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Education (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"coeducation" |"education" |"educational" |"educationally" |"educations" |"educative"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: You have not invented. Some experienced more than yourself, he has done. You have been given the pen to use it for that purpose.

Acyutānanda: Yes. Whenever some scientist does something, the whole nation of that scientist takes the credit. That is another idea. They say, "We made the pen," or something. Everyone in India takes the credit.

Prabhupāda: That is animalism. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. "I belong to some particular body, and he belongs to the same body or same nation. Therefore we become..." Instead of "I," we become "we."

Acyutānanda: Recently there was an atomic scientist whose all major education was in America and Europe, and he won a Nobel Prize award...

Prabhupāda: That is the tendency everywhere. The Britishers.... You go to the Parliament and Westminster Abbey. They have kept all the statues of Sir Isaac Newton and this Churchill, this.... Mean, they want to show that "It is only our nation who has produced all these intelligent persons."

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Why and what to do?"

Prabhupāda: Every paper, there are so many papers. Education so much advanced, and everyone is a criminal. Hmm. Have saṅkīrtana, then lecture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You chant?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money? (break)

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Now, the laws and legislative assembly there are, and there is punishment, there is court—everything there is. That we were discussing last night, that where is the honest men? Why? In spite of laws, legislative assembly, court and everything, the wholesale rogues and dishonest. Then what is the use of this? What is your answer? Why you are checked on the airport just like a culprit, criminal? They cannot trust even a gentleman, although he is educated, may be holding very good office, but still, he is not to be trusted. So this is the result of your so-called function, that there is no honest man throughout the whole world. Then, what is the use of such education? And what is the use of their living? Let them die. No hospital for them.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. What is the use of such education?

Indian man: So your education which you gave may be something like..., not like that.

Prabhupāda: Education means to do the right thing, not the wrong thing. That is education. Education means enlightenment, to know what is right, what is wrong. That is education.

Harikeśa: It's 7:15 Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: It's 7:15.

Prabhupāda: On the street there is sign board, "Keep to the left," or "Keep to the right." This is education. This is education. One must know how to run the car which side. Education means enlightenment. If you foolishly do something, immediately you become criminal. So education means to enlighten them to know what is right, what is wrong. That is education. But people do not know that. What is the meaning of education? (break)

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Vasughosa: And they even have sex education in school. They are teaching people how to be rogues.

Prabhupāda: Our education is first of all to become brahmacārī, and the modern education is how to become vyabhicārī, this rascal education. And for this purpose there are big, big universities, vice chancellor, and so on, so on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now everything is so degraded that in American universities they have coeducational toilets.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they are becoming animals, or they are already animals.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, temples. And "He is the ācārya of the present Gauḍīya-sampradāya."

Bhavānanda: If we simply state the facts, there is no need for us to subtly infer or to exaggerate because your activities are so glorious that...

Prabhupāda: And invite anyone who is interested to become devotee. We shall provide place, food, education to the children. In this way make another statement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just wondering... I was thinking whether we...

Prabhupāda: Without touching them.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all moving around the polestar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: So that means that the more we learn material education, (we're) just becoming more and more foolish.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material education means mūḍha. This is also material education, the movement of the sun. But they are not perfect.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if the earth is moving so fast, why isn't everything blown off?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhavānanda: Why are we not blown off the surface of this planet? Now it's moving so fast. How are we able to remain here and not be blown off?

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.

Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?

Indian man (1): Six-thirty.

Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 5, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: All right. Let them send. (break) ...is compared with a rose flower without flavor. Man with education is compared with the koi. (cuckoo bird) Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The bird, koi, is very black, but his sound, sweet, so sweet, everyone likes. Kokilānām svaro-rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam, nārī-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ. And woman's beauty is how she is chaste and devoted to the husband. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā-rūpaṁ ku-rūpanam. And education is the beauty for the brain. And the beauty of the koi is her sweet voice. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinaḥ. And those who are saintly person, they should be simply forgiving. That is their beauty.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So (Hindi or Bengali) śūdra-paricaryātmākaṁ kāryam. They should be engaged in serving. But sva-karmana tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Everyone should be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is perfection.

Devotee (1): Abhyāse samārtho 'si mat-karma-paramo bhava. So...

Prabhupāda: Ah. Mat karma paramo... We have got service for everyone. (Bengali) The modern civilization is everyone is sent for academic education. That is mistake, waste of time.

Devotee (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (end)

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone has to work very hard, pass examination, and then he becomes an educated man. Where is by chance one has become learned?

Pañca-draviḍa: What about two people born in the same circumstance? Each has equal education and equal background, but one becomes rich and one remains poor. That's chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is the instruction in the Bhāgavatam. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. There are two things—happiness and distress—and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): That's a great mercy for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mercy. When they excuse a saintly person, that is, that is their great mercy. Now, according to Vedic law, a saintly person is never subjected to any law. He's paramahaṁsa. He's never.... Rather, the order is he must be given all help that he wants. That is the Vedic civilization. And brahmacārī, sannyāsīs, they should be treated as children at home, so that wherever they go, they will be treated just like children: "Oh, he's my son. He's my dependent." They will treat like that. And they also go to every home: "Mother, give me some food." So he's children, as the child asks from the mother, "Give me some food." This is system. This is civilization. And M.A., Ph.D., and searching after woman, how to induce her, and being searched out in the airport, whether he's a rogue—what is this education? We don't want this education. (break) ...student life we have seen practically, one big professor, Dr. Brajendranatha Śrī. So he had another Ph.D. student, and that student kidnapped his daughter and went away. He was so educated that kidnapped his teacher's or the master's daughter and went away. . What is that word? Kāmātura.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): Kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka-bhayaiṣaṇārtam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is kāmāturam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, millions of years ago, a five-years-old boy, he's stating what is the position of the materialistic person. This is Bhāgavata. (break) ...education system should be stopped, rascal, producing rascals and hippies in the university. What is the use of this education? Atheists, putting simply theories, and that is also nonsense, and it is going on in the name of education. (break)...Paṇḍita says.... Who is paṇḍita? Recite.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. The.... Is.... It is moral instruction, what to speak of high education. Means it, preliminary moral education.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Trivikrama: Even abortion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is going on as education, as saintly person, priest. These things are going on in the name of religion, in the name of education. How much fallen this world is, just try to understand. As soon as they are caught up, they'll defend only by arguments, counter-arguments.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, the education is to teach the students how to find out on their own. They say if you take authority from somebody else, it just stifles their growth, and that is not actually knowledge, that is not learning. But you encourage them or give them the facility...

Prabhupāda: But why the rascal is called to the school? He may learn at home.

Devotee (2): Well, they want to condition them...

Prabhupāda: What?

Devotee (2): ...with various values.

Prabhupāda: What is the value? If you are calling him to take education from the school, that means he is accepting authority. Let him be educated at home. Why the college?

Devotee: But in the classrooms, they simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, first of all, the principle? What is this principle?

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: To train him in the methods of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means authority. You are teaching him to accept the authority. And you are teaching against authority. Everything contradictory. One side, contraceptive; one side, illicit sex. And the.... But Vedic civilization says, "All right, as soon as woman is widow, let her remain as a saintly woman—no more sex." But "No, you can marry and you can have sex hundred times daily, but use contraceptive." Is that civilization? To train one woman not to have any more sex, this is also contraceptive. And another way that "You can have sex any amount, as many times as you like. Take this contraceptive." Whose civilization better? And you call him to be trained up to accept authority and teach him, "Don't accept any authority." Is that education? Nonsense.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, they.... So, so they're standing—no customer at two o'clock. It is very cold. So Vidyasagara will take compassion: "All right, you take two rupees. Go home. Sleep." And that is in Vidyasagara's life, compassionate to the prostitute. By giving her two rupees, will she change her profession? But this learned man, he thought like that, that "She is standing in the severe cold. All right, let me.... Let me.... Let me give her two rupees. Then go home. Don't take so much..." He's Vidyasagara. The vidyā-sāgara means "ocean of education." And Haridāsa Ṭhākura—a prostitute came for three nights and converted her to a devotee. That's it. That is real compassion, not that "Take two rupees and go home." No. Turn her. That is real compassion, to turn everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the greatest welfare activity in the world. Otherwise there cannot be any peace or prosperity.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are knowing that we are so sinful and we're so rascals, but having the opportunity of association of pure devotee and Kṛṣṇa, that's also mercy...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Because we can see that we are..., our hearts are not clean, and we are constantly thinking of māyā...

Prabhupāda: Education, education.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is mercy. This is greatest mercy.

Prabhupāda: Just like you are being educated. Not that cent percent mark you are getting, but because you are trying to be educated, so that is also good. That is also good.

Devotee(1): Therefore the association is most important.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very important, so that if I commit some mistake, I'll regret: "Oh, my other associate, he is not coming to act in that..." That chance he'll get.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What is learned? What is learned? A child, does he require learning. When the father says, "You do it," does it require any university education?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: "He is my father." That's all.

Guru dāsa: Nara-priya(?) do not know śāstras. They know unalloyed devotion.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the nature. A child generally abides by the order of the parent. They are playing. The parent says, "Don't do it! Sit down!" Immediately sit down. That is the nature. So why don't you break your nature, that "My duty is to carry out the order of the supreme father?" Then you are safe.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You can ask them. I do not know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All classes. Many educated people as well as people from all different classes, all racial backgrounds.

Prabhupāda: No, no, in America who is uneducated?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, all coming from very nice families, the majority, education. Many, many of them coming from very wealthy families.

Prabhupāda: Now, if you should take good family means wealthy family, then America, there is no poor family. There is no question of poverty. So how do you distinguish that he's coming from good family, he's coming from bad family? Poverty is unknown to them. Nobody is uneducated. Then how you distinguish who is bad and who is good? Everyone is good—unless he voluntarily becomes bad, hippie. Otherwise everyone is coming from very good family, rich family, educated family.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they like.

Reporter (2): Does that mean, Swamiji, that yours is a cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Hṛdayānanda: A cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cultural movement, educational movement. It is not so-called religious movement. Religious movement is sentiment. Generally religion is taken as a kind of faith, but it is not a kind of faith. In.... I think, in South America that Indian man was asking that "It is the Hindu faith?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."

Prabhupāda: So just see. He was Hindu gentleman, belonging to the Arya-samaj. So three times he said, "Is it Hindu faith?" And what do you mean by Hindu faith? When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), is it meant for the Hindus that a child becomes..., a baby becomes a child, a child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, a young man becomes an old man, and the old man dies, changes this body? Is it meant for the Hindus? The Mohammedans do not become old men or young men?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): The house is there, under the trees.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) You have got this card.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries they would call this primitive.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: After matriculation they go to the office.

Prabhupāda: No matriculation. They engage good paṇḍitas, good teachers, and teach them at home, and, as soon as they are able to read and write and see accounts, immediately engage in the business. They know that "We can purchase technologist. Why shall I waste time for so-called education, Ph.D., D.A.C.?" You have seen that Ph.D. in our Vṛndāvana? Useless. So many Ph.D.'s are useless. Cannot earn their livelihood. I have seen. So what is the use? Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Because one has become.... I have seen one Ph.D. chemist in Allahabad. He could not get any job. Then he was manufacturing soap at home and taking it in cycle and going to the market just like ordinary coolie. These so-called educationists, unless they get a good job, they are useless street dog. Useless. They cannot earn even livelihood. Therefore śāstra says, "Don't try for these things, to increase your economic position. This is already destined. You cannot increase or decrease. Whatever you are destined, you must get it. Try to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He is employing something like fifty thousand people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Mr. Modi near Delhi.

Dr. Patel: Modinagarawala.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is employing fifty thousand people, without any education.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We had a very big program in Modinagara.

Prabhupāda: His wife received us very nicely.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all begin. Then we shall think of old. But.... At least when he is older, he will not become a nonsense. That.... We want to save him from becoming a nonsense. That is our duty. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. When the brahmacārī is residing in gurukula, he must be trained up how to control senses. That is the first education. People are spoiled because they are not trained up to become controller. That is the defect of the modern age. And when one is unable to control senses, he will do all nonsense.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The.... Our movement is an educative movement to understand the real position of living condition, and then we act. Just like if you know your real position, then, if you act intelligently, then it is nice. If you do not know what is your position, what is the use of your education and acting? You do not know your real position. That is ignorance. And that is dog mentality. The dog cannot understand that he is not body; he is something else. But human intelligence is advanced. If they do not try to understand this fact, then what is the difference between him and dog?

Mike Barron: None.

Prabhupāda: That is being misused. There is no institution, no university, no education system, to understand what is that living force, without which it is a lump of matter. Where is that education?

Mike Barron: What do you call that force?

Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that, that this is my mission, to educate people to understand himself. They are under this misconception that "Every one of us, we are this body." That is misconception. You must know who is within the body. That is real education.

Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...

Prabhupāda: Well...

Mike Barron: ...until you die.

Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Their dullness. They are not being educated, but they are putting into the darkness of ignorance more and more. That is going on in the name of education.

Mike Barron: But some people are confused by the number of false gurus.

Prabhupāda: So why you bring guru? You try to understand yourself. If you are fool, then what guru will do?

Mike Barron: But there are people...

Prabhupāda: You should be intelligent. You should know that what is the subject matter of knowledge. Why do you accept so many fools and rascals as guru? First of all you know what is the subject matter of knowledge. Just like if you want to become a carpenter, you should go to an expert carpenter. If you want to be a medical man, here, if you want to become medical man, you must approach the medical college. So first of all, what do you want? You do not know what you want. Therefore you get so many cheaters. You do not know what you want.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That "probably" again. That is not possible.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You do not know. That is I say. Therefore I say you cannot do it. You do not know it. You cannot manufacture even a small germ, what to speak of pilot. That is the problem. The modern education is they do not know it. "Perhaps," "maybe," this is not scientific proposal.

Guru-kṛpā: Perhaps they can keep you young.

Carol Jarvis: That's just what I was going to say. Perhaps they can build something without giving him...

Prabhupāda: Who is.... Who is...

Carol Jarvis: ...giving him command, a free mind.

Prabhupāda: So suppose if you say, "Perhaps I'll be able to keep my young age continually," is it possible?

Carol Jarvis: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Then? You don't know. Then learn it. It is not possible. You must become an old lady. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The activities inside.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is the activity which concerns. In the university there is only activity of education, learning. And here, all the criminals are violating the laws, they are put together. But superficially they look the same room, same food, same office, same typewriter. So it is the question of understanding why it is called criminal department and why it is called university. So as soon as it is university department, that is good. The same building, the same dictaphone, the same typewriter, same table, same chair, when they are used for Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The same money, everything, it looks like that. Therefore they cannot understand. The nirviśeṣavādī and the śūnyavādī, they: "Spiritual means these things should be zero." They say it should be zero.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). These things are discussed there.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Mr. Dixon: Yes. I am thinking more in terms of our general education system, for example.

Prabhupāda: This is the best education. Our education begins when we learn to see all women as mother. That is the beginning of education.

Mr. Dixon: When we learn...

Prabhupāda: It doesn't require Ph.D. degrees to train him in such a way that a person will see, except his married wife, all women as mother.

Mr. Dixon: Women as?

Prabhupāda: All women.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Mother. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. This is the original system of education in India, mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, to think of all women except his own wife as mother. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: "Others' money as the garbage in the street." Nobody touches the garbage. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu: "And one who sees all other living entities on the level of himself..." If you feel pinching, why should you pinch others? If one learns these three things, he is paṇḍita, he is learned. And another three things,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

When you accept Kṛṣṇa, or God.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa means God. God is the proprietor of everything. Just take for example the United Nation. They are going and making noise, full speeches, for the last fifty years, but the fighting is going on. But they do not.... Why do they not pass a resolution that "This earth planet..." Take.... Only take this earth planet, earthly planet. Other you leave aside. "This is the property of God, and we are all sons of God. Let us enjoy the property of the..." But you will not allow. You Australian, you have got so much land. You won't allow anybody to come because you think it is your land.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: That I could not follow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question is: "Are you concerned with the increasing number of gurus and swamis around the world?"

Prabhupāda: No. We are concerned that in spite of so-called education and advancement of civilization, people have been kept in darkness about real knowledge. So it is our little attempt to awaken them to the real platform of knowledge.

Interviewer: Well, what do you hope to achieve by your short visit here to New Zealand, where you don't have a very big following at all?

Prabhupāda: Just to encourage my disciples. They're also trying their best to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if I occasionally visit, they become encouraged. That's why.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. So because he accepted discipleship, so He immediately chastised him that "You rascal, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are on the platform of bodily conception of life, the platform of the animals." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who accepts this body as self, he's animal. He's not even a human being. So the whole world is on this bodily concept of life. That is going on. "American," "European," "Hindu," "Muslim," "black," "white," this, that. They do not know what is education. That is the first education, that "You rascal, you are not this body. You are within the body." So who understands this? And they're declaring that "We are student of Bhagavad-gītā. We have studied Bhagavad-gītā." Hmm? Even Gandhi, he takes photograph with Bhagavad-gītā, but his fighting is for nationalism. The others are doing that. So what is the use of taking Bhagavad-gītā? The Pakistanis are also doing that. But you have taken Bhagavad-gītā, you are doing the same work. So what is your credit? This is going on. So nobody is learning Bhagavad-gītā. It is first time that we are teaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Otherwise, everyone is misled. The subject matter is that the soul is different from this body.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, "Sex life which is not against religious principles, I am that." Not that sex life, as soon as you like, sex. That is not gṛhastha. That is gṛhamedhī. Dharmāviruddha. Dharma-aviruddha means simply for begetting nice child you can have..., not for enjoyment. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. This is Vedic principle. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. A bhāryā, wife, is accepted only for having son. Not for any other purpose. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This is material side, but still, it is religious. First education is brahmacārī, how to train him to avoid sex life. And still if he's not able, then he is allowed to become a gṛhastha, a little concession. Otherwise, the whole Vedic civilization is: how to avoid sex life. Brahmacārī—no sex life. Vānaprastha—no sex life. Sannyāsa—no sex life. Only gṛhastha, under control. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhastha does not mean one who is doing everything whimsically on account of getting this concession. He's not gṛhastha, he's gṛhamedhī. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam... (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī means he does not know what is spiritual life. That is gṛhamedhī. And gṛhastha means he knows what is spiritual life, and he lives on that status. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhamedhī's definition is.... Everything is there in the śāstra. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. They do not know what is the aim of life. It is like something, something like cats and dogs. They do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). (break) So he'll speak to you. You know English, you can read books.

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: (tape very distorted) They are not beggar. But Kṛṣṇa has assured, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahām... Why they should go to beg? That this is only a process to approach them. If you approach any gentleman as beggar, he'll give you, at least in India. Not.... Just to enlighten, give them education. (break) He's thinking, "This is life." And the sannyāsī's duty is: "No, not this is life. You are in darkness, mūḍha." That is sannyāsī's business: to enlighten. (break) ...everything, and only for understanding future, they'll be left on the hand of the nature. Is that very good proposal? Hmm? No. There must be.

Indian man: But they have process. They earn wealth. That's all. And no future for the child, they don't...

Prabhupāda: Because they have no education. The guru's duty is to give them education; the sannyāsī's duty is to give.... They do not give. They say, "Yes, you are all right. Give me some money." That's all. That they go: "I am avatāra, I am this, I am that," that's all. And he is.... He return (indistinct) to darkness. That's all. (break) ...they used to discover, whole method is finished.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father has been giving us.... Of course, it was.... We have been approaching him through the aspect of doing business in China. His father is encouraging us in the sense that he is seeing Dhṛṣṭadyumna.... Like whenever we visit him, we come in our suits, and his father is seeing that.... He is encouraging him also because he's taking some, what he calls a very, what would you say, a responsible position, attempting to do some business. So he's been giving us letters on his company's letterhead. Just like this is a letter to the director of the Department of Commerce of the United States. We've seen a number of people. We've been visiting different directors. First thing we did when we went back is after meeting him, we got many books on China. Some of the examples are, just like this.... We read about twenty-five books. We've studied up very thoroughly and researched everything about China. Here is a book, The Religious Policy and Practice in Communist China. It describes everything about religion there. So we thoroughly read this book. Then there's other books, books on education, we read books on history...

Prabhupāda: Chinese people, they are trying to raise their standard of civilization. Do they?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many.... Their philosophy is called dialectic materialism. They want to advance materially and they.... We have prepared one report of an interview with the president of a committee on United States and China relations. He's one of the leading experts in China. So after researching and studying all the educational, the libraries, all the different functions in China, we went and spoke with this gentleman.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say that the system encourages man's greed, whereas their system...

Prabhupāda: No, no, system.... If the.... You cannot change the mind. If you have got mind to enjoy more, by force if I try to force you not to enjoy more, give to the state, this is a struggle. This is not perfect process.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that will be corrected by education.

Prabhupāda: Education.... That means what is that education?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the.... They don't.... Of course, we say education means Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education means they must learn to sacrifice everything for the topmost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say the topmost is the general mass of everyone, the proletariat, all people combined.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, general. But you know how to make general mass of people happy. That example we give, that the whole body.... You can make the whole body happy simply by supplying food to the stomach. That is the best way. And if you want to make happy every part of the body, individual, that will never be successful.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like a child had..., has faith in his parents. So that is not an artificial thing, that is fact. And parents are trustworthy to the child. There is no doubt of..., by nature. So, similarly, why could..., you should be in trust in God? Why blindly? Why not trust with knowledge? And that is our movement. Every civilized person has got some faith in God. But now, they're advanced, they should understand what is God, why you must have faith in Him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Reporter: It's a matter of education...

Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? They must know God scientifically.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Do you have programs developed to educate mankind towards this God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Concrete education. Not fictitious. Concrete.

Reporter: How will you.... How would you get man to become aware of the situation so he could desire, even desire unconsciously?

Prabhupāda: There is a very simply fact. It you simply understand that one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, there it is stated that

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

Very simply thing. Just like the art of the material nature. Everything is coming out of the material nature, beginning from the grass to the highest intellectual human being or more than that. Wherefrom they are coming? From this material nature: ether, earth, water, fire. This element, some material nature. Let us see from the ground, the grass is coming, the vegetable is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, all the ants are coming, the germs are coming. Then, after eating that vegetable, the animals are coming. In this way everything is coming, generated from the earth, from the material nature. Is it not a fact?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, there must be father. This is conclusion. So who is sanctioning about the father? The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am father." You cannot denying father; that is not possible. If there is mother, if there is child, there must be father. This is human sense. And animal sense is: "I don't care for father. There may be father, may not be..." That is animal sense. So do you want to keep the human society in such ignorance just like cats and dogs? The dogs do not care who is father. This movement wants to give education to the human society: "Yes, there is father." And that is actual fact. Without father how there is child? Is it possible? Then? For at the present moment, the human society is child playing on the lap of mother, that's all. In big, big motorcars, that's all. Without any knowledge of father. But will the human being remain simply satisfied with toys on the lap of mother, or you'll try to understand who is father? So we are satisfied with the toys, and playing on the lap of the mother. The motorcar is running very swiftly, head-break or neck-break speed, and they are thinking they are civilized, advanced. What is.... "Who is your father?" "Don't know."

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Devotee (1): You asked earlier about our program for educating society, are you still interested in this?

Prabhupāda: This education is all explained.

Devotee (2): I think he was interested also techniques by which we go about educating society. We have some techniques which...

Prabhupāda: Technical knowledge is not education.

Devotee (2): No, but I mean, as far as our books are.... We have our techniques for educating society.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Rāmeśvara: Our program is to distribute the books of the Vedas with our spiritual master's philosophical commentaries. We already discussed a little bit before we came.

Prabhupāda: And all this subject matter, everything, sixty-two books already.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means āśraya. If one takes shelter of the supreme powerful, he also becomes powerful. The example is given, the small fish, it has no power, but because he has taken shelter of the water, it can go against big waves, whereas a big elephant, he'll be washed away, because he has not taken shelter. He has not taken shelter of the water. He is, on the land he is very powerful, but in the water he has no power. So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished. You cannot do anything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha:

tat-prayāso na kartavyo
yata āyur-vyayaḥ param
na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ
mukunda-caraṇāmbujam

"Endeavors merely for sense gratification or material happiness through economic development are not to be performed, for they result only in a loss of time and energy, with no actual profit. If one's endeavors are directed toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can surely attain the spiritual platform of self-realization. There is no such benefit from engaging oneself in economic development."

Prabhupāda: Yes, now just see how people are being misguided. Throughout the whole world, the education is for economic development. And here it is condemned that one should not waste his time for so-called economic development. Now our preaching is here, and who will accept it? They'll call us all crazy fellows. We are thinking they are crazy, they're wasting time for economic development, and they are thinking of us, that "These people are crazy, they are doing nothing, escaping." Escaping, do they not say like that?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. We are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. We are following the instruction. There is no need of economic development. Live nature's life. Just like other animals, they have no question of economic development. They do not think of economic development. But still they are having the material facilities-eating, sleeping, sex and defense—there is. But there is no endeavor for economic development. So man, being advanced, why he should be less than the animals? His real business is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not economic development. That is condemned here. Dr. Wolfe will not agree with us. (laughs) All right, read the purport.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "We see materialistic persons busily engaged in economic development all day and all night, trying to increase their material opulence, but even if we suppose that they get some benefit from such endeavors, that does not solve the real problem of their lives. Nor do they know what the real problem of life is. This is due to a lack of spiritual education. Especially in the present age, every man is in darkness, in the bodily conception of life, not knowing anything of the spirit soul and its needs. Misguided by the blind leaders of society, people consider the body to be everything, and they are engaged in trying to keep the body materially comfortable. Such a civilization is condemned because it does not lead humanity toward knowing the real goal of life. People are simply wasting time and the valuable gift of the human form, because a human being who does not cultivate spiritual life but dies like the cats and dogs is degraded in his next life. From human life, such a person is put into the cycle of continuous birth and death. Thus one loses the true benefit of human life, which is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and solve life's problems."

Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point amongst yourselves whether it is rightly said or wrong. If anyone has any objection.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Modern education, they cannot understand that this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease is a botheration. They do not understand that. Why they accept it? Accept it, they think there is no other way. But if there is a way to stop this, why do they not take it? Hm? What is the value of this education? They cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Nobody likes death, but death is there. Nobody likes to become old, but the old age is there. Why they set aside these big problems and he's proud of scientific advancement of knowledge? What kind of education this is? If they cannot distinguish between right and wrong, then what is the result of this education? Education means one must be able to distinguish between the right and wrong. But they cannot, or even they do know that death is not good, but why they are not trying how to stop death? Where is the advancement? They are very much proud of advancement of science. Where is the advancement? You cannot stop death. You cannot stop old age. You can manufacture advanced medicine, but why don't you stop disease? Take this pill, there will be no more disease. Where is that science?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is here in America.

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Na tathā vindate kṣemaṁ mukunda-caraṇāmbujam.

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is very difficult to understand for the demonic. Prahlāda Mahārāja was instructing among the demons. So for them it was difficult. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja was trying. The purport is read, this verse?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes. You say that the problem is that there's a lack of spiritual education in their lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect always, especially in this age. There is no spiritual education. Hm? Do you think, Dr. Wolfe, there is spiritual education? Is there any in the school, colleges, universities?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying if there's any real spiritual education in the colleges and schools.

Dr. Wolfe: To produce new sense-gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Ne te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. They don't know.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
(SB 7.5.31)

They do not know what is the aim of life. Therefore there is no spiritual education. They do not know. Read further. You shall always hold classes. Read these books, discuss, try to understand. Then time will be properly utilized. Don't talk useless things. Some engagement. So long as you are engaged in the service of the Deity, that is very good. Otherwise, you should hold class, read these books, discuss amongst them. Then the proper utilization of time. Avyartha-kālatvam (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). Advancement of devotional service means always be alert whether a moment is misused.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education. What do you think?

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I always thought, I always thought: "Later, later, I will. Later, later." But now I'm sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, education, everywhere, all over the world, education is given when one is young. That is the time. I think here in America there is adult education?

Hṛdayānanda: But not so much. Some. That's usually for making more money. Someone has a job and he wants further training to get a higher-paying job, but not so much for knowledge.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: For a common man it is little difficult, but it is very easy. We are talking of the spiritual platform, but common man does not understand what is spiritual, although it is very easy. My body, your body, is moving on account of spiritual spark. That's a fact; everyone can see. As soon as the spiritual spark, soul, is off, the body, it is simply lump of matter. That is a fact; everyone can see. But still they are not serious to understand what is that spiritual spark. There is no education. Mostly they are thinking there is no spiritual spark, the body is moving.... How it is moving? What is their explanation?

Rāmeśvara: Chemical combination and reaction.

Prabhupāda: But that, they cannot do it. They cannot make any dull matter moving by chemical combination. Although they cannot do it, still they talk of it. That is another foolishness. We say that you.... Egg, everyone can see some white matter, some yellow matter, and some covering, plasticlike. So a chemical, mostly chemicals are white.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Interested or not interested. Child is not interested for education. But it is the duty of the father to make him educated, sometimes punish him. So a child may be foolish, but how the parents can be foolish? It is not that because the human society is not interested, this should be stopped.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is his blessing. He wanted; I tried. That's all. Whatever is being done, it is by his desire. Vaiṣṇava sata saṅkalpa.(?) Whatever he desires, that is to be fulfilled. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Therefore, full faith in guru, that is the prime factor of success. Not any other things, no qualifications, no education, only strong faith in guru. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. This is the secret. So whatever little success is there, that was only this qualification, that I wanted to serve him. That's all. Otherwise, there was no business of coming here at the age of seventy years.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: First of all, let us understand the importance of that living force. Then we shall find out means how to keep it fit. People are not aware of this living force. They accept this dead body as important. That is material civilization. They are taking care of the body but not the living force which is making this body important.

Richard: And you think that is a problem with...?

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Education means to understand that, what is the important thing within this body. Otherwise, cats and dogs, they are also working with the bodily concept of life. The dog is jumping, barking. He's thinking, "I'm dog, I'm this body."

Richard: Okay, as far as nurturing the body through knowledge, is the goal of what you teach to eliminate obstacles in...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are writing so many books to give them enlightenment. This is the process. It is an educational movement, how to overcome these obstacles. That is the sum and substance.

Richard: Do you think there are any other ways which are equally effective?

Prabhupāda: No.

Richard: Isn't the spiritual benefit that people in the āśrama here get...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must know what is spirit. They do not know even what is spirit.

Richard: Well, okay, there are many contented people in the world, there are many people who are at peace with themselves...

Prabhupāda: Contented-ass is contented. He has no problem. The best-contented living being is an ass. He has no complaint. So that is not civilization.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like this university, they are serious for education, and they are ordering our books. Others may not order; they are not reading. That means they are not serious.

Richard: Only the people who are...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge is for the intelligent class of men.

Richard: But there are many types of knowledge, and there are many ranges, depths of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So many types, this is also one type of knowledge.

Richard: Right, it is not the only type, that's what I'm...

Prabhupāda: No, there are different aims also. If you are interested to become an expert medical man, then the knowledge is different. If you want to become an engineer, the knowledge is different. Similarly, if he wants to overcome all the obstacles, then this is the education.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Other..., you become interested in medical, you become a medical man, you become an engineer, you become other.... You take that education. But one who is interested to stop all obstacles of life, this is the only education.

Richard: This is the only one.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard: Have you studied other religions?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore I'm saying. Without studying, how can I say? I am challenging, not saying. We are challenging. We are not saying only.

Richard: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: If you want to overcome all obstacles of life, this is the only education. That's all. Or if you have different aims of life, there are different departments of knowledge. But if you want this knowledge, then this is the education.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: But do you think they are successful?

Prabhupāda: They are successful if they follow the education. Just like Christ, he's speaking of kingdom of God. So if you follow Christ, there is hope that you go to kingdom of God. But if you don't follow, you simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," then it is useless.

Richard: But there are other...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are of the same type.

Richard: Yes, but do they have any value as far as you are concerned?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have value.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Physically alive.

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Richard: I think it requires more than education; it requires faith.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is black and we worship Him. (laughter) You have seen our Deity? Yes. Kṛṣṇa is from your community. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of black and white. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is above the skin—the soul which is there. Either he's black or white or yellow, it doesn't matter. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is the first education, that do not take the body, but the living force within the body. That is important; we have to understand that. We are talking from that platform. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult, because people are very much absorbed with bodily concept of life. But our philosophy begins from that platform where there is no more bodily concept of life. Therefore it is little difficult. (pause) So any question also?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. In Boston there has been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other.

Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance. They do not know what is what. They are reading so many philosophical speculation, horrible condition of the so-called philosopher, scientist. Simply "I believe," "In this believe, that believe." You believe.... Believe something. That is your (indistinct). But your belief is not final. That is creating chaotic condition. You believe some way, I believe something, he believes something. What is the profit? Chaos. So all these philosophers, scientists, they believe "I believe," as if his belief will be a doctrine. Why he believes like that? People also accept like that. Nobody questions that a person says "I believe," that means he is not in perfect knowledge. But in Vedic śāstra, there is no question of belief. This is the fact.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Boston is nice place for the Institute.

Śrutikīrti: Best place for it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's the educational center of America.

Ambarīṣa: Academic center of the United States. So now we are fixing up the temple very nicely. We've spent about fifty thousand dollars putting in all new tile floor and a beautiful new onyx altar. Very, very gorgeous.

Prabhupāda: So it is framework or solid building?

Ambarīṣa: The building? It's stone, brownstone.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then it's nice.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Stansky: I want very much to learn basic Sanskrit, but I have so much to learn right now that ah,...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not necessary, but those who are interested in studying Sanskrit literature, for them it is very good help. And at the same time they get sublime knowledge. They study Sanskrit and get knowledge. So you have kindly come to join us. You study our philosophy very minutely and then try to do something for the suffering humanity.

nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau
lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau
rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau
vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau

The saintly persons, at least in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, they are not meant for idle life. They are always busy for the welfare of the whole human society. This is the sign of saintly person. They are misguided and they are suffering, and it is the duty of the saintly person to give them instruction, education, how they can become really happy and make their life successful. This is saintly person. A saintly person doesn't mean to live at other's expenditure and do all nonsense things. This is not saintly person. Hm. (Hindi) (break) You asked me some question?

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: But material, that is temporary. This body, your body, my body, anyone's body, that is temporary. It will not stay. It has taken birth at a certain date, it will endure for certain years, and then it will be finished. But the spirit, that will continue. It will accept another body. Just like we are accepting, we are giving up our body, childhood body, accepting the body of a boy, then giving up the boyhood body, accepting the body of a young man. Similarly, this body.... Just like I am an old man. This will be finished, and I will accept another body. So the spirit soul is eternal, and the body is temporary. So we are taking care of the body very much. That is also required. But what about the spirit soul? This education is lacking.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone's body is temporary, either human body or cat's body, dog's body. But the human body is important because in the human body we have developed consciousness by which we can understand what is God. The cats and dogs, they cannot, they haven't got that developed consciousness. Therefore if we do not use this developed consciousness for understanding God and our relationship with Him, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot be educated about God, but a human being can be educated. That is the distinction between animals and man. But modern education is keeping them in ignorance about God, so they are no better than cats and dogs. And how can you bring peace among cats and dogs? Can you bring in peace calling all the dogs of your city and sit down peacefully? No, that is not possible. So if we keep our citizens like cats and dogs, then how we can expect peace?

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra.... Dhīras tatra, dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?

Hari-śauri: Sober.

Satsvarūpa: Learned.

Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?

Kern: So this is a development. Saint Ignatius did the same, somewhat. When he began, he sought the leadership. And he sought the intelligent, so that they might do what.... Obviously, you do it also, seeking the leadership that can then teach. We call it sometimes elitism, and this is perhaps a good word for it.

Prabhupāda: So you find out the verse, satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣā, the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Here, it is meant, the first class, second class, third class, fourth class.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: I don't say monastery. I'm speaking that this is the way of training. Even a third-class born or fourth-class born could become a first-class man. This training should be given. There must be an institution how to become peaceful, how to become truthful, how to become honest, how to become religious, how to become believer in God. Why not this institution? They have opened institutions how to learn to deal the hammer, technology. But if, in the society, there is no first-class man on this basis, then who will guide? If there is no brain, then who will guide the hand or the leg?

Scheverman: So your particular plan is then to provide this kind of enlightenment, this kind of direction and education, through the ascetical process in which your group is involved. Yes. We, of course, have made efforts along this line through our schools and through our religious communities that have been successful more or less depending on efforts given to it.

Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Where is that independence? With his family he can come and take food. What is wrong there? We say that we should not..., we are not simply supplying food. Anyone who is coming, he is getting spiritual education. Not that it is a free hotel. No. It is not that. We give them spiritual education. You come here, you take your shelter, you take your food and learn how to be first-class man. That is our program. Don't be implicated in sinful activities. Be God conscious and live here with us comfortably, take your food. We have got this nice palace.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No, for the time being. (laughs) We have no means. Suppose.... Second class means he must be courageous to fight. So I have no means how to train them, you see? And without training, the second class, if you send him to the war, the experience is they will flee away. The many enemies coming, and they are going away.

Scheverman: Are you training people to become teachers in this school, this process of education?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you become. Without being first-class man, you cannot teach. A second-class, third-class, fourth-class man is not meant for teaching.

Scheverman: Where would you do this teaching?

Prabhupāda: Teaching everywhere, wherever there is possibility.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Well, there are ways in which we might work together and cooperate.

Prabhupāda: Just like a school. A school is open for everyone. Whoever wants to take up education, he can come.

Scheverman: I can understand that very well, because I have been a teacher for many years, and also the principal of the school, and can understand your educational concepts and the importance of them. You cannot operate a school without discipline, without training. People cannot use their brains useless they are in order.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be proper training.

Kern: God consciousness..., would you explain something of the religious experience of God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, God consciousness is the highest level. It is not possible for everyone. But in whatever platform he is, if there is cooperation with God consciousness movement, then he gets the result. Just like in this body.... Same example: leg's duty is different and brain duty is different, hand's duty is different, belly's duty different, but when there is cooperation, all the parts of the body derive the same benefit.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: It's a kind of education. So to get that education you have to go to the institution. If you want to get an education in chemistry you go to college. Not that you have to.... It's not.... Yes, you have to come to the place where this is being taught. It doesn't mean you have to give up everything, but you have to take education from the recognized authority.

Kathy Kerr: Does it ever end?

Jayādvaita: No, no. In Bhagavad-gītā it's described as avyayam. It means there's no end of it. More and more.

Devotee (1): But living in the temple is not necessary to engage in Kṛṣṇa conscious activities. You can engage outside also, take advantage of reading the books and visiting the temple, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kathy Kerr: Do you consider that going..., your movement then is basically more of an educational movement than a religious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Educational. It is religious, but it is not a man-made religious. Our idea.... I have already explained that our idea of religion means that like the sugar, it must be sweet. It is not that in Europe sugar is not sweet, in India it is sweet. Sugar, wherever it is, it is sweet. Similarly, the soul, the spirit soul is the same everywhere. So he, the spirit soul, is now embodied within this material body, and he is suffering on account of this material body. So we are teaching everyone how to get out of this material body and stay in his original, spiritual body. This is our real movement. This is another way..., another name is liberation. We are suffering within this body. Our suffering means on account of this body. So if there is such science how to continue our life without changing body, that science we are teaching. It is purely educational.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Changed, or another body you have got. Change means another body. If you dress your child, you get another.(?) So it is simple truth. So you have got another body or another dress, but you are still living. This simple truth they cannot understand, and they are advanced in education.

Kathy Kerr: Does that mean then that once the immediate corporal body is dead, the one that you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to conclude.... This is, what is called, logic, that my, I have changed my body, still I am living. Therefore when I change this body, I shall live. This is the logic.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Because my..., it is fact, it is not a bogus thing. It is not some imagination, "By meditation you become God." We do not bluff like that. We give education, scientific education. The books are there. You'll find this Bhagavad-gītā... Have you read ever? No. Here, how to understand God and myself, my relationship. There is no such thing that "You sit down fifteen minutes and you become God." There is no such bogus thing. It is science.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this happened in Toronto. Wretched world. (long pause) (break) He writes what appears to be a nice editorial, "Weak Western Educational System"—it's on the second page—in which he brings out how the Indians have taken the worst from the West, namely it's educational system.

Prabhupāda: It is my version?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but I think he has gotten this from you, the idea of Vedic education. You're the only person preaching this in the world, practically. He's certainly read some of your books, Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: You see these two things especially, that they.... English is their mother tongue, mother language. They can easily become English scholar very easily. And Sanskrit language is no difficulty. Read and write, read and write, then he will learn. Our education in Sanskrit was in college. Of course, I was the best student in my class of Sanskrit. I was standing first. But we are not like the so-called Sanskrit scholars. But for our purpose we can read and write, that's all. Similarly, we don't want any very learned scholars, Sanskrit grammarian to manufacture jugglery of words, meanings. No, we don't want that. Simply we can conduct our business, that's all. Just like Marwaris, they, their education is up to their business understanding, that's all. They don't want to be scholars or technologists. You won't find in big, big Marwari family they have become a doctor, engineer or technologist, no. But in business dealings they are first class. (laughs) That they train. I had one Marwari friend in Calcutta. He was a very rich businessman and has got several (indistinct). So sometimes I went to his house. I saw that he had engaged a Sanskrit paṇḍita and an English teacher. That's all. So I asked him, "You don't send your children to school?" "No, no, no, no. I..." If we require some technologist, we can purchase. You pay some money; so many technologists you will get, M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C., C.H.C. All right, take payment and do business (indistinct). They employ very, very, very large salary. But on the head, management, their own sons, grandsons.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: When he came to India, he was my intimate friend. So he was telling me that "In our country, when some Indian student comes, especially while returning home after their education, they stop for some time in Germany, we used to inquire from him how much he is aware of his Indian original culture." Because they have got very good respect. All over the world they have got. Even Russia. They have got good respect for Indian culture. They have liked our books only on account of the..., because the Sanskrit verses are there. They took it, "Oh, it is original." Scholarly people like our book on that account, because we explain original Sanskrit verse. That they have got very good regard, that there is knowledge. They're impressed. And Britishers made propaganda only that India had no culture, almost uncivilized: They push women forcibly in the fire after the death of her husband, and in the temple, the priests, they make all nonsense with women, and so on. This was their.... Just to prove that "India was uncivilized, and we are making them civilized. By our compassion for the uncivilized persons, we are occupying."

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
(SB 1.2.19)

If you want peace and happiness, then you have to transcend the platform of rajas-tamaḥ and come to the platform of goodness. Then you have to transcend the goodness platform and come to the vasudeva platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. This is progress. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobha. Rajas tamas means kāma and lobha, endless greediness and endless lusty desires. That will keep us within the category of material existence. Mūḍhā janmani janmani aprāpya mām (BG 16.20). Then we remain mūḍha, life after life. That is not the aim of human life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). We take once type of body and struggle and again die, and again accept another, another type of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. This is going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Find out this verse.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

This is the beginning of spiritual education. One has to learn it, that "I'm not this body; I'm within this body, and I'm transmigrating from one body to another." That means repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is the main problem of life. So human life means to make a solution of these problems, not to be entangled with these problems again and again.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: "This knowledge is the king of education."

Prabhupāda: No, Sanskrit.

Jayādvaita: Oh. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyam.

Prabhupāda: Pavitram idam uttamam.

Jayādvaita: Pavitram idam uttamaṁ pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam.

Prabhupāda: Uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You can directly understand whether you are going forward. These boys, they are educated, they are coming from rich family—at least, in rich nation. They are not fools and rascals. Unless they feel pratyakṣa avagamam, how they can stick? Just like you are hungry, you are eating. Unless you feel that you are eating, "Yes, I am getting strength, satisfying my appetite," then you can go on eating. It is like that. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You don't require to get certificate from others, that "I am eating. Whether I am satisfied?" You will feel. You don't require to take certificate from others. If you are actually eating, the result you will feel.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. Younger, older, there is no restriction.

Guest (1): It doesn't appeal more to the young ones than to the older people?

Prabhupāda: No, any education, if you take young, youthtime, that is easily. For old man it is difficult, but he has to take so many years to forget what he has learned. (laughter) That is the difficulty. Young man, they are easily receptive. Old man thinks, "Why shall I give up my present understanding?" That is the difficulty. But if he gives up and takes to, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if he takes to it, then immediately, in a moment. So this is, this plate is for me?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, no, keep it and I shall.... At least I shall see. It is for you, take it.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The real education is life. Gurukula means it is a way of life training. It is said that brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānta. This is the way of life: how to learn controlling the senses. Nowadays we have got school, colleges, universities, but this method is not there, how to become dānta. The method is different, that "You can do whatever you like; you simply attend class." That is not the way of life. This is tapasya.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: They have got cars and they have got roads also. Very good. That's all right. But why they should give up the real business of life?

Hari-śauri: I don't think it's so much that they gave it up; they didn't ever know what it was.

Prabhupāda: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to...

Kīrtanānanda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?

Hari-śauri: They are all giving up out of hopelessness themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are now asking... In Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swamiji, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughs) They were little insulted.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Generally, they are engaged in education.

Hari-śauri: I know in England they all have responsible jobs. Doctors and like that.

Prabhupāda: There are many medical practitioners. I have, I learned that British people, they like Indian physicians.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, they're very popular.

Prabhupāda: They have got faith that these people treat carefully. One civil surgeon(?) is a Bengali in London. Civil surgeon(?). You have heard this Aurabindo? His father was a medical practitioner in England, and he was born there.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): In the Seventh Canto, second volume, the first chapter in that volume, Prahlāda Mahārāja is talking how the studying of the three Vedas is external and it includes knowledge though, of education and self-realization, but he considers it material because it is external study of the Vedas. I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: Anything external is material.

Devotee (1): Self-realization is included in that list of education and self-realization and other items.

Prabhupāda: Yes, self-realization, simply understanding "I am not this matter," is also external because there is chance of falldown. But when you are actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is positive platform of self-realization.

Devotee (2): Just like the brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahmeti.

Prabhupāda: Different stages of self-realization. (pause) Today there is no wind at all.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We are taking precaution. The other fools, rascals, they are thinking, "What these people are doing? They are (indistinct) to have no this program, that," according to them. Just like our Vivekananda, he prescribed, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The same thing—hospital. We kill all animals, and the hospital patient is given the meat for improvement of the health. But he does not know that this is not curing; he is become implicated in his karma. He has to be killed again, and eaten by the other animals. That he does not know. They do not accept karma-phala. Eh? The result of fruitive activities, (indistinct). But you will have to accept. There is no excuse. If you contaminate some disease, you must suffer from that disease. There is no excuse. So kriya(?) karma, you have to enjoy or suffer the result of karma. Karma-bandhana. But when you act for Kṛṣṇa, then you are mukta. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma must be there. If you work for Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right, and if you act for your sense gratification, then there is bondage. If you do not take education, if you remain fools and rascals, then you will suffer and create disturbance for others also. Therefore everyone must be educated, good citizens. It is good for him, good for others. (long pause) So you go on reading.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to...

Prabhupāda: No, you require lamp. So you finish that lamping business as simply as possible. In the balance time you save you improve your self-realization. That is the life. Just like this child, he wants to play. He does not go to school, does not take an education, and he improves type of toys, toys, he's engaged in improved type of football playing, and... Then is that very good intelligence?

Kīrtanānanda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?

Kīrtanānanda: No, of course not.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mūḍha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?

Kīrtanānanda: As much as they want.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Abhirucir, yes. Now formerly marriage was a religious ceremony. Marriage was, this boy and this girl should be married, it is a religious function where the father and mother will see their horoscope and see if they are compatible, they will agree, they will live peacefully, so many things are there. Still, in India such things are calculated by the parents of the boy and the girl. But in this Kali-yuga, dāmpatye abhirucir. Abhirucir means the boy and the girl, if he likes, if he says, that's all. No other calculation. And the, after three days after marriage, there is divorce. (laughter) Because abhirucir, "I like, I don't like," that's all. Now I like, and after three days I don't like, finished, business. In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper. So this, formerly the father, mother used to see that this boy and this girl are going to be married. So by horoscope, by other circumstances, by family, cultural, by education, so many things, whether they will live peacefully. That was the understanding. Husband-wife means, a man requires a woman, a woman requires a man. They should be combined in such a way that they can live peacefully. If there is no disturbance of the mind, then they can make further progress in spiritual life. Therefore marriage is also necessary, and that must be properly done. This was the... Now there is no such consideration. The boys and girls are free, and if one likes the other... Dāmpatye, what is that?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In this Sixteenth Chapter the Lord explains both the transcendental nature and its attendant qualities as well as the demoniac nature and its qualities. He also explains the advantages and disadvantages of these qualities. The word abhijātasya in reference to one born of transcendental qualities or godly tendencies is very significant. To beget a child in a godly atmosphere is known in the Vedic scriptures as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. If the parents want a child in the godly qualities they should follow the ten principles of the human being. In Bhagavad-gītā we have studied also before that sex life for begetting a good child is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Sex life is not condemned provided the process is used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness at least should not beget children like cats and dogs but should beget them so they may become Kṛṣṇa conscious after birth. That should be the advantage of children born of a mother or father absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."

Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends from the beginning of student life, kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1), they should be trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends. Now from the very beginning of student life, because there is no education, he is trained up as demon. What can be done? So many things have to be reformed by pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These are Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, whatever is described in the Bhagavad-gītā that is within the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to do all this. Water.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brāhmaṇa is the son of a brāhmaṇa. That is caste system. But Kṛṣṇa does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of cātur-varṇyaṁ. Real cātur-varṇyaṁ means guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. One must be qualified. And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya śamo damo titikṣva ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brāhmaṇa or to become kṣatriya. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The so-called Vedantists are bluffers. They do not know what is Vedānta. But the things are going on that people want to be bluffed and the bluffers take advantage of it, and therefore... Veda means knowledge, and anta means end of knowledge. That is the combination of Vedānta. So in the Vedānta the beginning is, Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsāḥ. "Now, in the human form of life, they should inquire about the Absolute Truth." That is the Vedānta philosophy. And what is that Absolute Truth? Sūtra means in aphorism, in small words, a big philosophy is given. That is called sūtra. A little link. So Vedānta-sūtra begins when one is inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And it is answered, first question is now about brahma-jijñāsa, inquisitive, inquiry about Brahman. So Brahman is, in nutshell, described: "Brahman means the origin of everything." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). All the Vedas, all the book of knowledge, their business is how to search out God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). So the whole Vedānta is description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But because in this Kali-yuga people will not be able to study Vedānta nicely on account of lack of education, therefore Vyāsadeva personally wrote a commentary on the Vedānta.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. The Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, fifteen. "Hinduism has been defined as a way of life."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32).

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hinduism has been defined as a way of life. In...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme," you may say, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." "No. He is God. Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean the sun is different. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although appeared in India, now He has come to Western countries, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But He is God undoubtedly. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one religion, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Then... You said we must know God before we can love Him. So that means devotional service is preceded by knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the process in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are 18 chapters. The whole 18 chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna completely in awareness he accepted, "Kṛṣṇa, You are paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12)," that is understanding. Then surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third class man comes, "You surrender unto me." Will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The 18th Chapter is described to know God, and then Kṛṣṇa proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it, "Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender. Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Darby: ...don't need education then to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are coming from Detroit? There are so many factories for four-wheel vehicles, and there is no factory to educate man to the right path. Perhaps... This is our little attempt, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to educate to the right path. We are not getting any help, either from the authority... In our own way, as far as possible, we are doing. When people will be educated they will be able to understand who is guru, who is not guru. We can say, but who is going to accept? We say always that they are all rascals, but who will accept our statement? And the state, (if) there had been a department to see what is the qualification of guru, then immediately they would have taken steps. Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time one man falsely presented himself as God. Immediately his head was cut off. Pauṇḍraka. So the state must be very strong to punish the miscreant. But there is no such state.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: That's due to too much sinful activity? Too much sinful activity that they can't think that there's some divine influence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence. Your existence is not purified. You are put in a position.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: But that rejection, that is their choice of the heart, isn't it? I mean, they have a choice to make?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the same thing. Just the child is playing, but if you say "My dear child, you please take education, otherwise you'll suffer." "Oh, I don't..." Child does not like. He wants to play. That is childish, or foolish.

Rūpānuga: He doesn't want to be educated.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for becoming educated about Brahman. They will not take it. They want to remain animals, eating and sleeping, this animal life. Eat nicely, sleep nicely, have sex life nicely, defend nicely, that's all. Nicely, according to the standard of the body. Here in America, to have a conveyance nicely like a car like this, but in Indian village, a bullock cart is nicely. So this nicely and that nicely, according to the body. You have got this American body, this is nicely. He has got Indian body, that is nicely. But the feeling of niceness is there and here. We are having sex in a very nice apartment, decorated and so on, so on, and a dog is having sex on the street. But the pleasure of sex life is both the same. But we are thinking this is nice. But that is not the fact. The niceness, the feelings of niceness, is there and here.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Irresponsible life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, meaninglessness. No meaning. So it has no purpose because of this very concept. So at least there's a strong influence, especially in the colleges and the university circles, the students...

Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.

Hari-śauri: You once called them slaughterhouses. Slaughterhouses of education.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, by the mercy of His Divine Grace, if we can eliminate this theory then we can establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness on firm scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And there is a great necessity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. To save the people from this foolish type of education.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What will be the technique to attract the Bengali educational class? To attract the Bengalis who are educated, what technique will be most effective?

Prabhupāda: This kīrtana and prasāda distribution.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it seems to me they are not so much interested. There was a man who came from Calcutta about two months ago, a Bengali, and in fact we were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta. And I discussed this problem with him, why so-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement. And his answer was that the Caitanya movement was mostly for less intellectuals. For those who are educated, they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society. All the Bengalis get together...

Prabhupāda: And waste their time. The rascals waste their time.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (3):

rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
pavitram idam uttamam
pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ
su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam
(BG 9.2)

"This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed."

Devotee (3): So by struggling to overcome our senses, we can please you and obtain your mercy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

You are falsely thinking "I am everything. I can, by technological understanding, improve the condition." But the real problem is, as it is put forward by Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are put under the laws of material nature, by which we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. So unless you make a solution of these problems, there is actually no advancement of education. But the problems remains the same.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: In that way we can help the people in general.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, that is the fact. If you are actually scientist, then prove that there is God. That is your success of education. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito... (SB 1.5.22). Your education has meaning when by your education, by your scientific knowledge, you'll prove that there is God, He is so glorified. Then you are welcome. Then you are really scientist. And if you become a rascal, then you say "Oh, there is no need of God. We are going to manufacture. Just wait for one million years." Is that good proposal, I have to wait for one million years to see your scientific research work? And we shall allow such fools to flourish? That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: We have to stop this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. Real knowledge should be given. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other morning Śrīla Prabhupāda was mentioning about the Institute, the Bhaktivedanta Institute. So is there anything else that your Divine Grace wants to?

Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So therefore for complete happy society, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. All intelligent persons, they should join this movement and reform the present social, political, religious. All field of activities, they should reform. Then people will be happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog. Then what is the benefit?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: I'm very glad to see you.

Mrs. Furman: We saw you on television today. Did you see? Was it Channel Four? The news has been on, it's on again at eleven. Very nice.

Mr. Furman: It was a very good representation.

Prabhupāda: So it is not a sectarian religious sentimental movement. It is a movement for giving real education, knowledge, to the people all over the world without any discrimination. So at least those who are intelligent class of men, they should join and study this movement and try to broadcast for the good of the human society. The basic principles I have already explained.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Demigod means just like you or me, ordinary living being, but they are very pious. On account of their piety they have got very good post. Just like janma... There are four: to get birth in very high, aristocratic family; to become very learned scholar; to become beautiful in bodily feature. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26): high parentage, birth, to take birth in aristocratic family, in brāhmaṇa family, or very exalted royal family. This is janma. And śruta, to become very learned scholar. Janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich. Janmaiśvarya-śruta, śruta means education, and śrī, bodily beauty. These things are obtained on account of piety, pious activities. And just the opposite, low-class family, lowborn, no money, always poverty-stricken, no education, no bodily beauty, these are the results of impious activities. So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years. Very beautiful body, facilities. There... The other day I was reading about the bodily construction of woman there. They are ever-young, the chest is very hard. (laughs) It is stated, yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So you can do. Either you go again to this human form of life. This opportunity is there. If you want you can go again to the higher planetary system, live there for so many years, and again when your resultant action of pious activities is finished, you again come and become a grass, and again begin... This is going on. But where is the science to understand how the process is going on? Therefore people are kept in ignorance. They have dismissed the idea, that there is no life after death, that's all. (guest leaving) There is no education. They are kept in ignorance. That is the problem, risky civilization, that people are kept in dark ignorance about the problems of the life. They do not know. They are struggling from the beginning of life, but they do not know what is the problem of life. Neither they have any information what are all these different planets, how they are being used, who are using them. They have no information. They are making a show of going to the moon planet, Mars planet, useless attempt. And presenting some photograph from Arizona. That is going on.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Sve sve karmaṇi. "A man can become perfect by doing his prescribed duty."

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted. Because at the present moment education means to get some service. What is the value of that education? If you become dependent on others, then what is the value of this education? Therefore kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Everyone is a śūdra. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ: (BG 9.32) never mind, even if you are śūdra, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll become perfect.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ (BG 7.8). When you drink water, you drink water for some taste, nice taste to quench your thirst. So that taste is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. Apsu does not mean only water. Suppose you are drinking, so you are getting some pleasure by the taste of the drinking, and if you think that this taste is Kṛṣṇa, then gradually you'll give up this drinking. Because you'll be purified by thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So some way or other think of Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. So the process is given, you can think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours if you practice. Who can avoid drinking water? At least twice, thrice, we drink water, and if we think the taste is Kṛṣṇa... Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Who can avoid seeing the sunshine and moonshine? As soon as you see the sunshine and the moonshine, if we think "Here is Kṛṣṇa," the sunshine is Kṛṣṇa. So this thinking of Kṛṣṇa, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). He is first-class yogi who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa in every step of life. That is first-class yogi. He does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa. And the process is there. If we adopt, we can think of Kṛṣṇa. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). It is not difficult, simply it requires practice. (sound of thunder) Śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu. Now this sound in the sky, that is recommended, that the sound in the sky, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the sound." So we can think of Kṛṣṇa as soon as there is sound. Not only this sound, when the airplane goes, drurururururu, that is also Kṛṣṇa. The practice. It doesn't require much learning, much education, simply take the words of Kṛṣṇa and he becomes a vast learned person. Kṛṣṇa is giving all the instruction. (sound of thunder) And actually, that is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot create such sound. It is Kṛṣṇa's management that there is sound while the cloud is rolling by air.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?

Guest (2): Superior.

Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Janice Johnson: What does the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement offer that other religions do not?

Prabhupāda: I say it is not... Don't compare with religion. It is a educational movement. One should understand his spiritual identity.

Janice Johnson: I think I'm through, thank you.

Interviewer: We're through also, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (interviewers leave)

Rūpānuga: You made some nice points during the interview, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They wanted to know why we were doing things so elaborately, and you said, "This is for you, so that you will come here. We can live anywhere, under a tree, but if we were living under a tree you would not come. So this couch is for you to sit down because you can't sit down cross-legged." They appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the fact. We can live any condition. What he'll do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We saw the first Back to Godhead magazine yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: There was one thing I was wondering a little bit. Is the possibility of..., is it possible of making some experiments which would tend to indicate that life is not material? And this might be appealing to some of the people with scientific education, because they are used to such things, experiments.

Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.

Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And he's convinced. He's not an ordinary person. He's convinced. So let us take his help and...

Dr. Sharma: I'll see what the government and the foundations... I can go to the foundation to help it. Once the Institute is formed, I can go to the foundations to get the money from them both to support the movement or the Institute for education.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Dr. Sharma: Once we get started on that... You must be very tired now. You have...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Today is Ekādaśī also.

Dr. Sharma: I do not know when I will be fortunate to have your darśana again, but I certainly think God will again give me the blessing to have your darśana. India is fortunate to have...

Prabhupāda: We shall see every moment, every day with our work. If the work is going on, then I see you, you see me. (laughs)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Charges four things, He wants: to always think of Him, become His devotee, worship Him, mad-yājī, and offer obeisances unto Him. Therefore this temple is there. These four things can be done even by the child. So why don't you do it? And the guarantee is that if anyone does like that, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Every one of you should come to the temple, always think of the Deity, and if possible chant His holy name and offer Him some worship and obeisances. That will make you perfect. New York is such a big city, there are so many Indians, they should come. Where is the difficulty, to become a thinker of Kṛṣṇa, always thinking, man-manā? The Deity is there. As soon as you come, you get some impression of the Deity. So if you think of the Deity, where is the difficulty? (Hindi) Can anyone say that there is difficulty in thinking of Kṛṣṇa? And as soon as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee, immediately. And as soon as you become a devotee, you'll offer something for worship. And at the end of worship, you offer your obeisances. There is no need of education or Vedānta knowledge. Vedānta knowledge means this, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Anyone can do. And practically see. These foreigners, ten years, five years ago they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and because they are following this man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, they are now advanced devotees. So why Indians are lacking? Hmm? What is the objection?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: He does not know what to do to prepare.

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. So this education, this civilization is so dangerous that everyone is kept in the darkness. And when he dies, this everything is finished, he's going to accept. Whatever body nature gives him, he has to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes people criticize us that we are talking too much about death.

Prabhupāda: Because we are not fool like you. Because as sure as death. But you are so fool you do not think of it. So we are not rascal like you. This is the difference. We take practical reality, but you are such a fool you don't care for the reality. So we are not so fool like you are.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The whole basic principle is this, that people should understand, as I was explaining this morning, the sat and asat. So at the present moment we are living in the way that is asat. But there is another life, sat. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to raise a person from the asat platform to the sat. Under illusion they are, what is called, amock? They (laughs) have gone amock. So it is a humble attempt to stop their, this suicidal policy. They are practically committing suicide. They do not know what is the value of life and how they are spoiling it, this valuable life. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are trying to adjust things by the arrangement of external energy. That is not possible. Whatever adjustment they are making, so many big, big leaders, politicians, they came. Napoleon, Hitler, Gandhi, this, that, by the waves of material nature everything is driven away. In that way there is no possibility of adjustment. It is not... Kathacaturamanam mali mali javanam(?) How many, caturānana. Caturānana means Brahmā. They come and go, come and go. And there is no permanent life, it is all asat. So they should come to the sat platform, that is perfect. The more you remain strong in your spiritual life, then more it will be impressed, it will act. And if it actually is not spiritual life but theatrical performance, then it will not help.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking a question, Śrīla Prabhupāda: isn't it important to mold the activities of ourselves and also the children in coming to this movement; to mold them that so that we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (why) our gurukula is there. How these children are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, (indistinct), how they are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are doing the same thing, offering obeisances to the Deities, taking prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the same way as his father is doing. So automatically he's being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Good association, that is required. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. We are keeping this house for association of devotees so that automatically they become Kṛṣṇa conscious by association. The most unfortunate position is that there is no education about future life, or the perfection of life. The education is the animal education: the animal (is) eating, we are eating. If we are eating on table, or nice place, nice chair, then we think we are advanced. But the business is the eating. Similarly sleeping. The dog is sleeping on the street, we are sleeping in good apartment, skyscraper building. They are thinking this is advancement of civilization. But actually the business is sleeping. Similarly sex life. The dog is having sex life on the street, we are having in a very nice apartment. The business is sex. In this way our modern activities are animal activities but in a polished way. But that does not make any difference between the animal propensity and so-called civilized life. Civilized life is there when we understand what is God, our relationship with God. That is civilized life, but that is lacking. There is no such education. The education is only the same animal life in a polished way, that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education. Therefore it is not a sentimental so-called religious movement, it is a scientific movement of real education. To solve the problems of life.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

Ghostly haunted. A person ghostly haunted, as he does, acts, similarly, anyone who is under the clutches of māyā, he acts like this. (break) ...this church, I came. They purchased one set of books. And one lady, Mrs. McGuire I think, she arranged this meeting. Underneath there is subway. I was sitting there and the subway sound was cut-cut cut-cut cut-cut. So I asked what is this and they said subway. Within this building there is subway. I think they are repairing. What is this building? That museum?

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not have any financial help, but His movement is going on. It does not depend on a..., on financial. It is independent. Spiritual movement is independent of any material help. That is spiritual movement.

Interviewer: But how would you be able to carry out your educational or book publishing program if you did not have a financial backing?

Prabhupāda: How I am managing now?

Interviewer: But now you are doing well financially.

Prabhupāda: You are stressing on financial help but my reply is that this movement does not depend on financial help. That is the reply.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Even for eating, sleeping, sex life and defense we require some knowledge from a teacher. Say for eating, so we take knowledge from expert what kind of eating we shall take, what kind of vitamin, what kind of... So that also requires education. And sleeping also requires education. And so for bodily concept of life one has to take knowledge from others. So when he is above this bodily concept of life—he understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul"—so similarly he has to take lesson and education from an expert.

Interviewer: Could you go over each of the three functions you've been mentioning-eating, sleeping and sex—and tell me what specifically, what rules or hints that you would give people who are seeking spiritual enlightenment to aid in their lives in these ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is our books. It is our books. We have got enough matter to understand. It is not a thing that you'll understand in a minute.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.

Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interviewer: As?

Prabhupāda: As mother.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said one of the standards of education is to see all living entities equally. So not that we say that an animal has no soul, therefore he can go to the slaughterhouse, but a man has soul, so he cannot. Because we see all living entities equally, so we do not send man to slaughterhouse, and we do not send animals to slaughterhouse. That is education.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you propose to do with criminals in your educational system? How will you reform them?

Prabhupāda: Criminals should be punished.

Interviewer: Punished?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: How so?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How seriously should they be punished?

Prabhupāda: That you have to consult śāstra. There is direction. It is... Practically it is the same. Just like Manu-saṁhitā, it says that if one is a murderer then he should be killed. Life for life. He should be hanged. That is the old system. The king used to kill a murderer. So that is almost the same punishment.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no such direct punishment, but it is prohibited. It is prohibited.

Rāmeśvara: There is no direct punishment, but it is prohibited. Part of education and social convention, it is prohibited. Not that the government allows propaganda to be made for illicit sex.

Prabhupāda: The other words, the woman who is chaste, she is very much glorified.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A chaste woman is very much glorified in Vedic culture.

Interviewer: I'm particularly interested in the educational system that you are setting up. Do you think...

Bali-mardana: You mean for children?

Rāmeśvara: She's referring to now the system that we have for our children, Gurukula. So what's the question?

Interviewer: My question is because they are receiving this education, physical and spiritual education so that they will be free of corruption and sin, they might still, even with this education, they still might not be intelligent, what you consider intelligent people. How, you know... Is it more likely that they will be what you would term intelligent, having been educated in this system?

Prabhupāda: No, there are different types of education. Just like in the material world. There is education for medical man. There is education for engineer. There is education for so many other departments. Similarly, there is education how to make one man spiritual. So we are going to give education how to become spiritually advanced. That is our purpose.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Spiritually advanced, that is our purpose. No, her question was whether all the people that go to our Gurukula will become spiritually advanced.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. That is Gurukula education.

Rāmeśvara: Even though some are born with more intelligence and some are born with less intelligence.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Average intelligence will do.

Interviewer: Well, then conceivably it seems that almost the great majority of society would adhere to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: So then, since it doesn't matter whether less intelligent, small intelligent, if they go to Gurukula, they can become spiritually advanced.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because spiritually everyone is free from material bondage. So materially we find one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent, but spiritually everyone can be equally intelligent.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's an educational process. Someone coming from the street you can't expect that he's given a degree in chemistry. He has to be trained up. So the educational process goes on and on. It expands naturally.

Bali-mardana: Just like in the beginning Prabhupāda was teaching Bhagavad-gītā personally to his disciples. But now in each one of his over a hundred temples throughout the world, his instructions are being taught. So he's expanded himself through his books and his temples. So anyone who enters into them, they are associating with him and becoming purified. So then more temples, more people come and become purified.

Interviewer: Are you prepared to die?

Prabhupāda: What is this question?

Bali-mardana: Are you prepared to die?

Prabhupāda: You are not prepared? Why don't you answer?

Interviewer: Pardon me?

Prabhupāda: You are not prepared to die?

Interviewer: I haven't thought about it too much.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: These things are discussed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. It is an educational movement, it is not a religious movement, sentiment. One requires to be educated; then he is completely on the spiritual platform.

Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question before he reads the passage.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all about death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But for what purpose and to what end? What's the final end?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Is it an internal educational process or external?

Prabhupāda: It is internal but externally... Just like externally, behavior makes internal inclinations. If you associate with some bad company, the internally also you develop bad propensities. And if you associate with good company, then internally you develop good propensities. So internally, externally, they are interrelated. By external behavior we influence our internal energy. And by internal atmosphere we get the external body.

Interviewer: I'm trying to find out whether the consciousness lies within us, brought out...

Prabhupāda: Yes, consciousness... Consciousness will be... Because... Just like sunshine and the sun. Similarly, the soul means consciousness. It is just like sunshine. The soul is very small particle, but it is shining as consciousness.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But we are trying to educate the prisoners that "Your life is not perfect within the jail. Your life is perfect without the jail." This is our education.

Interviewer: Life is not perfect in the jail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the person in the jail they are thinking, "What is this, they are not working for the jail life?"

Interviewer: Person in the jail, I didn't get that.

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand that there is life after jail. They are so fool, rascal that they cannot understand that without jail one can live.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We're not working to keep people in the jail conception of life. So that's why they cannot understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: You mean you're not working for the jail life?

Bali-mardana: To keep people within the conception that life is within the jail.

Prabhupāda: Just like a man has gone to jail, he's giving education to the prisoners, "My dear brother prisoners, this life is not good, you become honest, don't come to the jail." So other prisoners, they are working hard, they are hammering on the bricks, they think that "This man is not hammering on the bricks, he's talking only."

Interviewer: I didn't gather that.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life. As the dog is thinking "I am dog," and barking, similarly, if a person thinks "I am Indian" or "I am American," so there's not much difference between the dog and the man. The man must think otherwise, that "I am not this body," then the civilization, human civilization, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unfortunately, there is no education. This education was little there. Even in India that is now becoming finished on account of this Western influence. So that is now practically finished. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement begins from the understanding that "I am not this body." Therefore its activities are different from the activities of bodily conception of life. People cannot understand. That is the difficulty.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?

Interviewer: Yes.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I... We can. By your grace, Kṛṣṇa is here, and we have no intention to come from there. I had intention that let the children go back home. And we fight, all this stuff. I say, "All right, we must start to fully educate him." Full education is that he become advanced in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: So I said "We haven't got any education." Under the law of this country, if they have to remain here, they have to go up to sixteen years to the school.

Prabhupāda: No, education is good, but the association is...

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, they don't have any asso... They don't go anywhere. They don't eat anywhere. Even so many invitations come, either they go to the library or they go to the temple or this place. They have no friends, nothing else. They don't even take the water anywhere, even to my brother's house. They don't take anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Your brother is also here?

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God, that "Here is God." You are searching after God, and somebody, in disappointment saying that "God is dead." God is neither dead, nor it is fictitious, but it is factual, and here is this God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This is the verdict of the Vedic literature. There may be many other gods. They are expansions of the original Personality of Godhead. If anyone is interested to study the science of God, you'll find it in the Vedic literature, how Kṛṣṇa expands by His plenary portion in different names of God. It is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). That Absolute Truth is advaita, without any duality; acyuta, infallible. Advaita, acyuta, anādi. Everything has got it's beginning, anything you... That is our material conception because we have got the experience—anything we take, it has got a beginning. But Kṛṣṇa, He is described, advaita, acyuta, anādi: "He has no beginning."

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material condition life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Live that way. And Kṛṣṇa is providing so much facilities for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good, greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattaḥ. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Is it Fifth Canto?

Bhagavān: Ṛṣabhadeva.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharman bhagavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ purusaḥ. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What is the next verse?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education. What is that? Read it.

Harikeśa:

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
nāyaṁ bhūtva bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam purāṇo
na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
(BG 2.20)

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of education, that you are a spirit soul. Because you are spirit soul you are changing bodies. This is the understanding, beginning A-B-C-D. So when the body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished—you get another body. Just like you have got this coat and shirt. If you change tomorrow, you come to me in another shirt or another coat, that means you are not finished. This science has to be understood. Then one can make progress about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Anglican Church...

Mike Robinson: Sorry, the English Church.

Prabhupāda: ...but we are concerned with the educational propaganda, that "You are not this body. Body is your covering, shirt and coat. Within the body you are living, and as you are spirit soul, you have got so many things to know."

Mike Robinson: Sorry, could I just change the tape? Perhaps if we can pick up where we were, if you could just carry on. Perhaps if I can carry on from where I was, that what I'm trying to understand is the difference it makes, a person being a member...

Prabhupāda: You try to understand this, that as you have got experience of change of body.... Have you got or not?

Mike Robinson: Yes, I've got the difference there.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like George. What is his value? He's artist, that's all. From educational point of view, from things other view, he does not know anything. But he has got some money on account of his artistic play on it(?), and he's big man, that's all. Somehow or other get money, you become a big man. There is no question of culture or anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. The money will be the criterion—no family, culture, education. These things will not be taken into account. If you have got money, then you are big man. Never mind what you are. Therefore people are after money. Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? If you become a perfect brāhmaṇa, who will care for you? Nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. "Why we shall become brāhmaṇa? Starve? For starvation?" Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed. Who will pay them? Hayagriva told me. He's not getting any job. There is another, Mr., Dr. Henderson. He's also not getting any job. He's selling insurance.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So now they took others?

Bhūgarbha: Now... We said that "You've begun; this is only the beginning. You cannot have incomplete set." They said "Yes, we cannot have incomplete," so they took the rest. And also that man, that Sastri, the Ministry of Education? That man Mr. Sastri, in the Ministry of Education, the Rātrī of Sanskrit-samsad, he bought fifty copies?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Bhūgarbha: He's also taken fifty standing orders now to complete wherever he is.

Prabhupāda: He is still there?

Bhūgarbha: No, he has shifted now, he's in Darbhanga.(?) But his successor, he's taken, we just made copy, it is printed in your Bhāgavatam. So he made true copy on some paper, and he has two copies of the last order, and this is the balance of his subscription, so he should take.

Prabhupāda: That is Education Ministry.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: She can keep him and teach him all the time? Until he's older and so on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. That is the duty of the father and mother. Along with that, he can teach others also. These things are to be organized. But some way or other, our students should be given education and spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Individually, collectively, somehow or other. The principle is laid down there, brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror-hitam. That's the beginning. Everything is there, we have to simply follow it. We haven't got to manufacture anything. That is a waste of time. Whatever is there, you follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Devotee (1): ...silk.

Prabhupāda: Thailand silk.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: And the temple also, Deity worship and everything.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, things are going nicely. There is no doubt about it. And children should be given that much education—to read and write and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: The devotees are talking how nice it was to sit outside with you and chant and hear you speak tonight. I remember the last time I was in New Vrindaban many years ago, when I first became a devotee. You were sitting outside, giving some lecture, series of lectures on Vyāsadeva and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I like this life, from my very childhood. And on our roof there were trees, plants, flower plants, and... My grandmother, she... We, all grandchildren used to water it. So downstairs we took water in, what is called? A jhāri?

Bhagavān: Sprinkling can?

Prabhupāda: Ah, sprinkling can. We all grandchildren, we were about half a dozen. So we took very much pleasure in watering. But my special tendency was that along with the plants, I, with the bushes, I'll sit down. My tendency. And I'll sit down for hours. And like that. In my childhood. In my maternal uncle's house also, I was doing that. As soon as I find some bush, I make a sitting place.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: These are happening. But when you talk of that "You learn how to become brahmacārī," that they will refuse. This is the position. The aftereffect is very, very bad, either you get legally or illegally. Legally, we have to raise the children very nicely. Otherwise, they will, unwanted children, create so much trouble. You have to take care for their proper education, of their clothes.(?) We say, "Never mind, you have got children, give them proper education, make them devotees, make their life successful." We cannot say that "You kill them." That we cannot say. That is not possible. Neither we can pack them in the, what is that box?

Hari-śauri: Lockers.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: French, he must be French, expert in language, at the same time, a devotee. Then he can explain. Otherwise no. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara, he asked that brāhmaṇa, bhāgavata paḍā giyā bhāgavata sthāne:(?) "Go and study Bhāgavata from bhāgavata." I have discussed this in the beginning of translation of Bhāgavata. So Bhāgavata, that is the limit of education. Vidyā bhāgavata vadhiḥ.(?) One has to study and take education up to Bhāgavatam. That is, if one understands Bhāgavatam, he's finished his education.

Bhūgarbha: He agrees. He's saying that he wishes-he's not criticizing in any way—but he wants that your books have a better audience, then more people will accept them. And he feels that if the French, the way that the French has been written, is changed, we'll have a better audience, it will reach higher.

Prabhupāda: But that is from scholarship point of view. But our point is this Bhāgavata must be presented by bhāgavata. And there is no much scholarship required. Just like Bhāgavata begins with the words janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This Sanskrit word means the Absolute Truth is that from where everything emanates.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is family relation. Ṛktha-haraiḥ svajanākhya-dasyubhiḥ. Ṛktha-haraiḥ(?). Their only business is that you earn money with hard labor, and they'll take away. Their business is to take away. And they have got legal right. Dāya, dāya-bhāga. The son has got the right, legal right, to take whatever the father has accumulated. Nobody will say "No, you cannot take." No, he has the right, and so far wife is concerned, her business is to extend your condition, material condition. When one is alone, brahmacārī, he has no condition, he lives freely. But as soon as he's married, so many obligations. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8), must have a nice house, must have good land, good source of income. And then if you have got house and good source of income, then you call friends to oblige them. Then get children, give them education, put them in nice condition of life, get them married, again grandchildren, and so on, so on. That means these material conditions which have embarrassed me, that business is very nicely done by the wife for increasing my embarrassment. Nowadays nobody takes responsibility of family. That is another thing. But marriage means to take so many responsibilities. That is another condition of material life. Then home, people are sacrificing so much for home, for country, for nation. That also will be finished with the end of this body. When the body's ended, you are no more Iranian or American or Indian. You do not know what you are.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That was my policy from the very beginning, that if the Americans accept, then my mission will be successful. And that is being done gradually, and I am insisting that, preach in America vigorously. If America accepts, then whole world will accept. That's a fact. Anywhere, although America may be fallen, the ideal is American, everywhere. Because they have got money. Kali-yuga means money. If you have got money, then you have got culture, you have got education, you have got everything. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, they were attached, family, aristocracy, culture, education. Nowadays there is no such thing. Get money and you get everything. It is not? Somehow or other, if you have got control over money then you have got everything. Bring that black Bhāgavatam. What is that sound coming? There is goat?

Parivrājakācārya: I think a lamb, sheep.

Prabhupāda: Lamb.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor, give me some money," or "I am diseased, please cure me." So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.

Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But I did not know. Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I'll come, "Yes, you can enter. Please." (laughter) I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, "Please go." They also knew that "He's a harmless..." So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā. Then yenātmā suprasīdati, in that condition you can execute. First of all, we have to ascertain on which platform we shall stand. And if you want to stand on the spiritual platform, nothing can check it. That is not conditioned. So why not stand directly to the spiritual platform and make you life successful? That is our preaching. People in general, they do not know the importance of the spiritual platform. Therefore they prefer to stay in the material platform. They have no sufficient education.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.

Atreya Ṛṣi: In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?

Prabhupāda: He's not... Just like the same question, a criminal, if you say, "In the beginning, how he became criminal," is that very intelligent question? What do you think? A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this question, "In the beginning, how he became a criminal," is that very intelligent question?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance. There is no school, no college, no institution to give instructions about this science. This is the position of modern civilization. People are kept in ignorance. They got the chance of human body to understand the value of life, but they are not given education by the father, by the guardian, by the king, by the guru. Nobody is giving. Therefore śāstra says you should not become a guru, you should not become a father, you should not become a king unless you are able to save him from these laws of nature, repetition of birth and death. Then you should not become. It's the duty of the guardians to give education to the dependents about the spiritual knowledge. But who is doing that? We are trying our bit because we are ordered by superior that "You do it." So we are trying as far as possible, that's all.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Well, starting, just like when there is a seed sown, the starting is there. Now it grows a tree and there is fruit, there is flowers. The fruit is green now. When it is yellow mango and ripe, you can take. The beginning is when you sow the seed. Just like child. The father puts the seed within the womb of the mother. The body begins from that moment, grows and grows. When it is fully grown up it comes out and acts and then walks. So beginning is there. You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good nice airplane. Still, you have to take ten hours to reach London. And mental speed, you can immediately, within a second, go to London. And spiritual speed, still more. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9), as soon as you give up the body you immediately go to Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual speed. Immediately. Not that so many miles, oh, Kṛṣṇaloka is far, far above this material sky, then spiritual sky. No. The spiritual speed is so high that tyaktvā dehaṁ, as soon as you give up this body, immediately. You can compare material speed and mental speed. Although you haven't got spiritual idea, still, we can at least imagine what is that spiritual speed. The mental speed is so rapid that by the speedy airplane I'll have to take four hours, you can reach there in four seconds by mental speed. That is with our experience. Then we can imagine how speedy is spiritual. It is actually known by education. It is a science. It is not sentiment. And everything is there.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Mr. Sharma is a devotee. He's a wonderful person. He's taken to spiritual life and is very serious about it. Mr. Sahani is also very serious, he's...

Prabhupāda: No, every Indian is a devotee. This is the privilege of taking birth in India. There is... Naturally he's devotee, and if he takes little education, take advantage of the Vedic instructions, then his life is successful. In the śāstra it is said even the demigods, they desire to take birth in India because this facility is there in India. This facility, the land is so sanctified that anyone who takes the body from this land, he's born sanctified. Now, if he further takes advantage of the Vedic knowledge, then his life becomes successful. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that anyone who has taken birth in India, make his life successful, and then preach this knowledge to the outside world.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: THat is misfortune. Ignorance means misfortune. The unfortunate persons are those who are ignorant, uneducated. Therefore you have to take education to become fortunate. And that education is being imparted by Kṛṣṇa, but you don't take it. That is misfortune. If you take education from Kṛṣṇa, you become fortunate. So why don't you take it? Kṛṣṇa has said this very thing.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

These are the classes. One who does not take the advantage of Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he's immediately grouped in these category: duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamaḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, āsuraṁ bhāvam. Kṛṣṇa says personally.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Duṣkṛtinaḥ means he has got intelligence, kṛti. Kṛti means one who has got intelligence, merit. But his merit is being utilized for sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. If merit is used for good work, that is called sukṛtina. And if the merit is used for manufacturing something harmful to the human society, then it is duṣkṛtina. Merit is there. A thief, rascal and cheater, he has got good merit, but he's using it for bad purpose. They are duṣkṛtina. Why he has become so? Mūḍhāḥ. Because he does not know his interest, ass. The example is ass, mūḍhāḥ. The ass does not know his interest. He is loading tons of cloth for others' interest, for a morsel of grass. And the rascal does not know he can get grass anywhere. Why he is taking so much trouble? Muḍḥāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ. And this human life was meant for understanding this, nara, but he has misused his life's asset. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. How it happened? They are so educated. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Their education has no value. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, don't care for Kṛṣṇa, don't care for God. "We are everything, we are God." This is going on. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are descriptions in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Fortune you create. Man is the architect of his own fortune. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's advice, then unfortunate. But my business is not difficult. We are simply going door to door and asking, "Sir, you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." If he is inquisitive, "How can I become?" "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So where is my difficulty? Haven't got to pay you something. I simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya (BG 18.69). "He's My most beloved person, who does this." So why shall I give up this simple job and become recognized by Kṛṣṇa? It is very simple thing. That is the advice of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "All of you become guru and deliver these persons where you live." So how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no knowledge. No, no. You haven't got to-yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You go and simply instruct him what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru." So Kṛṣṇa has said, "Surrender unto Me," I say "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," I become guru. Even though I am a fool number one, I become guru, because I am repeating what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. I don't require any education. Very simple thing. Everyone can become guru if he simply repeats what Kṛṣṇa has said, that's all.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That means you are violate the laws of God. Every place is God's place, so you're all God's sons. You can go anywhere. Unless I do something harm, you cannot check me. In the airport, everyone is checked. That means everyone is dishonest. Nowadays everyone is checked. So in the airport, the passengers, at least it is to be supposed they are paying so much fare, they are all respectable gentlemen. But nobody is to be trusted. They are all dishonest. This is your position. Even though you are outwardly respectable gentlemen, the airport authorities accept you as dishonest, to be checked. This is the effect of your education, everyone is dishonest. (lamb crying in background) Why the lamb is crying? Eh? The lamb?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they have lamb.

Prabhupāda: So they do not give the lamb to eat something?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They... I don't know, maybe they took the mother away or something.

Prabhupāda: No, I hear this sound always somewhere. No, they keep the lambs for killing, eh? But before killing, do they not supply any food? They starve?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They're very cruel. They don't have any human qualification.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Guest: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here, and the government needed people to get educated. So they gave a lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Guest: Yes. So everybody who could have some money or he could afford it, he sends his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Very huge (indistinct). But they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are four places where everybody... In London you can walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: There are Hindus?

Guest: Oh, yes. Most of the business shops are controlled by Hindus. Also in the school, as well, there are lots of teachers, and education is managed by Hindus. But they are for years... (break) ...for hundreds and hundreds of years. You make this tour around the world once a year or twice a year.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I've gone round the world fifteen times within ten years. Naturally more than once in a year. And we have got branches all over the world.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is generally done. Wife increases the responsibility. Strī-vistāra. But still one has to maintain wife. A brahmacārī has no responsibility. His only responsibility is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But a gṛhastha has many responsibilities. "There is the children, I have to give them education, see that they're well situated."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: A brahmacārī life. A devotee who has not had experience with the responsibility...

Prabhupāda: No, no, responsible... He has no, this material responsibility.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But he has responsibility towards Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Shouldn't we all eat downstairs? Should we have everyone take prasāda downstairs?

Prabhupāda: No, here. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa practically showing how to live Vṛndāvana life. In Vṛndāvana nobody knows Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, nobody knows. But their love for Śrī Kṛṣṇa is intense. That is wanted. Premā pumartho mahān. That is required. You simply become an intense lover of Kṛṣṇa, bas. Your life is successful. It doesn't require any education or... That is the Vṛndāvana residents' life. They did not know what Kṛṣṇa is. But it is, very loving center, all the residents of Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities are discussed, Nanda Mahārāja's friend would suggest, "Nanda Mahārāja, your son is wonderful. He must be some demigod. He has come to live with us." They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. (long pause) How far it is, Afghanistan from here?

Mr. Sahani: Actually, it's only one and a half hours.

Prabhupāda: Only? By car?

Mr. Sahani: No, no, by air. It's about, less than two thousand kilometers. Border is even nearer, but Kabul is less than two thousand kilometers.

Prabhupāda: One Afghan gentleman came. In Afghanistan there are many domiciled Hindus.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Mr. Sahani: He must have taken immigration. His family is going to America. His son and daughter must be there. All Iranians have sons or daughters in America or Europe. So...

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Mr. Sahani: Reason is because from the last fifty years the education was a big problem here. And the government needed people to get educated. So they gave lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

Prabhupāda: Foreign education.

Mr. Sahani: Yes. So everybody who could have some money if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne, even Switzerland, but they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody... In London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear...

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When you want to attract people you have to show that you (indistinct).

Guest (4): There are good persons who...

Prabhupāda: That good person is very, very rare. I... (break) ...education point of view.

Guest: Yes sir.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (4): Yatra-party, sir, in the films we do those...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Kṛṣṇa pastimes, still in India...

Guest (4): It is there, sir, so what my submission was that what we do as film producers and in this line of business, that we do it more on commercial basis. Gimmicks are there, castings are there, but then it is not so much educative. What your Prabhupāda wants to convey. If, as a member of...

Prabhupāda: Education you cannot give. Education means it is practical practice. But to show something, that you can attract even without film. The yatra-party can.

Guest (5): Yatra-party, sir, here again the problem is India's a vast country and for that purpose if you take the whole world as a place, how many yatra-parties can you...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that even if you attract better crowd, what will be the benefits? Unless, because unless you come to the point of practicing, there is no profit. Who will be attracted to practice Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Nobody is... We are getting practical experience.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Behar Lake?

Indian man: Vehar Lake. I think we have gone to see that big temple nearby. So this family has got about thirty, forty acres of land on (indistinct) the side. Very beautiful site.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...that to know God there is no necessity of education.

Indian man: No, he has got nothing. He cannot tell any children ask "What is this?" He will not be able to tell because he's not reading anything.

Prabhupāda: So you don't train, how they will learn?

Indian man: No, he himself is not trained, so he cannot give any answer to the children. So I told him, "At least you get their ISKCON books. You can read now before the children can read." So he immediately signed up. He immediately paid 2222 rupees by check and he agreed "I'll read Bhagavad-gītā and everything."

Prabhupāda: We don't require much money also. We require men first. Money will come. Money is coming. I started this business forty...

Indian man: Forty rupees.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā you have to take. (aside:) No children. Otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal. So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism." The bodily conception of life. And according to Vedic version, anyone who is identifying with this body, he is animal. So under the circumstances-(aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa—we are trying to revive the spiritual education of the human society.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You are taking so many education...

Guest (2): ...that I don't have to time to contemplate or study such things. Don't you think it's the responsibility of people like you to...

Prabhupāda: That means you are not properly trained up. The thing is, the first business of human being is to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta philosophy. Now we have got this human form of body, it is your duty to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. But if your guardians, if your parents, if your government does not teach you, then it is our misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Do you want this to become a part of the educational system here?

Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting, we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand, and because of their...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā, but if you do not study it, you neglect it, that is your fault.

Interviewer (3): No, that is because it is not part of the educational system.

Prabhupāda: Because you have it. It is the first educational system.

Interviewer (3): No, but the system that we have here...

Prabhupāda: That you have introduced. That is your unfortunate case.

Interviewer (4): No, that is because of historical reasons. We were ruined by a foreign...

Prabhupāda: If the real subject matter of study you neglect, that is your negligence, your misfortune.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We think the real problem is they do not know what they are.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Our modern education, they do not believe that there is spirit soul within the body and the spirit soul transmigrates from one body to another. Where is that education? Is there any education that there is spirit soul within the body and that spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another? Is there any education, scientific education, all over the world? That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (4): You mean to say that this should become part, an integral part of the educational system?

Prabhupāda: That is the most important part. If you do not know what you are, then you are talking like a nonsense. If you have lost your identity, then what is your education?

Interviewer (4): No, but we should realize the politicians...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of politician or economics. It is general education, that you must know your identity, what you are. Then knowledge...

Interviewer (4): I am living under the system, and that system is...

Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: He is very expert man.

Jayapatākā: He's a very expert... He's one of their chief politicians from India. He used to be Education Minister of Indira Gandhi. He's one of her right hand men.

Gargamuni: Very important for Bengal. Bengal is the most important state, and he has very prominent position to the Prime Minister as advisor.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Because he was very lenient. So mother had to be little strict for my education. So prepare a case for these rascals. We have got strong case. And charge, "Why you have made 'ungodly'? Prove it. What do you know about godly?" Charge them. So there will be discussion, long discussion, what is godly and what is not godly. Put them in the corner. "What do you know, rascal, about godly tradition? You have charged us, 'ungodly.'

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?

Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says... Because he is doing a lot of educational... He has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says that he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said, "We don't want to see him criticized."

Hari-śauri: They're supporting him.

Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?

Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge. The Bangalore University, some people at Bangalore University want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: He submits?

Pradyumna: They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies. We have to prepare...

Maṇihāra: "...of varying degrees of education and from many walks of life, students, teachers, scientists, servicemen, laborers, and professionals—indeed numerous race, creeds and nationalities—are attached towards it. The unifying characteristics that brings such diverse individuals to Kṛṣṇa consciousness are high ethical standards and a sincere desire to understand spiritual truths. To make a pleasure-loving and easy-going Western youth to shed his fashionable dress and make him give up his dearly cherished beefsteaks, wine and women, cannabis and LSD, and don the saffron robe, shave his head, hold the daṇḍa, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is no mean achievement. That ISKCON has made thousands of Western youths perform this seemingly impossible task is an eloquent testimony of the impact it has made on the life of the contemporary West. ISKCON does offer to the modern man a haven of refuge from the complexity of anxiety of present-day life. The society has indeed set before itself a noble and laudable ideal..."

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Gargamuni: Yours.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: The varṇāśrama-dharma, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, this is plan just to teach the whole society how to perform yajña. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. Therefore this is the beginning of human civilization. Varṇāśrama. How to return back. Just like Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja achieved, obtained, throughout the universe all the property, and he again returned to Vāmana. That was his success of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to teach people how one should voluntarily return the property of the Lord to the Lord. That is called yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So people actually suffering. Not only... This material life means suffering. We may say that we are very happy, but that is not the fact. Tri-tāpa, three kinds of miserable condition of life are there always, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. But we are accustomed to suffering, and we say suffering is happiness. That is called māyā. Actually, material life is... This body, as soon as we get this body, it means suffering.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: For the peaceful execution of material life these things are required, division. Just like in your government you have got some different ministerial department. You have introduced, this minister is for this department, this minister... Similarly, the brain department must be there. Without brain, even... Suppose a madman, he has got his hands and legs, but it is useless because the brain is lost. So brain must be there. So this varṇāśrama, revival of varṇāśrama is required. A class of men, brāhmaṇa—sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Āstikyam. In this way, as there is necessity of engineer, as there is necessity of medical man, as there is necessity of so many other departmental chiefs, similarly, a department of brāhmaṇa, a department of kṣatriya—that education must be given. But in this age, because nobody is interested, so everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Everyone, all over the world, they are being educated to seek after some good service. Paricarya: he must have a good master; then his education will be... He cannot act independently. So therefore in the śāstra it is said that everyone is anxious to get a good job, therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, in this age almost everyone is śūdra.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: If the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in a person who is born in a śūdra family, he should be accepted as brāhmaṇa. Similarly, if the quality of brāhmaṇa is found in śūdra or the śūdra quality found in brāhmaṇa, I mean to say birth, by caste, as it is going on now, so Nārada Muni has said... This is the statement of Nārada Muni, the greatest authority. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). So birth is not the final thing. If one is born in a brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family, he has got the facility to become quickly a brāhmaṇa; but if he has no quality, if he does not practice, then he is not to be accepted as brāhmaṇa. You may be a son of a high-court judge, but unless you have got the quality of high-court judge, it is not that because you are born of high-court judge you become a high-court judge. That is not, that is not the quality. The quality is... So therefore I say that there must be educational institution for training brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially. And vaiśyas, they do not require any academical area. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). They can learn simply by associating with another vaiśya. But brāhmaṇa, especially require education, Vedic literature. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. Kṣatriya also requires education. Others, they may not require education. Practical training. These things should be introduced. Then human society will be perfect. Not by birth, but by quality, by education, by training. But that is possible.
Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahāt remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American." "You feel always you are Hindu," "Feel always you are Muslim." Asad-graha. How there can be no anxiety? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. So asato mā sad gamaya. This is Vedic injunction. Don't remain on the asat platform. Come to the sat platform.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You have counted? Not yet. Counting? No.

Hari-śauri: I've got it listed. 182. 1-8-2. All their temples should be reorganized on the... People should come there for being educated. Temple means it is an educational center.

Commissioner: Educational center.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇas means they are teachers. Paṭhana-pāṭhana-yajana-yājana-dāna-pratigrahaḥ. So every temple should be educational center, and the brāhmaṇas should be engaged. They should be properly educated and they should teach others also. In this way, temple means education in spiritual life. And actually spiritual life is life. This material life, the bodily conception of life, is dead life. Aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. This nice shirt you have changed because there is life. When there is no life, who is going to change dress? The body is there, but why you are not interested in changing the dress? Better interest... The sooner the body is thrown away or burned, better. So similarly... (break) There is a proverb that a vulture goes very high, but his ambition is where is a dead body.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: The end is common. And we have found yesterday some of your śiṣyas had come. They're so happy. They said, "This is what the requirement is," and we accept him as a śiṣya.

Prabhupāda: Temple means a center, educational center, education. Give them prasāda. Bring. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Commissioner: And we have centers through Tirupati all over the country in our important centers, we have got some centers.

Prabhupāda: Now the thing is that, say, for Tirupati, it has got biggest income. But I understand that this income is being engaged for industrial purpose. But that, how to utilize in industrial purpose, that you do not know.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They'll suffer. They'll suffer. Those who are killing the children, they will be killed. They will enter into the mother's womb and they will be killed. They'll be punished. Tit for tat. That they do not know. This way or that way?

Indian man: This way. This way.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.

Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: About birth control. So birth control means the father and mother, the father and mother should not become father and mother unless they take full responsibility for the children to save them from the repetition of birth and death. This is the śāstric injunction. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The, everyone is, in this material world, is going on in the cycle of birth and death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Transmigrating from one body to another. And after many millions of years he gets the chance of becoming a human being. Now in this life he can stop the birth and death. Punar janma jāyate. That is Vedic culture. How to conquer over this process of repetition, birth and death. That is only possible in the human life. A chance is given, and if he misses this chance then again he'll be cycle... Therefore the father and mother's duty is to train up the children in such a way, that this is the last birth. No more birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And that training, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the things are different. Both the parents and the children, all of them are going again in the cycle of birth and death and wasting the opportunity of getting a human body. This is modern civilization. They do not know this science. They are kept in darkness. This is so-called education. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama (BG 7.25). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi... They do not know what is the destination of life. In darkness. There is no education practically. The modern education is how to eat nicely, how to sleep nicely, how to have sex nicely, how to defend nice. And that is the business of the animals. They know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, and how to defend.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: Because they are in darkness, all rascals, mūḍha. Nābhijānāti. They do not know anything. And they're puffed up by their false education, false knowledge. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. "Huh! I have no engagement." Vimūḍhātmā. Kartāham iti manyate. They do not know how nature's law is working. Do they not know?
Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: Misery of life is to be like this only. To live like this without the divine knowledge or without...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no birth, there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jāyate na mriyate vā. But these rascals never think "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Where is that education? They do not know what is miseries. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Kṛṣṇa pointing out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. So which way? Which way?

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of spiritual lesson. Because that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone of us, we are identifying with this body. Just like if somebody asks what you are, "I am Mr. such and such, I am Indian, I am this, I am that." He is giving identification of the body. But that he is not. He's not this body. That is self-realization. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)—two things—deha, this body, and asmin dehe, there is dehinaḥ, the owner of the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Because generally almost 99.9% people, they are thinking that I am this body.

Indian man: Well, that is true, that is...

Prabhupāda: So that is another thing.

Indian man: That attachment to the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That attachment or no attachment, he is different from the body. That is the first lesson of spiritual education, that one has to understand that he is not the body. That is Brahman realization.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Lodi dynasty there were family, Lodi dynasty.

Indian man: Yes, Lodi tomb.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Indian man: All the conferences here are educational.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Built by the Americans?

Indian man: Yes. Behind this is a fruit farmer's lot. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the tomb? Very big.

Harikeśa: I was just thinking that this was really a case of decoration of the dead body.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, see the Taj Mahal. That's thousand times better than this.

Prabhupāda: In the gate it is said that bicycle prohibited. (break) ...tomb was constructed before Taj Mahal. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And what they have done, the Communists?

Krishna Modi: They have not done anything. They should not do anything. It is not their duty.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...

Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Lokanātha: If they add the holy name to their lives, they will...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they could understand that. That will be helpful if you chant. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement will never be false. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually the dirty things accumulated within the heart will be cleansed. And if he comes to the understanding, clear idea, that "I want to eat something and my necessities... So if I get my necessities, primary necessities of life, and satisfaction of mind, then why shall I go to city?" That they can have very easily. If they follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your first necessity is food." So produce food here. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And you'll find here so much land is lying vacant. Because they have gone to the city for twenty rupees daily to manufacture Goodyear tire. And who will work here? Now I have seen in Delhi, the government is advertising, "Go back to the village." Rascal, you are manufacturing wine and keeping them engaged whole day in the work. So after being tired, he requires some wine. And why he'll go? And no spiritual education, no cleanliness. Simply inviting "Go to the village" they will go?

Lokanātha: Just a propaganda.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So they think speculative mind is the beginning of God consciousness. But śāstra says no, not the mind. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one is speculator, he will be on the material field. Asata. Asato mā sad gamaya. "Don't remain in the asat. Come to the reality." That reality begins from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā ādi, ādau. So give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and give them chance to taste prasāda. They'll be... That's all. Jihvādau. Utilize the tongue, primarily. And gradually everything will be...
ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ
sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam
(CC Antya 20.12)

So chant as much possible and eat prasādam. No education required, no philosophy required. But follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction and become guru.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That was their policy. Because there was one Britisher politician, Lord McCauley. His report was, he studied the whole Indian situation. They were very expert politicians. He reported that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them. They must be trained up in such a way that they would think their own culture as useless; this Western culture is very good. That impression must be there. Otherwise, you cannot rule over them." So the education and everything was going on very silently on this principle.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:
Prabhupāda: So the spiritual movement means to take up the spirit soul within the body and to elevate him from the conditioned life. That is spiritual movement. He has been put into condition. So that action can be taken without any hindrances. Without any impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. That verse I was speaking yesterday, that without any cause, without any impediments, the soul can be raised by the process. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind one is born in low class family, poor, ugly, uneducated family. It doesn't matter. But he can be raised. What is the process? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects.
Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is special advantage of this age. People are very much fallen from spiritual standard, and to fall down from the spiritual standard means to spoil the humanity. There is no education on this point. That is Vedic culture. Most of them, they do not believe that there is soul, spirit soul, and human life is meant for understanding it and make progress on that platform. Most of them, they do not know. There is no education, I think so. Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā, mostly, but they do not understand the first lesson. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. What is your understanding about this transmigration of the soul?

Indian man (1): We consider that man gets life after death according to his karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you believe on this?

Indian man (1): We have this belief.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Dr. Saligram?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Dr. Saligram Sukla.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: Education: he graduated from the University of Cambridge and a B.A. in classical languages 1962. Graduated from Cornell University, Ithaca, New York in Tibetan linguists and he has a Ph.D. in linguistics.

Prabhupāda: Cambridge?

Hari-śauri: He has several, he has several books out. He was born in India in a traditional brāhmaṇa family, he learned Sanskrit at the age of 10, and his knowledge of the Hindu scriptures written in Sanskrit is very profound. He has committed to memory the entire Bhagavad-Gītā scripture and one fourth of the Ṛg Veda. He himself is a worshiper of Kṛṣṇa. His teachings is a way of life and he is extremely competent to judge whether the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is authentic and bona fide.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-Sauri: People are being duped now into believing that advancement means simply to research. Not to actually find out anything valuable, but just to do some research. They think that that's the whole thing, education is just to research.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the European, you don't get the result, go on researching and spoil the money.

Devotee (2): Kṛṣṇa has manufactured everything in such a complicated way, that their search is never-ending.

Prabhupāda: That article written by Svarūpa Dāmodara in the recent Back to Godhead.

Hari-Sauri: That was not.... Oh, which one?

Prabhupāda: The recent this.

Hari-Sauri: The newest one? That was not by Svarūpa Dāmodara. That was by...

Prabhupāda: You have got?

Hari-Sauri: Dāmodara Dāsa and Jagjīvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Svarūpa Dāmodara is different. Oh.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Saligram Sukla.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America? Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is a learned scholar and he is influential man in educational circles. There are many Indians you'll find, they are...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can mobilise all the Indians, that's the best process.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar if the member... Respectable Indian businessmen they should say that this Kṛṣṇa cult is very, very old, genuine and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud, like that.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is... We are doing that. They are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money, and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.

Hari-śauri: Well, any form of education is indoctrination.

Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...

Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."

Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country, he's indoctrinated.

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.

Hari-śauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.

Prabhupāda: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?

Hari-śauri: Yes, hawker.

Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection, cow protection." He has written one book to take care of the cows. So one old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all give this book to your mother because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature. Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kāma-śāstra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year... 1940's maybe. So one young woman was traveling, and another young man was traveling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The modern education means... Just see what is the disastrous condition. For 531 posts, three lakhs people have applied. How the unemployment... This application means they are all educated. Uneducated, they do not apply for any post. That means educated unemployed. This is India's so-called education. Without light it is... You can open door. (break)

Jagadīśa: First thing, I wanted to go over the daily schedule. According to the schedule, the boys get up between 3:30 and quarter to four.

Prabhupāda: Why so early?

Jagadīśa: Why 3:30 and quarter to four? That's what time we all get up.

Prabhupāda: We are holding maṅgala-ārati at five. So why 3:30?

Jagadīśa: Well, they do japa before maṅgala-ārati.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It will be too early for them.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For feeding. Feeding. Give them sumptuous food so that they may become healthy, nice food. (laughter) Yes. That is also wanted. Children, they must eat sufficiently. Not overeat. Even overeat, that is not wrong for children. And that will be exercise, by going to Yamunā and coming? That will be bodily exercise. This is nice. Do that. Strictly follow. There is no scarcity of space there, yes. Vṛndāvana is holy place. And there is no government interference, so increase it. Bring more student from all over the world. Then it will be unique. And you also make scheme to get Indian children from aristocratic family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). Those who are born in high-class, rich family or brāhmaṇa family, they are not ordinary. But there is no brāhmaṇa family now. So at least the richer section, they can be induced to send their boys to learn Sanskrit and English and Bhagavad-bhakti. They can do business, and whatever they like, they can do later on. But these things, they should be... Father-mother should be careful. (Hindi conversation) ...just attract all good family children. (Hindi) ...working, they will have to live. They cannot. They cannot become paṇḍita or spiritually advanced men. They have to work. But if the richer section, they get their sons, good character, good devotee. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, ko 'tha putreṇa jātena yo na vidyā na bhaktimān: (?)"What is the use of such son who is neither devotee nor learned?" Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam.(?) What is the use of blind eyes? It is simply troublesome. So if the aristocratic family, they do not give education in spiritual line, they'll become all hippies, loafer, and drinking, and wasting father's money. They should be informed. (Hindi) (break) I think there must be three, four classes.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: Varṇa-saṅkara.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Some of them are kṣatriyas and some of them... Like that. But that is not essential. That is all gone. Now, if one cannot take education, he can be used in farm work, a little hard work.

Jagadīśa: (name withheld) is another problem.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: (name withheld), (name withheld)'s boy. He is only eight, but he is becoming like a street boy.

Prabhupāda: So let him go to farm working. Farm working is for suitable...

Bhagatji: He likes that. He'll play with cows. He likes dung.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jagadīśa: He likes dung.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Let him take care. He should take care. Therefore we must have all these engagement. He'll be encouraged to take care of the cows.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If the father takes care, that's all right. Otherwise he can go to Hyderabad. Hyderabad should be for gṛhasthas, for plowing, for growing, and flowers, like that. No education required.

Bhagatji: He is not interested in education, not at all.

Prabhupāda: No, no education... That is waste of... For such boys who are not interested, why they should be enforced, education? They are not meant for that. Education is for higher brain, sober brain. And not that everyone has to become literate. It is not required. He can do other work. Yes.

Bhagatji: Prabhupāda means that according to the nature, you engage them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. "You can do this? All right, do it. Why you should be forced to learn Sanskrit? Not necessary. Not necessary."

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: Head, arms, belly, and legs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whichever suitable, that... One must be suitable for any of these. It is the guide's intelligence: for which purpose he is suitable engage him, like that. That is required, not that everyone has to become a big scholar in Sanskrit. That is not required. Let him come to gurukula, but if he is not suitable... Gurukula, this... So far character is con..., that is for everyone. Just like early rise in the morning, chanting, and going to the... What is the objection? Anyone can do it. That is practice. And for working, if he is not suitable for higher education, let him go to the farm, take care of the cows and grow food, flowers, fruits, eat, and dance and chant. Chanting, dancing, everyone will take part. There is no doubt.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let them come. And arrangement should be made when it is... If Vṛndāvana is too hot, at that time we can send them to Mahabalesvara, or if we get that Madras place, that is very cooling, Nilgiri hills. That will be good recreation for them. They should be kept quite comfortably and built up, their character, education. That is wanted. There is need of some good first-class men, ideal men. The world is full of rogues and thieves and bad character. (Hindi)

Bhagatji: I just told you that building, that Śiśu-vidyālaya(?), Sarasvatī Śiśu-vidyālaya, you saw it with Guṇārṇava?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Bhagatji: Prabhupāda asks about that.

Jagadīśa: Oh. But they said no.

Bhagatji: Who said?

Jagadīśa: Guṇārṇava went to see them, Mr. what's his name.

Prabhupāda: You cannot send Guṇārṇava. He is not fit for this purpose. You should go yourself.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Do you basically reject the modern civilization?

Prabhupāda: No, no. I say they are being foolishly trained.

Dr. Kneupper: I see.

Prabhupāda: The whole education system is bad.

Dr. Kneupper: You see no hope that there will be change.

Prabhupāda: There is hope. There is cent percent hope, provided you accept the right way.

Dr. Kneupper: But would you say the right way would have to be, let's say, to be a follower of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: God means Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Kneupper: What about...? As I understand, in the Gītā...

Prabhupāda: God... Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So God must be all-attractive, full controller.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So this is our position. Now you are philosophers. You try to understand the whole philosophy and combine together. People have become all fourth-class, tenth-class, uncivilized men. They should be given the idea of God consciousness. I don't say only in Western country. Everywhere this is the problem, all fourth-class men. So there is possibility to bring the fourth-class men to the first-class. That is educational. It can be done. There is no difficulty. So this is the education, how to make fourth-class men or fifth-class men to come to the first-class standard. What is that? Which verse I wanted?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That requires thinking. That requires knowledge. Therefore we are giving so many books. You can study. You can present the case nicely with argument, philosophy. That is your duty. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānu... When you are able to describe God very philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, then your education is perfect.

Dr. Kneupper: Are there any books particularly that focus on all this?

Prabhupāda: Every... There are so many books. There are so many books. The primary book is the Bhagavad-gītā, yes, as it is, if you take it as it is. If you amend it to your whimsical way, then it is gone. Therefore we are presenting. This word we have added, "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." Don't try to amend it. Then it will be foolishness.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That should be educated from the very beginning. Therefore we are opening gurukula, sane brain. Otherwise their brain is spoiled by so-called bad education. I inquired from your state secretary that "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so why not spread this God consciousness—what is God? You blindly say, 'God in Trust,' but what is God? Do you know? So why not spread this science?" I received no reply up to date. They might have said, "Here is a crazy fellow. Nobody has inquired like this." That's all. They do not like to enter into the controversy. Actually they do not believe in God, but they write, "In God We Trust," is it not?

Dr. Kneupper: That's what they write.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: ...said to me and (indistinct) this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I recited also (indistinct). It is the real utilization of every education.

Dr. Kneupper: Right. But the Bhagavad-gītā is very wonder... It's... Since I first read it it's been one of my favorite...

Prabhupāda: You are reading?

Dr. Kneupper: Yes, I... I try to read it frequently, because it gives me some real spiritual...

Prabhupāda: And if you want to know further, you can write to me.

Dr. Kneupper: Good. I'll take back your blessing to Slippery Rock when I go back there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and there, so many old friends, you can offer them.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: Yes, shall I call him?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: He wrote me a letter. He met one of our travelling parties and he heard that I was here and he was interested to, in our educational program. So I invited him to come here, perhaps to teach Hindi, and so he's here.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, this is some honey, this is from my wife. And this is from Viśakha, Yadubara's wife from Los Angeles. She asked us to... And this is from all the devotees in San Diego, this is ghee.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: Cow ghee?

Devotee: Yes. They heard that you were in need of some ghee, so they have... (indistinct) (pause)

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are supposed to be very learned but actually they're fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.

Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.

Prabhupāda: He does not know. We have got the definition of God,

aiśvaryasya samāgrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
ṣaṇṇaṁ bhāga itiṅgaṇa
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband, that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best solution is to go back home, back to Godhead.

Jagadīśa: We have to convince them that they have problems because they think that they're enjoying.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Therefore they require education.

Jagadīśa: They don't know the real standard of enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: How they can know? There is no understanding. Mūḍha. (pause) To solve all these problems, therefore, there must be a class of men, brāhmaṇas. Not a class, a section of people must become brāhmaṇas. And all other sections should consult them and live as kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras. Then? It is finished now? No.

Jagadīśa: Well, we've solved all the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: We've solved all the problems. Now we want to convince this Vinoda Bhave to support us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So can you see what is the position, my quarters?

Hari-śauri: Well, Mūrti said your side is fit for moving into.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa. What is this? How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? They have given up bad habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.
Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Do you think that is scientific proposal?

Indian man: They say.

Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?

Indian man: Not the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: When the disciple is ready, the master comes. When the disciple is ready the master appears, comes, comes. It is not that the disciple has to search for the master. The master is also to search after the disciples.

Prabhupāda: Well, it is just like there is a school. The school is also advertising that you come here, you will get education. And one who is in need of education, he is also trying to come to school. So the school must be bona fide and the student must be bona fide. Then things will come at. If the school is bogus, then what the student will learn? They will not learn.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: Such a supreme knowledge is there from our superior authorities. This knowledge is, we are not even able to follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Therefore people are coming out like cats and dogs. But here is Bhagavad-gītā. If you are guided by Bhagavad-gītā, then it is all right. But this question, next question you'll say that "How I can save?" That is answered in Bhagavad-gītā. How you can save? Now you say. You tell me what is that verse. How you can save your child from death?

Indian man: By realizing, by giving an education.

Prabhupāda: No, you try to quote the verse, what is the way.

Indian man: (laughing) I am a small fly before yourself. You are the ocean. I am a drop.

Prabhupāda: No. You are not fly, you are experienced. Therefore I am trying to explain. Find out this verse. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Punar janma naiti. That is continuation of life. Tyaktvā, everyone has to give up this body. And one who gives up this body but does not accept another material body, he has no more birth and death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.

Guest (2): That's true.

Prabhupāda: They wanted that the... That is cooperation. That is one of the Gandhi's understanding, that "These people are ruling over us by our cooperation. Therefore let us noncooperate and they'll fail. They'll not be able to rule."

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: By month, it will be done. The gurukula downstairs will be ready.

Hari-śauri: There must be some rooms suitable by a month.

Prabhupāda: If not, for the temporary you can hold somewhere. That doesn't matter. But the system will be this education will be given in the gurukula building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Now, we're also going to do this in Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda because...

Prabhupāda: But first of all, you make one successful here. Then you think of other.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But now we should not teach them any exercise at all?

Prabhupāda: This is exercise. If he sits down two hours like that, it is more than exercise.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...free. Free education, why they'll not accept?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Free education they will.

Prabhupāda: It is free.

Guest (1): It is free education.

Prabhupāda: It is free. We are asking people come here, live here, take this education.

Guest (1): Nobody pays anything.

Prabhupāda: It is free. Everything is free. We are not going to charge anything. Retired man, come here, take this spiritual education. This is our whole system. Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

Room Conversation -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa eva ayam yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. "Therefore I am saying you again, the old yoga system. It is not that because the time has changed, I am changing." Somebody says, "Now it was spoken some millions of years ago, now it is modern ways, I am explaining in the modern way." That is not the system. The system is I am speaking the same yoga system. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. And they are modernizing, making compromise. That is naṣṭa. That is the defect. Therefore we did not get any benefit. And in the modern countries, before me, so many yogis, swamis have been there for the last two hundred years. Not a single person became a Hindu. Now they are calling (them) "American Hindus." Why? Because it was lost. Rotten thing was given. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. If you supply something to me which is rotten and decomposed, such foodstuff, what shall I get benefit? Now they are getting benefit. Our mission is to put Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Everyone of you become a guru and deliver these persons, these fallen conditioned souls. That is your business. Now you can say, or I can say that how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no talent. How can I become guru? The answer is yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru. So we are doing like that. We haven't got to manufacture. We haven't got to take so much trouble or create it by our fertile brain. We are simply repeating what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And see how it is effective.

Page Title:Education (Conversations 1976)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:14 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=252, Let=0
No. of Quotes:252