certain things occurred, they were repressed, and so on. These are stored in our own unconscious state and they are aroused into consciousness in dreams and through psychoanalysis. But he also posits another type of unconscious, or subconscious, state called the collective unconscious. He says that evolution has predetermined the human brain to react in terms of basic principles derived from the experience of many generations. In other words, that my ancestors had left impressions in my brain from the time of my birth, how to react according to their experiences. Is this true, that there is a collective experience which is passed on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That experience we say paramparā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). That is cultivated.

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: Because even if we see the seven colors in the laboratory with instruments, we still don't understand the even simpler facts of which that is composed. There may be seven colors, but how to understand those?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore material knowledge is always imperfect. That is the conclusion.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind plays no part in the process of evolution, because the only evidence for the existence of mental phenomena is a fragment of space and time. But this is not a substance; it is simply a set of relations.

Prabhupāda: He does not know it is also matter, but very subtle matter. It is matter. Just like ether—you cannot touch, you cannot see, but still it is matter. And mind is subtler than the ether. But it is matter. Intelligence is subtler than the mind, but still it is matter. So from Vedic authorities we understand that earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, they are all material.

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: So does the mind play any part in the evolutionary process? The mind?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evolutionary process means... If evolution means to go higher, then from mind you come to intelligence. And if you go still higher, then you come to the platform of soul, spirit soul.

Śyāmasundara: Well, according to these men like Russell, the evolution of bodies, the changes from one body to another, those are simply physical.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. That we have already discussed, that if evolution of bodies, then just like this Darwin says that some monkeys, eh? So where is the direct proof that a monkey body is changing to a human body? We say that there are different types of bodies always, just like different types of apartment. But the living entity, the soul, is transferring from one apartment to another just like we change. We are in this room, we may go to another room—but that room is already ready. But I am entering a certain type of apartment according to my means. If I can pay more rent, I can get very nice apartment. If I do not pay, I cannot pay, then that is not possible.

Philosophy Discussion on Karl Marx:

Hayagrīva: Well, evidently Marx never got over the antagonism between his father and his mother—his mother who was Jewish and his father who was a Christian convert. He says, "As soon as Jew and Christian recognize their respective religions, there is nothing more than different stages of evolution of the human spirit, as different snakeskins shed by history, and recognize man as the snake who wore them. They will no longer find themselves in religious antagonism but only in a critical scientific and human relationship. Science constitutes their unity. Contradictions in science, however, are resolved by science itself." So that, in other words, science, material science, is to replace this religion, and religion is to be shed by mankind just as a snake sheds its skin. And in this way the antagonisms created between Jew and Christian or, or Hindu and Muslim are reconciled.

Prabhupāda: Reconciled can be only when you actually know what is God. Simply by stamping oneself Christian, Jewish, or Hindu and Muslim, without knowing who is God and what is his desire, that will naturally create antagonism. Therefore the conclusion is, as Mr. Marx giving stress on science, so we should understand scientifically what is religion, what is God. Then this antagonism will stop.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: He wants to search out what is the pattern of evolution, how it will go in the future, and he says that because man has progressed from the instinctive stage to the intelligent stage, and then to the intuitive stage, that he will obtain eventually the immortal stage, that he will become...

Prabhupāda: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhāgavatam, or the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatiḥ, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this śloka... (?) Therefore in the Vedas it is said, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they know what is the goal, Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So this is the attempt, how to reach there, how to reach there. That's all. We are not blind, but these people are blind. They do not know what is the goal. By philosophizing, they simply mislead. That is explained in the Bhāgavata: andhā, a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. If you do not know, why you are philosophizing? Unless you have got the ideal goal for evolutionary progress, why you talk of these things? What do you think? Huh? So that is explained in the Bhāgavata. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes; then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me. I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others? Philosophizing.

Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley, said man can take nature into his own hand and mold his own evolution.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Prabhupāda: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhāgavatam, or the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatiḥ, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this śloka... (?) Therefore in the Vedas it is said, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge. They are called sūrayaḥ. So they are always looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Just like modern scientists are going, trying to go to the moon planet, so when they start, they are looking forward (to) the moon planet. Similarly, those who are learned, they are simply looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu: "When I shall reach there?" That goal is there. They are not missing the goal. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is the Ṛg Veda mantra. They know their goal. But they have to reach still, yet to go there. Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they know what is the goal, Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So this is the attempt, how to reach there, how to reach there. That's all. We are not blind, but these people are blind. They do not know what is the goal. By philosophizing, they simply mislead. That is explained in the Bhāgavata: andhā, a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. If you do not know, why you are philosophizing? Unless you have got the ideal goal for evolutionary progress, why you talk of these things? What do you think? Huh? So that is explained in the Bhāgavata. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes; then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me. I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others? Philosophizing.

Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley, said man can take nature into his own hand and mold his own evolution.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Śyāmasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just..., that the vital force is guiding everyone and creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat...

Śyāmasundara: Without our doing, without anything of our doing.

Prabhupāda: No. Vital force must know how to make progress how to do it. Then he'll be... If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything? Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So without teacher, that is not possible.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot compare. The analogy is mistaken. The season is matter, material changes. But the evolution is not matter. There is spirit soul. He is making his evolution. So he has got independence. He can reject and accept. Just like yesterday we were talking... (plane overhead) ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up everything, just surrender unto Me," but because you are living entity, you can reject this proposal or accept this proposal. Not that blindly you have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. No. That is not possible. The proposal is there, but it is up to you to surrender or not to surrender. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says that "You do it." If it is automatically, then there was no need of Kṛṣṇa's saying, "Do it." It would have come automatically to the surrendering point. Not like that. They are mistaken in that. The living entity has got the right to accept or reject. So if he takes, he makes his progress, accepting the right path, then he comes to the goal.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: So today we are discussing a philosopher named Samuel Alexander. He is the philosopher of emergent evolution. The last of the evolutionists we'll be discussing. His philosophy begins with the idea that objects, external objects, have an independent existence. They do not depend on consciousness for their existence. This is the opposite of many philosophers we have discussed who have said that nothing exists unless it is perceived. But this philosopher says something may exist even though it is not perceived. Even though there is no conscious life to observe, it still exists. Objects exist independently of perception.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God exists, either you perceive or not perceive. Is that all right? God, creator. Just like everyone has got father, so all living entities coming originally from a father. So you perceive or not perceive, it doesn't matter. But a father was there or is there.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind is an emergent, that is, it creates a new organization out of existing things. It emerges new things out of old things. This comes from the idea of evolution.

Prabhupāda: Just like there is gold and there is mountain. So I make a golden mountain. Gold is there, mountain is there. I combine together and make an imagination, golden mountain. Is that like that?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Similar to that.

Prabhupāda: The things are there. We mix up. So many things. The things are there and I mix up with something else and it can be called an invention.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: He says that whatever exists is subject to space and time and to these categories. However, evolution is progressing and new emergents appear in all the qualities which are envisioned to the mystic qualities. That the living entity, or life, he says that it could evolve into new things, other things, other than what we know about because it is continually emerging, evolution is continually emerging to something new.

Prabhupāda: So?

Śyāmasundara: Does this follow with...

Prabhupāda: What is the conclusion?

Śyāmasundara: The conclusion is that everything is evolving into ever newer and newer forms, and in the future that...

Prabhupāda: Old order changes, yielding place to new.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: Just like in the past they say there was an ice age when there was no summer, no heat, and everything became ice, so in the future..., I cannot predict... Evolution may carry the events into some entirely strange new way, novel combination. Like winter may disappear or summer may disappear or...

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhavānanda: Or a new species may come out.

Śyāmasundara: A new type of man.

Prabhupāda: No. No. That is not possible. Everything is there. That is the Vedic version. They say that so many species in the water, so many species on land, so many moving... It is all fixed up. There is no question of increasing or decreasing.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: His idea is that evolution is passed through five stages. In the beginning there was merely space and time and the categories, this object. Then there was a development of primary qualities through multiple sense perception. In other words, living entities began to perceive objects through different sense perceptions. Then there was the secondary qualities were developed through perception by one organ. In other words, out of a multiple sense quality, an eye developed, a nose developed, a mouth developed.

Prabhupāda: That is the process of body. I have explained several times that after the secretion of the male and the female, they together emulsify and forms a pealike body. And that develops into this body. Gradually, there are holes. The holes become eyes, ears, nose, rectum, like that. So when the body, creation of body is complete, then the child comes out.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing this philosophy of emergent evolution. The theory behind it is in the beginning there was merely space and time and categories and then this developed to a level of primary sense perception, then to a level of secondary sense perception, then to a level of organic life, and then to a level of mind, mental life. And now, his theory is that the next level will be called deity, or a sort of demigod level of consciousness, in which men will be able to not only enjoy the objects of contemplation but be able to contemplate them, really, (?) in reality.

Prabhupāda: So that is Vedic process.

Śyāmasundara: His idea is that all of evolution is going that way, nature is tending that way. And nature has progressed in different steps from inorganic life to organic life, to mental life, and now to demigod life.

Prabhupāda: From organic... Inorganic life? What is that inorganic life?

Śyāmasundara: Space and time and the categories of...

Prabhupāda: Where is the life there?

Śyāmasundara: Life develops from inorganic matter is his theory. It is merely a higher level of organization, inorganic life.

Prabhupāda: That means life developed from matter?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. How life develops from matter? Where is the, evidence? Why do they not manufacture life from matter in the laboratory? It is simply a statement. It has no value. Because you cannot produce living force from matter. Matter is different and living force, soul, is different. (In) one sense, of course, they are the energy of God, but still, categorically, they are different. So far these materialists are concerned, where is the proof that from matter, life has developed? So why they do not manufacture life in the laboratory? Even an ant you cannot manufacture. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you manufacture life? So this theory cannot be accepted.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: That nature is progressing. What about this idea that nature, or evolution, is progressing?

Prabhupāda: The same nonsense idea. Evolution is not progressing. Everything is there, but it is being manifested when the living soul takes shelter.

Śyāmasundara: But do you think that there will become a level of demigods, a race of demigods?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods, according to Vedic system, demigods... (Hindi:) Aiye. Demigods were created before man was created. (Hindi:) Aiye. Jaya. Demigods, just like demigod, Lord Brahmā, he was first created. From Brahmā, Lord Śiva was created. Then... Created means born, not created. So similarly, from Brahmā, other, Dakṣa, he was created, so many, one after..., Prajāpatis, then Manus.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: His idea is that the whole world, the process of world evolution is moving toward that point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Toward that point, nature is giving chance, but because you are living entity, you have got independence, you may not take the chance.

Śyāmasundara: Your idea is more that certain individuals will attain that point, but not the world as a whole.

Prabhupāda: No. World as a whole will... Just like we are... Kṛṣṇa is teaching that "Surrender unto Me," but who is taking Kṛṣṇa's teaching? That is independence. If Kṛṣṇa is assuring that "You just surrender unto Me, and I give you protection from all resultant action of sinful activities,"... People suffer for sinful activities. Just like we are keeping the account nicely so that when we present to the government they may not see any flaw. So we are keeping account nicely. That means we are trying to save ourself from sinful activities. And if there is discrepancies in the account, that is sinful activity. So as soon as there is discrepancy, one has to suffer.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: These evolutionists, they consider... They don't think there is a soul. They think that the cow is an organism, and we are just more advanced organisms. So we have the right to slaughter the cow because we are more advanced.

Prabhupāda: Now, tiger is more advanced. He has the right to kill you. Why you say you are advanced? Why you ere claiming that you are advanced? When a tiger is there, he kills you and eats you. He is more advanced.

Śyāmasundara: He is more fit to survive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do they not say like that?

Śyāmasundara: But we have developed high powered rifles to kill tigers.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is defense. So the tiger has also defense: claws and nails. So defense will be... When there is fight between man to man, does it mean because man is highly developed and he will not be killed? When there is fight between man to man there is chance of one being killed. So similarly, when there is fight between tiger and you, one being killed, what is your superiority? Simply nonsensical. Simply nonsensical. Therefore our conclusion, "Simply rascal," is perfect. Anyone who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is simply rascal. That's all.

Śyāmasundara: He says that once one has emerged through a process of evolution, once one has emerged to the higher types of evolution or the so-called deity form, he sees that the lower deities or the inferior..., the lower organisms would strive to emulate him, to become like him. Just like the animals would strive to become like men.

Prabhupāda: This is not striving. By nature's way the lower animals, they come to the platform of man. Jīva-jātiṣu paryayaḥ, it is called. Paryayaḥ means one after another. There is nature's help. Up to the human being, that law works. And human being, being developed conscious, so he has got the power of discrimination. Because originally the soul is given independence. Just like Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Whatever you like, you do."

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: He calls... What you said is that māyā is the urge within nature to desire the next step of evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: He wants this, he wants that. Is that right?

Prabhupāda: Next step... No. Up to human form of life, by nature one is making progress automatically. One after this, one after this. That evolution. Jalajā nava... Just like from aquatics, you become trees, plants. (aside:) Telephone. Telephone. Somebody go. From trees, you become insect. From insect, you become birds or reptiles. From birds, you become beast. From beast, you become a human being. This is going on by nature's way. Just like a goat. A goat has to live in this body for certain years. Then he becomes something, other animal, and he has to live in that body for some years. Then he becomes another body. This is change . In this way he comes to the human form of life when his consciousness is developed. Now, when... Amongst the human form of life, there are many species of human form of life.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: But there is always that urge, even among the lower animals, to improve themselves, be promoted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done by nature. That is evolution. Darwin has taken this idea from the Vedas, but he has no soul idea.

Śyāmasundara: But he mentions the point, what is that urge? Why do I want to improve? What is that urge that makes me want to...

Prabhupāda: It is not his urge. Nature is giving him the impetus. Just like when you are young, there is no sex urge. When you are a small boy, there is no sex urge, but as soon as you come to a certain stage, say, sixteen years, you immediately... The sex urge is there within you, but it was not developed in your childhood. But as soon as you go, come to the youth-hood, there is. Similarly, the perfection of consciousness is there, but unless you come to the stage of human being, that is not developed.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: So this urge is what's propels all of evolution. Everyone is striving to advance back to that stage of Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature, in lower life, lower animal life, nature is giving him, "Yes, you come to this, come to this, come to this, come to this." Like that.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the next stage of evolution, the qualities of the next stage we cannot know at this point.

Prabhupāda: No. He cannot... He does not know, but we know. (chuckles) He has no... He is unfortunate. He has no connection with Kṛṣṇa; therefore he does not know. But one who has got Kṛṣṇa as his master, as his teacher, he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is the Vedic injunction. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. That's all.

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: And in this respect man is responsible for evolution. Man...

Prabhupāda: Well, when we speak of... When he is prepared to cooperate with God, that is the highest evolution. That is the highest... Nobody wants to cooperate with God. Everyone wants to noncooperate with God.

Śyāmasundara: He says it's within man's hands, that man is responsible for the next stage of evolution.

Prabhupāda: What is that next stage of evolution? If he surrenders, that is the highest evolution, highest platform. Then simply enjoyment. There is no more evolution. Evolution, ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim (Nārada-pañcarātra). If you have come to the point to worship the Supreme Lord, ārādhito yadi haris, then there is no more question of evolution. Tapasā tataḥ kim. Tapasā, tapasya, austerity, penance, they are required for elevation. So ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. When you are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, there is no more question of evolution. That is the highest evolution. And Bhagavad-gītā also says,

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

He is already Brahman. Anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration, pure devotion, then he is already Brahman. He hasn't got to seek for again becoming Brahman. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate, sa guṇān sama... He immediately transcends all the three guṇas, the sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And brahma-bhūyāya kalpate, he is Brahman. Without becoming Brahman, how he can serve the Supreme Brahman?

Śyāmasundara: So the next stage of evolution, if it is to be higher stage than the present man...

Prabhupāda: Higher stage, that evolution they do not know. Just like in Vaiṣṇava philosophy, śānta dāsya sākhya vātsalya mādhurya. The first, when you have come brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, that is called śānta. "Oh, God is..." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births, when one comes to this conclusion that "Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa is everything," sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that is śānta stage, mahātmā, great soul. Then, from śānta stage, the development is dāsya stage, to serve Kṛṣṇa. Not simply appreciating Vāsudeva. "Vāsudeva is great, God is so great." Not so much, simply appreciation. "Oh, God is so great? Then I must give some service to God."

Philosophy Discussion on The Evolutionists Thomas Huxley, Henri Bergson, and Samuel Alexander:

Śyāmasundara: This man, Alexander, says that in the higher levels of evolution one can see that everything is determined in the lower levels.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore... Everything is determined; therefore we should not try for improving our economic condition because already it is decided. This sort of... Otherwise why you see so many varieties of standard of life? One is born rich and one born, he is working so hard, he cannot get even two morsel of bread. So everything is determined. Therefore Bhāgavata says that "For this material happiness, you don't try. That will come automatically as distress comes automatically." You don't try for distress, but it comes upon you. Similarly, whatever happiness is due to you, it will also come to you. You try for developing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your business. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. That is intelligence.

Philosophy Discussion on Johann Gottlieb Fichte:

Śyāmasundara: He says that there is a gradual evolution towards self-realization if one uses his reason.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is gradual process of evolution is from animal kingdom to human life. When one comes to the human form of life then the realization (indistinct) is there.

Śyāmasundara: So he seeks to combine these two types of reason, Kant set up. There's pure reason and practical reason or moral reason. In other words speculative reason and practical reason or moral reason.

Prabhupāda: Practical, practical reason is that if I think I am this body, then where is the difference between dead body and living? Living body means I am in this body, that is living body. As soon as I give up this body, I go and accept another body. Then it is dead body. So this is practical reason, that without the soul this body is a lump of matter. It is very practical. Therefore soul is different from this matter.

Philosophy Discussion on Plato:

In childhood he is something different from his boyhood; boyhood something different from youthhood; and he is the same, but he is passing through different... That is called evolution. So when he comes to the perfect stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then his life is successful. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, in the fructified stage, in the blooming stage, and when it is fully bloomed it looks very nice, beautiful. Similarly, when by gradual development when you come to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our whole beauty is revealed.

Philosophy Discussion on Plotinus:
Prabhupāda: Everyone has soul. That is real. We get it from Kṛṣṇa: sarva-yoniṣu. In different forms of life the soul is there, undoubtedly. That is real conception of soul. Evolution means he is evolving from one lower grade of body to another, higher grade of body, and in this way by evolution he comes to the human form of life. And in this human form of life he can understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā, that if he likes, he can surrender to the Supreme Lord and go back to home, back to Godhead, and if he does not, then he remains in this material world, undergoing the tribulations of the repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. Corporal body.
Philosophy Discussion on Plotinus:

Hayagrīva: "Once having tasted the pleasures of independence, they use their freedom to go any direction that leads away from their origin, and when they have gone a great distance, they even forget that they came from it."

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. More and more degraded. That I have already explained. He begins his life as Lord Brahmā and goes down as the worm in the stool. That is his degradation. And again, by nature's way, by evolution, he comes to the human form of life. That is a chance to understand that how he has fallen. And if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then from this life he goes again back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If he fully becomes trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... And everyone has to give up this body, so a devotee will give up this body, but he is not going to accept any more material body. Immediately transferred to the spiritual world. Mām eti: "He comes to Me." That is the advantage.

Philosophy Discussion on St. Augustine:

Prabhupāda: Why man? Every living entity has a mortal body. So to enter into the mortal body, that is a kind of punishment. And then there is evolutionary process from lower grade of body to higher grade of body. That is quite reasonable, that every living entity or soul is part and parcel of God, but on account of some sinful activities or disobedience to God, as they believe Adam on account of disobedience to God they lost Paradise and came to this material world, similarly, the soul belongs to the Paradise, or heaven, or Kṛṣṇa, but somehow or other he falls down within this material world, and he gets first a body like Adam. But again, on account of his further, low-grade activities, he goes down, sometimes as human being or sometimes as more than human being—the demigod—and sometimes as animal, trees, plants.

Philosophy Discussion on George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel:

Hayagrīva: But does the history of man necessarily make any sense? He saw it as progressing, as man, here again is evolution...

Prabhupāda: As soon as there is creation there is history, from the very beginning, that this is the point of creation and it will go on, history, until it is ended. Just like as soon as you are born, your horoscope is made, the history. Now throughout your whole life there are so many activities, and after, we also believe next life the history continues. But superficially we make history from the beginning to the end of this body, that's all. But God is not subject to such rule that "God is created at a certain point and He is ended at a certain point." Then where is the question of history? There is no history. History is for the small things. For me there is past, present, future. For God there is no such thing as past, present, future. So where is the history? History means past, present, future.

Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Henry Huxley:

Hayagrīva: Huxley, although an evolutionist, and although he was called Darwin's bulldog, he differed with Darwin, especially on the theory of the survival of the fittest. He believed in the survival of those who are ethically the best.

Prabhupāda: That is..., that can be said fittest. "Best" and "fittest," where is the difference?

Hayagrīva: He says the strongest, the most self-assertive, tend to tread down the weaker.

Prabhupāda: First thing is what do they mean by survival?

Hayagrīva: Well, the continuance of a culture.

Prabhupāda: That is going on. Every culture is continued. The Vedic culture is there and other cultures are also there. It is continuing.

Hayagrīva: He says the influence of the cosmic process on the evolution of society is greater the more rudimentary its civilization. Social progress means a checking of the cosmic process at every step, and the substitution for it of another, which may be called the ethical process.

Prabhupāda: So the difference...

Hayagrīva: The cosmic process is the process of creation, maintenance and ultimate annihilation. He says this can be checked by a..., an ethical culture.

Prabhupāda: The cosmic process cannot be checked, but the cosmic process is continuing in different modes. That is called tri-guṇa. One process is the process of goodness, another process is the process of passion, another process is process of ignorance. So in the process of goodness, real advancement goes on, and ultimately one has to transcend the process of goodness also and come to the platform which is all-good. In the material world, whichever process you accept, it is mixed, both goodness, passion and ignorance.

Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Henry Huxley:

Hayagrīva: Huxley did appear to have..., to adhere to the doctrine of transmigration. He says, "The doctrine of transmigration constructs a plausible indication of the ways of the cosmos to man. Every sentient being is reaping as it has sown, if not in this life then in one or other of the infinite series of antecedent existences of which it is the latest turn." In Evolution and Ethics he writes about brahman and ātmān and liberation. He says, "The earlier forms of Indian philosophy agreed with those prevalent in our times, and supposing the existence of a permanent reality or substance beneath the shifting series of phenomena, whether of matter or of mind, the substance of the cosmos was brahman, that of individual man ātmān, and the latter, that is ātmān, was separated from brahman only by its..."

Prabhupāda: That is also not. He is not separated. He is, brahman and ātmān, they are existing, co-existing, and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the chapter "Kṣetra and Kṣetrajña." The body is the field, and the ātmā, individual soul, is the owner of the field or the worker in the field. So it is also said there is another owner, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ vidhi. As the individual is working in the body, similarly, there is another soul working in the body. So what is the difference between the two? The two is different that the individual soul knows only about his own body, but the other soul, Supersoul, He knows everything of every body. That is the difference. I know the pains and pleasure of my body. I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body. But this Supersoul, He knows the pains and pleasure of this body, of that body, of millions and millions of bodies.

Philosophy Discussion on Thomas Henry Huxley:

Hayagrīva: Now there is one interesting point that Huxley makes in Evolution and Ethics. He tries to tie in the theory of karma with the theory of evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: He writes in this way: "In the theory of evolution the tendency of a germ to develop according to a certain specific type, for instance of a kidney bean seed to grow into a plant having all the characters of Phaseolus vulgaris," that is a kidney bean, "that is its karma. The snowdrop is a snowdrop and not an oak tree—and just that kind of snowdrop—because it is the outcome of the karma of an endless series of past existences."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karma... That is called karma-bandhanaḥ: one after another, one after another, one after another, it is going on. So if this evolutionary process one comes to the form of human being, then he is allowed the discrimination to decide whether he shall continue in this karma-bandhanaḥ process or he should stop his karma-bandhanaḥ process and surrender to Kṛṣṇa. If he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa then his karma-bandhanaḥ process stopped, and if he does not, then he is again put into the karma-bandhanaḥ process by the laws of nature.

Philosophy Discussion on B. F. Skinner and Henry David Thoreau:

Hayagrīva: He ultimately believes in bringing people under control. He says, "If there is any purpose or direction in the evolution of a culture, it has to do with bringing people under the control of more and more of the consequences of their behavior."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is meant for control. That is the Vedic process, tapasya, because the aim is spiritual perfection. If we allow material activities according to the desire of the people, then they forget spiritual identity altogether. So that aim of life in the human form of body is missing, that Vedic civilization is how to raise one to the spiritual platform. Otherwise he remains an animal. First of all we must know what is the aim of life, and then the question of organization. If you do not know what is the aim of life, material adjustment will not make the condition of the society very good.

Purports to Songs

Purport to Bhajahu Re Mana -- New York, March 30, 1966:

We have to come through so many species of life: aquatics, birds, then trees, then reptiles, then beasts... There are so many, so many. There are eighty-four lakhs, means 8,400,000 species of life, and we had to pass through by gradual evolution. This theory is accepted by Darwin also, evolutionary theory. So this human body is very valuable. So he requests, "My dear mind,..." Mind, of course, in the lower animal life the mind is there also. Also mind is not developed, but they have got mind. It is a... In the very lower animal living condition, the mind is not at all developed, but at least, in animal life there is mind. Now, the devotee requesting that "This life, this human form of life, is very valuable. Don't waste it. Don't waste it, but you just to make your life successful in the association of saints and sages."

Page Title:Evolution (Other Lectures)
Compiler:SunitaS, Gopinath
Created:26 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=146, Con=0, Let=0
No. of Quotes:146