Prabhupāda: The first scene is that people passing on with saṅkīrtana movement as we have, as we usually do, very nice procession with mṛdaṅga, karatālas and that bugle, all people, just in the ordinary way. We have to make a nice procession. The second scene is that Kali, the personified Kali, a person should be decorated blackish. A blackish man with royal dress and very ugly features. And his queen, another ugly featured girl or lady. So they are disturbed. They'll talk between themselves that "There is saṅkīrtana movement now and how we shall prosecute our business of this Kali-yuga?" There will be, in that scene, in some corner somebody is drinking. Two or three persons drinking. The scene will be like that. They are sitting in the center. In one corner somebody taking part in drinking, and another part somebody is illicitly talking of lust and love with woman. In another section there is slaughtering of a cow, and another section gambling. In this way that scene should be adjusted. And in the middle, the ugly man, black man, and the ugly woman will talk that "We are now in danger. The saṅkīrtana movement has been started. What to do?" In this way you have to finish that scene.
Dress (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"dress"
|"dressed"
|"dresser"
|"dresses"
|"dressing"
|"dressless"
|"dressmakers"
|"dresswalla"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hayagrīva: Because sometimes I know he's depicted as female.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Male, his feature black, and dressed like a king. Black means ignorance. And similarly the scene is also blackish.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: These things should be ascertained(?). Then, it is mentioned there, exhibit illicit sex, slaughterhouse, intoxication, gambling. Then the third scene is very nice. Rāsa dance.
Hayagrīva: Uh... Just before this... I'm not going to make this I don't believe either eastern or western, but I think this can apply for the whole world in the sense that the names may be Indian names, but I think the exhibition of the assembly of Kali and his consort sin and the exhibition of illicit sex and slaughterhouse, this can all be, it can be from western type prototype.
Prabhupāda: That may be. No, why should you... It may be sometimes misunderstood that western people are only under the influence of Kali. Because the world is under the influence of Kali. Not that in your country only this intoxication, illicit sex. No, everywhere it is.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult to understand. Just like you dress in a certain way, I dress in certain way. So we have got this dressing system in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and this is taken from Vedic literature. A brahmacārī should dress like that. And that is very economical. Our dress is saffron dress. It does not become dirty very quickly, and we... (break) This dress is not very important thing, but when one is initiated, he accepts the regulations which I give them. So it is not that if you do not come in that dress in our temple you will not understand our philosophy. That is not... We don't mean that. But it is convenient. But anyone who does not want to change this dress, that does not matter. We don't insist. These brahmacārīs, they voluntarily change. Otherwise there are many students, just like we have got two, three students, they are working. They come just like ordinary American gentlemen. So there is no objection in that way. Dress is not very important thing.
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly a church, but it is an institution for understanding the science of God.
Interviewer: Could you tell people how you are dressed today, what's the significance of your clothes?
Prabhupāda: About the significance of our institution?
Interviewer: No, about the way your clothes, the way you're dressed today. Uh, the robes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, the robe? Yes, I am a sannyāsī. The sannyāsī is the highest status of human social division. According to Vedic culture there are four divisions of human society. Brahmacārī, student life; then householder, gṛhastha; and then vānaprastha, retired life; and then sannyāsa life, means preaching transcendental knowledge to the society from door to door. So this dress... In Vedic culture, there are different dresses for different persons. So this saffron colored dress means that he is admitted without any introduction anywhere because he's understood to be a man of transcendental knowledge. And the householders receive them and take knowledge from them. That is the system of Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.
Nayana Abhirāma: Could you tell us about something about Lord Caitanya's production of Vaiṣṇava drama? Are there any of the plays that you know are still extant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was playing Vaiṣṇava drama in His household life, rather in student life, and He was taking the part of Rukmiṇī, because He was very beautiful young boy. Formerly, in our childhood also, we saw in drama there was no females taking part. If there was a female part, the man would be dressed just like a female. Formerly females are not allowed. If one has to find out a female for taking part in drama, then he has to find out from other quarters, not in respectable part. Now, very, very respectable, educated girls are taking in drama and cinema in India. Formerly this was not possible. And perhaps in the theatrical performances, stage, that was introduced by Lord Caitanya, drama. But His dramatical performances were limited within the devotees. He will not allow to take part in the performance who is not a devotee.
Interviewer: Would you give me a background, the history and origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No history can trace out the origin of Kṛṣṇa consciousness because the living entities, they are eternal. The bodily concept of life is not correct. Nobody dies, nobody takes birth. Everyone is eternal. This change of body is considered a change of dress. Therefore nobody can say that "This is the beginning of life." So whenever there is life, there is consciousness also, and originally the consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But due to our long material association that consciousness is covered. Therefore we are out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This movement is to revive that Kṛṣṇa consciousness again, so that he can be raised to his original position.
Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa. If somebody develops love of Kṛṣṇa, or God, without those methods, there is no objection. We are not limited by the methods or ritualistic methods. But there are certain ritualistic method, which, if one follows, then he can quickly learn the art of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like we restrict our students in four principles: illicit sex life and intoxication, gambling, and meat-eating. So it is not that a gambler or a meat-eater or a man addicted to illicit sex life, he cannot love Kṛṣṇa. It is not that. But that is very rare case. If he follows these principles, then it will be easier for him. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God is pure, so so long one is impure in his habits, it is not possible for him. So these are the purificatory processes. And so far our signals or some marks on the body—just like we take tilaka; we have some beads—this means... Just like it is practical. When I was in Montreal and other cities, when we passed through the road, the children, the persons, they also said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So these marks and this symbolic representation reminds others to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a policeman, as soon as he appears in his dress, "Oh, here is a policeman," so similarly, these things are also required to remind others. Our process is to raise persons to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if by our symbolic representation one immediately remembers Kṛṣṇa, that is our success.
Prabhupāda: ...the whole atmosphere, you should come and disturb. You are making... You cannot understand? And the whole attention is diverted to you. So harā, harā is the form of the word... Hare is the form of the word harā when address, when She is addressed. And Kṛṣṇa, when He's addressed, the form does not change. This is grammatical rule. So Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "Oh, the energy of Kṛṣṇa, or energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa, "the Lord." So Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa means I am praying not only to the Lord, but to the energy also. This is natural. Just like a man and woman. In whole world there is combination of male and female, either... Any society, human society, or bird society or dog society or animal society. Why this male and female? Why? Female is the energy, energy of the male. Why a man takes, marries a woman and takes responsibility...? Of course, in your country they marry as a matter of joke, immediately divorce after week or after seven days. But marriage means to take full responsibility of a woman. That is real marriage, Vedic marriage. We, when I get married our boys and girls, the boy takes this vow that "I take responsibility of your maintenance throughout your whole life," and the girl promises that "I desire to serve you throughout my whole life." So the woman, the female, is the energy. When a man comes at home, he sees that everything is nicely decorated, my wife is well-dressed and foodstuff is nicely prepared, he becomes encouraged. He can work more nicely.
Reporter: ...that there would be no contradiction there and in the case of say no interference from any moon beings, that I can foresee that there would be no contradiction there if it is achieved.
Prabhupāda: No. That means simply by your suit, if you... Just like if I got a nice suit and enter your port, New York or any port, but if the immigration department does not allow me, what can I do? Is that suit sufficient? You cannot enforce there. There are intelligent persons there. Suppose if I come, a very nice costly dress, in your port and if your immigration department does not allow, what can you do? There are intelligent persons there. How do we expect that simply by you have got suit, therefore you'll be able to, allowed to enter there? That is not sufficient qualification.
Reporter: I'm just trying to pin you down to a very exact statement if I can as to whether or not if they found the suitable spacesuit and did land, whether they would be interfered with.
Prabhupāda: Interfered... Interfered... Now you try to understand. You come from Europe or from India in a very nice gentlemanly suit. Does it mean that immigration department will allow you to enter the country? That means even if you have got suitable suit they may be opposed if you haven't got, I mean to say, proper qualities and other bona fides. Because to live in the moon planet there are different qualities and bona fides. So not only you have got to make a proper suitable dress but you have to qualify yourself for getting visa of entrance into moon planet.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...ornament Kṛṣṇa, the more you become rich. The reflection, Kṛṣṇa being richly dressed, richly fed, it will be reflected on you. Kṛṣṇa is not in necessity, but we should dress Kṛṣṇa with the first quality ornaments. In India the Deities, They are given very, very valuable jewelry. The Mohammedans were attracted for these jewelries, and they came to India to plunder the temples to get the jewelries. Still, temples have millions of dollars of jewelries. Any such temple. In Jagannātha temple there is a valuable jewel. Just here, it is kept here, in a pocket. So Deity should be very nicely dressed. That is the temple worship. At the same time should be careful also. Chant. (end)
Prabhupāda: There are some special marks on the chest of Viṣṇu by which in Vaikuṇṭha He is known that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise, in Vaikuṇṭha, everyone has got the same feature like Viṣṇu. Just like if President Johnson comes here as a gentleman, you'll not, nobody will recognize him whether he's president or not unless he shows his special mark. Is it not? All government officers, big officers, they have got within the coat one, some mark. So far I know. So similarly, in Vaikuṇṭha the inhabitants, they got svarūpa. Their form is exactly like Viṣṇu. There is no difference. When the Viṣṇudūta came to take Ajamila from the hands of Yamadūta. They were four-handed with śankha-cakra-gadā-padma as Viṣṇu, the lotus flower, this disc, and the club, and the conchshell. There is no difference in the body. Simply by that special mark, some special hair on the chest and there is Bhṛgu, I mean to say, sole, sole, a mark of the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So by some special marks one can recognize He is Viṣṇu. Otherwise, from bodily features and from dress and from ornaments, there is no distinction between Viṣṇu and His devotees in Vaikuṇṭha. They're all four-handed. Svarūpa sāyujya sālokya sārṣṭi. They have got equal, I mean to say, situation of prosperity, wealthy, equally, almost equally powerful. So practically there is no difference between Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta. In Kṛṣṇaloka also.
Haṁsadūta: Someone has said that the dhotī, the dhotī that the brahmacārīs wear, is the dress that's worn in Vaikuṇṭha. Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: Just see Viṣṇu. He has no coat-pant. Here is Viṣṇu. Or Kṛṣṇa, He has no dress. He is also bare body. Only Rādhārāṇī is covered. In India also, still, the covering of the body is only for woman, but men, this, practically one dhotī is sufficient. Sometimes laṅgota, the underwear. Laṅgota, underwear. What is that?
Nanda-kiśora: Swami? What does Nanda-kiśora mean?
Prabhupāda: Nanda-kiśora, kiśora means a boy.
Nanda-kiśora: Boy?
Prabhupāda: The transcendental boy of Nanda Mahārāja.
Allen Ginsberg: In America?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have seen. All my students are Americans. So it has to be... And it is spreading.
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, but what it requires is an adaptation of Indian dress and an adaptation...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important.
Allen Ginsberg: And an adaptation to Indian food.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Indian food... It is not Indian food. Are you not eating fruits?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then that is Indian food? Do you mean to say it is Indian food?
Allen Ginsberg: Well, the curries.
Prabhupāda: Kalki's nature, that is described in Bhāgavata. He will come just like a prince, royal dress with sword, and on horseback, simply killing, no preaching. All rascals killed. No more preaching. (laughing) That is the last. There will be no brain to understand what is God.
Allen Ginsberg: There will be no brain to understand God?
Prabhupāda: They will be so dull, so dull. It requires brain to understand. Just like in the Bhāgavata it is said that evaṁ prasanna-manaso (SB 1.2.20), "fully joyful," bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, "by practice of bhakti-yoga." Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, mukta-saṅgasya: "and freed from all material contamination." He can understand God. Do you think God is so cheap thing, anyone will understand? Because they do not understand, they present something nonsense: "God is like this. God is like that. God is like that." And when God Himself comes, that "Here I am, Kṛṣṇa," they don't accept it. They'll create their own God.
Prabhupāda: ...six or seven years old, my father was worshiping, so I wanted to imitate. I asked him that "Give me Deity." So he gave me.
Allen Ginsberg: Did you wash them and play with them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Washed, changed dress.
Allen Ginsberg: Fed them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything.
Allen Ginsberg: Do you still? Do you still wash them and feed them and play with them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now my disciples I have... (laughs) At home I was doing that.
Allen Ginsberg: What are you reading?
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is original Sanskrit. There are eight commentaries by big, big stalwart scholars.
Prabhupāda: (pause) Hm. Very good. So if we go, there will be good reception in Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Labor of love.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī... Sannyāsa reason was different. There was some misunderstanding between His students and... They were of same age. Because Nimāi Paṇḍita was very intelligent boy, so He was teaching other boys practically of the same age. So there was some misunderstanding and the students wanted to retaliate. He went to strike them with a stick, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And because they're of the same age they made a conference, "Oh, this Nimāi Paṇḍita has become very big man. He wants to strike us. Next time if He does so, then we shall also strike Him." Then He thought that "In this householder's position I cannot preach. I must take sannyāsa. Otherwise they will not respect Me." That is the system in India. A sannyāsī in this dress, whatever rascal he may be, he is offered immediately all respect. That is the system in India. So therefore He took sannyāsa early age, 24 years, 24 years of age.
Prabhupāda: So now people do not wish to consider also this point, that "If I am eternal, if I am changing my place, my dress, my occupation every fifty years or ten years or twelve years according to the dress..." The cats and dogs, they live for ten years. The cows live for twenty years, and the man lives for, say, hundred years. Trees lives for thousands years. But everyone has to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we have to change our old dress, similarly, this body has to be changed. And we are changing. Changing every moment. That is a fact. This boy will grow also some day like you, like me. This body will not stay. I had a body like this, say, fifty years ago or sixty years ago, but that body is now missing. I have got a different body. So everyone is changing body in this way. We do not know where that body gone, but ultimately also, we shall change, and we shall enter another body, and again we have to begin new set of work, leaving all aside. Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): In some form...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual...
Guest (1): Yes, even there is spiritual form, one has to live in certain form, without which...
Prabhupāda: That is natural form. That is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat. It is not your natural form. So material...
Guest (1): Has spirit no want?
Prabhupāda: Yes, no want.
Guest (1): Without it, you see...
Prabhupāda: Everything you desire, it is present immediately.
Guest (1): You mean the spirit has got subtle form, though it may be exact form?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: We require help from personalities like you, because it is very important movement, checking a great mistake in the modern world. Modern civilization is very risky. Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul. The spirit soul is also a measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important in this sense, that they are trying to bring people to the constitutional position. A living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, as well in our present body also, we are transmigrating. In my childhood I had a small body. That body is no longer existing, but I am existing. So there is no reason to believe that when I give up this body, I'll not exist. No. I shall exist, but in another body. So people are not interested to make the research work how the soul is working. This is ignorance. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to revive the pure consciousness of the human society so that he can know himself and act accordingly. Then his life is successful.
Prabhupāda: It's Kṛṣṇa's mission to awaken man's original consciousness. At the present moment we have got designated consciousness. I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking Englishman, another is thinking American. But actually we are neither American nor Indian nor any that sort of designation. We are part and parcel of God. That is our real identification. If we come to that consciousness, then all the problems of the world will be solved. Now, due to our designated consciousness, we are thinking, "You are different from me, I am different from you," but if we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we shall know that we are one, the same spirit soul, maybe in different dress. That is the explanation given in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like we are all human beings, gentlemen, ladies. Maybe in different dress, but our aims and objects are the one and the same. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). To make people free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they become purified. And when they're purified their activities by purified senses make them perfect. That is the ideal perfection of human life. And our process is also very simple.
Dhanañjaya: So they have, they have already installed a Deity. They have a Deity of Vasudeva in the Hindu Center, but He's not dressed. He's standing with cakra, but He's not, He's not clothed very nicely, and the room is not decorated very nicely at all. He's just standing there. And they asked for a pūjārī to come and look after. But they..., you see what they're thinking, they're thinking, "Oh, we're pious. We're pious for acquiring Deity." You see? "Deity is only for the lower class people, so they can see, or they will be reminded that God is here. But we already know that God is here." So they turn and sit with their back to the Deity and they talk like this, and the Deity is here.
Prabhupāda: No. They, as Dhanañjaya said, that are not willing to cooperate with us.
Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not so sure. They used to be when I was here, and I think if you have a Bhāgavata-saptāha, if the weather stays, and the weather's any good... I don't know.
Prabhupāda: But the Bhāgavata-saptāha, if they are willing to cooperate with our Bhāgavata-saptāha.
Sister Mary: Always going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no chance of escape. Chant constantly, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. It remains in the heart. Not only my heart. Others' heart, they also joke, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" If it can remain in others' heart, why not my heart? Those who are joking me, imitating me. We... Last time, when I was going in Africa, I stopped for few minutes in Athens. Some of the younger residents chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" You see? As soon as they saw us, they began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They could understand, "These are Hare Kṛṣṇa people." Yes. So by their dress, by their tilaka, they oblige others to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, either for imitating or for joking. So they gain. But if Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting has got any effect, even by joking like that, he'll get gain. If it is actually spiritual, by simply joking he will get gain.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can take sannyāsa? It is a very great responsibility. (break) There is no need of taking sannyāsa. If you are sincere in preaching you can do in this dress. Where is the harm? Simply by changing, taking a rod, you'll not become God immediately. You have to work, steadily. What is there in sannyāsa? Do you mean to say taking a rod one becomes sannyāsa? Sannyāsa means you must be sacrificing everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Sa sannyāsī, he's sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti. You went to Israel but again came back. Why? What was the difficulty?
Kulaśekhara: Well, there's no activity there Prabhupāda. I got attacked on the street. I got very sick and I was attacked on the street when I was on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Do you like to go to Africa? It is warm country.
Prabhupāda: Allahabad? Conch, from conchshell? It is especially used in Bengal. A woman... that is an auspicious sign that she is with her husband, to have conchshell bangle. Śaṅkha-sari. A woman dressed śaṅkha and sari, śaṅkha-sari. They don't require any other ornament. One nice sari and śaṅkha. That is Indian conception of woman having husband. That is distinction between widow and a woman having husband. Widow will not accept sari. All finished. Vedic culture, widow should finish her life after having the husband. Saha-gamana. Satī. Yes. (break) ...have got enough to preach. People will like it.
Mālatī: But it's not... Every day there's people from not only the Indian community, which you know is very large there, but everywhere. (others talking-indistinct) And they're beautiful. People are always amazed. And all the jewelry and all the mukuts and all the dresses, we make them ourself, and people are amazed. They are so beautiful. They have very big smiling faces and they're very shiny.
Prabhupāda: Next time when you go to London...
Dr. Singh: Yes, I'll definitely visit. I requested you to send me the list of your centers because I travel constantly throughout the world. And wherever I go, I can always look up the thing, and if I find a center there, I can drop into the center.
Śyāmasundara: Every city.
Dr. Singh: This is a new (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Actually people are accepting this great culture of India. The (indistinct).
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: How the energy is diverted, how by different manipulation the energy is working differently. Just like electric energy, by different handling it is creating heater and it is creating cooler. Just opposite. But the same electric energy. So similarly, these energies, living energy, how it is being directed, which way it is going, how it is fructifying in the next life, so they do not know. They do not know. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is very simplified. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). You are covered by this dress, by this shirt. When this shirt is not workable you change it. Similarly, this body is just like shirt and coat, when it is no longer workable, we have to change.
Prabhupāda: But if he is actually, anyone wants to see, so he should see our books also, magazines also. Why does he not see? We, our, send our boys in the streets with books. If you are not liking this saffron dress and dancing, why don't you read the books?
Author: No. I don't think you take my point. What I am saying is that... Let us imagine that the reader who picks up the book, this book that I am going to write, I hope, is very much like a person who sees the devotees dancing in the street, because he is seeing something for the first time. Now, it's necessary, surely, to describe the external and superficial features.
Prabhupāda: It is not superficial. This dancing is spiritual ecstasy. Otherwise it is not a dog's dance. You see? Any gentleman, if I ask you, "Please dance on this footpath," will you agree? It is not that dancing. You don't compare with that dancing. It is not dog's dance. They chant, they feel, they dance. That is another thing. You try to understand it. If they are coming from respectable families... Now, here is a boy. He is a professor. So if I ask him, "Please go and dance on the footpath," will he agree? A professor will agree? But when a professor dances, there is something. You should understand.
Prabhupāda: Explain... Any group of men, they have got a particular type of dress, the military dress, the police dress. So people can understand that "Here is a police." Similarly, by this dress they will chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" immediately. That is our experience. As soon as they will see these people, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and if they will criticize our, anything, we want that people see us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That we want. Simply by seeing us they will remember Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is great advancement. Indirectly that is our propaganda, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Author: Can I appeal to (devotee name) just for a second. What I am trying to say here is that, well, for most of the people who read this book, what they are going to be reading about is something which is completely alien, and therefore one can't start by offering them a highly sophisticated discussion of the philosophy because they won't even begin to understand it. Just as when you people sell Back to Godhead on the footpaths, the people who buy it, I can assure you, understand very little of it. And I think you are aware that they understand very little of it. But they understand some of it. And probably enough to make it worthwhile. You think so, and I think so too. But this book can't start off at the end. I can't start off with the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: (aside) Your business is finished at sundown.
Author: Well, with respect, I think that can only, we can only consider that question in practice. When I actually write the material, you'll have to...
Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, why there is objection if they are dressed in a particular way?
Author: Oh, I'm not objecting to it at all. In fact, it's one of the most reasons why I'm most strongly in favor of the Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: So they are Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they dress in a particular way. That is the answer. That's all.
Author: I don't mind. Sir, I don't mind how they dress. I don't mind how anybody dresses. I don't mind at all. I happen to dress conservatively, other people dress less conservatively, and you people dress in saffron robes. It's not an...
Prabhupāda: Then what is your real question about the dress and shaven head.
Bhūrijana: South China Morning Paper.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned.
Prabhupāda: So many Indian swamis, they requested me to dress myself with coat-pants. I never agreed. You see all my pictures. They are all foreign pictures. So I never (indistinct) this dress also. Why shall I take to coat-pant? What is use? Now my students, they are giving up coat-pant. And girls, they are taking to saris. There is now good demand for saris in Europe and America.
Bhūrijana: They were even telling me that here, that I should wear like a diplomat's clothes instead of dhotīs. They don't... They were ashamed.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall go now?
Śyāmasundara: It's seven-thirty. (end)
Prabhupāda: Three main: maṅgala-ārati, bhoga-ārati and sandhya-ārati. These are main. Then you can offer śayana-ārati before going to bed. śayana-ārati. And these four, and dhūpa-ārati just after lighting, or before lighting. Then, after rest in afternoon, dhūpa-ārati. After dressing, dhūpa-ārati. So two, three dhūpa-ārati, and three, four full āratis. Three must be, and four also, four, full āratis. And dhūpa-ārati at least three, four. In this way.
Bhānu: The full ārati will be in the morning, maṅgala-ārati, there will be the noon ārati, supposed to be one in the evening. When should the other full ārati be?
Prabhupāda: When the Deities are going to bed. Before going to bed. Yes. śayana-ārati, it is called śayana-ārati. Sundara-ārati, bhoga-ārati, maṅgala-ārati. You write down. Maṅgala-ārati early in the morning, bhoga-ārati at noon, offering prasādam, then sundara-ārati just after half an hour or one hour sunset, then śayana-ārati.
Pradyumna: One hour after sunset?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One hour or half an hour. It must be dark.
Prabhupāda: They stay. (sings softly) The students dress like policemen?
Sudāmā: Yes. They all wear uniform.
Karandhara: Right now there are twelve brahmacārīs in Los Angeles who are getting ready to go to India.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Karandhara: They'll be going on about the 5th of May, the 6th of May. I think also the same number in New York are preparing to go.
Prabhupāda: Now we have got enough place. Yes. Very nice place, Vṛndāvana. And we are expected to get another place at Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. Oh, that is very nice place also. (end)
Prabhupāda: Why you are dressing yourself? Why don't you wander like animal, naked?
Marilyn: No. But animals still have their own communities, and they only take what they need to eat, and they only eat when they need to eat.
Prabhupāda: Now the philosophy is how to become animals? This is the philosophy nowadays?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Today's people sometimes, Prabhupāda, she's thinking, are worse than animal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If their philosophy is to become animal then they must be worse than animal, because actually they are not animal.
Marilyn: (laughs) That's what I mean.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: That's right.
Prabhupāda: If the ultimate goal is to become animal, so that is artificial. So a human being desiring to become animal must be worse than animal, because animal has got some...
Marilyn: Has got some...
Prabhupāda: ...routine work.
Kīrtanānanda: That's, I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a group in Cleveland, Ohio.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: There is a colored lady who is leading a group, and they're dressing in dhotīs and saris, and uh, they're doing some...
Prabhupāda: So you just train them.
Kīrtanānanda: They're doing some disturbance to the temple there. And they are here. They've come to New York.
Prabhupāda: Ah, so, what do they want?
Kīrtanānanda: They want to see you.
Prabhupāda: Why? He is not my student. So the GBC unders may see and do the needful. All affairs, how can I see everyone?
Kīrtanānanda: No. You..., I don't think you should.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest (1): ...the universalism of it's very appealing.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all. Simple.
Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position.
Prabhupāda: For the last five years.
Frenchman: Can you please describe the dress in which you are clothed.
Prabhupāda: You can ask about some philosophy. Dress, (how) people will benefit knowing about my dress. Instead of wasting time in that way, I can ask you why you are in dress... That's not very important thing.
Devotee (2): Anyone can answer those questions.
Frenchman: What do you think of the future?
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee: Of the future.
Prabhupāda: Future you can guess... (indistinct) ...taking and it is spread all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, whenever you get opportunity, kīrtana. Yes. Very nice.
Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ian Polsen: Dressed as I am?
Prabhupāda: Why not? Dress is not very essential.
Ian Polsen: There is another question, Your Grace. I wear leather shoes, and I know they come from animals...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: ...which have been slaughtered for this. Should I stop wearing leather shoes?
Prabhupāda: Well, that also you can continue. That is not... Just like we are using so many things made of skin. But as far as possible, you avoid. There are many shoes without skin, nowadays they are available. First of all try to understand the philosophy. It is very nice attitude that you have. What salary you are getting, government service?
Prabhupāda: He was sitting in a park, so that English dress, that tail coat? What is called?
Devotee: Coattails, yeah.
Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boys, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he's dancing, so everyone's seeing his tail, in this way. So he thought, "Oh, what is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs) Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone was asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, (Sanskrit). This is Sanskrit story, that (Sanskrit), or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion." So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very enjoyable. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is an Englishman.
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
You may be industrial administrator, you may be engineer, you may be something else, but you make your profession perfect. And that perfection is achieved by satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead by your profession. Just like Arjuna. He was a soldier. He knew how to fight. So by his profession he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted that there should be fight between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas for right cause. And Kṛṣṇa came-paritrāṇāya sādhunaṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). He had two business: to give protection to the devotees and to kill the demons. So by Kṛṣṇa's will sometimes all the demons, they come together and fight with one another and they are killed. So battle of Kurukṣetra was such a plan to bring all the demons together and engage them in fighting and kill one another. Just like in our school days, unruly boys, one boy will be asked to catch the other boy by the ear and the same boy will be asked to catch this boy by the ear and they are pulling each other. Competition of pulling the ears. So Arjuna was fighter and he helped Kṛṣṇa in this fighting activities and thus he became a great devotee. Kṛṣṇa certified, bhakto 'si priyo 'si: (BG 4.3) "You are My dear, very dear friend and devotee." So it is not that one becomes a devotee simply by renouncing the world and coloring the dress. But in any dress, in any capacity, one can satisfy Kṛṣṇa if His cause is served.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the dharma. (indistinct)
Devotee: Dressing room.
Prabhupāda: Dressing room?
Devotee: Dressing room.
Prabhupāda: How so?(?)
Jayatīrtha: They're probably going to be taping some movie here, so they're bringing portable units for dressing and so on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most karmīs here, they have mobile homes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They drive with the car on, and they... (break)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (1): So that's how it goes back into the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like football. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is all right, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, that is a, different stages. But the real education is that you have to die. You have to accept another body. What kind of body you are going to accept? If you do not know that what is this meaning of gṛhastha, and vānaprastha, and sannyāsa? It is all rascal. If you do not... You miss this real point, then what is the meaning of this? There's no meaning. Simply by dressing in white cloth one becomes gṛhastha? And simply by dressing one, in this saffron cloth, he becomes sannyāsī? By changing dress he becomes everything? He must know, that what is the aim of life. Everyone should know what is the ultimate of life.
Prabhupāda: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya....So we are thinking we are very much fortunate to hear His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Raksaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja. He is, by age and experience, in both ways he is senior to me. I am also always fortunate to have his association for a very long timeperhaps since nineteen hundred and thirty or something like that. At that time, he did not accept sannyāsa; he just left home, vanaprastha. In his white dress he went to Allahabad. (Aside, to Śrīdhara Mahārāja:) Mahārāja, I think you remember this incident when you went to Allahabad.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, I do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Yes, at that time...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We took prasādam on the roof.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, thank you (devotees laugh). Yes. In that auspicious occasion we are connected. Before that, in 1920, ah 22, when I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, young man, and I was nationalist, Congress party. I was a devotee of Mahatma Gandhi and C.R. Dāsa. At that time...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: When I was (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that is not advancement. That is wasting time. Suppose primitive man, he has got also sensual engagement. Does the primitive man has no sex life? He has got his woman. He has got sex life. The dog has got sex life. The cat has got sex life. You have got sex life. And because you have your sex life nicely dressed, you are advanced? This is foolishness. We have to see the result. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These four things, eating, sleeping, sex life and defence, even you'll find in the birds and beasts. And you are, if you are engaged in these four things, in so-called scientific way, then where is your advancement? When death will come, your science will not save you. As the bird will not be saved, you'll not be saved. Then where is your advancement? You are going on the motor car, say, twenty miles. One bird can fly fifty miles. Even he's more expert. I have seen in the ship, the skylark they go equal speed. The ship is running on, twenty-five miles speed or thirty miles. They're going. So where is your expert? By nature, it is expert. Just like these dogs, they are jumping with great force in the ocean and they'll come back; similarly you also go with your surf, and again come back. Where is the difference between this dog and you? So you have to compare that where, where is your advancement of knowledge? Advancement of knowledge means to mitigate, minimize miseries of life.
Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows. So birth, growth, maintenance for some time, then by-product. There are some by-products. And then dwindling, then finished. This is matter. But life has no such change. When the life is within the matter, it appears that it is taking birth or death. Life will come. One phase of this change, accept. And when it cannot be maintained anymore, just like this body, when it is too old it cannot maintain. Just like dress. When it is too old we change. So these things are there. The matter is... Life is existing. Life has no change. The change is outward, material thing. In all respects we have to prove that life does not come from matter. Matter generates from life, stays for some time, and it is finished. Again begins another chapter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I plan to expound the principle of transmigration through this verse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Transmigration. Bhramadbhiḥ. Bhramadbhiḥ means transmigration, wandering from one body to another. Just like I am here. I have got my this body, a dress, covering. And when I go India, this is not required. So they are taking that the body has evolved like that. But no. Here, under certain condition, I accept this dress. In another place, under certain condition, I accept another dress. So I am the important, not this dress. But these rascals are studying the dress only. That is called ātmābhimānām, considering of the dress, body. Bālakānām. Just see. They bring here dogs for passing stool. Dog stool is so very much infectious. The diphtheria and other germs, they are grown. But these rascals they do not know. They distribute dog stool everywhere. But cow dung, there is no cow dung. Vedas says cow dung is pure. That is neglected. Dog stool is pure. This is their intelligence. They give signboard: "Littering illegal"?
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, this spirit is eternal. That is the first understanding. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This spirit is occupying a material body at the present moment. And the next, when this... Just like I am in this apartment. If I find some inconvenience, I go to another apartment. Or the lease is expired, I have to leave it. Some way or other, I change. Similarly, the... You can change your coat. So these are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Ex..., very nicely exemplified. So we are changing this apartment or dress and accepting another. This is going on. This is the material world. But I, the spirit soul, eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Second Chapter. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you can introduce, study some Bhagavad-gītā among the students, oh, it will, it will be a great service.
David Lawrence: I think it would be a great deal more popular than studies of the Bible.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cardinal Danielou: The soul, the soul, the soul is, is human soul. In the animal you have some psychologic existence, but not life of spirit with freedom, with mind and with the reality of spirit. But you have the same idea because you said that there is a difference of nature between spiritual creation and the material world. You know, the material world is not of the same essence than the spiritual world. And the man, the man is a part of spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhagavad-gītā says: sarva-yoniṣu. "In all species of life, as many forms are there, so the spirit soul is there." This outward body is just like a dress. You may have a very costly dress, and I may have a very shabby, poor dress, but both of us are human being, or living entities. Similarly these different forms of living entities, they are just like different types of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like you are in black dress. I am in saffron dress...
Cardinal Danielou: Yellow, yes.
Prabhupāda: So this is external. But within the dress you are a human being, I am also human being. Similarly, there are eight million four hundred thousands of dresses. There are nine hundred thousand dresses within the water, aquatics.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, two million kinds of dresses of the trees, plants, like that. In this way the Vedic literatures have calculated, there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of living entity. But they're all living entities, part and parcel of God. Just like one man has got ten sons. Not all of them equally meritorious. Not all. One may be high-court judge. And one may be ordinary clerk in the office. But father, both the high-court judge and the clerk in the office, father claims both of them as son.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, I agree.
Prabhupāda: For father, there is no such distinction that: "This high-court judge is very important and the clerk in the office, my son, he's not important." So if the enlightened son, high-court judge, says to the father: "My dear father, your, this son, is useless. Let me cut him and eat." Will the father allow?
Śyāmasundara: Spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is now covered by this material element. So emancipation or salvation means you no more get your material body. But your body is already there. Just like in this body, I have got my body. And because I have got a hand my dress has got a hand. Because I have got a leg, my pant has got a leg. So this superficial, external body is simply covering of your original body. The original body is spiritual. So go back to home back to Godhead means you remain in your original spiritual body. You get freedom from this covering of material body. Now that spiritual body you can transfer to so many ways.
Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Yes, this is why we dress this way. Every time we go on the street, everybody on the street says, "There's one of the Hare Kṛṣṇa people." He says "Hare Kṛṣṇa" one time.
Harry: That's. Really. Yeah, yeah. But do you think...? I suppose... Well, it's like everything else. I suppose they would get used to it. Oh, I don't know. They say, if there's a problem... As far as we are concerned, as far as the police are concerned, we can find nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong, nothing wrong. I mean, I don't know what you got, supposed to do, I don't know what you're supposed to do wrong anyway, but... But that's it, as far as we are concerned...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Well, that has brought this disaster and is causing more and more trouble, I think. More and more in practice of medicine, if we look into the practice of medicine, I think, we are more pressed with the problem of mental illness. I should say in the region of thirty percent of our time is devoted for people suffering from mental anxiety, which we call "anxiety state" and partly depression. I think most of the time, I surmise... Part of the problem is not that they are not well-fed, it is not that they are not well-dressed. Part of the problem is to accept as they are and to think of something which is present, I mean they could believe that there is something beyond this world, and if they can accept that, probably they will be better off and they will accept their present inconveniences more easily and will not be depressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): And that is the present problem.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
- śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- āgamāpāyino 'nityās
- tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
- (BG 2.14)
If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go. Just like you are medical man, you treat, some patient. Suppose he's attacked with fever. Everyone knows that fever has come; after some time, it will go away.
Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant.
Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?
Jaya Hari: I don't have time to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not good. This is not good. You must be as our representative, with tilaka, as we are dressed. Yes. Don't be deviated. You have got a good opportunity. Don't be deviated by bad association. Yes. You are a good boy. So you must revive to your original position. All right. Thank you.
Jaya Hari: Are you pleased by the reception?
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Jaya Hari: The reception is all right?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Haṁsadūta: The reception, did you like the reception?
Prabhupāda: Ah yes, nice. So what is your question? You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will do.
Gargamuni: Yes. We have to preach. (S.P. laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. If by the dress of sannyāsī, you take some money and eat and sleep, then it is transcendental fraud. (SP laughs) (Hindi) Just like others are toiling, and we are getting money by some dress. That's all. They are getting money by laboring hard, and we are getting money... In India, mostly the sannyāsīs, they do that. The priests also, they do that. This is our profession, just... My Guru Mahārāja said that ṭhākura dekhiye pāya rasta karache, rastaye 'yandiya jīvika badram karam bhari (?). Instead of earning livelihood by showing the Deity in the temple, it is better to take the profession of a sweeper in the street and live honestly. He said like that. The sweeper is working hard toiling and getting some money and living. This is honest living. But just like in Vṛndāvana, all the Goswamis. They have got their Deity. People are coming, contributing. Typical example, Gauracānda Goswami. Ṭhākura dekhiye paisa rasta. (?) All the sevaites, they are meant for... Our Kunja Babu also planned like that. He thought, "By cheating all the God-brothers, I have got now Caitanya Maṭha. And people will come to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace, and I will get good income. And it will be distributed amongst my brothers and sons and myself. That's all." That is his scheme.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Physical is my outward dress. Just like your coat, if it becomes old enough, there is no more possibility to use it. You have to throw it away. You have to take another coat. Similarly, physically, I am spirit soul. When my physical body is old enough, useless, then I will have to give it up. I will have to accept another new body. But the question is that I am eternal; why I am forced to accept a body which will be useless after some time? That is the problem. I am eternal, as spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the annihilation of this body. But why I am forced to accept another body, which will be annihilated? This technology is unknown all over the world. And still they are proud of becoming very advanced in science. (Aside:) Open this. Let them come. Keep it open. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Come forward. (break) ...technology, although it is a problem. But we can supply this technology, to solve this problem. Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya mām... Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya. (break) ...modern technologist, scientists, they do not know what is the perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyāsa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Kartika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.
Prajāpati: Kṛṣṇa has given us free will to choose or reject the godly life. Should the government take away that free will of whether they choose to...
Prabhupāda: No, that free will is not to be given. It is already there. Rather, Kṛṣṇa says He has given free will, but His personal advice is: "I am now talking to you the most confidential words." Sarva-guhyatamam. "You stop your so-called free will. Just surrender to Me." This is the most confidential. "If you surrender to Me, that is good for you. But if you go on keeping your free will you'll not be happy." There is also free will. When you come to the Kṛṣṇa platform you serve Kṛṣṇa with free will, not that you become a stone. There is free will. Just like our devotees they are dressing Kṛṣṇa nicely, is there no free will? They are cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Is there no free will? The free will is there. The Māyāvādī philosopher says, the Buddha philosopher says, that "Stop this free will, and then you become happy." But our proposition is not to stop free will but purify free will. Purify. Not stop these eyes. Just if it is suffering from cataract, cure that cataract. Keep the eyes. And their proposition, "Get out these eyes and throw it. Then there will be no more seeing what is right and wrong." That is their proposition. Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Nirviśeṣa means no speciality, no varieties. That is nirviśeṣa. And śūnya, zero. When it is zero, then there is no question of right and wrong. So our philosophy is not that.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection. You'll fall down. You can cheat others that "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am..." What is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is call bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (brief japa chanting) Any questions?
Devotee (1): Yes, one more.
Guest: Is the exterior clothing important?
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Guest: Is the exterior identification important?
Prabhupāda: Yes, important. Just like officially the policeman must dress, but a policeman sometimes in ordinary cloth also, that's his duty. But that is special case. But external, external dress is also required. By... In the dress of a police if he is a thief, that is very dangerous. That is very dangerous. Just like this dress of sannyāsī, saffron cloth, one will respect that "Here is a sannyāsī." But if he is a thief in a dress of a sannyāsī, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. One must dress... (end)
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that a sensible man is that "I am controlled. I am controlled by some other agent of Kṛṣṇa. So why not be controlled directly by Kṛṣṇa." This is sense. I cannot be independent. Just like the government. If somebody says, "I don't agree to be controlled by you," then government will kick with police, with military. That is our position. We are being kicked by the agent of government, material nature. We are desiring in different way to become controller or enjoyer, and we are being offered different facilities, means different types of body, birth and death. So because they have no sense, they have accepted this process. So by the force of nature... "You wanted to desire. You desired this thing. All right, take this body. You wanted to eat without discrimination. All right, take this body of a pig and eat up to stool." That is nature's gift. So therefore he's changing. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's going on changing, this dress that dress, that dress, that dress, that dress. But he's not in sense that "How I can stop this change?" That he doesn't know. Now, as Americans, they have so many nice facilities, but you cannot enjoy them. By nature's force, you'll have to change. What you can do? Today you are living on the twenty-fourth floor of this skyscraper, and tomorrow you may become a rat in that room. How you can change it? It is not in your power. The rat is also in the same room and you are also in the same room. Who has made this arrangement?
Prabhupāda: They are very interested in dance and... Now, I wish that they may be given sumptuous food and dress.
Dr. Patel: Yes, dress, I also thought of that. Some of them are very badly dressed, poor people...
Prabhupāda: Yes, if they come, "All right, come here. Just take your bath, be cleansed, tilaka, and a nice dress" and giving them some food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every day they can put on their nice clothes for the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because their father, mother, neither they do know how to take care of the children, but they come to us. We should take care of them.
Dr. Patel: This is just like those Christian missions, we must...
Prabhupāda: Any one...
Dr. Patel: I think, I think we must do that. Then we will be able to propagate.
Prabhupāda: Not with that purpose. Here is a poor child. He comes automatically to dance. So we should take care of them.
Prabhupāda: Or ready-made. Ready made. So in the evening they should come, they should take bath, be cleansed, and give dress. Next day when they come, change the dress. Let them be habituated. They are coming...
Dr. Patel: In cleanliness, you give them impression of cleanliness.
Prabhupāda: ...voluntarily, to dance, to take prasādam. So why you should not take care of them? This is my point. We don't make distinction whether they are coming from Christian or Hindu or...
Dr. Patel: No, no, no, no, man is a man. I mean those Christians think that we are Hindus and they are Christian. We don't think because in Hinduism or in actually Vedic religion everyone is created one.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Never mind Christian, Hindu, Muslim. A Christian or a..., if we offer them nice food and nice dress, nobody will deny.
Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.
Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither we would have agreed.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...
Prabhupāda: You have done this. You have, on the false plea that "We'll give you five hundred rupees salary. You come in the city and be engaged." Oh, he saw, "Oh, I am simply producing my food. If I get five hundred rupees, then I'll go to cinema, I'll have a good dress." Now there is no food even. You have done this. That's all. What is the benefit of this machine. Machine benefit is that we were purchasing, when there was no so much machine, in our childhood, three rupees, four annas per mound, first-class rice. Now we are purchasing one Kg.
Devotee: Ten rupees Kg. For one rupee (indistinct) first-class wheat.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So if one is rascal, they will be misled by this. Otherwise, any sane man will not accept. They say that, "We have done so much." What you have done? You have done this. At least in India, the effect of machine and factories: that there is no rice, no food.
Devotee: With the machines they're mixing stones in the rice.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: With machine help, they're mixing stone in the rice.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India is, India's culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food. Produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they'll not accept, "Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got... We must have the motor car, motor tire."
Prabhupāda: They did not take sannyāsa, but they left home. There is no need of accepting sannyāsa. One has to perform the devotional activities. That is real thing. Simply by changing dress, one does not improve. Unless he takes to the, seriously, principles of devotional service. But in the Kali-yuga, they'll think, "Because I have changed my dress, I have become a big sannyāsī." You see? "Because I have got a sacred thread, now I am a brāhmaṇa." No. There must be regular training. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a varṇāśrama society is...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jagadīśa: In a varṇāśrama society, are most of the citizens śūdras?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jagadīśa: Are the majority of citizens śūdras? In a varṇāśrama society?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The number of śūdras are always bigger. Just like in University education. The, the number of graduates and post-graduates, they're less. Others are big, number bigger.
Prabhupāda: And I have no Indians to manage these big, big temples. Neither they are trained up. Trained up. I have trained up these American boys. They are doing nicely. But they cannot. They have taken a brahmacārī dress, and they will come with pant. And they will argue, "Why? What is the wrong there? Why should I give up pant? Why shall I have tilaka? Why shall I give up smoking?" Why, why... They will put so many "whys" that my life will be spoiled. Because they have advanced. So many rascals swamis have told them, "Yes..."
Guest: But the same principle, as you say, that if we do anything, they may send our people out of India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: As you rightly say, that if we do anything, actively, then they may send your boys going out of India, foreigners. Americans.
Yaśomatīnandana: They will kick us.
Guest: "Yes. Throw them out." They will argue on that ground and they will say that "You are not required. You are nuisance," or whatever the reasons.
Prabhupāda: Any, no reason. No reason. No reason. "We don't want you."
Prabhupāda: Body consciousness, that is ignorance. That is... Just like you are dressed with this shirt. If you think that you are shirt, that is your ignorance.
Guest (1): Body consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Just first of all try to understand.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you think that you are a shirt, that is ignorance, gross ignorance.
Guest (1): That's right, correct.
Prabhupāda: And if I have got this shawl, if I am thinking, "I am shawl," that is my ignorance. But either shawl or shirt, we are all individuals. That is (indistinct) This, this is ignorance. But ignorance or knowledge, we are all individual.
Prabhupāda: That's... You see? He does not know what is the scheme of Vedas. You cannot stop meat-eating all of a sudden. But you can raise some restriction. These rascals who are meat-eaters, if you say, "Don't eat meat," he'll never do that. Therefore, "Yes, you can eat meat, just after offering to the goddess Kālī," and in this way, that means, once in the month, that means restricted. Restricted. So, Vedas means they're taking gradually, not that, like a foolish, "You don't do this." You cannot do that. That is Vedic authority. The Vedas are meant for everyone. Those who are meat-eaters, you cannot stop them all of a sudden. Similarly, drunkards. You cannot stop them, drunkards, "Don't drink." They'll not hear you. Therefore restriction. "Yes, you can drink, after offering to the devī," and that means restriction. So what is the meaning of marriage? Because sex like the cats and dogs, stop it. Just get married. In this way, otherwise, you may say "No marriage." Just like, the other day these sannyāsīs come, because saw woman was sitting, they'll not enter. But I saw their teeth was so unclean, and the dress was never washed. But they have got this restriction, no seeing of woman.
Prabhupāda: That is saṁsiddhi. They are mahātmās, those who are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. They are mahātmās. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahātmā. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Kṛṣṇa, you become mahātmā.
Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16), mām upetya punar janma... (BG 8.15). No?
Dr. Patel: Mām eti janardana.
Prabhupāda: No.
Chandobhai: Mām evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.
Prabhupāda: Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary systems. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka—that is the highest—where you can get millions of years, your life duration, but still, kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viṣanti (BG 9.21), you have to come back.
Prabhupāda: Nyāsa means giving up, giving up. Sat nyāsa, sannyāsa. Oṁ tat sat. Sat is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when you sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa, that is real sannyāsa, not this dress. This dress is symbolical. That's all. Real thing is kāryaṁ karma karoti ya. Kāryam. "Oh, it is my... Kṛṣṇa wants, everyone should surrender unto Him. Then I shall teach everyone to surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kāryam. "This is my business." Kāryaṁ karma karoti, sa sannyāsī. What is that kāryam? Kāryam means this is kāryam.
Chandobhai: Yajñā dana tapa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You'll take a practical... My Guru Mahārāja gave me hint that book publication is more pleasing to me than Maṭha-mandira. So I took it and I began to publish books and that has come successful. Kāryaṁ karma. I took it, "Oh, Guru Mahārāja wants that books should be published. So let me concentrate on this instead of..." My creating so many centers, big, big temples, that is not my primary duty. My primary duty is to write books. Therefore I am going on still. These are coming automatically. Maybe this is the secret of my success.
Prabhupāda: So even in the universal form, there is personality. Divya-mālya, divya-gandha, kirīṭina, dressed, well-dressed. Well-dressed is possible not in the imperson. If you want to dress somebody, he must be a person. You cannot dress in the sky. "Here is helmet, here is garland." Where you put? (laughs) So in the universal form also there is personality.
Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "ābharaṇam-ornaments; divya-divine..."
Prabhupāda: You have to understand.
Girirāja: "Aneka-various..."
Prabhupāda: Aneka. So here is the word, aneka. Ana eka, "more than one." So what is that aneka?
Dr. Patel: Everything, aneka.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dr. Patel: Mālyāmbara-dharam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dress, everything, garment, all varieties.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms to:) "divya-divine..."
Prabhupāda: Divine. That means they are not material. Kṛṣṇa's dress, Kṛṣṇa's helmet, Kṛṣṇa's bedding, Kṛṣṇa's shoes, they are all expansion of Lord Sesa. They are not material.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms to:) "aścaryamayam-wonderful..."
Prabhupāda: Although this is virāṭ-rūpa, still, there are aneka, many varieties. And each one of them is personally described. Yes.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms to end) "Translation: Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths and unlimited eyes."
Prabhupāda: Unlimited mouths. The unlimited person. As soon as you say, "unlimited mouths," means unlimited person. That is not imperson. Even in His aneka-mūrti He is person. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter, that all we remained person in the past, we are persons at present, and we shall continue to become persons in the future. So this impersonal description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is for the persons who do not understand what is God.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24). They, these Māyāvādīs, they think, "Originally the Absolute Truth is avyakta. Now He has assumed, Kṛṣṇa, the form, accepting a body of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda. Abuddhayaḥ. They have no intelligence that spiritually the Lord is always vyakti, a person. Either Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, any way, He is always person.
Girirāja: "He was garlanded gloriously and there were many scents smeared over His body."
Prabhupāda: It is all personal description: "Dress, ornaments, flowers, garlands, scents." This is offered to the person.
Girirāja: "All was magnificent, all-expanding, unlimited. This was seen by Arjuna."
Prabhupāda: This is spiritual. Unlimited. Yes.
Dr. Patel: Shall I read?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is ṣaḍ-lakṣana. That is another thing. Before sex, there is a ceremony. That is called garbhādhāna. (break)
Śrīdhara: "...ceremony takes place after the birth of the child. The family members take baths, cleanse themselves, and decorate themselves with ornaments and garlands. Then they come before the child and the astrologer to hear the future life of the child. Nanda Mahārāja and other members of the family dressed and sat down in front of the birthplace. All the brāhmaṇas who were assembled there on this occasion chanted auspicious mantras." (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Mahārāja. This is kṣatriya king. Who has got so many cows to distribute? They cannot maintain even one cow. He is handed it over to the slaughterhouse. This is our position.
Śrīdhara: "Their wealth was in milk, yogurt, clarified butter and many other milk products. And by trading their agricultural products, they were rich in various kinds of jewelry, ornaments and costly dresses." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home. When there is the vermillion, that means she is married. When the, what is called, division? Siti. Siti is in this side, then she is prostitute. The dress, when the woman dresses with white dress, they are widow, no husband. Yes, in this way by dress...
Indian man: Yes. You can recognize here. But now they are changed completely.
Indian man: Yes. You can recognize here. But now they are changed completely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the girl has no this covering, that means she is virgin. She is not married. In this way all the signs are there. This is prosita bhartrka. Prosita-bhartrka means one whose husband is not at home, outside. Then she will not dress, she will not take regular bath, so that people may know that her husband is not at home.
Śrīdhara: She won't take bath?
Prabhupāda: Not, take bath not with any oil. Yes. Means she wanted to avoid very good looking. Yes, that is the idea.
Śrīdhara: "But although Rohiṇī's husband was away, she still dressed herself on this occasion."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...deliver each and every child to Kamsa, but in the case of Kṛṣṇa he did not do so. He did not deliver. He cheated him by changing. So to give protection to Kṛṣṇa, they had to do something, even it is not sanctioned. He violated because he promised before Kaṁsa that "I shall deliver all the children," and he did it. But when there was Kṛṣṇa, he broke the promise.
Italian Man (1): Exactly. I wanted to ask you about Kṛṣṇa in the heart. Could you tell us something about His physiognomy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. His physiognomy is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). That we can understand. Sac-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, He is full of knowledge and He is blissful. Sac-cid-ānanda. Your body, my body, is just opposite. It is not eternal, it is temporary. And it is full of ignorance. Therefore we require knowledge. (aside:) Little away, yes. So this is full of ignorance, and there are so many miseries. So Kṛṣṇa hasn't got a body like this. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand. They take, "This is hand. This is hand." He does not know that this hand is artificial, outward. Real hand is within. This is their misconception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand. These are very important question. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because within the coat the real man is there, therefore the dress has assumed two hands, two legs, one collar, like that. But this is false, like dress. Real... Therefore every living entity has got form. He is not formless. This less intelligent class of men, because they cannot see the form... It is so small... It is so small that if you divide the top portion of your hair into ten thousand parts,...
Italian Man (1): Your one hair into ten thousand parts.
Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.
Prabhupāda: One has to practice. It will take some time. (break) ...yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā. One has to practice. That means his determination is not yet fixed up. Because he is very rich, he is thinking that "This is all right." That is another defect of becoming very much rich. Bhogaiśvarya prasaktānāṁ tayā upahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are too much attached to this material enjoyment and..., by which his consciousness is bewildered..." All these defects are there because he is too much attached to material enjoyment. Why don't you give him dress if he has no dress. This is not good. You have not marked it?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? He's... Give him dress. (break) Give him lesson how to make tilaka. He has come to your shelter. You teach him. (break) Just like a diseased person, if he is a little careless, he is not very strict in following the..., it will take some time. It is exactly like that. He, because of his material opulences, he thinks that "Oh, where is the disease? This is all right. I am happy." That is the defect. We have to reduce. That is called tapasya. Not that "Because my tongue is asking me to eat something, therefore I must eat." Not that. That is the difference between ordinary man and gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means one who has conquered over the dictation of the senses. My sense dictates to do something, but when I am able to dictate the sense, "No, you cannot do it," that is called gosvāmī. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...dressed in shiny saffron. He is dressed in black. He looked like nescience and you look like the sunshine, standing next to him. He is wearing all this black with a little bit of red trimming on it, looked like nightime. (break) ...I met a Christian, and he said "You have got your guru and you are following him. He teaches you by his example. We have got our pope. He is our example of what Christianity is. He is the head of Christian order, and he himself is eating meat. Now how you can say...?"
Prabhupāda: Then how he can be pope?
Pañcadraviḍa: "But how you can say he is not the best Christian? He is the head of all the Christians."
Prabhupāda: But that means you are foolish and pope is also foolish. If he does not follow the orders of Jesus Christ, then how he becomes a pope? Therefore you are foolish. You have elected some foolish, another foolish man as your pope. That should be the right answer, that "If he does not follow Christ, how he becomes pope?"
Pañcadraviḍa: He is not killing.
Prabhupāda: Then why he is appointed as head? He must order. Otherwise if you are not following pope, then you are not Christian. He does not kill, then you should not kill. And why does he not order?
Pañcadraviḍa: He himself is eating meat. So it must be all right.
Prabhupāda: Then how he is pope?
Prabhupāda: Kāma is the basic principle of material life. That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad: "Both men and women, they are attracted in this material world for this sex life." Mithunī-bhāvam etad. Tayor mithaḥ. They are... Now, just see in this beach. They are coming all dressed, and the man is attracting woman; woman is attracting man. This is business, going on here.
Dr. Patel: You are really... Oscar Wilde has written once...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the fact. We can see it. We can see it. That's all. Everywhere the same business. In the Western world they are becoming more and more naked. You see? Mini, miniskirt.
Dr. Patel: What they call it?
Bhāgavata: Streaking.
Dr. Patel: No, no, no. What is that called, costume?
Prabhupāda: Topless. Topless.
Prabhupāda: These things are going on. That means they are attracted. Attracted. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad. They'll dress. Woman will dress very nicely so that she can attract man, and man will also do something which will, he'll attract woman. Mithunī-bhāvam tayor mitha... In this way, when they are united-hṛdāya-granthim āhuḥ, a very strong knot: "Oh, you are mine. I am yours." (laughter) "You are mine. I am yours." In this way they pull on this material life. And then, gradually, "Now we must have good apartment to live and enjoy sex life." Puṁsāṁ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etad tayor mithaḥ hṛdāya-granthim āhuḥ, tathā gṛha. "Now have skyscraper building." Kṣetra: "Land. We must produce food grains." Tathā gṛha-kṣetra-suta: "We must have children."
Dr. Patel: No, but according to the Taittiriya Upaniṣad...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is... This is the material life.
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Pancadravida: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, quali..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Law is there. (break) ...speak in all language, even in the animal, birds' language. Babudaka.
Dr. Patel: Keśi-nisūdana.
Prabhupāda: Keśi-nisūdana.
Yadubara: "Keśi rushed toward with Lord with great..." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...control his mouth.
Yogeśvara: "It is explained in the Second Chapter that the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another just as one changes dress. This change of dress is due to his attachment to material existence. As long as he is captivated by this false manifestation, he has to continue transmigrating from one body to another. Due to his desire to lord over the material nature, he is put into such undesirable circumstances. Under the influence of material desire, the entity is born sometimes as a demigod, sometimes as a man, sometimes as a beast, as a bird, as a worm, as an aquatic, as a saintly man, as a bug. This is going on. And in all cases the living entity thinks himself to be the master of his circumstances, yet he is under the influence of material nature."
Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Actually... Just like you are sitting in a different dress; I am sitting in a different dress. So the dress does not affect our actuality. We are human being. Similarly, the conception of body—"I am Irishman, I am Englishman, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian,"—these are different dresses. So one has to become free from these designations.
O'Grady: Accepted.
Prabhupāda: So when one is free from the designations, then he becomes purified.
Monsignor Verrozano: In our Christian faith the love of God is joined with the love for man. Are you also interested with this love for man, for our rivals?
Prabhupāda: No, love for man... Let me say it. Love for man is imperfect conception because God is for everyone. God is not monopolized by simply the human society. The animal society, the bird society, the tree society, they are all living entities, soul. According to our karma, they are differently dressed. That is the most important philosophy, that soul is part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, the soul is now separated from the service of the Lord, and according to his desire of enjoying this material world, he has been offered different types of body. So either human being or animal or trees or aquatics, birds, beasts, everyone, all living entities, they are all part and parcel of God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, "Never mind, I accept the next life a dog's body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that's all." This is their philosophy. No future. "Trust no future, however pleasant." In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyāsa. Everybody sannyāsa, bābājī. Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Mahārāja... To practice that "I have no more interest in anything material." (break) ...introduction of my Guru Mahārāja that sannyāsīs and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and..., just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that "You become a mendicant, possessionless," still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the nonsense education, result is like that. Is that education? I first, when I saw in Honolulu University—all hippies, all the students, half naked and niggardly dressed. Why so many? They are all students. You see? It has become a fashion. This is the education. And one commissioner has... You have not seen our Harmonist prepared. Collapse.
Satsvarūpa: I saw it yesterday. The president of Temple University, he said this was good, this running naked.
Prabhupāda: And another has that "education has collapsed."
Dhanañjaya: They have lost all sense of moral values.
Prabhupāda: Animals. The whole material civilization is based on animalism. Therefore now they are coming as naked animals. The basic principle of the civilization is animalism. Now... It was covered by the progress of time. Now they are coming to be naked animals, that's all.
Dhanañjaya: Just like in the forest. The animals, they select the lion to be the king.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. That is condemned. One who is not God-conscious, one who does not know that he is not body, he is animal. That's all. Maybe in different dress, in different... So you have to set up real human society in a small scale so people will see, "Yes." Because man has got intelligence. Just like, although I am condemning the western mode of life, still, so many western young boys, they have come. I never came to speak to flatter you, that "Your western civilization is very nice." I never said that. Why you are coming? I never came to flatter you, neither I never came to say, "Yes, there is no God." I am speaking just opposite, everything opposite. "You are drunkard; no drink. You are illicit sex hunters; no illicit sex." So I am just speaking opposite, from the beginning of my preaching. So why you are coming? So if you stick to your position, real human civilization, people will come, gradually. Because they have got the sense. When we say others are animals, demons, we don't say whimsically, capriciously, no.
Yogeśvara: Our temples. These big, big temples we have now.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to go everywhere. Wherever there is opportunity to instruct about this spiritual subject matter, we must go there. We should not have such discrimination, that city should be neglected. No. Why? They are also human being. They are misled. So we have to give them a little instruction. Everywhere. In cities there is possibility. Whatever we have collected, our men, that is from city, not from the village. So why should we neglect city? Where is the question? (break) All hobgoblin, the last word which I said, "dressing the dead body, decorating the dead body." The society has no brain; that means dead body. When a man's brain is gone, he is dead body, maybe he is living. He has no use. Just like a madman. He has got life, but what is the use of that life? It is already dead. Because his brain is deranged. Is it not? So if the brain is lost, brain is deranged, therefore it is dead body. That is the distinction between living body and dead body. A living man has got brain. He can work with his brain. And the dead bod... The body is there. Why call it dead? Because brain is not working. Brain is dead. That is the difference. Although the hand is there. The dead man has also hand. The leg is there. The dead man has also leg. But why the hand is leg? Because the brain is dead.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all. Their education, their advancement... He has no brain. What is the use of education? That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that snake is a snake. Do you think a snake decorated with a jewel on the hood is gentleman? Similarly, a man without brain, so-called education, is just like a jewel on the head of a serpent. Kim asau na bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita asks "Whether a snake with jewel on the head is not fearful? He is as much fearful as the other snake without the jewel." Similarly, if a human being has no brain, with his so-called education or no education, it is as good. The education has no value. He does not know what is good work, what is bad work, what is my aim of life, what is this body, what is the soul? If these things he does not know, then what is the value of his education? So the man is not satisfied?
Prabhupāda: Living, any living. We are all living beings. We are in different dresses. Just like you are European; you have got a different dress. I am an Indian; I have got a different dress. But dress is not consideration. You are a human being; I am a human being. Similarly, all the living entities, they are dressed in 8,400,000's of dresses. But they are living being. And all the living beings are part and parcel of God.
M. Roche-dieu: (French) Life is a whole view, and there is no division between animals and man.
Prabhupāda: Spiritually advanced man, God conscious, there is no such distinction that "Here is an animal; here is a man." He sees that spirit soul is there in the animal and in the man, in the tree, in the plant, in the aquatics, the same spirit soul.
Nitāi:
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The father is God, and they are all sons. But they have, they have been given different types of dress according to karma. So when actually one loves God, he loves all of them as brothers, not that only human being. That is not love of God. Then he does not know what is God. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll not find a single sentence where it is recommended that "Only love the human being." There is no such thing.
Yogeśvara: He's asking, "How do we see ourselves and how is it that we intentionally distinguish ourselves by dressing differently, by having a different presentation than the rest of society."
Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...
Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life. What right I have got to kill them?
Prabhupāda: To tell you that you are not following. (laughter)
Priest: But then there is no need to dress as you dress.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Priest: Why do you dress in that way which is an Indian way and not the European way?
Prabhupāda: Then why Christian go there?
Priest: They should not.
Prabhupāda: Then we should not.
Priest: Not because they do something wrong that somebody else has to do something wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Thing is that just like there are scholars, the scholars also go. Just like you are doing in India. Why did you go to India? Why did you go to India and live there and (indistinct)? Anyone can come to study, to learn how to teach. That is human society. You cannot say that "You don't come here." You cannot say.
Priest: I know, but for a European to dress as an Indian...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Europeans go to India, and why the Indians should not come to Europe?
Priest: True.
Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that "Why you have come here?" You cannot say.
Jyotirmayī: No, no. He's saying why are we dressing like that, like Indians?
Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?
Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?
Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.
Prabhupāda: Rather these girls, when they dress in Indian way, they look more beautiful. That you will have to admit. Yes. The same girl will dress in your...
Priest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So the girls, the women, they like to be more beautiful. So if by dressing in other way they look beautiful, why should you ask them not to do it?
Priest: Maybe for ladies and girls certainly, but for the dhotī and...
Prabhupāda: But we are not concerned with the dress, we are concerned with the advancement of spiritual understanding, that's all.
Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī, is this the guest that was scheduled to come at seven o'clock?
Jyotirmayī: No, he's not here yet (indistinct).
Priest: Have you got any French literature of conception (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: How they'll understand, all dull-headed fools, rascals? Dressed like gentlemen, that's all. Tāvat ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. A rascal fool is decorated so long, as long he does not speak. As long he'll speak, his nature will be revealed, what is he. This gentleman therefore did not stay long to expose himself. (laughter)
Bhagavān: That's intelligent.
Jyotirmayī: When this man left, he told me that there is a very, very, big actress. She's known all over the world. She's called Brigitte Bardot. And she's making propaganda now everywhere against slaughterhouses. So he said she's living around here, and we should meet her, and ask her to come and see you. So if she's here, we can try.
Prabhupāda: This mayor, mayor...? This mayor?
Yogeśvara: This man was explaining there's a very famous, beautiful actress. Her name is Brigitte Bardot, and she has become very popular now because she is trying to protect the animals. So she lives around here somewhere. He suggested that we contact her.
Bhagavān: What about him?
Yogeśvara: He just wants to...
Prabhupāda: What did he say about himself?
Prabhupāda: Original beauty, just like animals. They remain naked. So the, the original beauty is animal. Because the animals, they do not dress. In the human society, they cover. Animals do not cover. Therefore original beauty is animal.
Satsvarūpa: They say that this is, the body is made by God. Why cover it up? Nakedness is the work of God.
Prabhupāda: No. God said that you should cover. (Some French boys in background are making mocking sounds, yelling, etc.) And they are becoming naked now. (yelling increases) What is that? They are laughing.
Satsvarūpa: Crazy.
Bhagavān: Do we go left, Harināma?
Harināma: To the right. (more yelling, Prabhupāda chuckles)
Bhagavān: When there is big kīrtana party, then they stop laughing very quickly.
Prabhupāda: What are these buildings?
Bhagavān: This is a big museum.
Prabhupāda: Museum?
Bhagavān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because I am soul, you are soul, we keep our person. That is person. (French)
Yogeśvara: He suggests that we are only individuals, distinct, because of the bodily difference, that now we are persons, but afterwards we become one.
Prabhupāda: Not bodily. Because you are individual, therefore you have got individual body. Just like my coat. It is cut according to me, not I am according to the coat. The dress is made according to the person, not the person becomes according to the dress. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that to... He doesn't see the application. He says if we're just...
Prabhupāda: Why not application? Why not application?
Yogeśvara: He says it's more important to resolve the problems of why man is suffering rather than discuss whether the soul is a person or not.
Prabhupāda: Because he has got different dress, different person.
Prabhupāda: So the insanity is just like you are dressed and if you identify yourself with the dress, that is insanity. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he agrees. That means to be identified with the appearance.
Prabhupāda: So that is insanity. We are actually the living force, soul, but we are identifying at the present moment with the material body. Everyone is thinking, "I am Japanese, I am Englishman, I am German, I am Indian, I am white, I am black," but that is his insanity. So this insanity should be cured, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And when he understand that he is spirit soul, he should be engaged in the business of the spirit soul. And because he is misidentifying himself with this body he is engaged with the bodily activities. So when he stops his bodily activities and he begins his spiritual activities, then he will be cured. So far bodily, I mean to say, pains and pleasure, that will be automatically cured when he understands that he is not body. Just like I feel heat and cold on account of this body.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:. So it's a very responsible position, to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Therefore those who do not do that, they have been described, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One who does not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, they're all rascals. That is our test. A man may be very nicely dressed, running fast in the motor car. Ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" "No, sir." "You are a rascal." That's all. Finish all business. We don't give any respect. We can give respect as a formality, but we can understand immediately, "Here is a rascal." That's all. Is that correct? Yes. To find out a rascal is very difficult job? Simply see that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rascal. That's all. That they may say, "You are very sectarian." Just like a criminal, he's punished, and he may say to high-court judge, "You are very sectarian. You are punishing me, and the other man, you awarded one million dollars. What is this?" Because he gave before a judgement that "This man must get this one million dollars," and next moment, he punishes one man, "Go to jail for six years." So the criminal may say, "Oh, you are so partial. You are giving, sending me to cell, and the other man, you are giving one million dollar. How is this?" But he does not know that he judging according to his work.
Yogeśvara: This young lady suggests that the animals do have a soul, and that they also pass from body to body, and perhaps ultimately can come to the human form.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.
Guest (2): (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says the evolution was already before, because in the vegetables is already this process of evolution of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Every living entity has soul. The body is just like the dress, just like you are sitting here under different dresses, but that does not mean we are different. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Find out this, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).
Yogeśvara: Second Chapter.
Prabhupāda: You can take it.
Prabhupāda: Anyway. So vāsaḥ anna. Food. Vāsaḥ anna. Vāsa means residence. Anna means food. Pāna means drinking, milk or water or whatever. You require something drinking. And śayana, sleeping or lying down on bed. Vāsa, anna, pāna, śayana, and vyavāya, sex. Sex also required. Vyavāya, snāna. I have seen in New York. They have no... In a humbug, they have no place for taking bath. They have to go elsewhere. Sometimes some friends come to take bath. The, our students, they were coming to take bath in my bathroom. So snāna. So these things, nil. "When these things will be nil," vāsa, anna, pāna, śayana, vyavāya, snāna, bhūṣaṇaiḥ, "and dress," hīnāḥ, "being devoid of all these things," piśāca-sandarśā bhaviṣyanti, "they will be just like, what is called, urchins."
Yogeśvara: Piśācī.
Prabhupāda: These hippies, they are exactly this. They have no place to sleep, no nothing of the sort and looking like big, big hair. Piśācī. Piśāca. What is the English?
Nitāi: Ghost?
Prabhupāda: Ghost, yes. Ghost, yes. Ghost-like. Hīnāḥ piśāca-sandarśā bhaviṣyanti kalau prajāḥ: "In the Kali-yuga, the prajāḥ, people in general, devoid of residence and proper food, then proper drinking, resting place or sex or bathing and dress, they'll look like ghost."
Prabhupāda: So that different principle, for a devotee is already realized. Because a devotee never thinks of this body, that "I am this body." He thinks "I am...," ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." So without that realization, there is no question of devotional life. So that is first understood. That instruction is being given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna, that "You are considering very seriously on this body, but a learned man does not take this body very seriously, either dead or alive." That is the first realization. So everyone in this world, they are concerned with this body, dead or alive. When alive, they take care of the body in so many ways, and when dead they erect big statue upon it. So that realization is this body. When it is alive, very nicely dressed, nicely groomed, nicely everything on account of this body, and when dead, then again the statue, the tomb, that's all, but missing the active principle. He is taking care of this body even after death by erecting very nice memorial, but he has no knowledge where the active principle has lost. That is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No. Pure consciousness is actually you are. Just like water. Water is pure. When it is comes from the sky, it is clear crystal water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we soul, spirit soul, we are pure. As soon as we come in contact with this matter, material existence, we become impure. And there are three stages of impurity: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all of them are impure. Unless one comes to the spiritual consciousness—he may be a very nice man—he is infected with the impurity of goodness. He is thinking, "I am very big man, I am very..." That is also impurity. And another man does not know what he is, just like animal, all the animals. That is also impurity. When both of them will come to the clear consciousness that "I am part and parcel of God; my duty is to serve God," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.
Professor Durckheim: And this understanding has to be an experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is experienced, but on account of his foolishness he is thinking otherwise. He knows that "I am not this body. I am now in this body of old man, but I was not in this body, say, fifty years ago. Therefore I am not this body, that body or this body. I am different from the body." This is very easy experience. I am existing. I understand that I existed in a baby's body. I existed in a child's body, boy's body. So I have now changed so many bodies. Therefore I am not this body. Just like you dress. You are now in black coat, and next moment you can be in other color. But you are not this coat. You have changed the coat. Similarly, I have changed the body, but I am not this body. This is self-realization. First of all let me know that "I am not this body; I am living within this body." You are not this coat. If I ask you, "Mr. Blackcoat," that is my foolishness. You are neither black coat or white coat. And that is self-realization.
Prabhupāda: With the body. But the body is false, false in this sense, that you are not this body. You are simply... Just like I am occupying this apartment, but I am not this apartment. I am different from this apartment. This is understanding. So if you take interest of the apartment and you forget yourself, that is false. (German) If I simply decorate this body, apartment, and I don't eat myself, then what is the... This is false attempt, that we are trying... This is called. In the Bhāgavata it is said that aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Now, this body, just you or I, everyone, we are nicely dressed. But if the life is gone from the body, if you dress the body, is that very good intelligence? You have understood? That I am dressing, so long my life is there, I am dressing very nicely this body, but when the body is dead, if you dress the body or somebody or your relative dresses nicely, it is very good intelligence? (German) (break)
Vedavyāsa: ...example of this comparison with a room and the body is not very good because he says...
Prabhupāda: But because he does not know that he is not this body.
Dr. P. J. Saher: So at all times, "Remember Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Then worshiping the Deity, to offer flowers to the lotus feet of the Lord, to garland, to dress, pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam, offer prayer, dāsyam, serve. In this way, there are nine different processes.
Dr. P. J. Saher: We have a similar thing in the Christian (German).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Christian method, the offering prayer. That is bhakti, that is bhakti. (German) (break) Kali-yuga means fight. Nobody is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam. It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association. That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should give his perfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Weekly and planned.
Guest (2) (French man): There is regularly pūjā in your community?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here also, there is temple. There is regular pūjā, six times.
Guest (2): Offering light...
Prabhupāda: Light, food, everything. Dress, bathing, so many things. If you receive me, you must give me something eatable. Simply light, how can I be satisfied? (laughter) If you give me simply light and no food then how can I be satisfied? Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me this food." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad ahaṁ aṣnāmi (BG 9.26). "I will eat." (break)
Haṁsadūta: Cigarettes. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: Tin can. You can get also tin can in the slot? What is that? Paying?
Haṁsadūta: Oh yes. Anyone can get it. There's no restriction. Here's the car. (end)
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. This body, you can say, this is material body; that is also material body. But not this body. Just like you change your cloth. The other cloth also made of cotton, and this is also made of cotton. In the same way, you can say, "the same body," cotton body or dress. But you cannot say that this cloth or this dhoti is going with you. How they can say? This body is lying here. This body means this material body.
Madhudviṣa: They will say, "Some things you cannot understand. You must simply accept on faith."
Prabhupāda: "You cannot understand"—that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."
Prabhupāda: Because our vision is from the standard of the soul. The soul is there in elephant as well as in the learned scientist. So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means a learned, advanced, spiritualist, he sees that everyone is soul. The body, material body, is dress. Just like we are talking with Dr. such and such, not with the dress. We are not interested with the dress, but we are interested with you, person. Similarly, these bodies are dresses, different dresses, according to the price he has paid. According to his work, nature gives him. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Cāru: Ahaṅkāra vimūḍhā.
Prabhupāda: Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22).
Prabhupāda: "You go on pressing your nose. We make our business and go away." (laughter)
Madhudviṣa: He was speaking like that because our men go into the lecture dressed in disguise, plain clothes, and we are going in the audience selling books to everyone. They all get the book, and then, when he begins to speak, then we all turn around and go out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they did it in the Guru Maharaji's camp also. Hundreds of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is sold.
Satsvarūpa: Thousands.
Prabhupāda: Thousands. So we take advantage of this meeting. We do our business and go away. And they have no books. They have simply that pressing of nose, that's all, nothing else. They have no philosophy, nothing of the sort. What they will write? They have no philosophy. Simply cheat that "Press your nose; you get Bhagavān." That's all. And people think, "It is so easy. Why shall I go to Bhaktivedanta Swami? Let me go to this Guru Mahārāja." They think like that. And some of our men, feeling too much pressure, they go away. But here there is nothing cheap, that simply by pressing nose and eyes and you become God. Don't make compromise. This principle must be observed. Then you'll remain strong. As soon as you make compromise, then it is finished. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Then you can get rid of māyā's tricks. Otherwise, you may dress yourself like anything, but you are simply māyā's servant. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one... Ei ota kalir chelā: "Here is another disciple of Kali." Nake tilaka galai mālā. "He has got tilaka on the nose and mālā, kaṇṭhi, also." Sahaja bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo: "And he's, he has become a Vaiṣṇava by illicit sex." This is stated by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Here is a Kali's chelā. He has dressed like a Vaiṣṇava, but he is doing his bhajan with illicit sex." Sahaje bhajana kache mamu saṅge lana pare bhalo. You know? There is a class of sahajiyās?
Bali Mardana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vaiṣṇavas. Just like, dress like Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, and, but three dozen women behind him.
Bali Mardana: Yes, gopīs.
Prabhupāda: So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: "Here is a disciple of Kali. He has tilaka and he has kunti and he's doing this nonsense."
Prabhupāda: It is not their fault. Because in India a sannyāsī has become a professional beggar. Just change the dress and you can easily eat without any working.
Bali Mardana: And smoke beedies.
Prabhupāda: Everything they do. In our childhood we had a house for rental. There was a man. He was a professional beggar. You see? So other members of the house, they'll go to their office. He'll dress himself just like a sannyāsī and go for begging. (laughter) That was his business. (pause) Here in your country there is no such opportunity, but in India there is good opportunity. If you make a dress of sannyāsī, you can go anywhere, and you'll be respectable. They'll give you for eating.
Bali Mardana: Especially they prey on the women.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Our men have to change their dress before they go out, brahmacārīs. That's the only way they can beg in this country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We, because of our fallen condition, do require many mechanical means by which we can offer one another respects and to teach one another examples of scripture. For example, we are asked to bow our bodies down to show respects, or to call one another "prabhu," to understand that each person is a spiritual master to the other. How is a... How are the boys and girls to learn these things in manners of decorum and manners from the sannyāsīs, for example. How are they to offer respects to their godbrothers. And, uh... (break)
Prabhupāda: You can. You behave like that, others will learn.
Umāpati: For example, I have seen many godbrothers offer one another respects, but I very seldom see that in terms of some of our leaders.
Prabhupāda: So some of you show by practical example, guide them. Then others will...
Bali Mardana: One person who sees can lead thousands of blind men.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Very good. (pause) (break) ...not for rain, eh? Simply for covering the sun, eh?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: To serve māyā means to accept this material body. māyā will give you a dress according to your karma, and you'll have to work. This will continue.
Bali Mardana: Oh. So those who do not develop their Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully must again take a birth.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
- nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
- yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
- na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
- asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
- (SB 5.5.4)
This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue, to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease and he will suffer."
- vikrīḍitaṁ idaṁ ca viṣṇoḥ vraja-vadhūbhir
- śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
- bhaktiṁ parāṁ (bhagavati) pratilabhya kāmaṁ
- hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ
Acireṇa dhīraḥ. So advanced spiritual life means he becomes dhīra. He is no more disturbed by these material laws, and he becomes free of all lusty desires. This is spiritual perfection. So long you have got lusty desires, any position immediately you will try to same way snatch (indistinct). Never satisfied.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And others, other atheist in the dress of very good sannyāsī, they say jagad mithyā, mithyā. But they say also, brahma satya, they accept Brahmān. They are not so atheist, at least they accept. Then?
Nitāi: Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8).
Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence.
Guest (5): Suppose he is reincarnated?
Prabhupāda: No, no, "dies" means the body dies. The soul does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body annihilates... Body becomes old. Just like this cloth. I am using it, but when it will be old, no more useful, then I throw it away. I get another dress. This body is like that. Soul is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. It does not die, it does not take birth, but because he is in material condition, therefore he has to change the material body because no material thing is permanent. Therefore the aim of life should be how to avoid this material body. That is real business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is only business, how to stop acceptance of this material body. And that is very clearly and simply stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We can do that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are not going to accept any more material body. That means there is no more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more, and what is called, old age.
Prabhupāda: Identity is there. That, therefore, I have already said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. Both of them are identical so far nitya is concerned or cetana is concerned, but one is dependent, and other is maintainer. That is difference. Both of them are truth. Both of them truth. You are truth; I am truth. You are living; I am living, existing. This is truth. This is truth, but you are professor and I am something else. That is temporary. But so far you are, as living being, and I am, as living being, that is truth. But your dress and my dress, that is temporary. So we have to understand like that. In this material world we are mixed up with temporary and eternal. The living entity is eternal, but his body is temporary. This is the position. So the problem is: why the eternal has got temporary things? That is hampering his ānanda. Just like I am sitting here. Now, if somebody says, "Now you'll have to die and accept another body," this is not very pleasing to me. Or even I am sitting in this apartment, and somebody..., "No, you change your apartment. Come. Come here." Again I change another apartment. So I'll seek after: "Why I am changing this apartment? Is it not possible to get an eternal apartment?" That should be the brahma-jijñāsā. That is... Vedānta-sūtra first says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. "Why I am subjected to this change?" That is intelligence. "Why not eternal apartment if I am eternal?" That is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of western life or eastern life. The life... Just like westerners, they eat, and the easterners, they eat. Now the question is how to supply eating. (break)
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that the way we dress, our whole way of life, will make our movement only available to a few people because it requires someone who is prepared to completely change his way of life.
Prabhupāda: Well, when there is question of knowledge, only you will find a few people to get the knowledge. When you put this question, "Find out some learned scholar," generally they will be very... Their number will be very little. But one thing is that if there is one man in real knowledge, he can give the..., distribute the knowledge to many. The example is just like ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: If you get one moon at night, that is sufficient to dissipate the darkness. And there are millions of stars—it is useless. So it is necessarily not required that everyone should be in perfect knowledge. But if one man is in perfect knowledge, hundreds and thousands can hear from him and they can perfect(?). So it does not depend on the quantity; it depends on the quality.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): That even though it's outside, it shows that there's something special inside.
Prabhupāda: No, this enquiry was made by one priest. I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii. The priest was in his ordinary dress. He came. He said, "Swamiji, can I talk with you?" "Yes." He first of all he said, "How your disciples look so nice and full of spiritual consciousness?" That was his first question. No, everything has got process. If we adopt the process, the result is there.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How do we finance our movement?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa's grace. It is no sends us money.(?) We are spending about ten hundred thousand dollar per month. Kṛṣṇa is providing.
Professor: Ten thousand...
Prabhupāda: Ten hundred thousand. Million dollar. We are getting especially by selling these books. Our book selling is increasing. We are selling fifty thousand copies at the present moment of all these books.
Prabhupāda: How your body is covered in a different dress when you go to the prison house? When one goes to the prison, he has to keep his dress separately and take the prison dress. So anyone who comes into this material world, he has to take a material body. This is the law. Unless you have got this material body, how you can feel pleasure in material sense enjoyment? Just like on a stage, if you are going to play, you have to take dress according to the play. Therefore this material body is compared with the dress. That is stated. Find out, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya.
Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.
Dhīra-Kṛṣṇa: Because he was dressed and he didn't know that he was your disciple, so he was saying, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, he is coming in a disciplic line straight from Kṛṣṇa. That's why he can speak on all these books."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. That authority I have got. That's a fact. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakaśānte (ŚU 6.23). They become manifest, all the meanings of the Vedic literature. Yasya deve parā bhaktiḥ. (aside:) Don't come very near. (break) ...explaining last evening. Don't speculate, hear. That is the qualification. All others, they are simply speculating. How long their energy will go on, limited energy? How speculating will help them? It is not possible. It is condemned.
Prabhupāda: Manifest. Just like this coat. It has not automatically come on my body. I have gathered it. Similarly, life is there, and it is gathering the matter to dress himself in a particular way. This is the varieties of life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We give that example that the difference between life and matter... We say that the difference is that the material living bodies... We live in a material body, but the material bodies, when a living entity stays inside a body, is fully automated, fully equipped.
Prabhupāda: Life is enjoying or trying to enjoy the matter. Matter is prakṛti, and the living entity is puruṣa. The chief puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa, and we are trying to imitate Kṛṣṇa to enjoy. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Living entity is superior prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ paraḥ. It is a prakṛti, but they are trying to become puruṣa. This is struggle for existence. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...trying to live within the water. They are not trying?
Reporter: Swamiji, your movement has received a great deal of attention for, at least one reason, because many of your followers dress in what for the West is an odd fashion and relate to the world in what for the West is an odd fashion. Can you respond to that? Why have you asked your followers to dress in this fashion and to play drums on the streets?
Prabhupāda: This is our preaching method, some way or other to draw their attention. (laughter)
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Reporter: I'm sure that you're aware that to many people in the West, in America, in New York City specifically, that your disciples seem strange because of the way they act on the streets. What about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be strange because they are spiritual. You are all material. (laughter) So, for the material persons, we are surely strange people.
Reporter: Is this manifestation the only way to be spiritual, dressing in this fashion?
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot compete with us. Because we don't have any illicit sex, we don't have meat-eating, we have no intoxication, we have no gambling. There's so many no's which you are unable to perform.
Reporter: Swami, that wasn't my question. My question was, is this manifestation, dressing in this fashion, playing drums and dancing in the streets, the only way to be spiritual?
Prabhupāda: No, we have got about sixty books. If you want to learn this movement through science and philosophy, we have got our books. You have not seen our books? (laughter)
Reporter: Swami, that isn't the thrust of my question. Yes, I have. The thrust of my question very simply is this: Can't people be spiritual without dressing in this fashion and dancing in the street?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes, you can become spiritual in your this dress. Simply you have to learn what it is from the books. The dress... dress is not very important thing, but still, in the material field, this girl is dressed in a different way, you are dressed in a different way.
Reporter: The way we dress lets us move in all circles.
Prabhupāda;: No, the thing is, dress is not very important.
Reporter: But you have your disciples dress in this way...
Prabhupāda: But just to draw a particular... Just like the policeman, he is differently dressed. One can understand that he is policeman. Similarly, we are also differently dressed so that people may understand we are Hare Kṛṣṇa people.
Ambassador: Of course.
Prabhupāda: Not possible. If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible. Otherwise not possible. But we are all part and parcel of God. Accidentally, or somehow or other, we are now all differently dressed although we are one. They have to come to this understanding. Upādhi, designation. Now just like you are Canadian; I am Indian. Then I was just... In the noon I was thinking about the, what is called, goo goo, dodo? Do? The bird? Do? What is called? There is one class of bird, do?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Doves, doves.
Prabhupāda: So there are doves, there are pigeons, there are sparrows, there are crows. Now Iran, the same doves, same... Why they are not called "Iranian sparrow"? Why they are called only sparrow?
Ambassador: (chuckles) It's only people.
Ambassador: Like we did together in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. You have seen it. They were very much eager. They were very much eager: "Swamiji continue." And the others, like Communist and others, they became upset. I have seen many big, big officers. They were chanting, returning from the office in the office dress, and they were chanting and dancing. And you have seen the crowd, twenty thousand, thirty thousand people. The same thing happened in Calcutta. Now the government did not give us again that land. Yes. Last time when we held that conference in Delhi...
Paramahaṁsa: On the LIC Grounds?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. They gave us that Tal Kotara Park, you know? That is in the jungle. Nobody could reach there, and they gave us place there. (Ambassador laughs) Still, there were not less ten thousand people. It was not easily approachable. The motorcar cannot go. You have to leave your car three miles away to come there.
Prabhupāda: This has been... Body has been described as the dress. So the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can you deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can you deny this argument? You cannot say "formless." It may be, you cannot see it. That is different thing. But it must be form and individual. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they were existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and they will exist in the same way." Therefore all are individual.
Prabhupāda: You may have a big coat or small coat, overcoat, the form is the same. But for convenience (indistinct) or small coat. This has been, body has been, described as the dress so the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can I deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can I deny this argument? You cannot say formless. Maybe you cannot see, that is the way, but the person must be form. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they are existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and (indistinct), they will always be (indistinct)."
Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa.... Can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead that presents itself to man and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, yes, the original.
Prabhupāda: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses—so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" (break) Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the laws of nature, and still you are thinking "I am independent. There is no superior controller."
Prabhupāda: And they're making propaganda. They're thinking that the Americans, under the dress of religious people, the C.I.A., they have come to disrupt. And this is the position.
Devotee (1): So everything is the same as it was then. It's just the war, the actual fighting has been postponed for some time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the...
Bhagavān: Do we have any danger that...? I mean we are building such important establishments in India. Do we have any danger...?
Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose... Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares... So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they're thinking that "These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political." That is the general impression.
Prabhupāda: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Anāśritaḥ kar... Everyone is expecting some good result for his sense gratification. That is āśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. He has taken the shelter of good result. But one who does not take shelter of the result of activities... It is my duty. Karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty. Doesn't matter what is the result. I must do it sincerely to my best capacity. Then I don't care for the result. Result is in Kṛṣṇa's hand." Karyam: "It is my duty. My Guru Mahārāja said it, so it is my duty. It doesn't matter whether it is successful or not successful. That depends on Kṛṣṇa." In this way, anyone, if he works, then he is a sannyāsī. Not the dress, but the attitude of working. Yes, that is sannyāsa. Karyam: "It is my duty." Sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca. He is yogi, first-class yogi. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna officially, he did not take sannyāsa. He was a gṛhastha, soldier. But when he took it very seriously, karyam—"Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Never mind I have to kill my relatives. I must do it"—that is sannyāsa. First of all he argued with Kṛṣṇa that "This kind of fighting is not good, family killing...," and so on, so on, so on. He argued. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "It is my duty. Kṛṣṇa wants me to do it." Karyam. So in spite of his becoming a householder, a soldier, he's a sannyāsī. He took it-karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty." That is real sannyāsa. "Kṛṣṇa wants that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread. So this is my karyam. This is my duty. And the direction is my spiritual master. So I must do it." This is sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa, sannyāsa mentality. But there is formality. That should... That may be accepted.
Devotee: That is the proof it is false.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And this man has taken money for... And he cannot supply even maintenance for his wife and girl. You have seen Mālatī?
Devotee: Yes Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Not properly dressed. And this poor girl is not properly dressed. And he's thinking he'll (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His head is in the clouds.
Haṁsadūta: I think Bali Mardana became infected by Śyāmasundara. He saw that Śyāmasundara was going to be a millionaire so then he had to also become a millionaire. So he got Mrs. Toyota.
Prabhupāda: He got a cheat wife. Eh? Mother said she cheated that "I am twenty-six years."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many things she cheated.
Prabhupāda: Simply cheated.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, Kṛṣṇa may enter within anything, but still He is more important than anything. This is simultaneous. Aṇḍāntarasthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntarastham—Kṛṣṇa is within and without. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Antaḥ bahiḥ avasthitam—in Kunti's prayers you will find that Kṛṣṇa, "You are within, and you are without, still nobody can understand." That is stated. What is our experience? Within and without. But Kṛṣṇa is both, within and without, and still we do not see. Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā—just like a person playing on the stage, and his relatives and others they cannot understand that Mr. Such-and-such is playing. They are seeing something else. He is playing before them, he is known to them, but he still cannot understand. This example is given, naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā. So Kuntīdevī explained this. Did you not read Kunti's prayer? Kunti says, antar bahir avasthitaḥ. "You are situated within and without. Everywhere you are." But still the foolish men cannot understand. And why they cannot? Naṭo nāṭyadharo yathā. Just like one's father is playing on the stage, but because he is playing in a different role, or dressing in a different role, even the son cannot understand. So what is the difficulty? Hmm? Difficulty is mind; otherwise there is no difficulty. I am foolish, therefore... Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is visible to everyone. We have got two kinds of experience, within and without. He is present within and without, but still we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. That is my foolishness, that is my imperfection. We have to become perfect, then we will see Kṛṣṇa everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Who is here first of all? You are a person. I am a person. You are hearing, I am speaking. We are two persons. So why you say one?
Kim: Two bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes, two bodies, just like two dresses. You are differently dressed, I am differently dressed, but that does not mean that we are one. We are one as ātmā. Just like you are Australian, I am Indian, but as human being we are one. But as Australian, as Indian, we are different. Therefore we are one and different at the same time.
Kim: Is the ātman...
Prabhupāda: Ātmā as spirit soul is one.
Kim: Is one.
Prabhupāda: But as individual soul they are different.
Prabhupāda: Ātmā is not coming into being, it is already there. But at the present moment it is accepting different types of bodies. Just like your this dress is available in the market. And you are also there, so you purchase the dress and put on. Similarly, the different types of bodies are already there. You according to your desire accept one type of body, and you appear in that body. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and you have to accept one of them. According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher. He may be a very big dog, can bark very loudly, he has got very good strength, can create big disturbance, but he cannot understand philosophy. That is not possible. But a human being can understand. Therefore he should be given chance to understand the philosophy of life. And that is Vedas.
Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?
Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.
Justin Murphy: Well, maybe less enjoyment but more possessions.
Prabhupāda: No, enjoyment in this way of life more sense enjoyment, you will never be able to enjoy or happiness. That is not possible. That is the nature's way. (Aside:) You can close the door. If you simply want to enjoy, you can enjoy. But you will create more miseries. So this is one way of life, that you enjoy your senses and create more miseries. This is one way of life. And if you want to decrease your miseries, then there is another life, which is called simple life. Simple life means you produce your food and you produce your cloth so you dress yourself nicely, you eat, yourself, nicely, keep yourself fit and glorify the Lord. This is one way of life. And the other way of life, that "We don't care for the Lord. Let us enjoy the senses to the topmost capacity and be happy..." So this way of life will never make you happy. You will simply go on struggling. This is one way of life. Another way of life, that the human life is meant for God realization...
Prabhupāda: That is optional. That is also optional. That is not compulsory. But in India because the brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they dress in a particular way, they do that. But that is not compulsory. But it has got a psychological effect, because whenever we go, people chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" So by this dress, we give chance, the other men, to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Well, could you correct me if I'm wrong. We have a society called Ramakrishna Society, a society in Burma. Those people who founded this society and are practicing Kṛṣṇa culture, they don't wear those things, or they don't chant in their temple, but they do all sorts of social welfare type of thing. Is there any difference between...
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna Mission is not Vedic. It is a creation of Vivekananda's concoction. It is not Vedic. Just like they created a God, Ramakrishna. So that is not a Vedic sanction, that you create any fool rascal, a god.
Guest (2): Is there an animal soul, Swami?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is already said, sarva-yoniṣu, "all forms of life." Even ant, tree, birds, plant, trees, everything. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. All of them, the soul is there. And they have got different... Just like you are differently dressed, I am differently dressed, but you are also soul, I am also soul.
Guest (4): You're really talking about the ātman? Aren't you?
Prabhupāda: Ātmā, yes, soul is ātmā. And the soul of the soul is God, Paramātmā.
Guest (2): Is it possible for us to communicate with plants?
Prabhupāda: With...?
Paramahaṁsa: With plants. Is it possible for us to communicate with plants?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have done. Sir Jagadish Candra Bose in Calcutta, Bose Institute, he has proved—he has got machine—that they feel pains and pleasure, which is recorded in the machine. If you pluck one leaf, they feel. Immediately it is recorded in the machine.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Just like you have entered this black dress and I have entered this as colored dress, but as human being we are the same.
Jesuit: But to think that my soul belongs, say to a dog in ages gone past, or that it's going to come back and be a tiger or another person that...
Prabhupāda: Tiger is the body and human form is also the body, so if you want to become like a tiger, then God helps you to enter the body of the tiger.
Jesuit: I find it hard to accept that.
Prabhupāda: How you'll not accept God is so kind if you want to be something, He helps you, "All right you come."
Prabhupāda: I will be successful when everyone will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Copeland: But in Western countries, where people have to adopt to the different style of dress and a different life-style altogether, it means that you're asking for a very large commitment from people, and yet they do it. Are you saying that it's the strength of what you're preaching, or are they unhappy with what they've found otherwise?
Prabhupāda: No, they look very nice with this dress. Don't you appreciate?
Dr. Copeland: Uh, that wasn't in my question, That's... (laughs). Yes, I think it's very nice, I couldn't do it. I wouldn't shave my hair, and I wouldn't dress like that.
Prabhupāda: You cannot sacrifice so much. They have sacrificed.
Prabhupāda: Society... that's like your child wants to go to hell. But it is not the duty of the father to allow him to go to hell. Society want... Because the society does not know, the government does not know how to uplift the position of the human being. They do not know it. They know that the animals and we are the same. They simply loiter naked, and we are nicely dressed, that's all. Finished civilization. I remain animal, but my advancement is because I am very nicely dressed. That is the standard now. But the Vedic civilization is not. The animal must change the consciousness. He must be trained up a human being. Just that is... You say.
Prabhupāda: That is a foolishness. They are not eating meat for the last ten years. Do you think they are reduced in their health? Rather people say bright faces. In Boston one priest, I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii. One gentleman in plain dress, he is a priest, he said, "Swamiji, how your students look so bright?" And sometimes we are advertised as bright faces. In Boston or somewhere the ladies were asking, "Are you American?"
Director: How would you react if somebody breaks into this place and tries to rob some of the...
Madhudviṣa: He says "How would we react if someone breaks in and tries to rob the building?"
Prabhupāda: Rob?
Madhudviṣa: A thief. What would we do if a thief came in? In other words, would we be violent?
Prabhupāda: If a thief came in we shall punish him.
Prabhupāda: Better Gaura-Nitāi.
Devotee 8: So they have to do full Deity worship when they have these Deities?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 8: They have to do full Deity worship to have these Deities? Dress the Deities every day?
Prabhupāda: They are supposed to do so, but whether they are able to do so, that is the point. If you can worship properly, that's all right. But whether you are able to worship?
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, can a person go back to a spiritual planet without initiation?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee 7: Can a person go back to a spiritual planet...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no more init... Initiation here required when the living entity is in darkness. Just like uneducated person requires to go to school. One who is educated, in his full knowledge, he doesn't go.
Prabhupāda: Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. So His business was pāpī-tāpī? No, His business was with the most exalted personalities like... Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta. They were all very exalted personalities. But all of their mission was to deliver the pāpī-tāpīs. That we have described in our that small book, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya in Five Features. So pāpī-tāpī is everyone, in this age especially. But if we take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His mercy we get everything. So now Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda has come to Melbourne, very nicely looking. So keep yourself always engaged in the service of the Lord. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Śrī-vigrahārādhana, this arcana process, beginning from maṅgala-ārātrika up to the sāyam-ārātrika, everything should be done very nicely. And the temple should be made very clean. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. To dress the Deity is as much important as to cleanse the temple also, not that temple will remain dirty, simply you are dressing the Deity.
Prabhupāda: That is religion. That should be developed, that "Whether by my profession, by my business, by my talent, by my capacities..." There are different categories. "Whether I have pleased God?" Then it is successful. If you have pleased God by your legal profession—you are in a different dress—it doesn't matter. You are as good as they are whole time only serving God. Because their business is also to please God. Similarly, if you have pleased God, then even by practicing your law, you are as good as the saintly person. That should be the aim, "Whether I have pleased God with my professional duty or occupational duty?" That is the standard. Let people take up this. We don't say that "You change your position. You become a sannyāsī or you give up your profession and become bald-headed." No, we don't say that. (laughs) We are by nature. (laughter) So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you remain in your position, but see whether by your discharge of duties you have pleased God.
Guest (1): I know. You're brotherhood of man. But just my own curiosity... Of course, you have converts of all...
Prabhupāda: No convert. Actually we are. Just like you have got this different dress from me. That does not mean you are convert to the dress. You are a gentleman; I am a gentleman. That's all.
Guest (1): I don't know whether I'm a gentleman or not. I'm just a man, and pretty lowly as far as my own opinion's concerned.
Prabhupāda: So different dress does not mean converts. We are in different dress, American body or Indian body or this body, black body or... This is body. But we are within the body.
Guest (1): What is the symbol of the staff here? There's a symbol of that, is there?
Prabhupāda: That is a big thing to be understood. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is going on. When I meet you I say, "Yes sir." You say, "Yes sir." That is all right. That is social etiquette. But real unity is on the platform of spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita, he is sama-darśina. So paṇḍitāḥ means
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
"A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.
Yogi Bhajan: I said, "Why not?" I asked the question. I said, "Why not? What is wrong with them? What do you feel?" "But that's not in America. You know, we don't go and dance everywhere." I said, "You go in ballroom dances and you dance all the time. You drink and you dance, and you do what you want to do. And they just, in their own life, feel that they enjoy dancing right for God and the world. You dance for your own social contact. They dance for their own divine contact. What is wrong with them? Their leader, their prophet, their spiritual guide danced to God, and they dance to God. Why you think, why you go to the church?" "We go to pray." I said, "That's their prayer. Why don't you understand the prayer aspect of it? Why you want to understand how they dress, how they like, how they dislike each other?" And the second question somebody asked me, "But do you think somebody has the right to convert our children?" I said, "But do you think somebody has not the right..."
Prabhupāda: I never asked them to be converted.
Yogi Bhajan: Well, I understand that. My situation is sometimes people ask you a question about me. They think I am another religion, they can ask question of me.
Prabhupāda: ...Dr. Judah has written. Where is that book? That Dr. Judah's book?
Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not lament. "No, this body is no more useful." Just like this dress is no more useful. Throw it away. Accept another dress. But dress is old, now it is useless, that does not (mean) you are useless. You accept another dress. That's all.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but my question was what distinguishes the soul from the body? Because here we're mentioning everything that is the field of activity, but then what is the soul?
Prabhupāda: He is acting on the field. If the field is not acting, the soul is not there. Just like field, agricultural field, when you see the food grains are growing, the grass is there nicely, the paddy is growing nicely, you know, "Somebody is working." And in the jungle, where there is no paddy field, it is simply jungle, you know nobody is working. Where is the difficulty? When these things are in working order, then you know the soul is there. And it is decomposing, lying on the field and birds are coming, eating, dogs are biting—that means the soul is not there. This is distinction. Where is the difficulty? When the motor car is standing on the middle road, you know, "There is no driver. It is left over." Although the big machine, but because there is no driver, it is lying uncared for.
Dr. Crossley: I think one of the things that Peter is saying, though, that I haven't really heard you address is that... He's not saying that he doesn't believe. He's saying that he has the same experiences as all the young people here, but he doesn't dress this way. He doesn't chant. He doesn't choose to call this praise to Kṛṣṇa. He chooses to call it something else. How is it essentially different? He's saying it's essentially the same.
Prabhupāda: That he can say also that he does not dress like him, that's all. Not different. Difference is that... We are all differently dressed. It is not that every one of us who is sitting down not differently dressed. But we are not talking of the dress. We are talking ourselves. When I talk with you, you talk with me, you are not concerning about my dress or I am concerning your dress; I am talking with you as gentleman, that's all. What is the impediment of the dress? Anyone can dress as he likes. But he is a gentleman; you are a gentleman. Talk like a gentleman, that's all.
Dr. Crossley: If anyone can dress as he likes, then why do you all dress alike?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we already are. Just find out anyone who is equally dressed with you. Find out anyone. You are differently dressed from me, from them. And if you criticize my dress, I criticize your dress. That's all. Then you go on criticizing dress. Where is the talk between gentlemen? That is our disease, that we are concerned with the dress, this body, not the person who has the dress. That is our disease.
Prabhupāda: They are dressing nicely?
Nitāi: Yes, very nicely. (break)
Prabhupāda: We have decided to finish these seventeen books pending, within two months. So make your program, how to do it. It must be done.
Rādhā-vallabha: You're including the Fifth Canto. Is that right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhā-vallabha: You're including the Fifth Canto when you say seventeen books.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. Fifth Canto also by the end of August, for Vyāsa-pūjā day.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...you will find today's text. It has given very nice example, that the prostitute changes her dress to attract people. Similarly, we are changing our dress for sense gratification. Yes. (break) Nature, material nature, has been described as the prostitute, and we are trying to become the husband of the prostitute. Has anyone become happy by becoming husband of a prostitute? (laughs) (break) ...Paṇḍita has said, duṣṭā bhāryā śāṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, sasarpe ca gṛhe vāso mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ. A prostitute wife, duṣṭā bhāryā, and dupli..., what is called, duplicity? One who speaks something and heard something? What is called? Hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.
Bhāvānanda: In Laguna Beach they also.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...
Brahmānanda: He has dedicated his book, "To the parents and to the devotees."
Prabhupāda: He has tried to pacify the parents.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...Dakṣa accused Nārada that "My sons were not out of the three kinds of debts." One debt is debtor to the saintly sages. Just like we are reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we are indebted to Vyāsadeva. He has given such literature, and we are taking advantage of it. As such, especially the brāhmaṇas, they have got indebtedness to big sages and saintly person. They receive knowledge from them. And they are indebtor to the demigods. Therefore they have to perform yajñas. And they are indebtor to their father because the father has brought them to this world. So in this way, especially a brāhmaṇa is indebted to demigods, the past sages, and the father. So the indebtedness to the sages is performed by becoming brahmacārī, and to the demigods by offering sacrifices, and to the father by begetting children, to continue the progeny. So Nārada Muni was accused that "You keep them indebted to these principles, so how they can be liberated? Simply by dressing like you, (laughs) a mendicant?" Accusing. But perhaps he did not know.
Prabhupāda: Here also they say. Just like in Bombay, the Bandra(?).
Harikeśa: Ah, terrible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's Viṣṇujana doing? (break) ...Deity, I've never seen it. He gets up early in the morning, wakes Him up, cooks for Him, then we offer ārati, then bathing and dressing the Deity, sings for Him all day. He's so devoted to Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, arcana-siddhi. By simply worshiping Deity one can become perfect. Arcana-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a great advantage of our bus. Now we just traveled for two days in a row from San Francisco, but we did not miss one ārati, we had six āratis, full prasādam. We took bath on the bus in our shower room. We had regular classes, kīrtana all day. It was undisturbed.
Prabhupāda: So why not one week with them? I am prepared. (end)
Prabhupāda: That example is given, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like your dress, when it is useless, you throw it away and take another dress. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya gṛhṇāti naraḥ aparāṇi. You accept another set of dress. Clearly explained. (break) ...also very scientific. Just like according to your last life's desires, you have got this dress, this body. So it is going on, going on, going on. Now you are creating another set of desires in this life. So you require a different dress. Then you begin another satisfaction of your desires. This is going on. Karmāṇa daiva-netreṇa: (SB 3.31.1) by your karma, you are creating a situation. Just like the criminal, he has created a situation; he cannot live anymore outside the jail. "Come on, here." He will go in automatically. So they do not know how nature is working. It is clearly said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). "Nature is working, and that nature is working," mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), "under My superintendence." Everything is there. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. Jagat, it is changing, always changing. How it is changing? Under the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.
Prabhupāda: So they were habituated to all... Because that is a system in the European, American life. But now they are free. That is Professor Judah's remark in his letter. Have you got that? Yes. He has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, about our movement. He has read all our books. Here are, you have shown all these books? So he appreciates, many gentlemen appreciate, even the priestly class, they also appreciate. So this is a movement which is trying to create at least a section to become first-class. The first-class man does not mean that he is nicely dressed or very rich or very opulent. Generally, of course, a first-class man means good parentage, good education, good looking and nicely rich. That is the standard. But... That may be first-class position, but first-class man is different. First-class man means he is self-controlled, in the mind he is undisturbed, he is truthful, he is very clean, inside and outside, he is very simple, tolerant, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge, and believe in God. This is first-class man. There is no mention that he is rich, he is beautiful, bodily, or he is educated. Educated, this is a result of education. Real education means that he is self controlled.
Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."
Prabhupāda: In advertisement also. Woman's pictures are so many. So why they are taking woman's picture? We also say that maidservant, 1920... Now she has become. Like the woman... There are many men like that. Why not men? Why they are taking advantage of the woman? Why there is no protest, that "Why you are taken?" There are many men who has improved from 1920 up to date. Why don't you give that picture. Why woman's picture? Where is the protest? Whenever there is some fashion dress, the woman's picture is given. Why? Is there any protest by the women for this that, "Why you are taking advantage of woman"?
Jagadīśa: These days the men are doing that also more and more, dressing up so fancy and getting their pictures in the magazines.
Prabhupāda: Of women?
Jagadīśa: Men also. Nowadays men are also doing that, thinking that it's so important to dress in fancy clothes.
Prabhupāda: No, dress, that's all right. But generally they present woman's picture.
Prabhupāda: Strange.
Śrī Govinda: Yes, in dress.
Prabhupāda: So is there any law that if the dress is strange we cannot worship?
Jagadīśa: They want... They have a...
Prabhupāda: But they may want whimsically, but is there any law?
Jagadīśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this nonsense?
City Counselor: It shouldn't be.
Prabhupāda: Then what can I do? If they go out of law, then what can I do?
Jagadīśa: They want to make their own law.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Prabhupāda: Then it is... It comes to the conclusion of suppression, that "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." "You are not properly dressed; therefore you should stop it." It is like that.
Śrī Govinda: We have spoken very sincerely to the other aldermen and Mr. Winfield practically is the only one who has responded.
Prabhupāda: So public vote. Elect Nixon and then drag him down. This is public opinion. Sometimes make him president, sometimes drag him down. So what is the value of these votes?
City Counselor: Well, I can certainly pledge that wherever I find and can identify prejudices...
Prabhupāda: If they become unreasonable, whimsical, then who can defend? There is no such law that one should have a particular dress in their church or temple. There is no such law. But they are insisting about the dress. What is this?
City Counselor: Again, I will pledge that whenever I can expose such prejudices on the parts of my fellow aldermen, I will do it.
Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.
Prof. Hopkins: What is the solution? What is the solution? Devotion to God...
Prabhupāda: First of all you know what is spirit. Then as soon as you know that you are spirit then wherefrom the spirit comes, or wherefrom everything comes? Then it comes to the question of God. And then we understand what is our relationship with God. And then if we act according to that, then it is perfect life.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa does not mean change of dress. Sannyāsa means everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa.
Prof. Hopkins: What is your view of Śrī Aurobindo? (loud laughter) Or should I have left well enough alone? He is not an impersonalist, he's not a Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: He says that above the Māyāvāda philosophy there is something else, super. That is bhakti. (indistinct) ...bhakti, but he could not understand because he did not take any education from realized person. He wanted to realize himself. That is his defect.
Prof. Hopkins: So one who... You would see his effort to transcend, I suppose you would call it...
Prabhupāda: That effort was for life after life. Then when his effort will be successful he will realize Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: No, because you are rascal, therefore you cannot say that everyone is rascal. You rascal, you do not know. But we know because we are not rascals. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So we know. You do not know, you rascal. But we know. Then what is the answer?
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Well, I said that once to a professor, and I was dressed in plain clothes, and then he became very upset, and he said, "I thought I was talking to a book salesman, and now I find out that you're a preacher."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is gentleman. He has admitted. A gentleman, if he commits some mistake, he admits, "Yes." He is gentleman. And if he persists on his mistake, he is rascal. He is a rascal. So he is a gentleman. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Kṛṣṇa-kathā, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'..., what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkha. You can dress yourself, very nice gentleman. People will res...But as soon as you talk nonsense—"Oh, here is a rascal," that's all. That is going on. They are... In the name of scientist, philosopher, they are talking nonsense and exposing themselves that they are all rascals.
Prabhupāda: Because in beginning is mistaken. (break) ...your education from wrong platform, then whole thing is wrong. (break)...study means that "I am this dress," then do you study me properly? So that is their intelligence. They are studying, Darwin studying, this body and no knowledge of the proprietor of the body. (break)
Rādhā-vallabha: They argue that this Vedic philosophy is coming from India, and in India there is so much disease and so many problems, but here, where we have our science, there is no disease.
Prabhupāda: Because they are now fond of you. The Indians have become infected by you; therefore they are diseased. You are all diseased, and now you infected them, they have also become diseased.
Devotee (4): Srila Prabhupāda? A materialist or someone who wouldn't know, he may say that when the bull is not plowing, all he is doing is eating. You have to pay money to feed him grain or to grow grain to feed the bull. Prabhupāda: They will grow, and they will eat. Rather, they will help you for your eating. The father also eats, but he maintains the family. Therefore the bull is considered as father and the cow as mother. Mother gives milk, and the bull grows food grains for man. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu first challenged that Kazi that "What is your religion, that you eat your father and mother?" Both the bulls and the cows are important because the bull will produce food grain and the cow will give supply milk. They should be utilized properly. That is human intelligence.
Bhāgavata: If we build up enough trade, tourist trade, like that in the guesthouse, then Māyāpur can maintain itself very easily.
Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?
Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.
Brahmānanda: So the Ramakrishna philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna philosophy is nonsense.
Brahmānanda: I know. (laughter) They say it doesn't matter what kind of dress you wear.
Prabhupāda: But "They say..." They are rascals. They can say anything. Chagale ki na khaya pagāle ki na bale: "A madman, what does he not say, and a goat, what does he not eat?" (laughter)
Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?
Kartikeya: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...enter. Not the cows.
Indian man (4): Physical world, this earth is there. Are there any other earthly planets of this type where human beings or other beings are staying other than spiritual beings?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: It is now in the middle of the street.
Dr. Patel: The government of this country is going on everywhere.
Prabhupāda: We have nothing to do. We are world, but it is in the middle of the street.
Dr. Patel: I have got a killa. (?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. It has dignified.
Dr. Patel: They ought to thicken wall with a little under because this kaccā wall foundation is there. They should make it... This wall. They should dress it up, the foundation, which is above. No? You are going away today?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: This saffron robe is not very essential, or cut the hair, but it creates some good situation, mental. You see? Just like a military man, when he is dressed properly he gets some energy to feel like a military man. But it does not mean that unless you are dressed, you cannot fight. It does not mean. So God consciousness can be revived in any condition, without any check. But these conditions are helpful, helpful. Therefore it is prescribed that "You live like this," "You dress like this," "You eat like this," "You do like this." These are convenient. These are convenient. So they are not essential. At the same time, if we take to these processes, then it will be helpful.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. It is going on like that. They have no standard method. We are presenting the standard method. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. As it is, without any malinterpretation, we are presenting as it is. This is standard.
Faill: Yes. If you begin dressing things up, they change. And the size of the movement now? Is it a growing movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it is very much growing. You will be surprised that we are selling these books... We have got about fifty books like this, and every library, college, professor, universities, they are very much appreciative of this, because there was no such literature existent. This is the new contribution to the world.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.
Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.
Prabhupāda: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are increasing sex life, and actually the advancement of knowledge should be decreasing sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know what is knowledge. The knowledge means sex life. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex life, how to take shelter of abortion, child-killing, and then contraceptive method—whole thing on the basis of sex life. That's all. They do not know except these things. They know there is botheration after sex life, but they cannot give it up. Therefore all these arrangements: take contraceptive, kill child, and what... That means the whole thing is based on sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Is that pleasure? They think it is pleasure to unite the urinals. (laughter) And this is pleasure, a standard of pleasure most third class, fourth class. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ tuccham: very abominable. Tuccham, the śāstra says, "most abominable." And they take it pleasure, and they make arrangement for this. When the dog enjoys sex life... Therefore they are allowed to do it on the street. People can see it. Is that very nice scene? The same thing is done by the human being, and they are taking: "This is all, everything." This is basic principle of their happiness. That's all. Mohinī, mohinī. This is captivation. And nature has made the woman's face so attractive, beautiful, their breast, their hips, attractive, their sound, talking, singing, all very attractive, walking, and now they are dressing naked.
Prabhupāda: So now the older section of the Indians, they should give up their family life and live in this temple, cultivate this spiritual life and preach. You see. There will be very nice relationship.
Indian woman: Everyone, every state, this is true. Sometimes I go to preaching. I not looking "Asian," or such and such. Anyone I go to preach.
Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.
Indian man (2): ...of anecdote where gopīs, you know? When gopīs' dress were taken by Kṛṣṇa, He wanted these gopīs to give away all their humility and humbleness, to show everything. "Then only, unless you surrender to Me, you cannot have any salvation." So when they took out all their dress and then went prayed before Him without any dress, then only they have become muktas. Like that Draupadi also. When Duhsasana...
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī interpretation.
Indian man (2): No, that is what I...
Prabhupāda: Why should you interpret? Gopīs prayed Kṛṣṇa and all the Katyāyanī devīs that "Let Kṛṣṇa become our husband." So Kṛṣṇa fulfilled their desire because a woman can become naked only before husband. That is the purport, no other interpretation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when that so many gopīs called, "So you wanted Me as your husband? All right, I become your husband." That's all. Because for a woman there is no shame before husband.
Prabhupāda: You may call anything, but there is no religion. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samanaḥ. They are animals, that's all. The modern civilized man is nothing but an animal-dressed animal, two-legged animal. The animals are four-legged, and these animals are two-legged, that's all. Or big animal. (break)...varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The leaders of this modern civilization, they are being praised by other animals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). Śva means dog and...
Dr. Patel: Kharāḥ means asses.
Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ... Viḍ-varāha means hogs, and uṣṭra means camel, and kharaḥ means gadha, ass. So these leaders are being praised by these animals: dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. And they are thinking they are very big men. What is the value of prayers offered by dogs, hogs, asses and camels? The general people are dogs, hogs, camels. I think you have read. I have explained how they are camel, how they are dog, how they are hog, and how they are ass. I have explained this.
Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.
Dr. Patel: The modern education has become a farce in that dress.
Prabhupāda: Farce, yes. No education. Amongst the Marwaris, the respectable gentlemen, they don't send. They keep private teachers, paṇḍitas, for learning Sanskrit, English. They know that our, "My boy hasn't got to earn money. He has to sit here. That's all. Why he should be spoiled?" They know very well, "We can purchase these technologists."
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Everything farce. There is no education.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...our guest. Because somebody is guest, paying guest, therefore we shall admit anyone in any kind of dress?
Akṣayānanda: No.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't admit people who look like hippies or something.
Akṣayānanda: That girl, I told her she had to wear a sari. And she did for some time, but then again she stopped.
Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that sa yadi krīyate rāja.
Akṣayānanda: Due to habit.
Prabhupāda: Sakrn nasnuta pahanam (?) That is the difficulty. It will be very bad example. People will think... They already thinking that "These are all hippies." That will minimize the prestige of the temple. (break) Jaipuria House they do not allow any hippies. You know that?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaipuria does not allow any foreigners at all. They don't allow any foreigners at all, even if somebody is decently dressed.
Dr. Patel: Sir, lotus feet; these are, these people are actually putting such a long varga, I am trying to see the lotus feet of God here, arca-vigraha. Well, I am unable. Instruct them to put up, little varga up, so that we can have darśana of His sacred feet. Please. Tell them. Too long vargas, you simply can't see anything. You were there on...
Girirāja: That's in the morning, because of the night dresses. But after the śṛṅgara is changed for the day, you can see.
Prabhupāda: How He's sat tight to call everyone to come and see. Hm? The municipality came to drive Him away.
Dr. Patel: You see the present municipal, I mean, administration has fallen into the hands of rogue rascals and horrid people, you know, because of these so-called arald(?) franchise... (end)
Kīrtanānanda: It is not a matter of cloth.
Prabhupāda: No. Sa sannyāsī. Anāsaktasya viṣayān. He has no attachment for this eating, sleeping, mating. He is attached to Kṛṣṇa. And that is sannyāsī. Sannyāsī does not means dress. Detached. Sat sannyāsī. Sat, oṁ tat sat, the supreme, and for Him everything, risk all. That is sannyāsa. Anāsaktya... What is that? Bhagavad-gītā?
Indian man: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma...
Prabhupāda: Ah, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ sa sannyāsī... (BG 6.1). One who does not take the reward of his labor, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karam-phalaṁ. Everyone works for some profit, and one who does not take the profit, works for Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryam. Kāryam means it is my duty to work for Kṛṣṇa. In this way one works, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca na niraghir na cākriyaḥ. He is yogi also. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby) Just like Arjuna. He is fighting not for himself; for himself he declined to fight. But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants, "All right, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). I shall fight. I shall kill my grandfather and everyone." This is sannyāsī.
| Page Title: | Dress (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 01 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=206, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 206 |