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Election (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ: (BG 8.15) "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to return back to this miserable condition of life which is not only miserable but temporary." So we should understand that. Nature is so cruel. In America, President Kennedy, he was thought to be the most fortunate man, happy man, young man, was elected President, nice wife, children, honor all over the world—(snaps finger)—within a second, finished. Temporary. Now what is his condition? Where he is? If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): Mahārāja, don't you think that monarchy (unclear)

Prabhupāda: No, that is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And when the Kṛṣṇa conscious people will elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders and therefore havoc is being played.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, do you think the West is being Hinduized?

Prabhupāda: The "Hinduized" is a sectarian view.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): (Hindi) ...regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then...

Prabhupāda: No, why cannot help? If... Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people?

Guest (5): I see.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way.
Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: So Vena, here it is mentioned, sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. His mother's name was Sunīthā. She was also daughter of a very bad king, and she inherited the father's quality. And the son also inherited the mother's quality. This is also true. The son inherits mother's quality, and the daughter inherits father's quality. So because the grandfather of Vena Maharaja was a bad man, his daughter means Sunīthā, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. Sunīthā, his mother's name was Sunīthā. Because he was born in the womb of Sunīthā, a bad woman, therefore, he... Nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ. He has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.
Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: They are taking to politics. Yes.

Guest (2): Whom are they fighting? Whom are they going to fight?

Prabhupāda: No, some of our members, they are standing for election in the government. Election. And we hope one day some of our men will become President. That is kṣatriya's business, to take part in administration.

Guest (2): No fighter? No fighting? They are not going to fight? They're not going to become warriors, not like the real kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Well, when you take part in politics you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant." Therefore people vote, "All right, you become president." And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...that's (indistinct) culture. Nobody's actually Christian.

Devotee: ...he wants to know when you elect someone into a social office... (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is our Vedic civilization that their life should be (indistinct).

Devotee: ...how a man such as yourself, in such a high position and such hierarchy was able to leave all this in order to bring this message to others?

Prabhupāda: No. It's not to be... Life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, student, gṛhastha, householder, vānaprastha, retired life and sannyāsa. Everyone should follow this principle. First of all, as brahmacārī student he should learn sufficiently what is the value of life. Then, when he's a householder, he should live properly with husband, wife and children-properly. Then, after retired life, giving the responsibility of household life to grown-up children, he should take lessons from saintly persons. (indistinct) Then at the end he should take sannyāsa. Whatever knowledge he has gathered he must distribute by traveling from one place to another. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone should come out. Not that they should remain at home and drink and sleep for the whole life. This is Vedic civilization.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He is Republican.

Brahmānanda: They haven't traced it to him yet, but all his chief aides, they have all been implicated. It was during the election.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So therefore they are defeated.

Brahmānanda: Yeah. They knew what the Democrats were doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This position is at the present moment, no honest man can become a government officer, everywhere. Unless he is a rogue, dishonest person, he cannot maintain his governmental position. Therefore no noble man is going to the government. But what you can do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Politicians are the greatest cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Scoundrel. Some philosopher said that "Politics is the last place of the scoundrel. That is their last resort." In India we see same thing. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So design some means how to fight with these... (end)

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: He told me that he was given...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He wanted election of Vāsudeva Prabhu, Gaura Mahārāja and that Bhagavānānanda, but Paraśurāma. But anyhow, he escaped and he came to Tīrtha Mahārāja, his former relative, old Tīrtha Mahārāja, former relative. Then Tīrtha Mahārāja told him that "What about my guru?" "Well, if your guru on one side, another bullock in another side. And if you can plow and produce some crops, and that can be offered to Mahāprabhu, then your guru may have a path of relish." (laughs) See what Tīrtha Mahārāja says, "This is blasphemy." "No, it is true, but this is very cruel. But this is truth."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Oh, separate. Yes, bael nut is separate. That police officer, Ashe(?), district magistrate...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Was re-elected. (Bengali) ...on the real basis of this downpour of the civilized people here. (Bengali conversation for some time)

Prabhupāda: If you manufacture one palanquin... Palanquin. You know palanquin? Then sometimes you can carry Śrīdhara Mahārāja there. Yes. It will be great service and benefit for you. Because he's, he's very now...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Feeble.

Prabhupāda: Feeble now. So palanquin is all right. He can be carried in palanquin.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: He's publicly elected president. If public (is) accusing him in so many ways, he should have (said), "All right, if you don't like, I resign." But no. So where is the good quality? There is no good quality. Because he has no sense of God consciousness. So without sense of God consciousness, nobody can possess any good quality. That is impossible. And a small man, like our students, because he's God conscious, you'll find so many good qualities in them in comparison to others. So these are the version of the Vedas. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. One who has become a devotee of the Supreme Lord, all the good qualities will be manifest in him. So we want good quality men. So the one process—to make him God conscious. He'll become the best person in the society.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: Oh, I approve of it very, very strongly. Very strongly. It must be... It must be the basis of all, of all good.

Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment. So it may be they're electing a wrong person. That is the defect of democracy.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I would rather have people make mistakes when they had self-government than if you had a dictatorship which didn't make mistakes and imposed it's own...

Prabhupāda: No, but my proposition is that they should not commit, either the king or the elected person should not commit mistake. But if you try to educate the mass of people to become educated to elect the right person, that is very difficult. But if a king, a person, is educated nicely, that is easier. That is my point of view.

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes, but the mass of people in poverty, the...

Prabhupāda: No, everything will be all right. Because the man on the head is perfectly, he'll manage, he'll manage. But if he's not perfect, then it is not possible. Therefore the endeavor should be made... Either call it dictator or president or king, it doesn't matter. The man on the top of the executive must be a perfect man.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is another trick, it may be. Or he did not like. It may be. Because he was so great, what is the presidency? Presidency elected post for five years. But he was recognized all over the world as a great leader. That is greater than any president's post or prime minister's post. So that is not much. But the thing is that if he was actually aware of the importance of Rāma, that he did not. He took it, "Rāma" as some means for his political purpose. But still it effected. At the time of death he said, "Rāma."

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not how to preach.

Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into... Therefore he advised that "You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager." This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that "You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime." He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because he has some power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh?

Karandhara: He's elected.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's elected, that is same. But his position is supreme. Why he's supreme? As government servant, he gets the highest salary, he has the, all the best facilities, amenities, and his order is final. In this way...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has the command of convincing others.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has the power or the command of...

Prabhupāda: No, you may not agree with him. Still, you have to accept. That is his supremacy. You may not agree with him, but because he's supreme, you have to accept his order. That is his position. It does not depend on your acceptance or not acceptance. That is supremacy. Is it not?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Is it all right to blame the government in public, Prabhupāda, in India?

Prabhupāda: No, what is that government? Government is elected by the public. If public is polluted, the government must be polluted. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Public votes somebody, "Take charge of government." So if the public selects somebody nonsense, the government must be nonsense.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, but don't think like that. But there are two kinds of business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). To give protection to the devotees and killing the unbeliever. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) Yes. Government has got two departments: law and order department, military department. Why? Two things must... (break) This is their business, śūdra business. Śūdra business. Śūdras, they have no knowledge. They commit mistake over and over. Therefore brāhmaṇa required to guide the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. Therefore they are guru. Otherwise, they will commit mistake, more or less. It is practical. Just in your country, you have all elected Mr. Nixon as president, and again you are protesting. Why you are protesting? You have already elected him. What is the reasons?

Karandhara: Well, he's a rascal.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all. This kind of election is rascal election. It has no meaning. Therefore the public must know whom to elect and how to elect. That should be our propaganda. Because nowadays it is democratic government, teach people how to select the real leader. Real leader means who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned, who does not cheat and who has no imperfect senses, who has, or, other words, one who has got perfect senses. So if you say, "How it is possible for the conditioned soul?" "Yes, it is possible if you follow the perfect." Just like we are doing. We are following Kṛṣṇa. He does not commit mistake, He is not illusioned, His senses are not imperfect, and He does not cheat. We are following. Therefore, although we are imperfect, because we are following the perfect, our proposition is perfect. A child may be illiterate, but when he's taught, "Write A like this," and he follows that, he becomes literate. This is the policy.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to teach them how to elect leader. These are the qualification of the leaders. He must not be sinful. Then he can be. (break) ...people will find in our camp. (break)

Prajāpati: ...one philosopher atheist by the name Bertrand Russell, he tries to prove that God does not exist by saying that people who say God exists, say that God is, everything has a cause and that the first cause is God, and Bertrand Russell says, "Well, if everything has a cause, then God also must have a cause. So that, there must be no God."

Prabhupāda: If God has cause, then he is not God. That is the difference between God and everything. Everything has got cause, but God has not cause. Therefore he is God. That, the rascal, he does not know. He equalizes God and everything on the same level. Then what is the meaning of God? If He hasn't got the extraordinary qualification, then how he is God? He is everything. He does not know. Why there is distinction between God and everything? Because God is not caused by everything, but everything is caused by God. That is the difference. (break) ...is equal to God, then everything is God. That is going on, Māyāvāda philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Just like in the modern days, government, they have abolished monarchism, but still, why they elect a president? Why?

Prajāpati: Must be leadership.

Prabhupāda: Must be. That is the point. If you have abolished monarchy, then why you are electing another rascal to become a monarch? What is the answer? Why do you need it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they need law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there must be. In our organization... Just like in each temple we elect a president. Then we get GBC. Then above all, I am. So that is needed. It is not conventional. It is needed. Therefore above everything, there must be God. So if these people, they say, "There is no need of God, there is no use for Him," that means they are all rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are rascal. They are rascal. Maybe some of them are innocent also. But mostly they are rascal because without being first-class rascal, one cannot go into politics. Just like if somebody says... Now, election. Somebody says that "You become vice-president." So why shall I become vice-president? Because I know I shall not be able to do anything. So why shall I waste my time? So another rascal, he will be ready. "Oh, offering vice-president?" But I know that if I want to manage the state, I have to make the people sinless. So if I propose that "Stop this slaughterhouse," so who will accept me? So why shall I go there? Nobody will accept me. Senate, senators, they will say, "Oh, this is business. This is impractical. You have no experience." He will immediately reject. So therefore mass of people must be conscious what is God, what is sin. So when they will be prepared, these rascals will be changed.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Jagajjīvana: So they will see the potency of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...many devotees. Sixty, seventy devotees. And Viṣṇujana Mahārāja was there with Rādhā-Dāmodara. He is doing very nicely. And then I stopped in Atlanta to see Balavanta Prabhu, and he has got a big office now.

Prabhupāda: Election?

Jagajjīvana: Yes. He is thinking of running for Congress next. (break) And that was very nice.

Prabhupāda: Students are doing very nice?

Jagajjīvana: Oh yes. I was there before when Amarendra ran for mayor in Dallas. I helped him with that. And I got a chance to associate with the children there. And they have made so much advancement since last I was there.

Prabhupāda: They are now chanting ślokas very nice?

Jagajjīvana: Yes. Dayānanda Prabhu is doing very well. And Hiraṇyagarbha Prabhu is teaching them Sanskrit and English. But mostly they like kīrtana. They become very ecstatic during kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: That is real business.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Another rascal is buying. We are not buying. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam, spotless knowledge, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalam. Amalam means without any spot. (break) ...of God is given in the dictionary, "Supreme Being." That is very nice. Everywhere we see that on the top there is a supreme being, just like in your state, the president. So why not this big government, a Supreme Being? Where is the difficulty? Without something supreme, controller, things cannot go nicely. Otherwise why you select a president? Why you select a supreme being and give him all power that "Your order will be final"? Why you do that? Because you want the government must go on nicely. Otherwise there is no need of electing a president. So supreme being must be there, in every management. So this big huge management, there must be Supreme Being. And that is God.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's like in England, House of Commons. And senator, House of Lords.

Prajāpati: Yes, that's right. (break) ...have been projected. One is that we preach very boldly and hold no bars, make it known completely what our platform is. The other attitude is one of making up propaganda more palatable by saying if elected we will reinstitute prayers into schools and not tell them much more than that.

Prabhupāda: Why in the school? In every home.

Prajāpati: Well, it was a very big issue several years ago. They used to have a prayer at the beginning of each school day. But then one demoniac lady, one atheist, she, by her, simply by her will-power got the Supreme Court to rule that unconstitutional. Now prayers are not allowed in schools anymore unless we make an amendment to the constitution, saying "Yes, we can have a prayer in school." Then it would be allowed.

Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Nara-nārāyaṇa: As they elect the congressmen generally to solve different social problems which are existing in the society, so in our campaigning process, should we try to show them practical application of the philosophy for solving all their social problems, or should we preach philosophically?

Prabhupāda: No. We should preach that "Stop these things. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating." Practically you teach them. This is the real social problem.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: So we would tell the people that if we were elected we would try to close the slaughterhouses.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is different thing. Why you should say, revolting something. You say that "Don't eat meat." That is slaughterhouse closing. If you say that "Close your slaughterhouse," they will think that these are, what is called?

Umāpati: Radical.

Prabhupāda: Ideal, radicalist, idealist. But if you can induce them... That is also another process...

Umāpati: Through influence.

Prabhupāda: They agree. Then automatically, slaughterhouse will be closed. If there is no customer for meat, then slaughterhouse will be closed. Just like Gandhi started this movement, non-cooperation, "Don't cooperate with the British government." That was his... Because the Britishers were ruling India with the cooperation of the Indians.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: People will ask us, if we get into office. What are we going to do? What is the first thing we are going to do? What can we do? Since there are many, many other legislators and many other senators, they say, "You are only one man. How you can possibly change the country if we elect you?"

Prabhupāda: That I know. That I know, that I am... Therefore we are, internally, we are not after the office; we are after educating people. Yes. Even if you go to office, you cannot do. Even if give manifesto, that you will stop slaughterhouse, and you are elected a senator, you cannot stop. Because they are majority there. If you say they will laugh, "What this nonsense saying?" So even if you give any manifesto, you will not be able to carry out it, because their majority is there. Simply you can general way educate them. Or you can give what is there. There is no harm.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The people have so much opposed them now, the present government, I think there will be right government next election. The election itself is a sort of great, I mean, mockery committed on the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I always said.

Dr. Patel: It's a demagogy.

Prabhupāda: Then... (Hindi) The votes given by some...

Dr. Patel: Ignorant people.

Prabhupāda: ...ignorant people. What is the value?

Dr. Patel: You see, if you go in the assembly...

Prabhupāda: Formerly a king was elected by great sages, saintly persons, brāhmaṇas. King was elected. And as soon as he deviated from the śāstric principles, he was kicked out.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Oh. It's very exciting, Prabhupāda, because all the, at the present time in the...

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The point is that these daityas are elected by the daityas.

Dr. Patel: Now, sometimes even they were liked, the daityas. When they have the samudra-mathana, even the devas went to the daityas to help them. So it is... I mean, that is not so. We have to take the help of daityas for a good work. But they are frustrating us. How is the argument? All right?

Prabhupāda: No. Because there are no more available devas, therefore daityas are the only...

Dr. Patel: We are like that. These rascals, you see, they have got no sense of proportion. There are two dozen mosques come up in this area without any reason in any way. And they are upset when there is construction of a Hindu temple. They are majority. So they are daityas. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...required... They, they, they required.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...animals. Why like animals?

Dr. Patel: That's right. Every one is... (break)

Bhava-bhūti: ...Balavanta's election campaign. After a fired-up speech by Balavanta, one lady called up and said "Why do you keep referring to the American people as animals?" So she was so offended.

Dr. Patel: She became violent. So all violent, they are animals. (break)

Prabhupāda: They are good.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government. (break) ...all leniency to the Mohammedans to get vote. That's a fact. (break) Mahābhārata, anywhere, or Rāmāyaṇa, you'll never find a woman is elected on the topmost post.

Dr. Patel: And that was widow.

Prabhupāda: No, woman is never, was made a king. That was... Now it has become a fashion.

Dr. Patel: And the widow with all her virtues.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...days greatest politician. Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. So our present head of the state is both woman and diplomat. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is rogues. So what is the value of that laws? The legislative assembly means a set of rogues, and if they legislate something, what is the value of that? (break) Caught like that, yes. Because people are becoming degraded, so they elected such degraded everything. (break) Shameless. The whole nation is asking that "You resign." "No." Such shameless. (break) ...that somebody was in the room, and the outsider says, "Who is in the room?" "No, no! I am not stealing!" (laughter) "No, no, I am not stealing."

Girirāja: There's a saying that when you throw a stone in a pack of dogs, the one who is hit will scream. (break)

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But that means you are foolish and pope is also foolish. If he does not follow the orders of Jesus Christ, then how he becomes a pope? Therefore you are foolish. You have elected some foolish, another foolish man as your pope. That should be the right answer, that "If he does not follow Christ, how he becomes pope?"

Pañcadraviḍa: He is not killing.

Prabhupāda: Then why he is appointed as head? He must order. Otherwise if you are not following pope, then you are not Christian. He does not kill, then you should not kill. And why does he not order?

Pañcadraviḍa: He himself is eating meat. So it must be all right.

Prabhupāda: Then how he is pope?

Pañcadraviḍa: But he is knowing what Christianity is the best. Therefore he is in charge. He says it is all right to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how... Then first of all how you can elect him as in charge? Then you are fool.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is that mischief?

Mahāṁśa: I don't remember exactly, but he was taken to court and exposed and he was expelled from entering into any...

Prabhupāda: Party.

Mahāṁśa: ...any elections for five years. So now his period is finishing, his five years is finishing, and he is going to stand again, and seems that he's very, very popular, he has a good chance. And he's our Life Member...

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's a Life Member?

Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: He studies our books?

Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes, he has taken our books and he especially asked that "I am reading these books and please give me." And he attended all the three days of the exhibition grounds.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:
Mahāṁśa: You should never trust a politician, so if you cannot trust a politician, why we elect him as a leader, why should he be a leader?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, "Do not trust" means you are also not trustworthy, nobody trusts you, and you should also not. That is their philosophy. All these big, big politicians, just like United Nations. The same philosophy is going on. Nobody trusts anyone, but they speak big.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What social? He is animal. How he can reform? First of all, let him become man. What reform? What is the meaning of his reform? He is animal also. That's all. You cannot expect any reformation by the same animal. That is explained. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The so-called leader he is also animal, and he is eulogized by another animal. This is going on. And another animal, one animal, big animal is being elected as the president. Therefore you are suffering. Nixon. What is Nixon? He is also another animal. And the animals have elected him president. Just see. This is going on. Where is the human being?

Dhanañjaya: Just like in the forest. The animals, they select the lion to be the king.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice."

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi:

śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ
saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ
na yat-karṇa-pathopeto
jātu nāma gadāgrajaḥ
(SB 2.3.19)

"Men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who never listen to the transcendental pastimes of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the deliverer from evils."

Prabhupāda: Yes. These electors are animals, and they elect animals. Just like Nixon. A big animal, and he was elected by other animals. And now there is struggle. (makes barking sound:) "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughter.) That's all. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's a big dog, and the small dogs, they elected him. And now there is some trouble, and "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He was praised by some animals. He's an animal, big animal, and he was praised by... That is stated here, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called leaders, they are animals, and they are praised by other animals. That's all. Small animals. This is the civilization.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

consciousness through the four ages?

Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.

M. Lallier: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And the more he sticks to his position, he's becoming unpopular. So his degradation is already complete, but because he's in the office, post, he does not agree that, "I am degraded." But from the public point of view, he's degraded. Is it not?

M. Lallier: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: But isn't that not good because the politicians nowadays, when they are running their campaign, they say so many lies and everything to the public, that "When I am elected I will do this and I will do that," and they do so many... They pay off so many people in order that they can become elected. So always the good persons are... I guess they also have to cheat in order to get in position, but usually the...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have stopped our political activities. It is not good. It will be hampering to our spiritual understanding.

Devotee: Because we will also have to do that.

Prabhupāda: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase guṇṭhana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, guṇṭhana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So we have no responsibility. It is false, māyā. Our only responsibility is how to become obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. So that is only responsibility, one responsibility. Just like the political parties, they are advertising, different political party, "I am your friend. Give me vote." How he can be friend? Just like in America, the Nixon took vote, he was advertising "America requires Nixon." I have seen that advertised when he was being elected. But after some time, the people found that he is not required, "Get out." So nobody can become, because everyone is imperfect. How one can become friend or responsible for another person? Just like in your country, in Europe and America, so many hippies are there. Their parents are responsible, rich men, able men, but why they have become hippies? Is it not a fact? The father does not want that his son should become a hippie, but still he is becoming hippie. Where is his responsibility? You cannot give protection to your son. In spite of your desire, you are disappointed. So where is your responsibility? Who can answer? Where is your responsibility? You don't really like that your son should become a hippie, but you cannot protect him.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So you want to take again election? (chuckles) No.

Balavanta: Not if you don't want to, Prabhupāda. I was just thinking it was an opportunity to preach if you want it. But if you're not very enthusiastic about it, I don't want to do it.

Prabhupāda: No, I am enthusiastic provided you don't want money.

Balavanta: I think we can get our own... I can get the money. It doesn't have to cost very much. The only thing we would need is maybe two men to help. And we can... It won't cost... Only for two or three months out of the year.

Prabhupāda: Then you can do it. It makes you well known in the city. And you get the opportunity of criticizing the demons. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmānanda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

March 14, 1975, Iran

Prabhupāda: ...they assemble together and people are unhappy. They have renounced democracy, eh? Communist?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, they have some sort of democracy themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, they are dictatorship. Actually Stalin's dictatorship was going on.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It's all dictatorship. Democracy is also a dictatorship, but by election. They elect a fool, and then he can be..., do whatever he wants.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They are dictators. Stalin's dictatorship was going on.

Devotee: It's all dictatorship.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Democracy is also dictatorship. Just by elections. They elect a fool...

Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Devotee: ...and then he can do whatever he wants.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The sacrifice means the animal slaughter has to be done in the mosque, is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayatīrtha: Say, the Gurukula, for example...

Prabhupāda: Now I have elected this committee in Europe because the German trouble is going on. When the German trouble is over, there is no need of committee. It is only for this particular purpose because there we have to defend court, we have to see... So two, three heads, not one head. One head may be puzzled. Committee means for special purposes. Otherwise, the standing committee, GBC, is already there.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India, they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king. Diplomacy... Democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected. (break) ...and it was hereditary, even Russia. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). And evaṁ paramparā-prāptam—who? Rājarṣayoḥ. They are king, but just like saintly persons. That is king, not a loafer class is elevated to the royal post. Rājarṣayoḥ. Although they're holding the post of a king for administration, they're just like ṛṣi. That is king.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: So they don't say it out loud.

Prabhupāda: No, when we come to argument that... We are supposed to be all believers in God. We are not nonbelievers. We simply want to ascertain who is that God. We are not nonbelievers. Then some persons who believe in God come together so to ascertain who is God. So just like when we come to a meeting to elect a president, so they are not nonbelievers. They are not nonbelievers. As there are so many personalities, candidate for president, now who is the right person to become the president? That is wanted. To the nonbelievers, he has no access. About discussion in God he has no access. When we discuss about God, it is supposed they are all believers. So if you say... Just like we are holding meeting to ascertain... There are so many names of God. Now we ascertain who is real God. God means there should be no more above Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). That is God.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: It means that if you pay enough money, you can get anything, or you can get somebody to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The justice, they are taking bribe, giving judgment.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, yes. Policemen. Also the politicians in America, sometimes they win their elections by giving bribes.

Prabhupāda: To the voters.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That we are loving. We are giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is loving, real loving. We are giving him eternal life, eternal bliss. Unless we love them, why we are taking so much trouble? The preacher must love the people. Otherwise why he is taking? He can do it for himself at home. Why he is taking so much trouble? Why in eighty years old I have come here if I do not love? So who can love better than a preacher? He loves even the animals. Therefore they are preaching, "Don't take meat." Do they love the animals, rascals? They are eating, and they love their country, that's all. Nobody loves. It is simply sense gratification. If somebody loves, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. All rascals. They are after their own sense gratification, and they will put a signboard, "I love everyone." This is their business. And fools are accepting, "Oh, this man is very philanthropic." He does not love any man. He loves only senses. That's all. The servant of the senses, that's all.

Everyone is working because he is getting money. Where is the love? The minister, the prime minister, everyone, if they say, "No money, no salary," nobody will go. He takes the opportunity of taking money by bribe, by this way. Therefore they are: "I love your country. Elect me as president." That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Dr. Copeland: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: They did not elect a first-class man, and later on, they could understand. So everywhere it is going on. Vox populi, the people, are less intelligent. They do not know whom to vote. And besides that, votes can be purchased. They do purchase by paying according to the country. So what is the value of this vote?

Dr. Copeland: Um, when...

Prabhupāda: Now, what is your opinion? A third-class, fourth-class man, if they vote, do you think it has any meaning?

Dr. Copeland: Well, I don't define the people first, second, third, and fourth class like you do, obviously.

Prabhupāda: You don't find? You don't find first person...?

Dr. Copeland: Well, I'm not as willing to judge other people. I'm not willing to say whether you're first, second, or third class, just as I'm not willing to say...

Prabhupāda: No. At least, you are educationist, you are professor. According to the modern society, you are one of the first-class men. Do you think your position and the lower class man, the same?

Dr. Copeland: I think everybody has the same amount of intelligence and ability. It's just that some of them get more breaks than others.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: From your point of view, but we in the department depend on political decisions.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the department means they are another set of...

Director: Yes, that's just an instrument, for public will. The minister is elected according to public will...

Prabhupāda: Because they have made a department, just like your... what is the department?

Devotee: Social welfare.

Prabhupāda: Social welfare. So if they find social welfare, why not help? Why they bring politics? If actually there is social welfare here, why they should not support it?

Director: Yeah, well you're right. But in our society, minister is elected to carry out certain policies—not what he wants but what the people have voted. And they are taxed to support this.

Prabhupāda: If your policy is social reformation...

Director: Social reform is not our policy.

Prabhupāda: Then, social welfare.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We are public, members of the public. So you should become our servant also, if you are public servant. (laughter)

Director: A public servant is, in our philosophy, is a man who serves a minister elected by the people, and this way he serves the public. And what the public decides, he accordingly.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are reforming the public. The select...

Director: Yes, that's what I mean. When you reform the public, then you cannot (indistinct) differently.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the public select a president, Nixon, and they became disturbed, again drag him down. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. The people are rascals and they have elected another rascal. (laughter) That is the defect.

Director: But that's how it is.

Prabhupāda: So what can be done? Then hopeless.

Director: Well, you can work on the...

Prabhupāda: But we are going without depending on these rascals. We are going on. We are publishing our books, we are making our movement, we honestly trying. That's all. That we are doing all over the world.

Director: All we can do is allow you to convince the population differently.

Prabhupāda: We are doing.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then you become. But if he is a loafer and he wants to become prime minister, then it will create havoc. Just like in America. He was not fit for the president's post. Nixon was elected. Then again he has to be dragged down. We say the fit man should go to become a particular...

Guest 2: Our system, I think is not very good. But everyone is taught this way in our system.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be... Just like first-class men. They should judge for which purpose this man is. Practical psychology there is. I think. They can decide like that. Anyway, the society must have all divisions of men, and then the society is perfect. We have already many divisions, but we are lacking one division, that, the first-class men, first-class ideal men. That is lacking.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all. This is material world. And to keep up his position he is proclaiming, that "I am your friend." Just like when Nixon was being elected: "America needs Nixon now." (laughter) I have seen that signboard. And then again it became, "America needs to kick out." (laughter) This is going on. This is cheating. Both of them are cheater. Those who elected him, he is also cheater, and who became elected, he is also cheater. So this is the society of cheaters and cheated. The so-called human society means the society of the cheaters and cheated. One man is cheated, another man is cheater, and alternately he is also cheated and others are cheated. This is going on.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we can see on equal level when (sic:) you become a brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, not in the United Nation, passing resolution and fight is going on outside, because they have no vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So the politicians should be guided by the brāhmaṇas. That is social structure. Those who are first-class men in the spiritual understanding... Or the politicians, the administrators, they should take instruction from the brāhmaṇas and take part in politics. Then they will be also first-class men. You haven't got to drag him down again. First of all elect, and drag him down. This is mistake. Just like you elected Nixon president; again you dragged him down, because there was mistake. You do not know who to elect because you are not guided by brāhmaṇas. This is the fault. The whole society is being guided by the mle..., śūdras and some portion vaiśyas. Mostly śūdras and some certain percentage, mercantile. And no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa. Therefore, for the peaceful life in human society, there must be four divisions. Find out this verse, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: What about women who are elected by the people?

Prabhupāda: Well, people election... Just like you elected Nixon and then you wanted him to come down. So this kind of election has no value. Sometimes you elect and sometimes you pull down. So what is the value of this election?

Woman reporter: So a leader should not be elected.

Prabhupāda: Elected, but not by this general public. They have no intelligence. They sometimes elect a wrong man, and again they try to drag him down. So what is the use of such election? Because that election is not sober, not mature. If the election was mature and sober, then there was no need of dragging him down again.

Woman reporter: We have talked to scientists who say that the size of the brain has nothing to do with intelligence. Do you believe that?

Prabhupāda: I think that the scientists do not think like that. They keep the brain of a particular scientist to study. They keep the heart of a particular noble man. Why they try to study the heart and the brain if there is no difference?

Nitāi: Sometimes they keep the brain of a great scientist to study because they think that he is so intelligent, there must be something we can learn from studying the brain. So if they are thinking like that, then there also must be a difference between a woman's brain and a man's brain.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So public vote. Elect Nixon and then drag him down. This is public opinion. Sometimes make him president, sometimes drag him down. So what is the value of these votes?

City Counselor: Well, I can certainly pledge that wherever I find and can identify prejudices...

Prabhupāda: If they become unreasonable, whimsical, then who can defend? There is no such law that one should have a particular dress in their church or temple. There is no such law. But they are insisting about the dress. What is this?

City Counselor: Again, I will pledge that whenever I can expose such prejudices on the parts of my fellow aldermen, I will do it.

Prabhupāda: No, that is very kind of you, but if they are persistent on majority vote, then you are nowhere. So the majority, if they want whimsically to do something, you cannot check.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We are not lazy. (break) ...Nixon was elected. I saw propaganda, "America needs Nixon." You have seen?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: People also thought, "Yes." He never said, "Nixon needs money." (laughter) This is cheating. He needs some money; he said, "America needs Nixon." And the rascals were befooled. (break) All these politicians do like that. What is their responsibility?

Brahmānanda: Now Nixon is in debt. He is now in debt.

Prabhupāda: Debt? Why?

Brahmānanda: For his legal fees. He owes 300,000 dollars. So one rabbi...

Prabhupāda: So he cannot give 300,000 dollars?

Brahmānanda: No, he has no money. He had to pay taxes.

Prabhupāda: So we are paying 300,000. So we are better than him.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: President Ford, he was almost killed.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What about?

Brahmānanda: Some woman... He was mingling in the crowd for the election, and some woman came up to him. She was two feet away from him, and she took out of her purse a loaded pistol, and she was to go like this, and then she was...

Prabhupāda: Captured.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Nayanābhirāma: He was going to shake her hand.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then? They must be moved. Government means, nowadays, all rascals. They are elected by rascals and they are rascals. That is the difficulty. Everywhere you go, you will meet only rascals. Manda. The definition is given, manda. Even in our camp there are so many rascals. Just see the report. Even they have come to be reformed, they are rascals. They cannot give up their rascal habits. Therefore it has been generalized, manda: "all bad." But only difference is that in our camp the bad's are being reformed; outside there is no reforming. There is hope of their being good, but outside there is no hope. That is the difference. Otherwise everyone is bad. Without any discrimination you can say. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10). Now, how the government will be good? This is also bad. Mahāprabhu's name is Patita-pāvana; He is delivering all bad men. In the Kali-yuga there is no good men at all—all bad. Strong you will have to become to deal with all bad men. (break) The seaweeds are there even in the middle ocean.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Going on. The democracy means the selector, the elector, they are all fools and rascals. So how he will select a person who is not rascal?

Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. No intelligence. Therefore I was quoting that, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. This class of scientists and such, they are eulogized by small rascals. They are rascals, and small rascals... That is actually happening. Just like your President Nixon. How he was being given reception, crowd. Hundreds and thousands of people used to come. And then again get him down, make him humiliated as far as possible. So this is a rascal, Nixon, and the person who elected him, they are rascals. Therefore the Bhāgavata says, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstutaḥ. Here is one big animal, and the small animals voting him. That's all. This is the society, animal society—the small animals praising the big animals. That's all. All of them are animals only.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You cannot find out fault with him. As like in the court, if you find out some fault with the judge, you will be punished immediately—"Contempt of court. You cannot do that." It will be punished, because while he is on the seat of the judge, if somebody finds out fault, then his position will be lower. That is not good. I think the judgment is right. Three persons—the president, prime minister, and the speaker—cannot be, what is called?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Haṁsadūta: In America in the upcoming elections in 1976, one of the biggest candidates is a movie actor, Ronald Reagan. Yes.

Prabhupāda: For presidentship?

Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible by everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually, He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the assembly of Kurus, when Śiśupāla spoke against Kṛṣṇa being elected president of the assembly, Bhīṣma supported Him and proclaimed Him to be the Supreme God. Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others..."

Prabhupāda: Sisupala could not see, although Kṛṣṇa was present there, but Bhisma could see. So you require special eyes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ... (Bs. 5.38). So unless you are qualified, how you can see Kṛṣṇa? This is the point. Kṛṣṇa is there, and the rascal Śiśupāla could not see Him, but Bhisma could see Him. So they say, "Can you show me God?" Even God comes before you, unless you have got the qualified eyes you cannot see Him. Therefore qualification required. Premāñjana-cchurita. When your eyes will be anointed with, what is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Salve of love.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why you accuse government? Government is your election.

Dr. Patel: Now she is not going to have any more elections. "Elections are not necessary. People have given me the mandate to rule over them."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. If the dictator, executive officer, is very nice, religious, then there is no need of this election.

Dr. Patel: Oh, she goes to the temples, all right. (laughs) (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: No, no. She has got the tendency of spiritual life and she requires improvement. That's all. She has spoken in Chandigarh that "Now we require spiritualism."

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: I felt uncomfortable. He was clicking his teeth and moving his hands and talking very quickly. It was very uncomfortable just to be in his presence. I was very nervous. He actually contradicted himself. I was saying we should be respected in all Hindu temples. He says, "Yes, you are Hindus." He says, "Jains and Buddhists, they are also Hindus." I said, "How is that?" He says, "Who is Buddha?" I said, "He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." He says, "No, aside from that, he is the son of a kṣatriya." I said, "Then you are bringing it back to birth again." And then he started groping for words and avoiding it. They want to make a unity of Hindus so that they can always sway elections, so that Mohammedan and Christians do not change the election.

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is his contribution to the state after becoming President?

Hṛdayānanda: Ford?

Prabhupāda: No, Ford, no, I mean Nixon. When he was being elected, I was there in America. He was advertising, "America needs Nixon." You have seen that?

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You were driving me. I saw that time.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: At that time, we had no place. We were holding our classes on the garage and somewhere. Before coming to La Cienega...

Dayānanda: Hm, yes.

Prabhupāda: ...I was running on that road where there is tram-line.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: '69

Prabhupāda: '69, yes.

Hṛdayānanda: The election was '68.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That time he lost to Johnson, I think.

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he was being elected. So he was... The signboard was "America needs Nixon."

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.'s, he... They were speaking of Surendranath. They used to say "Surrendered not." "Here is a person who is not 'Surrender not.' He'll never surrender. 'Surrender not.' " Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in 1887, 1867, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that "You become minister." So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India. (break) ...in our childhood, if he would speak, thousands, thousands men will gather in Calcutta. (break) ...Surendranath Bannerjee Road.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president. And when he begins to eat, animal, big animal, then they protest, "Oh, now he's not proper president. Get him down, get him down." But why you sent him? "Because we are pigs; we have no other knowledge. We another, appoint another big pig as our president." Everything is explained in the Vedic literature. If you can present them properly, it will act. The voters are śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. And the president is another big animal. That's all. This is transaction of animal kingdom. A lion is the king of some asses, pigs, dogs, and hogs. What business you can expect there? This is their real picture. One who is a human being, he's seeing that how the animals are enjoying by voting and electing president. But they are thinking, "We are busy in a very great business. We are electing president." (laughter) This is going on. (break) ...you say that these rascal pigs, hogs, they elected president, and this president will eat them, and they will understand what kind of president they have elected. This thing is happening in the most advanced country of USA. And what to speak of other animal kingdom. Even the topmost state at the present moment, there also is happening the same thing. And what to speak of other small states.
Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That I am not contemplating now. But there is no need of one person. As other things are managed, but by committee, so this can also be managed, and the committee may elect one person as chief. As, just like in the democracy there are senators and there is president, so it may be I may nominate or they can nominate.

Reporter: Do you feel are you in good health now? You look it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After all, of course I am some eighty, eighty years old. And I complete eighty years next September. So the age is there, although I am feeling not aged by..., the effect of age must be there.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. (break) ...prakṛti. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). What is this? He's standing on election? (break)

Rāmeśvara: It is written in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that when Lord Caitanya entered this universe, the entire universe was blessed, or benefited. So I'm wondering how Lord Caitanya's movement is going on on other planets other than this planet. Is there some organized saṅkīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How other planetary system is going on, you do not know, but we can guess it is going on like this. Anumāna. Pratyakṣa anumāna. One thing is direct perception, another by guessing. Pratyakṣa anumāna and śabda and śruti, aitihya. There are so many evidences.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: When we were running our political format in Melbourne—one of the boys was going for some positioning in the state—he was quoted in the newspapers. They picked it out as the quote of the week, because they asked him, they said, "What would be the first thing, if you are elected, you will do?" So he said, "I would abolish the bar in the House of Parliament." So they said, "Oh, why would you do that?" He said "How can you rule a country when you're intoxicated all the time?" So they picked it out and put it in the newspapers as the quote of the week.

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Hari-śauri: In Melbourne, in one of the papers.

Prabhupāda: Our man said?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very good argument, that these drunkards, rascals, how you can rule over the country? You are always intoxicated.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that I have established so many centers. So I have to go from one center to another just to encourage them. Otherwise I am old enough. I am eighty years. So traveling is not very good job for me, but still I do it just to encourage them.

Kern: Do.... Your lines of authority then come from you, or is it an elective authority?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is work on higher authority.

Kern: In other words, there would be no election. Like if you go to San Francisco...

Prabhupāda: No, I have got my secretaries. I have got about twenty secretaries who are in charge of some group of temples.

Scheverman: I see. And you appoint the secretaries then who are in charge of the groups, each local group.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to manage as far as possible, but I'm not getting any government's cooperation. It is all my personal endeavor.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "Then the most important thing is to find the common cause that people can unite on."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Yes. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. You come to consult me about every activity because I can give you the common cause. Otherwise there will be fighting. The government should be very expert to know the aim of life, the common cause, and they should train the people to work for the common cause Then they will be happy and peaceful. But if people simply elect rascals like Nixon, they will never find a common cause. Any rascal can secure votes by some arrangement and then he becomes the head of the government. The candidates are bribing. They are cheating. They are making propaganda to win votes. Somehow or other they get votes and capture the prime posts. This system is bad."

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Between the cracks in the stone. (break) (in car)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When Balavanta was running for mayor of Atlanta he met him, so there's a good chance that if he gets elected to be President then that's easy opportunity to see the President.

Prabhupāda: What we'll do, seeing him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, right.

Hari-śauri: At least, though, if he's favorable, if he likes us a little, it may give us, ah...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But isn't, that's part of what I'm thinking about, that you and your movement tend to separate people from concern with what's going on in the world, like that's a Presidential election and Jimmy Carter is the democratic candidate. This is a disregard of what's going on in the world. Isn't that an example of it?

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that there were many Presidents before, what is this name of this?

Bali-mardana: Jimmy Carter. He is not President yet.

Hari-śauri: Ford is the president.

Prabhupāda: Ford. So what improvement you have done by having this President or that President? What improvement you'll make unless some false promise? That's all. What is the improvement? You have changed so many hundreds and thousands of Presidents, but what is the improvement about spiritual knowledge?

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda sees everything spiritually.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We take care, but we take care more for the spirit soul than the body. That is our basic principle.

Interviewer: But do you think most of the Hare Kṛṣṇa members will vote in the election in November?

Prabhupāda: They're attending? (indistinct)

Bali-mardana: He's asking if you think that they will vote, our members will vote.

Interviewer: Will they participate in the election? Will they register and vote do you think?

Prabhupāda: Personally I never give votes.

Interviewer: Never voted. You're a citizen however, aren't you, a U.S. citizen?

Prabhupāda: I am permanent resident.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The result is that the Congress Party and Indira Gandhi will never be elected anymore. That is sure. Therefore he's postponing election. Now they have lost all their credit. They will never be elected. Congress Party and Indira Gandhi finished.

Bali-mardana: They have lost all respectability.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that your preaching here in New York... The thing is the preaching...

Prabhupāda: More important.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotee: To be near the program and see what is going on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore even it is little inconvenient. (Hindi conversation) What is the position now about this political situation?

Indian man (1): Political situation remains the same. No elections, nothing for the time being.

Prabhupāda: Mahāṁśa was saying that the businessman is in trouble.

Indian man (1): Yes, business is not prospering since last two, three years. Business conditions are not picking up.

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Indian man (1): A general recession throughout the world.

Prabhupāda: Depression. Not for any political reason.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How long this will continue?

Indian man (2): They say up to February, because this February she must have elections. Otherwise, there should be an amendment in the Constitution to allow her to continue.

Prabhupāda: That is being made.

Indian man (2): This present government will serve no indication to that, that she will be allowed. Because as far as the Constitution, only one year extension can be given to Parliament, that nobody has followed through.

Prabhupāda: One year?

Indian man (2): One year extension to the existing Parliament is given as per Constitution. After one year it must dissolve if it is necessary.

Prabhupāda: That is the Constitution.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Pradyumna: "They reportedly met also our deputy defense minister, J. B. Patnayak, who hails from Orissa. It is understood that Patnayak has asked the district magistrate of Purī to find land for ISKCON's Sanskrit university there. ISKCON is pursuing not only Kṛṣṇa, it has started taking interest in politics also. It has founded a political party in the United States called "In God We Trust" Party. It has already contested civic elections in Los Angeles and intends to put up candidates for the U.S. Congress." We didn't do anything in Los Angeles. Only in Georgia. All wrong, complete...

Prabhupāda: What is wrong there? In God We Trust, this party. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are making it sound as if it is a political party.

Hari-śauri: They say political with God's name.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not saying God at all. They're saying God..., we're using God as a front.

Prabhupāda: They may say. But we want to put forward a God's party also. Why not? Everyone is godless party. We must push forward a God's party. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: It's not political.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Yes. That is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."

Guest (1): Always opposition.

Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by very strong word. Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If the public is like dogs, camels, hogs, and asses, so what is the value of their election? He'll elect another big dog or camel. So there is chaos.

Mr. Tombe: Then how to throw out good leadership?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha, the leader is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, he is... He is tiger? Ācchā. Thank you. Hm. Go on.

Jagadīśa: People are lazy and unfortunate. They have no knowledge. And besides that, they are misled by foolish leaders. The leaders are intent only on deriving sense gratification from their so-called high position. In the Bhāgavatam also it is explained that men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a civilization of fools, a fool's paradise where the common people are allowed to elect from amongst them one so-called leader who is the biggest rascal because he doesn't know anything, and none of the others, the common, people know anything about the purpose of life, and yet this so-called leader becomes elected on the basis that he can do something to help suffering humanity. The material existence is nothing but a struggle against material nature which ultimately has no value. But it's an illusory struggle because of the spirit soul...

Prabhupāda: Why it has no value?

Jagadīśa: Because there is no...

Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided. Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You don't require any covering?

Guest (2): No, I do, but...

Guest (1): (Hindi) My daughter.

Prabhupāda: I have not seen him?

Guest (1): He used to come.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Only Kennedy was the first Catholic to be. Otherwise till Kennedy came, there was no Catholic ever elected. (break) Methodist. Even in material world, he was a fool the way he carried out... (laughing) But sir, one thing: about the freedom of America. I have my hat off that that man could be knocked off by ordinary paper reporter. That would not happen in any other country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked to take the government.

Dr. Patel: That would not happen in any other country but America, freedom par excellence.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees will take the government.

Dr. Patel: That can be possible because of freedom, essential freedom of that country.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are being checked that "They may not grow." One politician has said that "If they grow like this, in ten years they'll take the government."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How you can expect good wishes from such persons? Very precarious condition. Your son, you take care. Now, as soon as you make a committee to take care of your son, then everything is finished. Is it not? The committee members will finish the son and the son's maintenance and everything. But that is going on. Formerly there was one monarch. He was acting according to the Vedic instruction. So he was responsible. And if there are many votes, by vote a government, a combination of plunderers, what they will take care of the people? It is impossible. Otherwise why there was need of dragging down Nixon? He was elected, wrong elected. Wrong must be. The people are wrong. They do not know who is the right man. Any rascal makes some intrigue, and he gets vote. And then they detect, "Oh, he's the wrong man." Again another is taken. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). And what is the guarantee that another man is right? Because the process is wrong.

Hari-śauri: They're continually re-electing a new man. The got rid of Nixon, put Ford in. Now they've got rid of Ford; they've put Carter in. And then they'll get rid of Carter, and they'll put someone else in.

Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām: (SB 7.5.30) "Again and again chewing the chewed." But if they make it point that "If one is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I'll not give a vote," then everything will be perfect, nice.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:
Prabhupāda: "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is... Even the demigods, they aspire after it. You are such a fool. You are rushing in. So we take pity upon you, and therefore we are trying to expand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But be sane; don't talk insanity. (break) And here you see big, big scholars that "Yes, here is Indian statement for the whole..." There are many saintly persons. Who cares for your Bible? And Bhagavad-gītā all over the world... Even if you take Dr. Radhakrishnan, elected as authority, he has tried to comment on Bhagavad-gītā, not on your Bible. Has he done? Who cares for your Bible? He may speak favorably or unfavorably, that is Bhagavad-gītā. But he has not spoken a word upon the Bible. Who cares for you? Not only here, all over the world, who is going to take the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Bible? And we are selling millions of copies of Bhagavad-gītā. That is proof Kṛṣṇa is God. We can say that we have got at home. Here is God.
Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: But that's why I said... That is not possible, it seems, in a democracy. They have to have dictatorship.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means people elected. If public wants that the election should be amongst the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then it will be done. One man's ruling will not be possible unless there is dictatorship.

Gurudāsa: Consciousness must change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (train sounds) So this is the train.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Still, in some people there will always be some greed how to make money by sinful means.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is greedy. Therefore education required, spiritual. They should be greedy for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When they will see this is better position, so their greediness will be for Kṛṣṇa and other thing will be left away.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. (chuckling with devotees)

Gargamuni: I read in the paper. They're having elections in March.

Prabhupāda: Karachi?

Gargamuni: No, here, here in India. They're holding election. Because of the emergency, they had banned the election.

Rāmeśvara: In Bengal there'll be an election?

Gargamuni: No, all over India for the Lok Sabha, for the Parliament.

Rāmeśvara: So Tarun Kanti will be up for election?

Gargamuni: No. That's something else. This is for the Parliament.

Rāmeśvara: So Indira's not being up for election.

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: Just the Parliament members, that's all, not the ministers.

Prabhupāda: No, Indira... She must be Parliament member.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes, but I don't think she's affected. I didn't read. I just saw on the man's desk. I just saw the elections to be held.

Rāmeśvara: She's from Allahabad?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: So she's Parliament. Maybe for her also.

Rāmeśvara: It'll be fixed.

Gargamuni: So, Prabhupāda, I'll have to leave on the 25th from here 'cause I could only get a 28-day visa from Kathmandu. So I have to leave the country by the 30th. So I'll go to Dacca and check everything out and then return and give report, and we can decide what we should do.

Prabhupāda: If we can get, we shall take it.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: I'm thinking that by selling all these books, gradually hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people will want us to give them some advice. They'll want to elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders. They'll want us to guide the society. So it will require great intelligence...

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to know where he is. Then we can give. What is his position? Then we can give him. Just like diagnosis. You have to see what is the disease. Then we give medicine.

Rāmeśvara: One of the symptoms of the disease is that all of the people are engaged in artificial work, and the whole world is interdependent. It is very complex system of world trade, world finance.

Prabhupāda: But we have nothing to do with that.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Rāmeśvara: This problem practically ruined Australia's economy. Five years ago Australia was a very wealthy country, and then they elected a new government, socialist government, and they began increasing all sorts of benefits, pensions, welfare benefits. And millions of people... Not millions, but many working people stopped working because it was easier just to get the free money. In this way...

Prabhupāda: So you should be very careful. Because you are giving free prasādam, similarly all lazy fellow may not come and take free prasāda. Therefore engagement must be there. Otherwise this lazy fellow will come, sleep and take prasāda.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. We do not meddle matters in that way very much. That is a sideline.

Rāmeśvara: And one thing about government that we see, at least in America, is that each time there is an election the candidates may make so many pledges, "I think I'll go this way."

Prabhupāda: No, election is going on under some rules and regulations, so you can make election under Kṛṣṇa conscious government rules and regulations. That can be done. Legislative assembly, the senators, they must be all first-class brāhmaṇas. Otherwise he cannot be elected. This is should be introduced. Unless one is following the brahminical principles, he cannot be elected. He must give up these four principles of sinful life. He should not accept any salary. Very much learned scholar in Vedic literature. Then he will be elected.

Rāmeśvara: That will happen one day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will guide the whole nation. The rascals, anyway, the naked and prostitute-hunter, what they can do? These third-class, fourth-class, tenth-class men are being elected. There is no happiness. There is no solution of problems. All tenth-class men. I directly challenged one gentleman that "You are all tenth-class men."

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: No, even when he was old man and leader he would go, keeping, resting his hand on two young girls. That means he was very fond of sex. There is no doubt about it. What business he...? He is speaking of "Mahatma" Gandhi. He could not get the help of two young men? Why two young girls?

Satsvarūpa: "Such great kings were more responsible than modern elected executive heads because they obliged the great authorities by following their instructions left in Vedic literatures. There was no need to enact daily a new legislative bill by impractical fools and to alter it again and again conveniently to serve some purpose. The rules and regulations were already set forth by great sages like Manu, Yājñavalkya, Parāśara, and other liberated sages, and the enactments were all suitable for all ages and all places. Therefore the rules and regulations were standard and without flaw or defect. Kings like Mahārāja Parīkṣit had their council of advisors and all..."

Prabhupāda: Our things on the veranda can be kept inside. Because they are here, somebody may... So many men are coming and going.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): Had to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is verse of Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You cannot violate the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are strictly under the obligation, or laws of nature. Why you are talking nonsense? This should be... And under the strict laws of nature—you are eternal—simply you are suffering while transforming this body or transmigrating your soul over... And it is so risky that today you are human being; tomorrow you may be a dog, a tree. Then your life is spoiled. Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it. If he begins, that is also great guarantee that he gets another chance, another chance. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate. Why this chance should not be given to the human society? What is this nonsense dog dancing, election, and bribing, stealing, and unnecessarily struggle? What they'll do? They are all nothing, all of these. What will be gained by this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's very effective.

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: No. There's no more personal animosity. A chairman was elected, Kīrtanānanda Swami, and vice chairman, Jayatīrtha, and secretary, again Satsvarūpa.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Who is chairman?

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda Swami.

Prabhupāda: He's senior.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Is Gopāla here? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Everyone was present except Gargamuni.

Prabhupāda: And he was elected GBC, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Hṛdayānanda: He was accepted immediately, because it was said that you had wanted him to be GBC. So he was immediately...

Prabhupāda: He is science department.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Twenty, yes.

Satsvarūpa: So this is the election of the officers: Kīrtanānanda Swami, chairman; Jayatīrtha, vice chairman; Satsvarūpa, secretary.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda, president, er, chairman. Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Chairman. Jayatīrtha, vice chairman. Satsvarūpa, secretary. And then, in that regard, we passed a resolution that the position of chairman can only be held one year consecutively, every year changed, whereas vice president, secretary, may be held three years consecutively.

Prabhupāda: Why? That should be also one year.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. If they have arranged. I do not know what is your arrangement.

Girirāja: Oh, I'll find out. (long pause)

Prabhupāda: When you'll call Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Girirāja: Some of the newly elected members from the Janta party are coming back to Bombay today and tomorrow. So we will try to invite one of them.

Prabhupāda: You say we have to go back to Juhu on... They say. (break) This is the center of mass movement.

Girirāja: Dr. Bigelow was also a heart specialist. You had that exchange of letters, this doctor in Canada. So he said that he felt that at the moment of death some particle or some force left the body which was not material and which could be called the soul, and he called upon theologians and scientists to research what is that thing that leaves the body and makes the body become dead.

Prabhupāda: Instead of going on Monday, we shall go on Wednesday.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Girirāja is still on the phone, so he says this Mr. Rajda is a real devotee and is really after you. He is very keen on being with you. And he's also prominent because he has been elected. So the thing is that supposing... Girirāja's idea is that he will be at Shivaji Park, and he will bring Mr. Rajda, and they will pick us up from here. And that way Mr. Rajda can ride with you and have further time to be with you in the car.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the thing is that will get us to the pandal, if everything goes on schedule, by about 8:30.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jail?

Mr. Rajda: Yes. In that emergency, you know, and about 150,000, patriotic people were in jails, J. K. Prakash, Morarji and all Hindu leaders and all of the workers. So I was kept at Central Prison for nineteen months. Then they released me, and after this election period, just I would order to fight the elections from Bombay South. And with her blessings I have won it with a very comfortable margin, 65,000. Just now we were at Shivaji Pack. And when Girirājajī told me that you were here, I told him definitely I would like to ask for darśana.

Prabhupāda: The material adjustment... Just like we felt little danger under the regime of Indira Gandhi. Now we have another feeling. This is material adjustment. Material adjustment may be temporary beneficial, but that is not permanent beneficial.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So there is some Kṛṣṇa's purpose that you were elected.

Mr. Rajda: It is through His blessings.

Prabhupāda: Take advantage of His blessings. Do some service. Your full name?

Mr. Rajda: Ratan Singh Rajda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (pause)

Girirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think we can go with Mr. Rajda to the pandal, and since you have already met and it is very late...

Prabhupāda: I can go. You want me to go also? You want me to go also?

Girirāja: No, I am thinking that Acyutānanda Swami must have already spoken and, you know, we've had the rāma-līlā. So I think it may not be necessary for you to go.

Prabhupāda: All right. Then you take Mr. Rajda.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Guru dāsa: Yes. I went to the visa department. I just thought I should go. And I spoke to one man there. And I said, "Why is that we always have to spend five or six lakhs going and coming for no use? We are doing such good work, we could put that five or six lakhs into India." He said, "What can I do? I am under the law also." I said "The law is needing some change." He said "Your organization already changes the law." He said, "You never follow the rules." So I said "That is indicative that the law is not good." So then he said, "Let us see after the election." Anyway, I spoke to him that this is useless, that we spend five or six lakhs every year going and coming for no need.

Bhavānanda: We don't stay out. They tell us to leave, we leave, one week later we're back.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Everywhere they are doing this. (Sanskrit) The world is misled in this way by bad leaders. We are trying to get (indistinct).

Guru dāsa: So I don't want to take your precious time too much.

Prabhupāda: No. Come on, take it, take some precious time, take it. Bring some money. (laughter) That is also precious.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Well, see he's coming because he is a leader in the municipal corporation, and tomorrow they are electing the new mayor. So I was thinking that probably on the way to the airport in the evening we could invite him to stop here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Otherwise, he is coming back on the 8th to spend about a week here.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: But he is very enthusiastic.

Prabhupāda: Very good. He is a good boy.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: And anyone who is vidvān, then that will be honored everywhere.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): So they had collected money for the election purpose. They have put in the State Bank for Congress money under some account.

Prabhupāda: They credited the account?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: State Bank has not given out?

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupāda: What money they have taken?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their own money.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Whatever that State Bank kept that money and gave that. So there is no fault of the State Bank. State Bank has no fault.

Guest (1): No, but they can't give so much money in one day to the party. Particularly after the election debacle. That money will go out of India and transfer into foreign funds. Because there are all brokers here. Suppose you have got hundred rupees. You can exchange pounds and get it in London. Anyone can do it. So this money was used for that purpose. If it was known that elections are lost and this money will not be utilized in India, they would not have given.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: America gave a lot of money to the Congress Party because Sanjay Gandhi was very friendly with America, with agent of many American companies.

Prabhupāda: America was against Indira?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting. She also knows that she was elected to the high office of Prime Minister and not imposed from the top, as Sanjay Gandhi was sought to be imposed by the gestures eloquent enough for all the sundry to understand. We hope that she will accept her Himalayan blunders in the spirit of Gandhiji and she might persuade herself to retire to Vinod Bhave's āśrama and brood long enough to (indistinct) prior power to be (indistinct) to everybody."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...now by Kṛṣṇa's mercy only she is finished. Yes. Wonderfully finished. Without Kṛṣṇa's hand, it was impossible. We never expected. Samūla-chāṅṭā.(?) There is one word, samūla-chāṅṭā. Just like you cut one tree, this is one, but the root remains there: again the tree. Samūla-chāṅṭā means to get out the root, pluck out the tree with the root and throw it. So this woman has been done like that.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: (break) "And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in exercise of executive authority in many matters appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to her family by her chief minister to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called. Those of us who knew her father are sanguined at Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order. When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress, we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is to bring her in limelight again, Indira.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's purposely there. Actually, that's a fact. It seems like now they are purposely not...

Prabhupāda: Mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...release her on account of mercy of Ānandamaya(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really. She was thinking like that.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: "Earnest Plea to Nine Congress Chief Ministers. Charan calls for all the assembly elections. New Delhi, April 18th. The Union Home Minister, Mr. Charan Singh..."

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain... Let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the... Let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is... That is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion, then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president." And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy: "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away. Now there is lion." This is going on. Hm? Am I right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: Charan Singh (Hindi) "Ninety murders in one district. 'There was a constitutional breakdown in the states,' he said. The chief minister of Maratha states had admitted to him that his government's reach was no longer running the way it had done earlier. He was receiving many complaints from the U.P., Rajasthan, and Haryana. Fifty murders have been committed in one district in Bihar in one week. Mr. Charan Singh's statement, which was preceded by the (indistinct) meeting earlier in the morning, led to a spate of questions. He was asked whether he was going counter to the spirit of the federal structure which permitted different ruling parties and centers and states, whether the ruling party M.P. would be asked to resign if a state..., if the states they came from turned down his party government and whether the central government would not invoke the power of an article which stated by the Constitution despite capitalism in the Janata party election manifesto."

Prabhupāda: So what is this yoga? (laughs) Sanjay Gandhi's yoga, just see. A rogue, devil, he is practicing yoga. His mother was practicing also yoga, the same.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He's Congress man. So nobody will elect Congress man.

Girirāja: No. He's like the Sanjay of the Municipality. Everyone knows he's corrupt and ruthless.

Prabhupāda: So let Mr. Thakur come. He's chemist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's applied physicist, and...

Prabhupāda: So you also were present in that meeting with Mr. Thakur?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He also saw the movie that Yadubara had. We also presented a movie, and Mr. Thakur, Professor Thakur, was also watching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara's movie.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That new one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did he like it?

Girirāja: He missed it. He missed the whole thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, he, er... A little...

Prabhupāda: No, you make some movie.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: They will.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ. So what is the value of such election, and what is the value of such important men? Therefore the whole system is condemned. Is it not the fact? Everywhere, not only in India. Not that the actual good man is on the head of the ruling power.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, rather, they look upon good qualities as weakness.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... That they'll achieve.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Go out!" (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: So he came elected. Because he's in power, Rajbhai is in power, whatever he has got...

Prabhupāda: But who will induce him to give up?

Indian man (3): If he can... He can elect him.

Prabhupāda: He can do everything, but who will induce him to do?

Sita Ram Singh: I don't know when I shall go to Delhi again, but in case if I go, I will bear it in mind. But meanwhile, I shall humbly request you that some of persons of your mission should also go and should bring him here so that he can find out a time to come to this mission. And because after seeing the all activities of the mission he may be rather much more convinced of the fact that this resolution(?) should be abolished. It is a special case. For the mission purpose this should be abolished.

Prabhupāda: Missionary visa... (Hindi) That because he's Vaiṣṇava, he'll not go.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Yeah, she said... The administrator... For one... After the elections they should be safe. But Mr. Choudhury said that so far as for the temple, that little pieces in the center, he said that can easily be arranged. But for the big temple...

Prabhupāda: The center?

Bhavānanda: We might do that in pieces.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, there was some sanction given. That government kash(?) land, that land is supposed to be given to us. It has been recommended to be given to us. That order has come to the local land officer.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Jayapatākā: It's scattered all around. In that area that we wanted, nine hundred bighās, say about a hundred or about sixty bighās scattered, three bighā, two bighā. It is government kash land, so they recommended giving that to us. But because of the elections, that's not making progress.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So add him. GBC is not to be changed.

Satsvarūpa: But then, in the event that some present GBC member leaves, either leaves...

Prabhupāda: Another should be elected.

Satsvarūpa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating ācāryas.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can use this letter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he says that "I heard..." This is from ex-president Ford. There was some discussion that perhaps he would be a candidate in the 1980 Presidential election here. Anyway, he's an important man. Then he lists some of the people who have gotten your Bhagavad-gītā as well as other small book in Russian or other languages or prasādam. "Mr. Igor Orligalik, Deputy Director (gives list of many Eastern Bloc professors and directors) You see, he keeps a file on all these people, so if ever we go to these countries, we know which people got our books, and these are all highly placed people, very prominent people. Good work. One of these lunches is very expensive-$7.50 per person. (reads:) "Los Angeles World Affairs Council cordially invites you to attend a special luncheon discussion meeting with the USSR-USA Society Delegation to the Soviet Union." This is one such invitation that's put out by these people. Every one of these people who spoke there, all these delegates, he gave them Bhagavad-gītās, the Russian Easy Journey and a calendar. (break) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: ...slaughter, bigger slaughter. This is my practical experience. Father hates. (break) We saw lots of people.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bengal has become ruined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the only place in all of India that elected a Communist government. Everyone else was so happy to elect the new party. But they elected Communists. Most amazing.

Prabhupāda: Where is Vrindavan?

Devotee: He's resting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, what I'm thinking is that that Mr. Arora, he wanted to go to Jyoti Basu.

Prabhupāda: He talks too much.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How? Who elected you? Who asked you? Gaya mane napni mora:(?) "Nobody cares for me, and I have become beautiful." There are many Bengali... Danle tarale nija ram salda.(?) (chuckles) Mass people never joined. That I have studied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they say that they represent the...

Prabhupāda: You can say, but who made you representative? You can say all nonsense. That is your business. (break)... who will give something standard, they'll be established. That standard is in this varṇāśrama. Here is the standard, that leg must be there, the hand must be there, the head must be there, the belly must be... One who has got the qualities to work like hand, he must work as hand. That is natural. These rascals have no education actually. Therefore I always say, "rascals." They manufacture. They are imperfect, and they manufacture. (break) "Probably," "maybe," like that. No standard logic.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's an amazing coincidence. This woman prime minister of Śrī Lanka, she follows everything Indira does. When Indira Gandhi held elections, she also held elections. She lost; she lost. She's coming back; she's coming back. They're very friendly, two ladies running these two countries. Sometimes when preaching I tell the public, "What kind of country is this? The land of the rājarṣis and some lady is running the government."

Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, all right. We should stay clear of the government. They are too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Cultural... We, our culture and philosophy. To be arrested is not new thing for politicians.

Haṁsadūta: She also said in that speech that in India it's not a shame to be arrested. In India this is not considered something bad. It's acceptable. And it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Page Title:Election (Conversations)
Compiler:SunitaS, Mayapur
Created:25 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=140, Let=0
No. of Quotes:140