Dogmatic (Converstions)

Expressions researched:
"dogma" |"dogmas" |"dogmatic" |"dogmatically" |"dogmatism" |"dogmatist" |"dogmatists"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: How do we know if somebody else, Yogananda, Maharsi, and all these different people that have translated it, how are we to tell that their version isn't Kṛṣṇa's word from your version?

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say if you are serious student, then you study Sanskrit, original.

John Lennon: Study Sanskrit? Oh, now you're talking.

George Harrison: But Vivekananda said that books and rituals and dogmas and temples are secondary details, anyway. He said they're not the most important thing, anyway. You don't have to read the book in order to have the perception.

Prabhupāda: Then why Vivekananda wrote so many books? (laughter)

George Harrison: Well, it's the same as in the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He said there is no use of books. Then why he wrote so many books?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is not dogmatism, this is fact. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break) ...you have understood what is knowledge and what is honesty?

Bob: In a way, in a way. Prabhupāda: And if there is other way to defy it? Is there any other way? You defy it. (laughs) If there another way? Girirāja? Girirāja: No. Prabhupāda: Is there any alternative? To defy it? We do not say anything which can be defied by anyone. That experience we have got. Rather, we defy it. "Any question?" Till now. And Kṛṣṇa gives us protection. In big, big meeting, in big, big country, after speaking I ask, "Any question?" Bob: Now...I have none. Prabhupāda: In London, we had, how many days lecture in that, what is that, Conway Hall?

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can discuss with these boys and girls. Try to understand. Here there is nothing dogmatic. Even something appears to be dogmatic, it is not dogmatic.

Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, if we just associate long enough, then it will act upon you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmaṇa or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no religion. Strictly speaking, simply some dogmas, maybe some moral principles. That is another thing. But moral principles we have to transcend. We don't say that don't follow moral principles. But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. So nobody's... Factually, religion means conception of God and the words of God, all over the world. Just like good citizen means he knows what is the government and what is the law of government. He is following. Similarly, religious person means he must know what is God and what are the words of God. So our principle is that we follow the words of God. God says, God says that "Always think of Me." So who can object to this, if he's seriously about religion? Why one should not think of God always? God says that "You think of Me." But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of? We have God, Kṛṣṇa, here. We can think of His form. We are busy in His service. We are not only thinking; we are trying to become His devotee. We are serving, trying to serve Him. Rising early in the morning, offering maṅgala-ārati, then prayers, then reading His message, trying to apply in our life as far as possible. We are not perfect, but we are trying to follow the instruction of God. This is our life. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. So you have studied that magazine. Can you give me any idea, what do you think about religion? What is religion?

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. They will not take the experience of Kṛṣṇa; they will manufacture their own experience. That is their folly. Therefore, they are called..., they have been addressed as mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Lowest of the mankind, mūḍhāḥ, they do not surrender (indistinct). They will not take the intelligence given by Kṛṣṇa. They will manufacture their own intelligence. This is their folly. Therefore, they are rascals. Our process is all the big ācāryas, they are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva, Kṛṣṇa's representative or guru. That is our process. And they are manufacturing their own knowledge. They do not know the system; they take it as dogmatic. Just like we speak of Vaikuṇṭha from experienced knowledge. They will not believe it. But they do not know what are these planets, still they will not believe it. They cannot say anything except their home planet. Even they do not know what are the... They have not studied all the corners of this planet. Therefore, they sometimes say, "Oh, this discovery, this is our first discovery." Discovery means they do not know so many things. That is discovery. When they come to know, "Oh, it is working like this, (indistinct)." But the things are there. So they do not know so many things, still they are scientists.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physicist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist... Anyway, because ultimate... Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is... You have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment men of knowledge they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they are rejecting. They do not bother.

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say, "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the best thing will be, they may not talk all nonsense.

Guest (1): They don't talk nonsense.

Prabhupāda: If they admit they do not know, why do they speak so much?

Guest (1): One scientist has said about matter. He says, "Matter is I know not what." This is his definition of matter. "Matter is I know not what." So no more dogmatism. No more dogmatism.

Prabhupāda: So you can distribute some prasāda.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why do you say? It is said in the Bible. Why do you say no?

Priest: You have to... I am not in relationship with any church or any dogma. This is what I have in my own experience, and I cannot speak of what others have experienced but what is my own experience.

Prabhupāda: No, no, God's relationship should be universal, not that... It may be a different relationship. Just like the relationship between husband and wife, relationship between father and son, relationship between friend and friend, relationship between master and servant, so these are relationship. We understand relationship means this. And it is particularly said in the Bible, "O Father." That means the relationship is as between father and son. So there is...

Priest: No.

Prabhupāda: You say no, but any man will understand that. You may have your own opinion, that is a different thing.

Priest: But we have to have the opinion which we experience.

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You ask, "Father, give us our daily bread," and that is experience. God is giving everyone maintenance. That is our actual relationship. In the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the God. God is also a person as you are person, I am person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānām, the chief, the Supreme.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He said that is the distinction between the dogmatic aspect between the Hindu religions and the western religion.

Bhagavān: What is that? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the western or the Christian religion are marked by dogmatists and they are very...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pṛthu Putra: And they have imperialist conception.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But he has no other knowledge. Without analogy he cannot understand. Then it will be dogmatic. So if you go this way you are dogmatic, and if you this way, analogy. Then what way he will take? (French)

Prabhupāda: But you are a fool. In your own way means foolish way. You do not know. (French)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The example is that this body, there is a living force within the body which is causing it to move and to work, and that living force is the soul. And when the soul leaves this body, then the body is no longer moving and eating and talking and hearing and seeing. So in the same way in this universe there is a greater spiritual person, and His body, in a sense, is this whole universe, and it is moving on the same principle because He is the supreme consciousness.

Deshimaru: But what do you know about the soul leaving the body? Maybe when the body leaves the soul, the soul also dies.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The point is that body and soul are two things.

Deshimaru: I think it is same thing.

Prabhupāda: You think, but how you can prove?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Same body means same material body. The form may be different. The form is actually different, because this form is lying in your tomb. It is not going. Where that... If it has gone, then why the body is here? That is dehāntara, another body. How you can say the same body? The same body is lying here. After death, if the same body is going, then why the same body is not going? Why it is lying here? They must be reasonable, not dogmatic. How it is same body?

Satsvarūpa: I don't understand their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Pure nonsense. Same body, how can you? The body is here.

Madhudviṣa: The body is rotting in the tomb, and then they say that the body at the end of the creation is reconstructed and reunited with the soul.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but not this body. Reconstruct.

Madhudviṣa: That they say, this body.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: "You cannot understand"—that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."

Satsvarūpa: Naked. Naked too.

Prabhupāda: Naked. This is hellish. (dog barking) Now this, another hellish life. His only business is to bark. The master may like to keep a dog, but if he is said that "You also become a dog," he will not agree. Will he agree?

Madhudviṣa: But whether he agrees or not, he will become one, if he is too much attached. (break) ...the chief engineer of building the chariots, and all of these people are his assistants.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: He said to that effect, yes. He said, "Your argument about a fisherman community is not completely valid."

Prajāpati: There's always a differentiation we must make between a Christian, who we might meet and engage in argument, and the theologian himself. The theologian is a very oily character, very hard to pin down. The Christian, he may have specific beliefs, dogmatic, tenaciously holding to dogma, but the theologian, he-

Acyutānanda: Well what does that...? What do they say?

Prajāpati: The theologians?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prajāpati: They are simply word-jugglers. They are not held nearly so tight to...

Acyutānanda: Well, then, what's some of the things they invent?

Prajāpati: Well, one we were bringing up is that theology is a means that faithful men are coming to understand themselves, not that are approaching God. One approaches God within a community and within...

Prabhupāda: That a faithful man understands God, that we say. Then what is the basic principle of theology? Why this separate science has been established as "theology"? Logy means science.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: People, various people read your writings, your commentaries, and they, they react to them sometimes with reservation because they see your writings as dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Prof. Hopkins: They see your writings... Some people see your writings as dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: Or "He is dogmatic." (laughter)

Prof. Hopkins: They say, "He is dogmatic," okay. Do you feel that you are dogmatic or...

Prabhupāda: No. You find out any passage in my book dogmatic, then you say dogmatic. Any page you open, where is dogmatic?

Prof. Hopkins: Well, dogmatic, to call someone else dogmatic means to start with that you don't agree with what they are saying. If I agree with you and you...

Prabhupāda: No, you have to agree. You open any passage of my book.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So they are dogmatic. Dogmatically they are saying, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." He does not know God and he says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." So what is this nonsense? You do not know God. How you can say Kṛṣṇa is not God?

Prof. Hopkins: I agree with you, I just... I want to get... (laughter) If we're dogmatic, we're on the same side.

Prabhupāda: We are not dogmatic. Those people who are talking us as dogmatic, he is dogmatic. He does not know God, and when God is presented before him, he says, "No, He is not God." That is dogmatic.

Prof. Hopkins: Would you... Do you feel that those who've had genuine religious, spiritual understanding would not have that kind of argument?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One... We say... I do not say, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that... Find out this verse,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the basis for scientific rejection of religious dogma is that in the Medieval era in...

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand? Now people have become, by education, advanced...

Bahulāśva: We should go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because they have these sprinklers on here.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Because they were fourth-class, fifth-class men. They will not understand. Therefore it is taken, "dogmas." The modern students, they are advanced in education, and these things are not explained. And besides that, their education is atheistic. Therefore they are trying to reject religion.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...

Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Nectar of Devotion you explain that there are three classes of devotees. And you say that the third-class devotee, he has belief but he cannot explain or give any support.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: Dogmatic, no. Why we should waste our time talking with such foolish men? "I don't believe." No, what... You believe or not believe; fact is fact. You are going to be old man. If you say "I don't believe," then is that a very good proposition? It does not depend on your believing or not believing. The nature's course will take place. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That will go on. What is there in your believing and not believing? If you keep yourself in such darkness that "If you believe, then it is fact," then you are a fool, rascal. If you depend only on your belief, then you are a fool. What is the meaning of your belief? "I believe if I touch fire it will not burn." Will this belief protect me? You touch fire; it will burn. You believe or not believe. What is this argument, "We don't believe"? This is going on. If nature's law is that you must die, then if you believe, "No, I'll not die," will that belief protect you? You have to submit to the nature's law. Why don't you understand this? You are talking of "believe and not believe." Whole world is going on in this way: "We think," "I suppose," "Perhaps," "I believe," like this. Where is science? Science does not depend on your "belief, not belief, supposing, perhaps."

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature's way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.

Prabhupāda: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Accepting?

Prabhupāda: This Darwin's theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey—why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First there was very primitive man.

Prabhupāda: No, primitive…

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Works or not works... Suppose it does not work, but still, it is standard. You cannot deny it. Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the scientists are not in agreement over Darwin's theory.

Harikeśa: Actually that's why they say we are dogmatic, because it never changes. It doesn't develop.

Prabhupāda: How it can change? If it is correct, how it can be changed?

Harikeśa: They have no experience of anything...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have no experience of any truth which lasts.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Harikeśa: So they say we are dogmatic.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: It is not dogmatic. When I say, "Next February will be very nice season," it is not dogmatic. It is by experience. Last February or many other Februarys I have experienced. Therefore I say, "Next February will be like this." That is not cheating, neither dogmatic. That is experience. That example I gave many times, that a child asks from the father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear son, it is microphone. If you speak, it will be recorded." So I take it from my father this is microphone. So I may be child, but when I say, "It is microphone," that is correct because I have taken from the authority. If a child is asked, "What is this? Do you know?" if I say, "Yes, it is microphone," that is correct. And if he, the man, says, "How do you know it is microphone?" "My father said." Then he is correct. I may be disqualified as a child, but because I have taken the words from my qualified father, it is correct. That is our process. I don't claim that I am very big man, but we repeat only what we have heard from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You may accept it, not accept. That is your business. Therefore I named it Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are speaking simply what Kṛṣṇa has said, and we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This is our business. Now, in the market so many things are being sold, not that everything has got all customers. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be accepted by all. That is the case in everything. But what we are presenting, that is standard. We are not cheating.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent. That is not cheating. So we say like that, that "Bring all knowledge and compare with Bhagavad-gita's knowledge." Now it is up to you if you accept this or don't accept it. That is not cheating. But these rascals, they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: "All of a sudden monkey once gave birth." And where is that authority?

Harikeśa: Monkey?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand, they think, "Dogmatic." It is not dogmatic. Most scientific.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they're all dull-brained. Satisfied with a few scraps, work like dogs. Would you like to walk here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Where?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This place is okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's very close to the temple.

Harikeśa: Nobody plays golf that early in the morning?

Prabhupāda: (break)...they have to manage, and the vaiśyas will produce, and brāhmaṇa will give the brain. Then the society will be peace... And at the present moment these śūdras, they are, by artificial votes, they are becoming the brain of the society. How it can be happy? The rascals, they are voted to the legislative assembly, and they are passing every day law which is never perfect. This is going on.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Unless he feels that... That requires philosophy. If you say something dogmatic, why they'll accept? You say that, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." He'll say, "I have no interest. I have no interest, why shall I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Devotee: Tell them that they are eternal spirit soul.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: You tell them that you are eternal spirit soul. Tell them about the eternal spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: That you have to convince. That you are eternal, but you are falsely engaged in temporary business. That you have to tell them.

Bhāgavata: We have to give them knowledge. Knowledge consists of telling them what is the field, who is the knower of the field, and the super-knower of the field. Once they get knowledge, knowledge is the preliminary step to executing devotional service. Once they have knowledge then they will be able to execute devotional service. And Rūpa Goswami says that one who executes devotional service in knowledge, increases his knowledge. Therefore the first thing is that we should give them knowledge and knowledge means to understand this body, the owner of the body, and the supreme owner of the body, Kṛṣṇa.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Just see. All dogmatic. All dogmatic foolishness they are propagating, and it is going on in the name of vijñāna, science.

Hariśauri: If they admitted the existence...

Prabhupāda: Vijñāna should be enunciated, vigata-jñāna. Vigata, you understand vigata? Vigata means lost. So vijñāna, you can make two meanings. Viśiṣṭa-jñāna. Viśiṣṭa, vi means.... Viśiṣṭa means a full explained knowledge. You can make this meaning. And another meaning you can do. Vi means vigata, lost. So vigata-jñāna. Their vijñāna means vigata-jñāna, lost of all knowledge. That is the word given in Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāprahṛta-jñānaḥ. This is vijñāna. You can explain in this way also. māyayāpa.... māyā has taken away their knowledge, and that is going on as vijñāna, science. māyā has made them rascal, and they are presenting themselves as the man of advanced knowledge. A rascal is representing himself as advanced in knowledge. That is the defect of Kali-yuga.

Hariśauri: Advanced demoniac knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Advanced demon. Actually they are advanced demons, asura, asurī-bhāvam āśritaḥ, being infected with the contamination of atheism, godlessness. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.... (chants japa)

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The hell or heaven doesn't matter. The next life is there. How you say "one life"? That is defective theory. Therefore this philosophy cannot be accepted. Anything which is defective is not to be accepted.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply dogma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process.

Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.

Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: It's not a question of religious process. You must know things are there. Religion is... Religion is that, because religion means to know the real law. That is religion. Not, religion does not mean sentiment. Religion means to know the real law. That is religion. If you do not know the definition of religion, this is it. Religion means to know the real law, how this world is going on, what is the law. That is religion. Religion is not a sentiment. They have made it a kind of faith. You may have some faith, but the law is different. So faith, a dogmatic faith is not religion. To know the real law, this is definition of religion. ...sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know that law, then everything is revealed to you. That is religion. Religion means not a blind rascal. Religion means he knows everything. That is religion. This is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Just like we are talking with so many philosophers. It does not mean that I'm scientist, philosopher, everything. No. We know one thing, Kṛṣṇa, immediately we can catch up what is the...

Hari-śauri: It's very surprising to people how we have such a wide scope of knowledge.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law. Similarly, religion means you may have faith or no faith, but you must obey. It is a must. It is not optional. That is religion. That, I explained it many times that (indistinct) means characteristic. Just like everyone of us, we are servant. So, the living entity is servant. He may have faith or no faith, he must be a servant. And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance. They do not know what is what. They are reading so many philosophical speculation, horrible condition of the so-called philosopher, scientist. Simply "I believe," "In this believe, that believe." You believe.... Believe something. That is your (indistinct). But your belief is not final. That is creating chaotic condition. You believe some way, I believe something, he believes something.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is dogmatic. This is not scientific; it is dogmatic.

Rūpānuga: He could not support his statements.

Prabhupāda: So dogmatic, you can say any nonsense, but philosophy and science is different. If he's talking on dogmatic platform, then what is his value? What does he mean by "soul is there" and "soul is not there"? How does he prove?

Rūpānuga: We were finding that there are some real scientific experiments like Pasteur's, the one we did in the slide show the other night, and some of the work of Bose, that have been ignored simply or misinterpreted. Already there has been some work in this area. So we were thinking that we could point to these as examples to confirm our position, because they are scientific.

Prabhupāda: Now, in Christian commandment, there is "Thou shalt not kill." So what does it mean? (door opens and closes)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These Chinese Bhagavad-gītās came, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body. The example is given. Why do you think that because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā it is Hindu belief? They say like that: "This is Hindu belief." What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.

Satsvarūpa: The history of civilization in the West is that for centuries people believed whatever the Bible said about existence, and then, when science developed, the Bible did not appear very wise anymore, so they... They overthrew all the dogmatic teachings.

Prabhupāda: They are dogmatic teachings.

Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.

Satsvarūpa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible. Then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien... So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.

Prabhupāda: That is not our point. We want to understand God through philosophy. "Through philosophy" means logic. Blind faith is not our business. (break) "...such date I have posted. You have got the literature. If you permit me, then I can show some of the books." Then our local representatives advise, "You go and see this gentleman." In this way contact him and leave some book with him, that "You first of all see. Then decide." Very honest business.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, they are not open-minded. They have to be pushed within the water. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's our first remark, "Please let's be open-minded. We are not dogmatic. We're not presenting something religious, fanatic. But let's discuss in open platform, see which one is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our argument. Just like this plant is coming out of the womb of mother. Everything comes from the mother. So there must be father. Anything you see, it is coming from earth. Earth is the mother. Dhenu-dhātrī. So where is the father? "I cannot see." You cannot see? That does not mean there is no father. There must be father. And the father says, "Yes!" Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The answer is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a very subtle subject. We try to present this bhakti-yoga among scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...and these physicists and biologists. We are thinking how to do it.

Prabhupāda: No, here is argument. Here is... A plant is coming. So yoni... The source of birth is called yoni. So yoni is there, the earth. But who begotten this? There must be father. Because we, our experience, without father and mother there is no generation. You prove that, that here is the mother; there is the child. And where is the father?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So now we have to push on this movement as the (heavy coughing) bona fide religion, but the most scientific, not dogmas. That we have to do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday I made a tour of Manipur to see a possible location for a temple, and I saw a nice place.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just near the present temple of Govinda that I was talking. It is a small forest full of monkeys, and they are so friendly.

Prabhupāda: Monkeys are very friendly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They're much more friendly than monkeys in Vṛndāvana. (laughing) I have seen that many, very healthy. There's some sort of welcome people coming. There are many. That place is some sort of a central place of Imphala. It's a very..., spiritually, a very conducive area. Many kinds of birds, and it's very natural surroundings. So I went with two of our life members, and they are thinking that maybe we can approach the government so that we can get the land from Manipur government, and then we can construct a temple.

Prabhupāda: That's good idea. Yes. So now organize things.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Rūpānuga: ...America we can make some headway. Because America, the scientists are very arrogant and dogmatic. They're not so receptive. Here there is...

Prabhupāda: Big, big animals. Big animals. They are animals, but big animals, because they have got money. "Money is sweeter than honey."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Bombay auditorium, theater, Prabhupāda was saying, could be used for so many meetings.

Bali-mardana: Conferences. Scientific conferences.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can give very nice slide show there.

Prabhupāda: So you make Bombay your headquarter. India means Bombay. And from Bombay you go and come. Make this...

Bali-mardana: In the West now Indian scientists have a big name because they are making...

Prabhupāda: And recruit Indian scientists. Make it. It will be very nice. Let us go to Bombay and organize.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'll be coming... I already requested Girirāja to make a few engagements so that... I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. So I requested Girirāja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. One of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gītā consciousness. So that would be...

Prabhupāda: That will be... (chuckles)

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The atheists, when they are convinced, they become first-class theist. One of my teachers used to say that anyone who is not easily convinced, he does not forget easily also. And one who easily understands, he easily forgets. So the Russians, they are strong. You cannot convince them by bogus dogmatic theories.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's very true. Scientists, once they are convinced, it is also very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is not easily convinced, then easily he does not forget.

Dr. Sharma: I've always said, teach the Russians that we have our own brand of communism or socialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already explained.

Dr. Sharma: Yāvad... (Sanskrit) The amount of material you need to fill your belly, that is your own. You can call only that much you own. If you think you own something more, you are a thief and you should be punished. That's what Bhāgavata says. This is the highest kind of socialism one can.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.

Mr. Rajda: Not dogmatic at all.

Prabhupāda: The same: it is science. And Kṛṣṇa says, begins, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So who can say anything against this statement? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). But unfortunately our people takes Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, as... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhaḥ. If we remain mūḍha, how we can be...? Because Kṛṣṇa comes just like a human being to teach us, we are taking that He's one of us. "Then I can also become Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. For so many thousands of years Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are millions of temples in India for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He is ordinary man? So many big, big leaders came and gone. Who care for them? Why Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped still? These are the questions.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: For example, my due respect for the medical profession, into which fortunately and unfortunately (indistinct) I have to tell this. Throughout the world not the best genetician doctor can prove to the soul of soul is the child of man. Nobody can tell who is the father. Medical profession. The real existence of his being is taken as sure faith. If the mother says, (indistinct). He takes it for granted, faith, (indistinct) praise the mother and calls so and so his father. Because he trusts.

Prabhupāda: Mother is called father?