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Educational (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Gargamuni: What is our true identity?

Prabhupāda: Actual identity?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: But it is the mission of human life to come to that point. So at least there must be some center or institution who may give them this idea. It is not that everyone will come. Just like there are many educational department. I know in Calcutta in our boyhood age, at that time Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee was vice-president. So he opened some classes in the university. In each class there were four or five professors, and at that time the professors' salary was 1300 dollar, 1400 dollar. And the fees were collected, at most thirty-six dollar per month. You see? But still the classes were to be maintained because the ideal must be there. So our mission is the intelligent persons of the world may know that this is not, simply seeking after sense gratification is not the aim of human life. Human life is meant by... Just like Bhāgavata says, jīvasya tattva-jijnasa. Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The same thing. Bhāgavata is nothing but explanation of Vedānta. So Vedānta says that this human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. Atha ataḥ. Now. Atha means now. Atha, hereafter. That means after passing through all animalistic way of life, when a man comes to the stage of civilized life, perfect civilized life, at that time his business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, what is the Absolute Truth.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the śāstra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)

Guest (4): Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

Guest (4): And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: You see, two, two things... You can't...

Prabhupāda: No. Concentrate, concentration automatically. If I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and I hear, that is concentration. That is concentration. Immediately.

Sister Mary: But you can't read or talk to someone.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of reading. We are simply asking to chant. Reading will come later on. Just like a small child, he's taught... In our educational system they chant... What is that? That...? (Hindi) Pahara pahara.(?)

Indian man: Pahara. Alphabet. A.I.E.

Prabhupāda: They chant. By chanting, by hearing they learn. "A,B,C," like that. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." We did it in our childhood. One boy will chant like that. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." And we shall repeat. "2 plus 2 equal to 4." So repeating three times, I understand 2 plus 2 equal to 4.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That will not be effective. Simply a waste of time.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is the formula, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They actually see how we are changing the character.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, the leaders of the society, if it is serious, will adopt this, in the educational system, in their private life. In that way they shall ask some question, then it will benefit. Otherwise it will be simply a show.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya, Prabhupāda. I understand.

Prabhupāda: So, you are carrying(?) the whole Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu?

Devotee (4): Me?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasa..., no?

Devotee (4): Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Your real dimension is mentioned there that you are a spiritual atom. The measurement is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is the seed, or basic principle. Now, on that small particle of spirit soul we have developed this body. We have got human bodies, other has got the elephant body, other has got the mountainous body, but this is external. The real seed is that one ten-thousandth part of the hair. Similarly, as you have developed this material body under different consciousness, similarly when we give up the material connection we shall develop our spiritual body, and in that spiritual body we shall be able to enter the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position. This body you have to give up, today or tomorrow or one hundred years after. You have to give it up. The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī. Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, and we cannot become happy in matter. We require spiritual food, spiritual atmosphere.
Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: ...in Īśopaniṣad that modern-day educational system means culturing avidyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, avidyā.

Jayatīrtha: So they're spending so much, so many billions of rupees, simply to culture ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Making rogues and guṇḍās and hippies, that's all. The science is manufacturing atom bomb, and philanthropy is becoming hippies. This is the result of education. They are manufacturing compounds, strong contraceptive method, infallible contraceptive method. Suffering only. What is the time now?

Jayatīrtha: (?) minutes to seven.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this propensity will increase in this Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man: Until I complete that work...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.

Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.

Prabhupāda: When?

Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.

Gurudāsa: Did you ever...

Prabhupāda: Dr. Rao you know?

Indian man: I know Dr. Rao.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is explaining Himself, and at last He says that you surrender unto me. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So if one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then He's admitted in the college of studying Bhāgavata. Before that he has no place. Just like without passing entrance examination, nobody's admitted in the college course. Similarly, without understanding Bhagavad-gītā perfectly well, one cannot understand what is Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study. So this Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta-sūtra is the summarized study of all Vedic knowledge. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So people are in darkness about this great knowledge and the science of God, all over the world. They are misled. They're being misled. Misled in this way, that this human form of life is specially meant for understanding God. The animals are not very (indistinct), but the present leaders they're keeping all the human being in the animal condition of life. Their chance of becoming conscious about God is being sacrificed, being misled, by so-called economic development, plans. All this economic development means, they're meant for this bodily comforts. Any department of knowledge at the present moment, they're simply aiming at giving some artificial comfort to this body. But these rascals, they do not care to know that however I keep this body comfortably, I'll have to give it up. And after giving up this body, what is my next position, they do not know. They do not know. This is darkness. This is darkness. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to give enlightenment to the people at large, to understand the values of life.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started almost at the same time?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is very old. Presidency College is government, and Scottish Churches College, by the Scottish Church missionaries. There was one priest, Duff, his name was Duff. He started in Srirampur, a small educational institute, Duff Institute. He was a Scotsman. Later on, all the Scottish missionaries combined together and they started this Scottish Churches College.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still now the schools are respected now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still now they have good names,...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man. So as you have got past, present and future, similarly, I'm old man, I've got my past life, why not future? What is the reason to deny it? Past, present, future, that is the time calculation. I had my past, I've now present, and why is my future? They do not care for the future. They're so blind. There must be future. So what I'm doing for the future? Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future. So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance. Just like a boy does not take education, does not think of future. That is not very good. We must be prepared for the future, his next life. Yes, where is that civilization? Where is that education, that people are thinking for future life? Is there any educational system at the present moment? So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well, type systems, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past. But we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to give himself peace within himself, mentally and physically. Within his family, within his relations society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly. Another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West. That's the only difference." And I told them. I said, "We want peace. Śānti, śānti, śānti. And we know the danger of playing with the fireball of materialism, which is throwing its tentacles into every part of society: divorces, nervous cases, mental cases, cancers, suicides, family life is breaking. And it reminds me of Gibbon's writing about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. And all those symptoms are there in this so-called progressive, civilized culture." I used the word "so-called." And this mind...

Prabhupāda: But what remedy you have suggested?

Buddhist Monk (1): Reduction of greed, and substitution of liberality. There is no other remedy.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. It is very difficult. One saṁskāra, that initiation saṁskāra, and marriage saṁskāra-two, three saṁskāras, can be done, not the ten. It is not possible. Now the circumstances will not allow. It is very difficult.

Śyāmasundara: One thing that Malcolm and I were talking about before was that, he was lamenting that our educational system nowadays in the west, material education, practically spoils the child to understand spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Why in the West? Everywhere.

Malcolm: More in the West because the child is more constrained in his molding.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole defect is that we are missing the goal of life. Therefore we do not know how to conduct business with the goal of life. At the present moment, in every field, they are missing the goal of life.

Malcolm: They seem oppressed by weight of number, that there are too many.

Prabhupāda: No, goal is one.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Now, I, I, I don't... I am so happy that my son is happy, truthfully. But I am very distressed... And little boys, don't laugh because this is serious. Um. I am very distressed that none of these boys continue their education. What is going to happen to them when they are like you, when they're older, they have no talents?

Prabhupāda: But your educational system, in the western countries, the, you have got big, big universities. Why the university students becoming hippies?

Mother: Oh, well, there're always a certain amount becoming hippies, in America, anywhere. But we must...

Prabhupāda: No...

Mother: But we must develop...

Prabhupāda: I think the college students university students, they're all hippies.

Mother: Yes, but we must develop the good ones that have talent. We must develop them. You have the power to give these boys...

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that if the chance of education is there... In India there is no such big, big universities, facilities, but in your western countries you have got nice universities, nice teaching system. Why the result is hippie?

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

These are animal conceptions. So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life. Just like I was in the baby's body, I was in a child's body, I was in a boy's body. Those bodies are gone. But I remember that I was in such and such bodies.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Oh. There are so many songs. So you have devotional tendency. Develop it. Make your life successful. That is my humble suggestion. Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā bi... Anyone who has got this human form of life, he does not engage himself in developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he's drinking poison knowingly. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Biṣa means poison. A great opportunity, this human life. That is our mission, that this modern civilization, they have created such entanglement that people are rotting and they are losing the opportunity of this human form of life. Only on the basis of this bodily concept of life.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

So by order of our superiors, we are trying to introduce. But we are very unhappy, seeing these people. They are spoiling their life in the bodily concept of life. He does not know what is going to happen next life. But there is a next life. That's a fact. As we had past life as child, as boy, as young man, similarly, we have past life also. This simple truth, they cannot understand. Or there is no attempt in the educational field.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious... I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something... Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is...

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely. But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government's duty.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: That that's right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust." Every human nation or every human being should be like that. In God they must trust. So America, especially taken up the slogan as part of Constitution. Now there should be regular educational program, that every child, every man, every woman will trust in God. And this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So? Am I wrong in my arguments?

Devotee: No, correct.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it seriously, you American boys?

Prajāpati: Also in the Constitution, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a thing called separation of church and state, that they would have...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right. We want to educate, we don't want to take part in administration. But the administration should be under our guidance; they should take advice from us, how to do it. That is required. We are not going to be president. We are satisfied in our humble temple.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Devotee (1): When we try to introduce it sometimes, they very often say that it is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Devotee (1): They say that it represents...

Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. So is it not for everyone? God consciousness is sectarian? Is it meant for certain sect? Or it is meant for human beings?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, sometimes the serpents are tamed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. But still, they are dangerous. That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. The serpent is so dangerous. That, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. The serpent is so dangerous that even one imagines there is a serpent, he is, becomes afraid. You see? When Mahārāja Pratāparudra wanted to see Him and Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and others requested, that "He is a devotee." "But I know that he is a devotee, but because he is king, therefore I cannot see him." He gave this encou..., "The serpent even by imagination is also fearful." He said like that. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, manina bhujitaḥ sarpa kim asau na bhayaṁkaraḥ. (?) A serpent... You know, sometimes they have got jewel. "So a serpent with jewel, does it mean that he is not fearful?" Even with jewel he is fearful. Therefore, the demon, even with high educational qualification, he is rascal. He is rascal, fearful.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is how we people are educated

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the westerners are not that. (break) ...different thing. They never say anything against me. Whatever I say, they accept. We have got so many western men.

Dr. Patel: This education has created this, this sort of morose...,

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...in the educational system...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (3): Inquiring of anything and every...

Prabhupāda: No, inquiring submissively. Not that challenging. If one challenges to inquire, he'll never be benefited.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Yat te 'haṁ priyamāṇāya vakṣyāmi hita-kāmyayā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because these things are to be spoken to My dear devotees, priyamāṇāya, for the special benefit of the devotees, not for the ordinary man." Bhūya eva mahā-bāho (BG 10.1). Mahā-bāho, this word is used, "mighty-armed," who is very strong in devotional service, mahā-bāho. Bhūya eva mahā-bāho sṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ (BG 10.1)." Mahā-bāho, because you are My great devotee, therefore I am speaking further, very important subject matter." Next line?

Dr. Patel:

na me viduḥ sura-ganaḥ
prabhavaṁ na maharṣayaḥ
aham ādir hi devānāṁ
maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ
(Bg 10.2)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even the... Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods, and what to speak of the rascals? How the rascals, simply by little educational qualification, can understand Kṛṣṇa?

Dr. Patel: Prabhavaṁ, the original. Prabhavaṁ.

Prabhupāda: No. Prabhavaṁ means influence, influence, prabhava.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment in the society, there is very, very little care for the first-class intellectual class of men.

C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sallaz: And they took everything they can find.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. People, especially in the western world, they are actually looking after some spiritual emancipation, but they think that from India... Actually, that is a fact. Therefore, any rascal comes, they go around him. But why the western people, those who are on the top of educational and social position, they try to understand what is spirit life and follow them, and place an ideal life so that others may follow. (French)

Yogeśvara: Some of his members, some friends, were even visitors at the temples at Benares.

Prabhupāda: That is as a tourist, but that is not understanding of spiritual life.

Dr. Sallaz: I don't speak of tourist. I speak of a holy man. Be careful. Not a tourist. As a man having attained very high in truth, and for this reason, and not as a tourist. He was at the time crowded like you.

Prabhupāda: Holy man means...

Dr. Sallaz: (French)

Prabhupāda: The real purpose of going to holy places is to find out there the holy man and take knowledge from him. That is real going to the holy places of pilgrimage.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says one thing, one thing is very impressive, to see how well your disciples know the scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have been educated in that way. For education we have so many books. If from child up to the age of eighty years, if one is educated, we have got sufficient stock to give him education.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: We have got our educational institution in Dallas, Gurukula. From small children we are educating to become highest devotee.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French) This gentleman says we had difficulties with the police in the beginning. And I said, "Yes, but then I went, and I gave him all your books, and he read them, and then there were no more difficulties."

Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of our books we are being appreciated everywhere. In the beginning they might have thought that "Some of the hippies," like that.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu-putra: The traditional western capitalists.

Yogeśvara: It is against capitalism, this idea?

Prabhupāda: No. It is the movement to qualify men to their respective positions. It is an educational system to divide first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. They all required, but at the present moment, the fourth-class man is occupying the first-class man's place. We want to divide the society into real first-class, second-class, third-class... They're all required, but they have got their respective positions, not topsy-turvied. As the, as to keep the body fit, we require the head, the hands, the belly and the legs. If we simply keep legs, it is useless. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: He asks what language we use when we read Bhagavad-gītā and...

Prabhupāda: No. This is in Sanskrit language, but we translate into different languages.

M. Mesman: English?

Prabhupāda: English, French, German, Spanish, and other languages.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: The real problem is that the human being, I am speaking only of human being, not of the animals, because the animals, they do not know what is the problem; neither they can solve it. It is not possible. In the human form of body there is possibility of making a solution of this problem. Therefore in the human society, along with other educational department, there should be an educational department to understand what is soul, what it is (is its) nature, how it is working, what is the future, wherefrom it is coming. So many things there are. But there is no education for this prime factor, the driver. There is no education.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She feels that your affirmation is somewhat radical because she feels there are many groups and organizations of religion and philosophy and so on that are dealing with these matters.

Prabhupāda: Then why there is no solution?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Therefore she is asking you, "What is the solution?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that solution we are preaching, we are trying to preach. At least one section of people should know the science of the soul. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like medical necessity is there, does not mean that everyone should become medical man, similarly, the science of soul is necessity; it does not mean that everyone will be the transcendentalist or the scientist about soul. But at least one section of people must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. As much as there is medical man—he knows perfectly well what is physiology, anatomy—there is engineer—he knows how to construct—similarly, a section must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. So as there is need of medical man, engineer or lawyers or other, similarly, there is need of one section of expert who knows the science of soul. The medical man, the engineer, the archeologist or this or that, they are all meant for the body. Similarly, there must be one expert section who are meant for the soul. But all the universities, they have got these departments, medical department, engineering department, law department, but there is no department which is teaching perfectly well about the science of soul.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Take the index, otherwise how you will find out?

Rūpānuga: The index.

Prabhupāda: This I want. You are nicely educated. Now by dint of your education, you prove that background is Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Then your education will be perfect. Otherwise you are one of these fools and rascals, that's all. The particular type of education, mathematics, chemistry, physics, what you have learned after working so hard, now you should by your educational-departmental education—you prove that the background is Kṛṣṇa. Then your education is perfect. That is the verse, idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Now, the mistake is... You are talking with me; I am talking with you. Your body is there, my body. But which is important? Your body is important, or the force which is talking, that is important? Which is important?

Reporter: The force.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So who is giving? Where is the educational institution to give lesson about this living force? Is there any education all over the world?

Reporter: But you don't find that the fact that your monks are wearing robes or shaving their heads is a difficulty in the West, where not many people...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of East and West. It is the question of human life. There is no question... The Western people also have this living force, and Eastern people also have this living force. So where is the difference, West and East? There is no question of West and East. It is the problem for the whole human society.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Haṁsadūta: She says now in this movement a new generation is being raised up, the children that we have in our schools and in our movement.

Prabhupāda: There... Therefore we are educating children even.

Girl: For the future

Prabhupāda: Yes, future generation. Because the so-called educational institutions, they have produced only fools and rascals.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says you cannot change the society? We want to produce a new society?

Prabhupāda: No new society. A new status of consciousness. We don't want to change anything. We want to change the consciousness because they are in ignorance.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says it is a great service or a help for the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: No, all people... One or two could be taken out of many.

Prabhupāda: No, that I asked him. Actually the idea is in the society as it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The guṇas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brāhmaṇa, proper training of kṣatriya, vaiśya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?

Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."

Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah, Vālmīki. There were many. There were, are many. Nārada. Nārada was a son of a maidservant, śūdra. He had no father. So dāsī-putra. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the Jabalopaniṣad, Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa. Come on. I shall..." Because speaking truth. So unless you are a son of a brāhmaṇa, you cannot speak such secret truth. Nobody will say that "I do not know who is my father." It is social scandal even up to date. But he plainly said that "My mother does not know who is my father." So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as brāhmaṇa: "You are telling the truth." Satya śamaḥ damaḥ. Because it is first qualification. So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard śāstra and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the swamis went there. They lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the śāstra. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Because there are different grades. But at least one class of men should remain in the society as ideal, God conscious. Just like for our usual life we require lawyers, we require engineer, we require medical practitioner, we require so many, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who are fully God conscious and ideal. That is necessary. Just like in your body you have got hands, legs, belly, but the head must be there. If your head is cut off, then, despite you have got hands, legs, and belly, it is useless. So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to keep at least one class of men, ideal devotee, ideal character. At least, people will see, "Oh, here is an ideal character." That is required. That is described in the Śrīmad-..., Bhagavad-gītā, how to create a first-class man. Just like we have got educational institution for giving instruction on law or medical science or engineering, similarly, there must be an institution to make first-class devotee, ideal man.
Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Māyāpur you were speaking about you wanted Māyāpur to become a college for the University of Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: No, why Māyāpur? Everywhere. The whole educational system should be changed.

Bahulāśva: We should take it over.

Prabhupāda: Not changed. At least this will remain as a departmental knowledge.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible to make wholesale change, but at least let them accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a departmental knowledge.

Bahulāśva: We were wondering if Ravīndra-svārupa could come and help on this project. Because if we can get established in Berkeley first... It's such a big university.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But why, then, the lavatory they have made distinction for woman and for men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now in the colleges there's no more distinction.

Jayatīrtha: Co-educational bathrooms.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One bathroom. One residence, one bathroom...

Revatīnandana: The boys and girls live in the same residence on the same floors and use the same bathrooms. Practically there is no restriction on the association. They're not married.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Congress just passed a law that the health education, means the gym, gymnastic classes... Every day there's physical education class?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must be co-educational. They must be. They passed a law like that.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Soon they'll get so disgusted with this association, they'll all want to become brahmacārīs.

Revatīnandana: When we noticed that this amusement pier was torn down, I didn't think that it meant that they were less interested in amusement, but they have become more degraded in their approach. The amusement pier... They come here instead to be naked on the beach for their amusement. Or they stay home and use intoxicants mostly. That is increasing. (break) ...like a prostitute house. And almost every place they are, not even one part of the city anymore, but you see them everywhere.

Prabhupāda: The woman gives massage?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: So if we do not properly use this human form of body, if we become subjected to sinful life, then we get a different type of body, very—animal life, tree's life, plant's life, aquatic's life, insect life. Or even we are promoted to the higher standard of life, as in higher planets the demigods, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age and disease, we cannot avoid, either in the higher planetary or in the lower planetary system. But if we want eternal life of bliss and knowledge, then we must endeavor in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And such persons who are endeavoring for this purpose, they are called first-class men. And they are called brāhmaṇas or the first-class men. So society must be divided into four classes: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. That is general. Those who are endeavoring for realizing God, they are first-class men. Those who are less intelligent—they are trying to rule over the material world—they are second-class men. And those who are engaged in producing food and cow protection, they are third-class. And those who are useless for any of these three occupational duties, they are called fourth-class. And those who are still lower than that, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class, like that. So our educational system should be so arranged that there may be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men, not less than fourth-class men. Then the social structure will be in order and everyone will be peaceful, aiming at the point, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively.
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter: When does this training begin? In the very youngest age or...

Prabhupāda: Training, every training should begin from childhood. Just like you send your boys and girls to school. So any educational system should be begin from childhood.

Reporter (2): What is the secret to learning to love God?

Prabhupāda: Secret of learning God?

Jagadīśa: Learning to love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The secret—that he must be a first-class man. Otherwise he does not understand what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.

Reporter (3): What is the definition again of a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: First-class man? Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Brahmānanda: Bhagavad-gītā, they did not bring.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple. He must be tolerant. He must be full of knowledge. He must apply knowledge in practical life. And he must believe in God. These are the qualification of the first-class man.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Prof. Hopkins: What is the solution? What is the solution? Devotion to God...

Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is spirit. Then as soon as you know that you are spirit then wherefrom the spirit comes, or wherefrom everything comes? Then it comes to the question of God. And then we understand what is our relationship with God. And then if we act according to that, then it is perfect life.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Communism is coming. Go this way?

Cyavana: Is it this way? We can go this way. This way. Or better this way. Now he's coming the other way.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...create another danger. Just like airplane. It is comfortable. You can quickly go from one place to another. But as soon as on the plane, immediately your life is at risk. There is no certainty. So this is the way of material world. You create some comfort and you create some greater danger also. Side by side. It cannot be unhampered comfort. That is not possible. You create a motorcar—the same thing—you drive very speedy and you meet accident. Railway, the accident. There was no need. You produce your food locally and produce your milk. Then eat, drink, and live comfortably. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Make your life successful. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). And if you have got education, then describe the glories of the Lord by your scientific and educational qualification. (break) The rain is coming. We can go this way. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22).

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa is getting his visa today.

Prabhupāda: So we can return. (break) Whole educational system is defective because there is no spiritual education. That has made everything impossible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One young boy in Johannesburg wanted to join us. He is sixteen years old. So his headmaster said, "What you will do without an education?" They think that this is the greatest ignorance. These are the leaders of education, the headmaster. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...spiritual education, he remains an animal. That's all. (break) That is Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. To find out the ultimate goal, that is education. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "Wherefrom everything is coming," that is education.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they may say, "That is not practical, because we will starve to death with such knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Then... Then you are useless. Because you cannot go to the ultimate point of education, therefore your education is useless.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Prof. Olivier: This is the point that he's trying to make, that we have not been able to absorb into scientific studies those spiritual components which go up to make the whole of man. And I would agree. I think it's one of the great shortcomings in our modern educational system, that we... Not that we do not accept this. I think basically, as an intrastructure, we accept this. But it's like a house. When you look at all the superstructures you do not inquire too deeply about the foundations of that superstructure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (chuckles)

Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained very scientifically, not, I mean to say, a sentimental explanation, no. Logically, scientifically.

Prof. Olivier: The problem as I see it, of course, is how to get modern man to make this study in depth that is contained or outlined in this book. Especially when you are caught up in an educational system that denies a place to this very concept or even the philosophy of it, it's...

Prabhupāda: The modern education, they do not accept soul?

Prof. Olivier: Part of it in theory perhaps, and at the junior stage. But as they...as we advance, there is either a complete neutrality or a...just a simple rejection of these truths.

Prabhupāda: They do not accept soul.

Prof. Olivier: They accept the soul, I think so, but they do not care to analyze what it means.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And it is without analyzing this, what is the education? First of all this should be analyzed, what is the distinction between a dead body and a living body. That must be analyzed. Otherwise what is the education? We are dealing with this body. The body is always dead. Just like a motorcar with driver and without driver. The car is always a lump of matter. Similarly, this body, with the soul and without the soul, is a lump of matter.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And your big, big cities are full with hippies. You cannot induce them to give up their LSD, and you are making better men. Better men is going to become worse. Just see how cheating.

Harikeśa: Oh, you mean once we make the better men they'll just degrade again.

Prabhupāda: Simply bogus propaganda. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...that their educational system has failed. Therefore they...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should close the universities and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So by birth they want to make better men. They can't make them by culture.

Prabhupāda: No, culture... They adopt real culture. What do they know about culture? They're killing their own children in the womb, and they're cultured? Worse than the animals. The animals do not do that. These rascals, they are cultured? So wretched and fallen, and they are claiming to be cultured.

Harikeśa: So you can't culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: It's not possible to culture a superior man unless you are one yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all be yourself a cultured man, a gentleman. You are worse than animals. What animals cannot do, you are doing. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...man is defined by Cāṇakya Paṇḍit.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (1): Swamiji, you write originally in English or these books are being translated from some other language into English...

Prabhupāda: No, translated, but I give my purport. That is.... They like very much. Present the purport in such a way they can understand it. The original verse is there, but they are explained by me.

Reporter (1): Give some critical comments and explanations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they like.

Reporter (2): Does that mean, Swamiji, that yours is a cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Hṛdayānanda: A cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cultural movement, educational movement. It is not so-called religious movement. Religious movement is sentiment. Generally religion is taken as a kind of faith, but it is not a kind of faith. In.... I think, in South America that Indian man was asking that "It is the Hindu faith?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Chinese people, they are trying to raise their standard of civilization. Do they?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many.... Their philosophy is called dialectic materialism. They want to advance materially and they.... We have prepared one report of an interview with the president of a committee on United States and China relations. He's one of the leading experts in China. So after researching and studying all the educational, the libraries, all the different functions in China, we went and spoke with this gentleman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First we got a lot of information ourselves, so we'd be knowledgeable. We read for one month. We got.... We wrote away to all the councils, we got hundreds of books like this, special reports about China, we read them, and then we went to meet this man, because he is the most knowledgeable expert person on China in the United States. And we made up a report which we wanted to read to you, because it gives everything very nicely. It tells what China is doing now, and what our program can be for book distribution.

Prabhupāda: No, what is their aim? After studying all these books, what do you think? What is the aim of China? What is the objective they are making progress towards?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Their aim is that everyone should be materially comfortable. There should be no...

Prabhupāda: In that case, they should, if they have got sense.... Just like in the whole world, these American people are materially comfortable. But why they are producing hippies now?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are writing so many books to give them enlightenment. This is the process. It is an educational movement, how to overcome these obstacles. That is the sum and substance.

Richard: Do you think there are any other ways which are equally effective?

Prabhupāda: No.

Richard: Isn't the spiritual benefit that people in the āśrama here get...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must know what is spirit. They do not know even what is spirit.

Richard: Well, okay, there are many contented people in the world, there are many people who are at peace with themselves...

Prabhupāda: Contented-ass is contented. He has no problem. The best-contented living being is an ass. He has no complaint. So that is not civilization.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Boston is nice place for the Institute.

Śrutikīrti: Best place for it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's the educational center of America.

Ambarīṣa: Academic center of the United States. So now we are fixing up the temple very nicely. We've spent about fifty thousand dollars putting in all new tile floor and a beautiful new onyx altar. Very, very gorgeous.

Prabhupāda: So it is framework or solid building?

Ambarīṣa: The building? It's stone, brownstone.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then it's nice.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I'm sure it satisfies a deep need. I'm sure that's true.

Prabhupāda: No, it is the need of the human society. There is no alternative. In the Vedic mantra it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must accept this. Otherwise, his human life is spoiled. If you simply trained up to live like an animal, then it is a great harm to the human society.

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.

Scheverman: I can understand that very well, because I have been a teacher for many years, and also the principal of the school, and can understand your educational concepts and the importance of them. You cannot operate a school without discipline, without training. People cannot use their brains useless they are in order.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be proper training.

Kern: God consciousness..., would you explain something of the religious experience of God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, God consciousness is the highest level. It is not possible for everyone. But in whatever platform he is, if there is cooperation with God consciousness movement, then he gets the result. Just like in this body.... Same example: leg's duty is different and brain duty is different, hand's duty is different, belly's duty different, but when there is cooperation, all the parts of the body derive the same benefit.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Do you consider that going..., your movement then is basically more of an educational movement than a religious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Educational. It is religious, but it is not a man-made religious. Our idea.... I have already explained that our idea of religion means that like the sugar, it must be sweet. It is not that in Europe sugar is not sweet, in India it is sweet. Sugar, wherever it is, it is sweet. Similarly, the soul, the spirit soul is the same everywhere. So he, the spirit soul, is now embodied within this material body, and he is suffering on account of this material body. So we are teaching everyone how to get out of this material body and stay in his original, spiritual body. This is our real movement. This is another way..., another name is liberation. We are suffering within this body. Our suffering means on account of this body. So if there is such science how to continue our life without changing body, that science we are teaching. It is purely educational.

Kathy Kerr: Do you believe then that when your physical body dies, that your spiritual body...

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that your physical body as child's body, dead, gone. How you are living? This simple truth we cannot understand. Where is this child's body? Where is that, can you answer?

Kathy Kerr: Child's body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you had a body, a small child's body. Is it not?

Kathy Kerr: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this happened in Toronto. Wretched world. (long pause) (break) He writes what appears to be a nice editorial, "Weak Western Educational System"—it's on the second page—in which he brings out how the Indians have taken the worst from the West, namely it's educational system.

Prabhupāda: It is my version?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but I think he has gotten this from you, the idea of Vedic education. You're the only person preaching this in the world, practically. He's certainly read some of your books, Prabhupāda. (break)

Viśvakarmā: He said, "We heard that your spiritual master's coming to town. We'd like to put part of one of the articles from BTG in our paper." Did he put in any advertisement? Oh, I'm surprised. He said, "I'd also like to put an advertisement in the paper." Then he asked, he said he wanted to charge us money for the advertisement. So I told him, I said, "You're from India. You should want to do this for free." He wouldn't do it.

Hari-śauri: They use part of your article to advertise Indian culture. This "Could Plato have gotten his ideas from ancient Indian Vedas?" And at the same time they won't even give a free advertisement when you, the speaker of the article, is here in person.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have refused to pay.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this happened in Toronto. Wretched world. (long pause) (break) He writes what appears to be a nice editorial, "Weak Western Educational System"—it's on the second page—in which he brings out how the Indians have taken the worst from the West, namely it's educational system.

Prabhupāda: It is my version?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but I think he has gotten this from you, the idea of Vedic education. You're the only person preaching this in the world, practically. He's certainly read some of your books, Prabhupāda. (break)

Viśvakarmā: He said, "We heard that your spiritual master's coming to town. We'd like to put part of one of the articles from BTG in our paper." Did he put in any advertisement? Oh, I'm surprised. He said, "I'd also like to put an advertisement in the paper." Then he asked, he said he wanted to charge us money for the advertisement. So I told him, I said, "You're from India. You should want to do this for free." He wouldn't do it.

Hari-śauri: They use part of your article to advertise Indian culture. This "Could Plato have gotten his ideas from ancient Indian Vedas?" And at the same time they won't even give a free advertisement when you, the speaker of the article, is here in person.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have refused to pay.

Viśvakarmā: Yes, I refused.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In this Sixteenth Chapter the Lord explains both the transcendental nature and its attendant qualities as well as the demoniac nature and its qualities. He also explains the advantages and disadvantages of these qualities. The word abhijātasya in reference to one born of transcendental qualities or godly tendencies is very significant. To beget a child in a godly atmosphere is known in the Vedic scriptures as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. If the parents want a child in the godly qualities they should follow the ten principles of the human being. In Bhagavad-gītā we have studied also before that sex life for begetting a good child is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Sex life is not condemned provided the process is used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness at least should not beget children like cats and dogs but should beget them so they may become Kṛṣṇa conscious after birth. That should be the advantage of children born of a mother or father absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Irresponsible life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, meaninglessness. No meaning. So it has no purpose because of this very concept. So at least there's a strong influence, especially in the colleges and the university circles, the students...

Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.

Hari-śauri: You once called them slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses of education.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, by the mercy of His Divine Grace, if we can eliminate this theory then we can establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness on firm scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And there is a great necessity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. To save the people from this foolish type of education.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture airplanes like this with pilot.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they can manufacture bigger ones.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What will be the technique to attract the Bengali educational class? To attract the Bengalis who are educated, what technique will be most effective?

Prabhupāda: This kīrtana and prasāda distribution.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it seems to me they are not so much interested. There was a man who came from Calcutta about two months ago, a Bengali, and in fact we were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta. And I discussed this problem with him, why so-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement. And his answer was that the Caitanya movement was mostly for less intellectuals. For those who are educated, they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society. All the Bengalis get together...

Prabhupāda: And waste their time. The rascals waste their time.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Disciples. Hundreds of thousands, millions throughout the world, are reading these books, adopting some of these principles at least.

Janice Johnson: What does the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement offer that other religions do not?

Prabhupāda: I say it is not... Don't compare with religion. It is a educational movement. One should understand his spiritual identity.

Janice Johnson: I think I'm through, thank you.

Interviewer: We're through also, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (interviewers leave)

Rūpānuga: You made some nice points during the interview, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They wanted to know why we were doing things so elaborately, and you said, "This is for you, so that you will come here. We can live anywhere, under a tree, but if we were living under a tree you would not come. So this couch is for you to sit down because you can't sit down cross-legged." They appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the fact. We can live any condition. What he'll do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We saw the first Back to Godhead magazine yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The whole basic principle is this, that people should understand, as I was explaining this morning, the sat and asat. So at the present moment we are living in the way that is asat. But there is another life, sat. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to raise a person from the asat platform to the sat. Under illusion they are, what is called, amock? They (laughs) have gone amock. So it is a humble attempt to stop their, this suicidal policy. They are practically committing suicide. They do not know what is the value of life and how they are spoiling it, this valuable life. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā. They come and go, come and go. And there is no permanent life, it is all asat. So they should come to the sat platform, that is perfect. The more you remain strong in your spiritual life, then more it will be impressed, it will act. And if it actually is not spiritual life but theatrical performance, then it will not help.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not have any financial help, but His movement is going on. It does not depend on a..., on financial. It is independent. Spiritual movement is independent of any material help. That is spiritual movement.

Interviewer: But how would you be able to carry out your educational or book publishing program if you did not have a financial backing?

Prabhupāda: How I am managing now?

Interviewer: But now you are doing well financially.

Prabhupāda: You are stressing on financial help but my reply is that this movement does not depend on financial help. That is the reply.

Bali-mardana: In the beginning...

Prabhupāda: Any time, it does not depend on financial help.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.

Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.

Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: What... In your system, what do you propose to do with criminals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you propose to do with criminals in your educational system? How will you reform them?

Prabhupāda: Criminals should be punished.

Interviewer: Punished?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: How so?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How seriously should they be punished?

Prabhupāda: That you have to consult śāstra. There is direction. It is... Practically it is the same. Just like Manu-saṁhitā, it says that if one is a murderer then he should be killed. Life for life. He should be hanged. That is the old system. The king used to kill a murderer. So that is almost the same punishment.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The other words, the woman who is chaste, she is very much glorified.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A chaste woman is very much glorified in Vedic culture.

Interviewer: I'm particularly interested in the educational system that you are setting up. Do you think...

Bali-mardana: You mean for children?

Rāmeśvara: She's referring to now the system that we have for our children, Gurukula. So what's the question?

Interviewer: My question is because they are receiving this education, physical and spiritual education so that they will be free of corruption and sin, they might still, even with this education, they still might not be intelligent, what you consider intelligent people. How, you know... Is it more likely that they will be what you would term intelligent, having been educated in this system?

Prabhupāda: No, there are different types of education. Just like in the material world. There is education for medical man. There is education for engineer. There is education for so many other departments. Similarly, there is education how to make one man spiritual. So we are going to give education how to become spiritually advanced. That is our purpose.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's an educational process. Someone coming from the street you can't expect that he's given a degree in chemistry. He has to be trained up. So the educational process goes on and on. It expands naturally.

Bali-mardana: Just like in the beginning Prabhupāda was teaching Bhagavad-gītā personally to his disciples. But now in each one of his over a hundred temples throughout the world, his instructions are being taught. So he's expanded himself through his books and his temples. So anyone who enters into them, they are associating with him and becoming purified. So then more temples, more people come and become purified.

Interviewer: Are you prepared to die?

Prabhupāda: What is this question?

Bali-mardana: Are you prepared to die?

Prabhupāda: You are not prepared? Why don't you answer?

Interviewer: Pardon me?

Prabhupāda: You are not prepared to die?

Interviewer: I haven't thought about it too much.

Prabhupāda: Why you are asking me, "Why"? Because you are afraid. You are not prepared to die.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Our philosophy, as Prabhupāda said in the beginning, is that spiritually there is no end. There is no such thing as death for the soul, self-realized soul. There is simply death of the body.

Prabhupāda: These things are discussed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. It is an educational movement, it is not a religious movement, sentiment. One requires to be educated; then he is completely on the spiritual platform.

Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question before he reads the passage.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all about death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But for what purpose and to what end? What's the final end?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.

Interviewer: Is it an internal educational process or external?

Prabhupāda: It is internal but externally... Just like externally, behavior makes internal inclinations. If you associate with some bad company, the internally also you develop bad propensities. And if you associate with good company, then internally you develop good propensities. So internally, externally, they are interrelated. By external behavior we influence our internal energy. And by internal atmosphere we get the external body.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:
Prabhupāda: So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the controlling laws given by God. That is called dharma. So real dharma... From all Vedic scriptures, from the version of all authorities, it is confirmed that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1): "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God, that "Here is God." You are searching after God, and somebody, in disappointment saying that "God is dead." God is neither dead, nor it is fictitious, but it is factual, and here is this God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This is the verdict of the Vedic literature. There may be many other gods. They are expansions of the original Personality of Godhead. If anyone is interested to study the science of God, you'll find it in the Vedic literature, how Kṛṣṇa expands by His plenary portion in different names of God. It is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). That Absolute Truth is advaita, without any duality; acyuta, infallible. Advaita, acyuta, anādi. Everything has got it's beginning, anything you... That is our material conception because we have got the experience—anything we take, it has got a beginning. But Kṛṣṇa, He is described, advaita, acyuta, anādi: "He has no beginning."
Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Spoiled, all spoiled. All spoiled.

Bhagavān: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharman bhagavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ purusaḥ. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What is the next verse?

Jayatīrtha: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Anglican Church...

Mike Robinson: Sorry, the English Church.

Prabhupāda: ...but we are concerned with the educational propaganda, that "You are not this body. Body is your covering, shirt and coat. Within the body you are living, and as you are spirit soul, you have got so many things to know."

Mike Robinson: Sorry, could I just change the tape? Perhaps if we can pick up where we were, if you could just carry on. Perhaps if I can carry on from where I was, that what I'm trying to understand is the difference it makes, a person being a member...

Prabhupāda: You try to understand this, that as you have got experience of change of body.... Have you got or not?

Mike Robinson: Yes, I've got the difference there.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like George. What is his value? He's artist, that's all. From educational point of view, from things other view, he does not know anything. But he has got some money on account of his artistic play on it(?), and he's big man, that's all. Somehow or other get money, you become a big man. There is no question of culture or anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. The money will be the criterion—no family, culture, education. These things will not be taken into account. If you have got money, then you are big man. Never mind what you are. Therefore people are after money. Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? If you become a perfect brāhmaṇa, who will care for you? Nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. "Why we shall become brāhmaṇa? Starve? For starvation?" Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed. Who will pay them? Hayagriva told me. He's not getting any job. There is another, Mr., Dr. Henderson. He's also not getting any job. He's selling insurance. And Bon Mahārāja, his institute is suffering from the very beginning till now, simply begging, begging and paying, paying the professor. No student. First of all he started Vaiṣṇava philosophy, so doctorate, Ph.D. So especially in India, who is going to take Ph.D. in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and starve? So this is failure. It is already failure, but he is persistent.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?

Prabhupāda: He's not... Just like the same question, a criminal, if you say, "In the beginning, how he became criminal," is that very intelligent question? What do you think? A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this question, "In the beginning, how he became a criminal," is that very intelligent question?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.

Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That means you are not properly trained up. The thing is, the first business of human being is to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta philosophy. Now we have got this human form of body, it is your duty to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. But if your guardians, if your parents, if your government does not teach you, then it is our misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Do you want this to become a part of the educational system here?

Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.

Interviewer (3): Do you think it will come to India via the West now?

Prabhupāda: I don't follow.

Interviewer (3): Will it come to India via the West?

Prabhupāda: India is already there. You are neglecting. Why don't you admit that you are neglecting?

Interviewer (3): Will that neglect go, disappear, through the West?

Prabhupāda: How will that? If you don't like it, how it will go?

Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting, we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand, and because of their...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā, but if you do not study it, you neglect it, that is your fault.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (3): No, that is because it is not part of the educational system.

Prabhupāda: Because you have it. It is the first educational system.

Interviewer (3): No, but the system that we have here...

Prabhupāda: That you have introduced. That is your unfortunate case.

Interviewer (4): No, that is because of historical reasons. We were ruined by a foreign...

Prabhupāda: If the real subject matter of study you neglect, that is your negligence, your misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Now how to rectify this...

Prabhupāda: You can take it now. You are simply arguing. Why don't you take it? That means you don't want to take it. There is the thing, but if you want, you can take it. But if you don't want, then how we can help you?

Interviewer (5): On you return from West do you feel..., do you think your movement in India has gained ground or created consciousness...

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in any particular country. This is meant for the whole human society. As you think "India" or "America," we do not think like that. We take the opportunity wherever it is possible to introduce more and more we take that opportunity.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): You mean to say that this should become part, an integral part of the educational system?

Prabhupāda: That is the most important part. If you do not know what you are, then you are talking like a nonsense. If you have lost your identity, then what is your education?

Interviewer (4): No, but we should realize the politicians...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of politician or economics. It is general education, that you must know your identity, what you are. Then knowledge...

Interviewer (4): I am living under the system, and that system is...

Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.

Interviewer (4): That means the movement should make an attack on the politicians, people who make the decisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?

Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says... Because he is doing a lot of educational... He has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says that he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said, "We don't want to see him criticized."

Hari-śauri: They're supporting him.

Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?

Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge. The Bangalore University, some people at Bangalore University want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: He submits?

Pradyumna: They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: That is his...

Hari-śauri: Some U.S. men, though, they gave a report that whilst they were talking to him he made different things appear and disappear. They wanted to examine him, and he wouldn't allow it. But during the course of the conversation he made several things appear and disappear. Like he produced this type of nut that comes from Nepal. It just appeared in his hand. And then he closed his hands and opened them up again and the nut, the same nut was there. But this time with some gold, a gold cross hanging from it.

Pradyumna: A Rudrākṣa. Some rare kind of Rudrākṣa. Then made it appear again with all gold, and then he gave it to the man.

Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.

Prabhupāda: This is magic.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Maṇihāra: "This will be a cultural gateway of India for the people of the world. Hyderabad is the South Indian headquarters for ISKCON in India. The magnificent Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple at Nampally Station Road, inaugurated by Swami Prabhupāda, will serve as a center of the cultural, spiritual, educational and social activities given to uplift the lives of people here. According to Śrī Mahāṁśa Swami, the president of the Society here, the devotees will hold seminars in colleges, factories, business centers, universities, schools, etc., to teach the techniques of spiritualizing the day-to-day life. Deity worship accompanied by the constant chanting of the holy names will be a special feature at the center. Besides, there will be daily classes in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam, and the Upaniṣads. There will be a Vedic library consisting of Swami Prabhupāda's books and various books on comparative study of religion. A cassette library will be a special feature here. Devotees will travel into towns and villages and do saṅkīrtana for the uplift of the masses. ISKCON Hyderabad is introducing for the first time in South India its major 600 acre community farming project, 40 kilometers from Hyderabad, to benefit about 20,000 villages. Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, handloom centers, nature-cure hospital, and gurukula school project. Swami Prabhupāda's most substantial contribution, however, is to be found in his books, a veritable storehouse of knowledge and wisdom. He has written more than 50 books so far, explaining the principles of Kṛṣṇa or God consciousness in a logical, practical, and scientific way. Through his books people are understanding the eternal wisdom of the ancient Indian scriptures. That ISKCON has made a significant contribution to the intellectual, cultural, and spiritual life of contemporary man is obvious from the fact that people of all ages and..."

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Gargamuni: A very good article.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: The varṇāśrama-dharma, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, this is plan just to teach the whole society how to perform yajña. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. Therefore this is the beginning of human civilization. Varṇāśrama. How to return back. Just like Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja achieved, obtained, throughout the universe all the property, and he again returned to Vāmana. That was his success of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to teach people how one should voluntarily return the property of the Lord to the Lord. That is called yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So people actually suffering. Not only... This material life means suffering. We may say that we are very happy, but that is not the fact. Tri-tāpa, three kinds of miserable condition of life are there always, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. But we are accustomed to suffering, and we say suffering is happiness. That is called māyā. Actually, material life is... This body, as soon as we get this body, it means suffering.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained. A class of brāhmaṇa must be there as ideal to consult with them. Similarly, a class of kṣatriya must be there, a class of vaiśya must be there. This is called varṇāśrama. For the peaceful execution of material life these things are required, division. Just like in your government you have got some different ministerial department. You have introduced, this minister is for this department, this minister... Similarly, the brain department must be there. Without brain, even... Suppose a madman, he has got his hands and legs, but it is useless because the brain is lost. So brain must be there. So this varṇāśrama, revival of varṇāśrama is required. A class of men, brāhmaṇa—sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: If the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in a person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in śūdra or the śūdra quality found in brāhmaṇa, I mean to say birth, by caste, as it is going on now, so Nārada Muni has said... This is the statement of Nārada Muni, the greatest authority. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible.
Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You have counted? Not yet. Counting? No.

Hari-śauri: I've got it listed. 182. 1-8-2. All their temples should be reorganized on the... People should come there for being educated. Temple means it is an educational center.

Commissioner: Educational center.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better. So similarly... (break) There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body. As soon as he finds a dead body, (growling sound) immediately. And we see, "Oh, how high he has gone." So what is the going up so high if your aim is to find out a dead body? And actually, these aeronautics, they went to very high, suppose they went to moon. But after going there they find, "Where is Moscow? Where is this?" The same vulture business. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only hope to give relief to the human society. So everyone should cooperate with this movement. Unfortunately, there are so many envious persons, they are writing against us, talking against us. They should be envious. Because they want to exploit, keeping the people in ignorance.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: The end is common. And we have found yesterday some of your śiṣyas had come. They're so happy. They said, "This is what the requirement is," and we accept him as a śiṣya.

Prabhupāda: Temple means a center, educational center, education. Give them prasāda. Bring. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Commissioner: And we have centers through Tirupati all over the country in our important centers, we have got some centers.

Prabhupāda: Now the thing is that, say, for Tirupati, it has got biggest income. But I understand that this income is being engaged for industrial purpose. But that, how to utilize in industrial purpose, that you do not know.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Lodi dynasty there were family, Lodi dynasty.

Indian man: Yes, Lodi tomb.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Indian man: All the conferences here are educational.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Built by the Americans?

Indian man: Yes. Behind this is a fruit farmer's lot. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the tomb? Very big.

Harikeśa: I was just thinking that this was really a case of decoration of the dead body.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, see the Taj Mahal. That's thousand times better than this.

Prabhupāda: In the gate it is said that bicycle prohibited. (break) ...tomb was constructed before Taj Mahal. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Saligram Sukla.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America? Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is a learned scholar and he is influential man in educational circles. There are many Indians you'll find, they are...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can mobilise all the Indians, that's the best process.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar if the member... Respectable Indian businessmen they should say that this Kṛṣṇa cult is very, very old, genuine and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud, like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We want to do that.

Prabhupāda: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvāmīs here, influential, that this is genuine. Prove there, that it is genuine movement.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So this is our position. Now you are philosophers. You try to understand the whole philosophy and combine together. People have become all fourth-class, tenth-class, uncivilized men. They should be given the idea of God consciousness. I don't say only in Western country. Everywhere this is the problem, all fourth-class men. So there is possibility to bring the fourth-class men to the first-class. That is educational. It can be done. There is no difficulty. So this is the education, how to make fourth-class men or fifth-class men to come to the first-class standard. What is that?

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: He wrote me a letter. He met one of our travelling parties and he heard that I was here and he was interested to, in our educational program. So I invited him to come here, perhaps to teach Hindi, and so he's here.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, this is some honey, this is from my wife. And this is from Viśakha, Yadubara's wife from Los Angeles. She asked us to... And this is from all the devotees in San Diego, this is ghee.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: Cow ghee?

Devotee: Yes. They heard that you were in need of some ghee, so they have... (indistinct) (pause)

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi conversation) (break)

Guest: (Hindi) ...doctor, high specialist. He's in charge of high department. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ācari prabhu jīveri śikāimu, you cannot teach others if you are not fixed also. Otherwise it will be useless. It is useless, āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikāimu. If you are fixed up in principles, then you can teach others that principle. That will be effective. If you smoke, and if you tell others that "Don't smoke," that is useless. That is useless. (break) ...first of all give up this habits, bad habits then you can teach, it will be effective.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Do you think that is scientific proposal?

Indian man: They say.

Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?

Indian man: Not the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.

Indian man: This is, one part is true knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No, not, suppose self-realization, what I am, is it not?

Indian man: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have given this main point to our lawyers and this is what we are working on.

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian (1): Misunderstood Gītā. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes anti-religion. So the present generation is suffering.

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is change.

Devotee: So Śrīla Prabhupāda is offering the real Indian culture...

Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community... (break)

Prabhupāda: He has allowed us to go to the United... (break) ...assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is...? (end)

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.

Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...

Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)

Rāmeśvara: The fighting will increase this year. It's getting very acute, as you said in that letter.

Prabhupāda: So they are feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: The American people are... They consider it backwards. Prabhupāda: That has to be educated, that backward is real life.

Rāmeśvara: They think they have achieved a higher standard of freedom by traveling all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?

Rāmeśvara: They call themselves educational organizations. They are educating the public because they do speaking engagements at colleges and different places. So on the basis of that, they applied to the federal government, "Please, we are just an educational group. You must give us tax exemption." So they have been given that. Now people can donate money to them. Instead of paying taxes to the U.S. government, they can donate money to them in exchange for paying taxes. (laughs) So the fighting will get more...

Prabhupāda: Intense.

Rāmeśvara: This year, definitely. But that means more propaganda for us, more publicity.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (chuckling)

Rāmeśvara: And I look forward to it, because we'll smash them in each confrontation. They now realize that when they have a debate against us, they always lose. We have had maybe five or six confrontations in Los Angeles on television and on the radio, and every time they lose. And every time they go away like this.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can keep there under the bath section. I'll wash there.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Actually you wrote that, that the educational system simply turns man into a dog going from door to door, begging for some...

Prabhupāda: This is... Why the Indian professors are going outside?

Gargamuni: Brain-drain, they have called.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot get here suitable job.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: "This is a rare opportunity for people and leaders of every country, every race, and every community in the world to know and understand the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should therefore find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, not only in educational and other institutions, but also in every household, and above all, in the hearts and minds of every man and woman."

Prabhupāda: And he is not ordinary man. He is...

Rāmeśvara: No. He is the Deputy of Lok Sabha Secretariat. You should write more... I have to go over this with you to get more descriptions of each place. Central Government.

Gargamuni: I have... Oh, right. I have the full reviews too.

Rāmeśvara: And like if it says Sardar Patel University, where is that?

Gargamuni: In Gujarat.

Rāmeśvara: I just have to add a few things.

Hari-śauri: Will you be going for a walk this morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's quarter to seven. If you want to go now, we could go.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So let us go.

Room Conversation -- February 21, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And the so-called education, they are making devatā demons. We want to check it. The human being, he has got the opportunity. Human being is there to become a devatā. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is there, because he's coming from lower species of life, and they also admit they are coming from monkey. That's all right. But now make him man really. Where is that arrangement? You are keeping him monkey, jumping like monkey. That's all. So your, this so-called educational system, society, is good, or we are making the monkey to become to become devatā, this is good? What they will say? You have come from monkey, and now we are making them devatā. So this is a good process? Or you keep them as monkey, jumping like here and there, that is good? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the way to make a monkey to become a demigod, or devatā. This is the Vedic injunction. "Now you should make him, this monkey, person coming from monkey, or a monkey, make him a devatā." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has simplified: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You become devatā, Bas." What do you want more? Actually that is becoming. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and from monkey you become a devatā, demigod. What do you want, more? Therefore He's mahā-vadānyāvatāra, the most munificent incarnation, making monkey to devatā simply by chanting. See practically. Hm? Anyone protesting against this? (devotees laugh) Here is mother of our Jayapatākā Mahārāja. She is attracted, how the situation is nice. Now she wants to take instruction from her son as mother Devahūti took instructions from her son, Kapiladeva.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got that stage, so you should invite all scholarly people, every Sunday, Saturday, hold meeting, challenge them. In this way. Kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Avicyutaḥ artha. It is the infallible conclusion that your education should be perfected when you can prove through your educational talents that there is God. Then it is... Avicyutaḥ artha. Avicyutaḥ means there is no fallacy—infallible. So that we have to do. Any other scientists joined from India?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: India, not yet.

Prabhupāda: What is their opinion? They are afraid of joining?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will come. Some of them are very favorable.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one doctor who lives on our land. He wants to work with them in proving that God exists. He has his M.V.B. from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia is also purchasing our books. If the scientists do not believe in God, what is the reason?

Dr. Sharma: They just want a valid proof.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First you have to be qualified.

Prabhupāda: This is no plea, that there is checking: because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then they quote Dr. Ambedekhar saying, "We will attain self-elevation only if we learn self-help, regain self-respect, and gain self-knowledge." But what is the self, they don't know.

Prabhupāda: That we can teach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "The surest way for our salvation lies in higher education."

Prabhupāda: So who forbids? Is there any restriction that... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "Here are some measures to be implemented. The caste system should be abolished." They are always trying to abolish the caste system.

Prabhupāda: The caste system... Where is the hindrance in the caste system? If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, you can become a brāhmaṇa. Why it should be abolished?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Incorrect understanding of it should be abolished.

Prabhupāda: "This is the definition of becoming a brāhmaṇa." Give this.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means the rascals, they do not see it, that godlessness, godless education will be like that. The teachers who are suggesting, they are themselves blind, and they are leading. They do not know what is the defect. You can write to them, that "You are leaders, you do not know what is the cause. This is the cause. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Without God consciousness, there cannot be any education. There cannot be any good qualities. You do not know this. Simply you are crying in the wilderness. You yourself do not know. All the education, its propaganda is how to make the world godless, although the most scientific knowledge of God is there in the Bhagavad-gītā." Write him. Give him a slap, that "You do not know." Introduce our Kṛṣṇa consciousness books in the educational department. "Yato mata tato patha. Transcendental meditation. God has given you senses. Why you should not enjoy?" This is his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Electronics complex for women entrepreneurs is being set up in Tamil Nadu."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said the object of the scheme was to attract women entrepreneurs by providing them special...

Prabhupāda: Entrepreneurs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Business people. "Mr. Raja Gopalan said that the scheme would soon be advertised for attracting women by providing them special intrastructural facilities to operate as a closely knit unit."

Prabhupāda: Abortion. What is that abortion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not abortion, but some kind of opportunity for women to do business together.

Prabhupāda: The same, sense enjoyment, maithuna. All these rogues and thieves and bokā.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One lady lives in Vṛndāvana...

Mr. Dwivedi: He has written books also on tantra-śāstra. And I understand most of these ministers, they were going to seek his blessings. I did not know to whom he gave his blessings, but what I know is that most of these people were going to him. I only... One day I asked him. He's very kind towards me, so I go to him and dine with him. So I told him one day, I said, "Mahārāja, you speak to mahatlal (?) people to give some money to our institution." He said, "Mr. Dwivedi, I do not ask any friends or anybody to do anything for me or to anybody." So then I said, "Mahārāja, then I put one question to you if you permit me." He said, "All right, I permit you." So I asked, "Vivekananda has said that 'Service of God... Service of humanity is service of God.' Do you think it is correct or it is incorrect?" He said, "This is correct." Then I said, "We are running educational institution. Whatever good or bad, leave that aside. But in our own little small way we are rendering little service to humanity. And..."

Prabhupāda: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gītā is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?

Mr. Dwivedi: Daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...

Prabhupāda: There is no.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are talking of who requires a guru. Guru is not a fashion. (loud yelling outside) Hm? What is that?

Indian man (2): Shouting by some people.

Indian man (1): I think all the educational institutions are closed for summer vacation. Therefore many students and these people may have come, and they this cause, or something like that. I'm not sure, but that is what I guess.

Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on. So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, (sic:) physists and many other department of... When we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So... Just like now it is being very much advertised that "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogi who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is material. Material things does not require... Maybe a gymnastic, muṣṭika.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Leaders.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Leaders. Governor of the state and Educational Minister. Dr. Sharma told me that he can arrange those things easily.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma is very helpful, and he's very interested in this idea.

Prabhupāda: You are doing nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I wanted to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda... Yesterday I was asking about that title, that "Bhaktivedanta Vijñāna Conference." That doesn't seem to be attractive. It's not...

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So Your Divine Grace has some suggestion?

Prabhupāda: Why not stress that life comes from life, not otherwise?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be the theme: life comes from life. Just like "Scientific Conference on Life Comes From Life"?

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, I think that will be... That will be an interesting title to...

Prabhupāda: That will be nice.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nowadays scientific education, the students in the school...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once it is convinced, then it is convinced forever, on a scientific level.

Prabhupāda: Then there will be question, "If the life is eternal, then whatever we have wrongly taken as life, temporary, that is only waste of thought(?)."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is a corollary. The whole educational system has to be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything they thought, this chemistry and physics, it's going to be all wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they have no alternative.

Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual knowledge.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, how it is possible? You have not, nothing to do with the material nature. You are spirit.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Then you are spirit. How you can say that your life is correct and... It is all wrong.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.

Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I haven't seen what this is yet. It's from Gargamuni Mahārāja. It's "To all India GBC and temple presidents: Dear Mahārājas and Prabhus, please accept my humble obeisances. Enclosed please find our newly established Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge program. This is the beginning of the major big book distribution program in India. Our library party has already received tremendous success in this program, and Śrīla Prabhupāda has greatly encouraged us to sell these all over India. The profit only amounts to Rs. 10 per book, but it will allow everyone to regularly read our books and refer to it as an authentic encyclopedia. Our aim is to replace this encyclopedia against all other encyclopedias, which are meant to take the people to the hellish planets. When our representatives come to your area, please be good enough to assist them in making possible that Śrīla Prabhupāda's books be distributed to leading educational, intellectual persons all over India." Here's what he's published, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's called "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge." I think I should read it to you, because it's got mostly words in it.

Prabhupāda: Read the covering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's pretty much the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Pamphlet.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Vyāsadeva is the basis of all education. " 'Later the saint Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, in commenting upon the life of the great Mahāprabhu Śrī Caitanya, brought to the highest level of understanding these principles in his immortal Indian classic, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It is good fortune of the world that these two spiritual works presented as the Encyclopedia of Indian Culture have been translated and commented upon in the style of a true scholar by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda, out of his obviously great desire to inject the world with his vast storehouse of learning, has translated precisely the rich Sanskrit and Bengali ślokas. He has given the transliteration, word-for-word meaning, purports, and each volume filled with full color illustrations by his disciples. I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all other Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries, and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' "

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one from the Mayor of Bombay, Murali S. Deora. He's the new mayor. " 'The good work of the members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is well known to me. It is especially commendable that the founder-ācārya of the society, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, has been able to convince so many foreigners all about the simple purity of India's exalted philosophy-plain living and high thinking. Swamiji is a very highly respected Vedic scholar, and he has seen to it that his numerous disciples from all over India and the world stick to the actual disciplines required of students of our ancient philosophy. The growing cultural and educational center now under construction at Juhu...' " He refers it as the growing cultural and educational center. He's understood your purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda. " '...is an object of deep interest and pride to myself and all fellow Bombay citizens. The members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness are always well mannered and cheerful due to the blessings of their benign Swamiji. Anyone who reads Śrīla Prabhupāda's clear translations and commentaries of well-known Sanskrit and Bengali literature can understand his secret of success. I do not think such accurate scholarly and clear expositions of Vedic culture can be found in English elsewhere. His Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publishing house has made sure that the immortal words of our classics have been presented in first-class style. Among the BBT publications, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, comprising an encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge, are especially notable. I have examined volumes of these sets and recommend these sets not only for our municipal corporation libraries and municipal-funded libraries, but for all libraries of the world...' "

Prabhupāda: They are approaching municipal libraries?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. " 'But for all libraries of the world, wherever people have a sincere interest to go into the depths of Vedic philosophy.' Signed Murali S. Deora, Mayor of Bombay."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're tremendous. Here is a letter from the member of the advisory board of the Sāhitya Academy. You know what that is Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sāhitya Academy? I think it's a literary academy. " 'No earthly writer today can match the vast outpouring of pure verse which our ancient sages, particularly the great Vyāsadeva, have left to the world. Motivated by a deep desire to give moral, cultural, and educational upliftment to all people irrespective of caste, creed or nationality, they have taught us the higher values of life through the medium of historical narrations, biographies, the lives of great men, and simple instructive stories. The unlimited wealth which they have left behind in the Devanāgarī script is sheer ecstasy to read for the poet, the student and the common man. Since dialectic differences began to splinter men into smaller groups, the original language, Sanskrit, was gradually forgotten. It is special grace upon the denizens of this world today that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done such a tremendous job of meticulously translating into so many languages the sacred books of our heritage. Swamiji's most noteworthy achievement is his Encyclopedia of Vedic Education, the multivolume presentation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta.' " One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this calling it the Encyclopedia of Vedic..., as he's doing...Everyone has always known the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but fewer people knew Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and now these two are lumped together as equally very important works.

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Any educational center interested in giving a complete education to its pupils should follow the example set by the University of California, the British Library, the Oxford University, and the University of Bombay, among many others, who have ordered sets of the BBT's encyclopedia. As an Indian, I am proud of the vast accomplishments of my fellow countryman, Swami Prabhupāda.' "

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe later on I can read some more of these to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are very ecstatic. Yeah. Later on I'll read more to you. We haven't even touched this section. This is the list.

Prabhupāda: So send Gargamuni many thanks for arranging in the libraries. Kṛṣṇa is blessing him. Organize in Bombay office very nicely, and arrange for printing enough stock. All money collected should be invested immediately. This is giving me new life, all these. Somebody is proposing to give us some dairy land? Dairy.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda Mahārāja was saying how last night you were saying that there's nothing nicer and more fortunate than to be the pūjārī of a Deity. (break) We'll just get the sum and substance. He's offering his obeisances to Bhavānanda Mahārāja and the other devotees he met here. He says he's very anxious about your health and progress. He requested me to give him a report. He says as regards to starting of the dispensary and also organizing a health teaching center for educating the boys by the latest audio-visual methods, he said that you seemed to be very earnest about it. In fact, he says that you told him to start as soon as possible. But he wishes to explain some of his difficulties. So Sharma and Jagadīśa, the director of education, and... They they've promised to go through the idea. But he didn't find that Dr. Sharma showed much inclination for this idea. The actual thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we want him to have a dispensary. We're not so much eager for his educational training. Naturally Dr. Sharma was not so enthusiastic.

Prabhupāda: No. Ours is spiritual education, no medical education.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That's the point.

Page Title:Educational (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:14 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=116, Let=0
No. of Quotes:116