Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Kṛṣṇa is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, he was not a sannyāsī. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila pārthiva vānaraḥ.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw. So at the end of business it was half cut so he pulled down a, I mean to say, a plug so that next day he will come and he'll again begin sawing. So went away. So one monkey came. So monkey sat down there and began to pull on the plug because monkey's business is simply mischievous. So he did not know that his plough (?) and some portion of his thigh was within the hole and when he took out this plug it was, (claps) I mean to say, clipped, and he could not get out and died. So the instruction is that... 'Khila pārthiva vānaraḥ, vyāpare suvyaparam. Avyāpara means a occupation, an occupation which is not fit for you. That is avyāpara. Avyāpara-suvyaparam. And one occupation which is not exactly fitting you, you do not know how to do it, so avyāpare suvyaparam yo kartu... If one wants to act in a business in which he is unable to do, then he is killed just like this fool monkey. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate. That foolish person is killed just like this monkey. The monkey's business was not to imitate the sawman, but he wanted to imitate. The result was that he was killed. So that is not expertness. Expertness is you just try to do which is easily performed by you. You don't accept anything heavy task because Kṛṣṇa does not want that you have to do this heavy task. Whatever you know, you just apply it.
Do not accept (Conversations 1968 - 1972)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness. They are unhappy for this godlessness. And as a result of this godlessness, the Communist party have sprang up, the hippies have sprang up and so many other things will gradually spring up. So there is no check. It is... The only check is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if people are taught that he can be happy only by reestablishing his eternal relationship with God. So our test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness or love of God. We do not accept any principle of religion as genuine if we see that the followers have no love of God but they have got love of matter. We testify the, I mean to say, bona fides of a religious principle... Of course, in religious principle there is the teaching to become God conscious, to accept the authority of God, but because they are not properly taught, the followers are becoming godless, not only here, in India also. That is the position everywhere. So our proposition is to make people God conscious. It doesn't matter what he is. Either he is Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness procedure is to raise or to develop love of Godhead. And as soon as he develops love of Godhead, then he becomes happy individually and collectively because there is love. He wants to love somebody else, but he is placing his love wrongly. He is placing his love... Even one has nobody to love, he is loving cats and dogs. So love is there, but he does not know where to place his love and be happy. This is the information, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Our guru or spiritual master comes down from that disciplic succession. It is not that, that somebody all of a sudden becomes guru and manufactures his own philosophy. We don't accept such nonsense. We must accept somebody who is actually bona fide, coming in disciplic succession, not others.
Interviewer: What is your opinion of yoga and Zen? Do you incorporate any of their principles? Such as meditation for example?
Prabhupāda: Any principles of religion current in the world, they are all included in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, any principle. But just like if you have got two millions of dollars, the ten dollars, fifty dollars, five hundred dollars, five thousand dollars, or go on increasing, everything is included there, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is perfect. Just like in New York there is a building, Empire State Building. It is 102 stories. So one who has gone up to the topmost story, 102, it is to be understood that he has passed over the fiftieth story or fortieth story or tenth story or all the stories. So one who has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows everything, the meditation, the yoga, this practice, that practice. Everything is there. That we can give proof. It is practically. So we have to simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be included there.
Interviewer: What is your hierarchy in Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, do you have anything comparable to bishops and the hierarchy of the Christian faith and of other major faiths? That is, you are the spiritual preceptor, and who are all those below you, between you and the congregation, the members?
Prabhupāda: The demigods means they are highly advanced than these human beings. They are also living entities like us, but their duration of life, their standard of life, their civilization, spiritual knowledge, so advanced that they are called demigods. Almost God. They are so advanced. Demigods means almost God. They have got all godly qualities, and they are controller of the atmospheric affairs. Some of them are controlling rainy season, some of them controlling heat. As you have got controller here, some departmental director of this department, director of that department, similarly why don't you think that this cosmic manifestation, there is a great brain behind it and there are different directors and there is management? People do not accept it. Nature. What do you mean by nature? Such nice things, such wonderful things are going on automatically, without any control? You see?
Journalist: Well, I know that's a question that, of course, one asks oneself all the time, I guess. It's part of man's quest to find himself and...
Prabhupāda: But they should have common sense that you are trying to float one sputnik, so many scientific brains are working. And millions of wonderful sputniks which are called planets, they are floating in the air, there is no brain behind it. What is this? Is that very good reasoning?
Journalist: I don't know. I must ponder that.
Prabhupāda: You should know it. How it can be. There must be a very big brain behind this. They are working.
Journalist: Now do you say that the moon is, so to speak...? What should I say? Headquarters, where these demigods live?
Prabhupāda: No, there are many planets on the same level. There are many planets. Moon is one of them.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But our formula is that one should live... It is called sato vṛtteḥ. The vṛtti, the profession or the means of livelihood, must be very fair. Must be very fair. Sato vṛtteḥ. Because association will contaminate my mind and my intelligence, therefore, as far as possible, sato vṛtti. And this sato vṛtti is a Sanskrit word. According to the purification of profession, livelihood, one is called a brāhmaṇa, one is called a kṣatriya, one is called a vaiśya, one is called a śūdra, one is called lower than the śūdras. You see? So that is also... But in this age one cannot stick to a particular profession. Just like for the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas... For brāhmaṇas it is enjoined that they should learn scripture and they should preach scripture. That's all. They have six kinds of occupation. One of the main is this, to learn and to teach. But at the present moment everything has changed. So there is change. But as far as possible, we don't accept a profession or any job which is abominable.
Interviewer: What else would you like to tell us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I like to tell to everyone that this human form of life is meant for reviving our original pure consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should not waste time because life is very short. And therefore, before we meet next death, we must finish this job of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly so that our human mission may be fulfilled. Yes. That is what I want to say. This is a very scientific and authorized means of purifying consciousness, and it is very easy also at the same time. It can be accepted without any loss, but the gain is very great. So people should take advantage of this movement and fulfill the mission of human form of life.
Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is said that nobody is seeing... This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the..., that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: "God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him." So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, "I am God," we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than... Even contemporary... Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am... Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test. And na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: "And he has nothing to do." There are so many things to test who is God. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. Nobody shall be richer than him; nobody shall be stronger than him; nobody shall be wiser than him; nobody shall be beautiful than him. So these things have to be tested, whether he is God. And simply if I claim, "Oh, I am God," there will... No testament? If I say, "I am President Nixon," will you accept it? If you don't accept it, even an ordinary President Nixon, without testing his credentials, how you will accept a false man as God without testing? You must know what is that test. Credential. He must present credential. Just like when some ambassador comes to a foreign country, there is a ceremony that that ambassador must be recognized by the governor or the governor-general in that state, and he has to place his credentials, similarly, anybody is claiming as God, he has to place his credentials. And what is that credential? The test is there in the Upaniṣad, in the Bhagavad-gītā and so many, all literatures, Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedānta-sūtra, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam first it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1).
Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?
Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.
Kīrtanānanda: You don't have the characteristics.
Prabhupāda: No. That means you are not rascal. You are sane, that you do not accept me as President... That is one thing. At least you are not insane. So if I say, "God," and you accept, then how much insane you are. Just try to understand. How much insanity is there, one who is claiming that "I am God" and one who is accepting that he is God. This is insanity.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to consult. Therefore you have to take, just like when you can not understand something, we consult some great authority. Is it not?
Allen Ginsberg: Not enough to make me dream of it at night, no. Not enough to make me love it. Words are not enough. That authority is not enough to make me love it.
Prabhupāda: You don't accept authority?
Allen Ginsberg: Not enough to love.
Prabhupāda: No, love, apart from love.
Allen Ginsberg: Not enough to...
Prabhupāda: Consult.
Allen Ginsberg: ...going to accept authority. It's just that...
Prabhupāda: Consult, consult.
Allen Ginsberg: I can't even understand an authority that says that I am there when I don't feel myself there.
Prabhupāda: Well, suppose when you are in some legal trouble, you go to lawyer. You cannot understand. Why do you say you cannot understand? Where you have disease where do you go to a physician. You see? Authority you accept.
Allen Ginsberg: In America we've had a great deal of difficulty with authority.
Prabhupāda: They will be so dull, so dull. It requires brain to understand. Just like in the Bhāgavata it is said that evaṁ prasanna-manaso (SB 1.2.20), "fully joyful," bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, "by practice of bhakti-yoga." Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, mukta-saṅgasya: "and freed from all material contamination." He can understand God. Do you think God is so cheap thing, anyone will understand? Because they do not understand, they present something nonsense: "God is like this. God is like that. God is like that." And when God Himself comes, that "Here I am, Kṛṣṇa," they don't accept it. They'll create their own God.
Allen Ginsberg: So Kalki comes at the end of the Kali-yuga?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: And is Kalki connected with the Kali-yuga cycle?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalki, yes.
Allen Ginsberg: So He would come at the end of Kali-yuga to end the yuga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then Satya-yuga will begin.
Allen Ginsberg: Then what begins?
Prabhupāda: Satya-yuga.
Allen Ginsberg: Which is?
Prabhupāda: Satya-yuga, the pious. Satya-yuga. People will be pious, truthful, long-living.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is yama, niyama, āsana, praṇāyāma—the eight principles of yoga system. And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help. The first two steps are yama, niyama, then āsana, then praṇāyāma, then pratyāhāra, then dhyāna, then dhāraṇā, then samādhi. These are explained in the yogic śāstra or Bhagavad-gītā. So this man, although born of a brāhmaṇa father... Now, here it is said that naṣṭa-sadācāra. Although he is born of a brāhmaṇa father, his ācāra, his dealings for advancing in spiritual life...A brāhmaṇa is expected to be truthful, to be self-controlled, to be fully cognizant of spiritual life, practical application in life, jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, to have complete faith in the statement of the śāstras. That is... That is called āstikyam. We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion because we consider them nāstika.
Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, why fail? The schools are going on. Colleges are going on.
Guest (1): Therefore they are fearing also...
Prabhupāda: Still, they are not closed.
Guest (1): Closed... Today they are coming to that.
Prabhupāda: That is another theory. But the process is, our Vedic process, tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to understand tat knowledge one must approach a spiritual master." Gacchet. If you don't accept these principles, then how you can make progress? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you don't accept this principle, there is no possibility. Then you can go on thinking in your own way. There is no question of going to anyone. You make yourself perfect by thinking, as many others are doing, speculating. That is possible but never to the perfectional point.
Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?
Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.
Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?
Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.
Guest (1): So how we know?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, who is higher authority. That you have to search out. That you have to search out.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority. Do you accept that?
Guest (1): I mean, I am shown the form. You see...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of shown. Kṛṣṇa is accepted higher authority not only by us by big ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, those who are guiding our Vedic life in India, Caitanya. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the highest authority. (break) Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nāsti: "There is no more higher authority than Me." Then, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority, that is your business, but we accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority.
Guest (1): So something is coming in that way because Kṛṣṇa, that was what He had said in a particular time or country...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Authority means..., it does not mean a time.
Guest (1): No, for that time.
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all try, try... Authority means...
Guest (1): For the time.
Prabhupāda: All the time. That is authority.
Guest (1): No, but later, later many lights shining...
Prabhupāda: All the time. That is authority.
Guest (1): No, but later, later many lights shining...
Prabhupāda: (knock on door) Yes, open it. Anyway, to make cut short, to make cut short, so far we are concerned, we have declared, "International Society for Krishna Consciousness." Our process of propaganda is that Kṛṣṇa is the highest authority. That is our... You may take it that we are limited; that is your business. But we have taken this. Now, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority, then there is no question of inquiring from us.
Guest (1): What is the form, you see, I mean...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the form. Here is Kṛṣṇa's form.
Guest (1): No, no, not that form.
Prabhupāda: Then what form?
Guest (1): What I mean is we are accepting anything to bring ourselves to certain destination which will satisfy us all. For that we are...
Prabhupāda: Nothing can satisfy everyone. That is not possible. There is no such thing within this material world which can satisfy everyone. There is no such thing.
Guest (1): Because we...
Prabhupāda: No, no, because... There may be so many "because." But the fact is that there is nothing in this material world which can satisfy everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, no, your... I have summarized that first of all you have come to inquire from us that our standard of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the standard of perfection of knowledge, then there is possibility of our talking. Otherwise simply waste of time. Why shall we waste our time? Our standard is Kṛṣṇa. If you are agreeable to accept the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then there is possibility. Just like here is a lawyer. He goes to the lawyer. He speaks, he pleads, on the standard of the lawbooks. If somebody comes, "No, no, I don't accept this," then there is no question of argument. Both the lawyers are arguing. The central point is the lawbook. So you must have a central point on which we shall talk. If you have no central point...
Guest (1): Central point of happiness is there now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, your point is happiness; my point is happiness. That is all right. But what is that happiness? Just like the same example can be that two litigants, they have gone to the court. Their aim is justice. But how that justice can be had, that is an argument and on the point of law. Similarly, everyone's point is happiness. And what is that standard of happiness, that you have to take from some authority. That authority we accept, Kṛṣṇa. And if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then we cannot come to the conclusion what is happiness. So you will simply waste our time. Begin ārati. (break) You see? It was... Sometimes the light was coming, sometimes... That means they were adjusting. There was some meeting, adjusting. As soon as it is coming to the real point it was light. And as soon as not in the real point there is no light. So it is a science. Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānam It is a vijñāna. It is not a theoretical, whimsical...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā; I am replying from Bhagavad-gītā. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā, so your answer should be given from the Bhagavad-gītā. You told me that Kṛṣṇa or God comes when there is such and such adharma, so what is adharma, what is dharma, who is sādhu—these things should be understood. But generally, this movement is to create sādhus. So you have to give time. You have to cooperate. This incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and nāma, Kṛṣṇa's name, is the same. Abhinnatvaṁ nāma-naminoḥ: "There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa." So you encourage this movement. You will see that there will be no more fighting. Kṛṣṇa has come. Welcome Kṛṣṇa. But if you noncooperate with Kṛṣṇa, then how you'll get happiness? Kṛṣṇa has already come by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You receive Him. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). You are all respectable gentlemen. You accept it. Then others will follow. Tat tad evetaro janaḥ. And if leading personalities of the society, they reject it, then how Kṛṣṇa is welcome? How can you expect? (Hindi) Everyone should welcome this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then actually there will be dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Everything will be done. Just like when Kṛṣṇa was personally present, how many received Him? Only the Pāṇḍavas and the gopīs and the Vṛndāvana-līlā is there. Nobody knew Him as Kṛṣṇa. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, how many knew Him that He was Kṛṣṇa? But everyone benefited. Everyone benefited. Everyone who died in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra, they got salvation. That is stated in Bhīṣma's teachings. So they got the benefit, but not that everyone understood Kṛṣṇa. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum... (BG 9.11). Many... Even nowadays there are so many scholars... They want swamis. They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even nowadays, what to speak of then? Even at the present moment. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is their business, killing... Kaṁsa's business. Kaṁsa was trying killing Kṛṣṇa, always thinking, "how to kill Kṛṣṇa?" So so many Bhagavad-gītā commentators, scholars, their only business is how to drive away Kṛṣṇa from Bhagavad-gītā. That is their... They do not give on the personality of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I have several times told you. Even scholars like Dr. Rādhā-Krishnan, he says like that, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, person." Why? Why this demonic attitude? How you can get help from Kṛṣṇa? That is... We are discussing now, daivī-sampāt and āsuri-sampāt. Āsuri-sampāt means to kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all, to wipe out Kṛṣṇa from Bhagavad-gītā and bring something else. Six hundred and sixty-four editions of Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. Prasāda. (end)
Prabhupāda: From the authorities, from God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Male Interviewer: But if somebody else was to say that God had told him something else, would you equally believe him?
Śyāmasundara: It's not that we don't accept other religious processes.
Prabhupāda: No, we believe other process. Just like there are steps. If you want to go to the topmost story, so you go by steps. So some of them have gone fifty steps, some of them have gone hundred steps, but to complete the required steps is 1,000 steps.
Male Interviewer: And you've gone up the thousand have you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman Interviewer: If any of us here this morning wish to become followers what would we have to give or give up?
Prabhupāda: First of all one has to give up illicit sex life.
Woman Interviewer: Does that include all sex life or...?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Woman Interviewer: What is illicit?
Prabhupāda: Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe. Everything must be related with God.
Sister Mary: Well, if you're relaxing, if you need to relax, and you sit and listen to some music, it doesn't say praise God all the time, but in fact is, because it's beautiful.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept anything beautiful without God. Without God, everything is ugly to us. Everything ugly.
Sister Mary: So you have to bless it by offering it to God first.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing.
Revatīnandana: Just like we have so many beautiful songs and melodies and everything. They're very nice. And we sing these songs. They are glorifying the Lord. And we enjoy like that. Music is there, everything is there, but because it is directly in the devotional service of God, therefore there is this bhakti, there is this devotion there. Devotion to God. Without that, everything becomes void. Tasteless.
Guest (2): Can I get one point straight? Is the Beethoven symphony all right provided it is blessed as an object and a work of art. Is it then all right? Or is it not all right because it doesn't use religious themes?
Haṁsadūta: Originally, music and art were employed only to glorify the Lord in the scripture and...
Prabhupāda: In Sāma-veda, Sāma-veda.
Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?
Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...
Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?
Journalist (1): But to become God conscious do you think they have to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, you become devotee of God. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa, then... You have got some idea of God? Or not?
Journalist (1): You could accept the idea of God in another manner than your church?
Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?
Journalist (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then you take from me. Why you are refusing? If you do not know then take it from me. And if you know better than me, you give it to me. You do not know; still, you will not accept. Then what is your position? That you don't want to know God. When I say, "Do you know what is God?" you say, "No." When I present God, you say, "Why shall I accept? It is your God." At least we have got some God. But you know, do not know what is God. So my position is better than you.
Mensa Member: So you wouldn't accept the prime mover either?
Dr. Weir: Well, it's not an argument, it's a postulate. I don't accept it. I mean, you have to accept it if you're going to... You know the (indistinct), so to speak. You can't have it half way.
Prabhupāda: This word positive and negative. Just like the sun—the backside is the negative and the front side is the positive, light and darkness.
Dr. Weir: Well the sun doesn't have a backside of darkness. It's light all round.
Prabhupāda: I mean to say, in relationship with the sun, the planet, the planet, in the front side there is light. In the backside there is darkness. But the darkness is the effect of the light. Where the light is absent there is darkness.
Dr. Weir: Only to an observer. If there's no observer there, there's no difference between light and dark.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the actual position. Just like this is sun, but this side is light, this side is darkness. So light and darkness, two opposite elements. But it is due to the same cause. Absence of light is darkness. And presence of light is light.
Dr. Weir: Or I say there are some things that have those dichotomies and others don't.
Prabhupāda: No. One thing is that somebody's concluding that to solve this problem, birth, death, old age, disease, is impossibility. That is one school. Another school (indistinct) that there is possibility of control over the birth, death, old age and disease. So why not this school, who does not say that is impossible. No, there is possible. Just like we follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaun... (BG 4.9). that "Anyone who understands Me, follows Me, he, after quitting this body, no more accept this material body but comes to Me." Now, so long I accept this material body these problems are there, birth, death, old age and disease. Then if I don't accept this material body then these problems are solved immediately.
Dr. Weir: This is what they call "Solution by Denial".
Prabhupāda: It is not called solution. It is a fact because it is followed... Then you have come to the original position, to follow the mahājanas. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Our (indistinct) is guided by that, mahājana. We accept the mahājanas, the great personalities who have achieved success. We follow.
Dr. Weir: Let us now praise famous men and our fathers who beget us as they oddly enough seem always to be (indistinct) but I've never been able to understand why.
Śyāmasundara: But the whole idea is that these personalities have to be in a living form, not just in the past. But they live in the form of the spiritual master who's there to guide us personally. Not just praise someone in the past. Unless this process is transmitted in a human form personally, it's not...
Mensa Member: I don't accept your um... The point you were making when you began that analogy, I think, was that people that do go for spiritual knowledge, in quotes, um, it would appear there was something wrong with them.
Dr. Weir: No, no, not always. I say there are some people who obviously... If they have to look for it, they haven't got it. The people who've got it, don't need to look for it.
Mensa Member: Yeah. Resorting to the accursed thing again, some people go to the doctor that are sick some people aren't sick, are hypochondriacs.
Śyāmasundara: It's just like if someone points out to you, for instance, this material world is based upon sense gratification and everyone is striving to gratify the impulse of their senses. That's a verbalization of a truth which is not apparent in any other way, or it's very difficult to find out in any other way. So suddenly that knowledge awakens one to a higher desire, to attain something higher. So that is the point of verbalization of these things. If we are silent how will someone be awakened to that truth, that simply by saying this material world spins upon this principle of material sense gratification. That's a truth that you can easily verbalize.
Dr. Weir: Well, I think there's a double difference always with these things between the subject and the object. If in other words, it's objectively necessary to gratify the senses, if you like. In other words, you've got to have diets and things like that, and you've got to breathe, but you can also get a subjective pleasure out of doing that which is different from just doing it automatically. Sometimes we know when we're busy, we just shovel our food down. We don't really have any gratification out of it. We just ha...
Śyāmasundara: Yes. There are four basic principles that Prabhupāda mentioned, eating, sleeping, mating and defending, which are natural for the animals or to the humans. But man is using his propensity, his conscious propensity, to simply enjoy material nature on a more advanced level: to eat better, to sleep more, to have better sex life and so on. It still boils down to that. Everyone is seeking sense pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Such propensities are there in animals. Then what makes the difference between animals and man?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.
Devotee: If you don't accept a spiritual discipline, then nature forces so many...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Māyā is imposing so many difficulties, but as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no more imposition.
Śyāmasundara: We are so foolish that we are always thinking, "In the future I'll be happy."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is māyā, illusion. That is an ass. You sit down on the back of the ass and just take a morsel of grass. He'll go. The ass is thinking, "Let me go forward little, and I shall get the ass, er, grass." But it is... One feet distant it always remains. That is ass-ism. (laughter) That is not... Everyone is thinking, "Let me go a little forward, and I'll get it. (break) ...get it, be very happy." (break)
Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.
Dr. Kapoor: About the Bhāgavata also he says that there is the mention of Buddha in Bhāgavata and many descendants of Buddha who lived...
Prabhupāda: The Buddhists, they don't accept that verse. Kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati, buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ. They do not accept. About Buddha, in Hindu literature, Vedic literature, there is mention, bhaviśyati, feature(?). That is insult to them. Therefore, they do not accept this verse. Neither we say Buddha is incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. They do not accept this. They think it is insult.
Dr. Kapoor: Insulting them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Hindu gods... But in one Buddha temple, I have seen in Penang, there is Viṣṇu-mūrti. Yes, four hundred years old. That is a Buddhist temple.
Guru dāsa: Dr. Chandra has found many.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru dāsa: Dr. Chandra has found many Viṣṇu-mūrtis in Buddhist temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru dāsa: This Caitanya who has written this book can say that since Viṣṇu is in the Buddhist temple that this proves that Viṣṇu is an offshoot of Buddhism.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he can say like that. But the offshoot he cannot say. Viṣṇu is long, long ago mentioned, Buddha is later. Buddha can be from Viṣṇu, but Viṣṇu cannot be from Buddha.
Guru dāsa: So how do they speak of that chronologically? They don't accept that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as five thousand years old?
Dr. Kapoor: No. (break) This bundle...
Śyāmasundara: No, those are documents.
Dr. Kapoor: Documents?
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, photocopies.
Dr. Kapoor: You promised to give me a photo of Prabhupāda.
Guru dāsa: I'll give you one.
Prabhupāda: If you have got any colored photo, you can give him. So we have now increased eighty-seven.
Śyāmasundara: More, ninety-two.
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect many disciples, but still, there are two thousand. Because I have got so many conditions and the fact is so difficult to understand, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, they have forgotten God, and I am trying to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is a very difficult job. I have to shed my blood three tons before I make one convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my experience. I have to talk with him, especially these Europeans and Americans. They do not accept anything so blindly. They try to... I am always being questioned, even in my tooth(?) Question, question, question. That's nice. Inquisitive, they want to know. So I give them answers. I have got four secretaries always with me. They are giving answers. So to become Kṛṣṇa... Especially in Europe and America, when I make this condition that you cannot have illicit sex, you cannot have intoxication, you cannot meat eat, er, you cannot eat meat, you cannot have gambling... This is their daily affair. This is their life. Even Lord Zetland refused, "Oh, we cannot give up these things." So I am controlling them in this way. Still, they are coming. So it is very difficult job. Still, there are many thousands, and they are so sincere that if I ask them that... This boy is going to Red China. I am sending him. You see? So I have asked them, "You go there. You go there." They go even at the risk of life. Yes. It is the duty of the Indians to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but they are preaching very nicely. I am training these foreigners. They are doing this duty. It is the duty of the Indians. It is their culture. But they are satisfied only... If one young man gets a nice wife and a little bit of money, oh, he says, "My life is successful." Therefore I went away. I approached many gentlemen. "Please, you have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall make him a real brāhmaṇa." "Swamiji, (Hindi)." He does not know the value. Therefore I left India, hopeless. And Kṛṣṇa has given me chance, very good chance. Now they are appreciating. When I go to India they become surprised, "Swamiji, how you have done this thing?" This is the reason.
Prabhupāda: You cannot create male aeroplane and female aeroplane so that you haven't got to manufacture a third one. The third one is produced. Why third one? Millions. And then from millions, another millions, another million. That is God's creation. That means He has got different energies. He pushes on one button of one energy and the production goes on. (Sanskrit) These are the Vedic explanation. His energies are so subtle. Just like nowadays electronic television button, you press, and thousands and thousands of miles away something is happening, you see. So if it is materially possible, it is nothing but exhibition of the energy of the human brain. So if human brain can exhibit such wonderful activities, how much God can do? He has got better brain, that's all, or the best brain. If you have got brain, that's all right, but He has got the best brain, param. Therefore He is called parampuruṣa, parameśvara. Parama means the best, the supreme. God is like you, like me. He has got also two hands, two legs, Kṛṣṇa. But His brain is different. Just like you are scientist; your brain is better than me, or his brain is better than you, and his brain is better than him. In this way you go on searching. When you find the brain which is no more better, that is God. That is God. As you are finding out better brain than you, he is better than his, he better than this—you go on researching—when you find out some brain which surpasses everyone and nobody surpasses Him, that is God. This is our definition of God. How can I deny it? We don't accept blindly anyone as God, incarnation of God. We want to see who has got the best brain, who has got the best opulence, who has got the best beauty, who has got the best knowledge, who has got the best friend. All combined together, if we find in some person, that is God. That we have found in Kṛṣṇa; therefore He is God.
Prabhupāda: This is the same argument, ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). You cut the mouth of the chicken because it eats, it is expensive, and keep the back side because it lays down egg. You see? Intelligent man said, I am getting every day one egg. So that side, the back side, is very good. But this side is expensive, eats. Cut it. So he does not know, he is such a foolish, that if I cut the head, then the egg-giving business will also stop. Similarly, if you accept this philosophy, then you must accept this also.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, that is difference...
Prabhupāda: If you don't accept this kīrtana, then it will prove that you don't accept the philosophy.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's the difference between Your Divine Grace and all these other bhogis. They make it according to the taste of the people. They change. That's why this movement is so solid: no compromise.
Prabhupāda: No. Why compromise? My Guru Mahārāja never made any compromise.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Compromise means you have some material attachment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, compromise means you don't want real business but you want some money by cheating and by bluffing. That's all. That is compromise. If I aim... Just like this Mahesh Yogi is doing: Yes, God has given you senses, why should you not enjoy? You simply enjoy. You simply give me thirty-five dollars, I'll give you a special mantra. And here, Allen Ginsberg told me, Swamiji, you are very conservative. I said that I am the most lenient. I'm not conservative. You are conservative. You cannot give up your bad habits. I am very liberal and accepting everyone. But you are... Because you are conservative, you cannot give up your bad habits; therefore you deny to come to my camp. I am very liberal.
Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇas means by quality. He must have the brahminical quality, then he's brāhmaṇa.
Guest (2): So under these principles then, there are no brāhmaṇas in India, really, then.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the... Not only...
Guest (2): Not all the brāhmaṇas who are supposed to be brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We... Our... This philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata, we don't accept brāhmaṇa by birth. We accept brāhmaṇa by quality. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Quality and work.
Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a śūdra?
Prabhupāda: Śūdra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is śūdra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a śūdra. A brāhmaṇa never serves anyone, a kṣatriya never serves anyone, a vaiśya never serves anyone. A śūdra... Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is śūdra.
Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."
Guest (2): So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the...
Prabhupāda: Hm. Comparative religion, from our point of view, that there cannot be many religions, cannot be many religions. Religion means... We define religion as the law given by God. So we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that God says, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me." So any religion that has no conception of God, how he can think of God? If I think of something, that something must be known to me; otherwise how can I think of it? If I imagine something, that is not wanted. My imagination of God... God is not a thing to be imagined by me. He is a concrete thing. Therefore according to our philosophy, any so-called religion which has no conception of God, that is not religion. That is simply mental speculation. We accept that religion means the law given by God. But if you do not know what is God, what is His law, then where is religion? Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that all types of pseudo religion is rejected. You can ask any religious man, "What is your conception of God?" he cannot give any clear conception. So far we are concerned, we can immediately give conception of God—His name, His address, everything. That is the difference. Strictly speaking, we do not accept any system of religion as bona fide. They are all rejected. That is not religion. They do not know what is God. What is that religion? Strictly speaking, that is not religion. But if we speak publicly, they will be angry. So this comparative study of religion, we don't believe in it, because there is no religion. Where is the scope of comparative study?
Prabhupāda: Just like we are... I have come to this country. My purpose is not to get some money from them. Because I think, "My Guru Mahārāja ordered that 'You go to the Western countries,' " so I have come to the Western countries to give them Kṛṣṇa. And because they, everyone has Kṛṣṇa prema, they are accepting it. You must be favorable. But if you don't accept, it is impossible to give you. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You do." Kṛṣṇa can force him but He is not forcing. Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, "Whatever..." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "Whatever you like, you can do." He does not force anyone because the living entity, part and parcel of God, he has got independence. So Kṛṣṇa does not touch the independence of the living entity. He advises, "You do this. If you do this, then you will be saved." But if you do not do this, then Kṛṣṇa is not responsible. You are responsible. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So if you do that—you take Kṛṣṇa's advice—then you are saved. But if you do not that, then you take your own responsibility. You travel in this cycle of birth and death and wander in different species of life, different planets. So that is your responsibility. Kṛṣṇa comes down to instruct you this philosophy, this fact. Now it is up to you to accept or not to ac... You have got the independence. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... (BG 4.9). Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ (BG 8.15). That is the highest perfection; you go back to Kṛṣṇa. If you don't go, that is your choice.
Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people completely lack the real knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they give all these books. When we started school, we are taught with these..., or we are supplied with this information right from the beginning, the history of mankind and then how this started.
| Page Title: | Do not accept (Conversations 1968 - 1972) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 06 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=32, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 32 |