Prabhupāda: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, multi-energies. And svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca, and by His energies he's working in such a nice way that it appears that it is being automatically done. Just like this tape recorder is working. How it is working? The electric energy is there. By the electric energy the machine is so nicely working that when it is replayed exactly I am speaking. So energy is working. I am speaking, my speaking energy is acting, electric energy is helping. This machine energy is accepting and a nice thing is coming. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is the manifestation of the energies. The rascals, they do not understand. And when it is stated that everything is Brahman, that is to be understood that everything is working under the energy of the Supreme Brahman. That is real meaning.
Electricity (Conv 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"electric"
|"electrical"
|"electrically"
|"electrician"
|"electrician's"
|"electricians"
|"electricity"
|"electricity's"
|"electrification"
|"electrified"
|"electrifies"
|"electrify"
|"electrifying"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore, this sound kṛṣṇa...
Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?
Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized. Kṛṣṇized. So when you are fully Kṛṣṇized, then you are in the Kṛṣṇa platform. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9), then fully Kṛṣṇized, no more comes back to this material existence. He remains with Kṛṣṇa. The impersonalists shall say merging. That is less intelligence. Merging does not mean losing individuality.
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine. All these planets are moving, rotating on the sunshine. Heat. If heat is taken away immediately whole thing spoiled. Therefore everything is resting on the energy of the sunshine, but if you say that "Then let me find out the sun-god in the sunshine," that you will have to go there.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah... Yes. It is to be learned, just like the electrician learns how to adjust the positive and negative wire, and as soon as it is rightly adjusted there is light. You cannot say, "No, no, why it shall be adjusted like this? It can be done like this." Oh, that will not give you light. You cannot speculate on the science. One plus... Two plus two equal to four. You cannot speculate, "Oh, can it not be three? Cannot be five?" No, that is not possible. You have to accept this two plus two equal to four. So the same example: so long it was not being adjusted to the right point, there was no light. So this adjustment... Suppose there is failure in my home. For this adjustment I have to call an experienced man. You may be a lawyer, you may be very nice thinker, but so far electricity is concerned, you have to call for a mistrī, who may not be learned like you but he knows the art, how to do it, expert. Similarly, such a vast subject to understand God, you do not require the help of an expert?
Prabhupāda: Well, they... As we install our Deity and chanting, dancing, offering ārati. This interests.
Parivrājakācārya: Not electric guitars and all that.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Parivrājakācārya: Good. Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Electric guitar, if it is, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa only, nothing else, then it is all right. But as far as possible, simply mṛdaṅga and kartāl. But if GBC thinks that it attracts more people so they give contribution, that is a different thing. Otherwise there is no need.
Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.
Prabhupāda: How can you explain light without fire?
Dr. Weir: Ultraviolet light doesn't have a fire.
Prabhupāda: There is sun, ultraviolet rays of the sun.
Śyāmasundara: How can you produce ultraviolet light except with electrical apparatus, electricity?
Prabhupāda: Light and heat, you cannot think of without fire.
Mensa Member: Fluorescence... certain chemicals.
Śyāmasundara: The origin is...
Dr. Weir: You're making...
Prabhupāda: There is no light, no heat without fire. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: This is a question of... Even suppose Kṛṣṇa says, "This beautiful flower I am." So you are seeing this beautiful flower. So why do you not understand if Kṛṣṇa says like that? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ manaḥ eva ca bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4) "These eight (indistinct), eight kinds of material elements, they are My energy." So you are sitting on the ground, bhūmiḥ, so if you understand that it is one of the energy of Kṛṣṇa.... Just like the electric fan is running on, everyone knows there is electric energy. Similarly, if you see the ground, bhūmiḥ, as expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, what is the difficulty? Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: The Deity is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: But only if you know the process of it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this electric wire is Kṛṣṇa..., er, is electricity. One who knows the process he can derive electricity out of it.
Śyāmasundara: Otherwise it's just wire.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: How the energy is diverted, how by different manipulation the energy is working differently. Just like electric energy, by different handling it is creating heater and it is creating cooler. Just opposite. But the same electric energy. So similarly, these energies, living energy, how it is being directed, which way it is going, how it is fructifying in the next life, so they do not know. They do not know. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is very simplified. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). You are covered by this dress, by this shirt. When this shirt is not workable you change it. Similarly, this body is just like shirt and coat, when it is no longer workable, we have to change.
Bob: ...does he still get sick?
Prabhupāda: No. Even if he gets sick, that is very temporary. Just like this fan is moving. If you disconnect with the electric power, then the fan will move for a moment. That movement is not due to the electric current. That is force. What is called physically, this...
Śyāmasundara: Momentum.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Momentum.
Prabhupāda: Momentum. But as soon as he stops, no more movement. Similarly, a devotee who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, even he's found that he's suffering from material consequences, that is temporary. Therefore a devotee does not take any material miseries as misery. He takes as Kṛṣṇa's, God's, mercy.
Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?
Bob: It is stealing.
Prabhupāda: Because he is not fit to get it, so God does not supply it. So we do not take anything as chance. We take everything as plan. But because God's omnipotency is so subtle, we cannot see how things happen. Therefore we say "It is a chance, chance of physical arrangement." Just like in the airport, as soon as I step on the door it becomes opened. It is not chance. A child will see it is a chance: "Oh, how it is? I wanted to go and the door is already open." He takes it a chance. That is poor fund of knowledge. There is arrangement, nice arrangement, electrical arrangement. So to a poor fund of knowledge it becomes a chance, and to the sober mind it is not chance; it is arranged by higher authority. Another opposite point is nobody wants to die.
Prabhupāda: We cannot utilize the time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is the necessity of human life. Therefore, in the history of India there is opulence, but that opulence is of different kind. By nature they used to enjoy life—enough jewels, enough gold, enough silk, enough food, enough metals. You see? By natural product. They could find where there is a big hill of gold only. These are there. And actually gold is found in some mine within the material arrangement. Why there should not be any hill of gold? As there are hills of stone, and marble, why not gold? You do not know. Your utensils are only plastic. It is worth nothing. So that was their material advancement. Gold, silver, jewels, corals, sapphire, diamond. Just see Kṛṣṇa's palace described. Not these rascal chairs, cushions, but with ivory, gold. And the cushion is as soft as the foam of milk. (laughter) These things are description there. And the rooms are bedecked with jewels. You don't require this electric light at night. And outside these parijāta flowers.
Prabhupāda: So if this energy, electric energy, can work so wonderful, how much wonderful energies are there in Kṛṣṇa that He is working and it is coming out, automatically. You say..., cannot explain, you will say it is nature. No. The same working is there. Just like if you paint one flower, you have to take the brush, color, and nicely... You cannot do as nice. So Kṛṣṇa has also to do the same thing, but the energy is so fine and quick, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Kṛṣṇa says and this will go on. Just like if you want to create something, a house, you have to apply, your engineer, your contractor, the ingredients. But Kṛṣṇa also will do the same thing. But His energies are so fine and expert, He desires, "Let there be a skyscraper," immediately there is. But the process is there. Don't think it has come automatically. The same thing. If you want to speak to a friend a thousand miles away, you have to go there and find him, or he has to come. The process is there. By electricity, immediately he comes. Is it not be possible? Process is there that he has to come or you have to go. But by electricity, it is shortened.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Brahmānanda: They should be able to demonstrate it in a laboratory.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Science says that: "observation and experiment." That is science. You observe how things are going on. And you experiment. Then it is perfect. But you cannot make experiment, you simply observe, that, a child also can also observe, and he can speak something nonsense. Just like in our childhood, we were observing the gramophone box, that within the box there is some man who's singing. And electric fan. I was thinking: There must be some ghost. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is perfect knowledge. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence, the laws of nature is working." This is intelligence. We are teaching people this intelligence. That's all. We don't decry that your studying of the laws of nature is useless. We don't say that. We say: "Not so much. This is imperfect. Go forward still." And that is perfection. You are a science student. By your scientific knowledge, you prove that behind these laws, there is Kṛṣṇa. Then your scientific knowledge is perfect. Either from the chemical department or physical department or electrical department. Any department. It doesn't matter. Through that department you go to the ultimate center. Just like here is center. And there are so many spokes. So many spokes. So whichever spoke you may be, come to the center. That is your perfection. The spokes may be of different direction. Like that. But center is Kṛṣṇa. The energy, central energy is Kṛṣṇa. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13).
Prabhupāda: They have discovered one watch machine. You have seen that? You can, you can immediately know what is the time where all the important places.
Brahmānanda: By a dial?
Prabhupāda: No, by electricity.
Karandhara: Yes. It has a dial on it. You turn the dial and it tells you the time in different places... (pause)
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana, there is a place called Nidhuvana.
Devotee: Nidhuvana?
Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana. So that was a place... Still people go to visit. So one Bhagavān dāsa Bābājī, he was chanting, and in the middle of his chanting he made (makes sound with hands like clapping) like this. So his disciples... (pause) Yes. His disciples asked him: "Sir, why did you (makes clapping sound) do like this?" "So there was a goat entered Nidhuvana. So I drove it away." So where is that machine by which you can see...? It is not the time, but see the activities of everywhere? But that is possible. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Too hot. Electric fan required. So we are always in miserable condition. We are trying to avoid these waves so that I may not be in miserable condition by wetting my shoes. So there is always struggle. Nature is trying to put me in miserable condition, and I am trying to save myself or to keep myself comfortable. This is called struggle for existence. They say that the world is imperfect. They, do they not admit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somethings which are already existing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they're already existing. That's all right. But what is the nature's activities? It is some power. Is it not? So power means energy. As soon as you say energy, there must be some source of energy. Just like you say: electric energy. So there is source, the electric powerhouse. How can you deny it? Electricity's not coming automatically. You have to install powerhouse, machine, generating machine. Then the electricity will come. And the resident engineer. Who is the engineer? What is the machine? And then electricity, there is question of electricity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So matter can be converted to spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like expert electrician, the same energy, electric, converting into heat, converting into refrigerator. The energy is the same. Both places the electricity is working, but by his expert management, one is heater, one is cooler. But heat and cool completely different, just opposite. That is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Ah. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. Both matter and spirit, they are energy of the Supreme. So the energy or the energetic—non-different. But by His arrangement, one is working as superior, one is working as inferior. The same example, that the same electric energy is acting as cooler and acting as heater. But the energy is the same. Similarly, originally the energy is God's energy. So God's energy and God, there is no difference.
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: If someone looks at the Deity of Kṛṣṇa and thinks it's only stone or wood, for him it's still material?
Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance. How it can be material? The stone is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like electricity energy is there everywhere. The electrician knows how to utilize it, how to take electricity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, even in the stone. The devotees know how to utilize stone to appreciate Kṛṣṇa. The devotees know. The rascal, they do not know. Because the devotee has no other view than Kṛṣṇa. Why stone should be without Kṛṣṇa? Here is Kṛṣṇa. That is real oneness. And the Māyāvādī philosopher they say oneness, but divide. This is stone, this is not Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult.
Mr. Wadell: Well, it is both difficult and not difficult.
Prabhupāda: No. Everything, there is a Bengali word, yanra karya tare saje, anya loke lati baje. (?) Anything, if one is practiced to do, he can do it very easily. And for others, it is just like striking with a rod. Anya loke lati baje. Suppose if there is some difficulty in electricity, I do not know anything. It will be very, very difficult task for me. But anyone who knows, immediately he connects two wires, there is light. It is simply to know the art.
Revatīnandana: It happened. In Scotland there is one university, Stirling University, and the queen visited there. And she was treated in a very insulting way by the students, and as a result of that, the university and those students, they were put into a great deal of trouble afterward. Of course, the queen is not supreme anymore, but she still is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am giving an example. No, officially, she is the supreme of England. That you cannot deny. If you do so, then your position, you know. Similarly, anything... "Call a spade a spade." If everyone says that this is electric lamp, and if you say, "No, I don't say," then what can be done?
Student (3): We can see an electric lamp, but we can't see Kṛṣṇa.
Student (3): My seeing the electric lamp tells me that it is...
Prabhupāda: Now, now, now, but you are seeing the electric lamp, but why do you believe so much on your seeing power? You cannot see so many things, even though you have got the eyes.
Student (3): I have no reason not to believe.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not good. If you say, "I cannot see beyond this wall. There is nothing," nobody will take your words.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.
Prabhupāda: Because we are defective. This material existence means defective existence. This defection not there.
Dr. Wolfe: All the microscopes, and electric things, all these things, they are also defective.
Prabhupāda: Because it is made by the imperfect senses. So it must be defective. If you construct something with your defective knowledge, then it must be defective.
Prabhupāda: They can make everything, but why, why don't you make a sun, imitation sun, so that so many electricity lights can be saved? But these rascals say everything, but cannot do anything. (laughs) That is their position. They can model a universe. First of all make a model of moon like this so that in the dark night we won't have to spend so much money. Now there is energy shortage. But they cannot do anything. Still, they'll speak big, big words. That's all. Simply to take money from the taxpayer. Why do they not manufacture an imitation moon so that we can save the electric energy? Imitation sun, imitation moon, they know the composition of the moon, the composition of the sun. Why do they not make? Simply talks. And fools are befooled by their words. Where is that power? Now in the Vedic literature it is described: yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Unlimited temperature. This is creation of Govinda. You create something like that so that in, what is called, Iceland, just have aśeṣa-tejāḥ... Eh?
Prabhupāda: No, no, certain conditions, that is not... That is vague. You say what is that condition. Then you are authority.
Prajāpati: Electrical charge in the heart.
Prabhupāda: Then do it, do it. Electricity is there.
Prajāpati: Well, they are able to take some people. Their heart has stopped, they seem to be dead, they inject electrical nodes in the heart and they bring them back to life.
Prabhupāda: Back to life how long?
Prajāpati: Life can continue.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are also living entities. They are very glowing, fiery. Therefore the whole sun planet is glowing.
Rūpānuga: By their bodily light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is only one sun planet, and in Vaikuṇṭha all the planets are like sun. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, na tad bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ (BG 15.6). There is no necessity of electricity or moonlight or sunlight. Here it is necessity because here only glowing planet is the sun. But in the Vaikuṇṭha, each and every planet is glowing. Therefore there is no need of sun. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no necessity of illumination of sun, moon or electricity.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: We get the information from Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no need of sunshine. So how it can be cold? Sunshine is required where it is cold, but there is no need of sunshine. Naturally, the conclusion should be it is neither cold neither hot. It is enjoyable. Cold, heat, all troubles, they are in the material world. The spiritual world is simply blissful life, enjoying. (break) As soon as the light is there, the darkness is gone. So why in the night there is darkness if he is light? Why in the night meeting these rascals require other light, electric light, if he is light? What kind of light he is? If he is light, at least they could save the expenditure of electric lights. But why does he use electric light?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business.
Hṛdayānanda: They also say that there's no resting place. They say that energy has no resting place.
Prabhupāda: But that is absurd because we see the energy is coming from the powerhouse, electric energy. How you cannot deny?
Karandhara: The energy is just generated there, but it is not created there.
Prabhupāda: Generated, you simply change the name. What is the difference between generated and created?
Karandhara: Well, created means to be born or to start.
Prabhupāda: Yes, born. The child is created. There was no child.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a..." yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on. He wants this facility. Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all.
Mr. Sar: Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām.
Prabhupāda: Avyakta. This avyakta... They do not find where is the point where sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Just like one who knows the electric button, he push. He does not know that. Mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: You have to work the main switch.
Prabhupāda: Yes! That is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. You must know how to do it.
Prabhupāda: We, we are prepared to offer everything. And be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our mission. Not by eating and sleeping, become rogues and thieves and rascals. That we will not allow. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. (Hindi conversation for a few sentences) Why unemployment? There is no scarcity (of) water. Just have a big well. Electricity pump water. Oh, immediately, it will be all green. Immediately. (Hindi for a while) Jayo! Hare Kṛṣṇa! (break) ...all round, for the benefit of the human society. You'll be honored everywhere. Everywhere, any part of the world. And automatically these bogus avatāra, incarnations, God, and yogis and swamis will be all doomed. You see? These rascal society, avatāra, "Bhagavān," incarnations, yogis, these rascals will be doomed.
Prabhupāda: But maybe it was being done by somebody.
Indian man (3): They must be... In those days... Those were the departurous(?) days when he was born.
Prabhupāda: This thing is being done, I know, in a big temple in Mathurā. When there is big crowd, they put off the electric, and the rascal goes within the woman. I know that. In Vārāṇasī also, in Viśvanātha Temple. They do like this.
Indian man (4): I know, I have seen. That is why this injunction... So now you are satisfied that these injunctions are right.
Prabhupāda: No, you... My point was that because something is not meant for me, and it is in the law...
Mr. Sar: None of the guṇas are there.
Prabhupāda: Just like an electrician. He is, by his knowledge, he is, the same box, he's turning to be a refrigerator. And again heater. He knows how, the art. So the heat and the coolness is coming from the engineer. But he's not there. He's not there.
Dr. Patel: Yogamāyā is the superior māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, for Kṛṣṇa, all māyās are the same. Just for engineer, the electricity is the same both in the refrigerator and the heater. For us we see different, that "This is hot and this is cold." (break) ...when you are freed from all these māyās. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. (break) ...the sample of Kṛṣṇa's mercy...?
Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all. That does not mean, because he has got money, he has got all knowledge.
Prabhupāda: For Him there is no external, internal. For Kṛṣṇa there is no external, internal. You cannot understand this. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. For me there is external, internal, but for Kṛṣṇa there is no external, internal because His energy... The external energy is also His energy, and internal is His energy. Therefore He's everything. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) For electrician there is no difference between refrigerator and heater. He knows how to adjust it. For me, this is heater; this is refrigerator.
Prabhupāda: ...says, ātma-māyayā. Ātma-māyayā, His own energy. So the material energy and the spiritual, both of them, are His energy. So even if He appears in a material body, it does not act as material body. It act as spiritual body. Just like same example: The expert electrician, he can turn the refrigerator into heater. Is it not? That is the way. Hare Kṛṣṇa. For Him there is nothing, no distinction, because He is absolute. Similarly, to take the side of the devotee and to kill the enemy of Kṛṣṇa, they are all the same.
Prabhupāda: When the energy goes to the hands, it acts differently. The electricity energy is the same, but sometimes by working on the dictaphone, sometimes on the microphone, sometimes in electric heater, sometimes in refrigerator... The different apparatuses are there, but the energy is the same, equal. In that sense, the communistic idea that whatever energy is there, whatever resources are there, they should be equally distributed, that is nature's way. From the body we can understand that when the foodstuff turns into secretion, it goes to the heart and becomes blood. The blood is transfused through different veins to different parts of the body, and you will find everybody is satisfied.
Yogeśvara: No, I think you're speaking about energy for like running machinery? Like solar energy and petrol energy, like that kind of energy?
Robert Gouiran: Well, the energy for this now, for this recorder.
Prabhupāda: Electric energy.
Robert Gouiran: For cooking your food.
Prabhupāda: Electric energy.
Robert Gouiran: Any energy you need to survive.
Prabhupāda: So energy comes from a source. Just like this electric energy is coming from the electric powerhouse. There is a resident engineer who is... What is called? Chilling (?)?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Generating?
Prabhupāda: Generating, yes, generator. He is somehow or other, putting the machine to get out...
Yogeśvara: Turning, turning the generator.
Prabhupāda: Engineer. So the electricity is being generated. So behind this energy there is the living entity, engineer. Otherwise it is useless. No more energy. If you drive away that resident engineer, the electricity will fail. No more energy.
Robert Gouiran: I see that, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to understand like that. So behind this big machine which is generating electricity, there is a living being, who is pushing the button.
Robert Gouiran: Who organized it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without that, it is nothing.
Prabhupāda: A devotee, although sees God in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. "He's my Lord." But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatest enemy. That is not... Material civilization is very, very backward position. Māyā-mohita. He'll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he'll forget God. That is the disease of the western world. They are very much fond of these stones and bricks, and therefore they have no knowledge about God. This electricity, the electrons, the radio, this, everything machine and stones. They have got, forgotten God. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. The more you materially advance, you forget God. So human life is meant for reviving our relationship with God, but if you forget God, then what kind of civilization it is? You are forgetting your real business.
Paramahaṁsa: But how do we know what, how do we know when we should accept this adversity? Sometimes people artificially...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Adversity, not always to accept. But you have to follow the regulative principle enjoined in the śāstras. That is, in one sense... Suppose you are accustomed to certain type of, standard of living, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake, you have to give it up. That kind of adversity. That is not actually adversity, but he thinks that "I have taken this voluntary..." What is this, electric? So not a single useful tree. These trees are no fruits, no flowers.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible.
Guest (1): Well, that's precisely the point. What is the purpose? What is the sense, if there is any, or does the very question make sense?
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless understand what is that "anything..." First of all, you have to understand what is that "anything." Anything... Just like this book, this table, this bell, the electric they are so many things. So you can take any one of them; that is anything. What is your idea of anything?
Guest (1): Oh, reality. Material, external, reality to our ego, our internal reality as well.
Prabhupāda: Internal reality and external reality?
Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge; that is art. Just like electrician. He knows how to mix the two wires and bring the current. That is not knowledge; that is a business or art for temporary recreation. And because he knows the art how to bring the current, it does not mean that he knows the Absolute Truth. So people are taking at the present moment electrician as the knower of the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: No, he doesn't require. Just like I am working with this dictaphone. I am not a mechanic, but my business is going on. That is required. I have read the instruction paper, that "You use this microphone like this. You put this button," and three, four instruction. So I have learned it and it is giving my business. That's all. Just like this lamp, the instruction is "Push this button," (flicks light button) and it will go, all on. So I know I will get the light. Now I am not electrician. It doesn't require. That much knowledge is sufficient. But I want the light. So the electrician says, "Just put this button in this way. Light will be there." So my business is finished.
Prabhupāda: Because I have approached the Supreme, the supreme brain, Kṛṣṇa. He is the perfect person in knowledge. Aiśvaryasya, jñāna. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows everything. He is conducting nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kālacakro. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So we know from the perfect. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. I am not perfect; that's a fact. But my knowledge is perfect. Just like I am not an electrician. But the electrician has told me that "You push this button. There will be light." So I am doing that. What is the use of becoming electrician? I want light, and the electrician told me, "Just push this button." I am doing that, and light is there. That's all. You cannot say, "You are not a electrician. How you can say the light...?" And I know from the perfect person, and it is acting. This is our position. It doesn't require that I will have to become electrician. The electrician has told that "You push this button," and there is light. That's all. Does it require that I will have to become a electrician to conduct this light?
Jagadīśa: Now he's working hard to put a ball in the hole.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows, "This is life." There is no other alternative. That is his ignorance. He cannot do it. Still, he is doing. You see? You know that when there was electric failure in New York? The statistics is that more women became pregnant. (laughter) But what they will do in the darkness? "Let us have sex." That's all.
Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:(?) "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees." On account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.
Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.
Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...
Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.
Governor: No, what is... What is the... An electrician we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a brāhmaṇa. An engineer...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.
Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.
Governor: No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the varṇāśrama-dharma, of the brāhmaṇa, and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.
Prabhupāda: No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a brāhmaṇa, he become a electrician. Why?
Governor: I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also...
Prabhupāda: Engineer?
Governor: A mechanical engineer.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Governor: And he also be influenced by the good points of varṇāśrama-dharma.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). That is another way, that "I have no other means of earning livelihood." But if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then even though he is acting as an electrician, he is in touch with Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya. That I explained in the varṇāśrama-dharma, that even though leg is leg, it is not as important as the head. But the leg is also required to keep the body in healthy condition. So that electrician who has connection with Kṛṣṇa, he is no more electrician; he is Vaiṣṇava because he has got his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out Bhagavad-gītā. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ. You can get perfection.
Prabhupāda: Now, he is electrician. If whatever he earns he engages in worship Kṛṣṇa, then he is transcendental. He is not electrician; he is a Vaiṣṇava. This is clearly said. Then?
Prabhupāda: Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God.
Prabhupāda: So the seeing of the child and seeing of the father is different. In our childhood we were thinking that in the gramophone box there is a man. And the fan there is a ghost. (laughter) I remember quite. "How these records are being played? There must be one man. He is singing." And the electric fan was running, I was thinking there is some ghost. This is the way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice. Yes. But I say that even there is something wrong, it is not impediment. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Even if you find in devotee something bad, and his behavior is not in the standard, but because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no other business, he is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. He is saintly man. Even if you find some defect in his character, because he is sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is saintly. Kṛṣṇa says. How is that, a saintly man has got some this bad character? So that answer is next verse.
- kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā
- śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati
- kaunteya pratijānīhi
- na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati
- (BG 9.31)
"Yes, there are some defects. It is right. But it will be very soon finished." Just like you make the switch off, electric fan. So after the switch is off, still it is moving. But that movement is not real movement because the switch is off. It will stop very soon.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait. I am coming. (break) Kṛṣṇa says that "I am present everywhere by My energy. But personally I may not be here, in here." But ultimately there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa. Wherever there is energy... Just like electricity. Everywhere there is. If you are expert you can generate electricity from anywhere.
Dr. Pore: Is it possible to find Kṛṣṇa in the Christian tradition or in Islam?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes. Why not? Christians are seeking after God. You are going to the church. "O God." You accept God has created everything. Here also He says, "Everything is My energy." Where is the difference?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is very nice gentleman. He came to see me in New York also, with his family.
Brahmānanda: His wife is Sally?
Prabhupāda: No.
Brahmānanda: That's another girl.
Prabhupāda: He is Gopal. He came to learn electrical engineering.
Brahmānanda: Gopal.
Prabhupāda: Mmm. His father is rich man. His father came to see me, yes.
Prabhupāda: So such a big... simply by touching the electric wire that becomes...
Brahmānanda: Well, they were, I think, steel towers, two hundred feet high, so they were pretty sturdy, and it hit four of them.
Ambarīṣa: There was some bad weather.
Brahmānanda: And then it toppled over.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you accept energy, then you must enquire what is the source of the energy? Energy is produced. Just like here is energy, but it is produced under certain arrangement. Where the energy is being produced? If you accept energy, that is knowledge. Now, just like electrical energy is, what is called, generated in the powerhouse. You cannot say the electrical energy has jump over. It is being generated. Eh?
Bahulāśva: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom this electric energy is coming? Where is the generating house? You cannot say that electric ener..., so many electrical light, they have come all of a sudden, no. There is a regular generating house. So where is that generating house? What is their reply?
Bahulāśva: They have none.
Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.
Prabhupāda: This is the statement. As soon as we take birth, we have got so many responsibilities. We are responsible to perform sacrifices for all the demigods. You are taking light from the sun. You have got responsibility. Otherwise how you are getting so much light? If you don't pay the electric bill, the next day it will be disconnected. And you are taking so much light from the sun. You have no responsibility? You have. "No, there is no responsibility. You are taking light, air, water. So many things you are taking, supplied by the different demigods. Deva, ṛṣi, ṛṣi, great... Just like Vyāsadeva or many other ṛṣis, they have given you knowledge, and you have no responsibility? You have responsibility.
Prabhupāda: A great scientist. That a child can say also. It is automatic. That is not intelligence. If the scientists simply study the sunshine, they will have to come to the conclusion there is God. But they will not do that. They will bluff others, they will cheat others, and they will be cheated. And still they pass on as great scientist. Study the sunshine, wherefrom it is coming. You have no experience that unless there is arrangement at night, there is no sunshine, why you make so much arrangement for heat and light by electricity, by this way and that way and there is no arrangement nature? But such foolish talks we have to hear from so-called scientists? That is going on.
Prabhupāda: Potency. Just like electricity. There is standard regulation: "This is negative; this is positive. You must act like this. You must fix like..." You cannot do whimsically: "No, why not this way? Why not that way?" Then it is lost. Then there will be no electricity. Similarly, there is standard method how to understand this philosophy, how to get it, I mean to say, what is called, authoritatively. Then it will act.
Prabhupāda: ...machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stops—the machine is there—it will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing. So that electricity, either you say soul or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of śāstra. But you have neither śāstra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Our position is very weak against these arguments.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got some evidences—Kṛṣṇa is speaking, the Vedic śāstra... And what you have got? Simply your speaking? What you are, nonsense? Your speaking should be accepted? And Kṛṣṇa's speaking will be rejected? I have got some support, but what support you have got except your statement? Then everyone can give a statement and he becomes an authority.
Smarahari: The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements and all the stars they are made of the same...
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you make an imitation sun here? At night so that you may save so many expenses. So much expenses for electric. The rascal. If you know the chemicals then you make it. Ha? What do they say?
Smarahari: They say there are many suns... but...
Prabhupāda: That's alright. Make you one sun, if you know! Many suns but you have not made anyone of them. You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. Huh? What do you say? Anybody?
Prabhupāda: That's alright. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?
Akṣayānanda: So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.
Prabhupāda: How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?
Harikeśa: I don't know anything about this. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You cannot... Your malador masjid(?). Arguments are there, so whether there is life in the sun globe?
| Page Title: | Electricity (Conv 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | SunitaS, Serene, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=76, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 76 |