Durga (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Ambika" |"Bhavani" |"Durga" |"Katyayani" |"Parvati" |"Uma"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I've been through Birbhum, yes. Navadvīpa also.

Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar. Now we are on the Ganges side. You can chant the glorification of mother Ganges. She may hear and enjoy." So he was very learned scholar. Immediately he composed hundred verses, one hundred. And fluent, very fluently he went on. Then, out of that one hundred verses, in the sixty-fourth verse there was some poetic discrepancies. The word was bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava. Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Lord Brahmā is called Aja, and Lord Śiva is called Bhava. Bhava means "from whom everything is born." Lord Śiva is the father of this Bhava. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "In the sixty-fourth verse you have stated, bhavānī-bhārtā. Bhavānī means the husband of... Bhavānī means the wife of Bhava, Lord Śiva. So it is known that she has husband. Then why you say bhārtā, again 'husband'?" He was learned scholar. He could understand, "Yes." Dvir-ukti-dośa. This is called dvir-ukti-dośa, repeating twice one thing. Dvir-ukti-dośa. That is dośa. Dośa means fault.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: One scene you have to show that in the Ganges water people are taking bath, and there is on the sky beginning of the moon eclipse, lunar eclipse. And they are all chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and taking bath. And exactly at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared. This is one scene. And the appearance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu should be underneath a tree. Under this scene, this scene, one... Advaita Prabhu's wife, Śrīvāsa's wife, they were elderly, and all other women of the village, they immediately came with presentation. And some of the demigods, they also came, I mean to say, disguising themselves as ordinary men, with presentation. And His father got so many valuable presentations. And then again, some of the professional dancers, they came. So he distributed charity to them. In this way, that function... Try to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was Nārada there? Did Nārada Muni come?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nārada Muni also came. You can show that. Yes. all the devatas, all the demigods came. Nārada Muni, Brahmā, Śiva. They came in disguise, and their wife, Savitri, and then Umā. Umā is the wife of Lord Śiva. In that way you can show so many demigods and their wives coming. Yes.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also there is a story in the Bhāgavatam about the girls; they were offering to Lord Śiva.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another feature of Lord Caitanya. He taught in that instruction that there is no need of worshiping demigods. The incident is that in India the unmarried girls, they are encouraged to worship Lord Śiva especially in the month of Vaiśākha, March-April. And they will go to the Ganges side and prepare Śivaliṅga, and they'll... That means Śiva will be pleased upon them to offer a husband like Lord Śiva. Śiva is very peaceful and very great devotee and most powerful at the same time. So that is the ideal husband. So they brought worshipable paraphernalia for worshiping Śiva on the bank of the Ganges, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Śiva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Śiva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately." By this, He wanted to instruct that worshiping the Supreme Lord is the appeasement of other demigods. You don't require to appease them separately. This instruction. Then some girls will hesitate. Then He will curse them that "You'll be married with an old man having seven children by his former wife." So they will be afraid, "Oh, maybe this boy is cursing..." Then out of fear they'll offer. Then He said, "Oh, you'll have a very nice young husband and you'll have seven children by him." In this way it was going on.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Śiva, or... (Hindi) Strictly, if you take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, why Bhagavān says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My feet?" That means to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is the only religion. (Hindi) Practically that was against Hindu conception. (Hindi) We are not talking of God, (Hindi) we are talking of love. Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God. (break) (Hindi) Bahut easy process hai. You come, sing, dance, and take prasādam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasādam, so what can be the more convenient way? (Hindi) You are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. (Hindi) He has no right because he does not know what is name. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. (Hindi) Yes. Because you are responsible, if you cut throat of a goat, then you'll be responsible. Just like in your jurist(?) law, if you commit murder—you are lawyer—you have to be hanged. So, (Hindi) "...life for life." So I am killing one life. I shall not be liable to repay by my life.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

(more devotees enter) Come on. How is Govinda dāsī?

Devotee (3): She is improving.

Prabhupāda: Anyone shall (indistinct). (more devotees enter) Come on. Śyāmasundara inaugurated this Ratha-yātrā here. You know? I advised him to perform Ratha-yātrā on a motorcar, and that was the first Ratha-yātrā. Then gradually it came to cart, now it is three. It is very nice. We are improving. More improve, more and more. Your prasādam this year, I think it is not sufficiently distributed. Why?

Makhanlal: Not sufficient amount, you mean?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Makhanlal: Not sufficient menu?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Guest: Not? Then, sir, there is Rāma and there is Kṛṣṇa. You have Hare Rāma Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Rāma is Hari. Kṛṣṇa is considered Hari. So when you...

Prabhupāda: So Rāma... Bhagavān has different forms: rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Bhagavān (Hindi).

Guest: That's good. So that explains...

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. That is called Viṣṇu-tattva.

Guest: In that expansion can't we take Durgā and Siva, even for...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is śakti-tattva. We have to take expansion according to the tattva. Substance and categories; in which category. The substance is Viṣṇu, and all other tattvas are categories. So devatās, they are śakti-tattva, śakti category, the same category as you are. The same example. Just like here a government officer, he is also Indian gentleman, you are also Indian gentleman, but he has got his power on account of his high qualities. Similarly you can become also Durgā. You can become Indra, Candra, Sūrya. So qualitatively the ant, you are a learned brāhmaṇa, they are all the same category.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Guest: Then what is Rādhā category?

Prabhupāda: The same śakti. Cit-śakti. Bhagavān ke pleasure potency. Śakti, śakti-tattva. So Śaktimān. Bhagavān is Śaktimān, and that śakti is Rādhārāṇī or Sītā or Lakṣmī. Durgā is also śakti, another feature of Rādhārāṇī.

Guest: Śakti in original is Rādhā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Parāsya śaktih..., parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). (Hindi) Originally cit-śakti. That cit-śakti is expanding. Just like we are..., rāmādi mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Kalā means part and parcel. So we are also part and parcel, but we are very small part and parcel. But rāmādi mūrti, they are bigger part and parcel. Just like if you throw one brick on the floor, so there will be so many small particles, big particles, this particle, that. They are all part and parcel of the brick, but one part very small atomic part, and one big part, this part, this part, then this part, then this part. So all, Kṛṣṇa is the origin, and everyone is part and parcel. Some of them are bigger and some of them are smaller. So Viṣṇu-tattva is almost like Kṛṣṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Yadubara: They say Chinese are very practical and that they will make use of anything.

Prabhupāda: They eat man also. Yes. There was a case in Calcutta, they were eating man. They will call a hawker, "Come in, I shall purchase." And as soon as he enters, he never comes back. There were two hawkers. So one entered the house and other was waiting. But when he saw that he is not coming, he went to the police, that "My friend, he went but he is not coming." The police inquired and made a search, whole house, there were so many human bones, they're eating. Man-eater. Man-eater, in Africa there are many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're called cannibals.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're called cannibals.

Prabhupāda: That is also. And they eat white man very... They like white.

Yadubara: In the pot.

Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?

Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian. You cannot imitate powerful man. That is wrong. Just like in our Vedic literature there was a poison ocean. So what.... People became puzzled what to do with this—this demigod. Then Lord Śiva said, "All right. I'll drink it." So he drank the whole poison ocean and kept it in his throat, nīlakaṇṭha. Now, you drink poison? Not the ocean. You drink one cup. So how you can imitate Lord Śiva? Lord Śiva never advised that we drink poison. So you have to abide by the advice, not by imitating, "Oh, Lord Śiva..." Just like this LSD and marijuana, they say sometimes, "Lord Śiva used to smoke gāñjā." They say like that. But Lord Śiva drank the whole poison ocean. Can you do that? Lord Śiva's instruction should be taken. He says, "The best worship is to worship Viṣṇu," viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. When Śiva was asked by Pārvatī that "What method of worship is first-class?" Then he said, "The first-class worship is worshiping Lord Viṣṇu." Viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānām ārādhanam. He said the Viṣṇu worship is the best. There are many demigods, but he recommended, "Viṣṇu worship is the best." And the better than Viṣṇu worship is to worship Vaiṣṇava. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Tadīyā means His servant, or one who is, or what is in relationship with Him. Just like we are worshiping this plant, Tulasī. We are not worshiping all plants, but because this Tulasī has very intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, therefore we are worshiping. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Similarly, anything who is intimately related with Kṛṣṇa, worship of that thing is better than worship of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All sorts of deception. Even Vaikuṇṭha. Paravyome (Bengali) And the calculation, even they, the self is, a sort of calculation comes between the, the servitor and the object of service, then also it throws us down. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that sort of calculation is also absurd. Where there is love, there cannot be any calculation. It is autonomous. Autonomous anurāga. Cultivate, do. No sort of calculation of any benefit. The calculation disturbs autonomy.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa-hari-dhāma... (Bs. 5.43). (Bengali) About our temple contemplation, it will be almost a skyscraper building.

Bhavānanda: Will be.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Skyscraper building in temple shape, with four divisions. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa... (Bs. 5.43). So Maheśa-dhāma, how it will be depicted? Pārvatī-wise. (?)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It has been already described by Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛtam. After crossing Brahmaloka,

Prabhupāda: There is Maheśa-dhāma, in between.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (7): Purposeful, knowing that, knowingly that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord and Supreme Authority, even then, if they ignore it...

Prabhupāda: No. Knowingly means that every Indian knows that Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At least... The every Indian, at least Hindus, they perform Janmāṣṭamī, accepting Kṛṣṇa. But still, they will not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality. They'll bring many other competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be...? I have got Durgā. I have got this, Śiva. I have got that. I have got that. I have got that." This is going on as Hinduism. So many gods. So many gods. Although the Vedic literature says, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). In Bhagavad-gītā... Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā it says, Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "Everything is emanation from Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). These things are there, but they'll not accept. Therefore they are offenders. Otherwise where is the difficulty? God is one. That is accepted. Eko brahma. God cannot be two. God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām ekaḥ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). One nitya, one eternal, one living being..., that is Supreme. We are living being. We are also nitya, eternal. But he is nityo nityānām. He is the chief of the nityas. He's the chief of the living entities. So that is chief. Kṛṣṇa personally says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior living being than Me." So these things are there in the Vedas. And they are supposed to be Vedic scholars, but they do not know the simple thing. So in that way they are ignorant. They read the Vedic literatures, but they do not understand, or they misinterpret in a different way for their own purpose. So they are, they're offender. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this situation, that "God is impersonal, and, everyone can become God, or everyone is God." This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this havoc. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they cannot make any progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That difficulty is there—offenders. And later on, there are so many institutions. They say that "You can create your God. You can become God." That is going on. "Whatever you think as God, that is God." So how one can make progress under these circumstances? One gentleman was arguing with me... He was supporting Rama-Krishna Mission. He said, "Even stool I consider God. It is God." (laughter) He came to this point. "If I worship stool as God, then it is also God."

Room Conversation with Guest -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest: But many times Swami Vivekananda himself went to temples and bowed down before Kālī, before Śrī Kṛṣṇa, before Śrī Bhavānī, and many other temples. He went to Kanyā-kumārī and prayed before Mother.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Distribute the prasāda. Bhagavān ka prasāda. Hm. That's all. So it is a great pleasure for us. Your Holiness visits us voluntarily. Although I could not invite you, but still, you are so kind, you came. So I am doing my bit, following in the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Guru-gaurāṅga: Prabhupāda said that Jawaharlal Nehru, the former prime minister of India, someone has said now he is a house dog in a home in Sweden.

Anna Conan Doyle: I hope not for him.

Prabhupāda: You may not, but nature is different. Just like a child does not hope that if he puts his finger in a fire, it will not burn. But nature is so strict, it doesn't care for the child or the old man. It will burn. I may prove very innocent, but nature doesn't care for that. Nature doesn't care for that. Nature will not show any mercy for the innocent child. No. That is nature. Is it not fact? If a child puts his finger on the fire, nature will not consider that: "Here is a innocent child. He may not be burned." No. Equally. Therefore nature is very strong. We cannot avoid the control of the nature. If you do something, it must acting, react in the same way. The same... If you put your finger in the fire, it must react, burn it. Nature is so strong. So as soon as you violate any law of nature, you'll be punished. That is... Just like God... State police is there, engaged by the government. As soon as you violate law, the police will arrest you and give you punishment. Similarly material nature means the police of God. As soon as you violate God laws, it will give immediately punishment. That is material nature. It is always punishing us. Because we are, one after another, we are violating the laws of God. Therefore she's always punishing. That is her business. Mother nature is described as Goddess Durgā, and she has got a trident in her hand. That is punishment. Three kinds of miserable condition. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Adhyātmika, pertaining to the body and mind, adhibhautika, miserable condition offered by others, and adhidaivika, miserable condition offered by higher authorities. Just like if there is no rain, you cannot do anything. Your so-called science and advancement of knowledge will not be able to help. Or if there is over flood. That also you cannot do anything. Therefore you have to accept there is a controller of this raining. It is not under my control. That is nature. But nature is working under the direction of God. Behind the background of nature is God. Just like background of police force is the government. Similarly, background of the stringent laws of nature is God. That they do not understand. They're struggling with the natural laws. And that struggle they are taking as advancement. That's all. It is a struggle. But they're taking it as advancement. This is called illusion. It is not advancement. It is simply struggle. But they're taking it as advancement. Such a great, powerful man like Napoleon, Hitler, they struggled only. Later on, they vanquished. So what to speak of others? Such big, big men, they struggled against the nature, but they vanquished. Nature is there. Nature is always victorious. So we have to own over victory over the nature. That is only possible if you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, not. Do you think we are right in our statement.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): That some people worship gods.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Guest (2): Some people who are strictly Śaivites.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice.

Guest (2): No, No. But then what is the connection then between Kṛṣṇa and Śiva?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa and Śiva, just like dahi and dudha. Dahi is nothing but dudha, but still it is not dudha.

Guest (2): It's a a different form.

Prabhupāda: Not different form, different action also. If you want milk, if I give you dahi, and if I say, "Oh dahi and dudha, the same thing. Why you are not accepting this dahi?", will you accept?

Guest (2): Correct.

Prabhupāda: Although the same thing, but action is different. If you become devotee of Lord Śiva, you'll get opportunity of material opulences. Because Lord Śiva is the husband of Durgā, and Durgā is the superintendent of this material world. So Durgā is under control. If one becomes a devotee of Lord Śiva, then Durgā gives him, eh? Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavatī-bhāryāṁ dehi yaśo dehi. So you'll get all this, nice position, nice wife, nice power, famous... All this material, not spiritual. So to worship any other demigod than Kṛṣṇa is materialism. That is not spiritualism.

Guest (1): Worshiping Viṣṇu is also material?

Prabhupāda: No. Viṣṇu is not. Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu the same, expansion. That you have to understand.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: And also, if nature made a mistake, then how could nature supply the necessities of all the living entities? After all...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no mistake. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). It is said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. Under the supervision of Kṛṣṇa, God, nature is working. How there can be mistake? In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). This nature is working just like shadow. Real direction is from God. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā. By His will, nature is working. So how He can be mistaken? Nature is working under the will of God; so how there can be mistake in the part of God? There is no mistake.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Sudāmā: In Japan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a cherry tree that usually in the springtime it gives off flowers. So about three, two years ago, in the middle of winter, this tree gave off all flowers. All the scientists, everyone was running. "It is not time. It is not time. It is not the season. Why is it giving the flowers?"

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best education, scientific advancement, is to recognize God behind everything. That is perfection. We are canvassing, "Accept God, accept God." But if the modern scientist, philosopher, they present, "Yes, here is God," by calculation, then people will take it more seriously. "Oh, the scientist is saying." That is wanted. We are fighting with the scientists and others because they do not accept God. That is their fault. Otherwise, they are friends. They are giving more stress on the physical laws, nature, but they do not know under whose indication the physical laws are working, the nature is working. That they do not know. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is the... In Vedic literatures it is said, chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. The nature is working just like shadow, shadow of God. Just like master says, "Go there." Immediately the servant goes there. The servant is not independent. by the indication of the master, goes there. So that is nature. And because the arrangement is so perfect... Just like you said, "Out of season, the flowers came out." So they cannot explain. The arrangement is so perfect that God desired, "Now there, let be these flowers," and nature immediately produces. The arrangement is so perfect that these people, they cannot understand. They become amazed, "How it happened?"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Kṛṣṇa. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Kṛṣṇa. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied that "My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right." That is... (laughter) So Gaṇapati is also devotee. So Gaṇapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopīs, they worshiped Goddess Durgā, Kātyāyanī. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that Mother Kātyāyanī, give us the opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as our husband." The aim is Kṛṣṇa. Generally, they go to worship Devī Durgā for asking material benefit. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi yaśo dehi, the things which we want in material... But the gopīs, they do not go for any material things. For Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Gaṇapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, "Please give us Kṛṣṇa." Then it is correct.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But if it is right for them, why not have films in every house and grow your food also? That is not possible every time on the way. You have got to have a... This is a highly developed society. So you have got to...

Prabhupāda: And because now it is developed, it is so developed that there is no food. It is so developed that there is no food. One devotee of Goddess Durgā, he was a worshiper of Goddess Durgā. So Mother Durgā was asking, "My dear son, you are happy?" "Oh Mother! In all respects. Except in two things: there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. Otherwise I am very happy."

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Four principles essential. Essential. But only the śūdras or the kṣatriyas... Just like kṣatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also. If he likes, he can eat also.

Hṛdayānanda: What he kills.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kṣatriyas, they can, they're allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhīma, Bhīma also eating sometimes meat. Bhīma. Amongst the Pāṇḍavas, only Bhīma. Not others. So if the kṣatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the śūdras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the caṇḍālas.

Hṛdayānanda: But never the cow.

Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I promise you I won't. Because you are trying to choke me.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not... We should have discussion. That is nice.

Dr. Patel: Shall we?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Under your command?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: All right. Mayādhyakṣeṇa...

Prabhupāda:

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

Dr. Patel: That means...?

Prabhupāda: "Because of My direction." Hetunānena. "On this account." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My Supreme control." Just like these boys and girls, my students, they are working under my direction. They are individuals, I am also individual. And they have got their independence, to obey or not to obey, but still, they are directed under my supervision. Similarly, this material nature has got individual power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). But still, yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate sā. That material nature is working under the direction of the Supreme Person. Therefore govindam ādi-puruṣam. (Hindi)

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...as you worship Durgā, then you have to sacrifice goat.

Indian man (4): Ah?

Prabhupāda: As soon as you worship Durgā...

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Whatever.

Indian man (4): Durgā, Śiva, Gaṇapati one family.

Prabhupāda: So as soon as you worship Durgā you have to follow the rules, you have to make goat sacrifice...

Indian man (4): No, no, no. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is recommended. In the Bhāgavata it is recommended, that when Kṛṣṇa is asking for Devī to go take birth in the womb of Yaśodā, Kṛṣṇa is inducing that He'll get so many sacrifices. Yes. So that is the (Sanskrit), animal sacrifice.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (reads next verse, 22 in Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: Now he is describing who are offering prayers. All the big, big demigods, surāsaṅgha, they are respectfully offering. And they cannot be equal. The Māyāvādī says, "All the demigods, you chant, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Kālī Kṛṣṇa or Durgā Kṛṣṇa, this is all the same."

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in you under many influences, I think.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Under many influences.

Prabhupāda: No, influence should be only Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all these?" (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Śaṅkara. The pañcopāsanā. But still Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no superior form or authority than Me." That is confirmed by Lord Brahmā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is controller. There are different grades of controller but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, "Unto Me, no one else." Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince people to give Him our attention, therefore we have published so many books only about Kṛṣṇa. On every page you'll find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Either in Kṛṣṇa Book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, or in the Bhāgavatam or in Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. The word(?) is Kṛṣṇa, that is simply explained in the (indistinct).

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: You have said in one of your tapes, "They want to start half way." Like they say, "All of a sudden there is an aeroplane, appeared in the sky." They do not trace out where that aeroplane is coming from. So similarly, they are interested in the problems of today, but they do not want to delve into the essential problem. They are talking about building nice houses, using this, that. They do not want to delve into...

Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44). Now the conclusion. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā: "She is working not independently, according to the desire of somebody else." Who is that somebody? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "That is Govinda. I am worshiping Him." And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- August 5, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They think that, that by gratifying senses... Therefore they are having the same sex at home, again going to the naked dance. They think, "This thing will be able to give me happiness." But that is not giving, actually. Then they become mad.

Brahmānanda: Chewing the chewed.

Prabhupāda: Chewing the chewed, that's all. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They do not know. That is the mistake of the whole civilization. They do not know what is the necessity. They are manufacturing, durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ. By adjustment of this external energy they are trying. You'll see the whole world, especially in the western world, they do not know what is the necessity. Here at least there are śāstras, there are gurus, people at least taking, still, although it is dead now. But in the western world they do not know at all. Their only happiness is this sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). Itching. Itching sensation. More and more itching and the itches are increasing. Kaṇḍūyanena... They examples are given very nice. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Karayoḥ means hands. There is itching sensation, like this, like this, like this. And the itching disease is increasing. So therefore it is advised that tṛpyanti neha kṛpanā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. By itching, by satisfying the senses, itching sensation, then troubles and miserable condition increasing. That they do not know. Increasing. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Bahu means much, duḥkha means miserable condition. Therefore one who is sensible: kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. The dhīra, one (who) is sober, he understands, "What I am doing? I am simply trying to eat and the disease is increasing. Therefore it must be stopped." This is called dhīra. That is called dhīra. That is, one word is used, dhīra, in Kumāra-sambhava. That Pārvatī was induced. Lord Śiva was in meditation, and the necessity was that Kārttikeya... Kārttikeya means, "With the semina of Lord Śiva and Pārvatī's, what is called? Semen, they mix together, the child will be born. He can kill these demons." Therefore Kārttik... So Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation. So Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. That... Therefore they introduced this, Śiva-liṅga is worshiped. Śiva-liṅga. So when she was worshiping, a young girl touching the genital, but he was sitting without any disturbance. Therefore he has been described, dhīra. Dhīra. One who is not disturbed by the sex impulse even in the presence of very beautiful young girl, he is called dhīra. So kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One has to become dhīra. That is wanted. Just like Haridāsa, Ṭhākura. Twice he was induced by very beautiful young girl at dead of night. But he remained... "Yes, I'll satisfy you." He turned... That is called dhīra. There is another place. The dhīra word is used in the Bhagavad-gītā.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in the world under many influences, I think...

Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior form or superior authority than Me." And that is confirmed by Lord Brahmā. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ means controller. There are different grades of controller, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam: "Unto Me alone."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: They accept as supreme power.

Prabhupāda: No, supreme power must be that... Behind the power there must be powerful.

Guest: They say powerful but what about...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then we have to know this powerful, not only the power. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). In another place, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā is power. Power is in... What kind of power? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. She can create, she can maintain and she can destroy, so powerful. But this power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva (Bs. 5.44), is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow. I am moving this hand; the shadow is moving. Shadow is not independently moving. Therefore this gigantic power, material energy, is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "under My superintendence." So we are allured with the power, but who is manipulating this power we do not know. That is God.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that "I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste." What do you think?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Romaharṣaṇa. (break) ...basic principle of Vedic civlization. They did not... Vyāsadeva, such a learned scholar, he was sitting in a cottage. Lord Śiva, such a big powerful, and the whole material energy, Parvati, is his wife—he is sitting under a tree.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore a sannyāsī is always moving around, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya. That is required. That is civilization. Vairāgya and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya, knowledge and renunciation, or detachment, this is the goal of human life. Because he is attached to this material world, he has to take birth after birth, birth after birth. So to save this botheration, one has to be detached. This is the basic principle of Vedic civilization, jñāna-vairāgya. And detachment is possible when one is in full knowledge, jñāna. And this bhakti-yoga process is detachment. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So it is a civilization of detachment, not attachment.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: But there are some worshipers of Śiva who would be personalists.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Hopkins: You would deny that.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The impersonalist theory is that I am now devotee. As soon as I become perfect I become one."

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, Prabhupāda, just one month ago I read a book in Swedish, and they actually say there's three cases in Sweden where children were born without a father.

Prabhupāda: All right, let him satisfy there. But we have no such experience. We cannot accept his theory. He may be a single man to believe that. But no sane man will believe that. But we have got this answer. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Prakṛtiḥ, nature, is working under My direction." In the Brahma-saṁhitā: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvana vibharti... (Bs. 5.44). bhuvanāni durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Icchānurūpam. The nature is working under the direction of God, Govinda.

Morning Walk -- July 31, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: ...very hot place. So every year I used to resolute, "Now I shall give up this place," every year. So I was going Kashmir, Darjeeling. Bhavani, that is near Nainital. (break)

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Trivikrama: The mind is cheating us.

Prabhupāda: Certainly he'll cheat. If you cannot control, it will cheat. Mind is the friend, and mind is the enemy. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then mind is friend. And if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, mind is enemy. māyā is also. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then she is Rādhārāṇī. And if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, she is Durga.

Dhanañjaya: So all these cheaters are māyā's agents.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are agent of Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama māyā: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14).

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...devatā bhaktāḥ, te 'pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-purvakam. They give examples, as the gopīs worshiped Kātyāyanī. But that is not avidhi. They went to Kātyāyanī for getting the favor of Kṛṣṇa. They prayed to mother Kātyāyanī, "Please be favorable to us so that Kṛṣṇa may be pleased upon us." Others go to beg from Kātyāyanī some material benefits, but the gopīs, they did not ask for any material benefit. And therefore that is vidhi.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Indian man: Well, it's very similar to our movement, you know, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: But Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is different in this sense, that we have got Kṛṣṇa. Do they have Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man: Well, only thing I could tell you, they teach us to pray to Kālī, Durgā, Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then it is finished. Divine life is finished.

Indian man: But, you see, at that time there was nothing else for us, Swamijī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man: We had to follow something, and I didn't hear of you that time. This was in 1966, you know. It was quite a long time, and, well, I only came to...

Prabhupāda: They are teaching like that.

Indian man: There was only the Divine Life Society as far as I heard that time, you know. There was nobody else to follow, and our surrender was, surrendered ourselves to him, you see?

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā... You read Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man: Yes, I have read our...

Prabhupāda: Do you know what Kṛṣṇa has said?

Indian man: Well, surrender to Him alone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this Kālī, Durgā, and other demigods' worshipers, they have been described as lost of intelligence. That means fools.

Indian man: Fools. Those who worship them. Yes. But he also told us we must worship Kṛṣṇa too, you see.

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa is to be worshiped—He is the Supreme Lord.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām (SB 1.4.25). It is meant for less intelligent class of men: stri, woman; śūdra; and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu means persons who are born in high family but they have no education. Just like a man born in brāhmaṇa family...

Dr. Patel: Brahma-bandhu.

Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest. But those who are advanced, they want higher philosophical thoughts. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). It is meant for higher class. So there are different literatures for different persons. Why there are eighteen Purāṇas, sattvic, rajasic, tamasic? Those who are tamasic, for them it is advised...

Dr. Patel: Devī Purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you get it sacrificed before Goddess Kali." But this is not meant for the high-class brāhmaṇa. This is meant for the third-class dvija. But still, he is induced to accept some authority. In this way there are Purāṇas. Somebody is recommended to worship Lord Śiva, somebody is recommended to worship Kali, Durga, Sarasvatī, many demigods. But Nārada Muni chastised his disciple that "You have done wrong. Why you have recommended all these things?" Jugupsitam. That is said there, that "People will take your authority, and they will be engaged in worshiping different demigods." Actually that is not required. Then he compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, only the Supreme Lord worshiped. The same thing as Kṛṣṇa explained, mam ekam. That is success. So Vyāsadeva was very much...

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (2): ...of anecdote where gopīs, you know? When gopīs' dress were taken by Kṛṣṇa, He wanted these gopīs to give away all their humility and humbleness, to show everything. "Then only, unless you surrender to Me, you cannot have any salvation." So when they took out all their dress and then went prayed before Him without any dress, then only they have become muktas. Like that Draupadi also. When Duhsasana...

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī interpretation.

Indian man (2): No, that is what I...

Prabhupāda: Why should you interpret? Gopīs prayed Kṛṣṇa and all the Katyāyanī devīs that "Let Kṛṣṇa become our husband." So Kṛṣṇa fulfilled their desire because a woman can become naked only before husband. That is the purport, no other interpretation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when that so many gopīs called, "So you wanted Me as your husband? All right, I become your husband." That's all. Because for a woman there is no shame before husband. So this was acceptance of husband. And so far renouncing everything, they had already done that. Therefore we take everything, śāstra, as it is, no interpretation. Then, simply by making oneself naked, he would have gone to Vṛndāvana. They interpret. These Māyāvādīs, they interpret in so many ways just to make the statement of Bhāgavata story. This is their real purpose. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Without being liberated, can anyone expect to become wife of Kṛṣṇa? They were already liberated. These interpretation are there only to minimize the value of Kṛṣṇa and the value of gopīs. Māyāvāda bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nāśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, "If you hear the comments by the Māyāvādīs, then you are finished."

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: So Durga is higher than Viṣṇu because Viṣṇu required Durga to awaken Him from the yoga-nidrā to kill Madhu and Kaitabha. So she controls Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if I ask my servant that "You ask me to get up at seven o'clock," that does not mean.... (laughter)

Keśavalāl Trivedi: No, some of these things we could not follow. As a matter of Madhu-Kaitabha-vadha, I have read it several times.... (end)

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Indian man (2): (break) In Bangalore, when I was meeting one person and encouraging to become a member, he was telling that among the Durgā worships, one of the Durgā forms called Śānti Dūrga is under the mode of goodness worship. I just want some clarification.

Acyutānanda: Sattva-guṇa is also māyā. Somebody asked, "There is a Maṅgala-gaurī." So I said, "That means there must be some other Gaurīs who are not maṅgala. Why they have specified that this Gaurī is Maṅgala-gaurī. Then other Gaurīs are not maṅgala."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...saṁhitā we understand, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya. The pralaya is amaṅgala, and sṛṣṭi is maṅgala. Sthiti is also maṅgala. So Gaurī has got three functions, Durgā.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) Nṛsiṁha-deva wanted to give him benediction, blessings, "Whatever you like." He refused that. He said that "I am not a mercantile devotee that I'll get some benefit from You, but first benediction I want that let me engage in the service of Your servant, Nārada Muni." Tava bhṛtya-sevām. "Because my spiritual master gave me blessing, therefore I see You. So my first business is to serve him." This is Vaiṣṇava conclusion. So he refused direct service but he wanted blessing that he may be engaged in the service of his spiritual master. This is Vaiṣṇava conclusion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was indebted to his guru.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly he must be. Certainly he must be. Because by the mercy, guru takes the compassion that "These are suffering in this material world," he goes door to door and tries to save him. And if one forgets guru and jumps over to serve Kṛṣṇa, he is not a devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guru-druha.

Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee. Mad-bhaktya... There is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says that "Worship of My devotee is greater worship than to Me."

Śāstrījī: Mad bhaktyā yānti mām.(?)

Prabhupāda: And Lord Śiva, he advises Parvati when she was questioning....

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Formerly the Hindus, they used to purchase meat and cook it in Ganges water. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy.

Harikeśa: Purify it.

Prabhupāda: They thought, "Now it is..." And you will still find in Calcutta, "Hindu butcher." That Hindu butcher is pure. You have been in Calcutta? So they are going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Jews have that, "Kosher butcher."

Prabhupāda: "Mother's prasādam." The rascals say, "It is mother's prasādam."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Durgā, Kālī-prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Ramakrishna Mission, they take mother's prasādam. And they call...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you will also be mother's prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sudāmā: Even they kill fresh, Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes they will kill a cow who has some disease in liver, and then they will eat and they will all die...

Prabhupāda: Well, they manufacture so many ways. That does not mean we have to support it. We accept that these are animals, that's all.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to become famous, so I said, "Everybody will know that you built a temple there."

Prabhupāda: So it is good idea.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the location is very good. It's right in the center. And they have Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities there, plus they have Rāma, Sītā, Lakṣmaṇa, Hanumān, which we can also worship.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Only problem is they have Durgā.

Prabhupāda: Durgā, so we can worship, giving Durgā the prasādam of Rāma or Kṛṣṇa. That's it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, something can be worked out.

Prabhupāda: Not directly. His prasāda. If we can worship ordinary human being, why not Durgā? But we give prasādam. We shall give. So don't tell all these things now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn't tell him anything.

Prabhupāda: We do not say that we do not believe in the demigods. No, we believe in. But they are servants. That's all. We cannot make the servant and the master on the equal footing. That is all. We worship Durgā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Now, what is the function? Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi... She is acting by the desire of the Supreme Lord, Govinda.

Guru dāsa: Better than we are and should be worshiped.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They say that "Now we are scientists. We do not require God." Yes.

Dr. Patel: They are putting, I mean.... The putting of a small leaf in a hydrocarbon.... You can't put it from that. To that step we have come in biochemistry or chemistry.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they should admit who has adjusted it. Then who has adjusted like this, so that the color, the flavor, everything is maintained standard? That is real scientist.

Dr. Patel: Svabhāva hatu pravar.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Svabhāva means prakṛti. So mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti (BG 9.10).

Dr. Patel: So under His guidance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So matter cannot work. Yasyājñayā... There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti.... Svabhāva is Durgā. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā (Bs. 5.44). By His desire.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The prisoners.... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was very well known, so all of them assembled and offered him respect. Haridāsa Ṭhākura blessed them, "Stay in this condition." (laughs) So they were surprised, that "We offered respect, and the blessing is that 'Stay in this....' " Then they were explained, " 'Stay in this condition' means your attitude to offer respect to a Vaiṣṇava." That was the intent, not that "You stay in the prison house." Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, offering respect.... (break) ...ārādhanam. When Pārvatī inquired from Lord Śiva what is the best form of worship, he advised, viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param: "Oh, to worship Lord Viṣṇu is the best form of..." Then he said, tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānāṁ samarcanam: "And greater than viṣṇor ārādhana, Viṣṇu worship, is to worship tadīyānām, anything in connection with Viṣṇu." Anything.... That is Vaiṣṇava. Just like we are worshiping tulasī, tulasī plant. Why tulasī plant? It is a plant only, not even human being. Tadīyānām. Because tulasī is liked by Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, anything in connection with Viṣṇu, to worship, that is better than Viṣṇu worship.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question 21. "Are changes visible in Hinduism in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship as a result of Hinduism's contact with the West?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavati-bhāryaṁ dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the Viṣṇu paramaṁ padam. Viṣṇor aradhanaṁ param. The worship of Viṣṇu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Viṣṇu. And that is Vaiṣṇavism. So Vaiṣṇavism means for everyone or sanātana dharma. That I have already explained. The human.... The living entity is sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7).

Evening Darsana -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That was not killing. So instead of wasting his time, he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." Here is... You cannot open slaughterhouse, giving reference to the Vedas or any sacrifice, either in the Muhammadans, Jews and everyone. They also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It is not that they recommend open slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing; there will be a class of men who'll eat meat. To give them some concession, so this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal-eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this Goddess Kālī worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, on the dark moon night, one day in a month, and the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he automatically will give it up. "So much botheration. Better give it up." Actually denies. "Yes, you can eat once in a month and at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it that "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse. Because the asuras or the so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the evidence of animal killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted..."

Prabhupāda: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... (break) That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat—to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this goddess Kālī-worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he'll automatically give it up. "So much botheration, better give it up." Actually deny. "Yes, you can eat once in a month at the dead of night, when everyone will sleep, nobody can hear the screaming of the animal..." These are the recommendations. That is indirectly denying. If one is intelligent, he'll accept it, "Why so much botheration for eating meat? Better give it up."

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ārya-samājī means another edition of the Muhammadans.

Indian man: Some are Śiva followers, Śaivaites.

Prabhupāda: The Ārya-samājīs, they do not believe in God, so how they are Śiva followers? Hodgepodge. No sāmajīs but hodgepodge.

Indian man: Yes, it is. They don't know what is Personality of Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Opportunity followers.

Indian man: Hodgepodge, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Opportunists. Useless. They have no value.

Indian man: Thirty percent of the Indian families, they are Ārya-samājīs, and twenty percent are South Indian Śaivaites. I get a lot of argument that "Rāmacandrajī did the pūjā of Śivajī at Rāmeśvaram, so Śiva is greater than Rāma." I said, "Consider this, that Rāma was so humble to do the pūjā of Śivajī, but in Rāmastotrāṇi it says rāma rāmeti rāmeti ramerama manorane, shastranama tat tulyam sri-rama-nama ramarame.(?) That is what Śivajī is telling Pārvatī. Śivajī is telling Pārvatī in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)." I say, "Why does Śivajī say that? Why is Śivajī sitting in samādhi? Why not Kṛṣṇa sitting in samādhi? Why not Rāma sitting in samādhi? Why not Mahā-Viṣṇu sitting in samādhi? Because Śivajī's position is to serve Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa as Rāma is so humble that He came and even did His devotee's pūjā."

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa is afraid of Mother Yaśodā's rope. But that does not mean He is no longer the Supreme Lord.

Indian man: Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Prabhupāda: He's afraid of "Mother, don't bind Me." So everyone is afraid of Kṛṣṇa, and He is afraid of His mother's rope. So does it mean Kṛṣṇa has become no more the Supreme?

Indian man: In fact, you might have heard of Satya Sai Baba in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Indian man: Muktananda. And he has got his retreat, and some of our people go there, and I heard from them that he is teaching... He is quoting Gītā, but if you go to his room, oṁ namaḥ śivāya. I said, "This is contradiction." I said, "If he is a Śiva follower, he should teach Śiva Purāṇa and not Gītā." I said...

Prabhupāda: But they are actually impersonalists. They neither follow Śiva nor Kṛṣṇa. They are impersonalists. Their idea is the Absolute Truth is imperson. You can worship Him either as Śiva or as Kṛṣṇa, as you like. That is their philosophy. Yes.

Indian man: Yes. But this is the height of hypocrisy, to teach Gītā and to chant oṁ namaḥ śivāya.

Prabhupāda: No, because they say, "Either way, you become impersonal at the end. You Brahma-liṅga;(?) you become one with Brahma. But before you become Brahma-liṅga, you can imagine some form, either Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu or Śiva or Durgā, the same thing." That is their...

Indian man: In fact some of the arguments that I received were... "If you go to heaven, let's say, Vaikuṇṭha, then you become... You join the impersonal Brahman. Then you have nothing else to do." He says, "In material world we have family. We have something to do." I said, "If you believe in impersonalism, you have nothing to do. If you believe in personalism, you will serve the Lord there."

Prabhupāda: Impersonal means if you have nothing to do, then you'll become mad.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: Takes very long.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Very easy, provided you want to do it.

Mrs. Sahani: But takes long time to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No long time, I say a moment. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You do it. You can do it in a moment, but you'll not do it. That is the difficulty.

Mrs. Sahani: Yes, we are doing that.

Prabhupāda: You can do it immediately, but unfortunately you'll not do it. What can be done? There is a story, I may narrate it. One poor man was begging on the street, and Lord Śiva and Pārvatī was passing as ordinary man. So Pārvatī requested Lord Śiva that this poor man, he's asking, he's begging, so requested him, "Why don't you give him something?" And Lord Śiva replied, "Even if I give, he'll not be able to enjoy it. He's so unfortunate." "Oh, that we shall see. Why don't you give?" So Lord Śiva, in a watermelon, gave him, say, one thousand dollars. "You take this watermelon." So he thanked him, and after that he thought "What I shall do with this watermelon?" So another man came, "Sir, if you take this watermelon and give me one anna." So he gave one anna and he took it. Because he had no good fortune to take that money within the watermelon. Our fortune is like that. Kṛṣṇa is giving us the final benefit, but we are not taking care of. This is our misfortune.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is the Vedic injunction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. In the Bhāgavata it is said kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). These things are there. It is not a manufactured program. It is based on śāstra. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. These things are there. You have to accept some authority. If you don't accept authority, you speculate. That is your business, but we don't do. We accept the authority.

Interviewer (4): The same claim is made by Durgā also.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Interviewer (4): (indistinct)-śakti cult, they also give you the same...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.44)

Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under My supervision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) ...but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotee 1: Pradyumna thought that you wanted to take with them.

Prabhupāda: So I can take, but you'll take...

Devotee 1: They have their food and you will also have...

Prabhupāda: No, what is that? Let them take here in the temple.

Devotee 1: In the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I will have to take at least one hour, how they will wait?

Jayapatākā: Better they take separate.

Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then we cannot sit. (break) ...book is going on. (Bengali) This is our childhood song. (Bengali) The small drops of rain falling, now their will be flood in the river. (Bengali) (break) We know even in October sometimes there are rains. Because the Durgā Pūjā takes place in October. From our childhood we have experience. During Durgā Pūjā there was raining, fog.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Now they bring them up to be independent.

Prabhupāda: It is a question of culture. Culture. She was king's daughter, royal, and married her with a muni, old, rotten. Older than me. All the skin has become slackened. But still she was serving him just like worshipable lord. The age difference is great-grandfather and great-granddaughter. You'll find in Bhāgavatam. Lord Śiva, he could not construct even a house. He was living underneath a tree. And his wife, Durgā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44). She can create a new world, so powerful, Durgā. She's living with her husband underneath a tree. Never claims, "My dear husband, if you cannot, I can make one." There is a story about that. That, "People criticize us. All right, let us have some house." So Lord Śiva, Durgā, both of them capable to do anything. So they constructed a very nice gold house. "Now we shall live." So there is new house entering ceremony. So one Gargamuni was invited as brāhmaṇa. Many other brāhmaṇas. So they began to eat so much... That story I'm now forgetting. Then whatever stock they have finished, when, after eating, when they wanted, "Give us dakṣiṇā." Because after eating there is... So Lord Śiva, where shall I get everything? I have finished." Then they became puzzled what to do. So Lord Śiva said, "All right, you take this house." Again they became underneath a tree. (laughs) "All right, as dakṣiṇā you take this house. Don't bother." Their house entrance ceremony was there. As a result of that ceremony they became again underneath a tree. (About someone else:) What they're doing? (end)

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How God can be Indian? Then how he's God? God must be for everyone. An Indian God.

Hari-śauri: He says here that he is the image of Kṛṣṇa incarnate.

Prabhupāda: He says?

Hari-śauri: He says, "They say that he's Śiva and Pārvatī combined together. He certainly embodies both masculinity and femininity. Kṛṣṇa, as we read of Him in the scriptures, must have resembled Swamiji. His walk is that of a dancer floating in a graceful movement."

Prabhupāda: All right. I will take rest.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Mahākṣa: Some of us stayed in Anand Ashram. There is one āśrama there called Anand Ashram in the civil lines.

Prabhupāda: So what is that āśrama? Anand Ashram?

Mahākṣa: They have got Deities of... They have got... In the main bhavana they have got Lord Śiva and Pārvatī in the center, big deities. And then they have got Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa at the side and Rāma and Sītā on the other side. They also told me to go. After some days they said we had to go. They did not like us. And we did not do anything wrong.

Akṣayānanda: After how many days?

Mahākṣa: After about one week.

Akṣayānanda: Usually three days.

Prabhupāda: They were feeding you?

Mahākṣa: No.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why they did not like?

Mahākṣa: It's difficult to say. I think it is envy. The swami who was there...

Prabhupāda: He's a Māyāvādī.

Mahākṣa: Yes, he's a Māyāvādī. He did not like it when the other people take an interest in us.

Akṣayānanda: And they see that people are giving us money too. (Prabhupāda laughs) Actually wherever we go, with a few exceptions, wherever we go, after the third day we just suddenly become unwelcome even though we behave all right. The third day is about the limit.

Mahākṣa: The one exception is this Gita Bhavan in Indore.

Akṣayānanda: There are a few exceptions.

Mahākṣa: They were nice to us there.

Prabhupāda: They are nice. Once I had been there.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want material power, you must be worshiper of Durgā.

Mr. Malhotra: And if you want spiritual...?

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu.

Mr. Malhotra: Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. This Bālajī is Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu.

Mr. Malhotra: How then Viṣṇu, the incarnations, Kṛṣṇa, then Viṣṇu's incarnation...

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu is everything. If you want material power you can get it from Viṣṇu.

Mr. Malhotra: Material power from Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Viṣṇu can give everything.

akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā

mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ

tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena

yajeta puruṣaṁ param

(SB 2.3.10)

Paramaṁ puruṣa is Viṣṇu.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: One of the earliest days, when we had this group come to our neighborhood, Mrs. Desai and myself visited. They invite together. Swami Parvati-kanta had called that in Gupta House, Natinsi Road. So our house is adjacent. Bungalow is adjacent to it. So we were there, invited there, so we joined the group. Those all people came to our bungalow subsequently, and they had some program. Then Mrs. Desai served them some food...

Prabhupāda: Our program?

D. D. Desai: Yes, sir, Hare Kṛṣṇa program. They had a program, kīrtana. Then we enrolled as life member. I think that was about four years back. Swamiji from our Badranath, who is around this... Vina(?) Swami. He was there. He was saying that "Our people have forgotten our, this culture and this heritage, but people..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone says. It is purely Indian culture, and I am not getting any help from the government although they have got cultural department. Some dancing party will go; they'll pay. That is culture. And cultural knowledge is religion. This is the position. (Hindi) Real culture is neglected. And some dancing party in the name of culture will draw money and go.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: I was here during Durgā-pūjā, and there were thousands of people entering that temple, thousands. I mean... There was just a tide all day long. So I know if we have a temple...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last I went to see, before going to USA, in 1958.

Rāmeśvara: Almost twenty years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. 1958, yes. After that, I had no chance of going.

Rāmeśvara: There's no doubt that if we build a temple there it must be very, very magnificent.

Prabhupāda: Because after some years I went to USA, in 1966, er '65. 1958 or '59, I went there. For four, five years naturally. And after going to USA there was no chance.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: "Most of the gopīs in their previous lives were very great sages, expert in the study of the Veda, and when Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared as Lord Rāmacandra they wanted to enjoy with Him. Lord Rāmacandra gave them the benediction that their desires would be fulfilled when He would appear as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the desire of the gopīs to enjoy the appearance of Lord Kṛṣṇa was long cherished. So they approached goddess Katyāyanī to have Kṛṣṇa as their husband. There are so many other circumstances also which testify to the Supreme authority of Kṛṣṇa and show that He is not bound to the rules and regulations of the material world. In special cases He acts as He likes to favor His devotees. This is only possible for Him because He is the supreme controller. People in general should follow the instructions of Lord Kṛṣṇa as given in Bhagavad-gītā and should not even imagine imitating Lord Kṛṣṇa in the rasa dance."

Guest (1): In our original language, in Oriya, there is a book, preface of the book Mahā-vandanā. This is written by...

Prabhupāda: Mahā-vandanā is a fact. That is all right. But it is meant for the liberated soul.

Guest (1): Certainly.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it is good. But we have come to a point now even in science that their promises are all going to go wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to prove. That is our propaganda. Therefore we have engaged you. Prove that they are all rascals. They are giving false promise.

Yogeśvara: But then they will say "We have produced so many successes also."

Prabhupāda: What is nonsense success? We don't take that success!

Yogeśvara: Well, we have polio vaccine, we have aspirin.

Prabhupāda: I am so successful that I am going to die tomorrow. I am so successful.

Hari-śauri: Aspirin won't save you from death.

Prabhupāda: Mother asked... Mother Durgā asked the devotee... Because Durgā comes every year. Asked the devotee, "My dear son, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, very happy." "So there is no complaint?" "Only two complaint." "What is that?" "There is no food and there is no cloth. Otherwise we are very happy." (laughter) Two difficulties: no food, no cloth. That's all. These rascals are like that. Everything advanced, but when the question of death, "Oh, that..." Einstein also died.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: "Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have him. In the transcendental..."

Prabhupāda: Brahman... Brahman is also Kṛṣṇa, and Paramātmā is also Kṛṣṇa. So if one is attached to Brahman, he's also worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning.

Satsvarūpa: Or even a demigod.

Prabhupāda: Demigod. Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. But he's searching after real Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: But what is the harm? Durgā, she is in charge of... She is Kṛṣṇa's agent, so what is the harm in worshiping Durgā?

Prabhupāda: Harm means you remain with Durgā's province. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You cannot expect to go to Kṛṣṇa's place. You have to satisfy yourself and remain within this material world. This is Durgā's place.

Bhavānanda: "Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: So if I can become happy by worshiping Durgā in this material world...

Prabhupāda: But that... That is māyā. You'll never be happy. You are thinking like that. Who is in the material world happy? Nobody's happy. But because you are fool, you are thinking this is happiness.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: "I am not qualified to worship Kṛṣṇa, so let me just worship the Mother. She is part of Kṛṣṇa, so let me just worship her..."

Prabhupāda: You'll get the path of yānti deva. You go to Mother and become a goat and be sacrificed. You cut throat of a goat now by satisfying Mother, and next life the goat will cut throat, yours. Go to mother. That's all. If you like, you can go. And if you think that is good—by worshiping Mother, "I am getting daily nice goat flesh. Why shall I go to Kṛṣṇa?" That's all right, but be prepared, that so many times you'll be also cut, your head, and this goat will get chance to cut your head. Mother is witness. Mother is for the goat and for you also. So you are cutting the throat of the goat, so why the Mother will not give the chance to the goat to cut your head? Why do you think like that, rascal? "The Mother is kind to me and unkind to the goat?" That means naṣṭa-buddhi, lost intelligence. If you think Mother, then you must think that Mother of the goat also. Why Mother will tolerate? This is justice. Actually the mantra is there, that "Goat, you are sacrificing your life. You get immediately chance of human being." That is his profit. He would have evolved himself in so many lives and then get a human life. But because he's sacrificing his life before Mother, he gets immediately an lift to become a human man. And the human, because he becomes, he has got the right to cut the throat of the man who sacrificed him. This is the mantra. So if you take this risk, do that because how to become a goat, how to become a man, that is in the hands of Mother. That is not in your hand. So Mother, if she gives lift to the goat to become a man and if she degrades you to become a goat, that is in the Mother's hand. You cannot check it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamā... Mother is just to everyone. "All right, this man is cutting your throat. You just become human being and cut his throat. I shall make him a goat." How you can say, "No"? Can you say? And Mother is all-powerful. Then you take the risk. And why Mother will make injustice? The poor goat, you shall cut the throat, and you remain human being, Mother's pet son? What is this logic? She is Mother means she is equal to every son. The goat is also her son; you are also her son. So you are taking advantage of this poor goat, and now he'll get this advantage. You, you become a goat. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). When you are being made into a goat, you cannot check it. That is in the hand of mother. Then what is your answer? Will you take that risk?

Bhavānanda: Not if I'm intelligent.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Therefore anyone who worships the other demigod, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ, there is no sense.

Hari-śauri: Alpa-medhasa.

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You will remain within this material world. That is Mother's kingdom. This external world is controlled by the Mother Durgā. She's in charge of this material world. So if you become a perfect devotee of Mother, you get all good chances in this material world but not eternal life. Within this material world wherever you go everything is limited, either you become Indra or Brahmā, or ant. Just like President Nixon, so long he was President he was doing everything as he liked, and now he's an ordinary man, (indistinct). This is Mother's kingdom. Is that Mr. Nixon the same Nixon when he was President? But same Nixon is he, but the atmosphere and the circumstance is the same? Does he not realize it? "How I was enjoying as President and what is my position. Everyone kicks on my face." Is that very good position? Therefore alpa. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Antavat tu phalam. This position ultimately will be ended. Therefore less intelligent class are after this, not very intelligent men.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ... Son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the, wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa-yajña. She heard blaspheming (of) her husband so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he (she) gave up his (her) body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalaya king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened. Kālīdāsa Kavi is giving remark that "Here is dhīra. Here is dhīra, a young girl touching the genital of Lord Śiva and he is not agitated." Adhīra. Dhīra means there is cause of agitation, but one is not agitated. That is called dhīra. And adhīra, everyone. There is cause of agitation in so many ways.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Even a calculator can immediately multiply some...

Prabhupāda: But calculator machine, another man is working, so where is brain, calculating? The machine is made by another man, and it is being worked by another man, so where is the brain in the calculator? That is... So you are misled immediately. Bluff.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Word jugglery. Simply a word jugglery.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shadow.

Prabhupāda: Shadow. The shadow has no power to move. Chāyeva. How nice example. Although Durgā, the material nature, is so powerful, she is powerful in that way, as much the shadow is powerful. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. Again explained, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate. "Whatever she is doing, she is doing according to the desire of the Supreme..." Govindam ādi-puruṣam. "O Govinda, You are the Supreme." Everything is there. Everything is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā. Ultimately, govindam ādi-puruṣam.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). (sound of thunder and rain) This time rainfall is very beneficial for crops. This is the way of living. You perform yajña, there will be rain. And as soon as the ground is moist, you can produce anything, whatever you want. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From the field, you can get all your necessities of life. The first necessity is the food grain. So food grain you can eat, and the rejected grass portion, you give to the cows. So both the animal and the man get sufficient food. And the cows will give you nice milk, and from milk you can get butter, ghee, yogurt, so many nice sweetmeat. And there is ghee, and here is food grain, then you make kacuri, puri, samosā. Then sufficient foodstuff, nice, palatable, nutritious. First necessity is āhāra. You get sufficient āhāra. Then make little cottage for shelter. Just like there is rainfall. Now you require little... (thunder sounds) Āhāra, nidrā, bhaya, and sex. So marry. Then the whole problem is solved. And then, rest time you save and advance in Kṛṣṇa conscious... This is civilization. Why you create unnecessary necessities of life and become complicated and forget Kṛṣṇa? What is this civilization? Rascal civilization. Instead of giving protection to the cows, you are cutting the throat. Is that civilization? So this is a civilization of duṣkṛtina, means mischief monger. Therefore they must suffer, and suffering. And asuras are being created. And Kṛṣṇa's business is to kill the asuras. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is going on. This is material nature. Asuras are being created, and the whole plan is to kill them. So struggle for existence. The asuras, they want to live. Mahiṣāsura he's struggling with the weapons of Māyā, Durgā. He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14).

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: This first sketch shows Śiva and Pārvatī are passing on the road. These women were bathing, and they are running to cover themselves. And this is the beginning of the fight between the women over the clothing, and Śukrācārya's daughter was thrown into a well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Then because of that, Yayāti was cursed, because later on, the woman that threw her into the well, he, she became like a mistress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were friends. Then they became rivals. Hm. So that's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Then this is the painting showing Śukrācārya and his daughter, and they're cursing Mahārāja Yayāti. What's happening here is that...

Prabhupāda: No, Śukrācārya's cloth is why long? So?

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: During the New York case, one of the leading men in the Arya Samaj wrote a very personal letter in support of us, not a standard letter, but in his own words he was glorifying your work like anything, and especially from this point of view.

Patita-pāvana: Even this Arkasomayaji, his iṣṭa-devatā is Kanaka Durgā from the Kabur district of the Godāvarī in Andhra, and he's a Māyāvādī. I told him, "We have some difference, but please shelve your differences and simply follow our point of view." He said, "That's all right, but I think your guru is the Divine walking the earth, and I must serve him." (laughs) So I said, "Very good. Please come and help."

Prabhupāda: So arrange to receive them. Give them very kindly... If Acarya agrees, that will be great success.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So both you and Mahadevia together supply... This friend of Mahadevia...

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Nadī, friend and temple."

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) ...that is also shaving our colony, beautiful temple inside the waters.

Prabhupāda: Our Indian touring means...

Kārttikeya: River and temple.

Prabhupāda: River and temple. That's all. All our holy places are on the bank of the Ganges, Yamunā, temple.

Kārttikeya: Except Bombay. Bombay has no river.

Prabhupāda: Bombay is big river, this... (laughter)

Mr. Dwivedi: Has got father of rivers.

Prabhupāda: And the temple is there, Umā devī.

Kārttikeya: Father of river is Himalaya.

Mr. Dwivedi: Give any name you like. As friend you may call.

Kārttikeya: Father it is not, sāgara.

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-Prema: After Mandara Meru, Mandara, that Mandara Mountains... And here he began to meditate. He meditated for six thousand years on this Mandara Mountain here. Then Pārvatī came, and she... Then next... These two mountains are like (describes sketch of planetary system, very difficult to hear) And here is the beautiful Indu stream(?). And it's heart is... Eight hundred miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is it?

Bhakti-Prema: On the Mandara Mountain. There are four different streams. This is Ilāvṛta-varṣa.

Yaśodānandana: This area?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Śivaloka? Śivaloka?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes, it is not actually Śivaloka, but residence of Lord Śiva.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of his... He described it that like during the summertime you go to a hill station. Each demigod has their place where they also go.

Bhakti-Prema: Śivaloka is different, but Lord Śiva is...

Prabhupāda: Summer residence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why not? If a man can have summer residence, Lord Śiva...

Bhakti-Prema: Actual residence is in Satyaloka. Brahmā is there in Satyaloka. That means 2,200,000,000 miles away from sun planet.

Prabhupāda: That... Then it is universe.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, rent hall...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they lifted the curfew.

Haṁsadūta: The curfew's over now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the Singhalese take interest as much as the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Śrī Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.

Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Magistrate wants my presence?

Jayapatākā: No. It is not required that you talk to him. There's no... Everyone says that there's no case for that. The previous ADM said that actually the person that was doing it is this woman district magistrate. That woman is quite inimical to us. So there's very strong talk that after Durgā Pūjā she'll be transferred. If she's transferred, then our situation would become much better, I hope, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. She's just trying to harass us, but actually she has no legal scope. Indian Overseas Bank came out, the additional general manager, to Māyāpur, and he's very eager to open up the branch at Māyāpur also, because they have already in Bombay. I think... They have here also? I don't know. But he was eager to open a branch there. They have made us an application. The Central Bank sent a letter, withdrew their application for opening the bank. Right now the Gurukula, they have just finished their examinations. Their examinations were writing an English sentence in Sanskrit and writing Sanskrit in English and similar type tests. They, most of the students got seventy percent on the examination. Then the bigger children went out on saṅkīrtana with the two traveling parties, one to Darjeeling. In Darjeeling they sold seven thousand books in less than ten days. They had very good reception in Darjeeling. And one party is still in Bihar. They did four thousand books.

Prabhupāda: Bengal book.

Jayapatākā: In Bihar—they were doing the border of Bengal in Bihar—so they did both Hindi and Bengali. And in Darjeeling they did Bengali. Every day we're getting about twenty letters in the mail from people who want to be devotees or want to subscribe to the magazine. We get a big stack of mail. So there's a lot of interest from the books.

Prabhupāda: So utilize them properly.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll have to sit up. Is that all right? (break) These are very favorite preparations. Today is Rāma Vijaya Utsava. Also the appearance day of Śrī Madhvācārya. So you should have a feast today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) So maybe Pisimā should do some cooking to celebrate this day. It is a very big... Dr. Ghosh told me that amongst the Bengali community...

Prabhupāda: No, all over India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also Durgā-pūjā is today.

Prabhupāda: Vijayotsava. Today Rāmacandra conquered over Rāvaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So to celebrate that, shouldn't Pisimā do some cooking?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Lugdu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'll taste a little of each thing?

Prabhupāda: Hm. I'll take. (break)