Do not understand (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"did not understand" |"didn't understand" |"do not understand" |"does not understand" |"doesn't understand" |"don't understand"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is said, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. In another line...

Harikeśa: Harāv abhakta?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asāto dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Mahāmṣa: These demigods?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that universal form? It is nothing. Any powerful living being can do that.

Yaśodānandana: In the other Vaiṣṇava-sampradāyas, such as the Madhva-sampradāya and the Rāmānuja-sampradāya, they do not understand that Kṛṣṇa has His own planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana. They think that there is only Vaikuṇṭha and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Their knowledge is imperfect. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43).

Yaśodānandana: That is why when Caitanya Mahāprabhu came back to Purī, He said, "I have met many Rāmānujas, many Mādhvas, many Buddhists, but I like Rāmānanda Rāya very much because he has this knowledge of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa."

Acyutānanda: In South India there are very few Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa devotees. And what they have is from some Purāṇas, the marriage of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. They perform Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa kalyana, marriage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that bona fide, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Jayapatāka: It needs to be repaired.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then don't take it. Don't take it. Kānā goru brāhmaṇa ke dāna.(?) You do not understand Bengali? "Blind cow given in charity to a brāhmaṇa." When it is useless—"Charity. All right."

Jayapatāka: If the man lives here, what to do? He's a devotee.

Prabhupāda: You may go with your, this car, or throw it in the street. Don't take all these charities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's that verse about the puffed rice when it blows away.

Prabhupāda: Yes, "Govindāya namaḥ." Purify, govindāya namaḥ. Don't take it. Simply immediately throw it in the street. It is obnoxious. Immediately break the whole thing, and, part by part, sell it. But that is not possible. Ask him to first of all get it outside and then leave here. Don't allow this nonsense. (break) ...stand this space. Why? Why should we allow it? Useless.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the devotees question that the Kali-yuga is advancing, and in that sense the standards are deteriorating. Yet you are preaching that "Get everyone to the position where everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious." How in the Kali-yuga advancing can everyone become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: They do not understand. If I say, "The epidemic is increasing. You take this injection, then you can be saved. If you don't take vaccination, then you'll suffer." This is our propaganda. "You take this vaccination; you'll be saved. The epidemic is very strong." But if you think, "Now, because there is epidemic there is no other way. What is the use of taking vaccination?" This is no argument. The epidemic is there; the vaccination is there. (aside:) This is tulasī? Tell them. The disease is there; the medicine is there. So intelligent man should take the medicine, precaution, and then he'll be saved. Two things are there. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In Kali-yuga, if you don't take this, then there is no means of your save, safety. The two things are there. Why you are taking one thing? You take this thing or... (break) Everywhere two things are there: do's and don't's. So in order to make the process of do's you have to accept the process of don't's. That Nectar of Instruction, Rūpa Gosvāmī? He's instructing both the do's and the don't's. Huh? You have read it?

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise all rascals. Why should you go to a rascal? Immediately you can understand he is guru who has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He is guru. Others? They are all rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is under these four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. They may talk of so much knowledge, but they are rascal fools because they have not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. All the Māyāvādīs, they are all rascals. They have not surrendered. This is the test. Why don't you take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā? He is guru. One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, one is servant of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. That is the test. If you want to select a guru, you have to see "Whether this person is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?" Then he is guru. Huh? What is the definition of guru given by...? Why don't you read all these things? Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. You become a guru. How? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru. And you say, "I do not know who is guru." Why? Hm? What is the answer? Guru is defined by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We are chanting daily, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī advaita gadādhara śrī... Take their lesson. Otherwise why you are praying, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda? You, rather, glorify Hitler or Mussolini. Make them guru. Everything is there. You cannot say that "I do not understand." Do not understand means you do not take. What is the...? All right? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that means he is on the same level. (break) ...Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura on the gate is the proof how fool he is. He has not shown respect to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura; he has disgraced.

Jayapatākā: Now the government is saying that they have to knock down those temples because of the encroaching on the roadside.

Prabhupāda: Now where Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will go now? What was... What was your guru mahārāja's plan for where he...? I don't understand. I mean, did your guru mahārāja want a...

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statue was there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why was...

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda... Because it was their... My guru mahārāja never tried to bring him here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what happened?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did it?

Prabhupāda: No. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's picture was there, not that on the gateway.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Viśvakarmā: It would be easier for them if they didn't live in the cities, because the cities make it so hard for anybody to understand there is a God.

Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent."

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra. Ācāra. Ācāra. Varṇāśrama ācāra. Yes. Because the aim is... Again we come to the... Just like state affairs going on, but ultimate aim is to keep the government satisfied. Then you'll get everything nicely. Similarly, the supreme government or supreme governor is God. That is your duty, to keep Him satisfied. Then you get all direction, all facilities and life. That is the aim. But these rascals, they do not know what is government or who is the governor. They are doing anything whimsically, and they're punished. Prakṛti is there. Prakṛti is there. Government does not want that you suffer, but you violate the government's law. Therefore you suffer. That these rascals do not understand. They declare, "There is no government." So this is foolishness, ignorance, mūḍha. There is government, he sees, and still he is rascal. He says, "No, no, I don't care for anyone. There is no government." That is atheism; that is hooliganism.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes, Prabhupāda, when we expose them, their argument is, "Oh, you are a saintly person. Why are you criticizing me?"

Prabhupāda: No, it is not criticizing. It is opening your eyes. You are blind, you are thinking yourself as very big, so we are opening eyes. You are not big. You are not even pig or fig. That is... ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. You are blind with ignorance, so we are trying to open your eyes. See things as they are. It is favoring you. It is not criticizing you. (break)...words, vibhu, the great, and aṇu, the small. So these rascals, they do not understand these two important words, "God is great; I am small." They think, "I am as good as God." This is the folly. (break) ...English proverb? "Where angels dare not, the fools rush in." Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

Prabhupāda: So the angels, Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, they are offering their obeisances, and these rascals are claiming, "I am God." How great rascals they are. Śiva-viriñci-nutam (SB 11.5.33). Śiva-viriñci-nutam. Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they are offering their respects, and these things are: "I am equal with God." This Māyāvāda philosophy. Mūḍhas.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He was sleeping. The marriage party goes to the bride's house. So it was to be... The time fixed was at twelve o'clock or one o'clock. So the bridegroom was sleeping. So all the men made: "Oh, get up! Get up! You have to be married! Now you get up! Get up! Get up!"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: He did not know what is marriage. "Get up! Get up! You have to be married now."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in such cases they would live separately, though, until they grew older.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Until the girl is twelve, fourteen. She must be pub..., be puberty period. Then...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still, they know who they are married to.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they don't have any anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...age was at that time eleven years. So she came to live at the age of thirteen years, and at fourteen years she gave birth to a child.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Sudāmā: No, they become very embittered: "Why He permits us...? If He is all-loving God, why He permits us to suffer?

Prabhupāda: No, He's not permit... He forbids, but you...

Acyutānanda: You insist.

Prabhupāda: ...that you have to understand, that you have got little independence. That... Actually they do not understand that.

Sudāmā: No. They're not satisfied.

Acyutānanda: They don't...

Sudāmā: Then they say, "Why He give us independence, then?"

Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What do they say about, after reading?

Acyutānanda: We... Well, we presented that "If anyone doesn't believe in God, you must show this book."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: "Or if you cannot convince another, you must have this book to convince any atheist of the science, of the proof of God," everybody goes to that. And Īśopaniṣad, we say, "If you do not understand if God is a person or not person, read Īśopaniṣad."

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Acyutānanda: And then they pick it up. We tease them. And Nectar of Devotion also.

Prabhupāda: Science of...

Acyutānanda: Of how to train the mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why Prabhupāda corrected us.

Prabhupāda: So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four gṛhasthas, and you define how you live.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what about their relationship with the society? This point was to... I don't understand why that is being avoided. In other words, how they should live, that they should have a committee for, but the fact that the society cannot support them, that is not for them to decide. That is for the GBC to decide. That is my point.

Yaṣodānandana: I think that point, that's clear.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As far as their living conditions, so let them have a committee.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Guru dāsa: So the pure devotee is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So this question of freedom of jīva and control of Kṛṣṇa, that there is freedom but at the same time there is no freedom, is a very fine line between the two that sometimes we do not understand.

Prabhupāda: But why don't you understand? Just like you belong to a free nation, the American. Does it mean you are free to do anything and everything?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: With your limited freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There's a fine line between this freedom.

Prabhupāda: When you say, "I belong to this free nation," then yes, you are free. But that does not mean that you can do anything and everything.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: To break it as soon as possible. (laughter)

Pañcadraviḍa: That doesn't make any sense. "Crackpot philosophy."

Madhudviṣa: If there's no individuality, I can't understand how can there be any desire for...

Prabhupāda: No, there is individuality, but these people do not understand it, because... In the Bhagavad-gītā, acchedyam. It is not that part is taken. The accedya. Because spirit cannot be cut into pieces, and while it is in piece, either you take it in part or something else, that is eternal. It is not that by the māyā we have become piece. Yes. That is not māyā. It is piece. All right, sanātana, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7), eternally that piece.

Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Nalinī-kānta: I've been reading a lot in the different books about envy. You say that people kill cows only out of envy. I was wondering if you could give a definition of what envy is. I don't understand why they would kill animals out of envy.

Prabhupāda: Envy means the cow has got right to live. He does not allow the cow to live. That is envy. You cannot understand this? Suppose you are walking. You have got right to walk, I have got, and if I kill you, you cannot walk. That is envious. Everyone has got right to live. Just like the camel. God has given their food. They are accustomed to eat these thorny twigs. So Kṛṣṇa has given that. Let them eat and live. Why should you interfere with his living condition? (break) Do not interfere with others' right. Why should you? (break) ...think we shall take the car in Bombay?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think it's a good idea because there is no suitable place to store it here.

Prabhupāda: No, we can make a suitable place. What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It may take some time. I don't.... Actually I haven't been to Bombay myself. I haven't seen the land at Juhu. Is there a suitable place for...?

Prabhupāda: There is many suitable place.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is not divided.

Dr. Patel: That is what I say.

Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness.

Dr. Patel: That is what I mean to say.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like... It is said, but they are foolish. They cannot understand śāstra. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That the rascals, they do not understand. They think materially. Just like this flower. If I take little, little, little, then there is no flower. They are thinking like that. But here is the warning. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam... Even the whole flower is taken, still whole.

Dr. Patel: That is God.

Prabhupāda: That is God. They are materially thinking, "If God has bifurcated Himself in so many, everywhere, all-pervading, then where is God?" This is foolishness.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Devotee (2): Yes, that's correct. In animals the soul is there, but the consciousness is not developed.

Prabhupāda: Not developed. But you cannot say there is no soul. Sometimes they say foolishly that the animal, there is no soul. That is foolishness. Everywhere there is soul. It is not developed. So just like a child is as good as animal, but you cannot say in the child there is no soul. The consciousness is not developed. You can say like that. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 species of forms. They are different on account of different development of consciousness. A tree, there is consciousness, but it is very, very covered. If you cut the tree, it does not protest, because the consciousness is not developed. I have seen in children surgical operation. They do not require anesthetics. I remember. My eldest daughter, when she was child, she had some boil here. So the doctor wanted to operate. So I asked him that "Apply anesthetic or do something." "No, no, they don't require." And so the doctor cut the boil, and the child simply, "Ehhh, ehhh," no crying. I have seen it when they did.... No crying. Because the consciousness is not developed. Now, what do you mean by...? When you are unconscious, if your head is cut off, you do not understand. That is practical if by medicinal process you are made into unconsciousness, chloroform anesthetic, so that you don't feel. This is practical.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: What is the God that these other religions believe in? Is that...

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily. Because you are the proprietor of this body and you are given the controlling power of the body by thinking, feeling, willing, by acting.... You have got this body. You are sitting here. You can say, "Now I am going away." The body is under your control. You can do that. Similarly, when you understand this fully, then you'll understand that in this huge, gigantic body, material cosmic manifestation, there is a controller, easily. But if you do not understand yourself, how you can understand God? God is not different in quality than from you. God means like you in huge, unlimited quantity. As you have got little intelligence—you can create a wonderful thing, 747 airplane flying in the air—so God has got unlimited brain. Millions and trillions of universes are floating in the air. The process is the same. You are tiny. You are very much proud that "I am so advanced that I have manufactured 747." And just why not compare the intelligence of God? Such a huge lump of matter, the sun, is floating also there. That is the difference between you and God. You have got brain, He has got brain, but your the brain is very tiny, little, and his brain very big. That is difference between God and you. So if you understand yourself, sample of God, then you understand the Supreme God. But first of all you do not understand yourself. I am misidentifying, "I am this body." And that is doing.... The cats and dogs, they are doing that.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). These things are discussed there.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion. But Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything knowledge. Knowledge means you must have knowledge of everything, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical, chemical, physical, everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Noncooperating.

Mr. Dixon: Noncooperating?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically.

Mr. Dixon: I don't understand that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because we are not engaged in so many of the superfluous or unnecessary...

Prabhupāda: Material amenities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These things are described in Vedic terms as anartha. They are not very important or very valuable to human advancement. What is really essential is advancement in knowledge.

Mr. Dixon: One of the principles upon which I have lived is a question of involvement with the people around me in trying to do things better than they have been done before.

Prabhupāda: But you must know first of all what is the aim of life and what is better. That we must know. So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that we are not interested in God; then whole thing is spoiled. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are not interested in God. We want to be happy by adjusting the external energy of God. That is blind leadership. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This will never be successful, and it is blind leadership because we do not know what is the aim. If you know the aim of life and if we make program according to that aim, then it will be successful. Blindly everyone is manufacturing his objective, different leaders, different isms. The Communists, they have got different aims. The capitalists, they have got different aims. The socialists, they have got different aims.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So what is the church of Jesus Christ?

Guest (3): Well, Jesus Christ's church, that's simply it.

Prabhupāda: What is that? What does he say, that "You do this. You do not do this"?

Guest (3): I don't understand what...

Guest (4): You mean the Commandments and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): Oh. There's many Commandments in the church. We believe that Jesus Christ commanded Joseph Smith to restore the church.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the Commandments?

Guest (4): This is one of them, that the church should be run by a prophet and twelve apostles. We believe in what is called the word of wisdom. This is abstaining.... This is much like your...

Prabhupāda: Church. Church means.... Suppose.... There is no specific message that "The church should be conducted on this principle"? Is there any such message?

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You can understand, provided you have got the sense. If you are nonsense, you cannot understand. You cannot understand means you are nonsense. That is the difference between sense and nonsense. That I have already given, the example: the same whip, to the animal it is not suffering, but for a man, simply by seeing it is suffering. It is the question of sense. That is the difference between man and animal. The animal cannot understand that he is suffering. Man can understand. That is difference. If you do not understand, then you are animal. Now, here it is clearly said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is unhappiness. And if you think, "Oh, what is there, unhappiness in dying?" then you are animal. The animal are taken to the slaughterhouse. He is not disturbed. He is eating grass very peacefully. That is the animal life. If you do not understand what is unhappiness, then you are animal. You are not human being. But his unhappiness, that's a fact, to remain in a airtight bag for ten months. If you have no sense, "Oh, what is this?" And still being killed, is it not unhappiness? And if you say, "Where is unhappiness?" then you are a stone. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Janma is unhappiness. First of all you have to remain ten months in a packed-up bag and that also risk your mother will kill you, and still you say, "It is not unhappiness"? Then what is happiness? You are so dull that you see there is no unhappiness in birth. Practically see.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gṛhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all. After that, stop sex life. Actually, they want to stop population. Then why it, sex, then? No, they'll have sex life, at the same time, no population, kill the children. What is that? Simply sinful life. They will suffer, continue to suffer. So we want to stop that suffering. These rascals, they do not understand.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, on account of his false prestige, he is thinking, "Oh, I am independent. I can do whatever I like." Vimūḍhātmā, foolish, rascal. Mūḍha, not. Vimūḍhātmā, "especially the rascal, a special rascal." Ordinary rascal is better than the special rascal. (laughs) So all these scientists, philosophers, and political leaders, they're all special rascal, they are.

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Harisauri: The thing is that the materialists will always find that. They see the devotees and we say that we renounce everything, but they don't understand that renunciation means to take everything and give it to Kṛṣṇa. So when... Just like that time there was such a great commotion when we hired that Rolls Royce to take Your Divine Grace from the airport to the temple. So in the papers they didn't put anything that you said. They simply put "His Divine Grace is arriving in a Rolls Royce." So this is the general attitude of the common mass of people.

Prabhupāda: That is envious. So if they sell books, so that is making Kṛṣṇa unpopular?

Bhūrijana: But one must learn to be a good book salesman I think.

Prabhupāda: But selling book, Kṛṣṇa, does it mean that the booksellers are creating unpopular opinion? Does it mean?

Bhūrijana: Automatically, no.

Prabhupāda: When you say that they're making enemies because they're pushing this, what is wrong there? Actually, I can so far understand that you do not like to sell books, or you cannot sell books.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish notion. Just like the seed, banyan tree seed, every plan is there: how the tree will grow, how the fruits will flower, flowers will come. Everything is there. That is intelligence. Within a small seed everything is there potency. Aśakti vividaiva. Sarvavidya. It comes certainly.

Devotee (2): One thing though, people, they see that there's birth and death, they don't understand the purpose of the whole creation when they see that so many things are going on like this.

Prabhupāda: There is purpose. We have explained so many times. The purpose is that we have come here to enjoy, but this enjoyment is false. God has given us the chance to enjoy, to experience that this enjoyment is not good. They are simply suffering. They cannot enjoy. The plan is that he's given the chance to enjoy and experience that here there is no enjoyment and he's simply suffering. So when he comes to his sense, he again goes back home. The thief, he thinks that to live in the prison house is very good: "I haven't got to work, and I shall get my food and shelter." That is not.... That is a false enjoyment. Outside the prison, that is enjoyment. If one thinks that "I don't have to work; let me go to the prison house." Father wants that the sons should live in the family, but sometimes the son leaves the family and wants to enjoy independently. So he suffers. Jajīva (indistinct) māyā kare japoti (indistinct).

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? They must know God scientifically. That is the actual aim of human life. Suppose the dog is sleeping on the street without any care whether a car is coming and smash it. He's also sleeping sound sleep. And we are sleeping in a very nice apartment. So after all, sleeping. And he is also enjoying sleeping, I am also enjoying sleeping. So do you think to change the, I mean to say, circumstances of the sleeping? I am sleeping in a very nice apartment, he's sleeping on the floor. Does it mean this is advancement of civilization? Sleeping is sleeping. Eating is eating. Sex life—the male dog is enjoying with female dog. The sex pleasure is to him, and we are enjoying with a beautiful lover. The sex pleasure is the same. Therefore, you take some eatable, either on gold fork or an iron fork, the taste is the same. Simply like putting the foodstuff in the golden fork, does it mean the taste has changed? So, the test of eating, sleeping, mating and defending is the same for the human being as well as the animals. What difference, what is the difference between the animals and humans? The animal cannot know God. That is not possible. The human being can know. That is the opportunity of this human life. If we are missing that opportunity, then we are leading an animal civilization. This is not civilization. Animal life is not civilization. Civilized means not animal life. Something more than that. That is God consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is considered to be the watering process, and sometimes from chanting, the weeds, from watering, the weeds also grow along with devotional service—the weeds of different desires. I don't understand how it is possible that from chanting that these weeds grow.

Prabhupāda: Chanting is purifying all material desires. It will take, gradually. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If you are chanting without any offense, then your heart will be cleansed of all material contamination. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Bharadvāja: So pulling out the weeds means avoiding the offenses in chanting the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So long we'll have material desires, we'll have to accept a material body and fulfill the desires.

Mahendra: Sometimes, although a devotee understands that he must take birth again if he does not, if he is not strict, he thinks, "Oh, it is so difficult to be strict. Maybe I'll just take it easy and remain engaged in devotional service, then I'll take another birth as a devotee and maybe next time I'll finish up my business."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. He gets good opportunity of material enjoyment, and then take birth in good family, aristocratic or brāhmaṇa. Then where he ended in last life, he begins again. There is a verse: paurva-dehikam. Paurva-dehikam means previous birth.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One who understands Kṛṣṇa consciousness should want to finish the business of material life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore he's required to read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. It is said clearly, "This is a place of misery." Why do you desire to keep yourself in this.... That means you do not understand what is spiritual life.

Hari-śauri: Still thinking he's this body.

Prabhupāda: Thinking. Thinking, he's under the influence of māyā. māyā is dictating, "Why you are trying to go away? Come on, here, Santa Monica." (laughter) And when you become detestful either this Santa Monica or any Monica, "I am not interested," then your spiritual life is...

Jagannātha-suta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was in New York recently to check the color printing of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 7.2, we were presented with two awards which your books had won for color and design, two awards from the Printing Industries of Metropolitan New York. They gave us big wooden plaques with a certificate of excellence, yes, for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and for Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Hṛdayānanda: You should show Prabhupāda, bring him those plaques.

Jagannātha-suta: Yes, we have those plaques hanging up in the Press building now.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bring it, I shall see.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Is the only way to know Kṛṣṇa through the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. If you want to know me, then you must know about me from me. You can not speculate about me. If you speculate that "Swamiji is so rich," or "Swami might have so much bank balance also," or.... This is all speculation. But when I say that my bank balance is such and such, that is right knowledge.

Reporter: I didn't understand you.

Prabhupāda: That suppose if you are speculating what may be the Swamiji's strength of bank balance. So how you can know it by speculation? But if I say that my bank balance is such and such, than you can understand what is bank balance. So by speculative knowledge you can not understand God. When God says what He is, then you can understand.

Reporter: Do you feel also that if someone read the Bhagava...? I can't pronounce it...

Rāmeśvara: Bhagavad-gītā.

Reporter: ...Bhagavad-gītā and other books, that a person merely by reading these could attain knowledge of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Reporter: Would that person have to have contact with you and learn from you also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is explained, there is no difficulty. But if there is difficulty to understand, then we have to approach a person who has understood Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise the language is very plain, there is no difficulty. Unfortunately they bring their own interpretation and spoil the whole thing.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Do you feel are you in good health now? You look it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After all, of course I am some eighty, eighty years old. And I complete eighty years next September. So the age is there, although I am feeling not aged by..., the effect of age must be there.

Reporter: I didn't understand that.

Rāmeśvara: He says although.... Prabhupāda says although he's not feeling aged, the effect of age is there.

Reporter: When I interviewed you perhaps five or six years ago, it was before there were reports of the astronauts landing on the moon, and I asked you at that time if you thought, what you thought about it, and you said that, as I recall, that they would not be able to land or explore, because spirits or creatures that lived on the moon would not allow it. The reports of course said that indeed people did land and explore and return safely. I understand you have further thoughts about that (laughter) and you've even written a lot about it. I wonder if you could tell me, not at great length perhaps, but what your belief about those events is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They don't accept that the moon is further away.

Prabhupāda: They don't accept, that is another thing, but we have got this information. How we can accept it?

Reporter: I didn't understand that last.

Rāmeśvara: I said to Prabhupāda that the modern man believes that the moon is closer, but Prabhupāda said, "But our ancient literatures teach that the moon is further away." So since we have that information, how can we accept the version of the modern scientists?

Reporter: Hm hm.

Rāmeśvara: We've got...

Prabhupāda: Not only that. Why this arrangement that Monday and, Sunday first, Monday second?

Reporter: Well, that doesn't necessarily speak of distance.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Reporter: It doesn't necessarily speak of distance.

Prabhupāda: That.... Distance may not be, but you have to accept the sun planet first, moon planet next.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why this arrangement: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday? There is some system. The system is, just like first, second, third, fourth. So it is naturally concluded the moon planet is next to the sun planet.

Reporter: Do you feel—maybe you answered this, but I didn't understand the answer—do you feel that astronauts did land somewhere, but it was some other planet?

Prabhupāda: That may be. Or it may not be also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about that sometimes people ask us what about the pictures of man on the moon?

Rāmeśvara: They show man in a spacesuit walking on some other planet.

Prabhupāda: That is also, what is called, argumentative. Somebody says it is arbitrary arrangement.

Reporter: Hm. Laboratory.

Prabhupāda: Of course, we do not go into the details of this. My question is that why Sunday first and Monday second? Nobody can apli..., replies.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I'm going to arrange to have it transcribed.

Reporter: Because there are a lot of things that I couldn't catch, just because I'm not atuned to hearing you, so a lot of words I did not understand. But...

Rāmeśvara: I'll arrange for that.

Reporter: OK.

Rāmeśvara: You'll get it tomorrow.

Reporter: Oh, I enjoyed it very much. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (break)

Rāmeśvara: Just like there is this one point that the scientists say something which everyone in the world believes, but you are saying something different. So he was very interested...

Prabhupāda: No. Ahh.... I...

Reporter: Well the Vedic scriptures say that.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, the Vedic scriptures...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.

Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"

Rāmeśvara: If I have a bigger brain than someone else, and if I give my...

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.

Hari-śauri: "My idea may not be perfect, but it's better than yours," that's their idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is not your secure position. One child is older than the, another child. That does not mean he is a grown-up.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Modern education, they cannot understand that this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease is a botheration. They do not understand that. Why they accept it? Accept it, they think there is no other way. But if there is a way to stop this, why do they not take it? Hm? What is the value of this education? They cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Nobody likes death, but death is there. Nobody likes to become old, but the old age is there. Why they set aside these big problems and he's proud of scientific advancement of knowledge? What kind of education this is? If they cannot distinguish between right and wrong, then what is the result of this education? Education means one must be able to distinguish between the right and wrong. But they cannot, or even they do know that death is not good, but why they are not trying how to stop death? Where is the advancement? They are very much proud of advancement of science. Where is the advancement? You cannot stop death. You cannot stop old age. You can manufacture advanced medicine, but why don't you stop disease? Take this pill, there will be no more disease. Where is that science? Hm?

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: We have given him many books to read and magazines, so he's already preparing the article from that material we have given him.

Prabhupāda: For a common man it is little difficult, but it is very easy. We are talking of the spiritual platform, but common man does not understand what is spiritual, although it is very easy. My body, your body, is moving on account of spiritual spark. That's a fact; everyone can see. As soon as the spiritual spark, soul, is off, the body, it is simply lump of matter. That is a fact; everyone can see. But still they are not serious to understand what is that spiritual spark. There is no education. Mostly they are thinking there is no spiritual spark, the body is moving.... How it is moving? What is their explanation?

Rāmeśvara: Chemical combination and reaction.

Prabhupāda: But that, they cannot do it. They cannot make any dull matter moving by chemical combination. Although they cannot do it, still they talk of it. That is another foolishness. We say that you.... Egg, everyone can see some white matter, some yellow matter, and some covering, plasticlike. So a chemical, mostly chemicals are white. So combine the chemicals and make white and cover it with plastic and give it to the incubator. Why the chicken is not coming? Hm? And why they talk nonsense that it is a chemical combination? They cannot experiment it, neither they can do it, and still they'll talk nonsense. What do you think?

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are two things. One is your body and the other, the living force which is moving your body. There is no question of decision; it is already decided. There are two things. But our point is that two things are there, the material body and the moving force. So what we are speaking, we are speaking of the living force, moving force, and people in general, they're interested with this body. Therefore our subject matter is little difficult for such common man. We are speaking simply on the subject matter of that living force, what is that living force. Our beginning is from that point, that body is different from the living force. And general people, they do not understand. Although they feel that there is living force something, they say it is chemical combination and so on, so on. But that is not the fact. It is a different commodity, material, or it is not material, spiritual identity which is different from this combination of matter, this body. So it requires little training to understand. Although it is very simple fact, but their brain is very dull, material. They see daily, but still, they propose so many things which is impractical. Just like you said that it is chemical composition and they're trying to do it in future.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Very good. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and be one of our members. Your son is also very good. Mother good, son good. According to our Indian estimate, son acquires the quality of mother and the daughter acquires the quality of the father.

Mother: I didn't understand.

Pradyumna: You didn't understand? The son acquires the quality of the mother and the daughter acquires the quality of the father. So like mother, like son.

Mother: When Frank(?) was living in the temple, I didn't tell Kim this, but he looked ten years younger than he does right now.

Mādhavānanda: When he was living in the temple he looked ten years younger. I was thinking he should live in the temple again.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. One clergyman, he asked me, "Swamiji, why your disciples look so bright?" And that's a fact.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Go. Take prasādam.

Guest: I don't understand you, but accept my humble obeisances please, anyway.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Thank you.

Mother: Thank you Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Both of them are good, mother and son. What happened to that machine? (break) ...say there is no father, there is no God. A man who is speaking nonsense like this, he is born by a father. And where he gets the idea that without father the child is born?

Hari-śauri: Doctor Frog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. He's born by a father. So where he gets the idea a child is there without father? There was chemical, there was this, there was.... Chemical is there in the semina. It is a chemical combination. But that chemical combination is not living entity. Body is chemical composition, but why don't you manufacture a living being with these chemicals?

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Go on reading.

Jayādvaita.: "Material perplexities are like a forest fire that somehow blazes without being set by anyone. Similarly, the world situation is such that perplexities of life automatically appear, without our wanting such confusion. No one wants fire, and yet it takes place and we become perplexed. The Vedic wisdom therefore advises that in order to solve the perplexities of life and to understand the science of the solution, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master who is in the disciplic succession. A person with a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything. One should not therefore remain in material perplexities but should approach a spiritual master. This is the purport of this verse. Who is the man in material perplexities? It is he who does not understand the problems of life. In the Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad the perplexed man is described as follows: yo vā etad akṣaraṁ gārgy aviditvāsmāl lokāt praiti sa kṛpaṇaḥ."

Prabhupāda: Yad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇa, etad avidyāt yaḥ prayāti sa eva kṛpaṇaḥ. Read.

Jayādvaita: " 'He is a miserly man who does not solve the problems of life as a human and who thus quits this world like the cats and dogs, without understanding the science of self-realization.' This human form of life is a most valuable asset for the living entity, who can utilize it for solving the problems of life; therefore, one who does not utilize this opportunity properly is a miser. On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa..."

Prabhupāda: They do not know even what are the problems of life. People are so uneducated, they do not know even what are the problems of life. They do not know. What generally people think the problems of life?

Hari-śauri: How to get more money, how to get more sense gratification. That's the main problem.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Your America has got so much money. Has it solved all the problems? Our Ambarīṣa Mahārāja will answer.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: "On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa, or he who is intelligent enough to utilize this body to solve all the problems of life. The kṛpaṇas, or miserly persons, waste their time..."

Prabhupāda: The real problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. They do not understand this. They are so.... Just like animals. Animal does not understand what is birth, death, old age and disease. Real problem is there, but they are so dull-headed that their attention is diverted from the real problem. Temporary problems, they are busy. Just like, one major disease, one is suffering from a major disease. On account of that, he has sometimes headache, sometimes pain here, sometimes so many, minor. So, because we are subjected to meet death, so these minor conditions are there. The real problem is after suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, when the body is no more able to bear suffering, it dies. Just like one man commits suicide. When he cannot control himself from the suffering, he voluntarily commits suicide. So death is the ultimate suffering. But we do not want suffering. Therefore problem is death. But who is anxious to solve this problem? They are not intelligent even. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They do not know even what are the problems.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra.... Dhīras tatra, dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?

Hari-śauri: Sober.

Satsvarūpa: Learned.

Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.

George Gullen: My father used to speak of the Oversoul that I think had some similarity to these words that we just read, that the soul that is...

Prabhupāda: We call Supersoul, that is God. The idea is in Christianity also, "Holy Ghost" like that. Supersoul and the ordinary soul. We living entities, we are ordinary souls, and God in His all-pervading feature, He is Supersoul. Find out this verse: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Material. When you were on the lap of your mother the body was so small. Now you are a young girl and you are.... So where is that small body? That means you have changed bodies. But your mother knows that you are the same, "My child." Because you have grown up or you have changed your body, your mother will not cry "Where is my child?" She knows that "My child is there, but she has changed body." Why these people do not understand this plain truth? Suppose you have come in this dress; next moment you come in another dress. But if I know you I'll not mistake because you have changed your dress. Similarly, we are changing our dress from baby to child, child to boy, boy to young man, young man to middle-aged man, constantly changing, every moment. Medical science also says. The blood corpuscles are changed every moment. So we are changing our body every moment. But still we cannot understand that on account of change of body, the living force within the body does not change. Is there any difficulty to understand?

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Otherwise, if they just come and...

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to understand that our movement is spiritual movement, and they do not understand what is spiritual, the whole world. That is the defect. But still we are going on. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise, nobody understands what is the aim or what is the platform. (Some kids yell "Hare Kṛṣṇa" in disrespectful tones outside the room. Prabhupāda and devotees laugh)

Hari-śauri: It's amazing when you think how we're expanding all the time. It's really amazing.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Therefore they take us as one of these Guruji and Babaji, like this, like that. But when they read our books, higher class, they understand the seriousness of it. They admit that this is India's original, traditional knowledge. Higher, higher circle, they don't want any imitation.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The beginning is to understand this transmigration. But actually people do not understand. Cycle of birth and death, if one does not understand what is birth and death, what he'll understand of cycle of birth and death? Mostly because they do not understand what is birth and what is death, they are mostly going on on the bodily concept of life. That is animal life. Ask anybody. Bodily concept. And everything is going on. We pass through Canada to USA. Why Canada? Why USA? This bodily concept. It is meant for the Canadians, it is meant for USA, Americans. Immigration, customs, the same mentality as a dog coming from other neighborhood. The other dogs, they all come together, "Yow, yow, why you have come, why you have come?" In civilized dress only. This is the position. What is the difference between the dog's mentality... When another dog comes to another neighborhood, these neighborhood dogs, you know that? All animals: "Yow, why you have come?" So this department, "Why you have come here?" dogs barking, and this immigration, what is the difference? Is there any difference? This is our policy. Very difficult. (break) ...they will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their mentality is not better than the animals.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Mistri or anyone, to develop this Kṛṣṇa culture, so the Society will give guarantee. Why not take permission? And they may not come back. They may reside.

Kīrtanānanda: I don't understand. That seems to be the government's, the Indian government's objection was that they wouldn't come back.

Prabhupāda: So they are disturbed with overpopulation.

Kīrtanānanda: It doesn't make any sense. But their objection was that they might not come back.

Prabhupāda: But that is good for you, because you are harassed by overpopulation. You cannot feed them even. Why you object? Let them go and live somewhere else peacefully. Just like the Europeans came here. Originally, in America, Europeans came. Because it was overcongested and they got..., Columbus found this land, enough, and they migrated. So still there is so much land. The Indians are hard workers, they will develop very nicely. Just like this quarter; if Indians would be allowed, they'll come and make it very nice. In South America, they have done. Many Indian cultivators, they have come in remote villages. This cooperation should be. Everything belongs to God. Why a class or community should be congested? Just like China, Japan, India, so much congested. What is this nonsense United Nations doing? What they have done for the last thirty years? No liberal-minded.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): In the Seventh Canto, second volume, the first chapter in that volume, Prahlāda Mahārāja is talking how the studying of the three Vedas is external and it includes knowledge though, of education and self-realization, but he considers it material because it is external study of the Vedas. I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: Anything external is material.

Devotee (1): Self-realization is included in that list of education and self-realization and other items.

Prabhupāda: Yes, self-realization, simply understanding "I am not this matter," is also external because there is chance of falldown. But when you are actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is positive platform of self-realization.

Devotee (2): Just like the brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahmeti.

Prabhupāda: Different stages of self-realization. (pause) Today there is no wind at all.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we explain that our activities are spiritual, what we are doing is spiritual.... Just like we say the quality of the tape recorder becomes spiritualized when it's used in Kṛṣṇa's service. So the materialists, they don't understand. They say "Well, the tape recorder will also break, the tapes will also be burned up sometimes."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It will go to Kṛṣṇa. Breaking, where it will go? Hmm?

Kulādri: They say the chemicals again become...

Prabhupāda: That chemical, where it will go? Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante yasmin saṁviśanti. Everything is created from Kṛṣṇa, again it returns to Kṛṣṇa.

Kulādri: Then they say then we needn't play Kṛṣṇa conscious music. We might as well play rock and roll if it is going back to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is māyā. This is meant for Kṛṣṇa's service. As soon as you do anything else, then it is māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's. But under māyā we suffer; under Kṛṣṇa we enjoy.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that story, the cobbler actually was more advanced than the brāhmaṇa, and yet in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains that "Anyone can approach Me, even the strī śūdra dvija bandhu," they can all approach the supreme destination. Then in the next verse he says "How much greater, then, are the brāhmaṇas, the righteous, the devotees, the saintly kings." I was wondering how are they greater?

Prabhupāda: You do not understand it?

Devotee (1): I do not understand how they are greater than the lower person who surrenders.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your spiritual master and you, if somebody says that you can come into the..., any one of you can come in this car. So spiritual master goes, you also go. Does it mean that spiritual master is not greater than you? Do you think like that?

Devotee (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is the same thing. Suppose Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has brought this car, so he says, "All of you can come." So I go, you go, does it mean that you and your spiritual master is equal? Do you think like that? It is same thing. Everyone can go to Godhead, there is no doubt, but still there is difference between brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, śūdras. So far going into the car, the equal right is there, but it does not mean that your spiritual master or the next group, they are not greater than you. Don't think like that. The same car, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is driving, I am also there, you are also there. Does it mean that we are all equal? There must be gradation.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: So we should simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Try to understand everything, but understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not understand Brahman, you do not understand Paramātmā. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then it is automatically understood. We have not understood Brahman, Paramātmā, because we have not understood Kṛṣṇa properly. Kṛṣṇa says, aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "I am the source of everything." So Brahman is also from Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā is also from Kṛṣṇa. And so other Bhagavāns—there are so many Bhagavāns also—they are from Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa you can understand everything. And as soon as you say that you have not understood it, therefore you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand, just like Māyāvādīs, they do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore they do not understand Brahman also. And therefore they fall down, because they have not understood either Brahman or Kṛṣṇa. Patanty adhaḥ. This is stated in the śāstra. Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have not understood Kṛṣṇa, even they have gone up to the Brahman, they cannot stand there; they fall down. Again they come to the material world. The Māyāvādīs, they say, brahma satyma jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth, and this material world is false." They take sannyāsa, but after some time they fall down, again take to other businesses than Brahman in the material world. Just like our Vivekananda. He came to the Western countries to preach Vedānta, and he has advertised that "Whole America has become Vedantist." The proof of Vedānta is when he returned to India he became very enthusiastic to open hospitals like the Christian missionaries. So if the material world is false, so why he's trying to open hospitals? Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagat is mithyā. So why in the mithyā platform he's taking credit by opening hospitals?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are, will be declining. These are the, I mean to say, human assets which makes a human being distinct from the animals. But these things will decline. There will be no mercifulness, there will be no truthfulness, the memory will be shortened, duration life shortened. Similarly religion will vanish. So that means gradually they will come to the platform of animals. And especially when there is no religion, it is simply animals. That any common man can distinguish, that... a dog does not understand what is religion. He's also a living being. He's not interested what is going on here about Bhagavad-Gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is not interested. That is the distinction between dog and man. The animal is not interested. So if the human being becoming disinterested in religious things, then they are animals. And how there can be happiness, peace, in the animal society? They want to keep people as animal, and they are making United Nations. How it is possible? "United Animals?" Is it possible? "Society for United Animals." (laughter) So these things are going on. So they have detected it is declining, that is good. Declining means they are going to be animals. In the logic it is said, "Man is rational animal." So rationality minus..., animal. Where is human being? (aside:) you stand be... No. there is no place. That's all right.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, it is clear or now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So long it is not clear, you can go on asking. One question after one question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The point was made by you that they don't understand what actual progress is.

Prabhupāda: Actually, destiny cannot be checked. That I have already given. Even Mahatma Gandhi could not. The destiny you cannot check.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But then the question may be raised if destiny cannot be checked, then why not, when a child is born, simply let him like an animal run around and whatever happens to him...

Prabhupāda: No. That is the advantage of... you can train him spiritually. That is possible. Therefore it is said, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). For that purpose you engage your energy. That is open. Ahaituky apratihatā. The devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, apratihatā, it cannot be checked. Material destiny can be checked, or it cannot be checked. Similarly, your advancement in spiritual life cannot be checked if you endeavor for it. But your advancement of so-called material happiness, that is already destined. You cannot check it. Try to understand this.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge. But if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then where is your knowledge? Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion. Then śrama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and church and everything is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: That's due to too much sinful activity? Too much sinful activity that they can't think that there's some divine influence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence. Your existence is not purified. You are put in a position. If you like, that's all right, but because you are not in a purified position, you'll be kicked out at any moment. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. You are very proud to have your position, but nature will kick you out at any moment, but you cannot do anything. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He's foolish. He's thinking "I have everything. I can remain in this presidential position as I like." That is not the position. That is foolishness, that is childish. He does not know what is his position. But he wants position. That means there is a good position for him, but not here. That he does not know. Everyone is hankering after good position, but where is that good position, that he does not know. Everyone is hankering after water, but he is going after water in the desert. That is animalism. The animal runs after the water in the desert, and a human being, he knows, "No, this is not water, this is reflection." The water is there, that's a fact, but not here. That is human... It is reflection of water. Reflection water means the water is there, but it is not here. Similarly, good position is there, but not here. Here it is simply a reflection of that position. That he does not understand. Where is the actual water, wherefrom the reflection comes, that he does not know. Falsely thinking that "Here is everything." Very big, big scientists, they are thinking only on this planet there is life, and all planets are vacant.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this connection, this variegatedness in connection with life, can you take it as some sort of complex structures?

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Evolution means material evolution, from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not evolution. The species are already there, 8,400,000. Now the living entity is changing the position. The status is already there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: They don't understand. That is their foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's why we want to bring up this point that...

Prabhupāda: You can bring up. This is the position. Just like there are apartments are already there. Sometimes I am coming here, sometimes going there, but this is the position. I'm not fixed up. Similarly, living entity, as soon as he changes his mind, the apartment is ready. Here is your position. Again he changes, "Here, here is your position." They are already there. Not that for him especially being created. The species are already there. As soon as he fixes himself up particular species, he's transferred, daiva-netreṇa karmaṇā. He gets a similar body, "Come on, here, take this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). These are explained. So he's transmigrating, he's not fixed up. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). He gets, by his desire, he gets a particular body. Then after some time he changes to another body.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Coleman, yes. Last time in India, he gave me twenty-five thousand rupees. (laughs)

Rūpānuga: He did?! Wow, twenty-five thousand! He still has the original tape of this record.

Prabhupāda: Let him now do. He wanted to pay me something, but he never paid.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I sent Kṛṣṇa-kānti, he made a, recorded this in South Africa and printed it. It's not actually legal, but we did it because we didn't think it would... This is the most wonderful record for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness because you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So pure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Originally.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People can more appreciate Hare Kṛṣṇa than these bhajanas, because they do not understand.

Prabhupāda: Bhajana, they do... (break) ...Brahmānanda, you...

Rūpānuga: Brahmānanda, yes, he's singing. Satsvarūpa. Hayagrīva was there also, and Jadurāṇī was there. We were playing all kinds of instruments, all kinds of things. We were playing bells and sticks.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda was playing sitar.

Rūpānuga: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And I was playing a broken mṛdaṅga.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: When you say that they're born from perspiration like cockroaches, does that mean that the eggs are laid by the female and then the atmosphere of perspiration enables the eggs to be hatched? Like that?

Prabhupāda: No, from the perspiration automatically it comes.

Sadāpūta: Prabhupāda, we say that everything is situated on desire, and as a person surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11), He rewards accordingly. But people don't understand. Just like if there's a mother and father, and the child is not doing well, they try to mold that child's desire properly, the way that they see as proper.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He's coming, Kṛṣṇa, personally, "Rascal, give up all these ideas. Surrender to Me." But who is accepting it? He's coming for this purpose; He's leaving His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā; He's sending His devotee; but who is caring to accept that? He's very much anxious to do good to you. If you don't accept, what can be done?

Vipina: In the case of a devotee...

Prabhupāda: Devotees, they accept. Therefore they are happy. And they'll be happy. They'll go back to home happy. One who accepts, he becomes happy.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Loomis(?): Could I ask a question? I look at this room and my senses are gratified by this room, by that painting, by beautiful flowers, by the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is pleasing to my ear, and I have to feel that my senses are able to help my spirit, or else there will not be this beauty in this room. But I don't understand very well when sense gratification is helpful and when it is not.

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification is never helpful. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Sense gratification is required as far as..., as little as possible. Otherwise, not for sense gratification. Just like sleeping. Sleeping is required because this material body requires some rest. But not that we shall sleep twenty-four hours or twenty hours and enjoy, as in this country sometimes they enjoy sleeping. But sleeping is wasting time. So long we shall sleep we cannot do anything good work. Therefore it should be minimized. You cannot avoid sleeping altogether. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is called tapasya, or advancement of spiritual life. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. They're required. So long we have got this body, we require to eat something, we require to sleep sometimes, we require a little sense gratification, and we require defense. But it should be minimized, not increased.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: So you think they might be misused.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being misused. They take Kṛṣṇa as debauch. They do not understand. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs, they are described in the Tenth Canto. That is also middle of Tenth Canto, and nine cantos required to understand Kṛṣṇa, beginning with janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So that is the Absolute Truth. These things should be discussed in the beginning. Then when one is fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with this material world, as Śaṅkarācārya said, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt, avyaktāt anna sambhava. This material world is a production... (break) It has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When it is nirmalam, then it is first-class. The first process is nirmalam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). This process is first-class. Not all of a sudden jump over. This literature, that is (indistinct), that should be kept in reserve for persons who are already liberated. Otherwise it will be misunderstood.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: I try to resolve these two views. I believe that materialism has a divine purpose.

Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. But if you do not understand the divine purpose, then you remain animal.

Bill Sauer: Yes, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. This human form of life is given to us by laws of nature to understand what is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, what is this material world, why you have come here, these things we have to know in this human form of life, and, if we like, we can know also. But instead of knowing these different phases of life, if we simply take care of this body like the animals, then we miss the opportunity. The animal is concerned to take the care of the body, that's all. If we simply remain taking care of this body, then we are animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Woman guest (2): That's because it came from scriptures instead of from men's minds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is authorized. When you take anything from the statute, book, that is law. And if you manufacture something, that is not law. Just like, I'll give you one very good example. Just like in your front of your house there is U.S. letterbox. So another man, he sees that the box is in front of his house, "Why shall I go so far? Let me manufacture a box here." So he's posting. After six months, he'll see all these letters are lying there. (laughter) And one who is posting that authorized box, his letter is going to thousands and thousands of miles away. So you cannot imitate. If you imitate U.S. letterbox in front of your house and post your letters, it will never go, it will remain there.

Guest (4): Your Grace? I don't understand how it can be all right for a person to lie, even if he is a shopkeeper or a diplomat.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot do business without speaking lies; you have to do it. What can be done?

Guest (4): You can do business without speaking lies—you just don't make so much money.

Prabhupāda: That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that? Sa-doṣam api na tyajet (BG 18.48). Even your profession is infected with so many faults, you don't agree, don't give it up. He's giving the example: the fire is so nice, purify, still there is smoke. So in the material world, whatever you do, there will be some fault. If you want faultless action, that is not possible. Therefore we cannot give up your occupational duty even there are some faults. Sa-doṣam api na tyajet.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall keep it dusty. If our heart is full of dust, cleanse it. That is intelligence. What is this, "My heart is dirty, let it be kept as dirty"? No, if it is dirty, cleanse it. It is the duty of every Indian to understand Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to others. That is real Indian business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every one of you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. That is the injunction; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Practice this. Your mind, when he says something hodgepodge, just beat him with shoes. Just to bring him in order. Here is the real understanding, that

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whether you are prepared to act according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Otherwise you are in darkness. So as Arjuna, he was in the darkness... He's kṣatriya. The fight was arranged between the two sections of the family, Pāṇḍavas and Kurus, and when he was to fight actually with his family members, he became bewildered, that "Kṛṣṇa, what is this? I'll have to kill my family members." So then he became His disciple, that "I am kṣatriya, it is my duty to fight. Now I am hesitating." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ (BG 2.7). "I'm just deviating from my duty, so Kṛṣṇa, I accept You as my guru-kindly give me instruction." So that Bhagavad-gītā was given instruction... (break) He agreed, "Yes, now my illusion is over, I shall fight." This is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you follow Arjuna as he understood, then your understanding of Bhagavad-gītā is perfect. If you do not understand, then you have not understood what is Kṛṣṇa's speaking and what is Bhagavad-gītā. Yes?

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: But there are some very intelligent men who are not spiritually enlightened, perhaps even men who understand that they are not, or the body is not all, the body is dead and there is something else. Why aren't these men spiritually aware?

Prabhupāda: If one does not understand this simple thing, that he is not body, then he is no better than animal. That is the first understanding of spiritual platform. If he thinks that he is body, then he is in the same category as the animals.

Rāmeśvara: Her question is... Suppose someone has some faith in life after death, and he also may be an intelligent man by material standards. Why isn't he automatically...?

Prabhupāda: No, material standard is no intelligence. Material standard is that "I am this body. I am American. I an Indian. I am fox. I am dog. I am man." This is material understanding. Spiritual understanding is beyond that, that "I am not this body." And when he tries to understand that spiritual identification, then he is intelligent. Otherwise he is not intelligent.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Foolish policy. Just like the deaf man, he thinks everyone is deaf. You know that? This is psychology. Deaf man will think that everyone is deaf. Broadcast radio message in the Pacific Ocean, the aquatics they do not reply, that means there is no life? Rascal theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, maybe they speak a different language.

Devotee: They don't understand that there may be different mediums of communication.

Rāmeśvara: The government announces to the public that so much money from the taxes has to be spent on this space exploration. But according to the information that you're giving us it is not possible for them to be spending so much money to photograph Phoenix so they must be stealing the money.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?

Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Laboring.

Interviewer: You say not separating but liberating?

Prabhupāda: Not liberating.

Interviewer: I didn't understand your repl...

Hari-śauri: Could you repeat the question again?

Interviewer: Many people say that members of the International Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society are being cut off from work in the world and therefore their contributions to the world are being lost to the world and I wondered how you felt about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they have misunderstood.

Interviewer: That is true?

Prabhupāda: Misunderstood.

Interviewer: Misunderstood.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is they do not understand on which platform we are working.

Interviewer: How would you describe that platform?

Prabhupāda: Just like you or me or anyone, this living condition is one platform and when I or you, we are dead, that is another platform. So generally people are working on the bodily concept of platform.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Well, since this dichotomy appears to be the case, I mean that there is, that the movement is sort of cut off from the world in general, does that not deprive the world of the service, of the usefulness of these people?

Prabhupāda: First of all, if you do not understand what is the movement then how you can give your verdict like that? First of all, try to understand what is this movement.

Interviewer: The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society.

Prabhupāda: Then what is that Kṛṣṇa movement? That Kṛṣṇa movement is, just like to understand the driver.

Bali-mardana: The Kṛṣṇa movement is meant to help people to understand the spiritual knowledge, knowledge of who they actually are. That is what our movement is dedicated to. We are not dedicated for our own...

Interviewer: What is the purpose of the movement, your Grace?

Prabhupāda: Purpose of the movement is to know who is the driver of the car.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Working on the driver of the body. On the spirit, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes, on the spirit soul. And because they do not know what is the difference between the soul and the body, they cannot understand what is our contribution.

Interviewer: Because they do not understand the difference between the soul and the body, that's why they don't understand what you are contributing.

Prabhupāda: Contribution.

Bali-mardana: We're going to give you a transcript.

Interviewer: Do you think that...?

Prabhupāda: Now, just you try. We are trying to give enlightenment about the driver of the car. Because the driver of the car is always important, either on the car or without the car. And people in general they are giving importance to the car only. They have no knowledge of the driver. The car requires petrol and the driver requires nice food. So people in general, when they see that we are not giving petrol to the driver, they are surprised.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Well you know, Your Grace, the spiritual quality is an important part of life of course...

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise the animal. If the man does not understand the value of his spiritual quality then he's no better than the dog. The dog does not know.

Interviewer: What do you think of Jimmy Carter?

Bali-mardana: Jimmy Carter is the Presidential candidate.

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What is the (indistinct) is I do not know, neither I...

Interviewer: Not aware of that.

Bali-mardana: Doesn't care about politics.

Interviewer: But isn't, that's part of what I'm thinking about, that you and your movement tend to separate people from concern with what's going on in the world, like that's a Presidential election and Jimmy Carter is the democratic candidate. This is a disregard of what's going on in the world. Isn't that an example of it?

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that there were many Presidents before, what is this name of this?

Bali-mardana: Jimmy Carter. He is not President yet.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because they cannot understand that there is life after jail. They are so fool, rascal that they cannot understand that without jail one can live.

Bali-mardana: So what you were saying before, the persons in the jail are thinking "These people are not working for life in the jail," so they don't understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: How's that now?

Prabhupāda: We're not working to keep people in the jail conception of life. So that's why they cannot understand what we are doing.

Interviewer: You mean you're not working for the jail life?

Bali-mardana: To keep people within the conception that life is within the jail.

Prabhupāda: Just like a man has gone to jail, he's giving education to the prisoners, "My dear brother prisoners, this life is not good, you become honest, don't come to the jail." So other prisoners, they are working hard, they are hammering on the bricks, they think that "This man is not hammering on the bricks, he's talking only."

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Well, are your Kṛṣṇa members out of the, out of jail?

Prabhupāda: Just like, some of us are working like the hammerman, breaking bricks with hammer, but that does not mean he does not understand. So long one is in the jail, one is not in freedom, he has to work like that by force. But that is not his proper work. He has got a different work outside the jail or in his freedom life.

Interviewer: Well, what people are saying about the members of the Kṛṣṇa society is that they are not doing the jail work.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The prisoner who is hammering the bricks, he's thinking that this man is simply instructing that you have a different life outside the jail, he's not hammering on the brick. Therefore he is surprised, "How is that he is not hammering like me?"

Interviewer: In other words, he's not participating in jail life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: You've, I'm sure you've heard or read about these claims by these parent groups that claim that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement members are, ah, sort of controlled by intensive indoctrination? Brain-washed they call it, you know, by getting up and having the two hours or three of chanting in the morning and prayer beads constantly and the group life, that they're sort of controlled, and denied their freedom. What do you say about that?

Prabhupāda: It is due to misunderstanding. They do not understand what kind of preaching, what kind of education we are giving. We are giving education how to become free from the hammering business in the jail. They think hammering business and keep oneself within the jail is the real life because they have been accustomed to that. And when we speak that "Hammering or to keep within the jail is not your real business: your real business is freedom," naturally they find contradiction, and they think that we are doing something against their business. That is the difficulty.

Interviewer: Like doing something against their what?

Bali-mardana: Against their business.

Interviewer: But in other words you think that there, is there not something to this idea of brain, of being spiritually controlled or spiritually directed?

Prabhupāda: It is not controlled, it is not controlled.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Eastern, Western, that is also bodily conception. Why they are thinking Eastern, Western? Everyone is human being.

Interviewer: Well, what is it that they particularly understand, misunderstand about the movement?

Prabhupāda: They do not understand that we are talking on the spiritual platform and they are on the material bodily platform. Therefore they find contradiction. One has to be little sober to understand this movement and what platform we are speaking. They are accustomed, on the same example, hammering the bricks. And when they see others, they are not hammering the bricks, they think they are different. They cannot understand that life can be without hammering the bricks. Karmīs. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the word mūḍha, that has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī, karmīs, these mūḍhas. They cannot understand.

Interviewer: I'm going to have to go back and hammer a few bricks. (laughter) It's been a pleasure, thank you very much, for your time.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Give him prasāda. Thank you very much.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material condition life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like their so-called scientific way. They are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot because they are being controlled. So we should come to our senses that we cannot bring the laws of material nature under our control. We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be achieved when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

George Harrison: I don't know if they'd like it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

George Harrison: They don't understand. Already they don't understand such a lot. Even if you say it in English. Even when you say things to them in English, they don't understand.

Prabhupāda: That word Kṛṣṇa, if they hear, that will be sufficient.

George Harrison: We were in Vṛndāvana, somebody, we were singing, singing in the morning, singing this "Jaya Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.

George Harrison: And he asked, this person said to me, "You should make it into a song in English." So I wrote English verses, and in each chorus it as "jaya kṛṣṇa, jaya kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa, jaya kṛṣṇa, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa; jaya rādhe, jaya rādhe, rādhe, jaya rādhe, jaya śrī rādhe." I don't know, did you..., if you heard that song. It was on that "Extra Texture"—you know that one? "He who..." I wrote the English words. "He whose eyes have seen what our lives have been, and who we really are—it is He, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa." And then it has a chorus. "He whose sweetness flows to any one of those that cares to look His way, see His smile, jaya śrī rādhe," then the chorus again.

Mukunda: This is on George's new record.

George Harrison: No, it was last year. And "He who is complete, three worlds at His feet, cause of every star, it is He, jaya śrī kṛṣṇa." It's a nice song. But I took the old, the tune that we sang in Vṛndāvana, and just make slightly different, you know, with chords, chord patterns.

Prabhupāda: So in your next record, you can give this. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He's asking that since he first read the Gītā when he was very young, since that time he's been trying to compact paths of jñāna and bhakti and follow the teachings of all the great religions. And he's wondering if he should continue on that same path.

Prabhupāda: No, jñāna means that to understand the Absolute Truth. If you do not understand the Absolute Truth, what is the meaning of this jñāna? That means knowledge is imperfect. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, ultimately, then bhakti is required. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to know the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Being, then you have to go through bhakti. Jñāna, so-called jñāna, bhakti includes. Just like bhakti includes everything, but jñāna does not include bhakti. It is imperfect. In jñāna there is little touch of bhakti, but in bhakti there is full jñāna. Because unless you... Absolute Truth is realized in three stages, brahmeti, paramātmeti, bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So those who are on the stage of Brahman and Paramātmā, they're not in the Absolute Truth. Part of it. But when one understands Bhagavān, then he understands Paramātmā and Brahman. That is full knowledge. There are three things—sat, cit, ānanda. So Brahman realization is sat. Paramātmā realization is cit. But ānanda is not there. But if he does not get ānanda, then falls down.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhūgarbha: He says just like Vaiṣṇavism is also coherent, but one has to study very deeply. Otherwise, one cannot see it. He said if we examine all the religions and find out the axiomatic truths of every religion, we'll see how they are all coherent.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is that religion means to understand God. If one does not understand God, then his religion is still defective. Religion means to understand God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). When you understand God and your relationship with God, then it is perfection of religion.

Bhūgarbha: He said that he feels very thankful that you've given him such a long darśana. He's very happy that you've given so much enlightenment in many subjects. He's just passing through with his daughter. He'd like to stay tomorrow to see the installation of the Deities, but he has to go to a Tibetan temple in the south of France. On Saturday he has to be there, so he has to drive, and he said that he's found the Tibetans are also very good devotees.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You must inquire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, very good. Then is bigger than you. Very good. There is a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa ihā ha-ite kṛṣṇe (CC Adi 2.117). To know, we have got limited knowledge, we cannot understand full what is God, but still we must try to understand what is God. This is the general definition of God. Suppose you take one item, God is rich, richest. Try to understand how He is richest, what is the topmost idea of all richness. Whether God possesses that richness. He possesses, but we do not understand. In this way we have to study, and all the saintly person have studied Kṛṣṇa, about these six things. They have analyzed the characters and symptoms and they have found īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Not blindly, but studying thoroughly about these qualities of God, they have decided īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So you have to study God. Not that we accept God anybody and anything, no. Siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa. Don't be lazy to understand God. The more you understand, the more you become a devotee.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is more or less. Sometimes you have got 110 degree temperature and sometimes you have got seventy degree temperature. But the disturbance is there. Either 110 degree or seventy degree or thirty degree, you'll have to feel the disturbance. You cannot stop it. So either you take the cause this age, or this country, or this atmosphere, we can say so, but it will continue. That is the nature of the material world. If you think that 110 degree is too much, let it be one hundred degree... That you concoct like that. In fact any such temperature will disturb you. That's a fact. You can think that if it would have been 100 degree, it would have been very nice, but that's not the fact. Either 110 degree or 100 degree, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he's intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). One has to understand this fundamentally, that so long I'll get this material body, I'll have to suffer. Maybe differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Not to make a distinction of different degrees. Different degrees—one position, one man's food, another man's poison. The same degree. If you think that it is nice, another man will suffer. So suffering will continue. That is not possible (indistinct). It is the nature of material world, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This material world is full of miseries. That they do not understand. Miserable condition they are accepting as pleasing. That is called ignorant.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed. He said kalau nāsty eva: the Kali-yuga you cannot do anything more. You do simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? A boy can chant. It is simply practice, association. Your son, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So these chances should be given to everyone, then everything will be all right. Let him be practiced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then everything will go on. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Where is the difficulty? Unless we make it difficult. Otherwise there is no difficulty. Otherwise suffering. Just like this lamb. It has got the Iranian body, but he's kept there for being killed. So what is the benefit of this Iranian body? But people are very much enthusiastic to remain nationalists, "I am Iranian, I am American, I am this, I am that." So, but he has worked in a different way, so he has got attachment for becoming American and Iranian, "All right you become." And according to work you have to become a lamb. And other Iranians eat you. That's all. This is designation. They do not understand, or they are not educated that what he will get by these designations.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?

Nandarāṇī: But their faith is there.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhakta. Our formula is harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not devotee, he has no good qualities.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, and he suffered all his life. He wanted good qualification, but he was concocting. He was taking some from śāstra and he was concocting some. Because he did not understand the śāstra properly, he rejected some of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Because he did not have the blessing of Lord Caitanya, he did not understand it, so he rejected some of it, and as a result he was concocting. When he went to Africa, to South Africa, he started the movement there, this nonviolence...

Prabhupāda: There it was failure.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It was a failure.

Prabhupāda: Twenty years he tried, it was failure.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Mr. Sharma is a devotee. He's a wonderful person. He's taken to spiritual life and is very serious about it. Mr. Sahani is also very serious, he's...

Prabhupāda: No, every Indian is a devotee. This is the privilege of taking birth in India. There is... Naturally he's devotee, and if he takes little education, take advantage of the Vedic instructions, then his life is successful. In the śāstra it is said even the demigods, they desire to take birth in India because this facility is there in India. This facility, the land is so sanctified that anyone who takes the body from this land, he's born sanctified. Now, if he further takes advantage of the Vedic knowledge, then his life becomes successful. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that anyone who has taken birth in India, make his life successful, and then preach this knowledge to the outside world. The exact word,

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari 'kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Outside India they are in darkness. So it is the duty of the Indian to make his life perfect and spread his spiritual knowledge to the outside world. That is real welfare activity in the human society. That we are trying to do. Unfortunately, they have not taken very seriously what glorious activities for India we are doing. They do not understand.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: Those who don't understand Kṛṣṇa, it's difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: How he will understand? He creates difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme authority," and the person who heard from Kṛṣṇa, he says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam (BG 10.12). He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, Arjuna. And why we deviate? The speaker says that He is the supreme authority, and the listener, Arjuna, accepts Him. Now why we interpret? What right you have got interpretation?

Mrs. Sahani: We interpret it according to our own design.

Prabhupāda: Eh? You cannot, if you have own design, don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. You make your own design and preach otherwise. Why you take advantage of the Bhagavad-gītā? This is criminal. If you have got a different philosophy, you preach. Everyone has got the right. But why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? When you take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and you speak nonsense, that is not good. That has murdered the whole thing. And practically we see that. Bhagavad-gītā as it is, you try to understand, you get the benefit and you life is successful. Besides that, interpretation when it is required. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. The law of interpretation is like this: when the things are not distinct, then you can interpret in your own way, I can interpret in my own way, but when the things are distinct, there is no question of interpretation.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: If that's so, then we don't understand because we don't want to understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the folly. You don't want to understand.

Mrs. Sahani: Because we have so many desire, we don't want to surrender.

Prabhupāda: We want to become bigger than Kṛṣṇa, than Arjuna. This is our folly. But the process is, as recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). You have to understand from the higher authorities.

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha mahatā

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

(BG 4.2)

As soon as you give up this line of understanding, then it is lost. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Then you are dealing in not Bhagavad-gītā, something else, something rubbish. Yogo naṣṭaḥ, it is naṣṭaḥ, it is spoiled. As soon as you interpret, it is spoiled. First of all, why you should interpret? If the meaning is clear, there is no chance of interpreting. If the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1) is clear. Why should you interpret? Baliye (Hindi) If dharma-kṣetra kuru-kṣetra is clear, why would you interpret? When things are clear, interpretation means you are playing joke. So our, this movement presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So they are being accepted all over the world, and we are getting good devotees, sincere devotees. All parts of the world.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: But is it possible to understand Kṛṣṇa directly?

Prabhupāda: No. You can if you are intelligent enough. Otherwise, everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He says directly everyone. He's not saying to Arjuna: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Why don't you do it? Because you cannot understand it. If you understood, you have done it immediately. But you do not understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa-tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā upadekṣyanti (BG 4.34)—you have to understand through the person who tatva-darśinaḥ, who has seen Kṛṣṇa. Tattva-darśi, not theoretical. You have to approach such person, then he will show you, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." But if you don't follow the instruction in Bhagavad-gītā directly or indirectly.... Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if you do not do that and because you may not understand Kṛṣṇa.... But Kṛṣṇa also says tad viddhi praṇipātena... You do not go to a seer, then how you'll understand Kṛṣṇa? You do not understand directly or indirectly. Then you are hopeless.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

s. Sahani: If you don't understand Kṛṣṇa directly...

Prabhupāda: Neither indirectly. If you don't understand directly, you should go to a person who understands Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't do either of these things, then how you'll understand Kṛṣṇa?

Mrs. Sahani: But how to, because in India there's so many...

Prabhupāda: Don' talk of India; at any place.

Mrs. Sahani: Any place, yes. But how do we be sure that this person knows Kṛṣṇa?

Atreya Ṛṣi: How can she be sure that the spiritual master is bona fide?

Prabhupāda: If when you see that he does not speak anything except Kṛṣṇa, that is tattva-darśi. If you are expert businessman in certain line, you have no other business than to talk with on that line. Suppose if you are to purchase some gold, then you have to go to the gold market for dealing with gold. Why should we go to the ice market? That is your ignorance. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then you have to know from the persons who are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. They have no other business. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We're writing books, so many books for Kṛṣṇa. We are preaching and going country to country. We simple deal with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the movement is known as "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Somebody suggested "Why don't you write 'God consciousness'?" No, if I say "God consciousness," they'll bring so many gods. It is very simple. If we take it seriously, then benefit is there. But if we hesitate, it is our misfortune.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then how you can say that you can do it as you like? God has given us?

Jñānagamya: They don't understand how God chastises when they misuse. They don't understand karma.

Prabhupāda: That means shameless. They are being chastised at every step, and they don't think it is chastisement. They are shameless fools.

Nava-yauvana: And also they blame God. They say God is unjust. Then they say God is unjust.

Prabhupāda: And when they are chastised, then God is unjust. This is their position. You cannot deny the proprietorship of God. That is not possible. If you misuse it, then you'll be chastised. You'll be chastised. Even in that park, the park is owned by the government. You cannot pluck any flower without the permission. You can use it. You can go there and sit there, enjoy it, but if it is prohibited that nobody can pluck flower, if you do it, then it is criminal. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God, so you can utilize it, God's favor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, according to His instruction. Suppose there are many persons coming in the park. You cannot prohibit anyone to come into the park. As you have entered, "Yes." But you have made laws like that. What is this immigration? Artificial prohibition. Everything is God's property. Anyone can go anywhere. Why you have made this immigration department, "Don't come here"?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is postdated check, that I am explaining. Why don't you understand it?

Jñānagamya: But the religionists, they say "We don't know."

Prabhupāda: No, we do not say about religion. We are talking of science. It will take three millions of years to understand religion for these rascals. They are now animals. Religion is not so easy thing to be understood by the cats and dogs. Religion is meant for the human being. In the human society there is religion, not in the dog society or the cats and dogs. They do not understand religion means they are cats and dogs, they are not human beings. Human being is that: athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the nature of God. That is human being. Otherwise cats and dogs.

Shahrezad: So why we are so involved in the material world that most of the human being don't have...

Prabhupāda: They are being misled by misleaders, that is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Actually, Prabhupāda, that lust is a perverted expression of love. Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love, and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.

Harikeśa: Then you agree with me?

Jñānagamya: Yes, you are right, but you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate. It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is... They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say "Why you are connected with illicit sex?" "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say it is love.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: What is their definition of love?

Prabhupāda: Rascals, they are all... These sahajiyās, you'll find most of them illiterate. Not a single of them is even literate, they are so low class. Most of them they come to Vṛndāvana... Why Vṛndāvana? There are many other places. Their aim is woman and money. Just like these swamis and yogis, they come.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Simply the ultimate goal is women and money. You may become whatever you may become. You become a yogi, you become a bābājī, you become a swami, but the ultimate goal is a woman and money. That's all. I'm feeling nice here. There is open air and grass.

Nava-yauvana: These rascals don't understand that lust also has its laws and they are under these strict laws of lust. They are thinking they are independent.

Prabhupāda: No, lust... Suppose lust is... Then lust between man and woman. Then this lust will cause.

Harikeśa: That's a law in physics also, "opposites attract."

Prabhupāda: Yes, and who made the opposites?

Harikeśa: No, that's just the natural arrangement of things.

Prabhupāda: What is natural?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Who arranged?

Harikeśa: That's the complete. No, you see that's complete. Two opposite things, they're like two halves of a circle.

Prabhupāda: No, why, who has made this?

Harikeśa: But it's just eternally there. It's just, that's just the complete arrangement, it's everything.

Prabhupāda: But eternally there, but why the body of woman is attracted to man and the man's body is attracted? Who has made it? Between man and man there is no such attraction.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is being done through books.

Indian man (3): But sir, books are for such people who can read, who can understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something can be done by showing the picture, but taking consideration of the labor and money invested in that way, the response will be not satisfactory. It is not possible.

Indian man (3): What I was thinking was that we have a limited...

Prabhupāda: Simply by seeing that Kṛṣṇa is lifting the Govardhana Hill, they'll, many of them will laugh, that "This is all mythology. A boy is lifting Govardhana Hill." Many of them will laugh instead of taking seriously. Because unless one is devotee, he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he sees the boy Kṛṣṇa is lifting Govardhana Hill—he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa-he'll laugh.

Indian man (3): That is elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also.

Yaśomatīnandana: Mostly here. (several Indians talking at once) (end)

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What action you have got? Before that the verse is,

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

So this body is temporary, but it is very miserable. That they do not understand.

Indian Doctor: Kuṇape tri-dhātuke.

Prabhupāda: That they do not understand. That as soon as you accept a material body, either a very rich man's body or poor man's body or any body, either brāhmaṇa's body or śūdra's body, to accept material body means undergo miseries.

Indian Doctor: But you have no choice to accept. By the will of God...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got... You can become free. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti...

Indian Doctor: Bhakti-avyabhicāriṇī. I have got that tendency, bhakti, avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No, no, simply to know Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena ya... So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). So without bhakti there is no possibility to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll become free from this process of accepting material body.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But you should go gradually. You should go gradually. You first of all understand Kṛṣṇa, then kṛṣṇa-līlā. If you have not understood Kṛṣṇa, then you'll think Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā is just like we mix with young women. And that becomes as polluted. Because they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Kṛṣṇa understanding so easy? If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa how can you go to the Kṛṣṇa's confidential activities?

Acyutānanda: Some of the devotees, they said that it is for liberated souls. So they said, "Well, we are all liberated."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberated for going to hell.

Devotee: In your Kṛṣṇa book, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've given such clear explanations along with the stories of Kṛṣṇa that it's very difficult to misinterpret, because you use such clear explanation.

Prabhupāda: No, you read all the books first of all. Then you'll be able to understand.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Vāsughoṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This gentleman is the head of the Marwari community, Mr. Dinami (?). They only speak Hindi. They would like to speak to you but they don't understand English.

Prabhupāda: No, I can, (Hindi) (break) (Unless) one is enthused, he cannot preach. It is not possible. I went there when I was seventy years old. I was sitting in Vṛndāvana. So I thought that my Guru Mahārāja wanted me, Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted me... So in this old age let me try. (indistinct). But by Kṛṣṇa's grace it is becoming successful. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam (BG 10.10). So there is good field for propagating this cult. See our young men they are... (Hindi) Juhu mai beef(?) shop (Hindi) And I inquired some of the Hindu boys that "Do you eat meat?" So they began to smile, then they accepted. (Hindi) (break) ...platform is finished. (Hindi) Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Yathecchasi, yathā icchasi tathā kuru.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: That is not... You don't become Paramātmā. You become Paramātmā means that... You don't understand Paramātmā. Paramātmā is the Supreme, Supreme soul. How can you become...

Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept Paramātmā and ātmā different.

Indian man: Different, that is true.

Prabhupāda: Then dvaita-vāda. Where is advaita?

Indian man: Even dvaita does not, something different from advaitam. In this particular fundamental. But even advaitam does not say that ātmā is equal to Paramātmā. He never says that. You have māyā. Māyā will be field to you and that you get rid of that māyā and you try to elevate your soul to the ātmā. And you come, go to the Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of spiritual lesson. Because that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone of us, we are identifying with this body. Just like if somebody asks what you are, "I am Mr. such and such, I am Indian, I am this, I am that." He is giving identification of the body. But that he is not. He's not this body. That is self-realization. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)—two things—deha, this body, and asmin dehe, there is dehinaḥ, the owner of the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Because generally almost 99.9% people, they are thinking that I am this body.

Morning Walk -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Devotee: The ancient Egyptians used to put all their treasures...

Indian man (3): We don't understand that "All right, this is the end." So why not we understand and think in that line? That day you said that by chanting he thinks that he's chanting, maybe other people don't chant. So they don't know that they have to go. They think they are going to survive here only. They don't want to accept that they have to go, I think.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not want death. That I have...

Indian man (3): Yes. But definitely others are going and we won't go also.

Prabhupāda: That means he doesn't want to die. That is a concoction. Other side is that he doesn't want to die. It is the expression of the same sentiment in a different way.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Neophyte means that kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. One worships the Deity very nicely but he does not like to do good to others. Neither he knows who is Vaiṣṇava. He's neophyte. He is, in the arcanā, he's fixed up, he's doing very nicely. Arcāyām eva haraye. Yaḥ śraddhā..., pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate na tad-bhakteṣu. One does not understand who is bhakta. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. And how to do good to others. But he's doing the Deity worship very nicely. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. He's prākṛta. But he can advance when his, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he understands "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. Here is an innocent man. He should be given some enlightenment." That is preacher. When he'll feel for others. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to you." Tato vimukha-cetasa. And that is Vaiṣṇava. Advanced devotee. For me I have no anxiety. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vai... There may be so many dangers. I don't care for them. Naiva udvije. "I am not disturbed by all these things." Udvije. Para duratyaya. Even it is very insurmountable, dangerous position, I don't care. How? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ (SB 7.9.43)." Because when I think of You, chant of Your glories, I don't care for that." Then you appear to be morose? "Yes." Why? Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You. How to do... They are engaged in false activities, māyā-sukhāya, for temporary happiness of the senses. So I am thinking like them.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Based. Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). By studying Vedas, Upaniṣads, if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, that means your study is not complete. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After studying this indirect information of Kṛṣṇa, when one is actually a learned, wise man, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That is very rarely found. This is fact. So if one is intelligent, that if only the most intelligent person, after many, many births one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why not do it immediately? Why shall I wait for many, many births? That is intelligence.

Doctor: Śrī-kṛṣṇas tu śaraṇaṁ mama.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is intelligence. But that intelligence is not possible for ordinary persons. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. One who gets this intelligence, such kind of mahātmā, is very, very rarely found. To take it immediately, ah, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is very difficult.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is special advantage of this age. People are very much fallen from spiritual standard, and to fall down from the spiritual standard means to spoil the humanity. There is no education on this point. That is Vedic culture. Most of them, they do not believe that there is soul, spirit soul, and human life is meant for understanding it and make progress on that platform. Most of them, they do not know. There is no education, I think so. Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā, mostly, but they do not understand the first lesson. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. What is your understanding about this transmigration of the soul?

Indian man (1): We consider that man gets life after death according to his karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you believe on this?

Indian man (1): We have this belief.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the preparation? If we believe that we have to get another life after death, then what preparation we have made?

Indian man (1): Preparation? We... The real truth is we don't know.

Prabhupāda: That is I am saying.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-mārga is enough. Bhakti-mārga means it includes everything. Without jñāna, there is no bhakti. The jñāna is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20); that is real jñāna. If you... Aiye. If you understand your position, then it is jñāna. If you do not understand your position, then where is jñāna? Do you follow? Therefore Bhagavān says, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). When... So long you are ajñāna, in ignorance, you cannot be happy. You cannot be happy. But when you are in jñāna, then you'll be happy. That is the symptom of becoming jñānī. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ātmā becomes very happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any lamentation and hankering. There are two things in this material world. We are hankering after something which we do not possess, and we are lamenting for something which we possessed and we have lost. This is the disease, material disease. So when one comes to the platform of jñāna, then he has no more such disease, hankering and lamenting. Here the whole world is going on, lamenting and hankering. So brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means na śocati na kāṅkṣati and samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. And here, so long we are on the material platform, we are not samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. We are thinking, "You are different from me; I am different from you. My interest is first." You are thinking your interest is first and so on, so on. So not samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. But when you become actually jñānī, brahma-bhūtaḥ, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When you are in distress, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, prasannātmā, then bhakti begins. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). So bhakti is not so easy thing.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Fourth Chapter, you find, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa says that this Bhagavad-gītā knowledge was first of all given to.... Fourth Chapter. Yes.

imaṁ ivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

(BG 4.2)

"Now, this paramparā system being lost, I am again reviving the Bhagavad-gītā again to you, Arjuna." That means the author says if one does not understand Bhagavad-gītā through the paramparā system then the whole thing is lost. So you cannot interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way. Then the authority and the purport of Bhagavad-gītā is lost. So we are trying to revive this paramparā system, and fortunately we have sold million copies of this edition of Bhagavad-gītā. We are printing five hundred thousand, three hundred thousand, like that. And all over the world... There are many Bhagavad-gītās. There are about six hundred and forty different editions. But still our, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, it is being accepted very widely, and therefore we are very much hopeful.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they collect money by selling book.

Haṁsadūta: I know but people don't understand this. They simply see that, "Oh, these are astronomical sums of money being collected. So what is being done with this money by people who are just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What do they do with it?" Then, "Oh, they have bought this big building in New York, they are doing spending money like this, like that." Ultimately this is what it always come to, money. They want to see what is happening with the money.

Prabhupāda: And similarly here also, "Where they are getting money?"

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, because wherever there is money transaction, the government wants to take some. They feel, "Well, we should have some of this money for ourselves, also."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Hari-śauri: Simply ignorance.

Prabhupāda: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: But your teaching, doesn't it offer a way of meeting these problems?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are teaching people God consciousness. Then everything will be solved.

Dr. Kneupper: You say that man does not understand nature. The scientist studies nature but yet he doesn't really understand it.

Prabhupāda: Why they do not understand it? Why don't you understand that there is control over us? Where is the difficulty? Foolishly we do not try to understand. Do you admit it, that above us there is control? Do you admit?

Dr. Kneupper: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone.

Dr. Kneupper: Some people do.

Prabhupāda: Why others? That means they are foolish.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that "I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight." This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and "I am Christian" or "Hindu" or "Mohammedan, so let us fight." That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Does it appear also in, let's say, Christianity, in Muslim, Mohammedanism?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that every religion, there is an attempt to understand God. Why do they not understand God, what is God? Then everything will be solved. But they are decrying, "There is no God. God is dead," and "There is no need of God, now we have got science." In every step they are trying to kill God. That's all.

Dr. Kneupper: That's true of certain people, but there are also many...

Prabhupāda: Majority, they do not understand what is God.

Dr. Kneupper: There are many sincere seekers, I think, in Christians and Moslems. At least I have met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be. There must be some sincere men. That can be admitted. But still the sincere man also does not understand clearly what is the meaning of God. "I believe in God." "I believe in God," they say. Just like in America they say, "We trust in God." But what is God, he does not know. So what is the meaning of this, "I trust in God"? That is a phobia.

Dr. Kneupper: It probably means many things.

Prabhupāda: If I say, "What do you mean by God," they cannot give any clear definition. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, "Here is God. Take Him." But they have no knowledge. They will say, "They are presenting some Hindu god," and then they do not accept Him.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I go in a park. There is nice tank, reservoir of water, very decorated. And if I think, "There is no proprietor," is it not my foolishness? There must be one proprietor, but I do not know him. That is real sense. Similarly, everything has got proprietor. Why the sea and the land, the so many other things, why there is no proprietor? This is foolishness.

Dr. Kneupper: I don't understand how this relates to distinguishing who are the true teachers...

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. Everyone is foolish now. You cannot distinguish who is thief and who is not thief. (Bengali) If you study everyone you will find everyone is rascal at the present moment.

Dr. Kneupper: But surely there are some who are...

Prabhupāda: Some must be there. There is no doubt about it. But they are so in minority. Who will hear about them? "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is rascal. If somebody is intelligent, who cares for him? Just like people laugh at me that I am talking of God. I am not only talking. I am writing so many books. My only endeavor is to understand God, that's all. There is no sectarian. And I am selling my books all over the world. So not that everyone is foolish. They're trying to understand my presentation, big, big scholars, big, big philosophers. Yes.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Nobody will come for my darśana, but if you want I'll go.

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult task.

Mahāṁśa: Because they are all very anxious to see you, because the...

Prabhupāda: All right, I shall go. What is that? The difficulty is I would gone very gladly, but they do not understand my language, neither Hindi, nor English.

Mahāṁśa: It can be translated in Telugu.

Prabhupāda: Then I am shall go. I shall go.

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I shall go. I shall speak. Give them very nice food. From tomorrow I will... If there are rascals, you'll bring. I will pay nice cook. Make varieties, very palatable food. Kichranna,(?) puṣpānna, rice, there are so many preparations. Paramānna. You do not make paramānna, kichranna,(?) puṣpānna. There are varieties of rice preparation. They know, the southern people, with curd, yogurt...

Mahāṁśa: Tamarind.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Harikeśa: By your talking, I'm also thinking we should have a farm in Germany, I know...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, why not? Everywhere. I myself when I go to the farm, I forget whether it is India, or Germany, or France. I forget. The land is there. Sarva-kāma-dughā. We get everything from that. I have several times said that why they make this distinction? This is France, this is India, this is... Everywhere is God's land. Why these rascals make division, I do not understand. Every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and you are sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. All rascals, mūḍha. There is rain now and then fall in Europe?

Harikeśa: Yes, now it's very much.

Haṁsadūta: Now it's too late.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: Now it's too late.

Harikeśa: I mean, it wasn't there, but now it's so much.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But God is giving hint that if, "Rascal, it is in My hand. I can keep you in starvation to death." The man is dull brain. Anyway, I am anxious to learn, why so many people are suffering? They have become all gray. Throughout whole France I saw. From Paris to Valencay I went. Gray. These people are not lazy, but there was no water. They utilize every inch land for agricultural purpose. At least I saw in France. Then maybe everywhere in Europe. They are not lazy fellow. There is organization, government organization here. People, they... Anyway let us show some example. Immediately make program. You have seen, yes?

Devotee: Yes.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra? Śāstra means it is authorized. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Therefore all the ācāryas, they accept it. Still the ācārya-sampradāyas are there. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkara, they accept all this. And at the time of...

Guest (2): Do you accept the supremacy of the Vedas, veda-pramāṇam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then you do not know what is Veda. Your knowledge of Vedas will be accepted when you understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you do not know what Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of taking so much trouble to study Vedas? You do not know anything. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

Dr. Ramachandra: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. That is knowledge.

Dr. Ramachandra: Sa mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā. If you do not know vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), śrama eva hi kevalam: (SB 1.2.8) simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (1): Once He says, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, and again He says, vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi. So the meaning of that word is...

Prabhupāda: So does it mean that He is not sarvam? One who does not understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), particular, "It is also vāsudeva. It is also vāsudeva. It is also vāsudeva," that is called less intelligent. Otherwise one who is intelligent, he'll under..., vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) "Everything is vāsudeva." Sa mahātmā. But if he has no intelligence, then "I am this, I am God. I am Kṛṣṇa." The same example, just like here is a tree. If I say, "The root, you pour water," here is everything. Otherwise this is also tree, the leaf is also tree, the twig also tree, the flower is also tree... You go on like that. They are of the same value. But if one is intelligent, he will understand, "Here is everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam, the root. That's all. What is that?

Devotee: I was just telling this gentleman that the reporters may have some other questions also.

Prabhupāda: Then that is his wish. (pause) This is our movement.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore better they do not take it.

Guest (9): It's easy to go in the virgin soil.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not understand what is the meaning of śāstra. They want to interpret śāstra in their own way. That is the difficulty. Big, big person...

Guest (9): Real testing would be only in India in that case.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not speak for Indians. He is for everyone.

Guest (9): The sections of your movement accept in that sense.

Prabhupāda: No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up, that "This religion and śāstra has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You cannot make a mass meeting and pass resolution and you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not like that. Workers must be also very śreṣṭhas, not ordinary workers. He must understand Kṛṣṇa. Then he can... It is not foolish, what kind of (indistinct). So if you want to prove Bhagavad-gītā, find out the śreṣṭhas of the country, sit down. Not that at mass conference—you bring meeting (?) And preaching. Select! If you understand then you can preach. But if you do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, how to understand Bhagavad-gītā, what is Kṛṣṇa... And Kṛṣṇa says that

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me."

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa. So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he's learned scholar, he's a big politician or a big yogi or big jñānī. Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural he'll interpret in his way, his own philosophy. That is not (indistinct). If you take jñāna, yoga, karma, or other.... But it is not possible. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it. And if you preach, that will be effective.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: The point is there only explained in different way.

Prabhupāda: But that is not many ways. It is a kind of explanation. This is this. If you do not understand that this, this is this. The point is one, that your brother is not your brother's body. So there cannot be many answers. Answer is one.

Indian man: Answer is one. Ways, as you have mentioned just now. Different ways.

Prabhupāda: Not different ways. Different explanation. (break) So any question, any problem, it is solved not by the whims of the student, but it is solved by the expert master by explaining it very elaborately.

Indian man: So the little knowledge I possess. In a classroom there are different types of students. One are sharp, certain are dull. Certain are absolutely dull. The degrees of understanding are different from student to student.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's alright. That is explanation. That is not different way.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: They can understand the same way? They have to come up to bhakta.

Prabhupāda: No, not same way. Because he is dull. Still wanting to become something. He is dull. There is no question of becoming. Just like they say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. You are already Brahman. But on account of your dullness of brain, you are thinking that "I am becoming Brahman." You are already Brahman. You are already Brahman. Because, if he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahman. So Para-brahman part and parcel must be Brahman. How it can be otherwise? It is a question of, so long one does not understand that he is Brahman, he is trying to become Brahman.

Indian man: Due to ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Due to ignorance. So so long one wants to become Brahman, he is ignorant.

Indian man: Knowledge is futile? Knowledge, it becomes futile then.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because trying to become. There is no question of becoming.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: So beautiful you explain mother. Similarly just let me understand father also.

Prabhupāda: No, no, beautifully, yes, everything is beautiful. We first know that without father, mother, there cannot be birth. So everything, whatever you, sarva-bhūtāni, sarva-bhūtāni, whatever is coming out, they are coming out as child of the earth. And you do not know who is the father. The father says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). You understand the father. How you do not understand? The father says, "I am the father." You are searching after the father, and father says, and mother certifies, "Yes, He is your father." You don't require any other knowledge.

Indian man: This is fact. I am not understanding.

Prabhupāda: It is a simple truth (indistinct). The father says, I am the father. Therefore what can be done? He says, the father says that "I am the father." Mother certifies, "Yes, he is your father." Still if you do not understand, what can be done?

Indian man: You indicated very beautifully mother. I accept that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also beautifully indicated. The father says personally, but you are so dull-headed you cannot understand.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: "You simply take this process. Think of Me always." And the next, He says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). No. There are other processes? Give away, kick away. Take this. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is meanings of the... But because one cannot understand, therefore He has explained karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, this yoga. And He has explained also the meaning

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"He is first class yogi who has taken to Me only, thinking of Me." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā. "Always within the heart, who is thinking of Me, first-class yogi." One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he may be a yogi, a third-class, fourth-class yogi. Not a first-class.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: That He says, of course.

Prabhupāda: He says everything but because we are foolish we do not hear Him. That is the difficulty.

Mr. Malhotra: We don't understand Him.

Prabhupāda: No, we understand. But we do not accept it. What is the difficulty to understand? God is superior. Everyone knows it. But I will not accept, he will not accept. Unless one is superior, how He can be God? (break) ...sevayā. Therefore you have to find out somebody who knows Him. Otherwise you will be in darkness. (break)

Mr. Malhotra: (Hindi) Over bridge. But where we are going, Ambleswar (?), from there Kṛṣṇā-nadī starts.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Kṛṣṇā-nadī is for us.

Mr. Malhotra: From Ambleswar. Then there is old, old mandira, very old mandira, temple, there are five nadīs are coming.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kaumuda, Kāverī...

Mr. Malhotra: Kṛṣṇā, Kāverī, Veṇā, five rivers flow from there. We will go there, tomorrow morning we'll go. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...just now. In the morning it was little cold. Now it is very pleasing.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Then if one understands ahaṁ brahmāsmi...

Prabhupāda: No, simply does not understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but he engages himself in devotional service. That is not the end. Simply by understanding that "I am this," that is not sufficient. "I am this and this is my duty."

Mr. Malhotra: "I am this and this is my duty." Then that is what is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is liberation.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

That is perfection of brahma-jñāna.

Mr. Malhotra: But in the final analysis, at...

Prabhupāda: Final analysis is devotional service.