Prabhupāda: Simply you come, you hear nice songs, you dance, you take nice food, you hear nice philosophy, and you think over, and you may go home. We don't ask anybody that "You press your nose like this, you make your head down like this, make exercise like this." We don't ask anybody. But people automatically like to dance with us. Although dance is labor, but they like it. So the next stage is to associate with us, to understand more and more. This is the second stage, to associate. First stage, faith and respect, and second stage, association. The third stage, if by association one becomes serious, that "I shall become a regular student of Swamiji," that is third stage. That is called initiation. Just like these boys. They are initiated. So in that stage they are guided by me. They follow strictly. Just like we have got for the initiated students we have got six, four principles. We do now allow illicit sex life. No, we do not allow these boys or girls sex life without being married. Yes. This is one regulation. We don't allow them to take anything which is not offered to the Deity. So we offer to the Deity foodstuff, grains, fruits, flowers, milk products, in that way, no meat, no egg, nothing of the sort. Simple food. They are nutritious.
Egg (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them.
Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed; and after independence, these rascal leaders, they are killing it: "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing: "Eat chickens, eat eggs,." This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to give up animal food. All kinds of animal food. Meat, eggs, fish, like that. And one has to give up gambling.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. There are necessities. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. But the thing is, people are trying to keep the body in overcomfort and the result is they are becoming diseased. We require to... The body is not to be neglected. Just like our system, our Vedic system, (indistinct) nature you take grains, you take fruits, you take milk, sufficient nourishment, so why should you take animal food? It is simply taste for the tongue. You don't require. Now these boys and girls who are with me for the last four years, they have given up everything—meat eating, fish, eggs, everything.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Which one you follow?
Bob: Which one I follow? I am almost vegetarian, but I eat eggs.
Prabhupāda: That is also not fully. (laughs)
Bob: No, not even fully. But since last time I've become vegetarian, and...
Prabhupāda: No, no, vegetarian is no qualification.
Prabhupāda: This is the same argument, ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). You cut the mouth of the chicken because it eats, it is expensive, and keep the back side because it lays down egg. You see? Intelligent man said, I am getting every day one egg. So that side, the back side, is very good. But this side is expensive, eats. Cut it. So he does not know, he is such a foolish, that if I cut the head, then the egg-giving business will also stop. Similarly, if you accept this philosophy, then you must accept this also.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Rice. And vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpions enter within the heaps of rice and lay their eggs. And by heat of the rice, they, another baby vṛścika come out. And when they're coming out of the, that taṇḍula, rice, the rascals are thinking that the rice is begetting the vṛścika. They do not know the inner secrecy that another vṛścika, scorpion, has laid down the eggs within the rice, and by the fermentation of the heat of the rice, the eggs are fructified and the living entities coming out.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But life, whether begins from life or matter? That is the question. You are saying that life started from matter. We are saying life started from life. How to make solution of this question? For life starting from life, we can see practically. Birds, beasts, human beings, they are begetting children, eggs. The life from life, he's a living entity. That we have got proof. But where is the proof that life started from the matter? Where is that proof? Just give one instance that "Here is a life starting from matter." Where is that instance? Anyway, at least one audience protested. It will be recorded. And he said, "I do not know."
Prabhupāda: No. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). He is so complete that one minus one equal to one. That is Absolute. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is expanding Himself by so many energies, but Kṛṣṇa is the same. There is no loss in His energy. Even in a human being or animal, he produces so many children. Just like hog—he produces at least one dozen children every year, but the hog is the same. If a hog can have so much power... And formerly one man used to produce hundreds of children. Wherefrom the potency comes? If a man is giving birth to hundreds of children, but still, he is the same man, wherefrom the potency comes? Why man? Even the fish, thousands of eggs they produce, and thousands of fishes are again produced.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All animals, they eat their children.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have seen the eggs of snakes. They are small, this big, the eggs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: As the Kali-yuga advances, the human beings will eat their children too. Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like in the last war, they ate stool, their own stool, out of hunger. So when there will be no foodstuff, they will kill their own children. Already they are killing, abortion. Not only abortion, children grows... By surgical instrument, they kill and they take out the child... They are already killing.
Prabhupāda: Already there. Everywhere chemicals are there. When the suitable circumstance is complete, then there is life. Svedaja. They are called svedaja. By fermentation, by perspiration, life will come. Aṇḍaja. Aṇḍaja means coming from the egg.
Prabhupāda: They are strictly following Vaiṣṇava principles. They... Whenever one comes to become my disciple, the first condition is that no illicit sex; no meat-eating, eggs, fish, nothing of the sort; no intoxication up to smoking cigarette, drinking tea and coffee; and no gambling. So they strictly follow these things. In our society, there is no tea-drinking even. We don't drink tea. So... Intoxication, pāna, chāi pāna, pāna... Pāna is intoxication.
Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy. It does not mean...
Yogeśvara: I think his answer would be that vegetarianism is reserved to the rich people who can afford it. That if you're poor, you have to eat whatever you can get.
Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets. Ākāśa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoḍā-ḍima. Ghoḍa-ḍima. Ḍima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.
Prabhupāda: So I have seen this instrument. Destiny is very strong. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Therefore śāstra says that you try for that thing which was not possible in many other lives. In each life everyone gets father, mother, son, and the father's duty to son, son, that is going on. When you take birth as demigod-Indra, Candra, Varuṇa—or as human being or as animal the care-taking business is there. Even the small ant during rainy season, when there is so much flood, they take the eggs on the head—you have seen the red ant?—and finding out some place. The care-taking is there. Even the birds, a sparrow. So when their, the season for laying down eggs, they bring some straws, and keep like that to make a nest for taking care of the eggs. So this taking care by the father and mother, beginning from the ant up to the Indra, Candra devas, that is there.
Prabhupāda: ...tendency.
Dr. Patel: But now the modern eggs, you see, they are not hatched out, and there is no life. Unfertilized.
Prabhupāda: There also, there is life. There is life.
Prabhupāda: So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy. And everyone can perform it without undergoing the bodily exercises, which is sometimes difficult for a common man. So one can adopt this bhakti-yoga process and become perfect. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If one becomes accustomed to this habit and at the time of death, he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, then his life is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on.
Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?
Reverend Powell: Thank you. Yes, I think I need it. You, you, you're completely vegetarian, and not have meat of any kind and not eggs at all?
Prabhupāda: No.
Reverend Powell: Why not eggs? Because...
Prabhupāda: We are not even vegetarian.
Reverend Powell: You're not.
Prabhupāda: No. We are negative of vegetarian and non-vegetarian. We are not vegetarian, neither non-vegetarian. We eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda. Rather, "prasādarian." We are neither vegetarian, nor non-vegetarian. Because we don't eat which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Things are prepared according to the order of Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa eats, we take the remnants of foodstuff. Therefore we do not fall in the group of vegetarian or non-vegetarian. We are transcendental.
Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out. Therefore it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. So "Life is coming from matter"—this is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Life cannot come from matter. Besides that... Just like when there is life, living entity, the body grows, body changes or grows, as you say. But if the child is dead or come out dead, then the body does not grow. Then matter is growing on life. Why, a dead child born, it does not grow? What is the reason? What is your scientists' reason?
Prabhupāda: There are life manifestation, according to Vedic literature, that some of the life, they are coming from eggs, some of the life, they are coming from perspiration, some of the lives come from a seed, and some of the life comes from embryo. This is all stated there. Sveda-ja, udbi-ja, aṇḍa-ja, jarayu-ja. They already there. Jarayu means embryo, and sveda means perspiration. Life is everywhere. When they take little advantage, they come out, manifest. You will find even on the pavement, footpath, as soon as there is crack, some grass is coming out. So life is everywhere, it is struggling, and as soon as there is favorable circumstances, they come in a form. That's it. Life is not created, na jāyate. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate: "Life is never created." It is existing eternally. Therefore it is said, na jāyate. So unfortunate rascals, they do not take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and making research.
Prabhupāda: Their only position is marginal, sometimes manifested here, sometimes manifested there. So in the material world the living entities are already there. You haven't got to create. That is foolishness. It is never created. Simply in the material world it becomes manifest in four ways. Some of them are coming like trees, plants. And some of them are coming from perspiration... not coming, being manifested through fermentation, perception. And some of them are being manifested through eggs. And some of them are being manifested through embryo. The living entity were already there. Their struggle is going on, and they become manifest in the material world in four sources.
Guest (1): Just to give one example, these days the science experiments have conclusively done that a particular egg can be in the body of the womb, can be manipulated into either a male or a female.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We say the soul is within the body so you can make it male or female, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We are not concerned with male and female, we are concerned with the soul.
Prabhupāda: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, that's just a complex chemical reaction. We can't explain it yet...
Prabhupāda: But "Can't explain"—that means you are fool. You remain fool. Don't try to expose yourself, nonsense. You are a rascal number one; you remain rascal number one. When the neck is caught up, he says, "Yes, it is complex. We shall see in the future." Why "future?" What about now?
Paramahaṁsa: So we understand. We will stop eating meat, but we can still eat fish and eggs. Because there are plenty of fish and plenty of eggs.
Prabhupāda: That is also better than killing animals.
Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible.
Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?
Prabhupāda: Because you cannot understand it, you rascals. He said that "Thou shall not kill" and you killed him. You are so intelligent. "And first of all let us kill this man who is advising 'Thou shall not kill.' " Your intelligence is so sharp. Guru-māra-vidyā. First of all kill the guru. That is called guru-māra-vidyā. Guru advised that you take food in goodness, sāttvika. So he first of all advised that don't take fish, just like we are advising, meat, eggs, don't take. Then they thought that "The cow is very pure. Cow is very pure, so let us eat cow, sāttvika."
Prabhupāda: Amoebas, that is automatically... By perspiration it comes out. There are four sources of life: udbija, jarayuja, svedaja, and, what is other? Andaja. Andaja means life comes from the egg. That is called andaja. And life comes from, under certain circumstances... Just like trees, grass. It is called udbija. And then jarayaja, just like we human beings or animals, they come from the embryo. And svedaja. And some living entities come out from perspiration.
John Mize: The question has been asked about the unfertilized eggs, why they should not be eaten.
Prabhupāda: Unfertilized, but there is potency of fertilization. You check the progress of one living entity coming out of it.
John Mize: Once the egg is laid, there is no chance for it to be fertilized.
Prabhupāda: No, egg is... The living entity is already there. Just like a woman is pregnant means the living entity is already there. So as soon as there is egg, the living entity is already there. It is taking time to come out. Just in the womb of the mother, the child is taking time to grow and become fit to come out.
John Mize: True, but the egg in the mother has been fertilized by the male sperm, whereas the egg laid by a chicken was not fertilized...
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. They have got that potency. There are four kinds of birth: from the egg, from the vegetable, from fermentation, and from embryo. So from any of these four kinds of sources the living entity come out. Aṇḍa-ja, udbij-ja, jaraya-ja, and sveda-ja, the Sanskrit name. Sveda-ja, simply by perspiration. Just like unclean bed they produce bugs. The man gets perspiration, bad perspiration, and in contact with air, with this perspiration, the living entity comes. That is bug. This is called sveda-ja, "out of perspiration." Your coat, shirt, if you don't cleanse, or your body is unclean, you will find so many moths within the shirt. How it is coming? From the perspiration, bad perspiration, bad smell. Not that every time the male female combination required. There are other sources also.
Prabhupāda: No. How it is coming from the bed, unclean bed. How it is coming the grass? They are also living entity. The seeds are already there. They are like egg. And as soon as there is watering then it is fructified and it comes. Similarly, the egg..., fermentation, what is called, fermentation?
John Mize: Fertilization.
Prabhupāda: Fertilization. Not fertilize. The birds sit on the egg.
John Mize: Incubation.
Prabhupāda: Incubation, yes. They are artificially incubating, and the chickens are coming from the egg.
John Mize: If it's been fertilized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, not fertilized. They are keeping in certain temperature.
John Mize: It has to have both, fertilization and incubation.
Prabhupāda: Both?
John Mize: Both. The egg cannot become a chicken unless it has been fertilized.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, that... It is coming out of that egg, so there is life. We do not recommend prohibition of eggs because living entity. It is not very good food. It agitates the senses. Therefore we prohibit.
Akṣayānanda: ...people in India, Prabhupāda, are still pure vegetarians, but almost all of their children eat eggs, and try to smoke cigarettes, and they don't stop them because they don't have any philosophy because of the Māyāvādī philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Almost 90% of all the people we preach to, they are all influenced by Māyāvādī philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was talking. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...say that the egg is from God, and the apple is from God.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you eat apple? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.
Akṣayānanda: But yet their children are eating eggs, giving up. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...say that they are doing the same thing that we are doing, then that should be a reason to help us, not to not help us. If we're doing the same thing, therefore if you are helping one, then you must help the other also.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. That's what I tell them. They say, "We already helped the other, but you came too late, so therefore we can't help you."
Prabhupāda: "So you are so poor?"—(aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa—"that you cannot help the second man? Then how you are charitable? You must be open to give charity to everyone." No use talking.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Kṛṣṇa is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that “As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, "You go back to India." (laughter) So it is Kṛṣṇa's kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, "Oh, it is impossible." This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that's all. So many advertise…, wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling—everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us… (break) (out of car) Why the scientist does not make chemical composition egg?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, make this chicken. You require so many chicken. Why do you take the eggs from other chicken? You come on, make it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don’t think the scientists have ever been asked to make an egg before.
Prabhupāda: Simply cheating and taking huge sum of money. All bluff.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Harikeśa: They may say "What is the use of creating an egg?"
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: "What is the use of creating an egg?"
Prabhupāda: You require so many eggs.
Prabhupāda: No, no, our point is that you want to create life, so first of all begin this. Create chicken, and then we shall think of other important living beings. Point is that in order to produce life you have to take another life, assistance. You cannot… As you say, that life is made of matter, that is not the fact. Life is made of life. So you are taking the eggs from another life. And in the egg there is life. That you do not know. Sometimes they take it that egg is vegetable. No. What is that?
Harikeśa: Well, the egg is not fertilized, so it's not yet a chicken. It's just an egg.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. It is lump of matter. So you take a lump of matter and fertilize a life.
Harikeśa: Well, I’m convinced. There's nothing… (laughing) … nothing left to say.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is that the scientists are claiming they can do so many big things, but they can’t even manufacture one egg.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that “Don’t talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don’t cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all.” That is to be done.
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult thing. If you make some vegetable, if you add more sugar it becomes sweet. If you add more salt it becomes salty. That you can do. That is not very difficult. Our question is wherefrom the life comes? That is our… So they do not give any answer to this. That is their foolishness. What is that life? They say life developed from chemical. Now do it. By chemical combination make in one egg and give it to the fomenting machine. What is that? Fomenting machine? They have got heating machine?
Harikeśa: Incubator.
Prabhupāda: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don’t you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.
Harikeśa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer…
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupāda was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: "Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become …""
Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the point. Just like the eggs. If there is no life, how the chicken comes? Why don't you manufacture an egg and bring life from it? That was... The other day I was talking. So because you are tenth-class rascal you cannot understand how the life is there. A seed. Take a seed. Unless there is life, how a big tree comes out of it? You manufacture something like that, imitating, and bring life. Life is there. Because you are tenth-class rascal you do not know.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Very hard. No need. (break) ...question, ask them that in the egg there is no life, and the life is coming by what is called? Fermenta... No?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fertilization?
Prabhupāda: Fertilization or... No, giving the heat?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Incubation.
Prabhupāda: Incubation. So why don't you make such egg and put it into incubation?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We challenge them like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then why you are talking nonsense that there is no life? Why you are depending on other life for giving you the egg? So this theory that life comes from chemical, so where it is true? Life is coming from the ... a life.
Prabhupāda: So do it now. It is not difficult. You can see the egg's chemical, and just combine little chemicals and put it in the incubator. Let life come. Hm? What is your answer? The advocate speaks.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Yes, we are working on it." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Working on it. Eh? What is the answer? How long you will work? Is there any time limit? Eh? What is that work? What is the answer? Hm? How long you will work?
Harikeśa: I don't think anybody is trying to make an egg.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Why not? Why they are not making, trying?
Devotee (1): They know they can't.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, there are certain scientists that are trying to create life, but they've been unsuccessful.
Prabhupāda: Then why do they talk nonsense, what the nonsense says? This is a very good suggestion, that egg is chemical composition. Make a chemical composition like that. That yellow, what is called?
Devotee (1): Yolk.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're saying, "To make human being." First let them make an ant or an egg.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. Then? (Bengali) "You cannot catch even nonpoisonous snake, and you are telling that 'I shall now catch cobra.' "
Prabhupāda: "There is no God." So you bring hydrogen, oxygen; create another ocean. Simply talking nonsense. Now, our challenge is "You just get one egg." Can they? Ask any scientist. Can he make one seed which will bring such a big tree? And where is that science? They're all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: "Yes. We shall do it, future." That's all. This is dog's obstinacy. We say, "Take one egg. Analyze what chemicals are there. Put together." "No." "Yes, it will be..." And we have to accept this obstinacy as science? It is open. If you are really scientist, you take the egg; analyze what chemicals are there.
Prabhupāda: This is fair proposal. You take one egg, analyze. If you are scientist, you find out what are the chemicals. You have got all the chemicals. And mix it up, the color yellow, and dip into what is called, celluloid ? Or...?
Brahmānanda: Cellulose?
Prabhupāda: Cellulose, covering? It is just like cellulose. And put underneath the incubator and get. Then we shall accept you. Why not ask all these rascals all over the world?
Brahmānanda: One thing the egg has, the egg has... It's red because there is blood there for nourishment. And they cannot even produce blood.
Prabhupāda: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That's all. Why don't you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? It is practical suggestion. Challenge then in big, big meeting. (break) ...past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can...?
Prabhupāda: For andha? (eggs).
Dr. Patel: For everything. They... Even the murgis. Nowadays this meat-eating has become very widespread in India. Even brāhmaṇas are eating meat. I don't mean those who have gone to Europe or America and come back, but people who are staying here. Extremely common.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign that in very near future there will be no food grains. That is the sign. There will be no rice, no wheat, main food grain.
Harikesa: That will be it? The scientist and the egg?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: South Africa. There are many factories for chicken killing. So I suggested that the egg, you can analyze, find out the chemicals and...
Aksayānanda: Create one.
Prabhupāda: Create one egg. That was my proposal. So he is going to create. (laughter) He'll explain how to create egg from...
Aksayānanda: From chemicals.
Jnana: And make chicken.
Harikesa: Calcium phosphate and a little sulphur for the yellow, make some color, and cover it in plastic and put it in an incubator and let a chicken grow.
Prabhupāda: And you eat.
Aksayānanda: Yes. Very good. (break) ...dāhl will give you as much energy as eggs will any time.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Aksayānanda: Practically the same thing.
Prabhupāda: It contains protein.
Harikesa: Actually it's a wonderful challenge. This big, big scientist, big, big brain...
Prabhupāda: Big, big monkey. (laughter) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Harikesa: And we walk in and put an egg in front of him.
Prabhupāda: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro peṭ laṅkā dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy."
Prabhupāda: There are some animals, they do not actually touch the egg-birds. Or the, I think, what is called, tortoise. They simply concentrate, and the egg comes into being.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night when we were reading, they all left, especially on that point of following the regulative principles: no meat, crabs, fish, eggs. They all got up and walked out.
Prabhupāda: You said that the same cooking place will have to do, where they are cooking meat?
Harikeśa: They're not cooking it now.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: They're not doing that now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...is not planning. When he comes here he is determined that he will not eat in anyone's home.
Prabhupāda: That is very good.
Prabhupāda: Then? Then you have to depend on rain, and when we say, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ... Hm? And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). That means, rascal, you take one side, that ardha-kukuti-nyāya. Cut the chicken half, and separate the mouth—it is expensive—and keep the rear side. You get eggs. (laughter) So this is ardha-kukuṭi-nyāya. The rascal does not know that if you separate the mouth there will be no egg.
Prabhupāda: (break) Garuḍa. He is perfect vegetarian. You know what is his food? Snakes. (Dr. Patel laughs) And he is carrying the Lord. It is a devotee, you see? He is not vegetarian. And how powerful he is that one sparrow, a small bird, lost his egg. The samudra took it away. And he decided, "I shall dry this samudra." So he began to pick up some water. So Nārada Muni was passing. So he asked, "What you are doing?" And "Sir, yes, the samudra has taken my egg, so I shall dry it up." So he said, "But how you can do it? You are so small. You just pray to your head. You are bird, and he is the head of the birds. You just pray to Garuḍa. He can do it." So he prayed Garuḍa, and Garuḍa came and asked samudra, "Immediately deliver; otherwise I shall take step." Immediately it was delivered. Such powerful.
Prabhupāda: Garuḍa. But he carries the Lord Viṣṇu. That is not the point. How to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that is really.... To become vegetarian, nonvegetarian, that is not very important. But we are interested in Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. We are not in the group of vegetarians or nonvegetarians. We are Kṛṣṇized. We take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That is our.... We are servant of Kṛṣṇa, so whatever is left over by Kṛṣṇa, we take. If Kṛṣṇa eats meat, we shall take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. What can we do? Therefore we offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He wants to eat, and we take the remnants. That is our.... Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), so we offer Him. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Māṁsa, eggs, give Me," then we shall offer Him and take.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. He is asking very simple thing which everyone can offer. Just like a little leaf, patram, a little flower, puṣpam, a little fruit, and little liquid, either water or ghee, er, milk. So we offer that. We make different varieties with these ingredients, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), and after Kṛṣṇa's eating, we take it. We are servant; we take the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. We are neither vegetarian nor nonvegetarian. We are prasād-ian. We don't care for vegetable or not vegetable, because either you kill a cow or kill a vegetable, the sinful action is there. And according to nature's law, it is said that "The animals which has no hand, that is the food for the animals with hands." We are also animals with hands. We human being, we are also animal with hands, and they are animals—no hand but four legs. And there are animals which has no leg, that is vegetable. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. These animals which has no leg, they are food for the animals with four leg. Just like cow eats grass, the goat eats grass. So eating vegetable, there is no credit. Then the goats and the cows are more credit, have more credit, because they don't touch anything except vegetable. So we are not preaching to become goats and cows. No. We are preaching that you become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we eat. If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give me meat, give me eggs," so we shall offer Kṛṣṇa meat and eggs and we shall take it. So don't think that we are after vegetarian, nonvegetarian. No. That is not our philosophy. Because either you take vegetable or you take meat, you are killing. And you have to kill because otherwise you cannot live. That is nature's way.
Prabhupāda: So why did you take embryo from the child? You make embryo. You cannot make even an egg which can be..., give a chicken. So to waste time with these rascals is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: Neither. Overpopulation, the fish, they lay eggs hundreds and thousands at a time. You know that? There is not..., unlimited number of eggs they lay down. (break) ...say, "Your food is ready. Just little work." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Just produce food grain. Everyone will be happy. But why they are producing motorcars only?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they can go to the market and get the food. So they can drive to the market.
Prabhupāda: Why market? You can produce your food at home.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."
Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that philosophy? Rat philosophy? This is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya in Sanskrit. The scorpion is coming from the stock of rice. Actually, the scorpions they lay egg within the stock of rice, and by fermentation the eggs become scorpion and come out. Not that the rice is producing scorpion.
Rādhāvallabha: So are they coming from eggs, or how are they coming? Just the soul enters the dirt?
Prabhupāda: No. Just like it is a suitable circumstance from which the living entity makes his body.
Rādhāvallabha: But how has the cockroach been formed?
Prabhupāda: Just like embryo. The living entity comes of the two secretions of father and mother emulsified. It creates a situation so that he can stay there and develop a body.
Dānavīr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when we're preaching to people that we don't eat meat, fish or egg, they say,"Why not eggs? They're not actually living. It's just a, it hasn't been fertilized."
Prabhupāda: Then that's a rascal. You explain it, explain to him that why they cannot make an egg by chemical composition and give for fermentation and a chicken may come. Why do they not do that? Why they are taking eggs from hens? Why do they not chemically manufacture egg?
Bharadvāja: Must have life.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. If that is a fact, that there is no life, then you prepare egg. What is there? Some white chemicals. A little yellow. You can do it.
Rāmeśvara: Just like abortion. They have a process to take the egg from the hen, and they make sure that the egg will not grow into a chicken. It is like an abortion.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The life is there. You make some arrangement that it will not take part. That is another thing. If it is a fact that the egg is not life, then why you rascal do not manufacture a chemical egg and get a chicken? Why you rascal talking nonsense? That is our challenge. We say "rascals" not without consideration, because actually they talk like nonsense. Rascals. They cannot do, and still they'll insist they will do. That is rascal. Is it all right? (laughs) South, South America, er, South Africa, there are so many factories of begetting chicken.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the chicken factory, but they're taking the eggs from chicken. Why not manufacture small egg and give to the fermentation and come? There is no question of killing animals. Why they are taking?
Rādhāvallabha: They say God has provided it for us for food.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then you become a dog. God has provided you a dog's body. Take advantage of it and bark. (laughter) Protest. "Why You have made me? Why You are doing?" (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But that, they cannot do it. They cannot make any dull matter moving by chemical combination. Although they cannot do it, still they talk of it. That is another foolishness. We say that you.... Egg, everyone can see some white matter, some yellow matter, and some covering, plasticlike. So a chemical, mostly chemicals are white. So combine the chemicals and make white and cover it with plastic and give it to the incubator. Why the chicken is not coming? Hm? And why they talk nonsense that it is a chemical combination? They cannot experiment it, neither they can do it, and still they'll talk nonsense. What do you think?
Interviewer: What do I think?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this nonsense talking that chemical combination, there is life. Why don't you do it?
Interviewer: I think it's a continuing to search for whatever...
Prabhupāda: That any nonsense can say, that "I am continuing," but where is the result? When the result is expected?
Interviewer: I'm sorry, I can't understand.
Prabhupāda: When the result will be out!
Prabhupāda: Yes, put this chemical together and bring life. Where is the life? We ask, prepare one egg. You can analyze the white part and the yellow part of the egg, and you find some chemical properties. You bring them together and put in the same layer and everything. Now produce life. Where is that science? Simply talking. "Yes, we shall do. We are trying." Nonsense, trying. What is the use of trying? It is already there. God sent egg through the chicken; it will produce life. So why you are wasting your time in this way? Rather, try to understand the person who has got such a brain that within this chemical composition there is life. You cannot do it; therefore you inferior. Somebody has done it. Even if you say "Nature has done it," nature is then powerful. You are not even to the level of nature, what to speak of God. Nature is only one of the energies of God. You cannot understand even the energy. How you will understand the energetic?
Hari-śauri: It's difficult to understand how they could possibly say that there's no intelligence.
Prabhupāda: So one learned brāhmaṇa, he said, "All right sir, namaskār your Kṛṣṇa. I cannot believe all these things." And the cobbler, he began to cry, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is so great, He can do anything." So he, Nārada Muni asked, he saw the learned brāhmaṇa refused to accept, and this cobbler is so absorbed that he's crying, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa can do anything." So he asked him, "Do you believe this?" "Yes, why not?" "So how do you believe it?" "Now I'm sitting under this banyan tree, and so many banyan fruits are falling down, and I can see there are hundreds and thousands of seeds within the fig, and each seed contains a banyan tree. So why can I not believe? If within this seed a big banyan tree can be kept, what is the difficulty for Kṛṣṇa to pull the elephant through the hole of a needle?" He has got reason. He is not blindly believing. How the scientist who does not believe in God, he can explain that within the small seed there is a big banyan tree? Let them do that. By chemical composition make little seed. As I told, make little egg. They cannot do anything. Still they are so proud.
Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do. Then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemical, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be..., is combination of chemicals. Give this challenge to these rascals, that "Life is... If it is combination of chemicals, why don't you do it, the simple thing?"
Prabhupāda: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.
Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
Prabhupāda: Not only Christians, the whole world is now like that. Religion has become a subject matter of laughing. If one is God conscious, religious, he is considered fool number one, not very much advanced. Especially the scientists, the rascal scientists. And they'll bluff you in so many ways, that life is produced from chemicals. When we challenge them that "You make a little egg with chemicals and put it in the incubator and let life come," what will be the answer? The so-called scientist who says that life is made by combination of chemicals? Anyone can see the composition of egg, a little white and yellow substance. There are many chemicals, they are all white, and there are many chemicals yellow also. Combine together and put it in the incubator and see whether chicken is coming or not. And still they will assert, write big, big books, that life is coming out of chemicals. And people are accepting this bluff. So it is very precarious condition of present world. People want to be bluffed and there are many bluffers. And they are satisfied that "I am bluffed by a big bluffer." That's all. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: I have therefore said, "Make a small egg, then talk of big, big things."
Darby: They can make one chemical which leaves the life.
Prabhupāda: Not only that: if you are a sane man, you analyze your body. Now find out where is life. Beginning analysis is the breathing. You take... Now a man is dead. Somebody says, "Now, because his breathing is stopped, therefore he is dead." So what is this breathing? It is simply a little air. So put some machine, and the air may come and go and give him life. Take anything, breathing, then you take blood, then you take skin, then you take muscle, then you take bone, then take your stool, urine, find out life. Is it possible? Then why do you say that life is combination of chemicals? You take this blood, urine and stool, what is called, bone and muscle and air, what is combination, and produce another man. So they are talking this nonsense, and nonsense people are accepting. And they are being paid for, high salary, for talking this nonsense at the cost of the taxpayer.
Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?
Devotee: Fermentation.
Prabhupāda: It comes within few days. Why billions of years? Why should we wait for billions of years? This is nonsense. We see practically a bird can give birth to a child within few days, within a week. Why should we wait for billions of years? What kind of scientist you are? (laughter) Proposing to wait for millions... You nonsense. Who's going to accept your foolish theory? We see practically that within a week, and you say billions of years. Nonsense, stop that. Tell them, "You are nonsense, stop. Don't expose yourself any more." We see here, practically, within a week the life comes. Suppose the egg is a chemical composition. It is, it is chemical composition, that's a fact. But it gives life within a week. Why shall I wait for billions of years? Just see their foolishness. And this is being accepted as scientific.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They'll ask, though, "Where did the first egg come from?"
Prabhupāda: First, second, no. We see that... They say you have to wait, give the molecules chance, hundreds of billions of years, then you'll see life. But I'm not going to live for billions of years, neither scientist is going to live. But here I see practically that a small egg, it gives life within one week.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Life?
Prabhupāda: Life from egg, chicken. It gives life within week. So why shall I wait for millions of billions of years? You show, you make some combination of chemical and show that life is coming within a week.
Prabhupāda: We see practically. The egg theory, we can see practically. It doesn't require millions of years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to completely wipe out this theory.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Vipina: Not manmade. (break) It is not necessary to take millions of years for life to develop, because within five days an egg is there and life is being manifest. But scientists are saying it took millions of years to come to that stage where in five days it would only take life to become manifest.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are waiting millions of years? Accept that millions of years passed, now let us have it in five days. Why you are again asking to wait for millions of years? If it has passed? Rascal. From the sky, Atlantic, wherefrom... Big, big chunks like mountains constantly coming, cut-cut-cut-cut-cut-cut. In Canada, big, big chunks.
Prabhupāda: Chicken is giving life to the egg within five days, and you are scientist, you have to wait for millions of years. So chicken is better than you. (laughter) Why, rascal, you claim as scientist? Better, a chicken is better than you. Chicken is giving just after sitting on the egg. In five days, there is living entity. You rascal, you have to wait. So why you talk? Better don't talk. It is better not to talk than to talk foolish. Where is the scientist?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they don't talk, then don't get jobs.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Then they'll say plainly that "I'm hungry; give some food. Then I'll not talk nonsense. Give me some food." That's all. Take it. Tell the truth.
Sadāpūta: Do we accept the way bacteria's reproduce, by fission, splitting in half? I know Kapiladeva instructs there are four different methods—the egg, the lump of flesh, etc. The scientists are saying that bacteria split in half and produce two daughter cells.
Prabhupāda: Bacteria is produced from fermentation. Sveda-ja. Just like nasty bedding, from your perspiration, if you don't clean, then bugs will come. Sveda-ja. In India, the Europeans they eat meat, and automatically bugs and germs come within their coat and shirt due to bad perspiration.
Hari-śauri: When you say that they're born from perspiration like cockroaches, does that mean that the eggs are laid by the female and then the atmosphere of perspiration enables the eggs to be hatched? Like that?
Prabhupāda: No, from the perspiration automatically it comes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The thing is that the scientists may isolate some cockroaches in a box, and they will watch the cockroaches secrete eggs and this or that or whatever—I don't know exactly how the cockroaches...
Prabhupāda: Not, give up cockroach. There are many other living entities, they come from perspiration. Take for..., bugs. Bugs, they come from perspiration. Many, many come by fermentation.
Hari-śauri: Yes, but it seems that form of the bug must come from the form of another bug.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No... They cannot, they cannot. That is my challenge. That first of all you bring life from the egg. You prepare a egg composition, and put it in the incubator and let some living entity come out. So can they do it? So why they will speak all nonsense?
Yadubara: They admit they can't do it.
Prabhupāda: Then they are rascal. What they cannot do, they're speaking lots of and getting Nobel prize.
Yadubara: They say how in the future they can.
Prabhupāda: How cheating.
Prabhupāda: But a chicken is better than you. Don't talk nonsense. (laughter) Chicken is already doing in his way. You'll see he's laying down, chemical egg, and fermenting, and within week come. So he's better than you.
Yadubara: They'll say that we can also do that, we can also produce child.
Prabhupāda: Hm? You can, but you, rascal, you've never done it, simply speak.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we are layman, and we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction that cow, milk is very important, we drink the cow's milk, therefore she is mother. So at least she should be saved from being killed. This is common sense. Apart from other big, big reasoning, we take it, Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya, so we take it. Besides that, so far vegetables are concerned, Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "If anyone offers Me even patram," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam,"I eat them." So we take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. So Kṛṣṇa says "You give Me these vegetables, plants." So we offer Him, and then we take. Besides that, everybody has to eat something. So generally, food grains, vegetables, they are recommended for eating purpose. And those who want to eat meat or fish, they can do so, but at least they can avoid the important life of cow. That is recommended. So far we are concerned, we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and this, there is no such thing as meat or fish, or egg, but we are living.
Prabhupāda: Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing. Egg, you can see there is some white substance and yellow substance, and you are very big scientist, you find out what are the chemicals and combine it and put it under legs of the chicken or in the incubator and bring life. Otherwise, why you are talking nonsense and cheating people?" Not only cheating people, people are becoming godless. Everything is science. And the science is this, cheating, that life can be produced by chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Then this is going on. They cannot do anything, and still they are drawing high salary. Especially when they say that life is made of chemicals and they cannot experimentally prove it. How bluffing it is. We say a simple thing, that "Don't talk of big, big life. You just produce from the egg, because egg you require so many chicken to cut their throat. So produce it from chemicals." Why do they not do it? Is anyone to answer this? If life is chemical combination, you see in the egg there is some white substance, some yellow substance, so you analyze and find out what are the chemicals and combine it and color it yellow and pack up in a cellulose cover, and then put it, bring life.
Prabhupāda: No, you can challenge them with this, that "Why don't you prepare a chemical egg and give it to the incubator and let life come? If you cannot do that, then don't talk nonsense." This is simple thing. Analyze, take a sparrow's egg, small, analyze what chemicals there are, and combine in the same way.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, "No, wait millions of years." This bluffing. And this moon planet going means Arizona. That is now disclosed. They take photographs in the Arizona. That's all.
Prabhupāda: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascals do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken (laughter) instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Hari-śauri: I am sure you are right.
Prabhupāda: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientists. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not, hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?
Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.
Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.
Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the scientists will sit on the eggs?
Prabhupāda: Scientist may not be. They're putting the incubator, producing so many chickens. So why the egg is taken from the chicken? Why not manufacture and produce hundreds and thousands of chickens, chemical? First of all, begin with chicken then with other.
Prabhupāda: If by mixing something they can bring life, why not in the egg?
Hari-śauri: Yes, they can't even do it here.
Prabhupāda: Simply for... But you rascals you cannot understand how they are speaking rascaldom.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, but he thinks, "I can eat chicken or eggs or fish."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, that is dependent. Wherefrom the chicken comes?
Atreya Ṛṣi: From the fields.
Prabhupāda: Fields? No, it comes from the chicken.
Atreya Ṛṣi: But if I have good intelligence, I can make many machines and put many eggs in them and have all the supplies of chicken that I want.
Prabhupāda: That also I have already explained, you depend on another chicken's egg. You cannot manufacture the egg. That is my challenge, that you manufacture the egg by chemical combination and put into the machine. That you cannot do. Another living chicken must lay down the egg, then you can reclaim. You're dependent. Where is your independence? Everywhere you are dependent. How you declare independence? Where is your independence?
Dayānanda: They think that the countries that have the materialistic advancement or scientific advancements, that they are very well situated.
Prabhupāda: Well, scientific advancement, all this nonsense you can say. Just like Iran. God has given the oil underneath the ground, you are so proud. But if God would not give you the oil, then you starve in the desert. Then talk of improvement, nonsense. You're dependent on the oil. That is given by God. By God's grace, you have got some stock of oil, and there is good demand of oil. Then you are proud of making advancement. You are depending on the oil. The oil is supplied by God. You're dependent. Where is your independence? When the oil is finished, then your all pride is finished. Where is your independence?
Prabhupāda: Chakapat. So whatever is going on in the name of religion, simply cheating. Because religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the laws given by God. That is religion. But they do not know who is God and what is the law. And God is coming personally, giving the laws. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). They'll not take it. In the absence they'll say, "We have not seen God. We do not know who is God." And when He comes, they don't take. They are misguided by the leaders. Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Take Bhagavad-gītā, but don't touch Kṛṣṇa. Untouchable. Take the egg and cut the throat of the chicken; it is expensive. Take only the hind part; you'll get the egg. And mouth is expensive, cut it. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). Very intelligent, that this part is expensive and this part is productive. Keep this part and cut. So as soon as in Bhagavad-gītā we say you have to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa—no, cut. That part, cut. And Kṛṣṇa said karmaṇy evādhikāras te, and work like ass day and night. "Ah, yes, we'll do."
Prabhupāda: And while flying they lay down eggs. And the eggs, while falling down, they become birds. By the, what is called?
Hari-śauri: Friction?
Prabhupāda: No, no. When they, what it is called. Velocity of falling down, it becomes fomented, and then the birds come out. Just like parasites. No? Parachute?
Hari-śauri: Yes, parachute.
Prabhupāda: While falling down, it opens. This is God's creation. Inconceivable. And that aeroplane, flying machine, is so perfect.
Prabhupāda: Monkey brain?
Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They cut the skull off a live monkey. They cut the skull off like egg and drink the brain through straw. I read in magazine how they do this. It's very common practice now.
Prabhupāda: Where they get this monkeys?
Caraṇāravindam: The monkey's alive and as you drink its brain it dies. They think this is also sport to them. Big horrible demons.
Indian man: No. Eggs. They have started eating two lakhs of eggs in Ahmedabad.
Indian man: Ahmedabad is a very big meat-eating center.
Prabhupāda: In Surat I was guest of that Jariwala. So on the morning walk I went to the riverside. So I saw so many fisherwoman carrying the big basket. So I asked the driver, he was Mohammedan, "Why these fisherwomen here?" He said, "Nowadays, all Gujaratis, they're eating fish."
Prabhupāda: No, no... These people who were eating meat, they knew that "I am doing wrong." But Vivekananda approved, "No, it is not wrong. It is wrong. Whatever you like you can do." Then they began to eat meat. Fish they were already eating. Meat and chicken and eggs and everything.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?
Prabhupāda: It is closed?
Hari-śauri: Yes. The year before they got kicked out, I was distributing magazines at one political rally. The Prime Minister came to Perth. And when he came there all the farmers came, and they were so angry, they were throwing rotten eggs at him and tin cans and all kinds of things.
Prabhupāda: The farmers.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Rāmeśvara: They devalued the Australian dollar very much. The Australian dollar used to be worth maybe...
Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these boys, they are advised to follow the regulative principle: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no fish, no egg, no onion. So many "no's."
Guest (2): That is also...
Guest (1): No, Guruji, you cannot take these persons who are by this strictness as your disciple only.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...perception. That is experience. Why do you give on seeing only? By seeing one mango you cannot understand what quality it is, but you have to touch with your tongue. Therefore in chemical laboratory the characteristics are there: "This is the color. This is the taste. This is the reaction." So you have to gather experience like that, not by simply seeing. That... I gave the example. Now you take one egg. What is there? Some white and some yellow substance. So you make one egg with white and yellow and bring life. So what is the power of your seeing? A small egg. Take a small egg. The covering, some celluloid, within, some white substance, some yellow substance. Or make further analysis and give some chemicals of the same taste, same color, same characteristic—now bring life. But the same thing. You put under the feather of the chicken. Within five days it will bring life. So what is the credit of these rascal doctors, D.H.C.? That a small chicken is better than these D.H.C. Why don't you see practically?
Gargamuni: The chicken is simply sitting, and he is...
Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?
Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.
Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are unperceivable by you, don't argue. Take the statement of the authority. So everything imperceptible, even this material world... You do not know what are these planets. Many hundred thousand millions are glittering. You do not know anything. Neither you can know it. Similarly, you cannot know. You have not done it, to manufacture life. How do you rascals say that "It is like this. It is like this. It is chemical combination"? You cannot manufacture even egg, little chemical. But the chemical is coming from within the body of the chicken. It is being perfectly done, but you cannot do it. So what is your knowledge? Why you are so much proud of this knowledge? It is so imperfect.
Prabhupāda: They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: No. You can say indirectly that "God is the father of all living entities. He's the supreme father. God does not like that the weaker living entities should be killed for the satisfaction of the stomach. But when there is no alternative, then the stronger animal can take. Because even one takes vegetables, that is also eating another animal, another living being. So therefore, human being must use discretion, that 'If I can live in this way, why shall I kill one important animal?' That is human intelligence." In this way you have to preach. And besides that, according to our Bhagavad-gītā, God says, "Give Me patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26)." He never said, "Give Me meat. Give me egg." So we are devotee to Kṛṣṇa. So we give Him this vegetables, milk, and so many nice things, and take prasādam. In this way don't quarrel with them in the beginning.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...
Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They lay eggs.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How big it is?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know how big it is.
Prabhupāda: Not very big.
Prabhupāda: How it is... How would that..., eggs.
Hari-śauri: Yes. How would he have that loving feeling to hatch the baby?
Gargamuni: After all, they are man-eaters. They would immediately eat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore he's budhāḥ. Iti matvā. When he understands that there is a big scientist who has made all these things, iti matvā, he understands that. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. "Oh, my great scientist is Kṛṣṇa." And dṛḍha-vratāḥ. "Oh, here is the scientist. Why shall I go to the rascal scientist? Simply jugglery of words." They cannot make even an egg, and they are promising life, and we come from chemicals. They cannot study even the what contents of the egg, what is the con... We can see in our naked eyes. There is some white substance, yellow substance, covered. You do it. You are claiming chemical. You cannot study even the chemicals from the egg. Hm? What do you think, scientist? Do you know what is the chemical?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you make another egg with the chemicals and bring life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle they can make all chemicals in the egg.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they can make, but...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they don't make life.
Prabhupāda: If you see... You can do everything, but at the end it is failure.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The chemical composition of the egg can be synthesized.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. I say that you do it, and make it egg-shaped, and now we have... What is called? Incubator?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Incubation.
Prabhupāda: Incubation, and get. Why take the egg from the chicken?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make the chemicals, but life cannot come out of that.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that life comes from chemicals? Why do you make this false propaganda? That is our protest. You cannot do, it and still you make false propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So one snake charmer, he cannot capture that hele snake, and he is expecting to capture cobra. (Bengali) I challenge them that "First of all make one egg, a small egg. (laughter) Make some chemicals and give it to the incubator and let the chicken come." The rascals, they cannot do that.
Ādi-keśava: So they were saying, "I will not make an egg now. In twenty years I will make you a chicken." They say, "I can't make an egg now, but in twenty years I'll make you a chicken."
Prabhupāda: Without egg where is chicken? Where is that example? Why you are talking again? Where (laughter) is that chicken made? Rascal. Without egg where is the chicken? So challenge them like that. Prove them that they have no brain. So there is immediately, automatically... "You have no brain. Where is the question of brainwash?"
Mādhava: They would say there are eggs in the stream and...
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the eggs came?
Mādhava: From another fish.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the eggs came?
Mādhava: From another fish.
Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic. The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life.
Prabhupāda: I say to the scientists (indistinct) who as they say, life comes from chemicals. And I say that take some small egg. You can see, there are some substances like yellow substance and white substance. Analyze the chemicals and combine them and put in the incubator. You get one chicken. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, they say that life comes from chemicals. What is the answer?
Devotee: They say it is too complicated.
Prabhupāda: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another. The Garuḍa bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very scientific. Because normally the bird has to sit on the egg for producing heat to hatch the egg.
Prabhupāda: The heat is produced by the, what is called, motion.
Prabhupāda: Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. If gaṅgā-jala is pure, it is pure here and there also. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tīrtha-yātrā pariśrama, kevala manera bhrama: "It is simply satisfying the mind." Otherwise, wherever there is Ganges, there is Yamunā, that is sacred place. Delhi also, sacred place. There is Gaṅgā. Anyway, so, we should take advantage of the knowledge of sādhu. And that is real progress. So catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Four kinds of men, they come to God, Kṛṣṇa. God means Kṛṣṇa, not ordinary... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
- guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
- (CC Madhya 19.151)
Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births... We are rotating... (break) ...superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is all Brahmā's.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the parents are prepared to pick up the expense. That's all. Government curriculum is useless. They'll enforce kids to take eggs, three eggs...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's right.
Prabhupāda: ...in daytime, and four pounds flesh. Otherwise there will be vitamin, less vitamin. Or "Give them vitamins pills, this..." These... "Don't go to Yamunā. It is polluted."
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they produce egg.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eggs.
Prabhupāda: Eggs. And the chicken-eater cut throat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he has to become a chicken.
Prabhupāda: Fish. Fish as well. Fish also like that. You haven't got to maintain. They'll grow.
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Elders should be careful to give sound knowledge based on objective evidence to their children. Unfortunately a lot of delusional ideas are put into the minds of children in the name of religion. Dāsa and Swami talk about rebirth, soul, Supreme Soul, life generating matter, etc.... As a result of such delusional ideas put into them by deluded Indian God-man, Prabhupāda, who founded the bizarre cult know as Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, he's a real demon, this man. Kṛṣṇa has a place already put aside for him. His science won't help him at that time. "Knowledge and enlightenment cannot be had through meditation, which is only a form of self-hypnosis. Dāsa and Swami ask whether scientists can make a chicken to come out of a plastic egg. I do not know whether they are aware that scientists have made over ten elements, such as fermium, (indistinct), serium..." That's all right. We're asking about a chicken. We're not asking about the elements.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, you are simply producing empty sound. Where is the chicken? Rascal. The chicken, the hen, is greater scientist than you. (S)he'll produced another egg within a week. You simply "This, that, this, that, this, that," that's all. "Left, right, that way." What is your value? We don't give you value. Less important than the chicken.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) He says, "We have created over ten elements that even God..."
Prabhupāda: Who cares for your creation? Without your creation the egg is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says here that "These great Nobel Prize-winners have made protoplasm from inert substances simulating the conditions that prevailed in the primitive atmosphere of the earth. Do they know that human egg and sperm cells can be fertilized in test tubes and the fetus developed in an artificial womb or in the womb of a hired woman? Among animals that evolved on this planet..."
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.
| Page Title: | Egg (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur, Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 31 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=118, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 118 |